476 Read Minds and Amaze People with the Mentalist Oz Pearlman

"The best form of creativity is a deadline." - Oz Pearlman If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/476 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 476 with the Mentalist Oz Pearlman.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  I am so excited about this episode because I've been waiting for someone like Oz to get on the podcast, to share with me their secrets. Now, I love magic. I love deception and sleight of hand and setting up something in one area and then switching it and really revealing something in another area. I love storytelling and I feel like magicians or mentalists, they have this art, this craft of really telling a story, setting things up the right way, connecting to your heart and your emotions and really putting you on a journey to create magic in real life. And I love it.

• 1:16Lewis Howes?

  I love whenever I'm around magicians or mentalists because it's always so fascinating for me. So I wanted to bring in Oz to talk about how he does it. And if you don't know who he is, he's a world-class entertainer and one of the busiest mentalists in the country. His client list reads like a who's who's of the biggest politicians, biggest professional athletes, A-list celebrities and Fortune 500 companies. And in 2015, he was featured on TV's number one rated show, America's Got Talent. And week after week, he captivated the country with never-before-seen mentalism routines and became quickly a fan favorite.

• 1:51Lewis Howes?

  And in this episode, we talk about why people don't like being tricked, but they do love to be amazed and how to differentiate both of those in your work. Also, his best sales strategies and tactics to get consistently booked for great events, why your mess-ups.

• 2:10Lewis Howes?

  Are where the gold is in life. How deadlines support our creativity. The craziest tricks Oz has pulled off. Even when things went wrong on live TV. And so much more. I'm fascinated by. All the stuff that you're about to learn. So. Get ready to dive in and be fascinated as well. And I want to give a shout out to our review of the week. I love the headline. It says, love. They make LA traffic tolerable. Uh, this is by Nikki Kraus, who says, I am so happy. I jumped on the podcast bandwagon. This one is my absolute favorite. Love the variety of guests on the show and the five minute Friday quickie dose of inspiration is awesome. Thank you so much. So Nikki Kraus, thank you for being a dedicated listener and for your review this week.

• 2:54Lewis Howes?

  Because you are the review of the week. And if you haven't left a review yet. And you want to be considered as a review of the week, then go to iTunes.com slash greatness. And leave your review right now. All right, guys, you can share this out with your friends right now. Tag me on Instagram stories and let me know you're listening. LewisHowes.com slash four seven six. And without further ado, let me introduce to you the mentalist Oz Pearlman.

• 3:20Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We have Oz Pearlman in the house.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Thank you. You too. Thanks, Lewis. I'm doing great.

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  Very excited about this. Now you grew up, well, you were born in Israel.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:31Lewis Howes?

  Grew up in. That state up north.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:34Lewis Howes?

  Call from Ohio.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Oh, Buckeye fan. Just got, I'm out of here. Drop the mic.

• 3:39Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, Wolverine here.

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  Grew up in Michigan. You went to Michigan.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  I went to Michigan.

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  And you, I heard that you paid your way through, uh, school. Through magic.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 3:48Lewis Howes?

  Mentalism, right?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Uh, so I wasn't really a mentalist then. So it's kind of. Mentalism, it's very unusual. It's a subset of magic. People ask me, are you a psychic, a fortune teller? No. What I do is based on principles that can be learned and taught. But there's an innate talent. I think it's very similar to musicians. I am tone deaf. You could have me sing for the next 10 years, have the best person train me. I'm not going to be a professional singer. The same applies to mentalism. Some people just. They don't have the knack, the intuition. But if you have it and you can work on it and spend years, it, you'll get better.

• 4:19Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I love it. So anyone could be a mentalist.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  I.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  If you have the knack.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Believe that. Yeah, I really think anybody could start.

• 4:25Lewis Howes?

  At some level.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 4:27Lewis Howes?

  Got it. Got it. Okay.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  But yeah, that's what I did. I did magic tricks throughout. High school throughout. I just started middle school and then in college, actually I graduated high school at 16. Very young.

• 4:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  And I was, so to speak, independent. My parents moved back to Israel. And that was it. They're like, pay for college, figure out what you're gonna do. That's, I didn't live with them anymore, so I got my hustle going. I had a couple of businesses on the side and I did magic at restaurants.

• 4:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow. There's another guy from Israel, he still lives there, I believe, who's a mentalist, who I met one time and he blew my mind.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Lior.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  I'm reading your mind, of course.

• 4:57Lewis Howes?

  This guy, oh, how many other guys out there?

• 4:59Speaker 01

  There's not that many.

• 5:00Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Blew my mind.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 5:02Lewis Howes?

  I saw him on a, at an event like five years ago at a thing called Summit Series. And he was unbelievable in person.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Crazy stuff.

• 5:10Lewis Howes?

  Even just his performance style, just his like charisma, everything. I was just like, you're so, I've been watching how good he is. I'm like, the trick is fine, you know?

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:18Lewis Howes?

  Trick is mind blowing, but just his energy and his like, the way he can move people and just, oh my God, it was powerful. And then he actually, I remember I, during my book launch, uh, about a year ago, a year and a half ago, I was going on Good Day New York and he happened to be there and I go, this is awesome.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  It's meant to be.

• 5:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so I was like, awesome, I wanna see what he does.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:38Lewis Howes?

  And he goes to me like before in the backstage or whatever, before he goes, okay, think of like, uh, two numbers, right?

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:43Lewis Howes?

  Think of a sports game that you played in, two, not the score, two numbers of the score, two double digit numbers. And then literally he just came out and says it like at the end and I'm like, how is this even possible? Not just like simple stuff like that. I don't know how he does it.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  The most simple and the most direct is what hits the hardest.

• 5:58Lewis Howes?

  He was like, this was your number, let me write it down. And I was like, what? It is crazy. So, uh, this stuff is always fascinating me. There's another guy that I really like, Steve Cohen.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:08Lewis Howes?

  Who does.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  He had a show at the Waldorf Astoria until they sold that hotel.

• 6:11Lewis Howes?

  And I went to it like four or five times.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 6:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And I taught, I, I brought a group of entrepreneurs to the show one night. I have this mastermind years ago and I brought a group of entrepreneurs there. And afterwards he stuck around and did like a Q and A with us to talk about persuasion and psychology and, you know, performance, things like that. And I thought it was fascinating. So this is something that's like.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  He's a very suave, elegant operator. He's a great guy.

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  Elegant, like high class magic, right?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Victorian. I mean, the show was so, such an experience, you know what I mean?

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  He did the think a drink.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's his signature.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's crazy. So anyways, I've always been fascinated with this, like I think most people are.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  You and me both.

• 6:46Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  And I think it's cool that you got into this, I heard from a cruise ship, is that right?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  I did.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  You saw magic on a cruise ship.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  So we went on a cruise ship. I had a bar mitzvah where it was like a party with me and 10 people. Very, you know, very humble. And then the gift, which we'd never been on a cruise. We didn't really do a lot of vacations. I didn't grow up that well off. And we got the whole family. My grandma came in, everybody went. We went on a cruise ship for like five days to Bermuda and I'd never seen a magician before. And I, when I say obsessed, my dad got me to go on stage with him and I, we did this trick and I came home. I got every book at the library, went and bought every book at Borders, got like 40, 50 bucks together, bought them Really? back to cover, front and back, over and over. For the next five years, you couldn't find me anywhere without a deck of cards. Really? I had waterproof cards in the shower. I kid you not. It was, it was next level intensity. Now, do you do cardistry as well?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  So I am a magician. I mean, I'm known for being a mentalist now, but most mentalists started as magicians. Got it. Cause the same principles you use with magic, for example, let's say, I look over here, misdirection. People will look, when you put something in one hand, you want to make it disappear. The way you kind of manipulate people's attention, instead of using props with mentalism, you start losing the props. You just start getting into people's head and learning how they think. Wow. Yeah. How do you get to learn how people think? Practice, practice, practice. Books, videos, other guys. So for example, like Lior and I. When Lior's on a TV show and I'm on a TV show, I've got a few other people that we know like all over the world. I've got a good friend in England, good friend in Australia, good friend in Argentina.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  And there's a network of us that I would say are kind of the guys who are doing most of the big media appearances. Right. And that's who we spitball ideas off. If we come up with stuff, yeah. Say, how would we do this? I want to get 250 people in a room to all think of the same thing, something Lior recently did, which is crazy. Did he do that on a TV show? He did, indeed. I predicted the winner of the Super Bowl three weeks before it happened. I said exactly what would happen. I said the Patriots would win at the end of the game on national TV. No way. Can't even tell you how many people bet on it afterwards. And I predicted who's going to win March Madness two weeks ago. We're going to go on next week and see how I did. Both of my teams are still in play for the record. Both of my teams are still in play. You predicted two people? I didn't tell you, I did not predict the whole bracket. I told them there's no way I could do that.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  But when the Sweet 16 was announced, I gave them a letter and said, keep this under lock and key. We read it out loud of which two teams would get there and the score at the end. You had to, you had to deconstruct it. It's a riddle and next Friday, we're going to reveal it. And I can tell you right now, I'm still in play.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  Did you get the score right for the uh the Super Bowl?

• 9:17Speaker 01

  So I didn't, oh no, the score of the Super Bowl, I just knew, I told you who would win and that the Patriots would win at the end and I said, you'll see.

• 9:23Lewis Howes?

  That is crazy.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  And then on Twitter, people kept writing me the whole time, be like, you jerk, you lost me all this money. And before that game ended, I go, never doubt me. And uh it blew up, man. It went crazy. It was great. It was great.

• 9:36Lewis Howes?

  So who did you say for the NCAA?

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Oh, you gotta watch. I can't.

• 9:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you didn't say it on, you didn't say it on TV?

• 9:42Speaker 01

  I said it, but you had to figure it out. It's a riddle. It explains what years people won in. It was a riddle that you could deconstruct.

• 9:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna reveal it when I go on air and you'll see it's right there. Can't be missed.

• 9:53Lewis Howes?

  I saw, I saw uh Jay Williams.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:56Lewis Howes?

  Posted a video on TV recently and that's when I was like, I gotta get this guy on.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  It was serendipitous. That was so much fun. Those guys are so great on Mike and Mike.

• 10:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes. And I predicted Gonzaga. I don't know if that's your, your, your team or not, but.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  I don't wanna say, but let's just say you're looking very good on that.

• 10:11Lewis Howes?

  Okay, there you go. Yeah. But uh everything else has been kinda busted, but that was my.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 10:16Lewis Howes?

  Um, this is fascinating, man. And when did you start to, so first you started to, as a magician, learn about misdirection, right?

• 10:23Speaker 01

  I love card tricks. I love card tricks, coin tricks. I loved the, the facet of fooling other people and fooling myself. The beauty of magic is you can sit at home, you can practice endless hours. It's just, it's, I liked, wrote repetition. I liked something that I could perfect, a craft that I could endlessly do. And, and the satisfaction of entertaining an audience. Kinda when you're an awkward teenager, I learned this 13. You know, magic before girls is what, and then I discovered girls like magic. I go, oh my God, I'm sad.

• 10:50Lewis Howes?

  You were sad.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  So I just love the feeling, not of fooling people, because if you create this dynamic where I'm smarter than you, I fooled you, then people don't like that. More impressive is engaging someone in a mystery. You don't really get a sense of wonder anymore. We're glued to our phones, we're glued to the TV. What do you experience day to day? Just kind of things happening? You don't really get that moment that you did when you were a kid, when you see something for the first time. Right? That wonder. So that's what I try to instill in people when I'm doing the show. I want that feeling of, even if you know. I don't say that I'm psychic or a fortune teller, but when you see some of the things I do. And like when you reference my friendly or like when you see some of those things, it just makes you for a moment go, wow, how? And you don't get that feeling very often anymore.

• 11:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we have everything at our fingertips. We always have the answer. We always have, you know.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Everything has a solution and and very few few times are there things that you can just take, I wouldn't call it on faith, but that really expand your mind that go, how? You know, can you do that? And you go, you can't, but you did. And it's it's just that feeling creates a memory that people really remember, especially when you do an emotional hook. So on a card trick, a card trick's great, but it doesn't, you know, come close to the heart versus when I tell someone, think of someone that you care about deeply. And then I tell them who they are, what their birthdays, all these things about them. That really sticks with you. Yeah.

• 12:08Lewis Howes?

  Can we start with a card trick?

• 12:09Speaker 01

  A card trick. Do you have some cards? I I do not have cards.

• 12:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay, no worries. I'm curious if you can, if you can demonstrate something about misdirection. If you can do something small or simple with me right now, we can demonstrate.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Well, misdirection, I mean, is more magic based.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  Got it, got it.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  But let's, let's, let's switch gears to you.

• 12:25Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  And how many podcasts have you done at this point? What's the number?

• 12:29Lewis Howes?

  Four sixty, four sixty four.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Humble brag, no big deal over here. What? So you've gotten a chance to meet probably some of your idols. I mean, people that you, before you started this, couldn't even dream to have met. I'm guessing. I mean, I've, I've had the same experience where it's amazing to meet people that you looked up to, idolized, just really to pick their brain.

• 12:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  I walked in here earlier today and I immediately shook your hand and then you asked me questions. You said, what would I ask you? I said, what were some of your most moving interviews? And I told you, think of someone, because I I've met Tony Robbins, incredible, incredible person. And I said, think of someone you haven't interviewed, but you would absolutely love

• 13:09Speaker 01

  to meet and pick their brain and think about them. And immediately you thought of somebody on the spot, but then I said, don't do someone obvious because you've probably spoken about them on the podcast, correct? So you changed gears. I'm guessing you changed your mind several times before you finally said, this is the person I'm going to go with. Am I correct?

• 13:25Lewis Howes?

  Correct.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Now, it's really important that they know. You didn't whisper this to somebody. You didn't write this. You didn't put this anywhere other than somewhere that you would find it in your own mind, correct? Like right now, there is no way that I could dissect this other than getting inside your head.

• 13:37Lewis Howes?

  Correct.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Here's what I want to do. We talked about misdirection. No misdirection. You're going to answer questions for me.

• 13:43Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  But purely in your mind.

• 13:45Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  So I'm going to ask you, is it a guy or is it a girl? I don't want you to say anything. I just want you to think the word yes when I get to the question. Now, try not to say anything. Think. Is this a guy? Think, is this a girl? So you didn't do much, but you were very clear cut in what you did. You looked this way. It's a guy. Tell me the truth. Am I correct?

• 14:03Lewis Howes?

  Correct.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  That was easy. Also, if it was a woman, you'd have been a lot more excited.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Would have scratched that healthy stubble. Next up, think of what world this person resides in. I know you incredibly accomplished athlete. I think that would have been too obvious for you. Don't say, but think if this person's an athlete. Okay, good reaction. Think if this person, um, what could we do? Is somebody personal growth, someone kind of inspirational, along the lines inspirational. No, okay, no. Think if this person, movie star, think music. Think, um, what other worlds could we do that I think you would be into? Uh, um, keep, keep thinking, keep thinking. Um, athlete, politician, comedian, rock star, um,

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Alive, dead. This person's alive. This person's in comedy. Something about the hair. He looks like me. Are you thinking of Jerry Seinfeld?

• 14:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Louis is freaking out. Everybody else in the room is about to walk out of here. They're like, stay out of my head.

• 14:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's good. It's good, man.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  So I've got your tells. If you want, we're gonna play poker right after this. Let's get some money together. Let's, let's got you down to the wire.

• 15:05Lewis Howes?

  Perfect, perfect. It's great, man.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 15:07Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. Now, the question you always get is how'd you do it, right?

• 15:11Speaker 01

  How'd you do it, right? That part's not as good for my job security.

• 15:13Lewis Howes?

  It's all good. It's all good. I love it, man. This stuff is fascinating to me. And, um, you did some other tricks with, or you should do some other, I guess, setups for potential.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Well, I just told people, yeah, to think of some stuff.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Really challenging stuff.

• 15:24Lewis Howes?

  So we're gonna have them come in later.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 15:26Lewis Howes?

  And, um, and see if you can guess certain things that they had.

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  Now, what made you want to, now, I heard you were in the corporate world.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  I was.

• 15:35Lewis Howes?

  You were on Wall Street.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  So I went to school and it's very funny. Certain people, I've met people that are so focused. Like I met this one guy, he's 18 years old recently, knows exactly what he wants to do. He's been doing magic since he was five. He's going to school and studying like media and communications. All these things are gonna help him. I was not that. I had no idea that this is what I was gonna do for a living, honestly. I went to school, was very good at math. I was somehow, even as a child, almost prodigy level at math. It just came easy. Yeah, I got a perfect score on the SAT when I was 12 at math.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Kinda, just it came.

• 16:07Lewis Howes?

  I was the opposite.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  When I was 25, I got the worst score in the SAT.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  But English and all these other subjects were so, so, but math, I can't explain it. It wasn't like a showing off thing. I just got it. Do you understand what I mean? And it wasn't even I had to work for it. I just clicked in my mind. Like Rain Man. A little bit, a little bit of that. And so, um, I went to school. I started computer engineering. Didn't get into programming, but the closest thing to that was electrical engineering. My sister, uh, worked in New York. She's eight years old and she's like, get a job in tech. You're gonna make money. I just, I didn't know what to do. So I got, you know, a degree in electrical engineering, went to work on Wall Street, got a, a pretty great job at Merrill Lynch. And the whole time I was there, I kept doing this on the side and it wasn't. Really? You know, normally now when I tell people, create goals, quantifiable goals, people that wanna become a professional performer

• 16:53Speaker 01

  and, and start making those goals happen. Put them down on paper, make them a reality. For me, it's so weird because I just had that hustle in me because this is how I paid for stuff. Yeah. When I was a teenager, when I did this. So when I went to a restaurant, you better believe I would find the manager and say, hey, let me show you something cool. Do something for her or him. Then get, uh, you know, some of the waiters over, start blowing people's mind. And then I had my sales pitch to be like, do you have any entertainment here? And I go, this is a great spot. And they go, oh, no, we don't do that. And I go, how about this? You guys enjoyed it. Why don't I come on a slow night for you Tuesday? No money. Don't pay me a dime. Right. And if every single person that walks out of this restaurant doesn't tell you how great of a time they had, how they're gonna bring more people and they're gonna come back, get rid of me. No harm, no foul, no hard feelings. How do you say no to that sales pitch? Yeah, free.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Exactly. Free, where I'm gonna make you look like a star. And I would just, I don't even call it balls of steel. That's just, that was my hustle. I could do that anywhere. And I would, I would make it so the people couldn't say no. I would figure out in my mind, in a sales call. I consider myself a salesperson, more an entertainer. Where are my stumbling blocks, my roadblocks? What is gonna say, oh, I have to ask the boss. So right away, I take the, I go, you don't have to pay me. Why do you have to ask anyone? You're gonna look like a star if this works. And if it doesn't, no awkward feelings. I leave. You don't have to, everything about it, take away barriers to entry. So I was doing this on the side and I kept getting more and more shows. And it got to the point where, um, I was doing so many on the side that I said, what if I take a leap of faith? And finally, the moment came, I did a show for the CFO of my company.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Had no idea who I was. The event planners in my company booked me for it.

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:24Speaker 01

  And I did a trick for him where I made $1 bills turn into hundreds. And this guy's Australian. He starts laughing. He goes, we gotta get you working here for us. And everyone laughs, all these senior guys. And I go, I do work here for you. And they think I'm joking around. I go, I work in your global technology services department. And the guy looks around like befuddled and he goes, what the hell you doing working here, mate? And right there, boom, in my mind, I was like, the second biggest guy at the company just said to me, what are you doing here? And it kind of like flipped a switch. And I go, what am I doing working here? And I said, what's the worst case scenario if I leave now? I've got some savings. I'm not going to starve. Hopefully I can make it a few months. I'll give myself a year to see how it goes. And the first year was definitely a bit more lean.

• 19:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Cause you need to be hungry. If I had something cushy right off the bat, I don't think I would have gone out there and hustled. And like every day, like give myself tasks, meet people, go to event planners, get things going. Cause nobody's going to make it happen for you, especially in entertainment and most businesses. If you're not out there doing it, there is no magic moment where you see this one agent, he sees you and goes, I'm going to make you a star. That doesn't happen. It's like 10 years to become that overnight success.

• 19:28Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And when did you leave? How many years ago was that?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Can you believe this? It's April of 2005. It's going to be 12 years. It's like shocking to me to believe it, but that's when I left.

• 19:37Lewis Howes?

  You've been hustling for a long time.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  I have.

• 19:39Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. And in 2015, a couple of years ago, you were on America's Got Talent.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  That was the, that was the rocket engine. I gotta say, that's the big one.

• 19:46Lewis Howes?

  So you were just kind of hustling and you'd book a corporate gig or a local gig? And then you would just say, hey, bring me back in six months or bring me back next year or just keep trying to get clients essentially?

• 19:56Speaker 01

  I've never advertised. I've never bought an advertisement ever. Honestly, my way of doing it was at first restaurants, where I would go to high-end corporate restaurants with corporate expense accounts. So the people there are movers and shakers.

• 20:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Steakhouse, Italian restaurants, just places where I know you've got movers and shakers, people that are going to make decisions.

• 20:14Lewis Howes?

  Those people could book you for their.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Exactly. Somebody with disposable income. And from the beginning, my look, my brand, which I know is a cliche word, was meant to be corporate. Like I wanted to be in suit and tie. I wanted to be the guy who spoke the corporate lingo and knows that when you bring me in, the most important thing for you is looking like a star.

• 20:34Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Because if you. You know, put your name on the line to have me at a corporate event and I say something off color. If I embarrass people, if I make people feel uncomfortable, that's your butt. So my whole goal was benefits oriented. I'm going to make you look like a star. This is going to be an event everybody there comes and talks about and comes up to you and say, where did you find this guy? I want to make you look good. Forget about talking up myself. That's what my promo does for me. I want to make the person I'm working for just absolutely shine and be as low maintenance and easy to work with as possible. And that that's been my MO from day one.

• 21:06Lewis Howes?

  You remind me of my brother. He's a jazz violinist.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:08Lewis Howes?

  He's the number one jazz violinist in the world.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 21:10Lewis Howes?

  He started. He went to high end Italian restaurants and would just play on like a Sunday brunch or whatever. And hustle and just say, hey, I'll do it for free. Just pay me tips, you know? And then he would start to get paid. And then he would start to get bigger events and it kind of grew from there. But it was all him selling. It wasn't like someone was pitching him.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 21:28Lewis Howes?

  No agent doing anything. Fascinating, man. And um, so what did you start making kind of early on? What was like a gig? Like after your first couple of years?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Money wise?

• 21:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, first couple of years out of corporate life and you're doing this was just like a couple hundred bucks? It's a couple thousand bucks? It's kind of like?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  I mean, it would vary in the early days. I mean, four, 500 bucks.

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  And then, and then slowly it ramps up.

• 21:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  So I think that a tough part when you're your own business. So when you're the sole proprietor of a business, most people devalue themselves, right? So it's a funny thing where if you're doing something you love, to even get 500 bucks to go do something for an hour and a half, sounds to me in my mind, like a lot of money.

• 22:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Like I've never really advanced. I have a, there's a restaurant I used to order delivery from. It's called Signor Pollo. This is a ridiculous story, but that's where I would order 16 dollars a meal. I could eat that for two days. And in my mind, the way I related wealth was if I just made 500 bucks, that's 30 meals from this restaurant. Like that's, I'm still that guy. No, I could have 20 million in the bank. There's still some part of me that always goes back to like, that's, I could eat that many times. And so when you are doing a show and you're getting paid what's incredible money for doing something you already love to do? Then at a certain point, it becomes difficult to start saying, well, I should be charging more. Right? Because you're still stuck in that mode of I'm lucky to be getting what I'm getting. And so you seem to hold yourself back. And I think for a few years, I was my own worst enemy.

• 22:51Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure.

• 22:53Lewis Howes?

  Charging like 500 or 1,000.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, just not being where I should be based on the market and based on my experience and starting to.

• 22:59Lewis Howes?

  And based on the value of bringing people.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:01Lewis Howes?

  Probably blowing people's minds and they're like, this is incredible. We got to steal for this, you know?

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think that happened for a while. And even at certain points to this day, if I didn't have kind of representation, that was a big shift that happened to get a manager and agent to kind of take myself out of the negotiating process. Is um, I'm a people pleaser. So if I've had a client for five years and they've booked me over and over, I go, ah, you know, I'll do it for, for whatever. And that's at some point that becomes a mistake because people do take advantage and you have to.

• 23:28Lewis Howes?

  If you're traveling and you're gone all the time, it's like.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:30Lewis Howes?

  You've got a kid, you've got a wife.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  I do have a kid. Yeah, exactly. And a wife and yup.

• 23:35Lewis Howes?

  Crazy. Um, so it was essentially 10 years until you got America's Got Talent, right?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 23:41Lewis Howes?

  10 years you got to America's Got Talent, but you were doing big shows locally, kind of in the region in New York.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  And flying around here and there.

• 23:47Lewis Howes?

  Here and there, but mostly in the, in the Northeast, it sounds like, right?

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 23:51Lewis Howes?

  From these restaurants and the corporate life that you'd, you'd meet people at. And what made you decide then you were going to go on America's Got Talent? Cause they've been around for many years.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:59Lewis Howes?

  Why that year? Or had you tried to get on before?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  I had tried to get on before.

• 24:03Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  So a lot of people, that's the funniest thing is they'll ask you, well, you got lucky or the timing. I go, no, I tried to get on three years earlier.

• 24:09Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 24:10Speaker 01

  And didn't get on, didn't even make the first round.

• 24:12Lewis Howes?

  Were you not as good then?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  So I think it's twofold. One, luck and timing are everything in life. I mean, you have to make your luck to some degree, but timing is a big part of it. So in that one, I got more of a red carpet rollout. I had a producer call. I had been on Jimmy Fallon. And uh, somebody had seen me and they go, let's bring him on. And when I came on, I was doing a mentalism trick. But I walked into a room that was empty. So imagine right now, if I walked into this room with just a camera person. And they go, do your thing. And I go, I'm a mind reader. I gotta read somebody's mind.

• 24:38Lewis Howes?

  People need to be here.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't. So it's kind of like a comedian doing a joke to an empty room where no one laughs. So they bring somebody in. And it was just a page that wasn't paying attention. And I did it. And even during the middle, he was taking calls and it was just flustered. And it was just. Completely fell flat. Aw, man. But honestly, I think it was a mixed blessing. Blessing in disguise. I think that those three years, during those three years was the busiest of my life in terms of I was probably doing four restaurants a week, doing four or five shows a weekend. I was, you know, hustling up the 10,000 hours and then some. I did about 200 to 265 events every one of those years. And that's where you learn. When you mess up, that's when I learn the most. When I do a show and something bombs, or I mess something up, that's the sweet spot.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  If I kill it and get two standing ovations, yes, that's good for my ego, but you don't learn anything from that. So those shows and learning how to approach people, like restaurants are so great because you're walking up to somebody, you're invading their space. Right? Who is this person? What do you do? What do you want from me? All of those ways to kind of learn how to ingratiate yourself to somebody and take away those barriers. What do they think when I walk up to them? Is he crazy? Does he want my money? What is he gonna do? Is he gonna keep doing this? Will he leave? I know every single question you're gonna think, and I know the moment you think it, and I know how to diffuse that tension. That's my, that's- And address it right away. Right away, in 30 seconds. I'm not here to take any of your money, I just wanna, you know, whatever it is. In subtle ways, exactly that, where you mentioned,

• 26:01Speaker 01

  "You're so lucky tonight, I'm coming over, the host brought me in for a little bit of fun," and you leave it mysterious, there's so many little Yes. tacit implications to what I do, like very subtle things. Yeah. But, uh, long story short, I wanted to try out again, cuz I, my wife watches the show here and there, and then I have a few friends that are massive Howard Stern fans. Really? My, one of my best buddy's brother was like, "You gotta go on, Howard's gonna love you." And every year, something went wrong. One year, the thing was during the Super Bowl, and I went to the Super Bowl every year for seven years for a show. Next year, it was 14 degrees outside, and there was a line wrapped like three blocks around, I'm like, "I'm not waiting in this." And, uh, finally, the year I did it, I did, um, an open casting call, which is you go into a, like a airport hangar

• 26:45Speaker 01

  with about 8,000 people. No way. You wait all day, I was there for 10 hours. Walk into a room, you know, eight people, very much like, no red carpet, just go in there, no ego, do your thing. And went in there, full confidence, like, I'm, I got this. And, you know.

• 27:03Lewis Howes?

  Blew their minds.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Blew their minds.

• 27:05Lewis Howes?

  Ten hour wait.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Ten hours, man, all day.

• 27:07Lewis Howes?

  Were you thinking, were you nervous? Were you thinking about what you were gonna do?

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Honestly, no.

• 27:10Lewis Howes?

  You were just like, I already know what I'm gonna do.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  You know when you feel the best is when you don't care.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  There's some power to not caring. It's, it's almost as if, I would say it's almost like being the ultimate wingman. When you walk into the bar and you're already taken, it's almost like it's easier, yeah, because you don't have that hint of desperation. I just talk freely, I feel good about it. And so it's exactly that. When you don't want things, they tend to fall into your court. So in this case, I thought, I thought, I'm not gonna get on the show, nothing's gonna happen, let's go have fun, screw it, let's do it. And went in there, like I own the place.

• 27:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  I mean, the jokes I made, I go, we could stop, I did a crazy trick for them and I go, we're done, right? You just give me the million bucks, the show's over, I got this. And they just loved the jokey manner.

• 27:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  And, and it worked out. And every round was just more pressure. It built me up as a performer. Cause you've got to come up with something new and better each round.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  And you know that, how many eyeballs? It was the biggest show on TV. I think the finale we did, it was about 13 million people watching. And it's live. And you can't mess up.

• 28:07Lewis Howes?

  You got third, right?

• 28:08Speaker 01

  I got third.

• 28:08Lewis Howes?

  How did you not win?

• 28:09Speaker 01

  So.

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  I remember watching some of these episodes and I was like, how's this guy doing this? He did like a whole like cut out of Oprah's face.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  I did, yeah. Howard Stern thought of Oprah and I cut her out, yeah. That's one of my signatures. So the same way you mentioned like, different people, the, the drink thing for Steve Cohen.

• 28:23Lewis Howes?

  That's your signature.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Somebody thinks of a celebrity and I cut out a silhouette of their face is like, I'm known for that for the last 10 years. I, I didn't, it's a very old, everything's reinvented in our craft.

• 28:32Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  But this is something from the 1920s, that I kind of dug up and started doing that nobody was doing. And I reinvented it and changed it. It used to be a big stage production. Now I just do it right in front of your face, up close and personal. I did it last night where I had everyone in the audience think of someone.

• 28:47Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Every, just like you thought Jerry Seinfeld, everybody, and I started telling every single person. And then the last guy, I took out a piece of paper, I cut out a picture of Donald Trump for him.

• 28:54Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 28:57Lewis Howes?

  Do you still have it? You gave it to him.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I gave it to him. I gave him a magnet to put on the fridge. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a trip and they were freaking out, man.

• 29:04Lewis Howes?

  This is crazy. So.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Half the people loved him and the other half were like, you like Donald Trump? I mean, it was very.

• 29:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's funny. So when you're going through the rounds, how many shows was it?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Six.

• 29:15Lewis Howes?

  Final. Six shows. You had to come up with six different performances?

• 29:18Speaker 01

  It's almost like the final four, man. It's almost like a March Madness. And you need to stagger them where you don't wanna, you don't wanna.

• 29:24Lewis Howes?

  Do what your best until the end.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Exactly. You put your, like, one group was, they thought they were gonna win the whole thing. I honestly believe their second act, there was this dance group that was so amazing in their second act, that they could have won the whole show with that act.

• 29:35Lewis Howes?

  They blew it.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Exactly right. They went too big. You go here, you go here, and then you go down to here.

• 29:40Lewis Howes?

  How are you gonna top that?

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Exactly. You need that element of going bigger every round and stepping it up.

• 29:45Lewis Howes?

  Now, did you know all six performances?

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Absolutely not. Oh, my goodness, no.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  So you came up with them on the fly every week?

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Uh, so much of it because you did, yeah. And it's very difficult because for what I do, so much of it. Like later on, you're gonna bring in Sarah, who I, I walked in, how long did I meet Sarah when I walked in?

• 30:05Lewis Howes?

  10 seconds.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so for a stranger, when I do my show, so much of what is built into it is making sure that the people chosen are at random.

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  I did a show in Washington DC a few days ago for 5,000 people. We throw frisbees out in the crowd, like little crappy frisbees that everyone catches so you know, there's just no way you could know. And they all stand up and I read every one of their minds when they think of stuff. So when you're watching that, you know it's not fake. So the problem with the America's Got Talent is you have four judges who are each superstars, Heidi Klum. So I can't tell them stuff about them, your daughter's name. I could go on Wikipedia for that. So you have to create very unique things that people know weren't staged or set up. You gotta do things where they're in the moment, they're live, they're real, and you know, you can see the randomness. Like, for example, my last thing was something where I had them all sit on chairs.

• 30:51Lewis Howes?

  Yes, so they picked the colors.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, everyone pick envelopes and change envelopes and change chairs and it's just like a cluster. I won't swear, a cluster, a mess, yeah. And then they all open up their envelopes and they all have colors.

• 31:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  And then we have these, like, pulleys attached and they stand up from their chairs and you pull off and the red one, somebody's sitting in a red chair and this one and this one and at the end, I had one with my thing. And I say to them, swear on somebody's life that we didn't set this up. Swear. And one person swears on their dog and one person swears on their kid and one person swears on their mom. And they turn the sheet around and the names of everyone they swore on were on the back. So you know that they didn't fake it.

• 31:29Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  But you have to, like, come up with crazy stuff like that. It's tough. And a lot of the time, you come up with it in, like, a week. You have the highs and the lows. You make it through, you get a vote and you're in.

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  Now what?

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Exactly. And while you're on the high, the producer comes up to you and goes backstage and like, hey, by the way, uh, we need something even better in five days. Tell us tomorrow what it is. And you're like, ah, your stomach is in knots.

• 31:50Lewis Howes?

  So are you talking to, like, your mastermind of, you know, mentalists and saying, hey, I need to come up with something. What is this?

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Exactly right. And it's just-

• 31:57Lewis Howes?

  What's gonna blow people's mind, but not too big, you know?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  It's, I can't tell you, the best form of creativity for me personally is a deadline, is pressure. If you tell me, you need to do something crazy in two days for this TV show, nothing gets me driven more than that. And where do I do it? I'll go run. I mean, I'll, I'll go run 20 miles. Right now, I'll listen to maybe a podcast, but if I need the zone, zone out. I just go running and I look like a crazy person. I'm talking while I'm running and I'm figuring, I'm like, yes, that would be crazy. And what if this person does that? And I just, like, I don't know how, but the, that's when the inspiration strikes. The shower and while I run.

• 32:31Lewis Howes?

  Running and working out. For me, I get in the zone. I have my best ideas when I'm running, too. I always come back and I'm like, talk to my team. I'm like, okay, we're doing this now, you know?

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:39Lewis Howes?

  Everything I want to do comes from running. Um, and you're an ultra marathoner.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  I am.

• 32:43Lewis Howes?

  You've done, like, every long distance racer is from Badwater to what else?

• 32:48Speaker 01

  I, I did one called Spartathlon, which was my toughest one ever. It's in Greece. Um, I wonder if your buddy Rich has done it. So the, the story goes, did you ever see the movie Three? With Gerard Butler, like where they're super badass. Exactly. So in that story, they show this guy when the Spartans, the three hundred of them, you know, the Persians and they fight them. They sent a foot messenger from Athens to Sparta. And the story goes that in thirty six hours, he ran there and alerted the Persians and that's how they stopped them at Thermopylae. Like if that guy wouldn't have done that run. We wouldn't have civilization. So the Greeks, they, it's unlike any race in the world ever. Everyone gets involved.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  As you're running, people are honking their horns. Hundred fifty three miles. When you get into the town, all the kids, the local kids ride their bikes next to you for the last mile.

• 33:35Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  You get to the finish, everyone's in togas. You kneel at the statue of King Leonidas, you kiss his foot and they give you water that was brought up from this river. It's the, it's, and then the town, they do a, like a full parade for you. The mayor comes, twenty thousand people. It's nuts. It's so epic. That anyone who does it once has to do it again. So I did it the first time and crash and burn, man. Crash and burned. Couldn't, didn't finish it. I didn't know what I was in for.

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  How many miles is it?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  It's a hundred fifty three miles and the challenge is it's in thirty six hours.

• 34:06Lewis Howes?

  Oh, no.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  So if you do the math, you have to be running the whole time. In a lot of these races, you can have a lull, you can have a, a train wreck, walk, you can sleep a little. This is a day and a half where if you're not running the whole time, you're out. And you need to be running fast and.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  This person ran a hundred and fifty something miles?

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Who did?

• 34:24Lewis Howes?

  This the messenger?

• 34:25Speaker 01

  That's what they say. In flip flops. No Gatorade or Nikes back then.

• 34:28Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't a marathon, it was a hundred and.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Oh, this is six marathons in a row.

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  In thirty six hours.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 34:34Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, I did it the second time we came back. It was me and a buddy. Um, and man, it was, it was, it was the hardest thing I've ever done. It was nuts.

• 34:44Lewis Howes?

  And you finished it?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Finished it in thirty three hours and change.

• 34:48Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh, dude. How many people race?

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Uh, so that year was the hottest year in. The record of them doing is about 95 degrees and it was 90% humidity and there's nothing, there's no ice or anything. So you're just, uh, it was a 19% finisher rate. So one out of five finished.

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  How many went?

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Uh, it's, I think they allow like three, they, they cap it. I think it's about 350.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  And I think like 68 or 67 of us finished.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 35:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  And it's all mental.

• 35:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  So the, the part about that race that's so amazing is the night when I folded, the first time I did it, when I got to like 78 miles and I just, I couldn't do it. I dropped out. I saw people come after me and I'm talking like, a guy that's 62, a woman that's 58. All of those people are objectively in such worse shape than I was then. I mean, there's no, there is no comparison. I am so much faster. I have better endurance. I have, you know, I'm younger than them. And they finished. And the next day I slept a full night, went out there and you're emotional watching these people that gutted it out. Because at that level, it's all your mind. It's all mental toughness and telling yourself, I am not going to stop. I will die on this course before I make it to that finish. And you need that mental fortitude and I didn't have it that year. And then the next year when I, when I came back,

• 35:57Speaker 01

  there was body bag or finish line. Like that was it. Yeah. You gotta, I don't know how to explain it. Like you need to know you're going to finish.

• 36:04Lewis Howes?

  How did you feel afterwards?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  I was a wreck.

• 36:07Lewis Howes?

  For like two weeks, you probably like tried to recover, right?

• 36:10Speaker 01

  I was just, I mean, I, I, I don't want to spare you the details, but chafing and, uh,

• 36:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh man.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  lost toenails and you know, it's just, uh, it's, it's a wreck.

• 36:18Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Pain is temporary, glory is forever.

• 36:21Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  That's how I think about it. Any pain that I'm going to get, it will go away. But that moment, that crossing the finish line, kissing the foot of that statue,

• 36:28Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  That will be with me till the day I die. Yeah.

• 36:30Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh. That's amazing, man. Did someone finish with you or are you the only one?

• 36:34Speaker 01

  This is my buddy. His name's Michael Arnstein. He's known as the fruitarian. He like only eats fruits and vegetables.

• 36:39Lewis Howes?

  You crossed at the same time or did you?

• 36:40Speaker 01

  So this is very funny. We did the whole race together. At a certain point, I, I fell asleep. I passed out during the race. We, to make it fun, at 93 miles, they put a mountain in the middle from 93 to 100 miles, straight up a mountain. And you know at certain parts you're like crawling, it's like bam. And so I had to sleep. And when I say sleep, this isn't, you know, the four seasons. This is me getting on the road rocks and saying to somebody, wake me up in five minutes, like the aid aid station person. Yeah. Cause I just couldn't move anymore. And he kept going and I caught a second wind and people that do ultras learn this, like a marathon is is one thing. But in ultra, you have ups, you have downs, and it really tempers your you in life. Like I think of life as an ultra.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  I think of like things that I go through. I get in arguments with people. I go, I gotta get through these. Like I try not to sweat the petty stuff. Because I know things are gonna suck, but they will get better. And that's like a mindset. You really, I've learned it from running a hundred miles because it's never gonna be fun the whole time. If if it's fun the whole time, something's wrong with you. There's gonna be parts where you sit there and you think just like people would that are, I'm crazy. Like what am I doing here? I could be sitting, drinking a beer, watching TV. What the hell am I doing on the side of this mountain in the middle of the night? And when you get to the finish, it all becomes worth it. So, um, yeah, man, it was.

• 37:57Lewis Howes?

  Did you get a medal or anything else? Or is it more like?

• 37:59Speaker 01

  You get some trophy, but I've got those in like a box in storage. Like I put some of them up that really meaningful, but the the real thing that that it's it's the accomplishment. Yeah.

• 38:09Lewis Howes?

  Cause how many people have done that?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Uh, not many people have done it and it takes a special breed of psycho to wanna do it, to be honest.

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, man. Now, how do you train your mind to be that mentally tough? Personally?

• 38:21Speaker 01

  I really wonder. I think that the harder I train, the more easy the race is later. And also just the, um, I gotta just wrap up that story. I just gotta tell you about us finishing together. We finished together, arm in arm.

• 38:35Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, with USA. And we were two of three USA guys that finished, cause the year before, nobody finished from the USA.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  So it was really emotional, but then we stopped us and they give you like some time at the statue. Cause for a lot of people, there's there's people that try this thing for years and don't finish. Years will come back, but year after year. So I walked up to the statue first, which is funny because there's a mat that's a timing mat. And he walked up like eight seconds after me. We finished together, but I always bust his balls now that I'm like, oh, I beat you. I beat you by eight seconds. Cause just cause I walked over. But, um, I will train for these races by, I will just go, there's a mountain nearest, um, in New York City called Bear Mountain. It's about 60 miles north. I'll go out there with a cooler, with Gatorade, with gels by myself. And I'll just run up and down that mountain for eight or nine hours straight. Just, just like that. Listening to podcasts usually. Wow. I listen, I remember once with yours with Tim Ferriss.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  And then I listened to this one, Dan Carlin Hardcore History. I listened to like six or seven hours of Genghis Khan, just going up and down a mountain. Wow. And you know, there's other nutcases. There's people mostly cyclists. And they'll be cycling for five hours and they'll keep seeing you and be like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm training to run a hundred. And they're like, I don't even want to bike a hundred. That's crazy, man. Wow. What gets you, why do you keep wanting to do that? I don't know. When I got out of school, I, I was a swimmer in high school. I was never a very good athlete. I was not a runner. That's the weirdest part. I hated running. I did one season of cross country. I merely did it not to be too crude, because all the chicks were really cute in cross country. And one of my buddies was dating one. So I'm like, let's do it. Let's, let's see what I can, you know? And I was the worst on the team, the worst. Later on, when my cross country coach found out that I've won all these marathons.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  He wait, he goes, O's? How many O's? It can't be the same one. And I got out of school. And I started kind of not really being in shape anymore and just going to work and drinking and just, I don't know, like I, I. I didn't have something to look forward to. Now, this is a very first world problem. I really want to put this in perspective. I'm making good money. I have a roof over my head. I have, I have, you know, everything is comfortable, but I didn't want comfort. Like I needed something. That's going to challenge me, something that I see a date in my calendar that I can circle and say, I have to do this. You know, because if you don't push yourself, nobody else will. And so that's what I did. I did a marathon. My sister did a marathon. She's eight years older than me. She's not really like an athlete, so I couldn't believe she was doing a marathon. I go, this is nuts.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  And it was sibling rivalry. I'm going to do a marathon too. And my first one was miserable, awful, brutal. I was like crying for two miles. I was walking. Yeah. And I said, I can do better than that. And that's when I got hooked. And I'm, I'm an addictive personality. So the same thing with magic, when I got into it, when I got into running, obsessed. I'm going to get to the bottom of this. I'm gonna. Be the best I can possibly be at it. I'm going to be very competitive. I like to win. And I don't know, that's, I just, I don't really do stuff halfway. I kind of get fully into it. Yeah, I think that's the only way you can be great. Yeah. If you're all in.

• 41:30Lewis Howes?

  Now, in your mind, who's the greatest magician and the greatest mentalist besides yourself?

• 41:36Speaker 01

  I'm not the greatest, but I appreciate that of all time.

• 41:39Lewis Howes?

  Or right now, you know, who would you look at as a magician who you're like, that person is unbelievable and mentalist?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  So it's like stepping on the shoulders of giants. Like you could say people that right now I admire, but it's kind of like in music, like Chuck Berry just passed away. And he created everything else, like everybody, the Rolling Stones, you look at the Beatles, like he's the guy that started things. So, you know, without them, you can't make it. So like you look at a Houdini. Houdini just changed the playing field of what we do. He was the first person who mastered the publicity stunt of just really exploiting the public's attention. So I've always loved, just amazing. And also a lot of appeal, like he was a rabbi's son in Appleton, Wisconsin. I lived in Wisconsin, you're there, just crazy. David Blaine, epic, epic, crazy.

• 42:20Lewis Howes?

  I want to interview this guy so bad.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  You should, incredible. And so like just, these are people that redefine a genre. And there's so few and far between that anyone that can do that, that can redefine something, right? Completely change what it is.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  Catch a bullet in his mouth and hold his breath for like 20 minutes or something, raise his water, whatever he did.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  I was in, I was in an Uber two days ago. I was right here, right by you at the Beverly Hilton. This guy picks me up and he sees me, I have this like silver briefcase that I bring my show in and it's very attention grabbing. He's like, what are you, man? What are you? And I go, I'm a mentalist. Yeah, a hitman. And he's like, what's a mentalist? I'm like, it's like a magician, but just for your mind. He goes, I love David Blaine. And he believes, he explained to me that David Blaine is not from this planet, that he's not from this dimension. It was so funny hearing this guy talk about, he's like, you don't understand. He goes, you probably just do tricks. And I'm like, yeah. He goes, David Blaine doesn't do tricks. He's tapped into another dimension. And, and here's the thing.

• 43:11Lewis Howes?

  In a sense, he is.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna talk.

• 43:13Lewis Howes?

  And so are you.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess, but.

• 43:15Lewis Howes?

  Than most people, you know?

• 43:16Speaker 01

  I love hearing that, right? I love hearing that, that that's what he was able to make someone think and convey. And that is so epic. And so to me, that's just a trip. So, long story short, those are two of the biggest, you gotta talk about David Copperfield.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Huge. There's more inside people that I would know that you wouldn't know that are kind of like pioneers, like people that are behind the scenes, they're inventors, they're creators. There's a guy named Paul Harris. That's brilliant. Just one of the most brilliant minds ever in our art. And when I was starting, when I was like 14, 15, I got all his books and I just like, it had such an impact on me and I've met him since. He's, he's incredible. He worked with David Blaine on a few of his specials. The best mentalist in the world, hands down, is a guy named Darren Brown.

• 43:59Lewis Howes?

  Who's the guy from London?

• 44:00Speaker 01

  He's from London.

• 44:01Lewis Howes?

  This guy is unbelievable. He had a show for a while, right?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  He's had so many shows.

• 44:04Lewis Howes?

  I've been obsessed with his show. Years ago, I'd watch him on iTunes and I was like, this guy's amazing.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  So Darren Brown, again, just is the one who redefined what we did. So whereas it used to be more of a little creepy, a little, um, I don't know, there were different undertones. He just made it such a classy art form. And just the public latched on to him and he created all these things in England, uh, like Channel Four and, and on, and theater shows that were so unique and interesting. And he's actually performing in New York soon. I'm giving him a plug and I already bought front row seats and I cannot wait. I've never met him. I don't know the exact start date. I'm going to see it end of April.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  But it's a limited run and it's you've, I mean, I have friends that are flying in to New York just to see it. Cause it's such a one of a once in a lifetime.

• 44:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:51Lewis Howes?

  That's incredible. Yeah. He is a fascinating guy and he's like, he can like pickpocket and do all sorts of stuff. He's like,

• 44:57Speaker 01

  He's into hypnosis. He just, he, he's more than just a mentalist.

• 45:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  He's all about the mind and just all the facets and explain to you how it works. It's almost like brain games on steroids with an element of fooling you.

• 45:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  So, I mean, he should use that. I'm going to call and be like trademark that. That's your new, uh, marketing spiel.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Yeah. David Blaine is amazing though too. I mean, that guy's just like a freak. And when I talk about another dimension, like you guys think different than most people think.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Well, we reverse engineer. So my work as an engineer, I don't, I could barely screw in a light bulb. My, my wife makes fun of me. But the way that I think, the way that we like, the way that I dissect my routines is I first think of the effect. So I think, what do I want you to think happened? Right? Here's what would be really cool to me. So it'd be really cool to me if I could tell you to think of anyone, but I'm influencing where you're going to go with that person before you even know it. And I'm going to tell you that person's name and I'm a,

• 45:47Lewis Howes?

  Don't make it an athlete. That's too obvious. Don't make it this. Oh, so okay. Narrow it down.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Psychology 101. It's the same way that a salesperson, if they're very pushy, the used car salesman says, you get this car, get this car. Your guard is up. But if you walk into a place and they kind of talk to you and they go, you know what? This might not be right for you. I'm going to, I think maybe your business is better elsewhere. You're intrigued. This guy doesn't want my money? What do you mean? That's how you hook people in. There's so many little, Facets.

• 46:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  There's interesting thing, Pickup Artist, did you ever see that book by, uh, by?

• 46:17Lewis Howes?

  Neil Strauss.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, Neil Strauss, The Game.

• 46:19Lewis Howes?

  He's a good friend of mine.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  So, a lot of those guys start as magicians and a lot of what they talk about is very applicable to what I do, literally, but not for picking up, you know, picking up like girls or anything. It's knowing how people think in their decision making, knowing how social dynamics work, how people think when they're one at a time or versus in a group dynamic. And I, you know, I work on that all the time. That's so much of my show is knowing how I'm gonna affect and influence somebody when they're amongst others. When somebody is with their peers, colleagues, or whether they're with their boss. All of those things play in when I do a show.

• 46:53Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Huge.

• 46:55Lewis Howes?

  So, when you see someone, when you go into a room or a restaurant and you're thinking like, when you see someone, do you think like, what's the trick or I mean, what's the, the thing I want to do? Not the trick, but the, you know?

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Jason Bourne, you know Jason Bourne, the first movie? One of my favorite scenes ever is when they bring him into the restaurant and he tells you everything right now. Boom, I know what that guy's wearing, I know what that license plate is, I know that. That no BS is exactly what I've trained my mind to do.

• 47:19Lewis Howes?

  In every room?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  If I walk into most rooms, like I had a show last night for 85 people in San Antonio, Texas, I knew every single person's name in that room, every single person's first name.

• 47:29Lewis Howes?

  How?

• 47:30Speaker 01

  That, that's memory work. So, I've worked on memory.

• 47:32Lewis Howes?

  So, you, you, you met every person?

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Well, during the cocktail hour, I walk around, I say hello, I-

• 47:36Lewis Howes?

  You met everyone, yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Even if I don't meet them, they have name tags. I know, I'm gonna know everything about them. I knew who worked for the host company, I know who didn't. I know who's superior to who, and I've got the social dynamics on this. This guy's got a wedding band, you know, I can see that it's scuffed. I know this guy's been married probably 15, 20 years. I, everything like that is fodder for the show.

• 47:55Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Additional stuff, you're just like, wow, this guy's good.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  That is the show.

• 47:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  So, when you hear about cold reading and stuff that a lot of psychics and mediums do, I'm not here to tell you what's real and not real. I just know that so much of what I see a lot of psychics do, I could do exactly the same and I could do it with no supernatural abilities. I can do it based on the here, the now, my five senses and what I'm able to deduce.

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  Asking a couple of questions and yeah, just being aware.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Leading questions, knowing where people's motivations are. I know that they want to hear a certain thing, so I'm gonna bring them in that direction. It's kind of like if I knew one thing about you. Let's say, Louis, I learned one thing about you. Let's say I knew exactly that you were gonna think about your brother, who's, you know, a world-known jazz violinist, number one in the world. What I might do is mention my siblings and go into that and then have a facet where I ask somebody else in here to think of their sibling. And then I wait that moment and I kind of put the hook in. And I know that I've just said it where you're gonna go, "Well, what does my brother do?" And I know that information. Everything I've done is craft a scenario that's gonna set in motion you asking me the question that I know the answer to.

• 48:57Lewis Howes?

  Everything you do is setting up what you already know.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Uh, not always, but I try to do multiple different, so I have, that would be, if I did that more than once, you would instantly catch on.

• 49:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  So what I do is I mix methods. In my show, I teach you how I did one thing slightly, and then I do the same thing in a totally different way, and you go, "What the F?" So, that's the fun of it. If I did a show and you didn't understand anything, you would get very bored and you'd get exasperated and annoyed with me. I like to spread breadcrumbs. The whole show, I teach you little things, takeaways, and that's why you have fun.

• 49:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. So you're teaching people what you're doing as you're doing it?

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely, like elements of it.

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  You're not trying to like hide the magic of it?

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Oh, no. I, I will show people how to detect lies during the show. And, and so I'll, I'll do things, body language reads. I'm not teaching you to be a mentalist, but I'm giving away a little bit of the craft while I go, because that's what hooks you in. You go, "Wow." And so as it gets, every phase gets a little more impressive, and then you do something even crazier. You go, "Well, if he did that, how did he do that one?" It just makes it more fun. You need to build.

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. Um, does mental disson have to do more with emotional intelligence or observing people's behavior?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  So it has to do with both in the same way that a hypnotist, if you say to me, "I don't want to be hypnotized." "I don't want to be hypnotized. I'm not gonna be hypnotized." Then at the end of the day, you won't be hypnotized. Does that make sense? The power of suggestion. So... But a hypnotist, a very talented, good one, can diffuse that person's underlying tension, or why are they so nervous, or what are they scared of, or what's the problem? So, in, in most scenarios, I try to get to the root of, will this person be good to work with or not? And when I'm doing a big show, I can quickly avoid people that I just don't think are gonna be fun. Because some people, if, let's say, I walk up to you and you just had a really rough day, or you got really bad news. And I don't want that. I don't ever want to bring up, my show is not ever gonna bring you bad news.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's a fun show. It's interactive. So I'll kind of shy away from that. But... To answer the question, I think that it's more about observing people than the emotional intelligence. Cause certain people, I just can't read well. There's no way around it. Yeah. Like so, I can do certain things with them, but we won't get to the next level with them. It's just that simple. There's no way around it. And then they'll come up to me to show and be like, well, why didn't you do something more with me? And I'm like, I'm sorry, I couldn't. And then they're like, oh, yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. It was a bit more opaque than others.

• 51:13Lewis Howes?

  So what's the perfect person to work with? Or who do you see? What's the type of person you see? You're like, yes, that's going to be a good person to work with.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  It runs the gamut of the extremes. So the people that are most believing and most into it are always the most fun. And also the ones that are at the opposite end that are the most skeptical. Cause nothing's better than having somebody, yeah, arms crossed, body language like this. And I seek them out in the show. I have a lot of funny bits that are just literally finding that person that that's going to say, there's no way you're going to know this. And that's the best moment ever when you get that right. Cause that's when you get the explosive reactions on stage, on TV. And the ones like the David Blaine things where you just know in today's day and age where everything can be faked. Everything can be reshot, but authenticity can't be faked. Like when you see someone's real reaction, you know, it's not actors. You know, you just can't fake it.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  It's very difficult to fake surprise and being blown away. People can notice when it's when it's off, you know?

• 52:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  They can.

• 52:11Lewis Howes?

  Is there ever a, what do you call it? If you don't, you don't call it a trick, but you call it something else?

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Trick, routine, effect, whatever you want.

• 52:17Lewis Howes?

  Is there ever?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  I don't mind trick. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm tricking you, but my goal isn't the trick.

• 52:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  If you figure out how I did it, some of the time it's more impressive than actually not knowing.

• 52:29Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 52:29Speaker 01

  There's certain things I do where when you know, if you actually figure it out, somebody will walk up to me and goes, you couldn't have possibly done this and this. I go, that's exactly what I did. He goes, there's no way. He goes, that's insane. So it's some of the things are even more impressive. Once you figure them out because they seem so ballsy. They go, you just did that in front of thousands of people? Like that could have gone wrong. What if, what if? And I go, that's exactly, that's the rush.

• 52:47Lewis Howes?

  Have you ever done a big performance where everything's gone wrong?

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Never everything.

• 52:52Lewis Howes?

  But like a big trick, maybe that you know, you, you always do really well, or that always goes well. And then it's like this big aha, and then no, that wasn't what I was thinking about.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred percent. Oh yeah, for sure.

• 53:02Lewis Howes?

  How do you deal with that?

• 53:03Speaker 01

  So it depends where I'm dealing with it. So let's say when I do a stage show, like a corporate event or somebody's hiring me for a private party, the one thing I have the luxury of is time. Okay. So here's what I mean by that. Imagine a director's cut of a movie. Let's say you get to watch the three alternate endings. You didn't even know that could happen. You go, wow, I didn't even know. So in some situations, the only reason you know what the ending is, is if I frame the ending. Okay, so something could go wrong that you don't even know went wrong. You don't know because I didn't say it's not an A to B. It's not think of something and I'm going to guess it. So if I can reframe, just reframe something, then you don't even know it went wrong. We just move in a different direction and pivot. And suddenly that goes right and you think that other thing didn't even matter. Do you understand what I mean? It's all the way that I frame it.

• 53:48Lewis Howes?

  You could have ended it originally, but you realize that like, oh, this isn't the end. So I need to go somewhere else.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Correct. If you didn't know, the reason you expect it is, let's say, um, if I-

• 53:58Lewis Howes?

  You said this is the final thing and here we go.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  If I tell you in advance what's going to happen, if I say, you say this and here's an envelope and look what's inside. You're expecting it to be that. But what if it's not that? What if it's something from earlier and we then go to, do you understand there's different facets?

• 54:11Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  On TV, it's very different.

• 54:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  And I do a lot of live TV now. I'm on the Today Show every month. I do quite, I was on ESPN. You see, I pretty much do usually. Knock on wood, I've been doing about two or three national TV appearances a month lately. Thank you.

• 54:24Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  So-

• 54:24Lewis Howes?

  But you gotta have kind of the end because you only get like five minutes.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Oh, that you couldn't be more right. There's a clock ticking. And when something goes wrong and a lot of the stuff I do is very risky. And a lot of other mentalists that like my friends that will say to me like, why are you doing that, man? And I go, because I like to live on the edge, like big, big risk, big reward. Where I will tell somebody, think of something and I go, right now, change your mind to another thing. And it's like they know that there's, there's just no, there's no safety net. If at that moment I don't push them and they don't go to what I want them to do, then there's no outs. Like I did this thing with Al Roker where I had him think of any celebrity. And I said, who's going to run for president in 2020? Just make someone up right now. And he goes, George Clooney, right? And then I said, I go, what if you change your mind right at this moment, picked anybody else? What if it was somebody else? He goes, I don't know. I go, just anyone.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  And he goes, Taylor Swift. And I took off my shirt and I had a picture of Taylor Swift for 2020. And it is, I'll show you the clip. And they were so freaked out that they couldn't do the next segment and they bumped the next person who I- Saw in the green room and she was so mad at me.

• 55:27Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  And they kept me on and they just kept saying like, how did you, Al was, and I, I since know them because we've developed quite a relationship in last year. But to this day, he goes, that's the one. He goes, because in that moment, I could have said anything I wanted. And he goes, you were wearing a shirt. And then I told him the joke. I go, I was wearing George Clooney underwear. Don't worry. But uh, but no, it was, it's that kind of stuff is in the moment, my heart is racing.

• 55:48Lewis Howes?

  What if he doesn't say it?

• 55:49Speaker 01

  But I'm super calm. That's like all the, it's kind of like when I line up at the race day, all my nerves are gone. Once I start running. Once I get in the zone, if I am too nervous and I don't believe it, then it won't happen. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but the visualization, the, I'm sure, you know, Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, they did their races a thousand times in their mind.

• 56:10Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Before that gun went off. So in my mind, every single scenario, I'm so focused in that moment when I'm on TV and I know that millions of people are watching that. If I don't believe it's going to happen, it might not.

• 56:22Lewis Howes?

  It's not gonna happen.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  I swear.

• 56:23Lewis Howes?

  So how long were you thinking about this, uh, routine with Al, with Al? How long were you thinking it was just like a couple of days before, weeks before?

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Probably, I mean, most of them, it's, they, you don't really have, uh, it's not like one of those things where you tell you're going to be on two months from now.

• 56:35Lewis Howes?

  They're like on Monday, they're like, hey, we want you for Wednesday.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Pretty much. It's usually about a, let's call it seven to 10 day notice.

• 56:39Lewis Howes?

  So you think about it?

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:41Lewis Howes?

  And are you thinking, this is what I want him to say? This is where I.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:44Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna wear this shirt.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  It was very clear cut.

• 56:46Lewis Howes?

  Say Taylor Swift.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  He better.

• 56:48Lewis Howes?

  And are you going over in your mind, like just visualizing it for the whole week? Like.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 56:52Lewis Howes?

  This is what I'm going to say to set him up. This is where he's going to go.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  All the time. Every run, all the time, thinking about tweaking it, thinking about where it will he think. I just know, imagine just one of those, I don't know what those, what are those charts where you? This goes to that and this goes to that. It's like a spider chart. So I'm eliminating all of those branches by what I'm saying and the way I'm influencing him, the way I'm tapping him and like. I know right when he thought of that, when I tapped him, he just went away from that. And oh, yes, this. Layers on layer. It's like inception almost. That's what I try to do.

• 57:21Lewis Howes?

  So how did you set it up for him?

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Oh, you'll watch it later. I, I.

• 57:25Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, man.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  A video is worth a thousand words.

• 57:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Cause if I tell you, you just won't, people won't believe it. You won't, when you see it.

• 57:31Lewis Howes?

  I'll believe it.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. It mostly sounds too BSy when I tell it.

• 57:35Lewis Howes?

  Now, is it more about you believing it in your mind and seeing it actually happen? Or is it more about what you say, your touch, your, what you don't say?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  All of it.

• 57:46Lewis Howes?

  All of it.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:47Lewis Howes?

  So you're thinking about every element of how to influence him to say Taylor Swift?

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Yes. A hundred percent.

• 57:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:56Lewis Howes?

  This is fascinating, man.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  It's still, with all that due diligence and all that work, I still can't get my wife to say the restaurant I want to go eat at. I'm like, where do you want to eat? She's like, anywhere you want. And I'm like sushi? She's like, no. Then I'll say like four more things and then she'll finally be like, no, I want this. I'm like, why didn't you tell me from the start? Even a mentalist has the same issues that all the rest of mortals have. So, that's why I married her. I have no idea what she's thinking.

• 58:17Lewis Howes?

  That's funny. Now, have you ever done something on TV where it went wrong? Where you're like, you had the Taylor Swift shirt underneath or whatever the shirt is.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  It's never been that, that.

• 58:27Lewis Howes?

  They were like.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Deep. The hooks have been that deep.

• 58:29Lewis Howes?

  Donald Trump, you're like, um.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  So it's.

• 58:31Lewis Howes?

  Now what?

• 58:31Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, it will happen invariably. That will be my last TV appearance, right? But no, it will invariably, um, it will happen one day, but for the big ones, for the big reveals, like the stuff that's like the end point, it's never been that. And even then, to be honest, the thing with Al Roker, I didn't know he was gonna say George Clooney first. I swear to you, I swear to you, you could, that, that that was at that moment, that was as laser focused.

• 58:57Lewis Howes?

  You tried to get him to say something else first?

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Well, I wanted him to say Taylor Swift.

• 59:02Lewis Howes?

  The first time?

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 59:03Lewis Howes?

  Oh, and then you said, switch it.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Well, you didn't know that that would be the case, but obviously if I have the shirt.

• 59:08Lewis Howes?

  You needed to.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  So at that point, for me to say to him, I go, what if, I go, in this very moment, look at me, change your mind, anyone else that you could ever think of in 2020? And he went to her. And so, to be honest.

• 59:17Lewis Howes?

  So you could do that maybe like two more times.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, uh.

• 59:21Lewis Howes?

  There, go to someone else.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Hillary, who else, who else? It was, we were on the clock and he goes, you have 45 seconds left. When I was doing something for them, it's an amazing moment. And I had about 15 seconds to do it with him. And I ripped off the shirt, almost like popped the buttons when I revealed it. But if you, um, if you watch it, it was just, at that moment, it was just laser focused, where I like had to really like Vulcan mind meld, look him right in the eye and say, if you change your mind right now, who would you change to? And he goes like this, he's like exasperated, he goes, I don't know, I go, just anyone. He goes, Taylor Swift. And it was just, it made it all the.

• 59:49Lewis Howes?

  It must have felt so good, just like, ah.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not even a rush, like my stomach dropped, everything. Yeah. So to answer your question, it hasn't happened yet, but even in the moments when it's been close, I've been able to find a way. But it will one day. It will one day.

• 1:00:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow. I'm gonna have to watch that one and see. Um, let's bring in, let's bring in, uh,

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  Get Matt.

• 1:00:11Lewis Howes?

  Sa- or Matt.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Matt, either one, either one.

• 1:00:13Lewis Howes?

  Bring them both in.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, bring them in.

• 1:00:15Lewis Howes?

  Bring them in real quick.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Can I stand up or is that gonna mess things up? Cause it's, uh, I'm a little more mobile.

• 1:00:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we got, we got here. Okay. So for those who are just listening, you're gonna wanna go to the YouTube channel and watch this right now. Um, but you'll still, you'll, you'll understand what's gonna happen. Matt is here. Caesar is here next to me. And then Oz is across from Matt. So go ahead.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  So I got in here today.

• 1:00:37Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Literally from the airport, disheveled, opened up my suitcase, and I just started throwing stuff out there. Imagine planting seeds. And I asked you to think not of work, but make it like a little more like vacation, something that was amazing. And I gave you some time. Is that right? And you came up with something. Did you come up with something pretty good? Now, I know you initially deliberated and you thought of, of, of one trip of vacation and you switched your mind, correct? I could tell. The first trip you were thinking of, uh, you mentioned, was it a place you've been to more than once? Okay. And I could tell just based on this, the hand motion, you were there, you weren't alone, you're with other people, and it's somebody close to the heart. So go back to the first thing, thing you just thought of before you changed your mind, somebody with you, really close to

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  the heart, older, dad, this your dad? Were you thinking of your dad first? You were, right? You were just thinking of your dad. No, no, no. But this is crazy, cause then you changed your mind. Am I right? Now, certain people, I told you group dynamics, Matt knows everybody in this room. So he doesn't feel like he's gotta impress you. Some people, when I tell them, think of a vacation, they're like, oh crap, I gotta really, like if he said Florida, you're gonna look at him and be like, that's the best you could do, buddy? So, so you probably didn't go with like Tahiti or something nuts. I think you probably did a place you've been to more than once, but like, it's just awesome. It's just got a place in your heart. Am I right about this? Now, you thought of your dad the first time. And so when you changed, you probably went to a female. Plus you're twiddling your thumbs, you look excited. She's not related to you, is she?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  She is not. Okay. Here's what you do. Think of the place. Um, um, um, think of where on the planet. So imagine like we spin the globe and I think this is, holy crap, this is somewhere in the US, am I right? Is this domestic?

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  Okay, think, it is somewhere in California, am I right? Holy, oh man, but it's a good one, there's no way I could know this. The person with you, think of the first letter of her name, think of the first, don't say, don't say. Listen to this noise, like a chop, it's either a C or a K, am I right? Okay, um, how many years back, how many years ago was this trip? Okay, so you went there five years ago, but you've been there more than once, would this have been like 2012? Am I doing the math right on that, or like more earlier? 2000 what, give or take? 1011. Okay, which one do you think? Probably 2010. 2010, you'll check later, it was actually 2011, but whatever, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, 2010 it is. Is there any way that I could have found this out?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Is there some way, shape, or form that Louis, Sarah, anybody in this room could have told me or given this up? I want you guys to see this in my pocket, I'm reaching in here, um, I'm gonna pull this out, it's stapled.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  We're at the school of greatness, and I wasn't taking any chances. Prediction, this thing is stapled shut, can you tell, saws, it's stapled everywhere, did I miss a corner? Did I do anything? Was I stapling anything here? Rip it open, if it's a photo of you and her there, six years ago, I'm kidding.

• 1:03:32Lewis Howes?

  A photo?

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Our camera person's gonna fail, people have gotten restraining orders, not a photo. Just humor me, where was this trip? Santa Barbara. Oh, beautiful place, read out loud what I wrote, folded, and stapled shut for him.

• 1:03:44Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 1:03:46Lewis Howes?

  I'm picking up, I'm picking up a vacation to Santa Barbara that happened in 2010, and someone with you named Kendra. Holy!

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Give him CPR, he's not breathing, he's starting to sweat.

• 1:04:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that was it?

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  I even said five years and then when you went back in 2010.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  I went through every one of his albums on Facebook this morning. You have no idea. I have thirty eight other envelopes all over my body.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  His trip to London is chafing my right thigh right now. I'm kidding. I know, I know. Tell me about it. Couldn't even do it with him. Wait, get Sarah in here. Where's Sarah? Grab Sarah real quick. Go over there. Alright Sarah, we got you on mic?

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Alright Sarah, here we go. Here's what I want you to do. I want you, please, turn on your phone. And, and take a step back so there's no way you think I can see or mirrors or anything. And I want you to start scrolling through the names. Kinda like you've done a million times before. And what you're seeking out here is this random person of the day. Somebody, you didn't even know why you picked them initially, am I right? Going through, and I see you going up, going down, scouting, looking at this guy, this girl, finally stopping. On one specific person. Did you find them? And take your time with it. Is this the person from before? Yeah, yeah, you've got somebody right in mind. Did you even know why you picked this person initially, or was this just totally random? Okay. And then put it against your stomach once you've found them. This is the person that she picked before, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Wait, when I say picked before, it's very important. There's no, this is like, you didn't tell anybody. This is like somebody you just picked out of your phone for no rhyme or reason. In fact, when you first looked, you didn't even look. You were just kinda scrolling at, put it against your body. And I can tell it's a guy. Am I right about that? Now, I don't know how your phone is laid out. I've never seen your phone, touched your phone. You didn't, you didn't write this or whisper this or any, like, right now, the only way that you have this information is you looked in your own phone. Is that correct? I wanna be sure. I watched this too. And, and I didn't tell you, go there, go there. You just went through your phone. Uh, is it a first and last name, or is it just the first? Okay, think of how many letters are in the first name, but don't count it with your mouth. Don't use your fingers. Tell me when you've counted it. That was instant.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Louis, I call that an instant read. If the name was like Mitchell, that's a struggle, man. M I T C H, that's like, but if the name is really quick. Like Joe. Like a Dan, or a Bob, or a Bill, exactly right.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Wait, why did you smile? Cause she laughed when you said one of those words. No, that was weird. She laughed at you and got very tense. No BS. Did he just read your mind? Is the name actually Joe? What? Dude, bring it in. School of Great. How did you do it? Shut up. The tension, I didn't even read her mind yet. I was just getting there, but she, she got very tight and tried to look not serious. And then she looked at you right after. Wait, wait. Go to his last name. No way. No, don't say, put it against your body. Dude, you got, you got the gift, man. Put it against your body. Put it against your body, though. Joe, do you remember his last name? Okay, let's say that I dump Scrabble tiles right here on the table. And you take them and you spell his last name with the Scrabble tiles. And I won't make you count it. Cause I see you looked a little confused. You went back and forth, which means the name is long.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  I want you to imagine you put all the tiles on the table. And you know how the Z has a lot of points and the Q has a lot of points. I don't care which one you pick up, but I want you to reach down and pick up one of the letters out of the middle. And I want you to come on over and imagine that they're laid out right here, the Scrabble tiles. I want you to pick one up out of the middle. Please pick one up and hold it in your hand. You have a tile in your hand, correct? Now, I saw when you went down, did you see how she did this? She went like this. Question, that's weird, but you didn't know which one to go with, which means you either changed your mind or weird question. Did the letter you pick up, is it in the name more than once? Okay, okay, that was because you did that. It's a vowel. Am I right? Not a vowel. Okay, okay. Let me see it. Think of that letter.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  Kinda near the end of the name? Okay, okay. Go back to the... Okay, put that down. I really thought... It's not an... It's not an N, is it? It is an N, am I right? Hold the applause, good idea in here. Cause I saw you waiver from an N and you were thinking of an E and it's, I, I, you know what? I know you were about to do it and I don't know if I'm spelling this right. Everyone always gets mad, it's not a spelling bee. It's a mind reading. Can you close your eyes for us, please? Close your eyes.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  And I feel like, and do we have, are we zoomed in on that? Yeah? We got a shot? Open your eyes. She didn't see. It's like Italian, right? Joe what? Joe Giannetto.

• 1:08:35Lewis Howes?

  What? That's crazy.

• 1:08:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow. That's crazy.

• 1:08:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Weirdest part, she barely remembers who he is and he's gonna text her in three days. She's gonna freak out, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. She's like, "Do you know Joe?"

• 1:08:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Joe's gonna hear this and he's gonna be like, "Come on, tweet me back."

• 1:09:04Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Where do you go from there, huh? Louis is like, "Alright, let's get back to the podcast." "How did you do all that crap?"

• 1:09:16Lewis Howes?

  Alright, that's what we did at the end. Crazy, man.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  I tend to ruin productivity in workplaces after this.

• 1:09:24Lewis Howes?

  Do you guys have any questions? Do you have a question? Do you have a question?

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  How much did I sell my soul for?

• 1:09:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Awesome, thanks guys. Amazing, man.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 1:09:36Lewis Howes?

  It's mind blowing. Now, a lot of that...

• 1:09:41Lewis Howes?

  The name thing, man, that's just like crazy. But a lot of that is like also persuasion, right? A lot of it's also like tells and persuasion.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Some of it. Oh yeah, the, the part with the letters. I mean, she could've thought of anyone. I know she changed right at the end and I knew it was a vowel and like, people are indecisive sometimes, right? So she, yeah.

• 1:09:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man. This is crazy.

• 1:10:01Lewis Howes?

  What's the one?

• 1:10:05Lewis Howes?

  Effect that you've always wanted to learn how to do, but you've never been able to do yet.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  So I, there's one thing that I really want to do, which is publicity stunts. So like David Blaine did amazing things where, I mean, things everybody knows about, like everybody knows.

• 1:10:18Lewis Howes?

  Stood on a pole for how long?

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. Stood on a pole for like 48 hours, didn't eat for 40 days. So.

• 1:10:22Lewis Howes?

  Forty days didn't eat.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  That's what they said. Yeah. He was in a glass box in London, um, that they kind of, you know, had hanging and he's just done a lot of these stunts, like being buried alive. And so those types of stunts, I've always wanted to do one. I haven't fully figured it out yet, but I want to do a minor even stunt.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  A Houdini thing.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Not so much. So those stunts, there's two elements that will capture attention, right? The first one is danger, right? So, so either you're starving yourself or you're putting yourself, you're shooting a bullet or something where could this go wrong? You know, kind of that same feeling, that mentality when you're at a racetrack where you don't want anyone to get hurt, but you're like, this has that danger element, right? So the other one is if I'm not doing something dangerous, which is things like a Russian roulette. Like, uh, in a lot of shows, there's a famous trick that mentors do where they'll put a knife or a spear under a, a paper bag and they'll get blindfolded. And they'll tell one person, know where it is. And he can feel where that person's tension is and he'll smack every single bag.

• 1:11:14Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Except that one.

• 1:11:15Lewis Howes?

  David's done that too, right? I've seen him like.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  I mean, everyone, it's a very, it's a famous trick, but we all, it's scary. I know a guy who went right through his hands.

• 1:11:21Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Right on video, one of my good friends in Israel, like knife went right through, and this is your livelihood we're talking about. So there's real elements of danger, but that so many people have done. So if you either do danger or you do something that's endurance, like what if I literally just, uh, you know, could walk up to every single person who walked up to me and, uh, read their mind with something simple, like if we played rock, paper, scissors or we flipped a coin. And you do this with a thousand people in a row. And if I lose, I'm going to pay you a million dollars.

• 1:11:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  So that would be the next level where you don't introduce an element of danger, but you introduce an element of wow, what if I could? So that's the only way a real publicity stunt could work with mentalism, unless you want, I don't personally like the danger because what do you want to happen? People actually want the bloodthirstiness where you actually want it. Otherwise, at the end, it's a bit of a letdown. You feel relieved they didn't get hurt, but part of you wants to see it. It's just natural. It's the Gladiator.

• 1:12:12Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, man.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  It's Roman Colosseum.

• 1:12:13Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  So I don't know if I want to. Kind of incentivize people to want to see me get hurt. Uh, some people do. Don't get me wrong. Some people, when they hate me, like at the end of the show, they're like, yeah, I want to see this guy get stabbed. But, uh, more of how many people's minds could I read at once? Because it gets exponentially more difficult. One-on-one, the show is, is easier for what I do, but you suddenly incorporate 10 people, 15, 20. It's not 10 times as hard. It gets to be a thousand, 10,000. So you have to watch everybody at once. And that's where it would be exciting for me and for everyone else.

• 1:12:45Lewis Howes?

  Well, didn't, is that Lior? Didn't he do something like that on TV?

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Yes, like a mass hypnosis effect.

• 1:12:49Lewis Howes?

  Wrote down a name and then they flipped it over?

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, a drawing, a star. Yep. So that was very cool. So yeah, it's something he worked on for a while.

• 1:12:57Lewis Howes?

  Star is probably easier, a symbol is probably easier than a name, I would think.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 1:13:00Lewis Howes?

  So anyone can just, you know, if you influence everyone's minds to go into a star, I'm assuming is what he did, right? It's crazy, but still in the whole audience.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  It was like everyone had drawn a star and then one person in the corner had drawn a penis. It was hysterical. You get 250 people on TV, someone's drawing a dick. Yeah, it's a, you know.

• 1:13:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  PG 13.

• 1:13:19Lewis Howes?

  But wasn't he like, okay, don't make it like something like a tree or like this or like that, like eliminating things, right?

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:13:24Lewis Howes?

  Like, okay, what's the next thing?

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's still, that's, that's impressive, that power of suggestion. Yep.

• 1:13:29Lewis Howes?

  Unbelievable, man. What's the thing that you've learned from the power of suggestion and, and human dynamics in terms of

• 1:13:37Lewis Howes?

  sales?

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Sales?

• 1:13:39Lewis Howes?

  How you sell something. If so, if there's an entrepreneur listening or watching, what could we take away that's more about persuasion or about, uh, sales or about, um,

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Negotiation. Oh my goodness. I mean, what I do is so rooted in the skills of negotiation.

• 1:13:54Lewis Howes?

  What's a few, maybe one or two things that everyone should be doing in a negotiation?

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  So these aren't things that I've invented, mind you. These are things that I use and that as a mentalist, I'm just a little more keenly aware of when people are going to react based on their body language. But that expression of he or she who talks first loses in a negotiation is so true. People are scared to pause, to just let air settle. So for example, I almost never, when I used to do negotiations, would ever mention price. Just never talk about money. There was never, I would tell you everything about it and wait for you to ask about it. You know, everything about it until there, because otherwise you make that situation awkward. There's something to be said for allowing people to simmer, to get excited about something, to build it up.

• 1:14:36Lewis Howes?

  And say how much?

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Exactly. Before you go to how much. And then with the how much question, as soon as you list something. Now, this is obviously more rooted in a service versus if you're selling a product or a widget or something else, then obviously negotiations don't really matter. So many things are the art of the deal, right? I mean, if it's renting an apartment, if it's buying a car, if it's all these different things where there's different levels of power as to who wants something more than the other and finding that balance. I mean, it's not going to be applicable to everyone's business, but once you're done speaking and you've laid something out, do not speak again. If you start backtracking, if you say, oh, it's, it's $2,000 and then they just let it hang and you let, well, what do you think? Or that's right there is the sign of weakness. Allow that other person to digest it.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  And honestly, I've let five, 10, 15 seconds go by and that's an eternity.

• 1:15:23Lewis Howes?

  Forever.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  Of somebody.

• 1:15:25Lewis Howes?

  When you say the price or you don't say the price?

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Well, I, it's, it's just changed now because I have somebody, exactly. But when I was doing it and when I, is I would give a price and then I let that sit. I just, that's it. At that point, let them say what they want to say, whether it works, whether it doesn't work, where they want to go with it. And then you move from there.

• 1:15:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Uh, giving options is also a great thing. If you were to walk into a store and you don't really know what you're going to pay. There's a lot of things in this world that you don't know what you're going to pay. Until you get married, you probably don't know what a DJ or a wedding photographer, anything, these things cost, right? So if you give out packages, like here's silver, here's gold and here's platinum. People always don't want the cheapest option. They want to feel like they got a deal, but on something that's like better, right? There's always that feeling of you want to feel like you got a deal. So if you can build that into the cake, that's always great. That's always great. But if you negotiate on things, you're always going to negotiate. So there's something risky to be said where if you're always negotiable. People will know that and they'll always know that they can negotiate you down. So you need to decide where you want to be with that.

• 1:16:28Lewis Howes?

  Hmm hmm.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:16:30Lewis Howes?

  What's the skill you've yet to master? That needs to take your game to another level. So there's persuasion, human dynamics, there's.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  I think.

• 1:16:38Lewis Howes?

  Suggestion, there's memory, there's all these different things you've mastered to a certain level, but what's, what's missing for you?

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  Something I'm trying to always work on more and more is listening, is honestly finding mentors and listening to them. So whether that is people that are in my field that are better or that have things to offer me, or even if they're not, even if I don't think, I don't think whether, I shouldn't have said better, to be honest. I can learn things from others, no matter where they are, because there's people, there's things they'll know. And if you become closed off to that and think, oh, this person doesn't perform as much to me, they don't make as much money. You can start to not take other people's opinions and get too full of yourself. I meet so many interesting people. It's probably the best part of my job that are incredibly successful, incredibly motivated. People at kind of the top of their fields, like billionaires at hedge funds, CEOs of corporations, people that have mastered the game of what they do.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  And I try to deflect conversations as often as possible because as soon as I do a trick, people like, wow, that's crazy. Do more. And I, I want to learn from them. So I try to ask poignant questions about them that are going to give me takeaways. The moment you think you know it all, you're dead in the water. You are dead in the water. Like I like to learn from others. Why did you do this? How did you do this? Even if I don't know why or what it will apply to my life now, I try to learn that for the future. So I, I'm not, I don't do it often enough. I really, really make an effort to listen to others. And that's how I learn names. When you asked me, the, the best trick is how do you learn all those people's names? Most people, when they actually hear a name, they're not listening.

• 1:18:07Lewis Howes?

  Goes right out.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  Well, you're thinking about what you're going to say, or you're in motion, or you do something, or if you didn't really catch it, stop, pause, shake their hand again and say, I'm so sorry. I missed that. What was your name? Or just say, oh, and then you'll give a, a compliment. Oh, Louis, I love your shirt, man. That looks really great, Louis. And you say it twice. And it gets anchored and it'll get anchored in your short term and it'll be anchored probably for the next 25, 30 minutes and you relate something to them. So there's just tricks to the trade that aren't anything special, but the big. Biggest one is, most people don't listen when they hear a name. They're doing something, they're thinking something, and so they're not open to really remembering it. Imagine if you had just met your idol, right? If you had just met Paul McCartney and you're a Beatles fan. You're gonna digest every single word he says.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  You're gonna be taking it in like it's a moment in your life that you will never forget, it'll be imprinted. So you're probably not gonna be that much when you meet a new person, but if you can get 10% of that, of that focus, when you see them, look them in the eye, repeat their name, give a compliment, you will know their name for the next half hour.

• 1:19:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, wow. What's the dream for you then, moving forward? You've been on-

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Next goal?

• 1:19:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you've been on America's Got Talent, you know, you're doing the biggest shows in the world, the biggest stages, you're on the press all the time. You know, what's, what's, where do you wanna go?

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  Man, I wanna keep it going. I would love, I think, right now, it's such a changing media landscape where people can do stuff online and get huge, and there's so many different facets, but TV is still, at this moment in time, the biggest way that everybody can see you, that you can create kind of a persona, a legend, captivate the public. So honestly, a TV show would probably be where if you told me where do I see 12 months from now? A killer TV show or a TV special where I can really debut my type of mentalism. Uh, and that, that's hard work, man.

• 1:19:49Lewis Howes?

  It's tough.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's tough because like I said, luck, timing, everything.

• 1:19:54Lewis Howes?

  So, would it be kind of a street performance show or be more of like a?

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  I think, I think that there would be some element of just performance, where you would watch it and go, wow, that was crazy. But I think that what is so cool about mentalism that's different than just magic, is the takeaways, is the things you could watch and learn from and see and dissect. And if you go home and suddenly know some of these body language things, that's really cool and that's really fun and uh, you do it in a way that makes people feel good.

• 1:20:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, maybe, I wouldn't say I'm gonna be teaching, it's not a-

• 1:20:24Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Bringing, but like that type of thing where people learn more about the mind in a freaky way.

• 1:20:29Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I like that.

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Lewis Howes?

  Man, so when's it gonna happen?

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Trying to make that dream a reality. I wish I knew.

• 1:20:36Lewis Howes?

  What's the date? It's gonna be on air.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  For now, I'm just keeping the hustle alive. Going into meetings, doing what I can do, doing shows and having fun all around the country, all around the globe.

• 1:20:44Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing, man. Uh, what's missing in your life?

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  What's missing? Right now, my son and, and, and my wife are, are there traveling too. So I haven't seen them in like 12 days. It's killing me. I got a six month old. He is the apple of my eye. I cannot, I love this kid so much. Fatherhood was a game changer.

• 1:21:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like incredible.

• 1:21:04Lewis Howes?

  How's it make you think about your career differently?

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  Well, it just makes me think of, I value my time in a way that I didn't used to. It used to be just, I want to make money and I, I didn't really come from money. So now the fact that like, I'm able to earn it, it's security. But it's at a stage in my life where I realize that that money I'm making, I can't buy the time that I'm missing back. You know what I mean? Like I can't, these 12 days when he's like this old and he's this funny and he's this, you can't get that back. So I really am much more particular about things I do.

• 1:21:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  And if I don't enjoy them and if they're not worth it to me and if they're not of value, and the same for races. I'll put a race ahead of making money or doing a show or doing something important because I know that 10 years from now, I'm never gonna look back and be like, I wish I would have done that show and made that amount of money.

• 1:21:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  I, I just, even if I'm broke, that's not gonna be the moment. I can't give you a value to crossing that finish line for Spartaathlon. I can't give you a value. It's like certain times when I'm with my kid and he's so funny and we just have like a crazy moment. You're gonna remember that. It's like, it's, yeah, it's a little bit, a little bit cheesy, but it really is worth more than money. Some of those things and it's taken me a long time to learn that.

• 1:22:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool, man. And how old are you now?

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Thirty-four.

• 1:22:12Lewis Howes?

  Me too.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:13Lewis Howes?

  When was your birthday?

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Eighty-two.

• 1:22:15Lewis Howes?

  Eighty-two, I'm eighty-three. So you'll be thirty-five soon, huh?

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 1:22:18Lewis Howes?

  What's the month?

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Getting up there, July.

• 1:22:20Lewis Howes?

  July, coming up, man. Wow, that's awesome. It's amazing what you've created.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:22:24Lewis Howes?

  Um, a couple of final questions for you.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Lewis Howes?

  It's called the three truths. And if this is your last day on earth and you only have three things to share with the world, three lessons, three things you know to be true from everything you've learned about fatherhood, life, relationships, mentalism, anything, what would you say are your three final truths?

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  One is my ultra running mantra, which I didn't make up, but it can't always get worse. So when I'm, i- i- it will eventually get better. No matter what, no matter what you're doing, no matter, I mean, if you're sick, if you're anything, if you're unemployed, if somebody's close to you, a heartbreak, anything like that, when you're in the lowest of lows, you will get out of it. Like it will at some point improve. And I've just experienced that in a running where I'm, my legs aren't working, I'm on the ground, I'm, you know, miserable, I'm just despondent, I'm broken, like a broken person. I've never experienced as much as during like a really awful one of these races.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  I have to have that mindset where if I think this is it, I'm gonna quit. And I tell myself, this will get better. It's kinda like if you just force yourself to smile at certain points, even though you feel like crap, just try it, just smile for the next five minutes. You will somehow feel better. It's a physiological thing. It's the same way that, you know, you yawn, somebody else yawns in the room. It's a physiological thing. So that, that's honestly, number one, is whenever I feel like crap and I just, I'm down and I'm moody or anything. You know, you can try to be thankful, but in my mind, the one that really works for me is just saying, it's gonna get better. Whatever I'm doing, you know, stopping a baby, this will get better. Focus on that kernel of like where it will get better and it always does. Wow, okay. That's one. Yep, number two.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Number two, a truth of my own or truth that I've learned from others. Either one, a truth, these would be your final three things you'd share with the world. Final three things I would share with the world. The lessons. So tough, huh? That's number one. Number two, man, I gotta say it, happy wife, happy life. That one is definitely up.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  She makes my life great. I am very lucky man. I found an incredible woman and uh, that's very true. So that, that's one of them that I focus on quite a bit. There you go. Uh, that's a good one. The third one? Third one, third one, third one, third one.

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  And I, I think, I think like friendships and family, those are the people that are gonna be there for you in the long haul. And those things you really need to nurture and everyone's family is nuts. My family's pretty crazy. And I've just recently like going through some stuff here and there and I'm really trying to fix things up quite a bit. And I try to always remember that, that like, if these are the people that wiped your butt when you were born. And these are the people that were with you when you did stupid stuff and like you can't put a value on that. So I really like, I missed a buddy's birthday. I gotta make it up to him and I, I really try to take time, even when I'm busy, even when a lot's going on in my life. To put those people forward and listen to them, talk to them, see what's going on and maintain relationships. I always try to. Call people on the phone and now especially when it's just a texting society.

• 1:25:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  You lose a lot of that, you lose a lot of that and I, I'm traveling so much with work. I might be on the road. Two, three weeks out of a month that I really try to make a point of, of, I don't know, staying in touch because that. Those are the people that in the end are gonna mean everything.

• 1:25:41Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Especially when you're in entertainment, things can be fickle, suddenly. Famous, you're this, you're that, things happen like that's where I get grounded. That's the people that. My buddy will still bust my butt. I could go do a TV show and then he just comes back and busts my balls and makes fun of me and that's what you need. You need like that kind of thing. To, you know, I don't, I.

• 1:25:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  To just, that, those are the people.

• 1:26:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  That's what matters at the end of the day.

• 1:26:03Lewis Howes?

  I like it. Yeah. Cause the bigger you get, you wanna make sure you always stay grounded.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  I'm not that big, but even no matter what, how big I ever got, I assure you. I would still, I would still be, get put in my place by my wife, my mom, my sisters, you know, that's not gonna change.

• 1:26:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right. I love it. Um, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Oz, for your incredible gift to move people.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:26:24Lewis Howes?

  To have people shock, awe, wonder, and again, to think differently than they normally don't think.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:26:30Lewis Howes?

  In a society where we're constantly texting and on the phone and not experiencing these emotions. You bring it out of so many people and you did it when I saw you on the show. Uh, you've done it today. And I just want to acknowledge you for your incredible gifts, man. It's, it's inspiring to see.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. You too.

• 1:26:46Lewis Howes?

  Thank you very much. Um. Before I ask the final question, where can we go to connect with you? What's your site? What, you know, do you have anything we can learn more about online?

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  So I perform all over. It's kind of like I can't plug one thing because that thing will happen and there will be 10 more.

• 1:27:02Lewis Howes?

  So tour dates on your site?

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so everything is on my site and then the social, like if, you know, Twitter, Instagram, all that. I'm at OzTheMentalist and Oz looks like Oz, like Wizard of Oz, so it's Oz The Mentalist.

• 1:27:14Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  And that's everything. I mean, you can go to my website too, but I don't even know if people go to websites anymore. But it's ozpearlman.com, O Z P E A R L M A N dot com. And I do events all over the place, big and small. I end up doing a lot of NPO charity work, like fundraisers that I do quite a bit. So those tend to be ticketed and you can kind of go see those. And then occasionally I tour as well, so.

• 1:27:37Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  It's one of those shows where I say this as humble as I can, you really have to see it to believe it. Cause I'm the biggest skeptic in the world. I don't believe any of this crap. So that's how I got into it. I see them and I'm like, I don't buy it. I got it. So I'm the one who wants to dissect and learn it. And when you see it, I never embarrass people. You're never put on the spot. It's, this isn't like plucking like a chicken. It's a wholesome, interactive experience where you simply don't believe what I can figure out about you and how I can figure out your body language and your tells and just in an entertaining way that connects people. You walk out with somebody next to you and you have a joint memory that you're going to talk about forever. And that's a lot of what I do at companies is I go in there and it's kind of like a social lubricant.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  People that don't know each other leave because, you know, if you go skydiving, if you do walk on fire, you know, cross fire with Tony Robbins, like if you do some of these things that are harrowing and different and unique, it, it bonds you to somebody else. And that's what I try to do. I try to create memories that you're going to remember for years to come, more than fool you. That's what I want. I want you to walk out of there laughing and remembering and coming back to me five years later and be like, how the hell did you know my dog's name from when I was six? That's what I want. And they, they're not mad at me. They just love that moment that they had at that, like how?

• 1:28:48Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. Amazing. Well, make sure you guys go check him out on social media at OzTheMentalist.

• 1:28:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:28:55Lewis Howes?

  On all social media, ozpearlman.com.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 1:28:57Lewis Howes?

  Go to check out your tours, everything else you're doing. It's amazing. Um, final question is what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Definition of greatness? I think my definition of greatness.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  Has got to be achieving more than you thought was possible. So if you're just status quo-ing it and you're living comfortable, that's great, but that's not greatness. Greatness is something that you thought you could never do. And I want that for the rest of my life. I hope I can do that until my dying breath. Is there's something and that's what racing has been for me. That's what family has been for me. That's what everything I do is I want something that's just out of my grasp that I don't know if I can do. And that's the reason when you asked me why I did that thing with Al Roker, because I didn't know if it would really work.

• 1:29:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  I hoped it would work. I sure as hell thought the odds were in my favor, but I didn't know. And so if I didn't do it, then I wouldn't be able to live with myself. So I want something that I haven't yet done. It's kind of like, I mean, I'm not into mountain climbing, but if I did one mountain, I think the next one I'd want to do is Everest. Like I constantly want something that's in my calendar, something that I could look forward to. And no matter what that is, it's like if I'm, when I'm feeling sick, I want to get healthy. When I'm eating like crap, I want to eat better. Just something the next level. So greatness is taking it to the next level, whatever that could be for you. If you're a couch potato doing nothing and you want to go walk a mile and you don't believe it, that's greatness. You need to strive for something you didn't think was possible and make it happen.

• 1:30:22Lewis Howes?

  Mmm, Ozz Proma, thank you so much.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:30:24Lewis Howes?

  It's awesome.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:30:28Lewis Howes?

  Boom shakalaka. There you guys have it. I hope you enjoyed this one. Again, if you did, make sure to share this out with your friends. LewisHowes.com/476. Connect with Ozz on social media. Tag me at Lewis Howes and let me know what you thought. We all have the power to achieve greatness in our lives. It may not happen overnight. In fact, it's highly unlikely that anything great happens quickly. But one day at a time, if you continue to give your best, stay clear on your vision and surround yourself with a community of inspiring people that lift you up and that support your dream, it is all possible. I love you very much and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.