Pod Insights The School of Greatness 571 From Drug Addict to Whole30 Founder: Melissa Hartwig About this episode "I FELT LIKE I HAD TO CHANGE EVERYTHING ABOUT ME AND MY LIFE TO STAY CLEAN” So many of us feel like we struggle with our weight. We search for diets and end up getting frustrated with them because the rules are hard to follow or they simply don’t work because there’s no 'one size fits all' solution. A while back I discovered a great, easy to use program called Whole30. It explains, step by step, how you can find the diet program that works for you. There’s a lot of people out there whose diet is making them sick. Maybe your friends can eat grains, but you can’t. Whole30 is designed to help you find exactly what YOU need. This system is one that felt so good I took it way past the 30-day mark. But the woman behind it is even more incredible. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript 10,839 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Lewis Howes? This is episode number 571 with number one New York Times bestselling author and creator of the Whole30, Melissa Hartwig.
0:10 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
0:35 Lewis Howes? Bernard Williams said, "Man never made any material as resilient as the human spirit." Ah, we've got a great one today with Melissa Hartwig, who is a certified sports nutritionist, who also specializes in helping people change their relationship with food and create lifelong healthy habits. She is the co-creator of the original Whole30 program, a four-time New York Times bestselling author, and she has been featured by Dr. Oz, Good Morning America, The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Details Shape Outside Self, and ranked number 27 on the greatest top 100 most influential people in health and fitness in 2017.
1:16 Lewis Howes? She has also presented more than 150 health and nutrition seminars worldwide and is a prominent keynote speaker on social media and branding, health trends, and entrepreneurship. And her new book, The Whole30 Day by Day, Your Daily Guide to Whole30 Success, is out now. Now, this book has been transformational for my life and all the people that have gone through this program with me. It's been blowing my mind, the results they're getting. So make sure you guys check that out. And what we cover today are Melissa's journey into and out of drug addiction and how she got clean. Also, how a growth mindset can help you let go of bad, negative, toxic habits.
1:58 Lewis Howes? The experience of doing a book tour with her ex-husband while they were separated and no one even knew what that was like. This was an interesting conversation. Also, the healthy way to get through a breakup. Even when it's not a marriage, but also if it is a marriage. And also what works to build a successful, connected online community. Melissa's built a massive community online of raving fans that buy anything that she sells. So this is a powerful one, guys, and make sure to share with your friends. Take a screenshot right now and post it on your Instagram story. LewisHowes.com/571. Link that up and tag Melissa Hartwig to let both of us know that you're listening. So we can connect you over on Instagram or Twitter.
2:42 Lewis Howes? Once again, I'm very excited about our guest today. It's none other than the one and only Melissa Hartwig.
2:53 Lewis Howes? Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We have Melissa Hartwig in the house. Good to see you.
2:57 Speaker 01 So good to see you too. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.
3:00 Lewis Howes? You're my first interview that I've done in a few weeks because I've been on my book tour.
3:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:05 Lewis Howes? So I'm finally back home in the studio. It feels good to be back and connecting with someone. So I'm very excited about this because you're the co-creator of Whole30 Program.
3:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:14 Lewis Howes? Which I started, I think, a year ago. Maybe, I can't remember if it was a year ago, eight months ago. My girlfriend Jen told me we should check this out. And I was like, man, I have to give up so much, right? But I did, and I looked the best and felt the best I've ever felt.
3:30 Speaker 01 Oh, good.
3:31 Lewis Howes? I remember taking, having a photo shoot like a week and a half into it. And these photos were, you know, I just looked so lean and healthy and clear. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. And I remember when I went to Whole Foods to look for foods, I saw Whole30 stamped on the bacon that we were just talking about.
3:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:47 Lewis Howes? And I was like, wow, this person has really created something. If the food industry is getting behind it and putting labels on their food and the packaging. So congrats on everything.
3:57 Speaker 01 Thank you.
3:57 Lewis Howes? You've sold what, 2 million copies? Or no, million copies?
4:00 Speaker 01 Just a million. You can put it out there though.
4:01 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you'll get to 2 million. You sold 2 million, a million copies in two years is what I meant to say. And you've got a new book coming out called The Whole30 Day by Day. Your Daily Guide to Whole30 Success. Now, how is that different than The Whole30?
4:15 Speaker 01 So The Whole30 is kind of like your go-to practical application, how to do the program. So for people who want to go in and they need all the help that they can get with planning and preparing, we teach them how to cook. So like how to grill a chicken breast, how to roast some vegetables, all the basics, and then give them a bunch of recipes. So it's kind of like your step-by-step, like this is how to do the program.
4:36 Lewis Howes? In Whole30.
4:36 Speaker 01 Exactly, yeah. But what I've learned along the way with like watching hundreds of thousands of people go through it is that people want as much help as they can get, especially around food, because food is so emotional.
4:47 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
4:48 Speaker 01 So Whole30 Day by Day is essentially the last two and a half years of me watching people go through the program, observing what they experience on any given day, and figuring out how to support them on that specific day. So it's like part field manual, part guided reflection. It's motivation and support and tips and tricks and habit and a little habit research and a testimonial related to that day for all 30 days of the program. And then there's some guided reflection, because the more closely connected you stay to the process, the better chance you have of making that habit stick.
5:18 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
5:19 Speaker 01 So it's kind of like your field manual, your companion to Whole30 book.
5:23 Lewis Howes? Got it. Now, you started this program in 2009, correct?
5:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:26 Lewis Howes? But why did you wait, you know, six years to come out with a book?
5:30 Speaker 01 Well, the first book, It Starts With Food, came out in 2012.
5:33 Lewis Howes? Got it.
5:33 Speaker 01 So three years, and It Starts With Food is kind of like the science behind the program, the why. So if you're a Gretchen Rubin questionnaire and you want to know why you're doing what you're doing and have to understand the science behind it, that's the book you start with. But it took three years for that book to come out because we were just making the program good and like wanted to get it in people's hands and see how it did and see how we could support them and just like, we weren't thinking about selling books. We were just thinking about how many people can we reach?
6:01 Lewis Howes? Could you help people?
6:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:02 Lewis Howes? Yeah, interesting.
6:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:03 Lewis Howes? And then you decided to come out with Whole30.
6:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:06 Lewis Howes? Why did you come out with the book at that time?
6:07 Speaker 01 So 2012, we wrote It Starts With Food. It explained a bit about the Whole30, how to do the program, some of the science behind it, and we were like, cool, okay, phew.
6:15 Lewis Howes? We're done.
6:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, nobody's going to need, this is it, you can do the Whole30, and we're going to be able to talk about other stuff. You know, we can talk about exercise, we can talk about sleep, whatever we're interested in. And then everyone who read It Starts With Food was like, this is awesome, I love knowing the science.
6:28 Lewis Howes? But I liked this one chapter of the Whole30, can you tell us more?
6:30 Speaker 01 Yes, how do I actually do the program? And we were like, oh, people need way more information. So that's where, like, everything I've ever written is because the community has said, I need this to be successful. And I'm like, okay, I can write that for you, cool. So that's where the Whole30 came from, was people saying like, okay, cool, but tell me exactly what to do.
6:46 Lewis Howes? Right. Now, did you expect it to be as big as it is?
6:49 Speaker 01 No, of course not.
6:50 Lewis Howes? You're like, people are gonna love this. It's gonna be amazing. It's gonna be bigger than paleo.
6:53 Speaker 01 Oh goodness, no. I mean, I knew it was a good program because we had a lot of people coming back reporting really similar remarkable results and I had remarkable results. So I knew it was good, but no, of course not. You never think about writing a book or having it grow or seeing your logo on bacon and Whole Foods.
7:11 Lewis Howes? Crazy, right? How many, how many food products is your logo on that you're aware of?
7:15 Speaker 01 I feel like we have about maybe 70 or 80 Whole30 approved partners.
7:19 Lewis Howes? No way. That have your, your logo on their food.
7:22 Speaker 01 It's really crazy. Yeah, we're, you're gonna see it in.
7:26 Lewis Howes? Seventy partners.
7:27 Speaker 01 Uh, yeah.
7:28 Lewis Howes? On packaging.
7:29 Speaker 01 So now I don't think everyone has it on their packaging, but yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got some big brands in the works. Like, and we're really selective about who we choose to partner with too. Really selective.
7:38 Lewis Howes? Now, do they reach out to you or do you reach out to them?
7:40 Speaker 01 They reach out to us always.
7:41 Lewis Howes? And they say, can we partner with you and say this is Whole30 approved?
7:44 Speaker 01 Yes. Yeah.
7:45 Lewis Howes? Is it because they're getting requests, so many requests online or in their service box? It's like, hey, is this Whole30 approved?
7:51 Speaker 01 I think so. We're working with a really big brand right now who just reformulated their bacon. So that it was no sugar added. And I outreach to them and said like, did you do this with Whole30 in mind? And they were like, yeah, we want to partner with you. And like, it's in the works. It'll probably be out in January. Yeah. It's like, we're changing things.
8:08 Lewis Howes? And I wonder if people are buying those products more.
8:11 Speaker 01 Oh, yes, of course they are.
8:12 Lewis Howes? Like, oh, I can't have these other things. I can only have this.
8:14 Speaker 01 Because here's the thing, Whole30 is kind of lowest common denominator. If you're paleo, if you're primal, if you're gluten free, if you're dairy free, if it's got a Whole30 label on it, you know you can eat it. So it's sort of like, you know, you get that stamp of approval and it opens up that food to a variety of different populations. Not just people on the Whole30.
8:30 Lewis Howes? Wow.
8:30 Speaker 01 So, yeah.
8:32 Lewis Howes? Now, why did you get into this in the first place?
8:34 Speaker 01 That's a very.
8:35 Lewis Howes? Just a search for food and like healthy living?
8:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:38 Lewis Howes? In the first place?
8:38 Speaker 01 Well, okay, I wasn't always super healthy and I kind of came to fitness and health when I got out of rehab for drug addiction.
8:47 Lewis Howes? Okay.
8:47 Speaker 01 So I spent my college years basically high for about four and a half years and.
8:53 Lewis Howes? What type of high?
8:54 Speaker 01 You know, I was an equal opportunity user.
8:57 Lewis Howes? Anything.
8:57 Speaker 01 I didn't have a drug of choice, which I think is unusual, according to my rehab intake counselor. I only dated drug dealers for like three years and they had access to a lot of things. And so I basically like did everything I could get my hands on.
9:09 Lewis Howes? Where'd you go to school?
9:10 Speaker 01 I got really lucky. University of New Hampshire.
9:12 Lewis Howes? A lot of drug dealers up in New Hampshire, huh?
9:14 Speaker 01 I mean, there are drug dealers everywhere and I could find them if, if, yeah, wherever I was.
9:18 Lewis Howes? What was the, the draw to dating drug dealers?
9:22 Speaker 01 When I found drugs, it was like the thing I was missing or looking for to help me sort of run away from some stuff that I like wasn't dealing with. And having access to that all the time just basically kept me oblivious.
9:36 Lewis Howes? What were those things you were running from?
9:38 Speaker 01 It all started when I was a teenager and experienced some sexual abuse by someone who was really close to me. And it was a lot of like manipulation and I was really, it was my first experience with sex. And I was really young and it was someone I was supposed to be like trustworthy and I didn't tell anyone for a really long time. And when I finally started telling people, they didn't handle it super well and I felt really abandoned. Yeah, it's this whole big, long thing.
10:05 Lewis Howes? What did, how did they not handle it well? They just made you wrong or?
10:08 Speaker 01 A little bit. I feel like some of the people who were the closest to me, who should have taken care of me, were so overwhelmed by what to do with this information that they just chose to pretend it didn't exist, which left me feeling really abandoned. And so I was very young. I wasn't self-aware at all. I didn't really know what to do with this information. And so I was looking for something to like not keep me here.
10:33 Lewis Howes? Recover and yeah.
10:35 Speaker 01 And I tried drinking and that didn't work. I didn't like it. I tried not controlling other things in my life. And when I found drugs, I was like, oh, okay, cool.
10:44 Lewis Howes? You feel better.
10:44 Speaker 01 This is what I do now. Yeah.
10:45 Lewis Howes? Wow. So when did you start? When you were like seventeen, eighteen?
10:48 Speaker 01 No, I didn't tell anyone about the abuse until I was about eighteen.
10:51 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
10:51 Speaker 01 And I didn't start taking drugs until my freshman year of college. So it was about nineteen and then I picked it up fast.
10:56 Lewis Howes? What gave you the courage to even tell someone? Cause I never had the courage to tell anyone.
11:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, I've read your story. Um, it was necessity. This was a person who was in my life. He was very close with my family. And
11:08 Lewis Howes? Wasn't a family member, but a close family.
11:09 Speaker 01 Was a family member.
11:10 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
11:11 Speaker 01 He would just continue to act like nothing was wrong and I would be expected to just like continue to do things. And he showed up at my house one day to pick me up to go for a drive. And I basically freaked out and told my dad was home and I told my dad.
11:22 Lewis Howes? No way.
11:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, I just, I couldn't, um.
11:24 Lewis Howes? With him there?
11:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, or I don't remember if he was there or if I sent him away, but basically I had like this giant freak out and then kind of told and then it was this whole big mess.
11:33 Lewis Howes? Your dad was like, close to this person probably.
11:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, my dad, um, yeah, my dad almost killed him.
11:37 Lewis Howes? No way.
11:38 Speaker 01 I mean, it was, yeah, right?
11:40 Lewis Howes? Well, how did that make you feel? When he kind of stood up for you that way or no?
11:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, I didn't, I was, you know, it's funny because I've had conversations with my dad after the fact and it's interesting reconciling what I remember as a teenager with hearing his story now. I'm almost seeing it from two different viewpoints, like 16 year old Melissa and adult Melissa. And I think at the time I didn't realize kind of what was going on behind the scenes with how my parents were choosing to handle it and stuff. All I knew was that like something went horribly wrong and I didn't know what to think about it and I didn't know how to handle it. And it was probably my fault in some way.
12:15 Lewis Howes? Mine.
12:15 Speaker 01 And so I don't think I was even aware of how it was being handled. I just know I felt really like lost.
12:22 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
12:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:23 Lewis Howes? Wow.
12:24 Speaker 01 I've literally never talked about that before.
12:26 Lewis Howes? Wow. Were you able to talk about it more with your dad or was he just kind of like?
12:30 Speaker 01 Yep, yep. I talk with him quite a bit about it now, very openly, and I feel really good about it. He's been incredibly supportive.
12:36 Lewis Howes? That's good.
12:36 Speaker 01 Yes, it's really good.
12:38 Lewis Howes? But other people in your family weren't supporting you is what you're saying?
12:41 Speaker 01 Family dynamics are really hard. I'll just be diplomatic about that. And it can be really hard. When you take a look at something like that, when you really look at it, you have to accept a whole lot of information about what was going on at that time and the way you reacted and, and the truths that you learned as a kid and like, it's complicated. I will say, everyone did the best they could. I truly believe that. I really think they did the best they could. And I'm a parent now and I think about how I would handle that situation and like, you just don't know, you know?
13:10 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it's crazy.
13:11 Speaker 01 It's unfathomable.
13:11 Lewis Howes? It's crazy, right?
13:12 Speaker 01 It is.
13:13 Lewis Howes? One of four women, one of six men.
13:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:15 Lewis Howes? Sexually abused, yeah.
13:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:16 Lewis Howes? It's crazy.
13:17 Speaker 01 It is.
13:17 Lewis Howes? I feel like, I was having a conversation the other day with someone who said that they will never have like a babysitter. They're only gonna have like, you know, the grandmother or like a family member. But even then, it's like, who knows?
13:31 Speaker 01 No.
13:32 Lewis Howes? You never know.
13:33 Speaker 01 I know, you never know. And that's the hardest part, right? I don't expect anyone to have been able to like, you can't see something like this coming.
13:40 Lewis Howes? No.
13:40 Speaker 01 You know, right after that event, I became kind of a wild child. Like, I was a good kid. I studied super hard, got straight A's, was like, read my books and like, did what I was supposed to do. And then things kind of started going wrong. I was sneaking out of the house and lying to my parents. And like, in retrospect, if I have a kid and something like that happens, you have to ask, like, why the shift?
13:57 Lewis Howes? Right. What's happening?
13:59 Speaker 01 Yeah. But again, hindsight, right?
14:00 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
14:01 Speaker 01 Hindsight. People, they did the best they could with, with what they had.
14:04 Lewis Howes? Wow. Okay. So you went off to school, you found drugs.
14:07 Speaker 01 Yep.
14:07 Lewis Howes? Felt the feeling you were looking for.
14:09 Speaker 01 Yep.
14:09 Lewis Howes? And when did the drugs, when did you realize like, oh, I have a problem? Or this isn't working for me, or this is not what I want to do anymore?
14:16 Speaker 01 Yeah. You do this thing to take you away from this other thing.
14:19 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
14:20 Speaker 01 Because this is a problem.
14:21 Lewis Howes? Addiction to another addiction.
14:21 Speaker 01 Yep. And then this thing becomes a problem. And then you're like, oh crap, now I have two problems, right? So, you know, I ended up having to drop out of school because I wasn't doing well. I moved down to Virginia to live with my dad for a little while, until my behavior down there became so erratic, because I found a drug dealer in Virginia too.
14:36 Lewis Howes? No way.
14:36 Speaker 01 Of course I did.
14:37 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
14:38 Speaker 01 And my behavior down there became very erratic. So I moved back home with my mom and I kind of ping ponged around. And my mom had a new husband at the time who was like, you know, your daughter's on drugs, right? My mom has no experience with this and was like, no way, that can't be possible, you know? And eventually the wheels started to come off my bus in a pretty serious way. And I had a boyfriend I was living with at the time, who, bless him.
14:58 Lewis Howes? Drug dealer?
14:59 Speaker 01 Nope. Not a drug dealer. The like guy that I picked up, the good guy. The like good guy.
15:04 Lewis Howes? You made him wrong for everything, probably, didn't you?
15:06 Speaker 01 I, I don't think I took very good care of him at the end. I don't think so. But he took good care of me. And there was one night where he just said to me, like, you need, I'm going to get you help tonight, or I'm leaving.
15:17 Lewis Howes? Wow.
15:17 Speaker 01 And he did. He called and they had a bed for me. And we literally went, like, in an hour, I was in their rehab facility.
15:23 Lewis Howes? Wow.
15:23 Speaker 01 I know.
15:24 Lewis Howes? Nice of him.
15:25 Speaker 01 My favorite ex-boyfriend.
15:26 Lewis Howes? That's great.
15:27 Speaker 01 I do, yeah.
15:27 Lewis Howes? That's great.
15:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
15:28 Lewis Howes? Glad he stood for you.
15:29 Speaker 01 Me too.
15:30 Lewis Howes? And then what happened after that?
15:31 Speaker 01 Went to rehab, got clean.
15:33 Lewis Howes? How long did that take, like thirty days?
15:35 Speaker 01 You're like inpatient for four weeks and then outpatient for a month or two. I had started working with a really great therapist who I worked with until like two or three years ago, like we're talking, you know, many, many years of me working with this guy who really helped me kind of get through like the abuse and like unpack all of that stuff. Was clean for a year and then relapsed for a month or so and then pulled myself out of my hole. Said, okay.
15:59 Lewis Howes? By yourself?
15:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
16:00 Lewis Howes? You realized like, oh, this isn't working.
16:01 Speaker 01 This is not okay.
16:03 Lewis Howes? What type of drugs are we talking here?
16:04 Speaker 01 I did a lot of, uh, I never shot up and I never smoked crack. Those were the two.
16:10 Lewis Howes? Got it.
16:11 Speaker 01 I did a lot of heroin. I did a lot of ecstasy. I did a lot of hallucinogens. I smoked a lot of pot, like a lot of pills.
16:16 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
16:17 Speaker 01 Basically whatever.
16:18 Lewis Howes? Yeah, okay.
16:19 Speaker 01 But it was when I got clean for the final time, which was like two thousand, that I found fitness.
16:25 Lewis Howes? Really?
16:26 Speaker 01 And yeah.
16:26 Lewis Howes? That became your new addiction.
16:27 Speaker 01 And.
16:28 Lewis Howes? Healthy addiction, right?
16:29 Speaker 01 Maybe for a little while, like over exercise, but that modulated itself really quickly. Yeah, I, I just, I felt like I had to change everything about me and my life to stay clean.
16:41 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
16:41 Speaker 01 I had to get new friends. I got rid of clothes. I stopped listening to certain music. I moved, I started going to the gym. I made new girlfriends who like, my goal was basically for me to tell people about my addiction story and have them be like, what? That, I can't picture that. Like that was what I wanted was to remove myself so far from that situation.
16:58 Lewis Howes? You changed your entire environment and everything you did.
17:01 Speaker 01 I did.
17:01 Lewis Howes? That's great.
17:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, growth mindset, right? I didn't know it at the time, but that's what I was doing. I was embracing like this massive growth mindset.
17:08 Lewis Howes? This is two thousand.
17:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:09 Lewis Howes? So you got into fitness and then nutrition.
17:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:12 Lewis Howes? And when did you start to feel like, okay, I'm back on track to a normal lifestyle or like a fulfilling lifestyle?
17:18 Speaker 01 I don't know that it was ever a moment. I just know that the farther along I got, the more I felt really settled in my new life, the more I felt like I had really good coping mechanisms. I still have some buffers in place still.
17:31 Lewis Howes? What does that mean?
17:32 Speaker 01 I'm eighteen years from. Using drugs, right? I'm almost eighteen years clean and I still won't keep narcotics in my house. So when I had my son, I had an emergency C-section and they gave me pain pills and I gave them to his dad and I said, you keep these, you don't tell me where they are, you only give them to me if you think I need them, right? Protective, just protective.
17:50 Lewis Howes? Otherwise you can go right back into.
17:52 Speaker 01 I just want to create as much of a buffer between me and that behavior as possible.
17:56 Lewis Howes? That's smart.
17:56 Speaker 01 But there was definitely a point where I was like, okay, I'm definitely a new person. I can't imagine, no matter how like bad or crazy things get, that I would go back to that.
18:03 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm. Wow.
18:05 Speaker 01 And it took a few years.
18:06 Lewis Howes? Yeah, okay. And so then you became a nutritionist, right?
18:10 Speaker 01 Yes, sports nutritionist. I had a, I was running a CrossFit gym. I was traveling with CrossFit, coaching people in kettlebells.
18:17 Lewis Howes? So you got into this before CrossFit was big, right? You were kind of like.
18:20 Speaker 01 Kind of in the beginning, yeah, two thousand five, two thousand six, earlier stages.
18:23 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
18:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:24 Lewis Howes? Wow. A friend of mine that I played college football with won the CrossFit Games. I think it's two thousand eight or two thousand nine.
18:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:31 Lewis Howes? Graham Holmberg, I don't know if you know that name.
18:32 Speaker 01 Oh, I don't know him, yeah.
18:33 Lewis Howes? He was the guy before Rich Froning.
18:35 Speaker 01 Yes.
18:35 Lewis Howes? Went on to win like how many in a row?
18:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:38 Lewis Howes? So you got in early into that community and you created a CrossFit gym. You must have been one of the first CrossFit gyms, right?
18:44 Speaker 01 I was like the second one in New Hampshire.
18:45 Lewis Howes? No way.
18:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:48 Lewis Howes? And after you became a sports nutritionist, were you trying to get clients as a sports nutritionist or was it more the gym thing or what was the?
18:55 Speaker 01 I was just doing it part-time. I had like a nine to five job that I really liked that I was like, I had gone back to college. I got my bachelor's and I was working in this nine to five job that I loved and I was advancing and like doing really well there. And I was just doing this like gym stuff on the side.
19:07 Lewis Howes? Really?
19:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was training clients, which I loved. I was doing some nutrition consulting, like very casually, just based on my own experience and some of the research I was doing. Rob Wolf was kind of a mentor of mine. So when he had.
19:19 Lewis Howes? Big in the cardio world, right?
19:19 Speaker 01 Yeah. So when he had overflow clients, he'd kind of send them my way and I was working with them. It was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I learned a lot. And then I figured out the more I was doing with them with nutrition, the better results they got in the gym.
19:31 Lewis Howes? Right.
19:31 Speaker 01 And my kind of area of interest was like working with women in nutrition, specifically telling women it was okay for them to like eat more.
19:38 Lewis Howes? Uh huh.
19:38 Speaker 01 Which was, I think, a new concept for a lot of them, even in the CrossFit world at that point.
19:43 Lewis Howes? Eat more, but certain things, right?
19:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. Like you don't have to, you don't have to starve yourself.
19:47 Lewis Howes? Yeah, when I was on Whole30, I was eating pretty much every, anything, all the time.
19:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:51 Lewis Howes? Cause I was. Missing out on sugar.
19:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:55 Lewis Howes? Give me an apple and almond butter. I was like dying.
19:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, that's that emotional relationship that I discovered really early on, too.
20:01 Lewis Howes? That's crazy.
20:02 Speaker 01 So critical, yeah.
20:03 Lewis Howes? Yeah, but then after a while, you start to like not need it as much.
20:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:06 Lewis Howes? At the end of the thirty day, I actually went, I think I went forty five days. I was trying to go after thirty days of doing it, I was like, I'm gonna do another thirty.
20:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:13 Lewis Howes? And I did forty five, and then I kind of like started to cheat a little, and then I was like, alright.
20:17 Speaker 01 Sure.
20:17 Lewis Howes? But it was amazing, and it felt amazing.
20:19 Speaker 01 I'm glad.
20:20 Lewis Howes? Now, do you stay whole thirty, twenty four seven, three sixty five, or is this just like?
20:24 Speaker 01 Of course not.
20:25 Lewis Howes? No.
20:25 Speaker 01 That's not the point.
20:26 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
20:26 Speaker 01 I don't.
20:27 Lewis Howes? What is the point?
20:27 Speaker 01 So, we talk about the whole thirty and then living your food freedom, right? And food freedom is not me telling you what to eat three hundred and sixty five days a year. There is no one size fits all diet. And all the exercise and diet gurus say this, right? Oh, there's no one size fits all, you have to figure it out for yourself. And then people are like, cool, how do I figure it out? And the whole thirty is how you figure it out. It's you eliminate, you reintroduce.
20:50 Lewis Howes? You start to bring little things back.
20:51 Speaker 01 You compare your experience, and then based on what you've learned, you get to decide what's worth it for you in life after. And that's how you create the perfect diet for you, so that's what I've done.
21:01 Lewis Howes? Wow.
21:01 Speaker 01 There's stuff that I bring back in on a really regular basis, rice in my sushi, no big deal, hummus, no big deal, the occasional like glass of white wine, no big deal. And then there's stuff that I never eat because I know it messes me up so bad that it's just not worth it. And then there's like in between, goat cheese.
21:15 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
21:16 Speaker 01 It's like the worst for me, for some reason, it makes my stomach so unhappy.
21:19 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
21:20 Speaker 01 I know, but I don't miss it because it makes me feel like junk.
21:22 Lewis Howes? When I came back off the whole thirty, I did, I had like a thing of hummus, and man, it messed me up.
21:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, hummus can do that.
21:27 Lewis Howes? But I think maybe because I had like, I was like, well, maybe because I had the whole jug of hummus, and so maybe that's why, or maybe it was like the pita bread that I had, I don't know, like.
21:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:35 Lewis Howes? Combination of everything, and maybe it's because I'm an empty stomach, like.
21:38 Speaker 01 Yes, and this is why reintroduction is so carefully structured, because we want you to learn as much as you can from the experiment, right? Bring stuff back in really carefully and deliberately and figure out, you know, that way you're not asking yourself, is it the hummus or is the pita bread? You know for sure.
21:50 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
21:51 Speaker 01 And I kind of.
21:52 Lewis Howes? I do it the best way, but yeah.
21:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's fine. It's fine. There are always opportunities.
21:56 Lewis Howes? But the thing is, like, so many people I talk to who go on the Whole30 get great results. You know, and it becomes a conversation. It's like a thing you can do together with friends. Me and my girlfriend did it together. My entertainment lawyer did it, and he got great results, and then just keep spreading.
22:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:10 Lewis Howes? Which is amazing.
22:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:11 Lewis Howes? I feel like this is different. There's so many diet books out there, or like nutrition books out there.
22:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:16 Lewis Howes? But I feel like this is one that's really sustainable for people, where the people get great results and they can always come back to. Because it is like, just the whole foods.
22:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:24 Lewis Howes? It's like vegetables.
22:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:26 Lewis Howes? And meat.
22:27 Speaker 01 It's really easy. All you're doing is like picking from the shopping list.
22:32 Lewis Howes? Yes.
22:32 Speaker 01 And you're not counting calories, and you're not tracking, and you're not weighing, and you're not measuring, and here are like a thousand recipes you can pick from, and you can just put ingredient meals together if you want. Like, once you get the hang of it, it's actually pretty easy.
22:42 Lewis Howes? Yes. Now, I want to ask about, because you started this with your ex-husband.
22:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:46 Lewis Howes? You started this program.
22:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:49 Lewis Howes? Was it your idea? Was it his idea? Was it?
22:51 Speaker 01 I mean, he was the one who suggested it in the first place. He's a physical therapist. He had been doing some research into dietary factors that impact rheumatoid arthritis, because his little sister had RA.
23:01 Lewis Howes? Got it.
23:01 Speaker 01 And came across a paper from Lauren Cordain, who's like the paleo OG about lectins and certain foods. And as a physical therapist, he had had this shoulder injury that he just could not heal. And he removed some of these foods from his diet, and his shoulder pain cleared up miraculously, and never returned, which really got his attention. And then we...
23:21 Lewis Howes? What were his foods?
23:22 Speaker 01 He was eating a lot of beans, he was eating a lot of oatmeal, he was eating a lot of like grains, and that was the stuff he pulled out, and his shoulder pain got better.
23:29 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
23:29 Speaker 01 So when we went to...
23:30 Lewis Howes? Some people aren't affected by that, right? They're not affected by the grains or the oats.
23:34 Speaker 01 Yeah. It affects different people in different ways to various degrees. And like you said...
23:38 Lewis Howes? Probably at different stages of your life, too.
23:40 Speaker 01 That also could be it, right? If you're experiencing a lot of life stress, and you're chronically underslept and overtrained, then maybe those factors have more, right? This is the whole point of self-experimentation, because there's no one-size-fits-all. So we had gone to a seminar that Rob will forgive, where he was talking about paleo, which was what Dallas had researched. And Rob was like, you know, just try it for 30 days. And that's basically what Dallas proposed to me. We were doing this really heavy Olympic lifting session, and we were sitting around afterward, and I was eating thin mints. I remember specifically, like, thin mints right out of the sleeves.
24:08 Lewis Howes? I could have a whole box of thin mints. So good.
24:11 Speaker 01 And he was like, we should do this like 30-day squeaky clean. And the thing that made me a really good drug addict also makes me really good at like taking on new habits, because I was like, okay, when do you want to start? And he's like, now. And I literally handed the Thin Mints to my friend Zach and I was like, cool, let's go.
24:25 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
24:25 Speaker 01 And we did.
24:26 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
24:26 Speaker 01 And that was the start of the very first Whole30.
24:29 Lewis Howes? And did you have it all figured out? Like, we're not gonna have this, this, and this? Or it was kind of?
24:33 Speaker 01 It was really loosely based on the framework of a paleo diet, but when I went back, so I blogged about it on my like, personal training blog back in 2009. And when I go back and read, it was super loosey goosey, right? Like, don't eat this, try to eat less sugar. Like, it wasn't anywhere near.
24:47 Lewis Howes? There was some oils in there, there was.
24:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, it wasn't super well-defined.
24:49 Lewis Howes? But it still got great results, it sounds like.
24:51 Speaker 01 It did. It got, I got incredible results. And like, but different results than what he, he, his was more mostly physical. Mine were mostly like helping me identify a really unhealthy emotional relationship with food and helping me change that in a really permanent and profound way.
25:05 Lewis Howes? Because I feel like when we have a structure, when we have guidelines, then we can be creative within those guidelines.
25:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:12 Lewis Howes? In life and with food.
25:13 Speaker 01 I like that, yeah.
25:14 Lewis Howes? You know, as an artist, sometimes we're just like, okay, paint me a painting.
25:18 Speaker 01 Yes.
25:18 Lewis Howes? It's hard to be creative.
25:20 Speaker 01 Yes.
25:20 Lewis Howes? But when you say, I want you to paint me a painting with red, black, and green.
25:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
25:25 Lewis Howes? And I want you to have like circular motions.
25:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:28 Lewis Howes? Then you can be creative and artistic with the structure.
25:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:31 Lewis Howes? And the context. And I think when I had the context and the structure of the Whole30, it made me be more creative of how I could make my food.
25:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:40 Lewis Howes? The things that I could order. Now, it limited me in some ways, but it gave me structure.
25:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:45 Lewis Howes? And I think that structure creates discipline as well.
25:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
25:48 Lewis Howes? So.
25:48 Speaker 01 A lot of people find the rules of the program, which are very black and white, very on or off, freeing. Because as you said, it takes some of the decision fatigue out of their brain. It eliminates the need to like, white knuckle willpower your way through every decision. We say no added sugar. So when you pick up a label and you read it, you don't have to think, is this two grams of sugar? Is that too much? Is it not enough? Is it better? Or is it worse? Like, it's just sugar? Nope, it's out. And a lot of people find that very freeing, especially in the beginning, because when you're trying to create a new habit or change a habit, it's like when I went to rehab, they stick you all in a box and you're isolated from the rest of the world because in the beginning, you're really fragile.
26:26 Lewis Howes? Mm-hmm.
26:26 Speaker 01 And it's kind of similar.
26:28 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
26:29 Speaker 01 There's a lot of addiction and recovery, like, language built into the Whole30, which I didn't even realize until kind of after the fact.
26:37 Lewis Howes? Yeah, of course.
26:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:39 Lewis Howes? Now, when did you get married? What year was that?
26:43 Speaker 01 Oh, my gosh.
26:44 Lewis Howes? You don't remember?
26:45 Speaker 01 I should remember.
26:46 Lewis Howes? How?
26:46 Speaker 01 Two thousand and eleven?
26:47 Lewis Howes? Two thousand and eleven.
26:48 Speaker 01 I think.
26:48 Lewis Howes? The book came out two thousand and fifteen.
26:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, the whole thirty book, yeah.
26:52 Lewis Howes? And when did you get divorced?
26:53 Speaker 01 Boy, we separated three years ago in October. And then the divorce took a year to finalize.
26:58 Lewis Howes? Before the book came out, you got divorced or separated?
27:00 Speaker 01 Let me tell you this.
27:00 Lewis Howes? So the writing the book must have been interesting.
27:02 Speaker 01 We separated before the book was written. And.
27:07 Lewis Howes? And then you wrote the book together?
27:09 Speaker 01 No, I wrote the book.
27:10 Lewis Howes? Oh, my gosh.
27:12 Speaker 01 But then we had to do a book tour together.
27:15 Lewis Howes? No way.
27:15 Speaker 01 When no one knew that we were separated.
27:17 Lewis Howes? Shut up.
27:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, we did. And listen, we didn't want anything to detract from the book. Our publishers had invested a lot in us. We wanted to make it about the book and the community, not about us personally. We never made it about us personally. We came together and like nailed it. He and I both did an incredible job.
27:34 Lewis Howes? So we're putting our feelings aside.
27:36 Speaker 01 Yep.
27:36 Lewis Howes? Compartmentalizing this.
27:37 Speaker 01 We did, yeah, we did. And we, I don't think we were disingenuous about it. We weren't pretending to be this like super happy.
27:44 Lewis Howes? Lovey dovey, holding hands.
27:45 Speaker 01 Nope. But when it came time to go out and meet people and talk, we did it. We did a great job and I'm really proud of us for doing that.
27:51 Lewis Howes? Wow.
27:52 Speaker 01 But it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life.
27:54 Lewis Howes? Holy cow.
27:55 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah.
27:56 Lewis Howes? You would think that maybe that would bring you guys back together since you guys were able to do something.
28:00 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
28:01 Lewis Howes? No.
28:01 Speaker 01 No, nobody was under that impression.
28:03 Lewis Howes? How was this for you then, writing a book with a partner that you're separating with and having, you know, whatever emotional challenges you're both having? So I'm assuming he had his own emotional challenges about you. You had stuff about him.
28:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, of course.
28:15 Lewis Howes? Two sides of every story. I don't even know what happened, doesn't matter. But how did you emotionally handle this with your food and nutrition and working on during this time? Were you able to stay whole thirty approved essentially? Or were you kind of like a mess inside with this emotional turmoil?
28:31 Speaker 01 It was the most emotional and like stressful period of my life. And I have.
28:35 Lewis Howes? And you're pregnant, right? Or you're.
28:37 Speaker 01 No, we had had the baby at that point. Our kid was one. So I mean, I was a new mom. But I have never been happier. I've done so much therapy, like so much therapy. And all of the therapy we did in the, over the course of our marriage, trying to make things work. And, and individually prepared me for this time period, which was this is like the most stressful event I could ever imagine going through. And I can still choose to be happy. And I did. So I did well.
29:04 Lewis Howes? Wow.
29:05 Speaker 01 I I.
29:05 Lewis Howes? You didn't break down and like.
29:07 Speaker 01 No, I mean, no, you know, anytime I had periods of like either resentment or anger or frustration, like they were very short lived. I was able to really even I was able to kind of work, process them and work my way through them. I was taking good care of myself. I was taking good care of my son. I had good relationships with my friends. It was like one of the happiest periods of my life, which sounds so strange.
29:28 Lewis Howes? Wow.
29:28 Speaker 01 But it was.
29:30 Lewis Howes? That's great.
29:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was when I feel like my performance in the gym went up and I started back at yoga again and like, yeah, all of this new stuff. Just it's hard, you know, when you're trying so hard to make a relationship work and we were both trying hard to make it work. You give up so many pieces of yourself in an effort to kind of compromise and like put get this thing off the ground. And then once it was clear that it wasn't going to work, I felt like, okay, now it's time to find me again.
29:57 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
29:58 Speaker 01 And that felt good.
29:59 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
30:00 Speaker 01 It felt really good.
30:01 Lewis Howes? Now, so you guys were separated before the book came out.
30:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:05 Lewis Howes? Why did you keep your last name?
30:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:08 Lewis Howes? Before the book came out that why wouldn't you change your name?
30:11 Speaker 01 So.
30:11 Lewis Howes? Back.
30:12 Speaker 01 I had an opportunity.
30:13 Lewis Howes? Do you have a big platform already personally?
30:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, that was basically I had a conversation and it seems so weird to say like my agent helped me decide whether I should change my name back to my, you know, my maiden name after I divorced, but I had the conversation with him saying with her saying, can I go back? My last name is Urban. Can I go back to Urban? And she was like, man, that's a tough sell. Every book you've ever written is under Hartwig. All of the whole 30 stuff is under Hartwig. Like, that's how people know you. And I wasn't so well known. You know, I'm not Glennon Doyle. We're like, she could change her last name to whatever she wants and people would know who she was. So I didn't have that opportunity. And my son's last name is Hartwig.
30:48 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
30:48 Speaker 01 So I didn't, I don't love it. I will say I don't love it.
30:53 Lewis Howes? But you could change it back now.
30:54 Speaker 01 Maybe I could.
30:55 Lewis Howes? Right.
30:55 Speaker 01 Maybe I could. Maybe I should have thought of that before the new book comes out.
30:59 Lewis Howes? It's still time. It's not printed yet.
31:00 Speaker 01 It's true.
31:01 Lewis Howes? Um, wow. Interesting. Do you feel like?
31:05 Lewis Howes? Having control over your nutrition and your fitness has helped you emotionally navigate divorce and the emotions of all that as well?
31:12 Speaker 01 Oh, my gosh, yes.
31:13 Lewis Howes? And divorcing a human, but also divorcing in a business?
31:15 Speaker 01 Yes.
31:16 Lewis Howes? Because you had to do both essentially, right?
31:17 Speaker 01 You did, yes. And the business was way harder. The business was very challenging. You know, I think personally, we had both reconciled ourselves and that part was really easy.
31:25 Lewis Howes? Well, that's good.
31:25 Speaker 01 And the co-parenting is easy and all of that stuff. Yeah, it was tough. Yes, in times of great stress, I'm a huge fan of controlling the things you can control. And the things I could control were the food I put in my body, how much I slept, at least making conscious decisions to like go to bed early and sleep, you know, and at least get as much good sleep as I can and exercise in a smart fashion.
31:47 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
31:48 Speaker 01 Not over exercise, not beat myself up, not kill myself, but like move my body in a way that felt good. So I did.
31:53 Lewis Howes? What advice would you give to women going through divorce? Who have a tendency of emotional eating as a challenge for themselves? Just in general in life? And now they're going through a divorce? Whether they're business partners or not? But they're divorcing and going through this. What suggestions or strategies or tips would you have give for them?
32:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, for me, I think the thing that resonates the most is that people are reaching for food in these times of emotional struggles, but they're not, you don't want a cookie. You're looking for a connection. And I think people, especially at the end of a marriage, you've probably already isolated yourself a little bit from friends and family because when your relationship's not going well, it's really hard to socialize and pretend like it is, or you don't want to bring other people down with all of your issues or they've been hearing about it for so long already. So you tend to pull back anyway. So you're missing these like good in-person connections that can be so helpful with you processing and shifting. And instead you're reaching for food. So my advice and what I tried to do in my own life was just like stay as connected as possible
33:00 Speaker 01 to the people who really mattered. And I shared really openly and we weren't always talking about my feelings or the divorce. Sometimes we were just going to a yoga class or going for a walk. And like, that was great too.
33:10 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
33:11 Speaker 01 But not isolating and like purposefully forging those connections can be so helpful.
33:15 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it'll help you better.
33:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:17 Lewis Howes? Who do you feel like does a better job with the whole 30? Men or women?
33:23 Speaker 01 That's tough. So our audience is mostly women. And I think it's a couple fold. I think the diet industry in general is mostly driven by women. And as much as I wouldn't say the whole thirty is a diet, that's kind of where we fall. We connect with most of our readers via social media and women are far more likely to engage over social on a concept like this. I think what I hear from men is, oh yeah, I totally did the whole thirty, but like I never blogged about it. I never social mediate about it, you know, I never like went on a forum and asked for support. Men tend to do a little bit better, maybe for two reasons. One, they lose, they tend to lose weight faster and that can be, they do, yeah, for a number of reasons. Ah, they've got more muscle mass, testosterone, they tend to have, this is a very gross generality, but like,
34:09 Speaker 01 they maybe don't have as much or as deep of an emotional relationship with food as women do. I know men still have their emotional issues with food, but from what I've observed, they don't tend to either run as deep or be as strong.
34:20 Lewis Howes? Why is that?
34:21 Speaker 01 I don't know. You tell me.
34:23 Lewis Howes? I can throw down a box of donuts at any time.
34:26 Speaker 01 Yeah. And is it hard for you?
34:28 Lewis Howes? I can do it when I'm sad or emotionally distraught, or I can do it when I'm celebrating.
34:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:34 Lewis Howes? I'd be like, okay, we just did this. Let's get a box of pizzas and donuts.
34:39 Speaker 01 Interesting.
34:39 Lewis Howes? So that's the thing. And then here's the thing, I just read this actually a couple of weeks ago. Actually, JJ Virgin brought this to my attention.
34:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:45 Lewis Howes? She sent me an article about, it's about like essentially gender nutritional habits. How for men, there's a way, a style of eating that's different than women.
34:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:57 Lewis Howes? In general, I'm talking about.
34:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:58 Lewis Howes? Where it's competitive for men.
35:00 Speaker 01 Oh, interesting.
35:01 Lewis Howes? Where it's like, oh, I can eat more than you.
35:03 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
35:04 Lewis Howes? You don't see a lot of women doing like food eating contests, right? It's like, it's projecting your masculinity of like, oh, I can beat you at this as well. I can be like bigger and, or I can drink the beer faster than you. I can do these things, uh, better than you.
35:17 Speaker 01 That's true.
35:18 Lewis Howes? Men do barbecues, so we're all gonna have lots of meats and all these other things. Where women eat salads.
35:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:25 Lewis Howes? Or whatever.
35:25 Speaker 01 Sure.
35:25 Lewis Howes? And they eat slower.
35:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:27 Lewis Howes? So there's like this gender kind of like.
35:29 Speaker 01 I definitely don't want to insinuate that like guys don't have emotional relationships with food. I think maybe where I was going with this was that women tend to be a little bit more like mind screwed when it comes to food because we've been fed the diet industry and the inspiration our whole lives and that hasn't been as directed towards men, I don't think. So, you know, we've got the Cosmo magazines and the glamors and all the other stuff and the media and the diet industry telling us that we're not skinny enough and we're not toned enough and whatever. So you add that to an emotional relationship with food and that can be really challenging.
36:03 Lewis Howes? What advice do you have about women who are emotional eaters in general? How to like separate themselves from that or how to navigate it or?
36:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know.
36:11 Lewis Howes? Accept it? I don't know. What's even the best way to go about it?
36:14 Speaker 01 So like part of it is biological, right? Like under periods of chronic stress, we crave sugar. It is biological. It is what happens in our system with our hormones when we are under stress and our body thinks that we need to run from the tiger or fend off the attack and we want quick and easy energy. Like that's a very simplistic overview, but part of it is biological. So there's almost a piece of that that can be really freeing for people. Like, okay, you know, you're going through a really difficult divorce and finances are tight and you're not sure where you're gonna live. Of course you're craving sugar, right? Of course. So that's expected. So that can be almost comforting for people.
36:49 Lewis Howes? Just the awareness of that.
36:50 Speaker 01 I think so.
36:51 Lewis Howes? Understanding it.
36:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, right. Understanding kind of what's going on behind the scenes can make you feel less crazy. Like, I don't really want this, but why am I craving it? And once I start eating, I can't stop. I think for some people, if your emotional relationship with food isn't to the point where you would consider yourself addicted or you're not eating specifically as a result of like some kind of unresolved trauma or an issue, maybe doing a reset like the Whole30 can help. Where, you know, you're pulling this stuff out of your diet and physiologically and psychologically, we are giving you a reset from these foods that are making you crave and overconsume and get you stuck in this cycle.
37:22 Lewis Howes? Yeah, so that way you have better habits.
37:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:25 Lewis Howes? Afterwards.
37:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:25 Lewis Howes? Do it for 30 days.
37:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:27 Lewis Howes? And then you're not as craving it as much.
37:28 Speaker 01 Yes. And that works really well for some people. For others, I say like, just go talk to, you gotta go talk to someone.
37:33 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
37:34 Speaker 01 It's about the food, but it's not about the food. It's about like all of the stuff that's coming underneath and behind the food. And like, you need to look at that. Right? That is sending you to the food.
37:43 Lewis Howes? Right. You need to release it.
37:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:45 Lewis Howes? You need to connect about it in a different way.
37:46 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I'm a huge fan of therapy. Any modality that happens to work for you, like these things, a lot of these things are too big to unpack yourself, too big. So.
37:56 Lewis Howes? Wow.
37:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:57 Lewis Howes? What else are you excited about in your life right now?
37:59 Speaker 01 Ah, my son's amazing. He's four and a half and super fun. His own like great little personality and he's just getting to the age where like I'm doing stuff with him instead of just like toting him along everywhere, which is cool. So he gets to tell me what he wants to do on a weekend and he loves being outside and hiking with me and stuff. So that's good. I feel like I have such an awesome network of friends right now.
38:18 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
38:18 Speaker 01 Such and like guys and girls, which is cool. I never had girlfriends growing up.
38:23 Lewis Howes? Really?
38:23 Speaker 01 Not really.
38:24 Lewis Howes? Like the lone girl?
38:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't know. I don't think, I think maybe I had some like defense mechanisms and now it's like I like sharing with my girlfriends. And like we get, yeah, we sit down and just like get into it. There's not like, yeah, so that's feels really good. I'm traveling a ton.
38:41 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
38:41 Speaker 01 I love what I do for work.
38:43 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it's pretty amazing, right?
38:43 Speaker 01 So much. I love it.
38:44 Lewis Howes? Helping people.
38:45 Speaker 01 All of it.
38:46 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
38:46 Speaker 01 All of it. Creating resources, meeting them, hearing their stories. Like what do you need? What can I do for you? Let me help, you know? I love it so much. Super fulfilling.
38:54 Lewis Howes? What would you say is missing for you?
38:55 Speaker 01 A solid like personal life or relationship. It's kind of the excuse that feeds it, right? Like I've been in this period of work hustle where work is going really well and I've put out, you know, I've been writing books like crazy and.
39:06 Lewis Howes? Is it your fifth book now or what?
39:07 Speaker 01 This is my, it'll be my sixth, but it's the second year that I will put out two books in a row. That's like crazy. I, and I don't have as much to do with the cookbooks, but like still.
39:16 Lewis Howes? Right.
39:17 Speaker 01 So work is going really well. So I'm focusing on work and I also have my kid and I've sleep really well and I'm at the gym all the time and I do yoga all the time and stuff. And it's like, I date someone and then they're like, you're kind of hard to date. And I'm like, you know, because I'm not around and I travel so much and stuff. So it's easy almost to say like, well, I'll just put that off for a little while. Except I've been saying that for a little while.
39:36 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
39:37 Speaker 01 So, you know, maintaining personal relationships can be tough for a number of reasons. So that's, I think that's what's missing.
39:44 Lewis Howes? What's it gonna take for you to, to bring it into your life?
39:47 Speaker 01 Some pretty conscious pulling back of what I do for work. Some pretty conscious, like this could be a good opportunity, but I'm going to pass on it for now and really focus on like connecting in my relationships.
39:58 Lewis Howes? Right. Or do you feel like if you found someone that was worth pulling back for, you would?
40:02 Speaker 01 Maybe. Yeah, maybe. That's a good way of looking at it, too. It, let's just put it this way. For the first time in a long time, I'm like tossing it out there.
40:10 Lewis Howes? Oh.
40:11 Speaker 01 Right? Like, okay, universe, I'm kind of ready for this.
40:14 Lewis Howes? That's cool.
40:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm ready for like something that's a little more connected and a little more serious. It's been three years. I took the first year and a half and like didn't really date at all because I felt like I needed that space for me and that was great. Uh, but yeah, I think I'm ready for it. So maybe that's it.
40:27 Lewis Howes? That's cool.
40:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:28 Lewis Howes? Awesome.
40:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:29 Lewis Howes? What have you learned about building an online community around this topic? Because I think there's a lot of people who are experts or nutritionists or just in, in general, coaches, helping other people, but you've built like a great community.
40:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:42 Lewis Howes? Through different groups, on Facebook, on social media, your website. What would you say has been helpful for you in navigating that and cultivating that?
40:51 Speaker 01 Yeah. So I think it's two things. I think number one, it is like serving them. And I stay incredibly engaged with my community, like me directly, right? I'm not, nobody's.
41:03 Lewis Howes? So much time, right?
41:03 Speaker 01 It is so much time.
41:05 Lewis Howes? I'm like one by one replying to so many people.
41:07 Speaker 01 Yes. And it's the most important part of my job. It is how you build connection. It's how you build loyalty. It's how you get great ideas for your business. Somebody says, oh, you should have this person on your podcast. And if 10 other people chime in, you're like, oh, they weren't on my radar, but I should. And then you're serving them and it's good for you and it's good for them. Like, serve your community, cultivate the community. If you do that, everything else will follow. I have people now who are fiercely loyal to the program, who I write a book and they're like, I'll buy it. I don't need it, but I'll buy it because I want to support you. And it's because I'm not trying to sell them stuff. I'm just serving them. But I think the more important thing is that behind the community or the marketing or whatever your social media is, like you have to have a product that's really good.
41:47 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
41:48 Speaker 01 And I think a lot of people overlook that.
41:49 Lewis Howes? They don't have a good product.
41:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know, you can have the flashy marketing camp. I mean, this is me telling you this. I feel silly even, you know, but you know what I'm saying, right? You can have the best smoke and mirrors and show and prettiest Instagram feed, but like if at the heart, you don't have something that actually gives people what they need and what they want and works for them, then like, they're not going to stick around. And the point is to cultivate a loyal following, not just a flash in the pan set of followers.
42:14 Lewis Howes? Right. Starts with a product.
42:15 Speaker 01 It does.
42:15 Lewis Howes? And then it's engagement.
42:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:17 Lewis Howes? And listening to what they want, serving them.
42:19 Speaker 01 Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's slower.
42:21 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
42:22 Speaker 01 And it's not as sexy. And you maybe don't have these like giant gains, right? And maybe you're not getting. All of these major offers to promote sponsored stuff on your but like I don't I'm not a huge fan of that.
42:32 Lewis Howes? Right, right, exactly.
42:33 Speaker 01 I'm really not.
42:34 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
42:34 Speaker 01 I like to keep it really authentic and personal and yeah.
42:38 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
42:39 Speaker 01 That's what I like to do.
42:40 Lewis Howes? What would you say is your greatest gift?
42:42 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm really good at speaking to people the way they want to be spoken to. Meaning I can take a message and within not a very long period of time, I can figure out whether you need that message delivered tough love style or cheerleader style or sciency style. I've cultivated that. I'm good at that.
43:02 Lewis Howes? Smart.
43:03 Speaker 01 Which is really helpful when you're trying to inspire change. Yeah, I'm pretty good at that.
43:07 Lewis Howes? And the biggest weakness?
43:08 Speaker 01 Really, I tend to be a little dogmatic, especially in the beginning. Again, I'm very black or white. I'm very on or off. It's taken me a long time to cultivate a sense of like nuance and context and empathy is something that I've had to like work at and teach myself. So I still struggle and sometimes fail in that, but I'm not afraid to say like I was wrong. Here's where I was wrong. Sorry about that. Here's what I'm going to do in the future, right? I'm not afraid to do that.
43:38 Lewis Howes? That's great.
43:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:38 Lewis Howes? That's great. Okay, final few questions. This is called three truths.
43:43 Speaker 01 Okay.
43:44 Lewis Howes? So this is the last day for you many years from now.
43:46 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:47 Lewis Howes? But all of your content is erased from history.
43:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:50 Lewis Howes? And so there's no information that you've shared available anymore.
43:53 Speaker 01 Yep.
43:54 Lewis Howes? And you had a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true about all your experiences.
43:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:59 Lewis Howes? The lessons you would leave behind.
44:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:01 Lewis Howes? What would you say are your three truths?
44:03 Speaker 01 Oh, love yourself. Love more. God, those would be the only two, I think. Just love.
44:11 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
44:11 Speaker 01 More love. That's it.
44:14 Lewis Howes? Okay, cool.
44:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:15 Lewis Howes? Cool. What are you most grateful for right now?
44:18 Speaker 01 I'm the most grateful to be able to spend my days doing something that I love to do so much. This work, I feel like I have found my like life's calling. This is what God put me here to do. I can't think of anything I could be more grateful for than that. Obviously, my son and my family, but like that, the fact that I feel like I'm living my purpose.
44:38 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
44:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:39 Lewis Howes? That's great. Well, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Melissa, for your ability to transform your habits and get out of a dark place. Cause I think for some people. It's hard to stay, to get out of that. Once you've been addicted, once you've been in that space, it's really easy to keep going down that path. So for you to get yourself out of there and to have someone stand for you and you for to listen to that person, and then to continue to make your life about transformation for others, it's really inspiring and powerful. So I want to acknowledge you for that.
45:09 Speaker 01 Thanks so much.
45:10 Lewis Howes? Of course. The new book is called The Whole 30 Day by Day, Your Daily Guide to Whole 30 Success. It's out now when this comes out. You guys can get it online. What's the website as well?
45:23 Speaker 01 Whole30.com, W-H-O-L-E and the number 30.
45:26 Lewis Howes? Whole30.com, at Melissa Hartwig. Make sure to check her out on social media. Get the book. I've done the program. It's amazing, so I highly recommend it. And it's probably the best results I've gotten from anything. I mean, I've tried paleo, I've tried all these different things, but Whole 30 felt like it was something I could continue to do and want to come back to do, so.
45:45 Speaker 01 That makes me so happy.
45:46 Lewis Howes? Yeah, so I recommend it with so much out there in the nutrition space that it's just hard to, it's just something seems to always come out new every day, right? I feel like this is something that's really sustainable because it's the best food that you're supposed to be eating.
46:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:00 Lewis Howes? So I highly recommend you guys check it out. Whole30.com, you can learn more about it there. The final question is, what is your definition of greatness?
46:09 Speaker 01 Ooh, I think my definition of greatness is showing up as yourself, period. That's it. Whether I'm interviewing with you, or whether I'm at home with my kid, or whether I'm speaking in front of 400 people, like, am I showing up as me? Am I just Melissa right now? That's pretty great.
46:28 Lewis Howes? Melissa, thank you so much.
46:30 Speaker 01 My pleasure.
46:30 Lewis Howes? Appreciate you.
46:37 Lewis Howes? There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. And if you did, make sure to share it with your friends. Let me know what you thought of this. Tweet me at Lewis Howes. If you go to the show notes, you can watch the full video interview at lewishowes.com/571. All the resources, information about Melissa's new book. Again, make sure to pick up a copy of that. It'll be powerful. Before you going into the new year, I highly recommend trying the whole 30. Every time I do it, I get transformational results. So check out the new book. Tag me, tag Melissa over on Instagram Stories, Twitter, Facebook, all the good stuff. Share this out with your friends who you think might find this inspiring and helpful as well. Someone who's gone through a divorce, someone who's gone through addiction and overcome it,
47:20 Lewis Howes? someone who is launching a business, someone who's looking to get healthy. All these things are added in this one, so make sure to check it out. As always, you were born for a reason. You were born and put on this earth for a purpose, a mission. You're at a season in your life right now where you may know what that mission is, or you may have zero clue what it is. It's your moment to figure out what it is and to take action towards it. And if you already know what it is, then you know now is the time to step it up. As the year finishes, it's time to get clear on what you're going to create next year and how you're going to build this momentum into next year.
48:02 Lewis Howes? So get clear on your vision for what you want in your life, for your health, your relationships, your finances, your career, your spirituality, your play. Get clear, write these things down and start taking action on a game plan. That's how you're going to take this to the next level next year. And as Bernard Williams said, "Man never made any material as resilient as the human spirit." Remember how resilient you are. You might've gone through some crazy things this year, but you are one resilient mother effer. It's time to step up. You got this, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.
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