282 Dr. Peter Osborne on the Honest Truth About Gluten and Your Health

"If you put in garbage, your outcome is going to be garbage." - Dr. Peter Osborne If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at http://lewishowes.com/282 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 282 with Dr. Peter Osborne.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to this interview today. Very excited about our guest and our topic because it's something I've been experimenting with and testing over this last month, but also on and off for the last few years with my health. And some of the main things that we're covering today is what gluten actually is and what is found in. If you're not gluten sensitive, should you still stay away from eating it? What about all those cheat days that people talk about? The top leading causes of death in the U.S. and why are they are food induced? How to get your mind on board with switching to a no gluten diet and so much more that we cover.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  And our guest is none other than Dr. Peter Osborne, who is a chiropractor and a board certified clinical nutritionist. He is licensed with a Pastoral Medicine Association and is a doctor of pastoral science and medicine. He's been practicing since 2001. His clinical focus is the holistic natural treatment of chronic degenerative musculoskeletal diseases. He is an expert in the relationship that gluten sensitivity and food allergies play in chronic inflammation. And he has helped thousands of patients recover from chronic painful conditions. So if you feel like you're curious about learning this information, or you know someone who is affected by gluten

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  or any type of food sensitivity or food allergies or anything with chronic inflammation, then make sure to listen to this and share this episode with your friend, with your family member.

• 2:04Lewis Howes?

  Because this is impacting many people, specifically in America and all around the world in a negative way, and it must stop if we want to live a better, healthier, a longer life and be happier in the process. So I hope you guys enjoy this one. I found it very interesting and very intriguing with the information and the research that's out there right now. So let's dive in and introduce you to the one and only Dr. Peter Osborne. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. Super pumped for today. Our guest is Dr. Peter Osborne. How's it going, Peter?

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Oh, doing great. Thanks for having me, Lewis.

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I wanna, I wanna dive right in here, because you've got a new book out called No Grain, No Pain. It's a 30 Day Diet for Eliminating the Root Cause of Chronic Pain. And this is something that I, I'm actually this week, doing some different tests on my own body. You know, it's the beginning of the year. I'm really trying different things out and I'm doing no gluten this week. And for about two months, back in 2010, I was about 30 pounds heavier than I am now. And I decided to go off all gluten and sugar for, for two months and I lost 30 pounds in the first 30 days. And I felt this incredible

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  weight, emotional weight lifted off of me as well at the same time. And I remember what, after this like couple of months of not having gluten, I was like, okay, I'm gonna celebrate. I'm gonna have a big bowl of pasta. And I literally, I've never been drunk in my life. I've never, you know, I've had sips of alcohol, but I've never been drunk. But I, I ate this pasta and I went for a drive afterwards. My friend was driving and I literally could not get out of the car. I was like a zombie when we got, when we stopped. I was, I don't know, I felt like the sensation of being drunk, only worse. And

• 4:04Lewis Howes?

  I realized that it had a huge effect on my body and I'm assuming that it always has. It's always weighed me down. As an athlete, I always used to have lots of pasta and pizza and bread right before a game and I realized I probably limited myself and I never reached my full potential. So I'm excited to dive in to learn about how you became first, you know, an expert in this topic of essentially gluten-free and why we should be living this way and why it's the root of chronic pain. So first off, how did you get into this topic and why are you so passionate about it?

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Well, I actually started at working, I was working in the VA hospital during graduate school and interning through the rheumatology department. So we saw, you know, all kinds of chronic pain patients with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus and dermatomyositis and scleroderma. You know, all these very debilitating joint eroding autoimmune conditions. And nobody ever got better. That was the point of frustration for me was that all these people come through, they'd be put on these powerful anti-cancer medications like methotrexate and these powerful anti-inflammatories. But, but they really weren't better and they'd end up in a surgical consult with a joint replacement surgery anyway.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  So to me, it was almost like an exercise in futility because a lot of the drugs, what the side effects of a lot of the drugs that were being used were horrific. And so I asked the fundamental question, why are we, why are we, why do we continue to do the same thing repetitively? Why don't we change the nature of what we're doing? And nobody else seemed to be on board with me. But I, I spent a number of, a number of weeks in the medical library here in Houston, Jesse Jones Medical Library, burning the midnight oil, just researching autoimmune disease. And I, and I came to two fundamental light bulb moments. One of them was the only known cause for autoimmune disease that was scientifically validated was celiac disease and that, that was gluten.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  And then the other thing was that when you took these patients with autoimmune pain conditions and you fasted them, you took away food altogether, a lot of them would be pain-free within 48 hours. And to me, it just spoke very loudly that, you know, food is part of the problem, at least, and so we should at least begin the investigation of that process. So I took stacks of literature to my attending physician and I was pretty much laughed out of the room and told, you know, that we're not going to do this. And so I left there. I couldn't work in that kind of environment. I ended up leaving and started my own practice. One of my first patients was terminal. A little girl, she was terminal, she had six months to live. She had a disease called juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. She had a permanent stent embedded in her arm because she was in and out of the hospital

• 6:48Speaker 02

  so frequently. And anyway, today, she's getting ready to graduate high school. She's off all medications, stent's out of her arm, and it was diet change, very simply put it. And it saved her life, literally, within a year. So from six months to live, Make-A-Wish Foundation granting her wish, to I'm no longer dying and I'm thriving, all because we looked at gluten and grain as a culprit in her disease. And to me, that message was just so powerful, I knew I had to get it out to more people in the world because frankly, 100 million people currently are diagnosed with some form of autoimmune disease. It's the number one condition in the United States.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  It's right. Now, what's the definition of autoimmune disease? Just so we know. What does it mean? It's when your immune system becomes overly ambitious and confused and starts to attack your own tissue. And there are about 140 different forms of autoimmune disease. Celiac is one of them, rheumatoid arthritis, Hashimoto's, so low thyroid or hypothyroidism.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Addison's disease, dermatomyositis, there are some conditions now being, it's now being studied that osteoporosis is actually has an autoimmune component. Several cancers have an autoimmune component. Some forms of heart disease have autoimmune as the, as the cause of the origin. So it's a much more prevalent problem than what people realize. And the reason why is that when, when medically, when we put out the statistics about what diseases exist and how many people die from X, Y, or Z, we clump all cancers together and we clump all forms of heart disease together, but we do not clump all forms of autoimmune disease together. We separate them out as individual diseases. And so it takes the

• 8:42Speaker 02

  back burner to research and it takes the back burner to attention.

• 8:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Okay. Fascinating. So I want to go over some myths and have you answer and let me know the facts and the myths, if that's okay with you.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 8:58Lewis Howes?

  Okay, about gluten. Myth, gluten is only found in wheat, barley, and rye, and sometimes in oats. Is that a?

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's, yeah, that's the commonality or the common thought process is that if you go gluten free, you can go down the gluten free aisle at the grocery store and buy all these other products that are full of corn and rice and sorghum, some of these other grains. And the, and the reality is, is that there's no such thing as a gluten free grain. By definition, gluten is defined as the family of proteins found within the seeds of grass. So oats, they're a grass, corn's a grass, rice is a grass. So a lot of these people, they're gravitating toward these, you know, quote unquote gluten free substitutes and what's happening. And even this, the, the research validates this. The, at the last study that was done showed that 92% of people going on a gluten free diet had persistent

• 9:49Speaker 02

  inflammation because they were eating these other forms of gluten.

• 9:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Okay. So I didn't, I wasn't even aware of this. So corn and these other grains, that isn't quote unquote gluten, what that's in the gluten free aisle, it still can create inflammation in the body is what you're saying?

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Right. So they, yeah, the FDA only, there's a, there's a name of a form, there's a, there's more than a thousand types of gluten. A lot of people don't realize this. And, and there's more than 400 forms of gluten in wheat alone. Now, of all the types of gluten, there's one particular type of gluten and its name is alpha gliadin, and it was discovered in 1952. And the new FDA gluten definition is based on, on research that dates back to the 50s. And, and so we're only calling gluten free, or we're only calling foods with gluten, foods that contain this alpha gliadin. So if the food doesn't contain alpha gliadin, they can call it gluten free by law. That's the FDA law on gluten labeling.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  So again, corn, the name, one of the names of, or one of the glutens found in corn is called zine, or zane. And, um, and this particular gluten is, is been found in a 2012 study to be just as detrimental to people with gluten sensitivity as the alpha gliadin found in wheat. It, it's just not common knowledge. It's not being taught. The, the, the doctors who are diagnosing celiac disease and telling people to go gluten free are encouraging them to eat corn and rice as substitutes, as opposed to educating them about this newer research that's coming out. It's quite alarming.

• 11:23Lewis Howes?

  So corn and rice, you're saying is essentially not that good for us to eat as well?

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So what, I mean, here's the challenge. It feels like corn or some type of wheat or gluten or, uh, these other substitutes are in every type of food. You know, I'm in LA, so there's all these different vegan and, uh, you know, vegetarian restaurants that, that don't have gluten as well, but they put other substitutes in. It sounds like those substitutes aren't healthy for us either. So if that's the case, what should we be eating to have an optimal body, mind, spirit, soul?

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Well, that answer is dependent on the person. So one of the things you mentioned is you're getting some tests done to kind of, to kind of figure out how to better improve your health. So as a clinician, I have a clinic in Sugar Land and one of the things that I do with every patient is I test what they're allergic to, what they're not allergic to, whether or not they have gluten sensitivity, whether or not they have leaky gut, whether or not they have vitamin and mineral deficiencies, so that we can put together the exact blueprint that that patient needs to follow to regain their health. But if we're just generalizing and we're saying, okay, let's work under the assumption that the person could benefit from a grain-free diet, and we're saying, what can that person eat? Well, meat, vegetables,

• 12:40Speaker 02

  fruits, nuts, seeds, those are probably going to be the best food groups that person can consume. And then there's some general rules under those guidelines, like don't buy commercial farmed beef, get grass-fed, pasture-raised beef, because the way we feed and treat animals reflects in their own health. And if we eat an unhealthy animal tissue, then you always hear that, especially with the vegetarian community, is that beef contributes to heart disease. Beef does not contribute to heart disease. Unhealthy beef contributes to heart disease. So when you take a cow and you lock them up in a six-by-six pen and you force-feed them genetically-modified grain full of pesticides and mycotoxins and mold fungus,

• 13:25Speaker 02

  that's going to be a sick animal. And so we eat that sick animal's flesh and then we blame beef as a whole for causing heart disease. So we look toward what we're eating and we gravitate toward smarter choices, organic, free-range, pasture, wild-caught instead of farm-raised. Those are the choices that we want to tend to gravitate toward.

• 13:45Lewis Howes?

  So if we're not gluten-sensitive, is it okay for us to be able to eat foods with gluten in it? Or should we stay away from them all in all, even if we have no sensitivities or celiac's or any of those conditions?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Well, if you have any form of autoimmune disease, you should have gluten sensitivity ruled out immediately. If you don't, you could still benefit from a grain-free diet, and here's why. We all talk about gluten as the devil, so to say, that is the culprit for all these different problems. But it's so much deeper than gluten. That's why the title of the book is No Grain, No Pain, Not No Gluten, No Pain. If we look at gluten itself, gluten is a family of proteins found in grains, and it can create inflammatory damage. But there are four other classes of proteins that we've identified within grain. Some of these proteins create gastrointestinal inflammation and cause leaky gut. And this has been very well established.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Studies at Harvard have established these things. We also know that there are families of proteins in grain that shut down your pancreas. So your pancreas is responsible for regulating blood sugar, but also responsible for producing digestive enzymes. And if you're taking in a food as a staple every day that slows down its function, then you have a harder time processing the nutrients from the food that you eat. And so you slowly become malnourished over time. But then we also have the vast majority of grains and the way they're farmed in this country. We've got the chemical glyphosate, which is also known as Roundup. It's basically, it's a weed killer. And another one called atrazine.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Well, when we grow grain, we saturate the field in these chemicals. Atrazine is a, it's a chemical that mimics estrogen. So for men, it becomes a problem, increasing the risk of prostate disease and other problems, increasing the risk of muscle loss. Because when you eat foods that are high in estrogenic compounds, it's harder to gain muscle, it's harder to be athletic, it's harder to, you know, to train and overcome. So you've got the pesticides. And then you have Roundup, which is a different kind of pesticide, which causes leaky gut, it's toxic to humans. But the grain has been saturated in it. And we're eating eight servings of the grain a day. And so we're getting much, much more exposure to these pesticides over time. And so that's another aspect.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  And then it's the way that the grain is stored. A number of forms of grain, the way they're stored in these big silos, and they're stored for lengthy periods of time. And they actually grow, mold grows within these grains. And it's actually been, it's very well studied that mold is a common problem in grain storage. But not just mold. And understand that it's estimated that about 30 to 40% of the population has a mold allergy. So here's this, you know, you've got a large quantity of people who potentially are allergic to mold are going to have a problem with grain and it has nothing to do with gluten. But then you have this other aspect from mold, which is called a mycotoxin. So it's, think of it like mold poop. It's like a chemical compound that the mold makes. Oh, man. And these mycotoxins are extremely dangerous.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  And some of the foods that are highest in mycotoxins. Are the gluten free, the foods on the gluten free food aisle? And it's because

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  What's that, quinoa or what?

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Quinoa and corn and rice. So, so you've got, you know, you've got mold, you've got mycotoxins, you've got pesticides, you've got the fact that some of these grains are genetically modified. Also, some of these grains are very, very high in heavy metals. Corn is high in mercury. Rice is high in arsenic and cadmium. So you've got, you know, people that are eating these grains as a staple food. You know, they're eating, I mean, 50 to 50% or more of their calories primarily coming from grain with all these other chemical compounds also found in the grain. Over time, it creates, it basically creates a deterioration in those, in those individuals' health. So the old school argument is that you need grain to get fiber, right? And that grain is super nutritious.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  But there's no scientific evidence that says that humans require grain. As a matter of fact, all the scientific evidence says that anytime we analyze the introduction of grain into the human diet as a staple food, we see the onset of multiple forms of disease.

• 18:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 18:04Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I, I mean, I may be ignorant here, but it seems like Asian cultures have been eating, you know, grains for hundreds of centuries or whatever and thriving on it. Am I wrong?

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Yes, well, no, yes and no. So, and that's a great point. I'm glad you brought it up. The, the Asian culture has the biggest problem with diabetes than any other culture in the world.

• 18:26Lewis Howes?

  Really? More than Americans?

• 18:28Speaker 02

  More than Americans. It's, it's kind of this myth in America that the, you know, that the Asians are so healthy because they follow this oriental, more natural way of living. It's kind of a, it's kind of one of those, I guess you could say, one of those, one of those common thoughts that people think about that's not, it's just a myth. It's not true. And they have more problems with diabetes than any other culture. And one of the reasons why is rice.

• 18:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness. Okay. So what are the main grains that people think are healthy for them that are actually, that we should eliminate completely from our diet, no matter where in the world you are?

• 19:03Speaker 02

  Okay, wheat, barley, rye, oats, corn, rice, sorghum, and millet. Those are the, those are the primary grains that I just don't recommend people consume, especially, especially if they're commercially farmed.

• 19:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Okay, so we should completely eliminate these things from our diet because even if we have no sensitivities to gluten, you still think we should eliminate them?

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, because you're getting exposure to all the other things and, and that's just, that's just a part of it. I, what I just described is a fraction of, of some of the problems that grain brings, uh, when you make it a staple food in your diet.

• 19:47Lewis Howes?

  This is, I feel like I've just been eating wrong my whole life then. Um, did you used to eat a lot of these foods yourself?

• 19:53Speaker 02

  I did. And you know, my story is when I went grain free, initially I, I, I did like everyone else. I went to the gluten free food aisle and, and started pounding down gluten free bread and, you know, drank gluten free beer.

• 20:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  And honestly, I felt worse on the gluten free foods than I did on the, on the, uh, on the traditional grain based foods. So I, that was actually why I started asking the question. If, here I am telling all these people, you know, to cut wheat, barley and rye out, but, but, you know, corn and rice and sorghum are accepted and I feel worse eating those grains. Why? And so I started diving in and, and, uh, you know, the literature is there. It's just kind of, the, the medical literature is there. It's just kind of been swept under the rug and ignored largely by, by, um, by, um, doctors and sci, and not all scientists, but by, by most, the vast majority of gastroenterologists who are responsible for diagnosing celiac disease. And, uh, and, and again, like I said before, 92% of the patients don't, their inflammation doesn't clear up.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  They don't, they don't get resolution of their, of their illness and they go on to develop multiple forms of autoimmunity, but don't link it to the grain.

• 20:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And for people that are going to be saying, well, I don't know if this guy is telling the truth or how can I know this is real? Or where's the documentation? Do you have all this backed up? I see a lot of notes in the back of your book.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, there's over 300 medical references in the book.

• 21:10Lewis Howes?

  Okay, perfect. Yeah. Cause I'm sure a lot of people are going to say, well, I don't know if I believe that. This is how I've lived my whole life and I feel fine. Yada, yada, yada. But, um, as long as the research is there, I guess that's all that matters. Um, so. So you're saying, I mean, what do people substitute? You know, what if they're used to putting rice and quinoa in their salad or some type of veggie bowl? And they believe that's extra protein and it's not going to be harmful because it's gluten free. You know, is it really going to harm people that much? Or, and if so, what do you recommend they substitute these grains with for their meals?

• 21:46Speaker 02

  So let me answer the first part of the question. Is it going to harm them that much? If they're gluten sensitive, it is, you know, if they're gluten sensitive, it's a zero sum game. If you're eating grains and you're gluten sensitive, you're in trouble. You're going to end up with much more severe disease than what you already have. And you're going to end up, the average person with gluten sensitivity will develop seven forms of autoimmunity before they're dead. And they will actually shave off 26 years. The study's been done. They'll shave off 26 years of their life. And the 20, not only will they live less, but their quality of life will be much poorer.

• 22:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  But substituting, substituting is easy enough. I mean, you can substitute. I always substitute, you know, where instead of a bowl of rice with, with other things on top, like I put a bowl of vegetable or a bed of vegetables on the bottom. You can do cauliflower rice. You can do carrots. You can do broccoli. You can do bamboo. You can do chestnut. I mean, there's, or not chestnut, water chestnut. There's, I mean, there's a whole, there are 300 different varieties of fruits and vegetables and meats that are in the human diet. And I bet Louis, if you analyzed your diet, I bet you would find that the variety is nowhere near 300 things you're eating all the time.

• 23:01Lewis Howes?

  It's probably like 10 things.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And most people's 10 things are grain, either punched out in the form of pasta or shells or in bread or in some form of pizza or in a donut or a bagel or a piece of toast or a sandwich. Right? So that we look at the average person's diet, 50% plus is grain. 30% or so is dairy. And then the rest is, you know, meat and, and vegetables of some different kind of variety. So the vast majority of what people are eating anyway, isn't a variety at all. It's, it's the guise of variety. Macaroni and cheese is not. That different than spaghetti is not that different than spiraled pasta. But we call that variety because it's the noodles are pressed into different shapes

• 23:47Speaker 02

  and soaked in different kinds of sauces.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  So for those that love, you know, their pastas, what's the, you know, I started doing quinoa pasta because I felt like it was going to be better than the traditional pasta. But obviously now I'm realizing that's still not good for me. Uh, what's the type of pasta that I could make?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Um, one of the best tools you can get is a, is a spiralizer, a vegetable spiralizer. And you can, basically you can hook up some zucchini and you can make, you can churn it. You turn it and it kind of creates little noodles out of the zucchini. And you can use that as a bed of pasta. You can use spaghetti squash uh as a substitute. Uh, some people gravitate towards sweet potato noodles that you can actually buy sweet potato noodles. They're pretty good. There's a mung bean noodle is another option. They're made out of bean and it, they're also sometimes called glass noodles. Uh, because they're clear in color. Some people like kelp noodles made out of seaweed and they taste pretty good too. So, and they're, you know, they're not vastly different from the wheat pasta.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  There's a little bit difference of a texture, a little bit difference of a taste, but it's different. You know, it's a different, uh, it's a different food, but it's still a really good substitute.

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  How can people test to know what uh sensitivities they have in their body or if they have any at all?

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Well, there, there are lots of different ways to test for gluten sensitivity. You know, for grain, you know, for grain, ultimately the best way to test is genetics. Um, we all have these two gene patterns called HLA DQ alpha one and HLA DQ beta one genes. Um, and some of us have a, a pattern on these genes that, understand these genes are, their job is to create this antenna on our immune system that recognizes things our body does and doesn't like. So it's kind of like the, the guardian or the watchdog. And so if you have certain patterns genetically that when gluten comes in, you're actually going to react to it as opposed to treat it like food. So the, you're, in those people who have that genetic marker, their normal response to gluten

• 25:48Speaker 02

  is to create inflammation against it. If we're talking about food allergy testing, there's about seven different ways a person can have an immune allergic reaction to food. And so there's a battery of different tests that will tease that out. One of them's called I G E. There's I G A. There's I G M. There's I G G and there's I G D. And there's immune complex response and there's T cell responses. And these can all be measured and tested for in individuals to see or determine what foods that their immune system is at odds with. And it's not all allergies are acute. So some people say, I eat that and I feel fine.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  It's like saying, I didn't exercise yesterday and I feel fine. Okay, right? And we know that missing a day of exercise is not a big deal, but missing five years of exercise, that's where the problem sets in. It's like eating a food you're allergic to where you're not having an anaphylactic reaction, or you're not having like your lips swell or breaking out in hives, but you're having just chronic low grade inflammation in your body every day because the food you're eating, your body is inflamed against. It's slow, it's steady and it's subtle. It's insidious. And then you hit a point where your body can no longer put out all the inflammation. And that's when we start breaking down. That's when we start saying, oh, I'm just getting older. That's when we start saying, oh, it's normal. It's just a little joint pain and we start popping ibuprofen and other pills.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  And the reality is it's accumulated damage over time. So just because you don't feel bad when you eat a food, doesn't mean the food isn't bad for you.

• 27:24Lewis Howes?

  Tell me about your, you know, the, your book is a 30 day diet for eliminating the root cause of chronic pain. For people that don't go get tested, because you said there's different ways to go about doing that, what do you recommend? Do you recommend, you know, and how's this program work? Is it 30 days, complete all grains from your diet? But you can eat anything else you want to eat? Or how does it work?

• 27:48Speaker 02

  No, I mean, there's three fundamental rules of nutrition. You can't get healthy eating food that isn't healthy, right?

• 27:54Lewis Howes?

  So I can't sell sugar all day and eliminate grain and be good?

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Well, it's like business, you know, I mean, you get what you put, you get what you put in, right? I mean, if you don't put in the hard work and the dedication, then you're not going to get an outcome that's success. And it's no different in nutrition. If you put in, you know, garbage, your, your outcome is going to be garbage. And, uh, and so that's a fundamental rule. We have to understand that. Uh, rule number two, don't eat what you're allergic or intolerant or sensitive to. And rule number three, if you feel bad when you eat it, stop eating it, listen to your body. But, but beyond that, the 30 day program is designed, I mean, I've been in practice for 15 years. And so I've seen pretty much every, every autoimmune disease you can imagine. And I, and I've seen every kind of diet plan and every kind of, uh, modification you could imagine. And so this 30 day plan is based on person who's not doing any testing.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  And it's based on, on the premise of going grain free. There's some other foods that we look at that we, that we eliminate. And there's two phases to this diet. There's a phase one, which is 15 days, and then there's a phase two. And it's graduated. So the first phase is a little bit easier and you graduate into that second phase and it become, that's where, for most people, if it's going to be a challenge, that's where the challenge is. But, but the 30 days is enough time, Louis, to establish with certainty for that individual that their diet is directly responsible for creating autoimmune pain and inflammation in their body. Because the difference will be that profound.

• 29:19Lewis Howes?

  They'll feel better, you'll probably lose weight, you'll, you know, have more energy, all those things you're saying.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 29:24Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. So you'll just, you'll feel it.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:28Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  And beyond, beyond 30 days, you know, now you have a choice. Now that, now that the 30 days has proven that, that you feel better, now you have a choice. Do you stop at 30 days and go back to the way you felt? Or do you recognize that with great intelligence and pursue forward? Um, and, and some people do, they pursue forward and they get tested and they, they tweak it even more and they get even better. Again, it's kind of like business. You, you get success and then you tweak that so that you can get to another level of success and you keep moving in that direction. Well, nutrition, it, it works very, very similar.

• 30:00Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What about those freaks of nature that are just shredded human beings, have all the energy in the world and they eat garbage, sugar, candies, junk food, ice cream, whenever they want, and they just seem to be genetic specimens? What about those cases?

• 30:16Speaker 02

  They always pay a price.

• 30:17Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Yep, always. There's always a price to pay. You don't get, you don't get to escape the price. Some people pay it later in life as opposed to earlier in life. Um, but I see those guys all the time. Usually those guys, and they are guys, that women typically get sick around the age of thirty-five to thirty-eight. Um, the men like that you're referring to, they're typically in here at fifty-five to fifty-eight with low testosterone, their hair's falling out, sex drive is gone, their muscles are wasting away. They don't understand why they're growing a pot belly when they've always gotten away with treating their bodies like garbage their whole life.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay.

• 30:53Lewis Howes?

  What about the, um, the whole theory of a cheat day, you know, six days a week, I'm gonna be grain-free, sugar-free, or, you know, live by these specific principles, but, you know, we live in a day of age where this amazing dessert foods and all these different things that we could enjoy and people want to enjoy life and, and be able to experience different tastes here and there. Is it bad, or do you think it's gonna be harmful long-term? If six days a week, you're eating super clean on this process, and then one day a week, you indulge in, you know, the donuts and the cupcakes and the brownies?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Well, if a person is, is truly gluten sensitive, that cheat day's a problem. Um, it's a zero tolerance policy that the science shows that gluten can do damage at twenty parts per million, which is about the size of a breadcrumb, and that that inflammatory damage can last for up to two months. So if you're cheating every sixth or seventh day, you know, you're, you're gonna stay in that chronic inflamed state. Now, now, some people-

• 31:57Lewis Howes?

  What if they don't have the sensitivity?

• 31:58Speaker 02

  If they don't have the sensitivity, look, um, the body is dynamic and resilient, but, but then we have to do the math. I, and I would encourage people to do the math. If, if you spend one of every seven days- You're basically, if we're scoring you at your grade, right? You've got a bad score. You've got a bad test grade. You know, one out of seven is not a, if you miss one and there's only seven questions, you're writing at a low B. So if you want your health to be a low B, then that's your call. You can make that call. But I, you know, I, that's the way I like to, the numbers don't lie that way.

• 32:33Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Think of it, if you think of it like that, and then you may, instead of saying one cheat day, maybe you say one a month. And that maybe becomes more of a realistic thing. I think people have, have gravitated toward the social engagement with food. In our, in our society, food has, is out of control. If you look at the top causes of death, every single one of them, Louis, are associated with food. Cancer is associated with food. Heart disease associated with food. Autoimmune disease associated with food. The, the, the next leading cause of death is medication. And I know a lot of people are saying, that's not true, but it is true. Study published in the Journal of American Medical Association, 1998, provided that evidence and, and it's the fourth leading cause of death in the United States.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  So if the top three causes of death in the U.S. are food induced and the fourth leading cause of death is the way we try to prevent the food induced disease is through medication, then who's winning? Statistically, you're going to die of heart disease or cancer. So you got to ask yourself, is that what you want? Is that, you know, is that cheat day worth it? And I'm not saying that, you know, a person can never have a treat. I'm just saying, let's evaluate where the treat is coming from. I mean, I like things that are sweets, but you know, instead of buying this highly processed ho-ho with 17,000 chemicals in it, right? Yeah, we may bake something at home that's got four or five ingredients. It's all coming from real food and not fake food.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  And there's no genetically manipulated ingredients and there's no hormones or pesticides or other garbage in it. So you can still have that. It just becomes a matter of having it intelligently.

• 34:09Lewis Howes?

  So what does your diet look like on a, you know, a consistent basis? What are you putting in your body? And when do you indulge or do you?

• 34:18Speaker 02

  I do indulge. I mean, I'm like any other human and nobody's perfect. I do like to indulge. And so, you know, breakfast for me typically is some form of meat. Sometimes it's, uh, sometimes it's beef, sometimes it's chicken, sometimes it's pork, sometimes it's fish. Um, and, and usually some fruit and, and a lot of times I like cabbage. So I'll have, uh, I'll have purple and green cabbage mixed together with some, uh, with some diced pecans over the top and, uh, and maybe some red bell peppers sliced over the top of that as well. With a couple of grapes mixed in for a little sweet. Um, that, that's, that's a pretty, pretty average breakfast. And then for lunch, I'll generally eat whatever I had for dinner the night before. My fortunately my wife cooks and, and, uh, we believe the same way about nutrition.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  So she usually cooks, you know, a really healthy, uh, healthy dish. There's lots of vegetables and there's a usually a, a portion of meat. And, and, uh, for dessert typically I'll, I'll have a fruit. We've got some fruit trees in the backyard, so, uh, grapefruit season, grapefruit season's here right now. So I'll, I'll pull a grapefruit off the tree and I'll spoon it right out. And that, that's for me, that's a pretty darn good dessert. Uh, and then as far as cheat days and things of that, things of that nature splurging. I mean, you know, for birthday or for, you know, holiday celebration, you know, we can bake. My, my wife bakes grain free cookies. She bakes.

• 35:34Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. You use, you use different kinds of flowers. So you might use almond flour or coconut flour, tapioca flour, or cassava flour, plantain flour. There's, there's plenty of other options. You know, a lot of people, they look at this and they say, there's no way I could do it. Right? Just like they might, you know, in the business world, they look at a successful person and say, there's no way I could ever reach that person's level. And, and, and they stop themselves before they're ever even beginning the process of investigation. And I would say, don't go into this with that, with that attitude. Go into this with understanding there is a learning curve. There's an intelligence, there's a preparation that if you put the time in, the outcome could dramatically change your life. Um, but, but that's the process. It's just the process of learning.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  And once you learn, you'll find there's just as much, if not more variety in your diet. And there are foods that are just as, uh, that is just as social and engaging and is enjoying as what you were, what you were eating before. And probably even better because now you don't feel like shit while you're eating them.

• 36:32Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. But tell me about, you know, there's a lot of vegans out here. A lot of my friends are vegans in LA. And there's a movement towards this. Um, but essentially you could be a really unhealthy vegan if you're just substituting everything with gluten, right?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I mean, what you you could be and and just like the opposite, you could be a meat eater and you could be eating the worst foods too. And you could be very unhealthy. I I, you know, I, there's this whole battle with vegans and and and non vegans and that that it's, you know, some people on one side will say it's impossible to be a healthy vegan. And then on the other side, they'll say it'll be impossible to eat meat and be healthy. And both arguments are wrong. Everybody's different. There's this concept in in what I do, which is called functional medicine, which which is basically that there's this concept called biochemical individuality. Everyone is a unique individual. There are some people who, when they eat meat, they don't digest it. They can't process it properly.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  It backs them up, gives them constipation, makes them feel horrible. And so they do better on a diet of vegetables. Um, and and and on a diet with with either much less meat or fish as an option as opposed to red meats that are harder to digest. And then there are people genetically, if they don't eat meat, their bodies will emasculate and waste away and they'll actually become sick. So both sides of that equation are actually correct, but it just depends on where the person as a unique individual falls.

• 37:55Lewis Howes?

  And can you talk to me about legumes? Because the whole, you know, the whole paleo movement and um,

• 38:02Lewis Howes?

  and they're talking about legumes. What are your thoughts on them? And and what are legumes? So people know.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, legumes are basically beans and lentils. And um, just like grains, grains are seeds. And uh, legumes are seeds. And and the the fundamental problem, if you look at paleo, one of the arguments, you know, with saying, hey, we need to avoid legumes is that legumes as a seed, the function of a seed in Mother Nature's grand scheme is that a seed is designed to survive. It's designed to protect itself biochemically so that it can perpetuate its own species. And so it has, it has to have embedded within it mechanisms that protect it from predators. Humans are the predators. And some of these mechanisms are are that this outer shell of the seed is very hard and hard to penetrate.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  So our digestive enzymes can't penetrate that shell very efficiently. So it can be harder to digest. That's why a lot of people with beans, they take Bino. When they cook their beans to predigest the beans so that it's less toxic and less harmful on the GI tract. But legumes also like, like some of the glutens and some of the proteins and grains, legumes contain proteins like lectins and some of these other proteins that can inhibit digestion. And so some people really have a hard, hard time consuming beans consistently because their digestive tracts just can't penetrate with them and just can't, just can't break them down. And so what happens is the beans end up rotting in their gut and feeding the wrong bacteria.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  And so then we get this person that has this, develops this abnormal gut bacteria and leaky gut, and then they start ending up with all these other kinds of problems as a result of it.

• 39:38Lewis Howes?

  So you're saying we should not be having legumes as well?

• 39:42Speaker 02

  I'm saying that if you're having, no, I'm not saying that everybody has a general rule of thumb avoids legumes at all costs. I'm, I'm saying that some people are better digesters of legumes than others. I think if you're going to eat legumes, you've got to, you've got to cook them appropriately. Legumes by themselves are real, again, they're really hard to digest and you might get away with eating small portions, but if you're eating massive portions, it, it, you might, your gut might pay the price. So the way that, the proper way of preparation for beans is actually soaking those beans. So you know, beans come in those packages are really, really hard and you can soak them. And most people will soak them for about 12 hours and then drain the water and then begin cooking them. Well, if you soak them about 36 hours and, and, and you replace that water, drain it

• 40:26Speaker 02

  about every 12 water, 12 hours and replace the water, what you're actually doing is you're washing away a lot of the anti-nutrients that are found in legumes. And you're, you're in essence, you're almost in a sense predigesting that legume so that it's less, uh, less work for your gut.

• 40:41Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Okay. And I'm seeing here in your book, cashew and peanuts, those are not nuts, right?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  No, those are legumes.

• 40:51Lewis Howes?

  Legumes, okay. Gotcha. What about almonds and almond butter?

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Perfectly, perfectly fine.

• 40:57Lewis Howes?

  That's good. Okay. Everyone's using, I think I read somewhere recently that. You know, people are having, consuming too much almonds in their diet now as a substitute for everything else.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  You can do that too. Yeah, that you can get too much. The problem with almonds is they're higher in omega-6 fatty acids and omega-6 fatty acids promote the inflammatory cascade. So if you're, if your diet ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 is out of balance, you tend to be hyper-inflammatory. So it's with any food, Louis, you can overdo anything, right? I mean, the, the principle law of toxicity is that anything in high enough quantities can eventually become toxic to the body.

• 41:33Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  And, and that's why, you know, that old saying exists, you know, moderation. So don't, don't, don't pack down a pound of almonds just because almonds are on the safe list. You know, do it intelligently.

• 41:45Lewis Howes?

  Well, if you could wrap everything up in less than 30 seconds, maybe someone who's seems to be living a semi-healthy lifestyle, but they want to optimize their life, or someone who's really sick, it doesn't matter who it is, if you could share your message in 30 seconds or less, that would inspire them to take action, what would you say?

• 42:10Speaker 02

  No grain, no pain, and follow the seven fundamentals. Eat a, eat a clean, healthy diet. Make sure you get eight hours of sleep, plenty of sleep. Make sure that you exercise consistently, but not, not too advertently over, don't overdo it. Make sure you're drinking clean, uh, clean water. Make sure you're drinking, you're breathing clean air. Make sure you got plenty of laughter in your life and, uh, and stress control and stress management. I, I would say those things and, and as a general rule, you will improve your health if you apply those rules across the board.

• 42:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I love that. Uh, what are you most grateful for, Dr. Osborne?

• 42:47Speaker 02

  I'm most grateful for being able to do what I absolutely love to do.

• 42:53Lewis Howes?

  I love that. I want to, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for your dedication and your consistency and your work of diving in and learning the research that you said was swept under the rug by many medical practices for the last 15 years and really serving all the people you've served. I know you help hundreds, if not thousands of people that come into your clinic in Houston. So, thanks for healing people, saving people's lives. You're doing incredible work and I want to acknowledge you for all your commitment to this, this idea and this work.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Thank you, Lewis. Appreciate that.

• 43:31Lewis Howes?

  Now, where can we connect with you online? I know you've got your new book that we'll have linked up here in the show notes, but where can we follow you? And what's your main site that we can go to?

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Well, my clinic site is DrPeterOsborne.com, D R Peter Osborne dot com. And then my foundation, I have a foundation to help people discern and discover the gluten-free lifestyle and kind of get their questions answered. And that's glutenfreesociety.org, O R G.

• 44:01Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. And you're all over the place on Facebook, Twitter and everything else, correct?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 44:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. We'll have it all linked up here in the show notes afterwards. I'll tell you guys where to go. But make sure to follow Dr. Peter Osborne and pick up this book, No Grain No Pain, 30 Day Diet for Eliminating the Root Cause of Chronic Pain. I think you're going to get a lot out of it. I've already been going through the book myself. And just this interview alone has been extremely informative, but he's got the whole game plan for 30 days, what you should follow, what you should be eating, and a lot more research and information about the things you have been consuming and how it's affecting your health and your long-term health. So make sure to check this out. Get the book. You can get it on Amazon or everywhere else online, but we'll also have it linked up at the end of this episode. Final question for you. What is your definition of greatness?

• 44:53Speaker 02

  I think greatness is allowing your inner power to shine. I think greatness is being able to

• 45:04Speaker 02

  take what I do, take what you love and amplify it. Because what you love is generally what you're good at, it's your gift. And I think the most, and I've done this too, the most miserable thing in the world is being stuck somewhere in a position that you don't like, in a job that you don't like, in a profession that you don't like, and being forced to do it simply so that you can make ends meet. So I think the definition of an individual's greatness is tapping into that that inner power, because everybody has an inner power, discovering what that is, and living life to its fullest by amplifying that in your life.

• 45:41Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Dr. Peter Osborne, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  You're welcome, Lewis. Thanks so much for having me.

• 45:52Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this very powerful message. Make sure to check out the book, do the research yourself, so you're making sure that you have checked out everything. Again, your health is the most important thing that you have. It's all we have. And if we're not emotionally, mentally, and physically healthy, and if we're not constantly educating and updating ourselves on how to improve our health, then we're missing the point of life, in my opinion. So make sure to continue to update and inform yourself. I hope this was a powerful interview that was eye-opening and enlightening and informative. You can check out the full show notes at lewishouse.com/282.

• 46:34Lewis Howes?

  Again, share this with a friend as well, lewishouse.com/282. Or if you're listening on the podcast app, on the podcast app or on iTunes, you can click on the share button and send it out to Twitter, Facebook. You know, all those places and just copy the link and email to a friend as well. Again, LewisHowes.com/282 to check out all the show notes, the links, where you can get the book, and how you can connect with Dr. Peter Osborne as well. I hope you enjoyed this one. Super pumped. We have stepped up the game. Make sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel, youtube.com/LouisHowes. We're doing videos two, three times a week now. Every interview we're recording, this was the last interview that we are doing without

• 47:18Lewis Howes?

  video, because we had done this a while back, so we are doing everything moving forward with video. So check out all the videos and inspiring messages we're putting out at youtube.com/LouisHowes as well. Super pumped for who we have coming up. Make sure to continue to subscribe if this is your first time here. Leave a review as well at iTunes/School of Greatness and continue to share the message with your friends. We can't do this without you. Your support makes this what it is. It allows us to bring on even bigger, more inspiring, influential guests to give you the information you deserve. So thank you for all that you do to share and spread the message of greatness. I love you, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.