718 Building Human Connection in a Digital World with Dan Schawbel

HUMAN CONNECTION IS THE MOST POWERFUL. We have thousands of “friends” on social media. But how many people could you actually call in a time of need? Technology is becoming a larger and larger part of our life, but it’s causing us to be more isolated. We have to work hard to continue to build actual human connections. Otherwise, life has no meaning. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about all the ways that technology is affecting us in the workplace with a friend who has done tons of research on the subject: Dan Schawbel. Dan Schawbel is a New York Times bestselling author, serial entrepreneur, Fortune 500 consultant, TV personality, keynote speaker, career and workplace expert & startup advisor. His mission in life is to support his generation from student to CEO. Dan says that we have to use technology to create more face-to-face interactions. The more people form relationships at work, the more collaborative and happy they will be. So get ready to learn how to create more connection in the workplace and in life on Episode 718. Some questions I ask: Why don’t people build better relationships at work? (13:59) What do you think every work environment should have? (18:33) What is the ideal workweek? (27:27) Why is it hard to find good people to hire? (34:14) What could you be doing better at in your company? (37:56) How do you deal with employees who are entitled? (40:37) In this episode you will learn: Why it’s important to have a good work environment (13:05) Why companies should have therapists in-house (17:25) What you should have everyone do in a meeting (19:24) Why you should hire for personality (23:17) How AI is going to affect the workplace in the future (24:05) The four things everyone is looking for in a job (29:20) The number one way to have a healthier work environment (36:29) Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 718 with New York Times bestselling author Dan Schawbel.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Steve Jobs said that technology is nothing. What's important is that you have faith in people, that they're basically good and smart, and if you give them tools, they'll do wonderful things with them. Today, we have an opportunity to learn how to use the digital tools to becoming more human and having deeper connection in a digital world, whether it be in the work environment or personal environment. We've got New York Times bestselling author, my friend Dan Schawbel in the house. He's a partner and research director at Future Workplace, and he's the founder of both Millennial Branding and WorkplaceTrends.com.

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  Through his companies, he's conducted dozens of research studies and worked with major brands, including American Express, GE, Microsoft, Virgin, IBM, Coca-Cola, and Oracle. He's interviewed over 2,000 of the world's most successful people, including Warren Buffett, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and many, many more. This is a guy that's probably had more interviews than I've done with people in a lot of different fields as well. He just usually publishes them in articles and not as much on audio like myself. He also hosts The Five Questions with Dan Schawbel. It's a podcast where he interviews a variety of world-class people, asking them five questions in less than 15 minutes. In addition, he's written countless articles. This guy is the king of press.

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  He's written everywhere with Forbes, Fortune, Times, and others that have combined. Generated over 15 million views. And in this interview, we talk about how technology can bridge the gap in relationships instead of separating us like it seems to be doing today. The importance of sleep and how it can affect your work performance, whether you're working on a corporate job or you're working for yourself. The best tips to optimize your work environment. Why having a good attitude at work can get you further than having great talent. Also, how to negotiate with your boss or employer to create a happier work environment. This and so many other things in the interview. I'm super pumped about it. Make sure to share this with your friends.

• 2:43Lewis Howes?

  LewisHowes.com/718. And it's all about building human connection in a digital world. All right, guys, get ready for this one. I'm super excited. My good friend, Dan Chabell, again, he's done years and years of research on this. So he's got all the data backing this up. And I hope it helps you in your work, in your life, in your relationships, and in your career. So without further ado, let me introduce to you my good friend, the one and only, Dan Chabell.

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  Dan Chabell is in the house. Welcome, my man. You've got a book out called Back to Human. How Great Leaders Create Connection in the Age of Isolation. Make sure you guys check this out. And we've known each other for almost a decade, right?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Over a decade.

• 3:31Lewis Howes?

  Is it? 2008 or 2007?

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Either 2007 or 2008.

• 3:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Every time I see you, I feel both young and old at the same time.

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  You still look the same.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  I know, I still look the same. I still look the same as I did when I was five.

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you see the baby pictures, it's like, oh, my God.

• 3:48Lewis Howes?

  That's a good thing. It's a good thing you're staying young. We've had a fun relationship over a decade because we both got into this. You got into this earlier than me by probably like a couple of years, maybe. Maybe a year or something. And I found your blog, personal branding blog. And it was like the thing I needed to see in that moment. Because I was like, how do I get noticed in this space of a new journey that I'm on? I just got, I was in my sister's couch when I found it, was reading articles. I think maybe Chris Brogan linked to it or something like that. And I remember. I was reading Guy Kawasaki's blog, because I think Seth Godin talked about Guy Kawasaki somewhere. And Guy Kawasaki said that he really liked Chris Brogan's blog at the time.

• 4:30Lewis Howes?

  And then I read Chris Brogan's blog, and you were linked or mentioned somewhere, I think. And so I went down this rabbit hole. And I loved what you created early on, because you were talking about how do you build attention? How do you create notice about who you are in your industry? And so I took on that early, and I think learned branding and personal branding very early because of the spark that you gave me. So I appreciate your work and your message and your research. And you've always been really good at researching. And this book is about a lot of data, isn't it?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  My whole life's been about a lot of data.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you're very analytical.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  I'm all about asking questions.

• 5:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  And interviewed over 2,000 people and asked them at least five questions each, plus 45 research studies, surveying about 90,000 people in 20 countries. So really, my life is about asking questions.

• 5:21Lewis Howes?

  Why do you like?

• 5:22Speaker 01

  That's how we learn.

• 5:23Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Why do you like data to that extent? Why can't you just ask a question and be happy with it?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  When I was younger, both when we were in our early twenties, we could write so many different career articles about how to get a job, how to be fulfilled in your life. But there was so much ageism. You're young, what do you know?

• 5:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  So for me, data was my shield. It was my way of saying, hey, if you don't believe me, here are all these data points to prove what I'm saying.

• 5:50Lewis Howes?

  It's credibility.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  So in 2012, I had an incredible opportunity. I analyzed four million millennial Facebook profiles. And I did an entire media campaign around it that went viral. It was on, talked about on the Today Show, CNN, everywhere. And from there, I was like, oh, my God, like, releasing my own proprietary data and analysis into the world is gratifying. It's almost like if you're-

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  People are referencing it, talking about it, look at what this study shares with you, right?

• 6:18Speaker 01

  It's like if you're an archaeologist finding the next dinosaur bone. So I was discovering something new. So it was a genuine excitement, plus it built my credibility, and it allowed me to connect with other people who shared the same interests. So that campaign went well, and then now it's 45 research studies, and one of them is captured in this book. I partnered with Virgin Pulse, one of the 400 Virgin brands that Richard Branson owns.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  That's it? Only four own 400 he owns?

• 6:42Speaker 01

  More now.

• 6:43Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy, man.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  He's probably launching more companies. And I've actually interviewed him three times. Brilliant guy. And he believes a lot of what is talked about in this book too. Interviewed over 2,000 managers, employees in 10 countries. And found that we are very disconnected. Whether you're on a subway, whether you're in the workplace. People in the workplace are having lunch alone. People in the subway, you feel like you're around so many people. But yet around no one at the same time. Because people are physically there, yet not mentally or emotionally or spiritually. And so there's a huge disconnection because people are relying on technology too much and misusing it. Whereas they should be using technology as a bridge to human relationships, not a barrier.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Technology can bring us here in this great podcast studio.

• 7:31Lewis Howes?

  Technology brought us here, you know, 10 years ago. I saw your blog. We connected on probably Twitter or something back in the day and then we met in person, right? I can't remember which event it was, but we met at many events in the social media marketing world or something.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  But if we stayed on the technology, never met, we wouldn't be here and there wouldn't be a strong friendship.

• 7:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  So what we lack in our society is community. Lack human connection because we have, we touch our cell phones every 20, every 15 minutes. And 2,600 times per day.

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  2,600 times.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Jay Shetty had the same reaction.

• 8:07Lewis Howes?

  Well, he might be, he's on it a lot. He's on his phone a lot. I am too.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  He's probably, that's like understated.

• 8:13Lewis Howes?

  He checks a lot too.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  But not having your phone is the new vacation. We're overworked, we're burnt out. People are working longer hours than ever before without additional pay. And technology has made us on call 24/7. People answer business email outside of office hours, on vacation, wherever they are. It's always kind of working. It's the new norm. It's almost expected.

• 8:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Busy is no longer a differentiator. Busy is what we're all feeling or we think we're so busy. We think we have all of these friends. But yet it's an illusion. Technology has created the illusion of connection when in reality we have weaker contacts. Someone with an average of 100 Facebook friends only have, has three people they can rely on in a time of an emotional crisis. So we think we have all of these Facebook friends, but Facebook has changed the definition of friendship. Whereas who can you really rely on if you're mentally ill or you're in the hospital? Who are the three people who are gonna call you? Wow. And those are your real friends. Those are people who are gonna be with you for a long period of time. It's like what Jay said to me. He's like, I wanna be friends with you forever. And that hit home so hard.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  I posted on Instagram, I got hundreds of comments because people, especially men, don't talk like that. You know that from writing The Mask of Masculinity and really focusing on men and emotions. People don't talk like that. Someone does say that, it really hits home because you're like, wow. Like, what if I could just walk over to the people who I really wanna be friends with a long period of time and say, "Hey, I wanna be friends with you forever"? Like, that is so powerful. And just going back to the workplace, we spend so much time at work. The average work week in America is forty-seven hours a week. I'm kinda jealous of, in Germany, they're fighting for a twenty-eight hour work week. No way. Yeah. There's very strong labor unions there. Really? And in most parts of Europe, like Italy and France, it's a thirty-five hour week, five weeks guaranteed paid vacation.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  But even in France, they have the right to disconnect, so you cannot email an employee after work hours or you get fined. Wow. Are they more productive or not as productive as US culture? They prioritize life. Over productivity. People spend a third of their life working. So if you hate the people you work with and don't extract meaning from the work that you actually do, you're gonna be disengaged. And eighty-five percent of the global workforce is either disengaged or actively disengaged. In the global workforce? In the global. Wow. Everyone, yeah. What if you're doing, working on a job you love? If you work at a job you love, you still have to like the people you're around. Yes. Because if you have a poor manager who does not have, create a Treats you poorly, yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Doesn't have a healthy work environment, you're gonna be disengaged, you're gonna be unhappy, and it's gonna affect your personal life. That's one of the things I studied is, if you have a toxic work environment and are very disconnected and don't have a lot of friends at work, what impact will that make in your personal life? If you have a bad day at work, you're gonna go home and your wife or your friend is gonna say, "How was work?" And you're gonna have a bad attitude and be like, "Oh, I hated it. My manager, you know, made fun of me or took credit for the work I did today." And that is gonna hurt your personal relationships too. So that's why I focus so much on work in all of my books. I've been writing books since I was twenty-two. It's a third of our lives. Because it's a third of our life and because if you have a great work culture and because people are working so many hours, that has become so significant.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  And what I found is that people lack work friendships. People just go to work, they go through the motions and they come home.

• 11:38Lewis Howes?

  Why don't they create friendships if there's a hundred people in the company? Why do we not build better relationships at work?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Because people feel isolated. Think of how people at work, even in a physical office space.

• 11:51Lewis Howes?

  Everyone at coworking.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  They'll get lunch in their cubicle instead of asking their coworker to lunch.

• 11:56Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Because they have created this whole isolation themselves. It's their fault, right?

• 12:01Lewis Howes?

  Why don't they just say, I'm gonna disconnect for an hour and connect with someone?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Because then they get an alert on their phone. People would much rather text and email than have a face-to-face conversation.

• 12:11Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 12:12Speaker 01

  But one face-to-face conversation is more successful than thirty-four emails back and forth. So instead of just emailing back and forth.

• 12:19Lewis Howes?

  Getting a call even is better.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  There's misunderstanding, I can just walk two feet and say, hey.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard to convey clear instruction through text or meaning through text or email. It's really challenging.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Think of the last time you felt anxious because you sent something and you're like, you're worried if they're gonna understand what you mean.

• 12:36Lewis Howes?

  Right. Why are we isolated?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Because people would much rather take the convenience of using the technology instead of actually going and having a conversation with people.

• 12:46Lewis Howes?

  Because it's easier.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Especially if you're an introvert, is what we found. You're more likely to be isolated, maybe even out of choice. But wherever you are, even if you're in the office space, there was a recent study that came out that showed that if you have an open office space, you're less likely to establish human connections in the workplace. And if you're burned out, we have such a burnout culture, there was another study that came out that's really interesting. If you don't get enough sleep, you have fewer friends and weaker relationships because you're in a bad mood, you have bad attitude.

• 13:15Lewis Howes?

  Takes more energy to connect.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Takes more energy to connect. So we have to think about all of this. That's why the first chapter is focus on fulfillment. And I talk about building a healthy lifestyle. And you have to focus on your own fulfillment before you help your teammates focus on theirs. You have to get your own stuff right.

• 13:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How do you create fulfillment yourself?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  You need to figure out where your strengths and passions collide and then be in an organization that supports that. An organization that has a leader that empathizes with you and really understands where you're coming from, creates a safe environment. So at Google, they have Project Aristotle and they were trying to find out what makes the highest performing teams. And they found that it's about creating a safe environment where people feel comfortable talking about emotions, what's going on outside of work. Big projects, big mistakes that people are making and sharing ideas and taking risks.

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  Should we bring personal issues into the workspace?

• 14:10Speaker 01

  You have no choice.

• 14:12Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to just disconnect.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  You can't disconnect.

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  And just.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  You can't disconnect.

• 14:16Lewis Howes?

  Compartmentalize.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  So if you're a leader, you have to lead with empathy. I have a whole chapter, chapter nine on this because it's so important.

• 14:21Lewis Howes?

  Because people are going through life challenges every day.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  I don't know what's going through your head right now. I don't know what happened this morning. But you're feeling it and it could affect your work, so you might need a mental health day. And I have to be understanding of that.

• 14:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  A third of Americans suffer from anxiety and depression. We have to account for this because it's affecting so many people. It's either it's affecting you or the people that you love or know. Everyone's affected.

• 14:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  So we have to take a step back and understand that one person A is person than person B. And we have to take both their needs into account because if we don't, we're going to have a toxic work culture. People are going to be less engaged and they're going to look for another job, which is going to cost us more money and time. And we're going to be, it's going to cost us our health too.

• 15:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Should, should companies have therapists in-house?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  I think that's where we're going. Well, Claude Silver, who works for VaynerMedia is the therapist for VaynerMedia. She's the head of HR.

• 15:17Lewis Howes?

  Oh, really?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think we're going to see that more often.

• 15:20Lewis Howes?

  You're going into her office and just sharing stuff?

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  And opening up?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Well, and think about it. VaynerMedia has a lot of young employees that are suffering the most. That are very isolated. They don't know who to talk to about their issues.

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  Twenty-three to twenty-seven year olds. What does he have, eight hundred employees now or something? Are they suffering or what? Do you?

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Everyone has their own issues.

• 15:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Everyone. No one is in a perfect situation. It's a myth. And you know what? People look at us, they're like, oh, everything's all set for them. No, we're always, we're either creating our own challenges, right?

• 15:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  By choice.

• 15:50Lewis Howes?

  Or getting through something, yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Or external circumstances that we can't control are happening and we're reacting to them. And our lives, we're just iterating our lives as, as it's happening and reacting and molding. I never set out to do any of this. It's, it's just naturally happened over time because I'm leaning into my strengths and figuring out what I'm good at. And I keep doubling down and doubling down and doubling down. And if something's not working, I move to the next one.

• 16:14Lewis Howes?

  So what do you think every work environment should have, whether you're an entrepreneur and you have a team of three? Or you're working at a space or you're a manager, whatever it may be at any organization? What are the key elements that it should have to? Optimize the experience. There's obviously going to be challenges, even if it's optimized and you have the therapist and this and that. But what do you think will set you up to win the best?

• 16:38Speaker 01

  First is using technology properly. I'll give you an example.

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  It's having artificial intelligence to remove administrative work. So that workers can focus more on spending time with their coworkers and doing work that has more impact on others, on the company and customers and the market.

• 16:57Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Right? So eliminate that work and then use technology to get people to go to a meeting or to do something. But when they're physically there, have them take their phones and put it in the middle of the table. And I'm seeing this in the workplace.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to in a meeting and checking and constantly texting and...

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Use technology to get people to a specific place. But once you're in that place, be physically and mentally present.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Instead of still looking at that same phone that got you there. Because if you don't, then how are you supposed to brainstorm? And even listen and pay attention to what people are saying if you're still using your phone?

• 17:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  I think technology is great because it can get you to a specific location, get everyone aligned and in sync. But it becomes abusive and you become addicted if you're constantly using it during that meeting. You're not actually leveraging that meeting the way you should.

• 17:47Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Okay, so that's number one is leverage technology better. Use it less when you're in person with other people, right?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Create a shared learning environment. That's number two.

• 17:58Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Which means that instead of hoarding information selfishly, share it with others. If you read something that's really interesting and applicable to your teammates, share it with them. Don't even think twice.

• 18:09Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Because the average relevancy of a learned skill is only five years. Business is moving so fast that in order to keep up with these changes and adapt to these changes, you have to share what you know and have coworkers who are going to do the same thing and reciprocate.

• 18:25Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise, you're gonna have to do all the work yourself too. And you need to be able to teach other people how to do that work.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  There's a myth that if you're an executive at a company, that you maintain power by holding on to information. Yet, as you know and I know, as social media influencers, that the more we share, the more influence we get, the more people follow us and the more impact we can have. If we just held on to all of this content and never published it, we would have zero impact.

• 18:53Lewis Howes?

  Right. That's it.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  And that wouldn't feel good.

• 18:57Lewis Howes?

  No. Okay, so that's number two, right? What else? Is there anything else?

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Yes, I think that what we have to do in our society is embrace diversity. So I have a whole section about how we need people who are similar to us in terms of values and work ethic, but they need to look different. They need to challenge us. Because our greatest challenges are solved through arguments, and arguments are created when their people are different. So people look at conflicts in a negative way. Conflicts are how we solve things. Nothing is peaceful, nothing is great all the time. So people will naturally argue. They'll have a different belief or point of view, and those arguments are actually beneficial. They make us more creative and innovative.

• 19:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you talk about promoting diverse ideas and opening, open collaboration.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  Yes, we can't be closed off anymore. The, the leaders of the past were autocratic leaders. They were all about command and control.

• 19:56Lewis Howes?

  They made the decisions.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Following policies and procedures. The managers of today and the future are those that are trans, are formative, meaning that they encourage the best in others and have a strong vision that others follow. You can't get excited about someone who has no vision. We talk about this all the time.

• 20:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  If you have a good vision, though, you want a collaborative environment so people feel like they're included.

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  People want to belong to something that's bigger than them.

• 20:23Lewis Howes?

  Something we do is everyone on the team goes through emotional intelligence training and goes through many months of it. And I feel like when we continue to personally develop and grow as humans on a team, then we can start to grow as a team. When we work individually, then the whole team benefits because we're able to process emotions better, we're able to express better, we're able to not hold on to things that hold us back. And I think that's what helps see things to grow. So it's something I like doing. What else you think the workplace should have or the work environment should have? You say hire for personality, what does that mean?

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, hire for personality, train for skill. Hire people who have a great attitude because they're going to perform much better.

• 21:07Lewis Howes?

  It's hard.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Attitude is everything.

• 21:08Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to teach people how to have a good attitude if they have a negative one all the time.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  So they'll have a positive attitude if they're around people who are positive.

• 21:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  And if they're doing work where they're playing to their strengths and where they know that they're having an impact. Most organizations fail because they're not good at communicating to their employees that and connecting with the work they do and the impact that that actually makes on the team, on the leader, on the CEO, on customers, on partners, on the world.

• 21:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Potentially, right? And so drawing those connections to get people meeting is so important because if you're just coming to work and doing administrative work, you're not going to have a job anyways in the future. It's going to be automated. Because, you know, upwards of forty to fifty percent of jobs will be automated in the next decade or so.

• 21:55Lewis Howes?

  How will it be automated? Through AI, you're saying?

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Through artificial intelligence. So the idea, like in my industry in HR, you know, if you think that you're going to just sit around and answer employee questions about their benefits, you're out of luck because artificial intelligence and chatbots are, it's already happened.

• 22:13Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  You know, Intel has an artificial intelligent chatbot, an AI chatbot for HR that's answering all those questions. So you're, you're not needed anymore. So the smart people now focus on big data. That was always my big bet. But also focus on problem solving and social skills.

• 22:31Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Sales skills are only going to become more important.

• 22:35Lewis Howes?

  Selling.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  A robot is not going to close a four million dollar deal.

• 22:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Yet, at least.

• 22:40Lewis Howes?

  Someone who understands human connection, human psychology, what makes people tick, what makes people think, what, what people desire.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  And you know what hasn't changed? It hasn't changed is Maslow's hierarchy of needs. After safety and security, food and shelter, you need love and friendships. Otherwise, you'll never be self-actualized.

• 22:57Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  So there's a great story in my book about a girl who was living in North Carolina and she had to get relocated to New York. But the cost of living in New York, as we both know, is very expensive.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  Four times as much, at least.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:11Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  So her manager took her in as if she was his child, supported her so that she could make it work. So instead of going to work every day and being like, oh my god, like how, I don't know, I can't afford to live here and being always stressed out about our financial situation, she had that covered because her manager empathized and supported her so she could focus on doing.

• 23:32Lewis Howes?

  The job.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  The job and being a top performer. And now she's an executive for one of the biggest companies in the world.

• 23:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  So she stayed with the company for over ten years at someone our age, which is very rare because of that support.

• 23:44Lewis Howes?

  But if our basic needs, you're saying, aren't met and someone is anxious all the time, they're not gonna be able to deliver great results.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  It's impossible.

• 23:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  And so that's why I'm trying to emphasize friendship at work because you know what? What we found in this study is that people lack friendships globally. Ten percent of people have zero friends at work and half of the workforce has fewer than five.

• 24:09Lewis Howes?

  How many, how many people were in this study?

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Over two thousand.

• 24:12Lewis Howes?

  Two thousand people globally.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Yep, UK, Australia, India, China, Brazil.

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  Ten percent of the people have what?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Ten percent of the people have zero friends at work.

• 24:21Lewis Howes?

  No friends.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Zero.

• 24:23Lewis Howes?

  No friends, you have just like acquaintances or work.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  In Germany, it's the worst. They have the least amount of friends.

• 24:27Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 24:27Speaker 01

  The most amount of friends, Brazil. They are just the most outgoing people and they're most likely to be extroverted too. So they are social. If you've been to Brazil, they are up till seven in the morning partying and having fun. So they've got something going on there that's right. There's other issues, but socially they've nailed that. America, overworked, burned out, rocking friendships.

• 24:48Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Extremely unhealthy, yeah. Because you're just always working. So it's great to, you know, be a banker and make a hundred fifty thousand dollars a year outside of school, but you have no time too. Because you're being burned out every single day, seven days a week.

• 25:01Lewis Howes?

  You've studied the workplace for over a decade. You've talked to thousands of leaders and executives and CEOs, managers, HR, everyone. What do you think is the ideal?

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Work, I guess, work week hours wise? How long should somebody be working for? Should there be breaks? Should there be, you know, how much vacation?

• 25:25Speaker 01

  It's like a hundred questions in one, Lewis.

• 25:27Lewis Howes?

  If you could have the ideal like work year.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  Based on every country that you've studied and what you know about the workplace. How many hours a week would it be? You know, vacation time, like all of it.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  I'm actually studying this right now, but there's a firm in New Zealand that tested a four day work week and it was successful. People were productive, healthy.

• 25:48Lewis Howes?

  One firm?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Just one firm.

• 25:50Lewis Howes?

  In New Zealand?

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we're blowing that up and do a bigger study that comes out Labor Day.

• 25:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so three day weekend every week?

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, so basically people when asked how many days of, with salary consistent, how many days a week would you work? About seventy five percent said they'd work less than five days and still perform very high.

• 26:09Lewis Howes?

  Same salary?

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Same salary, reduced days.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  One day less a week?

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, because they're wasting at least an hour.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  They'd be more efficient.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Each day on administrative tasks that they shouldn't be doing and that automate, that are gonna be automated anyways.

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  It might make you, yeah, you might be smarter in the way you have systems in place. If you knew you had one day less, you'd be smarter with your time. You'd get different softwares, you'd develop things. The thing is, once you're productive with four days, you can say, hey, let's add an extra day and maybe we grow even more. Isn't that the challenge?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Well, that's especially if you're an entrepreneur, right?

• 26:40Lewis Howes?

  Cause I never wanna stop.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  You're not gonna work four days a week.

• 26:42Lewis Howes?

  I never wanna stop.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  You like it and you see the potential.

• 26:44Lewis Howes?

  It's more a mission than money, you know what I mean? So it's more of like, as opposed to driving the bottom line, it's like, how do we impact the most?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  People need flexibility. That's one of the consistencies across my ten years of research is after pay, flexibility is number one, even above healthcare benefits.

• 27:03Lewis Howes?

  Pay is number one, always, right?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Number one, across all age groups, sixteen to sixty five year old, doesn't matter what country, pay is number one.

• 27:09Lewis Howes?

  More money.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  But it's about fair pay. Because especially people our age in the workforce now, we're more likely to talk about our salaries to the people we work with, the people we work with. So if somebody has worked the same amount of years.

• 27:22Lewis Howes?

  Millennials are talking to everyone about this.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you work the same amount of years as your colleague in the same position and they're getting ten thousand dollars more than you because they're a man or they spoke up or something, that's not okay.

• 27:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  And you're gonna end up leaving. And flexibility, healthcare, none of that's gonna matter if you're not being paid fairly. So they pay.

• 27:39Lewis Howes?

  So fair pay is number one.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Fair pay is so important. Once you get past that, then it goes flexibility.

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  Time flexibility or?

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Flexible schedule, so coming in at ten o'clock, leaving at eight o'clock. Because maybe, everyone's in a different situation, you have kids, you don't have kids, you're more.

• 27:55Lewis Howes?

  Not having to be nine to five every single day, but being able to have some flexibility when needed.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Correct, and working from home. But there's a dark side to working from home. Everyone talks.

• 28:04Lewis Howes?

  Because then there's less collaboration in person, it's more technology, right?

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Everyone talks about the positives of working from home, which are freedom and flexibility and the reduced commuting costs. But no one talks about the dark side, which is loneliness and isolation.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  It's more loneliness, more isolation, and sometimes people aren't as, they don't take care of themselves as much, right? You're just in your pajamas all day. Yeah, less accountability, you're just like, well, I can get up later and like just get to the computer at nine. And I'm not going through my routine, I'm not, you know, being as proactive in my health, not all the time, but this can happen.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  A third of the workforce globally works remote always or sometimes, yet two thirds are disengaged.

• 28:50Lewis Howes?

  Two thirds of the one third are disengaged, or they're just doing other things, there's no accountability, right?

• 28:54Speaker 01

  No accountability.

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  That's the challenge. Unless you have like twenty-four seven video camera on them and you're seeing like exactly what they're looking at on their computer, but you can't even do that if you're working in a workspace.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Can't.

• 29:06Lewis Howes?

  But people are disengaged from work too, whether it be on social media, or they're doing other things, personal stuff all the time, right?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, the research shows that you should be working and focused for forty-five minutes and then take a fifteen minute break.

• 29:17Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Right, because it's really hard to focus for four hours a day.

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  No, you can't.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  So you need these breaks.

• 29:22Lewis Howes?

  You need to get up, walk around, have a conversation, engage.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  And that's what we're trying to encourage with this book. This book is giving people permission to establish more human connections and not rely as much on technology. And it's a reminder. Every time you're using technology, in your head, you see the book cover and you're like, wow, I should be a little bit more human. And you can be human with technology too.

• 29:42Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  And but I think technology is a path, or can be a path, to more human connection.

• 29:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Right? It can lead you there. In the early part of my career, I used the technology to establish a great network.

• 29:54Lewis Howes?

  Build audience, sales channels.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's the same reason why you have a live event, because you have to actually meet these people in person.

• 30:01Lewis Howes?

  Have to.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  You have to get to know them. And you learn so much about your customers, your friends, everyone, through the emotions that you have and the things that you share when you're vulnerable.

• 30:10Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. What else is the ideal workplace? So money, flexibility and freedom, although there's a dark.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Learning and development is after healthcare benefits.

• 30:19Lewis Howes?

  So healthcare benefits is next?

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Compensation, flexibility, healthcare benefits, and training and development.

• 30:26Lewis Howes?

  So having more training to grow and develop?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  The younger you are, the more you're looking for a mentor in training and development. As you get older, you just don't, you don't care as much.

• 30:37Lewis Howes?

  Why is it?

• 30:38Speaker 01

  You're kind of chucked out. Because you think you might know everything, or you're at a position where you're getting paid enough.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  Or you feel like you've put in your time and now you deserve.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  A little bit of entitlement. Yet, I think the funniest people.

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  It's entitlement on both sides.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  Like twenty-two-year-olds.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  There's ageism on both sides too.

• 30:53Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard to get a job if you're sixty-five.

• 30:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  But it's also, when you're young, it's hard to get paid a lot because people see you as younger.

• 31:02Lewis Howes?

  You're inexperienced.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  So people see you as inexperienced. Inexperience does matter, for sure. I mean,

• 31:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it does.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  You know, you're better at interviewing now because you've had so much time.

• 31:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Speaking with so many people.

• 31:12Lewis Howes?

  As an entrepreneur, as a CEO, or whatever, you're looking for results. Someone who can deliver results efficiently. That's what you look for. I don't care if someone's twenty-three, I don't care what color, I don't care what gender, it doesn't matter to me. I want to know you're going to be positive, you're going to be fun to hang out with, if we're going to be spending time. You believe in the mission that we're here to do, which is impact people and help people be better. And you're going to get results efficiently. Yes, you're going to make mistakes. Yes, there's a learning curve, but if you can do those things, I'm pretty happy.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  And you need all of those things. Everything else you can learn. You can learn everything else.

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  That's it. But it's hard to find those people.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  Really hard.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Let's not make it seem like it's easy to find good people.

• 31:52Lewis Howes?

  It's really hard.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Who believe in what you're doing and who will get along with everyone and put their best foot forward every single day.

• 31:58Lewis Howes?

  Why is it so hard to find good people to hire?

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Because I think people want different things from work and are in different situations. And not everyone believes what you believe. And you have to be okay with that.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  And there's shiny objects and there's.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  But I think the key is the more you put yourself out there, the more you will attract the right people. Because you're not going to follow someone and read their content every single day if you don't believe what they believe.

• 32:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Right? Unless you're a bully. We've had enough of those.

• 32:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course. Okay, so help benefits, flexibility, fair pay.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Learning.

• 32:37Lewis Howes?

  Learning and development. What else? Is there anything else? If you got that, that's a pretty good.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  That's really good.

• 32:44Lewis Howes?

  If you got some free food here and there, that's another perk. That's like a Google.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  So people don't care about those perks.

• 32:49Lewis Howes?

  Really free food and like.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  So I interviewed the former head of people operations at Google. And he said that people work at Google because they want to learn and be with the smartest people in the world.

• 33:01Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  That's why, because of learning and development. Right? And again, Google's changing the world.

• 33:08Lewis Howes?

  Maybe that's their personality, yeah.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  They can be part of the change that they see in the world through working at Google or Facebook or Amazon or Apple. Right? The companies that are changing and have control over society, they want to be part of that rather than go against it.

• 33:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  And so, and so I think it's about, I think it's about being a leader that inspires, that has empathy. And that creates a culture that allows people to bring their full human to work.

• 33:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Because they're going to anyways and they need support.

• 33:39Lewis Howes?

  For an entrepreneur that has a whole team that is remote, you never get together in person.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  That's an issue.

• 33:46Lewis Howes?

  It's three to 10 people or 20 people, but it's all remote. Because I have some friends who have fully remote teams that are actually doing pretty well financially. But they haven't grown past, it's hard to grow past a certain level. Is it possible to have a thriving business with a whole team remote?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, your friends have it. I have friends who do. But I think only twenty percent of companies have offsites or social events for their team. Yet, in the research, we found that that's the number one way to have a healthier work environment and establish more human connections in the workplace. So if you avoid

• 34:22Lewis Howes?

  Doing work events, doing offsite.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, so even if it's once a year.

• 34:25Lewis Howes?

  Retreats, retreats for a weekend.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  At least once a year, do something.

• 34:28Lewis Howes?

  I'll tell you what, when we

• 34:29Speaker 01

  You gotta show people you appreciate them too. I have a whole chapter on recognition.

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  You know, and it's, and people don't wanna wait a year to get feedback or an annual performance review. They want feedback along the way.

• 34:39Lewis Howes?

  Consistently, right?

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Consistently, every day, and it's another excuse to connect with someone. So learning, sharing what you know, that's another excuse to engage someone. You know what I mean? So like, these habits are only good for the work environment because the more you do it, the more your employees see that you're doing it. So they start to adopt that behavior. And then you create a whole environment where people are sharing what they know. You know, the motto is, you know, I, and whenever I learn, I share. And they're always recognizing people, so people feel good about being there. You, you wanna obviously recognize someone in an authentic way, right? You don't wanna come off as disingenuous or blow it out of proportion. But like, I think recognizing people and telling them first what they're doing great, and then saying you could improve

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, here.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Something else.

• 35:23Lewis Howes?

  Feedback, yeah.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  That's how you give feedback.

• 35:24Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  If all you do is criticize, people are gonna, you know, be turned off by that. So you have to learn, there's a, there's a, you know, a subtle art of giving feedback so that people feel good about it, yet they see it as a learning opportunity.

• 35:38Lewis Howes?

  Uh, as someone who's studying this constantly, you have your own company, your own team. What are you lacking to implement that you know you can do better at?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that is something that we should be doing better at, is an offsite.

• 35:51Lewis Howes?

  You personally?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  The good thing is, we do at least four in-person events a year.

• 35:56Lewis Howes?

  So you all come together?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  So we all come together, not just the team, but all the customers come together.

• 36:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  So we are seeing them because if, if we didn't have interactions with these big Fortune 500 companies every year, they would not be part of our network anymore. Because they require, especially in HR, they require a lot of human contact.

• 36:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  You know, they wanna, they don't wanna just hear about something that they can Google. They wanna actually interface with people who are like them. It's a community.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Just like you and what you've created as a community. Like, you can, you can put out hundreds of podcasts and a lot of content every day on Instagram and Facebook and have your own show, but it's really about engaging people where they already are and making them feel like they're part of something bigger. Like, when I was, you know, going to your shows, you could just tell that people felt they were, like, they were a part of something. And you were a leader or the, the group organizer, but they were like, I listen to the show, you listen to the show, we have something in common.

• 36:50Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  We both care about self-development and gratitude and everything else you stamp for with greatness.

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  That's, I think that's so powerful is you're creating a community of people who have shared interests around something that's positive in the world.

• 37:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So more off-site connection, more retreat-style stuff?

• 37:08Speaker 01

  At least have video conferencing where you can actually see the person.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  None of this technology is ever gonna replace face-to-face interactions.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Nothing.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  It's impossible.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  But video is key. I do a lot of FaceTime just with people in general. You know, I'm always on FaceTime. And that's way better than just a phone call or text, I think. You can connect eye to eye.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  You're eliminating misunderstanding.

• 37:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  And you're encouraging connection.

• 37:29Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  And I, it's like every day, every morning, I call my parents.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm an only child with Jewish parents. I'm calling them every day.

• 37:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  I can't rely on a brother or sister to call them and for me to take a break on a daily basis, right?

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  See, I'm the youngest of four, so I can get away with that.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  But I think it's a good habit to create, right? A habit where you're constantly engaging with the people who you care most about and you're telling people how you feel about them, even if you have a fear of being judged.

• 37:57Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What should, um, employees or people working request more of their company if they're not getting something? And how should they approach it so it's not attacking or defensive or entitled coming, you know what I mean?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the problem, is a lot of people feel they're entitled to more money.

• 38:18Lewis Howes?

  And we need this, and we need this.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Asking for too much, especially early in your career, it's a big mistake. I'll tell you what I did early in my career when my first job. We, everyone in my department, in the marketing department, I had a fortunate company. Everyone had to create a marketing plan. And I was like a year into this job. What I did was I walked to each one of them and I said, I'm gonna do your marketing plan for you. I did everyone's marketing plan, or at least the first draft of it, which is a significant amount of work. But I learned how to do a marketing plan when I was younger. And I saw a need to be able to establish relationships with everyone on the team and getting them to support future projects that I wanted to take on. And it was the best job security you could have because I've created enormous value.

• 39:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  And so I did it all for everyone. And so it's making a huge impact quickly. Whether you're networking with someone or whether you're trying to excel in the workplace at a young age, it's seeing an opportunity where you can add value and just quadrupling down, going all in, doing as much as you can for the people you work with. Because then that's how you win them over. And then throughout the rest of your career, you have people who you can rely on.

• 39:22Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. And it's hard to get rid of someone who is always showing up and always proactive and always thinking, how can I be more efficient and create better results and go above and beyond? It's hard to say, I don't want that person around. You're always gonna be acknowledging and appreciating that person more than people that aren't doing it.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Exactly. No, it's about consistency. If you're showing up every single day, even five, seven days a week, people notice that. People love the work ethic. No matter what anyone says or how they criticize people, we know, these people work so hard. And we can relate because we've been through this long, long journey. I mean, the blog I started when I was, you know, 22 years old, over 6,000 articles now. You know, it's been read by like over 10 million people. Like it's big. But it was, it only did that because every day, 12 blog posts per week. I was managing the magazine, Personal Branding Magazine. I'm managing 100 different contributors, two editors. I did the marketing, the promotion, the distribution, everything. On top of having a full-time job.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  But I knew in my heart that all of that work would eventually pay off.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  And, and I think when I was in my twenties, I really had a lot to prove to myself. I needed some sort of validation.

• 40:38Lewis Howes?

  You worked really hard.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  I needed the validation because I never got that growing up.

• 40:42Lewis Howes?

  Really? You were the only child.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  I was bullied so much growing up.

• 40:45Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 40:46Speaker 01

  In elementary school, I got in trouble every single day. Wow. Because I suffered from anxiety, so I didn't know I had anxiety and I couldn't channel it, so I was always in trouble. And I also, I was treated very poorly by teachers, like in elementary school, I was put in a closet by my third grade. No way. Yeah, my friends would make fun of me every day, so it was tough. I didn't really say much when I was in middle school and even high school because I knew that I would be almost punished every time I spoke. And in middle school, I was shoved in a locker. So that actually does happen. Locked. Yeah, you see it, you see it, you know, on TV, but it actually happens, so. I was too tall to fit in the locker, so no one, they did other things to me. Yeah. They hurt my heart in other ways.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Totally, but what I realized is some of the things that might have made me weak and, uh, you know, enable people to bully me when I was younger became my greatest strengths. Mm-hmm. When I was, you know, really young, I would come home and literally cry into my pillow because I never fit in. And I even said, I never fit in, I'll never fit in, but maybe I don't fit in because I'm special and someday I'll do something great. So you knew that? I knew it back then, I was a little kid. You said maybe it'll pay off. Maybe all of this will pay off. Really? But I had to be so patient. I was a little kid. I was, I knew it. I knew all of this. I didn't know that we would be here doing a podcast or I'd have three books by now or. You knew something would happen.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  I just knew it because I'm like, maybe I don't fit in for a reason. So if I stopped the self-talk at saying, I'll never fit in, that's, that's defeating and that would have led to enormous amounts of depression and who knows wherever else I would have faced from that. But I turned that around and said, wow, maybe it's because I'm gonna do something great in my life. Hmm. And to me, that is the most inspiring thing to me is the fact that I said that when I was a little kid and I knew all along. And I'm still patient. I say it's like the subtle art of being patient with persistent. I will wait years to talk to someone. And that's fine, because I'm doing this for the rest of my life.

• 42:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  It's easier to make short-term decisions when you know what you want to do. And the only way to figure out what you want to do is to do as many things as possible, as young as possible, so you can figure out what works for you.

• 43:06Lewis Howes?

  That's what it is.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And then not being afraid to iterate along the way and evolve.

• 43:11Lewis Howes?

  It takes six months at a time, or six weeks at a time, to go all in on a subject, or something you're curious about, or a skill set, and get as far as you can. And if you like it, keep going, or start something new, and just keep starting something new to where you have a skill set. At some point, you're gonna have a lot of skills, and you're gonna be able to use it for one big thing, or multiple big things, and it's gonna pay off.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Reflecting back, I always said, be the best at what you do for a specific audience. That was like the framework behind building a personal brand when I was younger. Then I realized as I got older, what's made me unique is two things. One, I'm really good at multiple things. When combined, give me a competitive advantage. That, to me, is pretty powerful. The other thing is, I am a marketer in HR. So I have a skill set that is becoming increasingly valuable in a different profession.

• 44:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  So take something that you're really good at, and put that work and that skill set into something different. Whether you're really good at something in, you know, and working in California, and you go to Hong Kong, and you just leverage all those skills to blow up in Hong Kong, like, just take what you're doing into another market, and that has huge room for growth, if you can do that.

• 44:30Lewis Howes?

  I love this, man. Make sure you guys get the book, Back to Human: Dan Chabell, How Great Leaders Create Connection in the Age of Isolation. If you're a CEO, or an entrepreneur that's got a team that's building, you're gonna wanna check this out. Even if you're in the workspace, if you're an employee, should you check this out, so you understand what you can bring to the CEO or to your manager?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and there's tips for everyone, whether you're an employee or a leader, how to work with leaders, how to manage remote workers. Basically, I have nothing more to add to that book. It's everything I've got. I interviewed a hundred young leaders from a hundred of the best companies for the book. I did an assessment called the Work Connectivity Index with a professor. That measures the strength of your work relationships from low connectivity to high connectivity. So you get a score and then the.

• 45:15Lewis Howes?

  So people can take the test?

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:17Lewis Howes?

  And to hold, is your whole company?

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Yep, the whole company can take it for free.

• 45:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Where do they get that?

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Work connectivity index dot com.

• 45:25Lewis Howes?

  Work connectivity index dot com. Um, I love it, man.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  It's got everything. It's everything I ever wanted to do for a book. And I was, I finally, after the second book, had enough credibility and connections that I was able to pull it off. And each book helps people get to the next phase of their career. Me 2.0 was college to first job. Promote Yourself was first job to management. This is a leadership book. And each book actually makes, is more human. Me 2.0 was at the beginning of the Web 2.0 movement, all about digital. And then Promote Yourself had some chapters on digital, but a little bit more on soft skills. Because we found out that that's the most important thing managers are looking for when they promote. And then this one is clearly saying, hey, we need to, you know, get back to human, be really smarter with our, how we build our relationships.

• 46:12Lewis Howes?

  As technology continues to grow, uh, it's only going to create more isolation unless we create the structure to be more human.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  And what's so fascinating, we did a study of 25,000 people. And we found that the technology is actually forcing our humanity outside of us, right? So like, the more you're using technology, the more you have a need to pick up the phone. Because you still have the need to have friendships and have connection.

• 46:36Lewis Howes?

  Intimacy.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  That'll never go away.

• 46:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Wow. This is the three truths question. If this was the last day for you and you could only share three lessons with the world, what were the three things that you would say?

• 46:48Speaker 01

  One is be patient, but with persistence. So work really hard, go for it, but be okay if it doesn't happen right away. I always tell so many of my friends this because everyone wants things immediately. Instant gratification, right? Number two is experimentation. Figure out what works, what doesn't work, and lean more into what's working and quadruple down.

• 47:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  Because then you'll be able to maximize that opportunity. And then if there's something else you want to do, you'll have a better chance of doing it. Because you've already built the framework, the foundation, the connections and the skillset to leverage to do the next thing. We're always a work in progress. We're always learning and being challenged. And you need to rise to the occasion. I think that people need to be more curious, ask a lot of questions.

• 47:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  That's how I've gotten to where I am in my career. I just keep asking and asking and asking. And the more you ask, the more you try and solve problems for yourself, the more you're gonna be able to help others. If you can't focus on your own fulfillment and become happy and fulfilled in what you're trying to do, you're not gonna be able to be effective with others. You're not gonna have that attitude and excitement. You're not gonna understand what it takes to figure it out if you don't figure it out for yourself. So really, get your shit right.

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  And then help others as much as you can and be generous. So like me, I'm like you. I'm like, you know, how can I help people? I'm always thinking about that. But it's not like I'm walking into random strangers being like, I'm gonna introduce you to Richard Branson or Reid Hoffman or someone very substantial. I'm very smart about who I talk to, who I introduce to each other. I'm deliberate and thoughtful in everything. I'll spend like a week before I give you feedback on a show or something that you're producing. Because I want it to be very thoughtful because you'll gain so much more from that rather than me in the moment saying that was great or it could be improved.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  And people appreciate that. People appreciate the effort that you put into anything, whether it's a relationship, friendship, work, everything. And that's why you have to be picky with who you surround yourself with and the work you do because you'll only put that effort in if you're with those people, working on those projects and in the right environment.

• 48:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Great, man. Well, I want to acknowledge you, my man, for consistently showing up for me. It's been a decade of friendship and you have such a level of work ethic. And you always are thinking about how you can add value to me and other people. So I want to acknowledge you for the level of detail you have with your research, the attention to detail towards your writing, the impact you make on other people and your constantly showing up for others. And that value is very much appreciated. So I appreciate you for that, man, of course, man. Guys, make sure you get the book, Back to Human. Go to dan shabel.com. You can get it on Amazon. You can get it in bookstores. Dan Shabel on Instagram. He's starting to blow up, so make sure to follow him there.

• 49:40Lewis Howes?

  And you can learn more, everything else, at dan shabel.com. S H A W.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Oh, the podcast, Five Questions with Dan Shabel.

• 49:46Lewis Howes?

  Five Questions with Dan Shabel, which I'm gonna be on as well. Check it out if you want to hear what my five answers are.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Definition of greatness.

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  What's your definition?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  It's gonna be different than four years ago when I was on last.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Lean into who you already are, instead of living up to the expectations of others.

• 50:04Lewis Howes?

  Dan Schabel. Appreciate you, man.

• 50:10Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one with my buddy Dan Schabel. He's a guy who spends countless hours, weeks, months, and years researching certain topics to find the exact analytical data to back what he shares and what he talks about. And he spends a lot of time writing his work. So this book, make sure to check it out right now. Get a copy of the book. It's all at the show notes at lewishouse.com/718. You can follow Dan Schabel over on Instagram and Twitter and all those good places. Again, we'll have it all linked up on the show notes. Make sure to tag me at Lewis Howes and at Dan Schabel over on Instagram. What you enjoyed most about this episode, so we can stay connected to you as well.

• 50:54Lewis Howes?

  And share with your friends. Spread the message of greatness by sharing this with your friends. Spread the message of continual learning, continual development in your friends' lives, so that we can all grow together. So let them know what you think about this. Share with your friends. And my friends, we've got a big interviews coming up every Monday and Wednesday. And on Fridays, we've got Five Minute Fridays, the inspiration to finish your week strong. But man, some big interviews got coming up. I'm so pumped. We've got LeAnn Rimes, we've got Shyla Goddard, we've got Darren Brown. We've got some incredible people coming up soon who've been blowing my minds, literally.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  And I can't wait for you to hear them and watch them. If you're not subscribed on YouTube, go to youtube.com/lewishouse and subscribe, because we have videos coming out every single week as well that are going to uplift you and inspire you throughout your day and throughout your life. And as Steve Jobs said, "Technology is nothing. What's important is that you have faith in people, that they're basically good and smart. And if you give them tools, they'll do wonderful things with them." I love you all so very much. It means the world to me that you continue to show up every single day and listen to this podcast and apply what you learn here into your life. Because that's what's most important. What you learn, you must apply and start inspiring those around you.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  As always, you know what time it is, my friends. It's time to go out there and do something great.