364 How to Overcome Fear On the Battlefield and In Life with Capt Dale Dye

"One of the great things about being a leader is you tend to forget about yourself." - Capt Dale Dye If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/364 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 364 with Captain Dale Dye.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness. Super pumped and excited about our guest today. His name is Captain Dale Dye, and he is a US Marine who served in Vietnam, receiving three Purple Hearts. He also spent 22 years in the military before heading to Hollywood. And now he's an actor who has dedicated his career to accurately portraying military roles on screen. He's best known for his roles in Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and Natural Born Killers, to name a few. He's also created a company, Warriors, Inc., to teach actors how to appeal realistic in war scenes on films.

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  He talks about all of the famous actors and famous war movies that he's consulted on to really train these actors. He puts them through extreme conditions, extreme boot camp style conditions, to put them in realistic moments so they can accurately portray what it's actually like in combat on the screen. I had a lot of fun connecting with Dale and hearing his stories. I mean, he has so many incredible stories. And man, he has been through a lot. So there was a lot of wisdom and knowledge here. And you know, one of the things I was fascinated with was how he manages fear and how you manage fear on the combat field

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  and how you translate managing that in the real world and relationships, also while you're acting in all these different areas. So we talk about how to get to the point where you don't show fear, even if you're feeling fear. Then we talk about emotional strength. And physical strength, and which one is more important on the battlefield and in life? He talks about his perspective on women joining the military, how to get through an extremely stressful moment in combat, and Dale's experience on managing emotions while in military service. And I asked him, you know, how were you able to express yourself? And did you feel like military hold you back emotionally in any way during the military?

• 2:37Lewis Howes?

  And once you got out in relationships? And there were some fascinating things that he shared, and I'd love to get your feedback and opinion on these. So make sure to tweet me at Lewis Howes and let me know what you thought. Also, check out the full video interview, all the show notes, and everything we talked about linked in this episode at lewishowes.com/364. And share this out with your friends. Share it out because I think it's going to be a great perspective for a lot of people listening, no matter what industry or field they are in. And without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Captain Dale Dye. Welcome everyone back to School of Great's Podcast. I'm very excited about our guest today.

• 3:21Lewis Howes?

  His name is Captain Dale Dye. Good to see you. Thank you. Good to see you. And I want to read your bio because I think it's pretty impressive. I think you'll be fascinated with this. Okay, so bear with me for a second. All right, I'll bear. Captain Dale Dye enlisted in the United States Marine Corps in January 1964, correct? Yeah. Okay. He served in Vietnam, serving 31 major combat operations. He emerged from Southeast Asia highly decorated, including three Purple Hearts for wounds suffered in combat. He spent 13 years as an enlisted Marine. Then he was sent to Beirut with the multinational peacekeeping force. He spent time in Central America, reporting and training troops in guerrilla warfare

• 4:04Lewis Howes?

  techniques in both El Salvador and Nicaragua, before heading to Hollywood. And he is now an actor who is, who has dedicated his career to accurately portraying military roles on screen. He's best known for his roles in Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and Natural Born Killers, to name a few. He's also created a company called Warriors Inc. that teaches actors how to appeal realistic in war scenes in films. Is that accurate? Is that correct?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  That's pretty fair. It's a little overblown, but yeah, there you have it.

• 4:35Lewis Howes?

  I like it. I like it. And a fun fact about you is you joined the Marine Corps after high school because you didn't have enough money for college. Is that right?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted to. I'd gone to military schools, Lewis. Missouri Military Academy.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  In Missouri, huh?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:50Lewis Howes?

  I went to high school in St. Louis.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Oh terrific. Yeah, I'm from Cape Girardeau.

• 4:53Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. Awesome.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  So, I really wanted to go to the Naval Academy.

• 4:59Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  But I was a bit more of a jock than I was a scholar. And so when I took the test for the Naval Academy, I couldn't pass.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  All right.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  And in those days, you know, there wasn't a lot of grant money around and all that sort of thing. So, you know, I wasn't going to play professional baseball, it looked like, and I wasn't going to the Naval Academy and, you know, poor me, so I cried the poor ass for a little while and then joined the Marine Corps.

• 5:22Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Kind of Foreign Legion thing.

• 5:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay. But you say it's more hardcore than the other academy, right?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:28Lewis Howes?

  More of a jock academy, right?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, the Marine Corps is a jock thing. You know, I mean, you gotta be ready to roll at any time and you gotta roll hard. And that appealed to me.

• 5:37Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. I'm curious, just off the, what was the most fascinating part for you about boot camp going into that? What was the most biggest challenge or?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Well, it wasn't that big a challenge for me.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Because I'd been through all of the military school discipline and I'd learned the basics and that sort of thing. Yeah. So it was really a chance to start studying the military society as it really exists. And I enjoyed watching the power plays.

• 6:05Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean by that?

• 6:06Speaker 01

  With the drill instructors and how they trained us and how they taught us. I saw through it a bit. I knew what they were doing. And I just thought it was colorful and wonderful and I kept my mouth shut and cruised through it. And I knew right then, I think, that this was something for me. This appealed to me.

• 6:24Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's cool. Okay. So it wasn't challenging at all? And boot camp is, is it two weeks or is it four weeks?

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no. It was 13 weeks.

• 6:33Lewis Howes?

  13 weeks?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I went through.

• 6:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  I think it's down to 11 now or something like that.

• 6:37Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  But it was a tough school, a hard school. When I say it wasn't a challenge for me, I don't mean it wasn't physically a challenge. They will wear you out.

• 6:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And they did.

• 6:50Lewis Howes?

  Okay. And so after that, you spent 13 years in the Marines, right?

• 6:54Speaker 01

  No, 13 years as an enlisted man.

• 6:56Lewis Howes?

  Enlisted man.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  And then I put in for a commission. And I was commissioned and finally finished as a captain after 22 years.

• 7:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow. So 22 total?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  So I'm what's called a Mustang. I came up from the enlisted ranks.

• 7:09Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so 22 is that total years?

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay. And how many years as a captain? 22 years, sir?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  There would have been about seven years as a commissioned officer.

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Seven years commissioned, okay, awesome. Impressive. That's pretty cool. And how many different ranks are there, just so I'm aware?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Well, there's nine in the enlisted rank structure. And I made eight of them. And then I applied to become an officer, but I didn't have a college degree. So they made me a warrant officer. And at that point, I was going to night school. And I was trying to get a college degree so I could advance. And eventually I did.

• 7:46Lewis Howes?

  To the ninth position or to?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I'd already finished with the enlisted stuff.

• 7:52Lewis Howes?

  Okay, I got you, got you.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Now I was an officer and I wanted to advance as an officer.

• 7:56Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  So I needed a college education. I was going to night school, the University of Maryland, where I eventually graduated. I remember I was out on Okinawa and going to night school. And I was trying for a degree, a baccalaureate in arts degree. And I needed a week. Where I had no duties in the Marine Corps. I just had to study because I was challenging the exams and finals were coming up. And if I could only pass these exams, I'd be granted my degree. So I went to see my battalion commander, who was an old time salty tough Marine. And I said, "Sir, uh, look, I, uh, I, I really need a week off, uh, because I gotta study and this is my degree and I'm really trying to advance." And he looked at

• 8:42Speaker 01

  me and he said, "A week off, huh? What, uh, what, what's your, uh, major, Di?" And I said, "Uh, sir, it's, uh, English literature." He thought for a minute and he said, "What, what are you gonna do, Di? Are you gonna read 'em to death?"

• 8:57Lewis Howes?

  [laughing]

• 8:58Speaker 01

  "Yes, sir, I probably won't do that." He gave me the time off anyway. I was, I was able to complete the degree.

• 9:04Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Okay. Was the goal always to be captain or was it something else?

• 9:08Speaker 01

  No, I didn't know what the goal was. I, the goal was to be able to lead more people.

• 9:13Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  That, that was always my thrill.

• 9:17Lewis Howes?

  Why, why did you want to do that?

• 9:18Speaker 01

  I, I guess it is seeing and influencing other people's behavior and performance. Uh, that was, that was a, a treat for me. Uh, raising other people's children essentially is what I was doing and, and I loved it. I mean, you could see young men and women in the Marine Corps, in, in my units, um, grasping and trying and, and trying to succeed and try to get ahead. And they had all the typical problems that young people do. And, um, I liked being Papa Bear. I liked being the guy they came to and said, uh, you know, "Sir, I, I got this problem and what do I do about it?" And sometimes I didn't know.

• 9:59Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  But I appreciated that they would come to me and I would try to work out something to help them get along and help them advance. And, and I was, that was a great thrill for me. I enjoyed that.

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. And so every, so you have to educate me because I don't know about all the ranking and how many things.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Clearly you don't, but go ahead.

• 10:15Lewis Howes?

  I don't. I don't. So educate me and all the people that don't know, listening. So at each rank, you're responsible for more people, I'm assuming?

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:24Lewis Howes?

  When you're listed, right? And then as a captain, how many are you leading at that point?

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Well, it depends on what you're doing.

• 10:30Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  You could lead up to 200. Um, I think the most I had at one point was probably 50 or 60.

• 10:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay, as a captain?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:38Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Uh, and, and it was, um, It was a challenge because they're all individuals. They're all trying to succeed. They're all trying to survive.

• 10:48Lewis Howes?

  They have different desires, wants.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  They do, sure they do, yeah. And I would try to recognize those things. And I would, I would try to guide them along, not to make big mistakes. It's a, it's a tough deal with young folks. And, and the more we move into more modern society and the more pressures are on young people, the tougher it gets to lead them. But, but I think they're all looking for it. At least I perceive that. I would always think back on the people who influenced me and, and how they, you know, tough love, I guess, would be the way you could, would be the way you'd describe it. But they would take me, you know, by the arm and say, "Listen."

• 11:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  You. The following attends. Pay attention, you know? And I'd listen and, and usually their advice was right on the money. Not that I wanted to hear it sometimes.

• 11:39Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  I was like anybody else, a little hard head.

• 11:41Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  But once you get past that and you know that you're dealing with a mentor, you know, a person who, who really wants to help you out and does have your best interest at heart, those people make a huge influence on your life. I mean, you know that. Your coaches.

• 11:55Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Some of the guys who coached you, some, some of the guys who taught you. You always remember those people because they made such an influence on you.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  Teachers, coaches.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:05Lewis Howes?

  Mentors, of course.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  What was combat like for you when you were, you know, enlisted and then when you were also as a captain? What were the differences and what was it like?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Well, there's no difference in combat. Look, when, when somebody's trying to kill you and, and your mission is to kill them before they do it, you're in extremis. You're in as far as a person can get. Everything's at stake. And you realize that. Do you ever get used to it? Probably not. But I think you, you learn to manage the fear. I think you learn to deal with it and pay attention to other things. I've always thought that one of the great things about being a leader, especially in combat, was that you tended to forget about yourself, which I think is magic. I wish more people

• 12:58Speaker 01

  could do it. I mean, we're way too self-centered nowadays, and it's not about you a lot of times. It's about the mission. It's about what we've got to do. It's about the other people that you're responsible for. And in my case, when I was in bad straits, when I was in dire straits, that always helped me to get over the fear that I had. You know, I don't have time to be afraid for myself right now. I've got to be afraid for this guy and this guy and this guy. I've got to be afraid that we won't get the mission done. And that's everything.

• 13:28Lewis Howes?

  But when it's life or death on the line, it's still challenging, right?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  It's a tough one, and it's ugly. Listen, you know, I've always thought that in one way, Hemingway was right. He said that war is man's greatest adventure, and it's true.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  Greatest nightmare.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It is the greatest nightmare. It's ugly. And you see some things you never forget and you never want to see again. But there you are. That's what you're in it to do it.

• 13:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  And you've got to do it. And I like the selflessness part of it. I like the business of serving and sacrificing, although those have become cliches now. But I like the business of doing something that's, being engaged in something that's bigger than myself.

• 14:16Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Carrying a mission and a role that means something bigger than, am I going to survive? It means, is my nation and my countrymen going to survive?

• 14:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  That's what I try to keep in the back of my mind.

• 14:29Lewis Howes?

  Of course. I think it's hard to feel fulfilled and happy if it's just about you.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  Boy, I would think so. Yeah. I mean, every time I've gotten wrapped around my own axle, it's never worked out real well.

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  It's not fulfilling. It's stressful. It's, you know, there's frustration, you know, things like that. So I just can't, it's just hard for me to imagine. I remember there's a moment in high school, I was like, you know, maybe the military is something I would do. But then I quickly got out of that and I was like, I'd rather be a professional athlete, you know, like that was the dream.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:59Lewis Howes?

  But I always had pride, you know, my dream was to represent my country to the best of my ability. And now I play with the USA national team for a sport called team handball. So I feel like in some way, small way, I'm doing that when I wear USA across my chest.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you feel that.

• 15:13Lewis Howes?

  But I feel the pride. I'm like welling up in tears when they're singing the national anthem before every game. Like it's amazing for me.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, but there's, there's more to whether or not you win the game.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's my life doesn't depend on.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 15:25Lewis Howes?

  You know, if we lose, I'm not gonna die.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  No, but, but you feel that weight because you're carrying that USA across your chest.

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  I feel it and I don't, I don't want to see, people see me, you know, it's like.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 15:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so I mean, in some ways I can sort of relate, but not in close. Who is someone that in your mind reminds you, or who's one of the most inspiring people that you served alongside on any mission or combat? And what was it that they did that inspired you so much?

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Well, there's, there's been a lot of them. I, I think, I think the person who probably taught me, taught me to conquer fear was a platoon commander that I had in Echo Company, Second Battalion, Third Marines. We called him Wild Bill Tehan. And Bill was absolutely fearless, or I thought he was. Because he would, he would always be out front and running and rounds flying all over the place and people dropping here and there and getting blown into bloody pulp and, and we'd be shocked when something like that would happen. But Tehan would get up and say, follow me, and off he would go.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  And, you know, I just thought he was a lunatic. I mean, this guy, you know.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  He would just run into the war and bullets flying around.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, he badly needs to be committed somewhere, but, but there came a night, we were out and we'd had a really bad day, tough day, lots of, lots of folks down and. Getting chewed up and, and I was in a

• 16:59Lewis Howes?

  Where was this?

• 16:59Speaker 01

  In Vietnam, uh, near the Quavion River and, uh, I was in a hole, you know, trying to stay awake and

• 17:07Lewis Howes?

  Stay alive, right?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  He dropped into the hole and started talking to me and, uh, and I, you know, I figured what the hell, I'm probably going to be dead tomorrow. I'll just ask this guy, you know, what the deal is and, and he told me a lot about, you know, he, he said some things that I've since read later, um, and I don't know if he had read them or it's just how he felt, but, but he said, you know, it's, it's just about not letting anybody know how afraid you are. He said, I've, I've got a platoon here and I need to run and I need to inspire and I need to motivate and I need to take care of. And in order to do that, they can't see me afraid, but I am. Hmm. And I, I thought, you know, I've just had

• 17:53Speaker 01

  one of these epiphanies, you know, the light bulb just came on above my head. He wasn't fearless at all. He was just as afraid as the rest of us were. Um, but he knew how to manage it. He knew how to deal with it for himself.

• 18:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  So that it wouldn't affect us. And I thought, well, there, there's a lesson for you.

• 18:10Lewis Howes?

  Huh. So is it better to essentially, I don't know, fake it that you're not afraid or whatever you do to manage it so that you're not showing fear or to be more vulnerable and say, hey, guys, I'm afraid just like you, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to go after you.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  No, no, no, that's, that's touchy feely.

• 18:28Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Uh, you can't go

• 18:29Lewis Howes?

  Especially in the war, you can't do that.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't go that way. Um, I, I think it

• 18:33Lewis Howes?

  What about in life, can you go that way?

• 18:34Speaker 01

  It, I doubt it.

• 18:35Lewis Howes?

  And not a life or death situation?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  What, what I, what calls to my, what that calls to mind in, in my case is something I hear here in Hollywood all the time. And that is never let them see you sweat.

• 18:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  You know, I think, I think there's something to that. There's a, there's a certain bearing that you've got to have as a leader and as a human being. And you have to maintain that bearing. Now that's something that's learned. That's something you have to practice. But when you've got it, uh, it goes a long way toward conquering fear. It's, if, if someone asks me, were you afraid? The answer is yes. Oh, hell yes. I was afraid. Um, but I managed not to let it Stall me, not to, not to let it conquer.

• 19:21Lewis Howes?

  Hesitate or?

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and I think that's what you have to do.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  How does someone do that? How does someone manage it to that level where they don't show it?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Well, the first thing you do is stop thinking about yourself. Look, you have a job to do and that job can be as simple as existing as a human being, as a male human being from day to day. You got a job to do and you, you get, you gotta stop thinking about how do I feel, you know? Oh my, you know, I'm, I'm have to get up early this morning. I think I'll cry the poor ass, you know, you, that's nonsense. You've got things to do. You have to face life. Life is not easy. War is not easy. Business is not easy. Doing what we're doing right now is not easy. But you have to make it that way. You have to make it, make the other person, the other people around you feel that it's easy.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  If you can do that and forget about yourself, I think you go a long way. You take a big step and the longer you do it and the more you see it as effective, the more you're training yourself. You're training yourself.

• 20:23Lewis Howes?

  Some muscle.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  That's right. Yeah.

• 20:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Okay. What are some things that people could do, you think, on a, on a daily basis or weekly basis to embrace that and starts optimizing that part of their life of fear not running them when they go to a job interview or to give a speech or presentation or whatever it is, so it doesn't rule them?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Back off and see the big picture. The big picture is that this job interview may be extremely important to you and I understand that and you may desperately need that job. But desperation is not what you need when you go in. Confidence is what you need when you go in. And, and you have to back off a bit from how you feel and the fact that you've got a pile of bills over here that have to get paid and they won't unless you get this job.

• 21:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  That's, that's pressure.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  I mean, that's got you in a vice here. But you have to back away from it and say, okay, I could go in and fall on my knees and start sobbing and, and say how badly I need this job, but is that who the guy wants?

• 21:23Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  No, he doesn't want that sobbing mess of goo on his, on his floor there. He wants a guy who stands up and says, look, I've got problems. I've got to need to, I need to solve them and I'm asking you to give me a hand so that I can solve them and more importantly, so that I can help you solve your problems. Once again, it's not thinking so much about yourself. And it's hard to do. We're brought up in a society where it's all me, me, me. You know, the sun rises and sets on your posterior. Well, no, it doesn't. And you have to back off, I think, a bit and see that and understand that. And it gives you a different perspective. And I think that perspective is what you carry into those tense situations.

• 22:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What would you say, what was his name again? Billy T. What would you say his name?

• 22:11Speaker 01

  T. Han, Bill T. Han.

• 22:13Lewis Howes?

  Bill T. Han, okay. So you said he was one of the most inspiring guys.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was one, there's been many.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  Been many. What would you say is the most courageous moment that you witnessed? For yourself and for someone else just around you where you're like, wow, that was a moment of extreme courage. I'm sure every moment is that, but...

• 22:29Speaker 01

  There have been so many, Louis. I mean, I've seen, I've seen young guys get up, guys that I thought were absolute duds. I mean, this clown, whoever he is, he's dead tomorrow. And he isn't because he'll come right out of his socks. When the chips are absolutely down, here he goes. You know, he's this, he's this 95-pound featherweight that, you know, you think, oh, he's useless. And suddenly he steps up.

• 22:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  And I've seen that 100 times. And when they do their magic, they're just magnificent when the guys get up and do that sort of thing. And what entertains me about it all is they're usually the guys you don't expect to do that.

• 23:14Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I've seen the, I've seen the big guys, the horses.

• 23:18Lewis Howes?

  Get scared.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen them fall. So it's, what that means is it's really the heart. It's really how much character you've got and how much, how that's been developed.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  The hardships you've endured that make you that rock-solid character when the time comes.

• 23:36Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, what do you think is more important, emotional strength or physical strength?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Clearly emotional strength. You have to have it. You can get by without a great deal of physical strength. Usually if you're smart.

• 23:48Lewis Howes?

  Because anyone with a gun, you know.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if you're smart, you don't, and you don't have a lot of physical strength, you don't pursue tasks or trades that require that sort of thing. But every task or trade requires emotional strength. You've got to be able to face hardship, and you've got to be able to back off from that hardship and say, "Look, this, nobody's going to get killed, but I have to make the right decision, and I have to be brave, and I have to be strong." There's other people that may be depending on you. And that's what you have to look at. The hell with you. Think about your wife, or your girlfriend, or your brother, or your sister, or your mom, or your dad. Those folks are depending on you. And if you

• 24:32Speaker 01

  weenie out, there it is. You've got to step up and have that emotional strength.

• 24:38Lewis Howes?

  Right. As someone who was in the military for so long, was it hard moving from, you know, being a soldier to being an actor for you? Was it a challenge?

• 24:47Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:49Lewis Howes?

  Or was this like, "This is so easy"?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Well, the answer is, look, leading is, in many cases, teaching. Whether it's by example, or whether it's formal instruction, you're responsible for motivating other people and getting them to do something they might otherwise not do and want to do it. And I always thought of the teachers who did that for me, and the coaches who did that for me. And I thought, you know, what they're doing is they're standing up there and they're performing. That's a performance. And I put that together. And I was always a great teacher in the Marine Corps, because I understood that. I understood that in order to grab you by the stacking swivel and make you pay attention, and make you like what you're

• 25:36Speaker 01

  hearing, I have to bring a smile to your face. You have to say, "You know what? This guy's an idiot, maybe, but he's fun, and I'm learning whatever the hell he's telling me here."

• 25:45Lewis Howes?

  I'm entertained.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so I kind of applied that. And I think, I think I had a grounding as a, as an actor, from that sort of experience. So when, when people decided, you know, they wanted me to go in front of the camera. I said, well, wait a minute, I'm not sure. These guys have all been to film school and they've all been to, you know, I'm just, I'm just me. And the neat thing was that that's really all they wanted me to be. They weren't asking me to play the homosexual hairdresser or anything like that. You know, they, they wanted me to be the guy I am.

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  Play your role, yeah, yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  So I ended up as the most typecast guy in Hollywood, and that's fine. And, and you know, I've, I've often thought I wanted to, I've had a few roles that have stretched me out of that, out of that comfort zone. But most directors say, oh, get me that guy, that white haired military guy, you know, and have him do this. And so the roles have come very easily to me. Occasionally, I'll get one that's a stretch, and, and I love to do comedy and that sort of thing. I've got a great sense of humor, or a sense of irony, anyway. And so I, I look for those roles that take me out of typical typecasting. But, but it, it hasn't been hard for me, no.

• 27:04Lewis Howes?

  Now, today, there's a lot more women who are joining the military, right?

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:08Lewis Howes?

  What is that like? And did you have, did you experience that when you were there with women, a lot of women coming through? Then or no? When did it start happening?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. I've, I always, in most of the units that I had, there were women there. And they were good, solid gals.

• 27:26Lewis Howes?

  How do you experience that, handling, you know, men and women in, in combat and in the military?

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Well, you don't have them in, I didn't have them in combat. I've had them in training. And you, you have to approach men and women differently, and that has to do with how we're socialized.

• 27:42Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Women have different buttons that you need to push to get them to do what you want to do than men do.

• 27:49Lewis Howes?

  What are those buttons to protect men?

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Well, you can, you can make a certain emotional appeal to them, that they'll, they will assimilate more easily than a man will. At least, men that are normally socialized, as we understand it.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  In general, yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. The, the thing that bothers me, and has always bothered me, and I think will continue to bother me until we wake up. Both in the military and in society in general is, look, I'm all for equality and I'm all for women being given every opportunity to do everything they're capable of doing. But we ignore the 800-pound gorilla in the room. And that is that if you take the military, for instance, we've got teenagers, essentially, men and women, with raging hormones, and we put them together in a confined situation and we expect nothing is gonna happen.

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Wrong answer. It's gonna happen, and that induces...

• 28:49Lewis Howes?

  Sexually, even.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:51Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Romatically, even, if there's no sexual component to it. And that induces tension.

• 28:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  And if you're in the military, that induced tension can be dangerous, and it can be harmful. Look, and I guess that gets back to what I was talking to you a little earlier about. We have roles and missions in society, and we have to eventually come to a decision about what those roles and missions need to be. Now, I'm quite happy with the standard roles for men and the standard roles for women. But if we're gonna mix, shuffle the deck and mix the cards, then we better pay attention to that 800-pound gorilla, 'cause he's there.

• 29:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  And, you know, unless something happens to the human race, he's gonna be there.

• 29:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. This is a fascinating topic, and I'm trying to figure out which, where I wanna really dive in with you on this, because you have so much experience in this. I'm first curious about your emotional experience. Being in the military, did you feel like you were able to express yourself emotionally in any way? Or did you feel like you have to hold back? Whether, you know, not in combat, but just in general? Or did you feel like you weren't allowed to do, express certain things, how you're feeling, or fears, or cry? Or was there anything that you felt like you had to hold back on?

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Well, yes, certainly there was. Is... Is overt displays, are overt displays of emotion applauded in the military? No, they're not. Are they there? Yeah, they are. Sure, they are. We're human beings. And we have an emotional side. And those emotions are gonna come out in certain instances. Do you have to be guarded about it? Yeah, you do. And I think the more you get into a confined situation like the military, the harder it becomes. Because you, those emotions are in there and they're boiling. And you want to.

• 30:56Lewis Howes?

  You gotta do something with it, right?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can be anger, it can be sorrow, it can be any of the gamut of human emotions. But you've got to, you've got to express them guardedly. You can't become...

• 31:07Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean by that?

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Well, you can't become a blubbering mess on the, on the ground.

• 31:11Lewis Howes?

  Right, every day.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  You know, lay there and kick your feet and say, "I'm unhappy." You know? That's not gonna work. And it shouldn't work. That's unmanly.

• 31:18Lewis Howes?

  Right. Okay.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  And, and it's, it's round on and it should be.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  What about women expressing that?

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Same thing.

• 31:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  If, if they're in a confined military environment, a very structured military environment, or a very structured business environment for that matter, I don't, I don't think becoming a blubbering mess and, you know...

• 31:40Lewis Howes?

  In that setting.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and sitting there crying and, and, you know, being overly emotional. I, I think that's counterproductive.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  What is productive for people? When they're going through extreme sadness, or, or guilt, or anger, that their best friend just got killed, or something happened that is unfair, or whatever they're feeling, what is a good situation for them to express that? In the, in the military setting?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Well, you, you have to call on an inner strength, Louis. You have to say, "I'm, I'm destroyed here. I'm terribly sad. Something has happened that is just ripping the hell out of my emotions."

• 32:17Speaker 01

  But is it productive at this point for me to just sit here with my

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  Give up.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Face in my hands and cry? Or is it more productive? And is it a better mark of character? If I'm able to deal with this? If I'm able to keep my emotions in check? Now, in check doesn't necessarily Manageable. That's right. Manageable.

• 32:41Lewis Howes?

  Not expressing yourself.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  You've got a hold on them.

• 32:43Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  You know, you're not going to go throw yourself off of balconies.

• 32:46Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. You're still expressing them in some way, but not letting fully go.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think human beings recognize that. I mean, we all have these emotions. And they can, they will recognize that you're dealing with them and that you're holding them. And they'll have empathy. I think, I think there's a lot more empathy than we give people credit for.

• 33:09Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I can tell if you're angry or if you're sad. And I'll know what not to say. I won't go in there and dig around and push that button. Because I know what you're dealing with. And I respect you for dealing with it. In a proper manner and dealing with it internally.

• 33:24Lewis Howes?

  And so how do you have compassion for someone? Or how did you during those experiences? Would you, was there physical affection? Was there just talking to them?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Sure there was.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Or was there?

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, many times.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Sometimes you just reach over and touch a guy. And all it means is I'm here. And I understand. And I'm feeling what you're feeling, pal. But we got to deal with this. That's, sometimes that's all that's required. Sometimes it's a look. You're about to embark on something that's dangerous or something that's, that you fear. Something that's making you antsy. Something that's making you nervous. And you look at another person and you just nod. And that's that empathy, that human empathy. I know what you're feeling. I know what you're going through. I'm here too. Let's do it.

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  What was it like for you transitioning out? Were you able to, did you feel like you were able to open up your emotions more? Did you kind of keep the same managing, managing process of emotions from being in the military to now out of it?

• 34:23Speaker 01

  I, I was so well trained. That it was, it was difficult for me. It's, it's difficult for me as an actor when, when someone says, you know, I need, I need a big show of emotion here. I say, well, that's not me. I wouldn't do that.

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  And then, but on the other hand, this guy's just hired me to do that. So I have to find a way to do it. And it, it has to do with touching baggage. We've all had horrible things that happened to us in our life. You know, losing a parent or losing a spouse or hell, losing your dog, you know, these things are, these things.

• 35:05Lewis Howes?

  Painful.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Scar us emotionally and, and they're, and they're painful. So if, if I'm in that situation, that's what I do. I take a minute and I go to that place where that pain was. And I try to remember that. And it, if you're lucky, it comes through your eyes and, and people will see, at least they'll see enough to become empathetic. Okay. I know what he's feeling.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  And that's about all I can do.

• 35:32Lewis Howes?

  That's it, huh?

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What do you feel like your life would be like if you didn't go in the military?

• 35:37Speaker 01

  I have no idea. I would probably be, you know, down on Skid Row somewhere.

• 35:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  I, I don't know. I haven't, my life has been so eventful and so lucky and that I haven't really contemplated that question. I'm, I'm kind of afraid to because I have no idea.

• 35:59Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  What would have happened. I don't think it probably would have been good.

• 36:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay. What was the, was there a moment in combat where you felt like, I may not make it out of this or this, you know, this is, this might be it. Like this is the dumbest decision we're about to make right now. Like, I don't know if we should do this, but we're told to, so we're going to go in. Who knows? It's a, you know, 50/50 chance.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  I think everybody that's been in combat has felt that.

• 36:25Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Nothing seems real smart when you're getting shot at.

• 36:30Lewis Howes?

  Those bullets round, let's go back, guys.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Wait a minute. Maybe we should.

• 36:34Lewis Howes?

  Go back to the bunker.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  I think, I think I've felt that many times, Louis. I think anybody that's been in combat has felt that. You know, there, when that. Round snaps by your ear and it's so close you can actually hear it break the sound barrier, you know, and, or you get hit and, and you suddenly look down and you're bleeding and oh my god, I'm still alive, you know, it's, uh, those are moments that, that imprint deeply. Like a foot over, could have been over. Oh yeah, closer than that, you know, inches. Oh my goodness. And you realize that, um, you know, you're, you're playing for keeps here. This is not a game. There's no take two here. Wow.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  So, uh, you, you feel those things and I, I think that goes back to the business of conquering the fear that we talked about. Um, the fear is there, but you have to manage it. You know, you, you have to say, okay, he missed me. And I've got a couple of options here. Number one, I can, I can fall flat on my face and never move again and hope he doesn't see me, or I can kill him and reduce the chance that he'll ever, that he'll get a second shot. And, and that's what you do, um, if, if you've got it under control. How many times were you shot? Um, well, if you include shrapnel and various things from high explosives, three times. Three times. Actually more than that, probably four or five, but. But three Purple Hearts for being injured.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, when, those are the ones where they have to bandage you up and haul you out. Wow. What was the worst, worst one? Oh, I don't know. Um, I got hit in the head pretty badly. Um, there was a round that, uh, hit the rim of my helmet and split and, uh, got me up on the eye and that one was, uh, that was dicey. Took you out of the helmet off. Well, yeah, you know, you think you're gonna lose your eye. Right. Um, but you know, I, in the end, um, I think the fact that I survived them is, is really the, what gets down to it. I mean, you were so happy that you've survived, that the injury doesn't mean that much, you know, that comes later. You're just so grateful you're alive. Yeah, right. Wow.

• 38:53Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think you were, you know, didn't die? All these different experiences. I'm assuming there's a number of people around you that you went through the years that didn't make it. Why do you think your life was spared?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  You know, that's one question that I do contemplate every once in a while. And I like to contemplate it because it leads me to celebrate the fact that I did make it. And I have succeeded. I've succeeded to an extent that a lot of people don't. I've had a really good life, a really rich life, and got to do wonderful weird things. My life has been anything but humdrum. And I think back on those occasions when I got hurt, or when I got hit, or when I got terribly disappointed by this, that, and the other sort of thing. And again, that's backing off and taking a look at perspective, you know, and say, why am I worried about that?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  You know, yeah, I got nicked a little bit here. I got whacked, but look what happened. I don't know why. You know, the Lord chose me to be the guy who makes it here, but he did, and there you go. And I think those are things that help you put life in context. You know, you know that life can be cheap. And you know that your success is something that you paid for. You went a long, hard road. And I think that makes you, if you're smart, it makes you appreciate what you've got.

• 40:30Lewis Howes?

  Of course. What was it like with, did you have a girlfriend when you were in combat in Vietnam? Or were you married?

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:39Lewis Howes?

  What was that like? Was it challenging?

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Well, it was devastating. It cost me that marriage.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Which probably in the end was a good thing because neither one of us were old enough or mature enough to really make much out of it. Yeah, the whole business of going home to the girlfriend and the hearth and so on and so forth, that's on your mind and that's an added pressure. It's just one of the things you have to deal with.

• 41:10Lewis Howes?

  Well, how has the military, I guess, shaped you or affected you in relationships after the military? I mean, have you been able to, you know, build, really, positive relationships?

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's smartened me up. You know, I went through a couple of marriages and some of them ended because I was an idiot and some of them ended because it just wasn't right. And then eventually you get old enough and I think your judgment matures and you find the right person and that person has such great similarities. You're so simpatico with that person that it's a natural fit and it works out. It has for me.

• 41:53Lewis Howes?

  That's good. So now you've found a good fit.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:57Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  My wife's a great gal.

• 41:59Lewis Howes?

  Okay, awesome. If you could go back and talk to your 20-year-old self is me right now.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:06Lewis Howes?

  And you could tell him about what it means to be a man and knowing everything that you did from stuff in the military with other guys to relationships you had with people to whatever happens, what would you tell him about being a man? What does it mean? And if you could kind of give him your list or definition or speech that would inspire him to grow up and maybe change some of the things that you didn't do, what would you say?

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Well, it would be a very long conversation.

• 42:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  And it would be one-sided.

• 42:38Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  He'd listen, I'd talk.

• 42:40Lewis Howes?

  Okay, well, I'm listening.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  But I think I'd say this, you know, look, you have a role in life. That role has been given to you because you were born with a certain set of genitals and a certain emotional makeup. There's nothing you can do about that. That's a good thing. Don't fool with it. And you're growing up in a society that has a certain Judeo-Christian ethic. That ethic has been good for all societies who've adopted it. So, play your role.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Your role is to be a provider, a defender, a teacher. And your role is to step up in the hard times. Now, that's gonna take some doing. It's gonna take some thinking. It's gonna take some courage. But you need to do it. And if you will do it, in the hardest of times, your life will be rewarding. No matter how many troubles you go through, no matter how many hard times, no matter how many emotional pits you fall into, if you'll step up and remember that you have

• 44:03Speaker 01

  this role and that you must perform in that role, your life will be rewarding. And don't let anything pull you off that track.

• 44:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Because there are people out there who will try to do that. All you've got to do is look around at our society today. The roles of men and women, they're confused right now. And I think that leads to a certain chaos in our society. Those natural roles that go back into the deep, dark mysteries of time, when Og had to crawl out of the cave and go kill the woolly mammoth to feed little Mrs. Og and all the little Og's who were back in the cave back there. Those roles are okay. That's all right. And you have that role.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  You are the guy who goes out and kills the woolly mammoth.

• 45:00Lewis Howes?

  What if that role doesn't resonate with someone? What if there's a young man growing up who's like, "That doesn't feel right to me, or I don't feel like that's who I am."

• 45:11Speaker 01

  I would say you're doing way too damn much feeling. Okay, okay. And not enough thinking. Okay. Look, I'm not, I'm not saying that you have to, you have to be the guy who sharpens the stick and stabs the woolly mammoth. There are other things to do, but you can't simply back away from your role and mission in society. Right. What about Mrs. Person who comes into your life? What's that relationship gonna be? Is there, is there a structure for that relationship? Well, there should be, especially if there are children that come into it. So you're saying if the roles are confusing, then it's gonna be hard to have structure? Yeah, it is. More chaotic, more challenges, more problems. The lack of structure breeds chaos.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  And if you wanna, if you want chaos, have at it, but your life is not gonna be rewarding. Your life is gonna be chaos. So, structure. Yeah. Creates more harmony. Structure is important to human beings. Especially in the military, I'm assuming, without structure. Yeah, of course. But it's, it's important. In life. Outside the military. It's important in life that we have certain structures, that we have certain roles and missions. And why we fight those is beyond me. It really is beyond me. Why do you think people are fighting it so much more now today than ever? I'm, I'm hoping that it's a knee jerk.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Look, we, as a society, we've made a lot of mistakes, and they're easy to pinpoint. Slavery is one. The lack of equal opportunity for females in our society, that's, that's another one. The denigration of females in our society by males in our society. These are, these are things that we've done badly. And because we've done them badly, I think over the years, over the decades, there, there's, there's now a knee jerk. And that threatens to take us over a precipice that we should be fearful of.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  I just, I think that's the sort of thing that creates chaos in a society, and it shouldn't.

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  What would you say if you were going back to your 20-year-old self, and you're, and he was asking you, you know, when I get married, what should my role be in a marriage? Like, how should I be there for my wife? How should I, just how should I show up in general? In hard times, crazy times, when she's acting like this, how should I show up? When I'm uncertain, how should I show up? What would you say, just for general?

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Well, I think your role should be as a provider. I think your role should be as helpmate. Notice I don't say dominator, I said helpmate. Your role should be as an empath. You have to understand what's going on, and that's difficult. That's a hard thing, because we're not wired the same way. If we were wired the same way, okay, but we're not. Nor are we socialized in the same fashion. And so I think you have to be a spouse. And that includes being a provider, a helpmate, an understanding partner.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  But you still have a certain role that demands you to step up and be a man.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm hearing the common theme of the roles. Yeah, okay.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Roles and missions. I mean, it's the old military thing. We have a role and life to play, and the mission is to make that life productive. And make that life something more than just me and myself.

• 48:56Lewis Howes?

  Right. Hmm, this is fascinating stuff to me. I'm curious about... The things that men hide behind, the emotions that they hide behind, the masks that they hide behind in the military, do you feel like there was a place for you to communicate certain things ever? Or did you feel like you always had to hide behind and manage these emotions and only just get the look or the touch or the, you know, the whatever it was, you know, a little bit here and there? Was there ever a place to really show, express what you're truly feeling?

• 49:33Speaker 01

  I think, I think you develop, if you're a half-assed good person, I think you develop friends. I think you develop, you develop close friends.

• 49:43Lewis Howes?

  Behind the scenes, you're able to.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and I've, you know, you go and have a beer and you say, hey, you know, this is really screwing me up here.

• 49:51Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  And he says, yeah, I got it. And, and you talk about it. And there's no expectation between you. That's what a friend really is. He's not demanding of you to feel one way or feel another way. He's your pal, he's your buddy, or she is. And you can just say, look, this has got me, this has got me up against the rails here. I don't know what I'm doing. And they, they're not, they're not going to say, well, then you're clearly a weenie.

• 50:19Lewis Howes?

  Suck it up.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, they're, they're going to say, okay, I got it, you know? And that's all you really need.

• 50:24Lewis Howes?

  And did they coach, did they have any training on this? Cause I'm assuming that this is a challenging thing for people.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  I don't think so. I think, I think it's a human thing. And I think it transcends the military structure. You make very, very close friends. When you train with the men extremis, when you serve with the men extremis, you, you become very close. And sometimes you don't even need all the conversation. You know, the conversation is superfluous.

• 50:52Lewis Howes?

  You just don't understand each other.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Extraneous. Yeah. You just go.

• 50:56Lewis Howes?

  I feel you.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  And you get it.

• 50:58Lewis Howes?

  I feel you. Okay. Okay. Final few questions for you. What's your definition now of masculinity? What do you think the definition is?

• 51:09Speaker 01

  I suppose masculinity is a task.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  That falls upon those of us who have a certain number of chromosomes. And I think it is our task to recognize that and recognize its value. Not beat our chests and scream and yell and say, you know, we are the conquerors of the world, but to understand that we have certain responsibilities that come along with our sex. And to preserve those roles within our society to avoid chaos. That's as succinct as I can be.

• 51:55Lewis Howes?

  What would you say is your definition of feminine?

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Well, feminine to me is always going to mean nurturing. It's always going to mean the instinct to mother, the instinct to provide for the continuity of our society. And that's a wonderful thing. That's a mission that if you're a smart man, you envy. The business of bearing a child, the business and all the physical complications therein involved. But the business of nurturing that child, the business, because mothers, all of our

• 52:37Speaker 01

  mothers, I think, good, bad, or indifferent, have a massive imprint on their children. It's always mom that you seem to remember. I mean, dad was this, but then there's mom. And it's that nurturing spirit that's wired into females, or most females, most that I've met, and I've met a bunch, that I think makes them very special creatures and enviable in a society.

• 53:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Do you feel like men should embody feminine qualities or feminine energy ever in any situations? Or should it be strictly masculine only, or?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Listen, I wish that I had half of the energy that I've seen in some women. It's amazing. And it's to be admired.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  I don't know. Can we, can, can males ever completely emulate that? I don't know that they should want to. I think there's a yin and a yang. And, and I think it's wonderful when that yin and yang comes together because they, they tend to make a great whole, a very strong, uh, uh, structure.

• 53:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  A very strong relationship. Uh, I think, I think you, you may work and fail and work and fail and work and fail to find that yin and yang. But when you do, you should recognize it and understand that, that there's a, there's the other half.

• 54:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  There's the part that's missing and you should celebrate that.

• 54:07Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's cool. That's cool. Okay. Um, final few questions for you. What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Well, I'm, I'm grateful that I've had 25 years of success in show business. I mean, that's good Lord.

• 54:23Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty good, a long time.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and if you go back further than that, I'm grateful I survived some of the dumbass things I did in my life. Uh, but I'm, I'm very grateful lately, since I've been getting old and long in the tooth. Uh, I'm grateful that I've, I've had an influence on people's lives. I mean, I, I love it when the actors I've trained, um, you know, always want to talk to me and they call me at two o'clock in the morning, half drunk and want to know what to do because they've had an argument with their girlfriend. Look, that's irritating, but, but it, it says to me that I've influenced their lives in some way. Um, that I've helped, that I've, I've gotten away from myself and worried about other people

• 55:06Speaker 01

  and, and helped them maybe get a little grip on, on what they do in life. So I think, I think, um, you know, I, I was thinking about it the other day. There, there was a, a reporter for Daily Variety or, or some showbiz paper that, uh, or some showbiz publication that, um, uh, was doing a story on me after, I think it was after Platoon, uh, in fact. And at the end of the story, it said that, well, if nothing else, Dale Dye has changed the way Hollywood makes war movies. And I've always thought, you know, that that may be a great epitaph. Because I've been able to touch so many people in my life, both in uniform and out of uniform,

• 55:51Speaker 01

  and make a kind of a difference in the way they see things. I've had, I've had young actors call me and say that after going through the training that I put them through, and the education that I gave them in the time that I was with them, that their entire perspective on life changed. And that's, that's pretty heady stuff. I mean, so I guess, I guess what, what really pleases me is that I've, I've lived a life that has had a positive effect on some folks, as cliche as that sounds. Sure. I think that's really the deal. That's cool. And do you put the actors through bootcamps yourself, or some type of training? Oh, yeah. What's, what's it like? It's, it's tough. How long is it?

• 56:36Speaker 01

  It is compressed, well, it differs. Okay. It depends on how much time the producers will give me. Right, right, right. And it's isolated, and there's no phones, no agents, no nothing. You live in a hole in the ground, and you eat what I give you if you don't piss me off that day, and then if you do, you don't eat. Wow. And it's very, very rugged physically. I'm going to grind you down to the lowest common denominator, so that I can then begin teaching. So all that's on your mind is how you survive that white haired demon. SOB, yeah, yeah. And then, I've got you. I can teach you. Wow. I can show you that there is something, you know, young actors, and it's, it's a little bit sad.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Young actors, because of the nature of what they're trying to do, they grow up thinking that the sun rises and sets on their butt, you know what I mean? It's all about me, me, me, me, me. How's my hair? And how many lines have I got in this scene? You know, and that's the antithesis of the way we think in the military. Sure. The absolute opposite. So I try to give them a little different perspective, that it's not all about you, pal. It's about what this project, this mission that we're doing, and you need to see it in that perspective. Bigger than you, yeah. Yeah, it's bigger than you. Are you allowed to share some of the actors that you've put through the bootcamps? Oh, you've, you know, you- Who are some of the big names? Oh, yeah, there's Tom Cruise and-

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Tom Berenger and Tommy Lee Jones and Sam Jackson and

• 58:05Lewis Howes?

  You put them all through training?

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:07Lewis Howes?

  Well, some of them days or weeks or some just wow.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Depends. I mean, if you look at Platoon, when we did that back in 1985, I guess, we had 33 actors in the field. You never would have known who Charlie Sheen was. You never would have known who Tom Berenger was. You never would have known who Willem Dafoe was.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  You know, those Johnny Depp, we had him.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Forest Whitaker and these guys went on to become huge.

• 58:43Lewis Howes?

  Stars.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Stars.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  And I always look at it that way. You know, what I think what I give them

• 58:54Speaker 01

  stands them in very good stead when they go on. They always tell me that, you know, they they look at roles differently, roles that they're offered. They, they often call me when they're, you know, if the young actors who are still auditioning for things and who aren't big stars yet, you know, they'll call me and say, Skipper, how should I, how should I do this and how should I do that? And, you know, I try to provide some information if I can, if I've got the context. And, and those things lead me to believe that, that what I've been able to do with them is valuable.

• 59:29Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's cool. That's really powerful. This is a question I ask at the end for everyone. It's called the three truths.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:37Lewis Howes?

  The three truths. So, let's say it's the last day for you many years from now.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:42Lewis Howes?

  And you get to write down on a piece of paper, the three things you know to be true about everything in your life that you've experienced and all, all the things you've gone through, crazy, good, bad. Three final things that you would share your message to the world. What would those three truths be?

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Life is hard, but it's also good. Stick with it and don't give up. Love bigger than you hate. And never

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  stick anything larger than your elbow in your ear.

• 1:00:16Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:00:19Lewis Howes?

  I want to take a moment before I ask the final question, I want to take a moment to acknowledge you.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Well, thanks.

• 1:00:23Lewis Howes?

  For your service, incredible service on all walks of life for serving, obviously, this country for many years, the highest level, but also serving so many people to get a real depiction of what it was like. Because we'll never fully know unless we're there.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  That's the reason I do it, Louis.

• 1:00:40Lewis Howes?

  We'll never know.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  I want you to get some taste of what those young men and women are going through for you and for this country. And you're welcome because you're worth it.

• 1:00:49Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate that, yeah. Well, thank you. And I want to acknowledge you for that, for all that you've done. So it means a lot to me. Before I ask the final question, where can we connect with you personally? Online or the websites, are you on social media?

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah. It's, I've been interested, I guess I can ramble a bit here.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  You know, there aren't always war movies for us to do. So I've expanded my company. We've done things like music videos, we've done things like themed entertainment for theme parks. And I started a publishing group. I started a publishing house, which has just gone great guns now. And it's designed to tell military stories and publish military books so that otherwise folks wouldn't, wouldn't find anyplace else. And the reason I do it, the agenda that I had when I started all this 25 years ago was simply to let people like you, who don't have the experience,

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  get a little look at who those men and women in uniform are and what they feel and how they think and what they do. So I've, I've done everything I can, either in books or electronic media or, or showbiz, movies and television. I've done everything I can to advance that agenda. And I can't remember what your original question was.

• 1:02:15Lewis Howes?

  The website and social media, yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  Which is warriorsinc, I-N-C, warriorsincorporated.com and warriors publishing group. And you can find all this stuff there.

• 1:02:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, all the books are up there. You have like 20, 30 books up there. So yeah, it's cool. And are you on social media too or no?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Uh, I, yes, I'm on, uh, you know, I have yet to tweet.

• 1:02:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, I don't like the word.

• 1:02:38Lewis Howes?

  All right.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  It sounds, it sounds strange to me.

• 1:02:41Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Why am I tweeting? I don't want to tweet.

• 1:02:45Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  So anyway.

• 1:02:46Lewis Howes?

  So best way to what?

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  But I'm, but I'm on Facebook.

• 1:02:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  And that sort of thing.

• 1:02:49Lewis Howes?

  Okay, awesome. We'll have it all linked up for your, for everyone on the show notes here.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  They could have called it anything but tweet.

• 1:02:57Lewis Howes?

  Could have called it chat or something, right?

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, something, anyway.

• 1:02:59Lewis Howes?

  Something else, okay. Uh, final question for you.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:03:01Lewis Howes?

  Is what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  I think greatness is living a life that's not so self-centered and going through life with the understanding that you are your brother's keeper and you do have an obligation to help when and where you can, and you should go out of your way to do that. If you, if you can just do those things, you're great.

• 1:03:32Lewis Howes?

  Dale, thank you so much for the conversation.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Sure, my pleasure.

• 1:03:37Lewis Howes?

  Thank you all so very much for listening and for connecting and sharing this episode out. If you haven't shared it yet, please do, lewishouse.com/364, or just click on the share button on the podcast app or right on the website. Also, check out the full video interview back on the show notes as well. Let me know what you guys thought. I want to get your feedback. For me, I thrive off of hearing your comments and hearing what happened for you, what opened up for you, what you learned about this. Did you agree with Captain Dale Dye on his message and some of his points? Or do you disagree? Let me know. Share with me so I can feel it out and, uh, and hear what you have to say. I'm all about hearing what you have to say.

• 1:04:20Lewis Howes?

  So, we've got some big interviews coming up, massive ones. I'm super pumped about each and every guest and the perspective they bring. We do this every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So if this is your first time here, then thank you and congratulations. Let me know if this is your first episode over on Twitter and subscribe to the podcast over on iTunes. I am so blessed. And grateful to be able to interview these incredibly inspiring guests. And I couldn't do it without you. So thank you very much for all that you do to show up every Monday, Wednesday and Friday when we release these episodes. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.