488 John Gray: Overlooked and Undervalued but Not Forgotten

"You can be overlooked and undervalued, but you are not forgotten." - John Gray If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/488 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 488 with John Gray.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  We have a powerful leader in the School of Greatness headquarters today. His name is John Gray, and he is a pastor, singer, and comedian who was born in Cincinnati, Ohio. That's right, you guys know I'm from Ohio, so this is gonna be a fun one for me. He is also the son of two musically gifted parents, and he currently serves as an associate pastor at Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, under Joel Olsteen. And John is also the face of the Oprah Winfrey Network's new show, The Book of John Gray, which is a docu-series hybrid about his life and family while helping others with and through significant issues in very unconventional ways. And he's also got a new book out called I Am Number Eight.

• 1:17Lewis Howes?

  And I heard him speak at Oprah's Super Soul Sessions recently, and literally was blown away by who he is as a person, how he performs and speaks on stage, and how he captivates through his message. One of probably the top five speakers I've ever seen in my life, hands down. It was unbelievable to witness. And I said, I gotta have this guy on. I gotta learn more about his story. I gotta learn how he got to where he's at, how he's built this massive impact through this huge audience, and just more about him. And wow, I'm blown away by the stories that he's about to share with you through the challenges he's been through,

• 1:57Lewis Howes?

  and all of the things that he's learned along the way. We talk about why drawing a crowd doesn't mean you have a committed core. Also, why you can't preach a sermon that you haven't lived. And for those listening, you can't really teach something you haven't lived either. The person you have to like the most in order to be successful in life. What loving yourself has to do with loving others. And how the things you don't have define who you actually are today. But before we begin, I want to give a quick shout out to the review of the week over on iTunes. This is from Base Ben, who says, "Such a deep and powerful discussion. This completely hit the spot and for me cleared some things up.

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  I really didn't want to like your podcast because I listened to so many good ones and I didn't want to add more. However, I can't help it. I can see a huge benefit in listening. Thank you so, so much." Base Ben, I know there's tons of options out there, but that means the world to me. So, thank you for being the iTunes review of the week. And if you guys want to leave a review for how the show has impacted your life in any way, then go to iTunes.com/greatness and leave a review right now. And without further ado, guys, let's dive in with the one, the only, John Gray.

• 3:21Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got John Gray in the house. Good to see you, my man.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  What's going on, my man?

• 3:26Lewis Howes?

  It's El Boogie.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  I'm El Boogie in the house.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  Something good. John Gray, yeah. No, I never heard about you until about a month ago.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:33Lewis Howes?

  And I went to Super Soul Sessions and I almost left after lunch. You know, everyone's hanging out at lunch and Oprah was walking around and everyone else back there walking around.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Right, which is so crazy that Oprah Winfrey's just walking around during lunch.

• 3:46Lewis Howes?

  And I was just like, should I go say hi to her? Nah, I'll be good, you know?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:50Lewis Howes?

  I'll wait for the moment. And I was gonna leave because I had some other commitment I needed to go to. But I was like, you know, let me just check out this guy for like five minutes. Because you were the, I think the next speaker.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:00Lewis Howes?

  Right after lunch. And um, man, I, I needed to leave like right then after five minutes, but I couldn't leave. Cause you were so captivating, you were so um fascinating in your ability to teach and inspire and land a principle, but also entertain and make us laugh and dancing, singing, you were like bridging the gap and doing the whole thing. And I was just, I was even more happy to know that you're from Ohio.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 4:27Lewis Howes?

  Cause I love having people on here.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Come on, man, born and raised, Cincinnati.

• 4:30Lewis Howes?

  That's it, yeah. So about an hour and a half away from me in, in Columbus, where I live for most of the time. But I would drive a truck when I was chasing my dream to play professional football. I had a part-time job. Uh, where I would drive a truck from Columbus to Cincinnati and back every single day.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  I seventy-one.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  That's it, man. It was the most boring ride.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, except when you get to Kings Island. You see Kings Island off to the left-hand side coming, coming south, yeah.

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  Roller coaster, yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:57Lewis Howes?

  Um, but uh, I'm so glad you're here. I appreciate it. I know you're a busy guy right now.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  It's my honor, man. What you're doing is just phenomenal and I'm grateful to be invited.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  We have a lot of mutual friends. Devon Franklin was talking about you last week when I was connecting with him.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  I hope he said something good.

• 5:11Lewis Howes?

  Said some great things about you.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  I say something nice about him, but he's always in shape and he's always challenging me to get in shape and I'm sick of it. You know, cause he's got like an eight pack and I got a keg, so.

• 5:21Lewis Howes?

  He shredded.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are too. You got cowbells in here.

• 5:23Lewis Howes?

  You know.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  And so I'm trying to work out. I'm already sore. I lifted the thing four times. I feel like I pulled my owner misgus, meniscus deltoid.

• 5:33Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Um, you know, I think your, your story is fascinating, man. You are a, you're, you're a preacher or pastor in, in Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, under Joel Stein, right? Who I think you said is like the nicest guy.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  He genuinely is like the nicest person. And it, it's creepy because he's so disciplined and he's so kind to everyone. And I'm like, does he ever have one of those days? And if he does, I've never seen it.

• 5:58Lewis Howes?

  He must be at home when he's just like, let's.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, he just throws stuff like, Victoria, I said, I don't want water, you know?

• 6:04Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  But he's a great guy.

• 6:06Lewis Howes?

  When you have that much discipline and your daily habits and your routines and how you show up to the world and how you treat other people, good things are gonna happen to you.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and I think the word that you said was the key is discipline. I know that he has a strict routine on, you know, his study time, his exercise and all of the things, and he keeps his circle very close and very small. And I think as you, as I've learned, as God's opened up more doors, you know, the higher you go, your inner circle has to kind of remain small.

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  Didn't Obama say that, like, no new friends when he got in office?

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Listen, I, I agree with our former president in that. I look at the life of, of Jesus when he was getting ready to, it was, there's a story called the Mount of Transfiguration, and he goes up, and he leaves most of the disciples at the base of the mountain, and he takes Peter, James, and John. And he always had Peter, James, and John at these key moments, which means sometimes even the people that you roll with, everybody in the crew can't go. And so I'm learning that as I've matured, there are certain things that, you know, everybody's just not to be privy to. And so the, I guess the discipline is learning who can go where and, and at what moments in my life.

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or maybe you just don't have the energy to have a thousand people with you at the, you know, all the time. It's like, you can only handle three to five, you know?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah, I don't have limitless energy. I've gotta, I've gotta figure out who matters. And right now, I'm learning that, right now, my wife, my kids, I got a five-year-old and a four-year-old.

• 7:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  You know, and I've got all these invitations coming in. My wife was like, you can't take that. I was like, that's huge. She said, your daughter has a dance recital. And I was like, wow, so do I take this opportunity for people who don't know me to meet me? Or do I take this thirty-five minutes and invest into my daughter?

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  And so now I realize that she wouldn't necessarily, she won't remember that I was there, but she would remember if I wasn't.

• 7:59Lewis Howes?

  That's tough.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  And so, you know, every no, every yes to someone else is a no to my kids and my wife. So I'm learning that they now have to become my focal point in how I focus my energy.

• 8:11Lewis Howes?

  What made you want to become, you know, a pastor? Because you were, you went to Worcester.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  Did you play football there?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  No, I played lunch.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  I played lunch and gym. Uh, I went there for a year and a half.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Um, I did not want to be a pastor. That was not on my list of things to do. I wanted to be a lawyer. Uh, I wanted to be a singer. I loved Luther Vandross growing up, singing R and B. I grew up singing in church and I wanted to be a singer.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, I heard you sing Whitney Houston. It was pretty amazing.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yo, I hit the note. I had a light head when I got finished. I was like, I just hit the note. That was good. It would have been horrible if I had cracked. But, um, you know, I wanted to be a lawyer. I wanted to be a singer. But at 13, I knew that my life's calling was ministry. I didn't know what that looked like. But there was something that happened to me in a small Baptist church in Cincinnati. I was at a revival. I think it was a Tuesday night. And while I'm sitting in the audience, I was impressed in my spirit. I felt like God said, I'm calling you into ministry. I was so depressed. It was like, no, because a lot of the preachers that I saw, you know, seemed to live these, you know, insular, singular, very monotonous lives. And I didn't want that.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  I felt like my personality was, was developing in a different way. And I didn't want to become one thing in front of people and be somebody else off, off the platform. And that's something else that I had seen through the years, that you can preach a thing and not actually live that thing. And, and that's not being judgmental. It's just something that I observed. And I remember having an honest conversation with God. And I said, God, I don't want to be like any of those people. He said, that's why I called you, because I want you to be authentically you. I said, well, I'm going to tell the truth and I'm going to tell them where I messed up. And I'm going to tell them where I failed. And I'm going to tell them my scars. He was like, great, because that's what we need. I think for too long, in certain areas of religious thought, we have put this idea of piety as perfection.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't need Jesus in my life because I got it together. I'm broken. And, and so this idea of, you know, me on this high pulpit and people down here, I, I dismantled that. I'm like, it's, this is a conversation between two people who are searching for something bigger than themselves.

• 10:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  And over, over the years, I've been able to develop, I believe, an ability to communicate across borders. Because people invariably have discernment for authentic hearts.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Even if there are personality differences, they can spot a pure heart and a pure motive. Nobody likes to be manipulated. And for a long time, certain people in religious thought have used manipulation and fear as tactics and tools to try to indoctrinate. And I don't fit that model. I defy, I don't like it, I'm sick of it. I think people need to be able to make whatever choice they choose to make on how they want to divi- to define their path to truth, to something bigger than themselves, or nothing bigger than themselves. But if the conversation comes up, don't let it be out of manipulation and fear. Let it be from an authentic place, uh, and be filled with grace and humility. Stop beating people up. We already know we're broken. I don't need you to remind me.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  I need you to tell me that there's some hope, that, that I'm loved, that I have value. And I think those are the, the foundational tenets of, of, uh, kind of where, where I wanna, how I wanna be defined as a preacher.

• 11:39Lewis Howes?

  Now, now educate me and the audience, as a preacher, what are the responsibilities? You have a church that you show up to once a week, multiple times? Like, what are the actual responsibilities?

• 11:50Speaker 01

  So, I, I'm, I'm an associate pastor at Lakewood, and my primary responsibility is our midweek service. So, it's Wednesday night, and we have weekend services. So, we have three, you know, big weekend services, Saturday night to Sunday morning. And then we have a midweek, which is Wednesday. And my primary responsibility has been building our midweek for the past four years. And so, we have our music, we have our prayer, um, and then I'll share whatever the Lord has put on my heart. And it's grown, man, from, you know, maybe twenty-five hundred to probably eight or nine thousand.

• 12:28Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  On a, on a Wednesday, and I think that's-

• 12:30Lewis Howes?

  That's big.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  I, yeah, man, and I-

• 12:32Lewis Howes?

  Wednesday night.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Wednesday night.

• 12:33Lewis Howes?

  One hour.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  One hour. Yeah, it's white church. It's not no black church. If it was a black church, we'd be in there for about four hours.

• 12:40Lewis Howes?

  There's no start, no stop.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Let's take a lunch break, uh, for about thirty minutes, get some fried chicken downstairs. And, and I love that tradition. I'm not, you know, and that's kind of a part of where I came from. But you know, I love the fact that for an hour and fifteen minutes, people can come in and just get their batteries recharged. Get some hope, know that they're loved by God, that they're not being beaten up. And they're going to get something that resonates. You can't force people.

• 13:05Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  To especially now, this this whole millennial generation and even Gen Xers. They're not on manipulation. If if it's not real, they're not coming. They're not religious in their expression, so they're not gonna show up if they don't connect to it.

• 13:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  And so for people to make a decision to interrupt their regular routine, that means something to me.

• 13:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  I take that as a high responsibility, you know?

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  Wow. How many people show up on the weekend then, like a normal?

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I I think the weekend services probably see maybe thirty thousand, forty thousand somewhere in there.

• 13:39Lewis Howes?

  Session?

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, it the like overall.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  Got it.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Cause it seats sixteen thousand in there.

• 13:44Lewis Howes?

  So you're putting half the house in a midweek.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And then a normal session will be like almost fifteen.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  I would say ten, twelve thousand, somewhere in there.

• 13:54Lewis Howes?

  So not that much more.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Nah, not that much. It's still crazy when you think about it, right? Cause I grew up with like three hundred people like, wow, this place is packed, you know?

• 14:03Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  But you know.

• 14:04Lewis Howes?

  Is that the biggest church in?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  It's the biggest single built, single size or single building church in America.

• 14:11Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Seats sixteen thousand plus.

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Used to be where the Houston Rockets played. How do you just take a building that the Rockets used to play at and turn it, I'm gonna turn this into a church. We need some stained glass over here.

• 14:24Lewis Howes?

  And Joel did this, is that right or no?

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, he and his family were the spear, they spearheaded that transition. And it's a testimony to his, I believe, not only his integrity, but his love for people.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  What's the, what's the biggest um challenge you would say that some of these bigger churches have? And what people, it's, you know, either members or people that were members maybe don't appreciate about some of the things they do. Cause I'm out of this world, so I don't know.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I think.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  That's an interesting question. I think some of the biggest challenges are rooted in what I believe individual leaders finding so much of their identity in the, in what they do as far as the church, that they don't know how to separate their calling from their ego.

• 15:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because when they have all these people constantly coming to them and.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and all of a sudden you want people to worship you instead of God. And I think for me, what I've been able to do is maintain the very healthy and necessary distance between my incredible normalcy and the incredible divinity that I believe in. And, and so for me, I don't, I never want people to come to me. People are always like, you should open your own church. I'm like, for what? We got enough churches. We don't need another church. We just need truth and we need people with the right heart. And I think there are times when some leaders have been insecure and because they identify success with numbers,

• 15:56Speaker 01

  they'll do anything to get a crowd, but a crowd doesn't mean you have a committed core. Um, you can draw a crowd, you know, with prizes and things. But if you want something that's healthy and organic, then let it grow naturally. And be authentically who you are. And I think that, uh, what people have, uh, tasted has not always been authentic. And so people aren't really for that anymore. It's just like, I don't, I don't need that. You know, I can get the God in my house. I can pray on my own or I can watch Super Soul Sunday or, you know, I can, or I can just be quiet and meditate. You know, what's, what's the draw? And so it's become almost like, especially Western,

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Westernized Christian, Christian thought in some areas. Again, I don't want to draw a big.

• 16:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Paint with a broad brush, but in some areas it's become entertainment driven to the point that there's a very little distinction between that and, you know, any of the other entertainment products that we have. And I'm all for cutting edge technology, lights, music, sound. But if you don't have humility and if you don't have a heart for people, it will not last. And so, serve God, serve people, uh, live quietly and, and don't, don't judge. That's the biggest thing, I think. Oh, absolutely. People don't like the religious element of church of the judgment, right? Absolutely. This idea of judgment comes from, you know, an individual's perspective.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  I think one of the biggest challenges the church has in certain areas is that certain segments of the church have answered questions nobody was asking. I don't get to come into your life and tell you, hey, Lewis, don't you drink that water. That water is wrong. How dare you drink that sin water? That water is sin. Hey, guess what? I didn't even introduce myself to you. Guess what? We don't have a relationship. Guess what? You're already offended. Because I came into your life without knowing your background or why you're drinking that water and told you it was wrong based on my perspective. I don't get to do that. And what I've seen is that people are pointing this way instead of looking this way and saying, hey, Lewis, you know what?

• 18:10Speaker 01

  I don't drink this water. You know why? Because in my experience, I've found that this water is not beneficial to me because of X, Y, and Z. Now, what I did is I showed you my process. I didn't judge you for yours. And that's the problem with, uh, places that don't want to build bridges. They kind of want to build their, their own little island. And this is, these are my people and this is how I think. And that's not, that's not who I saw Jesus being in the New Testament. And so, I, I don't get a, sometimes I don't have friends on the conservative, you know, spectrum of Christian thought because I paint, uh, a bridge big enough for everybody to get over.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Because I know who I am and I know my weak areas and I know my broken places. And I saw my family and I saw addiction and I saw what drugs did to family members. And I saw mental illness and I saw brokenness and single mothers and aunts raising kids without the husband there. And I saw, you know, some of the levels of depravity that can happen when you don't have an anchor in faith. And so, I'm not going to let people beat up people who are walking through real life and you don't know their story. And so, I'm very, very defensive of people who attempt to try to define for others what truth is. Yeah.

• 19:33Lewis Howes?

  What's the biggest challenge you're facing in your life right now? Biggest, biggest obstacles?

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 19:39Lewis Howes?

  You've got it, you got a, you know, your pastor at the biggest church in the country, you've got a book out right now, which is called, what's it called?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  I am number eight.

• 19:47Lewis Howes?

  I am number eight. You've got a, a hit show on, on the own network with Oprah. You're on Super Soul Sunday, Super Soul Sessions. You've got all these things that are working for you. What's not working for you?

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Boy, that's good. Um. I think I struggle with daddy issues. And.

• 20:07Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean for you?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  My mom and dad divorced when I was very young. And my father was not a strong part of my development. I saw him four times before I died. I can almost tell you every single word he's ever said to me in my life.

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I remember him holding my hand as we walked across the street. I remember the five dollars he gave me on the steps of St. John AME Church.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Before the funeral for his uncle. I remember him telling me that the divorce and what happened between him and my mom was his fault. Uh, I remember him calling me drunk from bars in New York, telling me he loved me, calling me collect. I remember the last time I spoke to him, I was heading down Route One South in New Jersey to my one bedroom apartment. It was my first uh, job in church as a youth pastor. My father was talking to me on the phone and he was kind of incoherent. I didn't know if it was due to medicine or if he had been drinking or both. Uh, but it was raining and I remember him saying, son, are you driving with your cell phone? This was back in two thousand. And, uh, I said, yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Dad, I'm, I got my phone in my hand. And he said, call me back when you get home. Don't, don't drive with your phone in your hand. I love you. I said, I love you too. He was real dramatic. His voice was always like Charlton Heston, top of the mountain. I don't know where he got that from. But I remember hanging up the phone. I didn't call him back. I guess a week later or less, my mother called me and said, your father's in terrible trouble. He's in a coma in New York. I lived in Jersey at the time. And so I took the train over. I drove over to see him. And, you know, he never woke up from that coma. And I think that was probably around October.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  And I happened to have meetings in New York on December 7th of 2000. And after the meeting I had, God said, go see your dad. And so I couldn't get a cab. Nobody would pick me up. And I'm walking to East 23rd and 1st Street in Manhattan. Get to the Veterans Hospital. I go up and I see this man who I come from, whose name I carry, John Gray Jr., John Gray III. And I realized that this is everything in my life in front of me. What I do with this moment was going to determine what happened with the rest of my life. The Bible says, honor your father and mother, which is the first command with the promise that it would go well.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Didn't say honor your father if he honored you, or if he raised you, or if he was there for you. Says honor. And so in that moment, I called his mother, my grandmother, who was still alive then. I said, Grandma, I'm here with Dad, and he doesn't look good. If there's anything you want to say to him, you need to say it now. I put the phone to his ear, let them talk. And I told her I'd call her back. I grabbed his hand. And I told him, I love you, and I'm gonna make your name good in the earth. I said, I'm not mad anymore. I forgive you for not being there, for walking away from me and Mom. And...

• 23:19Speaker 01

  I'm so glad to have your name and that you told my mom to name me after you. And I sang some hymns uh over his bed, some church hymns, just, you know. There's not a friend like the lowly Jesus. No, not one, no, not one amazing grace. How sweet the sound. And as I'm singing, the nurses are gathering outside the room, they're listening to me. Doctors have stopped. I'm just pouring out twenty seven years of pain and love and forgiveness in one moment. My goodness.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  And when I left, I hugged him and I said, I know I won't see you again on this side. I prayed with him and I said, they tell me you can hear me, so if you can hear me, I want you to repeat this prayer with me. And I was like, pray with me, Lord Jesus, forgive me of my sins.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  And save me, just real, something real short, but I remember saying that with him and I don't know if he heard me, I don't know any of that. I just knew I had to do it for me. I needed to heal because I couldn't be held hostage to the pain of a father that wasn't there. And when I left that moment, I I said goodbye, got on a train, went back to Jersey. When I got to the New Brunswick train station, my phone rang, my mom said, your dad passed. He stayed alive long enough for me to get it right. I believe God kept him alive. The reason why I say my biggest challenge is daddy issues is because here I am at forty three years old and there's a father-sized hole in my heart

• 25:02Speaker 01

  that longs for him to be here to say, I'm proud of you. Uh, for him to still give me guidance. Man, I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to raising kids. I don't know how to be a husband. I didn't see any of that growing up. I don't know how to react and respond every time my wife, you know, has an issue and she's more emotional about things than I am. There's some real cold areas in here that I've identified. I can become very emotionless and very closed off. And that's not the way to build a healthy family life. These are the things people don't see. I don't preach for people. I preach for me. I'm preaching because I need to know that there's something and someone bigger than me.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  When I'm talking about Jesus, I'm not trying to force anybody to see life through my lens. I'm trying to see, I'm trying to let them see how I'm surviving. And so even though he's not here and it hasn't been here for seventeen years, I still yearn for the approval of a father. And so it drives me. I want to do well. I want to do right. And, and when I don't, I beat myself up.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  You know, every sermon, I don't even want to hear it again. Once I preach it, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to see it. Because I've already nitpicked what I could have done differently. Did I, did I, did I accurately represent the scripture right? Was Jesus seen? Because too many, that's the biggest thing for me. I don't think Jesus has been seen. Whether people choose to believe him as Savior, which that's my personal thing. But who he was as a man is someone worthy of our, our review. He loved broken people. He served poor people. He treated everybody equally. And he fought for those who couldn't fight for themselves. Those are lessons that can go across every corporation, every civic organization, every nonprofit.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  And so this is for me, uh, the big challenge in my life. Living a life, feeling like an orphan. And now the very thing I need is the thing I am. I needed dad, but now I'm a dad. I needed to see a good husband, but now I'm a husband. So I'm scrambling, trying to figure out how to put these pieces together. And I guess maybe all of that on the inside of me is why people hang around or want to hear what I have to say. Because I don't hide that. I don't think I've gone in as much detail as I have with you. But that's your gift. Because you're so kind and so open, you allow. Uh, for moments like this, real transparency.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  I'm surprised I've been able to hold my tears. I probably, I'm about two minutes away from the waterworks.

• 27:41Lewis Howes?

  I've been, I've been holding him back myself because we are more connected than you think. About 12 years ago, my dad was in a coma for three months, got in a really bad car accident. And it was my last year of, uh, of college. And it was during my football season and he never missed a game ever since high school. Like he would travel. I was in private school when I was, uh, in eighth grade. I went to a boarding school in St. Louis, Missouri. And he would fly midweek, drive out from Columbus to St. Louis. Seven hour drive every week. Basketball, football track, didn't matter. And when he got in his accident when I was 22. And I had to play the rest of the season with him in a coma. And then he, he woke up Thanksgiving Day.

• 28:21Lewis Howes?

  Which was, he was in New Zealand during the time. So I didn't get to see him at all for like three months until he came back after he woke up. It's been a challenging decade, 12 years now of him being alive, but him not being my father. He doesn't have the mental capacity to really understand. He has amnesia, so he forgets. So I don't have the relationship of a father anymore. And I s- you know, I only see him a couple of times a year and it's. There's just, it's not that connection or that, um. Mentorship or that, it's like I have to kind of teach him and you know, I had to take care of him, my siblings and I did, you know. Change his diaper when he got out and like teach him how to walk and talk and read and write and all those things.

• 29:04Lewis Howes?

  So for me, it was, uh, you know, it's similar that he's not here, but he's alive, but he's, he's, he's not, he doesn't really know what I'm doing. And so it's tough to be like so driven and not have that approval as well. Or to have him be like, you're doing a great job or, you know.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  I just wanted him to tell me that one time. I didn't play football. I played soccer, if you can believe it, many pounds ago. And I would look up in the stands in high school. He was never there. I knew he wouldn't be there, but I looked anyway. He told me he was gonna get me a car when I turned 16. He told me he was gonna come pick me up. I look out the window. I knew he wasn't even in the city.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  But there's something in the heart of a child that wants to connect to your origin.

• 29:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  It helps to give you definition. And, and so here I am at forty-three and I've got people asking me for advice about marriage and about family and I've got revelation on it, but practical application. It's like, yo, do y'all realize I want to disappear right now? I don't think people understand, you know, people ask me, how do you feel about the show and the book and you work at Lakewood, was this your dream? No, none of that was my dream. None of it was my dream. My dream was if I make it out of this neighborhood, get a good job, get a wife that loves me. I never thought I'd be a father. I never thought I'd have, you know, a wife.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  So the fact that I'm living things that I have no template for is very terrifying. Every day I wake up and there are many days that I want to run away.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  I wish I could be anonymous sometimes, bro. I wish I could go to a town where nobody knew me and be anonymous, go fishing in a creek, you know, or in a little pond and preach at a small church with no internet, no blogs and just love on people. I know that's not my calling. I believe I'm called to reach the world. I believe I'm somebody that's supposed to cry out and, and build bridges. But I sure do wish I could run and hide some days.

• 31:16Lewis Howes?

  Dave Chappelle did that.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, in Ohio.

• 31:19Lewis Howes?

  Ohio, man.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Come on, man. That's it, you know? And then when he got healthy and whole and healed, he came back. Now he's got two amazing, I haven't seen him yet.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  Great, yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  But I wanna, I'll definitely want to check him out, but the same creativity that it takes to write a song, it takes to write a sermon. But you can't. You can't sing a song you haven't lived. You can't write a sermon that you haven't lived. Got to experience it first. You gotta experience it. For it to be authentic, right? Exactly. So if you haven't gone through pain, if you haven't gone through process and trial, then you should probably sit down somewhere. Cause people don't need to hear, I'm perfect. Why aren't you? I don't need that. I need to know that you were broken. Show me where you failed. Show me your scars. You know, that's what the book was about. I am number eight. You know, King David, he wasn't a king all his life. He was the eighth son of a man who didn't even see his value.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  When the prophet came to look for a king, he wasn't even invited in the house. Seven sons were invited and the prophet said, none of these are the ones you have any more kids. He was like, well, I got another one. He's out in the field. No way. First Samuel sixteen, bro. And so Samuel calls for David and he comes in and he's anointed king as a teenager. And all of his brothers despised him. There's a lot of backstory to, to the reasons why. His father didn't see him, couldn't speak life to him. No one knew what he carried. He was invisible and hidden in plain sight. I'm sitting here learning about you when my, my buddy James, who, you know, handles all of the PR. A wonderful brother. He told me about your podcast.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  And I just did a brief, quick glance and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And just to see how God brought you, you know, from this place, Delaware, Ohio is not the hotbed. It's the smallest town. You know what I'm saying? And so for you to emerge from this small town and have such great influence is, is just what the book is about. Going from anonymous to necessary, from what's your name till we've been waiting on you. That's what the book is about, that you can be overlooked and undervalued, but you are not forgotten. God has not forgotten you. And so I think that, again, to, to go back, this is a long way around, but the greatest challenge in my life is reconciling the need for a father who's not coming.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  So how do you create that for yourself? I think that's where my faith came in. I think that's why it's, my faith is so important to me. The idea of a heavenly father, that there's something eternal.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  That these few years that I have on this earth will not be the end of my impact. I I have a son now, I have a daughter, so the microphone becomes a baton. And one day I'll pass it to them and I'll sit down and they'll put me in the ground. And hopefully I will have lived well enough that I left something better than what uh I had when I started. I had an amazing and still have an amazing mother. But I think the the power of legacy is for a father to speak identity. And to let his children know they have value and that they are protected at all times.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  And for me, um, I want my life to be defined by what I left in place for my kids and my grandkids.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  And I I I really honestly believe that that hunger for a father will never leave. I don't think it'll ever be filled because that tender place gives my gives me a heart for everybody else.

• 34:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  I understand tears, I understand people's longing. We're all broken somewhere and we're all looking to be filled or fulfilled somewhere. And that for me is uh probably the thing that'll always be there.

• 35:15Lewis Howes?

  Do you have any father figures or mentors in your life that support you from time to time? Obviously.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I do.

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  But you know.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  I do, they're they're, I do. Um, Dr. James Mormon is a phenomenal pastor out of Detroit. A lot of, nobody would necessarily know him, but the way he's lived his life, um, his willingness to be open about things he would, you know, lessons he's learned, things that have shaped him, the way he loves his family. Um, strong man. Dr. A R Bernard, brilliant man, academic brain, amazing theologian. But he's got a heart for people, he's connected, but he he's he's the type of man I want to be when I grow up. You know, these are the type of men uh that that I connect to.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  There are men who love their wives, love their children and who are establishing a legacy. And that's who I want to be. And TV is great. I'm grateful for the show. I'm grateful for the book. But those things won't last forever. And when it, when it's done, I can't let that be the defining moment of my manhood. It can't be the only part of my legacy. Because if that's the case, now um I'm allowing or yearning for the approval of people. Because the truth is, if the show, if people don't watch the show, the show won't be on the air.

• 36:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Um, and so I don't want that to be the thing, please like me. I need to like me. You know, because when this is over, I need to look myself in the mirror and say, I've done what I was created to do.

• 36:51Lewis Howes?

  Is there anything you don't like about yourself?

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Uh, I need to lose weight and I need to have more discipline in my physical body. It's, it's funny for a preacher to say, you need God to save your, you need Jesus to save your soul. And he can help you with anything and he can heal cancer and he walked on water. But you can't discipline yourself and you're a preacher to eat the right things. So I'm challenged in my own faith walk that gluttony is in that Bible too. You see what I'm saying? So I think for me, I need to.

• 37:28Lewis Howes?

  It's not Ohio life, man.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, it's midwest life.

• 37:31Lewis Howes?

  Change the habit.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Come on dude, it's corn on the cob, it's biscuits, it's mashed potatoes. You know, and.

• 37:36Lewis Howes?

  Donuts, oh.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Don't do it.

• 37:38Lewis Howes?

  Any sugar, I'm like.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Come on, bro. Heat the donuts for 12 seconds.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  Those Krispy Kreme off the.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  And not 2% low fat milk.

• 37:49Lewis Howes?

  The whole milk.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Whole milk, vitamin D, pasteurized, premium milk.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  You know, when I think about what I need to do, uh, that's the final frontier for me. Dealing with diabetes. I was diagnosed with diabetes some years ago. I never took it seriously.

• 38:07Lewis Howes?

  Like half of Ohio is, well, the Midwest, I feel like, right?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  All of, all of Ohio has diabetes. Um, get your insulin pens out, wave them in the air, wave them like you just don't care. But when I um.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  When I think about that part of my legacy, because my father died of complications from diabetes.

• 38:26Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Yes, that's what I didn't say. And so the sins of the father have come to visit the son. And do I really want my son yearning for a father figure who could have changed? Because diabetes, I remember praying about it. I was like, Lord, heal me. He was like, no.

• 38:45Lewis Howes?

  He stopped eating that much.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Right. I can't pray for God to heal you from diabetes and eat a pork chop. It doesn't work. Like, God, I know you're able.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  He's like, I am, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna over, I'm not gonna overturn your will. You need to change. Diabetes was an invitation to discipline. So now I've got trainers. And now I've got somebody helping me on the nutrition side and I'm eating more kale and red peppers and garlic. And gluten-free GMO bars with whatever.

• 39:19Lewis Howes?

  Dairy-free.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Right. They're even laughing because they just, it's like gluten-free in my house.

• 39:25Lewis Howes?

  She's a vegan.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Are you? Bless your heart. Ah, so nice, Christine. Anyway. So, and then my wife said, you need to eat turkey bacon. I was like, that's a lie. That doesn't even make sense. Is it, is it turkey or is it bacon? Did they put bacon sauce on the turkey meat? Just give me real bacon. But, yeah, man.

• 39:43Lewis Howes?

  So how long have you been working on this health crusade?

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Years.

• 39:49Lewis Howes?

  Like seriously working on it?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Oh, the last few months.

• 39:52Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, like when I open the refrigerator, there's alkalized water and there's supplements and, you know, all of that. So that's only been the last couple of months. And I'm down like twenty, twenty-two pounds.

• 40:06Lewis Howes?

  Great start.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  It's a great start for me.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  What's the goal?

• 40:09Speaker 01

  The goal.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  And by when?

• 40:10Speaker 01

  I wanna get down to about two forty.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  By when?

• 40:15Speaker 01

  By the time I die.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I wanna, I would say honestly, six months.

• 40:23Lewis Howes?

  Six months?

• 40:24Speaker 01

  I wanna get down.

• 40:25Lewis Howes?

  How much is that?

• 40:28Speaker 01

  It'll be a year. I think it'll be a year realistically.

• 40:31Lewis Howes?

  So what is it? What is the date today? May 7th? 8th, okay.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  So I'll come back in a year.

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna get your info and check in on you.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Alright, 5/8.

• 40:40Lewis Howes?

  And May 8th, 240. If you're not there by, if you're not that by then, what's at stake for you?

• 40:47Speaker 01

  If I'm not there by then, I'll come back here on the Greatness Podcast and I will donate,

• 40:58Speaker 01

  I'll donate $10,000 to the charity of your choice.

• 41:03Lewis Howes?

  10,000?

• 41:04Speaker 01

  10,000 is.

• 41:05Lewis Howes?

  Is that enough for you to really?

• 41:07Speaker 01

  20,000.

• 41:09Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  25. That's it.

• 41:12Lewis Howes?

  You sure?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  25.

• 41:13Lewis Howes?

  Is that enough?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  25,000 to the, to the.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  I already know where it's going.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Okay, 25,000. If I'm not at 240 a year from now.

• 41:23Lewis Howes?

  Not 241, not 240 in the house.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  240.

• 41:27Lewis Howes?

  240.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  240.

• 41:29Lewis Howes?

  It's gotta have a 24 and a 0.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  25 grand.

• 41:32Lewis Howes?

  25 grand, two donation.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  Yes, and if I make it to 240, I will give 25 grand to myself.

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  There you go. Exactly. Okay, you sure? Alright.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Oh man, we just shook hands.

• 41:46Lewis Howes?

  Alright, it's in. It's in stone. The publicist sees it. Everyone watching sees it. May 8th. I love that, man. Um, what do you think's available for you when you will reach that?

• 41:56Speaker 01

  I think I'll get to meet the rest of me. I think that this, uh, fat suit has hindered my ability to see myself as valuable. I know it's hindered my ability to love my wife properly because, uh, there's a scripture that says, "Love your neighbor as yourself." And people assume that Jesus was talking only about the people outside of your home, but my wife is my closest neighbor. And if I abuse and misuse my body.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Then if I'm not loving me, it's not possible for me to fully love her. And so to love the person closest to you starts with me. But I never saw myself as worthy of love. I never saw myself as attractive. I never saw myself as someone worthy of investment. I can't tell you why.

• 42:48Lewis Howes?

  Well, your father's never there. I mean. Story that a kid would say.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Right, and my mom, she's always telling me how amazing I am, and I'm like, of course a mom's gonna do that. You know, but. I think that there are areas of. I think. Learning, revelation.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  And the the truth is, I think my influence will increase because people are are very cosmetic. And if you have a particular. You know, look. They listen a little better. But if you look like Jabba the Hutt, then they're gonna probably tune you out. So I think for me, there's a lot at stake.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  But people don't tune you out. That's also could be like tempting for you. To be like, well, look how accepting I am. I've got eight thousand people here. I'm connecting to people in a certain way. So they are listening to me the way I am. Why change? I am getting results. Why change?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  And and the reason why I should change is because this is really not. Who I wanna be. I'm not happy with this. And I tell my wife that all the time, and she's like, well, no one can change it but you. So. Man, I appreciate this. Uh, conversation to be able to just dialogue with a brother about some of the things that I've been battling through. Because it's important for people to see humanity and divinity. You know, this whole, the show, the Book of John Gray, it's it's not about, look at this great preacher guy. It's about looking at normal people who believe in something supernatural. And we're super normal. And it's the intersection of faith and humanity.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  You know, and and I think that's why it's been able to resonate with audiences, and I hope it continues to.

• 44:33Lewis Howes?

  No, it has been. I watched the fir- I watched the first couple of episodes a few weeks ago, and it was, they're great, man.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Thank you, bro. This this next one, I'm a little nervous about, cause I talk about, uh, dealing with abuse when I was four years old. And that's where my father left.

• 44:47Lewis Howes?

  Emotional, sexual?

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Sexual. And a part of that anger was if you had been there. These men wouldn't have done that to me. And so I deal with that in this next episode. So it's like, you know, cause Oprah gets you to do stuff you would never normally do. So just being a network kinda opened me up to the, to, to the reality that, you know what, maybe there are other people that need to deal with some stuff that happened when they were little, then maybe this is an avenue.

• 45:16Lewis Howes?

  There's a lot of people. I mean, I was, you know, we're more in common than you think. I was sexually abused by a man that I didn't know when I was five, by the babysitter's son. And I, it took me 25 years to actually start talking about it. I opened up about four years ago about it for the first time. And I was so driven to prove people wrong. And to protect myself constantly. That's why I got into sports. That's why I was very aggressive when I felt like someone was attacking me.

• 45:41Lewis Howes?

  And I was always driven to achieve, to prove people wrong, to make myself better than them. And I always needed to be right. You know, I needed to win and I needed to be right to feel like I had worthiness. And I, uh, I opened up about this on my podcast three years ago about being sexually abused. I started telling my friends and family, but then I'm more and more people said, you should really talk about this on your podcast. And I was like against it. I was like, no way. I don't want the world to know this about me. But it was the most powerful episode I've ever done in terms of the results and the impact it made. The hundreds of emails from men and women who opened up and all the men saying, you know, I've had this secret my whole life. My wife doesn't even know. And you just gave permission for me to start the healing process.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:24Lewis Howes?

  So I think this is probably going to be one of the most important things you do do. One in six men have been sexually abused.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  I did not know that.

• 46:31Lewis Howes?

  One in six, onein6.org. It's got all the information and the research behind it. And there's not a platform for men specifically, masculine men to talk about this. And that's why I think it's really important that you have this platform that you're able to share openly and vulnerably because it's going to serve a lot of men who. Didn't even know that they're even allowed to talk about it.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:52Lewis Howes?

  How to process it, or you know, what's available on the other side.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, what are the resources? Because how do, how do you process that at four years old and five years old?

• 47:00Lewis Howes?

  You don't.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Because mine was a non-family member too.

• 47:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  You know, just you think about that and then, you know, again, the fear of being a father creeps up because my son is my age.

• 47:13Lewis Howes?

  And a daughter.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  And so now my wife's like, why are you so, because I'm really overprotective. And it's because of what I walked through and I don't want to live my life in fear. You know, and so we deal with that on the show. It's deep. My wife said, I didn't even know that, some things that came out and I didn't realize I hadn't told her. But the truth is it's hard to unearth and unpack that stuff.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  It's really hard.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Very, it's a very vulnerable place.

• 47:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you don't know where to start. You don't know who to start with. Yeah. What do you think, where do you think you'd be today if you had the greatest father in the world who was super healthy and always there for you? Uh, you, you know, achieved what you wanted in college. You finished, you were, you know, had all the things you wanted growing up. You weren't sexually abused.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  You had all this support and love. Where would you be right now at your age?

• 48:04Speaker 01

  I would be a very successful lawyer with a trophy wife and empty kids. Because I would have determined that my value was based in things. Every deficit, every place of failure, every empty chair made me who I am right now. Everything that I am is because of everything that was not. All of the empty places have given me the empathy, the compassion and the grace

• 48:47Speaker 01

  to be able to connect to people from different backgrounds and walks of life and find common ground and value. I absolutely believe that had I pursued my original vision for my life away from the calling that God placed on my life, I'd still be alive, but I'd be, uh...

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Far less empathetic, material driven. And I certainly would not have had the same level of impact.

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  I think brokenness is the prerequisite to greatness.

• 49:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  And I think we're supposed to give three truths that I slipped up and gave out one.

• 49:32Lewis Howes?

  No, that's all right. I'll come back to it.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  All right.

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, don't worry about it.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  But I just, I really believe that the life as currently lived is exactly what I needed to experience, to have it, because I don't know how my life will be defined. Will it be defined by one moment? Or will it be defined by the longevity of, you know, a sustained level of doing good things over a long period of time? I don't know how that's going to, you know, shake out. But if my life is defined by one moment, let it be that I was selfless in that moment and that I was sacrificial in that moment and that I extended grace in that moment.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Not that I made a ton of money and I'm hiding behind, you know, my accolades as an indicator of my inner value. I know right now, if nothing else happens, that I am loved, I am valued, and I have contributed to the betterment of other human beings.

• 50:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  I know that. I don't want to die right now because I want to raise my kids and walk my daughter down the aisle. But if I did, I would die knowing that with the little bit of resource and the natural gifts God gave me, I did my best to maximize them so other people could be blessed.

• 50:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:58Lewis Howes?

  Now, a lot of, a lot of people in your church and just off the street, I'm assuming, ask you a lot of questions. They come to you for advice. They want feedback. They want support on their, their challenge in their life, right? What is the question you wish all these people would be asking you? Is there one question that you think that would be the best for them? As opposed to all these like needs they have, but they should be really thinking about something else? If so, what would that be?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Hmm, that's good. Let me get some water on this. Can I get some water?

• 51:26Lewis Howes?

  Lubricating, you know?

• 51:30Speaker 01

  That's premium alkalized water there. Is this vegan water Christine?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  It's GMO gluten free.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  It's a question they should be asking. I think the first question that they should be asking is,

• 51:45Speaker 01

  am I loved? I think that's the foundational question. When you come to the revelation that who you are as you are, is okay, that you are loved, it changes the dynamic. Because a lot of religious thought is based around, you are broken, you need to be fixed. As opposed to, you are loved and there are things you need to know, so that you can unlock the potential of who you are. That's a different mindset. Because one is rooted in brokenness, which leads to shame, which leads to guilt, which leads to the reminders of all the things of yourself that you're not proud of. But the other one says, I start at love.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  I start at, I'm accepted. I start at, I am approved. I am a start, I start at, I am accepted in the beloved, as scripture says. And so I start from a position of, I am, right now, loved as I am. And I think people need to ask that question first, am I loved? Once they get the revelation that, yes, you are loved, then it says, oh, I can take the pressure off of trying to perform. Or I can take the pressure off of trying to figure out where I'm going next. Because I, in, in, again, we're talking about in Christian thought, for people who come to me as a pastor. And, and I'm, I'm localizing it to that, to the faith community,

• 53:12Speaker 01

  because there may be those who don't subscribe to faith, and that's okay. But for those who come to me, my first thing is, the first question you need to ask is, am I loved? And then, once you realize that you are, everything else changes. Once you know you're loved by an eternal God that created you, who sacrificed for you to live in abundant life, here's what happens, your value increases, your self-awareness increases, your strength to make the tough decisions increases. So you won't stay in a broken relationship forever, because you don't need to. I don't have to stay this big to prove something or to nurse my addictions or my broken areas. I don't need to. I'm loved. And does it happen overnight? No.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  But it is the question that I even have to wrestle with. Cause I told you, I struggle with daddy issues. Am I accepted? Am I approved? Am I loved? That's where I struggle. So I medicate that pain through food. I medicate that pain. Feels good, man. It does. I could eat donuts all day. That's the second donut reference, bro. You have any vegan gluten free donuts around here? We got some vegan bars or something. Come on, man. I'll take one. But I think that's the first question. And then the second one is, what's my purpose? What am I here for? There's so many people struggling with what life is. Like, what am I supposed to be doing?

• 54:38Speaker 01

  There are people who get a degree in a certain field and then they end up not wanting to work in that field. How, well, I don't know what the percentages are, but so many people change their major midstream. Why? Cause you're still developing. People are searching for purpose at this point. Because we realize that the accumulation of things doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What's your purpose? My purpose is to be a bridge, to let people know that they are loved by God. That what Jesus did is not localized to a single group of individuals who think they have the market on faith and religion, but that God loved the world that he gave his son.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  And this is the life that I've chosen to live, to extend grace to every human being. Every human being has equal value. Every human being has the right to self determination. Every human being has autonomy. And in that, you love, you celebrate, you cover, you extend grace, you forgive, you fight for those who can't fight for themselves. And I think my purpose is not talking about it, it's living it. Yeah. And I've had to learn how to do that. I've had to learn how to connect uh, with those who may not see life through my lens. I've had to learn how to see other perspectives. That's what life is. And I've learned.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  How much God loves other people by looking at how much love he's extended to me. Cause I know me and I know the areas where I failed.

• 56:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  And in myself, in my own humanity, I don't deserve to hold a microphone. Uh, but I've been gifted and I humbly say that I've been gifted to share that. And it keeps you humble. It keeps you real low to the ground.

• 56:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  You can always tell somebody who's close to God by the way they treat people they don't think they need.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  When you're around somebody who can talk down to people and think they're better than people. And they say they're an individual of faith, you know that they haven't matured. You know that it's a, it's a lie. Cause when you've encountered God, you love everybody. You have grace for everybody because you know what he had grace for you in.

• 56:59Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  And I think that for me is my purpose, that you are loved, you are accepted. And that what Jesus did finished it and. But also make it fun. Life doesn't have to be deep, man. I like to laugh and then.

• 57:14Lewis Howes?

  That's why you're so effective on stage and when you preach because you're. Bringing humor, you're bringing, you know, not just like this serious darkness all the time. It's like you have to be a certain way. It's like. We can have fun and play and be joyful and expressive because that's what life's all about.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  That's what life's all about.

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  And it brings a lightheartedness to things. Obviously there's moments for being serious and being, you know, in tune to the moment. But I think we're here to play. You know, I believe that we're here to play and have fun and be childlike until we're dead.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:44Lewis Howes?

  And express that childlike, you know, experience. That's what brings creativity, joy, passion. Uh, you know, it's what brings people together, I think. So.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 57:53Lewis Howes?

  I'm glad you're doing it, man. Uh, a few, few final questions for you. One is what are you most grateful for in your life recently?

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Uh, it's gonna sound really cheesy and religious. But I am, I'm grateful for

• 58:13Speaker 01

  the revelation that the validation I need doesn't exist outside my home. I'm grateful for my family. Here's why. I was in Cape Town, South Africa, a week and a half ago. I'm sitting, looking at whales in the ocean from my balcony. Pretty sweet. And it was unbelievable. I'm looking at Lion's Head Mountain, Table Mountain is behind me. The Twelve Apostle Peaks are behind me. The most beautiful natural scenery I've ever seen. And I was as lonely as I've ever been in my life. Week and a half ago. A week and a half ago. Because my wife was in LA and my children were in Texas.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  And I said, I don't wanna experience these things without my family anymore. This is a stunning revelation for me because I was thirty seven when I got married. So I know how to be alone. Yeah. I didn't have success in relationships. Relationships were my blind spot. And so I didn't, I don't know how to stay. I know how to leave. And so, four hundred thousand miles I flew last year. Ooh. Three hundred and fifty the year before, while still being full time at Lakewood. Wow. You're a machine. Uh, I guess, or I'm, or, or I was running from something. So then I realized

• 59:36Speaker 01

  I wanna be home. Now, I'm preaching at one of the biggest conferences in the world. And it was a wonderful experience. But it was, there was a part of it that was hollow. Because the people that mattered the most weren't there. Yeah. And that's when I knew I was growing up. Because in the early parts of my marriage, I would get on a plane, wouldn't think twice, didn't care, didn't know that it had an emotional impact on my wife, that I would leave. Didn't know that sometimes she'd be afraid to be in the house by herself. Then we had our son about a year and four months into the marriage. And so now I'm traveling full time and she's in this big old house with a little baby. And she's nervous because people have been breaking in around the neighborhood. And I'm like, you're gonna be fine.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  That's very dismissive of her emotions and of a baby. So over time now, what didn't matter now absolutely matters. And so I told my wife, I'll never be gone that long again without y'all. That's a huge awakening for a man that lived isolated and emotionally disconnected. And I think a part of me wanted to keep distance uh from my wife and kids, just in case I failed.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  Just in case I fail. Ah, just in case I mess up like my dad did, don't get too close to me. So that way it won't be as hard.

• 1:01:01Lewis Howes?

  Painful, yeah.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Now it's like, y'all get close to me, cause I am gonna fail, but we're gonna stay together.

• 1:01:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  You know, so that that that to me has been the biggest thing, that my family means more to me than opportunity.

• 1:01:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow, um, the uh, the book is called?

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  I am number eight.

• 1:01:19Lewis Howes?

  I am number eight, you can get it anywhere online, Barnes and Noble, all that good stuff, right?

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 1:01:24Lewis Howes?

  And what's your website?

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Uh, johngrayworld.com.

• 1:01:27Lewis Howes?

  Johngrayworld.com, G R A Y, correct? Um, and you got all your books and everything there, I'm assuming as well, right?

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  This is my first book.

• 1:01:35Lewis Howes?

  First one, first of many.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Thank you, I I received that one, buddy. And I've got other resources of me preaching on there, I think links to music, cause I sing too.

• 1:01:45Lewis Howes?

  You're amazing, this guy's unbelievable, if you wanna hear him sing Whitney Houston sometime.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  I'm finishing my record up tomorrow.

• 1:01:50Lewis Howes?

  Shut up, here in LA?

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Lewis Howes?

  Dude, I gotta hear it.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm gonna give you a pre-release copy.

• 1:01:55Lewis Howes?

  I would have been, I'm I'm not lying, I've seen a lot of speakers, you're one of the the best entertainers that can land a message. Who's funny and can sing and can dance and do it all.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Thank you, bro.

• 1:02:05Lewis Howes?

  And rap and poems and you know, like preach, I was like just blown away, man, I'm I'm really.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Thank you, man.

• 1:02:12Lewis Howes?

  I was like, I gotta get you on sometime, so I'm glad we got you on now.

• 1:02:18Lewis Howes?

  Imagine for 60 seconds that this microphone is connected to every person in the world. And you've got 60 seconds. They all put on headphones. And it's only one direct line from them and it's to you. And you've got 60 seconds to share a message. That they will all hear right now. It'll be translated in their language. They'll understand it if they're two years old, they're a baby, whatever. They're all gonna understand what you say. And you'll only get the opportunity to say it to them once.

• 1:02:50Lewis Howes?

  What would you say?

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Your life is not accidental. You were created on purpose, with purpose. Every painful place. Every broken moment.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Every closed door. Every opportunity that looks like it missed. Every person that ever hurt, abused, misused you. Were actually allowed into your space. To give you a heart of compassion, love, humility and grace for those around you. You have a purpose greater than your pain and you have a future greater than your past. God created you in love and you are loved by he who made you. And your life and your legacy will outlast your years on this earth.

• 1:03:40Lewis Howes?

  Drop the mic. I like it.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  There it is.

• 1:03:43Lewis Howes?

  I would ask your three truths, but I think you covered a lot of the good stuff in there. Uh, so, uh, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, John, for your incredible openness. Your love, all that you give to the world, your ability to be aware of everything that you get to work on. And not act like you're holier than thou with everyone. And your commitment to constantly making an impact. On the world, but also on the most important people, which is yourself and your family. So I think you're an incredible example of how we should all be living.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Thank you for that, man.

• 1:04:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, one year from today, I'm gonna hold you to it.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  One year.

• 1:04:20Lewis Howes?

  I think that's, that's one of the missing elements, right?

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  One year. Krispy Kreme party on me.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  I will have a box of Krispy Kreme's with you.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  After the weigh-in.

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  After the weigh-in. That'll be your one cheat.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Two thirty-nine point nine.

• 1:04:34Lewis Howes?

  Final question, and again, make sure you guys watch the show on Oprah on OWN, um, which depending on when this comes out, you'll be able to watch the replays on, online, or you'll be able to search for it. Get the book, JohnGrayWorld.com as well. Uh, the final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Hmm. My definition of greatness is extending yourself to others so that they can

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  become everything they were created to be. My greatness won't be defined by my achievements, but by the achievements of those who came into contact with me.

• 1:05:13Lewis Howes?

  John Gray. Ohio love, baby.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  Ohio love.

• 1:05:17Lewis Howes?

  Ohio love.

• 1:05:23Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:05:27Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this one with Pastor John Gray and the face of the Oprah Winfrey Network's new show, The Book of John Gray. Make sure to go watch the show. It's pretty powerful. I've watched a few of them so far. Really love what he's up to. And check out his new book, I Am Number Eight. So excited about what he's up to. Make sure to follow him on Instagram and Twitter and all those places online. Tag me on Instagram, at Lewis Howes. Share this message out over there on Twitter and Facebook. It's LewisHowes.com/488. Again, LewisHowes.com/488. Share it out with your friends if you felt this would inspire

• 1:06:07Lewis Howes?

  them, or give them some lessons, or teachings to help them unlock their inner greatness. You're gonna get a 20% off discount on your underwear. You'll be donating to an amazing cause. Go there right now. I'm telling you, they're the best pair of underwear I've ever had. MeUndies.com/GreatnessNow.

• 1:06:26Lewis Howes?

  I love you guys so much. We are on a mission to impact and inspire 100 million people. To show them how to live a fuller life, doing what they love, making a full-time income, and making an impact on the people around them. And you're a part of this process. It's all started with one episode about four and a half years ago. We're almost getting close to 500 episodes, guys. I can't even believe it, how far we've come together and where we're heading together. Make sure to continue to share these out with your friends if you find them helpful and inspiring in any way, as that's what continues to build the movement. Over 2 million downloads a month right now. It continues to grow, all because of you.

• 1:07:10Lewis Howes?

  We've got some big people coming up, big topics. So pumped. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.