637 Sex, Love and Relationships From Master Coaches

"When you become rare, people become really terrified of losing you." - Matthew Hussey I know I get huge value every time I sit across from an expert and hear their wisdom about one of the most important parts of my life -- my relationships. We've had some amazing relationship coaches on the podcast through the years, but some of the episodes are so old, I know you may not remember them (or have ever heard them). That's why I wanted to put together another mashup episode from the archives to share some of these gems with you. If you enjoyed last week's mashup episode on High Performance Habits, you're going to love this one. We're first featuring a clip from my good friend and global dating icon Matthew Hussey. This is still one of the most popular episodes we've ever recorded. Then we dive into part of my conversation with Tracy McMillan, an Oprah favorite, a long-term TV writer, and relationship expert. I love how real and honest Tracy is in this episode. Last, we feature the master therapist herself, bestselling author and powerhouse coach Esther Perel (who has been on the podcast twice and spoken at Summit of Greatness). I think you'll love each clip for a different reason -- and I want to know! Let me know by messaging me on social media @lewishowes. If you're looking for some insight into making your intimate relationships better, look no further than this mashup Episode 637. In this episode you will learn: The problem with having a sense of entitlement in dating (5:05) What makes you attractive beyond your best quality (10:10) The biggest mistake people make in dating (12:41) How to get through the rough patches of a relationship (17:13) The importance of humor in relationships (19:35) How to work with your partner when they are triggered (20:55) Why monogamy is a choice (26:45) Plus much more... Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 637, The Masters of Relationships.

• 0:08Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:34Lewis Howes?

  Henry Ford said, "Coming together is a beginning. Keeping together is progress. Working together is success." This episode's a little different, my friends. We did something last week all about high-performance habits, where we took highlights from people like Tony Robbins, Mel Robbins, Brendon Burchard, and others. And we gave you some incredible wisdom in one episode from these highlights on one topic. And we thought we'd do it again on the keys to powerful relationships, marriage, sex, love, from the world's greatest relationship experts and coaches. And again, if you haven't listened to the last one on high-performance habits,

• 1:19Lewis Howes?

  make sure to listen to that after this one. But this one right here, we're featuring Matthew Hussey, my good friend and one of the leading experts on relationships for women, on how to get the guy and keep the guy in thriving relationships. We also have Tracey McMillan, which was a huge hit a number of years ago that most people didn't hear, but I think she has some powerful nuggets that you're gonna love. And then one of my favorites as well, Esther Perel. Every sentence she says is just so valuable. I'm on the edge of my seat every time I hear her talk, so I know you guys are gonna enjoy this one. Make sure to share it with your friends, lewishouse.com/637.

• 2:01Lewis Howes?

  And let me know your most favorite part from this episode. It doesn't matter if you're looking to date someone, you're looking to get married, you're in a marriage, or you just want to have... Better relationships in general. This one is going to be a powerful one for you. And before we dive in, want to give a shout out to the fan of the week. This is from Kate Stew, who said, "Without fail, after each School of Greatness podcast I listen to, I want to call up a loved one and gush to them about the guest speaker and their journey. This podcast will leave you feeling inspired, moved, and antsy to get out and make a difference in this world. Personally, this podcast has had a profound impact on my life. Louis and his guests have provided me with comfort, wisdom, and motivation during what

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  has been a very dramatic year." And Kate Stew goes on to share more and more and more, but we'll leave it at that. And again, big thank you to Kate Stew. If you guys haven't left a review yet, we are just about 3,000 five-star reviews over on the podcast, which humbles me. So I appreciate all the feedback and the support. And if you haven't left a review, make sure to head over there on your podcast app, or just go to iTunes, and you can leave a review on the School of Greatness. It would mean the world to me. All right, guys, I'm excited about this one. Again, for me, the key to success in life is relationships. Without relationships, it's hard to create anything, really. It's hard to get to where you want to be in your

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  career. It's hard to get to where you want to be personally. It's hard to build a family. It's really hard to be happy if you're just alone all the time. We thrive from a community and through intimate, personal, deeply connected relationships. So without further ado, let me introduce you to the masters of relationships on this episode 637.

• 3:55Matthew Hussey?

  I think there's something of a sense of entitlement that most of us have, or that most people have when they're going out to date, where they somehow feel like they're just owed the love of their life, that it shouldn't be difficult, that they don't have to do anything, that it's enough, that they are just them. You know, it's the, you know, there's, I don't know if you've ever seen Bridget Jones, but there's a, there's a line in Bridget Jones where, forget his name, Colin Firth, I think it is. He's, he's looking at Bridget and he's, I think- He says, I love exactly how you are. I love you like no changes, nothing. I love you exactly

• 4:40Matthew Hussey?

  how you are. And it sometimes we feel like we're owed that. And it kind of becomes an excuse again

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  Be lazy.

• 4:49Matthew Hussey?

  To grow, not to, you know, I don't frankly, it doesn't really matter what you think you're owed in love. No one cares.

• 4:59Lewis Howes?

  I think it's the same thing with work and you know, so many people are entitled and they think they should just get a job.

• 5:03Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah. And so the biggest criticism I get all the time, which I'm happy with as a criticism of my advice is, well, why do you need to do all of this stuff? Why can't you just, you know, go through life and, and, you know, when the time is right, you'll know. Why, why do you have to do all of these techniques? I'm happy with that criticism. If you, if you, if that's what you think, you're not my audience. Because my audience are the same people that go to a business seminar to make more money. They're the same people that say, you know what, um, if I want to start a business, I might actually need to know what the hell I'm doing. It's not enough to have confidence in life. You have to have competence.

• 5:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Matthew Hussey?

  You have to actually know what you're doing. And, and that's what a lot of people don't know in their love lives. If you, for example, there's, there's something I come, I came to understand. I was, I remember once having a breakup. It was the most painful breakup I've ever had. I was really, really in a bad way over it. And a while later, I spoke to this, to this woman on the phone and I had said to her on the, in a brave moment on the phone, I said, why did, why did you want to break up? Cause by the way.

• 6:10Lewis Howes?

  You talked to the, the woman you were dating?

• 6:12Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah, the, the one that had.

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  Later on the phone.

• 6:14Matthew Hussey?

  Later, like a year or two later. It was less raw. I was feeling a little more.

• 6:18Lewis Howes?

  How long was the relationship for?

• 6:20Matthew Hussey?

  A couple of years.

• 6:21Lewis Howes?

  Okay, wow.

• 6:22Matthew Hussey?

  And, um, and I was, I was pretty cut up about it. Now, the funny thing was, uh, to make a long story short, she had actually done something I didn't like and that I thought was inappropriate and disrespectful. And I remember going to her the next day and saying, I think we need to break up.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  During the relationship, she did this, yeah?

• 6:41Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah. And, uh, she. Then said to me, okay, that was when I knew she was breaking up with me. It wasn't, it wasn't, you know, when you, you think you're breaking up with them?

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  No, she was already doing it.

• 6:54Matthew Hussey?

  She was breaking up with me and it was, what was so painful about it is that she was, she didn't mind. I was, I thought she might get upset. I thought, no, she didn't mind. And that was the most painful part about it. And I.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  You shouldn't even fake it. You know, most women would fake that they might, I can't believe this, but they're really.

• 7:12Matthew Hussey?

  I know, I know. No, she looked like she was, okay, this is a good decision. So I, so I, I remember a while later, we were on the phone and we were, we became, we're friends today. We're very good friends in fact. And I had said to her on the phone, um, why did we break up? I said, what, what was it for you that I wasn't doing? And I braced myself for the answer. She said, do you really want to know?

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  Honest feedback.

• 7:38Matthew Hussey?

  And I said, I literally thought to myself, wait, do I really want to know? And I said, I gritted my teeth and I went, yeah, I want to know. She said, um, you were boring and.

• 7:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:49Matthew Hussey?

  It was so much worse than I thought it would be. Do you know what I mean? Like not, not just like, oh, well, you know, it was just, I was young and I was the, you know, wanted to be free. No, you were boring. It was really cutting and I, I remember resisting the urge to bite back. And I said.

• 8:08Lewis Howes?

  That wasn't boring.

• 8:09Matthew Hussey?

  Exactly. I said, no, you're, shut up idiot. Just, you asked a question. So now, listen. So I said, why was I boring? She said, you, she said, when I first met you, you were the most ambitious person I'd ever met. And she said, I'd never met someone with such an ability to decide they want something and then get it. And she said, it was so sexy. She said, but as we went into our relationship, the more time went on, the more that was all you were. You were super ambitious. You knew how to get what you want, but you were so one dimensional. You know, it was all you did. Even in our free time, you were just, you were on the phone, you were on your laptop.

• 8:50Matthew Hussey?

  You would talk about your business. You were always talking shop. There was never anything else you had to talk about. We didn't do anything spontaneous. We never went and had adventures. It was just all one track. And she said, it got boring. Yeah. And said, wow, she was right. She was right. There was nothing I could argue with. And I realized something in that moment. The thing that makes, that one quality can make you really attractive. Right. But it won't keep someone. Can make you get the person. Right. It can make you sexy. It can make you intriguing. Mysterious. Right. But it can even for a time make someone worship or idolize you.

• 9:30Matthew Hussey?

  One quality, but one quality will not hold someone because the reality was there was a flip side to ambition, which would have made it eminently more attractive. And there are a few, right? If you pair ambition, say, with an ability to enjoy life. Now that person is Really sexy. Super sexy. You combine ambition with a sense of spontaneity, for example. Adventure. Very, very sexy. Yes. Ambition on its own is, when you look at it from afar, very, very attractive. You go, women will say, I want an ambitious man. I like that. But when they get up close, if it's only one side to a coin,

• 10:15Matthew Hussey?

  it quickly becomes unattractive. Someone I'm a big fan of, unfortunately has passed, but Christopher Hitchens. He, he once said about love, that the challenge is in not allowing your strengths to negate themselves. And that's a very powerful statement because my ambition was my greatest strength that also had the ability to be the thing that crippled me. Because what happens is when you get good at something and you get validation from it. You keep doing it and get better at it. And it becomes, if you're not careful, a muscle that you, that you train to the point of mutation.

• 10:55Matthew Hussey?

  And then every other part of you is is is not working is i i i has atrophied. Yeah. So now you have a complete imbalance. It's like, you know, I remember working out at the gym once and my trainer, I was I was doing pull ups and was trying to work out my back. My back was fine. I could keep going. And then all of a sudden, my my forearms gave up while I was trying to pull myself up. And I said, this is so annoying. We're trying to work my back, but my fore and my back's fine, but my forearms have given up. Right. He said, you're only as strong as your weakest link. If your if your forearms aren't aren't there, you're not going to be able to train your back as well as you could. Yeah. So so here's the the the point about this, which I find very interesting about dating, to your point of what's the biggest mistake people make.

• 11:40Matthew Hussey?

  Apart from, of course, the entitlement, it's over reliance on a key strength that they have come to rely on as their source of validation, success, confidence. Right. Over reliance on that. I had come to over rely on essentially being ahead of the curve for my age. Yeah. That was like the thing that I was always based my confidence on was I am way ahead of the curve for people my age. My business is going great. Correct. The people I grew up with in my in my age group are not where I am. Just are still living at home. But guess what? That alone is boring. Yeah.

• 12:21Matthew Hussey?

  It's boring and it doesn't make an interesting, rounded, sexy person. But when you combine it with something else, it becomes what I call unique pairing. It's a bit like if I if I wanted to really get a woman attracted tonight, not me, but like send a guy out to get a woman attracted. I could literally, if if he went in and he was a little cocky and teasing, but in the right way, not arrogant, obnoxious, but just he knew how to he knew how to play with her. And then a couple of hours in later, you know, maybe it's getting late. He comes out of the restroom and after being teasing and playful and silly, he says, you know what? It's getting late. Um, I called you a car.

• 13:02Matthew Hussey?

  I don't want you walking outside. And he says, I have to go as well. I have to get up early. He takes her outside. He gives her a little kiss. He says, all jokes aside, I've had the best night with you tonight. I'll call you later this week. Puts her in the car, car drives away. That woman will be going, oh crap. I like this guy. Now, the reason wasn't because he was a gentleman. And it wasn't because he was cocky and teasing. It was because he was both. Yeah. It's the and. If he does just one thing, it's not interesting enough. Cause you can replace the cocky guy like that. Women know that. Yes. They can go out tonight and meet a cocky guy in Hollywood any night of the week.

• 13:47Matthew Hussey?

  They can go out the next, they don't even have to go out the next night. They can turn to their left and meet another one straight away. By the way, they, even though people complain about chivalry is dead, you can go out and meet a gentleman. You can go out and meet lots of nice guys. That's all they are. Right. Incredibly boring. Women will never, they don't hold a woman, right? So, but now you find like what seems to be a good man, but with an edge. That's a unique pairing. Yes. And that's someone that becomes not an attraction, but an addiction. Oh. And there's a, and there's a, a big, big difference. So I, I believe that we will actually, I believe these pairings already exist within us, but we've overtrained certain muscles. We've overtrained certain qualities that we've gotten used to as habit.

• 14:32Matthew Hussey?

  For some people, it's being funny. For other people, it's being intellectual and they always, they're the person that knows everything about everything. They've read every book. They can always quote so and so. For others, it's being seductive. That's the thing they got really good at. So they're really good at, you know, getting someone into bed or, or getting someone sexually attracted. But they're never the person you want to eat pizza with the next day. You know, so it's like, it, it's finding those combinations that make you go, oh my God, the person I was with last night, they were this and they were this. It's the and, the and is where it's at. What else they could do. Exactly. And you're, and by the way, that's what makes it so hard. I, I say this to everybody. If you want to know. Why you found it so hard to get over a certain ex?

• 15:17Matthew Hussey?

  Look for the unique pairing.

• 15:18Speaker 03

  Oh, because they had multiple things.

• 15:20Matthew Hussey?

  There was, there was some unique pairing that made you feel like they were difficult to replace.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 15:27Matthew Hussey?

  And, and that's what scares us. The more unique pairings you have, the more you become a rare bird in the dating marketplace.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:34Matthew Hussey?

  Right? And, and when you become rare, people get really terrified of, of losing you.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  Well, again, this is where I engage with the, with faith. And I engage with like a higher power. Because, you know, I'm down here on the human plane. It is not Google satellite view. It's not Google Earth. You're not way up here in your life going, having a crystal ball, knowing everything. So for me, you know, on, in one way, you want to note how you feel. But then in another way, it's like, there's not one relationship on this planet that doesn't, that feels good all the time. Because when you're coming up against your own material, it doesn't feel good. So you have to be willing to not feel good. A lot of the time. Yeah, sometimes, a lot of the time, you know, it's more like,

• 16:29Speaker 03

  sometimes you don't feel good, a lot of the time. Right. Sometimes you feel good, most of the time. It's like, you just have to roll with it. So how do I, I was on the phone with a girl yesterday who, um, and she's like, well, how do I know if this relationship is right for me? I'm like, I wouldn't think so much in those terms. I would say, what am I here to learn today? What is this relationship teaching me to, today? What is it asking me to look at in myself? Why don't I just look at that? Right now. Right this second, yes. Not worrying about like five years from now, is it going to work out? Or what happens if this happens in the future? And not even focusing on the relationship, focusing on myself and what I'm here to look at. Okay.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  And then see what happens as I start to look at myself and focus on what I'm learning and practicing what I need to practice. Cause there's always a lesson, there's always a practice, spiritual practice, a growth that's trying to happen. So as I focus on that growth. What I've found is that the relationship tends to find an equilibrium, you know? And then if it's supposed to go away, it will just go away and it will easily go away with ease and grace.

• 17:36Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  If it's supposed to stay, it will stay and I will somehow make it through that tough day or that tough week or whatever it is. So I sort of take the focus off.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  Is this the right person?

• 17:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's not the right question.

• 17:49Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  I don't think it's the right question. I think that leads us to swap out people.

• 17:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  And there I still am.

• 17:55Lewis Howes?

  And putting it on other people, not on ourselves. Saying I haven't found the right fit yet or whatever. So I'm gonna keep swapping around and keep going from guy to guy or girl to girl.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  And like I'm that person who, I always joke that I'm that person who I could be lying if like, if I did that and just did what came naturally to me, I would be lying on my deathbed, holding the hand of my new boyfriend. Because I'm just gonna.

• 18:19Lewis Howes?

  That you met like six months prior.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I'm just gonna keep swapping out for the next person. Not everybody's like that, but I know that I am.

• 18:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Again, it's about knowing yourself.

• 18:28Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  You know?

• 18:30Lewis Howes?

  I like that. I like that. What's the importance of humor during all the challenging, messy times, frustrating, triggering times that come up for you?

• 18:39Speaker 03

  To me, it's everything. Like, I think everything's funny.

• 18:42Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 18:42Speaker 03

  It's all funny. There is a humorous aspect to everything because.

• 18:46Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think people so much, put so much weight on these situations that come up for them in relationships? Or he or she did said this.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:54Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think there's so much weight?

• 18:56Speaker 03

  To me, it's like some unresolved childhood thing.

• 18:58Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:59Speaker 03

  Like basically, there's a saying, if I'm hysterical, it's historical. So if like, if I'm having a big, giant reaction to something, it's old. It's old. It's from history. It's from mommy, daddy, toddler. I don't know when, but it's old.

• 19:16Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're reacting based on a fear or a trigger or something that caused that in the past.

• 19:21Speaker 03

  So much bigger, yes.

• 19:22Lewis Howes?

  Than the moment.

• 19:23Speaker 03

  Exactly. If the, if the reaction is super big to like a very small thing, chances are it's related to something in the past, like something old.

• 19:33Lewis Howes?

  So how does someone be aware of that to, let's say, we're in a relationship and you freak out for some reason about something? How can I then work with my partner?

• 19:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 19:43Lewis Howes?

  In that moment to not react and be like, "You crazy woman."

• 19:47Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 19:48Lewis Howes?

  Um, which would be a trigger for me in my past to do the same thing. How can someone be, you know, trained to?

• 19:54Speaker 03

  That's hard. That is really hard work.

• 19:56Lewis Howes?

  Be calm and loving and humorous, but not offensive.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Exactly. That's the key. Well, I think the first thing is to know is that if we were really into each other when we first met, chances are the stuff that triggers me is going to interlock with the stuff that triggers you. So we just got to know, we're going to spend a whole probably year or maybe more just crashing into each other.

• 20:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:21Speaker 03

  Just crashing into each other like, "I'm going to have one of my big reactions. That's going to trigger some really old stuff for you. And then that's going to trigger really old stuff for me." And then duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Then it's time to roll up your sleeves and get to work in the relationship. So that's like maybe, you know, somewhere between, let's say you have your first fight about six months in, somewhere in there. The honeymoon wears off somewhere between a year and 18 months. It's like, you know, and this is all chemical. There's like all these neurotransmitters that are happening for the first six to 18 months that gradually drop off and then things start to get real.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  And so then these triggers will happen. And if you know that's coming, then it's like, I mean, I recommend therapy for everybody, you know? And if it's too intense to do therapy together, then you do it on your own. And they say, you know, you bring your problems to your therapy and your, um, whatever you're doing to like grow as a human and you bring the solutions to the relationship. So then as you work through these and you stay committed, one day at a time. You're staying committed, staying committed. And then as these things, little by little, you'll start to see, they'll start to like, you'll get a little bit of space in there where I have a reaction and this time you're able to be not triggered.

• 21:36Lewis Howes?

  More compassionate, loving.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Well, and just be detached, like, "Oh, that's Tracy and her dad thing again."

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  Right. And I don't have to take it personal this time.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. But that, I don't think anybody should be surprised when that takes a couple of years.

• 21:50Lewis Howes?

  Right. Especially if you haven't been trained or you don't have the tools on how to handle those emotions because it can be very messy. And our egos can get in the way and. Mess things up even more.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  And now, exactly. And at times, people will choose a partner who doesn't trigger them that much. That's another solution. But a lot of times, those relationships aren't as rich because being

• 22:11Lewis Howes?

  Triggered.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  It's really an opportunity to resolve a bunch of stuff. It's like a really rich place.

• 22:17Lewis Howes?

  What happens if after two years, you're not being triggered anymore by your partner? Does that mean you should just go on to the next one? Or it's not rich anymore?

• 22:24Speaker 03

  Different people have different, again, this is where you gotta know who you are. Like, some people, I want a certain amount of intensity. I know that.

• 22:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  I want like a dynamic, whoa, operating. Passion. Yes, that's what I need. Now, I've had them quieter relationship and that isn't, doesn't fit me as well.

• 22:43Lewis Howes?

  Kind of spicy and...

• 22:45Speaker 03

  It's just that I'm interested in, it's like, some people are interested in like, the black diamond ski run and other people, you know, and it's, there's no right or wrong.

• 22:55Lewis Howes?

  One for the green.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  It's just about what's right for you and are you a match with your partner?

• 22:59Lewis Howes?

  What's your definition of love?

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, well, I have so many. Love to me, like, the biggest definition is it's, it's like that pervasive force that is everywhere. And that when you tune into it, you're in it. And it, it's not, it can be extrapolated in any direction. It could be in your work, it could be, you know, walking down the street. It could be in a love relationship, like a sexual relationship. It could be between parent and child. So there's just like this thing that is there and it's, it's always there, it's everywhere and you can tune into it or not. So when you tune into that, you're in love.

• 23:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  So, and then from there comes, what we think of as like romantic love or, romantic love is, to me, it's service. It's like, it's like, I'm here to help you become more you, for me to become more me and to walk a path with you.

• 24:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  And just like, in my relationship, we talk a lot about sitting on the end of the bed for the other person, you know, like, I just, sometimes you just, you need a friend. There's just somebody to sit on the end of the bed. It's like a witness.

• 24:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:24Esther Perel?

  Monogamy is a practice. We are not by nature, biologically, evolutionary, monogamous. It's a practice, it's a choice.

• 24:35Lewis Howes?

  It's not our makeup.

• 24:37Esther Perel?

  No. And it's a choice, and monogamy is a continuum. You have mind, you have fantasy, you have memory, you have a lot of things. At what point do we become non-monogamous? Where does non-monogamy start? And all of these concepts are fluid concepts today. There is just no way to define it like that.

• 25:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:01Esther Perel?

  So, we make our choices, and we make compromises, and we sometimes don't just do what we want. And we often need to think about the consequences of our actions. And we need to think about the larger picture, and something that may be perfectly desirable for tonight may not be worth it for the next weeks and the next years.

• 25:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 25:25Esther Perel?

  And I think that in the era of self-fulfillment and the right to happiness, we don't have more desires today than the previous generations. We just feel more entitled to fulfill our desires. And we feel that we have a right to be happy, my personal happiness. The switch, the greatest switch, is from a social organization in which I think about the well-being of others. Collectiveist thinking thinks about the well-being of others, and I sacrifice my own individual needs for the well-being of others. To the other side of the continuum is, I have a right to pursue my individual needs, and the others will have to adapt to it.

• 26:09Esther Perel?

  And I think that we are a little bit on the extreme end of the other side at this point. We really take ourselves a little very seriously. And sometimes at a detriment of other people to whom we do have an obligation and a commitment to, not just our partners.

• 26:26Lewis Howes?

  The world.

• 26:26Esther Perel?

  The world.

• 26:27Lewis Howes?

  So where should we be? Somewhere in the middle, you think, or what's...

• 26:30Esther Perel?

  In an examined state. I don't know that it's always in the middle, but in an examined state. In a state that doesn't just say what I like, what I feel. The fact that I have options doesn't mean I have to exercise all these options. The problem of consumer life is that we don't know anymore to make choices. Same with the cereals in the supermarket. Why would it be better with love? So, I could get better. I could get better, I'm like, you know, I'm a victim of FOMO. You know, I'm a, how do I know this is the best? No, you don't.

• 27:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:01Esther Perel?

  When do I find the best? No, you don't, you don't find your partner, you choose your partner. It's very different. You know, if you think you're gonna find somebody who is the person who's gonna make you stop looking, it doesn't work this way. Really? No, it doesn't, because at some points your inner rumblings will start up again and then you will say, oh, probably not.

• 27:18Lewis Howes?

  Start looking.

• 27:20Esther Perel?

  You know, it's like you just say, this is it. This is where I decide to put my, my roots in this moment, you know, and I'm gonna, and I'm gonna try to deepen them. I think we are all living with paradoxes of choice.

• 27:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 27:34Esther Perel?

  You know, from, from which phone I get, but we cannot commodify a partner and just kind of beta test the partner and beta test the relationship and check out to see is it good enough or can I find better? You, yes, you can, the fact is, you could find other. I'm not sure it would be better, but you definitely can find other.

• 27:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Esther Perel?

  And there are lots of people you can love and there's only a few you can make a life with. And they're not always the same. There are a lot of people you can have love stories with.

• 28:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:05Esther Perel?

  And have beauty, but they're not the person you would make a life with.

• 28:07Lewis Howes?

  How do you know when it's the person you can make a life with?

• 28:10Esther Perel?

  I think values enter into there a lot more. I mean, you can have magnificent love stories with people you would never live with.

• 28:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:18Esther Perel?

  They're just too different from you. They have not the same values as you. They have not, you, they, they, they, one wants child, one does not. One wants to travel, the other does not. One wants career, the other, the... Very major, different classes, different, different Weltanschauung, as they used to say in German, you know, visions of the world.

• 28:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 28:42Esther Perel?

  But you can love them.

• 28:44Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:44Esther Perel?

  You can have a beautiful love story with that person and be transported in your experience with them. But you know that that's not the person with whom you're going to build

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 28:55Esther Perel?

  a home, a future, a trajectory, maybe a family if you want that. Um, that that's not the person with whom, and for that you need more of shared vision, shared mission, shared values, stuff that is not just in the domain of feelings, but also in the domain of beliefs.

• 29:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 29:16Esther Perel?

  Um, it's different.

• 29:18Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:18Esther Perel?

  Views about money, views about independence and separateness versus connection, views about emotional expressiveness, views about power.

• 29:29Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Wouldn't you say that those differences that we have also attract us to other people? That we have some of those differences? Maybe we don't share the same values or beliefs, but it's also different, unique, interesting? And so it also brings us together, or do you think it's not enough?

• 29:45Esther Perel?

  I think that what attracts you originally is often what becomes the source of conflict later.

• 29:50Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 29:52Esther Perel?

  The very thing that is so attractive because it's different is also the very thing that becomes difficult because it's different.

• 29:58Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 29:59Esther Perel?

  So, of course, it's a mix and match, you know? But what makes thriving relationships is not only feelings. It's a mix of feelings, actions, beliefs, touches, physicality. It's a, it's a more all-encompassing thing. A beautiful love story can be just about feelings. And you can love more people than those that you can make a life with. That doesn't mean you make a life with people you don't love, but it means that there is a whole other set of ingredients.

• 30:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:38Esther Perel?

  That enter into the making of a life, which is the creation of a world. It's a little different.

• 30:47Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one on dating and marriage and love and sex and relationships and all the juicy parts of life, the things that are our greatest teachers. Relationships, in my mind, teach us the most about ourselves, teach us the most about how we handle ourselves in the world, and teach us the most about where we are in our lives. And if you're not happy in your life, you get to look at the most important relationship, which is the one with yourself. What are you doing? Are you honoring your word? Are you living in integrity? Are you following the thing that lights you up the most? Or are you beating yourself up? Are you saying negative things to yourself?

• 31:29Lewis Howes?

  And how is that reflected in the relationships of your life? Ooh, so juicy. I know, I love this. If you enjoyed this one, make sure to share with your friends, LewisHowes.com/637. And let me know your favorite part of this episode. Tag the people who you heard from today on Instagram or Twitter, and give them a shout out as well. My friends, if this is your first time here, again, make sure to subscribe to the podcast because we have powerful episodes coming every single Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and we have some juicy ones coming up, my friends. Yes, indeed. Get ready. Big things are happening at the School of Greatness, and I can't wait to share all of these insights with you as I'm learning them myself as well.

• 32:14Lewis Howes?

  Again, LewisHowes.com/637 for all the show notes and information. And as Henry Ford said it, "Coming together is a beginning. Keeping together is progress. Working together is success." Where are you at in your relationships right now? Are you starting them? Are you keeping them? And are you working towards a greater future? I love you guys so very much, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.