665 Jordan Peterson on Pain and Suffering

“When you love someone, you not only love them despite their fragility: but also because of it.” One of the hardest things you have to deal with in life is watching someone close to you suffer from an illness. Especially if you’re a parent. Although I’ve never had the experience of seeing my child suffer, I’ve had close loved ones go through the pain. It’s this time in life that either makes or breaks you. You have to be strong, not just for you, but also for them. That doesn’t mean you should discourage their vulnerability. You still need to embrace it, and there is a delicate balance in doing so. It’s also important to be there to support them and let them know that they are not a victim. They are still as strong as they want to be. If they fall into that victim mentality, it’s game over. They begin to lose their character in their illness. To dive into this more, I brought back Dr. Jordan Peterson. This is part two of my interview with Dr. Peterson. If you missed the last episode, go back and listen. In this part of my interview, Jordan dove into what it was like watching his child suffer with an debilitating illness. He talks about the lessons he learned as a professional, as well as a father. We discuss how his entire family was affected, and how he was able to teach is daughter to stay strong and vulnerable. This is a powerful episode, and you need to listen to it because there are valuable lesson you will need to use one day. Learn how you can avoid the victim mentality when an illness hits, on Episode 665. Some Questions I Ask: What’s the biggest challenge you’ve had to overcome? (5:16) How does mapping out your time play into the self authoring program? (9:09) Did your daughter feel responsible for causing all of the pain? (13:18) Is there anything that you wish you had done differently with your children? (21:22) Did you ever doubt yourself, in terms of your ability? (26:56) What’s your biggest fear now? (35:18) In This Episode You Will Learn: How to emotionally navigate seeing your child suffer (7:42) How to focus on your career at the same time as dealing with a loved one’s illness (11:03) What Jordan taught his daughter at an early age about her illness (16:06) How Dr. Peterson feels about his daughter’s experience (23:48) How his daughter’s health affected his career (30:27) Dr. Peterson’s plan moving forward (40:22) Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 665 with bestselling author Dr. Jordan Peterson.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Aristotle said, "Suffering becomes beautiful when anyone bears great calamities with cheerfulness, not through insensibility, but through greatness of minds." We are back with the second part of this two-part series with Dr. Jordan Peterson. And for those that don't know who Dr. Jordan Peterson is, he's a professor at the University of Toronto, a clinical psychologist, and author of 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, which has sold over a million and a half copies in the last six months. And he has taken the world over by storm. Make sure to check out part one of this series, which is all about responsibility and meaning. We went deep in that episode, and this is picking up on the second part of that first one.

• 1:16Lewis Howes?

  This is all about how to deal with something that is brutally painful. And Dr. Jordan Peterson dives into some of the most painful and emotional parts of his life, and how he's dealt personally with suffering with his own life and with the lives of those closest around him. Also, how to avoid a victim mentality when illness strikes. We dive in deep on this topic and how most people focus on this mentality, and they're never going to live a great life because of that. Also, why we should keep children vulnerable and teach them to be strong. Some important topics on that about kids and raising children as well, no matter how much challenge they may be facing.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  I'm super excited about this one. Make sure you guys check it out. Part one first. Share this with your friends as well. This is lewishowes.com/665. Tag myself, @lewishowes, and Dr. Jordan Peterson over on Instagram and Twitter to let us know that you're listening and what you think about it during this episode as well.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  What's been the biggest challenge in your life that you've had to overcome? Or the biggest suffering that took you the longest to get beyond to improve?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Oh, I think that was probably, and I wrote about this in the last chapter of my book, which is called Pet a Cat When You Encounter One in the Street. And it's about, it's about dealing with, you know, you think, what's the worst thing that can happen to you? Well, I think the worst thing is that you do something really horrible and you screw up your life and everyone's life around you. That's, that's bad.

• 2:55Lewis Howes?

  You have to live with it.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. And you have to live with knowing you did it. It's like, that's rough, man. That's sin.

• 3:00Lewis Howes?

  It's worse than dying, because then you don't remember.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Right, right. There are worse things than dying.

• 3:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there are.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yes, there are. No, no, that's, that's a bad, that bad thing, man. But, but I think the hardest existential situation that I've been in is the situation with my daughter, because she was very, very ill. And she had rheumatoid arthritis. She had arthritis. It wasn't rheumatoid type. And she had 40 affected joints that had started to bother her when she was two. But it really manifested itself fully when she was six. And some of the medical treatment helped, but when she was 15, 14, 14 through 16, first her hip disintegrated.

• 3:42Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  And so she had that replaced after walking around on it for like a good year. And then her ankle disintegrated on her other foot and she had to have it replaced. And so there were two years of absolutely brutal pain for her. Like brutal, daily, excruciating pain. And we were really running around trying to figure out what to do about it, because the hip wasn't too hard to replace, you know? Because surgeons are actually pretty good at hip replacements. But ankles are still

• 4:10Lewis Howes?

  So many bones.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Touch and go.

• 4:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so, and just watching that and, and, well, watching what it was doing to her, because she was in enough pain, at one point it just about broke her. You know, and I mean, you know, you and I, you've probably been in a situation where you were in pain for a night and couldn't sleep. It's like, yeah, fine. So multiply that by five and extend it over two years. Jesus Christ, yeah, and she was on like huge doses of opiates and so that was sedating her and so that made her look drunk in public and she can only stay awake for about six hours a day and she had to take Ritalin to stay awake because otherwise she was just sleeping all the time and and it was a very bad autoimmune condition and so it wasn't only manifesting in the joint deterioration and the pain because arthritis is also very painful and forty joints happens to be quite a lot.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh, just one joint.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  It was brutal, yeah, right, no, it was absolutely brutal beyond belief.

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  As a father or a parent, how do you navigate that emotionally yourself?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's what that chapter is about. I mean, so what do you do when when things are too much? Well, one of the answers is you narrow your timeframe. And the other answer is you look for occasions of grace and beauty where you can get them. So when she had a dog, that really helped.

• 5:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  You know, so that was something that was with her all the time and we tried to put things in her life that she could care for. She had a whole raft of pets, although she was allergic to almost everything, so most of them were lizards. Well, yeah, I know. We get her a guinea pig.

• 5:38Lewis Howes?

  You can never have a fluffy puppy.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Here's a guinea pig. It's like, oh, I love this guinea pig. It's such a white.

• 5:42Lewis Howes?

  I'm in pain.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  And then, you know, three hours later, she'd have a big rash and we'd have to take the guinea pig to the pet store.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  Like hairless dog or something.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  So the dog, luckily, the dog she could tolerate and so we had the dog for her. But what one of the things you do when you're in a situation like that, it's just a bloody ongoing nightmare, is that you shrink your timeframe. It's like, well, what are we going to do in a year? It's like, oh, God, we can't even think about that.

• 6:05Lewis Howes?

  Think about tomorrow or a week.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, a week, tomorrow, today, the next hour. Yeah, so that's what you have to do. You shrink, you shrink your timeframe till you can tolerate it.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  So you're not planning out years because then you'll go crazy.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's too much uncertainty. You think, okay, how can I make the next hour the least amount of awful possible? That's what you do at someone's deathbed. You know, you shrink your timeframe and that's what you have to do.

• 6:29Lewis Howes?

  How does that play into the self-authoring program? If you have this vision for yourself and you're mapping out a year, two, three, five years ahead.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, sometimes, you know.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  You have to re-navigate.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. You have to re-navigate. You have to say no.

• 6:41Lewis Howes?

  Fit it into that.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, because even the best-laid plans of mice and men go astray. You know, I mean, that's part of being alive. And so you have your map, but you know, if you get a flat tire along the way, you still have to stop and fix your car. Maybe the bloody thing bursts into flames and you have to get a new car.

• 6:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  You know, so I mean, your ascent towards your goals can be punctuated by unexpected catastrophe. And then, well, then hopefully you've made yourself into a resilient person at that point. And the catastrophe is no worse than it has to be, and you're not making it worse. I mean, one of the things we were fortunate about is that by the time she got really ill, my relationship with my wife was pretty well put together. And my relationship with my son, who's younger than her, was also well put together. And so he was an absolute trooper, man. Because most of, for a lot of his teenage life in particular, there was a huge amount of focus on the suffering of his sister. And we were like right up to here with that. It was just, it was enough. And he conducted himself admirably.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  He didn't, if he caused trouble, we didn't know about it. He kept it to himself, you know, and I don't mean he was hiding. I mean, he dealt with it.

• 7:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  And he spent a lot of time at home and he didn't do any unnecessarily stupid things. And he put up with his sister and his parents, who were on edge a lot, without adding additional catastrophe and misery and grief to it. And when she was a little bit crazy and was leaning on him too hard or bothering him, he was there to support her and it was massively helpful. My wife and I weren't any more crazy towards each other than we had to be. And so there wasn't like any additional stress during those periods of time would have sunk us.

• 8:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. Any extra would have been like, I'm done.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  That's right, that's right.

• 8:24Lewis Howes?

  How were you able to compartmentalize or just focus on your, your? Career at that time, you know, lecturing or writing or whatever it may be at that time.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Well, that's also part of the vision of hell. It's like, well, what's the alternative? You let things go and you make them worse. It's like.

• 8:40Lewis Howes?

  Not showing up and yeah, just.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  No, no, there's no excuse for that. It's like.

• 8:43Lewis Howes?

  So how did you, how did you say, was there a compartmentalizing of like, okay, it's nine o'clock or eight o'clock in the morning, I'm going to work?

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:50Lewis Howes?

  And then.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we made rules and we talked about some of them, like some of the rules were, uh, we didn't talk about my daughter, daughter's illness after eight o'clock at night. That was the rule. It's like, no.

• 9:00Lewis Howes?

  Your sanity.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Well, we, it's a, it's a war. You wear yourself out in a week, you're dead and, and everyone suffers a lot. So you've got to keep going through however long this is going to be. And so what, yeah, what do you have to do? Well, you have to sleep. You have to sleep or things are gonna go bad.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  And sleep.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. It's time to stop talking and go to sleep.

• 9:18Lewis Howes?

  So you had a time cutoff.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, and I had learned some of that because I've been a clinical psychologist for a long time. And so I've been dealing with people's problems and you learn how to, you know, you think, well, how can you go home when, when you have all of those problems to contend with? It's like, well, A, they're not your problems.

• 9:34Lewis Howes?

  They're not going away right now.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  No, and they're not going away. And having them bring you down is not helping the person who has the problem. It's the same with, with my daughter. It's like had my wife and I deteriorated as a consequence of her condition. A, that would have been horrible for her because then she would have had to bear the weight of watching her illness destroy her family, right?

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  And have that guilt and shame.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Oh, Christ, yes. I mean, that's one of the terrible things about having a, a very bad illness is that not only does it do you in, but you can see it taking its toll on the people around you. I think that might even be worse. I mean, this is gradations of hell, but so you also can't allow that to happen. If you have a loved person around you and they're ill, you have a moral obligation not to let it tear you down. Because then it's on them. That's no good. And you think, well, how can you remain healthy and strong in the face of the terrible suffering of someone who's close to you? It's like, well.

• 10:26Lewis Howes?

  Well, you want us both to suffer?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Then, well, that's it. The alternative is worse.

• 10:30Lewis Howes?

  You want me to get sick and get overweight and not be able to take care of you or me?

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Right. And then we, then we both drown faster. Right. Not helpful.

• 10:38Lewis Howes?

  Did she ever go through a place of, I guess, I guess some people do this where. You know, kids who have some type of autoimmune or some type of disease or whatever it may be, they didn't necessarily, you know, they were born with it or it happened somehow. It's not like they ate something themselves. They weren't necessarily responsible, you'd say, right? I mean, was she responsible for causing all these, you know, all the pain in her body? Or was it just something that happened?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Well, that's what we told her. It's just, well, this life, kid, it's not you. We also told her very, very, many, many times. And we were very careful about this. Do not use your illness as an excuse. As soon as you do that, you can't tell the difference between the illness and your character. That's right. So don't let it turn you into a victim. Even though it's, obviously, it's a catastrophe. Like, we were very clear about that and it wasn't her fault. You know, but that she still had to bear up under it as well as possible and to do everything she could and not use it as an excuse. And we talked to her about that a lot and we're clear about it. Because, and I've seen this, it's one of the things I really dislike about what the universities are doing with disability. It's like, everybody gets a disability.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  It's like, well, no wonder, because people have hard lives, you know? It's like, it's very rare to find someone who isn't suffering under an undue load of some sort. There's something wrong with them.

• 11:57Lewis Howes?

  Pressure and anxiety, whatever. It's like any type of...

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Or there's something wrong in their family that's serious or they have terrible economic pressure. Like, there's something wrong. It's like, okay, we should make allowances for you. It's like, oh, yeah? What allowances? What exactly does that entitle me to? Well, I tell you, man, that's a murky place you do not want to go. Because then you don't know anymore. It's like, well, what's my responsibility? I mean, I have this undue burden to bear. Well, how does that mitigate my responsibility? Well, the answer is, as little as possible. You don't go there because you get confused. And as soon as you get confused, well, then the illness has not only got you physiologically, it's got you psychologically. And then you're in deep trouble. And to her great credit, as far as I can tell...

• 12:41Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say she never used her illness as an excuse because never is a lot, you know? Or never is an extreme. But she certainly withstood the temptation to do it habitually and to warp her character as a consequence. And she did figure out what was wrong with her and fixed it. And so now she doesn't have any of these. She's healthy now, while she still has some residual damage from everything that happened. Like, I just found out yesterday. She went to Chicago to have her ankle checked out because it isn't working very well. And they told her that she had to have the old replacement taken out and a new one put in. So, but, but in her realm of catastrophe, that actually constitutes news that's not as bad as it could be.

• 13:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  So, strangely enough. So, it's not like she's out of the woods, but...

• 13:26Lewis Howes?

  So, you taught her from an early age, though? And sorry to cut you off.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Yep, no, no, no.

• 13:29Lewis Howes?

  That even though she had a, you know, let's just, for the state of the conversation, a physical disability, right? She wasn't as able-bodied physically as the majority of people. Is that clear to say? That you told her, like, never allow that to give you special privileges.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Well, never allow that to be, never, no, it wasn't that exactly. It was never use that as an excuse to not do something you could do.

• 13:53Lewis Howes?

  Even with the challenge, yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Yes, because it's the, there's a deception element there. It's like, well, I don't want to do that. And I have this illness.

• 14:02Lewis Howes?

  Maybe I can get away with it.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  That's right. Don't use your illness as a means of getting away with something. Because you'll blur the line.

• 14:09Lewis Howes?

  Because then you'll constantly use that for the rest of your life.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Right, and if you do that a hundred times, you'll be so confused about what's illness and what's, and what's not, that you'll not know. You won't know anymore. And maybe you won't be able to figure it out again. And then you're in a very bad place. There were some things that she had to have done that were allowances. Like, when she was doing exams, she had to type. Because she couldn't write.

• 14:31Lewis Howes?

  She couldn't write, yeah.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  And she couldn't sit on the floor cross-legged. So she had to sit in a chair, like, things that she actually couldn't do.

• 14:38Lewis Howes?

  But she still did the work.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yes, she did everything she could.

• 14:40Lewis Howes?

  She still did the work and just said, "Oh, I can't take the test."

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:43Lewis Howes?

  "I can't do the exam at all."

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:44Lewis Howes?

  But she was able to do it with different circumstances.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yes, right, right, right. And so, and, and the consequence of that was that once she, she figured out that most of what was causing her, what, what was bothering her, all of it, by the looks of it, was a consequence of a, a set of extreme sensitivities to almost every sort of food. So she hardly eats anything now. The only thing she eats is beef. That's it. Beef, salt, water. That's it. Nothing else.

• 15:09Lewis Howes?

  That's it?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it. And she's been eating that way for, well, mostly for about three years, but almost completely for a year.

• 15:16Lewis Howes?

  And she feels fine?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  She's 100%. She has no symptoms.

• 15:19Lewis Howes?

  No vegetables, no supplements?

• 15:20Speaker 01

  No, that's it. Beef, salt. I'm serious. She never cheats.

• 15:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Never.

• 15:25Lewis Howes?

  Well, because she doesn't want to feel pain and suffering.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Yes, well, it takes, if she eats the wrong thing, she has a terrible, a catastrophic emotional and physical reaction for a month.

• 15:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Does she essentially eliminate all food and try one thing at a time until, "Okay, that didn't work, let's try this"?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Yes, and it took about three years to figure it out. So, yes, wow is right. I can't, it's absolutely beyond comprehension. It's a diet that I follow almost, almost entirely now as well.

• 15:48Lewis Howes?

  Just beef, salt and water?

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Yes. I've been eating that way for about three months and I've been on an extremely low carb diet for about two, two and a half years, something like that. Both my wife and I have autoimmune symptoms.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  And she got all of them.

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Your daughter, yeah.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Yes, so she got all of them.

• 16:03Lewis Howes?

  So it was like the worst of worst magnified by a thousand or something like that?

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right. So, and so, but when she sorted out what was wrong, she convinced me to also try what she was doing and it's been extraordinarily helpful for me too.

• 16:14Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Who would have guessed it? So anyway, so what you do when things are too much for you is you, you narrow your timeframe.

• 16:21Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  I, also, in, in chapter 12, there's a fair bit of discussion in there about fragility and vulnerability, which is really what you confront when you have a sick kid. It's like, "Oh my God, how can the world be constituted so that a child can unfairly suffer in this manner"? It's like, "Okay, here's a way of thinking about it." All right, take away everything from your child that makes them vulnerable. Let's say I have a three-year-old. It's like, well, three-year-olds, they're kind of cute. They run around, they're little and they're vulnerable, obviously. But that makes them cute and attractive and lovable. All of the vulnerability that's built into that. So you think, well, you remove that one by one. Well, they're eight foot tall now and they're made out of steel. And their parts are replaceable and they have artificially intelligent brain. Like, you replace them, obviously, this is hypothetical,

• 17:06Speaker 01

  with a superhuman robot that doesn't die. It's like, fine, but where's the three-year-old? Right. So one of the things I thought about when I was writing this was, when you love someone, especially, well, when you love someone, you love them not only despite their fragility, but also because of it. And so then that's the price you pay for it. It's like, well, they wouldn't be who they were if they weren't fragile and limited in their particular way. And the fact you like to have them around, you think, oh, well, that, I mean, I guess you think that that fragility and vulnerability is justifiable. It's like, well, then you can't allow that its existence to make you bitter. Because you can't have it both ways.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  You can't have them being vulnerable and cute and interesting and small and needing care, but striving to develop and grow. You can't have that without them also being prone to pain and destruction and vulnerability. And so, take your choice. And then what do you do? You teach them to be strong. That's what you do. You don't get rid of the vulnerability. You teach them to be strong. That's also a theme that runs through the book in many, many ways. Is that's, you don't protect your children. In fact, you do the opposite. You expose them to the world as much as you possibly can. And you make them strong. That's the best antidote to their vulnerability, not to protect them. There's no protecting people. We already established that. Life's a fatal game.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  There's no protecting people. But you can definitely make them strong. And maybe you can make them strong enough to transcend that. That's the goal, man.

• 18:41Lewis Howes?

  Is there anything that you wish you would have done differently with your daughter or your son that you didn't do?

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Not of any great significance. I mean, I have I have wishes, I suppose, from time to time, things could have been different. I I spent less time on the positive aspects of my son and my daughter. Because we were contending with catastrophe so frequently. And so, you know, my, both my kids have a variety of interesting talents and it would have been better, perhaps, to have had the time to develop those more thoroughly. But, you know, and my son,

• 19:21Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say he didn't get as much attention as he needed. He didn't get as much attention as I would have liked to have paid him. But by the same token, it isn't obvious that it's been bad for him, because it required him from a very early age to grow the hell up. And we relied on him right from the time he was a young kid to make intelligent decisions. We assumed he would make intelligent decisions. He was consulted with regards to decisions. And so,

• 19:47Speaker 01

  and it also made him into someone who is, who is very self-sufficient and capable of taking care of himself. So, it might have been nicer for me, I suppose, to have spent more time with him. But he lives down the street from me now, and I spend time with him, and we have a great relationship. And so it's just, it's, you know, and he has a very good relationship with his sister. So it turned out as well as it could have. Right. But that didn't mean that those years in there, they were brutal. There were some brutal times, man. It's one night in particular, like she was in absolutely, absolute agony, and I couldn't get it under control. And I could see, well, because I am a clinician, I could see, I thought, god damn it, I'm gonna end up taking her to CAMH, that's the psychiatric hospital, because it looks like it's gonna break her. Really?

• 20:32Speaker 01

  God damn it. I couldn't see a way to resolve it. But it pushed her right to the brink, but, but not over. So. And there was another episode after she had her hip replaced. She was put in a rehab home hospital for a while. And she was the youngest person in it by like 60 years. And they treated her terribly. It was a terrible place. Mean, mean, blind nurses. And very, very badly run. And they traumatized her. The hospital was a worse experience than the damn surgery. And so that was, that took her quite a while to recover from. But she did recover from it.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  Do you ever think now, since you're a clinical psychologist and you've done all this research and work and studies, do you believe that your daughter was meant to experience this for you to kind of test your ability to be with her? And do you think she would have been able to grow in the way she is now as someone who didn't have the practice that you had?

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Well, I think it was fortunate for all of us that, well, my wife too. Like, my wife had worked in palliative care as a volunteer. And she was a massage therapist for a long time. She's very good at, and my wife has a real, she's a really tough person. And if you don't need help and you want it, she'll cut you into ribbons. But if you need help, she will really help you.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  So she's really good at differentiating between people who actually need help, in which case she is right there, and people who could stand up on their own. And if you can't stand up on your own, and you could, if you could stand up on your own and you aren't, you don't want to be around her because she will, she will put you in your place. And it was so funny because our kids used to bring their friends over all the time when they were teenagers, which we actually quite liked. But we had a rule for the teenagers, which was, "We're really happy you're here. But if you do something stupid and you never get to come back, that's actually okay with us." Right? And so they knew that. And it was no joke because we were happy they were there and they were welcome. But we were perfectly happy to dispense with them if they misbehave.

• 22:36Lewis Howes?

  Forever.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  And so, but what was really funny was that the kids would come over, the teenagers would come over. And they were pretty afraid of me to begin with. But after being around for a couple of weeks, they were way more afraid of my wife. So that was very funny. Yeah, because she's, you know, she's quite a pleasant person and she's not a, she's only five foot two. You know, she's imposing enough because she's also in good physical shape, but it was, because I'm actually kind of soft-hearted. And she's not soft-hearted, although she can really take care of people who need to be taken care of. No, so I think Michaela had a fortunate, fortunate circumstance in that sense because both of us had a lot of experience dealing with catastrophe. And so when it came along, we were overwhelmed by it, but it wasn't because we didn't know what we were doing.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  We knew what we were doing, it was just even though we did know what we were doing as much as might be possible, that doesn't mean that we could deal with it because it was, well, it took us, it took us, what? Must have been seven or eight months to arrange the ankle surgery. And there was a waiting list in Canada at that point of, I think, three years. Actually, they wanted to fuse her foot, which is a really bad thing for, for someone young. And so we, we looked in India, we looked in, oh Christ, we looked all over the world for ankle surgery, like really everywhere. And finally, the government in Canada was actually quite helpful. We found a private clinic in, in Vancouver that did the surgery and the, the Ministry of Health in Ontario was quite helpful to us at that point. But we were scrambling to, well, what should we do?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Should we have her ankle replaced? Well, what sort of replacement? Who do we talk to? Well, what about this waiting list? Three years? It's like, no.

• 24:10Lewis Howes?

  You can't deal with this.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Man, she can't live.

• 24:12Lewis Howes?

  I'm thinking a week out, yeah. Your time frame is a week.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, that's, three years, that was just beyond.

• 24:17Lewis Howes?

  Did you ever doubt yourself in terms of your ability and your research and your studies? Did you ever say to yourself like, man, if I can't, you know, figure this out, then all of my work is for nothing?

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Well, no, I never thought it was for nothing, but I certainly doubted whether or not we were going to be able to figure out, figure this out. Yeah.

• 24:37Lewis Howes?

  And if you, and if you thought, you know, and at that time, you're extremely educated, researched, you know, you'd seen a lot. Did you, did that give you a fear of like, well, if I can't figure this out, then no one can?

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Of course, of course. Well, her, her prognosis was multiple early joint replacements. And, and that was like, that was the good news because the bad news is, well, how many? And how many can you stand? And when does that kill you? So, her real prognosis was plenty of pain with an early death. You know, because, well, even now, that surgeon who talked to her yesterday said, well, because he talked to her about the risk of amputation in the future. It's like, well, this is the second joint revision. It's like, maybe this will last 15 years. We don't know what the hell is going to happen then. Well, so our response to that is, that's 15 years from now. It's like, who knows?

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  Deal with it then.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Well, things are better now for how people understand how to replace an ankle than they were. I think it was 10 years ago that she had this one replaced. And it helped. It wasn't perfect. Her hip is perfect. The ankle has always been trouble, but way less trouble than it was. And so, well, you struggle forward the best you can. And so, I suppose she could adapt to an amputation if that was necessary, but at the moment, it isn't necessary. But multiple amputations is not something to really be looking forward to when you're 16. You know, and they were going to put her on corticosteroids to control her inflammation. And that would have produced Cushing's disease. And so, that makes your face all puffy and it makes you gain weight. And so, it's very physically disfiguring. So, we decided not to go down that route.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  And, yeah, well, but, you know, it's worked out. Thank God. It's quite the miracle. And she had a baby a year ago, and we were never sure that was going to happen, so...

• 26:20Lewis Howes?

  Congrats.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  Congrats to you.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Yes, that's for sure. So, now we have this respite where she's healthy. And the last time I saw her, she was looking great. Like, she's just glowing. She's so healthy. I can't believe it. It's just beyond belief.

• 26:36Lewis Howes?

  Congrats on all the hard work you've done to make it a possibility. You know, you spent a long time...

• 26:43Speaker 01

  We avoided the worst excesses of hell during the catastrophe. So, that's something. And it did allow her the space to figure out. And my wife had always thought that diet had a relationship to it. And we investigated that. Like, there's a good literature that shows if you have arthritic symptoms and you stop eating, if you fast, they go away. So that's interesting. It's like, well, food must be causing it. Yeah, but once you start to eat again.

• 27:07Lewis Howes?

  To survive.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  What you eat comes back. It turns out, no, not no matter what. Almost no matter what. Because she's sensitive to virtually everything. But she isn't sensitive to meat. And so it turns out that if you eat meat, you can live. So that's a big difference between being sensitive to everything and not being sensitive to one thing. And so, so it's, it's a harsh diet. It's made traveling difficult. Although I can eat in restaurants because most restaurants can cook a steak with nothing on it. And that's made things much easier while I'm traveling. But whatever, whatever, it's working. And so thank God for that.

• 27:47Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. Do you think hypothetically, if your daughter was healthy and never had any of these complications, that you would be the man you are impacting people? The success, you know, the attention you'd be getting? Do you think you'd have as much impact?

• 28:03Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have written the 12th chapter, that's for sure.

• 28:06Lewis Howes?

  Do you think in general, you would still be able to have the ideals, the belief, the fortitude that you have to reach people and really impact people?

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. But I know what you're, I know what you're saying. You know, your question is, well, to what degree is adversity character building? And the answer to that is plenty. But I was already, like I said, and it was the same with my wife. We weren't naive people because I had an extensive clinical practice. I was dealing with, with heavy level adversity always.

• 28:35Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't your personal, it wasn't your daughter?

• 28:37Speaker 01

  No, no. But there were, you know, there were other problems in my family and so forth that I dealt with as well. And so we were already, we'd already, I think, garnered most of what we could from confronting adverse situations. Now, did that add a different level to it? It probably brought our family closer together, all things considered. I saw the same thing happen when my wife's mother died. She died of prefrontal dementia. And she, she developed it quite young. About, it started to really manifest itself in her early 50s. And she died when she was 70. And she fell apart over, you know, 18 years. And she was very physically healthy. And her husband, who was quite the man about town when he was a young guy, real extrovert, he was a real character in our hometown.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  He took care of her so well, it was absolutely jaw dropping. Every time she slipped, he'd step up to the plate. And he, he took care of her until he couldn't lift her out of her chair anymore. And he was getting old too. And so she wasn't in an old age home for very long. And then we were around when she died, you know, over the couple of days just before her death. And her family, her sister is a palliative care nurse, her other sister is a pharmacist, and Tammy's had the experiences that are already described. And then her father really stepped up to the plate. So the whole family gathered around for that. And they acted impeccably throughout it, I would say. They took care of their mother very carefully while she was dying. And they pulled together. And one of the consequences of that, which was so interesting is that although their mother died,

• 30:07Speaker 01

  and that was a terrible loss, their bonds that connected them, all of them, strengthened to the point where I would say that was almost compensation for the loss of their mother. So that was really interesting to see what happens even in a dire circumstance if people do what they can. Now, I'm not saying that that's going to work for every situation because I know people get cut off at the knees. And sometimes you hit a tragedy that, oh, that's fatal, you know, that you cannot rectify. It's a real catastrophe. But it was very interesting watching that because they were alert and awake around the deathbed and they weren't fighting with each other at all. There was no familial squabbling. Because you can imagine that that would happen because everyone's stressed.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  And then you can just imagine how terrible that would make something that's already awful. There was none of that. They focused their attention on her, you know, they gave her water when she needed it. And they watched her and they made, they made this terrible thing the least amount of awful it could be. And it definitely pulled them together. Like that whole family, including me, is closer because of what they went through and also how they went through it. And it's probably the case... Well, I would say it definitely advanced the maturity of my son. Because he was called, and I told him, "Look, kid, like, you can't add anything to this. We're up to here.

• 31:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  You have to conduct yourself properly, because otherwise, everything's gonna shake and fall. We can't have more of this. You can't bring any, anything unnecessary into this."

• 31:41Lewis Howes?

  Kid was an all-star.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  It was remarkable, man.

• 31:44Lewis Howes?

  Champion.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  He was only in grade 10 when most, most of this happened. And your friends are pretty damn important when you're in grade 10. And he stuck around a lot to be helpful. So, yeah, it was really good for him, man. Yeah, well, he, yeah, he's a good character.

• 31:58Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  He's, he's quite, quite something.

• 32:01Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  And he was very helpful, he was very helpful to his sister. They had their fights, obviously, while she was often unreasonable and no bloody wonder. You know, well, when you're strung out and...

• 32:10Lewis Howes?

  You can't feel anything but pain.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. God, she went through so much, like even wa- watching her withdraw from the opiates, because she was on them for about a year and a half.

• 32:18Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh, the pain.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  She just quit, hey, well, as soon as she was done her surgeries, like, "I'm not taking these anymore." And she had formication, which is the sensation of ants crawling under your skin.

• 32:26Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  She had that for like a month and, "Oh, God, unbelievable." She was, she just, just sailed through. It's like, "I'm done with these."

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:37Lewis Howes?

  You guys have been through a lot.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a lot, man.

• 32:40Lewis Howes?

  What's your, what's your biggest fear now, moving forward, in your, in your own life?

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Oh, making a mistake at the moment. Because like I've been, I've been the subject of so much public attention in the last two years. And like, I've been in a situation where even things I didn't say have also, almost been fatal, because people take them out of context.

• 32:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  You know, and, but my biggest fear has been that I do something careless and that there are serious cascading consequences to it.

• 33:11Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you've done something careless, or have you...

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Well, everyone's done something careless.

• 33:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  You know, but I've been pretty careful. I mean, I was fortunate, so when this political scandal blew up around me in, in Canada, when I opposed some legislation that I thought was reprehensibly constructed, the radicals on the left in particular came after me hard. But I was fortunate, because, you know, they called me every name under the book and went after my character. And, you know, I suppose there was some degree of, of...

• 33:41Speaker 01

  That was understandable to some degree, because if you stand up against something, if you stand up against the radical right, well, maybe you're a communist. Probably not, because you don't have to be a communist to not like the radical right. But if you stand up against the radical left, well, maybe you're a Nazi. Well, probably not, but you might be. And so it's certainly in the interest of the people who are proponents of the philosophy of the radical left to assume that you're a Nazi, because then they don't have to deal with you. And so, that's what happens. You throw yourself into the fray, people try to localize you, and they do that by saying, "Well, maybe you're this, maybe you're this, maybe you're this, maybe you're this." It's like, well, yeah, maybe not too. But I already had 250 hours of lectures up on YouTube at that point, so people could actually go and see what I had said,

• 34:24Speaker 01

  because virtually every word I'd ever said to students in a professional capacity, not every word, because I didn't tape every lecture, but I taped multiple years of lectures. And so, people went over those with a fine-tooth comb, trying to find out if there's anything I'd ever said, and they couldn't find anything. And that was because I'd been very careful with what I say. Ever since I was about 25, I started paying attention to what I was saying and trying very hard not to say things that I would... Trying not, trying very hard not to say things that something in me objected to. Well, that provided me with a buffer.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  And so people came to my website, because they were interested in... Well, before the political stuff blew up, I had a million views on YouTube, which is nothing. A million of anything is a lot. But then, when the political scandal started to break, yeah, then people came for them, but stayed for the content, and so, and that's been really useful. Yeah, well, it's been... Well, and it's not that surprising. Well, you know, because of what you do, it's like, there's a great hunger for information that is practical and useful, and that helps people find meaning in their lives and orient themselves. There's a great hunger for that, and most of my lectures were derived from... Solid psychology, some of it experimental, some of it biological,

• 35:49Speaker 01

  some of it from the domains of neuroscience. A lot of it from great clinicians. It's not surprising that people find it helpful because, well, great clinicians were great because they were really helpful. And so to distill that and to offer it to people in a digestible form, to have that have a good effect on them, well, that's what you'd expect. That's what the whole discipline is about. And so that's been great. These public lectures that I've been doing, so I think I've done 50 of them in about 45 different cities now in about three months. And the average theater size is between 2,500 and 3,000 people. And they're unbelievably positive events because people come there and we talk mostly about

• 36:31Speaker 01

  the political spectrum and why there's room for voices on the left and why there's room for voices on the right and where the parameters of that should be. Because both of those can descend into extremism and that's not good. And the role of individual responsibility and individual sovereignty and the necessity for people to develop a vision, the sorts of things that we already talked about. And virtually everyone that's coming there, they're not coming for political reasons, even though that's the story you hear from the more ideologically possessed journalist types because they see the world that way. They can't imagine anything else could possibly be happening. But the people who are coming to these lectures are coming because they are doing everything they possibly can to make their lives better. And it's lovely to talk to people like that.

• 37:14Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  It is. It's great. It's literally great.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  School of Greatness, baby.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 37:21Lewis Howes?

  I've got six minutes to be mindful of your time and your schedule and I want to ask you three final questions, if that's okay.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you bet.

• 37:28Lewis Howes?

  As much as I would love for you to go on for another few hours on these answers, so I can get to the last question.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  I'll do my best to be brief.

• 37:36Lewis Howes?

  But I wish I could go on longer. So we'll have to have you come back next time you're in L.A. The first one is, what is your purpose now moving forward? Through everything you've had in your life, what's your purpose moving forward?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  I did a series of biblical lectures last year. I did 15 lectures on Genesis. I'm going to continue doing that. So in November, I'm going to start with the Exodus stories. And what I'd like to do over the next 15 years is make my way through the whole corpus of biblical writings. So that's one major goal. I want to write another book. I've written half of it already, which will be a follow-up to 12 Rules for Life because I actually had laid out on a site called Quora40 Rules. And so I'll do that and write another couple of books, I suspect, over the next few years. The touring, I'm going to continue. I have ten cities coming up in Canada, and another twenty in the US, and then twelve in Europe. And I'm going to go to Australia in February, and then back to Europe, I think, in April.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  So there's lots of touring on the horizon, and it's for the reasons I already described. I'm having, I don't, the lectures differ every night, although there are themes that constantly emerge. And I'm using those as an opportunity to have a detailed and engaged discussion with the audience about how we might proceed forward individually and collectively, so that we can make things consciously better, and why that's associated with necessary meaning, and why that's a moral obligation. So it's a dialogue about responsibilities and not rights, even though rights, rights are only important insofar as they set up the space for you to shoulder your proper responsibility. And as a sovereign citizen, you have the responsibility for the integrity of the state

• 39:14Speaker 01

  resting on your shoulders, and it's something that if you don't take seriously, then the state shakes, and that's not good. And so I'm trying to convey that to people. It's like you have, there's actually something that you need to do. You need to take care of yourself, you need to take care of your family, you need to take care of your community, and if you don't do that, then there'll be hell to pay. And it's on you, each of us. It's hard for people to grasp that, well, they don't want to, first of all, maybe because they don't want the responsibility. But then they don't get any meaning, then they suffer, then they get bitter. That's not good. So it's like, which of these are you gonna pick? But it's also salutary to people, because it's useful for everyone to know that

• 39:55Speaker 01

  if you don't live up to your potential, that you leave a hole in the fabric of being, and it's filled by something approximating hell. And unless that's what you want, then you shouldn't be doing that. And so, and it's perfectly possible to have a serious discussion with 3,000 people about this, and they're right on board with it all the way. And so that's really something amazing to behold. And one of the things I've realized is, although these new technologies, the technologies you're using, enable these long-form discussions, turns out that people are smarter than we thought. Right, right. Right. TV narrowed it, right? It's like 30 seconds. Say your complicated thing in 30 seconds, like. But can't.

• 40:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  So, we were viewing the population through this narrow window and everyone looked kinda stupid. It's like now the window's fully open. It's like, oh, look at that. You people like forty hour Netflix specials that are incredibly complex.

• 40:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Right? And you like three hour Joe Rogan discussions that are complicated. You'll follow the whole thing. It's like, oh, good. We're smarter than we thought. Thank God for that, because we better be. So, that's where I made my new future.

• 41:05Lewis Howes?

  That's your purpose. Got it. Love it. Okay, question number two. This is called, you've got the Twelve Rules for Life. Make sure you guys, again, go pick it up. Get it right now. What's the link as well?

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Oh, selfauthoring.com. And I put up a code, which is greatness.

• 41:19Lewis Howes?

  Greatness, yes.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  You get twenty percent off the full suite, two for one, so you can give the suite to your friends, too.

• 41:24Lewis Howes?

  Selfauthoring.com.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 41:27Lewis Howes?

  Not slash greatness, just the code is greatness.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Just the code is greatness, yeah. And I would say to everyone, if you're gonna try this exercise, which I would recommend, do it over a few days, and don't do it perfectly. Just do it. Get it done. Do a bad first draft, right? Which is an important principle in life. A bad first draft is a great thing to have.

• 41:46Lewis Howes?

  That's good. You're also on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  So we'll link all that stuff up as well.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 41:53Lewis Howes?

  And your website, what's your main website?

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Jordan B Peterson dot com.

• 41:56Lewis Howes?

  Perfect. Okay, so make sure you guys get the book, subscribe to everything, get the self-authoring.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  The future authoring, for you university students out there, the future authoring program decreases your probability of dropout if you're in a college program, university program, by somewhere between twenty-five and fifty percent, especially if you're kinda aimless. It works better. If you already got a plan and you're implementing it, and you've got a good direction, then, you know, it's not as helpful, because you're already halfway there. But if you're kinda lost and you do this, it'll help you not only establish your goals, but stick to them. It really helps. We've done three very detailed, published, peer-reviewed studies showing that this really works.

• 42:36Lewis Howes?

  Powerful.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it doesn't hurt you either, that's the other thing.

• 42:39Lewis Howes?

  That's great. That's great. You've got the Twelve Rules for Life. I've got something called the Three Truths, which is a question I ask everyone at the end. So we're gonna try to boil this down for three truths for you. You know, imagine this is your last day. You get to choose the day for you when you die.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 42:53Lewis Howes?

  It's many years away as I wanted to be, and you've achieved your purpose. Everything you set out, you aimed for, you hit the target. And then you pass away. It's the last day. Everyone's there, it's a celebration.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:06Lewis Howes?

  But for whatever reason, there's no more videos of you up online. There's no more lectures, no more podcasts, no more books. For whatever reason, you have to take them with you.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 43:15Lewis Howes?

  So no one has access to your information.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 43:18Lewis Howes?

  But you get to a piece of paper and you get to write down three things you know to be true about your life that you would pass on. I like to call it the three truths.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Don't say things that make you weak.

• 43:27Lewis Howes?

  Number one.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Hmm. Lift your eyes above the horizon and aim at the highest star that you can contemplate. What's the third one? Put your family in order.

• 43:39Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  Powerful. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Jordan, for your incredible wisdom and vulnerability with me. We just met, but I feel very connected to you and your mission and your purpose. And I just appreciate everything you've been through as a father and as a husband for your daughter, for your son, for your wife to continue to move on in your own dreams and pursuit of bettering humanity while going through all that you've gone through. So I really acknowledge everything you've been doing and what you stand for and your ability to use your words carefully to make sure to try to make the best impact on people who are listening. So I'm going to acknowledge you for all that. I hope we get to have you come back sometime when you're in L.A.

• 44:26Lewis Howes?

  Because I think we can go for another hour or two. And the final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Well, greatness is what reveals itself when you when you attempt to formulate, when you attempt to carefully articulate and live out what you believe to be true. It just happens because there isn't anything more powerful than truth. Right? That's the antidote to suffering, truth. Right? So it's a strange thing because you think, well, yeah, it produces a lot of suffering too. It's like, yeah, in the short term.

• 45:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 45:06Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. Jordan, thank you, sir.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  You bet. Thanks for the invitation and the opportunity. Very nice to meet you.

• 45:11Lewis Howes?

  Good meeting you.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:12Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  All right.

• 45:17Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. Jordan Peterson on pain and suffering. Again, suffering becomes beautiful when anyone bears great calamities with cheerfulness, not through insensibility, but through greatness of mind. That was Aristotle, and I hope you enjoyed this one and got profound wisdom and insights on how you can apply this to your life. If you did, share it with your friend. Text a friend this link right now, LewisHowes.com/665. Ask them to listen to this. Ask them to share with you what they learned. Ask them to share it with a friend. You can put it on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook. Email your friends. I'm telling you, this will be a powerful series for you to share with your friends or your audience. And as always, tag me on Instagram, @LewisHowes.

• 46:03Lewis Howes?

  And Dr. Jordan Peterson, you can connect with him over at the show notes for this. You can watch the full video interview, get his book, the self-authoring program as well. All of it is incredible information, and make sure to share this with your friends. If you enjoyed it, let me know. Leave us a review over on iTunes, on the podcast app on your phone, or you can go over to iTunes right now and leave us a review. We've got over 3,200 plus five-star reviews. Big thank you to everyone who's left a review. And again, would really love your thoughts on this specific series because for me, I believe it's gonna be extremely helpful for so many people. So make sure to share it with your friends. I hope you guys enjoyed this one and this two-part series.

• 46:45Lewis Howes?

  Again, it means the world to me that you continue to elevate your mind, you elevate your life, and you make a big impact on the people around you. That's what we're all here for. We're all here to find meaning in our lives. We're here to learn how to overcome the pain and the suffering that is inevitable in our lives, and we're here to make a greater impact on those around us. And I hope this two-part series with Jordan Peterson supported you in learning how to do this in a better way. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.