64 Ryan Holiday: Using Practical Ancient Philosophy as a Guide to Achieving Mastery

Would you like to learn philosophy in a way that is actually practical? Ryan Holiday comes on the School of Greatness to share his wealth of knowledge on how to integrate stoic philosophy into succeeding in our modern day world. To get all the show notes, links and much, much, more; head over to www. LewisHowes.com/64 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 64 with Ryan Holiday.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  What is up, greats? Thanks so much for checking out this episode today. I've got a very special one. This is my good friend, Ryan Holiday, who is probably one of the youngest geniuses you'll ever meet when it comes to building a business, marketing, advertising, and just being creative in general. And he is most well-known for being the Director of Marketing at American Apparel. And I think he got the job when he was like 21, which is just ridiculous by itself. But he has some pretty big time clients as well that he worked with on the side while he's been working with American Apparel. People like Tucker Max, Robert Green, Tim Ferriss, and a number of other people.

• 1:17Lewis Howes?

  But he's done some incredible things. He's considered a media manipulator. He's got a book called Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator. That was a Wall Street Journal bestseller. And he's just done some amazing things online when it comes to marketing. But this is all about something a little different. And it's something that I'm really in tune with. And it's all about adversity and obstacles. And he's got this new book called The Obstacle is the Way: The Time is Art of Turning Trials into Triumph. And I've experienced so many obstacles and challenges, specifically in sports, when I think of

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  injuries in my life, that it always seems like a big bummer and a big downer. Whenever I get injured and I have to sit out for a few months, or I think my career is over, or I think the- Season is over, which has happened to me both. My season's been over because of injury. My career's been over because of injury. Lots of things have happened because of obstacles. But it always seems like those obstacles become my way. And I'm excited to dive into why obstacles are so important for our life and for our purpose and our mission and how Ryan has really kind of cracked the code with all this in his research

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  and his writing. I think you guys are gonna love this episode. So stay tuned for that. And without further ado, let's bring on the man, Ryan Holiday.

• 3:03Lewis Howes?

  And welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. I am extremely excited about today's guest. His name is Mr. Ryan Holiday. What is up, Ryan?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Hey, hey, man. How are you?

• 3:14Lewis Howes?

  I'm exceptional today and it's because I got to, I get to hang out with you for an hour. And it's because I got to read your book, which is fascinating, probably because it's something that I'm already in tune with and already believe in. So to get it reinforced, you know, we were talking about this a little bit before, but to get this reinforced that what I'm doing is working for me through your book and through the, the research that you've done, like the extensive, you know, pages of research that you have in the back. It's, it's, it's a privilege to be able to go through something as amazing as this. So thanks for writing it.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Thank you, man. That, that means a lot. I mean, that's why, I think that's why people sit down and write books is for exactly that reaction. So I appreciate it.

• 4:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And the book is called The Obstacle Is The Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Adversity Into Advantage. Just to advantage, not into. And you know, this, this speaks to my heart big time because as there was a couple of There was a section in here, I forget the page, but there was a section where you're talking about, you know, adversity and actually the moments where we have our biggest, you know, quote unquote, failures or setbacks is actually the opportunity to turn it into our biggest advantage. And for me, I would say this has been true in my entire life. Every huge failure or setback

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  or emotional breakdown or injury, physical injury, it's turned into like the greatest advantage of my life and set me in a path of, you know, success and fulfillment and impact. So I am a huge believer in this philosophy, if you will, and I'm excited to dive in. So,

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  First off, why did you, you know, you wrote a book before, were you a New York Times bestseller?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  It was a national bestseller, so it had The Wall Street Journalist and a couple others.

• 5:15Lewis Howes?

  Nice. And you wrote this amazing book called, Trust Me, I'm Lying, Confessions of a Media Manipulator. Is that right?

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Right. Uh huh. It's like a marketing expose about how the, how the media works.

• 5:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And this is a brilliant book and you've written another book called, I think it's called Growth Hacking. And it's all about basically building your company without having to spend a lot of money. And the marketing strategies and the mastermind that you've, that you've got, that you've been working for years with American Apparel and all these other, these other influencers. I'll talk about that in the intro, but I want to talk about, why did you want to go into this type of book, which has been different than your last couple of books?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Sure. I mean, first off, I don't think anyone wants to do the same thing over and over again. And I think it's when we challenge ourselves to do the things that maybe we're afraid of, or we think that are a little bit beyond our reach, that we end up sort of creating the stuff that we're most proud of. So for me, you know, Stoicism, which is, which is the sort of philosophy that's at the root of this book, it's something that I've read for a long time and I've studied. I was introduced to Stoicism and when I was 19 years old by Dr. Drew, of all people. Yeah, I met him at this conference and he was like, look, you gotta read this book. And so I read it and it totally, totally changed how I saw the world.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  And in the, in the, in the book that I read, there was this, this exercise about how, um, you know, he says, um, Marcus Aurelius, who, who wrote the book, he says, "The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way." And this was, of course, something that went totally over my head at nineteen years old. But as I got older, I started to understand what it meant because like you, I saw that every time I thought that something negative was happening or something was holding me back or preventing me from doing what I wanted to do. When I really looked at it and thought about it, it was actually presenting this sort of new opportunity or this new path.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Um, and so I wanted to write a book that was both a reminder to myself about how that works and a sort of a series of like thoughts that I could use myself when I face stuff like that. And then also just communicate and maybe pass on what I've learned from these, these other people. Like, there's a lot less of me in this book and a lot more of like other people's stories, specifically sort of like the historical greats and how they've used this formula in their own lives.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love it. And for, for the, for the non-philosophers, you know,

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:44Lewis Howes?

  including myself, before I had to look it up, what is Stoicism, the definition of that?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Stoicism is a, is a philosophy that was popular with the Greek and Roman elites. Um, that is very much a practical philosophy. So like, I know when people hear philosophy, they think like a college lecturer who's droning on and on about these complicated metaphysics and, and ethics and stuff. Stoicism is a very simple philosophy that's about, that's, that's basically rooted on one fact, which is we don't control the world around us. We only control how we behave and how we respond to that. And that we may as well respond with sort of strength, discipline, virtue and rationality.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  And I wanted to, I, those, those skills, although philosophical and I think very wise, are also the same skills that are very advantageous. If you're a lawyer, if you're a business person, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're a leader. You know, the two most prominent Stoics were Marcus, or the three most prominent Stoics were Marcus Aurelius, who was the emperor of Rome, the most powerful man in the world, Epictetus, who was a lecturer, who had formerly been a slave, and then Seneca, who was one of the most powerful and influential political advisors and businessmen in Rome, all at

• 9:09Speaker 01

  different times. So it's like, this is really a philosophy that's designed for doers, not for academics.

• 9:15Lewis Howes?

  I like that. You know, when I think of philosophy, I think of like, people that just think all day.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 9:22Lewis Howes?

  And then don't take action, they just judge the actions of others. And so for me, I like this way of thinking a lot better. And it's, you know, I've been doing a lot of emotional intelligence studies and research, and it seems like almost identical to what emotional intelligence is. And I'm looking at the, I guess, the definition of it right now, which is the ability to identify, assess, and control the emotions of one's selves, of others, and of groups. But really, like, being able to manage your emotions under extreme obstacles, stress, adversity, and things like that, so that you can propel yourself to achieving what you want to achieve.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Stoics were, the Stoics sort of saw emotions in some way as an enemy, not that emotions are bad, but emotions, they sort of pitted emotions versus rationality, and how often harmful emotions might make us do irrational things. So they're basically looking at how do you make sure that you don't make situations worse in the way that you react to them, which I think is probably the definition of an emotionally intelligent person, is that they know how to make things better, rather than worse.

• 10:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and that's, you've got three parts to your book. The first part is perception, and I think that goes perfectly into perception. You know, I could, you know, I could have a horrible accident, quote unquote, accident happened to me, or lose a close family member, or lose my job, or... Something could go wrong, again, a car crash.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:52Lewis Howes?

  It's all about my perception on how I emotionally react or don't react. And perception of everything that is happening around me in the world. That's happened in the past, that's happening now, whatever it may be. But it starts with perception and, you know, which is going to determine, I guess, our emotions and our outlook and our next actions. Wouldn't you say?

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. I think what the Stoics point out is like, how, when you look at our emotions or our reactions objectively, how, how much the severity of them can sort of crumble away. So it's like, you know, something happens to you and you feel like it's the worst thing ever. There are a lot of people who would kill to have that happen to them, right?

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  And that's how you sort of, it's like when you realize that, you realize that your emotions are subjective. And then if they're subjective, then you have the ability to control them. And what the Stoics look at is, okay, you know, the bad things are going to happen, good things are going to happen. How can you make sure that your emotions don't get carried away in either case? So it's like, if you're really happy, awesome, but you also don't want to delude yourself into thinking things are always going to be this way. So when bad things happen, you're not caught by surprise, right? And then on the other side, when bad things are happening, you want to remember and, and be able to remind yourself that things aren't always going to be this way. So you don't get depressed and, you know, want to kill yourself.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Like, the, the point is, can you prevent yourself from gravitating towards these extremes? That, and we all know people who are not in control of their emotions. And we see how they sort of whipsaw back and forth and, and how miserable that makes them.

• 12:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and you give a great example, you know, I think, I think of Tom Brady as a great sports figure who is pretty even keel throughout an entire football game, all the ups and downs. And you give a great example of Arthur Ashe in the book. Um, you know, when he was playing tennis during the 50s and 60s during segregation and how he was able to manage his emotions. People were just in awe.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  And, you know, talk about that.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, and and then you look at someone like John McEnroe, whose emotions are all over the place, the problems that that caught, like, it it can have some advantages, but, you know, I think you're better off being able to sort of control your emotions and then direct them towards some positive end than to be ruled by them. And and, you know, I I quote, like, for instance, Musashi, the the samurai swordsman, he's saying there's a the difference between per- perception and impressions. And like, you want to stick with these first impressions. So it's like, hey, you know, uh, they just intercepted the ball would be like the first impression. The second impression, which is something that someone like Tom Brady doesn't do, is like,

• 13:45Speaker 01

  the game is over because this happened. Like, you you want to prevent yourself from these extrapolations and adding on the implications. If you if you can live in that present moment, it's like, okay, they intercepted the ball because, you know, something happened. Now I have to do X, Y, and Z in response. That's how you see these people pull off these mass, uh, these, you know, sudden last minute wins, was because you gave up in your head and they never did. They didn't, they didn't think, they they were sort of existing in that present moment where they had a job to do and a thing they had to accomplish. Whereas the rest of us, you know, something goes wrong and all of a sudden we're,

• 14:28Speaker 01

  we've extrapolated out to the point where like, we're going to be homeless and we're going to die in the streets of starvation. Um, when we would have been better off just taking the situation as it was and working with where it leaves us.

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I like that. Yeah. And you talk about, you say the difference between the right and the wrong perspective is everything.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. I mean, like, the, the, our perspective changes what the event means to us. So if we tell ourselves that it's the worst thing ever, it's the worst thing ever. And if we don't, well, it's not. And, you know, I, like, I liked, um, one of my examples in the book is Laura Ingalls Wilder, who wrote Little House on the Prairie. She sort of lived through all this terrible stuff, right? But she had this weird spirit where she kind of saw it all as an adventure. And so this idea of like, a terrible thing being actually fun, and then it becoming fun because she thinks that it is, I think is really, is really important. And I'm not saying that you should, you, you have to go live on the Kansas Prairies or something.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  But the point is, what she went through is much worse than probably what you and I are gonna go through.

• 15:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  You know, the most of us, so many of our problems are these sort of first world problems. But because they're the only problems we know, we obsess about them, and we make them so much bigger than they actually are. And we don't remind ourselves, it feels weird to think this way, but we don't remind ourselves how much worse it really could be.

• 15:54Lewis Howes?

  Right. Like, our car is breaking down every month. Oh, my God, you know, or something. It's like, people don't even have cars, you know?

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Yes, right. Or what if you died in a car accident? Wouldn't that be worse?

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly, yeah. All great things. And you talk about, uh, you give a, you talk about Steve Jobs in the book as well, and you, and you say that he's, he's famous for the reality distortion field. Now, what is, what does that actually mean?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he was sort of notorious for, uh, like, people would say like, oh, you know, this deadline is impossible, or, oh, this can't be done. Um, like, if you look at the iPhone, like, the iPhone is so much better than everything that came before. It almost feels like, um, like magic, right? And that was because he ignored all the people who would say things like, oh, it's not possible. Like, there's a famous story where this engineer, um, he, he wanted some mouse for one of the early Macintoshes, and the engineers, like, look, this mouse is impossible, we can't do it. And, you know, the, um, the guy's manager shows up the next day, that employee is gone, and the first words out of his replacement's mouth were like, oh, I can do it.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  And it's, it's sort of surrounding yourself with those people and inculcating that attitude and saying, like, look, it's gonna be okay, we're gonna try this, we're gonna take, we're gonna, we're gonna push the boundaries of what we think. Is po- what we think is impossible. Um, we're not gonna be, we're not gonna be delusional, but we don't have to be realistic. Like, everyone tells us to be realistic. And I'm sure there are so, I mean, when I hear your story, Louis, there's so much stuff that you've done in your life that's, that other people would say is unrealistic or impossible or crazy. But because you didn't think that they were, you were able to do them.

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  Right. Yeah. I definitely believe in that attitude, so I like.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  I mean, like, for me, it's like, people are like, oh, you're twenty-six years old, can you write this book? And you have to be like, you know, no offense, it's like, screw those people.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Don't listen to them. Do what you think you can do, and then, you know, play it out from there.

• 17:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, pretty much, I don't know if anyone would think that, you know, you'd be the, the head of marketing, uh, for American Apparel. I think at twenty-one is when you started, right?

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, I, things are a lot easier than people think, and they're also a lot harder. But, you know, you don't average those out and then decide what is or isn't possible. It's like, you know, you, you, you take risks, you, you bet on yourself. Um, and you, you don't worry about what, you don't worry about these risks, because it doesn't give you anything, and it's, it's what makes you conservative, and it ensures that you won't do certain things.

• 18:35Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. So, okay, so we're, we have an obstacle coming our way. There, there's some challenge that's about to happen or, or has happened. And, uh, once you start attacking this obstacle, what, what kind of mindset, mindset should one consider?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Sure. So I think, I, I sort of break it down in three steps in the book. The first is like, controlling how you perceive and see that obstacle, right? So, you know, you're not exaggerating how big it is, you're not freaking out, you're controlling your emotions, you're, you're looking for the weaknesses or the opportunities within it, you know? So, first step is just your perspective towards it. And then the second, the second part is you have to take action, right? Um, and I think, I think there's a couple of problems that people face when they, when they do obstacles that they don't deal with properly. And the first is, they, they try to overthink it, right? So they look for this sort of perfect plan or thing that will will do something like I know with you. Right. When you were sort of between football and then what you did next.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  It it can be very tempting to sort of like, I've got to have this miracle. I've got to find the perfect thing for me, but really you got off your ass and you just started working and you made something from scratch. But you didn't totally know where you were going, right? Like.

• 19:54Lewis Howes?

  No clue.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  You just worked and you you channeled your energy towards something and you didn't give up. And then you were able, once you sort of got some momentum, then you were able to figure out where you wanted to direct this thing. So like, when I see people my own age, it's like, oh, I graduated from college and then the market was terrible. So I moved back in with my parents and now I'm waiting for a Fortune 500 company to give me the my dream job.

• 20:20Lewis Howes?

  Magically call me up and offer me a six figure job.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Right. It's it's not gonna happen. And so I tell the story of Amelia Earhart, like people. People know Amelia Earhart for what she did, but they don't understand that the sort of the first offer, her first flight over the Atlantic. Was this insanely dangerous, ridiculous offer where she had to be chaperoned by two men. She wasn't paid. She got like none of the attention. She she basically had to eat their shit. Um, to to to to be able to have the opportunities that she did later. So I think that first step is just like getting up and starting moving. Um, and then it's like, you know, I think persistence is really important, obviously.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  I talk a lot about the process, um, which is, which is a concept from Nick Saban, the the football coach at University of Alabama, which I'm sure you know a little bit about.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  It's it's it's not about focusing on the championship. It's about focusing on the tiny pieces that get you to a championship. So the process is about finishing. It's about finishing reps. It's about finishing uh runs. It's finishing plays. It's finishing downs. It's finishing quarters. It's it's about steps and like I I trained in, I I do some still, but I trained in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. And like, the idea then is like, if someone has pinned you to the mat, it's not this one big movement that throws them off of you. It's a process where you're sort of chipping away. Uh, you know, you first you get your knee in, then you you create some space and then you're pushing away and then like it's it's a it's a process.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  And so I I I urge people to to remember and sort of figure out this process mindset. And then I think lastly, the sort of the final, if I'm summarizing, the final actions are. It's not always about strength against strength, you know, so sometimes um like with you, if you wanted to. You've got this huge platform, maybe one day you want to have a TV show. The the point is not before you have the platform to start planning this TV show. It's to build yourself up one by one until you've built an audience that other people want access to. So it's like, how can you do an end run around whatever gatekeepers or barriers have been erected? To prevent you from going where you want to go.

• 22:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, I like it. Yeah, and I talk a lot about trusting the process. You know, we don't, uh, a lot of people don't trust the the systems and the uh, what's people have achieved before.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:52Lewis Howes?

  There's it's very simple sometimes, and sometimes we overcomplicate it of like the path to achieving X or Y or whatever it may be.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:00Lewis Howes?

  People have done it before and it doesn't mean you have to, you know, try to do something new, although you can. But really trusting the process, like you said, you know, you're not just gonna throw someone off your back or off of you who's on top of you. It takes you step by step and trust the process that even if they got you in a chokehold and you feel like you're gonna die. If you if you trust the process, you're gonna be able to breathe soon.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Right, I I think uh, maybe a good way to describe the process is that a process is simple, but it's not easy. And it doesn't necessarily go quickly either. And so I think that's why people don't trust the process or they avoid the process. Because they want something that like they'll try something that's harder, but won't take as long. And then they're disappointed when all that effort goes for nothing. And I think what. You know, you talk about this on this show because it's about greatness is like there is a path to greatness that people that you know what you're whatever you specifically are trying to do might be a little bit different.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  But more or less, the path is pretty well carved. It's like you gotta put a certain number of hours in. You gotta have a mentor. You gotta, you know, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. Um, that's there and there's no shortcuts around that. So stop trying to find them. You gotta do that stuff and trust that it's gonna be okay, or you're never gonna get there.

• 24:21Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. So how can we change our relationship with failure?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Well, the the metaphor that I like is the how sort of startups have started to think about failure, right? So the the old in the old days, this is like 10 years ago, but the the model was like, look, you raise a bunch of money. Then you invent this product, you perfect it. And then you put it out there and you make it a success, right? Like that's the launching of a business. Well, startups that they you know, launched with less and less money have gotten smaller and smaller and um tried more like they they use what in the lean startup community. Uh, there's a great book about this by Eric Ries called The Lean Startup. But basically you try to launch your your idea as a minimum viable product.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  So they say, what's the smallest version of this idea? That you can put out there to get customer feedback from, right? So you don't launch this final completed thing, you put out little pieces. So it's like if you're gonna write like you you have an idea for a book. Don't go spend two years of your life writing a book and then hope people like it. Start publishing on a blog and get feedback and develop your voice and figure out what your readers are interested in, right?

• 25:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  So this idea of of failing on purpose in a small way to get feedback is really is really revolutionary and it's really beneficial. Um, and so I urge people to stop trying to perfect, perfect things like in private or in the laboratory. But to be more public with what they're doing, to get it out there, um, and then take that feedback and improve what you're doing as a result. So it's like failure can be a feature. It doesn't have to be this thing that you're afraid of. Um, and that's what I that's what I want people to understand. And and I think that's really, really important.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I think a lot of people, I just did a video post about feedback, actually, the importance of feedback on my blog, and I think a lot of people are scared of feedback because they're so critical in themselves, or they don't want people to not like what they're doing. They want to be liked, they want to be, you know, accepted. And I think, you know, the perception of this, what you talk about in your book is brilliant, is it's important to have the feedback and to hone in on the perception of this. You know, if everyone's attacking you or saying this is bad, this is, doesn't, is bad, look at it as it's not working or it's not effective for the results you want.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 26:51Lewis Howes?

  Not, "Oh, I'm a horrible person," or "I suck at this," because that's going to bring you down.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  I tell this story in the book, but Winston Churchill knew that, like, look, the British were gonna have to face the Nazis directly at some point, right? And he knew that at first, it might not go well. And that he didn't want it to go well in mainland Europe, right? Because that blow would be so catastrophic and so bad for morale that they would never recover. So the reason the Allies challenged the Germans in World War II in North Africa was that they wanted to sort of fail far away from home, right? In a smaller, contained way. And so, like, a lot of people are familiar with the sort of the brilliant German general, Erwin Rommel. Well, the reason he ran roughshod over the British troops early on is that they were, they saw this as a learning experience.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  And it's like, it's one, it's obviously a very costly learning experience when you're doing it with human lives. And I think that that shows that, that's a testament to William Churchill's, like, sort of strength and fortitude that he was able to do that. He was able to see, like, "Look, we're gonna have to lose somewhere, and it's gonna be bloody and awful, but it will make us stronger, and we'll get better as we go as a result of it." So, when the Allies landed in Italy, they were better than when they landed in North Africa. And when they landed in France, they were better than when they landed in Italy. And so, like, whereas the Nazis were getting weaker as the war went on, the Allied troops were getting stronger because they'd sort of, they'd taken this iterative approach,

• 28:25Speaker 01

  and they'd failed in a small way and learned those lessons in a small way, rather than continued to delay that painful lesson and, you know, risk everything as a result.

• 28:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. You also talk about being an A to Z thinker.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:43Lewis Howes?

  What is that?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I think we've, I, I, this sort of goes to the process again is we, we think like the beginning and the ends and we don't, we sort of gloss over how hard it is in the middle. Right? Um, and we forget about all that stuff that we have to do there and that, that it takes, you know, there, there's, there's letters in between, right? And so, I mean, it's more of a quip in the book, but my point is, you know, we, we, we think A to Z and then we just assume that B to Y is going to take care of itself and it's not. That's us. The process is what helps us go from B to C and D. Um, and, and you've got to trust that. And you've got to be willing to put in the time, resources and effort to get there.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  It's not, it's not just about, oh, I have an amazing idea. Like I, I talk about this with my employees and with companies I deal with. I, good ideas are not scarce. There are millions of good ideas out there. What's rare is the people who take those good ideas and execute on them in a flawless way. Um, and, and that's where you differentiate yourself from everywhere else. And that's like, if you, you know, that's the school of greatness right there is the, the people who, who take a good idea and then learn from it and improve it and iterate and fail and get better and fail and get better over and over and over again. Until, until they've achieved greatness because, you know, we're not geniuses.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  It's very unlikely that the idea that just occurred to you two seconds ago is going to change the world. It might have a germ inside of it that has the potential to do that. But it's going to take a lot more than just a flash of inspiration.

• 30:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. One of my mentors, early on in business, Chris Hawker, said that there's no such thing as a million dollar idea, only million dollar executions.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  That's a great way to put it.

• 30:33Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, yeah, you know, everyone's got a million dollar idea, I guess, but unless you execute it, nothing's going to happen. So, and you know, part two of your book is all about action.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  And getting moving and using the obstacles against themselves. Um, and you also talk about, you say, do your job and do it right. And when I think of that, you know, I think of the book, the four agreements. I forget the author's name, but he says, always give your best is one of the four agreements.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  And, um, what is, what is, what is your definition of that? Or what's, what do you mean by do your job and do it right?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  I think, you know, one of the quotes I like from the book is Andrew Carnegie. He's talking about how often when we started business, young people are introduced to the broom for the first time. And what he means is like, you have to sweep the floors. That's the only thing you're qualified for. And they're making you sweep the floors. And he's saying the problem with a lot of successful people, or people who are born into success, is they never have to do that. They don't learn how it works. And they're sort of embarrassed or ashamed by it, or they refuse to, they refuse to humble themselves in that way. So in that chapter, I'm sort of, I'm talking, like, President Andrew Johnson was a tailor before he became a politician. Andrew Garfield, yeah, Andrew Garfield was a, was a janitor. That's how he paid his way through college.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Um, you know, Booker T. Washington was sort of one of the most amazing success stories in American history. Um, he, his college admissions was, uh, like, there's this great story, it's not in the book, I read it after, but, um, he walked like eighty miles or something because he heard there was this college that was accepting black kids. And he goes into the admissions office and he's just sitting there and he's like, look, I'll wait all day for an interview, just please let me into your school. Uh, and they're like, well, the president's not going to be here for like eight hours. You just gotta sit and wait. And he's like, okay. And while he was sitting and waiting, he cleaned the waiting room. Like, he swept it, he dusted, he moved everything around, he cleaned the waiting room.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  And when the president came in, he saw what had happened, he's like, you're in. Um, and, and so I think, I think what happens is, um, we have these ideas about what we are entitled to, or what we deserve, and that prevents us from hustling and taking advantage of opportunities that might seem a little beneath us, but are actually quite excellent. And so I think your job in every situation is to, is to work hard, to be honest, um, to, and, and to do your best, right? And That's your job. So you can never be prevented from doing your job. It might not be exactly where you want to do it. It might not pay you exactly as you want,

• 33:14Speaker 01

  but you can always try as hard as you can. That's that. And this sort of ties into the last third of the book, which I assume we'll talk about, which is, no one can ever prevent you from trying as hard as you can, right? The economy can tank and wreck everything that you've built, but it can't prevent you from having tried as hard. You can have a bad boss who treats you shitty, but you can still try as hard as you can. Like you can, your effort is something that you independently control a hundred percent. And that means that it's an opportu- that that means that you can never be impeded there. And I think people get so focused on the areas that they can be impeded that they forget that they always control the amount of effort that they put towards a task.

• 33:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think this is a, you know, a great example for, you know, for business like you talked about and getting a, you know, going to school, you gave that mention there, but I think it's like, it makes so much sense with sports. You know, every little kid dreams of being in the, in the professional leagues, being in the NFL or Major League Baseball. There's no way that he, even if he wants to be there right then, he's not entitled to it. He's got to go through the process. He's got to start with T-ball and then move up. And every coach starts off being like an assistant, you know, unpaid.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 34:30Lewis Howes?

  Film boy, uh, you know, that's just like taking film or practice all day. And then works his, works his way up.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  I love these lawsuits where like interns have been suing like magazines and movie producers for like not paying them as interns. And it's like, look, I get it's like Sheryl Shan- Sheryl Sandberg got in trouble recently because like, she's a billionaire and she put out a free job posting for an intern. And it's like, I don't, I don't want to be flip about it, but sometimes when you're young and you don't know anything, your time is worthless. All you have is effort, right? That's what like, and, and when you're working for someone really successful who can teach you. You, I would almost like I, if, if I was in a different place.

• 35:15Lewis Howes?

  You'd pay for it.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  I would pay Sheryl Sandberg to let me work for her. Right, exactly. And, and I think people are so, they're so consumed by notions of fairness or equity or money or whatever, that these opportunities, they pass on them deliberately when it could change their lives.

• 35:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, uh, it's, it's interesting. My brother, he's a, one of the top jazz violinists in the world. He used to teach at, at Berkeley School of Music and, you know, toured with Les Paul for 10 years and is, is the guy in, in jazz violin. And, uh, he has students that, you know, pay him for, for coaching to be like mentored by him. They pay him like 10 grand a year to do a certain amount of lessons and just, and supposed to going to school. They just work with the best and it's basically become, you know, an intern for him.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, they learn how to become a better jazz violinist because of it. So I, I, I agree with that philosophy of like, if you want to get the position that you want, go find the best person and the person that inspires you and say, hey, I will work for you for free or I will pay you to like, you know, give me your time, you know, cause it's really, their time is really invaluable. And unless you're gonna bring so much to the table, why would they give you the time of the day? So.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Right. Well, I like, one of the other things I have in the book that I think has stuck with me since I read it. Someone gave me this book in high school, which is Viktor Frankl's, uh, book, The Man's Search for Meaning. And he, he was the, which you would love, by the way, you should totally read this book.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Um, he, he was the survivor of three different concentration camps. He lost his whole family. It was terrible, right? Um, and he became a psychologist afterwards and he sort of studied like the meaning of life. That was what he looked at. And he found that, he found that people sort of asked that question in a very presumptuous way. They're like, what's the meaning of life? As though like life owes you an answer. And he's saying like, no, actually. Life is asking you that question. And you have to find meaning in what you do and how you behave. And you you answer it, you answer the question, what is the meaning of life?

• 37:21Speaker 01

  With action and with how you create and generate meaning through your relationships and through the people that you love and through the things that you do with your time. And that flip, I think, is really important, you know, like too many kids and and I see them too, and I was like this myself, but it's like, you know, what can you do for me? Rather than like, like, what what is Sheryl Sandberg gonna pay me? Well, really, it's like, it should be a hundred percent the other direction, like, what can I learn from this person? What can I give them that will make them wanna teach me?

• 37:57Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yeah, what can I give?

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:00Lewis Howes?

  You know, focusing outward as opposed to inward, which is something you talk about as well in the book. And yeah, it's all about. In my opinion, it's all about giving and being of service and creating that meaning for yourself, but.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 38:14Lewis Howes?

  You talk about will, what is will?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yes, so I I use the the, you know, I think we know willpower, which I think we think of as sort of a strength. Um, but the the Stoics have a slightly different definition of will. Will will was this idea of like, look, we don't control the world around us. And how do we assent to these things that happen to us? So a lot of what I talk about in the the last third of the book is not about so much what you can do, but how you respond to the things that happen to you. So, um, you know, I talk about persistence a lot, I talk about this this this philosophy known as amor fati, which is sort of like loving everything that happens to you.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  So instead of just like, oh, I can tolerate that a bad thing happened, or I could tolerate that I fail. It's like, how can you see intensely that something amazing is actually just happened? So I tell the story of of Thomas Edison, um, in his his laboratory burning down. And he actually runs this scene with excitement, he's like enjoying seeing it burned down because it's this like, one, it's like a beautiful sight. And then, two. It was like, and he knew that now he would have to rebuild and it would force him to be creative and try new things. And um it would infuse him with a kind of energy again. So I I look at these people who've had terrible things happen to them. And they responded with like a thoughtfulness and an acceptance.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  And they also kind of other people who who had really bad things happen to them and the first thing they thought of was other people. Like what can I do for other people? So like um one of the one of the famous examples is is in um. The the prison camps of Vietnam, the handful of of Navy and Air Force pilots who were shot down. It was this idea of like, okay, this is like one of the worst things that's ever happened. But I have these men who depend on me and I can't let them down by being weak, by giving in, by giving away information. I've got to like, I've got to be strong for these other people. And so to me, Will is this really strong, super attractive idea. Um it's not about sheer strength.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  It's about endurance and uh fortitude and the ability to be flexible. In front of unchanging things.

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I like that. Flexibility is definitely key because things are always changing.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:43Lewis Howes?

  And if you're set in your ways and your way of thinking that it's supposed to be a certain way. In any moment, you know, something can go in flames, you know, literally or.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:52Lewis Howes?

  You know, not literally, but uh. So being flexible and and being able to do adjust is a huge uh huge component of success. And and you know, that's the obstacle when something big happens, so.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  And it looks like some some situations you can't change and you've got to accept that. Like I think strength and perception, those are all very important in terms of changing obstacles. But some obstacles are are insurmountable, right? Like, you know. You get cancer or uh you lose your arm or you know really bad things can happen and we we have to accept that that does happen in life and then it's how can you use this thing as an opportunity to inspire other people to be strong um you know recently um like my house got broken into and a and a lot of my really prized possessions were stolen and

• 41:45Speaker 01

  it was like I could get I could despair I could be really upset I could be pissed off or I could remind myself that maybe it's not a good idea to have such such a strong attachment to a bunch of material things that could disappear at any moment um and and I think will and willpower sort of pivoted around those ideas makes you extra strong um and it it requires us doing some uncomfortable things it's like you know I I talk about

• 42:14Speaker 01

  uh you know sort of thinking negatively and thinking about like what really is the worst case scenario so you're prepared for it like you know when you launch a product or I'm putting this book out um in May and it might not sell any copies I don't think that's gonna happen and I'm working my ass off to make sure that it does so but like you know god forbid something happens and it doesn't sell um I I can't let that come to me as a shock and I can't let that say anything to me about me as a person and I have to be prepared for that one so I can prevent it but two because I can never guarantee that it won't and I yeah go ahead.

• 42:54Lewis Howes?

  I was just gonna say you know a lot of people are attached to results they're attached to the way they want it to look the way that they think it's supposed to look and like you said you're you're to launch this book and if you were like you know what this has to be a number one New York Times bestseller otherwise I'm gonna feel X and if you if you are attached to the way of results then you're just screwed you're gonna be screwed you're gonna feel a lot of emotional stress you're gonna feel you're you're gonna hesitate moving forward you're probably not gonna take as big a risks and you're gonna you know. Not be as confident, all these things are gonna hold you back. So I think that's a brilliant concept is not being, you know, attached to.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  I think you, I think you said it better than I've ever heard it said before, which is yeah, people are too obsessed with, with or too attached to results and, and you probably learned this in sports, which is what matters is how you played and whether you left everything out on the field. You don't, at the end of the day, you don't control a scoreboard. You don't control.

• 43:55Lewis Howes?

  The refs.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  What happened at the last second, right? And you, you're gonna, there's gonna be games where you did everything you could and you still lost and you have to accept that. And to go back to what we were talking about, about doing your job, what you wanna be able to walk off the field or, you know, the boardroom or, you know, your computer every day is knowing that you did your job. Like you did everything that you could and you were, you were aiming towards the desired result. But whether or not you achieve it, does it impugn the purity of what you, what you did with your effort and with your attempts?

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. I like that. And I think, you know, you give examples about entrepreneurs and how they're flexible and they're not, you know, they're not attached to results. At least successful ones aren't.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:41Lewis Howes?

  Because they're launching things all the time. They're shifting, they're trying new things and they, their intention is to create a specific result, but if they're attached to that, they're probably gonna be a fail, you know, fail long term.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Just like you control your efforts, you control your intention. Like you set out to do this, you set yourself up and then sometimes the world intervenes. And then in that moment, you have the ability to decide whether you switch to something else, whether you use it as an opportunity to do something new. Uh, whether you use it as an opportunity to help other people, like, and it's at that moment when you've put everything you had into something and then the world says, nope, I'm sorry, it's not gonna happen for you. That's where you're being almost most severely tested and how you respond in that moment.

• 45:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Says a lot about you as a person.

• 45:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I wanna shift a little bit out of the book. And I wanna know what your personal vision is.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  My personal vision of what?

• 45:45Lewis Howes?

  Just what's your vision for yourself and the world?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Um, you know, it's, it's, it's really weird being, you know, I, I've, I've been able to accomplish a lot in, you know, a relatively short amount of time. And I always wanted to be a writer. I sort of set myself on, on being like a bestselling author and I wanted to be able to reach people and have an audience. And I, I accomplished that earlier than I set out to do, right? And so for me, that, that the vision is sort of, it's like, how do I, I get to, I, I'm, I'm living like exactly what I dreamed that I would get to do. And now, now I have to think about, you know, how, how can I get better at it? How can I help other people? How can I, um, how can I continue to challenge myself so I don't get complacent?

• 46:33Speaker 01

  And how do I present, like, you know, when you achieve success, temptations come along with success about, you know, starting to associate, you know, with money or with certain kinds of people or coasting on past success. So my personal vision is, is when I think about it, I think about discipline and I think about, you know, paying it forward to a certain degree. Those, those are the two things that I think a lot about. And, and of course, um, getting the best out of myself. So I'm not growing complacent and, you know, I, I never want to be in a position where I'm phoning in it.

• 47:11Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, okay. Now, why do you think that way?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Why do I think that way?

• 47:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, why do you think that way about your vision? Like, why do you want to live that way?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Um, I, I think, you know, I think, um, I think that's your, that's your obligation as a person with, with talent, right? And, uh, I, I think you, you owe, when you have skills, you owe it to the world to continue to pursue those skills and to be good at them and to, to display them and to, to teach them as, as best you can.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  I like that. Now, in my opinion, it's always, uh, someone with extreme talents and has a lot of success early on. I've always seen that to find this thing and so, and everyone who's had this extreme talent and success early on, that there's been a huge obstacle, setback, emotional burden, challenge that they face early on. Is that true with you as well?

• 48:11Speaker 01

  It's weird, I've like, I've been asked that question a fair amount and I know I'm gonna get a bunch more with the book. I'm kind of not trying to talk about my personal obstacles because like I, because like everyone's obstacles are relative, right? And it's like, it's like, the last thing I would want to do is talk about like some breakup I went through when I was like a kid and compare it to like somebody else who was born into like complete and abject poverty, right?

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  So.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  But everyone has, everyone has their own, you know, emotional battles though. And it's, you know, whatever emotional battles we face, doesn't matter which one's bigger than someone else's. It's, it's, uh, it's what drives us.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Totally, and it's what those challenges and, and those obstacles are, are what make us who we are. Um, and so for me, you know, like I dropped out of college when I was nineteen, uh, I sort of self-taught, uh, sort of been in the crucible of, of stress and high stakes and pressure for as long as I can really remember at this point, my entire adult life. So for me, my obstacles, I think there, it's, it's less about like, oh, this big thing happened. And it's more of a, a sort of a daily test, um, with myself and against like the, the other people around me to, to continue to show up every day, to do a good job and to turn, to turn the stress and the pressure

• 49:31Speaker 01

  into something that makes me better, rather than something that, you know, wears me down or feels like a burden.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  Right. The, have you ever always considered yourself an underdog?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't think about myself as like an underdog, but I do, I always, I think, I think there's always something that I'm trying to prove. I don't necessarily know who I'm trying to prove it to. But I, even if it's just myself, but I, I feel like I'm going out there and like, for instance, I'm, I like for exercise, I run. And when you run, you're challenging yourself, right? That's the old, it's how much further can I go? How much faster can I go? I don't want to go today, but I'm gonna go anyway. So for me, it's that sort of, I think I'm always challenging myself and that's who I'm competing against, like my own standards for myself, rather than like I'm an underdog against these other people.

• 50:28Lewis Howes?

  What do you think's more important? Having a wise mind or a big heart?

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Well, I would say that without, without either, you're sort of, you're sort of lost, but um.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  I don't, it, what do I want? I'd rather have more people out there with big hearts than wise minds. But I would say that I, I would, weirdly, I would say that I think, I think in some ways it's easier to have a wise mind than a big heart.

• 51:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Why do you say that?

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Um, because a wise, it's like, is it? A wise mind is about the, the sort of the journey and the things that you subject yourself to. And I think a big heart is about empathy and being able to put yourself in other people's shoes and think about other people. And maybe that's just more difficult for me personally, but I think, you know, one is a, one, one is a, is a, a journey that only you go on and the other is something that you do with other people.

• 51:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow. I love that interpretation of that.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Do you ask everyone these questions?

• 51:39Lewis Howes?

  Uh, I don't think, I don't think I've ever asked anyone that question.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Interesting. It's a good question. It's a good question. I bet it reveals a lot about people.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  Why do you have a challenge? So, so do you, you say, you say you struggle with that? Is that what you're saying?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think so. I think, I think having a big heart is, uh, I think it's easy to be selfish and, and, you know, focus on yourself.

• 52:01Lewis Howes?

  Right. Huh. Interesting. Okay.

• 52:08Lewis Howes?

  Now here's a question that I asked Simon Sinek recently on a, on an episode. And he was like, he wanted to come back and do a whole episode on this. So I'm interested in your

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  interpretation of this, being younger. How old are you now?

• 52:21Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm 26.

• 52:22Lewis Howes?

  26. And I think he's like almost his late 30s or something like that.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know Simon. He's great.

• 52:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So.

• 52:30Lewis Howes?

  I asked him, you know, I feel like you've got a big vision for the world, right? Like for your place in the world, you want to achieve big things, you want to have a big impact. You want to reach a large number of people and inspire them through your message, through your words, through your content. And do you think, and you also have a girlfriend?

• 52:47Speaker 01

  I do, fiance, yeah.

• 52:49Lewis Howes?

  Fiance, that's right. Congratulations, by the way. And she's lovely and you guys have a goat, which is

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Two, we have two goats.

• 52:54Lewis Howes?

  Two goats, which is amazing. I see your pictures on Instagram and stuff, or her pictures anyways. And um, mom, I'm curious, since you guys have been together for like six years now, I think, so do you believe that you can have a huge impact on the world? And also have a balance with a relationship, be married and have children? And have an impact on them with as much intensity? Can you have both, basically?

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Um, can you, can you have like extreme success and a balanced, normal personal life?

• 53:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you know, I think of like Oprah, I think of people who aren't married, like Oprah and some other people that are changing the world based on a lot of people's minds and um, but don't think they can have kids and be married because of it.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I've, I've dealt with a lot of really, really successful people, like people who have been way more successful than I intend to be or probably ever will be. And what I see when I look at them and I compare myself to them is there's like something missing, like they have an extra either drive or peace or perhaps a darkness or a need that has to be fulfilled that I don't, that I don't have as much, right? And like, I love being home with, with Samantha. I, I, I take a lot of great pleasure and value out of that relationship. And it means more to me than certain kinds of success, like.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  So like, I, I feel like, like my work is what I'm meant to do and it, it's, it's very valuable and I feel obligated to it. But I also don't feel, um,

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Like, I think there are probably things that I could do or steps that I could take that would double or triple my income.

• 54:42Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  That are not important to me because that money doesn't mean anything to me. And the cost that it would have would be too much for me. So, in a weird way, I feel like having been in this relationship for a long time, it's made me, it's made me successful. It, has it held me back in, has it held me back in some ways that other people were not held back? Yes, but I would say gladly and that it helped me because I don't, a lot of the really successful people that I know have a sort of a darkness or a demon that I bet they wish they could be free of.

• 55:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Interesting. Their own obstacle.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Sure, like, you know, there, it's one thing to feel like you have something to prove and it's another thing to feel like you're never getting any closer to proving it. And that's, like, that's a terrible curse.

• 55:37Lewis Howes?

  That's like, that's being like paralyzed to, you know, that, that way of thinking.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, like, look, do you want to be Napoleon, which, where you, you accomplish everything and then lose it all, um, because you want more and more and more? Like, that doesn't, that's not appealing to me. I would much rather stay at home and have a, have a happy life in, in obscurity.

• 56:00Lewis Howes?

  Right. I like it, man. Well, any final thoughts on, uh, the obstacles, the way?

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Uh, no, no, I mean, I, I tried to leave it all out in the book. I'm, I'm really, really happy and proud of it. I think it's, for me, it's weird to say this about something you did, but it's, it's like one of those, i- if anyone has ever worked on something and then you sort of look at the final product, you're like, wow, where did that come from? For me, that, this is that. So, I, I'm, I'm really happy with it. And I, I'm, I really feel indebted to all the people who contributed to it and the people whose stories, you know, make up the book. And, um, you know, I, I hope people enjoy it and if they ever have questions, they can reach out to me and I'm, I'm happy to help or answer anything.

• 56:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and this is a book, you know, after going through this book and, uh, you know, I'm holding it in my hands right now. I'm like, I would be really proud if I could write a book this.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 56:52Lewis Howes?

  So, uh, definitely, congratulations and I encourage everyone to go check it out, buy it on Amazon. Uh, where can we find you online? Where can we find the book? Where can we connect with you? And, you know?

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. So RyanHoliday.net is, is my site. Uh, I'm on Twitter at RyanHoliday. And then I give out monthly book recommendations on my site. There's like a little thing that comes up. But I like all the, all the books that made up this book, I've, I've been recommending over the last six years to something like 15,000 people. I, I send out these, these, um, all, all the favorite books that I read every month, um, that I recommend them there. And I, I hope to, to recommend some to, to the people that listen to this.

• 57:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I encourage you guys to go sign up for that. It's a, it's an awesome little, little email delivery there. So Ryan, final question.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:42Lewis Howes?

  What's your definition of greatness?

• 57:45Speaker 01

  My definition of greatness? Uh, greatness is, uh, maybe what we were talking about where it's when you've given everything that you have to a single idea or concept.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  And, uh, you've built that. I like that line. There's a line from, um, what is his name? Um, the, the playwright who wrote Streetcar and Desiree says it's, uh, etching your name in a, in a cake of ice on a hot day. I think that's greatness.

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Ryan Holiday. Thanks so much for coming on, my man. I appreciate you.

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  And thanks so much for listening to this episode with Ryan. Again, make sure to check out his book, The Obstacle is the Way: The Time is Art of Turning Trials into Triumph. You can check them out at RyanHoliday.net and, uh, his book is on Amazon and all over the place. So check that out. Give Ryan some love and some support. Pick up a copy or two. Give one away to a friend and, uh, I know you're gonna love it. It was a, it was a great read for me and I know you'll love it as well. And make sure to check out the show notes over at schoolofgreatness.com or LewisHowes.com. And if you guys like this episode, go ahead and subscribe. Please subscribe over on iTunes. And leave a review if you like this episode. Go ahead and leave a review. Subscribe to it on iTunes,

• 59:14Lewis Howes?

  or if you're on Stitcher, subscribe to it over on Stitcher, uh, over on SoundCloud. We've got a big platform over there as well. All your support, whenever you subscribe, you're really saying that you are supporting the episode and the show as a whole. And it helps us get the, the message out there to more people. So please subscribe, leave a review, leave a comment over on the blog, LewisHowes.com. And I appreciate you guys so much for your energy, your time, listening and tuning in each and every week. We've got more episodes coming up. I want to be staggering more episodes weekly, two or three a week because I've been getting such, uh, so many requests and such demand for that. So be tuned for more guests

• 59:58Lewis Howes?

  and a lot more solo rounds for me. I haven't done a solo round in a while. Um, but get ready for all this good stuff coming soon. Hope you guys enjoyed this one. Again, please leave a review and subscribe over on iTunes, Stitcher and SoundCloud. I love you guys. Thanks so much for tuning in and I'll see you guys next time on The School of Greatness. You know what time it is? It's time to go out there and do something great.