344 The Art of Gift Giving with John Ruhlin

"You'll never regret giving more than is reasonable." - John Ruhlin If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/344 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is episode number 344 with John Ruhlin.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to today's episode. And one of the main questions I continue to get as an online entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker, as a top podcast host, is how do you build your online business? How did you start out, Lewis, with just an idea on your sister's couch? And build a multimillion dollar business and continue to get in the press and continue to bring in more revenue streams and continue to get more attention? And continue to build your audience? How do you do this? And how do I do it for myself? This is the question I get from so many of you. You want to learn about building an online business. And we just released a free, brand new video series that's going to show you every step of the way.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  Go to lewishouse.com/legacy. That's right, lewishouse.com/legacy to get the free video series. It's going to help you build your empire, grow your brand, generate more leads, more sales, and build that online business around the thing you love doing the most. Again, lewishouse.com/legacy. Go there right now. Sign up. It's 100% free, free video series. Make sure to go there right now. And for today's interview, we've got the incredible John Rulin. Now, for those who don't know who John is, he's kind of been under the radar for a while. And he got my attention many, many months ago, actually, when I was doing my book launch.

• 1:53Lewis Howes?

  He was really there for me in a big way. And John is ranked number one in sales in the 65 year history of Cutco, which is the largest US-made cutlery manufacturer in North America. And I'm sure most of you have heard of Cutco knives as, you know, my parents bought- Bought them back in the day. I have some of them myself. They're incredible knives and most households I feel like have seen them or have used them and continue to buy them. He's also the founder of the Ruland Group, which is regularly sought out to teach executives and sales leaders. In the pro sports, business and nonprofit world, the strategies and impact intentional appreciation can have on sales and culture. And this whole intentional appreciation thing is what he calls giftology.

• 2:38Lewis Howes?

  And that's the title of his new book, which is called Giftology. And some of the main things we cover here is how people's time is related to the gift you give them. How to turn a gift into an artifact that has real lifetime value. Why John hates the term token of appreciation and why you should never ever say it. How to choose the perfect gift for each individual. The formula to shock and awe the people you give gifts to and so much more. There is a whole science behind gift giving that I had no clue about. And wow, when he breaks it down for you in this interview, it starts to make sense. And you start to think about, man, I used to give out really bad gifts or they weren't intentional at all and

• 3:24Lewis Howes?

  wow, the impact of a really great gift, what it actually does for someone. What it will, you know, do for your business long term. And again, he talks about not giving gifts in order to hopefully get business in return. But actually that if you do it the right way, you're just going to continue to get more and more business because you're doing good things. You're putting out good things in the world. You're giving appreciation to other people. You're being thoughtful and intentional. And good things come back around to people that are thoughtful and intentional and go out of their way to give. So I am actually really excited for you guys to dive into this. Uh, for anyone that wants to understand gift giving in a big way, this is the interview. And if you know anyone who's a business owner, an entrepreneur, or someone in sales or marketing, or

• 4:10Lewis Howes?

  Uh, someone that just likes to give gifts, someone who's just always thoughtful and thinking about other people. Make sure to forward them this link, lewishouse.com/344. Do it right now because you're going to change their life. If they are a gift giver, or they in the world of sales, or getting customers, or getting referrals, this is going to be, this is literally going to transform their business and ultimately transform their life. Again, the link is lewishouse.com/344. It's the power of gift giving and how to give the greatest gift ever to anyone. So without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, John Ruhlin.

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm here with my man, John Ruhlin. Good to see you, brother.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  Thanks for having me.

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  Thanks for coming in. Now, you are currently, let me know if this stat's still true, you're currently ranked the number one in sales in the 65-year history of Cutco, Cutco Knives. Is that still true?

• 5:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, those knife people, yeah.

• 5:12Lewis Howes?

  No one broke it yet, huh?

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Not in, it's now 70 years, yeah.

• 5:15Lewis Howes?

  70 years, and you did this while you were going to university in Canton, Ohio?

• 5:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, Malone.

• 5:21Lewis Howes?

  So you broke the world, the world record for the sales, for sales in this company while going to school?

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's, but they had, they've had about a million distributors or interns come through.

• 5:31Lewis Howes?

  In 70 years?

• 5:32Speaker 00

  In 70 years.

• 5:33Lewis Howes?

  And you were the number one. Is this like number one in like a month span, like a day span, like a year, or what is this category?

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Um, in the history of the company.

• 5:41Lewis Howes?

  In the history, like you sold more in the history of the company than anyone else?

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Pretty silly.

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow. In, in a, and what period of time?

• 5:49Speaker 00

  Uh, it's like four years.

• 5:51Lewis Howes?

  Four years. No one who ever worked there has sold more. Did no one ever work more than four years?

• 5:58Speaker 00

  No, there's some people that have been doing it for 50 years, but.

• 6:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:01Speaker 00

  But.

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  They still haven't sold as much as you have in four years?

• 6:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So how much did you sell in those years?

• 6:07Speaker 00

  I don't go into the numbers.

• 6:08Lewis Howes?

  Okay. You sold millions?

• 6:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:10Lewis Howes?

  In volume, I'm assuming?

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  Millions.

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  Awesome, man.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's pretty, pretty crazy. I was, you know, pretty fortunate to have some mentors that taught me some things that completely, kind of like the blue ocean strategy. I was doing things in a different way, in a different quantity. So it really.

• 6:29Lewis Howes?

  You were unique. You were different. You stood out.

• 6:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, when you're hungry and you're getting ready to pay for med school and you're, you know, you grow up with a silver spoon in your mouth. It's amazing how that hunger, you know, gets the creative juices flowing.

• 6:42Lewis Howes?

  You're very creative. I like it, man. And some of the facts about you is you were gonna be a, you wanted to be a lawyer.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  Doctor.

• 6:49Lewis Howes?

  And or doctor.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  Either one.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, when you're poor and you get straight A's and you're an overachiever, those are the two things that seem like you can make the most money.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  Got it. Yeah, that's true, man. And another cool fact about you is you pay all of your employees to have their homes cleaned every other week. Is that still true?

• 7:05Speaker 00

  That's still true.

• 7:06Lewis Howes?

  Why? Why do you do that?

• 7:08Speaker 00

  Um, I think a lot of companies underestimate the value of of being creative with their dollars. And I think that when you can do things for people that they would never do for themselves, and it makes their quality of life easier. The, you know, we have a lot of working moms that have kids and one's a pastor's wife and and I found that when you take care of something like cleaning and laundry, they'd never hire their own housekeeper. And if you gave them the money, they'd spend it on

• 7:35Lewis Howes?

  Something else.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Something else, bills and whatever else. And so that money, it's, uh, one, they brag about it, but two, the the husbands love it because they're less stressed. The house is clean. Their life just operates easier. And so, I mean, I've shared that perk or benefit even when I spoke at like Google and people are like, we work at Google and we get a lot of cool stuff, but we don't get our houses cleaned every other week.

• 7:55Lewis Howes?

  They get a lot of other cool stuff, though. They get some other cool perks.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I guess it's amazing, but it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's one of those things I think that gives, it gives us a 10x return on on investment.

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. That's really cool. So how many people are on your team?

• 8:07Speaker 00

  Only eight.

• 8:08Lewis Howes?

  Eight. Yeah, yeah.

• 8:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:09Lewis Howes?

  So it's not like a thousand people or something?

• 8:10Speaker 00

  No, no, but I think every time we've added a person, as long as they're full time, like that's

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  That's the one of the perks.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  That's part of the package.

• 8:17Lewis Howes?

  It's like most people give a gym membership, you give cleaning service.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, it costs us fifteen to eighteen hundred dollars a person and and

• 8:23Lewis Howes?

  For the month or?

• 8:24Speaker 00

  For the year.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  Oh, for the year. That's it.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, cuz we go. We're not in LA anymore. That's right. You're in St. Louis.

• 8:29Speaker 00

  I'm in St. Louis in Ohio. I mean, a lot of our employees in Ohio. And so, yeah, that's

• 8:33Lewis Howes?

  It's a little cheaper over there.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  Dollars go a little further. It's one of the perks and benefits of being in the Midwest.

• 8:37Lewis Howes?

  Did a lot further.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  I like it, man. That's cool. And you came out with this new book. We met through, um, we met because you started emailing me, right?

• 8:46Speaker 00

  We met through Peter Vogt and we kind of reconnected at Mastermind Talks with Jason Gainer.

• 8:51Lewis Howes?

  Yes, and I had a book that came out, School of Greatness, about six months ago. And you said, hey, you gotta do some gifting for some of the bigger influencers who are helping you promote essentially, right?

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just offered you, I said, you probably got three or four people that went above and beyond. The first three or four, whether you do any gifting, let me, let me take care of them. I'll comp them.

• 9:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  And you said, talk to my girl Sarah.

• 9:13Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  She's the one that's actually making sure that all this gets done.

• 9:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  And we had a conversation. She's like, nobody's ever talked to me about gifting. I was planning on doing this, this and this and.

• 9:24Lewis Howes?

  Right. We were gonna give like some meats and you know, I used to get like steaks and like whatever iTunes gift cards or something. Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's like.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  So we didn't really know what to do for this type of thing.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  I don't think most people do. I think most people are, they're so busy running their business or they're so busy selling or leading their company or podcasts or, you know, interviewing Tony Robbins that.

• 9:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  Uh, gifting, you're probably not like, when you're, when the head hits the pillow, you're not thinking about gifting.

• 9:48Lewis Howes?

  What type of gift can I give somebody? Yeah. But the power of gifting is huge. And I'll give an example, a story. I, uh, I used to have a course years ago that was a thousand dollar online course. And I remember just feeling like, we gotta give people something like once they buy.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Tangible.

• 10:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, like something physical is an online course. Let's give them like, send them a thank you note, congratulations, whatever, but also like a gift, something. And at the time I was using, um, send out cards. You know, send out cards?

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:17Lewis Howes?

  And we would give them like a brownie package or some type of like cookies or whatever it was like $20 worth of a gift, right?

• 10:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:25Lewis Howes?

  Something like that. And a handwritten card and something else. And I remember someone emailed me one time saying, you know what? I was thinking about refunding this just because I wasn't using it. And, uh, not that the product was bad or anything, but that I wasn't using it. And I was just like, it's not for me because I'm not, I don't have time. But you know what? This gift you sent me like really, it stuck with me and it reminded me how like good of a person you are. And I appreciated it. And so I'm not going to refund anymore. So I was like, I saved a thousand dollars.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  With a $20 investment.

• 10:53Lewis Howes?

  A $20 investment.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  That's a 50x.

• 10:55Lewis Howes?

  Right? And so, and you don't know, like, if people are going to refund or for whatever reason, but giving is always going to be in your benefit if it's with, I didn't do it to be like, let's save refunds. You know, it was like, let's just do it because it's the right thing, or it's, it's something that I would want to experience myself.

• 11:13Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:14Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 11:14Speaker 00

  We all want to be treated VIP. We all want to be loved on. We all want to be treated special and

• 11:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  gifting is one of those ways that, yeah, we're all emotional human beings and it's amazing how that, that impacts people.

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  So then when did you start learning about gifting? Was this when you were doing the sales for Cutco?

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was. So I, I, um, yeah, I was pretty motivated. I was dating a girl at the time. Her dad was an attorney. And he was the kind of guy that all the deals seemed to flow his way and he never seemed to be in a hurry. He would take time for lunch and, and

• 11:46Lewis Howes?

  Relaxed.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  relaxed and he, but he owned parts of the bank and oil wells and the real estate that he bought, that all of a sudden, three years later magically became the big development in town.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  You're like, what?

• 11:54Speaker 00

  I'm like, what is going on here? But I also noticed when you're poor, you notice when people are generous. And so I started to see like, he would find deals on stuff like noodles and buy like everybody at church the next Sunday, like a year's supply of noodles. And I'm like, Paul, that was like 10 Gs of noodles.

• 12:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  He's like, I know, but they're just, people loved him. Did you see they light up? I'm like, yeah, you just gave him like a four boxes of these Amish made noodles. He's like, I know, but they, they needed it more than I do.

• 12:16Lewis Howes?

  People, Amish is big in Ohio, just to let you know.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  It's the largest Amish community in the world, right?

• 12:21Lewis Howes?

  It's in Ohio. It's like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana. I think it's

• 12:24Speaker 00

  Ohio, PA. Ohio's bigger.

• 12:25Lewis Howes?

  Ohio's bigger, right?

• 12:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:27Lewis Howes?

  I remember going down like, I don't know, just driving with my dad to like see his clients down like the farm, farmland on the, on the roads, two main roads. See like the buggy and, and the horse and carriage and just

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:38Lewis Howes?

  Amishville, man.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  I mean, it's legit, yeah.

• 12:40Lewis Howes?

  Get the Amish butters and like all the good foods. It was like the best food.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  And they're amazing craftsmen. They're

• 12:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  Half of my house is filled with furniture from there.

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Oh, it's amazing. Yeah, it's crazy.

• 12:50Lewis Howes?

  Great, like rocking chairs. I remember like wooden rocking chairs are like perfect.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. We've got the cutches and tables and furniture and leather and all kinds of stuff.

• 12:59Lewis Howes?

  Anyways.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  So, so, so I, I saw him. What I now call radical generosity. I saw him modeling it. So I went and pitched him the idea. I'm like, Paul, you have all these clients. You're always giving them things and why don't we do pocket knives? For your clients. I think we could engrave something on these cutco pocket knives.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're selling, you're selling.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm selling and, and he already bought a set for himself and his three daughters that weren't even married yet. So he bought like two grand worth of knives before. And I'm like, Paul, like this is amazing. He's like, I want to buy, I want to help you more, but I don't know what else I can buy. And so you never ask an entrepreneur.

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  He wanted to help you buy more, but he's like, I've bought them for everyone already.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so I went back and pitched him the pocket knives. He kind of leaned back in his chair. I remember it was like a Sunday morning before church and he's like, uh, he's like, how about the paring knives? Could you engrave those? I'm like, I got this like weird deer and headlights look on my face. Like you're going to give grown men paring knives. Like that's kind of weird.

• 13:49Lewis Howes?

  What are paring knives to educate me?

• 13:50Speaker 00

  Like, like a, like a peeling knife, like what you peel an apple with, like a little short, little.

• 13:54Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  And, uh, he's like, you're probably wondering why. And I'm like, yeah, that's weird. And he said, I found that if you take care of the entire family, everything else seems to take care of itself. And so is that.

• 14:04Lewis Howes?

  It's not for the man, it's for.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  It's for the family. And, uh, and he's like, I still see things I've given 30 years ago, still around the kitchen. He's like, I love things that go in the kitchen. And so what about the paring knives? And I'm like, I'll sell as many paring knives as you want. Like, sure. So we started, I started to realize that it wasn't about the paring knife. It was a delivery vehicle for building this relationship and it's now what we call an artifact. It's, it's something that if you give somebody something and you do it the right way, it becomes every time they see it, it's like the knife in your kitchen. Like you're reminded of the dinners, the experiences, the podcasts, the whatever, and it's a trigger. And Paul was amazing. He was always top of mind for that phone call because everybody was always thinking about him because of his generosity. And so I started to not.

• 14:46Lewis Howes?

  So he got all the deals.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  He got all the deals.

• 14:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  And he was not doing it with strings attached. Like he would sometimes gift somebody and I would see it come back to him like, you know, like he'd done it 20 years prior and all of a sudden like this opportunity came up and I'm like, Paul, how did that happen? And he's like, well, you know, I just stayed in touch and you know, I'm like, and he's a, and he actually grew up, he was Amish. So he spoke the language and he, they left the Amish church when he was nine. And then he ended up going straight from, he got his GD, didn't go to high school, went straight into college, became a teacher and then went to law school.

• 15:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  And, uh, was helping, he was a great attorney, but really he was a connector.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  In that area, like he just knew everybody knew what was going on and everybody picked up the phone and just loved Paul. And I'm like, I, nobody is teaching this gifting like. There's order takers like Harry and David. Hey, you want a basket with nuts in it or chocolate? Like, everybody's just order taking. Nobody was actually teaching this strategy of what we call strategic gifting. And so I started to use the gifting to get access to people. I started to use the gifting to to help companies open doors and referrals and all these different things. And so that was, that's why I sold so much because I'd go into a company, I wouldn't say, hey, Mr. Jones, would you like a set of knives for your kitchen? I would say, you have 100 sales reps. How are they? Are they generating all the referrals you want? Are you getting the leads that you want to get? Are you getting the, if I could accelerate your sales cycle by an

• 16:07Speaker 00

  extra six months, you could get into that door faster. Your sales guys, what would that be worth to you? Like, oh, my gosh, it'd be worth a half a million dollars to us. Well, now all of a sudden, 50 grand in knives is

• 16:17Lewis Howes?

  Nothing.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  Nothing.

• 16:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, interesting. So you're going in and helping them solve their problems as opposed to trying to sell knives.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  It's like anything else.

• 16:25Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  I mean, yeah, you could sell them. Yeah, you sell the product, you sell the solution.

• 16:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  And we realized very quickly, nobody gave two rips about knives.

• 16:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:34Speaker 00

  But they did care a lot about referrals and they did care a lot about access.

• 16:37Lewis Howes?

  Making money and

• 16:39Speaker 00

  Retention.

• 16:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I love it. We got a new book out called Giftology. And the cool thing is, this book came in a bag for those watching the video on YouTube. And if you're not watching the video on YouTube, make sure to subscribe to the channel, youtube.com/LouisHowes. But you told me you created these custom bags. The bag costs you $50. This thing is beautiful. And it's got a little string here and it's, you know, metal and leather. And then there's a book

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Handmade in St. Louis.

• 17:04Lewis Howes?

  Handmade in St. Louis. It's not Amish, but it smells pretty good. And then the book inside is beautiful as well. And this is just a galley copy, which most people don't even have hardback galley copies, which you have yourself. And I think it's beautiful. It's called Giftology, The Art and Science of Using Gifts to Cut Through the Noise. Increase referrals and strengthen retention and he's got a little knife there to cut through. It's cute. Um, but I love it, man. I love this principle of those concepts. You know, the law of reciprocity is something I learned about when I read, um, influenced by Robert Cialdini. And, um, a lot of marketers talk about the law of reciprocity, giving a free gift to have someone give you their email address, that type of thing. But a lot of people use it in like a spammy.

• 17:48Speaker 00

  Sleazy.

• 17:49Lewis Howes?

  Scammy way, yes. And, um, it's not authentic. It's not really premium. You know, I think of the way you do it. It's like a premium level of gifting. And so let's dive in more about that. I mean, why giftology? What's the, what's the title of giftology? What does it actually mean?

• 18:04Speaker 00

  Uh, well, giftology, I mean, it's, uh, when you're titling a book, you're like, gosh, there's, we looked at rattle with general. I'm sure you probably had the same thing. You look, look at a hundred different titles and we use book in a box. And I talked to Zach and Tucker and the guys and I'm like, here's a list of what I'm thinking of. And here I'm leaning towards this radical generosity. It just feels good at the heart level. And they're like, but nobody's going to know what that means.

• 18:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  And you're, at the end of the day, like, yes, it's all these solutions and strategic gifting, but you're a gifting expert. And you use gifting to deepen relationships, use gifting. So gift needs to be in the name. And people think of gifting as a warm, fuzzy, like it's a nice to not a have to, it's not a revenue generator. And the ology adds like, there's a science to this, like we're wired for reciprocity. We're wired, um, to, uh, to as emotional beings. And so I wanted to show people, yes, there's that warm, fuzzy, authentic side. But there also is this scientific, there's case studies, there's research that shows like, when you love on people well, that's why you take people out to dinner or to a ballgame. You know, when you, uh, when you deepen relationships, things happen.

• 19:08Lewis Howes?

  It's true.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  And things move forward. And so most people do the experiential side really well, but they, they suck at saying thank you.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  They do. And so you did this with book in a box, is that right?

• 19:19Speaker 00

  I did.

• 19:19Lewis Howes?

  Tucker, you know, Tucker launched book in a box on this podcast.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  Come on, no, I didn't.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  About a year and a half ago or two years ago, he was like, hey, man, can I come on? I got, I gotta share something I'm thinking about doing. And he was like, talked about it for the first time. He's like, here's an email, just email my personal email if you guys are interested. And like 15 people signed up for book in a box and he was in business the next day. And he did it a year later, he came back on and talked about it.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Did he know he was gonna do that? Or did you just ask a question?

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  He was like, I'm thinking about doing this. And so if you guys want it, like, here, email me.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  I'm just gonna throw it out there.

• 19:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and then a year later, he goes, I gotta come back on and talk about how your podcast made me a million dollars in this business. Because I wasn't, you know, it launched on your podcast. So anyways, it's cool that you're on, you did it.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, the book wouldn't have happened. I mean, I've been thinking about this for five years. And we had the ideas for a long time, but, but actually getting them out of my head onto paper and, and.

• 20:11Lewis Howes?

  It's challenging to write a book, man. That's a whole nother topic, but anyways, fun little fact there. Um, so let's talk about the law of reciprocity. Now, why is the law of reciprocity so powerful? Talk about this.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I think that, you know, you go back into like tribal times or biblical times, like, you know, people would, somebody would show you an act of kindness. Like, we're wired in our DNA to wanna reciprocate it back.

• 20:33Lewis Howes?

  Why is that, do you know?

• 20:35Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, depend upon your faith, Ben, or whatever else, I think that there's a lot of different angles you could take it with it. But I think that, um, we're psychologically, I think we just want to do nice things back. We wanna keep the scales even and we wanna take care of people. And so I think that there's that, that element.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  And I think that there's an element of, you know, when you give somebody a gift, every time they use it, they're reminded of that somebody did something nice for them. So there's that tangible element of a, a continuous reminder of wanting to even the scales.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  You know, I, I, I'm not a psychologist, so I, I, I can't, uh, I can't go into, uh, to all the different reasons. But I think that, uh, you know, it, the interesting thing is it's not a Western culture thing. It's, it's for the last 10,000 years, like.

• 21:19Lewis Howes?

  All over the world.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  All over the world, and you go back to like, you know, the Old Testament, like, a gift brings you, a gift ushers you into the presence of the great. That's a proverb.

• 21:27Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, that's good. I like the greats in there.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, and so, um, and so I think that, uh, it's, you know, it, it goes back thousands of years. It's not just a, it's just not a.

• 21:39Lewis Howes?

  And it's universal. It's not just like American culture or whatever.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  No.

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  Which I love. So you talk about time and why it's someone's most precious commodity. So how does gifting and playing with time and helping people?

• 21:51Speaker 00

  It's one of, like, it's part of my secret sauce. I think that a lot of times people, they're like, well, they'll wait for a referral to happen and that's when they send a gift. Like, then it becomes a tit for tat, like, hey, you did something for me and I have to immediately do something and it devalues.

• 22:04Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't feel authentic, right?

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Well, it's like, if, imagine if.

• 22:08Lewis Howes?

  It's like you have to give the gift.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's obligatory. And I think that, that when you, if you look at most executives, you're, you know, people, I hate the word, like, I want to pick your brain. I mean, how many times do you hear that?

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  All the time.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  All the time. And so basically what it basically means is I want your time for free.

• 22:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 22:22Speaker 00

  And so when, you know, when some.

• 22:24Lewis Howes?

  The worst.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  It's the worst. And so when somebody comes to me, or somebody comes, when I sit down with somebody, and I do this probably 200 to 300 times a year, I sit down with them. They're a potential client, they're a potential prospect, friend, whatever. An hour of their time is worth a hundred dollars an hour, five hundred dollars an hour, a thousand dollars an hour. So whether they ever refer me business, they gave me an hour that they could have spent with their kid, with their wife, on their business. So I say, thank somebody for their time. So I send out, you know, knives or whatever, and I thank them for carving out the time. I'll send them a $200 to $300 gift.

• 22:55Lewis Howes?

  I love you said carving out the time.

• 22:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a nice little tie-in. Thematically, people like that. But when you honor somebody's time and you don't ask for anything in return, you say, whether we ever do anything, you gave me 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 15 minutes, and the gift is no strings attached. And you're, it's not like, hey, let's get together again. Like, that's, most people ruin the gift.

• 23:15Lewis Howes?

  You recommend me now to whatever your clients.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, they want to put strings attached. And so I think when you honor somebody's time, I saw Paul do that all the time. Like, he would, after some, something happened, he would send them a nice note or a gift or whatever else. And so I started to do that as my standard practice. When I sit down with somebody, whether they're going to be a client or not, and it's amazing how all of a sudden 10 years later, that person comes back around and now they're, maybe at the time, they weren't even a relevant prospect or client or referral partner, but now they're at another company. Or now they started a podcast that blew up and three years later, it's got, you know, like you two and a half million downloads a month.

• 23:48Lewis Howes?

  One, one point three, not that much.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm sorry. Only 1.3.

• 23:51Lewis Howes?

  It's gonna get there close.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  Only 1.3 million. I mean, that's crazy. So I, so I, I think that honoring somebody's time is one of the most valuable. And in our hectic world, that's, that's the commodity that, that we're all, you know, kind of fighting against.

• 24:04Lewis Howes?

  I love it, man. I love that.

• 24:07Lewis Howes?

  Talk about why you don't like the term token of appreciation.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, I hate that word. Would you ever say that your relationship is a token relationship?

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  Then why would you use the word token when you're describing the, you know, like in, in, in, you know, let's go back 2000 years. Like kings would give a gift based upon the value of the relationship. So if you, you're a king, I'm a king and we want to partner up or we're thinking about like some project or conquering this other kingdom. I'm going to give you like a thousand steers because this relationship's really important. It's a big deal. And in our Western culture, 2016, we say, you know, thanks so much for the million dollar referral. Here's a token of our appreciation.

• 24:47Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 24:48Speaker 00

  It's, to me, it's a swear word.

• 24:49Lewis Howes?

  Like a small gift or something.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm almost kind of embarrassed about this gift. So if I call it a token, maybe it like, you know, like somehow makes it okay. That I sent you a gift card from Starbucks or I sent you a $30 bottle of wine and you just sent me a $30,000 profit deal. Like it just, I hate the word token. It should be, I, I say, this is an artifact. This is a symbol of our friendship.

• 25:14Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  Um, and I think that that's way more powerful.

• 25:17Lewis Howes?

  Meaningful.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Way more meaningful. And, and, uh, when you start thinking about it as an artifact, like I want this person to maybe pass this down someday.

• 25:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's cool. To keep it forever.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, go back to the Amish reference, an heirloom. I hope, I hope this, this stays in their family for the next few generations.

• 25:33Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. That's cool.

• 25:34Speaker 00

  That's what my hope is with, you know, when I, with the book and a bag that's for my kids. But if I'm going to do a book, like that's 15 years worth of effort, like $50 for a bag is nothing.

• 25:44Lewis Howes?

  It's great, man. Yeah, it's great. Um, okay. Let's talk about the type of gifts that you should be giving. Now you mentioned, so should you be giving a gift if someone gives you a referral then, or do you give it to them before?

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Uh, so, um, you don't tie it to the referral. So there's, um, what I call inspirational gifting, the just because. So I have, I, four times a year, I pick different times throughout the year. I'll send our top 250 relationships a gift out of the blue. Just because. Now, I'd be lying if I didn't say it. Like, I hope that over the next 10 years.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  It pays off.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  That something comes from like it's not like we're running a not for profit.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  But there's no strings attached.

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  It's expensive. These gifts aren't like cheap either.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not insignificant, but they're the same price as a dinner, a round of golf. But most people's minds, like they'll spend $300 on a dinner and then they want to spend $30 on the gift. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense.

• 26:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  They need to be congruent. Um, so I think that a gift after referral feels very transactional. And most people would say relationships are their most important asset. So you don't want to come across as transactional. So either do the gift ahead of time before the referral happens and maybe referral happens. Or wait six months after the referral and tie it to a just because, not a, I call it planned randomness. I know when the gift's going out, but it's not tied to a, a transaction.

• 26:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  It's tied to a relationship.

• 27:01Lewis Howes?

  It's funny, I actually did that with like my book, uh, when I had all these big influencers help promote. I was just in the like, the madness of the book launch and traveling and speaking and just doing every interview every day. That I wanted to like give a gift, but I just didn't have the time. So I waited like six months later and then you reached out, you're like, hey, let's help you do this. And so I did it like.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  It actually worked to your favor.

• 27:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was like, because I was like, you know, just in the mess of it. It worked in my favor because it was so much longer after they promoted.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  That's one time where procrastination was your friend.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  It paid off, yeah. But now that I know the science behind it, I'll be much more prepared. And Sarah will help set me up to win. Um, when you have that much, that many people promoting at one time. I think it's important to take care of everyone as well and just let them know, hey, I appreciate it.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  And if you can do that six months before the launch?

• 27:47Lewis Howes?

  That's where it's at. And that's what I'm going to be planning for the next time too. So.

• 27:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, you don't want it to be tied together. Like, hey, like sports teams, our sports clients are like, hey, we got these renewals coming up. And we want to send this gift out a month before the renewal. And I'm like, you really think somebody's gonna? Yeah, you really think somebody's gonna take that carrot, that $200 gift and renew a half million dollar sponsorship package with you? Like, are they, you think that they're that dumb?

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  Like, that's insulting. Like, they're not gonna spend half a million dollars because you sent them a $200 gift. Like, it's actually gonna work in your, against you. Like, they're gonna get it and be like, is this guy serious? Like, they really, and so, but if it showed up two years before that renewal and you loved on them the whole way. Now all of a sudden, it's like, I want to renew because of how I've been treated.

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool. Um, so talk about the, the levels of gifting, the price, the price range. Edible versus non-edible. What's the perfect gift?

• 28:42Speaker 00

  Well, there's no like magic bullet. I mean, if you look at the book, there's, there's, we boil things down to kind of 10 criteria. And our rule of thumb, people are like, what should I spend on the gift? And so for your top 20% of your relationships could be employees, clients, suppliers, board of directors, whatever. Our rule of thumb is, and this is pretty much every industry. I don't care if you're financial services. I don't care if you're insurance, like, if people are like, I can't do that. Like, there's always ways around and playing within the rules and still doing things classy. People use the, the example of like, well, I have Walmart as a client. I can't give a gift to Walmart. And I'm like, are all of your clients Walmart? Or do you have another 99 clients that would be appreciative? Right. Um, but most people get scared of it, so they don't even touch it. So the rule of thumb

• 29:24Speaker 00

  is whatever you'd spend on a round of golf, ballgame tickets, um, cigars, out drinks, you should be dinner, you should be willing to spend on a tangible artifact, something that's going to be around not 10 hours. It's going to be around hopefully 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. So our sweet spot for gifting of what we recommend. Tangible, not food. I, I mean, food, number one, like I, I knew that you drank juice, so I brought you juice. Yes. I don't really view that as a gift. That's just kind of like a cool thing to do because I'm, you know, I'm coming up and we're going to be chatting and I figured everybody. It's a token of your appreciation. No. Just kidding. There are times where, you know, that food is appropriate. It's just a generous thing. Yeah, but I don't view that as a gift. Yeah, yeah. But most people would be like, hey, I just sent you a cool gift. I'm like, No. You sent me some juice. Yeah, it's not. You're not going to be bragging about it 10 years from now. No, no, interesting.

• 30:09Speaker 00

  Um, so not, not edible in most situations. Number one, it's, you know, you talk about a cost per impression when you're measuring like advertising and marketing dollars. You spent, let's say on a steak dinner, a hundred dollars, $200. You, now you get the relationship, but they're going to have a go on 100 steak dinners that year. So why is your steak dinner any different than the other 99? Yeah, it doesn't. And you're consuming food, it's gone, and you spent $200 on one impression. Not a very good, you know, ROI. And so we say a hundred to a thousand.

• 30:36Lewis Howes?

  I spend dinner, I, I buy dinner for pretty much every time I go out for everyone I'm with. Should I just stop paying for dinner for people?

• 30:43Speaker 00

  No, I mean, there's, there is a time and place for entertaining and obviously for your team or for your people. But most people put all of their eggs in that one basket. And it's become almost obligatory. Like, I'm sure there's some people that like this kind of take advantage of your generosity and that's, it's kind of like, oh, Louis.

• 30:58Lewis Howes?

  It's like.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  He's the man. He's gonna take care of that.

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I don't even, you know, I just take it before it even comes. I just.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  That's, that's the classy thing to do.

• 31:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Um, and so our rule of thumb is a hundred to a thousand dollars per gift. We go as low as.

• 31:10Lewis Howes?

  Hundred to one thousand.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 31:12Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Yep. So it's not.

• 31:13Lewis Howes?

  For your top 20% tier relationships.

• 31:16Speaker 00

  Yep. It's not for everybody.

• 31:17Lewis Howes?

  But not less than a hun- hundred.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 31:19Lewis Howes?

  This depends where you're at, which money you're making. If you're making 40 grand a year and you got a hundred people to send something to.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  Then you probably, in our opinion, if you can't do a hundred gifts well, do 10 well.

• 31:30Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  And so Boyle, you're, a lot of times people are like, I have a thousand people to do. I'm like, well, where's most of your revenue coming?

• 31:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:36Speaker 00

  You know, maybe it's the top 10, 20, 50, 100. Most people try to do, they blank it out and try to do the same thing for everybody. And so they end up spending money to have no impact.

• 31:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  So they send everybody a Pez dispenser and they're like, gifts don't work. I didn't get any thank yous.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  Or they do promotional gifts, which is the worst. I get sent so much.

• 31:53Speaker 00

  Swag.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Junk.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  Trinkets and trash.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  I will never wear this t-shirt. I will never wear this whatever, wristbands. It's like, you want me to wear these things, but I wear a, a black, give me a nice v-neck, black v-neck and I'll wear it, you know?

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:06Lewis Howes?

  No logo on it.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  No, it's.

• 32:08Lewis Howes?

  Maybe just on the tag that only I could see, you know?

• 32:11Speaker 00

  Even then, put your logo on it. Put your name on it. And that's what we teach in the book is, is it a gift? Is it, is it a marketing tool? Cause a gift is recipient focused. A, a promotional gift or a marketing tool is brand focused. And most people try to blend both of them together and it, and it doesn't work.

• 32:29Lewis Howes?

  It's been, been trash.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  It'd be, it's trash because the, the person who receives it is like, I don't want to be an advertisement for their brand. And their spouse is like, we're not putting this out. Like, are you kidding me? That's tacky. But most people in their head, they think, I got this great idea. I'm going to give out these thousand gifts and they're going to be. You know, they got the logo the size of a softball and the chest of the polo and they're like, they don't realize most of those are getting re-gifted to Goodwill before they even get home.

• 32:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  And so you spent, only spent fifty dollars on whatever it was, but it ends up not getting used.

• 32:56Lewis Howes?

  No one wears it.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  Nobody wears it. And, but they check a box and they did their marketing for the day. And then they wonder why they're not like getting referrals, why the person's not sending thank yous. And it's like, well, you'd never, and I tell, people use the example, like, they'd never do this in their personal life. They'd never go to a wedding. You, you never go to a wedding and get this nice Tiffany's vase and say compliments of Lewis Howes. Here you go. My best friend, here's the gift. I want you to think about me every single day. Like you'd engrave their name and their date of the wedding on it. And yet in business, we do things we'd never do in our personal lives. And because of that, like, we waste our money. And, but the challenge is, is nobody will write the note that says, your gift sucks. I re-gifted it. It actually devalued the relationship. And nobody's honest in their thank you notes. Imagine.

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  But it goes in their head. They're thinking about it.

• 33:43Lewis Howes?

  We don't want to be mean. We don't want to be rude. We're like, oh, they tried to do something nice.

• 33:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's not the thought that counts. I told you, it's a thoughtful thought that counts. And, and most people are like, they want to mail it in and they're like, oh, it's the thought that counts. I'm like, no, it's not. Like, you would not use that in any other part of your business, but for some reason, like, gifting is you get this excuse to give lame ass gifts. No. Like, that's not how, that's not how gifting works. If you want it to be a gift and you want it to be congruent with who you are, and you say you're world class, then either write a really nice note and don't do a gift, or do it right. That's, those are the two options that most people have never been taught that. Like, you don't go to business school and there's no gifting class.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  Well, now there's gonna be.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  Well, possibly.

• 34:23Lewis Howes?

  Now you're creating an online course of gifting.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Of course. Of course.

• 34:26Lewis Howes?

  Udemy course. Um, I like it. So, it's not the thought that counts. It's the thoughtful thought that counts.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 34:33Lewis Howes?

  It's a good one. I like that. So, don't say, you shouldn't even send anything at all, or just a note, a handwritten note. Or a very thoughtful gift.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  Yep. Yep. Unless it's a, you know, if you're the, you know, the Dallas Mavericks and you want to hand out 20,000 t-shirts, by all means, have at it, put your logo on it and then pass it on.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Wear for that one game. It's white out or blacked out or whatever.

• 34:54Speaker 00

  But that's not a gift.

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  It's a promotional.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  That's a promotional item and that's fine. And if you're at a trade show and you want to hand out pens, I don't think it's a good use of resources. I think you'd be better off to spend that $5,000 on your, you know, your top.

• 35:06Lewis Howes?

  Top 10, top 20.

• 35:07Speaker 00

  Top 20 relationships and do something really cool for them that they're not expecting. But, uh, but most people, you know, they, they don't want to do that.

• 35:15Lewis Howes?

  I'll give you an example of a thoughtful gift that worked for me. Maybe it wasn't a gift, but a thoughtful way of connecting with me. Again, I'm sure like, like you said, a lot of people email me or message me and ask to like pick my brain or take time. And like you said, time is the most valuable thing for, for a lot of us.

• 35:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 35:31Lewis Howes?

  And I'm still focused and committed to what I'm doing. And at one point in my podcast, I said, listen, you know, school for me just didn't work. And although college was great for sports and connecting and communication and just becoming a human being and just interacting with people, it was great for that. Like I didn't learn any other like information from my classes that I applied to what I'm doing now.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 35:53Lewis Howes?

  So I said, at one point, I like, you know, don't go back to business school. Find the mentor that, find someone in your life or in the world that really inspires you in the business they've created and then go, uh, don't ask them to work for them for free. Cause I get that all the time. A lot of people say, I'll move to LA, I'll work for you for three, for three months. I'll give you six months of my life, whatever, but I just want to learn everything I can from you. And I'll pick your brain and then just be by your side. I'm like, I don't have the time to.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  Weed out.

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  Teach you everything first off, and then you're just going to leave and go do something else. Like, why would I put my energy so you can learn from me and what? Do some social media tweets or something? For me in return? Like it doesn't pay off, you know, and I'm charging 10 grand an hour for coaching. How does that pay off?

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, it doesn't.

• 36:35Lewis Howes?

  And so I said, instead you should, like I would have, if I had the money when I was like younger, I would pay someone 10, 20 grand to work for them for a year. And say, listen, I will work for you and I'll pay you 20 grand. And essentially, I'm gonna work my butt off for you. I'm gonna do whatever you tell me. I'm going to research whatever you tell me to do, anything you tell me to do. I just wanna be able to access and be around, you know, once a week for like 30 minutes.

• 37:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:01Lewis Howes?

  And just be able to listen and kind of be around. And then whatever you need me to do, I'll do it. And I made that, that point. And like a few months later, a guy dropped off a box, like a custom box essentially, with a five-page letter that essentially said, I wanna pay you 10 grand, can work for you for three months. I'll give you everything I got. Here are all my skills, here are all my weaknesses. Here's the things I can't really do well at all.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  Pretty honest.

• 37:29Lewis Howes?

  And I'm putting it out there for you right now. But here's what I'm really confident in. And what I can do for you. And, you know, I'll do whatever it takes. And I'll pay you 10 grand. And I was like, I was like, now this is how you do it. I was, I still like waited. I was like, I don't even know if I wanna take this, but I was like, this is how you do it.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:46Lewis Howes?

  Cause it made me think about it, made me talk about it. I talked to my whole team about it. I like tweeted it out there. It moved me. I was like, this guy got creative. And, and then I didn't respond for a few days and he kept emailing me and following up, hey, I dropped this thing off. Just wanted to make sure you got it. Would love to like discuss it.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Pleasantly persistent. I love it.

• 38:03Lewis Howes?

  Persistent, persistent. And then finally, like a month or two later, I was like, all right, let's jump on a call and just like feel it out. And then we talked and then a couple of days later, I was like, okay, let's do this for three months and check it out.

• 38:13Speaker 00

  Good experiment nonetheless. I mean,

• 38:15Lewis Howes?

  Experiment, yeah. And so, yeah, he's about to start here. He's been doing some part-time stuff.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  Oh, this hasn't even happened yet.

• 38:21Lewis Howes?

  It just happened. And he, we've been like, he's been doing some research for my next book already. But he was finishing up school, master's program. And like he starts like in a couple of days or something. So, yeah, he's gonna pay me the 10 grand and then we'll do the work for three months and see where it goes.

• 38:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but I'm like, that's how you, if you really want something, if you want to learn, and this guy's gonna learn more in three months than he would anywhere for two years, in my opinion. Cause now I'm like, I'm committed to this guy. I'm like, I appreciate the thoughtfulness. I've already given him things that I know it's gonna like, put him 10 years above everyone else.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:57Lewis Howes?

  His age group.

• 38:58Speaker 00

  You're giving him the short, you're giving him.

• 38:59Lewis Howes?

  I'm giving him stuff that I really like now. I'm like, here, work on this, work on this. Not just like manage my social media, but like, let's really dive in together.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  This is to go get me coffee.

• 39:07Lewis Howes?

  This isn't that. Now, this is like, you're working with me on some projects that are gonna be really impactful for a lot of people, and it's gonna help you in a couple of years.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  And 10 grand versus, I mean, think about the ROI, like, I mean, he completely changed the paradigm, cause I mean, if you're charging $10,000 for an hour of coaching.

• 39:24Lewis Howes?

  He's gonna get it for three months. You know what I mean? It's like, I feel like.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  But he was the first one to be bold enough.

• 39:29Lewis Howes?

  I feel like I'm getting screwed out of the deal, but really, it's, it's great. It's gonna be a win-win. And that's why I'm doing it, because he's gonna help me a lot, save me a lot of time. And I'm gonna teach him a lot. So it's gonna be amazing, but that's the thing, and that's something that you do really well. It's like, you're really creative with, you're very intentional, even the bag and like the book. It's very intentional with everything you do. Um, and the way you reached out to me, it was like, hey, even if you don't use our, our service, which is essentially premium gifting.

• 39:57Speaker 00

  Gift strategy and logistics.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  Gift strategy and logistics, like, I just wanna help you out, and here's essentially like five to $500 or $1,000 worth of gifts that you can use, whether we never talk again. And for me, that's like, okay, if someone's willing to put money or time or energy on the line.

• 40:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  And be really thoughtful to help save me time and energy, it's like, I'm willing to at least take a look. You know what I mean?

• 40:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, and we run, I mean, some mutual friends and run in the same circle. I'm like, I've, I've spent, I do this all the time, but I'm like, you know, this is almost like my gambling money. I go to Vegas, like, I gamble on people. I'm like.

• 40:30Lewis Howes?

  You never know how it's gonna pay off.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  Never know how it's gonna pay out. And, and, and sometimes it's immediate, sometimes it's literally some of our best relationships, it took seven years to develop, like, we planted the seed. Nothing happened. I wasn't mad. Like, in many cases, people come back and like, you remember X, Y, and Z? I'm like, I wish I could say yes.

• 40:46Lewis Howes?

  Well, like gifts that you gave them?

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. Gifts I gave them or gifts I gave for them to give to their most, like, that's one of my most impactful questions is, who are the three people that are most important to you that I can make you look like a million bucks to?

• 40:58Lewis Howes?

  Like a, like a hero.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  I want to be your, yeah, I want to, I want to make you look like a hero to your most, your mentors, your, and people are like, oh my gosh, like, and what's weird is you would think that they're already appreciating those people, but there's a lot of times people, they have good intentions, but they just never get around to it. And so when you make it so easy that all they have to do is say yes and send the names.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  That's it. And then not to spend anything, not to make a decision.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  We do everything. We take care of everything. And they're like, oh my gosh, I've been wanting to, I've been racking my brain. And most people get,

• 41:26Lewis Howes?

  How to give, yeah.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  What to give, how to give. They don't want to look silly. And so they just don't do it. And so we kind of take that barrier away. You know, it's, uh, it's amazing what's, what comes from that.

• 41:38Lewis Howes?

  Now, what's, we're talking about shock and awe in the book. And you say there's a formula to shock and awe. What does that, what does that mean?

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Well, the, uh, the formula, most people ask themselves what the least they can get away with and do. And, you know, Paul was a great person to, would say, what's the most I can do? And so, you know, and we, you know, we've had clients where they're like, hey, we've been trying to get in this door. And it's,

• 41:58Lewis Howes?

  What's the most I can do without going broke?

• 42:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:01Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're not gonna do the most and be like, well, I just spent a $50,000.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  No, no, but I'd like, like, you know, Cameron Harold, the, you know, mutual friend. First time I met him, I heard him speak at an EO event. I'm like, this dude, I don't want him to, I don't want to be a groupie. I want him to be my mentor.

• 42:14Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  And so I ended up finding out that he was a huge Brooks Brothers fan. He was coming to Cleveland. And gonna be speaking and I, um, I told him I was a Jose Bank guy when I was talking to him and I asked him for a shirt size and he looked at me kind of weird like, this dude got like a man crush on me. Like this is weird. And so, uh, when he came into town, like his flight got delayed and he was, we were supposed to go to dinner and a ballgame, kind of the normal like routine. And you could tell like he was like, why did I ever agree to this? Cause like all his flights got delayed. And I, five hours beforehand, he didn't know this, but I went up to Brooks Brothers and I said, here's the guy's sizes. I want one of everything in the fall collection.

• 42:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  Shirts, jackets, sweaters, everything.

• 42:50Lewis Howes?

  How much is that?

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Seven grand.

• 42:53Lewis Howes?

  But you build a relationship for life, huh?

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, so we went to the GM at the Ritz and said, you got a VIP coming to town. He's one of the top business coaches in the world. Would you like to do something crazy and special? And of course, they would have it at the Ritz. They said, yes. So we merchandised this hotel room to look like a Brooks Brothers store.

• 43:06Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  And so when he went to check in and went, like, we're in the lobby waiting for him. I mean, my business partner, my business partner just bought 50% of Ruling Group. And he's the CFO guy. I'm the visionary. He's like, dude, you're either crazy or a genius. Like, I'm sweating.

• 43:20Lewis Howes?

  Seven grand, yes.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  And so he comes back down and before his shoulders were all slouchy, his eyes were like the size of silver dollars. He's like, John, whatever you want to talk about for as long as you want to talk about it, I'm all ears. He's like, I've never had anybody. He's like, I've texted pictures to John, to Julius for customer service books. He's like, this is unbelievable. Now, he's, you know, from that point forward, the, the

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  Trust.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  The trust, the relationship, I mean, you know, his wife invited me to his

• 43:45Lewis Howes?

  His attention, his level of like opening up doors for anything is probably

• 43:48Speaker 00

  You name a client and he's willing to open the door for them. I mean, doors I could

• 43:52Lewis Howes?

  Yes, it's a, of course, it's, what do you need? It's anything.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  Anything. And here's the kicker is so people are like, why don't I have $7,000? And the simple fact is there's a lot of companies that are listening to your show that probably spent 70 grand on a trade show and maybe got like five good leads that didn't produce anything.

• 44:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  And they didn't think anything about that.

• 44:08Lewis Howes?

  Waste of time, energy, exhausted.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Yep. So people are like, why don't I have $7,000? I'm like, well, that's fine. How much do you think it cost me? And they're like, I don't know, it was seven grand? I'm like, no. And they said, like, five grand? I'm like, no. I'm like, zero. Like, what do you mean? Like, did he not keep the stuff? And I said, yeah, he kept it. He kept like $2,000 worth of clothes because he packed up. He picked out what he wanted. And, uh, and he came back to me and said, John, either I'm going to guesstimate and add 30% of what I think those cost, or you're going to tell me and I'm going to write a check for that. Cause what you, the personalization, the act of what you did was the gift. I can't let you buy the product as well. So it cost me nothing.

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  He paid you for?

• 44:47Speaker 00

  He paid me for the, he insisted. He's like, I'm either going to send you the money and gas and overestimate.

• 44:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 44:52Speaker 00

  Or

• 44:52Lewis Howes?

  You can tell me.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Or he can tell me. And, uh, and the rest of the clothes just went, you know, the GM took it to the Brooks. And then, yeah, they put it back on my credit card. But it was the, that kind of shock and awe. Like, if I had bought him his shirt.

• 45:03Lewis Howes?

  One shirt. Oh, thanks, bro.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:07Lewis Howes?

  Well, that was very nice of you.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, you know, and hey, you got my size right. And I'm sure he would have remembered it. But to this day, I mean, he's got jackets that like, it sounds, you know, like a man crush, but he'll take pictures like, hey, I'm getting ready to fly to Dubai. And he's like taking a selfie in the jacket, sending it off to me like, so like, you know, now eight years later, he still remembers. Cause it's tangible and then because of the shock and all, so it's, it's asking yourself the question, what's the most I can do? Most people say, what's the least I can get away with? And that asking yourself that what's the most I can do, it, it opens the realm of possibilities to a $50 bag for a book. Like, most people would say, well, the hardcover, you, you know, that's enough. That's enough. And then you play like everybody else.

• 45:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  And I don't.

• 45:51Lewis Howes?

  Now, is it ever too much? Is it like, could there be a stand where like, okay, this is just too far?

• 45:56Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 45:57Lewis Howes?

  I, I. Like, uh, this isn't shock and all, this is your crazy, don't ever talk to me again.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, and any, anytime you're going to be unique and, and out of the box, you're gonna, like, you're gonna run the risk of that. And so I would say that we probably get 1% of our gifts back. Where somebody either is pissed off or going through a divorce, they hate the gift. They, you know, list off 20 things, like, you just don't know what's going on in that person's life or what, what they're dealing with business wise. Like, sometimes we send a gift, like, they're dealing with fraud in their company. And so a gift shows up and it's like, just bad timing, dude, like, um, so most people get like, and if you're really high level prospecting, going after, you know, millionaires and billionaires, you might get 20% back. And most people focus on the 20% versus the 80% that work.

• 46:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  And so, yes, you can go too far, but I would say most people tend to go play too little, not too, not, not too big.

• 46:49Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  And so, um, not to say that like, there's not times where like, you know, Louis Vuitton bag's gonna look like a bribe. Like, we're not trying to look like a bribe.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  Not giving people a new car.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, although some, some people are, you know, if they're a big referral partner, I, I know that, I think Chandler Bolt gave away, uh, I think Hal, actually, Hal Elrod from, um, you know, Miracle Morning was the biggest referrer and he ended up getting a Tesla.

• 47:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 47:13Speaker 00

  Or a Lexus or something.

• 47:14Lewis Howes?

  That's like more of affiliate marketing and like part of the prizes or whatever you.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it.

• 47:18Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 47:19Speaker 00

  But it's, you know, it's like Oprah, like, hey, you get a car.

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, that's great. Now, tell me about the story about, um, posing to your wife, cause I didn't hear the full story, but Sarah said she read it and.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  In the book. Yeah. What happened? Well, I had to get approval to put that in the book because for a long time it was like a wedge in our marriage. Oh, wow. It was a pretty, um, so I don't know how much time we have. I'll tell you the very abbreviated version, but I, you know, when my wife started and I started dating, she moved to Ohio. I, it was about eight, nine years ago. And, um, I went through, I'd sold half the business thinking it was to grow and I found out that my assistant was stealing from me. And then I went through an IRS audit and then I like invested in real estate and it was like 2007, 2008, everything started to melt down. So I went from like the king of everything to like living on a thousand dollars a month. Like I just batted down the hatches, like my business partner didn't take a salary for 18 months. It was bad.

• 48:12Speaker 00

  Not the exact time you want to start a, like a deep, meaningful relationship. Like she got the worst of being, uh, dating an entrepreneur. Wow. So when it came time to do the, uh, the engagement, she'd moved back to St. Louis, but we were talking and we went through some rocky times. But she was coming back for Valentine's Day and she's expecting like a dinner, but not like anything big. And so I was like, this is the time that I want to get engaged. And I'd been planning it for four months. And if you're a sap like I am, the movie, The Notebook, if you've ever seen it. Sure, sure. You know, probably more of a female movie, but I'm, I wear my heart on my sleeve. And so I wanted to recreate the movie for her. Wow. Of The Notebook. And so I took our story. She liked the movie as well? She loved the movie. Yeah. So it's like our, one of our movies. So I wrote in this leather, like real high end leather journal, like 50 pages of our story.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  Remembering things that she, I knew she, she thought I'd forgotten. And then she'd want to, at the time where the iPod, the mini was hot. So I read it to her. So like she could listen to the story and read it. And so the plan was she was going to be in St. Louis flying in, you know, after work on Friday night. And so my brother went to film school, like we flew in, the plan was we'd fly in the morning of, since we're already past security. And he, we went to a bathroom stall and he would transform me into an 85 year old man. Like it looked like I gained a hundred pounds. I had latex makeup, false teeth. It took three hours. In the bathroom. In the bathroom, like, so I'm lifting my legs up, so I don't, like, there's not two sets of feet in a bathroom stall in an airport.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  And, um, and so I'd arranged with Continental to be sitting on the plane next to her, so like, she was supposed to, my brother delivers this box to her saying, John wanted you to have this, and it got lost in the mail, so he flew me down here to find it. So she opens it up, listens to the first half and the second half of our story, and it gets to the end of the story, and at 30,000 feet, it was- So she's reading it on the plane? She'd be listening to it and reading it on the second half. With her instructions of like- Yeah, listen to the first half on the ground, and then listen to the second half in the air, and it starts to just talk about, you know, growing old together, we love me when I this, and it starts to describe, and I'm sit, and I had arranged with Continental to be sitting on the plane next to her. And- She didn't know you were sitting next to her? She had no idea that I'd be sitting next to her. How does she not know?

• 50:15Speaker 00

  Because I'm like, because I look like, I, I like a NASCAR jacket, brute, cologne, Velcro, like, every detail, like, this old Casio watch, like- Nothing. Nothing looked, like, it looked like I was 85. Wow. And so the plan was, I, you know, if you're Shawshank Redemption fan, I'd sealed the back half of the notebook with wax, and I'd carved out room for this ring, so I could get down on one knee at 30,000 feet. Wow. And then when we landed, her mom and sister and a whole family had driven nine and a half hours and was in a stretch Hummer with my family- Shut up. Waiting for us, and then we had 200 people of our closest friends, and I'd rented out the top level of, uh, one of the top restaurants, who's my cousin owned in Cleveland.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  So that was how it was supposed to go down. So everything was going perfect. The morning of, we do a makeup run, we go fly into St. Louis, we get changed, I'm in a different part of the airport, she shows up, gets the box, she's listening to it, and I go to get escorted on the plane, because I'm, you know, it's for old people and people with kids. With your wheelchair. Yeah, well, except I'm walking, and so I get to, like, right to the, the jetway to hand my ticket, and I collapsed. What? And so my brother's like, guys, he's like playing like the old guy, and they roll me over, and I'm like, there's blood everywhere. What happened? You fainted or what? Well, um, and so they're, uh, so Lindsay's like, why is the old guy, where's the old guy's people? Like, this is, like, what's going on? And so another pilot comes off the plane, another plane, and they're like, it's an old guy, he's having a heart attack, they pull the defibrillator off the wall, and they put, they start to cut the clothes off, pull things back. Now meanwhile, Lindsay's-

• 51:34Speaker 00

  This is before you go on the plane? This is before I go on the plane. Oh my gosh. So she's like, oh my gosh, what, that's John, and she like melts down. Like, she goes from like being on like- She's always you? She realizes it's me, and she's just like, oh my gosh, what's, like, she just freaked, had to build a wall of people around me, they put the defibrillator on me, and it says to shock me. So they shock me, bounce off the ground, I'm throwing up, they can't stabilize me. So meanwhile, there's a guy getting on an airplane in 2008, guess what, you know, like, who's getting a phone call, FBI, so there's cops and everybody's showing up like, what the heck is going on here? Like, they're interrogating people, my brother, like, they, like, my brother's over in the corner, like, showing him the ring, like, he was gonna propose, like, this isn't a terrorist. They can't stabilize me, they put me on a, on a respirator, put me into the ambulance. Now meanwhile, like, Lindsay's in the back of a cop car following the ambulance with my brother.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  She's like, what is going on? What is going on? Like, my brother's texting my mom, like, party's off, John had a heart attack, we have no, like, we're on the way to the hospital. Oh my gosh. So she finds out from the cop that I was gonna propose to her, like, she's crying, she's praying, she's just like a mess. So they take me to the closest hospital, they put me on a breathing machine, they, they run every test under the sun, and, uh... You unconscious? I'm unconscious. Wow. I don't remember, I don't remember from about, well, the, like, when I started to walk, and I remember from there till, like, the next morning. Oh my gosh. So the next morning, I, I wake up and they're like, basically, the doctor's like, you're, you're a hundred percent okay, you're gonna be fine, but you're really lucky, cuz, um, I, I had done this really crazy health cleanse, I'd always, the January, February, I'd always do, like,

• 53:03Speaker 00

  go to a yoga retreat or do something, and I, I had eliminated all carbs, well, that day, I didn't eat or drink anything, because I was nervous and I'm in airport and I have latex makeup, so I don't wanna mess up the makeup. You can't breathe. You can't breathe, yeah, and so I had a low blood sugar seizure that got misdiagnosed by the machine, and so when I got shocked, my system was already really weak, and it shut everything down, they're like, you could've died, like... Holy cow. So, six days later, on an airplane with no disguise, flying back to Ohio, um, we listened to the rest of it, she didn't know the ring was in the back. I got, I got down on one knee, we're crying, she said yes. Um, but the kicker is, is that for a long time, I loved this story, I'm like, wanting to tell the world, I'm like, this is like, better than Romeo and Juliet, I live. Right.

• 53:47Speaker 00

  And she's like, you don't understand, that was my, that was a nightmare, I hated that, I don't wanna ever talk about it. Wow. Like, yes, I wanna marry you, but no, I hate that story. And in for the first three years of marriage, like I was amazing gifting in business world, but I was like bitter, like, like I almost died for you. And what I realized was, and this is the last chapter in the book is Lindsay hates surprises. And I made the gift all about how cool I was and the story. And if I pulled it off, it probably would have been fine.

• 54:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  But in reality, she would have liked a nice romantic dinner, maybe a walk on the beach, something, she's a farm girl. She likes nice things, but she's a simple girl.

• 54:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  And I made the gift all about me. And I didn't ask, I didn't think about what would they want? What did she want? I made it about what I wanted, the cool story, the cool surprise.

• 54:34Lewis Howes?

  You got what you wanted.

• 54:35Speaker 00

  I got what I wanted. But I also like, I mean, she was pissed for a long time. And so I finally came back and I apologized to her multiple times saying, I, you know, like I suck. I made, I made the gift about me, not about you. And I think in business, we do that. We like, we make the gift about how cool we are versus about the recipient. We make the gift about our brand versus about the other person. And I'm like, wow, like this is a pretty powerful point that it took me like three years of marriage and like butting heads on this issue to realize like it's not about me, it's about the other person, if it's really a gift. And, and so it was, you know.

• 55:12Lewis Howes?

  I love it, man.

• 55:14Lewis Howes?

  It's a great story. Couple of final questions and I gotta wrap it up. How important is the presentation of the gift? Wrapped, unwrapped?

• 55:20Speaker 00

  Super important. You'd never give a Rolex in a paper bag. That's my analogy. Like, you know, it's like when you go to a nice restaurant and the, you know, it's like the food just tastes better when it's prepared well and when it's presented well. And not in every situation, there's always like people like, what about this? I'm like, okay, that's an anomaly or that, that worked because of whatever. But in general, the, the details matter. And so the gift wrap makes you get excited in it, the presentation. It's like, it's like a book. If I sent you a, you know, a Kinko's, you know, staple copy, same words. But completely different presentation of the book. And so I think that, um, yeah, I think, I think that a lot of people will do like, maybe it's a nice gift, but they, they don't handwrite the card. They just type it.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  Or they don't do the right packaging or the right box. And they think it's good enough.

• 56:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What if your handwriting is horrible? Is it okay to have someone else? Cause I literally, I, no matter how hard I try, it just looks like it's two year old.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I mean, I, I, I, I, there are times where somebody else will handwrite for me.

• 56:22Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  So I do think they handwrite, yeah, yeah. Um, but I do think that, uh, even like sloppy handwriting is, is better than.

• 56:30Lewis Howes?

  More meaningful.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  It's more meaningful.

• 56:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 56:32Speaker 00

  And when somebody gets something from you, they're like, I mean, and I, you hear stories all the time where like the president of the company like sends like two lines to like an employee. And then the, like the president's there like 20 years later at the person's house and it's like framed in the bathroom. You know, I've, I've talked to multiple CEOs where they're like, oh my gosh, I, I don't even remember writing that.

• 56:49Lewis Howes?

  How meaningful it was though.

• 56:50Speaker 00

  But how meaningful it was to the other person. So I think that, uh, yeah, I think the presentation matters.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow. I like it. And what's the 30 day challenge?

• 56:58Speaker 00

  So I think that most people will say, um, there's, you know, if they're like anybody, whether you're a guy or gal, but you're thinking either, A, I don't have time for this. Or John, you're super creative. You must just be wired for this. So that's like your thing. Um, and what I tell them is I'm a farm boy from Ohio. Like I didn't grow up around like amazing gifts. Like my parents were hardworking. They gave what they could, but they, like, I didn't learn this growing up. And I think that, um, one of the most important things we can do, and I know that, you know, Tim Ferriss was one of the first backers of the five minute journal. And I think that the more you can have a system where you're thinking, uh, and focusing on gratitude. And I call it a muscle. It's a muscle that you can, the gratitude muscle that you can work where you're thinking about, who would I not have a business without?

• 57:40Speaker 00

  Who would I not have, you know, this, these opportunities without? Who, who's poured into me over the last two, five, 10, 15, 20 years? You start to think about who you're grateful for and who, and who you need to show gratitude to, all of a sudden, and you make it about them versus about you. You know, like, I think anybody can be creative when it comes to gifting, like, people that use the excuse like, oh, with my spouse, I just suck at gifting. Like, no, you just don't put as much thought and intention into gifting your wife or your husband as you do your business. Cause if you focused on it every day.

• 58:11Lewis Howes?

  You get good at it.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  You get pretty dang good at it.

• 58:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  Even the most uncreative people. So I think that 30 day challenge is getting into the mindset every day, even if it's just for five minutes. I think the five minute journal is a great way to do that.

• 58:23Lewis Howes?

  What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

• 58:25Speaker 00

  Oh, man, that's a great question. Um, I mean, I have, I have three daughters under five that are amazing. And so we have a seven month old. And I would say that, uh, that my wife has taken the, the brunt of, you know, now the nursing and caring for her, but she's like, John, you need to sleep. And we need sleep. You know, if you want to, you can go sleep somewhere else. Just you can get some rest and like, cause I got pneumonia like six weeks ago.

• 58:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 58:48Speaker 00

  And, uh, you know, with the travel and the book launch and, and we just bought a manufacturing company to start doing our own custom gifts and whatever else. And so there's a lot on the plate, uh, that are all good things, but I would say that, uh, I'm super grateful for, you know, she stepped up. Being sleep deprived and just holding down the fort when I'm out, you know, touring the country and speaking and whatever else.

• 59:10Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. I like it. Um, this is the three truths question. It's the last day for you and the book is gone and everything you've ever created is gone, but you have a piece of paper and a pen to write down. Three things that you know to be true about everything you've experienced in life that you want to pass on to whoever wants to read it.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:28Lewis Howes?

  Three truths. What would your three truths be?

• 59:32Speaker 00

  That, uh, you'll never regret giving more than is reasonable. Uh, that's, that's a core thing for me. I think that, uh, you know, to, to, to not, not love others, uh, the way that you want to be loved, but to love them the way that they want to be loved. And the third one. Wasn't prepared for this question. So, these are candid, these are very candid and-

• 59:56Lewis Howes?

  They're non-prepped.

• 59:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're non-prepped. I would say that, uh, that we all, you know, we are all created with a purpose. We are all created with a purpose and, um, for me, that's to live out and share my faith. Uh, but I think that, uh, that, you know, whether you believe in God or Creator, I think that, that, you know, that there's no accidents and we are all here for a purpose.

• 1:00:19Lewis Howes?

  I like it. Uh, well, before I ask the final question, um, make sure to go pick up the book Giftology, The Art and Science of Using Gifts to Cut Through the Noise, Increase Referrals and Strengthen Retention by John Ruland. Uh, and you can get the book on Amazon or where is the, uh, the book website?

• 1:00:36Speaker 00

  Giftologybook.com.

• 1:00:37Lewis Howes?

  Giftologybook.com. And, um, where do you hang out the most online? Where can we connect with you personally?

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  Uh, I mean, you got a Ruland Group, which is, is kind of our site to kind of learn a little bit about who we are, what we do.

• 1:00:50Lewis Howes?

  Are you H L I N group.com?

• 1:00:53Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:00:53Lewis Howes?

  What about you personally on social media? Do you hang out in one place?

• 1:00:55Speaker 00

  Uh, I'm, I'm probably a, a Facebook guy as much as anything. I know Gary Vee and everybody's, uh, I just got a Snapchat account. I, I can't say that I have any idea what I'm doing with it.

• 1:01:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:01:05Speaker 00

  I have thought about doing a, uh, a Snapchat of, of, uh, these are good gifts. These are horrible gifts.

• 1:01:10Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. I like that.

• 1:01:11Speaker 00

  Um, but, uh, but right now Facebook would probably be the main place.

• 1:01:16Lewis Howes?

  Well, before I ask the final question, uh, John, I want to acknowledge you for your generosity. You really set me up to win in a big way after my book launch without any expectations. And it meant a lot to me and it also strengthened so many powerful relationships for me that I probably would have messed up. And maybe not messed up, but just not done the right way or an intentional, loving, thoughtful way. So I want to acknowledge you for your generosity with me personally, but also with your- Consistent intentional goodwill that you put out in the world and I think there needs to be more people like you who are thoughtful about how they can be of service to the people they care about the most. As opposed to neglect the people we care about the most.

• 1:01:54Lewis Howes?

  So I acknowledge you for all that you do. I acknowledge you for how you put this together and I'm excited for our relationship in the future. So I appreciate it, man.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  Thanks, man.

• 1:02:03Lewis Howes?

  The final question is what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  My definition of greatness is, uh, I would say that somebody that, uh, is able to, um, have the people that know them, uh, the best, their inner circle, um, admire and respect them the most. And so I think that oftentimes I find myself chasing like the approval of other people, but, um, I find that when I'm, uh, I'm actually doing way better business wise when, when my wife and my kids, when they love and respect and admire me, then everything else is kind of taking care of itself. Um, and that includes fitness, like my wife holds me to a high regard and as far as taking care of myself, um, when I'm taking care of home base, um, that's, that's where greatness comes from.

• 1:02:51Lewis Howes?

  Love it. John Ruhl. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  Thanks, dude.

• 1:02:54Lewis Howes?

  It's great.

• 1:02:56Lewis Howes?

  There you have it. Have you learned how to give the perfect gift? If so, start giving away freely. And again, guys, this for me was so fascinating. Make sure to pick up a copy of John's book as well. You can get all the information in the show notes in the full video interview at lewishouse.com/344. Make sure to share it out on Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, anywhere you think people could use this free, helpful information to empower their lives and help them be even greater. It's all about paying it forward. So again, if you're listening now, make sure to pay it forward. We get over 1.3 million downloads a month and it's all because of you.

• 1:03:37Lewis Howes?

  Continue to give the gift of inspiration, of motivation, of education, and this podcast is a great place to do that. Also, if you're looking to build your online empire, if you have an idea burning inside your heart right now, but you haven't been able to put it out there, then make sure to get my free video series right now. It's all about how to build your online empire. And it's at LewisHowes.com/legacy. Do it right now. I guarantee you, you're gonna get a ton of value out of these free videos. All you gotta do is opt in, watch the free videos, and let me know what you think. Leave a comment below these videos as well because I think they're gonna be a big game changer for you. We've been working on them for six months,

• 1:04:21Lewis Howes?

  and I am super pumped to have them out into the world right now. So let me know what you think. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And my question for you today is this. How much longer are you going to wait to actually go after the life of your dreams? How many more days? How many more weeks? How many more months or years are you gonna continue to put off the thing that you've always wanted to do? The thing that's inside of you that you can't stop thinking about, and you continue to say, you know what? I'll do it next month. I'll do it next year. I'll wait until I'm ready. How much longer are you gonna put that thing off? And how amazing will it feel to take that first step

• 1:05:04Lewis Howes?

  and start achieving that life of your dreams? That's my question for you guys today. I hope you enjoyed this one. I hope you know that you are loved, that you matter, and that you are so, so worth it. You guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.