533 High Performance Mindset Training with Dr. Michael Gervais

"Uncomfortableness is how we grow but pain is why we change." - Dr. Michael Gervais If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/533 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 533 with high-performance psychologist Dr. Michael Gervais.

• 0:08Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:34Lewis Howes?

  Michael Jordan said, "You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them." I'm very excited about this episode because it's all about how to optimize your performance, how to take your life to a whole other level, and it starts with the mindset. I'm super pumped about Dr. Michael Gervais who is with us right now. He is a high-performance psychologist with over 20 years of experience working in high-stakes environments with some of the top athletes, musicians, and executives in the world. He is known for his work with the Super Bowl-winning Seattle Seahawks, helping them with their mental performance, Microsoft executives, Olympic beach volleyball star Kerry Walsh Jennings,

• 1:16Lewis Howes?

  world record skydiver Felix Baumgartner, and PGA golfer Luke Donald. Dr. Gervais has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Fox News, and many other media outlets. And the things we talked about today are really how to optimize the mindset for peak performance, for high performance. And one of the things we cover is what is really going on in the brain when someone is actually in flow state at their most peak performance? What's happening in the brain? And why do we need to be more if we want to do more? And how we can be more? How our mind is like a drunken monkey most of the time and how to manage it effectively.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  Three tactics to discover your personal philosophy about life. And really, Michael says that this is one of the keys to overcoming a lot of fears is by having this personal philosophy. And he teaches you how to find it. Also, what to do about loneliness that comes from pushing your edges? Because those that want to achieve great things usually have to go to a lonely place, especially in their mind. When doing those great things, some powerful stuff. Make sure to take a screenshot of this right now, tag me on your Instagram story. At Lewis Howes and share this with your friends who want to achieve more high performance in high stakes environments. Also, a big shout out to the fan of the week.

• 2:44Lewis Howes?

  This is from Ash Passion, who said, seriously, love your podcast. It's very enlightening and insightful. It makes me feel like I'm learning from the top knowledge experts. I listen when I'm out and about while I'm cooking and cleaning. And if I need motivation, I turn it on. If I want a good start to my day, I check it out. I can't get enough. Thank you. So thank you so much for being the review of the week. And if you guys want a chance to be considered for a shout out on the podcast, all you need to do is leave a review over on iTunes. We go through those every single week. We take out some of the best and we'll give you a shout out to be considered as the review of the week. So check it out over on iTunes and leave us a review at School of Greatness.

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  Also, we are about a month and a half away from the launch of The Mask of Masculinity. This is the book I've been working on for over two years. It's a journey about how men can embrace vulnerability, create strong relationships and live their fullest lives. What's in this for men? Men will understand what holds them back from their most powerful self. They'll develop an unwavering foundation of confidence in any situation. It will help propel them to a level of power and success that they may never thought possible. Embrace and let go of any fears that hold them back from their dreams and so much more. But this book is not only for men, it's for women too.

• 4:10Lewis Howes?

  It's for all the women who want to understand the men in their life better. It's for women who want to learn ways you can emotionally support the men you love. To learn powerful tools to connect more intimately in your relationships. Learn how to get men you love to open up and be more vulnerable and understand what holds the men in your life back. That and so much more. Make sure to go to Mask of Masculinity right now. You can preorder one copy and get a bonus, or you can preorder multiple copies. I'm giving away a ton of goodies for people that get three copies, that get 10 copies, 250 copies. Check out all the bonuses. It's unbelievable what we're adding, how much value we're adding when you buy one book,

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  three books, or more. So check it out at maskofmasculinity.com. And when you preorder a copy of your book, make sure to take a screenshot of the receipt and tag me on your Instagram story @lewishouse and I will respond to each person who does that. So check it out, maskofmasculinity.com and tag me on Instagram when you do. All right, it is time to take your mind to a whole new level so you can optimize for any high-stake environment you have in your life to get into the flow and take control of your dreams and your life. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Dr. Michael Gervais. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast.

• 5:38Lewis Howes?

  We have Dr. Michael Gervais in the house. Good to see you, my friend. How you doing?

• 5:42Michael Gervais?

  My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

• 5:44Lewis Howes?

  Of course, man. I'm very excited. Now, you are a high-performance psychologist with 20 years of experience working with a lot of high-level Olympians, athletes, executives, to just high-stakes performers in general.

• 5:57Michael Gervais?

  That's right.

• 5:58Lewis Howes?

  And I'm curious, how did this begin for you? Was it originally in sports psychology? I think a lot of people originate from sports, or was it something else for you?

• 6:06Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, great question. I'll take you back to how it started for me, which I think that most trajectories in life begin with some sort of pain. And so, yeah, if we can get clear on what that is, then... Um, you know, I think the path gets much easier. So I'll start there. But before I go there, the mechanical part is pretty simple. Undergraduate degree in psychology, master's degree in kinesiology. I'll put an asterisk on that for a minute. And then back to a PhD in psychology with an emphasis in sport. And then licensed as a psychologist in California. And then figured out, I didn't know anything. At that point, I still didn't know anything.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  You all with the degrees.

• 6:42Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, I mean, with all those training. But what I did know is all the base theory. And I got to stand on the shoulders of giants that have researched over and over again, like how the human mind and body work together. And what those theoretical orientations were.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:57Michael Gervais?

  Phenomenal.

• 6:58Lewis Howes?

  But you weren't like a tactician at the time, yet like working in the weeds with people's minds.

• 7:02Michael Gervais?

  No, not yet. Not enough.

• 7:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Michael Gervais?

  And then, so then I went.

• 7:06Lewis Howes?

  More like role playing in class or something.

• 7:07Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, it was, right?

• 7:10Lewis Howes?

  You're about to go on stage. Let's walk through your fears. Yeah.

• 7:13Michael Gervais?

  I remember the first time, I'll get to the first question in a minute, but the first time that, um, so before you, before you become licensed, you have to be supervised for 3,000 hours. And that's by another psychologist saying, hey, why did you put your pencil down at minute 22 in the conversation?

• 7:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 7:29Michael Gervais?

  You know, and how come you took the conversation this way? Did you miss A, B, and C? And so like, there's an intense amount of training that goes into sitting in front of another human being and having them express what's deep within them. Right? Their aspirations, their pains, the dark side, the light side. And there's incredible training just to say that for me, there was incredible training for me to say that now, at that point, after the 3,000 hours, I still didn't know anything.

• 7:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:54Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. And so the reason that I knew I didn't know anything is because, um, I hadn't been in the trenches yet with people that were masterful. People that were off, had created enough training that they could authentically express what's within themselves. And so therein lies why I got started is that I grew up here in California. And my first sport was surfing. And I was, there's free surfing and there's competitive surfing. There's two types of surfing. And free surfing, I was a good little, you know, 15 year old free surfer, meaning when it was just me and Mother Nature, no problem. Like it was really good, you know.

• 8:33Lewis Howes?

  You're the man out there.

• 8:34Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, right. Like.

• 8:34Lewis Howes?

  Get every wave.

• 8:36Michael Gervais?

  I could figure it out well enough with the boys. Like it was fun. And then as soon as competition happened, um, and there was people on the beach and those judges and now, yeah, the whole thing was happening. That I felt like a shell of myself and I'm a 15, 16 year old kid at this point, shaking out in the water and, you know, surf that I'm super comfortable in. And there was one day where a surfer passed by me and we were in heat. There's only three guys out in the heat. And he paddles by me now. He's like a grown man and he paddles by me and he says, Gervais, you gotta stop thinking about what could go wrong.

• 9:10Michael Gervais?

  And I thought, I said, how the hell does he know what's in my head? That's it. Like I couldn't feel my feet. I couldn't feel my body. It was discon- completely disconnected to my board. And so like a good competitor, he didn't tell me what to do.

• 9:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:23Michael Gervais?

  He just told me not to think about like all the things that I was worrying about. So I sat for a minute and I said, okay, well, if that's the case, let me start thinking about what I want to have happen. And so I just kind of mused and, you know, created some imagination about that, about what it would feel like to surf at my best. So that was the first introduction, looking back with hindsight, that I had to sports psychology. And it, and I got out of that heat and I said, you know, there's something to like how my mind's worked. It's screwed up. My mind screwed up. Like I can't be myself. As soon as there's people watching and judging me, right? And so call it performance anxiety, call it whatever you want. I didn't have command of my mind. And I didn't know there was such a thing as sports psychology, but I knew that the mind and my craft were, there was an intimate link at that point.

• 10:08Michael Gervais?

  And so, um, that's what started it. That intersection of pain of not being able to authentically express what was inside of me. And that's what kind of took me down this path.

• 10:17Lewis Howes?

  And so you started researching and studying this while you're in high school?

• 10:20Michael Gervais?

  No, yeah, I wish I was that switched on. No, I mean, I barely got out of high school. And, um, I was the first person in my family, you know, to go to college. Uh, I started junior college because there was this moment in time when, um, my, my mom, I specifically remember it. She pulled me aside. It was my senior year in high school and she pulled me aside and she said, you know, Mike, we tried. And your your father and I, you know, we went to the school of hard knocks and we, you know, we didn't, we didn't know how to support you in this way. But at this point in your life, you need to do one of two things. You need to go to junior college and we'll help you there, or you need to get out and get a job. And I thought,

• 10:58Lewis Howes?

  At eighteen?

• 10:58Michael Gervais?

  At eighteen, yeah, it was like seventeen, eighteen. I started school early. And I said, no, I I know how to go to school and surf. So let me just, let me extend like year twelve to thirteen and fourteen. Let me see if I can just play this game a little bit longer. And um, yeah, so I went to a junior college. And I've, it was at that place that I, there was three professors that saw this, you know, grommet. That's what they call young surfers, this little grommet, you know, bouncing around school, just trying to figure out how to get out of class again. I tested in, this is all, sounds really unbecoming, but I think there's a good story to it, is that I tested into remedial math and remedial English. And it's not because I didn't understand the concepts, it's because I didn't understand how to study. And I missed high school.

• 11:43Michael Gervais?

  Which is a, in some ways, an assault on, um, you know, high, public high schools.

• 11:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:50Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So I missed, I missed high school. Literally, I was in the water surfing more than I was in class, it felt like. I tested remedial math, remedial English. There was three professors up at this school, Marymount College. And it was a psychologist, a theologian, and a philosopher. Those are the three professors. And I'll tell you what, I'd fell in love. They showed me how to fall in love with working to understand the invisible. And it was like, from that point forward, no one ever had to ask me to read another book. That was it. And it just took off for me.

• 12:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 12:22Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 12:22Lewis Howes?

  It was a catalyst. You had a great catalyst that like,

• 12:25Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 12:25Lewis Howes?

  finally made you understand the power of learning and.

• 12:28Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, it was pain and love. It was those two things, the pain of not being myself and then the love of like this learning that took place.

• 12:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:35Michael Gervais?

  And so I I love to share that story. It's not, has very little to do with me. It has to do with, um, you know, those three professors.

• 12:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:41Michael Gervais?

  And so.

• 12:42Lewis Howes?

  Now, was, was there a moment when, um, you kept competing and you realized, okay, now I know what's going on in my mind? And I know that I have this anxiety, this fear, or whatever it was, holding you back. And I'm learning how to switch it off so that I can step into my vision or to what I want to create as opposed to what I want, what's gonna happen wrong. Was there a moment when that started happening in the water, you're like, wow, I finally started to click?

• 13:06Michael Gervais?

  Yes and no. I wish I had that dramatic thing, you know, and I like, yeah. It's for me, it never quite worked that way. It was like this gradual progression and the way I liken it to is, I think it's the case for most of us, is that you know, when you have like a toothache or you have something that is like aching or there's a pain and then, or hiccups and then you look back like time progresses and you go, oh my God, my toothache is gone. Or my hiccups are gone. Like this is great. So this is like this gradual progression, but not this one kind of instantaneous lightning rod moment, at least for me, you know, in my life. So, uh, no, there's this gradual progression where I felt that I was more grounded. I understood,

• 13:50Michael Gervais?

  um, because of increased awareness and then I was, but at the same time I was learning from these really bright men and women, some of the best doers in the world and they were on a very similar journey. And the only difference I had is that they were in the amphitheater doing it. And at this young phase of my life, I just had some theoretical orientation. So early on in my career, I felt like I learned much more than they learned. And then, um, I'm not saying it's different now. I'm still like, I want to be a beginner and everywhere I go. So, um, yeah, so that's kind of the, the arc, if you will.

• 14:23Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. What do you think is the, the main thing that holds people back from high performance? When it matters the most?

• 14:30Michael Gervais?

  Well, I think there's two parts to that question, you know, you add the when it matters the most. And that's a really important nuanced esoteric phrase. And I love this phrase, when it matters most, because if you listen to ESPN or you listen to Fox Sports or you listen to any of those, um, you know, types of shows, they'll say that big game, defining play, defining moment. And there really isn't such a thing. And so when it matters most is now. It's not later. It's not the Super Bowl. It's not your Everest. It's not the pitch that you're, the, that you're going to give to a VC firm. That's not the moment. The moment is now.

• 15:10Michael Gervais?

  And it's always now and it's now again. And if we are present, it's now again and it's always now. And so the idea is that there's no such thing as a moment later that's more important than the one you have now. Because again, this is very esoteric. If we were to strip away your ability and my ability to live in this present moment, then we don't have life, right? It's the absence of life. But what happens for most of us is that if you think about this moment, a little bit like a raindrop, like it's moving, okay, and eventually it'll crash, death, if you will, but like this raindrop that's moving, we can be on the edges of the raindrop, or we could be right in the center. We don't ever leave our raindrop, our unique raindrop. But when we go to the edges

• 15:54Michael Gervais?

  of the raindrop, it's like we are not fully in the present moment. And so what gets in the way? Anxiety, you know, worry. What do they think of me? What if it goes wrong? Do I have what it takes? Am I gonna embarrass myself? Am I gonna let people down? You know, so that anxiety is a real condition. It's estimated that, well, the research suggests that 15% of Americans suffer, and that's the word, from anxiety. The estimate is probably more like 30% suffer, and it's a mental disorder, and anxiety by definition is the excessive worry about what could go wrong. So that's at the root.

• 16:32Lewis Howes?

  What's the opposite of anxiety?

• 16:35Michael Gervais?

  Groundedness, a sense of poise and presence.

• 16:38Lewis Howes?

  Focusing on what could go right?

• 16:39Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, well, not even, not even that, but like, yes, right? So if, if anxiety is worrying about what could go wrong, an anecdote for that experience is focusing on what could go right, what could be fantastic.

• 16:51Lewis Howes?

  Living in gratitude.

• 16:52Michael Gervais?

  That's right. Yeah, which I'm, obviously you're familiar with. But the essence of it is coming back to the center of that raindrop, that esoteric thing I'm talking about, like that falling raindrop, to time your ability to be right in the center. And what, what does that mean? That you're grounded, you're present, your, your mind is on time with what's happening. And so you've heard great athletes talk about the game slows down.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:13Michael Gervais?

  It doesn't slow down. That's not what happens, is that our mind becomes fully syncopated at the speed of life, and we're on time. And so when we're finally on time, it's such a, like a relief, like, oh, my God, this is, this is the speed of life. This is amazing.

• 17:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:29Michael Gervais?

  And so we don't have, ever have the power to slow down time. We just have the power to increase our ability to be on time, right? On this moment, then the next moment, then the next moment. The worried mind is behind time, or ahead of time. Right? And so there are times to do, there are moments where we need to think about the future. Don't, I mean, for sure, but it's the excessive worry about what could go wrong. And I think that that would be, um, so it's fear and fatigue are the two kind of cripplers of potential. And so if we get the fear thing right, and we have a relationship with fear, and we look for moments to challenge our relationship with fear, I can talk a lot, I love to talk about that with you, and the other is getting the fatigue thing right.

• 18:11Michael Gervais?

  And we, we've come in modern times to believe that we need to do more to be more. And it's broken, right? It's fundamentally broken. The idea is that we need to be more and let the doing flow from there. Be yourself, be your authentic self, be here now, you know, be grateful, be present, and let the doing flow from those, that orientation is a completely different model that, you know, it's like I, I've, I'm spending my life efforts, I think, working to share that and to help the, some of the best doers and thinkers in the world to reorientate what got them good, but is slowing them down from being their absolute personal best.

• 18:56Lewis Howes?

  What's slowing them down? Fear and fatigue? Still?

• 18:59Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, well, the idea, the framework, the psychological framework that I need to do more to be more, and that's born out of anxiety.

• 19:06Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. Not doing enough.

• 19:08Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 19:08Lewis Howes?

  Could be doing more.

• 19:09Michael Gervais?

  And the trick.

• 19:10Lewis Howes?

  Stressing about.

• 19:11Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, but flat out, and the trick though, there is that that, that'll get people good. I need to do more. Damn, I missed that jumper. How am I gonna miss that jumper? Let's keep it like.

• 19:20Lewis Howes?

  Drive them to be, practice more to, yeah.

• 19:23Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, so that's this, um, you know, it's like just enough anxiety will get you good, but it will slow you down for being your absolute best at some point, you know, so. It's tricky.

• 19:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:36Michael Gervais?

  Right. There's an edge.

• 19:36Lewis Howes?

  Cause you need to be driven to train and practice with that edge.

• 19:41Michael Gervais?

  That's right.

• 19:41Lewis Howes?

  In order to be great at something.

• 19:43Michael Gervais?

  That's right. Yeah.

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  You know, if you're just doing it for fun, it's different, but to be, to be a winner, to be a champion in sports, let's say, or to be a great performer on stage, musician, whatever, you've got to put in the time.

• 19:53Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, I, I think the-

• 19:54Lewis Howes?

  Deliberate time, right?

• 19:55Michael Gervais?

  Well, yeah, it's nauseatingly how, how truly challenging it is to focus deeply.

• 20:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:02Michael Gervais?

  And it's rare, you know, our, our, the natural state of our mind is like a drunk monkey. And for some people, it's double fisted. It's all over the place. It's, you know, so emotionally erratic.

• 20:12Lewis Howes?

  Good thing I don't drink, otherwise I'd be messed up.

• 20:16Michael Gervais?

  Did you have a run with that?

• 20:17Lewis Howes?

  I've never been drunk in my life.

• 20:18Michael Gervais?

  Stop it.

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  Never been drunk.

• 20:20Michael Gervais?

  Is there, is there-

• 20:21Lewis Howes?

  I have like a sip, I have like a Bailey's on ice every now and then, like a couple of times a year. But I've never felt like a buzz or anything. Um, I think when I went in high school, first I went to a private boarding school. So there was no, you weren't allowed to drink and I was just kind of like, I don't really care. Some kids were, but I was in the dorm and didn't really have access to it and didn't care.

• 20:40Michael Gervais?

  What were you focused on?

• 20:42Lewis Howes?

  Sports. I mean, my vision was to be the best athlete I could be. And to go, you know, get a college scholarship, play, play professionally. And so when I went to college, I remember when I graduated high school, all my siblings were like, you're going to be this drunk jock. Like we already know it. And I think out of spite, I was like, I'm going to bet you I'm not going to have a single sip of alcohol my entire career in college.

• 21:03Michael Gervais?

  There you go.

• 21:03Lewis Howes?

  So I didn't have a single sip. I went to so many college, like parties after football games, just like crazy drunken parties. Was never even tempted. I think because I just had in my mind, like these, my teammates are losing their edge. The more they drink and like, the sloppier they are, they weren't recovered for the next day. And it was holding them back the whole week and, you know, performance. So for me, I was just like, I need every edge. I was just, uh, I didn't have the speed, the strength, the skill as everyone else. I was like, I need the mental edge.

• 21:35Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, there you go. And you know, if- Being hung over is a significant problem to being consistently great. Like that becomes problematic. And so I, I had a similar experience to you, right? And mine was born a little bit differently. I had a family of addiction.

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 21:49Michael Gervais?

  Right? So it was in my family. I saw it and I said, I'm not going down that path. Yeah. So it's easy to repeat that when one feels like it's not enough. One drink feels like it's not enough, but a thousand's, you know, no, what's the saying? Ones too, ones too many, a thousand's not enough. So there's like this craving that I felt early on to it. And I said, wow, I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, which I'm so thankful that I had such dysfunction that I was able to witness.

• 22:14Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 22:15Michael Gervais?

  But I knew that if I'm doing what my boys are doing, that I'm not getting up in the morning surfing.

• 22:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:19Michael Gervais?

  So forget about it.

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  No, you're sleeping and you're exhausted. Yeah.

• 22:23Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 22:24Lewis Howes?

  So fear and anxiety. So.

• 22:26Michael Gervais?

  No, no, fear and fatigue.

• 22:28Lewis Howes?

  Fear and fatigue. So.

• 22:30Lewis Howes?

  Why? So it's hard to perform if we're fatigued physically and emotionally, right? But why do we fear so much about what could go wrong? What other people think about us, who we're going to let down? That we're not worthy enough, good enough. Why do we fear that?

• 22:46Michael Gervais?

  It's a great question.

• 22:47Lewis Howes?

  So much.

• 22:47Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, it's a really great question.

• 22:49Lewis Howes?

  For our whole life.

• 22:50Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. Is that, so there's some biological things we can take a look at. And then there's also psychological, right? And then, so it's the interaction of those two. Biologically, our brain, as best as we think, and it's three pounds of silly putty that sits in our skull. That's more complicated than, you know, like the brightest minds in neuroscience are still amazed by how our brain works. And so, um, but we think that our brain is designed to scan the world and find what's dangerous. Right? And so our ancestors passed that gift on to us. Your lineage passed that gift on to you, that they were able to survive. And so how survive way back in ancient times that they could scan the world and.

• 23:32Michael Gervais?

  Easily discern how to be ready between, now let me say it more eloquently. They could scan the world and find what was dangerous or what was threatening. So that they wouldn't be eaten. Eaten by the saber tooth tiger, as the story goes, right?

• 23:47Lewis Howes?

  Or they want to eat something bad, or they want to whatever, protect themselves.

• 23:49Michael Gervais?

  That's right. So, and then, so then, not only was nature dangerous and all the elements of nature, but other humans became dangerous to each other. So now what we've created is the ability, the heightened ability to read micro expressions. And micro expressions are the small squinting of the eyes, the frontalis muscles between the eyes. And when those squint or don't move, it's a sense of threat. Right? Because we don't know what's happening to that, from that person. And so if you got this ancient brain that's programmed beautifully to find what's dangerous, and we scanned in an undisciplined way our environment around us, we're going to find dangerous things. And in modern times, we're not chased by saber tooth anymore.

• 24:32Michael Gervais?

  The new, modern saber tooth are other people's opinions. And so we're well conditioned from an early age. And this next generation is going to be even more well conditioned. You know, with Insta highlight reels for everything. My life is better than yours. I'm going to show you via a snap picture. Is that, you know, so we've got this real challenge that to pursue a path of our personal best, we have to override our DNA. That's, that's hard to do. That's really hard to do. It requires deep commitment to training.

• 25:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:02Michael Gervais?

  And that's a psych, that's what psychology, the optimal opportunities that psychology offers us is just that. How to train our minds to override our DNA and to use the smaller parts of our brain to scan the world and find opportunity.

• 25:18Lewis Howes?

  How can we train our minds every single day, throughout the day, to do that?

• 25:22Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  Overcome this fear? What are the things that we could be doing?

• 25:24Michael Gervais?

  I could, I will, not I could, I will rattle off as many as you want to hear, like tactics. And then I also want to put a small little asterisk next to this, is that the tactic alone is not enough. Right. It's the stitching of the tactics. It's the stitching of the mental skills training to each other and to one's personal philosophy. So without a personal philosophy, it's like you, we end up just trying all these different things to get better. But what are we getting better at? What other people want us to be? So there's a fundamental piece of work first.

• 26:00Lewis Howes?

  Got it. What would be your personal philosophy?

• 26:02Michael Gervais?

  I'll, I'll, I'll share mine.

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  Cool.

• 26:04Michael Gervais?

  I've spent a lot of time with it and I'll tell, if I could tell a story of how it worked, I think it, it will

• 26:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:09Michael Gervais?

  harden it a little bit is that,

• 26:13Michael Gervais?

  so I needed a mentor when I was growing up and I'm thankful. What's up Gary? Like I'm thankful for Gary. He helped me out in so many different ways, even currently today.

• 26:23Michael Gervais?

  And so one day he says, Hey Mike, I want to introduce you to my mentor. Ah, great. I didn't know there was such a thing as like a grand mentor. Like, am I ready? And so, you know, it's this moment. I said, okay, here we go. And it was this, but to my surprise, it was this small, you know, two, uh, three bedroom, two bedroom, uh, three bedroom, two bath home. Um, and it was well manicured and it was this pleasant, like 78, 82 year old woman comes out. And I was just so pleasantly surprised, like, okay, this is going to get good because she just had that sense of wise woman. And it's the setting that you would imagine. The shag carpet was a little bit long. The drapes were just a little bit, you know,

• 27:07Michael Gervais?

  you know, outdated. And so we sat at the table and she's pouring me tea and, and she says, you know, uh, welcome. And so interested to meet you. And then we sat down and she said, so tell me what you're about. I said, okay, well,

• 27:25Michael Gervais?

  uh, what, well, the things that are most interests. Well, okay, let me start this way. And she looked at me and she looked at my mentor and she said, I thought you said he was ready.

• 27:35Michael Gervais?

  I am, I, I, I am ready. Wait, wait, no, no, I want to answer that. And she grabbed my tea and she said, you know, when you're ready, sweetie, I'd like to share this tea with you.

• 27:44Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 27:44Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So I was like, super embarrassed in that moment. Like, I thought I let my, my mentor down and, you know, it was like this really intense experience.

• 27:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow. How old were you?

• 27:54Michael Gervais?

  I was at that point, um, I was right after, it was like twenty six, twenty seven, somewhere in that range. And so I didn't know what to do. And so it was this awkward moment, but I knew that I had, I was not prepared to even answer the most basic question, who are you?

• 28:13Michael Gervais?

  And so that's where, that's where, I just want to anchor that because I think that that captures what most of us feel like a lot.

• 28:19Lewis Howes?

  Most people don't feel like they know who they are.

• 28:21Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. And so I had this dramatic moment for me, but, you know, I think it's a really important process to go through. So

• 28:30Michael Gervais?

  let's call it a personal philosophy, but then let's extract one, one level out from that. The greatest and the most influential people across the globe are very clear about their philosophy. The greatest movers and shakers and change makers are spiritual leaders and political leaders, for the most part. And now we're starting to see business leaders, you know, to do that.

• 28:51Michael Gervais?

  What was Confucius' philosophy? What was Buddha's philosophy? What was Jesus' philosophy? They're really clear. Jesus was, and I want to oversimplify a beautiful set of traditions, but Jesus was more about love and service. Buddha was more about, you know, um, that all people are suffering. And then so let's work through compassion to live with love and kindness. What was Martin Luther King Jr.'s? Dr. King Jr.'s was about equality, you know? Malcolm X, equality, totally different tone, totally different approach. Mother Teresa, Helen Keller, what was Helen Keller's? Like, okay, I'm gonna go for it. And like, I deserve to be educated as well. She changed the educational system. So the most influential people were very clear. Why?

• 29:33Michael Gervais?

  Because they lined up their thoughts, their words and actions to the thing that matters most to them. And that's what a philosophy is about. Everybody already has one. You have one, I have one. Whether we could articulate it at knife point in a dark alley, totally different element, right? And so I think that that's a night, nice litmus test. Like, could you get it out in front of a deranged person who's got a knife to your throat? Like, could you, do you, are you that clear what you stand for? And do you have your personal philosophy? So that's the litmus test for, for folks I work with. And I'll share mine. It's every day is an opportunity to create a living masterpiece. And so there's, there's optimism embedded in there. There's creative juices embedded in

• 30:14Michael Gervais?

  there. And then there's, you know, this idea of a living masterpiece. And so when I met Coach Carroll, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks about six years ago, six, seven years ago, one of our first conversations, it was, it was over dinner, mutual friend put us together. And we had this really wonderful conversation and it was born out of like, what is your philosophy? So he had been on the same similar journey, I should say, where he was fired from two head coach jobs in the NFL. And on, on the second time he was fired. So from pain creates change. Uncomfortableness is how we grow, but change is how we, I'm sorry, uncomfortableness is how we grow, but pain is why we change. So he experienced pain and said, if I get another

• 30:56Michael Gervais?

  chance, I'm going to do it exactly the way that is authentic to me. But I got to figure out what that is. So he just went and scratched down on, you know, multiple pads, spiral, you know, old school spiral notebooks, just wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote, took a second pass at it and said, what are the words that keep showing up? Circled those words, wrote more about those words. And that's how it eventually spilled out of him. His philosophy is always compete. Always compete for what you say? Always compete to be a great dad, to be a great coach, to be a great friend, to be a great partner, like always compete. And so he says at his core, he's a competitor and he's always trying to become better. And so, so he's built his whole

• 31:37Michael Gervais?

  life around, you know, that and including the Seattle Seahawks and USC before that. So, yeah, so philosophy is really important to us. And so that would be the most significant investment first.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  How can someone create their own philosophy?

• 31:51Michael Gervais?

  The three ways to do it. Okay. So now, now we're into some tactics, right? Which I think is really important as well. So the tactics, there's three ways to get clear. Be around wise people and have conversations about philosophy and wisdom, right? Be around them. If you don't know one, Go try to, they're rare, but you know, maybe pray about it, maybe talk about like, find wise people in your lives or become one.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:16Michael Gervais?

  Okay.

• 32:16Lewis Howes?

  Or you can watch videos of them or read their books to get started, you know?

• 32:19Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, and yes, start down that path. Nice, nice job, you know, and, and there's something about being in their presence, if you can, that, that is different.

• 32:27Lewis Howes?

  Of course, of course.

• 32:28Michael Gervais?

  Okay, and there's, you know, synagogues and churches and there's, there's folks that you can find these people and they don't have to be spiritual, they can be secular as well. So be around wise people, write, journal, you know, there's something about forcing words out of your native tongue, all the words of your native tongue, to write down the words and to have a forcing function to choose words that matter, like there's something about that. And then the last, the third is, and all of them are equally important, is listening. So mindfulness practice. So listening to, it's one of the most ancient mindfulness traditions is asking yourself, it's, it's called contemplative mindfulness, is ask yourself the question, who am I? And just go down that path, who am I? And you'll learn,

• 33:13Michael Gervais?

  you'll learn some ugly things, you'll learn some wonderful things, and you'll really learn who you are. And so those are three ways, right? And then there's another easy way, I don't know if it's on our website or whatever, but we've developed a philosophy primer, you know, and I don't think it's up on our website, but those would be the three tactics to get closer.

• 33:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:30Michael Gervais?

  You know, and then if I, if I, do you want me to go one click deeper?

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:34Michael Gervais?

  You know, if mechanically, what I would suggest you do is write down a list of all the people that really inspire you. Like who are those people? Just write down that list and you don't have to know them. Then write to the right of that column for each person, write down the characteristics that, that, that they embody, that, that inspiration comes from. So if it was like, so let's say Martin Luther King Jr. And you say, you know, courage, or intelligence, or people person, or conviction, okay, those words matter. And then as you go down your list, you'll start to see some characteristics, you'll start to see some stuff.

• 34:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Michael Gervais?

  And then once you're clear, um, I don't know, you, we, we talk about going from clarity to conviction. And that's, that's the entire arc of mental training is first you got to get some clarity, and then invest in your craft and invest in your, your mind. So that you can live a life of conviction.

• 34:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Michael Gervais?

  In any environment, you can be about you in any environment. And as humans, there's only three things we can train. Everything falls within one of these three buckets. We can train our body. You know, that professional sport, you know, and, and has done great to show us what that looks like. You can train your craft and we all have a craft. Right? Like athletics or arts or music. It's easy to see that, you know, your, your craft of interviewing and writing. And many more probably, but there's also other crafts that you have and that we all have. It might be things that we're not paid for, but we're passionate about.

• 34:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Michael Gervais?

  Okay. So it could be parenting. It could be guitar. It could be lots of different things. Okay. So you can train your body, you can train your craft and you can train your mind. That's it. Those are the only three. So we don't see training the mind as being extra. Who's got extra time nowadays? There's no extra. There's, it's fundamental to becoming your very best is training one of those three elements. And if you train all three of them, it's an accelerated path. That's, you know.

• 35:23Lewis Howes?

  What's the best way someone could train their mind on a daily basis? If they had 30 minutes a day.

• 35:27Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, good. So start with your philosophies. That's, that would be mental training, right? Get clear.

• 35:31Lewis Howes?

  Clear down your philosophy.

• 35:32Michael Gervais?

  That's the first part.

• 35:33Lewis Howes?

  Figure that out.

• 35:33Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. And that's lonely, deep, deep work. And that might take years. Or could pop right, spill right out of you, you know? It's a start now.

• 35:43Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. The Dalai Lama has something, or it was actually a former Dalai Lama said, enlightenment takes lifetimes or the next moment.

• 35:52Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So that's the first. And then the second, I would say, uh, the second largest pillar would be to invest in mindfulness. Uh, I'm happy to talk about that, but you can train confidence. You can train calm. You can train your ability to be focused in the present moment. Uh, you can train optimism, um, which is an accelerant, is an accelerant to mental toughness. I know that you have great value for training gratitude. And so, um, Martin Seligman did a wonderful piece of research out of UPenn that, um, just writing down at the end of the day, three amazing things that you experienced has a significant impact in, uh, life satisfaction. It can, it can impact your relationships. With others. If you are depressed, people that came into his study stabilized their depression.

• 36:36Michael Gervais?

  People that were not depressed that came into the study after, I think it was one month, three month and six month follow up. They had a significant overall increase in their overall life satisfaction. It's as simple as writing down three amazing things, right? And so that's one way to train optimism and gratitude. So there's lots of ways to do it and I don't know if you want a specific tactic.

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  Mindfulness, do you mean meditation or you mean other type of practice?

• 36:58Michael Gervais?

  So mindfulness, um, yeah, you can, you could substitute the word meditation for mindfulness. Meditation for, for us conjures up a term that there's a lot of stigma attached to. And that stigma is changing, but in, I spend most of my time in very rugged and hostile environments. And to talk about mindfulness in those environments is a stretch, you know, although, no, I'm sorry. To talk about meditation is the stretch mindfulness feels like, okay, mindfulness training. What is that? What's about increasing your awareness? Oh, yeah, that's important. Meditation has that all other baggage. So is it the same thing? Close mindfulness is a state and a skill. Meditation is the skill training mechanism for it.

• 37:43Michael Gervais?

  And so with, let's just for simplicity, call it mindfulness training. And I mean, I, I, do you want to go deeper? Well, if mindful, if the definition of mindfulness is the ability to be here now, to be where your feet are without judgment, without this, the noise. The idea is to get to the signal and the signal is always now and to gate out the noise. I mean, engineers right now are going, yeah, that's what it's about, you know, signal to noise ratio. But that's what it is for our minds as well. And remember our natural state of our mind is like a drunken monkey. So a disciplined mind, a still mind is rare. And mindfulness is increasing your ability to recognize when your mind is away from the present moment and bringing it back.

• 38:28Michael Gervais?

  And it's not about not having thoughts. That's, that's an old thought that most people are recognizing that that's not the case. But mindfulness is really about rec, uh, when you, once you recognize that your mind has wandered from a particular state or there's judgment around it. To gently bring it back to, to now. And that now can be a breath, it could be the next thought, whatever, right? And so there's two types of mindfulness, single point mindfulness training. And then the contemplative style. Single point mindfulness is as simple as focusing on one thing for an extended period of time. So master the inhale, then the exhale, and then master the inhale again, and then the exhale. So that's just focusing on your breathing, right? One breath at a time for, let's call it six, seven, eight minutes.

• 39:10Michael Gervais?

  That's the minimal effective dose to get some therapeutic effect from it. And then the optimal dose is 20 minutes a day, according to research and science.

• 39:18Lewis Howes?

  Focusing on single point.

• 39:19Michael Gervais?

  Just single point. And then so on your inhale, your mind will wander, right? And an inhale takes about four seconds. So just the inhale, your mind will wander. And then, once you notice that it's wandered, great, that's the moment of awareness. And then just bring it back gently, you know, swiftly, quickly. And so you're training the skill of refocus, you're training the skill of awareness. That's single point mindfulness. It could be a dot on the wall, it could be a mantra, it could be a sound, it could be your breath, it could be lots of things, right? That's single point. And then the other is contemplative, which is involves some sort of relaxation strategy to relax yourself, just like the single point. And then just watch, just watch what happens, watch your thoughts.

• 39:57Michael Gervais?

  You know, watch where thought A, how it transforms to B, to, to B1, to B2, to B3, to maybe over to C. And just watch without critiquing or judging and just go on that ride. And that's, um, that's the kind of the second tactic to mindfulness.

• 40:14Lewis Howes?

  Who are some of the most impressive performers you've worked with that you're allowed to talk about?

• 40:19Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, yeah, thank you for that. You know, there's so many that I would love to share with you. Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll do one that's nameless right now. And then I'll do a couple that I've been public about it. And this is one of the challenges of being licensed as a psychologist is that we create an environment between client and myself. We create an environment that is unlike anything else, where the sanctuary of trust and the depth of the conversation that we go in are, are like no other normal conversation. So out of respect and trust for the code that we've established, that I don't share names in that way. And, but some, some have been public and they've shared names. And so I'm happy to talk about, um, within scope of what I can talk about there.

• 41:03Michael Gervais?

  But there's an, there's a artist that I'm working with right now. And musician producer that has had, when he, he, he worked last year 50 nights and every night that he books, it's 1.6 million a night. So a significant global influencer from a music perspective. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. He's, you know, his music, everyone listening. But what's impressive is that it seems like they are from a different planet, but they're not. They're, they're, they're just like you and I. They're, they're humans that have the same exact ambitions, the same exact fears and worries, the same relationship struggles that

• 41:44Michael Gervais?

  we both have. And they have just figured out how to be more tuned to the signal than the noise. The signal meaning what? The present moment that is aligned with his philosophy and also matches the vision of how he'd like to see himself in the future. The vision of what he'd like to see. And one of the great psychologists of our era is, his name is Dr. Albert Brandor. And Dr. Albert Brandor introduced so many really influential theories about how the mind works and optimization. One of his theories is self-efficacy. Efficacy is a word for power. And part of having, uh, being an efficacious or powerful person is that we have clarity of how we would like our future to be. Yeah.

• 42:27Michael Gervais?

  It doesn't mean it's gonna happen now, right? Like, because you got it back in incredible work, but how, right? Imagination of having a vision of what that is, and then back into how to make that happen. This sounds so like, it sounds so simple and, you know, psychologists and, and folks for years have been talking about this. It really is powerful, though. It, it's a really powerful tactic to do. So, so anyways, um, this musician has the same fragility that you and I have, and at the same time is more attuned to the signal. And that's who, who am I, my philosophy? Where am I going, my vision? And then great awareness of my thoughts, words, and actions lining up to make that work. So they're better attuned to signal. Yeah.

• 43:11Michael Gervais?

  Okay. Now, I'd be remiss to not include, um, two world-class performers that I've learned so much from Felix Baumgartner. And so- You know, you might not recognize the name. Some people might, but he it was um he was the athlete in the Red Bull Stratos Project. And so the Red Bull Stratos Project, it was back in two thousand twelve, where a team of scientists and an athlete, Felix, were working to sort out what would happen if a human were to jump from the edges of space without a capsule. Oh, it was it was it was like it was a life changing experience for everyone involved.

• 43:47Lewis Howes?

  Crazy. I remember watching it on YouTube or something or wherever streaming. Yeah.

• 43:51Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, it was. What was your experience watching it?

• 43:54Lewis Howes?

  Um, my experience first was like, man, this guy must be in a lonely, isolated space right now. Physically, but also mentally. I'm sure there was earpiece and, you know, he had communication, radio and everything, but the place your mind goes with that much time, like the more you rise and the pressure you're feeling and all the worries and fears of what could go wrong and feeling like I'm alone in this situation. Even though there's millions of people watching and I have people in my ear or whatever it was, I don't know if it was an earpiece or if there was a radio communication. I'm assuming there was, yeah. Even with that, they're however many miles away from me right now, and I'm by myself here. No one can save me or help me, essentially.

• 44:37Lewis Howes?

  Something goes wrong, it's over. So the amount of fear, pressure, uncertainty, uh insecurity, what could go wrong? What if the whole world sees me die or fail? You know, all of that. And so I was just wondering how he was able to train for that.

• 44:54Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So, um, okay, great insight because the loneliness that comes from pushing on your edges is a real human experience and it's so it's so hard to push right on the edge of instability. Psychological, emotional instability is really hard to do. For a long time, we thought we could get people there from physical exertion, you know, get their heart rate pounding. It's like, you know, that's not quite it. That's it's, yeah, I see how you're responding to that. That's not it's it's pushing to the edges of emotional instability, emotional capacity.

• 45:30Michael Gervais?

  And so if you don't practice that, you cannot, you cannot become the best version. And it's a little bit like a balloon, right? So you blow air into a balloon and it stretches. And then there's more space inside the balloon to play. Okay? And then it contracts. And if you blow more air into it, and that blowing of air is pushing to the capacity of the balloon. Two breaths, it's like, okay, there's even more space, but there's lots more to go, right? There's 20, 40.

• 45:58Lewis Howes?

  What if it pops?

• 45:59Michael Gervais?

  That's, that's the interesting, yeah.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  When's it gonna pop? How much can it go?

• 46:02Michael Gervais?

  It actually doesn't.

• 46:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:03Michael Gervais?

  You know, so we have this fear about like psychologically cracking. Now, that can hap- it can happen. I'm putting an asterisk next to it. But it is so rare that a person in so extreme circum- such extreme circumstances, that a person mentally has a breakdown. It's actually more rare than we think. What we're actually feeling most of the time for people is this chronic level of stress where we feel overwhelmed, but we're not ready to break. That's not, that's not what's happening. We're just exhausted. We're overwhelmed. Yeah, fatigued. We're, and in modern times, like, we're not sleeping enough.

• 46:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we're emotionally overwhelmed, our nutrition is bad, or whatever.

• 46:41Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 46:41Lewis Howes?

  Relationships, everything.

• 46:42Michael Gervais?

  We, on the world stage, we don't talk about working harder.

• 46:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Michael Gervais?

  That, that's a given. Everyone on the world stage is like grinding, you know, at, at a world-class clip. We spend more time on the science and art of recovery, you know, to get that right so that we can wake up tomorrow.

• 46:56Lewis Howes?

  And form high again.

• 46:57Michael Gervais?

  Be ready, you know, for, for what? Pushing against the limits, physically and emotionally.

• 47:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Michael Gervais?

  You know, that's it. Okay, so back to.

• 47:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, Felix.

• 47:06Michael Gervais?

  Back to Felix.

• 47:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:08Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, he changed, he changed the way the world understands what's possible. And he pushed right up against his limits. Now, this was like a multiple-year project. About halfway through the project, he reached a limit where he became claustrophobic. And he wasn't able to be in his space suit anymore. And that, that's where I was asked to be part of the project, you know, could we work with his mind to extinguish fear?

• 47:34Michael Gervais?

  Wow.

• 47:35Lewis Howes?

  No pressure.

• 47:36Michael Gervais?

  The stakes were high.

• 47:37Lewis Howes?

  No pressure.

• 47:37Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, and I, I, I look back in that experience and all the bright minds and the scientists that were part of it. Beautiful experience and yes, we successfully helped Felix extinguish his fear of being in the suit so that he could have clarity and command of his mind to execute a lifelong dream that he had, as well as change the nature of what the rest of us think is possible.

• 47:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. What were some of the things you guys did?

• 48:01Michael Gervais?

  Well, there was, there was, yeah, so all this philosophy and vision that we just talked about.

• 48:04Lewis Howes?

  Helped him get his philosophy on his, uh, on who he is.

• 48:07Michael Gervais?

  On who he is, you know.

• 48:08Lewis Howes?

  Did he have that before?

• 48:09Michael Gervais?

  Well, we all have it, but could we get it out under knife point?

• 48:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:12Michael Gervais?

  You know, and so ideally you want to try to get it down to a page and then try to get down to 25 words.

• 48:17Lewis Howes?

  And then a sentence or whatever.

• 48:18Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, or, or maybe like three words or whatever, you know, so.

• 48:21Lewis Howes?

  What did he come up with?

• 48:22Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, that's not public.

• 48:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 48:24Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, that's a great question. I wish it was. There's gonna be a documentary coming out.

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure, he'll share that.

• 48:29Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, so it's coming out soon, so I'm sure he'll share that.

• 48:31Lewis Howes?

  Assuming it's breaking limits or something, you know.

• 48:34Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, it'll be, you know.

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 48:35Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:36Lewis Howes?

  Anything's possible, you know, or, yeah, something. You didn't say it, but I'm saying.

• 48:41Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, that's good. And so, um, okay, so that was part of it. And then the other part is, um, if we need to extinguish fear, so anyone that's, you know.

• 48:49Lewis Howes?

  Before you go there, when he got clear on that, did a lot of his fears start to fade then, or was there so much more that needed to happen?

• 48:56Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, there's still more, right? Then we need to actually train the mind. So getting clear, clarity is really great.

• 49:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:03Michael Gervais?

  It's the foundation.

• 49:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:04Michael Gervais?

  And then it's like the two anchors, clarity and, I'm sorry, philosophy and vision are two really important pillars or anchors in the system. And then, and then the space between clarity and conviction is, is the place of training the mind. So we spent time identifying the thoughts that got in his way. And then we spent time on strategies on, um, how to change those thoughts to, or work with those thoughts to have more optimal productive, progressive thoughts.

• 49:30Lewis Howes?

  Can you give an example of?

• 49:31Michael Gervais?

  Um, maybe not for him.

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  General example, yeah.

• 49:34Michael Gervais?

  General example, yeah, yeah, cool.

• 49:35Lewis Howes?

  Um, I'm afraid I'm gonna die.

• 49:37Michael Gervais?

  This shit again. You know, like, that's a thought, like, I gotta do this shit again. That's one, something like that. Or another one would be like. Oh my God, the pressure's really on today.

• 49:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:47Michael Gervais?

  Or something like, man, I'm gonna let some people down. It's all the stuff that we've already talked about. But it's increasing the awareness of that destructive, negative, counterproductive thought.

• 49:58Lewis Howes?

  So if we're forever gonna look bad, or if we're gonna let someone down, what's something we could do to reframe that?

• 50:03Michael Gervais?

  Uh, go, well, okay, so go back to your philosophy. It probably doesn't have anything to do with others, you know, like, like living to their standards. It probably has to do with caring about others, not caring what they think about you. Right? Somewhere in that range. So there's a, there's this necessary work, I think, that is required for most of us, which is a decoupling between what we do and who we are. And if you can pull those two things apart and no longer be bound by, by I am what I do. And if you can pull those two things apart. Then, then there's great freedom. And it's the freedom to say, you know, I can love you and not give a shit what you think about me.

• 50:45Michael Gervais?

  And if you can find that space to love other people as best as you possibly can, which is, can only happen by the way that you love yourself. Right? So our relationship with ourself is really important. So I love you and I don't care what you think about me anymore. Incredible freedom on that side. So we needed to get some of that.

• 51:04Michael Gervais?

  Uh, the other part was recognizing the, the, the counterproductive thoughts, having a way to work with those thoughts to get over to something that is more productive, more positive. And that sounds all wonderful, but the, the way that you do that is that you've gotta be credible with what you say to yourself.

• 51:20Lewis Howes?

  Credible.

• 51:20Michael Gervais?

  Credible. You can't say to yourself like, I'm a tough MF'er.

• 51:25Lewis Howes?

  And you're not.

• 51:26Michael Gervais?

  If you haven't done the work.

• 51:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Michael Gervais?

  You know, like, wha- what was your first sport?

• 51:32Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I played everything.

• 51:33Michael Gervais?

  Football.

• 51:34Lewis Howes?

  I played basketball, football.

• 51:35Michael Gervais?

  Basketball, football, yeah.

• 51:36Lewis Howes?

  Football in college and then.

• 51:37Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, that's what I thought. So let's say football.

• 51:39Lewis Howes?

  I play with the USA handball team right now still.

• 51:40Michael Gervais?

  Oh, yeah, I knew that. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. Okay, so let's, let's go eye-hand coordination or something, you know? And if I say, yeah, I'm frigging, I'm, I'm good at that now. And then you say, oh, okay, cool, let's go play. I just, I'm not, I'm not as good as you and I'm, I'm certainly not as good as I could be. I haven't trained it, so I'm gonna get exposed. So I can't say to myself, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna take him down. I can't, I can't say that.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  Can't fake it.

• 52:04Michael Gervais?

  You can't, there's, there was.

• 52:06Lewis Howes?

  Some ways you could fake it to make it, but you gotta put in the reps and.

• 52:08Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, the, the, there was some, some. Idea, there's some scant research on fake it till you make it. I just cannot nod my head to that idea. Yeah, it's like you've changing your phys- your physical body posture does not alone change your thoughts. The awareness that you've got a bad posture and the awareness that you've got negative thoughts, that's the game. Increasing the awareness of what's happening inside of you. And then this, so it's a two-part game, awareness and then the skill to refocus.

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Michael Gervais?

  Okay.

• 52:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:41Michael Gervais?

  And then so if you're gonna say that I'm a stud at something, or I'm good at something, or whatever, like I've got what it takes, then what we say is for every epic thought that you're gonna have, write down at least three reasons that give you the right to say that thought.

• 52:51Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:52Michael Gervais?

  So we call that backing it up.

• 52:53Lewis Howes?

  I practice every day for two hours, because I do this, because I've had these results.

• 52:56Michael Gervais?

  I've done this, I've done that, like I've owned it here, I've owned it there. And if I've done that, I can do this, right? And so it's like you gotta back it up.

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:03Michael Gervais?

  But just saying it to yourself, um, you know, thoughts are invisible, so they're hard to work with. So write it down, you know, get it out of your head, externalize that that hard drive that is so powerful for all of us, our thoughts, our mind is invisible. So get it out of your head. So, so we did that, some of that work, we did a bunch of breathing work, we did a bunch of mindfulness work, um, and just re-anchored him to like, how is he gonna tell this part of his story? So that's a nice way to kind of think about in the future, how are you gonna tell the story to yourself, this moment in time, this phase of your life? How would you tell it to your unborn son?

• 53:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:37Michael Gervais?

  You know, whatever, like how will you tell the story? And so that helps to shape uh, and govern behavior as well.

• 53:43Lewis Howes?

  That I failed miserably, or that you-

• 53:45Michael Gervais?

  Well, that I got scared and I couldn't do it. That's okay. But that just needs to be your authentic story.

• 53:50Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 53:50Michael Gervais?

  Or, I, you know, so there's, there's, in high stakes environments, there's only a few outcomes that you, for story. I trained, I, and I backed off, right? Because of the fear, like I got to the edge and then I backed off. That's one story. Another story is I trained ridiculously, I got to the edge and I jumped and I died. You don't get to tell the story, but that is the story.

• 54:15Lewis Howes?

  I went for it.

• 54:15Michael Gervais?

  I went for it, right? Uh, the third story is that I trained ridiculously, I got to the edge and I hesitated, I worked it out and I committed and I, you know, it was successful, you know? So there's only like, in binary situations, there's only three outcomes.

• 54:31Lewis Howes?

  To his situation.

• 54:33Michael Gervais?

  Well, I think to all of ours, actually. Yeah. The stakes are really high in life. You only get one pass at it as we know, as we can confirm. There might be multiple eyes. I, you know, I don't know that science. Um, there's lots of traditions that would suggest that. But so we get one go at it and we only get one go at this moment. So the work really is the stakes are really high. If we only get fourteen hundred and forty minutes a day, that's it. That's all we get. And then once one is spent, you can't get it back. So the stakes are super high. Life is happening. It's happening fast and we're, we're really busy as a human race. So figuring out how to be more present more often.

• 55:12Michael Gervais?

  The stakes could not be higher. And so that's why training the mind to be here now is feels fundamental. It doesn't feel like it's extra. And if you can't train your mind to be in this present moment, you cannot access your craft.

• 55:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:23Michael Gervais?

  The thing that you care most about parenting or business or communication or sport, whatever it might be.

• 55:30Lewis Howes?

  You know, there's people that I feel like they're isolating their minds a lot. They feel alone. Even when there's people around or there's a team around them, they feel alone and isolated. Uh, and especially when there's not a team around them, you know, Felix had a team, but no one was actually physically touching him and like, you got this, you know, he was by himself in a capsule, right? For how long was the ride up and?

• 55:53Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, five plus hours.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  Five hours.

• 55:55Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Lewis Howes?

  So for those that feel, you know, alone, like they're about to go out on stage or they're alone in the interview or they're alone in whatever game. Uh, you know, tennis match where you're just by yourself there and everyone's watching. How can we, is it just like what you said, it's a little bit of the breathing, the philosophy, you know, reframing the thoughts? Is that how we can continue to make sure that when these high stakes moments are happening, obviously every moment is high stake. But when it's like, the whole world is watching high stakes, how can we?

• 56:26Lewis Howes?

  I don't know, just overcome those moments of isolation and fear in that moment.

• 56:30Michael Gervais?

  I want to be really thoughtful about that because it's, it's a really important conversation to have. And the first part of deconstructing that is that just because people are watching, if you haven't done the work to say, I love you. And at the same time, I don't care what you think of me. I'm not going to be beholden to what my imagination tells me you might be thinking of me.

• 56:51Lewis Howes?

  That's the first thing.

• 56:52Michael Gervais?

  It's really important.

• 56:53Lewis Howes?

  Caring, but not caring.

• 56:54Michael Gervais?

  No, the first thing I think is to genuinely love other people, right? To start there.

• 57:00Lewis Howes?

  No matter what they think of you.

• 57:01Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, no matter what, like that's not, that's. You never really know anyways, like as much as we're having a really cool conversation now. And let's say we did this conversation every day for the rest of our lives and we really went under and under and under the surface. It's still, I think, would be almost impossible for you to know me. I don't think it's possible for another human to really know another human. And I've been in my relationship with my wife for, you know, twenty, I should know this, like married twenty two years, but dated before that for a number of years. Like for, you know, sub thirty years. And it's still, it's still a mystery that's unfolding. So to really love another person, not, but not care what they think of you, that's the first part.

• 57:45Michael Gervais?

  So when you do that, you find more freedom and that freedom to go on stage, if you will, to use that analogy. It just changes the nature of the moment. Cause it moves from a threat based opportunity, a threat based experience to an opportunity based experience. What's the opportunity to express the ideas that you care a lot about? You know, but and hold that opportunity with high regard because you're asking other people to be present with you on, on the ideas that you have found to be important. And then there's a high responsibility to be able to articulate as clearly as you can. You know, with regard for other people's attention. So that, that, that's the first thing that I would suggest to do. That's great. Yeah. And then so how do we know how to love others? We have to figure out how to love ourselves. And it sounds really soft.

• 58:29Michael Gervais?

  And I spend my time in the most alpha competitive rugged environments. You know, Seattle Seahawks are full alpha competitors. Yeah. And I've been fortunate enough to learn and be part of that ecosystem for a number of years with Coach Carroll. And Felix Baumgartner, alpha male, the most intense human being that you'll find. If, if it doesn't work with those types of people, Kerry Lee Walsh Jennings. You know, um, four time Olympian gold medalist, you know, unbelievable alpha competitor. And it, it keeps coming back to the relationship you have with yourself. First, so the dialogue and the conversations we have with ourself are really important. We are our best coach or our worst coach. We are our best friend or our worst friend. We are our,

• 59:12Michael Gervais?

  you know, an asset to ourselves, or we are a debilitating to our future. And so that's where it begins. And without awareness, every world-class athlete, and that's a huge word I just said, every, every world-class athlete that really is interested in pursuing their best, they have great awareness. There are knuckleheads that eat McDonald's, that show up, they're freaks of nature, they don't train.

• 59:38Lewis Howes?

  They usually don't sustain that for, you know, a decade of time. It's like a couple of years and then something happens.

• 59:44Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, a thousand percent agree with you, you know, and but those that are deeply pursuing their personal best, awareness is part of the mix. Yeah, and that's a trainable skill.

• 59:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:56Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, mindfulness is the way to train it.

• 59:57Lewis Howes?

  Who's the most impressive, uh, trained mind, human that you've seen?

• 1:00:03Michael Gervais?

  I don't, I don't want to answer that.

• 1:00:04Lewis Howes?

  Don't answer it because you work with so many clients.

• 1:00:07Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, they're saying, is it me? You know, like, I, I'll tell you this statement, humans are amazing.

• 1:00:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:12Michael Gervais?

  People are amazing. We are not fragile psychologically and emotionally. We can do amazing things. And so I've got stories in my head right now of an athlete who, I asked, what was your hardest moment in your life? He said, you know, you'd think it was when my mom was chasing me around the house with a two by four nails in it to kill me, that that would be the hardest time, but it wasn't. The hardest time of my life, and he's a, he's an elite athlete right now.

• 1:00:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Michael Gervais?

  The hardest time in my life is repeatedly showing up and all of my things, and my family's things were on the lawn because we're evicted again.

• 1:00:49Lewis Howes?

  That was the hardest time.

• 1:00:50Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So to be able to go from those places, to be able to, you know, I don't know, who cares what they drive, but they drive the nicest cars, wonderful houses.

• 1:00:59Lewis Howes?

  Private jets.

• 1:00:59Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, but to tap into their potential and to know what it feels like to be an, an artist of craft, of words or movement. You know, like we are, people are not fragile. We have fragile body parts.

• 1:01:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:13Michael Gervais?

  Body parts break.

• 1:01:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Michael Gervais?

  You know, and some are, some are so intense that they could take life. But for the most part, we are really robust.

• 1:01:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:22Michael Gervais?

  Highly resilient.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  Is it possible to reach our potential? Or is it always expanding?

• 1:01:27Michael Gervais?

  I love that question. The word potential is problematic. Right? Because it's a crippling for many people. Oh, you have so much potential. Uh oh.

• 1:01:37Lewis Howes?

  You know, like It's like the pressure's on now, right?

• 1:01:39Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. Well, because of the way that we've just interpreted what that means. And that usually that pressure

• 1:01:44Lewis Howes?

  More you can do.

• 1:01:45Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:45Lewis Howes?

  Do it. Oh, he's not doing what he could do, or she could do.

• 1:01:48Michael Gervais?

  That's right.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  They could do.

• 1:01:49Michael Gervais?

  And then, but that, that, there's like this thought that comes with it, like, oh, that person sees potential in me. So I don't want to let that person down. So that's why we gotta go back to that decoupling. Who I am from what I do. Also, the decoupling of loving other people and not caring what they think. But when somebody sees potential, it can be a great gift if we say, yes, there is more. Show me how. You know, like, what do you see? Well, I see this. What do you see, Mike? I never saw that. Really? You think that's possible? I mean, we have to be around people like that to bring the best, you know, out of us, to really challenge us to say, that's not good enough. I love you. But that's not good enough.

• 1:02:24Lewis Howes?

  That's what a great coach does. Yeah. I'm sure Coach Carroll is doing that constantly. Like, we gotta be better every day. How do we step up?

• 1:02:30Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. The Seattle Seahawks, under Coach Carroll's guidance, is a relationship-based organization. We produce football. And some, some alpha, alpha, tough minded people, right? But we are a relationship-based organization. It begins with our relation, that there are each person's relationship with themselves. And then, so we can have a great relationship with others. Because to do extraordinary things, we don't do it alone. There's always other people. But most of the time, the execution is alone. Yeah. So Felix is alone. That loneliness that you were talking about before is a real deal. It's one of the six, we call it the six dimensions of being human, like. Every human has that place, that recess in their experience where they are truly lonely.

• 1:03:12Michael Gervais?

  Going back to that thought that I'm not sure that others can really know all of you. So there's an aloneness. We come into the world alone, we leave it alone. I'm not sure what happens, you know, in between after death, but that loneliness and tapping into it and feeling it, knowing it, being familiar with it. That's a very powerful experience to do. And I know it's super heavy. But it's really important.

• 1:03:34Lewis Howes?

  I remember I used to be really insecure growing up and scared to be alone. I hated to be by myself. And when I was like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. And then in my early twenties, I was just like, I am gonna conquer this. Because I just hate the feeling of feeling scared or like no one cares or whatever, being alone. And so I said, okay, I'm gonna go out as often as I can by myself. I'm gonna go to dinner by myself, a movie by myself, I'm gonna like take walks by myself, whatever it was, I was gonna be alone. And start to learn more about myself. And that craft or that art or that practice was one of the best things for me. Because now it's like, I love being alone.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  In certain moments, I love being around other people, but then I'm like, okay, I need some space to actually be alone. And I'll go to dinner by myself and go to movies by myself still. And I find it powerful, personally.

• 1:04:28Michael Gervais?

  Where did that come from? That for you, that?

• 1:04:31Lewis Howes?

  It was just, I was afraid. I just hated the feeling of being alone. I just didn't like that feeling because I didn't have much friends growing up. And so I was just like, no one's gonna like me. What's wrong with me? You know, why am I not good enough to have like friends? And then I was just like, screw it, I gotta figure out who I am, I think at that time, and start to fall in love with myself. So I just wanted to discover who I was and figure out all these things then.

• 1:04:55Michael Gervais?

  It's a beautiful model that you're describing because from pain.

• 1:04:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:58Michael Gervais?

  Right? Is a wonderful impetus to go on a journey of self-discovery. And part of that self-discovery journey, it's a requirement to push on the edges of instability. And for you, being alone, there was those edges. And really, it's about alone with your thoughts.

• 1:05:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16Michael Gervais?

  But alone is different than loneliness.

• 1:05:20Michael Gervais?

  So loneliness is that sixth dimension I was talking about, even in a group of, surrounded by a group of friends or loved ones.

• 1:05:26Lewis Howes?

  Feel lonely.

• 1:05:27Michael Gervais?

  You can still feel desperately alone, lonely. And so, yeah, it sounds like you've done exactly what, um, I've seen so many people that are on the path to mastery do. Is that they push on their edges as often as they possibly can and they're hungry for it. And it's not like there, there are some that are unsettled by not doing enough. There are some of those, but there is a general sense of like, man, I put a solid day of work in today. Can I do this again tomorrow? Yeah, okay, let's, let's get it right.

• 1:05:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:58Michael Gervais?

  You know, there's that sort of tone to get natural. It sounds like you, you did exactly that.

• 1:06:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, for me, it's just like, I had a lot of emotional, mental pain growing up. And I was just like, I don't want to feel this anymore.

• 1:06:09Michael Gervais?

  Did you adopt, did you adopt the model like I need to do more? Is that why you got into elite sport?

• 1:06:14Lewis Howes?

  Um, I think early on, it was just like, I didn't have any friends. And I remember getting picked last on sports teams a lot, like in elementary school. And I was just, I hated that feeling of not being wanted or needed, or like that was good enough. And so I just said, I'm going to be the best in the world at what I can do so that I'm always needed.

• 1:06:31Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:32Lewis Howes?

  It was kind of like that early drive.

• 1:06:33Michael Gervais?

  That's right.

• 1:06:34Lewis Howes?

  It left me feeling very unfulfilled, trying to prove others wrong. You know, I would achieve, I was all state in multiple sports, all American, you know, whatever. But it was like, I was always unhappy. It wasn't enough, so it drove me to do more. Until I realized I was doing it for the wrong reasons. Like, yes, I found joy in my craft and I was like fun and all these things, but at the end of the day, when I achieved the, the goals, it was so unfulfilling.

• 1:06:57Michael Gervais?

  That's, that, that, that's that model I was referring to that is broken. We need to do more to be more. It, it never arrives.

• 1:07:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Michael Gervais?

  The being, it never arrives, you know, so we need to be more, be more of yourself. And each one of us has an authentic self that is wanting and craving to be expressed. And that journey of self-discovery is a lifelong journey.

• 1:07:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:20Michael Gervais?

  It's wonderful, it's hard, it's rare.

• 1:07:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Michael Gervais?

  And it sounds like, you know, from pain that you, you figured out a broken model?

• 1:07:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:28Michael Gervais?

  And then figured out like, like, okay, that didn't work. And now what is the upgraded model? Okay, I gotta figure out who I am and like be about it.

• 1:07:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, when I started to figure out like, okay, all these achievements I'm, I'm having, acquiring, aren't filling me up. Then I started to shift my model even more. I was like, okay, why am I doing these things? And what's the reason I'm going to be doing these things moving in the in the future? And started shifting from trying to prove people wrong to trying to lift people up. And you know, lift myself up and show myself what I'm capable of creating. And to also have a more loving, joyful experience.

• 1:08:05Lewis Howes?

  But I'm always thinking of like, where's my biggest pain? And how can I look at it straight in the eye? Kind of embrace it to a point that I like. Go deep within and see why I'm feeling this pain. And then how can I work on it and practice on it? So it's just, you know, I can be alone for weeks and be okay, you know? I don't need to be worried anymore because I've done years of practice. You know, same thing with girls. I was terrified of like talking to girls when I was a teenager. And I gave myself a summer project where every day, whenever I felt nervous around a girl. Just a random girl I didn't know, I was going to go up to her and say hello. And then go up and ask for a number and then, you know, try to ask for a date. It terrified me to do this.

• 1:08:47Lewis Howes?

  But I was just like, I don't want to be afraid to be able to just have a conversation with another human being. Just because they're attractive or whatever. And so I tried to find that in every area of my life at every stage. You know, it was public speaking in my early twenties, I was terrified to speak. So I went to Toastmasters every week and practiced and. You know, stuttered in front of people and just continued to fumble until I gained a little more confidence and put in the reps. So for me, it's all about discovering the pain. Having a clear vision of what I want to overcome and then just putting in the reps. Like a like a trained athlete in life.

• 1:09:18Michael Gervais?

  It's, yeah, it as simple as you make it sound. And as simple as we want it to be, it is that simple.

• 1:09:25Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 1:09:25Michael Gervais?

  It but it and it's hard.

• 1:09:27Lewis Howes?

  Terrifying.

• 1:09:28Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:28Lewis Howes?

  But I look at it as like a sport, you know? As long as I have someone who can like. Give me a little coaching. Or just say, go try this and here's the game plan. Then I can be the athlete student and say, okay, I'm just going to put in the six hours of practice today and. I'll report back and give me feedback. I just so I apply everything from my sports training into life.

• 1:09:50Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, it's really good. You know, sport gives us so much.

• 1:09:53Lewis Howes?

  So much.

• 1:09:54Michael Gervais?

  And at the same time, every craft can offer the same exact opportunities, right? Sport is just so tangible.

• 1:10:01Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 1:10:01Michael Gervais?

  Physically observable. But every craft offers us, even parenting, you know, like. Where do we go to get better at parenting? Where are those people that help us? You know, there's a couple manuals. You know, and. Ideally, those people are supposed to be psychologists. But unfortunately.

• 1:10:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:20Michael Gervais?

  Psychology was born out of studying what was broken in the human mind. And it's just, it hasn't been to the last thirty years that we're really advancing the science of.

• 1:10:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Michael Gervais?

  The optimal ways to use your mind.

• 1:10:32Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:10:33Michael Gervais?

  And so it's like, you know, before the mics turned on, you asked, like, what are you excited about? I'm so excited about this point in time right now. That people are really finding value and interest in how to condition their mind. And it's this incredible swell that's taking over. The industry is exploding.

• 1:10:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Michael Gervais?

  The, the value of being present is talked about all the time, mindfulness and, and strategies. And we're seeing the swell even in the most rugged sports like, like the NFL. Six years ago, there was one and a half sports psychologists. And now over half team, half of the teams of the thirty two teams have a sports psychologist.

• 1:11:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:11:13Michael Gervais?

  You know, so that's like saying, yeah, we've always known that the mind is important. And that now there's this group of people that are highly skilled at it to be able to condition it. So it's like, God, it's, it's really an exciting time.

• 1:11:25Lewis Howes?

  The greatest coaches from the past, like the Woodens and the Lombardies were almost like modern day psychologists at the time.

• 1:11:31Michael Gervais?

  They're phenomenal.

• 1:11:32Lewis Howes?

  They were the ones who were able to like connect on relationship level and the mental level with their players. It sounds like, otherwise there's, and the Phil Jacksons of the world, otherwise there's no way they would have been champions that many years. Without having the mental game like mastered or trying to master it and building that relationship with their athletes.

• 1:11:51Michael Gervais?

  So that's how the field, the entire industry and the science of sports psychology started is, okay, there's a question like, how did the best work?

• 1:11:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Michael Gervais?

  Well, let's go study them. And so you're right on the money. And if you just look at like great coaches, let's call it sixty years ago, they did everything. They, they nutrition, physical training, technical training, mindset, you know, they did.

• 1:12:12Lewis Howes?

  Breathing, whatever.

• 1:12:13Michael Gervais?

  They did everything.

• 1:12:14Lewis Howes?

  Recovery, everything, yeah.

• 1:12:15Michael Gervais?

  Right. And then some progressive coaches said, hey, you know, if we got these strength coach guys in here. You know, maybe we go bigger, faster, stronger, have a fourth quarter advantage, so to speak. And then that started to work.

• 1:12:27Lewis Howes?

  So everyone has a strength and conditioning coach.

• 1:12:28Michael Gervais?

  Right. So now bigger, faster, stronger. And then what do you need? You need medical because they're bigger, faster, stronger, working at a higher clip. Right. So you need better medical, ATCs and medical, medical and all of that that comes with it, PTs and ATCs. And then what happens is nutrition. So we saw that wave 10 years ago, right? It's obvious nutrition is part of the game. It's part of the fuel. And then, so now we're in this current wave where it's Mind training. So it's a competitive advantage. Where do we go next? Let me finish on the mind thing. It is a competitive advantage to know your mind, to condition your mind. We call it front loading. So you want to do your mental skills front loading.

• 1:13:08Michael Gervais?

  So you get there ahead of time of the test, right before the lights are on. You're visualizing. You train your mind before. You train optimism, calm, confidence. Where's confidence come from? What you say to yourself. That's it. It's not your past success. It's not if you you do well in the warmups. That's a totally broken model. So you know, you can train all of these things in a very structured way. And then, because it's really hard to show up on what's called an ultra marathon and physically bunk. You put in a lot of physical training, but then you overtrain, maybe you get to that ultra or you get to the marathon even. And then you bunk. That sucks. But you know what happens a lot for most people? They do all the physical, technical training. They show up and they tighten up and constrict.

• 1:13:49Michael Gervais?

  That's a mental error. That's right. So constriction and expansion, those are the two kind of threads that we're working on. What are the thoughts that create expansion, space? What are the thoughts that create constriction or smallness? And, you know, we're responsible for that in our mind. So it's a really exciting time. Where do we go next? Probably spirit. Probably spirituality is like Really? Yeah, a reconnecting to To a higher purpose. Yeah, that's probably where human evolution is going to go next, like a real investment there. Along with technology, like there's going to be some genomic, you know, microsplicing that's taking place as we're following right now that,

• 1:14:31Michael Gervais?

  you know, blue eyes, blonde hair, like that scary type of thing, you know, is like, it's, it's real. But then have you, are you following some of this stuff? Not much. Okay, so right now we think about, you know, competitive advantage, train your mind, your body, your craft, you know, great, great, great. But what if you want to become the fastest human? What if we want to create the fastest human, but we take ostrich legs and put it with a human upper frame? It's real. According to result, according to lab research, they are, they are surviving in Petri dishes.

• 1:15:07Michael Gervais?

  So how far away away from that? I don't know. Like what, what happens?

• 1:15:11Lewis Howes?

  What is surviving?

• 1:15:12Michael Gervais?

  That, what I just described.

• 1:15:13Lewis Howes?

  A human top and a ostrich legs?

• 1:15:16Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:16Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 1:15:17Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean? How?

• 1:15:18Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. I mean, this is, I'll, I'll show you all this stuff. Like it, yeah. Take, take a look at CRISPR. It, it is.

• 1:15:25Lewis Howes?

  Is it like creating a human from scratch or is it?

• 1:15:29Michael Gervais?

  My, it's genomic splicing.

• 1:15:32Lewis Howes?

  From nothing? Or is it a human with no legs that they're putting legs on?

• 1:15:36Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So take the DNA of an, of an embryo, right? The DNA of a human and DNA of an ostrich. Put it together.

• 1:15:42Lewis Howes?

  Already.

• 1:15:42Michael Gervais?

  Sequencing those, those.

• 1:15:44Lewis Howes?

  I didn't know they were testing that specifically.

• 1:15:46Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. Chris, check out CRISPR.

• 1:15:48Lewis Howes?

  How big is this grown or what?

• 1:15:50Michael Gervais?

  Well, it's scaring us. It's scaring a lot of people right now. You know, like a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people are talking about AI and how that's going to influence human performance. That's 10 years out. You know, five years, 10, five to 10 years, that's really going to take hold. I think that's my predictions. I'm not bullish on it yet. It is coming. Right? Like some of the companies that I've been exposed to, like that stuff is really cool.

• 1:16:10Lewis Howes?

  Some of those cool like dog robot things are pretty.

• 1:16:12Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, there's some stuff there. It's just not there yet.

• 1:16:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Michael Gervais?

  The most powerful thing that we can do is train our mind. Artificial intelligence is the closest cousin we can get to it.

• 1:16:22Lewis Howes?

  That's gonna take a while.

• 1:16:23Michael Gervais?

  Watching tape and, and, and watching film is a reduction of down from that. But playing the tape in your mind ahead of time, it's the most powerful tool we have, but it requires discipline. It requires focus. The, and, but we can train those. Right? Okay. But AI is going to help get people that are bit, no, it's going to help people with the undisciplined mind to get better at it.

• 1:16:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:16:46Michael Gervais?

  But it's still, it's still clunky. There's lots of friction around it.

• 1:16:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:49Michael Gervais?

  But micro genomic splicing is coming.

• 1:16:52Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy. When I was a decathlete in college, I would, we were, I was just training all day for every sport. But at night, my weakest sport was the pole vault because I had very much, very little training on it. And I had six months where I decided I'm going to try the decathlon and I'm going to try to be an all American in six months when I made the decision. And I hadn't done a lot of the events, so I had a six month window. And pole vault was the hardest. I was maybe like a 10 foot pole vault, pole vault, pole vaulter and was horrible form and everything. I would watch this pole vaulting hour-long video highlight tape every single night, over and over again, for that whole time. I would plug

• 1:17:33Lewis Howes?

  it in as my VHS tape and TV at the time in my dorm room and just watch it until I fell asleep. And then I would go in the next morning and try to just mimic the greatest pole vaulters in the world. And throughout the whole day, I was just visualizing my form and proving a little by little and seeing myself go over the bar. And it was one of the most powerful things. I mean, that's when really I saw the power of visualization. It was kind of during the decathlon training because everything was so technical.

• 1:18:01Michael Gervais?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Lewis Howes?

  Every movement of the shot put, the pole vault, the javelin is so technical.

• 1:18:06Michael Gervais?

  Kinetic sequencing that is so cool in that sport.

• 1:18:08Lewis Howes?

  And having to see like the lineup and the hips of just everything and the discus or whatever. I was just trying to watch the perfect way to do it and try to replicate it every single day. But I'm, you know, one of the biggest believers in visualization for everything.

• 1:18:22Michael Gervais?

  You know, I, I, we, I don't use the word visualization. I use imagery.

• 1:18:26Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:26Michael Gervais?

  You know, it's same, same thing, right? And, but imagery gives me the space to, to also talk about not just seeing it, but feeling it, smelling it, using.

• 1:18:37Lewis Howes?

  Experiencing it.

• 1:18:37Michael Gervais?

  Experiencing. So this is an ability. Imagery is an ability. Visualization is an ability, which anything that's an ability you can get better at. And how do you get better at it? Well, know, know what science would suggest, know what greats do, how they do it. And the, the easiest way I can describe it is that you and I both know this, is that when you close your eyes and you imagine something sensual, you imagine a woman or whatever, you imagine that thing, your body will change.

• 1:19:07Lewis Howes?

  Ostrich's, ostrich's legs.

• 1:19:09Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, ostrich's legs, that's where you want to go. You're literally, your physiology will change. And that's

• 1:19:16Lewis Howes?

  When you think of something sensual.

• 1:19:17Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, sexual or sensual, like you know that. Everybody that's listening knows that you just close your eyes and you get and you have this amazing experience in your mind.

• 1:19:25Lewis Howes?

  Your body.

• 1:19:26Michael Gervais?

  Your body turns on.

• 1:19:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:19:28Michael Gervais?

  Yes, it does. Okay, so that's why, um, okay, so we, you don't need any more research to know that. And every 14 year old little boy understands this intimately.

• 1:19:35Lewis Howes?

  They can't control it.

• 1:19:37Michael Gervais?

  They cannot control that. Okay, so take that principle and layer it on the thing that you care most about. Okay, so what does that mean? That means when you close your eyes, because we're visual creatures and you close your eyes, you know, there's so many visual distractions. Close your eyes, you've got to warm up your brain and your mind. So your brain from a sensual standpoint, uh, senses standpoint, not sensual, but senses. Wake up the senses of touch, sound, smell, wake up all of your senses. And the way that we do that with, with athletes is, I keep saying we, you know, it's like, but, um, see a fruit, see a fruit in your mind's eye, become familiar with the way it tastes, the way can you control it and move it? What's the color and the texture and the feel?

• 1:20:20Michael Gervais?

  Wake your mind up that way because a fruit is so tangible, right? And then if you're really good, you can taste it, your mind, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, and then see, but see if you can control it, can you manipulate it, move it around? Cause that's what you have to do in imagery and then go straight into the thing you care about. You've got all of your senses lit up. Your mind is committed to focusing on the thing that that is important to you and slow it down. Right? And then when you're better, speed it up. When you get even more skilled, speed it up again. And so if you can go full time, uh, real time with all of your senses in play and you can really feel it. You're on to it.

• 1:20:57Lewis Howes?

  A couple more questions for you. You talked about pillars of recovery. What are those pillars and how can we incorporate that in our lives?

• 1:21:04Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So the, a great question. So again, you know, on the world stage, we, we definitely talk more about the science and the art of recovery. Everybody works hard. And so there's four pillars, the first is sleep well, and that's a given. Right? Just saying it though is important because science is very clear. Most humans, 68% to 70%, you know, one standard deviation from the norm for people is, uh, requires seven, eight hours of sleep. Independent of job function, independent of geographic region, it's a human experience. Most of us need seven to eight hours. When I ask people how much they're getting, most aren't getting seven to eight. So what's going on? There's a lot going on there and we can go on and on about like the tactics for that, but most people do know the tactics.

• 1:21:47Michael Gervais?

  It's a discipline thing. They put down TV to put down Instagram, to put down whatever. And you know, get your room as dark as you possibly can.

• 1:21:56Lewis Howes?

  Cold.

• 1:21:56Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, cold, you know, sixty, eighty, seventy degrees, somewhere in that range. And then, um, so sleep well and to really value that. Those, our brain does something funny. If we study some research here, people that for five days have five hours of sleep when they do a pre, post and a post-test on reaction time. So if you go to sleep for five hours for five days at the end of that period and they measure you, um, your reaction time, people, humans' reaction time is no different than a drunk person. They would not be able to pass, uh, you know, a point zero eight, you know, point zero eight, um, driving test. So sleep well.

• 1:22:37Michael Gervais?

  The, the next is move well. So get oxygenation throughout your system, you know, like get your heart rate up.

• 1:22:42Lewis Howes?

  Sweat.

• 1:22:43Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, sweat, like really have a, you know, general guidelines are about four and a half hours a week.

• 1:22:49Lewis Howes?

  Of movement.

• 1:22:49Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, two hours.

• 1:22:50Lewis Howes?

  Physical movement.

• 1:22:51Michael Gervais?

  Moderate to intensity, two hours of, of, you know, non-cardio. So somewhere in that range. And then, um, actually, let me do these in order. Sleep well, eat and hydrate well, move well, and then think well. Those are the four pillars. There is a social aspect that's important for recovery.

• 1:23:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:07Michael Gervais?

  But I, I want to just focus on the ones that you can fully control. Okay. Sleep, you got it. Eat and hydrate, eat colorful foods, you know, plenty of hydration is really important. We, we make it really simple, like forty ounces before two o'clock.

• 1:23:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:21Michael Gervais?

  Forty ounces before four, like make it super simple.

• 1:23:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:24Michael Gervais?

  And, and like exact nutrition is a science. There's a science to that, but.

• 1:23:27Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:23:29Michael Gervais?

  And then the, the other two, you know, uh, get your heart rate up, move well, and then think well. Be optimistic.

• 1:23:34Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Yeah. What's the question that people should be asking you more? Or that they're not asking themselves enough?

• 1:23:41Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, that, that is a super thoughtful question. And I think that, um, what most people do ask is, how can I be better?

• 1:23:54Michael Gervais?

  I don't think that's the right question. I think the right question, and like, listen, like, if you knew what I knew, and you might know, what it, the path and what it takes to become an Olympian, let's say, for your child to do, to go that path, you probably would not encourage them, you know, but we are littered with crazy, you know, anxious parenting, trying to help their kids, you know, do, do well in life, but it is a dark, dark path. So I think the real question is, how can you help me know who I am? And what can I do to become myself? I think that that's like, you know, that's important. But also, at the core is, you know,

• 1:24:37Michael Gervais?

  what is the human experience about? And my answer is, I can't tell you, but that's the right question. Go and figure it out. Go discover who you are and what this journey is about. And it's not about being the best in the world. I've, I can't tell you how many times of people that I know have been on a podium, and they get off the podium crying or whatever, and the world thinks that they are celebrating this moment of achievement, and they get off, and they say, Jesus, I thought I was gonna be different. I'm still, I'm still that same.

• 1:25:06Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 1:25:07Michael Gervais?

  Yeah. So, know who you are and, and, um, and figure out the, what the human experience means to you.

• 1:25:14Lewis Howes?

  I like that. Um, this is called the three truths. Uh, if, if this was the last day for you, and you had no podcast or content or anything out there anymore, it was all erased. So all the information you had was gone, but you had a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true about your experience, about life, that you would pass on to the world, and this is all people would have, these three lessons or three truths, what would be yours?

• 1:25:40Michael Gervais?

  For sure, it begins with love. Uh, the second would be courage, and the third would be, uh, a path of self-discovery.

• 1:25:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool. I want to acknowledge you for a moment for your gift of helping people open up about who they are. And for helping people learn the tools and the strategies to overcome so much pain and suffering and anxiety and stress that a lot of the world is facing. That in my mind is pointless for people to have. It's holding them back from their potential or from their living who they truly authentically are. And I'm just really grateful that you are in the world doing this work in an authentic, loving way and pushing the boundaries of what's capable for all human beings. So thank you for all you do.

• 1:26:25Michael Gervais?

  Ah, dude, that's really cool. Thank you for that. And yeah, I appreciate it. And congratulations on everything you've done.

• 1:26:31Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 1:26:31Michael Gervais?

  Um, you're definitely making a dent in the space and increasing people's awareness about what is possible and some ways to go about it. So congratulations.

• 1:26:40Lewis Howes?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:26:40Michael Gervais?

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:26:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I got one more question before I ask it. Where can we connect with you and learn more about your work? Where can we get your information?

• 1:26:48Michael Gervais?

  Oh, cool. Yeah, I appreciate that. The two, two ways. One is Coach Carol and I created a business called Compete to Create. It's on.net, compete2create.net. And that's where we help organizations and CEOs and companies understand how to train their minds to become their very best. And so that's been a really fun process and

• 1:27:08Lewis Howes?

  Who's that for? Like teams of organizations?

• 1:27:11Michael Gervais?

  So if you're inside an organization and you're interested in that, we've got a digital training experience. So it's an online course. We've got some in-person stuff where our staff are Olympians and sports psychologists that go right in. And they understand our methodology to help people transform and become their very best by training their mind. So it's been, we have had so much fun.

• 1:27:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:30Michael Gervais?

  You know, working with influential people in the business world to do that. So that's one.

• 1:27:34Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:27:34Michael Gervais?

  Uh, the second is findingmastery.net. And so, I'm sorry, Finding Mastery Podcast and the website is findingmastery.net. And that's just been, I think you and I talked about this earlier, just a a wonderful journey about uh, understanding what goes into people that are on the path of mastery and what they're doing. So that's a fun podcast. I'm grateful to be part of that and curate that. And then, uh, social media is at Michael Gervais. That's Twitter, G E R V A I S. And Instagram is at Finding Mastery.

• 1:28:04Lewis Howes?

  Sweet. Awesome. Final question for you. What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:28:08Michael Gervais?

  Uh, that's, yeah, thank you.

• 1:28:11Michael Gervais?

  Being able to authentically express yourself in any conditions.

• 1:28:15Lewis Howes?

  Michael, thank you so much, man.

• 1:28:17Michael Gervais?

  Yeah, thank you, thank you.

• 1:28:19Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. I could have gone on for another hour just listening to and diving into the mindset of how we can really optimize the mind and figure out anything that holds us back, anything that makes us fearful in life, and really use it to our advantage to move towards it and overcome certain things so that we can create better results in our life. I'm all about finding the tools, the strategies, the techniques to help optimize and have a better life. That's what the School of Greatness is about. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends. I'm @lewishouse over on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, tag me anywhere you want to share it. You can check out the full show notes,

• 1:28:59Lewis Howes?

  video, resources, links that we talked about, @lewishouse.com/533. We'll have some great quotes up there. You can tweet those out if you want to. And make sure to tag Michael as well whenever you're posting this out. Again, if you're an entrepreneur, or freelancer, or startup creator, or you just have a book that you want to put out there, or some social media graphics, check out designcrowd.com/greatness. You get a $100 VIP offer when you go there right now. Again, I use them for a lot of my projects. I just did a book cover with them. I just did a project on one of my new courses. I had them design our full new logo. We redesigned websites.

• 1:29:39Lewis Howes?

  Whatever it is, designcrowd.com/greatness is a great solution to help you create amazing designs for your projects or your business. Check it out at designcrowd.com/greatness. And also, if you have not got a copy of The Mask of Masculinity, please preorder your copy right now. The pre-orders will help so much in getting the message out there for me during the first couple of weeks of our launch. And if you go to maskofmasculinity.com, you can learn all about what's in it for men, what's in it for women, how it can take your life to the next level, and all the different bonuses we're offering. Again, if you buy one copy, three, 10, 250 copies, we add so much value with some of our programs and courses,

• 1:30:23Lewis Howes?

  and never before released content that you Can't get anywhere else. So make sure to go to maskofmasculinity.com, preorder a few copies and when you do screenshot your receipt and tag me on your Instagram story. And as Michael Jordan said it best, you have to expect things of yourself before you can do them. Guys, we must expect more from ourselves and it starts with optimizing the way we think and the way we're being in order to do more in our lives. I hope you guys enjoyed this one and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.