308 Tracy McMillan on Why Relationships Are Meant to Trigger Us

"There is only one relationship - the one you have with yourself." - Tracy McMillan If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/308 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Episode number 308 with Tracy McMillan.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. That's an African proverb and one of the quotes that I post in the School of Greatness book. If you guys haven't got the book yet, make sure to get a copy of the New York Times bestseller that sold over 50,000 copies around the world. And that is all about the chapter on building a winning team and relationships. Again, we were born to connect, to relate, to come together, to create things. We weren't born to be alone by ourselves. And this is a topic about building relationships and building team with a partner today. And our guest is Tracy McMillan.

• 1:16Speaker 00

  She is a relationship expert, author, television writer, and matchmaker on and was a matchmaker on NBC's Ready for Love. She is known for the 2011 viral blog post, Why You're Not Married, which for two years was the most viewed article on Huffington Post and is the fourth most read post of all time. She also won the 2010 Writers Guild of America Awards for the dramatic series For Mad Men. And she's a TEDx speaker as well. And in this episode, we dive in, we cover a lot of messy things, actually. But some of the good stuff is how to build awareness in all of your relationships, not just your intimate ones, but in all of them.

• 1:57Speaker 00

  What American women and men both tend to lack in their relationships. Why getting triggered by your partner isn't that bad of a thing after all. And the difference between raising kids with someone and being married to them. We talk about all of that and so much more in this episode, number 308, with the one, the only Tracy McMillan.

• 2:24Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm very excited about our guest, Tracy McMillan. Thanks so much for being here.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:31Lewis Howes?

  You're a relationship expert, coach. You're an author with a new book coming out. You're a writer for TV and media personality. What do you enjoy doing the most of all the hats you wear?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  That's cool. You know what I love? I love talking one-on-one with someone about their relationships. And I would do that for free. And I do do it for free. Oh, absolutely.

• 2:54Lewis Howes?

  You don't charge for it?

• 2:55Speaker 02

  No, I don't. In fact, some people will be like, I want to inquire about your relationship coaching. I'm like, oh, I do that for free. I make money as a writer and a television writer. I share about experiences in relationships for free.

• 3:10Lewis Howes?

  So people just call you and get coaching from you all the time? Does your phone constantly blow up?

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Well, this is how I started. So the way I started was I didn't set out to become a relationship expert. I always joke that I'm the jailhouse lawyer of relationship experts. I've done so much work on my own case that now I can help you with yours. So it's well-known that I've been married and divorced three times. So I've had a lot of experiences in relationships, things that I did wrong, and then having to sort of put Humpty Dumpty back together again. So I had a lot to learn. You know, I had a really crazy childhood and that made me be a really crazy adult who had a lot to learn about loving, you know, getting grounded. Anyway, without going too deeply into that, as I started to work through my own stuff,

• 3:59Speaker 02

  I would share it with people that I was working with. I worked for many years, 16 years in television news. Now, a newsroom is a place with like 100 people in it. And you're working, but you're also, there's lots of time to hang out and talk. And I would always be in some conversation with one of the girls in the newsroom about what was going on in her relationship or what was going on in my relationship.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  And over the years, I became this person who really kind of had a lot of good insights. And it's not even advice. Like, people will say, "Oh, I want your advice." I'm like, "I don't really give advice." What I give is like, "You tell me a little bit about your situation, and then I'll tell you either an experience I've had with that, or maybe some concepts, things I've learned." And I've done tons of reading, and I've been in therapy since I was like five. So I have a lot to draw on, and I sort of have a gift for applying things to whatever's going on in your life. And pretty soon, people would call me and say, "Hey, can I have my friend talk to you? Because like, she really needs your help." And I'd be like, "Sure." So then her friend would call me, like, when you're commuting or whatever.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  And the next thing I knew, I had a lot of people that I was helping. And I helped people get married. And it just kind of became a thing that I did. And then I wrote "Why You're Not Married." So meanwhile, I'm becoming a television writer. I wrote "Why You're Not Married," this piece that went in the Huffington Post.

• 5:27Lewis Howes?

  It blew up?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  It blew up. It became the all-time most viewed for maybe almost three years. It was the number one of all time. And really, that was just all of my life experience and wisdom sort of compressed into 1,200 very sassy words.

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Apparently. Now, never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that that was gonna happen.

• 5:54Lewis Howes?

  Well, and from that, you wrote the book after that, right?

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Yes, and then I wrote the book after that. Really, it was just me... I'm a writer, so that's what I do. It's just me writing a piece, and I'm kind of making myself laugh and going, "Ha, ha, ha, yes, that's it, yes." And then it turns out...

• 6:09Lewis Howes?

  You were connected to people.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yes, apparently.

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  So after the second marriage, how did you say to yourself, "Let's try this a third time, and it'll work"? Did you not learn all the lessons in the first two and previous relationships, which were probably...

• 6:23Speaker 02

  No, I did not. And I don't think most people do. It depends on who you are. So I got married once in the 80s, once in the 90s, and once in the 00s. So it's really, it sounds like I've been married a lot, and I have, but it's really over a 30-year period.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  It's like different lifetimes.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Exactly. So I got married once when I was 19. Then I got married 13 years later. So I had every reason to believe... That marriage was going to be okay. Like, there was a lot of years in between that first marriage and the second one. Now, in my second marriage, I was pregnant, so that helps. That helps you go, "I really should get married right now." And I'm a kind of a traditional person. And my kid's dad is a traditional person. So it made all the sense in the world that we were gonna get married. And then, my third marriage was 10 years after that. I got married, um, let's see, one was in 2000, or 1996, and then I got married in 2004. So, like, eight years after that.

• 7:23Lewis Howes?

  And why did each one of them not work for you, or the other person?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Well, it's not even that they didn't work for me. It's just that, okay, well, that's a big question. So, first of all, I was 17 when I met my first husband. I was not mature. On the outside, I was sort of like a Eminem. On the outside, I appeared to be very grown up for my age. I was wise beyond my years. I was a foster child. I lived in like 24 foster homes. I'd seen so much life by the time I was 17. My father was in prison for many, many years. I'd, I'd seen a lot. And, um, so I had a wisdom sort of beyond my years. And yet, on the inside, developmentally, I really was very, very young.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  And so, a lot of it, looking back, is that I really needed to finish growing up. And so, there was, and actually, in that marriage, I did finish growing up. I came in, I met him when I was 17. We broke up when I was 22. And by the time I, it ended, I was like, it was almost like, "Oh, I see. We're not, we don't have kids. We've been together five years. We should really just let this go. Call it a success, 'cause it is. I'm sort of a grown up now, and I'll take it from here." And it wasn't that I set out to do that. It's that that's what it turned out to be. And I think this happens to a lot of people.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  It's like, you, I simply got married where a lot of girls would've just lived, lived with the guy. But because I had a lot of, I was very security oriented, because I'd been a foster child. Marriage was something that was very important to me, 'cause I wanted to be, um, I wanted to be secure. So, when I left that relationship, I consider that relationship to be a success.

• 9:11Lewis Howes?

  And why was your dad in jail?

• 9:13Speaker 02

  He's a drug dealer. His first conviction was for a check forgery. Like, he was like a hustler, sort of grifter. And then he got out of prison in 1972. He became a drug dealer. He went back in 73. He was sort of that guy who gets out for vacations. He would come out, he took me back, and then he would go back in.

• 9:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow, how many times did he go back in?

• 9:38Speaker 02

  He, oh gosh, these are complicated questions. Let's see, he went in in 68, got out in 72, went back in 73, got out in 78, went back in 78, got out in 82. And by that time, I was 18, and I was like, okay, I'm done.

• 9:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  When I was 14, I was like, I don't want to go to prison anymore. It's a bummer, and I don't want to go. And so when he got out of prison, I remember he called me and he said, can I come to your high school graduation? And I was like, I'd really rather you didn't.

• 10:10Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so did he show up or not?

• 10:11Speaker 02

  I actually, I kind of think he might have, but I don't know. You know, we've never even had the conversation.

• 10:17Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  But he wouldn't be, my dad really cared about me. He sent cards for every holiday, every Easter, every birthday. He called me every two weeks without fail. He was there from over there, you know? So he loved me, I knew that. And that was actually a great gift. Like, looking back, I can see, wow, my dad could have just given up on me and just said, oh, forget it. It's too late.

• 10:43Lewis Howes?

  He still was there even when he was there.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  He did, even now. Like, he calls me every two weeks, even now.

• 10:46Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Is he still in jail?

• 10:48Speaker 02

  No, he got out. So he went, he was out for 10 years, and then he went back. And that's where we developed our relationship between the ages of 18 and 28. And he came to visit me a couple times in college, but mostly it was over the phone. You know, he was there. I remember he came to visit me when I was in my first job.

• 11:06Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  And, you know, then he went back. And that time, he got a 23-year sentence. And he served 19 years, and he just got out like a year and a half ago.

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's tough.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  And he's 80 now.

• 11:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my brother went to jail for four and a half years. Sentenced to 6 to 25 for drugs as well.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Wow, state or federal?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Because state sucks and federal's okay.

• 11:30Lewis Howes?

  I don't remember. I was eight to 12, but we would go every weekend and visit him, you know.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Where was it?

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  In Ohio. I'm not sure.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a big deal.

• 11:39Lewis Howes?

  It was pretty, I mean, it was like a huge prison.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  I know. It's intense.

• 11:43Lewis Howes?

  It's like full on getting through the metal detectors.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  That's my life growing up.

• 11:48Lewis Howes?

  So I can relate to you there.

• 11:51Lewis Howes?

  So why didn't the second one work out?

• 11:54Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a good question, too.

• 11:55Lewis Howes?

  And what's the biggest lesson you learned in that marriage?

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Well, you know what? Here's the thing. I'll tell you the biggest lesson I learned in my second marriage.

• 12:02Lewis Howes?

  And as a traditionalist, I'm shocked that you even got divorced.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing I understand.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  You can't, well, let me tell you what I learned. I learned that you can honor a marriage vow without actually being married, right? Like, I should not have married him just because I was pregnant. But being that we're gonna co-parent, I'm gonna be the best co-parent in the world. I'm gonna love, honor, and cherish my child's father. But that doesn't mean I have to be married to him. So there's a way to commit to that other person.

• 12:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  And honor what he is. But the marriage is something else. That's like a spiritual relationship.

• 12:47Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  So where my kid's father is one of the most important people in my life. He's like my, he's somewhere between a brother and a dear cousin. You know what I mean? It's like, I talk to him pretty much every day. Even now, we have a college freshman. We check in every day. Like, he's the first person I would call over the years if anything happened in my life. Good, bad, you know, if I got a new job, I'd call him. Why? Because it's gonna affect him, but also because we're in a family.

• 13:17Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  So I also consider that marriage to be a success. It just wasn't supposed to be he and I. In a house, you know, it's like the commitment is there.

• 13:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  But, I mean, really, what are we talking about? We're talking about a sexual relationship. That's something else.

• 13:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  And I feel like there is a world that we're getting to where people could understand, you can be in a family, but I still had so much more to learn on my life journey. There, I still didn't have the maturity to be able to commit to someone for a lifetime, anytime while I still had eggs. You know what I mean? Some people could be, they would, let's say you were raised in a different way than me and you had hit all your developmental milestones. You could do that.

• 14:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  I was not in a position to do that. And many other people are not in positions to do that. So the question then becomes, how do I be the best mother, the best ex-wife? You know? And to really honor that relationship without stopping my life to fake it for the next 50 years? Because life is too long and too short, paradoxically, to do that. You have to live in your authentic self. And I knew that authentically, that wasn't, like, that wasn't our true relationship, husband and wife.

• 14:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, okay.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Parent was our true relationship. And sometimes you enter into a relationship, like a contract, a marriage situation, not knowing what it really is.

• 14:46Lewis Howes?

  Right, interesting.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  You find out after, you know?

• 14:50Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  I'm not here to say people are, there's only one way to do it. Uh-uh. I think there, it's about finding out who you are. It's about being authentic and being loving in that.

• 15:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  You know?

• 15:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So, the third marriage, what was the biggest lesson you learned and why did it not work out?

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Well, the third marriage, I mean, hindsight is so awesome. Hindsight is so awesome. Well, my third marriage was a person who, in, I was like, this is it. Now, this is what I've been looking for.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  This is the one.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 15:25Lewis Howes?

  This is the marriage. This is the life partner.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  This is it. Now, when you're me and you had this crazy childhood and you find it, buckle up, right?

• 15:35Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Buckle up. Like, I always say, like, if your dad came home every night at 6 o'clock and had dinner and was faithful and wonderful and attuned and loved your mom and never cheated. Go ahead, go to Vegas, elope on your first date, it'll be fine. Because your template, your inner template for what constitutes it is very different from someone whose dad was a lying, cheating criminal.

• 16:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  So it for me is, yeah, whoa. It for my friend, my best friend growing up, whose dad was a super good person? Totally different story. So you gotta know who you are. That's the key to relationships, is to know who you are. And who I am is a person with a lot of unresolved childhood stuff. So when I met him, all that means, like, the higher the intensity of the him-ness or the it-ness, the more unconscious material is gonna come to the surface.

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  Sure, it all came up, all your stuff.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  It all came up.

• 16:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Now, I don't, again, this is why I also consider that marriage to be a success.

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  Did it come up because you didn't wanna sabotage it because he was that great? Or it was that great of potential?

• 16:47Speaker 02

  No, it came up because he was designed. It is the person who's best going to unlock all the click, click, click, click, click, click. It's like all the tumblers fall into place, the safe opens and boom, here comes your stuff.

• 17:00Lewis Howes?

  The avalanche, yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  So, but the beauty of it is-

• 17:03Lewis Howes?

  I feel bad for that guy.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  No, he was a match. He had just as much of his own stuff going on. It's always a match.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  It's always a match. There's no victims.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  You know, there's no victims.

• 17:14Lewis Howes?

  But there must've been explosive.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was intense.

• 17:17Lewis Howes?

  A lot of tension and drama and emotions, right?

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was intense.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  And, but it was intense in exactly the way I needed it to be intense. And I'm presuming it was intense for him in exactly the same way. We're friendly. He calls me twice a year to check in. He comments on my Facebook posts, you know?

• 17:34Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Like, it's, you know why? Because I don't blame him. There's no blame. I get it. He was exactly what I needed to get exactly where I was going. Which was to really start to resolve some of the deeper things that I'd never tapped into. Cause like, my first two husbands were, were people who on paper were perfect. Perfect. They were like from good families and they were nice people. Well, I kinda needed somebody who was a little bit more of a mess. Because that was what was going to take me where I needed to go. And I just hope that whoever's listening, like, this is just something that you catch. This awareness is just something you catch. It's not something that you can really explain. Because it's not precisely logical.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  It's more creative than that. Like, life is creative. And then the way you interact with it is gonna determine what you get out of it. So, I could have this third marriage. One, another person might have had that third marriage and they'd be like, "Oh, he cheated on me after nine months and I'm totally a victim. And this is terrible what happened to me." And that girl learns nothing. Or you could go, "Okay, now, timeout. Let's see how this fits into my deepest beliefs about me. What do I get to examine from what just came up for me? How do I look at my part in this and what I did to get me here?"

• 18:56Lewis Howes?

  What I created, yes.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 18:58Lewis Howes?

  Why did I attract this?

• 18:59Speaker 02

  I created this. Okay, taking a deep breath. And now we're gonna dive in to what's going on with me. And when I did it that way, I've never had to be in that relationship again.

• 19:11Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  And there was actually nothing wrong with that relationship. It was sort of perfect.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  Right, okay.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  So then you bless it and then it becomes beautiful. And it becomes like, life is beautiful, even the gnarly stuff.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  So where are you headed now?

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Well, um, let's see.

• 19:27Lewis Howes?

  That you're willing to share?

• 19:30Lewis Howes?

  What are you looking to create?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Well, I'm in a relationship now. I'm, I'm, I'm, as I said, I, uh, when I got into the relationship I'm in now, I really was very clear on who I am. You know, I'm at that place in life, I'm in middle age, you know?

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  Who are you?

• 19:45Speaker 02

  I'm, um, well, I know I'm here in relationships. I'm here to love more and better. Like, I'm here to practice loving. So it's not about like the other person and like, "Hmm, does it fit, does it check off on my list?" Like, it's not about that. It's about, how do I practice being a loving person? And then I have a big spiritual life, so... The way I do things is I don't consult my ego for what it thinks I should be doing today. I don't go, "Well, what does me think?" You know, I say, "Hey, universe, you know, creative intelligence, show me what you want me to do today and I'll do it. Show me how you want me to love." And so that process that I used to do at the end of a relationship, I now do day by day.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  I'm looking for, "How do I love more and better?" You know? And then I say to the God, I call it God sometimes, "If you don't want me here, take it away."

• 20:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  And I'll let it go, you know? "If you want me here, give me the power to like be loving here."

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay, perfect. And what is this, how does someone marry themselves and what does that mean?

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Well, marrying yourself is basically where you commit to yourself. So what is committing to yourself? Let's say, let's take my relationship history for example, it's a great. Most people would have a hard time marrying that. They'd be like, "Whoa," or they would judge themselves. They would be like, "I can't love you, Tracy. You've made too many mistakes." Like some version of, the short, the short way to say it is, "I suck."

• 21:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  "What's wrong with me?" Instead of going, "It's okay sweetheart. Everyone makes mistakes. It is all right." That's marrying yourself, where you love yourself, you stand by you, you commit to you, no matter what you've done, no matter what has happened. And then as you have that relationship with yourself, now I'm in a place, because I have that relationship with myself, now I'm in a place where I could have that relationship with someone else. Because essentially, if, whatever you've got going on inside, that's what you're gonna do out there in the world. There is only one relationship, the one you're having with yourself. And then you just replicate that in traffic.

• 22:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure, everywhere.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  At work.

• 22:01Lewis Howes?

  Our triggers show up or whatever, yeah. So how do we improve that relationship with ourselves? What are some things we can do every single day as a reminder to make it better every day?

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Well, I think the first thing is to learn to observe. Observe yourself. And then it has to be that you just observe it without the judgment. So I have a few different, I use a lot of visualizing to help myself

• 22:26Speaker 02

  observe without judging. Observe feelings, observe all these things. So without that observation, that that sort of distance, it's just too much reacting. You know, people just react. So first you have to learn to observe yourself. Then you have to learn to be okay with what you see.

• 22:43Lewis Howes?

  Accepting what you see?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, just being okay with it, like, that's okay.

• 22:48Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  That's okay.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  And then maybe there's parts where you're like, oof, I don't know if I can be okay with that. That's okay, too. It's okay to not be okay with that, but I'm willing to be okay. So then the next part is being willing. Just like, am I willing? I don't have to know how I'm gonna solve a problem in me. I just have to be willing to have a new experience.

• 23:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  So to me, as I'm going through my day, little by little, I'm practicing observing, I'm practicing accepting, I'm practicing willingness. Little by little. Everywhere where I feel like I'm stuck or...

• 23:25Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure, yeah. What about forgiveness?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Oh, huge.

• 23:29Lewis Howes?

  And marrying ourselves.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:32Lewis Howes?

  You know, I could make the assumption that someone who's been divorced three times would be hard for them to forgive themselves, potentially. I'm not saying that it's hard for you. Right. The shame, the guilt, or whatever.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Like, really, think about it. There's not one life experience that a person who was being hard on themselves couldn't, I didn't get that job. Like, you idiot. You know what I mean? What's the self-talk? The self-talk has to be kind and loving, you know? And that's where the observation comes in, because people are saying so much stuff to themselves without even knowing they're saying it.

• 24:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So how does someone forgive themselves every day, then?

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Well, I feel like forgiveness, the key to forgiveness is, I always talk about, like, you have to change your story. So, for example, I have these parents who...

• 24:25Speaker 02

  It wasn't so great, you know? My mom was a prostitute and alcoholic and she abandoned me. And my dad was a criminal, you know?

• 24:33Lewis Howes?

  You were in foster.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was in foster care. It wasn't that awesome. So I could be mad at them. So one story goes, I got born and like, they messed me up and like, F them. That's the non forgiveness story. The forgiveness story is, I got born, I took a look around, I said, I can do better than this. And then the universe got me out of there and put me over here. Now, over here wasn't great, but over here, back there was worse.

• 25:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So forgiveness is where I go, oh, I can forgive these people. They were just human beings making mistakes, just like I've made mistakes. Their mistakes were big, but really, it was kind of okay. I was okay.

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Why? Because I am okay. Here I am, you know?

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  What should someone be asking themselves when evaluating their relationships? Whether it be an intimate relationship, a friendship, a family relationship? If it's serving them to the highest power? Or if it's supporting them to be their best self as well?

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:42Lewis Howes?

  Obviously, you said the only relationship is the one we have with ourselves.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:46Lewis Howes?

  It really doesn't matter what other people do or say. If we have our relationship solid and we marry ourselves every day is what I'm hearing you say.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:53Lewis Howes?

  But I also think that we're here to connect and be in relationship with other human beings.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  So how do we know that when we are connecting? How do we evaluate that? What questions should we be asking ourselves to know that it's the best community we're in?

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Well, again, this is where I engage with the, with faith. And I engage with like a higher power. Because, you know, I'm down here on the human plane. It is not Google satellite view. It's not Google Earth. You're not way up here in your life going, having a crystal ball, knowing everything. So for me, You know, in one way, you wanna note how you feel. But then in another way, it's like, there's not one relationship on this planet that doesn't, that feels good all the time.

• 26:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Because when you're coming up against your own material, it doesn't feel good. So you have to be willing to not feel good.

• 26:50Lewis Howes?

  A lot of the time.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes, a lot of the time, you know, it's more like, sometimes you don't feel good, a lot of the time.

• 26:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Sometimes you feel good most of the time. It's like, you just have to roll with it. So how do I, I was on the phone with a girl yesterday who, um, and she's like, well, how do I know if this relationship is right for me? I'm like, I wouldn't think so much in those terms. I would say, what am I here to learn today? What is this relationship teaching me today?

• 27:18Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  What is it asking me to look at in myself? Why don't I just look at that?

• 27:22Lewis Howes?

  Right now.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Right this second, yes.

• 27:25Lewis Howes?

  Not worrying about like five years from now, is it gonna work out? Or what happens if this happens in the future?

• 27:30Speaker 02

  And not even focusing on the relationship, focusing on myself and what I'm here to look at. Okay, and then see what happens as I start to look at myself and focus on what I'm learning and practicing what I need to practice, because there's always a lesson. There's always a practice, spiritual practice.

• 27:46Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  A growth that's trying to happen. So as I focus on that growth, what I've found is that the relationship tends to find an equilibrium, you know? And then if it's supposed to go away, it will just go away and it will easily go away with ease and grace.

• 28:01Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  If it's supposed to stay, it will stay. And I will somehow make it through that tough day or that tough week or whatever it is. So I sort of take the focus off.

• 28:11Lewis Howes?

  Is this the right person for me?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  That's not the right question.

• 28:14Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  I don't think it's the right question. I think that leads us to swap out people.

• 28:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  And there I still am.

• 28:21Lewis Howes?

  And putting it on other people, not on ourselves. Saying, I haven't found the right fit yet or whatever. So I'm gonna keep swapping around and keep going from guy to guy or girl to girl.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  And like, I'm that person who, I always joke that I'm that person who I could be lying, if like, if I did that and just did what came naturally to me, I would be lying on my deathbed, holding the hand of my new boyfriend. Because I'm just gonna-

• 28:44Lewis Howes?

  That you met like six months prior.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I'm just gonna keep swapping out for the next person. Not everybody's like that, but I know that I am.

• 28:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Again, it's about knowing yourself.

• 28:53Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  You know?

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  I like that. I like that. What's the importance of humor during all the challenging, messy times, frustrating, triggering times that come up for you?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  To me, it's everything. Like, I think everything's funny.

• 29:08Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  It's all funny. There is a humorous aspect to everything because-

• 29:11Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think people so much, put so much weight on these situations that come up for them in relationships, or he or she did said this?

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think there's so much weight?

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Usually, it's, to me, it's like some unresolved childhood thing. Like, basically, there's a saying, if I'm hysterical, it's historical. So if like, if I'm having a big, giant reaction to something, it's old.

• 29:34Lewis Howes?

  There's a reason.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  It's old. It's from history. It's from mommy, daddy, toddler, I don't know when, but it's old.

• 29:42Lewis Howes?

  Because you're reacting based on a fear or a trigger or something that caused that in the past.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  It's so much bigger, yes.

• 29:48Lewis Howes?

  Than the moment.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Exactly. If the, if the, uh, reaction is super big to like, a very small thing, chances are it's related to something in the past, like something old.

• 29:58Lewis Howes?

  So how does someone be aware of that to, let's say, we're in a relationship and you freak out for some reason or something? How can I then work with my partner-

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:08Lewis Howes?

  in that moment to not react and be like, you crazy woman?

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 30:13Lewis Howes?

  Which would be a trigger for me in my past to do the same thing. How can someone be, you know, trained to-

• 30:19Speaker 02

  That's hard. That is really hard work.

• 30:22Lewis Howes?

  Be calm and loving and humorous, but not offensive in the moment?

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's the key. Well, I think the first thing is to know is that if we were really into each other when we first met, chances are the stuff that triggers me is gonna interlock with the stuff that triggers you. So we just gotta know, if, we're gonna spend a whole, probably, year, or maybe more- Just crashing into each other.

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Just crashing into each other like, I'm gonna have one of my big reactions. That's gonna trigger some really old stuff for you. And then that's gonna trigger really old stuff for me. And then duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Then it's time to roll up your sleeves and get to work.

• 30:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  In the relationship. So that's like maybe, you know, somewhere between. Let's say you have your first fight about six months in, somewhere in there. The honeymoon wears off somewhere between a year and 18 months. It's like, you know, and this is all chemical. There's like all these neurotransmitters that are happening for the first six to 18 months that gradually drop off and then things start to get real.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  And so then these triggers will happen. And if you know that's coming, then it's like, I mean, I recommend therapy for everybody, you know? And if it's too intense to do therapy together, then you do it on your own. And they say, you know, you bring your problems to your therapy and your, um, whatever you're doing to like grow as a human and you bring the solutions to the relationship. So then as you work through these and you stay committed, one day at a time, you're staying committed, staying committed. And then as these things, little by little, you'll start to see, they'll start to like, you'll get a little bit of space in there where I have a reaction and this time you're able to be not triggered.

• 32:01Lewis Howes?

  More compassionate, rubbing.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Well, and just be detached, like, oh, that's Tracy and her dad thing again.

• 32:08Lewis Howes?

  Right. And I don't have to take it personal this time.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. But that, I don't think anybody should be surprised when that takes a couple of years.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  Right. Especially if you haven't been trained or you don't have tools.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  On how to handle those emotions, because it can be very messy.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  And our egos can get in the way and mess things up even more.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  And now, exactly. And at times, people will choose a partner who doesn't trigger them that much. That's another solution. But a lot of times, those relationships aren't as rich because being.

• 32:37Lewis Howes?

  Triggered.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Is really an opportunity to resolve a bunch of stuff. It's like a really rich place.

• 32:42Lewis Howes?

  What happens if after two years, you're not being triggered anymore by your partner? Does that mean you should just go on to the next one or it's not rich anymore?

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Different people have different, again, this is where you gotta know who you are. Like some people, I want a certain amount of intensity. I know that.

• 32:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  I want like a dynamic, whoa, operating.

• 33:03Lewis Howes?

  Passionate.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Yes, that's what I need. Now, I've had them quite a relationship and that isn't, doesn't fit me as well.

• 33:08Lewis Howes?

  Not as spicy and.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  It's just that I'm interested in, it's like some people are interested in like the black diamond ski run and other people, you know, and it's, there's no right or wrong.

• 33:20Lewis Howes?

  One thing green.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  It's just about what's right for you and are you a match with your partner? You know, I think sometimes people pick, before they become aware, they pick their shadow. You know, they pick their unowned, you know, the part of themselves that they have disowned. So there'll be one really quiet person and one really intense person.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  But I do think as you know yourself better and you sort of take back all the parts of yourself that are in your peripheral vision. Cause I think when you're young, you have a tendency to put a lot of stuff and it's back here and it'll show up as the outside world.

• 33:56Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Does that make sense?

• 33:57Lewis Howes?

  Sure, yeah.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  And so, um, the more you get to know yourself and you do this self-work of like marrying yourself, knowing yourself, um, owning your negative, uh, let's call them negative traits.

• 34:12Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  They tend to show up less and you're like more okay. You just gotta know who you are and have the relationship that fits kind of how you like to live. Some people like to live in a big city, some people like the country, it's just.

• 34:23Lewis Howes?

  Right. Uh, in general, in America, what do you think women need to

• 34:30Lewis Howes?

  have more of?

• 34:33Speaker 02

  It's a great question. I think, I mean, I would say.

• 34:37Lewis Howes?

  Again, in general, this is not.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. I do think it comes down to the self-love piece.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  Women should have more self-love.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  And like, what is self-love? It's not, I'll tell you what it's not. It's not, I'm so fabulous. It's not.

• 34:53Lewis Howes?

  It's not ego-driven.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not external. Self-love is where you are taking such good care of yourself. And I mean emotional care. Cause this, there's a lot of responsibility that goes along with that. I think it's easy for women to think, I'm gonna marry a guy who's, who's gonna love me. I'm gonna marry a guy who's gonna give me a house. I'm gonna marry a guy who, without thinking, I'm gonna love me. Love yourself like you want a man to love you.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Do for yourself what you want a man to do for you.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Like, consider yourself the person, like, it's an honor to do that for me. And I'm not looking for a man to do that. That is the number one thing that's gonna make your relationships go on a whole other plane. Because I think it's very easy, we're taught, it's not just Cinderella and Prince Charming. It's really about like, um, you want the, you want somebody to take care of you, and I put that in quotes. Take care of you, instead of taking care of yourself.

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, why do you think so many women don't take care of themselves? Because I see this a lot, you know, I see a lot of women. I'm like, just go get a massage once in a while, or just go take some time to like relax, or go read a book by the beach, or whatever, it's like, I feel like a lot of women aren't doing that. Why do you think that is?

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Well, I think there's two reasons. One is that, um, self-worth. We don't feel like we're worth it.

• 36:29Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  And number two, maybe we believe that it's more valuable coming from someone else. Like, if you don't value yourself, you think, well, so what if I like me? What matters is if he likes me, or if they like me. But you have to make you so valuable to you, that when you takes care of you, it feels good, and you're like, this feels so good. Like, you know, I wanted a house, that was my big dream, because I was a foster child, like, you know, I'm obsessed with real estate, I love real estate, like other people love the Yankees, you know? I'm like, I always know all the houses, and I go to open houses, and I read the house ads, and I'm like, in the houses.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  But I really believed that a man was the only way I was gonna get a house. I did not believe I was gonna do that for myself. And of course, I mean, it's a long story. I could write a whole book about that. But essentially, I mean, I'll tell you a little story. So when I married my third husband, we started looking for a house. And we looked at this house. It was the world's cutest house. We put an offer on it and we didn't get it. Well, all hell broke loose and we broke up like nine months later.

• 37:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  And five years passed. And because I get the listings every day, I saw that house came back on the market. Somebody else got the house. I saw the house came back and I'm like, oh, there's that house. Oh, my God. And my friend's like, you should go look at it just for fun. So I went and looked at it. And the long and the short of it is now I live in that house.

• 38:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  It almost makes me want to cry.

• 38:07Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  And I bought that house by myself. Because in the in between, after that husband and I broke up, that was like the beginning of my, okay, I'm gonna take care of me. And I wrote this script that I didn't know anything was gonna happen with it. And it got me an agent.

• 38:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  I started writing television. I sold a book. Like, all these things started to happen in my life after I came to that place. After that third husband cheated and then left, I was like, Tracy, I love you. Doesn't matter if he left. Doesn't matter if he's dating a 20-year-old. Doesn't matter, you are worthy. So as I practiced that one day at a time, practice, practice, practice, I took all these actions in line with somebody who feels like she's worthy.

• 38:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  I finished the thing. I sat down and wrote every day. I did these things. And, you know, things started to happen. And I remember I was on United States of Tara. I was a television writer. I'd been writing TV for probably, I guess, like, two and a half years. And this house comes back on the market. And I bought that house by myself.

• 39:19Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  With my own money. And there's not a day that goes by that I don't sit in my home and go, I love my house. Like, I take out the garbage and I'll be like, I'll see that my house is all lit up. And I'm like, I love my house. Like sometimes I just wanna go back in the house, get some more garbage and take it out so I can go, oh, my house. Because that's what it feels like when you take care of yourself, when you are loving yourself, it feels super good. And when you start to make relationships from that place, they are entirely different relationships. So if I could say anything to American women, it's really about knowing the most important relationship you're having is with yourself

• 40:03Speaker 02

  and that anything you want, a man or a job or an outfit to do for you, you really can do.

• 40:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I love that. That's a great answer. And I asked a question to our mutual friend, Matt Hussey, and, or someone asked a question, we were doing a Periscope Live. It was like, what's the best way to like, how do you find the man of your dreams type of question, right? Like, how do you find the one or whatever? And he said, something that I'd never heard before. He said, create a list of all the things you want from this man, and then go be those things.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:35Lewis Howes?

  I was like, oh, that just hit the heart, right? Because I hear these women are like, I have all these things on this list, I want the man to be funny and sexy and make a lot of money and this and this and this and have a career. But they're broke and they're miserable and they're like this and this. And I'm like, how do you expect to have that when you're not being that?

• 40:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally.

• 40:51Lewis Howes?

  And I'm like, that was a great message.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to be it.

• 40:53Lewis Howes?

  You have to be everything you want. You've gotta be it first and then you're gonna create it. So what do you think is something that all men should have more of?

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Self-love.

• 41:03Lewis Howes?

  So I heard self-worth or self-love from men?

• 41:05Speaker 02

  I think it's the same thing.

• 41:06Lewis Howes?

  Same thing.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Men need the same thing. Because, you know, it's not like, I had a friend once who felt like, women are gold diggers and they all just want duh-duh-duh. Well, if you're a man with self-worth, that gold digger woman is not attractive to you.

• 41:24Lewis Howes?

  No, you're not even looking at her.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  You're not even looking at her. But the truth was, is that he was into big boobs.

• 41:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  And like, the gold digger girls are not them. They're like, I wanna go buy some big boobs.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Because, you know what I mean?

• 41:38Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna try it, oh, there you go.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, because the gold digger girl is a match for the big boob loving man. It's like, if a man treats a woman like an object... He's gonna find a woman who's gonna treat him like an object.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  And treats herself like an object.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  And treats herself like an object.

• 41:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  And treats him like an object, cuz men can be objectified.

• 41:56Lewis Howes?

  To get what I want, to get what I want.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Exactly. And like when a woman is just like, this is what you see a lot on The Bachelor. Like you see a lot of like, objectification. The girls objectify themselves, and then they objectify the man, and they're like, I'm gonna get that thing. There's no friendship, there's no loving, it's about, it's acquisition. Yeah, it's about acquisition. So, men have to really come from a place of self-love as well, or they are going to open, it's like when people are like, um, men love bitches. I'm like, no, that's like saying women love bad boys. Yes, women with low self-esteem love bad boys. Men with low self-esteem love bitches, but if you love yourself.

• 42:40Lewis Howes?

  You're not gonna put up with that.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I love it.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Just, you're just like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm not a match for that. And frankly, people know what they're looking for. We're mammals. That's what I'm always saying. We're mammals, so people know on a very unconscious animal level, what you're about, in that quick.

• 43:00Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  They just sit across from me and they're like, okay, this person I can do my game on, that person I cannot. You know what I mean? It's like.

• 43:06Lewis Howes?

  Subconsciously.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, we are supercomputers.

• 43:09Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:10Lewis Howes?

  What's your definition of love?

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, well, I have so many. Um, love to me, like, the biggest definition is it's it's like that pervasive force that is everywhere. And that, when you tune into it, you're in it. And it, it's not, um, it can be extrapolated in any direction. It could be in your work, it could be, you know, walking down the street, it could be in a love relationship, like a sexual relationship, it could be between parent and child. So there's just like this thing that is there, and it's it's always there, it's everywhere, and you can tune into it, or not. So when you tune into that, you're in love.

• 43:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  So, and then from there comes, um, what we think of as like romantic love, or romantic love is To me, it's service. It's like, it's like, I'm here to help you become more you, for me to become more me, and to walk a path with you.

• 44:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  And just like, in my relationship, we talk a lot about sitting on the end of the bed for the other person, you know, like, I just, sometimes you just, you need a friend, it's just somebody to sit on the end of the bed. It's like a witness.

• 44:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What do you think is a, some things that men and women can do every single day to increase their self-worth, self-love, care? What's like a ritual they could do, a practice that's like, every day, you do these two, three, four things, it's just automatically gonna happen, you're gonna increase it.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Well...

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  Something simple, it doesn't take a lot of money, or, you know, just something that people could do, every single morning, every single night, day, to increase...

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Well, I think you can do affirmations. I do a lot of affirmations. I, I think, again, you go back to that observe, the observation part, where that's basically meditation, where you sit still and you observe. It could be in traffic, it could be moving through your day, you observe what's going on in your mind. And once you start to see what's going on in your mind, then, when you're having the negative thoughts, you counter those negative thoughts. You don't just let them sit there, or, and you don't like, chase them around, and you, I look at it like, um, I have visuals, like I said. I, one of them is like, the old-school video game, you know, like, Asteroids. And then the thing comes on the screen, you gotta shoot it off, the second you see it. You don't like, let it sit there and watch it going back and forth,

• 45:38Speaker 02

  because it's gonna start letting off all sorts of other little rockets, you know? And pretty soon, you're inundated with like, rockets, and it's like, boom!

• 45:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  So, um, I think that when you see those kinds of thoughts, that you, you start to identify what kinds of thoughts you're having all the time, and you start to see the themes, you know? People have themes.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  And once you start seeing that stuff, you counter it. Like, for example, um, um, whenever I say, "I don't have something," well, not yet, now I changed it, until now. You know, like, let's say it's like, or I'm willing. So a lot of it is just changing my thinking. That's free. And that's something you can start to do.

• 46:20Lewis Howes?

  Our language.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  And I'm really disciplined in the stuff I, I say. I'm very disciplined. I do not speak on things I don't want. Like if it's like, well, I'm never gonna get that. Or a great job. It's like, well, I'm willing to get that great job.

• 46:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  Cause so much of it is about my willingness. What's happening in here?

• 46:43Lewis Howes?

  Love it. Final few questions for you. This has been great. Before I ask those, where should people learn more about you and connect with you? And you've got a new book out. What's it called?

• 46:53Speaker 02

  I have a new book out on Tuesday, March 8th. It's called Multiple Listings. It's a novel. It's my first novel. It's sort of based on, it's like inspired by my life, but it's not an autobiography. It's not a memoir at all. It's, um, it's essentially about a guy who gets out of jail after 17 years and shows up on his grown daughter's doorstep. And she's got a teenage son. And then from there, it's really a story about forgiveness. It's a story about love. It's about healing and families.

• 47:23Lewis Howes?

  Cool. You've got another book called Why You're Not Married Yet.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Why You're Not Married Yet. That's a sort of comedic self-help. It's basically, if you like what I'm saying now, you will love that book. Because it's just this conversation in a book.

• 47:37Lewis Howes?

  Real talk.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, real talk and it's funny. And I talk a lot about the mistakes I've made and it's helpful for people. And then I wrote a memoir called I Love You and I'm Leaving You Anyway. And that's really the story of my life.

• 47:50Lewis Howes?

  I love it. And where should we follow you? Where do you hang out the most on social media?

• 47:54Speaker 02

  I'm probably the most on Twitter. I like to tweet The Bachelor, at Tracy McMillan. Yep, but I have a great Facebook page that I post. You know, I do different things in each space. On Facebook, you can find me there. I post things that I find interesting and I share my little wisdom.

• 48:10Lewis Howes?

  Awesome, awesome. So we'll have it all linked up here. Make sure to follow Tracy over there. Final few questions. What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

• 48:19Speaker 02

  You know what? I'm grateful for everything in my life. I feel, I was just saying this last night. I, nothing is missing from my life. This is the beauty of being 51. Like life is, people are like, getting old sucks. I'm like, that's not true. That is not true. There is not one thing missing from my life. Not one thing.

• 48:41Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  I have work that I love. I have a grown kid who's thriving. I mean, even if I didn't have a grown kid, do you know what I mean? Even if I didn't have work that I love, there is a sense of like peace in here. That I'm good. And why am I good? Because I know why I'm here. Like, I'm here to be of service. I'm here to like share experience and like just light up my little corner of the universe. And it's just, I don't know, I feel useful. There's not one thing missing, and I have my little house, you know? It's great. I love it.

• 49:18Lewis Howes?

  Perfect.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:20Lewis Howes?

  It's many, many years from now. And everything you've written on TV and said and all your books, they've all been erased.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  And you have everyone you love. Hopefully, it's not your 10th husband by your side, but everyone you love is all there. You're a piece. And they say, "We don't have anything else to remember you by because it's been erased."

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:41Lewis Howes?

  But we have a piece of paper. You have to write down three truths. Three things that you know to be true about life and the world that we will take and use as lessons for our lives. For the world to see. What would you write down as those three truths?

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. You know, I'm a writer, so I would want to think about that, think about that in traffic.

• 50:02Lewis Howes?

  In the moment.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  I would say the first thing I would say that just the first thing that came to my mind is that you keep what you give away. So what that means is whatever you give to the world, whatever you believe, whatever you're putting out there, that's what you're going to experience. That's what you're going to experience. So you really do determine your own experience in that way. People don't think that. They think that something, stuff's happening to them. So I would say you keep what you give away. I would say, um, love is all there is. Love is all there is. There really isn't anything else. All the other stuff is just sort of temporary. You could focus on it if you want to, but you don't have to. There's something bigger than every bad thing.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Something bigger than that. And you see people in the world who know that, who practice that. Tragedies happen to them and then they rise above it. They make it mean something. And I guess that would be the last thing I would say is like, make meaning out of life. That's what it's about. Try to find meaning. Give meaning. Think about meaning. What is, what do I want this to mean? What do I want to be about?

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  Sure. That's a great truth. Thanks for sharing that. Uh, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Tracy, for showing up in an open, loving, vulnerable, creative, fun way in this interview, but also for consistently doing the work and being there for free to so many people that call you and reach out to your feedback and support because you've gone through a lot in life. From childhood stuff to multiple marriages, you've got a lot to share. And I think it's incredible that you continue to step up to support others in giving your knowledge away.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 51:45Lewis Howes?

  Just want to acknowledge you for the work you do. And the final question is what's your definition of greatness?

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Oh, I want to say like the places where, and this is something I say, and it's like the places where you have your biggest challenges are the places where you have the most to give. And I feel like greatness is stepping into that. It's like allowing that. And what that means is that you have to accept where your biggest challenges are. And it's, it takes greatness to lean into your challenges. You could spend a lifetime on the run from whatever is hardest for you, whatever is most difficult. You could just bury yourself in drugs or alcohol or work or whatever, but it takes greatness to lean into that.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  And, cause from that is where your real gift is that you have to give the world, so.

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, Tracy, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate it.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you. It's really great to be here.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  There you have it guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode with Tracy. If you did, make sure to send a message over on Twitter and tag me on Instagram, letting me know what you thought about this. Also tweet Tracy McMillan. You can check out all of the show notes of how to connect with her, her new book, and all that good stuff, including watching the full video interview over at LewisHowes.com/308. Also, if you haven't subscribed to the YouTube channel yet, make sure to go to YouTube slash Lewis Howes. We've got a ton of great content, video interviews, inspirational messages. We're releasing videos three days a week, and it's gonna continue to get bigger and better. So make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  We'll have everything linked up at the show notes at LewisHowes.com/308. If you enjoyed this, make sure to share with your friends over on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and all the places online that you like to hang out. And if this is your first time listening to a School of Greatness podcast, then please subscribe over on iTunes, Stitcher, or SoundCloud, and let me know what you think. I appreciate you guys, I love you very much. And to close it out with the quote that we've used in the beginning of this episode, "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." You guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.