853 How To Find Your Creative Calling with Chase Jarvis

Often, we doubt ourselves and our creative ideas. We think that creative people were born with special abilities. And often, we doubt our creative talents. But, is that what we truly believe? If so, why are those creative ideas still in our heads? Ready to come out. Here’s the truth- they were given to you because you were born to create it. Creativity isn’t a birthright or destination, it’s a process. If you follow the I. D. E. A strategy and keep working, good things will happen. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about how everyone has a creative force inside of them and what it takes to develop that creativity with an author, entrepreneur and photographer: Chase Jarvis. Chase Jarvis is an American artist, director, entrepreneur and author who co-founded the on-line educational platform Creative Live. Chase consistently uses his voice to educate and inspire people to achieve their creative potential. As a child, Chase Jarvis loved being creative and started making his own films, but after overhearing his teacher tell his parents “Chase is so much better at sports than arts”, he lost his creative passion and replaced it with a need to achieve athletically. In the following years he became a standout athlete in multiple sports, but his grandfather’s death reignited his creative spirit and since that time he has lived a creative life putting his creative spirit into everything he does. Now, his mission is to help people tap into their creative potential. So, get ready to learn how to unleash your creativity on Episode 853. Some Questions I Ask: Why do we shut down creativity? (13:20) How much happier are creative people? (19:44) How can you make creativity your daily practice? (33:40) Why is it important for artists to build powerful relationships? (38:09) Why did you decide to write the book now? (47:18) In This Episode You Will Learn: Why you should dream big (16:20) Why Mindset Matters (21:50) How to move with intent (34:00) Why building relationships is important (38:09) The I. D. E. A creative process (38:25) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes, and more at http://www.lewishoes.com/853 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 853 with Chase Jarvis.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  Pablo Picasso said, "Every child is an artist. The problem is staying an artist when you grow up." Welcome to today's interview. I've got my man Chase Jarvis, who I've known for about a decade, who's coming on to talk to us about creativity, how to find your creative calling, how to cultivate creativity in your life already. If you don't think you're an artist, or you don't think you're creative, how to tap into that, and so much more. And if you don't know who Chase is, he's a photographer, a director, an artist, entrepreneur, and the co-founder and CEO of CreativeLive, which is an online education platform that empowers creators with powerful new skills and inspirational mentorship.

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  I've done a few courses on CreativeLive myself over the years. They do an incredible job. And anyone interested in learning has access to visionaries, leaders, and professionals within the area of expertise they want to learn. Today, CreativeLive boosts 1,500-plus curated classes, 650-plus world-class instructors, and more than 10 million students. Powerful platform. CreativeLive has been featured in Business Insider, Entrepreneur, Mixergy, to name a few. And Chase has got a new book out right now. It's super inspiring. It's called Creative Calling,

• 1:53Lewis Howes?

  and it's about establishing a creative practice to infuse meaning, vitality, and success into your work and life. And in this interview, we talk about how creativity is all around us. It exists in everyone, and it's essential for work and life. We talk about the toxicity of the starving artist myth, and how to empower yourself as an artist to make money. The power of reframing creativity as a practical habitual practice in everyday life, how to manage a creative craft when it isn't going anywhere and how to know when to quit your creative craft, how to build powerful relationships as part of your art

• 2:34Lewis Howes?

  as my belief is that's the secret to generating wealth as an artist and so much more. I am pumped about this one. Get ready. Make sure to share with a friend who you know needs more creativity in their life or text it to a friend who's a creative artist right now. The link is lewishoes.com/853 or you can just take the link on Apple Podcast or wherever you're listening to this on Spotify or any podcast platform and text it to one friend, text it in a WhatsApp group message and post it on your Instagram story and tag me Lewis Howes and Chase Jarvis so we can know what you're listening to and if you're enjoying while you're listening to this. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  with the one and only Chase Jarvis.

• 3:24Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got my man Chase Jarvis in the house. Good to see you, brother.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Super good.

• 3:30Lewis Howes?

  Super pumped that you're here. I feel like I've known you, I've known you for almost a decade, maybe.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  This is true.

• 3:35Lewis Howes?

  2009, 2010, somewhere around there, right?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  We'll call it.

• 3:37Lewis Howes?

  Where did we meet originally?

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Swim team, 8th grade.

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  I was in the swim team in like 5th grade.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 3:44Lewis Howes?

  Was it at, I think it was at actually Tim Ferriss's event. Might have been the first time I met you.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Open Kamono.

• 3:50Lewis Howes?

  His book launch, like.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  School of Book Launch?

• 3:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, his kind of secret strategies on how to be a bestseller and write a great book and stuff like that.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Something about Kamono.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, open the Kamono.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, something like that.

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  When was that?

• 4:02Speaker 01

  I don't know, a long time ago.

• 4:03Lewis Howes?

  2009 or 10?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  It had to be.

• 4:05Lewis Howes?

  Maybe 2010.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Maybe sooner.

• 4:07Lewis Howes?

  Maybe.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 4:08Lewis Howes?

  Later.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Later, yeah.

• 4:09Lewis Howes?

  Something around nine, 10 years probably been friends. We've connected in a lot of different places. I feel like I see you all over the world, you know?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 4:16Lewis Howes?

  We're kind of like conference junkies for years, right? Cause they're always like networking at events or you're speaking or something.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  And we've done a great job of bringing one another along to those things like, hey, I did a cool thing.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  It was fun to be on stage at the Summit of Greatness.

• 4:31Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  I could drag you to the Obama White House.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes. Was that you dragged me there?

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that was fun.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:37Lewis Howes?

  We had dinner with Cory Booker afterwards, was that right?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, so we, I don't know.

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  South by Southwest, we did like video shoot in a car that you were doing something.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  That's right, with Uber. CreativeLive partnered with Uber.

• 4:46Lewis Howes?

  That's right.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Interviewed.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  That was fun.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  It was amazing. That was live, like rolling around live, live feed in the back.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  That was crazy.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  For three days.

• 4:54Lewis Howes?

  You've had an amazing career. Weren't you a professional, semi-professional soccer player?

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I did. I did play for the, uh, the feeder team for some of the, what became the MLS, the Sounders. And I was on the Olympic development team in the years where there weren't Olympics. Which, that's a bummer. That's a bummer, right?

• 5:13Lewis Howes?

  That sucks.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Bad timing. But I think we've also connected a lot around sports. Sports played a huge role in my, my journey. And I credit it with a lot of things like discipline and understanding hard work. And it's been a huge part of my life. And if I don't move every day, I guess I start feeling weird, even, even now.

• 5:31Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you can be creative without being, uh, mobile? Like, if you're just sitting around in stillness all day?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  It's very hard. I need, I need both extremes. I need like real quiet and I need real active. And active, not just in the sports and like physicality sense, but also like travel, adventure. I think about them in two different modes. One is like closed and focused and, and creating. And then the other is like gathering raw information out in life, adventure, connection. And yeah, I can oscillate back and forth.

• 6:02Lewis Howes?

  It's hard, it's hard to be creative without experiencing life.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  For sure. That's like, uh,

• 6:06Lewis Howes?

  Isn't it true?

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a fundamental piece of, you know, we are social animals and humans, if, it's, it's fact that if a human baby is born and it's not held or coddled, it will die. So we're social animals and connection is not a nice to have, it's required. And you know, we'll talk about my new book in a second. That's one of the things I'm putting creativity in that same category as human connection, as nutrition, as movement. It's absolutely fundamental to who we are. We're of creating species. That's what differentiates us from every other species on the planet. So, um, yeah, it's, it's not an accident that you're talking about these things like quiet and connection and nutrition and exercise. They're fundamental. And for me, creativity is the same thing.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  When you were playing soccer growing up, was that kind of your main passion and like your full focus and your dream was to be a, you know, a soccer player?

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, no question. I'm going to go back one click further. And as a super young kid, I loved performing.

• 7:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  I was like, I did magic shows for my neighborhood. I made a film called The Sons of Zorro when I was like six. Made the film on a super eight, shot it, acted in it, uh, directed it, sold tickets and made a profit on a film and a six, I think it was a six minute film as a, as a young kid. And I remember just being, oh my God, is there a way that I could just do this? Cause this is the most fun thing ever. You know, we washed cars to make money to buy the film. And, and then I remember my second grade teacher saying, going to like the traditional school system. My second grade teacher, I remember her over, I remember overhearing her tell my mom. Chase is just lovely and he's so much better at sports than he is at art.

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  You know, in second grade. And so you just.

• 7:54Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that funny what we remember?

• 7:55Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 7:55Lewis Howes?

  You still remember that?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:57Lewis Howes?

  Thirty something years later.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  I can tell you exactly where I was standing.

• 7:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  And, and it was weird because I liked being creative and what that did to me right away was, oh, creative was sort of like, was like, I was bad at it or it wasn't cool. Or in any case, I had to like run away from it. And those were different times, of course, but. I think there's the cultural paradigm which which it unnecessarily steers us. And largely, we have a paradigm in our culture of steering us away from creativity and expression. And I think that's changing now, but that's part of why I wrote the books. Cause we're creative by nature and we're fundamentally, that is, it's, it's, it's a birthright. It's a piece of who we are.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  So I ran away from that and I then, of course, was wildly passionate about, I was, I consider myself an artist trapped in a jock's body. So yeah, it was, I basically played every sport you could possibly play, every season of every. Yeah, nonstop. Nonstop. I was active football, basketball, baseball, soccer, skiing, skateboarding, everything. And it was, it became an identity. And what I realized, looking back, was I virtually traded that identity for a creator. And it was skateboard culture, actually, that helped me understand that you could, you could be both. It was skate culture, you know, it was like spray paint and punk rock music. And of course, it was a really, you know, athletic endeavor.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  And, and this was as a young, you know, young teenager, 12. Were you skateboarding? Yeah. Oh, wow. Skateboard, BMX, all that stuff too. And I was like, wait, this is that thing that I had denied. I mean, even as I was like 13 year old, I remember going, wait a minute. This is the thing that I was denying as my young, as a young person, this like creative part. And yet it feels at home here in skateboarding. Because again, it was like literally spray, you know, you're building vert ramps and you're spray painting your favorite, you know, skate logos and you're listening to punk rock music or skate rock. And, and it was also obviously super physical. And so I started understanding how those things fit together. But to go back to your original point, yeah, I, I really relied on sports.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  And it was because it was super culturally accepted. As a, as young people, we just really want to fit in, right? And I, oh, what's, what's gonna make it so? Nobody looks at me or the right people look at me and I just wanna like, okay, cool. Go over here and stand out or fit in or just not be quote weird.

• 10:29Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  And then it was easy for me for sports.

• 10:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Did you continue in high school doing creative stuff as well? Were you more focused on sports?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Way more, way more sporty.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  So you weren't making the Zorro part two, Sons of Zorro two?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  No, I have the film too. It's crazy. I do have it. Yeah.

• 10:45Lewis Howes?

  You should put it out online.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's gonna be a part of my, uh, the, the talk that I give around this book.

• 10:51Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. That'll be exciting.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty fun. And so, yeah, very much oriented towards sports.

• 10:57Lewis Howes?

  Um, when did, and when did you get back into creativity then? If sports was your thing in high school, college?

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went to college on a soccer scholarship at a D1 school and I mentioned the Olympic development stuff. And it was late in college where I started being really curious about photography. My father was a hobbyist. My grandfather was a hobbyist and these, by hobbyist, I mean, they bought all the new gadgets and all that stuff.

• 11:19Lewis Howes?

  Garage and just tinkered at.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally tinkered and had new lenses and all this stuff. And they would take photographs of me and my friends. And I remember looking at the photographs and not, not necessarily like, oh, hey, there's me. I'm awesome. But like, whoa, this is a moment in time.

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  And I could show this to anyone and it would, they would understand that there's this, there's a, a peak, moment of peak action or sorrow or emotion or whatever, usually around sports. And that always intrigued me. And then because our college soccer team was one of the top teams in the nation and there was always, you know, we're on TV for every game and there was always cameras and I started giving the interviews for, you know, after the game that like, oh, I can put some sentences together. And, and, and it just, it helped me understand that there was a narrative arc and that there was, storytelling was important. And, and I gravitated towards it, but I never did anything with it until a week before my college graduation.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  My grandfather, who someone I, I looked up to and, and was the hobbyist, he dropped dead of a heart attack.

• 12:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  I mean, no warning signs, no nothing, just boom, gone. And it's horrible, obviously. The silver lining was that I was gifted his cameras.

• 12:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  And it was, you know, I think if you just replay that little history there, like, young, creative kid, if you walk into any sixth grade classroom or second grade, who wants to come up and draw me a picture? Every single hand goes up. But then we have this culture that sort of trains it out of us. And by creativity, I don't just mean like art, right? Creativity is building a business wildly creative, that whole, the concept of the film that I talked about. So, you know, and then culture trains it out of us because you ask the same, you know, ask some high school seniors, who wants to come to the front of the room? And there's, you know, jaded and all of those things about creative. And sure, there's some people that will do it, but it's just, we have a culture that has historically trained that out of us. And then what happened when my grandpa died was it just like cracked me open.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  And the concept of my heart being open, the cameras being there, my curiosity that had been building. And I decided to, I'd saved up all my money. I got a little bit of money from his, from his passing and decided to run off to Europe. And I got some super, super cheap, like 42 stop discount tickets to get to wherever I could in Europe. And, and I basically spent six months walking through Europe, trains, planes, automobiles, all that stuff, with my then girlfriend, now wife, Kate, and taught myself how to take pictures. And that was, you know, the silver lining of my grandfather's passing and that cracking open.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  And realized again, that, that in a really sort of innocent but pure way, that this is fundamental. It just felt good to, to connect with my surroundings and to pursue something, to focus on something. And it activated a piece inside of me that I'd clearly been, had shut down.

• 14:21Lewis Howes?

  Why do we start to shut down creativity? Is it because in school, we need to learn how to make money or get a job? Or, and art or creativity is not a practical way to make money? Or is that?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Well, that's the irony of this all. And that's, you know, one of the reasons I wrote the book is we have. Uh, two things. We have an educational system and then an uh, an occupational system. The educational system, it's really hard to educate around creativity and it's much easier to pursue something that looks like a factory, which is you put kids at one end and you try and keep everybody in the same, you know, learning the same stuff at the same time. If you are slow developmentally, they do everything they can to unnaturally drag you through it. We've talked about this before, about your experience in struggling to read and also being drug through it all. And that doesn't work.

• 15:12Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  And the reality is that kids develop at different ages and different styles and we have different strengths. And just, there's not a lot of room for creativity because we were taught to sit down and shut up. And so after 12 years of that, 12 or 15,000 hours later, what have you learned? You've really learned to fit in, to be a cog in a machine. And this is like, again, my wife was a teacher for a long time. I founded and own an online learning company. Like I, I value learning deeply, but just the necessity of sort of modern culture created this factory system. And it, it doesn't actually encourage the kinds of things that we need to be encouraging. And so to me, that's a systemic challenge.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  And then with the employment universe, right? There's a creativity used to be a nice to have. Oh yeah, it's like, it's exciting, but you know, it's about management and it's about supply chains and, but think of today, the most successful people we imagine are wildly creative, you know, whether that's in business or art or film or any discipline. The like, Apple, the most valuable company in the world, once thought it was totally crazy. Why would they make the circuit board beautiful even though you were never going to see it? Those little details, they matter. And if you look at pop culture today, we see the the rise of creativity. It's it's having its day in the sun.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  And that's part of the reason I think the book is well timed. It has been true all along. But now it's democratized. We have access to tools that we used to not be able to afford. There used to, there are no gatekeepers. You couldn't have this show 20 years ago because there's no way to distribute it.

• 16:53Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  And now that you can go direct and connect to people who love you in the work that you do because of these tools that creativity has ultimately created for us. If you look around, like, everything in your world, everything was made, was created. It was drawn first. It was thought up in the mind of someone else. And it came to life largely as a result of someone who's probably no smarter than you are, no more talented. Again, I go back to creativity. It's this, this is this innate thing that we are all born with. That is what defines us as a species. We can put two unlikely things together to form something new and useful. And to me, now, we we can look back at the school system and look, look at our, the

• 17:37Speaker 01

  future of employment and you realize that, you know, creativity is no longer, it's a nice to have, that it is absolutely as essential as as exercise, as nutrition and connection.

• 17:47Lewis Howes?

  It's so true. And I really believe that the ones that dream the biggest are the ones that are changing the world. You know, if you have a small dream and you're not able to imagine something greater for yourself, then you're probably not going to create that greater thing. So what happens to someone when they start to become more creative in general? Whether it be for their work or their relationships or their life? What happens to their life when they break down the chains of creativity and start to express whatever their creative expression is?

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Now, it's a, it's a beautiful question. And the book is sort of founded on a couple of principles. One, it's just, it's not a radical idea when you, when you just listen to it, that every human is creative, right? And again, you go back to the first grade classroom. The next sort of what follows from that is that creativity is a habit. It's not a skill. It's something we're born with and it's something, it's a practice, not a product. And it's like a muscle. And as an athlete, you and I both know that what gets used, you build, right? You, if you need to do bench and you just spend a lot of time under the bar, you're going to get stronger. The same is true with creativity. Now, if, if, if that logically follows, the third one is that

• 18:59Speaker 01

  The same things that we do to create small things in our life, whether it's your first business, washing cars, it's taking photographs every day.

• 19:11Lewis Howes?

  Creative writing.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, creative writing, a morning journal, anything. The muscle that you're using in that moment, that creativity muscle that is innate in everyone, you use it or lose it, that is the same exact muscle that we use to create our lives.

• 19:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  So it's literally, when you go back to your question, you ask someone like, what does creativity help you? Creativity is literally the key to creating the arc of your life. All you're doing right now is creativity at a larger scale.

• 19:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  You go back to where you were on your sister's couch, injured, no longer a football player, and struggling with depression. And you created, the lives that you see that you admire, they were created.

• 19:55Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  You don't find secrets. You create them. You don't, you don't, I think it's funny, they call them founders. Like, we build companies. I didn't find anything.

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  You created it.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  I created it.

• 20:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  And so, to me, that the essence of your question is is a kernel in the book that I think is emerging right now in popular culture, that the things that we do, that those acts every day, that kid, that eight-year-old kid that made the Zorro film, and seeing that product of my work helped shape my understanding that I could actually create the life arc that I wanted for myself. It's just creativity at a different scale.

• 20:37Lewis Howes?

  How much happier or less happy are creative people that are practicing on a daily basis their creativity?

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've got this myth in our...

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  Like, the miserable artist, right?

• 20:48Speaker 01

  The reality is, you do the science and that's just a myth. Right? So there's two really toxic myths that we talk about in the book. One is the starving artist. Richard Branson, Lewis Howes, Debbie Millman, Brene Brown, Jared Leto, I'm just like, random, like, they're some of the most creative people I know. We all have our shadow selves, but I think the power and understanding that you are in charge and you can create the life arc that you wish is, to me, that's empowering. The starving artist is a myth that came out of the Paris scene around a cafe called Dumago, where Simone de Beauvoir and Jean-Paul Sartre and these folks, like, it was a benefit

• 21:32Speaker 01

  to talk about how you would, I would never trade my art for money. Right. And usually that meant- Priceless. But they couldn't actually sell their art. And ultimately, the other myth is that, you know, we're tortured. Only great art or creativity comes from pain. Yeah. Right? And I think that's another thing that keeps a lot of people from thinking of themselves as a creator, like, I don't know, I have a 95 job, I like my job, I come home, I've got a couple of kids, I kiss my partner, we have a nice meal, or whatever, like, I'm trying to paint something that is a little more stereotypical, specifically because, like, wait a minute, I'm not, you know, strung out on heroin and- Homeless. Doing damage to myself. Living in someone's attic.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Right, right. And that's not required for creativity, there's no berets, there's no, you know, you don't have to speak French, you don't have to go on some mission to find yourself, what you really got to do is you got to just acknowledge that you're a creator, like, words matter, right? Words, and you do a lot of mental and visualization, what you tell yourself, how you think, that matters, mindset matters, and the same is true with a creator, if you acknowledge that you're a creator, you're already 50% ahead of someone who doesn't feel like they are in charge and can control their own life. And again, the parallel between taking a photo every day, making a meal, being intentional about what, and you don't have to, like, again, you don't have to go take a class, you can start tomorrow, just thinking about, wow, this meal, it's an opportunity to do something

• 23:02Speaker 01

  different, to create. My morning pages, like, maybe I'm going to draw a picture today, I'm just going to deviate a little bit, the pictures that I take at lunchtime when I walk around my iPhone, that's soothing, and that's a muscle that I'm building that will ultimately add value to my life. So, you know, I think it's, it's a pretty simple paradigm and that's part of what people, I think, miss and then what our culture has missed, which is one of the reasons I'm, I'm put it all in a book. And I think we're early on in the movement. You can feel, you can feel it, right? The fact that you can be a YouTuber, like that that's a thing. Most of the jobs in the creative economy are not just movie stars and television directors and they all are wildly creative. Writing code wildly creative. You know, so again, it's not just

• 23:47Speaker 01

  art. It's anytime you're putting these new things together. And if you start to, to clock creativity in that way, you start to, your mind is open to like, wait a minute. This is, it's not whimsical. It's not naive to pursue the things that you love and to pursue creativity. It is the most practical thing on the planet.

• 24:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Because it teaches you to build not just things in a small way, but whatever you want to do with your life.

• 24:11Lewis Howes?

  What would you say, I mean, rough estimate, maybe there's research out there, but people who are working on a job and kind of have that stereotypical life of partner, kid, couple of kids, dog, whatever, they've got that lifestyle. How creative are those individuals on a daily basis? On a scale of like one to 10, are they at a two or a five or?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:35Lewis Howes?

  What, what do they?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  I put them pretty low and I put them pretty low. I put their capacity at a 10. Everyone's capacity is a 10. I put what culture does to us and puts us at a two. And I, it's really important for me to put a pin in this and say, I'm talking about this like I had it figured out from day one. But the reality is, when I was hardworking and young and none of my parents, you know, graduated college. I was the first one to, to, to go. And if you're finding success in that system, I was actually programmed like, oh, oh, you're smart and hardworking. You should be a doctor or a lawyer or a, you know, I was given like five things. And my parents are cool, super cool. But culturally, like that is,

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  Pressure.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  That is pressure. And to, to be crystal clear, I'm white. I'm male. I was born in America. I, I did come from a lower income family, lower middle-class family. But I basically had every advantage and acknowledging that, that I wanted to pursue something other than the stereotypical norm.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Was the hardest thing I'd ever done because I felt like I was abandoning, it was really confusing time. I was abandoning my parents, abandoning culture. What are my friends gonna say? What are my friends' parents gonna say? What is the person on the street gonna say? And at the same time, I knew that I was passionate about something different. We all have this whisper inside of us. That's the calling that I talk about. And the feelings of not only betraying everybody else by not loving being the list of things that you should do, but the flip side of the same coin, the betrayal of yourself. When you're not doing the thing that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah. I think is a, is a. It's the worst regret. It is, it's regret and it is a equation for pain. Hmm.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  It is for suffering, for denial of yourself. Hmm. And, you know, again, the book, we talk, I talk, we, very crisply, very, very crisply about hearing that call. It's inside every one of us. And even if that call is just a whisper, you'll have the ability to tap into that even, and you've all done it before. Everyone who's listening right now or watching or whatever, you felt it. You felt that time where everything was like, it was a flow state or whatever. You're doing the things that you loved with the people that made you excited, with the focused on something that brought you joy. That can be every day and it's not a myth, a fiction that you can't. And to go back to your question again, like, so everyone's a 10 on the scale of. Capacity, right?

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Creative, creative capacity. But our culture, it's, it's not beneficial, especially in the most recent chapter of our culture around the factory and the farm. And that you, to, you express that because what's, you know, again, get in line, sit down, shut up, do your job. And what are we missing as a culture? And I'm not saying everyone should go be a painter. Like, that's not at all what I mean. But if you can listen to that thing, exercise in small daily ways, this habit, build this muscle in the same way that you're taught to eat well and exercise as a core piece of what we're talking about. Then you will unlock powers that you know not like it will rock you and it starts out small sometimes it doesn't sometimes like you do this and you're like oh my gosh

• 27:55Speaker 01

  I can do this on the side just think of like something like 50% by 2020 50% of US employed people will have a side hustle.

• 28:04Lewis Howes?

  50%.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  50 by 2020.

• 28:06Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  I started I started this this statistic back in 2017 50% of the working American population and this is not the whole population not 300 million it's up the working population which is like 150 million or something 50% of them will make some money on the side by 2020.

• 28:21Lewis Howes?

  Could be 20 bucks on the side it could be.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Sure you could have a yeah you could yeah you could you know design wedding cards wedding wedding invitations for your friend.

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  And that's not going away that's only increasing and what that is is that is this we're breaking free of these old patterns we're starting to acknowledge this really really important piece in every one of us and we are learning we're we're developing tools to break out of the system that is the same reason that you have your own podcast that you couldn't have had that 15 years ago and that system is coming along I'm just asking everyone to grab hold of it and make something make it's not too late whatever wherever you are in this paradigm it's not too late to start something tomorrow and again it doesn't mean quit your day job move to Paris wear a beret smoke a cigarette this is not a requirement.

• 29:14Lewis Howes?

  Go on a a drug journey or something you'd like.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Yeah it's none of these things are requirements what is and what I what I really is important is acknowledge those three things right that you're a creator there's creativity inside of every person that if you use it it's like a muscle it will get stronger and when you use it more often that what you're really developing is your capacity to grow change develop and shape your life in a way that is that provides the meaning that you seek.

• 29:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah here's a question.

• 29:44Lewis Howes?

  The whisper, the calling that you talked about that's inside of all of us, I hear that all the time. And I usually go after those things. And some of the times I'm like, this doesn't make sense for my business or my brand. It's probably against, you know, making me money.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 30:00Lewis Howes?

  So how do we manage the calling when maybe it won't make us any money? Or won't really make an impact in a bunch of people's lives, or no one else is going to care about it, but we care about it.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 30:13Lewis Howes?

  And it's time consuming. There's unknowns and uncertainties to when we put it out there. Are people going to accept it? Are we going to make any side money? Or is it just going to take up a lot of our time? Is it still worth pursuing that creativity? If no one else cares?

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yes, pursuing creativity has its all of its own merits built in. Because even if you're not doing the thing that lights you up or makes you money or whatever, this simple act of pursuing your own innate creativity will be the best guide that you have in the world to get you there. The combination of your intuition plus your ability to put two things together is the best. Notice, it's a compass. It's not a map.

• 30:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  There is no map. There is no thing that says, I start here. And anytime you think you can see the whole path in front of you, you're wrong. What you, all you really need to do is to see a couple of steps. Because ask anybody if they visualize the whole, and I'm big into visualization and meditation, usually what will manifest is the end result, but you'll get it a different way. That's what I mean by you just need to be going in the right direction. And that's why your creativity plus your, you know, understanding what you love, you put those two things together and it's the best compass known to humanity.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I like that. So when should we give up on our creativity?

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Hmm. We should never give up on our creativity.

• 31:36Lewis Howes?

  Let's say a certain project. I'm a painter. I love to paint. No one cares.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, again.

• 31:41Lewis Howes?

  I'm a horrible painter.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Totally. And you're chronicling my, my life. I don't, like, I've, I've quit so many things. I dropped out of a, you know, medical school. I thought that was really powerful. I, I think I'm.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  As a creative craft goes, I'm most well-known for photography and building businesses. And I started out painting, painting with oil painting. And it was so slow, I was just, it was driving me crazy. Crazy. Crazy. And I'm like, what can happen now? Faster, faster. So I actually moved to acrylics. And then acrylics were, even though they dried in a, you know, a single sitting, I was just like, photography was ultimately like. Instant gratification. Yeah, it's like a thousandth of a second, you're like, got the shot. So it's not about, only about discovering your, your one creative craft. Because we all, again, this is the thing, when you start to understand the power of creativity, you start to see it everywhere. Whether you're cooking a meal, writing code, even, you know,

• 32:41Speaker 01

  leading a meeting at work, that can be a creative, a creative act. And knowing when to quit is if, my friend Chris Gilbo, you know Chris? He's got a really effective way, and I think I cite this in the book, he's got a really effective way of like, is it working? And do you love it? And if it's, if you love it and it's not working, keep doing it because you love it. And what's the end result? Like, start reshaping what your goals are, because you love it. If you don't love it, and it's working, you're like, hmm, then you have a decision to make, right? This is, goes back to like, oh, is it for my brand? If it's not working and you don't love it. Why are you doing it?

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Why are you doing it? Really, it's just, it's a simple two by two. And I think it's brilliantly simple, but that is part of, I think, what can shed some light on, do I keep going? What you have to keep going on with is your creativity. That's, the subtitle of the book is Establish a Daily Practice, Infuse Your World with Meaning, and Succeed in Work and Life. And the practice part of it. Is again, you don't have to drag out your canvas and this is not.

• 33:56Lewis Howes?

  Oil painting.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. It's not. It's not what I'm talking about.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Sit with a nude individual every day practicing.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Right, but but just acknowledging that the things that you're doing, that even what you decided to do the first thing you woke up, that you were in charge of that.

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, well, I've got three kids, two dogs, 60 hours a week job, tons of bills. How am I going to create? And I got to work on my health. I got to make my family happy. I've got no time at night. How can I add creativity into my life in a daily practice? What are things I can?

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Sure. You know, you've had Tony on the show. We both know Mr. Robbins. He talks about net time, no extra time, not extra time. So this is not a thing that you have to like, again, go into the closet and drag your craft thing as I'm, I really want to debunk that idea. Sure, it's helpful if you want to do that. It can be relaxing and stuff, but what if you just thought about like were intentional with creating the meal for the family that night? And you did something special, even literally the intention of setting that intention when you start to prepare the meal that you there that you were designing this.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  That you position it in a way that the just the intention behind it, setting an intention is enough. And then morning pages, for example, can you get up?

• 35:18Lewis Howes?

  So a journal.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, a journal morning. Yeah, your journal, you know, get up at five, 15 minutes before you normally would. And have that time to write down some things that you're grateful for. When you're, when you do sing, like, I would say 90 something percent of the people who are listening or watching right this minute have taken a picture with their phone in the last.

• 35:41Lewis Howes?

  Week.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:42Lewis Howes?

  Day.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Day.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Okay. Rather than like, oh, I'm documenting that just like, wow, this is an opportunity to create a moment with my kids home run. Or with, you know, photographing this food beautifully or the sunset or whatever cliche we want to get to. Like if you can just pause and be aware that your creative agency is driving right, right at that moment.

• 36:03Lewis Howes?

  Don't just take a photo, but be intentional about how you want to do it.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, just even for a moment. That it's that and and it's you you do that you put that on repeat it starts to become a thing for you and it is like the world opens up.

• 36:18Lewis Howes?

  So it's not actually saying, you know, if you can take an hour a day and paint, great.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 36:22Lewis Howes?

  But if you don't have that specific time, how can you be creative throughout your entire day, while you go to work, when you're driving, when you're speaking to someone, when you're presenting, how can you reshape the way you present? Is that what I'm hearing you say?

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yes, it is, even if you're an accountant.

• 36:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, whatever you're doing.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Creative accounting, it sounds like an anomaly, like the IRS might love, might not love it, but as a coder, there's like, there's a beautiful way to write code.

• 36:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think it's, I think you can embed this in everything you do in your life. You can make it a game every day where it's like every conversation I have, I'm going to use a new word of the day.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Be playful.

• 36:56Lewis Howes?

  Be playful.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Sure, there's a lot of play, there's a lot of what connects you to the things that mattered as you were a kid.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  And and again, it used to be thought that this was naive for pursuing it or even whimsical. But just look around.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  The the most successful people that you know, they created business models that didn't exist. They method acted, they got so into their characters that they were able to transform themselves.

• 37:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  And the, you know, there's usually this connection, a kindness, a groundedness with the people that I am most attracted to, that I think inspire me the most. You know, they're wildly creative. And it's just basically, it's a new lens that we're able to see the world with because creativity is sort of, you know, it's finding its its day in the sun.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it is. Something you do that's really well is you're a master networker. And I think the successful creative artists that can monetize their art, some of them actually, I'm not saying this isn't you, but some of them actually aren't the best artists or creatives, but they're really good at building relationships and branding themselves.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:04Lewis Howes?

  How important is it, is it for artists who want to make their living full time as being creative to build powerful relationships as part of their art?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  The book, there's a framework for the book and the framework is called IDEA. And it's just four steps to a process. And this process works if you're trying to do, create a meal, or, you know, paint a painting, or build a business, or you're thinking of in terms of your life. And it's a repeatable creative process. I is for imagine. D is for design. E is for execute. And A is for amplify. So I'm gonna rip through these real quick because I really wanna hang on to amplify, which is the essence of your question. You've said it a couple of times already in this conversation. Like imagine, like, what do you want for yourself? You get up, what's your perfect day? That's, imagine, you're visualizing.

• 39:00Lewis Howes?

  Visualizing, yeah.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  What is possible? And if you're not doing that, you're really missing out on the best stuff in life, right? I think you're a huge advocate of that.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  You're getting the scraps of life that are just around as opposed to creating what you want.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Totally. You're a cork in the tide and life is happening to you rather than for you.

• 39:15Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  So imagine what's possible. Now, you have to design, there's no such, you don't actually get the thing that you imagine without designing a way to get there. If you don't know where you're going, you're never gonna get there.

• 39:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  So, like, designing a system, and this is through a set of daily habits. This is through a visualization of what you see for yourself. It's, how do I learn the skills or whatever's necessary to reach what I imagine? And then execute, right? You have to actually do the work. That's the part that people don't like. They wanna shortcut that. The reality is, if you are not, if you're short cutting, you're not gonna be, you know, how many people have said the 10,000 hours?

• 39:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Go be Brian, or anyone who's the best in the world at whatever it is that they do. Melissa Arnault, a friend of mine who's summited and successfully returned from Everest without oxygen, first US woman to do that. Like, these are executions. They're executing against a plan. And then the last one, which is germane to your point, and that is amplify. So many people do the first three. And if they're not sort of completing this cycle, they don't, they haven't built, there's a huge section in the book about this. It's basically about community. You can call it networking, you can call it whatever you want, but you're building community. You're, and, and something amazing happens when you build community. You know, I like to say be the fan that you wish you had. If you want more likes and,

• 40:41Speaker 01

  and followers on your Instagram, like, like and follow more people. If you want people to show up to your art show, if you want people to subscribe to your business, if you want like, then you need to participate in all these other things. Because that's how it's built on.

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  It's effort.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's effort. It's built on reciprocity. I talk about it also as the other 50%, this is the 50% of the things that no one, that everyone who's successful does.

• 41:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  And no one, anyone who's not successful in their own definition, doesn't understand that 50% of that person's time was built around building community. And it can be built in all kinds of different ways, digitally, physically, relationships with, you know, very, very close relationships.

• 41:19Lewis Howes?

  Online events, offline events, whatever it may be, meetups, groups.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's a, the, the community part is huge. And, and we go deep on this. It's like, oh, I'm an introvert. I'm an extrovert. How do I do this? So it's, it's gonna be okay. There's a path for everybody. And your community is not about having a million people. If you're a blacksmith in Jackson Hall, Wyoming, your community could be the 16 restaurateurs that come to you for their knives.

• 41:46Lewis Howes?

  That's it. You're building those relationships with those 16 people.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  For sure. So it doesn't need to be a million followers on Instagram. It, it is whatever it is, there's two types. One is a community that you can join and connect with that exists today. And the other is the one that you build around your own work. And I'm really intentional in the book about this because this is, to me, this is like the, if you go back to the beginning of our conversation and. How do you get, you know, it's like, great, we were creative and then we realized that there was all this shame around that and so we hid it. And, you know, now we're talking about being successful and building big businesses and like here's the black box and no one knows what happens in there. And to me, that's what, you know, I try and spell that out really clearly.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Trying to be both really theoretical and help people understand how important creativity is as a, as a human condition, as a human muscle. And there's a bunch of tactics in it, like building community, whether, like, I know how you built your community, we've talked about it a lot, it's very intentional. Didn't happen on accident, you just didn't walk, walk through life, you know, like.

• 42:51Lewis Howes?

  One person at a time, too, it's building, yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  And I want to bring people on my journey with me. And you know what? That's contagious. You see someone who's excited about what it is they're doing. What does it feel like?

• 43:02Lewis Howes?

  It's like you want to be a part of it.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  For sure. For sure, yeah. Or just connected to that person, like, that's great energy, that I love what he or she is doing. I love what they are building and I want to be a part of it. Like, those are things that are, again, go back to us being social animals.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  It's, what I'm saying sounds radical, but you look around at the, at the day to day and your empirical evidence, it's just, it's, you can't argue with it, it's so true.

• 43:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes, there's two things I wanted to add to this that you just talked about. My brother is a jazz violinist. It's very hard making a full-time living doing jazz violin, right? Even the jazz world in general, there's not many people that are making six figures in that world. And he always talks about, he creates education for other creative string players and jazz musicians and he builds networks and events and festivals and stuff. And he always says, you know, you're not going to get discovered, you're not just going to be able to master your craft and hope that someone's going to discover you in your garage, right? You've got to be putting yourself out there constantly.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:01Lewis Howes?

  And doing these two things that you said. One is creating the community that you're going to attract people into and then joining other communities.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 44:09Lewis Howes?

  You've got to do both.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  You have to. And there is not an example of success, certainly consistent success, that hasn't done those things.

• 44:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  You know, we're here in LA, right? How many actors move to LA?

• 44:25Speaker 01

  And they're great at their craft, but they don't know casting agents. Right. And they don't. It's all about the people you connect with. For sure. And to me, whether, whatever it is you're trying to build in life, this connection that you can make with other people is a huge part of it. Just take a mega super band. I write about Metallica. Any, just fill in your blank, even if it's a solo performer, the amount of people that have to come together to create the performance that you watch. Lots. Yeah, it's a lot of people. And, you know, I think that's part of just this myth that an artist has a beret, smokes a cigarette, goes into the woods and writes something magical and comes out. No. What happens is they go into the recording studio, they work their

• 45:07Speaker 01

  ass off, or they have three or four failed products, and then they make one thing and they show it to a small group of people, they get feedback, and it's a, it's a very slow process. It's team intensive, and whether your team is one or two or three or 10, it starts to think and feel like a community, right? And then, as that community grows over time, human by human, one at a time, or at scale on the internet, like, that's how success happens. That's, you know, the part of succeed, not just in work, but in life. I think that the community aspect can't be ignored. And go back to that idea system just for a second. If you're not doing the full system, like imagining, designing, executing against it, and then amplifying it through your community, if you're just doing, say

• 45:51Speaker 01

  you're imagining and you're designing a plan, but that's all you ever do, you're a dreamer. Yeah. You're a poser. And let's just say you just execute against the, the plans of others, and then you do the work to. You're a copier, right? Build their thing. You're a copier, or worse, you're just a cog in a machine that's not able to express yourself. So it's this whole system. And again, whether you're baking a cake, or you're trying to define your life, part of my, in distilling this, was like, wait a minute, every success I've ever had, every success of the hundreds of people that I've had on my podcast, you know, the Bransons, the Brené Browns, the Damon Johns, that, you know, that have largely been on your show too, there's this, they

• 46:32Speaker 01

  have done this thing. They may have had a different name for it, but it was a very, it's a very simple structure that is proven. If you just deconstruct the work of the best people in any discipline, there's some shape. To this, this system that I've laid out in the book.

• 46:49Lewis Howes?

  You've got a very successful business, CreativeLive, which is all about, you know, creativity for people and online learning and education. You've got your photography business. You've got your podcast, or I guess show.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 47:04Lewis Howes?

  Chase Jarvis Live. You've got a lot of different projects, seems like, happening at the same time. Why create a book right now? When you've got so much going on?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Well, two things. I think that we, we, we like to choose our projects, but sometimes our projects choose us.

• 47:19Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  And this book has been a factor in my psyche for years and years and.

• 47:28Lewis Howes?

  It's been a creative calling for years?

• 47:29Speaker 01

  It has. And I think it's important for the listeners to know that what, what good is a book that tells you how to do everything perfect? It's like, oh, if you're gonna build a business, always do this, never do this, always do this, never do this. And you're like, okay, I started at A and I go through it. No, this is like littered with my biggest failures, the failures of others, the biggest struggles, the, the muddy hills that we have to climb up to find who we are and, and do the things we want to do with our lives. So this particular book for me was, it, it's basically an aggregate of all these things. And I look at my own arc. I had to, I had to figure out that what I wanted to do with my life.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  I had to become and identify with a creator. I actually had business cards that printed up that said Chase Jarvis Photographer before I even had anything, before I even owned my own camera.

• 48:20Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Because I, you know, that's like, you identify.

• 48:24Lewis Howes?

  Your vision did.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. But as I, I became a creator and then I started doing things and building communities. And then I, I did an iPhone app that was basically a tool that was used by millions of people, preceded Instagram by a couple of years. App of the year in 2009. And then that's a tool. So I, I became a creator, then I started building tools for creators. And then I created a platform for tens of millions to people, tell tens of millions of people to learn and pursue their creative passions. And to me, what was missing in all this was the why. It's like, why do this? Why is this, what's, why is this valuable? Why would I care?

• 49:05Speaker 01

  And so to me, the book, it was an essential piece of this puzzle that I've been building of my life. And, you know, 10 years into CreativeLive, I was just like, wait a minute, like, what's the, what's the why? And I knew my why, but I felt like I hadn't drawn a circle, put a bow on the things that I'd been creating. And it's because it's the most powerful faculty that we have as humans, creativity and love, like those things come together. That is, that is, again, that's the human condition at its peak. And it is the, is the connection of those two things. So to me, the, the, the book had to come out in a very sort of meta way. That's what I was thinking. And then let's, let's get really tactical for a second. Like, I had

• 49:50Speaker 01

  to get this thing out of me. I was like, it's percolating, it's driving me crazy. I, I, I think about it. And I do love, I think this is another thing about creativity, that we're taught to just grind, just put our head down and grind is the answer. And in reality, some combination of pursuing a couple of different things at the same time. When you get stuck on one, you kind of leaned into another. That's a really effective way to get unstuck.

• 50:16Lewis Howes?

  That's true. Having something in the pipeline as well, something else, right?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  For sure. And it's not just, you know, always drop something and leave it forever and go on to the next thing. That's, that is probably, uh, you're running away from something.

• 50:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  It had a couple of different functions.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. Love it, man. Well, the book is out right now, by the time this comes out. It's called Creative Calling: Establish Your Daily Practice and Fuse Your World with Meaning and Success in Work and Life. Make sure you guys get this book. You've got some, um, places they can get it online. I think you might have some bonuses or something extra if they go to where?

• 50:48Speaker 01

  CreativeCalling.com.

• 50:49Lewis Howes?

  CreativeCalling.com. There's probably an experience that you'll put them through or some?

• 50:53Speaker 01

  For sure. There's a

• 50:53Lewis Howes?

  Add-ons and goodies and?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Couple of options there for sure. You can get it wherever books are sold. And we're gonna do a special thing for everybody who, um, buys it right away before, not quite sure when this is gonna drop, but we're gonna, there's a class at CreativeLive.

• 51:07Lewis Howes?

  Really? Are you leading a class?

• 51:08Speaker 01

  I am.

• 51:09Lewis Howes?

  When's the last time you led a class?

• 51:10Speaker 01

  I've only led one other class.

• 51:11Lewis Howes?

  Was it like the first one or something?

• 51:13Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't even the first one. It was like the 1000th. And it was a

• 51:16Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:16Speaker 01

  A collaboration with Apple.

• 51:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  We then took

• 51:19Lewis Howes?

  Photography?

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was an iPhone photography class.

• 51:21Lewis Howes?

  I remember this.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  That rolled into all 500 Apple stores worldwide.

• 51:24Lewis Howes?

  I was with you when you were like,

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Here you go.

• 51:26Lewis Howes?

  That was happening or something.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  And, um, and so this, uh, it It basically is a digital understanding, an accompaniment that is, there's a bunch of stuff in there that's not in this book, and that's at CreativeLive. So if you buy the book,

• 51:40Lewis Howes?

  you preorder it.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think, yeah, something like this. And even if you don't, I think, you know, there'll be some element of it. I think we're gonna actually do a, not a chapter by chapter, section by section, read-along, where we'll bring the community along to have some discussion around it. So, there you go. Yeah, appreciate.

• 52:01Lewis Howes?

  CreativeCalling.com, you're gonna do a course or a class at CreativeLive. That's a pretty special deal.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of people using that. I mean, I'm not really a hashtag, a big hashtagger, but there's already, the book just was announced, whatever, two weeks ago, and, and there's already, I don't know, two or 3,000 hashtags.

• 52:19Lewis Howes?

  What is it, CreativeCalling?

• 52:20Speaker 01

  CreativeCalling. Yeah, and it's, to me, it's just really important that the takeaway is that this isn't just about art. That creativity, it infuses meaning in our lives and helps us, it transforms our lives, it gives us personal power in a way that nothing else in our capacity can.

• 52:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. I love it, man. I'm excited. I'm gonna take the class, too.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 52:46Lewis Howes?

  CreativeCalling.com, check it out. They can also follow you, Chase Jarvis, on social media.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Everything. I'm at Chase Jarvis, or slash Chase Jarvis. The same is true with CreativeLive. It's at CreativeLive, or slash CreativeLive. And, yeah, or you can also just get it wherever books are sold.

• 53:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Hey, doing any bonuses if people buy?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  Bulk, and they can get like a CreativeLive class for free or something? Who knows?

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's actually-

• 53:06Lewis Howes?

  Throwing it out there as an idea?

• 53:07Speaker 01

  No, no, it's a little, it's a little beefier than that. It's, there's some mentorship.

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  There's a series of videos. Yeah, so-

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  And that's all at CreativeCalling.com. They can see all that stuff. I love it. Love it, man. What, what's something that people need to know? This final couple of questions.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 53:24Lewis Howes?

  What is something that most people don't know about creativity that they really need to know?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  That it's for everyone and it's not just a thing that's imbued to a lucky few. That it's a thing that we're born with, it defines us, gives us the agency over our own lives. And we've been sold, you know, we're suckers who were sold a lie by a machine that didn't, it wasn't intending to do harm. It was for the times that that was the best way that culture could wrangle, put its arms around humanity. And we're in a different time now and we need different tools. What got us here will not get us there. So creativity is going to underpin the solution to every problem we've ever known. The hunger crisis, any humanitarian crises, like those solutions are all going to have an element of creativity.

• 54:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Um, it's much bigger than art, which is, it's, it's a good place to start, but it is, again, it's much bigger than that.

• 54:19Lewis Howes?

  Everything, the planet problem, the issues with the ecosystem and everything, the pollution and, you know, all the plastic, all the biggest problems in the world, that's where we have an opportunity to bring out our creativity.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  For sure. And, and you've seen it solve problems before, like electricity, that's just electrical engineering plus creativity. The wheel, mechanical engineering, let's just talk about some fundamental stuff, like

• 54:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Someone had to think around and, and figure that out and they had to draw a picture.

• 54:46Lewis Howes?

  I gotta take a donkey everywhere or what's a faster way?

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Totally. And they, and they drew a picture of it first, all the, every spaceship that you see.

• 54:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  It was drawn first.

• 54:55Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, right?

• 54:55Speaker 01

  It was drawn by some artist somewhere and everything around you, everything without exception was designed. Why not you?

• 55:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I like that. Well, I acknowledge you, man. I love you. I appreciate you for being here because you bring a lot of permission for people to express their creativity when maybe they don't feel like they're capable of doing it. And I love that you continue to express it online, doing projects like this to give us tools. In information, so make sure you guys get this book. You do it with so much joy and love. And that's what I appreciate about you is you make creativity fun.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 55:30Lewis Howes?

  Art fun and built with community.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:33Lewis Howes?

  People involved. It's not just like, look what I'm doing by myself. You always bring other people involved in the creative process of your work of art. So I really love that about you. And I think that's the way art should be created. It's collaborative.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Thank you for acknowledging that. I really appreciate it. It means a ton. And you know how I feel about you. We talk about it all the time. I'm, I'm love you deeply and appreciate all the work that you do in the world.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, brother. Appreciate it, man. Uh, I don't remember if I asked you this question last time. It's called the three truths. Let's see, see.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  I hate the three truths.

• 56:01Lewis Howes?

  I don't remember what you said last time, but let's see if there's a.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  I should have prepared. I should have known I was gonna get attacked by the three truths.

• 56:08Lewis Howes?

  So imagine it's your last day on earth.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:10Lewis Howes?

  You've created every creative project you want to put out into the world. But for whatever reason, you've got to take those projects with you. You've taken it all with you in your past, right? Hypothetically. But you have a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true about your life and the lessons you would leave behind. And this is all people had to remember you by. Uh, these three lessons or three truths. What would you say are yours?

• 56:35Speaker 01

  One, that every person is creative. We're endowed with limitless creativity that can power not just one life, but a billion lives. The second is that this creativity is a process, a practice. It's not an, it's not an end. It's a journey and that it is, it is strengthened through use. And so use it as frequently as you can, acknowledge it, embrace it and train it like a muscle. And then third.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  That it is through using this muscle and using it regularly and mastering it, understanding it, that you, it is through this and only through this that you will be able to craft the life that you love, that you seek, and that is in service of others. And nothing else will get you there.

• 57:39Lewis Howes?

  Love it, man. And the final question, and the final question is even worse. What's your definition of greatness?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  These are just like any, any, all these like superlatives. Like I just felt like I just got pulled to the wringer. I felt like I just passed a test, barely.

• 57:54Lewis Howes?

  Barely. Now's the next test, the final test.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  The final test is spending time doing the things that you love with people that you love.

• 58:07Lewis Howes?

  There you go. Make sure you guys get the book, Creative Calling. Check it out. Follow Chase Jarvis. Love you, man.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Thank you. Love you too, bud. Appreciate your support.

• 58:17Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this interview. For me, I've always felt like I wanted to be more creative and I felt like I've used creativity in different areas of my life. But sometimes it gets held back when we think about other areas of our life that need attention, when we think about the responsibilities of life that need our attention. But the funny thing is, the responsibilities of our life, like staying healthy and being responsible for our family and our kids and our partner and our relationship and our career, you can infuse creativity in every area of your life. And a lot of this is just about having fun.

• 58:58Lewis Howes?

  You know, being creative is for me about having fun and bringing the joy and bringing the magic to every situation. You don't have to be this unbelievable painter to say you're creative. You can just express yourself in different, unique ways every single moment of the day to bring creativity to your life. So if you enjoyed this, please share with a friend, text one person, text a few people, lewishoes.com/853, or you can use the The link on the Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this and just text one friend who you think this could be helpful to, maybe who's lost some creativity in their life, maybe they're already are creative or they're an artist and you think this could help them grow and earn more money and bring some more structure to their creative endeavors,

• 59:42Lewis Howes?

  wherever it may be, share it with one friend today and spread the message of greatness. You can be that champion in someone's life by sharing this message with them. If this is your first time here, we do this every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We bring you some of the most inspiring people and ideas and topics from around the world to help you unlock your greatness. That's what this is all about, constantly becoming a better human being. We all fall down, we all make mistakes, we're never going to be perfect, but if we can constantly grow, learn and improve, that in my opinion is living a good life. If you enjoyed Chase, make sure to pick up his new book, follow him at Chase Jarvis and tag me on Instagram Stories when you're listening, at Lewis Howes. I'd love to hear from you over there. I try to

• 1:00:27Lewis Howes?

  get back to as many people as possible. As Pablo Picasso said, every child is an artist. The problem is staying an artist when you grow up, never grow up, and you can always be an artist in my mind. I love you so very much. And you know what time it is? It's time to go out there and do something great.