706 Embracing Death, Making Music, and Finding Purpose with Mike Posner

WORK ON YOURSELF FIRST, THEN SHARE YOUR LIGHT. Every athlete needs an offseason. They need time to train in different ways to strengthen their mind and body for a new year. The more you work on yourself, the more you’ll be able to give. Give your mind, your heart, and your soul the nurturing it needs to grow. That’s why I was so excited to speak with an artist who is on a journey to find inner peace in order to share his gifts: Mike Posner. Mike Posner is a singer-songwriter, poet, and record producer. Mike has co-written amazing hit songs like “Sugar” by Maroon 5, “Boyfriend” by Justin Bieber, and “Beneath Your Beautiful” by Labrinth. His debut album 31 Minutes to Takeoff includes the US Billboard Hot 100 singles “Cooler than Me” and “Please Don’t Go.” His 2017 book Tear Drops & Balloons is his first book of poetry. Mike has been through a lot of loss in recent years, and he uses it all to make music and poetry. Learn about Mike Posner’s journey and hear some of his new songs on Episode 706. Some Questions I Ask: What got you into songwriting? (6:10) Where do your melodies come from? (7:35) Did things change for you overnight after your big hit? (9:15) What makes a song really go big? (15:46) What’s the biggest struggle for an artist that has a hit? (18:30) Who is your personal favorite greatest musician? (21:36) What is the biggest lesson your dad taught you? (30:02) In This Episode You Will Learn: About Mike’s struggle with depression (18:46) What makes a song a hit (24:35) What the death of loved ones taught Mike (27:01) What keeps artists happy when they’re not touring (44:10) How Mike uses meditation to be more present (45:05) Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 706 with Mike Posner.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  "Learning is not child's play. We cannot learn without pain." Aristotle. Today, we have my friend, Mike Posner, who is a singer-songwriter, record producer, and poet on the episode. He's known for releasing the popular studio albums 31 Minutes to Take Off and At Night Alone. And he's written songs for many popular artists like Justin Bieber, Labyrinth, Maroon 5, Nick Jonas, Big Sean, Nelly, Austin Mahone, and many others. He has earned numerous nominations for prestigious awards like Grammys and the MTV Video Music Awards. And today, we go through

• 1:11Lewis Howes?

  a wide range of emotions. We have a lot of fun while playing a song together. We play the guitar and sing together. We also talk about death and what death has taught him about the value of his own life. He shares deeper about what losing his father recently and losing Avicii to suicide has taught him about life. We also talk about how happiness is not a product of what we do and what keeps artists happy when they are not selling records or touring. We go into if he thinks anyone could live a life without pain and suffering and so much more. He's a true artist. He's a true poet. And I think you're going to enjoy

• 1:55Lewis Howes?

  what he shares about art and happiness and finding your purpose through happiness in this episode.

• 2:09Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everybody to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm very excited today we have my man, Mike Posner, in the house. Good to see you.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Well, I'm here to snap.

• 2:19Lewis Howes?

  How many songs have you written overall, you think?

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Hundreds. In my life?

• 2:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Thousands.

• 2:23Lewis Howes?

  Thousands?

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, thousands. Or maybe close to a hundred. No, like between 50 and 80 per album.

• 2:31Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Then how many come out? 10 to 12?

• 2:34Speaker 02

  10.

• 2:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think the next one is nine.

• 2:39Lewis Howes?

  Nine?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  It's just like, um, like

• 2:44Speaker 02

  brandishing a sword, you know, it's like and then flip it over and like keep going. So, yeah, we make an album, I'll write, I'll basically go away for a year or two, write all these songs and then try to pick the best ones to produce out, record. So it'll be like 15 to 20 of those. And then we'll put those on a whiteboard and go, uh. They're, at that point, they're all good.

• 3:11Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Where you're just like, these ones are a little better. And so you're getting rid of another like six.

• 3:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Hopefully you have a project that's just like

• 3:19Lewis Howes?

  How many albums now?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  I'm getting ready to release my third solo album. Studio album. I got a few like live albums and

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  poetry albums and I have a band, Mansions. And then I have some albums I recorded that never came out.

• 3:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Got shelved and stuff when I was cold, like business, political stuff.

• 3:38Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  But this will be my third studio.

• 3:40Lewis Howes?

  Okay, man. And what got you into, uh, songwriting in the first place? And singing music?

• 3:47Speaker 02

  When I was a little kid, like eight years old,

• 3:52Speaker 02

  I loved hip hop. My big cousins rapped and my buddies, all, and all the kids I thought were cool in school, they all listened to hip hop. And, um, I wanna try freestyling. And so I remember one time we had me and my buddies Ronnie Posey and Aaron Webster. We all tried freestyle. We had like found some CDs that had music on with no words. And we all tried freestyling over them. And remember they thought, oh, that was fun. And I thought, I'm never gonna stop. I'm gonna get great at that.

• 4:27Lewis Howes?

  How old were you?

• 4:28Speaker 02

  I was like eight.

• 4:29Lewis Howes?

  Freestyling at eight?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I just kept, I just never stopped.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  Are you a better freestyler or are you better at writing a song?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  My freestyle skills are pretty rusty now, though I still do it sometimes. And I can kind of freestyle songs now. So I'd say now at this point, writing songs, I'm better.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  Better.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  But it's not really a fair question because freestyles go into songwriting a lot. A lot of times, songwriting starts with freestyling. You can make an argument that all songs start with a freestyle. You know, it's like a melody pops up. Where does that come from? You didn't plan out to have that melody pop in your head and just did.

• 5:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So when something comes in your mind, where does it come from? Is it usually something else you're watching or a deep conversation? Or something you see on TV where something starts to play in your mind?

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Well, that's the million dollar question.

• 5:19Lewis Howes?

  Well, how's it work for you?

• 5:23Speaker 02

  I mean, do you feel like you are the author of your thoughts? Or do they just pop in your head?

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  I think I'm inspired by things that I see or things that I'm lacking. So I have a desire for something or there's a pain or a need based on something I want. And then based on that lack of feeling, that pain or that suffering or that desire to change something in my life. And then I start to unlock this creativity of like, okay, what would that look like? What would that feel like? Where's an example of this in the world that represents what I want? Or I'll lean into music or art or dance to start to see what I can unlock. And I think that's at least how I do it.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  I think that does hold up because.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Deep down there, I want songs to come out. So there is that intention there. But you hear a lot of the great songwriters, they say, I'm not doing it.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  It's just coming through them or what?

• 6:17Speaker 02

  That's what they say, you know, and it feels like that sometimes. It's like, do I really deserve credit for this melody that popped in my? Like, I feel like I'm just recording it. I'm repeating it, you know? Yeah, so it's an interesting thing, you know? Because part of my ego wants to take a lot of credit for it. Like, I'm great, with all the amazing things I've done. But I don't know if I'm really doing them. It's just, there's thoughts on some level.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. And you've had a lot of success over your career. But when Ibiza came out, and we were talking just before, when someone remixed it, and it kind of blew up there. Did your life change after that moment? From what you were doing for years before with touring and having, you know, other successes? But did things really change after the big hit? Or did it kind of stay the same for you?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  So Ibiza was my second big hit that I sang. I have some others that I've written for other people. But my first big hit was a song called Cooler Than Me in 2010.

• 7:24Lewis Howes?

  How's it go?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  If I could write you a song to make you fall in love, I would already have you up under my arm. I used to fall in my dreams.

• 7:36Lewis Howes?

  I like that song.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  Did you sing that song?

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I sang it.

• 7:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. 2010.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I wrote it in my dorm.

• 7:42Lewis Howes?

  That was a big hit.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wrote it in my dorm, you know, when I was in college. I recorded it in my dorm and put it out. And it was my first single. It was my first single, so I thought, oh, that's what happens when you put singles out. You just make a ton of money and everyone tells you you're great.

• 7:58Lewis Howes?

  You were in your dorm, you were in college.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:00Lewis Howes?

  You were at Duke, right?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 8:02Lewis Howes?

  So you just came out, 21 years old, had this hit, put it out online? Or how did it come out?

• 8:08Speaker 02

  I put it out online first, the original version. And there was a remix also. The original version was me and Big Sean, a lot of people didn't realize. So I came up in Big Sean's crew for a while, just in his entourage. And I put this song out. And it sort of like blew up online in a sort of a culty way. Then... After I had that song out for a while, I put a whole mixtape out, like a whole free album. And then that kinda like circulated even more. I started getting offers for record deals and stuff. Like finals week, junior year. I had flown to New York like a bunch of times to take meetings and whatnot. And I was like really trying to finish finals.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  No way. And my manager called and he's like, "Yeah, go back to New York." I was like, "No, I need to write this paper or else I'm gonna fail." He was like, "You gotta go back to New York. Jay-Z wants to meet you." Shut up. 2010, you're 21. This is 2009. Jay-Z wants to meet you. So it was before the song blew up. It's just online a little bit. It started to get a little buzz online. Correct. Jay-Z wants to meet you. Jay-Z wants to meet you. I thought I would go there and then they'd be like, "Listen, Jay got busy. We're sorry." That's what I thought. So I didn't tell anyone. I just left campus. Right, and I'm like, "Jay-Z wants to meet me." No, I left campus, went to the airport, flew to New York, go to the office, and they're like, just sort of waiting around, and they're like, "Okay, he'll see you now." And I was like,

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Oh, he's really here. Yeah, I had my little laptop, you know, with like my sticker on the back, you know. Duke University, like, yeah. Correct, correct. And I walked in the office, it's a gorgeous office, and there's Jay-Z. He was like, "What's up, man?" I was like, "What's up?" So he had like a little speaker system, you know, I went and like tried to plug my computer into it and like fumbled the chord, the aux chord, and like finally like played the song cooler than me. And he just started nodding his head real hard, like he was, I could tell he was just loving it. We spent like two hours with Jay-Z talking, and at the end of the meeting, he goes

• 10:23Speaker 02

  to his partner at the time. He was like, "So what do we do now?" And his partner says, "We do a deal." And he was like, "Okay, we'll be in touch." Wow. So I went back to Duke, and I went back to the library. I'm writing this paper. And I checked my email and there's a offer from Roc Nation for a record deal. Needless to say, I didn't do the best job on that paper. It was the only C I ever got because I was quite excited. And I end up not signing to Jay-Z for a myriad of reasons. I signed to J Records, which is a subsidiary of Sony. Long story short, man, I made my first album and there was a remix done of Cooler Than Me

• 11:07Speaker 02

  that my homie Gigamech did. And that remix blew up. And like I said, I got totally jaded by it. I thought, that's what happens.

• 11:18Lewis Howes?

  That's what happens. You put out a song.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm one for one. I'm one for one, so I will, yeah, everything I do will be a hit. I put out my next song and it did pretty well, but not as well. I put out the next song and did a little worse.

• 11:32Lewis Howes?

  A little less.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  And then it kept going like that.

• 11:34Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  And just like the graph was just going from top left to bottom right, like the red line, you know? And finally to the point where a few years later, I was just, I was just ice cold. And I had really nothing to do. There was no, my calendar was empty. And I had made like my money and I had a house in the Hollywood Hills. I had like a Porsche and just nothing to do.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  You were like 23, 24.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, like 20, 24. I thought, what, what now? That's when I wrote I Took A Pill In Ibiza. It was about that because everyone loves talking about that rise up and what it's like on that mountaintop or what they want you to think it's like on the mountaintop. But I thought it was interesting what happens after you fall off, you know?

• 12:27Lewis Howes?

  Once you have the big success and you start to go backwards, how do you, yeah, what do you, what does that feel like?

• 12:32Speaker 02

  I've never heard people tell that side of the story in music that much. So I thought it was cool if I wrote about that. So I wrote that song and there's a lyric in the second verse. Like, I'm just a singer who already blew a shot. I get along with old timers because my name's a reminder of a pop song people forgot.

• 12:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  And the, a big ironic thing was that.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Writing those lines gave me another shot. Which I wasn't really asking for, but I got it anyways. Cause that song blew up as well.

• 13:04Lewis Howes?

  Do you think because it was real or because of the timing of it? Or because of the partnerships you had? Or why do you think that took off? When all you write thousands of songs a year.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:14Lewis Howes?

  And why didn't the other ones take off? What makes a song really go big?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  No one really knows. No one really knows. Cause even the greatest writers are the most, the guys with the most hits ever. Who more, even more than me, like Max Martin, where they still write tons of songs that aren't hits. So even, no one has like this formula. You know, if there was a formula, everyone'd be using it.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  So I think it's all those things that you listed. Is the fact that, you know, I was being honest in the song. Make people connect to it? Yeah, I think so. Did the remix and the production that the guys did on it help? Yeah. Did my connections help? Yeah, all that stuff went into it. It's just, um, I don't know. I don't know. And every time I tried it, when I was younger, I would try to make something that would be popular. It would never work. When I just do what I think is cool to me.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Sometimes, not always, but sometimes the whole world seems to agree. I don't know.

• 14:27Lewis Howes?

  That's a good lyric right there. When I do something that's cool to me, sometimes the world agrees.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:33Lewis Howes?

  It's a good line. Sometimes though, not every time.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Not every time. Not every time. You gotta be prepared for that.

• 14:39Lewis Howes?

  That's the struggle of an artist. When they do something they fully believe in and they love, and then no one else cares. It's hard. To take that rejection, I think, right?

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:48Lewis Howes?

  Because you've written thousands of songs and, you know, maybe 20 people like, right? Or people sing, or people, you know, it's like.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Well, mostly, yeah, most people know me for those two songs.

• 14:58Lewis Howes?

  Those two songs?

• 14:59Speaker 02

  You know, and I make, I make albums, you know, as mine, like, I'm a student of the album. So I like, what I do during my day, I listen like Rolling Stone top 500 albums. And I try to make albums that good. But most people just know those two songs.

• 15:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Which, you know, I'm not angry at them, but it's not like the whole picture.

• 15:18Lewis Howes?

  Because the album really tells a full story, I'm assuming, for you. It's an experiential thing.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  I listened to a lot of your new album that comes out in January.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 15:27Lewis Howes?

  January, and you're gonna be releasing singles coming up to that. But it's a full book. And there's chapters to the book that tell a story, right?

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, you spend like months on the transitions and the order of the chapters. And making an album is a funny job because you're writing. A book is a great metaphor, but you also need each chapter to be able to stand on its own and be a great short story.

• 15:54Lewis Howes?

  And be a hit.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  You don't need every song you have.

• 15:57Lewis Howes?

  You could need a couple of chapters to potentially be a hit.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Hopefully.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  And it could be a standalone, yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What's the biggest struggle for an artist that's got a hit? And hasn't come back? You've made the money, you've got the recognition, you've got the relationships, but your work isn't being recognized. What was the biggest struggle for you? Did you face depression or any anxiety from that?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I faced depression starting before all that, in high school. Growing up in Michigan, it'd just be gray and dark all the time. I'd go to school before the sun was up. And I would play sports, I'd play basketball. And I, you know, come home, the sun was down already. And I just remember feeling like, what's the point of this? None of this ma- like, nothing matters. And I don't care about anything.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  I still feel that sometimes. Then I used to feel it like for extended periods of time. I'll feel that for a day or something now. So I still grapple with that. Cause I'll have these big projects I started and I would have some days where I'm like, I don't care about this.

• 17:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  At all. And I got like people working on it and stuff.

• 17:10Lewis Howes?

  If you create a project, what makes you not care about it anymore?

• 17:13Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think I get in the mood sometimes where I don't care about anything.

• 17:18Lewis Howes?

  Life.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just like feel low energy.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 17:24Speaker 02

  I spend a lot of time trying to figure that out, you know?

• 17:27Lewis Howes?

  You seem like a happy guy.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  I think I am, uh, uh, most of the time. But I don't wanna sit in your chair and say, I always feel happy, cause that's not real. And there's enough people in the world that do that or pretend like I got the answer. I know I really got the full answer, you know? Everyone, everyone feels some sort of down negativity sometimes, I believe.

• 17:55Lewis Howes?

  Do you think, um, a musician or an artist can be truly, can reach the masses with their art

• 18:04Lewis Howes?

  without feeling a sense of pain or suffering or depression at some point in their life?

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know if anyone can live a life without feeling pain or suffering. Do you?

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  I think we all need to go through challenges.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Can you skate through the like, even the guys that have the trust fund like?

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's always a challenge.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  They're suffering in their life.

• 18:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  At some point, they didn't get what they wanted. Or they got what they didn't want and they felt suffering. Everyone feels it. So Werner Herzog says, "The poet must not avert his eyes." What's that mean? It means that if you're a real artist, you're looking at the beautiful and the divine things in life and you're helping people see them. But you're also looking at the ghastly and the disgusting and you're being honest about it. If an artist is not in touch, in my opinion, with both those things, they're not, they're not a real artist. And people are gonna feel that, they're gonna recognize it. It's not gonna be real. It's not gonna be real.

• 19:10Lewis Howes?

  Who's the greatest musician in your mind? Personal favorite?

• 19:16Speaker 02

  I don't know. I got so many favorite. I think-

• 19:19Lewis Howes?

  Top three?

• 19:19Speaker 02

  I think the greatest songwriter is Bob Dylan.

• 19:23Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Because all my other favorite songwriters, they all say he's the best and they're so influenced by him. So you kinda gotta-

• 19:31Lewis Howes?

  What is it about him that makes him so great?

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Just like once in a generation talent.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  He's got like an unmistakable voice.

• 19:40Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 19:41Speaker 02

  I mean, his writing voice. He also has an unmistakable singing voice, but

• 19:46Speaker 02

  man, you could just can go so deep with this stuff. I mean, you can just there's just layers upon layers in the imagery and the symbolism and the metaphors. It's just like someone says to you, "Listen," you go, "How did he write? How did he do that?"

• 20:04Lewis Howes?

  What about someone in our generation who's someone you really look up to right now who's either well-known or on the up and up?

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, my favorite songwriters, this guy, he's a friend of mine now, but I was a fan first, named Taylor Goldsmith. He's in a band called Dawes. We call it pen game. His pen game is just-

• 20:24Lewis Howes?

  Off the charts.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Off the charts. He has a song called, if anyone wants to check it out, a song called "A Little Bit of Everything." And I'd recommend listening to it twice because most people, when they hear, myself included, when you hear a song, on the first listen, you hear the melody, you hear the textures-

• 20:40Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  And some words.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  And on the second, third listen, you start to hear the words. What makes him special is his lyrics. And second listen, you might be in tears. Him. And then, uh, is another guy named Connor Oberst, who's in a band called Bright Eyes. He's sort of the auteur of that band.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  And

• 21:04Speaker 02

  his lyrics are just crazy, man. They are just crazy.

• 21:07Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I recommend a song by him, "First Day of My Life" by Bright Eyes. That song, I've sung at weddings for friends and I've sung at funerals.

• 21:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  That's how good that song is.

• 21:22Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. Amazing. What about when you started getting more successful? Did you feel like it was easier to make deep, meaningful relationships? Or is it harder once you create that kind of fame for yourself in an industry?

• 21:35Speaker 02

  It can be harder. And this actually, I don't know. I think I gave sort of a long meandering rant to your last question. And I didn't really answer it. But I think this answer sort of answers both, which is when you have a hit song or any, any sort of work you do that becomes very popular. People view you through the lens of that work. So in my case, is I took a pill on the visa, which is a sad song. It's right in the, in the chorus. All I know is sad songs. So people assume that. They, they come in contact with that before they come in contact with me.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  It's not necessarily, like you say, you seem like a happy guy. Usually I am a happy guy. You know, I'll say more than half the time, I feel good. I wrote that song expressing some sadness that I was feeling. It's a good place for me to put my sadness. Product, productive place. Yeah, or a good, good place to put your anger, sadness in the song. Express that. So I think that makes it hard because people have an idea of you before you, before they meet you. And that gets in the way of your art too. Sometimes you start overthinking, oh, everyone loves me for being the sad guy, so maybe I should keep doing that. Got to be real careful with that because then you're not,

• 23:05Speaker 02

  you're basically doing an imitation of your self, former self, you know? You're not evolving. You're not evolving. And Q, who you've had on the show, who's a friend of both of ours, he always says, art is alchemy. I don't know if he said it on your show, but he says all the time. He said, art is alchemy. So you're, you're changing, you're transforming your suffering into something beautiful. And hopefully that adds something to other people's lives when they come in contact with that beauty. But if you're dramatizing or victimizing yourself, you're not alchemizing your suffering. You're just making more of it. And so you always want to be cognizant of that.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Am I creating more beauty or more suffering in the world? Yeah.

• 23:53Lewis Howes?

  Well, Beiza was bringing beauty to people, right? It was kind of bringing hope or inspiration for people maybe in a sad place.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  I hope so, you know. You know, the funny thing is that music is, the song sounds happy. So a lot of times they play it in clubs and people are dancing. They have joyful moments to it. And they're having it out of my suffering.

• 24:14Lewis Howes?

  Even though the lyrics might be sad, they're a dance song, yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is beautiful. It's beautiful because they're having a beautiful moment, a positive experience, out of my pain, my pain at that time. And that's, that's all you can ask for as an artist.

• 24:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  You know, that's the goal.

• 24:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What about, what has death taught you about the value of your life?

• 24:39Speaker 02

  I don't think you can live a good life if you're pretending you're not gonna have a death. And for me, the key is keeping death on my shoulder. We all, we all learn that lesson when someone dies. And if you haven't had someone close die, you will. You, you, you can't escape it, you know? So for me, you know, it was my father a year and a half ago, and then Avicii this year. You know? And then each time, there's a silver lining to it, which is, one, when you miss something, you had something to miss in the first place.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  So if you can shift your attention away from the missing to gratitude, because I had something in the first place. So let's give a concrete example of that. I had a father, and a damn good one, for 29 years. And I got a lot of friends in Detroit that either don't know their fathers, or the father wasn't in their life, or he has a limited role in their life. And I had a full-on father for 29 years. So he's dead now. But I'm grateful I had him for 29 years. And I'm not gonna complain that he's not here for 30, when my homie didn't have one at all.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  I'm just not, you know, I'm grateful I had that. So, there's that. There's that gratitude that you can shift back to relatively easily, you know, when you're feeling grief. In addition, there's this beautiful reminder

• 26:25Speaker 02

  of your own mortality. That's what I believe. Why, I believe why we don't like death so much is because when someone dies is because it reminds us we're gonna die.

• 26:38Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  And that scares us, but it's actually a really great thing. It's a really great thing. And I think we should try to keep death on our shoulder because it makes you live a good life. And it makes you, for me, reminded me, hey, you know all that shit you have a list of that you wanna do one day? You should probably start doing it now.

• 27:01Lewis Howes?

  Now, yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and most of us have a list. You know, I would say ninety-eight percent of people that hear this have two lists. They got the list of the shit they have to do and then a list of the stuff they wanna do when they're done doing what they have to do.

• 27:17Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  And a lot of times, at least it was the case for me, there was really no reason I couldn't start doing the stuff I wanted to do. You know, and I did, and I'm trying to keep doing that, you know. But it's easy to forget. So as I say, you gotta keep death on your shoulder.

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What was the biggest lesson your dad taught you?

• 27:42Speaker 02

  My dad used to always say, there's two H's. Health and happiness. Health and happiness. And, um, a lot of the lessons he would, he'd say the same stuff, or I remember all his words, but I didn't, I didn't really get it until now. And some stuff I'm still getting.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  I remember my dad.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  I asked him once, what are your goals? He said, he goes, I don't have any. He, I have everything I want.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  I love you, mother. I just sit out on the porch. I feel I have everything I want. And at the time, I couldn't hear him because I suspect ninety percent of the people you have on, I'm like trying to win all the time, doing stuff. I'm like creating goals and then chasing them down. And there's nothing wrong with that. But he was just in a totally different headspace and living life with a totally different paradigm, which was like, I'm content. I was at a monastery this summer. I did a retreat in solitude. And I was reading this book by Thich Nhat Hanh there.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  And there's some, I'm paraphrasing from some of the pages, which was, "I'm happy in this moment, and I don't ask for anything in addition to make me more happy. I'm content with this moment." And it was the same, like, here's this month, he's saying the same thing as my dad.

• 29:17Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  You know, it took me some years to get that.

• 29:21Lewis Howes?

  You think you'd be happy if you didn't keep writing songs and keep putting that out there?

• 29:27Speaker 02

  The more I live,

• 29:31Speaker 02

  the more I'm starting to believe that happiness is not a product of what I do.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  That's maybe the biggest lesson is we think if we changed our outside circumstances, like if I get my life just right and all the stuff around me just right, the right job, the right amount of money, the right romantic partner, then I'll be happy. But I'm starting to really believe it goes the other way around, which is if I can figure out how to be happy regardless of what's going on or what I'm doing outwardly, all that stuff works itself out. And a lot of times, it just happens with no effort.

• 30:18Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  The thing you were working so hard, efforting towards, just kind of falls into place. Did your dad pass suddenly, or? So I'm riding the wave of Ibiza. Crushing it. I'm crushing, I'm touring. Top song. I'm touring all over the world. It's a number one song, right? It was number one song like on the radio here. There's different charts. Sure. On Billboard, it wasn't number one. I don't know how high it got on there. I tried not to pay attention. That's pretty good. But they they tell you when you when you get a number one. Yeah, they give you a plaque or something, yeah. Yeah, they make a big deal out of it. Sure. But it was up there. It was big for a year. It was big. It was big and I know now it's the number 10 song on Spotify ever.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Which is crazy. It's crazy. And I'm sure, you know, more big songs, it'll go down, but right now it's it's number 10. That's the thing about number ones is they all go down. At some point, another number one comes. Every single one in history. So I'm riding this way. I'm touring, touring other countries. My band is on point. We're like really, we're really killing shows and um my mom calls and she and my dad had been acting funny, like he'd been forgetting stuff. He was getting lost. And she called and said um they found a tumor the size of a tangerine in dad's forehead and they're gonna take it out tomorrow.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  So I got on the plane, took the red eye to Detroit. I was living in LA at the time. Had the car. The house in the hills, the whole thing.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  I drove or I flew to Detroit.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  I slept for like a few hours. I got there, went to the hospital with my mom. And they were operating on my dad at that time. I sort of just waiting. She hadn't talked to him yet. I saw my dad right before. He went in. He went in. They they won't give you any water right before you get sick, because you need to be dehydrated for some reason. And he kept asking for water. And you know, they put him under and he went in. And then I went to sleep because they were gonna like operate on him for like a bunch of hours. You know, I came back to the hospital and wait with my mom, a bunch of my dad's friends are there.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  And we're all waiting to see if it's cancerous, if the tumor is cancerous or it was just a tumor that wasn't cancerous. There's a word for it benign, I don't know.

• 32:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm not sure.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  And so the doctor came out and basically I'm holding my mom's hand, you know, and she's like, he has glioblastoma. It's doctor talk, so we're like Googling it and stuff. That's fancy word for he has brain cancer. She went home, my mom's hand, and she just starts crying, you know? She's looking at me, I'm like, I kinda wanna cry, but I'm not going to cuz I'm trying to be there for her.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  I basically just moved, I moved back to Detroit. I sold my house. I just stayed there. And then me and my sister would take turns. She lives in New Orleans, so she'd come up. I'd go do shows. She'd go back to New Orleans. She's an attorney there, she work, and then I'd come home. Man, it was, if you're gonna have a death, he had the best when he was home. He wasn't really in pain. We all gotta say goodbye.

• 33:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow, how long after?

• 33:47Speaker 02

  Ten months.

• 33:48Lewis Howes?

  Ten months.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Ten months.

• 33:49Lewis Howes?

  So you lived there for ten months, essentially off and on?

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Correct, correct, yeah. And he died January 11th, 2017. And then it was just cold and I was in Detroit and I was like...

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  It's the worst time to be in Michigan.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  So I was like, I gotta leave.

• 34:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  I've sort of been like on the run since.

• 34:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so your dad passed away in January 2017. You moved out of there, you've been on the run. Do you feel at peace about everything? Or do you feel like you still need closure with things?

• 34:21Speaker 02

  So man, a lot of times, it's really a year and a half ago. I went to Venice, I say on the run. More stuff happened. I moved to Venice.

• 34:29Lewis Howes?

  And then Avicii passed away, when was this? A few months ago, right?

• 34:32Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  It was so sad, man. Did you know?

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I worked with Avicii for a lot of years.

• 34:37Lewis Howes?

  Was the song Ibiza with him?

• 34:39Speaker 02

  It wasn't with him, but it was about, I mentioned him in it.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's right.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  It was all about him, basically. Avicii always liked, he always liked my stuff. So he, like way back before he had Levels, he actually sent me Levels. He was like, can you write a song?

• 34:55Lewis Howes?

  Levels is.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, he was a hitmaster.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  He was. Those Swedish guys, they got.

• 35:05Lewis Howes?

  Freaks.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  We always say something in the water with them because their sense of melody seems to be.

• 35:10Lewis Howes?

  Unbelievable.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Like better than everyone else.

• 35:13Lewis Howes?

  Did you write a song with him or work on any songs?

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, a bunch over the years. Most of them never came out.

• 35:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  But they're working on a Posthumous album for him. So I sent in all my stuff I'd done over the years. I don't know if it'll make it or not. But he was like me, he would do, he would do a million songs and then ten would make it, you know?

• 35:34Lewis Howes?

  I watched this documentary, I don't know if you saw this doc.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  I haven't watched it. I heard it's heartbreaking though.

• 35:38Lewis Howes?

  It's hard, it's amazing to watch behind the scenes, but it's heartbreaking because the guy was touring like three hundred stops a year and he hated it. The anxiety he had, I don't know if you ever saw him, but him just showing it, how much he's like nervous before every event.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:55Lewis Howes?

  And I, it sucks, I wish he would have been able to, someone would have been able to help him or create a structure where he could get over that nerves and anxiety that he felt. Because that's really what drove him to the alcohol and the drugs and to kind of relax.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:08Lewis Howes?

  And the pressure of like, man, but I'm just so good and all these hits that come out when people want to see me. And there's so much money involved in this and that. But after what, four or five years, he was like, I'm retiring, I'm quitting.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  I don't know how, and then it was just kind of like, he retired, he started to get better, but then got worse or something, right?

• 36:26Speaker 02

  I don't know, I, I, I mean, I was in, worked with him like a month before he passed away.

• 36:32Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went to his house.

• 36:34Lewis Howes?

  You're in LA?

• 36:35Speaker 02

  In LA. And.

• 36:37Lewis Howes?

  How did he seem?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  He seemed normal.

• 36:39Lewis Howes?

  He seemed okay, relaxed?

• 36:41Speaker 02

  To me, but you know, I wasn't super close with him. I'd work with him like once a year, you know?

• 36:46Lewis Howes?

  For a couple of days, three days or something?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Couple of days.

• 36:48Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  And we'd write a song. But man, it was like, he seemed normal. We had two rooms going, so like two sessions, you know? People were both working on his stuff, so we'd be writing a song in one room, he'd be in the other room with other people. And.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  They had a chef there, it seemed like everyone was kinda eating healthy and stuff and

• 37:11Speaker 02

  I don't know, man, and I couldn't believe, I couldn't believe it.

• 37:14Lewis Howes?

  A month later.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. Yeah.

• 37:19Lewis Howes?

  He seemed positive, he was able, clear eyes, everything, right? Was he drinking or no?

• 37:24Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 37:25Lewis Howes?

  Clean.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  But that doesn't mean he wouldn't drink at night, I, you know, I have no idea. I have no idea. But it was shocking to me, you know, it was shocking to me. And it made me feel grateful for, I guess, just like the foundation I have in my family. You know, I talked to my mom, she was like, you know, I've always been worried about you. To me, it was like, I always felt pretty secure, like, you know, I have my ups and downs and whatnot, but I never really got into drugs, and I actually, I'm like, pretty, pretty darn straight edge, like, I don't drink or smoke. You know, you always hear those stories of like stars that burn out, you know, like our hero, like Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, it was like, when I was a kid, but I never knew any of my friends, you know.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Passed away, it's like.

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  He was what, twenty-seven?

• 38:15Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  That's what they age twenty-seven, man. A lot of Amy Winehouse, a lot of these people are twenty-seven.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think some people play into it now, too, which is sad. You know, I know at least one person that does that.

• 38:28Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:30Lewis Howes?

  How old are you?

• 38:31Speaker 02

  I'm thirty, man.

• 38:32Lewis Howes?

  You got over the hump.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  I made it.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  I'll be thirty-one, February twelfth.

• 38:38Lewis Howes?

  What was the lesson you took away when Avicii passed away, how did that hit for you?

• 38:41Speaker 02

  It was the same thing, it was like, it was a reminder, cuz it's easy to forget. We're not supposed to talk about death, and I'm glad you asked the question, cuz no one, it's not a usual question, but it's a taboo subject in our culture. If I mentioned it for my mom, she's just, don't talk about that.

• 38:58Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 38:59Speaker 02

  So it's just easy, it's just remind, it was a reminder. You're gonna die too. What are you here for? How are you gonna use your time now? Are you just gonna do like, the normal things? That you're supposed to do, that people tell you should, or are you gonna create the life you want?

• 39:18Lewis Howes?

  What's your purpose?

• 39:21Speaker 02

  I think to share my gifts, I think I do have a gift. Now, I don't know, I don't think it's just natural. I think it's a gift now because I just did it a lot. But I'm definitely the best I've ever been at music right now. Wow. So I think to, to share that. And, you know, the honest answer, more than that, as I was saying that, it didn't feel totally authentic to me. What's the authentic answer? I think it's to find peace in myself and be that when I, when I'm with people. When I'm with you or doing the interview with you or whoever I'm with, is to, is to find my own happiness, my own peace, and then share that.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  I feel like I'm on two journeys right now. There's one journey where I'm like creating, putting the album out, doing interviews, you know, like in press promo mode, I'll go on TV and whatnot. But I'm also on an inner journey, like this summer, where I spent 12 days in solitude at the monastery or I just did this Vipassana meditation retreat and it just kicked my butt. And, uh, those kind of, see, or like I'm, I'm a meditator, so I meditate every day. And that kind of seems like a selfish thing, but it's not. I'm trying to clean up my own mind. I'm trying to clean up all my judgments

• 40:50Speaker 02

  and like my jealousy and my anger. I'm trying to clean all that up so that I can give the, my, the gift of my peace, my happiness to the world. And that gets into my music, that gets into my interviews, that gets into my phone calls and gets into my relationships. And it just echoes out, you know? And I think that is the highest thing, my highest goal, to do that. To clean up my own shit and then share my own light. What's your biggest challenge you face right now in your own life?

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Biggest challenge right now is as I get busier maintaining that. It's a lot easier to be a economist and peaceful at the monastery.

• 41:43Lewis Howes?

  When there's nothing happening.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  And it is to do it when you have a hit and you're touring and.

• 41:49Lewis Howes?

  How do you maintain that peace and balance when you're touring every day? Six months a year, you're writing new songs, you're doing press, everyone wants you. How do you do that?

• 41:59Speaker 02

  I mean, one is your routine, right? So I had to carve out very clearly with my team, my record label. Hey, look, I sleep eight hours a day, I meditate twice a day, I eat this much. You know, I exercise this much, so I have at least this. That's just to give me a shot. Without doing that, I don't even have a shot to stay economist or, you know, I mean. So that's just give me a shot. And then, you know, it's a practice. So as I'm going through the day, not only am I doing all this stuff, but I'm trying to have awareness that I am doing it.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  So I try to keep awareness in some part of my body all day long. Do I forget? Yeah, all the time. But I'm trying to stay aware, stay present as much as I can. When I spend this time in solitude this summer, I realize how addicted I am to thinking. It's the brain just going all day long. So if I, you know, look at a flower, usually my brain's going, oh, that's a rose. This is the last time you saw a rose. I wonder if it smells good. Smell it, doesn't smell as good as it lasts. There's a whole narrative going along between the rose and I.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  And on retreats, at times I was able to quiet my mind. I'm meditating a lot. Those days I'm meditating like five to seven hours a day. You know, I'm just alone, that's all I'm doing. And I had moments where I would see a flower or hear a bird sing or see the moon with no narrative. And it's just cripplingly beautiful. It just bring, you know, bring me to tears. Because that screen, that narrative that's usually between reality and I wasn't there, you know? And so, you know, you're doing that with a flower. You better believe you're doing that with other people. You know, you see a person, even if you don't know them,

• 44:11Speaker 02

  you got a whole narrative running about them. And it's worse with people you know. The more history you have with someone, the more you do that. So, to me, it's a, it's a practice. I sort of try to make a game out of it. How can I just be with people? And when they're speaking to me, can I listen to them and not listening to what the voice in my head is saying about what they're saying? Right? So in Buddhism, they call that deep listening or compassionate listening. And that's a rare thing. And when someone's listening to you that way, you know it, you feel it. And you feel heard. So I was trying to do that, you know? I'm a novice. But I've, I've done it at times, it feels good.

• 44:52Lewis Howes?

  That's great, man. What's a song off your new album? Can you play one for us?

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:58Lewis Howes?

  Can you play us something?

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:59Lewis Howes?

  With the guitar? Or if you want a different chair, whatever you want?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  I like to stand.

• 45:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, do your thing.

• 45:34Speaker 03

  I think I'll buy a gun and blame it on my hometown It's so cold in the deal

• 45:43Speaker 03

  She asks me if I think I'll ever see her again I say hopefully

• 45:53Speaker 03

  Maybe that's how it's supposed to be

• 45:58Speaker 03

  Maybe that's how it's supposed to be

• 46:03Speaker 03

  My heroes all died young, they hung themselves with fame And these lunatics molded me

• 46:12Speaker 03

  I've got a tattoo, it's a joke I keep a secret I need everyone to notice me

• 46:22Speaker 03

  But maybe that's how it's supposed to be

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Maybe that's how it's supposed to be

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Maybe that's how it's supposed to be Maybe that's how it's supposed to be

• 46:42Speaker 03

  I think I'll die young

• 46:47Speaker 03

  With all my broken dreams

• 46:52Speaker 03

  I've got it figured out

• 46:56Speaker 03

  This is the golden key

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Everything is how it's supposed to be

• 47:06Speaker 03

  I think this is how it's supposed to be

• 47:11Speaker 03

  We messed it all up, now the world is getting warmer Soon LA will be out at open sea

• 47:20Speaker 03

  Meanwhile I'm falling down, my heart is getting colder I hurt everyone close to me

• 47:30Speaker 03

  But maybe that's how it's supposed to be Maybe that's how it's supposed to be

• 47:40Speaker 03

  Maybe that's how it's supposed to be.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Maybe that's how it's supposed to be.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  I think I'll die young.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  With all my broken dreams.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  I've got it figured out.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  This is the golden key.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  The day my daddy died.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  I was down the street.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  I lost my only friend.

• 48:23Speaker 03

  People don't grow on trees. But I think that's the way it's supposed to be. Yeah, everything is how it's supposed to be.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  Whoa, whoa.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  Whoa, whoa.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  Whoa, whoa. Everything is how it's supposed to be.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  I think this is how it's supposed to be.

• 49:12Lewis Howes?

  My man.

• 49:15Lewis Howes?

  I like that jazz chord at the end.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 49:18Lewis Howes?

  It's clean, man.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  The major seven.

• 49:20Lewis Howes?

  Is that what it is, major seven?

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Major seven.

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I don't know enough about music, but I can play some campfire songs, you know?

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:26Lewis Howes?

  I can get around in a bonfire, you know what I mean? I used to play a lot back in the day. I mean, a lot of pop songs I can play if I have the chords, but... Let me see. Let me see this thing. I haven't played in a long time, though. I really like Joni Mitchell a lot.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  You do, man?

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  I really like Joni.

• 49:45Speaker 03

  I just got into her.

• 49:46Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh. I used to sing a song. I don't know if I can play it anymore, but...

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  Case of You? Case of You is amazing. My sister Heidi was like... I think so.

• 50:34Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 50:36Lewis Howes?

  Forget how the rest goes.

• 50:41Lewis Howes?

  But I like listening to you.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  He's very close with how you're doing.

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's been a while, man. A little rusty.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  We nailed it.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  It is something.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  She liked it.

• 52:24Lewis Howes?

  It was cool, man.

• 52:27Lewis Howes?

  Purple Rain?

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  Have you seen Purple Rain ever?

• 52:41Speaker 03

  I've never seen it before.

• 52:43Lewis Howes?

  Never seen it before, Prince?

• 52:46Speaker 03

  I've heard it.

• 52:47Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, you'd be amazing at that. See, you can hit those notes.

• 53:10Lewis Howes?

  Man, I'm trying to think of songs right now.

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  What could I sing with him?

• 53:17Lewis Howes?

  I might know another song of his.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  Old pirates, yeah, they're all by thought I'd come to merchant ships.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  Minutes after they took our from the bottomless pit. But my hand was made strong.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  By the end of the almighty we flower in this generation. And goes to be triumphant. So won't you help to sing the CD? These songs of freedom. Cause all I ever have.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Redemption's soul.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  Redemption's soul. And it hangs on me.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  Back to the verse.

• 54:27Speaker 03

  Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves could be our minds. Have no fear for atomic energy. Cause none of them can stop the tide. How long will they kill our brothers? While we stand aside and look. Ooh, some say it's just a part of it. We got to fulfill the book. But won't you help to sing? These souls of freedom is all I ever had.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  Redemption's all. Redemption's all. Redemption.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  There goes the bridge, E minor. Then C D.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  It hangs out. Then back to verse.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves could be our minds. Have no fear for atomic energy. Cause none of them can stop the tide. How long will they kill our brothers? While we stand aside and look. Ooh, some say it's just a part of it. We got to fulfill the book. But won't you help to sing? These souls of freedom is all I ever had.

• 56:29Lewis Howes?

  My man, that was fun, man. I've played in a long time. That's fun. A song like that, I can play.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  I can see you ripping the campfire, dude.

• 56:43Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean? It used to be, it was probably like eight years ago when I'd play though, like, often. I remember I taught myself, uh, my freshman year of college. Taught myself.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you did.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  Cause I would, my brother.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Where'd you go to school?

• 56:55Lewis Howes?

  I went to a bunch of different schools, but I went to a school, a small liberal art school in Illinois called Principia College. And I went to a school in Columbus, Ohio called Capital University. But my brother's the number one jazz violinist in the world. So I grew up listening to him play jazz violin and feeling like I was ignorant until I learned an instrument, cause I didn't know an instrument. And I remember, what did I learn? Gosh, I don't even know how to play it anymore, but I can't remember any of this stuff. I learned, um, I didn't even really learn how to play it that well. Um, gosh, by Kansas. What was like the love song by Kansas? Oh, Dust in the Wind, I think I learned. How'd it go?

• 57:40Lewis Howes?

  Do you know how to play it?

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 57:43Lewis Howes?

  I can't remember how to do it.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  You've been playing longer than me.

• 57:51Lewis Howes?

  Nah, I can't remember. I'm getting everything mixed up now. But I used to learn like these like, you know, love songs and campfire songs and anything I could at that time. Once I learned like four chords and I was like, oh, you can play lots of stuff. But originally I just wanted to learn songs.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:06Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, oh, okay, let me get into this a little more. But I was never good enough with like the finger stuff or like playing solos. I tried blues chords and I just could never really get it. And I didn't love, uh, my voice wasn't good enough to be like, uh.

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  If I could really sing, then I maybe I'd get more into it.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  You can learn that too.

• 58:23Lewis Howes?

  It's hard, man. I know. I was in choir for years, but it never really got that good. I can hit on pitch, but yeah, it just never sounded that good. Anyways, dude, this was awesome, man.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  Thank you, man.

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it, man.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me on. It's a real honor, man.

• 58:36Lewis Howes?

  I got a couple final questions for you.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Please.

• 58:38Lewis Howes?

  What's the lyric? If you had one message, if you could only sing one more song to the world, let's say this is your last moment, many years from now, but it's your last day, you know it's your last day. You've done everything you want to do in your life. You've written all the songs, you've had all the experiences, you've connected with all the people, you've traveled. But you can only share one phrase of a song. It could be a chorus, it could be like-

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Does it have to be mine?

• 59:11Lewis Howes?

  It could be yours, or it could be someone else's. What would be the line or the sentence that you would share? That you'd want the world, to be your last song that you would sing of a piece of a song?

• 59:22Speaker 02

  So for me, I've thought about this a lot.

• 59:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  I haven't written that song for me yet. But the song I would sing is the one, when we just play redemption song. That's tied for my favorite song ever. And the line from it would be,

• 59:47Speaker 02

  emancipate yourself from mental slavery, no but ourselves can free our mind.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  You know?

• 59:57Speaker 02

  This is all stuff we were talking about before. And it's not, it's not, that line applies to anyone, to everyone. As soon as you get caught up in a concept, you know, you're trapped, you're slave to that concept, so.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  That would be it. That song to me is like, it's a perfect song. And I remember listening to that song a few years ago and thinking to myself, I know all of these words, they're all in my vocabulary. I can play all the chords, I can hit all the notes. So why, why didn't I write a song that good yet? And uh, it's because I had to do that inner work that I'm doing now. And so, the deeper I go, the further I go inside, I think the closer I get to my redemption song.

• 1:00:49Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's cool, man. That's real cool. I like, I like that you're doing the work on yourself. And taking time off to really reflect more.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:58Lewis Howes?

  And give your mind and your heart and your soul the nurturing and the, the food that it needs to thrive and grow.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  That's how I think it's a direct, that's what I'm like telling my manager. He's like, you tell us Tom, like, it's not off though. It's not off. I have to do it.

• 1:01:18Lewis Howes?

  Every athlete needs an off season where they reflect, train in different ways to strengthen their body and their mind and, and get stronger for the next season. So. This is a question I ask him when I'm at the end. It's called the three truths. Based on everything you've learned in your life and experiences, imagine all the songs you've written, you've got to take with you. No one has access to them anymore.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  All your words, you've put it out there, but now you've got to take it with you.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:01:48Lewis Howes?

  As your last day. You've got, you've got to die with your, your songs with you, right?

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:01:52Lewis Howes?

  But you get to write down your final truths. Three lessons that you would share with the world, or I like to call it your three truths. Um, and again, you've achieved everything, done everything you want to do, but you've got to take all your work with you. And you can leave behind three truths. What would you say are your three big lessons to share with the world?

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  What a question, man.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  First truth would be, these smiles don't

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  result from good things, they result in good things.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  Second truth would be

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Nietzsche is Polly for the language that Buddha spoke. Polly for everything impermanence. Everything's impermanent. When you really look at things, there's nothing to hold on to. Really, nothing. I mean, whatever you think is sturdy in your life is really not. And so

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  whether it's a relationship or a job or what you name it, it's gonna end at some point.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  And the sooner you can make peace with that, we can make peace with that. Because I'm not done making peace with that.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  The more, the more elegantly you can ride the waves of life and the waves of life and death. Third truth.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  I think I'll use my dad for the third one.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Help and happiness.

• 1:03:36Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you so much, man.

• 1:03:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man. I want to acknowledge you, Mike, for a moment because you have such a a childlike spirit about you, a curiosity, a kindness, and a wonder towards making music and making art and expressing yourself. And I think it's a lost art in making art. And a lot of us are focused on career and goals and other things, but we forget to take time to reflect and express ourselves in a creative way. And you've done a beautiful job of expressing yourself by everything, your way of being, the way you show up, your hair, your beard is an art, you know.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  Your performances, your communication style, like everything for you feels like an expression of your art. So I acknowledge you for showing others what's possible in them by being true to yourself.

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  That means a lot.

• 1:04:31Lewis Howes?

  Being consistent, yeah, man.

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:04:33Lewis Howes?

  Of course. How can we follow you and support you? You've got an album, you're gonna be doing Walking Across America next year.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:39Lewis Howes?

  Doing a walking tour.

• 1:04:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Lewis Howes?

  You've got songs coming out soon. Where do you, where can we listen to your music? Do you Spotify, iTunes, all the?

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say, um. Anywhere there's music, my new stuff will be, I'm sure when we put this out, I may have a new song out, may not, maybe close.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  Depending on our release date.

• 1:05:01Lewis Howes?

  They can follow you on Spotify right now and it'll be there.

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, follow me on Spotify, I think that's the best.

• 1:05:06Lewis Howes?

  It's Mike Posner over on Spotify.

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  Mike Posner, P-M-I-K-E-P-O-S-N as in Nancy-E-R. And I'm on the Instagram, same thing. I'm a sort of haphazard poster.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  Because sometimes I just hate my phone, but sometimes I'm on there.

• 1:05:30Lewis Howes?

  So we'll follow you there, obviously iTunes and all other places. But anywhere music listen to, you can check.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  I would say the biggest thing though, January 11th, man, my new album. If you really, if something about this lied with you, the new album. You know, I'm gonna put out singles before, basically to draw attention to that. But this album is by far the best thing I ever made. And I'm super proud of it, I'm super proud of it. So I would say, listen, if you've got 40 minutes, it's 40 minutes to listen to that thing. And I don't think you'll regret it, you might, you know.

• 1:06:08Lewis Howes?

  No, it's beautiful, man, your lyrics are unbelievable. Even if, even if it's not your style of music that Mike does, his lyrics in this really make you think. You know, you and Adam are in Q, reminding me a lot of each other and the way you guys construct your words and your poetry about just raising the consciousness level of like what we're doing in our daily lives. And you say it in a poetic way with the melody that brings in, it just sparks curiosity and it opens the spirit up to think differently about our lives. I think that's what's powerful about what you do, what NQ does.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  We borrow from each other.

• 1:06:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. I was listening to it in the car with him and he was just like freaking out. To have some, him freak out when he's one of the greatest stage poet performers I've ever seen. To have him freak out about lyrics and be inspired by your lyrics was, I was like, whoa, okay, that's impressive.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Thank you, man. Yeah, well, I've definitely been inspired a lot by him. I did a poetry album because of him.

• 1:07:11Lewis Howes?

  You did?

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I used to do a poem each show last year, all because of him, man.

• 1:07:16Lewis Howes?

  He's great.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Never did it.

• 1:07:18Lewis Howes?

  He's great. And you do little pop-up tours every now and then so people can follow you on your website and see like tour dates and all that stuff.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Correct, correct.

• 1:07:26Lewis Howes?

  Final question for you, and then I'd love for you to play, if you're down, to finish with a song. And it could be seated or whatever, but I'd love for you to finish with a song. Do you have one of Avicii's songs?

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I learned, I learned as adults, I don't, people, you know, I really know like my songs.

• 1:07:43Lewis Howes?

  Your songs, got it, got it.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  And even some of my songs that I wrote before I played guitar, I don't know. So I'm like, I gotta learn all those still.

• 1:07:52Lewis Howes?

  Well, let's do this first. I love your definition of greatness. What does it mean to you?

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Presence. Presence. So if you look at life, most of the time, I like to think of it like a graph. Like there's an X-axis and that's like what you're doing over time. And the Y-axis is how present you are while you're doing it. And so, um. Man, you can be, you can be like making a bunch of money and very successful or the old cliche, man, and not happy. Or you can be like doing nothing, you can be literally sitting in a chair, meditating and be happy.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  So to me, it's like, it doesn't matter what you're doing that much. Like the old proverb, before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. And so what does that mean? It means it doesn't, it's the, you don't necessarily need to change what you're doing, you're changing how you're doing it. Changing how you're doing it. So the more present you can be, is I think the greater you are.

• 1:09:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. My pleasure. Thanks, brother.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  Yes, thank you, man.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  This is, uh, "Stuck in the Middle."

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  Perfume on my shirt

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  Puts me in the past

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  Too tough to be without her

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  But too afraid to ask

• 1:09:51Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle

• 1:10:07Speaker 03

  Too young to settle down

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  Too old to be in bars

• 1:10:17Speaker 03

  It's hard to take it easy It's easy to be hard

• 1:10:29Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle

• 1:10:38Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle

• 1:10:56Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle

• 1:11:04Speaker 03

  Forgive me, I am building my ship as it sells How do I become who I wanna be while still remaining myself?

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  People love the old me

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  I don't know where he's gone

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  Too tired to be famous

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  Too vain to be unknown

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:11:45Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  Here I am again, stuck in the middle.

• 1:12:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah! Mike Posner in the house, baby, yeah! Smash it!

• 1:12:16Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate you, man. Thanks, bro. That was dope. Yeah. That was dope.