583 Build a Billion Dollar Brand with Revolve Co-Founder Michael Mente

"IT’S ALL ABOUT SHOWING PEOPLE A GENUINELY GOOD TIME." Being an entrepreneur is one of the most difficult tasks you can take on. In fact, some people find it soul crushing if not done right. When done properly, though, it can be the greatest thing you can do in your life. Starting as an entrepreneur means knowing what you really want to do, what your passion is and how to deliver that to consumers. It’s not about pushing it on them but listening to them and seeing how you can serve them. Most entrepreneurs stop as soon as they hit success and sell off their company, but not all of them. On this episode, we are joined by Michael Mente, who has been successful since 2003 when he helped create the incredibly popular clothing company: REVOLVE. “All we are doing is listening to the consumer and giving them what they want.” Michael Mente dropped out of an Entrepreneur program at the University of Southern California to become an entrepreneur by profession. He’s Currently the CEO and Co-Founder of Revolve and is set to bring in $400 million in sales this year. His company is considered the one-stop shop for clothing items designed by some of the hottest emerging designers. Over the years, Michael began developing organic relationships with bloggers to represent the brand on a more realistic level. To do so, Revolve regularly holds trips for influencers to gather, relax, and recreate the lifestyle of an ideal Revolve customer. Michael saw a gap between affordable and high end items, which provided grounds for him to create an online shopping experience that falls in the middle. Supporting up-and-coming designers and digital influencers has become the core of Revolve’s growth and they decided to expand their digital offerings by launching a sister company, FORWARD, in 2008. Since then FORWARD has grown to become a powerhouse in fashion and has become the go-to place for premier luxury fashion. I loved Michael's humble wisdom about what it has taken to create this kind of success in such a competitive industry. Discover all of that and much more, on Episode 583. "If it’s not enjoyable, what’s the point?” Some Questions I Ask: Would you say a lot of your sales come from Instagram? (10:46) In the beginning were you buying clothes wholesale? (13:41) What were you doing before REVOLVE? (15:40) What would you say is your biggest inspiration right now? (18:12) When did you realize you had a business that would take off? (21:38) How much money did you raise from one investor? (24:54) Do you think more people should be tapping into influencers for their brand? (28:41) What’s a good way to start approaching influencer marketers and celebrities? (36:54) How do you deal with the competition of other brands? (42:00) How have you evolved from being an entrepreneur by yourself to running an organization with so many employees? (45:39) What do you still need to learn in order to take your business where you want it to be? (49:00) How have you been consistently excited about your business for 15 years? (50:42) In This Episode You Will Learn: Just how long REVOLVE has been around (8:53) What made Michael say, “I want to get into women’s clothing.” (11:41) How they launched the same year as Zappos (14:56) When he knew he wanted to start his own business (17:24) The biggest risks he’s taken (19:41) When they decided to take on investors (23:39) The point when it becomes challenging for a company to continue its growth (26:06) How an influencer trip works (33:12) The biggest challenge for Michael right now (43:55) The most influential person in Michael’s life growing up (47:00) Michael’s advice to young entrepreneurs who want to start their own thing... Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 583 with Revolve co-founder Michael Mente.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to another edition of the School of Greatness podcast. We are starting out powerfully in the new year and I am just so pumped to be here with all of you. You know, again, as I reflect back on how amazing the last year was and really where we're headed to with this podcast, almost five years of the podcast happening and it just blows my mind to reflect on what we've been building together and the movement of greatness that we're all on board with. So thank you all for again, being a part of this journey. We've got another powerful interview today. His name is Michael Mente and he's the CEO and co-founder of Revolve,

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  which is a popular online fashion retailer that's become one of the leading trendy fashion brands today. And here's what I love about it. Revolve was founded in 2003. So in a world where everyone wants to start and launch something quickly and have it sell and make millions of dollars in the first year or first few months, they've been around for a long time. Pre-social media, they've had to learn and constantly reinvent and re-evolve their brand and their audience and so many different strategies to continue to grow. Again, they've, they're getting close to a billion dollars in sales a year right now. And it's just continues to grow and grow and grow, right? And they have almost 2 million Instagram followers. They've got

• 1:56Lewis Howes?

  millions of email subscribers. They've got a large following, but one of their keys has been getting The biggest celebrities and influencers to feature their clothes and and come to their big events and parties and they are the brand and the event to go hang out at at Coachella and other big events that are happening around the world and I love the strategy behind what they do to find these partnerships with influencers and celebrities and get people to come to their events which helps their overall brand and overall sales which we're going to be talking about today is first how to build trust with your audience when you're a pioneer in your industry how do we build that trust also how to decide what and when to scale in your business

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  the best ways to build relationships with influencers so how do you get these influencers to really get excited about your brand when you're just starting out we cover that also how to deal with massive competition in your industry the online fashion space is is constantly becoming more and more competitive with every influencer now having their own brand so how do you compete with that also why balance is as necessary as work ethic in order to succeed and again as someone who's been grinding it out and hustling for over 15 years now we talk about really why balance is something that's important to Michael before we dive in want to give a shout out to the fan of the week this is from Alec Maggio who says I think I'm addicted and he left

• 3:26Lewis Howes?

  a review over on iTunes and Alex said wow I just found this podcast a week and a half ago and it's all I've been listening to since I really feel like a changed man inspirational compelling motivational and so much more you have shown me a completely new world of ideas thank you so much for what you do I now can't wait to see what life has in store this podcast is what makes me get out of bed in the mornings thank you well Alec thank you for being the fan of the week and thanks for being a big supporter now even though you just got in tune with us a week and a half ago if you guys want a chance to get shouted out on the podcast make sure to go to iTunes and leave a review or you can go on your podcast app right now on your iPhone and leave a review in

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  And we pick winners every single week to give shout outs as well. If you think you know someone in your life who could use this inspiration, this information, these tools, these strategies to help improve your life, improve your business, improve your health, your relationships, every aspect of your life, we're looking to take to the next level. That's what the movement of the School of Greatness is. How do we improve our lives on every area? So we create maximum impact, maximum fulfillment and maximum income in the process. So don't forget about that as well. I'm very excited, guys. We've got so many good things happening this year. All right, guys, I'm pumped for this episode right now. It's LewisHowes.com/583. Go ahead and take a screenshot and tag me on Instagram as you're listening to this.

• 4:58Lewis Howes?

  We've also got the full show notes and full video interview back at that link there. LewisHowes.com/583. Without further ado, this is all about building a billion dollar brand, scaling it up and the art of influencer partnerships with Revolve co-founder and CEO, Michael Mente.

• 5:25Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We have Michael Mente in the house, man. Good to see you. Super glad you're here. We got connected earlier this year. Someone mentioned me about you. I didn't know who you were until someone brought up your name. And then as I started digging in deeper, learning about you being one of the founders of Revolve, this fashion brand that's been around for 15 years now. Almost 15 years, crazy enough. Has now blown up. It seems like every big celebrity influencer on Instagram promotes you guys, is at some event. It doesn't matter who it is. It's like everyone is promoting you in the female fashion space. We were talking earlier, you're gearing up close to hitting almost a billion in gross sales, total gross sales for the, for the brand, which is. Impressive, man.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 6:10Lewis Howes?

  So congratulations.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Thank you, and thanks for having me. It's such an honor to be here.

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  Of course, man, yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Learned so much from you, from the podcast and books. So it's such a privilege to be here. Thanks for having me.

• 6:18Lewis Howes?

  Of course. And you started, I think you said, back in 2003.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:22Lewis Howes?

  Pre-social media, pre-Google.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:26Lewis Howes?

  Right? Or maybe Google was around, but it was like small.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  They were around, and they were a little smaller than Yahoo at the time. Yahoo was still actually how we learned. That was the first digital marketing we ever did was Yahoo. And they put us on the map.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  You're promoting on Yahoo, and so much has evolved in terms of like, marketing.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 6:45Lewis Howes?

  The last 10, 12, 15 years, right?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  When social media came around, early on, I remember it was Twitter was the big thing. Were you even using Twitter to promote? Or was it not even an effective platform for you guys? Because yours is more of a visual, seeing the clothes.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Exactly. For Twitter, that was one thing that like, I know so many people use it as a great tool, but I could never crack it. We could never figure it out because it just wasn't visual enough. So honestly, we missed the boat when it was the sweet spot of Facebook days. Like, we really were great in the Google days, but we didn't really quite get Facebook right. But then, when Instagram came out, that was something that, you know, where a lot of the things we were trying to do were really able to be leveraged in Instagram in that kind of like 2010 and beyond era. But there was definitely so many different phases of having to, you know, evolve and get better and stay current.

• 7:34Lewis Howes?

  Would you say a lot of your sales, gross sales, come from Instagram right now? Or is it pretty diverse?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  I think it's really diverse, and I think ultimately, all of the channels kind of interact. Where it's like, someone may see something on Instagram, but then go on, you know, Google to search for it. Or someone may, you know, Google something, but then ultimately see an ad elsewhere. We're really known for Instagram at the moment because I think, you know, a lot of the strategy is a little bit more ahead of the curve and a little bit more pioneering. We're doing a couple of different things. There are a strategy that other people are, you know, learning from, but that's just one layer, and then there's, you know, many other layers that have to be built. So it's just a stack. And I think that's, that's the thing. It's not just Instagram, boom, it's all good. It's like, there's the, you know, the fundamentals of Google, which we did, you know, back in the day, and it's still huge. I think Google's still a massive part of our budget.

• 8:24Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  And then, of course, Facebook, Instagram, email, everything.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  Email's probably where you get the direct results from. You know, when you send something out, you can see.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 8:31Lewis Howes?

  Sales coming in, obviously. What made you early on, you know, in 2003, say, "I want to get into women's clothes"?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  You know what's funny? It was purely analytical. And like in those Yahoo... Yeah, it was purely analytical. And in those days, a real good friend who's still a business partner of ours kind of showed us, you know, what the company he was working at, where you can actually see results of how many people were searching for what terms.

• 8:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  And then you could also see really transparently how much it would cost to be listed on Yahoo, you know, first or second or third. So there's this awesome transparency where we can see people are searching for this when you do the actual...

• 9:06Lewis Howes?

  Women's fashion, or shirts, or skirts, or whatever, yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then you see the results, and they're like, sometimes there'd be results where like, none of the results are selling the products. We kind of like stumbled upon it, and we realized that fashion, there was a lot of people searching for fashion brands. But the fashion world was a little bit, you know, slower to come, you know, slower to adopt technology.

• 9:24Lewis Howes?

  They were doing retail, they weren't doing online.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  They were just expecting you to come into stores or whatever, or print ads.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Print ads. It was a different world. So there was like an opportunity there.

• 9:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  We tried a lot of different things, and we were like, "Okay." A lot of quick failures, of course, in the early days. We thought, "This brand's gonna be big, this is gonna be whatever." And it was like, nothing, crickets. But then we came across, again by chance, that designer denim ended up being like very important at that time. And that was also something where people were just hearing about it, younger consumer, and it was hard to find in physical stores, or very limited supply in physical stores. And they had to go online, and that's kind of...

• 10:02Lewis Howes?

  The premium denim.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And so you saw it as an opportunity more than anything. You weren't necessarily passionate about female underwear, right?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hey, in different ways, less selling it.

• 10:14Lewis Howes?

  But you weren't like trying to say, "I want to become like the new Victoria's Secret."

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  You were just like, "Here's an opportunity that people are missing out on. This whole internet thing is taking off. There's a big opportunity, and these brands are missing out on it." But at the beginning, you didn't create your own brands, whereas now you have 12 different brands.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think 13 now.

• 10:31Lewis Howes?

  13 now. But then you were just, was it you were buying it wholesale and then selling it online? Were you drop shipping?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. It was buying wholesale, storing it in the house and then shipping it to the consumer. And I think we were very lucky again that, you know, we were in the area in Los Angeles and all the showrooms, you know, 90% of the brands we carry have showrooms in Los Angeles. So that was another, you know, aspect of luck that we stumbled upon kind of that access and did a lot of homework there.

• 10:57Lewis Howes?

  So you could find, people get them at a really cheap wholesale rate, they would trust you guys and build a relationship and...

• 11:03Speaker 01

  It was a lot of trust building. A lot of people were like, what the heck are you doing? Like, this is weird.

• 11:07Lewis Howes?

  No one was doing that.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  No, like, very, very few. Some of the department stores, you know, had kind of early websites that were kind of experimental, not necessarily as serious. So they existed. Not much. There was literally a lot of brands with like, you know, next to nothing. Or the competitors were there, were like, still quite young. They may have been like one or two years old as well. So it was kind of like early, early days.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  Which kind of like Zappos was for shoes.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Exactly. You know, Zappos was our model. There was like something that like, we did the same exact things at the same time, kind of just by observing the marketplace and we kind of weren't aware of them. But then, of course, then we started to see them blow up and become something and we had to evolve to something else.

• 11:45Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Wow. Okay. Did you guys launch the same year or were they before you guys?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  They may have launched maybe a year before us or so. Kind of the same period.

• 11:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Didn't Amazon buy them?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yes, Amazon bought them.

• 11:56Lewis Howes?

  For like a billion or something?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  I think, maybe a little, yeah, about a billion and change and that was probably right around recession time.

• 12:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. 2009 or something?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think around then. Yeah, I think I remember something about their VCs sending out a letter where they, everyone had to like buckle down.

• 12:10Lewis Howes?

  They needed to sell it. Wow.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 12:11Lewis Howes?

  Because how much were they doing in sales? Do you remember a year?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  I don't remember actually. I don't remember what the multiple, what was going on then.

• 12:19Lewis Howes?

  I wonder if they were reaching a billion in sales. You don't think they were?

• 12:22Speaker 01

  It depends on the measurement.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  What's the revenue is?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think, I remember reading the book. I don't remember the exact year, but they did, I think they did hit a billion in gross sales prior to the acquisition.

• 12:30Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Okay. Interesting.

• 12:33Lewis Howes?

  What were you doing before all of this? Weren't you in a software business or something?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, before I was lucky enough to be, you know, in college during that first dot com boom, but not lucky enough to like be out in the workforce long enough to really capitalize. So I worked at a software startup and that's where I met my business partner. The best thing that was of that whole experience, I met my business partner. This was, you know, 2000, 2001. And it was a random software startup.

• 12:57Lewis Howes?

  Right out of college?

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Right out of college.

• 12:59Lewis Howes?

  And you went to school for, as an engineer or where did you go to school?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  That's funny, I went to school to, specifically to USC because they have a great entrepreneurship program. But the funny thing is I left a year early to, you know, pursue startup work. So I never actually did the entrepreneurial program. So I was actually a finance background, a finance major.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  Cool.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  And the cool thing is that now my business partner manages all the finances and he's, so it's ironic.

• 13:23Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. So you guys met at the software company. The company didn't work out or you just were like, let's try something else?

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just like, oh, you know, 99% of the other startups of that day that were just a lot of, a lot of capital flying around and a lot of startups. And conceptually, I still, you know, I still think that it was software systems that helped manage enterprise strategy. And I think, you know, we still do it a little old school where it's like PowerPoint and Excel.

• 13:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  And like, you know, the idea of making it a little bit smoother and easier and simplified, but also with depths of data integrated. I like the concept still, but also the methodology and things. There's a lot of challenges there. And it was also that time where like selling software to corporate America was like, you know, very exciting in like the 90s.

• 14:04Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  There's a lot of big companies doing awesome things. And then now, you know, post internet era, that kind of model is a little bit different, you know?

• 14:10Lewis Howes?

  Right. Did you always know you wanted to be an entrepreneur or start your own business growing up? Or was this something through the years that you kind of developed?

• 14:18Speaker 01

  I think there was always something there. And I think it was not necessarily an entrepreneur. I think for me, the criteria was very clear is that I wanted to be in a field where like I could put as much as I can into it and get as much as, you know, I can out of it. And there was not necessarily, you know, time limitations or educational limitations or this very structured path where I can just go all in, assume some risk, which I guess is, you know, very entrepreneurial. But, you know, I thought that potentially could have happened in other paths. Like, you know, like an engineer or something like that. That was, you know, debating, you know, becoming a programmer and working in the world from that side of things. But ended up going straight to pure entrepreneurialism like out the gates.

• 14:59Lewis Howes?

  What would you say is the biggest inspiration for you guys right now?

• 15:03Lewis Howes?

  Is there a brand or a person that inspires you from what they're doing?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  You know, that's a tough one. I think, I think all my examples maybe are a little bit cliche, but super amazing, man. Like Jeff Bezos is incredible. Like, you know, the way he started his business and the way through the different, you know, changes of the world and the different opportunities, he's been able to grow and build and adapt as the world changes, sees opportunities, big opportunities and pursues them, but still has an extremely long-term, very, very ambitious goal. I think that's probably a lot of inspiration for a lot of people, but definitely someone that we look up to very much.

• 15:38Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. What about Wexner? That's Wexner from Limited Brands? Is that a guy that you're aware of?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Not super.

• 15:45Lewis Howes?

  I think he started Victoria's Secret too, I think.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Yes, I think those guys and also Ortega at Zara, you know, top five richest people in the world making clothes. It's incredible. It's incredible.

• 15:57Lewis Howes?

  From Spain? Is that what it is?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Spain, yes.

• 15:59Lewis Howes?

  Is he the top five richest?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  I think so. And the coolest thing to me is that-

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  For Zara, huh?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. They actually have multiple chains, but I think Zara is the biggest one. I don't know, like, a lot of things on a personal level, we look up to him, and since he does zero press, super low-key, and I think that my partner and I would like to do that. I don't know if you can do that in this world anymore, where people, like, you know, where the consumer really wants to know the big corporate anonymity.

• 16:22Lewis Howes?

  Who's behind the brand.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think, you know, it's a different world, or else, you know, that's, but that's something that we respect about him than the, obviously, the massive business that he's built there, so.

• 16:31Lewis Howes?

  What would you say is one of the biggest risks that you've taken that paid off and then one that hurt you the most? You've been doing this for 15 years now.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I think the biggest risk was really, you know, when we first started, because we started with just our own capital and we were caught two years out of college. So whatever we can say about it for two years was like, all right, this is what we got. Let's figure something out.

• 16:55Lewis Howes?

  Buy some clothes and promote it.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Exactly. So we probably, I mean, it doesn't sound massive, but for us, it was like the biggest bet we ever made. But to launch the website and have like our first tester selection was probably about, I think it was $16,000 specifically. And I was like, all right, let's buy $16,000 worth of clothes.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  See how this goes. Worst case, I don't know what we're gonna do. Maybe we'll recover half of it on eBay or something weird like that. And they start selling one by one somewhere or whatever. But that was kind of like that big leap of faith where it was like, the minimum amount of investment we can make, but still have a big enough test where we can see if this worked. So that was probably the biggest risk that paid off.

• 17:33Lewis Howes?

  And what happened when you guys launched it with those $16,000 worth?

• 17:37Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny, like the first few brands that we thought were gonna be awesome, didn't work. And one of the second, you know, second tier brands, which was a little bit less, you know, significantly less known, worked for us. It was like, there was like the big denim brands, and this was like a second tier denim brand. And, you know, celebrities were wearing them. It was like a little bit more culty. And that worked for us. Then I started to buy more and more and more than, because, you know, those guys were actually the only ones who would sell to us. The big brands at the time wouldn't sell to us. So we're like, we're gonna go to your competitors and see who'd be interested. And then someone believed in us or someone needed that support and needed to sell.

• 18:13Lewis Howes?

  We'll sell some clothes.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Yes, you have money, we'll take it. And it worked. And that was, you know, really, you know, what got that initial momentum. It wasn't out the gates, but it was probably like, five, six weeks in, we're like, okay, we got something now. After it was, yeah.

• 18:26Lewis Howes?

  When did you realize that you actually had a business that could continue to take off? Was it right in that moment? Was it year two and three when after like testing a bunch of stuff, we were like, oh, we have a brand that did like a million dollars in sales and now we can keep growing?

• 18:40Speaker 01

  It was early, but also maybe never in the sense that like,

• 18:43Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, like,

• 18:44Lewis Howes?

  Still today.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Still today. It takes some degree, because we've been through some challenges, some interesting times where like, in the early days, it was like, we started to sell some stuff. We started to see some consistent business. And the first standard was, I think this can support both of us living. That was like where we can like continue to work and we don't have to get jobs. And I think that was probably in, you know, the first three to six months or so. We're like, you know, we were still like, we were still probably like collecting unemployment checks, just trying to figure things out at that point. So I think fairly, you know, early on,

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  We're making a few thousand a month, like each.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Like it covers the bills, we can eat, we can, you know, we can pay the rent. And then, so that was kind of like the first level. But of course, there was still, you know, it's still very fragile. But then the company continued to grow, but then two thousand and eight, we almost went out of business.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  Because of the recession.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Recession.

• 19:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, like really, like within a two week period, sales dropped by forty percent. And we had no financial backers, it was just us. And the whole kind of industry just kind of like massive slowdown. You know, all of the, you know, department stores, everyone just discounted the whole stores at fifty percent off. And it was just a really crazy time. So even though at that point we were doing maybe forty to fifty million dollars, we were still like fighting for our lives, you know? And we had no financial backers and of course, that's when all the banks in those scary times, that's when all the money goes away.

• 20:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  So that was a challenging time too. So I think we always still have this little bit of edge of like oh seven, we thought, whoa, we're really ahead. And then oh eight, we're fighting for our lives. And I think now we still have that that scar and that fear, like, you know, like that, you know, that recession survivor mentality where it's like, gotta be very protective, you know, who knows what's gonna happen? There's always elements of risk, so we're always on our toes.

• 20:22Lewis Howes?

  That's ten years though.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:24Lewis Howes?

  Ten years from there, but you're still like, okay, let's make sure we have money for a rainy day or for whatever, right?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 20:31Lewis Howes?

  And then did you take on investors at some point?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Around nine years into the business, we took on investors. And I think that was actually one thing that a risk that we did not take that ended up being really good for us. And that from the founding to the recession, we met a lot of investors and we saw a lot of interesting things. But like, we just didn't feel like we can be partners with somebody, you know? It felt like, you know, it was exciting to be like, here's a, you know, you're twenty five, here's like a twenty million dollar check. And I think that took a lot of like discipline on our part to be like, no, we don't really want your money. We don't really partners with you. Well, we like what we have and we're gonna protect what we have because you're gonna have a different vision and values than we're gonna have. I think that was, you know, super important. But in two thousand and twelve, we'll take the meetings from time to time and we turned down, you know, a lot of different things.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  But we really felt we found someone who really understood what we were trying to do in a nuanced way. It was like a lot of the money in the times past. And I think this mistake has happened to, you know, other entrepreneurs in the fashion space. When a lot of technology investors try to build it and scale it like a technology company, but really more of a consumer brand company. And I found the right investors who we felt that understood that. And it's been great since then.

• 21:40Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  That was about, yeah, it'll be five years ago in like. Five on the dot in like 10 days.

• 21:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  It's been a good relationship.

• 21:47Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. Are you able to share how much you raised? Is that public?

• 21:50Speaker 01

  That's public, yes. It was 40 million.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  40 million from one investor or venture capital fund?

• 21:56Speaker 01

  One private equity firm. And it's like a little bit blended and blurred. And there was like, a portion of it went to the business and then a portion of it went to my partner and I. And I think that there's a number of different things where it all made sense, where after the recession, we were scared, very, very conservative, and we were leaving money on the table. We were scared to just keep putting all the money back into the business as we did for the previous nine years.

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you're scared.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Because there's no cushion. So this was the perfect situation where we can build a little bit on the side, you know, personally where we could be a lot more aggressive with the business again. And I think that mentality really, really changed the business because since then, our growth has accelerated. Since then, you know, the business has, in the past five years, the business is probably, you know, between four or five times the size. So it's been like super beneficial for both of us. And it wasn't necessary that money into the business, which of course helps, you know, that's, you know, no doubt was an important part. But it was really of the mindset of like, be aggressive again and pursue it. The opportunity is there. It's a great time to pursue things.

• 22:55Lewis Howes?

  Do you believe that it's really challenging for a company to grow past a certain point without infusing an investment of ad and media spending? Do you think it's going to be really hard unless you're investing back into the promotional side of things?

• 23:10Speaker 01

  I guess it depends on...

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  And bringing out more people?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:14Lewis Howes?

  Or can you grow with, you know, the same, a small group and continue to 2, 3, 4x every year?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  I guess it depends on how fast that growth is and like what type of a business it is.

• 23:25Lewis Howes?

  True.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like for us, dealing with physical products, like certain aspects have to grow. Like there's this portion of the business that has to grow as like the revenue grows, where just like things like... Customer service, picking and packing, things like that. But then there's, for us, there's also other organizations that don't have to grow as much. Like, this team is awesome. The company can be three, four times as big and this team can grow 10% because they're built, they're amazing, they work together well.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  They've got systems, they've got processes.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I think it really does, you know, vary. But also depending on the business, we really see that, you know, back into marketing. I guess it depends on the kind of marketing plans where it's like, if there is a good plan, I feel like we have a good plan, we're in invest mode, where we think we have something that works. But there's been periods in times past where there wasn't extra opportunity to invest the money, so we had to be a little bit more patient. Where certain channels for us, like saying, a lot of the digital channels, like, we have to be disciplined because if you want to put more money to work, it gets way less sufficient. So it's like, we're calibrated at a good level, but our brand spend, we feel, actually, the more you spend, it actually gets easier and there's definitely some scalability for it.

• 24:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  So there's these two aspects of marketing that operate, they work together, but they have like kind of different principles and different approaches and we have to separate the two.

• 24:38Lewis Howes?

  And when you mean the brand spend, you mean more of like the influencer events and things like that?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Influencer events and kind of like media and things like that versus like the digital side where it's like a little bit more functional, where it's like the Google and the Facebook and like the, you know.

• 24:52Lewis Howes?

  Now, this is something I think you guys do really well, is you've figured out a way to like curate all these top influencers, whether it be from Instagram or YouTube or just social media influencers and celebrities in general. And you do these really high-end curated events for them, right?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 25:07Lewis Howes?

  Where you'll go to different destinations, you'll create content for them, you'll give them clothes, create content, bring them together, you create a unique experience. I feel like that's one of the things that I learned about you guys early on, is something you did, because I saw your guys' brand everywhere promoted by these influencers. Now, what's the process for that? Or how much are you allowed to share of what you guys do there? And why are they effective? And do you think more people should be really tapping into influencers in general for their brand?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. This is an exciting part of the business. And I think a part that I spent a lot of time. But for us, the interesting thing is that like, it has been very organic and very long term, where we first started working with influencers, you know, in 2009, I believe.

• 25:53Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 25:53Speaker 01

  And that was before they were called influencers. So it's kind of like, it was like, they were all bloggers at the time. And that was a platform. You have to literally create your own platform to communicate with the world. And that was like, before, you know, Facebook was really core and before Instagram was so visual. So that was something that we've been developing, nurturing and evolving for many, many years. The world has continued to evolve. And as, you know, of course, we're staying very focused on how things go. So our previous experience and, you know, relationship with influencers, experimenting with blogs and such, really made a lot more sense with the rise of Instagram. So that created a good platform and centralized platform for, you know, all of our consumers as well, of like, all of the influencers to be. And as that's continued to get bigger and bigger and bigger, it's been more and more powerful. We've done some stuff where, it's funny,

• 26:38Speaker 01

  and actually, after this, I'm going to go to a meeting to think about, you know, collaborations with influencers. And the ideas are actually ideas that we tried four or five years ago and weren't as powerful, but we were a little bit ahead of the curve then. So it's been a long time spent. But I think the one thing, you know, for us that's been really key is that it has to just really be authentic and organic. I think if it was a situation where you could spend money and receive the returns, the big guy would always win. You know, the corporate guys would just be throwing money everywhere and it would work. But I think like, you know, for it to work, I think it really has to be genuine and authentic and...

• 27:13Lewis Howes?

  Unique and creative, yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. Like, the influencer really, in my opinion, really has to be a fan of the brand for it to really work versus attempt to sell something that they don't necessarily care about. Yeah. So I think that was super important.

• 27:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. When did you realize like, wow, this event was a massive success? These like, celebrity influencer...

• 27:34Speaker 01

  It's been so gradual. I think that's the benefit. And I think that's also our mentality of like... Tested a little bit, invest, you know, as minimum as possible, but enough to get a proper test and then try to scale it up. We're never too aggressive upfront. So I think, you know, a good example of this is, um, actually yesterday, the team was out in Palm Springs prepping for Coachella. And I think we're starting to get known for the biggest party at Coachella. And I think last year was incredible. I think we had massive parties, super fun, thousands of people. I think it was kind of like arrival to the actual festival, kind of unintentionally. So that was, you know, amazing. And the thing was like, it was, um, you know, we had thousands and thousands of people. It was completely free for everyone. And afterwards, like, maybe we should have charged people. But the funny thing is, it was a very humble beginning where the first Coachella

• 28:19Speaker 01

  event that we have wasn't really an event. I think it was, I believe it was 2010. And it was with just two friends who were influencers, who are still good friends to this day. We all just went and rented a house, just like friends, like everyone does. And it really started to make a little bit of sense of like, we can make this not just fun. I think next year we can make it a business marketing opportunity. So they went from two influencers, you know, my good friends, you know, Ami and Julie, who were actually going on a trip together in, I guess, only in 10 days. But then the next time we did it a little bit bigger, you know, you know, half a dozen people. Yeah, exactly. And then, and then last year, I think there was between the people that we hosted and people coming. I think it was several, I think even close to 500 or so, something crazy like that.

• 29:03Lewis Howes?

  Influencers?

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yes. So it's just crazy now.

• 29:06Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow. 500 influencers will come to an event?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  I think the key is just try to deliver something that like, we would want to go to. So we had like, you know, a mini festival. So we had like Rick Ross perform and Migos perform and, you know, Ray Shremmerd. And, you know, actually Drake ended up coming and Leo was there and Kendall was there. Kendall Jenner and like, you know, it was just like, we gotta host people, show them an authentically good time that we would want to come to. Like, that's kind of the goal. Like, would we line up to go to this party? If we don't, if we aren't here, I'm gonna be, you know, FOMO.

• 29:40Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  And I think that's kind of like the standard. And I think ultimately. Really being in the eyes of delivering something to them. And I think ultimately it comes back.

• 29:47Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah. So tell me the model of like a trip you're gonna be in. Like you're going on a trip soon. How does that model work? How many influencers will go? What do you provide for them? Is it more about like just having a good trip and experience to some exotic location? Where you've got video and photographers taking great content for them that they can use. And if they're wearing the clothes, great. Kind of how does the whole thing work? How much would it cost?

• 30:12Speaker 01

  See, I think we've developed a way where, you know, our methodology is like we can do it on different scales. So over the course of the last year, with the smaller, you know, probably the smallest one may have been, um, maybe like five or six. The biggest one will be a month in the Hamptons with like maybe 70, like, you know, every weekend for four weeks we'll do, and there'll be maybe 12 influencers per weekend. We've developed a way where it's scalable, where we don't have to do a month long thing, where we can do a three or four day, you know, event.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  So I think, so I think that's also the benefit of we've been able to, you know, figure out the nuances of that. And each time is, you know, there's core principles, but then there's a lot of things, uh, that are completely different. I think the core.

• 30:54Lewis Howes?

  Some people you're paying, other people they're getting just like swag and they're getting their trip paid for. And it depends on kind of like the level of person it is.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  There's total, total range. It really depends on the people where there's, the people that we'll work with will be literally the biggest fashion influencer on the planet. Or sometimes, you know, on one of the trips, it'll be like someone who's been working with us for many, many years is, you know, literally like 0.01% of that person, but still is just.

• 31:21Lewis Howes?

  Upcoming, in a good little community.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. So there's a whole range of people. So it's, uh, you know, entire spectrum. But really, it's just like, for us, it's, it's so cool in that like, the concept of just like living your best life. It's also this combination of what like, what do we think is awesome? Because it's probably gonna be relevant to them and it's gonna be relevant to our consumer. A mistake we always used to do was like, what would other companies do? And then when we like, you know, looked in the mirror, like, what do we really wanna do? We started like, oh, maybe we should, you know, go here and do that. Or like, you know, maybe we should go to Croatia for the summer and do this. And we're like, okay, let's try it out.

• 31:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  We built us some successes and it worked awesome. So now, now we're like, okay, what else do we wanna do? I think it is like the combination of really showing people. A genuinely good time. I think that when you see the photos, there's just a sense of fun. And like people are really enjoying themselves. And I believe it's because people really are enjoying themselves. It really shows. The visual imagery, of course, is an important part of it. It wouldn't be as exciting mixing in with just like a, you know.

• 32:25Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Shake Shack or whatever.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  But, you know, having like a very beautiful kind of aspirational, but still accessible kind of lifestyle. That's genuinely fun. And I think ultimately like the way I look back to, and of course, and this is different for everyone's brand. But I think what we sell is like a premium aspirational product that's still accessible. Something that you aspire towards and you crave, but also something that's still inclusive. That a large portion of the market can really afford. And this type of product is meant for being social in the sense that, you know, we sell all apparel categories. But really it's like that, that feeling you get when you put as a dude, like whether it's hanging out with your friends or going out to like a party or like you're going to like a really business event.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  You put on your nice shirt or jacket and then you just feel good. Or you're even just going to the gym. You're like, you got your nice gym clothes. You're like, I'm ready to work.

• 33:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  And I think that's the kind of feeling of fun and socializing that we try to capture with kind of just abroad marketing. That's what our brand is about.

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  It's great. Now, if you're, you know, there's a lot of entrepreneurs that do listen. And for those that haven't tapped into influencer marketing or celebrity marketing yet. But they, they want to tap into it. Maybe they don't have these massive budgets, but they've got a little bit of money to spend. And they may be in fashion or some other type of business. It doesn't matter. Any type of brand. How would you suggest is a good way to start approaching influencers and celebrities in order to get them to promote their brand or be a part of their brand? You know, is it through, because I get sent swag all the time and I'm like, I just throw it away. So what's the creative way that you think works for you guys?

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  That any brand, small or big, could use as like reaching out to potential influencers?

• 34:13Speaker 01

  You know, I think like that.

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  And building those relationships, because you've done an amazing job of keeping the relationships too, right?

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's, I think that's a big part of it. That's an important part.

• 34:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  But like in this day and age, it's easy to actually contact them, whether you're like DM or LinkedIn or, or, you know, whatever research you can do. So it's easy to like establish that. But I think it's like, one. There's a whole range of influencers from like, you know, super mega to like, you know, micro and local. They are powerful in their own ways. So I think it's first, finding the influencers that truly resonate with the brand, you know, understanding what, you know, your brand is about and then finding the people that really represent that. I think that, you know, it has to be real. It's not just bigger the better, you know, that more numbers the better. Of course, that's relevant, but at the same time, you also, we all have budgets and we can't just work with the biggest and massive. There's plenty of people that I would love to work with that I just feel like it would

• 35:06Speaker 01

  be, you know, financially irresponsible to do so. So I think finding the influencers.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  Like Kim Kardashian might be like way too much.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah, and it's like you can do it. It's possible. I'm sure like a lot of us can do it. Is it gonna make sense? Does she really represent the brand in that right way? Maybe there makes sense for some brands where she, you know, her personal brand is in complete alignment with, you know, the brand. But I think that has to be there. And then just approaching people as like genuine fans of her. It's like, you know, people that we work with, we really respect and admire. You know, there's people that we don't work with because they're just not a, you know, the type of people that we want to work with, but like the people that we really work with are people that we're genuine fans as well. And I think that'll come across as important, that what they're doing mirrors and reflects and is aligned with what we're trying to do. And finding those, those right people.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  I think that sense of like upfrontness of, you know, attempting to work in professionalism with that genuineness is like, I'm really a fan of what you do. I think we can do this, something awesome together. And also thinking long-term where it's not just one and done, let's, you know, can we, can you tag me or can we do this? But like, how can we work together in mutually beneficial ways that, you know, I think that's an important thing that.

• 36:17Lewis Howes?

  What can you offer them?

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Yes. And that's when, I guess that's like the best, that's the core of business, right? Where it's like, you're building greater than the parts, like together you guys are more powerful than you guys are, you know, alone, the influencer and the brand or business partners, whatever. I think that's something to always keep in mind as well. It's like, how can you support them? And if the brand alignment is there, if, you know, the brand and product or service is aligned with the influencer, then it should be quite clear that both can build together.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I'm making an assumption here. You tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you can, you can reach out to them and say, hey, we'd love to do, you know, just a free photo shoot or video shoot, a lifestyle of like just you and your day and, and we're happy to give you some of the clothes or we can just give you some great photos that you can use. Might be something that you do, I'm not even sure, but.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Totally on that level, like there's, you know, especially when it's. Very scrappy and bootstrap days. That's exactly how we'd approach things. Where it's like, we don't, you know, we definitely can't, you know, we don't have this budget. We don't even have a budget, especially when we first experimented. And I think when we did actually start working with influencers, it was zero budget. It was just like, we can't allocate money to, because this is just like, could be completely wasted. So it was like, how do we do it in ways that are effective, that will give us a conviction to put money behind it? And it was done in a very organic, low budget, kind of just like person-to-person connection.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  How can we build together?

• 37:35Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. And are you reaching out personally to these influencers? Or is it other people on your team that are kind of?

• 37:41Speaker 01

  At this point now, it's a lot of other people. I think like over the, you know, I think there's some loose numbers. I think over the past year, we may have worked with, you know, around 5,000. So it's like become a little bit more process and system oriented now.

• 37:52Lewis Howes?

  You can't do that all day yourself.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Exactly. But like a lot of, you know, majority, if not all of the people that we work with that are the most established people and the most powerful people are genuine personal relationships that we've developed over the years. Or it's like, I know, you know, just found someone and friends with their sister. Like we'll, we'll like spend time and, you know, do running together or whatever it may be.

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  And we're friends, you know, and have relationships outside, so.

• 38:17Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Now, so much has evolved in your business and the industry where you were just selling other people's clothes for the first however many years to you decided to do your own brand, right? You started to hire your own designers in-house, manufacture, you know, create your own brands. Now you have 13, I think you said.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:35Lewis Howes?

  What's the challenge been? I guess since like 2012, there's been, it seems like thousands of new brands.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  It almost seems like there's thousands of new brands every year that come out in fashion. Maybe I'm wrong here, but it just seems like tons of new brands. And then every influencer now wants to have their own brand. So how do you deal with that competition? Is that a challenge where maybe some of the influencers you've been working with and sponsoring or helping out? Now, I'm assuming some of them have their own legging lines or whatever, their own brands, is that right?

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 39:09Lewis Howes?

  How do you manage that when each influencer is now like, you know what? I'd rather not promote you anymore because I got my own brand. What's that like?

• 39:18Speaker 01

  It is dynamic and I think every situation is unique. Like, no doubt, there are so many brands coming out. And it seems like across in the fashion industry, but across everywhere.

• 39:27Lewis Howes?

  Everywhere.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Everything's so much more accessible. You know, becoming manufacturing isn't what, how challenging it was 20 years ago.

• 39:33Lewis Howes?

  It's easier to do.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  It's a little bit more commodified. So I think levels are playing field, which is amazing in many ways. Why we're able to create our own brands so powerfully is that we have the competitive advantage. Is that we have a lot of data. We can see that, oh, wow, people are really rapidly clicking on this category. And we don't have a good selection here. Let's go make some stuff. So it's not really like what the designer and the human creative is, I want to do this. It is data and opportunity, then layered in with someone who can interpret that very well. So that's why we're able to launch these brands.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  You're almost doing this, you're doing the same thing you did in 2003. You're finding what's the data, where's the opportunity, what do people want? And then you're selling them that.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:17Lewis Howes?

  You're just doing it yourself now.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  The core principle is, you're right. I didn't put that together, but the core principle is exactly the same.

• 40:23Lewis Howes?

  When people wanted premium denim, then you found the right partner. And now you're just like, oh, they want this now, let's go create it.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then now this is a more nuanced version of like, say with denim where it's like, people want this specific type of denim and we knew it. So then we created it and it's been great. But I didn't put that, that parallel there, but yeah. All we're doing is really just listening to the consumer and, and trying to understand and give them what they want.

• 40:48Lewis Howes?

  And what's the biggest challenge for you right now that you face? Is it all the competition? Is it just there's so many brands out there? Is it the influencers are now starting their own thing and they're taking their audience with them? Is it just scaling? What's the, what's the challenge for you?

• 41:06Speaker 01

  I think the real thing is that like, this isn't, hasn't always been the case. But I think that right now, we're in a position where In times past, I always would identify this as a gap that we need to fill. In times past, it was, we weren't always good at influencer marketing. So it was like, we have to figure this out. Before, we had no clue about how to make clothes, so we had to figure it out. And now, I feel like able to layer the stacks of different competencies. And I think that now the challenge is making sure they all work together and are able to grow and scale at the same time. It's a different type of challenge. And I think that's why I get so, I'm still so excited about everything. Because now that, as soon as you figure something out, there's a new challenge. And there's always opportunity for growth. We're blessed with a lot of opportunities.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  So really coordinating everyone as like a no longer scrappy startup entrepreneur. Now it's more like a little bit more of a larger company CEO kind of responsibilities of management and training and culture and integration. I think, but it's fun because my team is awesome. I think there's a lot of culture, there's a lot of camaraderie. And there's not a lot of cattiness and infighting and politics. It's like everyone is focused and everyone enjoys working with each other. So it's like, kind of like, you know, like a high functioning sports team. And we're all in it together and rolling. So it's challenging, but fun.

• 42:29Lewis Howes?

  That's great. How many employees do you have?

• 42:31Speaker 01

  I actually just got a report yesterday, so I think 749.

• 42:34Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. And how have you evolved into, again, being an entrepreneur by yourself to now running an organization with that many employees? What did that take from you?

• 42:44Speaker 01

  You know, that's the other benefit is that, you know, the fact that I have been doing this for 14, 15 years, I have had the luxury of time to grow. It wasn't like overnight, the whole world changes. Or one year later, the company explodes and I'm in a totally different space. It's been this steady, long journey. So before, it was really roll up your sleeves, figure out how to do the process, figure out how to do the work, do a lot of it yourself, and then build the process and get other people to do it and make it scalable. And then I've had to do that, my partner and I have had to do that in different areas over time where first it was website design and buying. And then later on, it became more the planning aspect of things and digital marketing. Then later on, it ended up being brand marketing.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  And later on, it ended up being manufacturing clothes. So. For me, building the different aspects and competencies of the organization took a lot of time. And then now, I do feel that the team is good, all the positions I need are there. There's a few things that we're layering in, and now it's just like the orchestra of everyone working together, which is chaotic.

• 43:48Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly. Well, who would you say is the most influential person in your life growing up? Someone who made you who you are today?

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Early on, my dad was definitely influential on me in that, in a different way, in that an Asian kind of household, and it's definitely um.

• 44:03Lewis Howes?

  You grew up in Malaysia, is that right?

• 44:05Speaker 01

  I was born in Malaysia, but grew up out over here. And I think in the Asian, at least in the culture that I grew up, it was a little bit more of like stoic mask. It was really not share your emotions. It was really that, you know, so it wasn't really through like communication and kind of like traditional, you know, teaching, but my dad.

• 44:23Lewis Howes?

  Showing affection and communicating your affection and things like that.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like really like teaching a specific lesson or really, but what he really showed me, hands down, was, you know, hard work. It was just work ethic. And that was one thing that I knew was this, it was a responsibility. And I'm, you know, happy to see that role model was like times were tough, well, the only job is in Santa Barbara. So you got to commute to Santa Barbara, right? And then work and then, oh, during that time is tough, you still have to work on the weekends, to do work on the weekends just to keep level and gotta do what you gotta do. So I think that was like, that really, really resonated. I really internalized that. And I think that to my, till this day, that really, really influenced the person I have grown up to be.

• 45:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  And I think, you know, actually, I don't know if I've ever told him that. Hope he listens and hears that.

• 45:07Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Say it to him. What about your mom? Biggest lesson she taught you?

• 45:11Speaker 01

  I think she really was able to teach me, you know, a lesson, but skill was really listening and really understanding people. Or I think it was like, you know, she is the type of person who is just like, will talk a lot, but also is always able to develop a lot of relationships with people in terms of just like having that empathy and understanding where they're coming from and how you can help people out and why people are acting a certain way and how do you build. So I think those two things together are like. The blended are kind of the foundation of why am I able to grow and succeed?

• 45:41Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. What do you think it's gonna have to take from you to still learn in order to take your business to where you want it to be?

• 45:48Speaker 01

  What do you mean by that?

• 45:49Lewis Howes?

  What do you still need to learn?

• 45:50Speaker 01

  What do I still?

• 45:51Lewis Howes?

  Or what lesson do you need to take on? Or what do you need to let go of within yourself in order for you to take your business to the next level you want it to be at?

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Well, I think the one thing that very recently I started to focus on is that that work ethic aspect was always there and it's there, but it's also like balancing that. It's like you can't be like at 10 all the time. It's and you can't push everyone to be 10 all the time. I don't think it's capable for us to succeed in the next level by just everyone outworking everyone. In the earlier days, you could, I felt like.

• 46:26Lewis Howes?

  You needed that.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's essential. Like that was like the core competency in the day one. We're like, we're two guys with nothing to do but work all day and all the energy in the world. So that was, but now to get to that next level, it can't be just like, you know, our teams are happy and I don't know if they're happy, but our teams are committed that when it's time to go, it's go time.

• 46:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  And everyone, you know, looks back like, we're gonna do this. And there's like a really sense of like, we're doing this together.

• 46:49Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  I'm trying to now, at this point, really minimize those times where everyone has to be like buckle down and duke it out and really snuck through the challenges. I think now it's really like, what's the elegant, simple way for us to accomplish the goal without burning out the team and challenging everyone and having to push everyone that to succeed just on that sheer willpower? I think it's gonna be, how do we succeed and achieve even greater results, but in an elegant, fluid way that's smoother and more enjoyable for all of us? Cause if it's not enjoyable, like what's?

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  What's the point?

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's the point?

• 47:24Lewis Howes?

  I like that. In a world where it seems like every entrepreneur wants to start a company and then sell it within three to five years.

• 47:33Lewis Howes?

  How have you been consistently excited about your business for 15 years? When it seems like you're kind of like an old business now if you're around for 15 years.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  You didn't sell yet, right?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 47:44Lewis Howes?

  So how have you stayed? And what's your advice as well? How have you stayed inspired every year? And what's your advice to younger entrepreneurs that are like, I just want to build this and sell in three years?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think it's a number of different things. I think it's really complex. I think one thing for me is that the people on our team through and through, you know, the people I work with directly or the people that I continue to meet in the organization, like there's a culture that resonates and I really enjoy it. Like I can't imagine not working with these people, you know? I think that's something there. Also, from a business perspective, we've always been fans of the long term. And I think ultimately, when you're focused on the long term, when you're executing in the present, I think that's when the big magical results can happen. I think that, you know, that was something that we, my partner and I, you know, from day one, and it's interesting, we were like 22, 23, like let's build a business we want to own forever.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  When you want to own it forever, if you ever change your mind, it's going to be very valuable versus trying to build a business that you're trying to sell. Well, if the people you're trying to sell to aren't interested, or if the world changes. I think honestly, you know, that was influenced by us coming into the workforce and the entrepreneurial kind of like community in the first recession in 2000, 2001. We were in that world where everyone was trying to build this company to sell it to so and so, or to do so and so. And it was really kind of like a short sighted kind of play. And if you can't, you know, do that, and you can't go there, the world changes, then you end up with nothing.

• 49:14Lewis Howes?

  The business collapses.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 49:16Lewis Howes?

  You get burnt out, you're bored, you're whatever.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, you know, or like the potential acquirers end up, you know, which you have no, you know, no control of, their business may evolve. So with us, we always had that long-term mentality. And I think that's to this day, I think.

• 49:30Lewis Howes?

  Smart.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  One of the rare ones who says that like, I think I want to do this forever. I think we're also just so lucky that the opportunities keep coming and coming. And I think, you know, there's a wealth of opportunities that we can pursue. And it's like really our responsibility to stay focused on what we have to do. But I could definitely see myself doing this forever as long as the opportunities for growth are still there.

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  I like it, man. So what advice would you give to young entrepreneurs who want to start their own thing? What advice would you say to them? Is there any principles you would say? Is it to build something to hold on to forever? Is it that you would want to? What else would you offer advice to?

• 50:05Speaker 01

  I think there's so many different ways. And I think there's so many, like ultimately, understanding what you want to do. Because I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with building a business and trying to sell it. You know what I mean? Certain type of businesses and opportunities may be ripe for that. And I think that might be really smart in certain zones. So I think that really aligning what your goals are with kind of what the market opportunity is and making sure that those go together. You know, whether it could be starting like the awesome donut coffee shop that's like really awesome and you're into it, you know, and you delight your customers. Is that like, you know, a success to you? Or is it like you have to scale it to be 500 locations? Nothing wrong with either of those, but it's like understanding that and ensuring that the opportunities out there really make sense.

• 50:50Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. I like it, man. This is called the three truths. We're getting to the final questions here. It's called the three truths. And this is, if it's the end of the day for you, many years from now, you've done everything you want to do in your life. Built the business you want it to be. You've achieved everything. You've made your parents proud for achieving what they want you to do, because I know that's important in the Asian community, right?

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 51:11Lewis Howes?

  You've done all those things, but for whatever reason, it's all erased. Everything's gone. And all the interviews you've done, the content you put out there is gone. So people don't have your information, your words anymore. You got a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true. The three lessons you've learned from your life that you would pass on to other people. And this is all they would have to remember you and your information by. What would you say are those three lessons or three truths?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  It's a challenge. I wish I was more prepared here. Well, I think one thing for me that's important is we're always so metric focused, you know, myself, you know, no doubt, but ultimately, the human aspect of things is super important. So it's not just the business that we built and the numbers that we achieved, which is something I think about, you know, every day, but it's also who I did it with and how they were uplifted and benefited. I think that's super important to me and to the way we go about business is that it's all of us doing this together. Everyone who's committed to what we're doing, we're committed to their lives and their happiness. And that's something I'm extremely proud of in our company. So it's like, not just what we did, but it's also...

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Who did I do it with and how did they benefit?

• 52:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's great. So that's number one?

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:27Lewis Howes?

  Okay, what's the next two?

• 52:29Speaker 01

  The other one, I think this is maybe a little bit newer lesson for me, is that you don't have to sacrifice your personal life and your health for your professional career. And I think that's something that I see a lot of people doing. I've been the guiltiest of it at so many different times, whether it's not being able to be in a good relationship because it's so secondary to the professional, or sometimes neglecting health because the professional career takes precedence. I think that's, it all goes together. I think there's a harmony when all three of those aspects come together and that's when a healthier, happier life really comes together. When you're healthy, you have great relationships and you have a thriving professional career, there's no priorities, it's all one.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  And I think that was, learned that one the hard way.

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah, yeah. Twelve years of fucking slugging it out, yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 53:21Lewis Howes?

  Okay, that's number two. And the third truth or lesson?

• 53:24Speaker 01

  The third truth or lesson? I think this is somewhat related to the second point. And if this is something that's like I'm trying to put a lot more attention to, is that the hard work and the grind and that effort, there is obviously huge value to that. But at some point, that's not the goal. And actually enjoying it is like, you know, this is super cliche, but enjoying the work, enjoying everything is more important than achieving it. It's no point of we build a business that's this big or whatever, how many billions of dollars? If I didn't enjoy the process of building it, then it was rather pointless. And I think, you know, super cliche, but also challenging to really internalize. And it's a personal challenge, I think.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  That's for me, this year was a very challenging year in terms of like professional challenges. It was a very successful year in terms of the metrics, that, you know, the goals that we've achieved. But other aspects, I think I didn't do as good of a job in that I really was a little bit too intense and focused, which detracted from my ability to enjoy it. And looking back, it should have been a more fun year. Looking back, and I really feel like I didn't really, you know, wasn't quite, you know, fully present to really enjoy. What a great year. It was really, I look back and remember. The hard work and the struggle, which is important, but it should be mixed in with that enjoyment and fun. So that's the goal this year is to maintain this intensity, but also enjoy it much, much more.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  And I think that's something which goes back to the, it's very similar to that balancing of everything.

• 54:56Lewis Howes?

  What are you committed to creating then every month to ensure you do that? How do you get to keep yourself accountable on that?

• 55:02Speaker 01

  It's the balance, I think it's going to, in terms of like prioritizing, ensuring health, and it's also so like working out and eating well. You know, the super fundamental basics, investing more into personal life. I think it's easy for me to, to just work and not, not, you know, as a single guy, just not put as much energy to, to nurture that aspect of life. And really make a little bit more, um, better planning. Like I could plan work and like I have plans, you know, that go out many years and things, but like I'm bad about planning like, how am I going to enjoy this weekend? Or can I get my friends together to go on a vacation in three months? Those are the things that are always like the best moments. I if you look back and those are the things that I type past, those are my favorite times when you're traveling with your friends.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  But at the same time, I don't even put that much energy to make those moments happen. So I think that's another thing that I'll try to do a lot better.

• 55:52Lewis Howes?

  That's great. That's great, man. Where can we connect with you online personally? Where do you like to hang out?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  I'm probably more, you know, Instagram, so at Mente. You can find me there. Drop by, say hello. I'm always excited to hear from everybody. And of course, if you're into women's clothing and men's clothing, you know, we at revolve.com is, you know, the main business. And actually, we have a designer business, higher end designers, FWRDforward.com as well. Where our men's selection there is, Louis, you gotta check it out. That's our men's selection.

• 56:20Lewis Howes?

  FWRD.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:21Lewis Howes?

  Dot com is the men's stuff.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  It's, it's men's and women's, but the men's selection is real good over there.

• 56:26Lewis Howes?

  It's not on Revolve.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  It's, there's some stuff, but Forward is really, you know,

• 56:29Lewis Howes?

  It's got the, got the good stuff.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:31Lewis Howes?

  I'm going there and picking up some stuff tonight. Awesome. Well, before I ask the final question, Mike, I want to acknowledge you for everything you've built over the last 15 years and your ability to. Be aware and recognize the things that you've struggled with. I think there's a lot of people, when they build something that big, they lose themselves and they forget to take care of their health and their personal relationships. So for your clarity and awareness around the importance of humans and your team, importance of humans in your life and your health is a great reminder for all of us. So I want to acknowledge you for that and all you've done to inspire people.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Thank you for everything, you know. We've all, you know, I have a big group of friends who, you know, we all like to, you know, help each other and you've done so, you know, your work, you know, the books and the podcasts, we've all learned so much from. And I think a lot of, you know, you know, a lot of the things that, you know, I was mentioning, I feel is because you think about it in a similar way. There's like very few sources where I can be inspired or I can learn about, you know, health, relationships and business. There's a lot of business, but it's treated separately. But I think I've learned so many times from you and from Mike, you know, my own experiences that the same things that make us weak in our personal life also are the same things that make us weak in our professional life. And I think integrating those lessons learned are things that I've really started to see as I get older versus it's usually compartmentalized.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  And I think that's, I know I see a lot of that from you and I see that, you know, from the books, I see a lot of, a lot of the challenges with masks. It's in your personal life, it's in your professional life and different ones. So it's, uh, learned so much from you, so honored and happy to be here. Thank you so much.

• 58:06Lewis Howes?

  Of course. We've got one final question, we'll let you go, and that's what's your definition of greatness?

• 58:12Speaker 01

  I think greatness comes from happiness and happiness comes from making other people happy and ultimately being your authentic self and appreciating and being happy with the person you are and the life that you have in front of you.

• 58:26Lewis Howes?

  There you go, Michael Mente, appreciate it.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Thank you, man.

• 58:28Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, brother.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Been awesome. Thank you so much.

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  This was great.

• 58:37Lewis Howes?

  The movement of greatness is strong and I continue to be inspired by all the people we bring on here. If you guys are inspired by this episode, let me know. Take a screenshot right now and tag me on your Instagram story @lewishouse. The link for this to let your friends know is lewishouse.com/583. Again, you can share it out on Twitter, on Facebook, Instagram. Just tag me and let me know so I can respond back to you and we can have a conversation over on social media. The full show notes and all the things we covered and talked about, the quotes from Michael, the video is back at lewishouse.com/583. Share it with your friends. We've got to get this message out there. We've got to let

• 59:19Lewis Howes?

  other people know that they can have that inspiration, the tools, the strategy to help them grow their business, help them grow and launch their ideas and live a bigger, better life. Again, it means the world to me that you guys continue to show up each and every week to support the School of Greatness. And my only request is that you implement and take action on at least one idea each time to improve your own life, your own business, your health, whatever the subject we're talking about, that you implement it in your life and then you share it with a friend and let them know how it impacted you and how it supported your life. That's how we continue to grow this message is by you guys taking action, seeing big results and then letting your friends know. Again, this is a free

• 1:00:02Lewis Howes?

  podcast. So again, thank you for all of your support and the link is lewishouse.com/583 for all the full show notes, the resources, the talking points, the video interview, all that good stuff. And Doug Ellis said, "If your business comes from relationships, then relationships should be your business." I want you to evaluate the relationships in your life. How are you serving people? How are you giving to them? Are you a one-sided transaction? Are you only looking for things to get out of relationships as opposed to give? Relationships are going to be the key to making this year great for you in your personal life and in your business. It's all about relationships.

• 1:00:46Lewis Howes?

  Everything we do is relationships. So I hope you guys are optimizing the ones you're in and adding new people in your life who can support your vision that you can support as well. I love you so very much. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.