72 Jason SurfrApp: How to Be a Creative Hustler and Make Money

Jason SurfrApp (formerly Jason Headsets.com... formerly Jason Sadler) and Lewis Howes discuss creative hustle and what it takes to make money in the new media landscape. To learn more and get resources from the show, visit lewishowes.com/72 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 72 with Jason Surfer App.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Hey, what is up, greats? Thanks so much for tuning in with me today. I'm down in humid and rainy Alabama this week, training hard and getting ready to leave for Brazil in a few days to go compete against the Brazilian national team and another professional team down in Brazil before we head to Uruguay to compete in the Pan American Championships with Team USA and Team Handball. So I'm very excited. I've been training hard all week, getting my sprinter legs back underneath me as we've been running it nonstop for the last few days. So it's been a great journey, feeling, feeling strong,

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  feeling like at least the training I did in the last month to get ready for this has given me a good base and I'm able to keep up. It's just the last 10, 15 minutes of practice when we're sprinting so much that my, my heart gets a little winded, but it's all good stuff and I'm very pumped for the journey ahead and every step along the way. And I've got a very special interview today. It's with a friend of mine, Jason Sadler, who has changed his name twice for around $50,000 each time, was formerly Jason Sadler, now Jason Surfer App and was jasonheadsets.com a year ago.

• 1:53Lewis Howes?

  And this is all about learning how to create income and build a business around your creativity. Now, we all have ideas that we think, oh, this is the next million dollar idea. But how many of us actually have the guts and the launch strategy and the execution to go follow through and make that money with that idea? Now Jason's had lots of ideas. Some have worked really well and generated over a million dollars in sales and others haven't done as well. But the one thing that I really like about Jason is that he's not afraid to go after and hustle for his ideas, to make business, to build a business around his ideas. And it's very cool what he's done.

• 2:36Lewis Howes?

  He's got a new book out called Creativity for Sale. And it's how I made a million dollars wearing T-shirts. And how you can turn your passion into profit too. So we dive deep into the book and kind of how he built his business around his ideas. And how he got creative, he sold, I think, 204 pages in his book. He sold to different sponsors. And he made money off his book before he even wrote a word. Based on selling sponsorships in the book. And he used to wear T-shirts for people and get paid on that. He's done some really creative things. So I think this is going to open your mind and share, show you the possibility of what you can create for yourself.

• 3:18Lewis Howes?

  If you're in a job, maybe that you don't like, or you're not making the money that you wish you would be making. This is an opportunity to learn how someone else has been really successful. Being creative and turning his creativity into profits. So stick around and really dive into this episode because I think you could get a lot out of it. Now let's go ahead and dive into today's lesson with the one and only Jason Surfer App.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  What is up everyone? Thanks again so much for checking out the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm your host, Lewis Howes, and I've got a buddy of mine, Jason Surfer App, formerly known as JasonHeadsets.com, formerly known as Jason Sadler on. What's up, my man?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Hey, how's it going, Lou? I feel like I'm probably the only person you ever have to introduce the multiple names.

• 4:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes, it's good. It's kind of like people when they have like 14 middle and last names and they're like something, something of a third, you know, whatever.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  But you created this on your own, you weren't given this. You actually made money doing that, changing your last name, which we'll talk about here in a second. But I'm excited to dive into this interview with you because you've basically, since I've known you for like, what, five years now, I think. Everything I've known about you has been like how to hustle to make a living. And how to be creative, like a creative hustler to make a living and to do everything. Completely opposite of the traditional way of making money. And you basically, it sounds like if you wrote a hundred different crazy ways to make money that you don't think is possible and you threw it on a dartboard or pin the donkey, a tail on the donkey board or something and you just go and you like throw a dart at it. That's what you did.

• 5:11Lewis Howes?

  And you've done a number of crazy things from first off, doing a million in sales with I wear your shirt.com. Isn't that correct?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 5:20Lewis Howes?

  And tell me a little bit about what that was briefly. I'm sure some people know about the story, but kind of why you did that? And what you created from it and what you learned from that experience?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I had this idea while I co-owned a web design company in 2008 that, you know, our, our clients who, you know, were companies of all shapes and sizes wanted to have their story told and, you know, do marketing. And social media was really kind of coming on the scene. And so I saw kind of a gap in between the two where there just, there could be an opportunity for someone to represent these companies and, and have a, an audience or a community to share these companies with. So, you know, I just, just said, hey, I'll put on a different T-shirt every day and I'll promote these companies and, you know, it definitely didn't start off with the extreme, you know, revenue that I had hoped for, especially because I, you know, launched the first calendar at a dollar per day, right?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  So the first dollar, then $2. I mean, you know, it makes 66 grand in the first year, but it takes, like you said, a lot of hustle to get there. But yeah, over the years, I mean, I was able to grow the company, have employees who were shirt wearers. We worked with over 1,600 brands, a lot of Fortune 500 companies, which was really cool. And, and I wear your shirt literally became a line item for a lot of big agencies to say, all right, you know, do we do a big, you know, banner ad buy or do we pay these people to wear T-shirts? I mean, we launched a cracker for Pepperidge Farm, you know, we were their ad campaign, right? So it's just got to do a lot of really cool stuff and, and I learned a lot about kind of myself and entrepreneurship. And that was my first big try at it, right? I mean, I'm not like the Gary Vee of the world who sold flowers to people on cards and lemonade stands and all that stuff.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I got my entrepreneurial start pretty much when we first met five years ago.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And what were you doing before that?

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Um, I graduated college with a degree in graphic design of all things, which I, you know, I guess I've kind of used because, you know, as you see with all my websites, I try and, you know, do good design with them and, and I don't actually do the design. I just kind of hire people and make sure it looks great. But, um, yeah, I worked for the ATP, which is men's professional tennis after I graduated. It was my first, uh, I guess kind of real job, nine to five and, uh, loved the people, hated going to a nine to five job. Uh, my commute was like three minutes long, but even that felt miserable. Uh, and so I just, I knew that I had to kind of get out. And so I started a web design company with a friend of mine, really did the marketing, sales side of it. And then, you know, started my entrepreneurial career from there.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. And you were an athlete in college, right? You played basketball?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I, uh, I walked on, uh, with an athletic scholarship. I guess I picked one up on the way, uh, to play in Jacksonville, uh, Florida, at Jacksonville University, a D1 school and got injured, hurt my ankle pretty badly, uh, very quickly. And then, you know, realized that being a collegiate athlete wasn't really all it's cracked up to be and kind of a lot more work for somebody else than it was for myself. And let's be honest, as a six foot five white guy, I'm not going to be in anytime soon. Um, yeah. So, you know, I, I was passionate about it and, and, you know, I still play here and there, but, uh, it's funny, you know, when we first met, that was, you know, something really awesome to have in common with, there's not a lot of entrepreneurs, I think. Well, there weren't back then. I mean, I think now there are definitely a lot more athletes turned entrepreneurs. Uh, but that was definitely a huge focus for me.

• 8:23Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Yeah. So you had a, you know, you're an athlete, you lost your dream and then you got a nine to five job in sports, which is kind of like almost what every athlete thinks they want to do. They want to work in sports, at least I think a lot of them probably.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  Um, realized it wasn't for you. Then you started to do some of this branding, web design, things like that, and launching campaigns, people for people wearing shirts, but you're only making, you know, $60,000 the first year is what you made, but probably you didn't have that much left over. Once you were doing all the marketing and, and the hours that you were putting in, which is probably a lot more than nine to five. So were there a lot of people doubting you early on or were you kind of like, uh, I'm not sure if this is gonna work? Or was it not working for a while? Were you like trying to promote this like, hey, buy a shirt for a dollar? For me to wear a shirt for a dollar and, and was no one biting it? Kind of what was the process for you?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it was really interesting. I, you know, I had this great idea. I sent, you know, an email off to people. And this is, you know, right before I got started in two thousand nine, a couple of months, you know, ahead of time. And that was before I knew about building lists and buzz and all this stuff. And, you know, that was before I had a following on anything. I mean, zero friends on Facebook, no followers on Twitter, nothing. Um, and so I started emailing people about it just to ask them their feedback. And I mean, seventy-five percent of people probably said I was crazy, like, go back to bed, like, this is stupid. Cause of course I had the idea like late at night. Um, but I just, you know, for me, that was kind of fuel to the fire to say, no, I'm, I'm really interested in this. Like this, this kind of negative feedback and not necessarily negative, but like, you know, criticism that it wouldn't work was like, you know, now I want to prove these people wrong. And so I launched the website and twelve people showed up on the first day.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Um, no one bought anything. I made no money the first pretty much week. Uh, and I really had to sit back and say, okay, I do need to hustle to make this work. It's not just gonna fall in my lap, uh, and really started to kind of pound the ground and, and put in the hours and, and start doing it. And so it was really interesting as, as people would find the website, you know, over time, you know, the next couple of weeks and months. And as I got it out there, um, you know, there, there was a mixed feedback, you know? Some people are like, oh, this is really interesting and exciting. And a lot of people are like, this is really stupid. You're selling out. Um, you know, this is a bad idea. It'll never work. And so I, I really just had to kind of say, I believe in this thing. I really want to wake up every day, put on a company's T-shirt and tell their story to people who follow me. I think that's interesting and that's valuable. And that's kind of what I just kept doing every single day.

• 10:43Lewis Howes?

  Now you talk about, uh, I want to get in your book here, which is creativity for sale in just a second. But in the book you talk about, uh, experience growing up, going to a number of different schools. And how many different schools did you go to growing up?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, my mom and I argue about this, but it's somewhere between twelve and sixteen schools, uh, four high schools. So I moved around a bit and I was the new kid a ton.

• 11:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So how did that shape you and do you think that's supported you in being creative in any way or what you're doing in your business or does that have any connection at all?

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it definitely does. I mean, you know, kind of like yourself. I mean, I, I think I'm a, I'm an extrovert, you know, and then I'm, I'm happy to reach out and talk to people and meet people and, you know, I'll always want to stay late at the party so I can say hello to everybody and that type of thing. But, you know, I wouldn't have been like that. I don't think had I not been able to overcome the fear of, you know, I wrote about this in the book, but standing in the cafeteria door, holding my lunch tray with no friends to sit with and knowing, knowing nobody, right? Like, that's a, especially as a kid, like that can really shape kids in different ways. And, and luckily, like I had such a good home life where my mom was just so loving and my, my grandparents were loving and, um, you know, and, and just, you know, that reinforcement of, hey, it's okay to be different. It's okay to be unique. It's okay to be you.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Um, and, you know, there were instances where I got in trouble in school because I couldn't show my work the right way. And I just thought about it differently, right? And my mom empowered that. She was like, listen, you know, you're going to get this bad grade on this test, but I like that you did this your way, right? And you figured it out. You keep doing that. And, and so really having that support at home and, and just, you know, again, like being in that cafeteria and just saying, okay, I can do this two ways. I can go sit in the hallway by myself and cry and, you know, be really sad. Or I can go and just find somebody who looks like they might be interesting to talk to. And, you know, sometimes that failed, right? I mean, sometimes people are like, who is this kid? You know, it's high school. Uh, but yeah, I mean, it definitely shaped me to who I am and to not be afraid to kind of do things myself and take on challenges and just, just really look at the world kind of differently.

• 12:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's interesting. Yeah. And, you know, it's, I've followed you for the last five years. You know, we've connected a bunch of times in person and obviously the phone and email. And it's always something interesting you're doing every year. And the book that you're talking about that you just came out with is called Creativity for Sale. And who it's for is people that want to make money around what they're passionate about. They're, they're tired of working for other people or tired of working for people that don't like. And they need help getting exposure for their, for their idea or for their product or service that they're passionate about. And I think it's really cool because you've just done so many. Different things that people probably say that's not gonna work and then you make it work. Like, I don't know anyone else who's

• 13:22Lewis Howes?

  has two hundred and fifty sponsors or however many sponsors you have for a book. I don't think anyone's ever done that. How many sponsors is it, by the way, for the book?

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, two hundred and four.

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  Two hundred and four sponsors. So like every page has got a sponsor on it for those that pick the book up. And there's a, you know, ba- based on the page, the front cover and the back cover have more, uh, have a higher price point. It's kind of like how he did his shirts. And, uh, found out what's gonna get the most exposure. And charged based on that, which I think is really interesting. And, uh, you know, you made seventy five thousand dollars in sponsorships just on the book alone, correct?

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and before I wrote a single word of the book or sold a single copy.

• 14:01Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool. So you pretty much kickstarted your book, but you did it differently than most Kickstarter campaigns, right?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I kind of liken it to like I, I wrote my own book advance, right? I mean, I think that when I was first looking at writing a book and, and so last year, two thousand thirteen was a really rough year for me. I mean, financially, personally, I mean, I just, I really felt like I was in a rut and I, I didn't know what I wanted to do and I was sure it was kind of phasing out, you know, not because we didn't have interest from businesses, but just, I just wasn't loving it. And so, you know, I, I went to this amazing conference called MisfitCon and, you know, had a lot of people around there and I actually spoke and I, it was the first time I was really vulnerable while talking and just admitted that I was not in a great place and that I was kind of lost and I felt bad for kind of doing that at the event because they wanted me to tell this successful story of, you know, wearing t-shirts and making all this money and doing all this stuff, but

• 14:47Speaker 01

  you know, just i- it had run its course and, and so, you know, I met with a friend and he said, you should totally write a book. Like you've got an interesting story. Um, you know, and I was just like, well, I don't know how it ends. And he was like, well, don't worry about that. You know, just, just dig in and start doing it. You know, it doesn't have to be perfect from the start, as we all know from any project you start. And then I started, you know, emailing author friends and, and a lot of them said, Jason, self-publish, like you're such a creative guy. You'll, you'll come up with a way for this thing to work for you and, and just remember that a book is not a money-making thing. It's a, it's a marketing tool. And so, you know, my personality, if you've known from, you know, the 15 minutes we've been talking in this interview, anybody's listening. I took that as like, oh, well, now I need to make money writing this book, right? Like, I want to prove these people wrong. And so I I set out to to do the, you know, what I think is the first ever sponsored book. I mean, you know,

• 15:31Speaker 01

  and people who've who've read the book and see the book, the sponsorships aren't logos everywhere. It's not QR codes throughout the book. It's little 140 character messages, like footnotes at the bottom of every page. Uh, cool companies, you know, I turned away companies I didn't think would be a good fit for the book. And, you know, these are companies that, like you said, they really helped me kind of crowdfund slash kickstart this project and and just give me validation that the story I wanted to tell would be interesting for them to be a part of. Um, going forward. And so that's, that's how the book kind of came to fruition last year. And then I I wrote it this year. Um, you know, early this year, and now it's been up for sale for a week. And it's the feedback's been really great.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's cool. Yeah. I mean, I don't know anyone else who's had every page of a book sponsored. For my, for an ebook I did a couple of years ago on webinar marketing, I had a a sponsor that was one page. And kind of like sponsored the whole book. And for me, that was really, it was kind of like writing my own. Uh, advance as well.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:25Lewis Howes?

  That I didn't have to pay back, you know, or whatever. But it was like, there's, it's still getting sales every day and they still get exposure. For that sponsor. So it's, it's pretty cool what you can create because I know a lot of people are going to be buying this book and because they're going to be interested in how to launch their idea and make money around it. So those companies are to get that longevity of the promotion for as long as the book's being sold. So it's pretty cool uh for both parties. Now you've got pretty much four main sections of the book and I want to cover, I want to ask a few questions about each section. And obviously, we're not going to be able to get to everything. But you know, the first part of your book is kind of like your story, which is really engaging, interesting, funny.

• 17:06Lewis Howes?

  And a lot to it. We barely even covered anything. But you talk about one point, uh, how important it is to answer emails. And it's how you met your girlfriend. So can you tell me why it's important to answer emails and and how the story came about?

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think that like email has been the thing that's really made my career, you know, for everything because it gives you such open access to people and opportunities just by having it, right? Like just by putting out there and saying, if you want to reach out to me, I'm this person that does these things, you know, contact me. You know, and kind of at the peak of its popularity, you know, when I re-shirt in 2010, I was getting like 300 to 500 emails a day. You know, and I know that for some people they get way more and some people they get way less. But, you know, I was a one man shop, you know, managing people, managing clients, you know, filming videos every day, you know, trying to promote all these companies and also grow this business and then having to, you know, deal with an inbox that just never felt like it would be answered. And so one email I

• 18:01Speaker 01

  actually missed was an introduction to the president of the Advertising Society, University of Florida, who wanted me to speak in front of their, her group. And luckily, she, you know, was persistent and reached out on Twitter and, you know, we exchanged a few tweets and I ended up doing a Skype, you know, speaking thing for the school. And, you know, we started to talk afterwards and that person is Caroline Weingart, the person who's, you know, my girlfriend.

• 18:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Lives with me. I mean, we literally met through Twitter direct messages, you know, me Skyping into, you know, University of Florida's Advertising Society. But she's also the person who, you know, she, she wrote me a proposal to work for me and like to prove her value and get out of her crappy job situation. And, and was, it was amazing. I mean, you know, we started working together, we lived together, and she's the one who designed the cover of the book. She hand illustrated, you know, the entire thing. And she's, you know, been so supportive of every project I've had. And, you know, so email, I missed her email, but like that opportunity, I still look at as like, I went back to that and said, this, this spark wouldn't have even have started if it wasn't for that. And I've had so many things happen like that where I want to, I want to be in control of my email. I want to answer every email. I want to see every email. No matter how

• 19:08Speaker 01

  busy it gets, I just, I feel like there's, there's a lot that gets lost in like, you know, if someone answers emails for you or it's not really kind of, you know, you that's there kind of pushing your passion through every message that goes out.

• 19:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Yeah. I mean, it definitely gets challenging. And I know Gary Vaynerchuk and other guys, you know, some people read every email and take some weeks and other people don't read it, you know, like Tim Ferriss may not read his emails and have someone else kind of manage that for him and sift over to the things that are important. I still like to go through almost all my emails all the time and I always find little gems here and there. There's still a lot of kind of junk per se that

• 19:43Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  Isn't worth the time or the energy, but then there's always something that Powerful comes from it and you never know when you're gonna meet your next girlfriend, I guess.

• 19:53Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Now, you go into a lot of business stuff in the book as well, obviously. You talk about how to find your niche talent, find the right foundation, putting the right people in place, having great customer service. And, you know, I think we're very similar in the respects of we both started our businesses around the same time and we had to kind of figure it all out. Over a number of years and we're probably both still refining of the process, it's never gonna be perfect. But I really believe in all these things you talk about and specifically finding the right people in place. And great customer service. And you also talk about something that I like to refer to, which is under promise, over deliver.

• 20:36Lewis Howes?

  Now, why do you think that's so important for people to understand that one point?

• 20:41Speaker 01

  You know, I think it's really interesting and you look at a lot of companies that are out there that sell products or services and and you can't reach out to the CEO or you can't give feedback and actually hear from a human being. And that always kind of makes me feel just kind of like, that sucks. You know, like I'm, I basically like invest in your company and helping keep your company going and I get it on like a, an Amazon or an Apple or like companies of that size. But, but even with them, I mean, company like Zappos is a perfect example. I mean, this is a billion dollar company with a B. That if you send an email or you chat, like you get a real human being and that experience is just amazing, right? And I talk about that in the book, how that's a form of marketing and people are so short sighted and they don't think about that, that

• 21:19Speaker 01

  that can be your best marketing that you can have and, and it just costs you having good people and training them and really like having a culture that you wrap yourself around. And, and so with everything that I do, I try and think about, okay, if it's selling sponsorships, if it's, you know, writing a book, if it's whatever, how can I pack so much value in it that someone can say, yeah, this was worth it. I'm gonna recommend this to friends. I'm gonna talk about this because that inherently becomes my marketing because I've, I've poured so much into this. And I've really tried to under promise and over deliver, you know, with everything. And, and so I think that's kind of like the same thing with email, right? I mean, if I tell people to send me an email, anybody watching this, or I'm sorry, listening to this, you know, send me an email, [email protected]. I will respond, it will be me.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Like, there's not gonna be an auto responder, there's not gonna be anything else and no offense to the guys who do that, that's, I totally get, you have to do that at a certain point. But I like to be the person that has that touch point. And, and then, you know, I think Lewis, we could probably both agree with this. I like feeling great when I You know, I get taken care of customer service wise.

• 22:17Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  So why wouldn't, why wouldn't I want to do that for everybody else who has a, a, you know, a, a customer service issue with me? And so, you know, I know you've probably gone above and beyond for anything that you've sold. If someone's ever said, oh, Lewis, you know, I didn't like this thing that you sold. You probably said, all right, here's your money back. Like, that's how I would want to be treated. So I'm not going to ignore you or I'm not going to dust this under the rug. I'm just going to take care of it. And, and, you know, for sometimes that'll, that'll actually turn people around. And it was funny, very timely, I read your, your post on Facebook that you posted about the guy who called you and you picked up.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Right? And it's, I've, I've literally turned haters into paying customers because I've listened to them and I've tried to address whatever the issue is. And a lot of times you find that they're not actually really mad at you. They're just, they're just mad and they want to vent. And then your thing is there in front of them and that's where they go to do that. And if you can say like, listen, I'm really sorry that that happened. And they're like, oh, well, crap, like now I feel like.

• 23:08Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Well, I really wasn't that mad at you. I was just mad at something else and I took it out on you and you can really turn that around.

• 23:14Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree. And, uh, that's interesting. Yeah, I just posted that last night. It's been like the craziest responses, uh, come through there. But, uh, what, and I just hired a, you know, a new project manager who's also my, I guess, my chief happiness officer. And I was just like, your whole job is to make sure people feel so good and happy. And whatever they, any concerns or emails they send you, just like serve them to, to feel happy and to smile. And whatever it means. And I, I have an interesting story that probably like four years ago, I was, uh, selling, uh, a product that I'm no longer selling. But it did really well. We did over a million in sales with this one product in like a year and a half.

• 23:57Lewis Howes?

  And we used to, you know, I was learning how to like increase my customer support and just my whole process. And I said, you know what? I really love brownies. Like I love them. I smile so much when I eat brownies. How about every time? And what we were selling was a thousand dollar, uh, training course. And so I said, how about every time someone buys this, this course? We have this follow-up process and part of the process was sending people these like four or six brownies that were really like gooey and delicious. And, uh, about a month later, I got an email from a guy a month after he, he bought. And he said, You know, I was going to return the product and ask for a refund, not because I didn't think it was valuable

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  or not because I didn't think it was great content, but because I just didn't think I was gonna use it. So I was gonna refund it within like the refund daytime, the period. And I decided not to because I got a nice handwritten card from you and these brownies. And it just made me think of how like cool that was, my experience. So you sending me those brownies saved you a thousand dollars from a refund. And I was like, whoa, that's pretty interesting.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:03Lewis Howes?

  So I think it's a good, a good thing to always figure out how to make people feel happy and feel like you care, not like you're just trying to sell them something, but like you wanna go over, over promise, under deliver, kinda like you said in the book. So I like that.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And that's, I mean, it's such a small thing, but it's a long tail play, right? I mean, like people, they want the short sighted win where it's like everyone wants all the products and they buy everything. And it's like, yeah, well, sometimes you gotta play the long game and you have to invest in your customers. And you have to say, I'm gonna spend, you know, fifteen, twenty bucks to, you know, send somebody some brownies. And, you know, that's gonna save me a thousand bucks at some point. You can't know that, but it'll happen. And then you realize like, oh, well, that's, you know, five hundred orders of brownies or, you know, whatever, fifty or whatever. Uh, math is not my strong suit at the park. Uh, but you know, that's, that's where you just have to realize that stuff. Um, you know, that it really, it matters to people and it can make a big difference.

• 25:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Now, in the next part of your book, you talk about taking action and launch strategies and things like that. And how to leverage online marketing and social media. Well now, I wanna ask you your opinion. There's so many people that have these great ideas. And they probably come to you and say, oh, I've got this cool idea to do this thing. That's really creative and different. What do you think? And people come up with ideas all the time. Um, but probably ninety-five percent of people don't take action on them or have a launch strategy. So one, What is the reason why a lot of people don't take action on their creative ideas? And two, how important is it to have a detailed launch strategy for anything?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think this is the old adage, right? Like, ideas are great, execution is greater. And that's for me, like, that's my entire thing. I mean, I've had a lot of ideas over the years, but I've been willing to hustle my ass off to make them happen. And a lot of that comes down to, you know, you build a list of people that you can reach out to that can help you launch things, right? I mean, I think with most of the stuff, you know, like selling my last name, you were one of the first people I emailed and I said, hey, man, check this out, right? And then you're like, this is hilarious, I'm in, right? And so, you know, I

• 27:13Lewis Howes?

  And then I bid it for, I bid it 10 grand on it.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Exactly, right? But I had built a relationship with you for three years before I did that, or four years, maybe. You know, so it's, so, you know, I think that what you have to do to answer your question is, you have to say, okay, I'm afraid of launching this thing because of, and then list out your fears, right? Like, what are your fears? It's not going to make money, I'm going to get negative criticism, it's no one's going to buy it, you know, it's going to fall on its face and people are going to hate the product, whatever. And then you have to say like, all right, well, what are the upsides, right? Like, oh, I can make a lot of money, I can feel really fulfilled as a person, this can make me really happy, I can impact people's lives and I can provide them a lot of value. And to me, when you list out the good stuff, it always, you know, the little stuff becomes so minute

• 27:57Speaker 01

  and it just becomes, you just look at it and you're like, why was I even worried about that? You know, those, those things are not that big of a deal if I can just look at the bigger picture of what I want to do. And, and so, you know, a lot of what I talk about in the book is like, just put it out into the world. And what you'll find is that, you know, if you try and sell something and people say no, it's not because they're saying no because of you, right? They're not saying like, no, Jason, I'm not buying this because you're selling it. They're saying no because it's not a good fit, they don't have the budget, it's not something that aligns with their core values, you know, whatever that thing is. And so, it's, it's not a reflection of you when you put that thing out there, you know, whatever it is. And, and so, with the other thing, you know, a launch strategy, I think launch strategies are important. And my, you know, I get asked this all the time when I speak, and I'm sure you do too, is like, what's your biggest social media tip?

• 28:40Speaker 01

  And my biggest social media tip is to use email marketing, right? Like, I've become so bullish on email marketing because, you know, the Facebook algorithm is changing. The Twitter, you know, news feed is just cluttered up with everybody selling everything, right? And, you know, I'm visually scrolling here for you. If you can imagine holding up your iPhone and scrolling your finger up and down really quickly, like, that's how people look at social media.

• 29:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  People don't do that with email. People keep their finger off the screen and they stare at the screen, right? So it's, it's a whole different place and it's a captive audience and it's a, something that everyone looks at throughout their entire day and they choose. And, and here's the great thing, the email algorithm, algorithm is never gonna change, right? Like, we're not ever gonna have emails shown to us in a different way. We curate what comes in our inbox and that's really important. So when you're building a product or a service or whatever, you've gotta build that list and you've gotta find the right people to be on your list. And don't just put a list of 10,000 people in there and try and pitch them a product that they aren't even interested in. Build a small list of people that are passionate about stuff and have them buy it, right? And that's, that's, that's what I'm even trying to do. And I'm in that process myself for, for my, you know, the brand that I wanna build going forward off of the book.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  I'm starting at square zero. Like, I'm starting with a list of nothing because I want it to be so focused. And I could take my list of 20 and 30,000 people from my other projects, but they would never be that core audience for my next thing. And I want that to be like so focused because it'll bring the most value.

• 30:04Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah, I like that. Now, and towards the end of the book, and again, there's a lot of great tips in there on how to launch your creative ideas, so I really encourage you guys to check this book out. Uh, but towards the end of the book, you talk about, there was an interesting section where you said you had three goals when you graduated high school. And one was to own a Ferrari by the time you were 30. Two was to be worth a million dollars at 30 and three was to retire at 30. So. My question is, which, if any, of those goals did you achieve? And then what are your goals in life now?

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, it's really funny, like I I made those goals after high school and, you know, I I grew up with not a lot of money and not a lot of things. And so you, we all watched MTV Cribs a ton when we were growing up.

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Right? And so that's what you deemed as like society's success was have money, have nice cars, you know, retire early. And and I thought about all those things, you know, especially like last year, when I was again going through a lot of stuff and kind of realigning my values. And I said, okay, let's let's just look at these for a second. First off, having a million dollars, what does that even mean, right? Like a million dollars in the bank, a million dollar revenue generating company, because I had that. And even that wasn't like very fulfilling. It it just and and like I don't need a million dollars to live the life I don't want to live. I live at the beach, I've got a perfectly good sized house, I've got all the things I could possibly want. You know, I'm I'm happy, I I can travel, I can do whatever, like I just want financial freedom, right? Like, that's more important. So I kind of realigned that goal. You know, owning a Ferrari, I'm six foot five.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I lose, you're close in height to me.

• 31:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Fit in these cars, right? They were made for like, you know, guys that are five eight and five ten and and that's great for them, but like it's not going to be comfortable. The speed limit in my neighborhood is nineteen miles per hour. Like, where am I going in this thing? So, you know, I I love cars, I think they're they're really awesome, beautiful pieces of art. But I don't I don't need that right now, right? And so like, okay, let's move that one off the list as well. Um, you know, and the third thing was retirement, and I really started to think about this and I was like, you know what retirement really is? It's a societal thing that you do from something you hate, right? Like, no one retires from a job that they love. Richard Branson's not going to retire anytime soon because he loves what he's doing. He's not gonna be like, all right, guys, listen, we're making too much money, I'm having too much fun with all these projects, I gotta retire, right? Like, I've hit that age.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  So you you don't retire from something you hate, or you don't retire from something you love, you retire from something you hate. So I started looking at that and I was like, all right, well, I need to start doing more stuff that I really enjoy. And retirement won't even be an idea. So, you know, my my goals going forward now are just kind of to to have the freedom to, you know, Be financially free. I don't have to worry about looking my bank account every week and wondering if money's gonna show up and if I'm gonna be able to pay my bills and I'm still working towards that. I mean, I don't have that locked in. I'm just trying to focus that way. Um, to be able to travel, um, to be able to bring people a lot more value because, you know, my projects were, I wear your shirt, buy my last name, sponsor my book.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Um, they're very self-serving projects and I think that they do bring people value in certain ways, but I want to build a project going forward, which is the first page of my book called The Rebel Within Us. That's us, right? Like, I want to build a community of people who have an inner rebel like me, you know, it's not like a motorcycle jacket tattoo guy, but it's people, you know, who they want to unleash their inner creativity. They want to make a difference in the world. They want to do work that matters and they want to feel like I don't have to do things the way that society has told me that they should be done. I can do them differently and that's cool and people will support me in doing that. So those are really my big goals going forward and, you know, I think that it's it's awesome to be able to be in front of your audience and other people's audience where I can talk about this book that I've I've poured my heart and soul into and

• 33:44Speaker 01

  and really feel like it is gonna make a difference for people and and that I am gonna help them and not just myself.

• 33:50Lewis Howes?

  So in having this goal, this bigger vision, do you have a, uh, a project or a concept that you're currently developing?

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. I, you know, I kind of, you know, there's, there's so much stuff out there, right? And I, I literally hosted my first webinar like a month ago and I know that you've been on this train for years, so I apologize to you publicly for not listening to your advice on doing this because they work so damn well. I actually signed up for whenever your next one is just to see like kind of how you do it.

• 34:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  But so I bring that up because I want to build, you know, this, this, the rebel within us brand. I want to build basically, uh, it's, it's an email list where I give you so much value, so many thoughts, so many ideas, so many resources. And then I want to build workshops and courses and stuff that I know will like help people do actionable things, not just fill your life with fluff and like, you know, here's an ebook and here's this stuff and those things are fine if you build a quality product. But I want to actually build resources that literally help people change their, their lives and their work goals and, and I want to grow that with a community going forward. So it's a little nebulous at the moment because I'm just kind of digging into it after now finishing the book.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Um, but I'm really excited just to find people who align with that. Like, yeah, I, I don't want to do things the way that everyone else wants to do them and I do want to make a difference and add value. I want to join Jason on this journey as he does it as well.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  I like it. I like it a lot, man. Um, what's the biggest takeaway you want for people who are reading this book? What do you want them to get out of it the most?

• 35:18Speaker 01

  You know, I, I, I think I want them just to put the book down and say, yeah, I'm ready to start. Like, I'm not, I'm not gonna hold myself back from the thing that I wanna do. And that doesn't mean quitting your job, and that doesn't mean breaking up with your significant other. I mean, that means like, you know, I wanna start a side hustle. I wanna start a project. I wanna write my own book. I want to create my own thing. I wanna just get started doing something so that I can take action and I can really feel like this thing's gonna fill me up and it's gonna make me happy and, and I'm gonna get a lot of value out of it. And it's gonna impact other people's lives as well in some way. Um, and so that's, that's really kind of how I feel. And then I really hope people laugh at my jokes throughout the book, right? I mean,

• 35:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, my assistant Sarah said she was like laughing out loud a bunch of times for many of the stories. So I always appreciate a funny book because it's hard for me to stay focused reading books in general. So thank you for making it hilarious.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. I, you know, I read Alexis Ohanian's book without their permission and I was really moved by the conversational style of writing, like where I felt like he was just talking to me and Paul Jarvis is another guy who does that really well. And I was like, this is how I wanna write a book. I want someone to feel like they're having a conversation with me, not that I'm talking to them from like a business pedestal of like, here's what you should do. You know, more of just, let's go along this process together. So it's, it's really awesome to hear that. And I've been so humbled by the response this far. And, and if anybody from the Lewis Howes, uh, you know, community buys the book and, and, you know, lets me know that they liked it. I mean, I, I want feedback. And if you hated it, please let me know as well. I mean, I'm, I'm down for just criticism and feedback, um, to get better at all this stuff.

• 36:51Lewis Howes?

  Nice. Yeah. And before I ask you the final question, make sure everyone go check out Creativity for Sale. Just even to, you know, I recommend picking up the book and buying it. It's all over Amazon. And you can get it anywhere books are sold, but the website alone is beautifully designed. It's just everything Jason does is extremely creative. And he finds ways to be different and be unique and really be himself and not try to copy everyone else. But how he can showcase His unique gifts and monetize those unique gifts. And I think everyone has the ability to monetize their unique gift, their unique talent and passion.

• 37:28Lewis Howes?

  And it's definitely a great platform to see how it's possible for you to do it yourself. So go check out the book creativity for sale.com. Make sure to pick up a copy. Follow Jason everywhere online. You can see all of his social media, Jason Sadler.com as well, where you can connect with him. But to wrap things up and ask the final question, what is your definition of greatness?

• 37:55Speaker 01

  You know, I think it's my, my personal definition of greatness now is being able to help other people. Do the thing that they want to do, right? I mean, every time I get an email from someone that says, Jason, I started my thing because of the stuff that you've done, or I've been inspired by you. That just makes me so happy that they've been able to read my story and be inspired by it and and I just want people not to be afraid to do their own thing and just put it out there in the world and just try it and just see what happens and you know, learn from people like yourself and the Tim Ferriss's and the Gary Vaynerchuk's and all these people that you know, we all look up to in some ways and just say, I can do the same things that they can. They're just normal people. You know, with the same talents that I have, and I just have to hustle to make it happen.

• 38:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, if a couple of ex-college injured athletes, jocks can make things happen, then definitely all the smart people in the world can as well. So.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Absolutely agree.

• 38:47Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate you, man. And I really want to acknowledge you for the huge heart that you've had over the last five years in us being connected and not just between me and you, but really with everyone that you serve in the world, the brands that you serve. I know you go above and beyond, at least you did when you had these shirts. The videos you created, I know it took a lot of time and energy and. Hustle for you to get these videos done every single day, what you were doing for these brands when they signed up to be a part of your journey. It was extraordinary and I was just like, man, this guy works really hard to make sure that people feel like they care, that he cares about them and that they are valued. So I acknowledge you for, you know, the gift that you have to the world.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  You're a unique inspiration and I can't wait to see what you've got coming up your sleeves next.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Thanks, man, and it's, uh, seriously, it's been awesome to watch you grow as well. I mean, I'm just, I'm so proud to, you know, have known you back when, you know, again, when we were just both, you know, bummed out, injured athletes. And you built this, you built this empire and it's, it's inspiring. It inspires me. I mean, I see your stuff pop up all over the place and I, I read your blog posts and I'm just like, and I connected with you personally on, you know, a really personal thing that you shared and, and, and putting that stuff out into the world. I mean, you just never know who it's going to have an impact on. And I think that's what I'm trying to do more, you know, myself is just to put my story out into the world and, and make that impact. So, you know, kudos to you. Uh, so grateful to be on this show, um, and to just be able to, you know, talk about my book and, and share, you know, my own journey with people.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  Of course, man. I appreciate you and I will see you soon, brother.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Sounds good.

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  And I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed interviewing Jason, then make sure to go to check out lewishouse.com/72 to see all the different show notes. You can also pick up his book there. Uh, there's a video about him and what he's created. I'm also going to find the video that he did of me when I bought a shirt through him, I think like three years ago. He, I remember him doing a cool video. I'm actually going to find it and put it up on the post. So make sure to check out all the show notes, all the links to the show over at lewishouse.com/72. And if you enjoyed this show, please do me a favor and share this with your friends over on Facebook, over on Twitter.

• 41:19Lewis Howes?

  Google Plus and post a picture on Instagram where you're listening to this specific episode. Anywhere in the world, go ahead and post on Instagram, tag me, tag Jason. And I want to see what you guys are up to. I get posts every day from listeners on Instagram and on Twitter and Facebook. And it's so fun to see where you're listening to the show. So continue to do that because it's a big inspiration for me. And I'm here to serve you and inspire you as well. So, thank you guys so much for tuning in today. And for sticking with me along my journey through the USA Pan American Championship Tournament coming up. I'll be posting more updates soon. If you want to follow me, LewisHowes.com, at Lewis Howes everywhere online.

• 42:02Lewis Howes?

  You can see what I'm up to, what I'm creating and how the team's doing. So again, thank you guys so much from the bottom of my heart. You guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.