632 Jay Williams: Life is Not an Accident

“WHAT HAPPEN IF I WERE TO LIVE MY LIFE WITH NO EXCUSE?” When I was injured as a pro athlete I felt I had really lost myself. I felt like my identity was stripped away from me. I began comparing myself to my past -- to what I could have been. I doubted my entire future. Chances are you’ve been through something similar. Maybe it was the loss of a job. Maybe you lost someone you depended on emotionally. I eventually came to a realization. I could continue down this self destructive path, feeling like a helpless victim in a cruel world, or I could take my destiny into my own hands. In the end, I decided to have faith that maybe this happened for a greater cause. I felt like maybe I was meant for something else. Something more important. On this episode of The School of Greatness, I had the chance to sit down with someone who knows a lot about having to reinvent themselves: Jay Williams. If you aren’t familiar with Jay Williams, he’s a former NBA pro. He came from a home that was surrounded by abusive relationships. When he was drafted at a young age, he didn’t know how to handle the fame and money. His ego got in the way, and he ended up in a motorcycle accident and put his career on hold. After a long recovery and massive amounts of physical therapy, he wound up back on the court only to suffer from injuries again. And again. He came to the same cross road: either stay a victim and fall into a life of extreme hardship or take it as a sign he was meant for something else. Today, Jay Williams is a television personality, motivational speaker, and successful businessman. He says that his life, the parts that he values the most, started after his accident. Hear all about his inspirational journey and why it's worth it to believe life happens for a reason, on Episode 632. Some Questions I Ask: What would make this the most powerful interview you’ve ever done? (5:40) What’s your biggest vulnerability? (7:24) Is there anything you’re still suppressing? (12:38) How did your father handle working for you? (16:04) What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned from your father? (18:47) You felt like there was less of a team in the pro league? (24:04) Did you get back on the court for a little bit? (29:12) What was it like when everyone felt entitled to your money? (48:32) Why couldn’t you have a conversation with your fiance about everything that was going on? (56:09) Have you ever tried to facilitate communication between your parents? (1:01:28) In This Episode You Will Learn: The beginnings of his family (6:23) The one lesson Jay would teach his future child (11:11) The abuse he witnessed as a child (14:53) His relationship with his father today (16:55) Jay’s motorcycle accident (21:28) How the people around him influenced his change (27:28) What an advisory board is (40:07) Why some people can’t escape their past identities (48:56) How he was able to successfully shift his career (52:10) What he wishes his dad would say to him that he hasn’t (58:32) How he is going to manage his busy schedule and his family life (1:04:08) Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 632 with Jay Williams.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  Oprah Winfrey said, "Turn your wounds into your wisdom." And today, we've got the incredible Jay Williams on, and I wanted to ask you guys a question. Have you ever had an accident in your life that seemed like a horrible accident at the time? Or something that was tragic at the time, but two years later, five years later, 10 years later, you look back and you realize, wow, some of the greatest things in my life wouldn't have happened had that accident not happened. I know I've had that in my personal life where I got injured playing professional football. Was on my sister's couch for about a year and a half recovering from surgery.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  And I was devastated during that time, but the lessons I learned, the person I became, the people I met, the skills that I mastered during that downtime of about a year and a half, got me to the place I'm at today, and I would not be here today without that accident, without that injury. And I'm so grateful for it now, looking back. And that's what we get to look at in our own life. What are those challenges, those adversities that we go through that seem horrific in the moment, but really are the cornerstone and foundation of our greatness?

• 1:50Lewis Howes?

  And when we can start to look at the tragedies as opportunities to grow, to learn into our fullest potential, that's where the beauty of life comes from. And today, we've got Jay Williams, who's going to share more about this process with us and share some incredible insights. And he's a multi-talented tele- Television personality, motivational speaker and businessman. He's a former basketball player and current college basketball analyst. And he played college basketball at Duke University and professionally with the Chicago Bulls in the NBA. And he's also considered one of the most prolific college basketball players of all time. And he was the second pick in the 2002 NBA draft.

• 2:32Lewis Howes?

  However, a motorcycle accident in 2003 pivoted his promising NBA career and is now an ESPN college basketball analyst and the author of the book, Life is Not an Accident. And in today's interview, we talk about what happens to you spiritually when you hit rock bottom, how to see your challenges in a completely new perspective, also why it's so valuable to create a personal advisory board. And this is something I've been hearing a lot lately, something I did a while back and now I'm going all in on. So be sure to tune into that part about building a personal advisory board and also what most people don't understand about how fame affects your relationships. That and so much more on this interview.

• 3:16Lewis Howes?

  Before we dive in, shout out to the fan of the week. This is from Lisa, who left a review over on iTunes and says, "This podcast is the lifeblood of my day, morning, noon, or night. I keep having aha moments and connect with central themes that present themselves in our personal and professional life. Louis has such an eloquent way of interviewing some of the most inspiring guests. Thanks for continuing to tackle many inner and outer issues, obstacles, and how to find the grit to persevere and find greatness." Lisa, appreciate that review. Thank you so much. You are the fan of the week. Lisa Renee is her last name. So thank you again for that. And again, if you guys haven't left a review yet, I'd love to hear how the podcast has

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  impacted your life. Head over to the podcast app on your phone or on iTunes. Just type in the School of Greatness and you can leave a review right there. All right, guys, I'm pumped for this one again. Your life is not an accident. It's only setting you up for the real lessons you need to learn and the person you need to become. Let me introduce to you the one and only Jay Williams.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  What would make this the most powerful interview you've ever done?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Ah, what would make this? I don't know, I've um, I've sat with Oprah.

• 4:35Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  She's uh-

• 4:36Lewis Howes?

  It's pretty big.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  She shifts things internally in your body. I feel I'm at this different stage in my life. I am thirty-six years old. Who knows where time has flown?

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy, right? I just turned thirty-five last couple of weeks, couple of weeks ago.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Congrats.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  And it makes me think like, oh, thirty-five, I'm almost forty, you know, it's getting closer.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Do you have to think about what? I, I sometimes forget what age I am. I'm like, am I thirty-six? Or am I thirty-five?

• 5:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I feel like I'm twenty-four.

• 5:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  And uh, it's just, it's different, man. Like I'm getting married on May third, which is so cool. Even though a lot of my friends don't advise marriage, which is interesting. But I, I watch and I kind of analyze where they are in their lives and where I am in my life. I have a child on the way, knock on wood, that everything's still okay.

• 5:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  So he or she is due October fifth.

• 5:30Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  I'm in this stage of my life where I'm vulnerable. I heard this, this great quote that really kind of changed my gear, I think about four years ago, where there are two type of leaders in life. And you know, one leader is seen through an authoritative, like authoritative figure, right? Like he has a position of power. If that's politics, whatever it may be, and that's the way he leads. And then there are other leaders who lead through inspiration, right? And for me, I found one of the best ways for me to truly

• 6:01Speaker 01

  kind of leverage my purpose is just by being vulnerable and talking about my journey and what I've gone through and where I am. And the fact that I still have a lot of work to do, but I thrive to be better. And that's the way I live my life.

• 6:15Lewis Howes?

  What's your biggest vulnerability right now?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  I have no way to protect my family. And I've never thought this way before, but the last five months have been pretty crazy for me. I've been up in Bristol every Monday and Tuesday working and ESPN is located up there. And then I took on this project, I did a- Co-production deal with LeBron and YouTube Red where I went into a high school in Newark, New Jersey, a town that's about 30 minutes away from where I was born and raised. And I worked with the basketball team. So it's called Best Shot. And it's really, really cool because all these kids come from different backgrounds and some of these kids don't have dads and, you know, some of these kids, their mothers are addicted to different drugs and they're just trying to find a way out.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  And using the vehicle of basketball to give them different looks at life, right? So if it's, hey, you don't say the N-word, you talk like this and here's why you don't say it, or you pull your pants up and you look presentable because you are going to areas outside of Newark, New Jersey, or the way I talk is not considered Uncle Tom or Caucasian, it's considered education. So like influencing more in that direction. I didn't know how challenging that was gonna be and how time consuming that was gonna be. So Monday and Tuesday, I remember still, then Wednesday and Thursday, I come home early Wednesday morning, Wednesday and Thursday, I'm working with these kids from Best Shot. And then Friday I leave and I go to college basketball game day, which I get to my location

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Friday, Saturday I work all day and then Sunday I come home and then- For the week. Exactly. Yeah, I've been gone for the week and then my future wife is looking at me like, hey, that's, that's cool, but I watch you give everybody else energy on TV and I watch these kids, I'm deserving of anybody of your energy as well. So then how do you give her energy and how do you do things for her? Cause she gets one day a week. Oof. Thank you so much Nikki Bonacorsi, I love you for being patient with me. And then next week it was repeat. The next week it was repeat. So- And month after month. Month after month. And then, you know, we find out January that she's pregnant and, you know, about a month and a half later, you know, and that's right before March Madness, she takes a really bad fall. She was coming, got this brownstone and she was coming down

• 8:25Speaker 01

  these stairs and she got these really nice slippers from Morocco because she's Lebanese and she was excited about her trip and, you know, she's coming down the stairs and she slipped because there was a wood bottom on the shoe and we have wood floors and just slipped and fell on her back and fell all the way down the stairs. Oof. And called me and was just- You know, hysterical, just really sad, like crying and she was, you know, she hasn't had a lot of injuries, but she's a really tough cookie. And she was worried about the baby and I felt so helpless. You know, I'm two and a half hours away and I'm like, I'm coming home. And she's like, don't come home. I'm like, do you need to see your doctor? And it was the first time I've ever felt that gut wrenching helpless feeling. That I have my wife that I would do anything for, I would give my life for.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  And I have my unborn child, which I hope is okay. How do I protect them? I can't protect them. I can try, I can try. But she still needs to go out into the world and she has a job and she's gonna do things. And, you know, I have to put my faith in something way bigger than myself. And just pray and hope that everything's gonna be okay. So I think that's, that's the challenge as I move forward in this next phase of my life.

• 9:34Lewis Howes?

  Can only imagine being a father and just knowing your kids out there doing something and you can't do anything about it.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you know, my mom always said this to me, you'll never know until you have one.

• 9:43Lewis Howes?

  Right. And now you know, you're like.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  I haven't even had one yet. I'm like, oh my goodness. But yeah, I guess that I have a little bit more angst than I, than I've had before.

• 9:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Cause I have to worry about more than just me.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  But it's also a beautiful experience, right?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And it's cool though. It's a feeling that I embrace. Because it's a feeling of parenthood.

• 10:02Lewis Howes?

  If there's only one lesson that you could teach your child, soon to be child. And you can only teach them one lesson, what would that lesson be, do you think?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  I think I would work on being consciously aware. Like, I don't know if that's a lesson that I can just teach. I think that's more by my actions. And it's more by having conversations with him about things that him or she sees in the world. And about why people do the things that they do. And trying to help he or she understand that people make mistakes.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  But I truly believe that the people, there are some people who make mistakes and then put their head down and act like the mistake never happened. I guess a good analogy, there are certain people in life that drive in the dark without their headlights on. And it's a choice. They choose to drive in the dark without their headlights on because everybody has the ability to turn your headlights on. You can see what's in front of you if you choose to see. But I know so many people that come from the perspective of, well, that happened and I gotta get over it. So I keep myself busy and I don't take time to assess what currently just happened and how do I grow from that? It's kind of like, let me just suppress it, push it into the back burner, move on. And I think that would be the best trait.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  I think I learned that when I was around 30 years old, when I had to write my book. And it forced me to actually think through why I did things. Because I went through a series of steps to get to where I'm at now.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Is there anything you're still suppressing?

• 11:30Speaker 01

  I think at times.

• 11:31Lewis Howes?

  Or haven't fully?

• 11:32Speaker 01

  You know, look, like I said, I'm a work in progress.

• 11:34Lewis Howes?

  You're not perfect, Jay?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Of course not. I still have issues with my father. You know, it was, it was an adjustment for me. You know, we were talking about Scooter before and every relationship has its own issues. But one of the things I've always appreciated about Irv and about Scott is that they've always had conversations about finances and conversations about worldly things. Now, I am very much appreciative of my father. My father paid for me to go to a private school. He took a train every morning, 5:00 AM from New Jersey to New York, worked countless hours, had to travel, worked for Amex for 20 years and then AT&T for 10 plus. But we never had those types of conversations.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  And so when I got drafted and all of a sudden somebody says, here's several million dollars, we've never had any of that type of training as a family unit. We never even learned that language, how to communicate to each other with money.

• 12:37Lewis Howes?

  Well, that's probably 99% of people too.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:39Lewis Howes?

  And almost every athlete, probably.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Yes, 100%. And it's also funny because from a business perspective. All of a sudden, you get all these accolades and you get this attention. And then a plethora of people just try to come into your life because they want to be associated with you business-wise. And it was hard to decipher at that juncture when you're 19. Well, who wants to be in business for what I have? Or who wants to be in business with me, with Jason? So there was an emotional connection that I brought into, that we all brought into the equation. So then the conversation didn't become, hey, who is the most fiscally conservative? Who's going to get the best deals? Who has the best negotiation power or leverage? It became, who do we feel most comfortable with?

• 13:24Speaker 01

  And it was, I'm not saying it didn't work out, but those are the little things that when I'm around some of my other friends that grew up in that, you start to realize how they go about negotiating or how they make some of their different business decisions. And for us, my dad was the CEO of my company. So my dad had beaten up my mom growing up. There were some drinking issues. Did you witness this or was it just? Yeah, multiple times, multiple times. I really couldn't do anything about it, even though I tried. But obviously, the connection between my mother and I became exponentially different and more in tune with each other. Yeah, you could sense her energy more. 100%. And I could sense her being uneasy or I can sense when she would get frustrated and she

• 14:05Speaker 01

  would lack the language to communicate to my father about what she was feeling like. And then I would see how my dad would respond to that lack of language and just watch all these different emotional triggers that kicked off. So for me, it was this power play between him and I because he was the alpha male. But yet, think about that role reversal. So at 19, I get all this money and all of a sudden, my parents are the CEO and the CMO of my company. They're working for you now. They're working for me. I'm the chairman. So my dad's been dictating to me from an alpha male perspective about what I'm supposed to do my entire life, but now all of a sudden, the power's in my hand, right?

• 14:49Speaker 01

  So I'm like, I don't want to do that or I want to do this.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  And I think that- How did he handle that? It was an arduous task. We'll leave it at that. Yeah. Because we, my father had way more experience than I did. And there were certain things where I delegated that responsibility to him. At the same time, I'm nineteen, twenty years old. I'm, I'm a kid. You don't know, yeah. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just, I'm trying to navigate this space. Trying to play ball to the best of your ability. You're trying to just live your life. Yeah, and you know, the lifestyle, you get caught into it. You know, I had a girlfriend, but I went to an all-boys Catholic high school. Okay, my varsity jacket had, everybody had to get a different nickname on their varsity jacket. Mine said J-Man because I allowed my mom to give me my own nickname. Are you kidding me? So I come from that to all of a sudden the real world where I'm getting attention and I have status and I have money.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  That's difficult for anybody to navigate, even if you're in your thirties, forties, yet alone when you're nineteen, twenty. Right, right, exactly. So that forced us to bunt heads a lot. Yeah, yeah. So you're still working on the relationship with your father today? You feel like you haven't fully let it go or moved past it? I feel like I've let it go, but it never really goes. It always stays and it's, it's my job psychologically to push through it. Yeah. So I, I work on that. Yeah. Um, I'm aware of that. I think having a baby has created another avenue for my father and I to communicate differently. Mm-hmm. So now I can ask him a lot more questions about, well, when you were having me or, you know, how many times did you guys see the doctor with mom?

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Or did you, did you go through the route that you took multiple times to the hospital? I can ask those type of questions, which allows the dialogue to be different. So we don't focus so much on the past. We try to focus more so on the present and the future, which has been extremely rewarding. That's great. For me. Yeah. It's been rewarding. That's great. Cause it's my dad again. You know, I'm getting my dad, I'm not getting my business partner. He can mentor you as a father. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And a soon-to-be grandfather. Yeah, and there's, there's, um, there's nothing at stake. Our relationship has found a new dimension, which is, it's different because I think I've spent a lot of time around women growing up. Hmm. And now to spend more time with my dad, I'm like, oh, okay, like-

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Here's how guys see things. So I know how I see things. But here's how my father sees things. And my father is a little bit more old school. Not that he's not aware, he just, he's old school. You know, we do disagree on one thing, though, and it really drives me crazy. I hate when people say, I am who I am. Like, this is who I am. Like, no, you choose to be this way. You can evolve and grow and. You could, or you can choose to stay exactly the same and be limited in your perspective. So my dad still will use that line, like, you know, I've been putting in my time, this is who I am. But he's a, he's a good man at heart. He just, you know, he has flaws and we all do. Yeah. What's the biggest lesson you've learned from him? You know, when I got hurt, we were forced to go to a therapy session because obviously I was a little bit lost.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  And I had associated so much of my identity with what I do, which is a common theme for people. It's the first question I see so many people ask when involving in a conversation. It's like, oh, what do you do? And it's like that, you know, you take that for who you are. And so I'm on this identity crisis, where I'm on this journey trying to find out who I am without this sport. And a lot of pent up frustration about things that had occurred in the past, about things that had happened financially between my father and I. And it was the first time that I tried to address it. And I haven't always been the most articulate person when it comes to my emotions. I think that just started over the last six or seven years of my life.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  So I was trying and I was fighting through it. And it was the first time I ever heard my father own his mistakes. Wow. Now, I don't know if he's done that to my mother, which is completely different conversation. But it was, he did it with me. And I think hearing him do that was the first time that

• 18:48Speaker 01

  I started myself down the road of owning my mistakes. Wow. It's funny, I always give a lot of basketball analogies because it's easier for me to understand. It's like, you know, my freshman year in college, I was playing for Coach K at Duke and I had never played the point guard position. And he used to always rip me in tape sessions where he would say, "You stick to screens like Velcro." Like seriously, refuse to be screened, refuse to be screened. And every day in my freshman year, I'd be like, "I didn't see the screen coming, my man didn't call out screen." Or, "He stuck his leg out." Excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse. My sophomore year, it finally clicked for me, I was like, "Why am I giving excuses? Oh, that's my way of copping out. That's my way of saying, 'Oh, I couldn't do it or I couldn't make it.'"

• 19:33Speaker 01

  What happens if I were to live my life with no excuses? Okay. I think I had that on the basketball court. Now, that didn't necessarily translate to my life. But when my dad had said that, I was like, "Oh, okay." So, like my accident, like, "That's my fault." Like, "That's not because I got, you know, I was friends or I felt alone or my dynamic between my mother and my father and myself changed." Or, "The lifestyle, that's on me." And I think that was the first time I had a real moment with myself. I never had a real, real moment where I sat with myself and I reflected on

• 20:12Speaker 01

  the series of events that led me to this point in my life when I was 21 years old. And it was a powerful moment.

• 20:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, wow. And for those that don't know, you were in a motorcycle accident when you didn't have a license, is that right? A motorcycle license and was it your bike you bought it or was it a friend's bike or what was the?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  It was my ego's bike.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  It was me having, me having money in my pocket and me trying to find some way to express my manhood. It was a black and red Yamaha R6 and

• 20:44Lewis Howes?

  Fast, huh?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, very fitting too, same colors of the Bulls. And it was funny, it almost, it correlated with the way I played, right? Like, I'm, I'm 6'2", I mean, you're legit.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  6'4?

• 20:55Speaker 01

  6'4, yeah, you're legit.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  It's a bad habit. I can't help it, man. Like, I walk in a room, I look at someone, I'm like, mm-hmm. Because I'm used to being in a world where everybody's so much taller than you. Yeah, yeah. But like 6'2", like amongst common people, it's pretty, it's pretty tall. It's pretty good, right? I love how you say that in a kind of a way. It's pretty decent. Hey, but you have the back problems the taller you get. Very true. The lower back, you know, it's harder to stay strong. Very true. Way to build me up. Way to build me up. For me, the bike was like, okay, that was me as a player. I'm low to the ground, I'm fast. I was able to take corners or angles differently than players who were taller than me because of my height and because of my athleticism. So riding a bike was, it was that, and also gave me an adrenaline rush, you know? When you're 20 years old,

• 21:41Speaker 01

  I didn't really know how to properly prioritize my time. I was, I had basketball practice and then I had free time. And, you know, at the time, business-wise, you're really not making any investments. It's my first year. So you're just letting that accumulate and your parents are running the business. So all that free time led me to things that I shouldn't have been doing. If that's jumping on a plane with a friend and going to Vegas and, and partying because you could. Or cheating on your girlfriend because you're not used to getting attention from people that have status. Or even if it was just little white lies that you would tell because you didn't feel the need to tell people the truth. And also, I felt really alone because

• 22:25Speaker 01

  the dynamic I came from, from in college was so team-oriented. It was so family-driven. Whereas I got to the league, it was everybody- More individualized, right? Yeah, and everybody had their own family. So after practice, nobody's really hanging out. People go back to their family. You have people vying for contracts. Around the same age range, so, you know, people would kind of sabotage you sometimes on the court. Really? Oh, yeah. It was, it was a different world for me that I wasn't used to. It wasn't like all for one, one for all, feeling like we're all in this together. Sacrifice for the team. You don't see that today. I mean, and I don't know the inner workings of this, but prime example, San Antonio Spurs, right? Yeah. They've always been deemed as the family oriented organization within the league. But look at it right now.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So Kawhi Leonard, you have a person that kind of takes on, and I don't know the whole story, but takes on this role of, I need to do what's good for me first. That's a trickle down effect. Look how that affects a team and the storylines that follows that narrative. And you start seeing teammates that might say something negative about Kawhi. It just, the dynamic changes. So if you have like a multitude of people on one team like that, or you have people that are naturally defiant, or don't go according to team rules. Right. It leads into itself. So my bike was a way for me to get away from all that. It was like my, whoo, I can't figure this out. I just rather ride. And I had driven bikes before,

• 23:52Speaker 01

  but it wasn't about me having my license or me riding bikes. It was about, I can do this because I can do this. Like ego is your worst enemy, right? That led me to the day where I got into a horrific accident. I was leaving my agent's house on my bike. I had to put the bike in neutral. I was cruising fine. I revved it the first time. I was in a desolate area. Don't ask me why I was revving my engine, but for some reason I just got a new muffler and. It's cool. It's the ego. It's masculine. It's that. D. All the above. Right? And rev it the first time. Second time I rev it louder than the second, and then the first. Third time I tried to rev it louder than the second. In the middle of it, the bike goes click click. Next thing you know, I'm falling back because the bike has popped the wheelie. That old saying, let go, let

• 24:34Speaker 01

  God. I wish I would have listened to that in that particular moment, but ego, again, it was my bike. I just bought this bike. I want to be able to control my destiny. I don't want to prove people correct about all the people that told me the negative aspects of having a bike. So as my momentum is throwing me back, I'm trying to grab onto the handlebars to try to lean forward. As I'm doing that, my momentum is pulling the throttle back even more. The bottom wheel spins out. Next thing you know, I look up as my eyesight goes from bottom up, I see the speedometer. I'm going like 70 miles per hour, and I see utility pull, and I try to turn the bike at the last second and.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Just clipped the whole left side of my body. End up with my chest on the pavement as if I'm laying on my stomach. And my legs are on top of each other as if I'm laying on my side. On the grassy knoll area between the curb and the sidewalk. I try to tell people all the time, that was the day my life started. That was the day. I started the journey of who I am to this point.

• 25:35Lewis Howes?

  It made you slow down. It made you be aware and think about your life.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  It took me through depression. It took me through anger. It took me through addiction to OxyContin because I had to. I've had 13 plus surgeries. I still have drop foot to this day. It took me through a psychological awakening. When you hit bottom and even though you're not alone, you. You surround yourself with people that keep you exactly where you want to be. Does that make sense?

• 26:08Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  So.

• 26:10Lewis Howes?

  You can't, you can choose to surround yourself with people like that.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:13Lewis Howes?

  Or you can choose what you've talked about is having an advisory board of mentors to lift you out of that, which is what you eventually did, right?

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:22Lewis Howes?

  So you stayed with the, the bottom of the barrel type of thinking individuals.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  For, for a while.

• 26:28Lewis Howes?

  Drug dealers, the whatever, who kept you down there, but then you made a decision to get out of it, right?

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Eventually I, I pulled myself out of it.

• 26:35Lewis Howes?

  After a couple of suicide attempts and depression and.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Two, yeah. I mean, I think one of the most humble things that ever happened is, you know, it's not drop foot. It's not the fact that I dislocated my knee or that my, my leg will forever be smaller than my right leg. It's the fact that I kind of dislocated my pelvis and not being able to know if I would be ever able to be erect again and to have a family because of those issues. Like that was the thing, it was really daunting and that, that would send me into a dark spiral, right? And that in conjunction with the fact that I had a recognizable face. And when I was trying to come back. As an athlete, people are used to looking at you with this look of awe, right?

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Like, oh, you're able to, I'm sure you meet somebody and like, I want to accomplish what Lewis Howes has been able to accomplish. Like, that look, it's rewarding, it's fulfilling, it makes you push harder to be better at what you do. And how that look for me changed to a look of sorrow, a look of pity. Will this guy ever be able to come back? And I was also judged for the player I was before, not for the player I was becoming. So to live with that daunting task of being reminded of who I was every single day, it kept me in the past with who I was. It didn't allow me to move forward and think about who I wanted to be now in this current state. So after, you know, trying to come back and play, it didn't really work out with the Nets. I'm like 25 now, I've been going through physical therapy for two and a half, three years.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  Did you get back on the court for a little bit?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did. I was able to get back on the court. In the league, I played for the Nets for a short stint, then I got cut. And then I went down to the D-League. Uh, well, actually, I got cut, I was gonna try to go overseas and play. Was working out by myself, dislocated my right ankle, my healthy leg. Uh, had to go back down to Durham to do more physical therapy. And then went to the D-League, played there, played one game, almost had a triple double. Pulled my hamstring off my left leg, popped off the bone. Yeah, it gets, it gets so good.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  It just.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  It's great. It just keeps going deeper and deeper and deeper, right?

• 28:36Lewis Howes?

  The game didn't want you to play.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  No, it did not. Somebody was saying, signs, pay attention to me.

• 28:41Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  And then I went back to North Carolina to do more physical therapy. And I got a call from my teammate that my coach, Dennis Johnson, that played for the Boston Celtics, played with Larry Bird and Robert Parish, who's an iconic figure for the Celtics, was my head coach. And he had prayed with me in the hospital. Not really big into prayer at that particular time, but, you know, I'd been in hospital so much, he's like, you know, I want you to know that you have such a bigger purpose and you're gonna come back and you're gonna play this game way better than you've ever played before.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  And we have somebody that kind of leaves that that mark on you that he still believed in me. It filled my tank to fight more to continue to play. And then when I came home, I got a call from a teammate that he was playing one on one. It's about a week and a half later after I've been home. And he passed away from a heart attack. And I was distraught. I was like, man, this guy that just prayed with me a week, a week prior.

• 29:38Lewis Howes?

  Seemed healthy.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Seemed great, was okay. His son was always around. And DJ just passed away from a heart attack. And I remember thinking for the first time in my life, like, what? What, what am I doing? That could have been me four and a half, five years ago. Like, why am I chasing this ghost from my past? Because I feel the need, is it the money? That I feel like I want to be able to get back? Is it the the fame or the attention? Because I never had that and I I liked it? Was it all the things I could do for my family? Was it all for my ego? Did I truly love the game anymore? And the answer to that last question was no. I didn't, I didn't love the game. Because I couldn't play the game the way I saw the game.

• 30:24Lewis Howes?

  In your mind, you knew you wanted to make a move, but you couldn't do it.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  It's debilitating, man.

• 30:28Lewis Howes?

  It's the worst. It's like me playing last weekend against the old guys. And me fumbling the ball to the lane when I'm like, I used to be able to do this so well.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And for me, I was like, you know what? I think I'm gonna start trying to work on me. Now, I still was taking OxyContin every single day because I had nerve regeneration. I dislocated my nerve.

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  And pain.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and nerve regeneration is like childbirth. It feels like somebody stabbing you every single day. And it could last for a minute or it could last for five hours. So, you know, I still had a journey to fight that. But it was the first time I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to start the process of letting basketball go.

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow, it's hard.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  And start trying to figure out. Like who, who Jason Williams is.

• 31:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow, it's amazing. The more I hear about, from you, and the more I realize we have a lot of things in in common with domestic violence, things like that from our fathers and also losing our identities. I played professional football for a little bit, about a season and a half, got injured and I had to retire because I was in a cast recovering for six months. And for me, it was so hard to let it go. You know, for years afterwards, I kept thinking about trying to come back, but I knew I wouldn't be able to play at the highest level. And so I didn't want to play at all if I had to play, you know, a level below. But every year I'd watch the NFL and I'd see like, I practiced with that guy, played against that guy. Like I see them growing, I see how much they're making. And I know you talked about this as well. Seeing guys get hundred million dollar contracts, you know, five, 10 years after you're done.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  And it's hard to let it go, I think, sometimes. That identity that I used to be this basketball player or this football player, and now I'm no longer.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  And honestly, I don't know if you did this, but I guess having that year with that lifestyle, I always found myself in conflicting moments, right? Throughout that journey. If it was seeing a player kiss his wife and kiss his kids and then jump on a plane. And then we party until four o'clock in the morning.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  And he's cheating on his wife.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  And he's cheating on his wife and he's bringing, you know, girls home to his hotel and then we play in the game. And then the next night we go to Toronto and the same thing happens again. And then we get off the plane and he kisses his wife and his kids like it never happened. And I'm like, oh, man, like this is, this is real. You almost start seeing how you can live in false realities, right? Like your perception is warped across the board because you have a lot of people on your team that tell you yes. And people are afraid to tell you no because your morals inevitably, they get pushed. So I think for me, I was, I was really angry too because I was like, wait, I didn't cheat on my wife.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Or I always try to show up to practice early or every charity event, I try to be there or, you know, the kids, there were kids that played drums outside my apartment every morning in Chicago and it was freezing. And I would get per diem, like what can I do with all this per diem money? Like I'm already making great money. I would go to the kids and see their faces, right? Like I've done all these different things, you know, why me? I'll never forget this, man. This is like. Three or four years after my accident and I'm in New York City. And I'd just kind of done my second attempt at suicide. I'd taken a lot of OxyContin pills and I drank a lot. And I was finally starting this area where I was starting to develop my board after I woke up, which I didn't think I deserved.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  Personal advisory board.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  My personal advisory board. Cause I started thinking like, every powerful company has a board. And it's the board's job, it'll meet quarterly. And every CEO I know, his palms are always sweaty. He's always nervous with the prep that goes into this. Because that board's gonna evaluate you the first quarter. And it's their job to take you through where the company was, where the company currently is, and where the company is going to go. And if you're the guy steering that ship, or the woman steering that ship, you're responsible and we wanna see you own up to that. So I was like, why am I not valuing myself like a company? How can I surround myself with different people in different verticals that can help me be better? And my dad really confirmed it. My dad was like, you know what? I used to hear you always talk about, why me, why me? And he was like, why not you?

• 34:24Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Maybe your shoulders are broad enough to carry this weight. And it was the first time I've ever heard somebody say that. And it just, it just changed me. Now, I still had a lot of work to do, but I started to attack the game with a different blueprint. Because now, things that went wrong, I felt like there was purpose in them going wrong. Or things that didn't go my way, I had to find a silver lining in why they didn't go my way. Maybe that wasn't meant to be part of my path. And it was one of the most empowering things I've ever heard or done. Because I just use everything that happens in my life as fuel for where I'm going, instead of being angry or holding resentment for what didn't occur.

• 35:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think we have a choice of, things happened to us, for us, whatever we wanna look at it. And if we hold on to it as a victim, then we're always gonna be held back. But if we look at it, like you said, like life is no accidents. It's a purpose. Then something greater can come from it, which is what you've been able to do. You've been able to inspire so many people through your journey now, and also evolve as a human being, as a man and a human being. And I think it's been a beautiful thing to watch for the last, you know, 15 years, I guess, since that accident, right?

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's required me to...

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Really dig deep within myself, which is uh, it's always a work in progress, but it's rewarding.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's very rewarding.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  There's power in telling your truth.

• 35:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, absolutely.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  And also recognizing that your truth is based upon your experiences, but that doesn't mean that Jay Williams's truth is Lewis Howes' truth.

• 35:57Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  But I love finding that common ground. It's funny because I, you know, my job on TV is to debate. You get a chance to see guys like Stephen A. Smith debate.

• 36:07Lewis Howes?

  He's hilarious.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 36:09Lewis Howes?

  So opinionated.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  So flamboyant sometimes with his delivery.

• 36:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  And it's funny because I would never say somebody's wrong. Like, I would never be like, you're wrong. Like, your truth is your truth. Now, if you're willing to find middle ground and maybe let your truth evolve, that's different, right? So for me, I also feel like when I have time to have conversations with people, you know, obviously now I'm talking because you're asking me to talk, but I don't usually do a lot of the talking.

• 36:39Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  I usually like to ask questions because I feel like I can learn something from everybody, man. Like, I watched a lot of your stuff and seen things you've done with Scott, seen things you've done on Ellen, seen things you've done with a lot of other people. And I always feel like I walk away learning something about myself from other people's experiences that I can incorporate into my life. And so I think

• 37:02Speaker 01

  venturing into life with that kind of vision is way different than I used to be before because I used to be myopic. I used to just focus on what Jason had to focus on, and that was it.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  And now that web has expanded.

• 37:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, one of the reasons I love this podcast or just having a platform in general is I get the opportunity to ask questions. Because for me, I feel like if I'm saying anything, speaking, I'm not learning. And I want to grow into the best version of myself and get better every single day. And I know I need to dig deeper into the right questions for different people. And that's how I continue to grow. But if I have you on this show and I'm talking the whole time, I'm not learning a thing. You know what I mean?

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hear you.

• 37:39Lewis Howes?

  So I'm glad you have that same perspective.

• 37:48Lewis Howes?

  I want to go back into advisory board because this is the second time it's come up in the last month for me that another really successful guest I had on his name's Ed Mylett, asked him a question. We were having sushi one day and I asked him a question. I said, you know, if you're my age again, a little bit older than me now, I go, you know, what would you really focus on to get to the next level? I'm always asking guys or girls who are older and more experienced and wiser, what they would do if they were me or in my position. You know, what's the one thing I could do to get better? He said, get a personal advisory board. And so you're the second person to bring this up in the last month. It's just kind of come to the surface. And it's funny, in my first book, I write about having a personal advisory board when I was 25, going through transition.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  When I got injured, I found a personal advisory board and that's really what helped me get to the next level. I kind of lost having that. I think because the podcast, I have so many mentors, you know, I can kind of call on anyone at any time and be like, hey, can you give me feedback? But I really believe that having a group of three to five people that have done things that you want to do, who've gone through similar experiences and who are just older and wiser, to have them in your corner is really important. But to create almost like a formal agreement, doesn't have to be too formal, but just like an arrangement between each other, like, hey, I would love to be able to call on you once a quarter and ask for feedback on how I can improve. And I think that's a good lesson. I'm glad you reminded me of this because it's something I wanted to get back into. It's really having

• 39:18Lewis Howes?

  like five to six core people in my corner that I can call on, whether it be for a year or two year period, but just a board. And people could come and go, but always having that kind of core group of people that you're inspired by. Do you still have that now?

• 39:33Speaker 01

  I do. I have, I have multiple boards, which is really cool.

• 39:38Lewis Howes?

  For like personal life or business?

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Well, I have a business board. I'm slowly developing a father board. I have like one or two guys that I really just have learned to appreciate with their patience in which they have with their kids and how they push their kids to think. Lewis, you just did something that I don't see a lot of people do. Like in our jobs. We're constantly interacting with people. And I think my fiance finally sees this after two and a year, two and a half years of being together. Is that sometimes I'm mentally drained because like this takes a lot out of somebody. A lot. Like I'm, I'm emotionally, I'm with you. To be present for an hour. Yeah. And we're on this journey.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  And then to walk away and if I was walking down the street and somebody say, oh, hey, J I mirror blah, blah. Like I like to give people my attention because I also have been pushed to the side by people when I was growing up. And I recognize how powerful that is, but. It's a lot of energy. It does. So, you know, one of the things that I've recognized that I don't see a lot of people do that you just said. While you were talking about this is I don't find a lot of people are vulnerable enough to ask for help. And I've also found that the more vulnerable I am with these people on my board. The more willing they are to be 100% all in. Like I have a guy on my board named Charlie Grantham and he ran the players union.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  When it first kind of got established before Billy Hunter took over and. This year's been a crazy year for me, right? I've been, I just told you about my schedule, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday with the wife and. Like, you know, we have calls and sometimes with my travel schedule, I can't make the call. He will not let me not speak with him per week. Wow. He will not let it happen. Once a week, we talk. He will not let it happen. He will call me and I'm like Charlie, I'm on the plane, can't pick up. And then, you know, obviously you ever land after a three hour plane ride. You have 30 emails in the inbox and I have to get something to work and I have another call I need to do for radio. And you just get lost in your day and you're like, I should have called Charlie. And then sure enough, when I think that he's like, hey, I'm open for a call, can you call?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  And so I have people who are also relentless in their approach to connect with me, which I appreciate. And I have people that I have to be relentless to with as well, right? So I see that, but it holds me to a standard higher than what I hold myself to. At that given time, when I first started my board and I like having high standards. Yeah. You're an athlete, you train, you know. I don't know any other way to be. And we always get put in these compromising positions where you can compromise yourself at times, but. Knowing that I'm able to slow down the matrix of life, you know, like it's like being a point guard. My freshman year, the game was happening at 8,000 miles per hour. Right? Because I wasn't flexing that muscle to think about. Time and situation, what is Coach K saying? Where's Mike Dunleavy?

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Is Shane Battier in the right position on the floor? Carlos Boozer hasn't gotten to touch the pass two possessions. Mike just went off for 15 points in a row. We should probably run a play to get Mike the ball again. Hey, TV time, TV timeout's coming in four minutes. Right? Like my freshman year, I couldn't process all that because I wasn't flexing that muscle. The more and more I studied, all of a sudden I got to my sophomore year. Hey, calm down, we still got 24 seconds on the shot clock. Hey Shane, come here. Hey, we got, you know, another minute into the TV timeout. Take your time, guys, gather your breath. Here's what the play is. And I feel like that's the same way I think about my life now. I wasn't used to flexing that muscle, but the more I flexed it about, hey, I have to call my board. Hey, they're gonna ask me piercing questions where I may not know the answer, but it's my job to go back and sit and think about it.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  And then go back to them and think thoroughly through that. Or with my wife, she pushes me, she drives me to be better. It just, all of a sudden now the matrix has slowed down a little bit. I, I look forward to when it slows down even more. But it, it's a cool experience when you work on that.

• 43:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  It's different.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  I'm sure Tom Bilyeu would love you talking about the matrix. Cause I know you're on his show, he's a good guy. Let's talk about athletes who are great at transitioning from sport to business or just life after. And a majority of them, it seemed like they're not good at it. You've been one who has been good at transitioning and building a career and business and a brand for yourself. But it seems like most of them become shells of themselves and don't know how to escape their past identity. Why is that? Why are some able to transition? And why does it seem to me like 80, 90% are unable to grow past it?

• 44:05Speaker 01

  I think some of the ones that I've seen that have been able to successfully transition out of it is that they recognize that it, it is a business. So they try to use their platform to diversify themselves as much as possible. While they have that leverage. Ray Allen used to talk to me about this all the time where he would say, hey, who are the five most powerful CEOs in Chicago? And I don't, I don't know, Ray, I'm 19 years old. I, I want to go hang out at the club, you know? And I'm like, why don't you do some research on it? You know, you get courtside seats to all these different games that you play at. Why don't you invite, you know, our CEO? Cause you want to run your own business one day, correct? Yes. Oh, okay. I am a business. Why would I surround myself with different business people, right? So I think some athletes get it.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  But it's also, it's challenging those and I go back to this whole thing about what was the infrastructure in which you were raised?

• 44:57Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  You know, you uh-

• 44:59Lewis Howes?

  We're not taught about money, we're not taught about what's after.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Fame, you're not taught about fame and I'll tell you what else fame will do to you. Fame will force you to become extremely introverted.

• 45:08Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Because if you have a lot of friends, prime example, my own family and I, middle-class family, my dad and mom did okay. My dad was one of 10-plus brothers and sisters. What it did to us was all of a sudden you get money, you have a lot of people within your own family structure that see that as we have money.

• 45:30Lewis Howes?

  Entitled. Oprah talks about this.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  We made it.

• 45:33Lewis Howes?

  I don't know if you, Oprah had this incredible interview on a podcast, I'll send it to you, where she said, because she didn't have a lot of money growing up and then she all of a sudden became famous and tons of money and everyone wanted money and it was never enough and she would help sometimes and she eventually got fed up with everyone asking her for money, that she threw a huge dinner celebration and she invited the whole family. Extended cousins, like nephews and nieces, like great aunts and uncles, like people she didn't even know, brought them all there and she threw the best feast of their life and she gave cars to people and houses and cash to some people, she gave whatever she felt like she wanted to give. And she said, "Never ask for money from me

• 46:15Lewis Howes?

  again because I'm never gonna give it to you unless I want to, but don't ask me." And she said people were still complaining, like, "You only got me one house, I should've got two. You only gave me a car, that person got this. You only gave me two grand, I should've got 10 grand." And people were still ungrateful. And I think it's a challenge, I didn't want to cut you off there, but it's just like-

• 46:34Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 46:34Lewis Howes?

  Going from not having money to then having it, you said that everyone, like, we have it now, like, everyone feels entitled, right?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 46:41Lewis Howes?

  What was that like then for you?

• 46:42Speaker 01

  It was like trying to feed somebody who had an insatiable appetite. Just, it's never gonna be done. It was weird too because there was that um, you feel an emotional connection when-

• 46:54Speaker 01

  And I don't know how you are with this, but when you, even when you go out to dinner with friends, you know, you're with seven or eight friends and some of my friends have never been to Ruth Chris. Right. Or, you know, some of these really great restaurants. Michael Jordan's Steakhouse. Yeah, you know, and when you go, you see people and once again, I haven't always been aware, but I think I've always had maybe the gift of being aware because I would catch on little things. They'd just be fragmented throughout my journey. And I would see people and see people's eyes when they will look at the menu and they would see, oh, filet mignon or, you know, whatever, the lobster. And they're like, I want to get the lobster. And then they look across and you see, you see the price. Eighty dollars. Yeah, ninety dollars. And people are like, I can't afford that. So what does that lead to?

• 47:39Speaker 01

  I got it, you know, because I want to treat you. And I think that creates a repetitive habit. That creates a bad direction because what happens is you always become that person. Right. Where wherever you go and the fame part of it too, I would see athletes go through this all the time where, can you imagine Dwyane Wade going through the airport at Miami Dade? He will be. LeBron in Cleveland. LeBron, be hassled right now. Yeah. That's at the high end of the spectrum. Okay, LeBron or D Wade. But the problem is you're talking about people who have, everybody has an ego. Their ego has driven them to get to this point. Regardless of whether you call the fifteenth guy on the roster a bum, he's still part of point zero zero one percent of the world. He's making money and he's.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Millions of dollars to play a sport that you go, you know, weekend warriors, we fight to play. So there's an ego associated with that. So certain guys, it's always about keeping up with the Joneses. You don't want to go through the airport if you have to sign autographs, even if you're a mid-tier guy. So all of a sudden that, that's three thousand dollars you're spending for three first-class seats. That easily becomes forty thousand dollars for a one-way on a private jet. So that lifestyle keeps up, but you're making absurd money. So all of a sudden, when that money stops coming in, you've had years and years and years of living this lifestyle. You think somebody's just going to be able to turn on this, uh, flip of a switch like that and just stop and all of a sudden be conservative? No, you continue to live that lifestyle.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Those kind of principles, which makes it difficult for people to. Reinsert themselves back into society, especially when they haven't been around society for that eight, that ten year stint that they've been professional athletes. Right. Everything's been taken care of. You've been on team buses or private jets and yeah. All the way around, from your accountants to your financial advisors, to your agents. Cause people are also afraid to lose you as a client. And then if you do run into that person that is strong enough to say, no, you're wrong. Hopefully you're lucky enough, if you're that person that says, no, you're wrong, that they keep you on board. But a lot of times you're like, oh, okay, I'm wrong. You're fired. Yeah. You're fired. I'll bring somebody else on board who will tell me what I want to hear. Right. And will give me the blueprint on how I want to get to where I want to be.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's hard to just turn the corner on something like that when that's been your habit. How do you feel like you were able to turn the corner and build the career you've, you know, had, write the book? And do everything you've done professionally? I had a taste of the lifestyle. I didn't have a long stay. You had a year, year and a half, right? It's like, yeah, I had a one night stay at the Four Seasons. I didn't live there for a week and a half. Right. You know, um, so for me, I had money. That was still difficult in navigating that space with my father. Uh, even after I got hurt because he remained on the payroll and there were some issues there that I had to fight through with him, which was. Yeah. But you had guaranteed money, right? Guaranteed money. Yeah. No matter what, no matter injury.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  For my first year, but then my second year, my contract could have been voided by the league. They paid me half of my second year. Because you violated the term or with the motorcycle. Terms of the agreement, yes, which is like a motorcycle going in the car above a hundred miles per hour, jet skiing, skydiving. They still paid you half. Oh, yeah. They still gave me half, which was incredible. That's amazing. Which is incredible. But still going through my twenties, I didn't know who I was. Yeah. I was lost. I'm trying to come back and play. Angry that I did this to myself. I'm trying to figure out what it is I want out of this sport. Why am I so competitive and lost in this sport?

• 51:20Speaker 01

  What is this sport doing for me? It was a painful ride, man, because at the same time, I'm trying to be in a relationship. I mean, I got engaged because I felt like I had lost everything in my life. And I wanted to hold on to it. I wanted to bring it closer to me. My dad, you know, we had this massive house in North Carolina that my parents rented. And I want to bring my then fiance down to live with us. And my dad says, when you bring, I'm not taking care of another child. My dad leaves. My mom then calls her parents and tries to talk her parents into not letting her come down. But her parents are a biracial couple that fought through all the chaos back in the sixties and seventies. And like, I can't tell my daughter who to love. So then she comes down and she stays with me. My dad leaves, my mom blames her. We're all still living together.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  You think about all these different dynamics are occurring while I'm still trying to figure out. I'm barely able to walk, you know? Like, I'm still trying to learn how to walk again, yet alone run again or play basketball again. So that that journey was a great journey because like if I don't go through all that, I don't think I ever lose that ego that I had started to become comfortable with since my freshman year, sophomore year, junior year of college, being a second draft pick. And for anybody that tells you that it doesn't go to your head, I would vehemently disagree with them. Because it does, the attention that you get for everything you do.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  If it's, you know, like Lonzo Ball or now his brothers are driving around in Lamborghinis. Crazy. At a formative stage of your life, how does that not? How does that not compromise a little bit who you are, who you want to be? You may think you have the right principles in place, but it inevitably changes you. And I was really, I was secluded, like I. Cut myself off from the rest of the world because I was embarrassed. Yeah. If I can't deal with having a conversation with myself, how can I deal with having a conversation with somebody else about what I did to myself? So when you're alone, I don't know what happens to when you're alone, but also I start to overanalyze, psychoanalyze, become depressed.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  I don't want to go outside. I'm wearing velour sweatpants in the heat of North Carolina. And the summer is 100 degrees because I don't want people to see my leg. I have a big contraption around my leg. I'm trying to make love to my fiance. I can't. All these different things just beat up your ego. Yeah. So. And probably your view of masculinity about yourself too. Exactly, exactly. About, here's about a view on that. So my fiance at that time knows everything that's going on, but I couldn't have a conversation with her about everything that's going on. Why not? Because I would just lose it. I would lose it. The one person that you finally feel like you've been able to hold on to, that you have this incredible emotional connection with,

• 54:13Speaker 01

  that you had treated poorly in your past. All right, so think about the guilt that led up to this. I had cheated on her multiple times. I had lied to her. I had played that game and been caught a couple of times. And here she is, still by my side. Wow. And I felt myself changing. But how can I show her that I'm changing when I'm, I'm still, I'm secluded. I'm only around you. I'm not, how will things change when I go back into the regular world? Who will I be? What happens if I accumulate success again? Will I revert back to who I was because I missed that attention in time? So all these different things are going on. And it was embarrassing for me to even have that conversation with somebody that I love so much that I just hurt.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Those are the things that psychologically just broke me, that led to us really not working and me channeling all my energy and effort into trying to come back and play because I had lost that. And I need to get that back because that's who I was to go into the Nets, to getting hurt and then going to the D-league and tearing my hamstring off, to lose my coach, to. Oh. So I feel like if I don't, if I don't, and I know that's an extreme, but I've. You know, who knows what an extreme situation might be for somebody else, or somebody else might be just tear ACL. But if I don't go through that, I never have this awakening or this position in life where I'm doing what I'm doing now.

• 55:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Never happens. So that inevitably led me to, this all has to happen for somewhat of a reason. Because if I don't believe that, then I go down.

• 55:48Lewis Howes?

  The dark path.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, the rest of my life in a dark area.

• 55:51Lewis Howes?

  Being a victim and yeah.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  That's not the sports mentality I have.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  You know? Yeah, I made, I made mistakes, man. Like, I turned a ball over three times. I got into a motorcycle accident. I walk with drop foot. I still have times when it's difficult for me. I own it, and it's cool, because I just, it makes me feel more empowered.

• 56:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Because I'm sharing my vulnerability with everybody and telling you that I'm human just like you. I just wake up every day and I choose to, to fight.

• 56:17Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. My man. I like that. Couple final questions for you. Is there anything you wish your dad would say to you that he hasn't said?

• 56:28Speaker 01

  You know, one of the things that, that scares me is that, you know, when you live in a city, a lot of my friends are already divorced. And it was actually one of the things that inspired me to write my book. A really good friend of mine, who was my lawyer, married his college sweetheart. And one day he came home and all of her stuff was just like gone. And she left him for a hedge fund guy. And it's the first time I realized, I was like, oh, okay, other people have accidents too. Now, you know, it's not my job to compare my accidents, because, you know, comparison is the thief of joy, right? But it's also like, all right, like, whether it's your ACL, or you lose your wife, or you lose your husband, or somebody passes away, or you lose a child, we all have our own accidents.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  And with my dad, the thing that scares me about my relationship is that I want to be successful at it. Like, I want to, and we talk about this all the time. Like, who are we surrounding with, who are we surrounding ourselves with in order to have a successful marriage? And how do we have open lines of communication? And I don't think I need anything from my father. I think my father.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Regardless of whether he thought he was or not, his life has served as a compass for me in the way I want to live my life. And I've been able to take the positives and the negatives and get to this point. I'm a sucker for love, man. I'm a sucker for connections. And I, it's hard for me to follow through with everybody, but I would be the first to apologize to somebody about, hey, my schedule's just crazy, but you have me, like you have all of me. I'm giving you my attention. I wish my father would be able to sit down with my mother and they would come to closure. They're still married. Wow. But they're not married. My dad lives in New Jersey, my mom lives in North Carolina, but they have this incredible love.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  When we first came in, I went through a pretty volatile relationship. Really opened my eyes to how committed people can be in a very volatile relationship. And how that volatility essentially becomes your norm. And how people just, because of the deep love they have for each other, they just keep rolling with it. And some people don't address it, or some people's ego don't allow them to address it. And they never really come to a conclusion on how to make that work. I don't know if my parents have ever came to a conclusion on how to make it work, but I've never seen them address it directly with each other and hear each other out.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  And as I get older, I see my mother and how beautiful of a person she is. And my mother has things too, just like my dad. But they've never been able to hear each other. Have you ever tried to facilitate it? I used to, but I don't think I've taken on the burden of that being my job anymore. I can't. Yeah. I can't. Like, it has to be something that they choose to do. A couple of years ago, I finally chose, regardless of whether it led to... frustration or arguments on their part. I said, you know what, like, I'm doing something for me. I would like to have my family around in a house that I rented out east. And I hope you guys can get along, but I want to have my family around. I'm going to do something selfish for me because I'm always worried about, well, how's my mom going to be around? My dad, how long can they be around each other? And I'm very conscious of it.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  And it was the first time I was like, you know what? You guys can figure it out. Now, it didn't work, but I was still, I was like, you know what? Okay, like, all right. It works for me. Now, selfish on my part, but I hope that one day they can come to a point where they can have that with each other. Whether it was the plus 10 kids that just lost their lives. I think up in Canada, the hockey team. Hockey, oh my gosh, so sad, man. Or if it's, um, we had a guy, his name was David, that used to come over to our house once a week and he was our exterminator. And look, man, like, I don't care what, like, you're a person. Like, I love people. Like, I'm always going to kick it with anybody. Yeah. Doesn't matter what profession, like, what job you have. And him and I would always talk about life and stuff. And then, you know, last week I get a, I get a call from his wife.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  She leaves a voicemail and she's trying to find somebody to help them out with payments. And she's like, you know, David just passed away from a heart attack. And my parents are pushing 70 and I really try to approach my life in this manner. Like, who knows what can happen? Yeah. And we take time for granted all the time. I'll do it tomorrow or I'll talk to that person when I see them in person. Sometimes it's powerful to be able to pick up the phone and call somebody like, you know what? I didn't handle this correctly or I could have handled this better. Or maybe he's not even saying that. Maybe he's just saying, how do you think I handled that?

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  And I may not agree with you, but just me hearing you can lead to us being in a better place. Like, that's powerful. And I think, I wish my parents or people I know would try to do that more. That's what I wish. Yeah, I like that, yeah.

• 1:01:38Lewis Howes?

  You're a very competitive driven person, very passionate about what you do, love people, love your work, love the mission that you're on in life. You're about to be married and with a child on the way. And you mentioned before that you have six days a week, that's essentially for your career, your businesses, traveling, and one day a week for family, essentially.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  Which was a problem.

• 1:01:59Lewis Howes?

  Is that accurate?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Yes, this year was a problem.

• 1:02:02Lewis Howes?

  How are you going to manage this moving forward with a child on the way? A wife wants your time and needs you as well? And also this competitive drive to create more and be more and build more?

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  I've thought about that a lot, and I have made the commitment to myself and to her that I'm flipping the way it works. So I am prioritizing my wife and my child. They are number one. They will be number one. And everything else needs to fall in line where it may. Now, I'm extremely lucky where the woman who I'm going to marry is patient with me because she's also ambitious and she wants me to be fulfilled and happy. But it's weird, like doing this stuff within sports, it's cool. It's a, it's a great vehicle to open up doors for conversation. And I truly feel like my purpose is to help people. If that's helping people by me telling my story and me being vulnerable with myself

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  on a platform like this, or if it's sitting with other people and helping them navigate their own space. Now, I can't, I don't think I have any answers. I don't think, you know, I always become a little bit wary and people like, here's the blueprint, here's how it works. Because everybody has their own individualistic blueprint.

• 1:03:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  But if you're able to work with somebody and talk through what that blueprint may be, or talk through how you plan on navigating that, or here are some of the potholes in that journey and how do you deal with it, then essentially you're creating that board. And I think for a lot of athletes or a lot of people, we're all athletes in our own way. In particular, you know, I really appreciate you doing this too about sharing emotion. Like from the time I've been a little boy, we fall down, we don't cry. Like, or even like what things happen to you psychologically on the court, like you get frustrated after a play. We don't show weakness. You know, you cry after you lose. You don't cry. Like you pick up, you go, like you.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  And I think now, there's a different time happening within our world, man. And I see you preaching it. I try to preach it on my side. Like to be consciously aware of your emotion. And it's okay to articulate or convey your emotion. And you should be able to convey your emotion without somebody reciprocating anger. Like somebody should be able to say, okay, I understand how you feel. I never, I never thought about it that way.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  I hear you. Have you thought about this? I think there's a, I'm trying to create more of those moments within what I do business-wise and how I build out content-wise. I think that's the direction I want to go.

• 1:04:36Lewis Howes?

  That's great, that's great. This is called the three truths. It's a question I ask at the end.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Okay, I've never seen this. No, I've never seen.

• 1:04:42Lewis Howes?

  Three truths. So imagine it's the last day for you, many years from now. You achieve everything you want. You have the family you want, the career, the businesses. You make the impact on the world, the world the way you want to. Everything you want to do, it happens. But it's the last day and you get to choose the day. You could be seventy, a hundred, a hundred fifty, whatever age you're able to be. For whatever reason, you have to take everything with you. Everything you've created, your books, your work, your, the videos that are out there about your message, it's all got to go with you when you go. But you have a piece of paper and a pen to write down the three things you know to be true about all your experiences in life that you'd share with the world. These could be your lessons essentially for the world to remember you by.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Wow, you're really going deep.

• 1:05:24Lewis Howes?

  What would you say that you would write down on this piece of paper? It's the only thing people will be remembered by you as your three truths.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  In no particular order?

• 1:05:34Lewis Howes?

  No order.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  I would say number one would be love, man. I have a deep place in my soul where I love really, really hard. And understand that people will make mistakes and I still love them. I think that's really important. I, I love to love and I also love to feel love. I think it's, it's very special.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Mystical thing that Right.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  That we have a chance to have. I'd probably say number two would be I tried to do it the right way. Like I I strived for something bigger than myself. And I think I owe that to Coach K and I I I understand that I'm a work in progress. But I think, how can I work on me? How can I work on myself and my relationship with my wife? How can I work on my relationship with my child? How can I work on my relationship with my parents, my friends, my job? How can I?

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  I think that's important to me because I think that's what drives me. Yeah. And it's not about, I think all the ancillary stuff will come as long as you try to do right by yourself. You're trying to do right by you, right? Which I don't think a lot of people, I think people try to do right by other people. But you don't, if you do right by yourself, you will inevitably do right by other people. Right. So I'd probably say that's two. Mm hmm. Oh, this is hard. And I think the last will probably be.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  I don't know. Maybe it's the ability to.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  I think this is with my job and this is what I'm trying to do in this next phase. To

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  make people, help people get outside themselves, help people get out of their own way. I was in my own way for a long time. And I still have moments where I get in my own way. But I think recognizing that I get in my own way forces me to knock that wall down.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  Being around people and talking to people every day. I feel like that's really why I was left here, man. I feel like that's a big part of my purpose. And everything that has occurred between my accident, between me, my first relationship with my fiancee not working out to falling in love with somebody else very hard again, but being lost in that, but still sending her love and positivity to this day and wanting her to do well, but recognizing that wasn't the right fit for me to.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Finding my fiance now and I have a lot of friends that joke with me about, oh Jay, you were all over the map and, and you know, you did this and you did that. And I was like, you know what? I was. And that has all led me to this point right now where I feel like because of all that, because of those ups and downs and the laughs and the pain and the joy and the sadness, it's given me perspective. And I hope I am blessed to continue to get more perspective. But helping other people gain perspective through my perspective and learning from them is, I know that I would prioritize that. That would be my wife and my child, but I feel like that really, I feel like that's why I'm here, man.

• 1:08:51Lewis Howes?

  That's great. I like those.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 1:08:53Lewis Howes?

  Those are great, man. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Jay, for your ability to come back. I think it's harder because you were even that much bigger of a draft pick and bigger attention on you. It's harder for someone like that to come back than someone who wasn't, didn't have the attention or didn't have the limelight like you did. You had much more to lose and you still came back. Not only great in business and financially and the success, but as a human being and as a man. So I acknowledge you for becoming a better man and coming back out of that accident and this whole journey you've had. And I know you're going to be an incredible father for your child, very lucky child with a father who has awareness, perspective, and goodness in your heart. So I'm very excited

• 1:09:36Lewis Howes?

  about that child's life. Before I ask the final question, I want to make sure everyone goes and gets the book, Life's Not an Accident. Make sure you go pick it up. You can get it anywhere.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Came out six years ago. Crazy to think how time flies.

• 1:09:48Lewis Howes?

  But it's powerful.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:49Lewis Howes?

  And where can we connect with you online or how can we support you right now?

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Well, I'm in a process of trying to get everything aligned right now. I think I've been a little bit all over the map the last couple of years as far as just my online presence and, and you know, So I'm at Real J Williams on Twitter and Instagram. Going to try to create a YouTube channel this summer and start focusing on that, which

• 1:10:12Lewis Howes?

  It's a journey, man.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  I have to pick your brain on.

• 1:10:14Lewis Howes?

  It's a journey.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  We'll have a lot of conversations with you about that. You know, just thrive to try to become the Oprah of the sports world, man.

• 1:10:20Lewis Howes?

  I like it.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  That's the game plan.

• 1:10:22Lewis Howes?

  That's good. And people can watch you on ESPN during college basketball.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  I mean, I'll be on a variety of shows. I'll be on Get Up a lot, which we just opened a South Street Seaport here.

• 1:10:32Lewis Howes?

  Nice.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  ESPN in New York, so I'll be on that.

• 1:10:34Lewis Howes?

  That's a new show, right?

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  It's a new show, yeah.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  It's a...

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  Who's that with Mike and?

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  It's with Mike Greenberg, Jalen Rose and Michelle Beato.

• 1:10:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's cool.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  So I'll take some more to roll in that. And yeah, I got some big things on the horizon. I got Best Shot, which is coming out in June, which would be cool. Me working with these kids and trying to push them.

• 1:10:50Lewis Howes?

  LeBron, who's executive producer on it.

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's executive producer on that. Yeah, man, I'm coming. The train isn't moving at warp speed, but it's coming.

• 1:10:58Lewis Howes?

  It's moving.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  It's moving. That's all you can ask for.

• 1:11:00Lewis Howes?

  But if they follow you on Twitter or Instagram, they'll be able to see all this stuff coming out.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:11:04Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. Final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  What's my definition of greatness? So I wouldn't equate greatness with financial success at all. I always find that interesting when people say, well, you're financially successful. I'm like, well, I don't deem that as success. I deem the way I live my life, that's greatness. Like if I can thrive for greatness by saying what I'm gonna do and doing it, being there for the people I love, being a good husband, being a good father. Now, I know those are all roadmaps that sometimes could have potholes, but I think it's, I don't think it's just the word greatness. I think it's two words added to greatness is thrive for greatness.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  And if you can have that approach on a daily basis, then if I fall an ounce or two ounces below it, I will be in good company.

• 1:12:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course. Awesome.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.

• 1:12:03Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, brother.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  I appreciate it.

• 1:12:04Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate it.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.

• 1:12:13Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed this episode, my friends. LewisHowes.com/632 is the link for the show notes, all the stuff we covered in today's episode, also where you can learn more about Jay over there. You can share out his quotables, his tweets, all those things. And share with a friend if you enjoyed this. Share with a friend. LewisHowes.com/632. Tag me on Instagram @LewisHowes. Tag Jay as well. You got the full video back over there also. We're gonna put lots of great little micro content on social media, so make sure to share any of it if you loved it at all. I'd love to hear your thoughts. My mission is to bring you the most inspiring people that really elevate the way you think,

• 1:12:54Lewis Howes?

  the way you live, the way you act, the way you think about yourself, the way you think about the world around you. And I know Jay has been one of the most inspiring people to do that for so many people out there with his message, his story, and how he's overcome so much to get to where he's at. So again, share the love out. LewisHowes.com/632. Again, thank you guys so much for all that you do. This podcast continues to grow. We just hit 60 million downloads. 60 million, guys. We are growing. We are making an impact in the world. So let me know what you think about this. Every episode, we put a lot of energy into it to make sure that you get the most value. Share with me your thoughts. Send me your testimonials. Leave a review.

• 1:13:38Lewis Howes?

  Let me know on social media how you're feeling, as we're always looking to make this better. And as always, "Your life is not an accident," Oprah Winfrey said. "Turn your wounds into your wisdom." And I'll leave you with that today, my friends. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.