62 How to Make It In the Music Industry with Jennifer Paige

After a single year in Los Angeles, Jennifer Paige had a hit single and found herself touring the world doing what she was passionate about. This kind of success isn't only valuable for those who want to become world class singers. The lessons gleamed from this interview can be used if you're an artist, entrepreneur or athlete. Thank you for listening this week! To get all the show notes and watch to Jennifer and Lewis sing together, visit www.lewishowes.com/62 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 62 with singing superstar Jennifer Paige.

• 0:09Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:34Lewis Howes?

  Hey, what is up, greats? Thanks so much for hanging out with me on this very special episode of the School of Greatness podcast. Because I've got a surprise for you guys. One, you get to hear me sing and play the guitar. And two, you get to listen to one of the most talented singers probably in the world, Jennifer Paige, sing a little bit, kind of like tease you a little bit on this episode. But also, we do a little duet and sing a song. And there's a video over on the show notes at lewishouse.com if you want to watch it.

• 1:11Lewis Howes?

  A little one or two minute clip of me attempting to accompany Jennifer with her singing a Sheryl Crow song. And I sing a little bit in there as well. But if you guys don't know who Jennifer Paige is, she is the one who co-wrote and sang this huge hit song back in the day called Crush, which I'll cue the music right now.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's right. That song. I don't know if you guys remember that song, but it was a huge hit. It was like number one on the charts for weeks and weeks and weeks. I think I was like, you know, making out to my girlfriend at that song and it was, you know, just like a fun summer type of song. That was a huge hit all over the world. And Jennifer actually reached out to me on Twitter a few months ago and we, we connected, became friends. She came out to LA, we recorded in the studio and she's got a lot of cool things that she's been doing. She did that song years ago and has been writing, has come out with another record that's been a big hit globally. She's done a lot of touring. She's done

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  commercial work. She's done a lot of different stuff and she's coming on to talk about her journey to the top and what it's like for an artist today on how to get discovered or create your own business from your talent and your music. So I'm excited to bring her on and let her discuss this journey with you. And let's dive in and connect with the one and only Jennifer Paige.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  And welcome back everyone to the School of Greatest. I'm super excited today because I've got a new friend who's in my studio, the School of Greatest studio in Los Angeles. Her name is Jennifer Paige. What's up Jen?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  What's up?

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  Do people call you Jennifer?

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what they call me.

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  Or Jenny?

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Both.

• 3:44Lewis Howes?

  Both? Ja?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Jay? I guess whatever people call me, but Jen is usually what people call me.

• 3:51Lewis Howes?

  Okay. And Jennifer lived in LA for what, six years? You used to live here?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Like nine years.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  Nine years?

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:57Lewis Howes?

  And now you live in Nashville?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  I do.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  And Jen, it's like, wait, has it been 20 years? No, it hasn't been 20. It's been 15 years, right? Since this 15 year anniversary this year?

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, something like that. Yeah. I can't break it down exactly. Yeah.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  So for those-

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Quite a long time.

• 4:15Lewis Howes?

  15 years ago, is it? Wow.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Stop, you're making me feel bad.

• 4:21Lewis Howes?

  So Jennifer is a superstar and had a hit song that was like a hit for like a year long, was number one in the charts forever. It was called Crush. But I remember this, we were just having lunch down the street and I told Jennifer that I probably like made out to this song a bunch of times with my girlfriend.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Made me feel really, really happy inside. I'm glad that I can bring about love into the world.

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. So I'm excited to talk to Jennifer Jenny J. today because I think she's got a really interesting story and journey. And she was this huge superstar 15 years ago with this big hit single Crush, right? It was number one for how many weeks? Do you even know? Like 10 weeks or something?

• 5:01Speaker 01

  I really don't know because really at that time I was pretty much traveling all over the world and I wasn't really focused on that sort of thing.

• 5:07Lewis Howes?

  Sure. But it was a hit for like the whole summer or something?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:10Lewis Howes?

  And you were 19?

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 5:12Lewis Howes?

  And how were you discovered? I know that's the question that everyone asks back in the day at least anyways, right? It's like, how were you discovered?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Totally. Um, well, I, I was in Las Vegas performing. I'd, I'd been on the road with this cover band and I was super young, right out of high school, went on the road with this band. My parents were dying, of course. And I wound up in Vegas at Bally's, the hotel Bally's and like lived there for six weeks at a time and then would go to all these other places, but then would always come back to Bally's. And so it was like my home away from home. And, and one time I was there and performing in this, this actress, Crystal Bernard, she was on that show Wings and she was on a show called It's a Living. And I loved that show. Like I was obsessed. She was southern. So I kind of felt this little kindred spirit, you know?

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  And she saw me sing and she was like, okay, next time you come to LA, you've got to give me a call, you know, definitely. And I was like, I'd never been to LA, you know? So I was like, definitely, I will definitely call you. And then I remember running up to my room and jumping on the bed because I was so excited.

• 6:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  And, and she was such a star, you know? So biggest star I'd really met and had given me attention like that. So.

• 6:23Lewis Howes?

  You were what, like 16, 17?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  No, I was like 18. So I think I was 18. So. Anyway, I was so excited and um I did, I took her up on it and and uh and I'd never been LA, but I called her and I said I was like praying that she would remember me, but like a couple of weeks later and I was like, oh, I'm coming to LA again, you know, next week or like a month or whatever, you know? And so um she she was she basically, you know, when I got there, she hired me to sing some demos and stuff like that and and we became fast friends and then um basically I stayed.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  In LA?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I never went back to my my gig. That was it and that was the start and she ended up introducing me to the producer who I ended up working with with on Crush on my first record. I was hired as a demo singer, you know, I was just like, I was good at singing demos at the time because I'd been cover bands, so I'd gotten really good at emulating like famous people's voices. So which is exactly what you need to do, because they would be like, hey, sing this like Katy Perry or whoever it was at the time.

• 7:26Lewis Howes?

  Whitney Houston.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, sing it like Whitney Houston or whoever and so I um I I started kind of getting known as a demo singer around town and then I started meeting like really great big songwriters who had had huge hits and stuff and so I was in the circle of really, you know, great talented people.

• 7:43Lewis Howes?

  At eighteen, nineteen.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:44Lewis Howes?

  So a demo, so it, you know, educate me on the music world, so a demo singer, you would write or you would sing, someone else would write the song, you would sing on it and then they would give that to the artist and say, this is like your next song.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah, because most sing um most songwriters aren't great singers. They just can really write great songs and so when they sing it, it's not really, you know.

• 8:04Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't like inspire the artist to be like, I can hear myself singing this.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 8:10Lewis Howes?

  But when they've got a great voice on their lyrics and it's like, wow, this is inspiring and I can get into it then, they're like, I want that song.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Totally, yeah.

• 8:17Lewis Howes?

  So these writers would hire you or the production houses would hire you.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  The writers, yeah.

• 8:21Lewis Howes?

  And what would that be like? What would that pay be like?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Like two hundred bucks.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  That's it? Just to sing on it, record it for an hour or two?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do your backgrounds and.

• 8:30Lewis Howes?

  Done.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're done and you take your money and you go and you never hear about it, like, did it? Did it get recorded? Did it not? You you never really know.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So did you ever do a song, a demo, and then it was like on the radio in a few months?

• 8:43Speaker 01

  No, I didn't because I actually wasn't um doing demos that long. Like I think I did it about a year and then I got signed. So

• 8:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  It was really fast for me. I got a really huge um opportunity like very early on. And I remember everybody saying, you know, this just doesn't really happen. Usually people don't move to LA and then get a deal and, you know, get a hit and then start touring and all that stuff. But it really was so super, super fast for me.

• 9:09Lewis Howes?

  So if you wanted to be in Vegas, none of this would ever happen.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Right. Cause I, I, I had dreamed of being like, you know, a recording artist and making records, being on stage. I remember imagining myself on stage in front of like huge audiences when I was a little kid. But I never really, I never really knew how to do that, you know? So I never knew, oh, you should move to LA or New York and you should try and get a demo tape too, you know, the big executive or a manager or whatever. I just didn't know anybody who had done that or I didn't know who'd ask, you know?

• 9:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Now, were your parents kind of managing you at the time or what happened?

• 9:46Speaker 01

  I mean,

• 9:46Lewis Howes?

  You moved here alone or?

• 9:47Speaker 01

  I moved here alone and Crystal was the only person that I knew. So it was crazy. My poor parents, you know?

• 9:53Lewis Howes?

  Where were you living when you were here?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Um, I lived in Studio City.

• 9:55Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, the first place I moved to was on Ventura Boulevard. And uh, right off of literally wa- like I could just walk around the corner to Ventura Boulevard. And I remember being like, so lonely. I would like walk up and down Ventura Boulevard and just be like, doo doo doo. What do I do now?

• 10:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  It was crazy. You know, it's amazing. I didn't get into like crazy trouble or something like that. But I just, you know, I just started working super fast. So it was crazy times.

• 10:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Okay. So you got signed quickly after. How did you get signed?

• 10:26Speaker 01

  I got signed because um my, the guy that I was working with came to see me perform in the cover band. That was kind of how I was paying for my living. Was I still, uh, I found another cover band to, to sing in. And it was like the hot cover band of all cover bands. Like we would play all the like Hollywood parties and, you know, so I got this taste of like the fine life and like all these celebrities and all this stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible.

• 10:51Lewis Howes?

  So how'd you get that? I mean, how'd you even get on the band?

• 10:54Speaker 01

  There was something called creative loafing. I don't know if it's still around or what, but like, or maybe it was the music connection. It was one of those and I put, I was reading it one day and there was like, ad for a singer, you know? Yeah, and I just, I just called them and then I met up with a guy and then I kind of like auditioned, you know, like basically just got and sat down at a piano and started singing.

• 11:16Lewis Howes?

  Did you play piano too?

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I play piano.

• 11:18Lewis Howes?

  So you played and sang?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I was just like, you know, what do you think? And he said, all right, you're cool. Let's do this. So.

• 11:24Lewis Howes?

  That was it?

• 11:25Speaker 01

  It was it.

• 11:25Lewis Howes?

  There was no, we'll call you back. He was like, okay, you've got, you've got the chops.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically. And, and he, he, he didn't like sign me up for all their gigs. He just kind of tried me out.

• 11:35Lewis Howes?

  Come try out this first gig?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he had me come sit in and there was another female singer at the time. So like, I just got up and sang a few songs and then like slowly after maybe like a week of like, you know, popping up there and singing a song or something, then I started getting my own gigs, you know? Then he hired me for my like, oh, I was the singer then.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  You were, he was like, okay, you're legit.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much. So he, he tested me out, but I mean, that was, that was cool. Like I really got comfortable on stage and stuff like that. So it's pretty invaluable, all that, all that timing.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  And what, uh, what were your favorite cover songs to sing back then?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I used to love to sing Sheryl Crow's All I Wanna Do.

• 12:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh my God.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  I loved that song because the, the, uh,

• 12:16Lewis Howes?

  Just have some fun.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just like the way she sings that song to you, the, the rhythm she used, like in the verses were really offbeat. I know that's kind of, but it was so fun to like learn it and learn her, the ways, the cadence she used. It was really like super artistic for a pop song.

• 12:34Lewis Howes?

  Now, I am completely, you know, I would say I'm average educated with music. And my siblings and my parents are, you know, freaks of nature when it comes to music. But, um, I would say that that song and Crush, there's some similarities, isn't there?

• 12:51Speaker 01

  That's a good, that's a good, I like that.

• 12:53Lewis Howes?

  Are there, are there some similar, I mean, was that kind of influenced in the song?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  I don't. I don't know. I don't know. Like it was, I was definitely listening to a lot of her music at the time. I can't say, you never really know. Like I know everybody always asks you, who are your influences? But like, I don't think you really know because you're listening to so much music and whatever. It's like, yeah, you morph into whatever. So I was listening to a lot of Mariah Carey at the time, Sheryl Crow, Fiona Apple, Alanis Morissette. It was just a little bit of everything, really.

• 13:23Lewis Howes?

  Right. Interesting. Okay. So you started doing your own gigs with the, with this cover band?

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 13:30Lewis Howes?

  And then what happened? So you're like doing around LA or you're going to celebrity parties?

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yep. All that stuff. And then some label people came because I, I sang this version of Chain of Fools. And the guy, Chain of Fools is Aretha Franklin's like,

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  How's it go?

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Chain, chain, chain.

• 13:48Lewis Howes?

  Oh, okay.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  You know that one? It's like a classic. And I was doing that song and they were like, hey, we should do a remix of this song. So this guy, Mohammed Merata, he was this awesome DJ on, on Groove, I forget the name of the station, but it was an LA station. And he just did for free. He just did this, or originally it was for free. He did this cool remix. I did this really basic, like, track, voice, you know, of Chain of Fools. And, and then he took the vocal and created a remix around it. And it was really, really cool. Like, I loved it. I totally loved it. I was like, oh my God, I cannot believe he did that, you know? How did he do that? But it was so, so cool. And it started kind of going up the

• 14:33Speaker 01

  charts and there was nothing behind it, really. And people started going like, who is this chick? Like, what is going on? You know? So that's really how I got my start. Then Adel, the record company that signed me originally, is a German company and they saw this thing kind of popping out of nowhere. And then they flew to, they, they were opening up a company in New York. And they flew to California to meet with me and stuff. So that's really how it happened. Then, you know, we, we got a little bit of a budget to go.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  What's a little? Ten, twenty grand or something?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I think I got my signing bonus was like twenty-two thousand dollars.

• 15:07Lewis Howes?

  That's not bad for a nineteen year old. You're rich.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  I felt rich. I felt so rich. I felt like, I was like, wow, like, this money will never run out.

• 15:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Ever. I think my rent was like six hundred dollars a month.

• 15:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  It was awesome. Good times, good times.

• 15:22Lewis Howes?

  So, man, this happened so fast then. You're just like singing, just to have fun and just to make some money to like live here.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I, I did have these big ambitions, but I never really knew exactly. I, I remember like, I was always pretty resourceful. So I, you know, I did go make my own demo tape. And what I did was like I sang cover songs of like Celine Dion and, and I, and Mariah Carey, I think was one. And maybe like, I forget who, well, I think Melissa Etheridge was one, because I was trying to show versatility.

• 15:53Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  So I was doing like very, yeah, I can do everything and just hire me, please, for your, for your demo singer, because I need to pay my six hundred dollar rent.

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Um, so, so I did that early on when I first moved here. And then I, like anytime I would meet a new songwriter, then I would give it to them, you know? And I would say, please pass this to somebody or whatever. So I think I was, I knew to do that at least.

• 16:17Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty good. So you were like hustling, you were doing your little personal branding and getting yourself out there.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 16:22Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:23Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so this happened in basically like a year. You're doing a couple of like gigs with this cover band. And then you do this song, what is it called? Chain?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Chain of Fools.

• 16:32Lewis Howes?

  Chain of Fools.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  You're in so much trouble for not knowing that song.

• 16:35Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I know when you sing it. I understand. I've heard it a bunch. I just don't know the name.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, and then you get signed and you get this budget and you get the signing bonus. And then what happens next? That was, and then Crush comes out, right?

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Pretty much, yeah.

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  This is insane. So it's like in a year or two.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  I just feel like it was kind of meant to be because it just was like, it just happened, you know? And um, there was nothing I could, I could have really forced to make, I was so naive, you know?

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  I didn't know and um.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  It's like, yeah, let's do it.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Sure, let's do this. Awesome, sounds fun. Let's go. So uh, so yeah, so I um, I recorded the record with the budget and then, you know, we had more of a budget to actually make the record. Um, but that was like my living money. And like a really funny story is when I signed my record, um, I had this little LaBaron convertible that I'd bought when I moved out to California. And it was just like this clunker, really, but I loved it because it was convertible and it was cute to me. But anyway, I got stuck. We went to this like really nice restaurant for my signing, like for the like celebration of me signing my record deal with Adel. And then Hollywood Records came in later and they were part of this too at this time.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  And um, I pulled up to valet and my, my car quit in the valet line in front of everybody. And it was one of those where you couldn't, like the whole line was right off of, I think it was like Sunset Boulevard or something. It was totally packed and I was the like awful person where my car stalled and they had to like move it. They had to push it. I was devastated. But the great thing is then they gave me 10,000 more dollars to go buy a car.

• 18:13Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:15Lewis Howes?

  Perfect.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  It actually was really good.

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  That's awesome.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was so funny, so embarrassing, oh my gosh.

• 18:23Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so you get the signing, everything happens and then what's the deal? Do they write these songs for you? Are you writing songs and then saying, hey, this is what I want on my, my record or?

• 18:33Speaker 01

  I was, it was like a little bit of both. At that time I wasn't like, I now I write a lot. I write for myself, write for other artists and stuff, write for different types of things like pop songs and commercials and different kinds of stuff. But back then I was really scared to share my stuff that I'd written with people. I was really like, I just felt like it wasn't like I was surrounded by all these hit writers and I didn't really know. What was good or what was was mine as good as theirs or my idea is stupid or no, I just didn't have the confidence.

• 19:03Lewis Howes?

  Did you have enough experience?

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Did I know? Like, I don't really know. Like, maybe they know. So, um, so anyway, I I basically on the first record, I think I wrote like three of the songs, you know, and the rest were other people's songs. But then my next record was like mostly songs written by me. And then my last couple of records are all songs written by me, basically.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so the record comes out. How long did it take to finish?

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, like seven months, something like that.

• 19:33Lewis Howes?

  To write all the songs, to record it all and just kind of like get it ready?

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:37Lewis Howes?

  And so what happens then? Or what happened, I guess, then? Was it like we release a single first and then that promotes the the whole album? Or what's what happens?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Well, usually, um, a a big label, you know, will like promote their artists, you know, a few months ahead of time, you'll set them up at like South by Southwest or, you know, you'll go and and you'll definitely want to create the buzz. Yeah, but there was none of that. There was none of that. It was just basically like this, um, the the producer that I was working with took in the um, crush when we had had it mixed and everybody was like in our little tiny team of three people, you know, they were, we were like, this sounds like a hit, you know? And uh, so we we took it to this this lady who was pretty high up in the industry and then she took it to um, Kiss FM LA. And um, they started playing it immediately.

• 20:29Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  They tested it. They did like, hey, you know that like Fly or Die or whatever it is, those things where, you know, they they play like a couple of songs and and listeners basically ra- rate it? Do they like it? Do they hate it? Thumbs up, thumbs down, whatever? Well, it just kept winning these battles.

• 20:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  And I was like, every night, my song would be the winner of the battle. So that's a huge station to get noticed by. I mean, in the like, one of the biggest in the world, basically like, so um, that they really broke me. And and so it just was literally that easy. It was crazy. So I just remember being like on the radio and being like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm on the radio.

• 21:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  It was nuts.

• 21:08Lewis Howes?

  And you're like, you didn't feel like it was a struggle because it happened so young.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 21:12Lewis Howes?

  Everything fell into place.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Pretty much. I mean, once I moved to California, it happened really quickly. Um, but before that, like I had, you know, I'd been on the road for, you know, a few years by then.

• 21:22Lewis Howes?

  Doing cover stuff.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, doing cover stuff. I had really toured.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  When you were sixteen.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like seventeen.

• 21:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Right after, you know, high school, I started touring and, um, you know, it just, yeah, it happened so quickly. I mean, I'd already performed at an Olympics.

• 21:35Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 21:36Speaker 01

  I'd done, I'd done a lot of stuff in ninety six.

• 21:38Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Cause it was Atlanta.

• 21:40Lewis Howes?

  What'd you do?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  From.

• 21:41Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  Anthem or something or?

• 21:43Speaker 01

  I did, um, I was in the Joe's Band, the cover band, you know, that I told you about. That, that band was chosen, the one that did all, all the Hollywood parties and stuff. That band was chosen to be, you know, the band for the Olympics. So we did that party and I mean, I'd done some really cool stuff by the time I got a deal. I just feel like I had really good, like instincts and luck.

• 22:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  It's kind of crazy.

• 22:06Lewis Howes?

  That's incredible.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  It was funny.

• 22:08Lewis Howes?

  So what were you doing before all this? I mean?

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Always singing.

• 22:11Lewis Howes?

  Always? When you were a kid?

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Yep. Me and my brother both are singers and he's still a professional music musician to this day. He, um, works, he does like a lot of choir work, so he'll hire like the best singers in Nashville, basically, to come and, and sing like whatever work is, you know, and he'll arrange the vocals and stuff like that. So he's, he's very talented.

• 22:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  He's an amazing singer himself. So, um, we, we worked together a lot actually and he's a producer as well. So, anyway, young days, we, we'd sing duets together and we were those geeky kids, you know, who, you know, just, just were the local, you know, whatever. My, my dad was a contractor, so he, um, he would build a shopping center, like a local shopping center. And then on opening day, he would like ask the owner of the shopping center if it would be okay if we were the entertainment for the opening day.

• 23:00Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  So we started getting familiar with just being on stage at like, I think I was like nine or so when I started being on, on stage. And, uh, it was just like, people would be like, oh, they're so cute, you know, just like, we weren't good. We were just like cute kids, basically. But we thought we were good, you know, and we thought it was like a big deal and people took us really seriously and. My dad had us do like Tony Robbins, like whatever that ultimate power or something like that.

• 23:26Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  As a family, I remember like, what are your biggest dreams? I'm like, I wanna be, I don't know. I remember like choosing a producer that I had seen on somebody's album credits. And I was like, I wanna work with so and so, you know, and stuff like that.

• 23:41Lewis Howes?

  And you did it.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  I did. Not him, exactly. But I did go to dinner with him once. So, stuff like that, you know, just like we, and then we went to a performing arts high school, both of us. And then we went to like, these college classes in the summers that were like for college kids, but we were accepted into this program called Governor's Honor. So I feel like I got a lot of like

• 24:02Lewis Howes?

  Training.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Training, early on. Yeah. Cause that performing arts school was like intense. It was good.

• 24:08Lewis Howes?

  No, this is crazy. Okay. So, when did you know that you actually had some good talent then? Cause you were nine and you're like, we thought we were good, but we weren't. But, you know, what, what age did you realize, whoa, like people are actually responding? Were they're kind of blown away or really inspired?

• 24:25Speaker 01

  I think when I was like a junior in high school, because it was a performing arts school, there was a lot of talent around. So

• 24:33Lewis Howes?

  Everyone was good.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Everybody was good. Especially the seniors. I was a junior, but all the seniors were really good. Like it was a great class of people. And, and so I was like the one, the younger one, right? That was like coming up behind them, you know? And then I started like auditioning for all these, these things. And then I started kind of getting them, you know? So it's like, something happened that junior year, where I started winning everything, you know, winning any competition I was in, or getting noticed, or getting chosen for that Governor's Honors thing. And so I started being like, okay, now I think I must be, I must be good. Cause people keep asking me to do this, you know?

• 25:09Lewis Howes?

  And you were just, do you just like sing all day? Or what was it like back then?

• 25:12Speaker 01

  I remember my dad and mom being like, shut up, you know, like from downstairs, I'd be up and I'd just be like obsessing over other singers, like vocal licks, or, you know, just like tone. I was really into like trying to Emulate things, not because I wanted to be them, but I just wanted to be able to do stuff with my voice that I wasn't able to do. So.

• 25:34Lewis Howes?

  So give me an example. Can you like show an example of how you would practice this or train or like you're going to emulate Whitney Houston versus another popular singer back then? Like, what would you do?

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Like, I think it was just like a really like a technical thing that maybe people wouldn't find interesting. I don't know, but like.

• 25:53Lewis Howes?

  I'd be interested.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Okay, perfect. All right. Then we'll do it. We'll do it. So like, like, for instance, at the time, it was Mariah Carey, you know, and she, she was doing like Vision of Love. You know, that's this amazing song. And then there was another song called Vanishing. And Vanishing was really soulful. And, uh, and it was really like bluesy almost. And being from the South, like, I just really responded to that sound. And I mean, I'm a white chick, you know, I can only do so much, right?

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  If you say so.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  I'm thinking, you know, so I was just like, okay, I can do this. I can do this. And I was like, uh, you're vanishing. So, okay, like, instead of being like, vanishing, I would be like, shing. Those little, little, little things, you know? I would just be like, okay, and I would try and do exactly the timing that she would do. And so like, if I wasn't exactly with her, then I would just do it until I could do it, you know? So I didn't know that I was like trying to, um, like hone my skills, but I was doing it because it was fun to me.

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  I wasn't like super serious. I just, I just loved it.

• 26:58Lewis Howes?

  Just wanted to match it.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  I just was like, I can do this. And then especially like high notes, um, I really wanted to be able to hit high notes, you know? And I, I, that would be something that I was struggling with, you know? So like, that's when my parents would be like, shut up, you know? Because I would be, I would sing a high note over and over and over and over again until I could do it, you know? So.

• 27:19Lewis Howes?

  This stuff is fascinating to me. It's probably fascinating because I can't do it, you know, like half is.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  See, but it's a lot of it's practicing. I didn't even know I was practicing.

• 27:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  But I was just so drawn to it that I, that was fun to me. So like when everybody was like going to like, you know, pool parties and stuff like that as a kid, I just was like more interested in like learning to sing and being in contests and stuff like that.

• 27:42Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I did some of that stuff, but I wasn't like every weekend doing stuff like that.

• 27:48Lewis Howes?

  Would you have, you know, if you were 16 again and American Idol was on?

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:53Lewis Howes?

  Would you have auditioned for it?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  I'm sure I would have. Yeah, I'm sure I would have.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Or the X Factor or whatever, you know, the Voice.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Yep, I'm sure I would have. Yeah. Cause I mean, as a kid, you don't know what to do and you think like, somebody's got answers. I'm going there, you know, so I, I mean, I would, you know, I would, yeah, definitely.

• 28:11Lewis Howes?

  What do you think of those, those shows, those competitions?

• 28:14Speaker 01

  I think they're great and in the aspect that it's, it's like overnight exposure and like you can go from zero fans to like millions of fans, but they pay such a high price really because they're, you know, basically they're walking in with a contract that they kind of have to sign that they can't negotiate.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  If they get signed, this is your contract. If you win, here's the contract.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like if you want to be on this show, here's the contract, sign it.

• 28:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  You can't really negotiate unless you have some kind of leverage, which most people don't like, you know, unless you're, I mean, unless they really, really want you. Like everybody gets the same contract and they're intense contracts. Like they are.

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  Do you know, do you know what they are or have you heard of?

• 28:57Speaker 01

  I don't know if they're different for everybody, but I just know that they're like 360 deals, which is like they get a portion of your merchandising, your touring, and this goes for, for a long, long, long period of time. So, you know, they pay a really high price. So it's like if they can do it on their own, it's always better, you know, to do that because then you're gonna see more, but it's really a toss up. Like, you know, it's just what makes the most sense.

• 29:21Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  For that person and if they could do it on their own or not.

• 29:24Lewis Howes?

  Right. Okay. Well. Unfortunately, that's not what you did. Well, I guess fortunately, that's not what you did.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:30Lewis Howes?

  You got signed and then you became a huge star, basically overnight, I guess you could call it when this this record went out and Crush was like number one that whole summer or whenever it was. And what was that like then? You were touring?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  I was touring the world, really. Yeah.

• 29:45Lewis Howes?

  Were you like instant celebrity then when you came back to the States? Do people know you?

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:49Lewis Howes?

  And like you were on every radio station. Everyone wanted to get a piece of you.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I was doing like, uh, you know, fourteen interviews a day and

• 29:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  you know, getting up at like five thirty in the morning for makeup and television, the early morning show and, you know, going to bed after like a late dinner with like all the people that I needed to, you know, rubel- what is, what do they say? Rubel bells?

• 30:13Lewis Howes?

  Sure, yeah.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  That's the strangest. I never thought about how weird that phrase is. Um, yeah, like I had to do all those meet and greets and all that stuff. So it'd just be like a daily. It was a machine.

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  How long did that last for?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Years.

• 30:25Lewis Howes?

  Years?

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:26Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Insane. Yeah. And then you kind of do it again when you go to promote your second record, which was, for me, was in two thousand one. You just get up and you do it again, basically.

• 30:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  And you hope that it goes as well as your original does, you know? It's always like, you know, no matter what level of success you have, I feel like everybody, you know, is always like hoping that they can reach that success again.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  So, okay, so Crush was number one for however many weeks. Well, I'll do the research and figure it out. But, um, did you ever have another song that hit number one?

• 30:58Speaker 01

  No, I, I never had a number one. I had some top fives, um, and I had some hits, but especially around the world, not really in America. Unfortunately, um, my second record was released the week of September eleventh and

• 31:12Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just terrible timing. I mean, music really, um, was on hold and the song that, um, that I was releasing as the single was like all about like these days, everything's wonderful and

• 31:24Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  you know, everything's like awesome.

• 31:25Lewis Howes?

  I wanted to hear that song.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Oh, no. I didn't even want to sing it. I was embarrassed to promote it because it just felt so inappropriate. And, um, and yeah, it just like, it pretty much just. Came and went in America, but fortunately for me, I got to go overseas and do some tours and stuff like that. So the life of the record was extended through, you know, the world, basically. And there was a song called Stranded that became a big hit as well.

• 31:50Lewis Howes?

  All around the world.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And we talked before during lunch, like, you know, Italy is probably the place you're most well known, right?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  I mean, that's, I, it's hard for me to know, to be honest, but I, I love being in Italy and I love the people there. And I always like receive a major, yeah, like a huge, warm welcome.

• 32:10Lewis Howes?

  It's gotta feel nice.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Yes. It's the best country in the world to be loved. I just want to go there as often as possible.

• 32:18Lewis Howes?

  That's incredible. Okay. So it's been 15 years about, right?

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  Is that what it's been? What was it? 1997, eight, nine, eight?

• 32:25Speaker 01

  It was released in some places, it was released in 99. So, yeah.

• 32:29Lewis Howes?

  It's called 15 Years.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:31Lewis Howes?

  Now, some would say that you had your base success, you know, your first time around, right?

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, yeah, some would say like, I came and went.

• 32:41Lewis Howes?

  Based on results.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:42Lewis Howes?

  What you've created for, I guess, you know, how we view things as being successful.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:48Lewis Howes?

  You had a number one when you first came out and in 15 years, you haven't had a number one.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah.

• 32:53Lewis Howes?

  How's that make you feel?

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Well, I think I used to get my feelings hurt. I used to be like, I'm not a one hit wonder. You guys are crazy. Like, I have toured this world and I have had other hits and whatever. And, but like then one day I just woke up and I was like, that's ridiculous. Like, I actually have been like successfully living as a musician, as a performer, as an artist. I mean, I've done, I've done so many cool things. Like I've performed for the Pope. I've, you know, I've, I've, I sing on one of, in the first MTV show in China. And it was like the, the first rose. It was their first like, Thing that their first show that wasn't controlled by the government.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  So it was like a big deal, right? And the first few rows was all military. And they told me if I like said anything inappropriate or wore anything inappropriate, I would go to jail. Yeah. So like stuff like that. I've, I've experienced so much as a singer. My, my singing has taken me so many cool places. And I mean, this has been throughout my career. It's not, you know, I went to Russia a couple of years ago.

• 33:57Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't just the first couple of years.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's like really just that people don't know, you know, and they don't know that I've gone and done some really cool things. All around the world, but in America, I have, I've really not done as many things as, um, as around the world, to be honest, but, um, but I've done a lot of cool things in America that people don't know about, like, you know, I've written songs for commercial campaigns and, um, you know, I, I co-wrote a song with Smash Mouth recently for their single and, um, you know, I've just gotten to do, I've, I've written songs with a lot of up and coming artists that should be coming out within the next year or so. So, you know, just like really cool stuff like that, that I'm, I'm proud, you know, that I've been able to do that.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  And, and, and it hit me at one point too, like, why in the world would I ever feel bad about like doing something that most people could never like have never done? And like, it's like, you only got one gold medal? Like what a loser.

• 34:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, what? What is happening? I just stopped believing, I stopped subscribing to that thought.

• 34:58Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, why did you stop subscribing to that?

• 35:01Speaker 01

  I think because I, well, I got to.

• 35:03Lewis Howes?

  How old were you?

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Uh, I was, I was, I think I was like 28, 20, you know, by that time.

• 35:07Lewis Howes?

  So about 10 years or?

• 35:08Speaker 01

  In the business, like you get beaten down pretty good.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, you just have to keep motivating yourself and, and knowing, you know, finding that inner strength to, to keep going and to keep it fun and that sort of thing. And, and at a certain point, it wasn't fun. I felt like, like. You know, my managers weren't great, like I didn't have the support that I needed. Um, I felt very alone in the business and I didn't know if I really had any true believers. You know, I just was like, man, this sucks, you know? And uh, and I just was like, do I even wanna do this anymore? I really hit that rock bottom where it's just like, I've done a lot of really cool things. Maybe I just pack my bags and go and do something cool, you know, something else.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  But it's like, it just, the second that you do that, then like that really cool thing around the corner happens and you're like, alright, well, I guess I'm meant to do this, you know? So I would always find myself sucked back in, whether it be like a, you know, a song got placed in, you know, Laguna Beach or, you know, a show that I, or a movie or something that I would just be like, well, that was awesome. You know, and, and it's just like, always kept me going. You know, right when, right when my fire was like,

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  About to.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, about to die. Yeah, I was just like, alright, well, cool, I still got it.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  You know?

• 36:24Lewis Howes?

  And so this was like the last, you know, handful of years, you were kind of out of it, right? You were kind of like, uh, you lost your drive or your passion as much, right?

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, totally. My, I actually lost my parents in two thousand and eight.

• 36:35Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Two thousand and eight, my, my mom had been having like some lung issues and she passed away in January of two thousand and eight. And then, um, and my mom and dad were together, you know, like really, really awesome couple. And then two weeks later, my dad passed away.

• 36:52Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  He had a heart attack.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was terrible. It was really, really terrible. And so, uh, we just like, my brother and I just totally struggled, you know? And, and that's about when I just, I just really lost the will to fight, you know what I mean? My fight was low already. I felt, like I was saying, like I s- I started feeling very alone in the business and like, who cares, you know, does anybody care? And, uh, like, I just, I, I had always had like such a will and such a strong drive and, um, passion and, you know, fight. And, and that fight was just gone. Like I just didn't have an enemy. So, you know, I just got really down and, and I did have a deal at the time with a company called Glor.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Um, a German company and I had one record deal with them. And um, so I, I did a lot of like traveling and touring. It was good like distraction almost. Made, made a record with them.

• 37:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  But my heart was just broken, you know? And, and then like two years later, that huge flood in Nashville happened. I don't know if people know about that here, but like, um, or anywhere, but um, you know, this huge flood happened and people's homes were like destroyed. And my parents' home, my dad was a builder. He was a contractor and he had built, like he had, he had built like parts of the home and it was destroyed. Like it was just like, and I just felt like, man, I mean, I was just starting to, and then we had to like rebuild this home and all this stuff. There was a lot to deal with around that. And then like, um, yeah, it just like, I just was like exhausted.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  So I think that was like, almost like a, um, a, a time where I really found myself in a different way.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  And I, I found my fight again, you know, like after all that, I was just like, dang, if I can get through all of this, like I can, you know?

• 38:41Lewis Howes?

  In a couple of years, right?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  Was it two thousand ten when the flood happened or what?

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Yep, two thousand ten. And then, are you ready for this?

• 38:48Lewis Howes?

  Bring it.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Then I got melanoma cancer.

• 38:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  And

• 38:52Lewis Howes?

  Explain what that is.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  It's like, it's, it's like, it looks like a sunspot, basically. And um, and I had a little spot on my cheek, on my like right, on my right cheek. And uh, and I, I was like, what is this? I went to a dermatologist and they were, they put some kind of chemical on it and it went away for a minute. And then I went back like six months later and, and it had come back. And then I guess that's a bad sign. And so I had to have surgery twice.

• 39:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  And it was just like, what the heck is going on, you know? So it was just like bam, bam, bam. But I think what happened during all that time, I'm fine now, by the way.

• 39:31Lewis Howes?

  That's good to hear.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm all good. I'm all good. But like, um, you know, it took some time to heal and all that stuff. And during that, it just like, I, I've, you know, I found my fight again. I, I have a stronger will to live than I ever have after seeing my parents pass away, having that like brush with death myself. And and like now I'm just like, man, I just wanna do what makes me happy. And that's what it's about, you know? So I'm not gonna do anything that I don't wanna do. I don't really care what anybody thinks. Like, I used to care a lot. I don't care at all. Like, not in a bratty way. Like, in just like a, this is like, we have one life, basically. Like, if your heart calls you to do something, it's important to do it, you know?

• 40:14Speaker 01

  So I think I never really thought about it like that because my early days were so spontaneous. And I was so like led in a way. And now, like, I'm, it's just a different thing. Like, now I'm like, what do I wanna do? Like, what do I really wanna do?

• 40:27Lewis Howes?

  What is that?

• 40:28Speaker 01

  It's cool.

• 40:28Lewis Howes?

  What do you wanna do?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  So I wanna do a million things, like always. I've always wanted to do a million things. But um, I I have a lot of really cool projects in the works that I'm super excited about. And they're just like little departures from what I've always done. And they're like little growth spurts for me. Like, for instance, over the last several years, you know, like I said, I've placed a bunch of music and film and television and

• 40:51Lewis Howes?

  It's gotta feel cool.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  commercials and stuff like that. Yeah, totally. And it's just like its own, it's it's its own thing. I released a record on my own. I took it to radio. So like, I've had a major deal. I've had an indie deal and I've released a record on my own. You know what I mean? So like, I feel like I've learned, what is it like to do that? What's it like to do that? What's it like to do that? And so I've learned little bits and pieces along the way that now I'm really like inspired to create um, a place where singers can come and they, like, they don't have maybe a friend of the family or something like that where they can say like, what do I do? How do I make it? What do I, how do I get a song in my favorite television show? What do I do to get a song in an ad campaign? Like, what if I don't know anybody? What if I live in Timbuktu?

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Like, what if, you know, there's no chance for me or whatever? You know, I just want, cause I remember that feeling of not knowing what to do and it stinks, you know? So I just really want, it's the first time in history, I feel like, where artists have distribution on their own because through TuneCore and iTunes and YouTube and all these, these things that are fingertips for free. If you know how to navigate it well. Then like opportunities galore, basically. But there's a lot of people out there doing it wrong and they're basically wasting their time. And it sucks because they're spending a lot of time or a lot of money. And they really don't know how to to get it to people. You know, just like maybe they've got like thirty, you know, thirty plays on their YouTube channel.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  And you know, it's like their family and friends or whatever, you know, or they have to beg every, please like my page. You know, or whatever. And just, there's a lot more ways that they can, you know, they don't have to struggle quite as much.

• 42:30Lewis Howes?

  So. And you've learned a lot of how to do it all through like trial and error and figuring it out yourself.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Trial and error. So I'm kind of, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be doing a podcast like you. Um, for, for singers, basically where I'll, I'll be interviewing artists and people who have had really big careers. And people who are just great for just incredible teachers for young artists, or artists of any age, really, who still have like the desire to, to crush it.

• 42:58Lewis Howes?

  That, there you go. When is it gonna come out? When are you gonna start this?

• 43:01Speaker 01

  Soon.

• 43:01Lewis Howes?

  Soon, right? Okay, cool.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  Well, I'll link it up on the show notes whenever you launch it. So people will have a link for it.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Perfect, thank you.

• 43:08Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  What do you, what do you think of the breakthrough artist?

• 43:12Lewis Howes?

  I think it's cool.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  That's what it's called.

• 43:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Good, I'm glad you like it.

• 43:15Lewis Howes?

  It's cool.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Awesome, good.

• 43:17Lewis Howes?

  What if I didn't like it?

• 43:18Speaker 01

  That would have sucked. You would have just been like, wah wah. You would have killed my dreams. Way to go.

• 43:22Lewis Howes?

  Breakthrough artist, I like that. No, it's good.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 43:24Lewis Howes?

  But you don't care what anyone thinks anyways, so.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  That's true. Good point. I do, I said, I said, not in a bratty way, not in a bratty way.

• 43:32Lewis Howes?

  I mean, it's, it's interesting because there's so many artists that are making six, multiple six figures, who are kind of like indie artists, I guess, or just local artists and haven't really hit a major scene.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 43:43Lewis Howes?

  But they're finding ways to market themselves specifically online and capture their thousand true fans or whatever.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:51Lewis Howes?

  To buy tickets, buy merchandise, buy, buy their songs.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  People that I want to interview, also even bigger stars.

• 43:57Lewis Howes?

  Like Macklemore's and yeah.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  I mean, he's obviously gone like completely, you know, crazy worldwide. That's a different, a different level. But um, I think it's gonna be really cool to speak to people who, yeah, who have like a indie following and, and there are really different ways to approach the industry. If you want to be a big pop star, you want to approach it this way. If you want to go indie and tour and. You want to approach it that way, you know, so stuff like that. I just want to like pull the nuggets from those people who are doing it well.

• 44:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  And hopefully people will learn and without making the same mistakes because artists always make the same mistakes. For generations, we're making the same mistakes and it's so silly. You know, giving your rights away and all that stuff. Like you just don't have to do it. We don't have to keep doing that now.

• 44:40Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. I've got a guy, maybe you want to interview. He's not as well known as you, but his name is Randy Williams.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:47Lewis Howes?

  And he, it's interesting. He has like this, this van that he bought that runs on like oil, like uh, kitchen oil.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:57Lewis Howes?

  Like from, you know, like he'll go to a restaurant and he'll get their oil.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  So Willie Nelson of him.

• 45:02Lewis Howes?

  And he'll fricking, he'll fuel his whole tour from like kitchen stops.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 45:07Lewis Howes?

  Getting these bags of like vegetable oil.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  I think that's awesome.

• 45:10Lewis Howes?

  And then he's got his whole merch thing set up in his van, in his like van. He's got a bed that folds out.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:15Lewis Howes?

  Everything. It's incredible.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  That is crazy.

• 45:18Lewis Howes?

  And he's got like tour gigs set up all the time. And he goes like, he's really good friends with the people at these places. So he always goes back every year.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  So it's like, if that's the life that you want and you're like, I, I just want to tour no matter what, that and, and that's what you, you just want the experience of it. That's the way to go. But if you don't want to get in a van and go across, you know.

• 45:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Then there's probably a different.

• 45:39Lewis Howes?

  There's other ways.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  There's other ways.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's multiple ways to make money and get your music out there.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 45:43Lewis Howes?

  And be heard and be, and be found. So.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:46Lewis Howes?

  And that's what they're going to be showing people.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Basically, all the different ways and.

• 45:49Lewis Howes?

  And how to do it.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Different approaches.

• 45:50Lewis Howes?

  I love it. I love it.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 45:52Lewis Howes?

  So besides that, what else is up for you? And what are you really, I don't know, what are you really excited about creating?

• 45:59Speaker 01

  I'm working on a new EP right now. That's really fun. Um, I'm excited about that just because like I said, the last several years have just been like, whoa.

• 46:08Lewis Howes?

  Heavy.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  I've just got like, I, I'm just enjoying like creating music, you know? So that's a big thing. And I'm doing some guest vocal kind of things. I just did a thing with York. The band York, um, there's a song called Under the, Lost Under the Sun that I just did.

• 46:25Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  And it did really well in the trance, um, world.

• 46:29Lewis Howes?

  In the house trance world?

• 46:30Speaker 01

  So fun. Like I'm just really into just doing something like that.

• 46:33Lewis Howes?

  That song.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I bet you'd like it. It's called Lost Under the Sun.

• 46:37Lewis Howes?

  Lost Under the Sun?

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and um, it's, it's York featuring Jennifer Paige. But there's, um, there's a couple of different remixes of it. And I have a favorite. Um, I'll know when I see, but there are like several different versions.

• 46:51Lewis Howes?

  So are you doing more of that? Cause I mean, that seems like the big, the big hit right now is the house trance scene, right?

• 46:56Speaker 01

  I'm in, I'm totally into that.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  You are?

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:58Lewis Howes?

  I mean, here's what I like. The coolest house or trance songs, I don't even know like the differences between them, but the coolest ones for me are what I call the crazy high girl voices.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:09Lewis Howes?

  Where you got some crazy high girl voice like singing in the background, belting it out. You don't even know what she's singing, but it's like, this is epic.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:16Lewis Howes?

  I think you'd be great at that.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thanks. I got that. I got that. No, I just, I, I like basically don't wanna limit myself. I want to.

• 47:25Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  You know, I'm doing, I want, I'm doing those kinds of things with different artists. That stuff's really, really cool. Um, creating my own EP, which is, is super fun. And then like this big project with the, the podcasting and, and with the young, you know, younger artists and stuff. And I think it's just, I'm like excited to see where it all leads because it's all, it feels like a really like a resurgence in a way. So, um, I know it's for something, like it feels big for my life. So, so it's a, it's a cool time for me.

• 47:56Lewis Howes?

  It's great.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  It's really fun.

• 47:57Lewis Howes?

  It's a great, uh, part of your journey.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Huge.

• 48:00Lewis Howes?

  Now,

• 48:02Lewis Howes?

  if you could perform with one artist, who would you wanna perform with or work with or sing on, sing with or whatever?

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Right now I'm really into, um, oh, what's his name? Oh my gosh. I hope I don't go blank like I usually do when I try and, uh, figure out somebody's name. I've been listening to him like all day. Um.

• 48:23Lewis Howes?

  Is there a song?

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, I don't wanna talk about, talk about it.

• 48:28Lewis Howes?

  Talk about it.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Talk about it. Um.

• 48:29Lewis Howes?

  Who's that by?

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Uh, that's what I'm, uh, what is wrong with me? I don't know. But like, he's this amazing artist that I'm so, so, so into it. Um, anyway.

• 48:41Lewis Howes?

  It's not Daniel. No, not Daniel Powder. Let me see.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Um.

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  Oh, well.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Anyway, anyways, he's amazing. And, and the whole, the whole thing is that he's, he's like, he's kind of like a Bruno Mars, Justin Timberlake, like, but he's edgier and he, he does, and I, I love, um, I love like Lissy and Ellie Goulding and like, I mean, that's my kind of music. Like right now I'm just like obsessed with that kind of music. So.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Um, it's like great singers who have really modern sounds like.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  The production is is really modern and I love I love like the beat and all that stuff. So yeah, I've been really listening.

• 49:21Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Anyway, those those are the kind of people I'm really into working with right now.

• 49:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Okay, what like um someone who who's not with us anymore? What singer would you love to like do a duet with?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Hmm, man, uh.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  I I'm thinking of a lot of people right now, but like. I don't know why, like I just have always loved Johnny Cash.

• 49:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  I just I don't know if it's because I'm from the south and he's been so built up or what. But like I I like love Johnny Cash music, which is really a like a curve ball, I know. But like um I think he would be maybe I just want to know him.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  I think I just want to be friends with him.

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Like I want to be like I want to be invited for dinner.

• 50:09Lewis Howes?

  To a party with him.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:10Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11Lewis Howes?

  What type of advice would you give uh you know, a young artist who's got passion for singing or playing music? And maybe they're a teenager or about to go into college and they're from a small town. And maybe they're listening right now. And they've got this passion and they're constantly they listen to the things you talked about when you were growing up. And they're like, gosh, that's what I do. I'm like trying these little melodies and this thing and these techniques. And I don't even know I'm doing it, but I'm just like trying to match this. What um you know, what do you tell someone like that? Like, what do you tell them to do for the next step or to you know, about their journey?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Well, for me, it it like if you if you really break down my journey or other people's journeys who've kind of made it. I think it's about um getting as good as you can at what you're doing, whatever, like knowing who you are as an artist. Like I didn't know who I was as an artist, but I kind of knew I knew the beginning of that. Like I knew what I wasn't and I knew what I was and what I could do well. And so I think it's important that they they learn how to do that well, like do what they do well and not try and be somebody they're not.

• 51:19Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Like if if you don't want to like be a dance artist, you know, like, I don't know, dress the part, you know?

• 51:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  If you want to be a dance artist, go buy some leotards right now, today. But like, you know, I don't know. I think it's about getting good at your craft and being as many places as you can be. So like, you know, putting yourself in awkward positions like contests and local shows and, you know, if you ever hear about like a local event where there's gonna be music, people there go. It's always good. And I think the biggest thing that people aren't using is the internet.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  I mean, you can tweet people, like, how did I meet you? We tweeted.

• 52:03Lewis Howes?

  Twitter.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, right? So it's like, it's not like, hey, please listen to my music and don't spam people with your like link. But like, if you really are interested in somebody and you follow them and you start to get to know a feeling of that these people, like, you can really reach out to a ton of people that way. And I mean, it doesn't even have to be like creepy. You can be really cool and and they may just happen to like, hey, that person's cool. Like, I'm gonna check them out. You know, whatever. You just never know what can happen. So I think it's about becoming really resourceful. That's the biggest deal.

• 52:38Lewis Howes?

  It's funny, you know, when I saw your message on Twitter, I can't remember, I think you'd like listened to a podcast.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, my gosh, I just discovered your podcast and I freaking loved it. I was like, it was really, really good. I loved it.

• 52:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  And so I tweeted you that and it was that.

• 52:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And I remember, so I was like, who is this person? I'd never heard of your name before. It was just like, who's this singer?

• 53:01Lewis Howes?

  Well, I was like, who is this? So, you know, like, what I usually do if I get a nice compliment, I'm like, all right, what's, who is this person? What's their website look like?

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 53:08Lewis Howes?

  To know if I know them or something. And I went to your website, and I told you this story already. I went to your website.

• 53:19Lewis Howes?

  There's a video, you know, on the page or whatever that says Crush. And so I click it and I was like, what is this like cover song?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  She sounds pretty good. She's pretty good.

• 53:31Lewis Howes?

  I was like, man, this is a really high production value cover video.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  I'm like, yeah, that video costs like half a million dollars.

• 53:37Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, man, is this the artist?

• 53:43Lewis Howes?

  I was like, I remember this song and that's how it happened. It was pretty funny for me.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  I love it. Yeah, that's funny. You're like, wow, she is really taking this cover seriously.

• 53:54Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. I was like, what is going on here? No, but it was a cool, it was a fun experience and now we're here, you know, hanging out.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  And I think that's how things happen. You know, you just like kind of put yourself on a limb. I mean, you might've thought I was a weirdo, like being like, hey, I loved your, I don't know, you know, but like.

• 54:09Lewis Howes?

  Someone compliments me, it's, you know, I'll take it.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Okay, you'll take it. All right. Good, good, good. And most people I guess would be that way too.

• 54:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  But sometimes I think as a new artist, like you, you feel like people are gonna like be, look down on you like, oh, why would I talk to you? Like, you know how it is. It's like if you respond to people, you know, who follow you, they're sometimes like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you responded to me. Right? So you realize like people all around the world, we, we all struggle with that.

• 54:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And I would say it's also tough to like, because if you are reaching out to someone who you want to get their attention with, like say there's an artist who wants to connect with you, you may get contacted constantly by young artists looking for advice or looking for you to check out their demo. Listen to my stuff. You're like, you've heard these, you know, for 15 years.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:55Lewis Howes?

  So you, I think if you're going to reach out to someone, really set yourself up to win by having some talent and backing up what you want them to like check out. Don't just like say, hey, will you check this out and give me feedback?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  No, because it's like spam. Then nobody likes that.

• 55:09Lewis Howes?

  Like be inspiring. And like give, show them something that they're like, whoa, who is this person? And I want to respond to them.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:16Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to just like, can you give me advice? I'm starting out.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 55:19Lewis Howes?

  Like research it, YouTube or Google it.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's a really good point because a lot of times people are very lazy.

• 55:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  About how they approach a situation. It's like if they just did their homework, they'd be like a million miles of, like ahead of all the others. So that's really good advice.

• 55:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, I could, I could learn about the music business from you all day, but that's why you are launching, what's it called? The Breakthrough Artist?

• 55:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:45Lewis Howes?

  The Breakthrough Artist.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  TBA.

• 55:47Lewis Howes?

  TBA. And it'll all be, it'll all be linked up on the show notes over at LewisHowes.com. So make sure to check out and subscribe to that podcast if you're an artist or if you just want to hear Jennifer sing on there or talk about-

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Interview really cool people too.

• 56:01Lewis Howes?

  An interview of celebrities and musicians.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  When you make it as a singer, I'm going to interview you.

• 56:05Lewis Howes?

  Me? Okay.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you make it, you are on my podcast.

• 56:09Lewis Howes?

  You know what I want to do?

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Tell me.

• 56:11Lewis Howes?

  I want to, I haven't learned the chords to your song, but I want to learn the chords to your song and have you sing like a line.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  That'd be fun.

• 56:17Lewis Howes?

  To crush.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Right, let's do it.

• 56:19Lewis Howes?

  After, after this, I'll record, I'll have my buddy record a video of it and I'll put it up on the show notes.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Awesome, let's do it.

• 56:25Lewis Howes?

  I'm actually terrified by saying this now because I don't like-

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Oh, we're doing it.

• 56:28Lewis Howes?

  Put my, put myself out there musically. But, uh, yeah.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  That would be fun.

• 56:33Lewis Howes?

  So, so the show notes, you'll see that, LewisHowes.com. And then also the podcast for Jennifer. And I want to ask you the last question.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:43Lewis Howes?

  Which is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Ooh, that's a good one. My definition of greatness is probably like, I think it's pretty rare, actually. Greatness is pretty rare. You might have like a great moment and I think like greatness is when like you're really in the flow and everything's coming together. And like all, you're hitting all the areas, like all at once, you know? You've got your, your family's in check, your business is in check, you know, your friendships and you maybe got some money in the bank and like you can travel and see the world and meet new people and like, I don't know, it's like most of the time we're like, you know, we're, we're struggling in one area because we're focusing maybe on another area so much or whatever.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  So it's like really hard to find that balance. But like for me greatness would be like when I'm really like all my areas are in check and I'm like really, I don't know, like kind of living my idea of like my, my potential. Like, you know, really reaching and, and, and kind of, yeah, like, I think it's a peaceful thing, you know? I think when you feel greatness, it's like this peace, peaceful feeling, you know, of like, I did it, you know, I'm doing it.

• 58:01Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:02Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. I love it. So where can we, where can we catch you online?

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Uh, I would say, um, go to JenniferPage.com. It's P-A-I-G-E. Um, and that's probably the best place because all my like social links and stuff are there.

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Also, um, everybody can download a free song if they go there.

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  Oh, snap.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Yes, it's a new one too. It's brand new.

• 58:23Lewis Howes?

  Alright.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  And it's, I really like it.

• 58:25Lewis Howes?

  Alright, we'll link up to that as well.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Awesome, perfect.

• 58:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, check out JenniferPage.com and at JenniferPage on Twitter and Instagram now, right?

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:33Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  JenniferPage Music, yep.

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  JenniferPage Music, Music on Instagram.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 58:36Lewis Howes?

  Cool, awesome. Well, I appreciate it. I, I acknowledge you for being the sweetest guest I've had on here.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. That's huge.

• 58:43Lewis Howes?

  You are an amazing human being.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  Again, we've only connected a little bit.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  It's really sweet.

• 58:48Lewis Howes?

  But, uh, you are definitely a gift.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 58:51Lewis Howes?

  To the world and extremely talented.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 58:54Lewis Howes?

  And your heart is enormous. So, thank you for

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 58:56Lewis Howes?

  everything you've created, the inspiration you've brought to this earth, the fun, the play, the romance, the harmony.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  I mean, you did make out to my song.

• 59:06Lewis Howes?

  I did make out to it.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  So, I guess there is romance. That's good.

• 59:08Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, exactly. So, I acknowledge you.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  We'll always have that.

• 59:11Lewis Howes?

  Yes, we will. But, uh, I really appreciate you coming on. Thanks, Jennifer.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. Thanks.

• 59:35Lewis Howes?

  Alright, alright, alright. I hope you guys enjoyed this one with Jennifer and make sure to go check out the show notes over at LewisHowes.com. And, uh, watch me sing a little song with Jennifer and let me know what you think. Uh, hopefully I don't embarrass myself too much. But we did like one take and we didn't even practice and Jennifer, you know, didn't know the words. So, we're all just trying to figure it out and make it happen and, uh, just had fun with it. So, um, check that out. Feel free to share this episode over on Twitter and Facebook and let your friends know about it all over the internet. Um, again, there's some quick easy share buttons that you can post with over at the show notes at LewisHowes.com.

• 1:00:17Lewis Howes?

  And make sure to check out Jennifer's stuff as well. She's got some new songs coming out. We're gonna link it all up in the show notes for you so you can have it all to you and access at your fingertips. I appreciate you guys for listening. It's a, it's a pleasure, it's an honor, and it's a privilege to be in your ears each and every week and introduce you to some of the most inspiring friends and guests that I get to have on here. And it's because of you that I get to continue to have awesome guests and awesome information to share to the world. So, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening. Thank you for promoting it, for sharing it with your friends, and for just being dedicated to stepping up in your life and getting the results you want.

• 1:01:01Lewis Howes?

  And if this can provide a little bit of inspiration for you throughout your day, throughout your week, and kind of give you that boost you want and need to take it to the next level, then I'm super happy that it does that for you. So, again, thanks so much for tuning in, and you guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.

• 1:01:38Lewis Howes?

  Give me, give me some inspiration right now before I'm going on stage from there.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Gosh, I've got nothing.

• 1:01:44Lewis Howes?

  Nothing?

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Nothing. I just like, you know, I'm just like, in the zone, I'm like, you can do this, you got this, this is gonna be so fun.

• 1:01:52Lewis Howes?

  You're just a pro.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  I don't know, just like, this is gonna be fun, do it all the way. Do it all the way, Lewis. You got this.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Nothing's true, nothing's right. So let me be alone tonight. You can't change the way I am. Are you strong enough to be my man? I believe, I promise I believe. I believe, but please don't leave. Don't leave.

• 1:03:15Speaker 03

  Is it my part?

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  Are you strong enough?

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  To be my man.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  Are you strong enough?

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  To be my man.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Are you strong enough?

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  To be my man.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  Are you strong enough?

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  To be my man.