832 Whitney Cummings on Loving Yourself, Addiction and Creative Success

WE HAVE TO BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES. We learn a lot of coping mechanisms when we’re younger. They help us get through tough times. But so many of us are still carrying around tactics that are no longer needed. They can make us defensive. They can prevent us from developing relationships. And they can hold us back from our goals. We need to “update our software.” Our situation has changed, but our brain has stayed the same. By working through your issues and not being afraid to change, we can learn healthier ways to move through the world. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about letting go of the things that no longer serve us with a world-famous comedian: Whitney Cummings. Whitney Cummings is a stand-up comedian, actress and producer. She created the CBS sitcom 2 Broke Girls, the NBC sitcom Whitney, and the movie The Female Brain. She was also a producer and writer for the ABC revival of Roseanne. So get ready to learn all about codependency and reinventing yourself on Episode 832. Some Questions I Ask: When did you realize you were good at stand up? (6:30) What are you most proud of? (29:00) Who was more influential growing up- mom or dad? (51:00) How do you deal with the Hollywood ups and downs? (1:06:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: Why we should forgive our parents (20:00) How anxiety can help you (27:00) How to change the type of people you’re attracted to (36:00) Why your relationship needs to be “boring” (41:30) The difference between interdependence and codependency (48:00) Why financial freedom is important to Whitney (1:00:00) About PC culture and stand up comedy (1:33:00) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes and more at: http://www.lewishowes.com/832 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Episode number 832 with the inspirational Whitney Cummings.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Mary Tyler Moore said, "Take chances, make mistakes. That's how you grow. Pain nourishes your courage. You have to fail in order to practice being brave." I hope you're practicing being brave today because that's the way you're going to grow. That's the way you're going to build confidence within yourself when you do those things that are a little bit risky. And the more risks you take, the more you're going to build that confidence within and definitely grow. And I'm excited to talk about our guest today. I had an incredible time. But before I dive in on our guest, I want to remind you that the Summit of Greatness, our annual event, is less than a month away. That's right. We've got so many people flying in from all over the world.

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  Everyone's getting their tickets last minute. It's how people do it, I guess, these days. So if you're one of those last minute people, I do this as well. Make sure to go to summitofgreatness.com, check out the incredible speakers we have. We've got some of the most inspiring speakers in the world, workout leaders, who are going to lead you with great workouts in the morning and some special surprises like we always do. If you've been to one of our previous three annual events, then you know it's always a time to remember. So go to summitofgreatness.com right now and check it out. We are one month away. I want to high five you. I want to hug you. I want to say hi. I want to hear about your story. So make sure to get there because there's just going to be so many incredible people you will meet. And I don't want you to miss out this year. So make sure to go to summitofgreatness.com.

• 2:03Lewis Howes?

  Today, we've got the hilarious and inspiring Whitney Cummings.

• 2:08Lewis Howes?

  You hear a different side of Whitney in this interview. We really dive into a lot of things. I think she was a little shocked on some of the questions I asked her. And I was really moved by a lot of her responses. And I really just enjoyed my time and my company with her. I saw her on stage one time, laughed my butt off, and really got to dive into the work she's done. Now, she's a comedian, an actor, producer, an author who's appeared in multiple TV shows and films, as well as multiple stand-up specials. You've probably seen her either on Netflix or online, or one of her movies. One of her stand-up specials was nominated for an American Comedy Award. She created also the sitcom, the massive mega-hit, Two Broke Girls. You've probably watched that show, and the show Whitney.

• 2:54Lewis Howes?

  And her TV appearances have been on comedians of Chelsea Lately, Live Nude Comedy, which she created, starred in, wrote for, and the Comedy Central roasts of Joan Rivers, David Hasselhoff, and Donald Trump. Her incredible book, I'm Fine and Other Lies, was out in 2017. And her film, The Female Brain, which I saw on a plane recently, is now available for streaming. Her latest comedy special, Can I Touch It?, is also on Netflix right now. It's a funny one. Make sure you go watch Can I Touch It? on Netflix also. In this interview, we talk about why desperate energy is repellent.

• 3:35Lewis Howes?

  It's repellent. You know, in her business, the Hollywood business, it's definitely repellent. And it's also in almost every career possible. When anxiety can be a good thing in life. The importance of loving yourself in a way that is also self-aware. The addiction of being a victim, and how Whitney broke free of all of it herself. And doing work for yourself and not for the reward. Whitney takes a lot of risks that don't always get massive rewards, but that's what helps her grow. That's what makes her become more brave, more curious, more exciting, more adventurous, and what's what makes people respect her more. It's one of the reasons I respect her because of the risks she takes and the constant work she's willing to do

• 4:19Lewis Howes?

  on herself. So get ready for this one. I think you're gonna really love it. Make sure to share it with your friends and just share it with one friend today. One friend you think this will inspire, text them the link lewishouse.com/832. Text one friend the link to the podcast app that you're listening to, or just lewishouse.com/832. And spread the message of greatness, of inspiration, of learning, of knowledge. These tools can really help us grow when we apply just one principle from someone who's been there, who's done that, who's achieved great things, who's had big failures. And you can be someone's hero and champion today by just texting them right now. So whoever's on your mind right

• 5:02Lewis Howes?

  now that you really care about and think about, send them a text with a link to the podcast app that you're listening to, or lewishouse.com/832. And do me a favor while you're listening, leave a review on Apple Podcast and write a review. I don't care how many stars you give me, just write a review of what this specific episode has done for you. I'd love to hear your thoughts, your specific thoughts, and we share it with our team, we share it with our audience, the impact that we make on other people. So I'd love to hear your thoughts. Just write a review. You can leave one star, five star, it doesn't matter to me, but I just want to hear your thoughts. I want to hear from you. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the inspirational Whitney

• 5:45Lewis Howes?

  Cummings. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got the inspiring and hilarious Whitney Cummings in the house. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I watched your movie on a plane like eight months ago. Yeah. Female Brand. Yeah. And it showed a different side of it. Did none of the other movies load, or what was happening?

• 6:06Speaker 01

  What was you having?

• 6:07Lewis Howes?

  She's already got, she's like, zing.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  I was curious.

• 6:11Lewis Howes?

  No, because I wanted to learn more about you. I think I, I saw you at, whatever, Comedy Store, which one is it?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Oh, really? Comedy Store?

• 6:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I saw you there probably a year ago. I've only been there maybe four times in seven years since I've been in it.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 6:25Lewis Howes?

  Maybe four or five times. And I went there and you were performing and I was dying.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Really?

• 6:30Lewis Howes?

  You were so talented.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  A year ago, I must have been working on new material.

• 6:33Lewis Howes?

  A year and a half.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was pretty rough.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  So I was probably, yes. It seems like, that seems like when I was just starting this new hour and it was probably only premises.

• 6:42Lewis Howes?

  No, it was amazing.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 6:43Lewis Howes?

  It was amazing. And I was in the balcony watching you. I actually tweeted you afterwards, not that you saw it, but I was just like, wow. I really admired the way you worked the room, the way you tell amazing stories. And I think you were even saying, I'm working on new materials, so like, work with me here.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  But you weren't, you weren't allowing any of it to show that you were insecure in any way. Which I think you were talking beforehand, that a lot of comedians are always insecure.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is what drives us and you know, I, I know that we're all on this quest to solve insecurity and make it all go away, but insecurity sometimes drives us to do good things and get better and work harder, you know? So I think insecurity can be good fuel sometimes. It's not good if you're just, that's your default state. That's something to, to work on, but, but yeah, I definitely, it took me a long time to embrace the fact that in stand-up, you succeed by failing over and over again. It's like going to the gym, you're not always gonna have the killer day that you want to put on Instagram.

• 7:43Lewis Howes?

  Standing ovation, laughing out of their minds, snorting, yeah, milk.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Like, most people just see, you know, the, it's like a sculpture. Most people just see when it's done in the museum, right? You don't see the chiseling and the messing up and the fixing and the repasting and the whack-a-mole. You know, that's stand-up, when you come and see comedians like, you know, cobbling together. You're gonna see comedians at every level. Sort of figuring it out.

• 8:07Lewis Howes?

  I have no desire to be a comedian, but I feel like it'd be the most incredible training for my personal growth.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  I think everyone should do it once, even once.

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  Fail miserably and get laughed at in a bad way.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  I think you wouldn't. I think that you're so authentic and you know who you are. That's the key to it, I think.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  It's just, it's not about saying the thing that's the funniest, it's saying the thing that's the truest and that matches people's perception of you the most. You'll find out right away how people perceive you, which is kind of an interesting exercise.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:41Lewis Howes?

  What was the time that you realized, okay, I'm actually not that bad?

• 8:47Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean? Because there's probably a period of, or were you just always funny? And it always, people laughed and clapped and cheered?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  I mean, I, no. I mean, it's tricky because then you think you're great and then you have a bad couple of months. And then you think you suck and then you, you know, have nothing to lose. So all of a sudden, you're great one night just because you don't give a crap anymore. Yeah, and then you go, oh, whoa. It was the trying too hard that was repellent to people. And, you know, so as soon as you stop giving a crap because you think you suck, sometimes that's when you do your best work.

• 9:19Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  So I think that I've never got that right. There's a dysmorphia involved in it.

• 9:25Lewis Howes?

  So you still need to prepare and care about your material, but not care what people think about you.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  In a way, yeah, you have to care a ton and then as soon as you get on stage, you can't care at all.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:35Speaker 01

  You know, it's like this switch you have to turn on and off, but it's also, you can do the same set, same jokes, same way, two nights, one time you get a standing ovation, the next night you just bomb.

• 9:45Lewis Howes?

  Really? Why is that?

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Depending on your energy, depending on how in the moment you are, you know? I think that I took some boxing classes a couple of years ago and I couldn't believe how much like stand-up it was. If you're a second ahead or you're a second behind, the joke's not going to land. Like you just have to be like listening. It's a conversation with the audience. You know, a joke that worked the night before might not work tonight. You just can't go into autopilot. You can't, you just have to be right there.

• 10:11Lewis Howes?

  You gotta feel the energy.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Every city is different. Every venue is different. Every group of people is different. There's a bachelorette party in the corner. Weed's legal in California. It's different pacing in LA now. You know, it's just kind of. Being flexible and detaching from your plan. And detaching from the rote memorization. Or detaching from, this worked 50 times, so I'm just gonna do the same thing I've done. It's just being willing to detach from all the things that worked for the past year.

• 10:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  And being flexible, I think.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  And did you always wanna be in comedy? You know, in school, growing up?

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think I knew that's what I was meant to do. I was, you know, I hit a couple different walls that I thought, like, I thought I was gonna be a journalist.

• 10:53Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 10:54Speaker 01

  You know, cuz I was like a seeker, and I was curious, and I was critical, and I always wanted to get the dirt. Like, we're, comics were kind of snitches at heart, right? You know, we're complainy snitches that are obsessed with justice. And I thought I was gonna be like an Upton Sinclair, where I was gonna like go into factories and reveal that... We're obsessed with that stuff. We're obsessed with secrets and lies and injustices. And then, um, I was also a performer, and I was also like doing theater and plays.

• 11:23Lewis Howes?

  Like dancing and...

• 11:24Speaker 01

  No dancing, no singing, as a strong boundary. How dare you? Um, no, not like a theater kid, I was doing like very serious plays.

• 11:31Lewis Howes?

  Like Shakespeare?

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Like, um, A Doll's House, like, Ibsen's A Doll's House, which was sort of about this woman and a bad relation, you know? So I kind of was like, and then, when I was hanging out with my friends, I would tell these really long, boring stories about how I like hated how you can't find your car in a parking lot, and I don't like the ticketing system. And it was like, I didn't realize what I was doing with stand-up. I didn't realize...

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  Those are the conversations that do the best on stand-up.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Totally, and I was just sort of like, oh, I have a huge complaint, and I wanna talk about it for 40 minutes. This isn't a date. This isn't what you do on dates.

• 12:06Lewis Howes?

  This is what you do on performing for an audience.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  This is what you do in front of, you know, I just...

• 12:09Lewis Howes?

  Or your girlfriends.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  I totally, I was dancing around it, you know, I was dancing around it, and then someone one day, and I think just to get me to shut up, was like, you should try stand-up, like, it was the way of saying like, get this out of here.

• 12:21Lewis Howes?

  There's a couple of moments, I'm not obsessed with comedians, like, studying it all and going to all the shows and watching everything, but I enjoy it.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:30Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's fun for me, I watch different stuff when it's on Netflix, or I'll go to the Comedy Store once a year.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:35Lewis Howes?

  Type of thing. But I remember...

• 12:39Lewis Howes?

  I don't know if you're friends with him. Dane Cook had like a CD special like 15 years ago.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:44Lewis Howes?

  That he told a joke that was still in my mind.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  Something like you talking about the parking ticket system.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Whatever it was, yeah.

• 12:52Lewis Howes?

  And he was talking about when you're in a parking garage and your tires like squeal.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  And for some reason, this joke like stayed with me.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  It's nothing crazy funny or some out of the world.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  It just resonated with you and you felt connected. And I think that's what stand-ups do is like you put a bunch of strangers in a room and they all agree on something. They all connect on something. They vote differently. They're, you know, have different interests in movies and women and men. Who knows?

• 13:21Lewis Howes?

  Different races, different experience backgrounds.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  All come in with different socio-economics. Get together and go, the wheels squealing in the park. We all have that universal experience. It's finding the things that we can all kind of agree on. I think that always interested me. And I grew up in a home that was not harmonious where there was a lot of discord, a lot of disagreement. And I always kind of wanted to get everyone to agree and laugh.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  It was always like to try to sort of just manage tension. It was always like if I can make this person laugh, maybe Christmas will be fun. You know, like it was always kind of just trying to manage people. And then, you know, as an adult, it's almost like a herding dog, a shepherd that wants to get everyone in one place. I just sort of have this instinct of trying to go like, we actually have more in common than we don't.

• 14:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  It's something that it's just like an instinct that I don't know if you can teach. You know, I think Heather, you don't.

• 14:10Lewis Howes?

  Are you a younger sibling?

• 14:11Speaker 01

  I'm the youngest.

• 14:13Lewis Howes?

  The youngest of three?

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, the peacemaker, always, yes. I mean, we've got some illegitimate ones floating around, but three that we know of.

• 14:19Lewis Howes?

  That you know, okay.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 14:21Lewis Howes?

  So I'm the youngest of four. And for some reason, I just knew that you had an older sibling based on the way you were talking there.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Always.

• 14:26Lewis Howes?

  Youngest of three.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:28Lewis Howes?

  What was the biggest discourse? Within the family.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I mean, it was, I mean, it was, this is not, you know, I have no victim stuff about it, or regret about it, you know, you know, there's just the divorce and alcoholism and a lot of mental illness in my house growing up, a lot of, you know, we're very lucky, we're a generation that has podcasts like yours and some books like this.

• 14:50Lewis Howes?

  Tools to learn from.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  My parents didn't have those tools. It was passive-aggressive communication, it was everything's fine, everything's fine, then a huge explosion of resentment. There was no, like, talking about that. I also grew up with a mother that I'm really proud that I had, but she was the kind of first generation of women that was balancing full-time career and kids. So she was under a tremendous amount of stress and didn't have childcare and was just always so stressed out and exhausted. And, but taught me, she was up at 6:00 a.m. and she was home at 7:00 p.m. and she brought me to work with her, but I just saw her trying to manage everything and, you know, it was always like, how do I just make things easier for everybody else? And a joke kind of, to me, was like a magic trick. It's like, whoa,

• 15:35Speaker 01

  that was easy. That was an easy way to get love. That was an easy way to cut some tension.

• 15:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  So I learned early on how to kind of tap dance. We all did, you know, I think we all grew up in, you know, we're the first generation that isn't turning to alcohol and anger and rage and some kind of just quick dopamine hit.

• 15:54Lewis Howes?

  Or we're doing other dopamine hits, which is like meditation, working out, eight hours of sleep, eating healthy.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  A false sense of control. It's our new addiction.

• 16:03Lewis Howes?

  It's trying to optimize certain things that we can.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:07Lewis Howes?

  To ease.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Maybe over-correcting in a way.

• 16:10Lewis Howes?

  This is crazy because...

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Self-help-ism is kind of the new-ism.

• 16:14Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy because we're very similar, based on what you're telling me. You know, my parents were passive-aggressive. There was no love or affection. Zero. It was like they forced the love to try to show it. They should have been divorced before I was even

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Was there shame around getting a divorce, or?

• 16:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, they stayed together because of us, right? Not, wasn't because they loved each other. Maybe they loved each other in some sense, but they were both working full-time jobs to pay for all four of us kids and... Like my mom, you know, she was working full time and then trying to take care of us.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 16:44Lewis Howes?

  It's almost like they went crazy in a sense.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  And you're watching overwhelm, you know, you're watching.

• 16:48Lewis Howes?

  Stress, overwhelm, screaming, fighting, you know, constantly leaving the house and uncertainty.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  That's right. Inconsistency, stormy. And it's also, I think, you know, as a kid, because you don't understand the emotional one plus one equals two, so you're just trying whatever you can. And the same thing you're punished for one day, you're rewarded for the next day. It's like, to me, I never understood what added up. So it was like, be funny, be loud, tap dance, come out and say, you know, so I was always sort of experimenting with what worked. But I grew up in, and I wrote a book about codependence, which is something that is kind of a word we use to describe like, relationships where you spend a lot of time together, which is not really what, it can be codependence, but I didn't understand that I grew up in a, you know, alcoholic home,

• 17:37Speaker 01

  but also a very codependent home, which where people did a lot of things out of obligation.

• 17:43Lewis Howes?

  People pleased to feel, yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  And which is very, is part of like tradition, I think, in our culture. I won't speak for other cultures, but it is. You go to church on Sunday, you have to do this, you have to go to this bridal shower, you have to bring a gift, you have to go to this housewarming. There was a lot of sort of love that I now realize was obligation. Socializing that was obligation. We have to go to Christmas. And so many people were divorced. It was like going to nine people's houses for Christmas. And I didn't really learn, do what you want to do that makes you feel, it just forced yourself to do things, white knuckle through things. You do things out of obligation.

• 18:18Lewis Howes?

  And be resentful the whole time.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  That's right. And codependence breeds resentment, so I'm just gonna be miserable and socializing is joyless. Like I really had to work hard to make socializing joyful later because I just didn't have a concept that it wasn't work.

• 18:35Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. You know, I felt very similar. And when I was 13, I begged my parents to send me away because I just didn't want to be in the environment anymore. So this is why I went to St. Louis. I went to a private boarding school. I've met some kids that were just more positive. I was like, I want to be around these group of kids who are thinking differently, who are. Just feel like they're in better environments, better family environments. And I begged them for a whole summer to send me to the school, seven hours away from Ohio where I was living. And it sounded like you tried to escape as well.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't ask to be sent away. It wasn't as, that sounds very civilized. Yeah, I kind of got sent, I had.

• 19:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you did?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got sort of sent to Virginia.

• 19:17Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wait, how old were you?

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Because I was acting out, I was 12.

• 19:20Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  I know, we have a similar thing, that's a trip, yeah.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  So you got sent away?

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Uh huh, uh huh. I got sent away because there was, you know, various family drama hardcore. Yeah, and it was like my parents kind of just, it was too much for them. So I went and I lived with my aunts in Virginia for a while.

• 19:37Lewis Howes?

  An hour and a half, two hours away?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little more, like four hours away.

• 19:39Lewis Howes?

  Four hours, wow, for how long?

• 19:41Speaker 01

  About three years.

• 19:43Lewis Howes?

  So you went to middle school, high school for a little bit in Virginia away from your parents. You see them in summer?

• 19:49Speaker 01

  I'd see them on weekends, or yeah. You know, and I think that was, it was, it's interesting, you know, we're so, it's, you know, and I have all sorts of scars around that and character building moments, you know, but maybe it's American, maybe it's, I don't know, you guys will correct me in the comments, I'm sure. But it's just so odd to me that we're like raised by two people and that's it, you know? It's like we're kind of designed to be raised by many different people, that's right. And, you know, as odd as it felt for my parents to go like, we can't take care of you, we're leaving you here. Like, at the time, my brain was like, you're not good enough, you failed, you're unlovable, like all those narratives that of course my psyche was gonna write. Because my psyche, you know, I know it's the common thing, but I'll speak for myself,

• 20:33Speaker 01

  is that when our parents fail, that's too much for us to handle, so we have to blame ourselves. So that was a really big part of, you know, the way I developed. But looking back, I'm like, I feel really lucky that I got to be exposed to so many different kinds of parents and caretakers and their flaws and their strengths. And, you know, I grew up in DC and then I grew up in Virginia for a while. So I got to kind of get like, you know, and I think that's part of what makes me a good comedian, is I'm not just in this like elitist. Blue state. I got to see how people live that aren't in metropolitan areas. And see the value of that and learn community and connect with animals. And so I feel really lucky that I got to have a little bit of both.

• 21:15Lewis Howes?

  And you went back when you were 15, 16?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  And then I went back to DC when I was 15, 16, yeah.

• 21:19Lewis Howes?

  They were less exhausted.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  I think so, yeah.

• 21:21Lewis Howes?

  Your siblings were probably older, they were in college now, and so.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and you know, it was, it's, there's, there's some, you know, some scrapes. Like, it was, you know, it was not ideal. But I don't know where, like, we get off as people expecting our parents to have any idea what they're doing.

• 21:38Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  I mean, when you look around and look at your friends that get, have kids, you're like, "They're having kids?" Like, why?

• 21:45Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Like, you look at your friends and you're like, "Oh, my gosh, like, my parents, none of, no one was ready for kids."

• 21:51Lewis Howes?

  No one. My parents said, my brother when they were 19, they're like, in school.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 21:56Lewis Howes?

  They don't know who they are.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  I just feel like, for the most part, I mean, look, a lot of really tricky things happened to me as a kid. I have a lot of trauma, I'm the whole thing, and I do EMDR, and I'm in 12-step programs, and I, you know, I, a lot of people, I think, know about all the things I do to fix what happened. But for the most part, like, I think we have incredibly high expectations for our parents that are just too high. If you study history or you study the timeline of sort of what we know about neurology and psychology, it's only in the last 20 years that anyone stood a chance.

• 22:28Lewis Howes?

  And when we can learn to forgive and accept and have compassion for our parents, that's when we can really heal those relationships and heal ourselves for not beating ourselves up or feeling like we're less than or not good enough or not lovable.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it really was like, they did the best they could. And I don't, I truly don't think my parents were like, "How are we gonna mess up Whitney today?" Like, they were literally just trying to keep their head above water and given the tools that they had.

• 22:52Lewis Howes?

  It sounds like if you had a perfect life, you wouldn't be where you're at. The adversity is what makes you stronger, is what makes you more creative, and what makes you able to like break out of your comfort zone and try things probably.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  And it just is what it is. There's nothing I can do about it, you know? So I just, I think we spend so much time in blame. And that is just like, it to me, I have such a economy of energy brain. I just say, do you have spending any time being mad at someone that, you know, I, I just don't do it. And I love what you said about forgiveness, because I remind myself on a daily basis, like we forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness, but because we deserve peace.

• 23:28Lewis Howes?

  It's not about them.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:30Lewis Howes?

  Not saying it's okay.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Forgiveness is selfish, you know?

• 23:33Lewis Howes?

  For your inner peace.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  It's just taking things out of your backpack. It's just like, why am I carrying this around? You know? Yeah, my mom is, has enough shame about what happened. Like, I don't have to be mad on top of it. It's just not, it just doesn't.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  Guilt her till she dies.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  It just doesn't work, you know? So I think if it worked, I'd do it. But it just doesn't. Blame doesn't work.

• 23:52Lewis Howes?

  You're not more connected, more loving with each other?

• 23:54Speaker 01

  I don't get a check every time I get mad at my mom. It just doesn't pay any bills.

• 23:59Lewis Howes?

  Man, I'd be rich.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  I do, totally. I just don't.

• 24:01Lewis Howes?

  I'd be rich, right?

• 24:02Speaker 01

  See the point, you know? And I, you know, you might know this about me, but I've learned a lot about myself and about sort of the error in the ideas I have by training animals. And even when I have the best intentions, I make mistakes and I screw up. And I, you know, and I just, it makes me have so much more compassion for my parents.

• 24:25Lewis Howes?

  I love watching your videos of you with your horses. How many horses do you have?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  I have one. I only have one, but yeah.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  It seems like there's many, because it's.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. I've worked with many, but I, I only.

• 24:35Lewis Howes?

  And I think there was one a couple of weeks ago of you walking away. And it was just like your energy, she's like, look, she's gonna walk, or he or she.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:43Lewis Howes?

  And now if my energy's bad, she's gonna back off.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. It really, you know, I think I've spent so much time, I wasted my twenties really, and nothing's wasted, but I really did, was unconscious in my twenties because I was trying so hard to control other people and trying so hard, my subconscious brain was working so hard to figure out ways to make myself feel safe and to avoid abandonment and avoid rejection and avoid criticism. And as a result, I just, I realized and equine therapy is really the only thing that helped me understand it, besides Al-Anon and 12-step programs and codependence recovery, how desperate energy is repellent.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  So repellent.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  And the more badly we want something, when we push something, we push it away.

• 25:27Lewis Howes?

  When you have two desperate people, that you can come together and be like, away and together, away together, that's very codependent, right?

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:33Lewis Howes?

  Two desperate people.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  That's right, and just sort of like, the unhooking. And the only way to win is to not play, and to don't just do something, sit there. Because to me, my drug is taking an action. My drug is, and it becomes this sort of, the tighter you pull something, the knot just gets tighter and tighter. And that really is what I think about when I think of my twenties. It was just me trying so hard to be loved, and respected, and, and heard, and seen.

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  That I was like, it's just, it's annoying. It's, it's repellent is the, I think, best way to put it. And, you know, working with prey animals really helps you understand. It really holds up a mirror to your energy, and what you're giving off, and what is needy energy. And so, my horses really helps me with that.

• 26:20Lewis Howes?

  What are you most proud of about yourself that you've done in the last ten years? From your transition to twenties or thirties, looking back?

• 26:27Speaker 01

  That's a really good question, and I have a couple. Like, there's the financial things I'm proud of, like owning a home, and having a 401K, and just sort of...

• 26:36Lewis Howes?

  Independent, yeah.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  The basic self-care of that, you know, I grew up poor, like, just having health insurance is a big deal. So I think times where I'm like, I didn't get this, and I don't have this many things, and I don't have this much money. I'm just like, the fact that I have health insurance is, is a miracle with what I come from. I think we forget our basic gratitude lists. Or basic, if you had told me fifteen years ago that I would have a 401K, I would think you were, you know, on LSD. So, I think it's important to also have, you know, gratitude and about those little things. But for me, I, I would say it's, um, it's so simple for me. Handling a conflict with grace is like, the biggest achievement I can make at this point. Because achieving things, and getting things, and winning things, and selling shows, or making specials, that's all...

• 27:21Speaker 01

  You know, I know how to do that. But to me, the biggest challenges are sometimes just being able to shut my mouth for twenty minutes and listen to someone who's wrong. That to me is one of the biggest accomplishments.

• 27:35Lewis Howes?

  Listening to someone who's wrong and not trying to make them right?

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Not try to fix it and just go like, "That sounds hard." And not try to change someone's neurology in a conversation.

• 27:43Lewis Howes?

  Not coach them or give them a solution?

• 27:45Speaker 01

  No, I'm sorry you feel that way.

• 27:46Lewis Howes?

  Not try to be like a guy, essentially, right?

• 27:49Speaker 01

  How dare you? How dare you imply that I talk about the differences between men and women? That to me is, that's what's been the hardest thing for me. Is to be able to be in a relationship with someone, working relationship, romantic relationship, and not try to control their behavior, opinions, neurology, and to be able to tolerate the discomfort of others and other people being wrong. Wrong is subjective, so what is that even? So the hardest thing for me is becoming a boss and having employees and just going, "They're not doing that the way I would do it, and I'm just gonna have to..."

• 28:22Lewis Howes?

  Accept it.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  And I'm not gonna spend the next hour obsessing over how I would have done it and micromanaging the person. It's just that kind of taking the hooks out.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  For me, has been a big one. Being able to tolerate the discomfort of others, the flaws of others. That's my biggest thing.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting you say that because in the beginning, before we started recording, you said something about how you don't, how we shouldn't love ourselves in like a cheeky way. You were like, "We shouldn't just be all, 'Love yourself for who you are, because then you're not gonna work to improve yourself.'" Is that right?

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't, I was driving over here and I was like, "God, I hope I'm a good fit for this show." Because I am so like, you know, I see all this self-help stuff on Instagram and I just am like, I don't like generalizations. My brain just doesn't do well with them. Like, "Black and white, love yourself." Like, I see this war on self-deprecation. I see this war on anxiety. That's the, all I hear about is, "I have anxiety, I gotta get rid of anxiety." Anxiety is great. It is why our species has proliferated. Anxiety is information. It tells us what situations to get out of. It tells us what people are not healthy for us. It tells us, it's our gut, you know? And I know there's anxiety disorders and I've struggled with it,

• 29:37Speaker 01

  but it usually is information telling me, "Do less of this thing. Cut this person out of your life," you know? And... I think anxiety is important. So is adrenaline, so is cortisol. I think that we're leaving neurology out of a lot of these conversations and we're leaving sort of a evolutionary biology element out of a lot of these conversations. So a lot of the things that made humans so successful, we're now trying to get rid of. And, you know, we have such a big problem with people self-medicating in our country. And I think a lot of it is like, well, we gotta get rid of our anxiety. It's like, no human is allowed to be uncomfortable, ever, ever. I'm not pro-anxiety, but I do think that anxiety is our gut sometimes telling us information we need to know.

• 30:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think if you look at it as intuition, like if you're starting to feel anxious about a moment, or stressed, or like something's off, and you feel anxious, okay, you don't need to hold on to that for 30 days, or for three years. Like, you shouldn't stay in that space, but listen to it and figure out a way to adjust something in your life, right?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just there's, I think that we tend to pick and choose the pain and discomfort that we want, you know? You don't go to the gym and go like, oh, this hurts, I'm not doing it. Like, you go, no, this is like, I don't know anything about exercising.

• 30:49Lewis Howes?

  You grow, it looks better.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  I'm gonna tear the muscle and get stronger, you know? And I think for me, this whole, like, love yourself, like, I wrote a book on loving yourself and overcoming codependence and building self-esteem, but that term, to me, doesn't honor neurology and how self-esteem or the frontal lobe works. And it also is just like, love yourself if you did something, what are the esteemable actions, you know? If you want high self-esteem, you have to engage in esteemable actions. This idea of like, everyone just deserves to love themselves all the time, like, I don't know, I mean, some people...

• 31:24Lewis Howes?

  I think you should, I think it's like, there's something to be accepting yourself for where you're at and how far you've come, and say, okay, I accept and love for where I'm at right now. But I also know there's more available for me.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  I think for me, I need an engine. I need, I...

• 31:37Lewis Howes?

  You can play sitting around all day.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, for me, it's not possible to just go, oh, I love myself out of nowhere. That's just not how nature or nurture works. So I think for me, I'm really into achievable goals, but I do think there's this... Sort of generation of people that maybe love themselves too much and haven't like, you know, so and that's maybe my comedian brain kicking in. And I think that there's self-acceptance, there's self-love. I think I just, and this is just, yeah, probably me trying to make a joke about it, but a lot of the people that I see saying like, "I'm gonna love myself today." I'm like, "Aren't you the same person that just tweeted something nasty about it?" You know, I'm just like, "Why would you love yourself?" That, you know, so I think that we just need to, I think self-love coupled with self-awareness is important.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  This radical, "I'm perfect the way I am all the time."

• 32:26Lewis Howes?

  I don't think so.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Look at our environment, look at our world catching on fire. Like, we might love ourselves too much.

• 32:31Lewis Howes?

  And I think we build more confidence by the actions that we take. And it's by being our word consistently, whether it be in a relationship or if you say you're gonna work out five days a week and actually following through to your commitments. I think that's what makes you feel like, "Okay, I love myself." I'm like, "Appreciate myself more for the actions that I took and for being a good human being."

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:53Lewis Howes?

  You know?

• 32:54Speaker 01

  And I guess for me, what I, and I don't think I'm being clear, like, my problem with love yourself is like, I try not to set goals that are so unachievable and vague that I then feel disappointed that I couldn't. So when I go, "I'm gonna love myself in five minutes," it's just like, that's not fair. I'm setting myself up to fail. I'm trying to change 36 years of neurology and God knows how many thousands of years of epigenetic imprinting. I'm trying to overcome it because of a, like, an Instagram meme I saw that said, "Love yourself." You know, it just feels like a shortcut that is not attainable and I'm just gonna be more disappointed in myself when I can't achieve it right away. So I like to take like, bite-sized pieces of goals so that I don't,

• 33:39Speaker 01

  you know, a big thing we do in 12-step programs is you, you know, in order to honor your word, you only set boundaries you can actually follow through with and you don't make threats. Or, so if you and I are in a relationship and you're on your phone while we're talking, I'm like, "If you ever do that again, I'm gone."

• 33:53Lewis Howes?

  You can't threaten this.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Nope, you cannot threaten something that you can't follow through with, that's not attainable, because then, of course, you're gonna check your phone again.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  And where are you leaving from?

• 34:01Speaker 01

  And then I, and then I'm not gonna leave, because I just said and made an impossible threat that I can't follow through with, and then I'm gonna, it's gonna start to erode my self-esteem.

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Because my word means nothing.

• 34:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  You know, and you can't take me seriously, and I can't take me seriously, and then I don't respect myself, and so I just try to...

• 34:17Lewis Howes?

  And you resent everything.

• 34:20Lewis Howes?

  Did you do this in many relationships?

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  It sounds like?

• 34:22Speaker 01

  I don't know what you're talking about, no. I've heard that people do this.

• 34:25Lewis Howes?

  Do you struggle in your current relationship? Because you're engaged, right?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  I am engaged, and I'm really lucky. I, you know, by the time we started dating, I'd been in a 12-step program for almost eight years. I've been doing EMDR for about four.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  I've been hearing EMDR is amazing, I hear.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  It's a game changer. It's a game changer. Again, like, I'm not a, this is the panacea that's gonna fix everyone. If you have, you know...

• 34:48Lewis Howes?

  You need lots of tools.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:50Lewis Howes?

  Try different things, yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  And I had also been in a 12-step program for, whatever, five years by the time I got to EMDR. So I think I had the tools to even receive what it was. I'm also a big fan of the placebo effect.

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  It's an effect that works, whether it's psychosomatic, whether it's scientific, I don't care.

• 35:07Lewis Howes?

  It works.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  I was in a place where I could really receive it, and I was ready to change. So I think that there's no point in doing it if you're not ready to change, or if you don't buy it, or whatever, you know? But it was at a time where I was really ready to release my character defects and put down all the weapons that I needed when I was a kid.

• 35:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Because I was carrying around a lot of armor and a lot of weapons that worked great.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  A lot of masks.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  When I was younger, yes. I had a mask on, a ma- I was the, you know? And I was just ready, I was ready to stop fighting. It was like something we say in, you know, Al-Anon is, "The war is over, you lost." And it's like, you know?

• 35:44Lewis Howes?

  Surrender.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. And we're like running around on a battlefield of a war we lost with our guns and our harpoons and our cannon, and it's like, no, we're not...

• 35:54Lewis Howes?

  And the war is meaningless.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  It's been over for 20 years, and you're running around like a maniac, you know?

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  Isn't it interesting? Until we kill ourselves, we can't become something greater. Like, we have to kill our old self, kill our ego...

• 36:07Speaker 01

  It's such a shame because...

• 36:08Lewis Howes?

  Shit off these things, right?

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Because I, you know, I think in something that I talk about, you know, in codependent recovery stuff, it's like... The person that grew up in the home that that's a superhero. That's a, you know, I think we tend to look at our character defects as failures in some way, or as that weirdo, that psycho, I was crazy. It's like, no, I was perfectly equipped to fight that emotional war. I was perfectly equipped to deal with, you know, mental illness and addiction and codependence and rage and whatever. I just like, don't need to be the Hulk anymore.

• 36:38Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  You know?

• 36:40Lewis Howes?

  It's exhausting.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  It's exhausting and it's just not useful or smart and it's an energy drain. And it's like, um, I'm just, it's the funhouse mirror. It's just my perception. I just need to sort of update the software is what I call it, you know?

• 36:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  It's that things have changed and my brain stayed the same. So it's just really acclimating to my new circumstances.

• 36:58Lewis Howes?

  So how is this new relationship that you've been, I guess you've been in for a few years now. How is this your partner now with all the work you've done? How do you feel like, what's your rating?

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Well, I think for me.

• 37:08Lewis Howes?

  What's your grade card?

• 37:09Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 37:10Lewis Howes?

  If you're like a D in other relationships, are you like a B plus and A minus?

• 37:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Or you're like the gold star every day?

• 37:17Speaker 01

  It took, oh God, I give myself a B minus, I would say.

• 37:23Lewis Howes?

  That's a lot of room to improve.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, a lot of room to improve.

• 37:26Lewis Howes?

  But hey, I was a C student, so it's not that bad.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  It's, but not so bad. I mean, I also am a perfectionist, so I'm sure other, my version of a B minus is probably other person's, another person's A minus. Yeah, so I feel like check for inflation. I feel grateful, you know, I also took this sort of course on how to kind of change the type of person you're attracted to because I'm sort of obsessed with Harville Hendrix and how we're attracted to people who have the negative qualities of our primary caretaker. So.

• 37:54Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Crazy. So I kept recreating my childhood circumstances.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  So did I.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Over and over and dating my dad and dating my mom and dating my siblings and it was just like incest. At a certain point, you gotta stop dating your dad, guys. And it would just trigger me and, you know, I had to do a lot of, I even did a lot of sort of like body trauma work because, you know, our bodies react before our brains. Totally my favorite. So we are the same person, this is alarming. So I would.

• 38:24Lewis Howes?

  You're just much funnier than me.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  As soon as I, not at nine A, but as soon as I would get into a defensive, I was gone. It was like I would just go offline and I would just turn into this robot who was just, and so. I found myself being attracted to people that I had to take care of, people that were a mess, people that were chaotic. And it was just adrenaline and you know, and I'm also identify as an addict. So adrenaline turns into dopamine. So you know,

• 38:51Lewis Howes?

  You rush.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Dramatic situations are addictive.

• 38:53Lewis Howes?

  They are.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Dramatic people are addictive.

• 38:55Lewis Howes?

  Drama is addictive.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Correct. Correct.

• 38:57Lewis Howes?

  Stress.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Yes. And being a victim is addictive. Being in a relationship where you're like, well, he doesn't do this and he doesn't do this. It makes you feel.

• 39:05Lewis Howes?

  It's your responsibility.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  It makes you feel interesting. It makes you feel bonded to other people. Complaining is addictive. And I was in all of these really hectic relations, secret relationships and cheating and, and you know, you always feel like you're in your own action movie and you feel important. And this, you know, so I found myself on that hamster wheel for a long time. And I was addicted to addicts and sick people and malignant narcissists was my drug for quite a while. You know, so we call them Christmas trees. Like you, you know, when you have not recovered your brain and the type of thing that you're attracted to, you can walk into a room and it's just like the most messed up person will just light up. It's the only person that's.

• 39:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow, this is my person. I'm gonna rescue you. They're gonna make me feel more important. They're gonna need me.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  We call it passion. We call it chemistry. We call it butterflies. When that's really just your body saying, stay away from this person. Anxiety. It's helpful. We go, oh, screw that anxiety. No, screw the person that's making you. Well, don't, but you know.

• 40:12Lewis Howes?

  I mean, it's a really reflection of us, though.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:14Lewis Howes?

  You know.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 40:15Lewis Howes?

  We attract what we are.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Vibrate. We just vibrate on a different frequency. So find it.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  Might be a different level of messed up that we are.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. So I'm, it took me a long time to realize like chemistry is a red flag. If I vibe with somebody, turn around, get in your car and just leave the party.

• 40:32Lewis Howes?

  You should still vibe with the person you're with.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  You should get along, but if it's like, huh, something else is going on.

• 40:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  For me personally.

• 40:39Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  You know, I found that if you like enmesh with someone right away and you're like, we spent five days together straight, like that is for me addictive. And I kept getting into these addictive entrenched things where you fall in love before you know the person. You know, and so it took me a long time. You know, because I kept being in these relationships with unrecovered codependents, unrecovered addicts, unrecovered narcissists, and you know, as if that's something you can really recover from. And my brain labeled it as chemistry, passion, soulmate, all these sort of things that we tend to romanticize. And it took me understanding neurology to really realize I was just kind of a puppet of this dopamine/oxytocin cycle.

• 41:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  So that was really helpful for me. Learning neurology, I think, is the biggest game changer. And when you said, like, what are you proud of? I think for me, that's the biggest one, to be able to just honor neurology and not make everything so romantic, or personal, or cinematic. It's like, oh, that was just oxytocin.

• 41:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  They're not your soulmate. That's all that was. It's okay, you know? So for me, it was really, I had to write lists, and I wrote about it in my book, like, lists of, you know, what I wanted, what was, would be nice. It was like a list my therapist made me do. It was like...

• 41:57Lewis Howes?

  Dreamless.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Requirements with someone, which is like requirements, like not budging on this.

• 42:02Lewis Howes?

  Not negotiable.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Not negotiable. My bottom lines. This is what I must have. This would be nice, and red flags. And the red flags were like, not negotiable.

• 42:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  You know, so that, I really had to figure out...

• 42:14Lewis Howes?

  They can't be an addict, they can't be whatever it is, yeah.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Correct. Married, you know? On MySpace, things like that.

• 42:23Lewis Howes?

  They can't be married right now.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Hard and fast rules, you know? Because I think that the problem with chemistry clouds our frontal lobe, you know? Dopamine clouds our judgment, you know? Clouds our judgment. And so for me, I had to get really self-aware about my judgment.

• 42:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes, no list, so it's clear. Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  I had to really treat it like a business proposal, as non-romantic as that sounds, you know? Because I found that my relationships were draining me and depleting me instead of energizing me, and that, that's a bottom line for me. So...

• 42:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, no stripper poles.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  No stripper poles. No, thank you, I'm good, and I, you know, it's something, my therapist said something to me that was really interesting. You know, she basically went, "Your relationship needs to be boring." And I was like, "No way, what do you mean? They have to be exciting and this."

• 43:11Lewis Howes?

  You're gonna bring the excitement.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  It, she was like...

• 43:13Lewis Howes?

  You've got action and energy.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  What she made me realize is, what's boring to you is really just serenity.

• 43:19Lewis Howes?

  Peace.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 43:23Lewis Howes?

  I want to take a moment from this interview with Whitney to talk about a product that has been helping me over the last few weeks. If you don't know about Beam TLC, this is a company founded by two ex-professional athletes on the idea that everyone should have the chance to experience what better feels like. We shouldn't be feeling pain in our body all the time. And Beam's mission is to empower people to push their limits and pursue their passions by improving their physical and mental state. Whether you're an athlete or an entrepreneur, you're a busy parent, or a weekend warrior, Beam is making waves in the wellness industry by offering products that combine 100% THC-free CBD

• 44:05Lewis Howes?

  with other high-quality ingredients to seamlessly become part of your lifestyle. Their products include organic pharmaceutical CBD oil in both mint and natural flavors, a topical lavender-scented CBD-infused salve. This is like a cream that I've been using on my toe, that I've had turf toe for the last six months from playing with the USA handball team, and it's been helping me relieve a lot of my pain in my toe and in my feet. They've also got all-natural CBD-powered protein bars in vanilla, coconut, and cacao flavors. And I'm telling you, they've just got a great brand and a great mission. And the founders know what it takes to perform at a high level. They're ex-pro athletes, so they know what it takes to perform at a high level

• 44:49Lewis Howes?

  and what the body needs. Now, whether you're sore or stressed, Beam's there to elevate your every single day. Try Beam and find your path to better. Visit beamtlc.com, use the promo code GREATNESS for 15% off your order. Again, go to B-E-A-M-T-L-C.com and use the promo code GREATNESS for 15% off your order. And now, let's get back in this episode with Whitney Cummings.

• 45:20Lewis Howes?

  Because you don't have peace in any relationship.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 45:23Lewis Howes?

  And you need to have peace when you go home.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  That's right. Your home should be a sanctuary and you should... I love that Flaubert quote, which is like, you know, isn't it be boring in your personal life so you can be brave and violent in your professional life and take risks?

• 45:35Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, that's...

• 45:35Speaker 01

  And a lot of the most successful people, at least in my field, are the ones that are like, have been married for 35 years, you know, Will Ferrell and Steve Carell and all these guys where they're not out dating, you know, it's a time suck.

• 45:46Lewis Howes?

  So much energy.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  It's a full-time job.

• 45:48Lewis Howes?

  It's so much energy.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  And I realized I was chasing people whose love I couldn't get, that I could never get because of this addiction to, I think rejection and abandonment and this addiction to auditioning for approval. So I would be like...

• 46:01Lewis Howes?

  Auditioning for approval, as you said?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  I'd be magnetically attracted to people whose approval I could like never get.

• 46:08Lewis Howes?

  Like your dad.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Like my dad. Or a malignant narcissist who just can't, you know, or I would need too much from somebody who couldn't give. You know, I was just really constantly in those relationships and I was in relationships where I would do 80, they would do 20, because to me, like my workaholism, like that was just my comfort zone.

• 46:25Lewis Howes?

  Make it work, yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  And so I really, it took me a long time to get out of that. So to answer your question, it's kind of a victory, triumph, really, a victorious triumph that I'm in a relationship that's healthy and...

• 46:37Lewis Howes?

  Peaceful.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Peaceful and, you know, just, he's just useful and calls me out on my [BLEEP] and sets boundaries and...

• 46:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's good. He stands up for himself, too.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  He's not just letting you walk all over him.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  No. And I could be authentic with him and, you know, it's really like, and he has the tools to have these conversations, which is really helpful. You know, I think you have to date someone that has a similar toolbox in you.

• 46:58Lewis Howes?

  So motion intelligent, yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Or else what are you doing? And if he doesn't, it's like he's able to say, express that he's not and so am I, you know, and we're really, you know, and I also, I, this was something that I think was really helpful in this relationship. I didn't throw all my crap at him right away. I used to think that my trauma was the only thing that was interesting about me and...

• 47:17Lewis Howes?

  Your heart is interesting.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Really?

• 47:20Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  But I didn't sort of give it all at once, you know? It was, it started long distance, which I think was really helpful for an addictive brain, because it was able to pace.

• 47:31Lewis Howes?

  You can't spend 24/7 for two weeks with them.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  It's not sustainable.

• 47:35Lewis Howes?

  obsess over like every little detail.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  No, don't do it.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  I'm at long distance right now and actually, it's amazing because I miss her. And I'm like, God, I wish she was here, but I'm also like, wait, let's wait. Let's give it more time. Let's like really enjoy the process, like we're communicating on the phone. We're not obsessing over certain things.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  No, yep.

• 47:55Lewis Howes?

  She's independent, I'm independent. We're building like a foundation. I feel really.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  It's really, I mean, this is just such a basic thing and we didn't, I didn't learn basic things like this when I was a kid. Get to know someone.

• 48:11Lewis Howes?

  Don't just fall in love like this.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Don't, just get to know, it's very simple, you know? I mean, this is, you know, for me, I was just so sloppy about it. And I think for me, again, like I, my biggest fear in life is being boring, believe it or not. And so my thing was like, here's all my trauma and here's all the terrible things that happened to me and here's my, you know, all my, and it just.

• 48:32Lewis Howes?

  Interesting and complex I am.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  It gives you this false sense of emotional progress with the other person, this false sense of intimacy that's just not real and you're in this house of cards. So for me, it was really about kind of doling out my personal information with him. I mean, in a way that was.

• 48:48Lewis Howes?

  It was organic.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Healthy.

• 48:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was organic.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  And it wasn't like, I'm gonna show all my victim. So then now you're attracted to a victim and now we're in this unhealthy thing. You know? So it was really important to me to sort of curate and still be authentic, but kind of just curate and be boundaried about what I shared with him when. Because I was trauma bonding with people and wasting six months at a time.

• 49:12Lewis Howes?

  What's the thing you love about him the most?

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 49:14Lewis Howes?

  Different type of podcast.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I love this. This is, these are questions that nobody ever asks me.

• 49:20Lewis Howes?

  It's good.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  I love it. The thing that I love about him the most is, you know, and I think this is so obvious, maybe, he really is endeared by a lot of my, for, I don't, I don't like when people call themselves crazy and I, and I don't, I tend not, I try not to do it to myself. I'm really careful about it.

• 49:36Lewis Howes?

  Be careful about your words.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  So careful.

• 49:38Lewis Howes?

  Become what you say.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  My idiosyncrasies. He's, he's entertained, quirkiness, yeah, yeah. And he understands, you know, recovery and he's very like. You know, he's like, I'm gonna stay in my lane. He doesn't try to control me, he doesn't try to fix me.

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  My thing is I have enough notes for myself, I don't need more notes. I wanna hear your feedback and I wanna improve, but he's not, you know, he's entertained by it.

• 50:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Which I think is important. You need someone that is kind of your fan. And isn't disappointed, like when you do something. He's just, he doesn't take personally my behavior.

• 50:13Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  How about that?

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  He doesn't.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  It's not like everything I do is...

• 50:16Lewis Howes?

  Just affect him.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, if I don't text him back, he's just like, what happened? He's not like, where have you been? He's just very like, did you lose your phone again? I mean, he's just like...

• 50:23Lewis Howes?

  Not insecure, jealous.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  No, he's just, exactly, he's very just kind of endeared by, you know, I have five, every day I come home with a new dog, or a pig, or a horse, like he's just...

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  Chickens.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  He's a very patient man.

• 50:34Lewis Howes?

  Okay, yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  He's a very patient man, and I need that.

• 50:37Lewis Howes?

  I interviewed a friend of mine named Devon Franklin.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, that's familiar.

• 50:42Lewis Howes?

  He's produced different movies, written books.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 50:45Lewis Howes?

  I don't know if I have one of his books up here. His wife's Megan, Megan Good, is that her name, Megan Good?

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Mm, oh yeah.

• 50:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, he's a pastor, speaker, all, he's really inspiring. And I said, he wrote a book called The Wait, where he waited to have sex with his, with his wife until they were married, right? And he talks about relationships. And I said, and I went through a breakup at the end of last year, and I interviewed him afterwards, and I go, when do you know you've found the right partner?

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  Maybe not like your soulmate, but like,

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:12Lewis Howes?

  the one who can be the one.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:14Lewis Howes?

  And he, without hesitation, said, when you feel at peace.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:17Lewis Howes?

  I never thought about that before.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  So simple.

• 51:20Lewis Howes?

  Well, you just mentioned this, how it's like peace at home, so you can be chaotic and take risks in the world.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I can't walk into my house and get, like, I mean, he, I can say to him, I mean, I feel really lucky that I can go, I don't have a lot to give this week.

• 51:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  I can say that, I don't have a lot to give today. You know, you need someone who is able to get their internal needs met without you. Have their own friendships, have their own life, get their own, derive their own value from their job, or their work, or family, or whatever. You know, and he also, I think for me, you're never gonna find the perfect, that's not a thing. It's like, are you with someone who's willing to course correct?

• 51:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Are you willing to be with someone, are you with someone who's willing to grow for you? If that's what you need. So for me, there was like, you know, a couple things, like... When we met, you know, I was like, this doesn't work for me. Is that something you're willing to change or not? And if you're not, I just gotta go. We're not gonna, you know, it's figuring out what your bottom lines are and seeing how flexible the other person is. So this is, this is the first time I entered a relationship like as a business deal.

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  You know, like, okay, here's are the things I need. Here are the things that don't work. Are those, are you willing to change those? If not, I gotta go, no love lost.

• 52:26Lewis Howes?

  How many things did he have to change? You're talking about 20 things? I'd be like, dang, this guy's.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  I had to change some things too.

• 52:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  And they made me better.

• 52:34Lewis Howes?

  He had some non-negotiables. He was like, alright, you're.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  We made each other better, I think, you know? And there's some things I'm like, that's not gonna change. I don't have time to change that.

• 52:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  I just, this, I don't hate, I don't, you know, so it's really like, uh, it's a negotiation.

• 52:48Lewis Howes?

  Dance.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  It's emotional negotiation. It's like, what's tolerable? But I think to me, the thing that is the most valuable is that we can be in the same space and not be talking or touching each other. You know, that to me is a big deal, because I used to think that intimacy was about proximity.

• 53:02Lewis Howes?

  Always like touching, talking, like, it's silence, something's wrong.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  My horse taught me that. You can coexist with somebody and not be so close that you're gonna put each other in danger all the time. There's this thing I love that we say in program is that if you are holding a handful of sand, if you hold it like this, you can hold it forever. But if you hold it like this, you're gonna lose it. You know, so the goal is to always hold it like this, anything.

• 53:23Lewis Howes?

  They can, it can leave at once, it can.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  That's it. I love you, keep going, you know, is our thing. You know, I love you, keep going, go do your other thing, go have your, do that, you know, because this is just, you never wanna be here, you wanna be here. So that's not.

• 53:35Lewis Howes?

  I was thinking about being here, like moving like up together, side by side.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Well, that's right, right? This is the other thing.

• 53:40Lewis Howes?

  Forward or up, yeah.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  People have to, I mean, I didn't learn this as a kid. This is your.

• 53:44Lewis Howes?

  They teach this in schools, right?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Your listeners are like, we, like, maybe this is so obvious, but something that, you know, someone explained to me, this neurologist, she was like, if two trains are going like this, they can go forever. But as soon as you're here.

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  You crash.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you can crash in relationships. You're just so, him and I can coexist in the same room, I can be on my phone, he can be reading a book, we're not, what are you doing? It's not, him having a life is not a rejection, and me having a life and ambitions is not a rejection to him personally. And I'd only been in relationships where me going on a trip, he has to come, and me, you know, if you and I have to come with you, you know, this, this sort of, um, interdependence, not codependence.

• 54:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Was something that took me a really long time to learn.

• 54:24Lewis Howes?

  Who was, uh, more influential for you growing up, mom or dad?

• 54:30Speaker 01

  God, that's such a good question. God damn it, you're asking such good questions. I think it was probably my dad. I don't know. I don't know. Probably my, influential in different ways.

• 54:46Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  You know, but yeah, maybe my dad.

• 54:50Lewis Howes?

  What was the biggest lesson he taught you?

• 54:54Lewis Howes?

  Whether through actually him saying a lesson or just example or what he didn't do?

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. That, you know, he said something to me that I love, that I, I didn't understand how good his advice was until he passed. Like, I didn't, I didn't, you know, because I had this narrative that I had a crappy dad, I had a crappy mom, and that's all we focus on, you know? And then you do a little work on yourself and you're like, okay, there were some major gems in there. He used to always say, ask other people questions. They just want to talk about themselves. And I never, it took me so long to take that advice because I thought, when you meet someone, you have to entertain them and you have to impress them. And you have to show them all the things that you know. It didn't occur to me like, no, just ask the person about themselves. That's how you connect with somebody.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Like, I thought every time I met someone, I had to perform for them. You know, and I just thought that that was the arrangement. And it took me a long time to understand that the easiest way to connect with someone is to just ask them questions about themselves. I know that sounds so obvious, but it's such a life hack. And it's such a great way to me now in business to find out who I'm dealing with. Because I like to decide who somebody is. And then when they don't match how I've cast them, I get confused. I'm not interested in who you are. I'm interested in who I think you are and then you disappointing me. Like, it's just like the most backwards. I've like made an assumption about you and then you didn't match my assumption.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Instead of actually just doing the field work and finding out who somebody is and if it's a good match, you know? That was really helpful for me. And he also gave me some really good advice where he said, be careful with how independent you come off because it doesn't occur to other people to help you or give you any kind of emotional support. Because what I would do is I'm a strong woman.

• 56:46Lewis Howes?

  I'm fine, I got this.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  I'm independent, I'm fine, and da, da, da. And I'm like, why isn't anyone helping me? Like, why are we doing everything alone? It's like, it would never occur to anyone. So it, just asking for help was a really big deal for me for a really long time. Just saying, can I get some help with this? And it not being a shamey, gross, I owe you, you owe me, now I'm keeping score. Because in my household, asking for help or involving an adult in a problem came with guilt or shame, or you're needy, or you're, you know, something. There was just too much of an emotional aftermath.

• 57:18Lewis Howes?

  You're not good enough to do it on your own, or smart enough, whatever.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 57:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Totally. So just little things like that, that probably... But he also, my dad was gone a lot, you know? And I definitely have been defined by the absence of a dad when I was a kid, you know? And it took me a really long time to not decide all men were that way, or to not let it frame the way that I saw the world.

• 57:40Lewis Howes?

  How did the relationship end for you when he passed?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  With my dad? Oh, it was...

• 57:45Lewis Howes?

  Were you in a good place, do you feel like, or...

• 57:47Speaker 01

  No, not really. I mean, you know, I don't, you know, I think that's, that death is such a defining part, you know? It's interesting because, and I don't know if anyone wants to hear about death, but all the things that I'd been working on for so long kind of click into place when a death happens, you know? Working so hard on boundaries, working so hard on saying no, working so hard at reducing the amount of things on my plate, working so hard to not do things out of obligation. You know, I've spent so much time doing that. And as soon as I lost my dad, it was like, I'm not doing that. Nope, I'm not going on a hike with that person. It just, everything becomes so clear, what's important and what's not. So it's interesting.

• 58:27Lewis Howes?

  It's sad that it needs something like that to happen for us to...

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  Course correct our life.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Or just me. It could be me and what I needed, you know? And, you know, I think that, and I don't know how that tool is helpful, don't kill your dad, to emotionally make the progress you need. But, you know, it was something that was a little bit like... You know, his passing kind of was just a really big part of, you know, things, you know, clicking into place. And in a weird way, I think it's the gift he would have wanted to give me in a weird way. And he had a stroke, both my parents had strokes, which is a big part of why I got so into neurology and had to understand it really quick. Because I was all of a sudden in ERs, looking at brain scans and people talking about the prefrontal cortex. And I'm like, I have no idea what that means and finding out what part of the brain, you know, affects what.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  And, um, and so I think that like ultimately he gave me this incredible gift that as a side effect of something kind of tragic.

• 59:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow. When did he pass?

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Uh, about a year and a half ago.

• 59:26Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, almost two years ago. And it was interesting because you really find out who the people are around you when someone in your life passes because grief makes you boring and makes you unable to give anything. And you really find out the kind of people that can show up and tolerate you grieving really calls out your circle. Because it's, you realize like-

• 59:49Lewis Howes?

  The fun one, the entertaining one.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  Like, are you still my friend if I'm just staring at the wall like a zombie crying for six days? Like, am I still someone that you want to be, you know, be around? So that was every, the tectonic plates really shift in your, in your life when something like that happens. And I had just started dating the person I'm with and the way he handled it, I think is really what made me understand.

• 1:00:12Lewis Howes?

  What great partnership is and-

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  What he handled everything, like he just went into handle it mode. And I was like, okay. So I feel grateful that I think it's like the very, a lot of the damage that my dad, I feel like I got from him, him passing at the time that I had started dating, Miles gave Miles the opportunity to step up and show me who he was and kind of, it was, it was kind of kismet. It was sort of this weird divine thing where I was able to sort of, him passing is how Miles was able to step up.

• 1:00:44Lewis Howes?

  Passing the torch.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  I was able to kind of undo the cycle kind of thing through it. It was pretty surreal.

• 1:00:50Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you got to say everything you wanted to say to him?

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  No, that's okay.

• 1:00:54Lewis Howes?

  You feel at peace about everything or you wish you would have?

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  I'm so not this person, but I'm gonna be this person. I did do ayahuasca a couple of months. After he passed, like, six months, because the grief was just, I didn't know what to do with it.

• 1:01:07Lewis Howes?

  Strong, yeah.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that because I'm such a, "Keep moving to get out of your feelings anyway", I really didn't want to run from it, and for the grief to manifest in

• 1:01:18Lewis Howes?

  Other ways.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Other ways, you know, I didn't want that energy to come out, and like, the workaholism, or the codependence, or whatever. And I actually think what happened for me with ayahuasca, and why I think it's a helpful tool, is I didn't hallucinate on ayahuasca, I kind of realized that I was hallucinating every day. And on ayahuasca, I kind of saw things clearly. And I was able to take on a lot of the things that I thought were weaknesses for my dad as strength. And I was allowed to sort of accept the things in me that I got from him, and alchemize them into positives. You know, it's like, he was always working, and too much, and would... I was like, I was just trying to find ways to use what I thought were weaknesses of his, and make them strengths, and accept the parts of him that were in me.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  You know, "I don't want to be like my dad, I don't want to be like my mom", that's all we say. Maybe they had good things about them.

• 1:02:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Maybe we're just seeing them wrong, or maybe we're just so wrapped up in our own judgment and blame that we can't see it. You know, my dad had a very skeptical take on people. He always called everyone "liars, thieves, and worms", is what he would say. And it's so negative, but, I don't know, I, I, I found myself overcompensating, the pendulum swinging too hard, and trusting too much, and being...

• 1:02:32Lewis Howes?

  Going all in.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  All in, trusting everybody, "Yeah, sure, manage my money, sure, I'll come stay at my house, sure", and I just, I didn't have enough of that, sort of what I call, like, healthy skepticism, and healthy boundaries, and a healthy sense of, like, seeing red flags, you know? So I kind of, it helped me stop, like, divorcing myself from this story that my parents were so messed up, and I want to be totally different than them.

• 1:02:55Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you do things to make your dad proud?

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:03:00Lewis Howes?

  Still?

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Oh god, I, you're so good at this. I, when my dad passed, I had somewhat of an existential crisis, because I realized so much of my engine was to try to impress him.

• 1:03:11Lewis Howes?

  Just him?

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  When he passed, when he, I think more of my dad. My mom...

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Not so much. My mom was more like physical stuff, like body appearance stuff that I've had to sort of work through.

• 1:03:24Lewis Howes?

  You got a great combo.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  It's a whole other thing, yeah, real doozy, real one-two, they were made for each other. You know, my, and I realized, when my dad passed, I did have, felt like I was sort of in a free fall because I, I was like, do I even want to do comedy? Like, the person that I was trying to impress is gone. Like, I don't even know why I'm doing any of this.

• 1:03:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  And I, I canceled a bunch of projects I was doing, I checked out of a lot of things. I had to sort of completely revamp my priorities and figure out what I wanted.

• 1:03:53Lewis Howes?

  What's the priorities now?

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  The priorities now are, you know, for me, I, and this probably sounds gross, but I'm big on making money because it is freedom. And I didn't have that growing up. So I do try to make decisions based on it being lucrative enough to be able to help a family member out if they have an issue. You know, my family, a lot of my family members don't have health insurance and they didn't go to college. You know, so for me, it's, I take a lot of pride in being able to earn so that I can help people. You know, that just, I, I don't have cars and like, that's not my thing. And shoes and clearly clothes is not my thing. I like to be able to, you know, give people the ability to sleep at night because they're not stressing out about money, you know?

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  So I do make a lot of decisions based on earning.

• 1:04:42Lewis Howes?

  You're not making millions at the Comedy Store every week?

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  I really know that, that, fifteen dollars, the night you saw me, I made fifteen dollars. You know, so I worked for free a lot because stand-up is like bodybuilding. You're in the gym for a year making nothing and then you get your special or whatever. So I definitely, once my dad died, I got a little more mercenary about the way that I spent my time because I worked for free for so long and continued to until my dad passed. And then just really high quality, like, is this going to move the needle or not? You know, and after that, the first thing I did was with, was Roseanne, which did not, and as planned.

• 1:05:20Lewis Howes?

  God, isn't that crazy? It was so big. Like the launch and the show was so big.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:25Lewis Howes?

  And then one tweet ruins it all.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  I don't think it was one, I mean.

• 1:05:28Lewis Howes?

  It was other stuff.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  There was, I found out.

• 1:05:30Lewis Howes?

  It seemed like one tweet was what, ruined thousands of people.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Ostensibly, yes, exactly. It was one, the tweet that broke the camel's back, but there was definitely more before that I hadn't seen. And that was my mistake. I didn't follow her before and, you know, like my dad said, ask people questions. I didn't ask enough questions and I didn't do enough research and, you know, but I did. You know, at the time, it was like, you know, we're gonna reach a bunch of people that we wouldn't reach normally. And I think that Hollywood, we forget, we're in this echo chamber and we are talking to such a small number of people. And this was an opportunity to talk to more people, you know, so I think that since my dad passed, I've just tried to be a little more big picture in the things that I take. I don't take jobs anymore to impress people. I don't take jobs anymore because there's a celebrity involved who might,

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  this person might think is impressive. Like, I don't have those sticky motives anymore. It's like, do I wanna do it or not? And the answer is usually no. Like, am I gonna be proud of this? Am I gonna get paid in pride? Is a big thing for me now that my dad has passed.

• 1:06:28Lewis Howes?

  Paid and pride is the double combination.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  That's right. Am I proud of it? Am I paid by it?

• 1:06:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  That's sort of the way that I live now, cuz it used to be like, oh, like, whatever. I'm trying to think of a celebrity. So, and Julia Roberts is a producer on this. I'll be able to tell my dad that I'm working with Julia Roberts, you know.

• 1:06:46Lewis Howes?

  He'll love me more.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Totally. It used to be that stuff, you know, and it's kinda not like that anymore. It's like, would I do it for free?

• 1:06:53Lewis Howes?

  Right. Cuz you love it.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  But I wouldn't.

• 1:06:55Lewis Howes?

  But I wanna make a lot of money there.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  I don't, and it's, and it's, I just, I know that it's gauche to say that, but I think it's important to know your value and to know your worth.

• 1:07:03Lewis Howes?

  I think financial freedom is a powerful thing. Having resources, you can serve humanity in a bigger way. You can create the products you want, you can create the life you want, you can help the people around you. So, I don't think it's wrong. If you know yourself.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:15Lewis Howes?

  But you're not buying it to frickin' buy gaudy stuff and flashy. You're buying, you're.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  This shirt was forty-five dollars.

• 1:07:22Lewis Howes?

  I love it.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  How dare you?

• 1:07:23Lewis Howes?

  Forty-five as well. We're the same price.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  That is a very like fancy shirt.

• 1:07:27Lewis Howes?

  It's like a blank t-shirt, you know.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  In L.A., those are like, it's a big deal.

• 1:07:31Lewis Howes?

  It's like a, what they call like a basic tee, I think.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Basic tee.

• 1:07:34Lewis Howes?

  Forty-five bucks.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  It's not a V, so we're good.

• 1:07:36Lewis Howes?

  I like these.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  I feel like you're a deep V guy.

• 1:07:39Lewis Howes?

  Not a deep V, it's like a simple V.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  In Turkey, you're gonna have those Vs out.

• 1:07:43Lewis Howes?

  I'm not trying to hear like the deep ones. I mean, I do live in West Hollywood, there's lots of deep Vs, but it's just like a little, just a little classic.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little tiny V, slight suggestion of a V, just like a little, they have that clavicle peeking out, a little flirting. Ooh, hey, oh, uh-oh.

• 1:07:59Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, so pride and pain.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  It's like my bar is higher and lower, you know, and the bar is changing. So for me, it's like, you know, ten years ago, five years ago, I'd be like, I'm not gonna do a casino, like, that's selling out. I don't have that anymore. I used to be like, I was trying to impress people, I was so worried about like, if I post this ad on Instagram of me performing at a casino, what are comics gonna think? Like, I just don't have that anymore. I don't have the same kind of shame around my choices. It's just, I get to be a little more selfish, in a good way.

• 1:08:33Lewis Howes?

  I like it.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  A good kind of selfish.

• 1:08:34Lewis Howes?

  How do you deal with? I remember I talked to Steve Aoki when I had him on, and I was like, what's one of your biggest fears or concerns? Something like that question. He said, being irrelevant. And I think, I see a lot of people in Hollywood who like, they get the special and then like next year, and then they don't get picked up again for the next season. So they're hot, and then it's just they're chasing to be hot again.

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:57Lewis Howes?

  There's so much excitement and expectation or hope that it's gonna work out. How do you face that? Because you had Two Broke Girls, huge hit, you had your own show, which was like two or three seasons, I think, right? So maybe it didn't last as long as the show you were creating.

• 1:09:14Lewis Howes?

  How do you deal with that? Just aspect of Hollywood. Your career of hot, maybe not as hot.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:22Lewis Howes?

  Really hot, then okay.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, the vicissitudes of the in and out.

• 1:09:26Lewis Howes?

  How do you deal with it emotionally?

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:28Lewis Howes?

  And maybe you're better now because you're choosing things. You don't really care what's working in that way.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I guess to me, I just, I think you put something out when it's good. And that's how you stay relevant. No, it's like, I just, and not, I agree with Steve and I feel that a lot too. But I also know feelings aren't facts. And I know what feelings are valid and which aren't. So it's like, to just put stuff out to stay in the zeitgeist is, I just, I personally don't know. You know, a lot of comics, it takes a year to put a good special together in order to make good art. You know, you have to have a life and you have to make mistakes and you have to go out in the world. You know, so I found that when I was doing, you know, three shows and there, you know, it was this whole thing. And everyone thought of me as this big success. It was, I was in a writer's room all day and I wasn't having a life.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  And in order for art to imitate life, you have to have a life. And I didn't have one. And so I was limited in how good of an artist I could be. So now I believe you, you know, you make something and then you go off and you live more and you grow. And then you come back and make something else. And hopefully your work is actually evolving. If I just only kept putting things out, I'd be putting the same thing out. How could I improve? So I just am a big fan of going away, growing, restoring, living, coming back and elevating. You know, that's just my process. And, you know, and I also do lots of different things. So, you know, I'll go do a special and then I'll do a show and then I'll do a book. And then, you know, I'm also.

• 1:10:57Lewis Howes?

  A robot that's not.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  I'm made of robots. I just, I don't care if people are interested in me. I just want to be interested, you know.

• 1:11:08Lewis Howes?

  In what you're doing.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  Because otherwise it's not going to be good.

• 1:11:11Lewis Howes?

  This is what I like. I feel like we're siblings or something because.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Past life twins or something.

• 1:11:16Lewis Howes?

  I do a lot of things where my peers are like, why are you doing that?

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Lewis Howes?

  Like I wrote a book a year and a half ago about masculine vulnerability.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:11:23Lewis Howes?

  It's called The Mask of Masculinity.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 1:11:25Lewis Howes?

  And everyone was like, this is the worst business decision. Like you should do something else based on your last book and keep building upon it. And I was just like, this is what's going to be interesting to me.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:34Lewis Howes?

  And what I feel like is needed right now in the world.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Lewis Howes?

  That I'm proud of.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. You work so hard and you're not allowed to do like, I'm being on like, this one's for me and that one's for you and this, you know, this, I do that with jokes sometimes. It's like, there's a couple of jokes where I'm like, No one laughs. I know this never, this one's just for me. I like this one, you know? You, this is like, you know, it gets like 70% of the reaction to the other ones, but like, I like it, you know? I just, I think that, um, we're so afraid of being boring that we're boring ourselves, you know? It's, it's, I, I just, I don't know how to put out authentic work if it's, the engine is just to keep putting out work. Who's benefiting from that? I mean, there's just so much to choose from now. And making something for the sake of making it, I'm always big on why, what's the why on this? Why am I gonna give this thing a year of my life or whatever?

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  And, you know, like making the movie, for example, that was just an experiment. We made it in 15 days for, Really? Not even a million dollars. Oh, it was like, I mean, you can, there's the coverage, it's like, you know, it was very, I was editing and everything else, yeah. Totally, figuring out in post and fixing it in post and, you know, doing that weird little, I wanted to learn about neurology and I wanted to make a movie about, Great, I loved it. I just was like, I wanted to make the thing that I wish it had existed and no one else was gonna make, That's what I always say, I'm creating what I would want. I want a movie about neurology that I wish when I was 23, there was someone explaining to me oxytocin and dopamine and when you're in a relationship for a certain amount of time,

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  that you start producing less oxytocin and it's not personal and how cortisol works and how, you know, organizing things reduces cortisol, that's why I'm so obsessed with how everything, you know, I just, for me, it would have, I would have saved so much time with taking things personally and over pathologizing myself, you know? And other people. And I've been like, he's not mad, that's just cortisol. I'm gonna give him a couple of days for it to wear off and then we'll talk about it, you know? I guess I just wanted that to exist. And then as far as the book, like this went, I mean, couldn't have been, it came out the day of the Vegas shooting. So, there was some interesting

• 1:13:36Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  Cosmic thing where it was, you know, the universe is going, "We're making sure you're doing this for you and for the right reasons."

• 1:13:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  You know, because glory isn't always gonna be the reward. And then, I think when something comes out based on the success of it, then you decide if it was worth it. That's so unhealthy to me.

• 1:13:56Lewis Howes?

  It should be like, it's successful because I'm proud of the work I created. If one person reads it, or a million people buy it, right?

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  The reaction is the only thing that matters anymore, you know? And I found that I was chasing a reaction.

• 1:14:08Lewis Howes?

  So true.

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  Chasing a reception and chasing a feedback.

• 1:14:12Lewis Howes?

  An applause.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  And an applause, that's exactly right. And so, for me, I just wanna be able to look back and be proud of the choices that I made instead of like, I was just like on a hamster wheel trying to stay in people's timelines.

• 1:14:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  You know, and some of the people's career that I respect the most, they... You can, it's like when we're talking about relationships, you wanna miss someone a little bit.

• 1:14:32Lewis Howes?

  You do.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  You know, I think that right now we're in such like fatigue of people, you know? I just, I think that I also experienced being ubiquitous and having a

• 1:14:44Lewis Howes?

  You were everywhere.

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  And it didn't go great, you know? I'm, I think I'm good-

• 1:14:48Lewis Howes?

  Financially, maybe it went okay.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  It went great, but I just, I'm good in small doses. I also know that about myself.

• 1:14:54Lewis Howes?

  But you had what, you had like a, you were a comedy tour, you had the creator of Two Broke Girls, you had your own show, Whitney.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just was like, you know-

• 1:15:02Lewis Howes?

  You had like, a bunch of stuff happening at once.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I just think that, I don't know, I think that artists being ubiquitous is, you don't wanna over, you know, where you're welcome.

• 1:15:12Lewis Howes?

  What's your thoughts on someone like a Steve Harvey or Kevin Hart, who's all the plays, everywhere, all the time?

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  Those were such weird people to pair together.

• 1:15:22Lewis Howes?

  They're both comedians.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Wait, Steve Harvey and Kevin Hart.

• 1:15:25Lewis Howes?

  They're both comedians, right?

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, Kevin Hart, I think that he has, what he has done is amazing, and he does it so brilliantly because, I mean, it's like he has what, a movie come out a year?

• 1:15:37Lewis Howes?

  And a comedy special a year.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm not sick of him, I don't, I don't know why. I think he's just so endearing and he's so charismatic, and maybe he, you know, is the exception to the rule. But I don't feel like a fatigue on Kevin, you know?

• 1:15:50Lewis Howes?

  Because he's real and authentic, he's not forcing maybe.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know why I don't, I don't feel that. I'm not sure why.

• 1:15:56Lewis Howes?

  I think it's Steve Harvey because he's got like multiple shows at once.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh God, does he?

• 1:16:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, he's got like Family Feud, he's got Steve Harvey Show.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  I'm behind on Steve Harvey, I don't know why.

• 1:16:05Lewis Howes?

  He had the kids show, like the kids celebrity show.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:09Lewis Howes?

  America's Got Talent for kids or whatever.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:16:11Lewis Howes?

  He had like three or four shows at once, a radio show and...

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right, you're right, you're right. Okay, okay, that's fair. But you know, I, I just can't think that way. I just, in desperation to be relevant, I don't know. That feels like chasing, that just feels like a motive that's, you know, to me, I just try to be authentic and, and if I can, and honest with myself and to just try to like, keep up with everybody, which is what I used to do frankly. I just didn't, it didn't yield the kind of work that I really felt, felt like I could be proud of. Like I'd rather just be mindful about it, figure out what I want to put out in the world and put it out when it's ready.

• 1:16:45Lewis Howes?

  What's your biggest fear now then?

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  I mean, being irrelevant is up there. I just know it's an irrational fear, you know? Because for me, the fear of being irrelevant triggers codependency.

• 1:16:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  Rush culture.

• 1:16:59Lewis Howes?

  Needing something, yeah.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  Get it out now instead of when it's right, this chasing. Um, and then it doesn't get what, the reception you want and then you feel worse. And that, you know, so my biggest fear now, you know, being boring is one that I struggle with. That's a big one. Podcasts are helping me with that because I'm just like, is this interesting to anyone?

• 1:17:19Lewis Howes?

  You've got, I mean, you said the answer because I was always very insecure growing up because I didn't think I was interesting enough to people. And I would say stupid stuff that people would be like, whatever, it happened two or three times and it stuck in my mind that like people didn't want me around.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34Lewis Howes?

  Because I was just stupid or ignorant or whatever it was.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  Just youngest kid.

• 1:17:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I, in high school and in college, I really shifted to just be like, I'm going to ask amazing questions and just listen. I'm not going to try to say anything. I'm going to do the opposite. And someone told me later, they were like, you do a really good job of asking and listening. And

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  You're amazing.

• 1:17:54Lewis Howes?

  The most, thank you. And you said, the most interesting person is always the most interesting person. Just what you said. And I think it's something, why the podcast does well, because I just want to ask questions.

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  But you also ask questions that nobody else asks, and you're very thoughtful and mindful about it. And, and you also ask it and then let the person answer. There's a lot of people that go like, what scares you the most? Because what scares me the most? And you're like, you know what I mean? It's, you really are wait for the answer. And it's

• 1:18:24Lewis Howes?

  It's a practice, though.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  It's actually jarring, because I keep waiting for you to change the subject. I'm like, oh, he's really, I really have to answer this. It's actually kind of jarring.

• 1:18:34Lewis Howes?

  It's not a comedy podcast where everyone's interrupting each other.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:18:36Lewis Howes?

  What up, babe?

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  You're, I'm like, is someone gonna do a bit or prank me? Or, you know, you're really, you land, you stick the landing, you know, and it's

• 1:18:45Lewis Howes?

  It's uncomfortable sometimes.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  You really are, just silence is, is your tool of success. Like, you ask the question and you wait for the answer, which is unbelievably

• 1:18:55Lewis Howes?

  It's called an interview for a reason.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  I know, but it's, it's jarring, because I'm usually good at squirming out of things and not with you. But I think that that's a skill that I'm, I'm so happy for all your listeners, because if people just did that on dates, it would save them five years of bad, toxic relationships. If you actually just asked a question and listened to their answer, which is the advice my dad gave me, that seemed so simple.

• 1:19:17Lewis Howes?

  And not try to be interesting, or try to tell the joke all the time.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Have your reaction, the joke come in, you know, like, just to really listen and, and let people reveal themselves. And then, once they do.

• 1:19:28Lewis Howes?

  People want to be heard and seen. People always tell me, like, gosh, I don't even know what he said to me, but I talked to him for 20 minutes, and he's just like the most, the coolest guy.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:37Lewis Howes?

  He's just such a nice guy. I don't even know what he said, but I want to help him.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  And I spent so much time trying to get love indiscriminately from people whose love I had no business engaging with. You know, I spent so much time going like, I don't even know if you're the kind of quality of person I should be with, but I'm gonna get your love regardless. And it was always like, how to beguile people, how to charm people, how to get them to like you. And then you're stuck in this relationship with someone. And you're like, oh, God, why did I work so hard to get your approval? You're a nightmare. You know, so for me, it's I'm learning a lot from you because I don't do this enough in my hiring decisions. I don't get to know people enough in my hiring decisions.

• 1:20:11Lewis Howes?

  Hire slow.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  And I

• 1:20:12Lewis Howes?

  Fire fat.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  And I get to know their character defects and their song and dance.

• 1:20:16Lewis Howes?

  It's not easy.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  And I don't really ask mindful questions to find out what their character is.

• 1:20:21Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard as a business owner as well, when you need to fill a spot because you're doing too much of the work you don't want to do or you're suffering in a situation, you want to put someone there quickly.

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Lewis Howes?

  But that's why you should wait.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  And I don't ask enough smart questions and listen to the answer.

• 1:20:36Lewis Howes?

  You should let other people interview them first.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:20:40Lewis Howes?

  On your team.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:20:41Lewis Howes?

  I just brought on a new assistant, my other assistant had been with me for six years and she's transitioning to start a family. And so I had my assistant interview people first. Like, they need to meet your requirements. Then when she found a few people that she liked, they go to my COO, he interviews them, and he meets his standard.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:21:01Lewis Howes?

  And I gotta like this person, and they gotta fit into our culture, you know?

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  What's the biggest thing you look for in somebody?

• 1:21:07Lewis Howes?

  For me, it's attitude. I can't stand people that make excuses or they're don't have the willingness to figure it out.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:15Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  I'm big on, you can make mistakes, you just have to admit you made one.

• 1:21:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  If you can't admit you made it, then we're insanity.

• 1:21:20Lewis Howes?

  I wouldn't say

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  You can make a mistake a day if you want.

• 1:21:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  A huge mistake a day.

• 1:21:25Lewis Howes?

  Just don't do the same one over and over.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if you, correct, yeah, my bar is really low. What's wrong with that? No, but if you can't admit, I was wrong, it's like, that's my biggest sort of bottom line and red flag with you.

• 1:21:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. So attitude, effort. For me, I was always, I was never the best athlete, but I was always the MVP because of my effort.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:21:46Lewis Howes?

  And my willingness to have like clear vision and I was willing to get up early, work out, you know? I never drank my whole life.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:21:53Lewis Howes?

  Never had a sip of alcohol in high school, college. I was just like, I need a superpower.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:58Lewis Howes?

  And it's gonna be effort in my mindset.

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 1:22:00Lewis Howes?

  So effort, attitude, the desire and willingness to continue to learn. Someone that doesn't need to be, to hold their hand.

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  But how would someone be able to construe that to you in an interview?

• 1:22:12Lewis Howes?

  I would tell them this.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Oh, got it.

• 1:22:13Lewis Howes?

  I would say, this is what I'm looking for.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:22:15Lewis Howes?

  You know, I need effort, I need an attitude. So I would ask them questions like, what would you say? I don't know, I would just think of a question about, you know, if you made a big mistake and I got upset, how would you react?

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28Lewis Howes?

  Or you knew you messed up, how would you respond? Just kind of feel it out, if they're like, ah, well.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:22:32Lewis Howes?

  They're like, I would own it, I would take responsibility, and I would wanna see how I could get better, I would want coaching.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Lewis Howes?

  Cool.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  I set traps.

• 1:22:40Lewis Howes?

  You set traps.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  That's healthy. I do. And it's the same thing I've learned in relationships, and this probably sounds manipu- You have to sometimes, you know, you gotta test people. I think, you know, I, this, this, your listeners might think that I'm off the, the grid on this, but I, I go like, what was it like at your last job?

• 1:22:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  And if they say negative things about their boss, I can't hire you. The same way if you're dating someone and you say, how did your last relationship end? And they say, well, she's crazy, or he was, she was like... I already know that you blame people, and I already know that you, you know, the way you do anything is the way you do everything, and it's important to, like, when people reveal themselves to just-

• 1:23:15Lewis Howes?

  I think when you take ownership for everything in your life, and responsibility, that's when you're like, okay, I can trust this person. Maybe they're gonna mess up, maybe they're gonna make mistakes, but they're gonna own stuff, and they're willing to grow.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think we have to really remember that we are wired to have a common enemy. It's something we bond over, and I, I think it's really important to know how we're wired, and to just honor that. It's the same way, you know, people with dog breeds, they wanna say like, this dog was bred for this, but we can't... And then people go, breed doesn't matter, it all matters. You know, nature and nurture both matter, and I think it's important, we just have to understand part of our nature sometimes, and when you're dating someone new, and you both get to be mad at the person's ex, we're bonding over something, 'cause that's what we're wired to do.

• 1:23:59Lewis Howes?

  Something negative.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  Right. But then you go zoom out, and it's like, oh no, that's a red flag.

• 1:24:04Lewis Howes?

  It's not healthy. I wanna ask you a couple fun questions, but I wanna make sure people check out your book, I'm Fine and Other Lies. You guys can go get this book right now, since it was such a big hit the day it dropped.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  So wild.

• 1:24:17Lewis Howes?

  Really funny stuff, powerful about anxiety, overcoming all the challenges you've gone through.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  It's about addiction, it's about codependence, it's about eating disorders, it's about freezing your eggs, it's about, you know, sort of, a lot of sexual assault. It's about sort of everything we all have dealt with, and it was interesting because- To come out the day of a tragedy, at least to go like, you're gonna have to wait two weeks to promote it and we have to relaunch it. Like, all of, so much of the book is about not trying to control.

• 1:24:45Lewis Howes?

  That you're drowning.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  What you can't control.

• 1:24:47Lewis Howes?

  You're drowning.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  So for that to have happened, for me to not surrender and surf that wave, would have meant this book was for nothing.

• 1:24:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  You know, but yeah, and I have a new stand-up special.

• 1:24:59Lewis Howes?

  It's on Netflix, right?

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:25:02Lewis Howes?

  Homos are hilarious.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  It's called Can I Touch It? And it has a robot in it.

• 1:25:08Lewis Howes?

  Which I touched already.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  You did, you touched, yeah.

• 1:25:11Lewis Howes?

  I touched it.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:25:12Lewis Howes?

  You gave me permission.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  It's called Can I Touch It?

• 1:25:14Lewis Howes?

  Ask for permission.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  For many reasons. Because I talk a lot about all this sort of harassment stuff in the news. And, you know, in comedy, we're at this place where it's like, can I touch this? Can I talk about this? Can we talk about this? Can I say this? Can I, you know, have this opinion?

• 1:25:28Lewis Howes?

  I feel like it's sad that comedians are getting shamed for so much. In some ways, maybe there's some crossing of lines, but sometimes. But I feel like, we're just so wound up, like, everything is personal.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of self-righteous indignation and, you know, but comedy's always been a democracy. It's just that where people vote is changing.

• 1:25:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so you have to get involved with it.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:50Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise, they're not gonna laugh and show up.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's like, funny's funny and, you know, I don't think, there's words that I don't, there is a shift happening. I don't think that people should be silenced, but if you don't get a laugh, it...

• 1:26:02Lewis Howes?

  But I think it makes you be more creative.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  It's not because the audience is stupid. You know what I mean? Well, you guys are laughing because you're PC. It's like, no, I always give the audience the benefit of the doubt. And the audience is always right, you know? And I think that because taste is changing, and like what you just said, what's funny is changing.

• 1:26:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  You know, because what we see in the news all the time, it's so brutal that I think what people want to see on their night off is changing.

• 1:26:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Because it used to be like... We make fun of the president and we say the things no one can say like, we hear about that all day, every day now with Twitter and this, we're constantly seeing negativity.

• 1:26:39Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  All day in the news.

• 1:26:41Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  You know, so I think what people want to see on their night off when they're paying eighty bucks is just changing.

• 1:26:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  And that's okay.

• 1:26:47Lewis Howes?

  Eighty bucks a seat?

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, look.

• 1:26:49Lewis Howes?

  I'm in the wrong business.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what.

• 1:26:52Lewis Howes?

  Well, not when you saw me, no, that was.

• 1:26:54Speaker 01

  But, uh, but yeah, so I, I think it's just, to me and, and your listeners are obviously all about thriving and success. And I just, it's, you've got, you cannot stick to the thing that worked a year ago.

• 1:27:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  If it doesn't work anymore.

• 1:27:07Lewis Howes?

  In your relationship and your business.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  In anything.

• 1:27:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  How many times are you gonna stub your toe on the table before you either move the table or go around the table?

• 1:27:13Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  You know, what, it's, it's, you know, twelve step one-on-one. God help me to accept the things I cannot change it, you know, and what can you change? What can't you change? And then go from there.

• 1:27:25Lewis Howes?

  I like it.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  You know, because right now we're just going like, this thing is, the thing I did five years ago isn't working.

• 1:27:31Lewis Howes?

  It's all off.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:32Lewis Howes?

  Gotta grow. When's the special out?

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Uh, July thirtieth.

• 1:27:35Lewis Howes?

  July thirtieth?

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:36Lewis Howes?

  Netflix?

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  Netflix.

• 1:27:38Lewis Howes?

  Watch it, post it, share it on Instagram stories when you're watching it, tag you. It's gonna be amazing. The trailers are incredible on your Instagram right now.

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  Uh, I feel like I'd half said that serenity prayer. I was like, do I even say, I'm assuming everybody knows that for some reason. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, control the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

• 1:27:59Lewis Howes?

  Uh, is there anything else we can, you're, you're hilarious on Instagram.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks.

• 1:28:03Lewis Howes?

  Uh, Whitney Cummings on Instagram. They can see you on tour.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:07Lewis Howes?

  In L.A.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  I'm not touring for a while. It's, you know, kind of my stand-up special. I'm working on a new show. We'll see what happens with it, but I'll start touring soon.

• 1:28:14Lewis Howes?

  Whitney two point O is on the new show?

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I've got a robot that I'm gonna start sending out for me.

• 1:28:19Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. I love it. I want to acknowledge you for Mama Whitney, because you have an amazing heart.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so nice.

• 1:28:26Lewis Howes?

  You really do have an amazing heart, and I think that is a thing that people recognize the most about you. Obviously, you're extremely creative, talented.

• 1:28:37Lewis Howes?

  Hilarious, all these things. And you tell incredible stories, but you have a powerful heart. Because you continue to desire to get better. And you want to improve. And I think that's what's really special about you. So I acknowledge you for your heart.

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:28:52Lewis Howes?

  So my final question, if there's a pause, is what's your definition of? I actually have two final questions. This one is, um, so maybe it'll pause for a second. This one is called the three truths. So I want to imagine that you are giving the last performance stand-up of your life. And the whole world is watching. Just imagine it's fifty, a hundred years from now, you still have all your capabilities of communication. But it's you're like, all right, this is my last farewell tour. And eventually, you know, soon after, you're gonna die. But you've created everything you want to create, all the specials, books, robots, whatever you want to do in the future, right?

• 1:29:37Lewis Howes?

  But you have one last tour. And one last performance. And you do this amazing show, people are laughing, they're crying, they're enjoying, whatever you want it to be. But at the end, you get to leave people with three things you know to be true about your life. And the lessons you would leave behind. It's what I like to call the three truths. That this is all people would have to kind of remember you by, these three lessons. What would you say are yours?

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  And I say them and they get, believe them. Like it works, whatever I say works.

• 1:30:09Lewis Howes?

  You say it and this is your truth. This is like, you know, a lesson that's for me is like, when I always live in gratitude, I live a better day. Like I want to, I want to leave that behind for you as like a truth, a lesson.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  When I'm in gratitude, that would be like, yours would be that?

• 1:30:23Lewis Howes?

  I'm just making something up, yeah. Or like, you know, the health is the most important thing in your life. That's a truth. So just, give me examples. What are your truths, though? I don't want to make something up for you. I'm saying from what you think would be all the lessons you've learned up to now. Imagine it's the last performance you get to give. But the world is watching.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  Is it, is the, are these more emotional or these more?

• 1:30:47Lewis Howes?

  Any truth you want it to be. For me, you know, it can be lessons of life. Not like when you see a dog bite or something, but like a lesson that you would want to leave behind. This is all people would have to remember you by. What would you want to leave behind as like these truths, these lessons?

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  This is a nightmare question. This is hard. Can I have an example of one that you've liked?

• 1:31:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, someone said, Sam Harris, who's like, always tell the truth. He's like, it solves so many problems when you tell the truth. It might be hard.

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  Totally disagree.

• 1:31:23Lewis Howes?

  He said it might be hard.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  Sometimes you have to lie to people to get them to leave you alone.

• 1:31:26Lewis Howes?

  Okay, there you go. That can be your truth.

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  No, well, some people lie, you know, I'm such a big fan of Sam Harris, I'm totally joking.

• 1:31:35Lewis Howes?

  That was one of his truths.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  I need to take that advice, yeah. Well, because I'm always like, sorry, I can't make it today. I can, but I'm not going to, yeah.

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm so, because I really need guidance to know how to, you know, I really need like walls to operate in because I get too...

• 1:31:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, imagine it's your last day, you've created everything you want to create in the world. TV, movies, whatever, the family you want, but you've got to take it all with you. So no one has access to any of the work you have anymore. So they don't have your content anymore. Social media is all gone. But you get to write down three things to be true, you get to say a message in front of an audience that you can leave behind and this is all they have. These lessons to live by. Kind of your commandments.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  I should have prepared for this. I know everyone else does.

• 1:32:26Lewis Howes?

  No, they don't.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Really? It always goes like this?

• 1:32:28Lewis Howes?

  It's better or good.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Because you're dealing with a bunch of perfectionists that want to get it right. I want to win this one.

• 1:32:33Lewis Howes?

  It's better or good.

• 1:32:34Speaker 01

  I want to beat Sam Harris.

• 1:32:35Lewis Howes?

  It's better with what's on your mind right now or what's on your heart is even better?

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  It's tricky. Like this is, now you're getting an insight into the part of my brain I'm not proud of because I get really indecisive and I get really like dichotomous in my thinking because like my first instinct was you don't owe anyone anything and no one owes you anything. Like that's something that really helps me when I walk through the world because I'm like, nobody owes me anything, nobody owes me anything when my expectations start getting too high. But at the same time, I want to say like... Kindness fixes everything and forgiveness fixes everything. So, but then I'm like, but you don't owe, like, do those, do those contradict each other? Am I a hypocrite?

• 1:33:15Lewis Howes?

  Is that a truth or no?

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:33:16Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  None of these are good yet.

• 1:33:19Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Number one, what would you say? What's something that you could be proud of leave behind as a truth?

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  But am I trying to like fix problems? Am I trying to fix the world? I'm trying to make, what's, what am I?

• 1:33:31Lewis Howes?

  Just your final message. You don't have to fix anything.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  I wouldn't do the show, how much am I getting paid for the show? If I only have one show left, I wouldn't show up. I wouldn't go.

• 1:33:42Lewis Howes?

  It's all good, what's just, you know, what are you feeling right now? It doesn't have to be, you'd always tell me later, hey, I would add this other truth. It's okay if you need like seven truths or 20. But if you're just three things that you feel like in the last few years that you're like, yeah, those are good lessons. I'd want to share that.

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  If you've met more than two assholes in one day, maybe you're the asshole.

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  I know it sounds like a quote, it sounds like a ism. It's just like, you have more power than you think in terms of, you know, maybe it's you. Cause I think, you know, blame is, blame is such a drug and, you know, and it's tricky because we're seekers and we're people that are constantly proving ourselves. But it really made me feel power, a power I didn't have. When someone's like, maybe it's, when something's your fault, at least I can do something about it. There's something liberating in it being your fault. I love when things are my fault. I love when I'm wrong. Cause at least I can fix it.

• 1:34:40Lewis Howes?

  You're in control.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  When someone else is wrong, there's something I can do. You know?

• 1:34:43Lewis Howes?

  Yell at them, shame them.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  Totally, there's nothing you can do, manipulate them, you know, scream at them and then you're in insanity, you know? So I think that, um, I think they'd probably be quotes that you've heard from other people that worked for me.

• 1:34:56Lewis Howes?

  That's fine.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. That helped me a lot. So I know that to be true.

• 1:35:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay, that's one.

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  This is gonna sound like me being, having an agenda. And this is a quote, there's people, like 50 people have said it and nobody knows who actually said it. It's assigned to like 50 people. But I do think we are so disconnected from the other species on our planet. It just helps, like, the way we treat animals does, is our legacy. Cause animals are just what's, have less power than us. So the way we treat our animals is the way we treat our women, the way we treat our children, the way we treat anyone who's more. It's how we teach the next generation to abuse their power. So I think that that is something that, you know, just the way we treat our women, children and animals is who we are.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  Ultimately, I don't know why, I don't know, this comedy show's gonna be awful. Uh, my last show is gonna be terrible.

• 1:35:55Lewis Howes?

  You've already made people laugh now.

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be bombing.

• 1:35:57Lewis Howes?

  They just wanna hear a message.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  Like, I think it's, you know, mistreating people doesn't make you powerful. You know, mistreating something with less power isn't power.

• 1:36:08Lewis Howes?

  I love the quote, or the meme, it's like, my father always taught me to treat the janitor just the same as the CEO. Where it's like, always treat people with like, equal kindness.

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, the way you treat other people is a reflection of how you feel about yourself, you know? And I think that when you disrespect other people, you're just ruining your reputation, you're hurting yourself. So I think that that's something that we don't understand, or something that maybe there's a little bit of a, um, dissonance on.

• 1:36:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  The way you treat other people is very much a reflection of who you are and how you feel about yourself. Are you choosing to toxify your environment, or are you choosing to purify your environment?

• 1:36:46Lewis Howes?

  That's probably, okay, that's two. Your final message to the world?

• 1:36:50Speaker 01

  I don't even like that last one.

• 1:36:52Lewis Howes?

  I like it. How you treat other people is a reflection of you?

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's so obvious.

• 1:36:58Lewis Howes?

  Truths can be simple. They can be simple, doesn't have to be something like, I think simple is profound.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:06Lewis Howes?

  That's be one of my truths.

• 1:37:08Speaker 01

  That's a good one, okay, that's a really good one.

• 1:37:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:37:11Lewis Howes?

  Less is more.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know what to do. This is so hard, what's another good one?

• 1:37:16Lewis Howes?

  What's in your heart right now?

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  Just pure confusion.

• 1:37:20Lewis Howes?

  You're analyzing, everybody can be good.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  I know. I just want it to be good, yeah.

• 1:37:23Lewis Howes?

  Am I gonna win this?

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:25Lewis Howes?

  But if you had a lesson that you could share with your heart? A lesson from your relationship, maybe. Relationship with your parents, relationship with your fiance. What's a lesson?

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  I'm too analytical for this question because I don't, I don't like, like truisms. Like, I don't like, like-

• 1:37:44Lewis Howes?

  A lesson?

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  Love yourself. I don't like that. We talked about this because it's like-

• 1:37:49Lewis Howes?

  This is gonna be the comedy special one day.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  This is a nightmare.

• 1:37:51Lewis Howes?

  A guy asked me about what my three truths are and I couldn't figure out-

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  And I jumped out the window. I mean, I'm gonna, because I don't like things that if there's even one way to disprove it, debunk it.

• 1:38:01Lewis Howes?

  It's not true.

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  I don't like it. I just go, well, if it's not true once, it's not true.

• 1:38:05Lewis Howes?

  Then a lesson.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a better one.

• 1:38:07Lewis Howes?

  A good lesson, then.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  I feel bad about that love yourself thing.

• 1:38:11Lewis Howes?

  No, it's alright.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  I think people are using the self-love thing to not take responsibility for their behavior, but I'm gonna love myself. It's like, you still should process your consequences and ramifications. There is this new radical self-love thing that is like giving people permission to be jerks.

• 1:38:26Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm, or unhealthy.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna just love myself. I drink four glasses of wine a day, but I love myself. And you're like, no, that's-

• 1:38:34Lewis Howes?

  There's consequences to loving yourself that way.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  It doesn't mean radically just be irresponsible and don't take inventory of your behavior. Like, look at the ruckus you're causing around you and the damage you're doing as well, if so. We don't forgive others because they deserve forgiveness. We forgive others because we deserve peace. That's a good one. That's a good one.

• 1:38:58Lewis Howes?

  That might be the most powerful one. No one's ever said that.

• 1:39:00Speaker 01

  That's the best one. That is a banger.

• 1:39:02Lewis Howes?

  Because-

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  It's a banger.

• 1:39:03Lewis Howes?

  Resentment is a disease.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, that's correct. It crystallizes in your heart.

• 1:39:08Lewis Howes?

  Rap poison.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  And that's right.

• 1:39:09Lewis Howes?

  You're drinking and you're trying to give to someone else.

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  Yes, and it just calcifies and you project it all over the place.

• 1:39:16Lewis Howes?

  You create an energetic cancer in the world.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I like this one. So you won with that, what?

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  I agree. Sam, take that. I, this is so, this is a good one and I don't think I'm gonna phrase it eloquently first, but I do like it of just, and I'm sure someone said it in some way, but just that it's a big thing we say in program is just like, you're not your story. You're not the story you wrote about yourself and-

• 1:39:43Lewis Howes?

  Or you can be a news, sorry, I interrupted you there.

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  No, please.

• 1:39:46Lewis Howes?

  You can be a news story.

• 1:39:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:48Lewis Howes?

  You can be the news story.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:50Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:39:51Lewis Howes?

  You're not the old story, but you can create a new story.

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  You cast yourself in the wrong movie. Yeah, it's just, you know, and I think that like- Most of your thoughts are science fiction. I mean, that's the other thing. Like, a lot of your thoughts and beliefs just aren't true. And that doesn't mean you're an idiot, that doesn't mean you're stupid. It's just, that person's mad at me, that person doesn't like me, like, they're not thinking about you at all, in fact. They don't care. They're in their own insecurity. They're worried if you like them. They're obsessed about their selfie, or, you know, whatever. You know, we're obsessed about what other people think about us till we realize they're just not thinking about us at all. Good news, bad news. So I think that, like, a lot of our beliefs being science fiction is really helpful to me. A lot of the things that I, I, I think that's, a lot of people don't like that because they're like, "What do you mean?

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  You're calling me dumb?" Or, you know, it's just, it's, no, that's a relief. A lot of the things that are in your head, the voices in your head, aren't yours.

• 1:40:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you can let go of it.

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. They're voices that developed when you were a kid, under different circumstances.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  Is that two?

• 1:40:49Lewis Howes?

  That's three.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Are you sure?

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  Bomb this part.

• 1:40:53Lewis Howes?

  Forgive us one?

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 1:40:56Lewis Howes?

  This one? That you just said, the story?

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  There's no difference between the way you treat other people.

• 1:41:00Lewis Howes?

  And the story.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  And then you're not, your story?

• 1:41:03Lewis Howes?

  I like these three a lot. I don't think I've ever heard those three. It's a combination. I don't even know if I've heard two of the three, I don't think I've heard, so...

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  He's a liar.

• 1:41:11Lewis Howes?

  I'm not.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  It's, I, I do-

• 1:41:13Lewis Howes?

  I can't remember-

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:14Lewis Howes?

  This kind of, if it happened.

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:17Lewis Howes?

  They're very powerful.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  Your inner monologue's just not true. That's kind of helpful sometimes.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 1:41:25Lewis Howes?

  You got like, seven and a half in here, I like it, yeah.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, that was like, solid, solid C minus.

• 1:41:30Lewis Howes?

  This is all good.

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  I feel like-

• 1:41:32Lewis Howes?

  It's not a competition.

• 1:41:34Speaker 01

  No, it is.

• 1:41:36Lewis Howes?

  Life's a game.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  I'm looking at this one-

• 1:41:37Lewis Howes?

  I'm trying to win.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  And I'm like, okay, I'm failing this. But, uh-

• 1:41:41Lewis Howes?

  These are perfect. I think they're beautiful.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  Maybe this is, this is so stupid, but I think it's an artist, like, mistakes sometimes are the best part of anything. Except for this section of this. It's just, mistakes are always where the magic is in everything, you know? I think that's, that's, has taken me a long time to learn.

• 1:41:57Lewis Howes?

  I love it.

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:41:58Lewis Howes?

  This is amazing. I really acknowledge you for stating this. Through the construction, through the

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh.

• 1:42:05Lewis Howes?

  The analytical brain, through

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  I know, that was paralyzing.

• 1:42:08Lewis Howes?

  The robot deformity.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 1:42:10Lewis Howes?

  Everything is happening. But I really am glad that I got to know you because I've just seen you on your show or special and at the Comedy Store once or twice. But getting to know your heart is really inspiring. So I'm really glad we connected right now in this moment in time. And I hope we get to do more stuff and I can support you in any way. Just let me know.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  If anything, look, your listeners, I have no idea what their if their what their takeaway from this is. But if anything, it's like, I'm not I'm looking at your wall of all these people who like are experts at success and branding and I'm not. I'm a, if anything, you, I'm a big mess and I have success. You can be a mess and have success. Like, I'm looking at your wall and it's all these like overachieving, like A plus, like incredible people. I make mistakes and I'm an addict and I had eating disorders and I had a you know, and I'm still, I have not fixed everything about me and I still have success. You know? So maybe that's a good takeaway. You can just be a train wreck and still have success.

• 1:43:16Lewis Howes?

  Live in the world.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  You don't have to be like you, like you don't have to have read every single book. You don't have to like, you know, have be giving inspirational seminars in order to have success.

• 1:43:28Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  You know, maybe that's imperfection is also okay.

• 1:43:33Lewis Howes?

  It's perfect.

• 1:43:34Speaker 01

  You know? God, this wall is really intense. It's like all professional healers.

• 1:43:40Lewis Howes?

  I know, you know some of these healers?

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know a lot of these people. You don't have to meditate every day to be a success. I'm about to totally ruin. I'm about to I'm about to debunk everything. You don't have to have rituals. You don't have to write in a journal.

• 1:43:53Lewis Howes?

  You don't have to wake up at five.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  You don't have to wake up at five. You don't have to work out. You don't have to be keto. Or paleo.

• 1:44:00Lewis Howes?

  Do you?

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  I don't even know what I'm saying. Like, you don't have to do any of that stuff. You don't have to take vitamins every... You can still be successful even if you're not...

• 1:44:08Lewis Howes?

  Perfect.

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, doing all the things that...

• 1:44:11Lewis Howes?

  Life hacking all the time.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, whatever.

• 1:44:15Lewis Howes?

  It's good.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  You can be a hot mess.

• 1:44:17Lewis Howes?

  I love it. I gotta come to your show. You do every week down here at the Comedy Store?

• 1:44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm there a couple nights a week.

• 1:44:23Lewis Howes?

  I gotta come more often then. You've inspired me to wanna come out more, so I'm gonna come out and bug you and heckle at you.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes I cancel, sometimes I flake, sometimes I'm not, you know, I'm imperfect. Like, I'm, you know, flaming mess.

• 1:44:37Lewis Howes?

  I love it. This is my, this is my final question for you, for this interview, and I hope I do more with you in the future. But the final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:44:46Speaker 01

  My definition of greatness is, uh... I don't know, I'm pretty hard, I'm pretty rough about this. It's excellence and authenticity in the same, do you know what I mean?

• 1:44:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:58Speaker 01

  If you're someone else's version of great, that's kind of whoops. I think, and this is maybe because I'm a comic and an artist, and I think it's greatness is like, at least in what I do in my personal life, I don't even think I can really speak to that. Because I think greatness in your personal life is more about your behavior instead of other people's behavior. You know, what you don't do instead of what you do do. Greatness is about shutting your mouth and not saying that thing, or not giving that criticism, or not losing your temper. Like, greatness is more about being stoic. But I think for what I do for a living professionally, it's about making sure someone, before they see you and after they see you, they're changed in some way.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Leaving some kind of impact, like making them think differently, see something differently, laugh at something they never thought was funny. It's, at least it was what I do. The movie I made, if you don't leave that movie knowing more about neurology than you did, then I've failed. There's no greatness in that. If you leave a comedy show that I did knowing less or not having tweaked your perception of something, I've failed. There's no greatness there. So I think it's like greatness and what I do is just leaving an imprint on somebody in some real way. You know, otherwise, what are you doing? You're just wasting someone's time. It's just masturbatory. But that's really specific. Yeah.

• 1:46:19Lewis Howes?

  I like it.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  Changing someone's mind about something, I guess.

• 1:46:23Lewis Howes?

  I think that's powerful. That's what we try to do here. And that's what I told you I wanted to do with this interview. I was like, I want people to leave better than this, that they feel inspired to make an impact. They want to take an action, think differently, share with a friend, help someone.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  Because I just get a little bit, I get stuck in that, and sorry, now I'm rambling. I get a little bit stuck in the whole, like, affect people and because that sometimes goes into my codependence. It's not your job to fix people, or, you know, that's, or.

• 1:46:46Lewis Howes?

  Not fix, but.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's their job to fix themselves. Like greatness isn't martyrdom. You know, you don't go around and martyr yourself on people, rescue people emotionally, you know, care take people. Because so that's when I get a little bit like, oh, wait a second. Greatness is staying in your lane and fixing yourself because you're the best way to, it's to lead by example, you know? So that's why I'm kind of like tripping up on it.

• 1:47:08Lewis Howes?

  It's also like, what I'm hearing you say is like creating a piece of art through your work that empowers people to think in a way to improve their life.

• 1:47:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and have conversations they wouldn't have normally, or change the way that they think for the better, or, you know, change their mind about something. Or even if it's as simple as like, oh, women are funny. Oh, even if it's that simple, even if I'm setting an example, or a woman going like, oh, maybe I can do that thing I was scared of doing. I think leading by example is important, so I think greatness starts with, you know, making yourself, instead of focusing on how can I help other people, like, we'll get your [BLEEP] together, and then we'll talk about what you can do for other people, but you're, you know.

• 1:47:45Lewis Howes?

  You're a mess.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  Cleaning up, clean up your mess, and then we'll talk about, you know? So I try to sort of stay in that space. I also think there's just like a simple greatness, like, would I make a better decision today than I would yesterday? I think also there's that. We get so, and you're such a like big picture healer, that I think sometimes there's this pressure to like do something. So sometimes greatness is like, can be tiny and incremental.

• 1:48:09Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  And just like, today I didn't text that person back. That can be greatness. Because sometimes that's the hard, you know?

• 1:48:20Lewis Howes?

  Small acts every single day are great.

• 1:48:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I think to me, I get so

• 1:48:24Lewis Howes?

  Nice smiling at someone on the street.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  That's why I'm getting so daunted because I'm like greatness, like oh shit, like this is such a big, you know, I think greatness can be really tiny.

• 1:48:35Lewis Howes?

  This is why, you know, my definition used to be something like go be the best in the world at what you're gonna do. But then it shifted to discover your unique talents, pursue your dreams that you enjoy, and make an impact on people along the way.

• 1:48:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:48Lewis Howes?

  While you're pursuing your thing you love.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:50Lewis Howes?

  For me, it's like, if there's nowhere in there, it's like be number one in the world and make a billion dollars, or be so successful that everyone loves you, it's do the thing you love.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:59Lewis Howes?

  And help people along the way.

• 1:49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:00Lewis Howes?

  By being positive.

• 1:49:01Speaker 01

  Cause it's, yeah, cause it's, I think that like it's, we, I think always forget about the lead by example thing. It's like people can look to you and go, I might not have a podcast and be a brand like him, but I'm a teacher and if I just teach these five kids, you know, it's like

• 1:49:14Lewis Howes?

  Impact these people.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I like that. Like, what's your version of greatness?

• 1:49:19Lewis Howes?

  That's it, that's it.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  God, these questions are really stressing me out and I'm stressed.

• 1:49:24Lewis Howes?

  Oh, good. Well, this is the last question, so I appreciate it. Again, thank you for your heart. I really, I don't know, I really like you, hanging out with you. I don't wanna say I like you. I don't think I've ever told someone I like, I really like you.

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  Does he do this all the time?

• 1:49:37Lewis Howes?

  I feel weird that I'm saying, I feel weird that I'm saying I like you, but I just think

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 1:49:42Lewis Howes?

  I just, I don't know, I just enjoy the level of work that you've done on yourself and continue to do, and acknowledging of it and processing constantly. I think it's rare to see someone in your position, do this much work.

• 1:49:56Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:49:56Lewis Howes?

  And talk about it openly and be like proud of it and not shaming yourself, so.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, I think we all like, I don't know, for me, I like to lead with my failures and mistakes and flaws and, because I think there's right now, there's just this perfectionism culture and this brag about only your wins and don't talk about any of your losses culture. And I just, I think it's, it's just, it's no good. But I appreciate that you

• 1:50:19Lewis Howes?

  Well, you're amazing.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  Say that.

• 1:50:20Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate you being here.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  Thanks, I hope that was

• 1:50:23Lewis Howes?

  Perfectly imperfect.

• 1:50:30Lewis Howes?

  A big thank you, my friend, for being here and listening to this episode. If you enjoyed this, you know what to do. Spread the love. Send a text to one friend. I don't care if you're using WhatsApp, or you're DMing a friend, or you text them, Facebook Messenger. Just message one friend this link. LewisHowes.com/832. Or take the link on the podcast app where you're listening to this, on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you're listening to this. Take the link and message one friend. Be a champion, be a hero, be a leader, an inspiring person in someone's life today by sending them this interview and recommending them check it out. Whitney has had an incredible life experience.

• 1:51:13Lewis Howes?

  So many things she's been up to, so many mistakes and failures and lessons and successes that you can learn from and your friends can learn from too. So make sure to share that out with your friends. And do me a favor and leave a review. I don't care if you leave one star, three star, or go five stars like most people do, but just write your thoughts. I want to hear your thoughts. I want to hear how I can make this better. I want to hear if you enjoyed this interview or not, what you gained from Whitney and what you'd like to learn more of. So share your thoughts, write it down. We share this with our audience. We share with our team and it really helps us continue to spread the message of greatness. In the beginning of here, we had a quote, we had a quote from Mary Tyler Moore who said, "Take chances, make mistakes. That's how you grow.

• 1:51:56Lewis Howes?

  Pain nourishes your courage and you have to fail in order to practice being brave." I hope you're doing something that scares you today, every single day. I hope you're doing something that cultivates your courage, that allows you to be brave. It's hard to be brave if you're just sitting on the couch and not doing anything that scares you, if you're not taking any risks. But you become more brave, you build the muscle of bravery when you take risks and chances and do things that risk being embarrassed, that risk failure, that risk being judged. Put yourself out there. Continue to step into who you were born to be. And as always, I love you. You know what time it is.

• 1:52:39Lewis Howes?

  It's time to go out there and do something great.