Pod Insights The School of Greatness 515 Face Your Biggest Fears and Bounce Back with Pro Surfer Mark Mathews About this episode "Greatness is being better than who you were yesterday." - Mark Mathews If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/515 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript 13,268 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is episode number 515 with big wave surfer Mark Matthews.
0:07 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
0:33 Lewis Howes? He who does not every day conquering some fear, has not learned the secret of life. Ralph Waldo Emerson said that, and today, we're going to be talking about conquering fear in order to reach ultimate human potential and reach the highest level of performance under the biggest fearful circumstances and stakes that we have in life. And we've got Mark Matthews, who is an Australian professional big wave surfer. This guy has gone on some of the biggest waves in the world. And he's obsessed with the relationship between personal growth, high performance, and fulfillment. And Matthews is on a mission to offer game-changing ways to adapt to stress and increase wonder in the lives of others.
1:17 Lewis Howes? Now, he's deconstructed, fine-tuned, and personalized emotion and resilience techniques to successfully strengthen one's mindset and sustain long-term performance. He exposes practical and tangible solutions on how to overcome our primal need for control and security and embrace the feelings of fear. And in this interview, we talk about how he chooses to heal his body with his mind after a major injury. The two different types of fear we all face, what creates excitement versus fear, why no one is actually fearless in the world, and the keys to overcoming fear of public speaking or any big obstacle in our way.
2:00 Lewis Howes? Guys, I really enjoyed this one. Super nice guy, humble guy, and the funny thing is, he was terrified of surfing, and his mom used to have to Rescue him when he was a teenager because he was terrified of the ocean and now he's going after 60, 80 foot waves and risking his life every time he goes out there. So if you're facing a fear in anything in your life, if you feel like you're not moving forward in your, your business, your career, your relationships, your health, you're not chasing something big enough, or the big thing you want is so fearful for you that you haven't taken the necessary steps because you're making that excuse of failure, then this is an episode you're definitely going
2:41 Lewis Howes? to want to learn about. And if you are a peak performer and you want to learn how to take things to a whole nother level, then this is definitely for you as well, because we always have new levels we can reach. All right, guys, this is a powerful one and one that I think you're really going to enjoy. So make sure you're sharing it out with your friends, LewisHowes.com/515. Tag me on Instagram, Twitter, anywhere on social media that you like to hang out. Let's have a conversation about this one. And without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only big wave surfer, Mark Matthews. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got Mark Matthews in the house. Good to see you, man. How you doing?
3:21 Speaker 00 Thanks for having me, Lewis. I'm great.
3:22 Lewis Howes? Uh, just heard about you recently from the person who connected us and said, I, you have an amazing story. You're this big wave surfer. Uh, and I started watching some of your videos and I saw some of the biggest crashes ever. And I was like, how does this guy first do it? And how does he have the courage to continue to get up after these like, it looks like 40 foot waves? I don't know how big are some of these waves you've been on?
3:45 Speaker 00 I'd say the biggest ones in the 40 to 60 foot range. Yeah. And then anywhere from sort of 20, 20 feet up is what we consider big waves.
3:52 Lewis Howes? Big wave, 20 feet up. How often do you hit those waves? Cause it's not happening like every day. It's kind of comes and goes when the weather's changing, right? Or how's that work?
4:02 Speaker 00 Exactly. And originally it was probably three to four swells a year, but since swell forecasting, he's got so amazing, the internet opened up like a whole new world of forecasting. We can hit probably 15 to 20 big swells a year. So, which is awesome for my career, but then all of a sudden I've got a whole lot more dangerous surfing, so many big waves.
4:22 Lewis Howes? Yeah, more risk. Now, is that all in one, um, beach? Or is that like around the country in Australia? Or is that all around the world? And you're just like, you can predict in two days, it's going to be huge. So you fly there? How does that work?
4:34 Speaker 00 All over the world and and if we get a seven day forecast and I'll know that at the end of the week, I'll be surfing monster waves and it might be off the bottom of South Africa, the bottom of Australia, Tahiti, here in America on the West Coast.
4:48 Lewis Howes? So you'll get advanced and you'll fly there and you'll just go.
4:51 Speaker 00 Fly there and and sort of about two days out, we make the decision to get there as late as possible because then we know what the winds and the weather's doing. We know the swell's already on the way, but we need perfect winds and and weather conditions as well. So two days out, we jump on the plane, land usually the night before the swell, get everything ready, jet skis, other surfers, photographers, videographers and uh head out there and take it on.
5:15 Lewis Howes? Early morning usually is when it's like the best time or what?
5:17 Speaker 00 Yeah, more often than not, early morning because it's the light winds are good. But uh yeah, occasionally we can get a an entire day and and sometimes back to back days, but more often than not, we get one huge day as well and then it starts to drop off.
5:30 Lewis Howes? Didn't you have like a record for like one of the biggest waves or something or?
5:33 Speaker 00 I've uh I had a record where I've won consecutive awards for the biggest wave of the year and I I won that back to back three times. So at the time.
5:42 Lewis Howes? Biggest wave of the year.
5:42 Speaker 00 Yeah. And at the time I was kind of, I I didn't realize how amazing goal it was, but then I went sort of five years without winning one. I was like, wow, it's kind of special that I did that, you know? Yeah. Cause there is, there's a lot of hard work, a lot of preparation, but there's a lot of luck involved because you're out there in the surf, you do everything to prepare to get out there and surf. But then while you're out there, there's other surfers, you don't know exactly when the biggest wave on that day is gonna come through. Yeah.
6:08 Lewis Howes? Took one too soon and then it happened after you're gone. It's like, oh, okay.
6:11 Speaker 00 So I feel like someone was shying down on me at that point. I was like really lucky.
6:17 Lewis Howes? So you you uh hit those waves. Now, what, I mean, how many people are going to these big waves every time they happen? Is there like a group of like 20 of you in the clan, like the Brotherhood or, you know, the Sisterhood? I don't know that goes there and it's like every time there's a big wave, you guys all go together? Do you try to do it secretively so you can like hit those opportunities? What's that like?
6:41 Speaker 00 It's a combination. Like on one hand, we have to be kind of secretive because you want to be the one on the big wave, you know? But everyone's watching the same forecast. So usually we'd have sort of a minimum of two or three teams that that turn up to swells and and then a max, sometimes in the crowded spots like a Hawaii, off Maui at Jaws. We could have twenty teams out there and a combination of majority guys, but also some amazing female big wave surfers.
7:09 Lewis Howes? Yeah, so it's a pretty cool vibe out of the water while we're on one hand kind of competing to get the biggest wave.
7:15 Speaker 00 But everyone's there looking after each other. Yeah, because bad stuff happens every time.
7:20 Lewis Howes? Every time.
7:20 Speaker 00 When you have that many people in huge waves, there's big wipeouts all the time. And
7:25 Lewis Howes? Scary.
7:25 Speaker 00 There's not a lot of uh sort of rescue teams in the water. It's more up to the surfers who are out there to rescue each other.
7:32 Lewis Howes? That's crazy.
7:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's pretty crazy. So you you've got to keep an eye out for the other people because you want them to keep an eye out for you as well at the same time.
7:39 Lewis Howes? So when you get a crash in a forty foot wave, how long does it take for you to actually get out and breathe? Because it looks like, one of the videos I saw was just like, you you're just down, you can't even see you for like, it seems like minutes, I don't know, but you're just like tumbling in this huge wave. I mean, how do you get out of that?
7:56 Speaker 00 It it's crazy because it looks so spectacular, but more often than not, you're up before twenty seconds.
8:03 Lewis Howes? Really?
8:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, which isn't a long time. Worst case scenario is you go, you wipe out on one big wave and you're down and you can't get up and the next wave breaks. So you're down for two waves. And then you're looking at sort of forty five seconds to a minute. But um, I mean, we do breath hold training.
8:19 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
8:20 Speaker 00 And I can hold my breath up to sort of four or five minutes when I'm relaxed.
8:23 Lewis Howes? But when you got the chaos of flip around, it's
8:26 Speaker 00 When you wipe out on these waves and you take impact and you get winded and the adrenaline's rushing, you don't know if you're gonna make it back up. It's uh twenty seconds feels like a lifetime underwater.
8:37 Lewis Howes? It was like forever.
8:37 Speaker 00 Forever.
8:38 Lewis Howes? Was there ever a time where you felt like, I'm not gonna get out?
8:40 Speaker 00 There's been a couple of bad ones. Uh for me, the scariest part is hitting the reef below. And and if you take impact on the reef and you know you've done a bad injury, so a couple of years ago, I dislocated my shoulder. And I felt it on the first impact of the wipeout. And then I had to kind of nurse my arm because it was popped out.
8:57 Lewis Howes? No, underwater.
8:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I was rolling around like I was on the craziest sort of roller coaster ride ever. Underwater and and holding on, dealing with the pain, trying not to pass out. Popped up and and what happens is the jet ski will come in quick on the next wave to try and pull you out before the next one breaks on you. Unluckily, he came on on my left side, so I couldn't grab because that's the shoulder that was out. Tried to grab right side, slipped off the ski. And next wave breaks straight on my head, another forty foot wave on top of my head with the shoulder out, so.
9:30 Lewis Howes? Cause he had to get out of the way.
9:31 Speaker 00 He had to get out of the way, yeah. So I had to take two more waves before he was able to come back and get me. That that was one of the scariest sort of moments I've I've had to face.
9:40 Lewis Howes? And then a year, was it a year ago when you had this pretty bad leg leg accident, right?
9:44 Speaker 00 Yeah, so I've had.
9:45 Lewis Howes? What happened to that?
9:46 Speaker 00 I had a bad run. Um, I was recovering from the shoulder injury. I was out for about nine months, just starting to surf again. I could barely paddle properly, but desperate to get into some good waves. And at the same time, I've got a career. I'm getting paid money to surf big waves, yeah. And um, and for me, I felt like, you know, I I need to do something this year, you know, cause I've got contracts coming up, probably pushed a little bit too soon, went out and and surfed not huge waves, but what we describe as a slabbing wave. So it's sort of like a head high to sort of ten foot wave breaking really thick, powerful way breaking super shallow water. So that, to me, these are the really scary waves.
10:27 Speaker 00 Uh, went out there too early, was nervous about my shoulder, uh, just made an error judgment, wrong wave, dove off the wave too early, the wave picked me up and slammed me into the reef. What happened was I I luckily landed on my feet, took all the impact on my feet, but my knee dislocated.
10:43 Lewis Howes? Oh.
10:44 Speaker 00 Yeah, so it popped, tore through my arteries, tore through my major nerves. Um, thankfully, amazing jet ski drivers and rescue guys picked me up out of the water, got me to the beach. Uh, ambulance officers met me and made the right call. They they called the helicopter to come and pick me up and get me to the ER as fast as possible. Because they could have very easily said, we'll take you, you know, you're not in too serious a damage, you might have broken your leg. But he realized that my leg was swelling really quickly and that was the broken artery. Yeah, my leg was filling up with blood, so. Got me there, got surgery. And and the surgeon came out and said, you know, an hour later, your leg would have had to be amputated. So I was and it was kind of a three day wait. He was like, I've fixed it.
11:29 Speaker 00 We have to wait for the next three days to see if your pulse comes back in your foot, which means the artery is working. So for the next three days.
11:36 Lewis Howes? Just way up praying.
11:37 Speaker 00 Oh, man, it was terrifying. I was like looking at my foot the whole time and and.
11:40 Lewis Howes? You couldn't move your foot, right?
11:42 Speaker 00 Yeah. And my girlfriend was there with me. She'd be like checking every hour to see if the pulse had come back and.
11:47 Lewis Howes? Cause you didn't have a pulse in your foot.
11:48 Speaker 00 No, so the blood wasn't pumping. Yeah.
11:51 Lewis Howes? Couldn't move it. It was like paralyzed essentially.
11:53 Speaker 00 Completely paralyzed. And then um, kind of around the third day, it it started to pull like real weak like pulse and my girlfriend was like, wow, I can feel something. I can feel it. And I was like, are you sure? And then got the doctors in and they checked it out and and luckily I've.
12:07 Lewis Howes? Wow, man. Crazy.
12:09 Speaker 00 It's not as good as a perfectly functioning leg, but it's there.
12:12 Lewis Howes? Gnarly scar. Can you can you lift it up? Can we see it from the side a little bit?
12:15 Speaker 00 Are you sure?
12:15 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
12:16 Speaker 00 If you're eating at home, you might wanna.
12:18 Lewis Howes? Oh, my gosh. I mean, this is crazy. Should I touch it or no?
12:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, you can touch it. It's all numb. I have no feeling.
12:24 Lewis Howes? Oh, man, it's just like straight to the bone and like.
12:27 Speaker 00 It's gross.
12:28 Lewis Howes? Oh, my gosh. So that's from the surgery or that's from the?
12:31 Speaker 00 This is from the surgery.
12:32 Lewis Howes? Not from hitting the the reef?
12:33 Speaker 00 No, so there was no uh actual break in the skin from the injury, but what they had to do with the surgery was when they took some artery from the top of my leg and put it down here and then they had to take the pressure off my leg. So they cut both sides of my leg open.
12:46 Lewis Howes? Oh.
12:47 Speaker 00 And they had to keep it open for a month.
12:49 Lewis Howes? No.
12:50 Speaker 00 Yeah, a vacuum bag stuck on it.
12:52 Lewis Howes? No.
12:53 Speaker 00 Yeah. And then they relieve all the swelling while that artery heals.
12:56 Lewis Howes? Oh, my gosh.
12:58 Speaker 00 It was it was.
12:59 Lewis Howes? So your leg was cut open on both sides, like a foot long.
13:03 Speaker 00 Yeah.
13:04 Lewis Howes? How do you? You can't walk then, can you?
13:06 Speaker 00 No, I was laid up in hospital.
13:07 Lewis Howes? For a month?
13:08 Speaker 00 For a month and then another two months after that.
13:10 Lewis Howes? Is it safe to be like exposed when it's cut open like that?
13:13 Speaker 00 Actually, the most dangerous part is the infections in the hospital. They had a girl in there who was a rugby player, really good rugby player. She had the same sort of injury and she got really bad infections and for for six months um she was stuck in hospital. Trying to heal the infections because you can then it really is.
13:31 Lewis Howes? Kill you. Yeah.
13:33 Speaker 00 I was super lucky. I didn't um, didn't get the infections. I, I, I mean, I. I've learned so much sort of up until this period in my career about sort of managing health and um, emotion and, and not letting myself get run down in that moment. I think that played a big part in the way my nervous system and my immune system was functioning while I was in, in hospital and, and I, I think that that's a, a big reason I didn't get the um.
13:59 Lewis Howes? What were you doing emotionally or mentally to prepare yourself daily to not, I guess, stress out constantly?
14:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, because it was a really tough time. The doctors were telling me you, you're not going to work properly ever again. You're not going to surf ever again. And um, it was tough to hear.
14:12 Lewis Howes? How do you like have this dream, these hopes and this belief and you're like, wow?
14:16 Speaker 00 I, I've always had this um, like I, I've learned over time, this amazing technique of just practicing gratitude. Right? It is so powerful and it was tough to do at the start. I'm not gonna lie. I was like.
14:29 Lewis Howes? Imagine.
14:30 Speaker 00 I'm on in hospital. I was in the worst pain all day, every day. I could barely sleep. Not much to be grateful about at that point in time. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. What happened was.
14:39 Lewis Howes? Foot is there.
14:40 Speaker 00 A young kid came, he, he had seen that I was in hospital and he was actually in hospital downstairs. And he comes into my room. He's complete quadrupedig.
14:50 Lewis Howes? Oh.
14:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. And like electric chair wheels into my room comes up. He just wanted to chat because he was a surfer and he saw on my social media that I was in there.
14:57 Lewis Howes? No way.
14:58 Speaker 00 Comes in to chat to me and like it straight away, complete change in the way I perceive my situation. Cause all of a sudden I was the luckiest man on earth.
15:07 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
15:07 Speaker 00 That I wasn't in his chair.
15:09 Lewis Howes? He was a server.
15:10 Speaker 00 He was a surfer. Yeah. Like not, not a, a professional surfer, but a surfer. Yeah. He had actually did it. Um, mountain bike riding.
15:18 Lewis Howes? That's how he got injured. Oh.
15:19 Speaker 00 Broke his neck and um, yeah, and, and just seeing that completely changed my mindset. So eh, from that day on, I was happy every day in that hospital.
15:28 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
15:28 Speaker 00 And, and the times where I drift back, I would just think about that. Like he, he really helped me. It was crazy.
15:34 Lewis Howes? I remember a couple of years ago, I was, I, I trained with the USA National Handball Team and play handball. We were down at training camp for a week in Alabama and we were going through like two, three days training, but doing some stuff that. I didn't feel like we had a specific trainer that was leading us through workouts.
15:52 Speaker 00 Yeah.
15:53 Lewis Howes? It wasn't our coach. It was like a hired trainer. And for me, playing sports my whole life, playing at a professional level, I just knew the things that he was was doing were not professional.
16:02 Speaker 00 Yeah.
16:02 Lewis Howes? Like, it was hurting us more than helping us. We were all getting like injured. He was like, you gotta keep pushing. I was like, no, I'm getting hurt now.
16:10 Speaker 00 Yeah.
16:10 Lewis Howes? And everyone else is getting hurt and everyone's like.
16:13 Speaker 00 But you don't want to be that one to say like.
16:14 Lewis Howes? So you gotta like push it through and you're like, okay, whatever. And I remember just being like, what am I doing here? This is stupid. Like, I'm exhausted. And then literally like at the other end of the court, there were these, these guys and girls that came in on wheelchairs playing wheelchair basketball. And I was just like, put me in that perspective as well. It's like, they're all playing, they can't walk and they're having fun playing basketball. Even though this sucks and I don't think it's right, like, at least I can walk and run through the pain.
16:42 Speaker 00 It's crazy.
16:43 Lewis Howes? So I think it's all about perspective.
16:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, perspective is unbelievable. And there's, I feel like no matter how bad you got it, there's always someone who got it worse. And if you can sort of condition yourself to think that way with that positive perspective and a bit of gratitude, like you can train yourself to be, that's your new state of mind consistently, right? It's like going to the gym. You just got to do it over and over and over again. And then it becomes habitual.
17:07 Lewis Howes? That's it, man.
17:08 Speaker 00 To me, I think action taken from that sort of mind frame, like, it's like it creates energy and then action taken from there is, is propelling, you know, like gives you so much extra motivation to sort of chase your dream.
17:22 Lewis Howes? Absolutely. Now, why did you get into big wave surfing in the first place? Cause it's been 15 years you've been doing this, right?
17:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:27 Lewis Howes? Weren't you afraid of the ocean when you were going out?
17:30 Speaker 00 Terrified when I was young, which is strange. I mean, I show people footage and photos of what I do for a living and they're certain that I must have been kind of born with some sort of brain defect that stops me from feeling fear, but um, couldn't be further from the truth. Like, I, uh, young boy terrified the ocean to the point where my mom used to have to rescue me over and over again in the surf. And I, I grew up in a, a pretty rough neighborhood in Sydney. And uh, when your mom paddles out on her bodyboard to rescue in front of all these guys, oh man, it's so embarrassing. But uh my parents split when I was about fifteen and I lived with my mum and we moved right next door to another professional surfer, whose name was Kobe Abernathy.
18:12 Speaker 00 And at the time, I mean, I was fifteen, he was probably twenty, and I was looking at his lifestyle. He was like coolest cars, hottest girlfriends, getting paid to travel around the world, go surfing. And I was just like, all I want is that. I'm gonna copy everything he does to get that, you know. And uh but I was terrified of the ocean at the time.
18:33 Lewis Howes? Fifteen.
18:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, still then. So I I wanted to be the professional surfer, but not specifically big waves. I like, there's a competitive tour that you can go and do and become the world champion. And it's super lucrative.
18:47 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
18:47 Speaker 00 And and you can kind of avoid surfing the huge waves, right?
18:50 Lewis Howes? They're like eight foot waves.
18:52 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's standard, it's more performance, yeah.
18:54 Lewis Howes? Who's the top guy, Kelly?
18:55 Speaker 00 Kelly Slater, yeah, one of the most amazing athletes on the planet. Um, yeah, so that was my goal. But I got to the point where I I left school, it was about two thousand and one. And I wasn't doing that well on the competitive tour. I was in that that sort of transition period where I'm chasing my dream, but I don't know if it's gonna work out, I've got to get back and study or, you know, start a new career. And I get a call from the editor of a of a surfing magazine, Australia, Tracks Magazine. It's like, it's back when magazines existed, right? And it was the biggest publication in Australia. And I'm working bars, as a barista sort of slash bartender. And and I get this call from him and I can't believe he's called me because I'm a no one, right? At this point in surfing.
19:39 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
19:40 Speaker 00 And he rings me up. He says, Mark, you know, we want you to come and surf this new wave that's been found off the bottom of Tasmania. Like, at that time, there was this rumor going around the surf industry.
19:51 Lewis Howes? A new wave, wow.
19:52 Speaker 00 Monster new wave that fishermen and avalanches had had found.
19:56 Lewis Howes? Wow.
19:56 Speaker 00 Yeah, no one had surfed yet. And it sounded terrifying. No part of me wanted to deal with it.
20:02 Lewis Howes? Mythological creature that like no one's seen, no one's seen.
20:07 Speaker 00 And uh, so this surf editors rang me up and invited me on the trip.
20:10 Lewis Howes? Why did they ring you up?
20:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, this is what I didn't understand. I found out later that he had rung thirty other surfers.
20:15 Lewis Howes? Oh wow.
20:16 Speaker 00 And my name was at the bottom of the list.
20:18 Lewis Howes? Maybe this kid's crazy.
20:19 Speaker 00 Cause like everyone had turned it down. I wanted to turn it down too, but I was like, if I say no to this, my career's done. This is kind of my final shot.
20:26 Lewis Howes? And he was like, we'll put it on the homepage or the cover of the magazine.
20:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, oh, it's like cover of the magazine. Like this is before like websites were big and stuff.
20:32 Lewis Howes? This was big.
20:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, cover of magazines, huge. So I said yes, went to Tasmania, we were taken out by a uh, abalone diver, like fisherman in his boat. Super remote corner of Tasmania, monster swell. And uh, we pulled up alongside this wave and it was so big and scary looking. And I'm sitting in the boat, never surfed anything like this. Like I was terrified. I remember I'm sitting there just thinking, like the photographers are like, you know, this is your big chance, your career can ta-
21:04 Lewis Howes? Maybe I'll die though.
21:05 Speaker 00 Yeah, but I was like, I don't know how much I want this career right now, like to, to go and surf this. At the time, I was living with my mum and my mum was really sick. She had a, it's not a, a serious illness. It's called vertigo. But when it's undiagnosed, like back then, it's, you can't get out of bed, you can't walk, you can't do anything. She was in bed, she'd been in bed for three months and hadn't been able to work. And the doctors couldn't tell what was wrong with her. And, and at that time, I was like, if that doesn't get better, I'm the only one to look after her, you know? And I had this i- in my head, you know, I have to look after my mum. And that was like the, the urgency to do that was the only thing that got me out of the boat to surf that day.
21:46 Speaker 00 Cause I was like, if I get this career, then there's the goal right there. Yeah. I went out and surfed by far the biggest waves I've ever surfed. And not only I surfed, stayed up and fell in love with it. It was like the best feeling in the world, like standing inside, barreling waves as big as this room, like, and, and there's this thing with surfing that-
22:11 Speaker 00 Every moment before you get into the barrel is terrifying. Like you've got to pick the right wave. You've got to position yourself and then you've got to make this crazy drop down the way. And then you get inside the barrel and if you do everything right, you know you're going to come out. Like that's the hard part's done and the next bit's easy. And for sort of two, three seconds, you get to stand back just surrounded by the ocean. All the energy and it's unbelievable. Best feeling I'd ever felt in my life.
22:37 Lewis Howes? Wow.
22:37 Speaker 00 And I was like, I was hooked. I was hooked. The, the um photos from that trip went all around the world. Covers of magazines, mainstream media, everything. Got my first surfing sponsorship. Like signed on the dotted line, probably a month later. Like it took a long time for the photos to come out and get the sign on the dotted line. All of a sudden I was getting paid to surf.
22:56 Lewis Howes? Really?
22:57 Speaker 00 Yeah.
22:57 Lewis Howes? Just from one photo?
22:58 Speaker 00 Well, or like photos from that trip, but all over the world, like everywhere. All of a sudden I was a huge name in surfing. And, and the sponsors came straight away.
23:08 Lewis Howes? Right away?
23:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:09 Lewis Howes? From one trip, you can make funds of money.
23:11 Speaker 00 It just changed everything. Cause now they want you to. Yeah, that's how important it is. Like that's why we try and surf every big swell. Because then you can get that career defining wave. Like you have to be there every time, just in case that wave comes through.
23:24 Lewis Howes? And then hopefully someone takes the photo.
23:27 Speaker 00 Exactly.
23:27 Lewis Howes? Cause then you're like, did you get that?
23:29 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:29 Lewis Howes? No.
23:30 Speaker 00 And back in those days, it was like film cameras. Like so guys would be changing film while you get the best wave of your life and they'd miss it. So.
23:37 Lewis Howes? Oh my gosh.
23:37 Speaker 00 At least that part of technology has made what we do way easier.
23:40 Lewis Howes? Yeah, just snap the phone now.
23:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:43 Lewis Howes? Wow, man.
23:43 Speaker 00 And then I, I mean, I had the blueprint of how to, how to be a professional surfer now. Big wave surfers. Chase the biggest waves, get the, get the photos, get the exposure and get bigger sponsorships.
23:54 Lewis Howes? Were people doing big wave surfing back then as a main thing? Was it like?
23:57 Speaker 00 It had, had kind of just started as a career.
24:01 Lewis Howes? Like the one who kind of pioneered it?
24:02 Speaker 00 He was the pioneer and he was, yeah. I thought I watched his episode. Yeah.
24:07 Lewis Howes? That's great.
24:07 Speaker 00 He, he was the, the pioneer of not only surfing a lot of the major big waves around, but making a career out of it.
24:15 Lewis Howes? Right.
24:15 Speaker 00 Like he, he was a visionary in that part because he sort of stepped away from the, the way the traditional industry worked and created this amazing career out of big wave surfing. He realized that broad audiences would love what he's doing. Not just the, the sort of small niche surf community. So, uh, yeah, I kind of, he was one of my, my heroes. And I, I kind of followed everything he was doing in his career and I thought. If he can do it, I can do it, but it's tough with him because he's just like built like this.
24:44 Lewis Howes? Huge.
24:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, big Greek god or something. So I was kinda like, if he can do that, maybe I can do a little bit. But yeah, it was awesome.
24:53 Lewis Howes? What's the biggest wave recorded that someone surfed? Do we know?
24:56 Speaker 00 Um, I think they they debate over it all the time because everyone wants that hundred foot wave and.
25:01 Lewis Howes? Hundred feet?
25:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, I I I'm pretty sure it's kind of in the eighty to hundred foot range.
25:05 Lewis Howes? Really?
25:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
25:06 Lewis Howes? What's the highest you've done?
25:08 Speaker 00 It'd be seventy feet, like seventy, eighty feet. There's kind of two different parts. There's parts where you get towed in by a jet ski and put onto huge waves. So there's that side of surfing, but then there's also the paddle side of surfing and then that's sort of in the thirty to foot range, but a whole lot harder to do. And kinda, you can get really, really smashed when you're towing in the jet ski because you put in positions that are not sort of, you can't get there humanly possible.
25:32 Lewis Howes? No, it's impossible.
25:33 Speaker 00 So you have to deal with the wipeouts there, but it's a lot easier to do.
25:36 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
25:36 Speaker 00 And then there's the paddle side of surfing that's sort of thirty foot range. And there's two spots in the world, um, off Jaws, uh, Jaws in Maui, the reef off Maui is one of the main spots and has been for a long time where sort of Laird launched his career. And then now recently in Portugal, a wave called Nazaré, which has this crazy deep water canyon that runs out from the beach and seems to magnify swells. And they've been riding now waves down there, sort of in the eighty foot range.
26:07 Lewis Howes? That's crazy, dude.
26:08 Speaker 00 Maybe a bit bigger.
26:09 Lewis Howes? Just watching those waves with no one on them is probably.
26:11 Speaker 00 Oh, it's terrifying. It's almost worse with someone on them because then you get the scale of actually how big it is.
26:17 Lewis Howes? They're just so tiny, huh?
26:18 Speaker 00 Terrifying.
26:19 Lewis Howes? Wow.
26:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:20 Lewis Howes? So let's talk about fear then, because how do you embrace the the concept of fear, especially, you know, before you got injured, after you got injured, you know, anytime when you're going out, how do you, I guess, get yourself ready, prepared for a big moment when you're terrified of the ocean?
26:37 Speaker 00 It's tough.
26:37 Lewis Howes? What's your, what's your process like?
26:39 Speaker 00 Um.
26:41 Lewis Howes? For me, how could people think about fear in their own way?
26:44 Speaker 00 I think you've got to break down fear first. There's, there's two kind of specific types. There's physical fear, physical damage, injury and dying, of course. And then there's that sort of egoic fear, you know, like failure, embarrassment, like all these things. And the surprising thing, they feel exactly the same. There's sort of no difference, the way your body reacts. And being a, I might not come across like it, but I'm a full blown introvert, right? So the, the embarrassment and all those types of fear. Just as bad, right? It's terrifying for me. I, I feels like I'm dying. Yeah. So I, I tried because I made this career out of two things, speaking and surfing that I'm both terrified of. Yeah.
27:27 Speaker 00 I thought possibly there was an answer to being successful here without having to go through all the fear. Read every piece of literature ever written about fear. Every psychologist, psychiatrist, successful businessman, athletes, everyone. And all the books say the same thing is experience is the only way you get through fear and they're spot on. Like you have to do something over and over and over again to become comfortable, to get the skill set. And then in that once terrifying environment, you feel good, you feel comfortable and you enjoy it, right? But getting the experience is scary in itself. So to me, the fundamental part of it is just motivation.
28:06 Speaker 00 Like you have to want it more than you fear it. You've got to want to succeed more than you feared doing what it takes to get there. Like that's the fundamental part. So for me, it's creating enough motivation first and foremost. Desire, understanding what you're chasing and why you're chasing it. Like you've got to create it, then of course go out and find out how to do it. Like, like I, I listen to your podcast and that tip of just finding the person who's the best at, at what you want to do and learning from them, right? And then so you've created the desire and then you take the steps to do what that person's doing. They're going to be scary on the way, but if the desire is there, you'll figure it out and being.
28:49 Speaker 00 As prepared as you can be is so important because there's that.
28:53 Lewis Howes? If you're not prepared, you're going to be fearful of like, oh, I'm not ready for this.
28:56 Speaker 00 Yeah. And, and there's that kind of, I always notice it with myself, the head in the sand approach is when you've got to do something scary. You know, it's coming up, but you don't want to think about it. So it's like, yeah, I'm going to do everything else. I'm going to deal with that on the day. Like I'm just going to wing it, you know, and that doesn't work. I mean, it saves you from having to think about it in the moment, but it doesn't work. When you turn up on the day, they're the days you're going to freeze up and you know, like not succeed basically. So the preparation's key and the preparation's hard. Like you, you know what it's like to speak. I mean, you're very extroverted. So it's a little more natural for you, but for me, learning to speak was, was harder than big wave surfing. Like to be a public speaker, standing on stage, I had.
29:38 Lewis Howes? Bigger audience.
29:39 Speaker 00 So much anxiety in the lead up to doing that. It's terrifying.
29:42 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
29:43 Speaker 00 But you have to do it to get good at it and to get comfortable. And finally, sort of after 10, 15 years, I'm a whole lot more comfortable at it, thankfully. It took a long time and I was like, am I ever going to get comfortable at this? I'm not, I don't know, like completely no fear, but.
29:57 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
29:57 Speaker 00 I'm a lot more comfortable and I enjoy it a lot more now too, because I'm comfortable.
30:01 Lewis Howes? Yeah. I remember when I started speaking 10 years ago, I was terrified of speaking in front of like a group of four people. Just because I didn't believe in myself and I think I was smart enough and I think I was funny enough or whatever. Um, and I remember it was just like, I'm sick and tired of feeling this fear. And a friend who was already a professional speaker recommended going to Toastmasters and it was like, you just need to go every single week for a year. And it's going to suck for the first few months. You're going to be miserable. You're going to be horrible there, but just continue to go and you'll get better. And I did that every single week. I went, practiced, stood in front of the room, like, and just felt the pain of embarrassment over and over again.
30:38 Speaker 00 It feels like you're dying.
30:41 Lewis Howes? I would practice for weeks of five minute speech, write it out word for word, look down at the paper when I was reading it, like just constantly. But every time I would gain a little bit more like ownership of that fear.
30:52 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:53 Lewis Howes? I was like, okay, it wasn't that bad. I made it through.
30:55 Speaker 00 Exactly.
30:56 Lewis Howes? I can go back and try it again and like get a little bit better. I think it's again, I was just, I had the desire that I didn't want to feel embarrassed anymore. Or afraid of, of just afraid of speaking in front of people. And I want to be able to have some type of way of delivering a message that people took action on. So I think it's, that's where you gotta have that desire first for sure. Otherwise, you're not gonna do it because it's fricking miserable.
31:17 Speaker 00 Yeah.
31:18 Lewis Howes? To go through that fear. It's miserable experience.
31:20 Speaker 00 Yeah. And then, I mean, so what does success look like for you? Like, why did you go and do that? You know what that moment looks like, right?
31:28 Lewis Howes? Yeah, for me, I knew that, you know, I was broke. I just got done playing professional football. I got injured, broke my wrist. And I was like, I can't sit here on my sister's couch anymore. You know, I was there for a year and a half and I was like, I need to learn some skills to make some money, to figure out how to get a job, to figure out something. And so I was just like, okay, this is one area of my life where I know that if I become an effective communicator, I can use it in a lot of different areas of my life. Whether I have a job or start something or whatever. And I saw it as an opportunity to really just transform the rest of my life. The, the, the capacity to stand in front of an audience and persuade them in taking action in something. In an idea, a thought, and just believing in you, whatever it may be.
32:12 Lewis Howes? And, um, you know, I'm 10 years in now, practice a lot. I still feel like I have a lot more to learn about it, but I don't fear it as much.
32:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:21 Lewis Howes? Sometimes I still get nervous, but it's not really as much. It's more fun.
32:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, I feel like there's a transition that happens is like, because it's so closely related, right? N- nervous and excited is almost the exact same thing. It's like, I feel like excited is when you're prepared. So it's like preparation meets nerves, but then it's excitement. If you're underprepared, it goes nervous and then frees up. So it's kind of that, that transition. Then all of a sudden you, I, I, I, I start to chase that feeling. Cause now like the nerves are excitement and I know on the other side of that, I'm gonna feel amazing. So it's almost like you, I did it in surfing and now I want to find that feeling in something else.
33:01 Lewis Howes? Right.
33:01 Speaker 00 So I kind of chase it everywhere now.
33:03 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure.
33:03 Speaker 00 Which is, it, it's hard. The hard part about it is. When you're doing things that are scary over and over again, you break down, right? Like, there has to be some sort of aspect where you take care of yourself on that road to pushing yourself. Like, kind of growth on one level, but then you have to support on the other level. Otherwise, you're gonna crash and burn.
33:24 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
33:24 Speaker 00 This is what happens. I'm kind of like the genius in hindsight on this topic because this is where all my injuries come from, because I didn't look after myself when I was sort of pushing myself.
33:36 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure. How do you stay focused, whether it be in your speaking career or on a big wave, when there's so many distractions around you, when you've got the cameras, the guy pulling you out, you've got whatever, other surfers around, and you're just trying to get one wave without dying? How do you stay focused, present, and at a peak level with all that happening?
33:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's the prep to get everyone and everything set up perfectly. And then my role is a single role, and I know exactly what that is. It's kind of, I need to get myself on the biggest wave or inside the biggest barrel, right? And, and if I do that, the rest of my team, they're gonna do what they're there for, and we're all gonna be successful, right? So, for me, I, I spend the time leading up to those moments focusing more on the outcome. Not as much the process, but I, I'd like to sit and visualize like the feeling of what it's gonna feel like. Either like sort of in that barrel or, or right after it when I come out and, and I just like all that relief comes off you from the fear of riding that way.
34:44 Speaker 00 And I feel like if, if I visualize that part over and over again, then I'll, I'll naturally make the right decisions in the moment. Sometimes, because I'm quite negative, like pessimistic when I, I think about things in the future. So, if I let that sort of mind rattle off, I'll think about all the things that could possibly go wrong in this surf. I'll think about wiping out, I'll think about the sharks that are swimming around, all the dangers, and I'll stress myself out. But before I even put a foot in the water, I'll be exhausted. So if I make sure I just focus on. The after fact and how good it's gonna feel. I think I'll I'll make the right decisions in that moment. Then you just gotta sort of let your instinct take over. Everything in surfing.
35:25 Lewis Howes? Yeah, yeah.
35:26 Speaker 00 Happens so fast.
35:27 Lewis Howes? Can't fake too much. It's gotta be.
35:28 Speaker 00 It happens so fast and most decisions there are all subconscious. Like you're not, you don't have time to sort of break anything down. That's why, yeah, it's a lot more of a reactive sport. Yeah, super reactive. Like on the other hand, I've been trying to learn how to play golf, which is the opposite.
35:44 Lewis Howes? Yes.
35:44 Speaker 00 It's all complete thought. Nothing's reactive and it's so much harder than surfing.
35:49 Lewis Howes? Yeah. What is uh, what does resilience mean to you? And is it the same thing as fearless?
35:54 Speaker 00 Um, definitely not. I think resilient is feeling the fear, doing it anyway, getting knocked down by the fear, but getting back up, learning from when you get knocked down and doing it again and again and again, until you feel comfortable and overcome that fear. That's resilience. Like there is, I don't believe anyone's fearless. I honestly can't imagine, like you get these phenomenal people that are amazing in their world and they're good at that thing. But if you take them to a foreign environment, they they're nervous because if it's foreign, it's different, it's changed and no one's like
36:34 Speaker 00 that special where they're not nervous in every environment. I saw Wim Hof on your podcast, for example.
36:40 Lewis Howes? He's amazing.
36:40 Speaker 00 How amazing is that guy, right? He's phenomenal. The stuff that he's done is like, it's not, it's barely humanly possible, right? Like he's an anomaly amongst humans, basically. And then I, so I follow him a lot as well and do a lot of his breathing techniques. And then I saw him give a TED Talk and he was like, got the nervous walls going. Like, not saying the talk wasn't amazing, it was phenomenal, but you can see that he's nervous on that stage. So it's just, it's a new world. Yeah. So it's just, to me, it's you just gotta be comfortable in that world and it takes resilience to keep pushing to get there. That's why I like, it's kind of.
37:22 Speaker 00 You wanna like self comparison's good, like compare yourself to who you were yesterday. I think it works a lot and that growth mindset, but comparing yourself to other people and saying, oh, I'm a scaredy cat compared to that person because he does that stuff, but he might have grown up doing that stuff. It's easy for him, you know? So you just go, it's better to, it's more motivating to just compare to who you were yesterday. And you're getting better and better and better and better. And eventually everyone will be looking at you thinking, you're phenomenal.
37:54 Lewis Howes? Right. Um, how do we capture these, these opportunities and moments during high risk situations? How do we make the most of those opportunities?
38:03 Speaker 00 I think it is that preparation that we've been talking about, setting up everything to be agile. Like in that moment, I think like even in business, it's the same. People think that like that company or that person or that athlete or that team are just so talented and they can pull anything off in that moment. But in reality, they're so prepared and so open to change and they've tested all these different things and they've taught themselves to react in a certain way. That when the moment comes around, they react correctly, you know? And if it doesn't, they make the best out of what happens if it goes pear shaped. And then it seems like they succeed, you know?
38:45 Speaker 00 And that's why for me, a lot of what I did in surfing was a numbers game. I figured if I surfed more big swells than everyone else, like I didn't just go to one or two or three that year. I went to 20 big swells. Then at the end of the day, when the companies look at who's the best big wave surfer in the world, I'd be winning just based on a numbers game, you know? There might've been way more talented surfers or guys that were on that day better than me. But overall, when they looked at the exposure, I'd be the one that they thought was the best.
39:17 Lewis Howes? Yeah, because you were everywhere, you got a bunch of big waves.
39:20 Speaker 00 So it's kind of creating the moments and then, you know, if it's a numbers thing, then you'll take advantage.
39:26 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
39:26 Speaker 00 Enough to be successful.
39:28 Lewis Howes? Yeah, I like that. It's kind of like finding a way that you can be the best at something, even though you're not the best at it.
39:33 Speaker 00 Exactly.
39:34 Lewis Howes? Like you're probably not the best. You haven't done the biggest wave in the world, you're probably, someone's got better technique, maybe someone doesn't crash as much.
39:41 Speaker 00 Someone might've got lucky on that day and got the biggest wave or, yeah, and then more genetically gifted. I'm the opposite from genetically gifted to be a surfer. I went recently and did a. Uh, they do a body measurements as part of a physical assessment to make a really specified training program. And I went in and the, the trainer was taking measurements and he got down on my legs and my quads and he took a measurement and he burst out laughing.
40:06 Lewis Howes? He was like, you're an average human being.
40:07 Speaker 00 He's like, you have the exact same size legs as Miss Universe.
40:13 Lewis Howes? Oh, wow.
40:13 Speaker 00 Jennifer Hawkins, Australian Miss Universe. I have the exact same size leg. I was born to be a female supermodel, not, not, not a professional surfer. Like surfing, you need to be low center of gravity, big stocky legs, balance. So I just figured I, I'd learn everything else to add to what I was doing. Kind of surround myself with amazingly talented people, like the best photographers, the best swell forecasts, the best P R people, best communication, like, and then what I was, yeah, they were taking what I was doing from here to here. And then I was above all the super talented surfers.
40:46 Lewis Howes? Right. I think a lot of, I think branding and storytelling goes a long way as well.
40:50 Speaker 00 A hundred percent.
40:51 Lewis Howes? If no one else is branding themselves as like the elite big wave surfer and have the best photos and getting the covers. It's like, a lot of it's perception.
40:58 Speaker 00 Yeah. I learned a lot of that from Laird. Like Laird was amazing at that. And I've heard you talk about it, like the branding is so important. It's kind of tough to do, like to self do it. Yeah. As an introvert feels so awkward, but um, you just, then I just surround myself with a really good P R person who can give me feedback or someone at the top of the game in the industry. And they like, I, I was on my way here and uh, spoke to Lisa, who I do some branding stuff and, and she's like, make sure you wear a collared shirt. You're a professional speaker now, you know, or make sure, like to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
41:32 Lewis Howes? Don't be a bum.
41:32 Speaker 00 Yeah. To me, like, it feels more normal to be a bum. So.
41:36 Lewis Howes? Yeah, exactly.
41:36 Speaker 00 Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Amazing people like make what you do a whole lot easier.
41:41 Lewis Howes? Yeah. What's some of the biggest lessons you learned from being a surfer that you've applied to life?
41:46 Speaker 00 Um, dealing with fears is the main one. Uh.
41:51 Speaker 00 Being able to handle um change and diversity because surfing is just non-stop change. And like a swell, you're trying to forecast it, you might forecast it wrong. On the day, it's bigger than you thought or smaller than you thought, you've got to make the most of the situation. Didn't go your way, you've got to get ready to go next way. And you're just like, everything we do is super fluid from riding the wave. Like you have to be agile enough to change with what the wave's gonna do. You can't know exactly what it's gonna do every time. And then everything about it is just constantly changing. So yeah, being agile enough and not rigid in the way you do what you do is is super important. Hard to do because naturally like habitual creatures that
42:35 Speaker 00 that wanna do everything the way we did it yesterday, you know, which I heard a funny quote that people have sixty thousand thoughts a day. And ninety percent of those thoughts are exactly the same as yesterday.
42:46 Lewis Howes? Really?
42:46 Speaker 00 Yeah. So you have non-stop that you think the same way unless you forcefully change it, you know, and then create a sort of new thinking pattern. So I think being fluid and being able to adapt to change, which has helped me in business as well as surfing and speaking and everything.
43:04 Lewis Howes? Is there anything that speaking has taught you about how to be a better surfer?
43:08 Speaker 00 Dealing with the stress, definitely. Yeah, the lead up to um speaking is terrifying for me. And uh taking techniques that I learnt from not getting really stuck in that negative thought chatter in your head in the lead up to speaking. So you can, I can think non-stop for twenty-four hours a day about how I'm gonna stuff up on stage, freeze up, no one's gonna like it, and your career's gonna go down the show. I can just think about that all the time. But learning to switch off from that, you can't stop the thoughts, but do things that take enough focus and you enjoy enough to not get caught up thinking about that.
43:48 Speaker 00 There's that moment where if you dwell on those thoughts long enough, they create the physical reaction in your body. And then your body becomes stressed, heart rate goes up, tie, you get the shoulders lifted.
44:00 Lewis Howes? Can't get in the flow.
44:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, and eventually you break down. Like, it's a big part of that, managing the long-term sort of sustainability of your performance. And so I I've found
44:11 Speaker 00 All the the techniques that that are out there are really good, but you've got to find the ones that work for you. So like yoga is amazing, meditation is amazing, but they might not suit you. So find your hobby or something that you love doing that's not super taxing, but takes you out of that negative thought process so that you get a break from that, you know?
44:31 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
44:31 Speaker 00 Because it's really hard to just stop that. It's kind of really ingrained.
44:35 Lewis Howes? Right. And do you have a ritual or routine in the morning when you go after a big wave? When it's like, we flew to Tasmania or here, is there a process you do in that morning? Yeah. First hour? What and what is that?
44:47 Speaker 00 I mean, the lead up in the week, I'm playing golf or doing something to not think too much about it. I'm preparing for a couple of hours in the morning, getting everything sorted, but then doing stuff to not think too much about it.
44:58 Lewis Howes? Relax.
44:58 Speaker 00 Relax, exactly. Yeah.
44:59 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
45:00 Speaker 00 Um, the hour of the morning, I'll sit probably for over an hour, 10 minutes, and remind myself why I'm doing it. Like, I I actually built an app for my phone. That's an alarm clock, right? So it wakes me up in the morning and plays a slideshow with my favorite song of all the reasons I'm doing this for.
45:20 Lewis Howes? Click a video or image slideshow?
45:21 Speaker 00 A video slideshow and it's just play and I see it, I watch it and it reminds me to do it. Because on the morning, like of a huge swell, I'm tired, I'm jet lagged.
45:31 Lewis Howes? You don't want to do it.
45:32 Speaker 00 I don't want to do it. A hundred percent don't want to do it. I would love to stay in bed.
45:36 Lewis Howes? Don't want to get injured, risk your life. Yeah.
45:38 Speaker 00 I don't want to bob around in water where there's great whites swimming around below me. Like, I'm terrified of this stuff. But I know that when I do go out and do it, when I ride that wave, it's going to feel the best feeling in the world. It's going to be successful for my career. It's going to make me be able to support my family. Like, all these things I look at and focus on consistently, you know? People say motivation doesn't work and it it's taxing, but you've just got to force yourself to do it. It's like training. So the hour in the lead up in the mornings before I go on surf, that's what I have to do.
46:09 Lewis Howes? You watched that video?
46:11 Speaker 00 Get myself out of bed, eat relatively light. Like, I can't have a super full stomach when you're rolling around underwater. So never eat fish too. I've got this paranoia thing. I'm like, if I eat fish, it's gonna be fish in me.
46:26 Speaker 00 So I eat something that's not fish, but um. Yeah, and then some breathing techniques, really good, like to energize myself, get me in that sort of positive frame of mind. And it gets you in the zone, you know, with Wim Hof's breathing is pretty amazing, Laird does it. And just get myself to that point where I'm feeling really good and excited about surfing. And then we get out there, assess the situation for a couple of hours, not even a couple, probably about an hour. I go around, see what the sets are doing, what direction the waves are coming from, where we got to position ourselves, where the photographers should be to capture the best stuff, do all of that, and then go and surf. And then at that point, it's less thinking and just what happens to happen, get out there and enjoy it. Yeah, enjoy it in that moment. So I I found that
47:11 Speaker 00 if I'm out in the surf and thinking too much about, I need to be the biggest one on the, like, if I I need to get a photo to get the sponsors happy. If I'm thinking about that while I'm actually surfing, the performance is not good. In that moment, it's just, wow, this is amazing. Yeah, so excited. I can feel the ocean. I know what's happening. And it's more that flow state, you know, don't think too much, just react.
47:34 Lewis Howes? No. Is there anything else about fear that you think we should hear about your process, or how you think about it, or how we can overcome it, or embrace it, or any other thing that you have to include about it?
47:46 Speaker 00 I think, uh, just for people, like, don't try and find that one thing that's going to help you. Like, fine, there's, I think, performance and performance is a whole part of dealing with the, it's like, it's like an amazing song, right? Has multiple pieces to it. To make an amazing song, you need a really good drum beat, you need a really good bass, you need an amazing hook or lead guitar, and you need vocals. You need multiple factors to make an amazing performing song, right? It's exactly the same in human performance. You need to look at the different areas of your life, whether it's the the physical aspect, diet and exercise, you need to look at the emotional side, like,
48:29 Speaker 00 how well do you work emotionally? Do you understand the way you react, the way other people react? You've got to take time on that. You've got to take time on your network and your relationships. And you need to do something in each of these quadrants. And and of course, the IQ side of what you do. How are you going to be successful? Do one little thing in each of those quadrants? Then the snowball happens. Do one thing. It sounds like a real average song. You just listen to Dropbeat. It's kind of cool, but do all of them. You've got an amazing song.
48:59 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
49:00 Speaker 00 So that's, I think, don't look for the one thing. Just make a few small changes. Eat good, eat a little bit better. Do a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit there, and then the performance comes.
49:10 Lewis Howes? To optimize your performance.
49:11 Speaker 00 Exactly, yeah.
49:12 Lewis Howes? Wow. Anything else you want to share? Anything else on your mind?
49:16 Speaker 00 Um, I'm in rehab at the moment. Um, the doctors have said I won't surf big waves again. I'm telling them I will. And I told them, if, if you don't think I can, then chop my leg off, I'll surf on a pole, because I've seen surfers ride with amputees.
49:31 Lewis Howes? Really?
49:31 Speaker 00 Yeah. I said, if you don't think it's going to get better, chop it off at the knee and I can surf.
49:34 Lewis Howes? Shut up.
49:35 Speaker 00 Yeah. But they said it's going to be better than that. And I said, well, then I can surf. So I'm uh, in the process of rehabbing that. I'm hoping I'm back this time next year, if not late season, November in Hawaii surfing decent sized waves.
49:49 Lewis Howes? This year?
49:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. Next year, no, November next year.
49:52 Lewis Howes? It's like a year and a few months.
49:53 Speaker 00 One more operation and then a year and a few months.
49:56 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you should probably rest it.
49:57 Speaker 00 If you want to follow the uh, journey on Instagram or my site, markmathews.com. So.
50:02 Lewis Howes? Markmathews.com.
50:03 Speaker 00 Follow the journey. It'll be interesting and see if I can make it back.
50:07 Lewis Howes? On Instagram as well?
50:07 Speaker 00 Uh, at Mark Matthews Surf on Instagram.
50:09 Lewis Howes? Okay, cool. Awesome. Um, cool. Well, you have any questions for me before I ask the final few questions?
50:16 Speaker 00 Uh, well, why don't we break down? I mean, this is that performance model for me. So why don't you give some, because I watch all the podcasts. I want to know how you got to the point that you are, like where you get to that successful. So if you can give us, what's something that you do in the IQ space, like the mental side of what you do to know how to be successful?
50:34 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
50:35 Speaker 00 Like a tip there, a tip on the relationship front, the networking, a tip on physical, what do you do physically to stay in good shape? And then so mental, physical and emotionally, like gratitude or.
50:48 Lewis Howes? Yeah, I think the.
50:49 Speaker 00 Some tips from you would be amazing for me.
50:51 Lewis Howes? I mean, I don't think it's much different. And I think a lot of people are always looking for the secret weapon or something. But I think it's like, the more simplified you can be, the more effective you can be. I'm always looking for ways to be more aware of what what's working for me and what's not working.
51:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:06 Lewis Howes? So it's just more of like awareness.
51:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:09 Lewis Howes? First off.
51:09 Speaker 00 A good self-assessment.
51:10 Lewis Howes? Being aware of like, oh, my ego's flaring up in this situation. I wasn't listening here. I'm not patient here. Okay, I'm aware. So it's first step is.
51:21 Speaker 00 That's emotional intelligence.
51:22 Lewis Howes? Yeah, being aware and then being like, okay. What can I improve in my, you know, my reactions or my my ego or whatever may be in that situation? Maybe I was triggered in something in business or a personal relationship or intimate relationship. So how can I be patient in that and moving forward so that I don't feel this negative reaction and don't cause this argument or whatever it may be? So first step is being aware and then figuring out, okay, what can I work on moving forward in that situation? In terms of a mental, I would say it's preparing myself every single day for what's to come.
51:57 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:57 Lewis Howes? So visualizing and met it through meditation in the morning of the perfect day that I want to create. And it's thinking about what do I want to have happen today? What are the experiences? What are the relationship conversations? What are the feelings I want to have? Kind of like when you drop in that wave? What do I want to experience in my business? When I go to that meeting later, what's going to happen? What's the outcome? What do I like?
52:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
52:20 Lewis Howes? And.
52:21 Speaker 00 That's where it's transitioning, right? Because you're setting yourself. It's like going to the gym in the morning, but for your mind.
52:25 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
52:25 Speaker 00 Setting your day up.
52:26 Lewis Howes? My gym, man.
52:27 Speaker 00 Yeah. And then being self-aware, creating that emotional intelligence.
52:32 Lewis Howes? Exactly.
52:33 Speaker 00 Physically, what diet, exercise?
52:35 Lewis Howes? Well, I think also, you know, thinking about the dream that I have for the day. And then setting the intention, saying, okay, this is what I'm intending to create. And really being intentional and grounded in why I want to create that.
52:47 Speaker 00 There's direction.
52:48 Lewis Howes? Exactly.
52:48 Speaker 00 Inspiration.
52:49 Lewis Howes? And always coming back to like my bigger vision and purpose, my why. So while you do this like little video in the morning.
52:54 Speaker 00 Yeah.
52:55 Lewis Howes? About, okay, I want to impact a hundred million people. Why do I want to do that? And just kind of leaning into that.
53:00 Speaker 00 How amazing is it when it's something external, how much more motivating it is, or how much easier it is to push through that bit of fear? Like if you're like, you can help.
53:09 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
53:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, a hundred thousand people today by making yourself a little bit uncomfortable.
53:13 Lewis Howes? That's it. Yeah. When you do something, when I do something that's bigger than myself, I feel like it's much more rewarding. If it's just for me, then it's not as fulfilling. The physical side, uh, I mix it up all the time, but I try to do something to put myself through pain every day. It could be a yoga, it could be a HIIT workout, it could be a run for three miles, it could be anything. Could be something in my bedroom where I'm just doing a bunch of, you know, pushups until a failure.
53:36 Speaker 00 Yeah.
53:36 Lewis Howes? Whatever it is, I'm trying to put myself through pain, even just for a few moments. Because that's going to train my mind to be able to take on more pain throughout the day or any type of aggressive thoughts, situations, fear, I've taken on a little bit. So I've, uh, trained my body and my heart to experience it when it comes and not be affected by it as much. So I do something every single day. I try to every day to do that.
54:02 Speaker 00 It definitely transitions. When you do that physically, feel the pain, push through it. You're going to be the exactly same way mentally.
54:09 Lewis Howes? Exactly. And then, so all these things for me build up, uh, the amount of energy that you have to assess situations and experiences every single moment. And to be able to perform at a high level. And the last thing.
54:21 Speaker 00 Network. Where like, how are you, you're sitting on the plane with Tony Robbins and Tim Ferriss?
54:27 Lewis Howes? Before I get to network, let's talk about the.
54:29 Speaker 00 Relationship.
54:29 Lewis Howes? Let's talk about food because.
54:31 Speaker 00 Ah, yeah, diet exercise.
54:32 Lewis Howes? I think, uh, our body is, you know, made up of these cells. And if we're feeding our body, uh, poison, then we're, we're developing this aggressive, toxic, cancerous experience in our energy and our physiology and our body. And when we do that, it's really hard to. Have full engagement throughout the day.
54:54 Speaker 00 Hundred percent.
54:54 Lewis Howes? And get in the zone.
54:55 Speaker 00 Yeah.
54:55 Lewis Howes? Because our body is drained to a level where we're performing at seventy percent as opposed to potentially a hundred percent. So it's how can we capitalize on each area with the food? And recently I cut out all sugar, refined sugar.
55:08 Speaker 00 Same thing.
55:08 Lewis Howes? All dairy, all gluten.
55:10 Speaker 00 Yeah.
55:10 Lewis Howes? And it's like, I just feel different, you know, everywhere in my body, I just feel different and I feel also like emotionally good because I'm doing something positive for my body.
55:21 Speaker 00 Hundred percent.
55:21 Lewis Howes? I'm not perfect and I'm sure I'm gonna, you know, cheat every now and then, but it's like, what would happen if I actually eliminated that for the rest of my life? Like, how much younger would I feel? How much more energy would I have?
55:30 Speaker 00 A hundred percent, you just added twenty years to your life for one thing.
55:33 Lewis Howes? Exactly. Uh, on the relationship side of things, it's always about how can I s- how can I come from such a place of giving and love? And support first as opposed to ever asking anything first. So I'm always thinking of like, you know, I think we're always in a relationship for selfish reasons. Because we like the person, because we wanna be friends with them, because we like who they are, because they make us feel a certain way, because maybe it's a business relationship where you can, you make money together. Every relationship is for selfish reasons. But I think if we can come to the relationship and saying, I'm not trying to do this to gain, but I'm trying to do this to give first. And maybe one day something good will come in return if it's a business relationship. That's the way I think about it.
56:17 Lewis Howes? I've been building relationships for eight, nine, ten years that haven't really paid off and like benefiting me in a, in a big way and I didn't go into them trying to think of like, I'm gonna do something for them and then they're gonna give me something in return. It always seems to work its way out. Like, the more that I give, year after year after year without ever asking for things, people just want to give back. They're just like, how can I support you? Like, you've helped me so much, what can I do? And when it makes sense, I'm like, you know, well, here's my book, it's coming out or here's something else, but I never try to just ask all the time. I try to really give a lot, so I think.
56:52 Speaker 00 Such an interesting side.
56:53 Lewis Howes? When we come from that mindset of like, I'm building this relationship for life. As opposed to what can I gain from this person right now? It. Changes the the game for you.
57:03 Speaker 00 Yeah.
57:04 Lewis Howes? So come from that place. So those are some of the things that I try to do that have that I think have helped me get to the level I'm at and I am going to continue to develop new things to get some higher levels.
57:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, I love it. And you can see how they all cross over like you eat well, you feel better and then you're nicer to people and you're nicer to people and the relationships happen and
57:22 Lewis Howes? That's it.
57:22 Speaker 00 And they teach you more and it all just like snowballs if you do something little. Yeah.
57:27 Lewis Howes? That's it.
57:27 Speaker 00 Love that.
57:28 Lewis Howes? You know, I'm not perfect. I make a lot of mistakes every day, but it's always trying to be aware of like, okay. All right, how can I get better tomorrow? And I think if we look at that point of view of how can I just get a little bit better tomorrow? Be aware of the things that worked and it didn't work, then it's all going to work out.
57:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
57:42 Lewis Howes? So, um. Let's go to a final couple of questions for you. Uh, this is called the three truths. So if, uh, you know, it's your last day, many years from now, you got to achieve everything you ever wanted to achieve. You got to have a life you dreamed of, it all happened. Uh, and but it's your last day and you have a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true about every lesson you've ever had from big wave serving to relationships to speaking to anything you want to do in the future. But it all boils down to three lessons, three truths. And this is what you'd be remembered by.
58:17 Speaker 00 We'll give you one.
58:19 Lewis Howes? What would be three?
58:20 Speaker 00 Um, life short. That's and and I'm plagued by this, but I feel like it's so motivating. It happens nonstop to me. I'm like, whoa, that 10 years just went really quick. I don't want to die full of regret. So I just think life short, we've got a limited amount of time on this planet. Make the most out of it.
58:39 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
58:39 Speaker 00 Uh, life short.
58:42 Speaker 00 Don't take everything too seriously. I mean, because life short, don't worry about stupid things, especially in the in the fear realm of the the egoic fear, like not the, you got to take the serious stuff when it's about getting injured or dying, but the egoic side, don't take everything seriously. You're gonna one day lying on your deathbed and you go, I can't believe I was so worried about that, or I can't believe I didn't try to do that because I was embarrassed or scared in that way. So. Life short, don't take everything too seriously and uh eat well, like you said, eat well and it's, I did the exact same thing you did and I've never been one to be super focused on diet. I kinda like, ah, I can get away with it. I do lots of exercise.
59:26 Speaker 00 I can eat whatever, but you start to break down and when you start to break down physically, that's where everything else falls apart and that's why I get all the injuries and stuff. And I've learnt, if there's one thing you can do diet wise, it's sugar. Get rid of it. And it's surprising how amazing it makes you feel.
59:44 Lewis Howes? Feel so much better.
59:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, there's, those three things, um, I wouldn't leave out family and just be good to your family and friends is super important too. So I got four, cheated.
59:55 Lewis Howes? That's cool. It's all good. It's all good. Uh, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Mark, for your courage, man. You've got this amazing story, uh, and you, you could have gone down a negative path when you were younger and you went down a positive path to inspire others, to be there for your family and to do things that bring inspiration to so many young kids, probably growing up, who want to do what you're doing. So your courage, your humility of being, you know, one of the biggest surfers in the world, but still being this humble, uh, person that's grateful for all the things that you've achieved and the people that have supported you, your team and your ability to smile and be grateful through all the pain and the discomfort and the, you know, the challenges you've faced.
1:00:38 Lewis Howes? For me, it's a great example of how to live a good life. So I want to acknowledge you for those things.
1:00:43 Speaker 00 Man, thank you so much. It feels great.
1:00:45 Lewis Howes? Good, good. Uh, final question for you, uh, and people can connect with you at markmatthews.com. Is that right?
1:00:52 Speaker 00 Matthews, one T.
1:00:54 Lewis Howes? Matthews, one T. Mark Matthews Surf on Instagram. Um, you speak. So if people want to hire you to speak, they can learn more at your site. Um, no book yet, right?
1:01:03 Speaker 00 It's coming. Yeah. I feel like, um, I'm more, I learn so much of amazing people. I'd rather just direct them. It's like, so when people want to know about this thing, I say Lewis Howes, man, go to his thing, join the school of greatness.
1:01:15 Lewis Howes? There you go.
1:01:16 Speaker 00 You can learn or this dude for diet or this dude for, I just pass it on.
1:01:20 Lewis Howes? Sure, cool. Well, final question is, what's your definition of greatness?
1:01:26 Speaker 00 Being better than who you were yesterday is, for me, greatness, because that feels amazing. Yeah. Don't, don't, less external comparison, just compare yourself to who you were yesterday and be better than that person.
1:01:40 Lewis Howes? There you go.
1:01:40 Speaker 00 That's greatness.
1:01:41 Lewis Howes? Mark Matthews, thanks, man.
1:01:42 Speaker 00 Thank you so much. It's been fun.
1:01:46 Lewis Howes? There you have it, guys. If you enjoyed this episode, let me know about it. Tag me on Instagram Stories, on your page, on Twitter, @lewishouse, anywhere. And put the link in there, lewishouse.com/515. To get the full video overview, the show notes, the behind the scenes, go back to our show notes, @lewishouse.com/515. You're gonna see a video of Mark's leg, which is just crazy what he's been through from this accident and how he's recovering. So you're gonna see it in the video. We show it in the first few minutes. If you want to watch that, go check it out. And make sure to let your friends know about this. Again, "He who is not every day conquering some fear
1:02:28 Lewis Howes? has not learned the secret of life," said Ralph Waldo Emerson. And I'm telling you, guys, if you want to live a happier life, learn to embrace and start overcoming fears to the best of your ability every single day. The more you do this, the more confident you feel, the more at peace you feel. You feel less worried and stressed because you're not living in this anxiety and this fear every single day when something comes up that you're afraid of, because you start embracing it and learning to become a master of it. All right, guys, I hope you enjoyed this one, and remember that you're here for a reason. You're here for a reason, and it's to discover what your dreams are. It's to discover how much love you have within your heart.
1:03:11 Lewis Howes? It's to connect with people in the world that bring you joy and that you can give support back to as well. You've been given so much support throughout your life, whether you know it or not. So many people have been a part of your story. The people that came before you, the people that are here now, who have helped you get to where you're at. Even if you're frustrated with so many people in your life, a lot of them have been a building block for you to get here now. So, express the gratitude to the people in your life. Make sure you're giving back to the best of your ability and continue to pursue your dreams. I love you, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.
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