237 Jon Chu on Directing in Hollywood, Creative Storytelling and Chasing Your Dreams

"The reason we make and watch movies is to feel connected as a community." - Jon Chu If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and video at http://lewishowes.com/237 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 237 with director John Chu.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the podcast. Very excited about this episode. It's with a buddy of mine named John Chu, who's an American film director, film producer, screenwriter, and cinematographer, best known for directing the movies Step Up 2, The Streets, Step Up 3D, Justin Bieber's Never Say Never, and G.I. Joe: Retaliation. He's an alumni of the University of Southern California School of Cinema Television, where he won many awards. And he's currently filming Jem and the Holograms. And the five things you're going to take away from this, there's going to be a lot of takeaways from this, and I didn't want John to stop because his storytelling is so incredible. But you're going to hear about the story

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  of how Steven Spielberg found one of John's movies while he was still in school, and bought another one of his ideas later, how he got into making dance movies, why he will always make movies even when no one pays him, and what he learned about Justin Bieber from making that movie as well. Lots of other incredible stories about creativity, storytelling, and how to live an incredible life. I think you're going to fall in love with this one as much as I've fallen in love with John. So make sure to check out all the show notes. We'll have some other videos of what John's up to at lewishouse.com/237. So without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one, the only, John Chu.

• 2:01Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got John Chu in the house. What's going on, my man?

• 2:05Speaker 01

  What's going on?

• 2:05Lewis Howes?

  Good to see you, brother.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Good to be here.

• 2:07Lewis Howes?

  We met, I think, three years ago, two or three years ago, at Yael's house.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:12Lewis Howes?

  Is that where we originally met?

• 2:13Speaker 01

  I think so. That might have been, we might have been in, we have a lot of mutual friends. So I'm sure we were in the same area before that, but I think that's the first time we met.

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  First time we met.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  And I think I was sitting next to you. We were playing like Cards Against Humanity or Apples to Apples or something. What was it called?

• 2:27Speaker 01

  It was Cards Against Humanity.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  Right? And I think at one point, I didn't know who you were. I was like, cool, this guy's name is John, like, alright, cool. But it was a great event, or it was a great little house party. And we were playing Cards Against Humanity. And I think I remember like, one of the cards was your name or something. Was that right?

• 2:43Speaker 01

  I believe it was my name or one of my movies.

• 2:47Lewis Howes?

  Your movie or something?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  I don't fully remember.

• 2:48Lewis Howes?

  It was like the director of something or whatever, right? And you were like, oh, that's me. And I was like, what? Who are you? So let's talk a little bit about who you are. You're a director of, how many movies have you directed?

• 2:58Speaker 01

  I've directed seven movies now.

• 3:01Lewis Howes?

  These are like main feature movies?

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, studio features in the last seven years, so about a movie a year.

• 3:08Lewis Howes?

  And you're only 35, is that right?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, 35. And, but I feel like, you know, when you make a movie, you don't feel like that much time has passed, but then you realize, oh, shoot, I'm 35 now. So I feel 28, but really.

• 3:22Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  But no, I've been seven movies, different genres, from documentaries to, you know, like the Justin Bieber movie, to the Step Up Dance movies, to G.I. Joe action films. So we have a big range of movies that I do, and, but it's been a fun, fun ride.

• 3:40Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. What's the new movies coming out that you have?

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so right now I'm in a, it's an interesting challenge. I'm doing two movies at the same time. So I have two very different movies. I have Gem and the Holograms.

• 3:51Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Which is based off of an 80s cartoon. It's a musical. Teenage girls find fame on the internet.

• 4:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  And it's all original music. Worked with Scooter Braun, who's Justin's manager, you know very well.

• 4:04Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  And we have, it's a great sort of fun, poppy, young. Girl's Story.

• 4:10Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of like Glee?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Uh, it has a little bit of glee-ness to it, uh, but it definitely, you know, it's, it's based off a comic book and cartoon series. So it has a little, uh, extra little thing to it. It has a little sci-fi element. There's a robot that speaks beatbox and there's holographic. I mean, it's a very strange, fun movie. Uh, and then the other one that comes out next summer, uh, that I'm working on at the same time right now is Now You See Me 2. Which is a sequel to, uh, a couple of years ago, a movie came out, Now You See Me. It has Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine.

• 4:38Lewis Howes?

  Huge cast.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Mark Ruffalo, Jesse Eisenberg.

• 4:40Lewis Howes?

  And the whole cast is coming back, right?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  They're all coming back and we've added a few new people like Lizzy Caplan and Daniel Radcliffe is in it.

• 4:46Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  So yeah, it's a, uh, it's a fun cast, big cast, um, and, uh, it's all magic. So.

• 4:53Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Now You See Me was great, in my opinion, you know, all the magic.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  It's so fun, right? It was a, it was a sort of a sleeper hit a couple of years ago, um, and, uh, made tons of money all around the world, huge global audience.

• 5:05Lewis Howes?

  And you weren't directing the first one though, unfortunately, right?

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Louis Leterrier, who is a master of that stuff, did that first one. Uh, so coming in is a little bit of a challenge. You know, you gotta, uh, find your own voice in it, but not, uh, stir it up so much that it's a different movie. But we actually have a very different take. We get to go to the other side of the curtain and get to know these magicians more. When you have that caliber of, of cast, you can sort of let them go and they create some really great things. And we had a great, a group of magicians who helped us out. So.

• 5:32Lewis Howes?

  You've got like the top magicians in the world, right?

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had like mentalists, we had, uh, uh, uh, uh, we had cardistry guys, we had sleight of hand guys. Uh, we're all like around a table creating magic tricks of how these magicians can escape this, you know, this magic trap. Uh, and it's a, it's a fun environment to be around. So everyone's learning magic, um, all the time. So it's a fun.

• 5:55Lewis Howes?

  And so a lot of these guys, the professionals, are they coming in and actually doing the tricks on film? Is it their hands that are like flipping the, you know, throwing the cards or doing like the crazy?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  We tried not to do that actually. We, we, these actors are so involved in their craft that, uh, they want to learn how to throw cards. So Dave Franco got so good at throwing cards and, uh, and Jesse Eisenberg and Mark Ruffalo, they want. Wanted to like get in there, Woody Harrelson, who learned mentalism and can go into a, any like place and, and do some of these, the.

• 6:28Lewis Howes?

  He could actually do it.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, he can actually do it. It's pretty amazing.

• 6:31Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  You know, of course, some of the more super skilled stuff.

• 6:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  You know, it's a movie, so we try to do some of those things.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  But making a magic movie is tough because you want to show the audience that you're not faking anything. That this is like, so you can't cut around stuff. You can't do camera tricks. So we try to do everything as practical as possible.

• 6:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  And so you'll see that in the movie. You'll feel that in the movie, even if you don't fully notice it. I think when you go back and watch the movie, you realize we actually did these tricks.

• 6:56Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. I love it. So you went to USC, correct?

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  Film school?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  USC Film School, yeah, right down the street.

• 7:02Lewis Howes?

  Now, you can actually see it down here, right? You can see it in my window.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  On a good day.

• 7:06Lewis Howes?

  On a good day, it's a little hazy.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  I see a little bit. It's my dorm room, right?

• 7:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And I heard, I read online that you, you know, Steven Spielberg, he found one of your videos or one of your movies. Is that right?

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a very interesting period of time. I was, I was in school. I'd done a couple of shorts. I got some attention, but you know, you're in school. This is nineteen, no, this is two thousand one.

• 7:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Um, so there was no YouTube, so nothing could go sort of viral online. Um, but the, uh.

• 7:34Lewis Howes?

  So you had to go hustle around the difference.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Hustle around a little bit, but I'd done a short film that was a musical, um, about the secret life of mothers. It was very strange.

• 7:42Lewis Howes?

  We love musicals.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know why. I'm not a dancer myself. I don't sing. I, you know, a few drinks, maybe all that stuff. Get up on the karaoke bar, but that's about it. But I love dancers and I love singers. I love being around them and they were all my friends. So they're the only ones who would help me out when I had the camera. So I somehow fell into that world and I love it. But, uh, so I made a short film and, uh, and it got around town. And you could only get like a VHS or DVD copy of it. And somehow I didn't send it to Steven Spielberg. I didn't, uh, look for that. It somehow ended up on his desk and I just one day got a call from my agent who said, uh. You know, Steven, rumor has it that Steven Spielberg has seen your short and I don't know what it means. This was a Friday night. He's like, I don't know what it means, but just know that that you heard that.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  We're not sure if it's true or not. I was like, okay. But of course, all weekend long, I'm thinking about it. What does that even mean? How does that? And then. You got like 21, 22 at the time? Yeah, I'm 22 at the time. Yeah. And so then I get a call from my agent the next day. And he's like, hey, just so you know, I know it's Saturday, but I've been getting, I was like with my family, but I got all these calls from Steven's like agents and people and he really wants to sit down with you tomorrow at his house. On a Sunday? On a Sunday. I was like, uh, yeah, I'm there. Sure. I'm playing it totally cool. Oh, let me check my calendar. Meanwhile, I'm like jumping up and down, going crazy. And. He's up in the hills or Bel Air or somewhere. He's got some.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Exactly. So, so we call back and we actually, it ends up being on the Monday. Okay. But go into his office and he was totally cool. Like it was just me and him. We talked for a couple of hours. It wasn't just like a fast, hey, great thing. Here's my card. Go, yeah, I'll call you. It was more, we talked about musicals. We talked about movies. We talked about all sorts of things and he was, he was genuinely interested and genuinely present. He brought in his other, his other sort of lieutenants at the, at DreamWorks at the time. And, and at that point, I remember thinking, my only goal was to get a second meeting. Like that's my only, in this whole, whatever happens, stay focused on getting a second meeting.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  So like, I was like, oh, you know, we have this. He's like, what do you want to do? Do we have projects? And you know, he's really involved with USC, funding it and stuff. So I think he, there's a sense of pride there too. Yeah. He wanted to give back and support. Exactly. So I was like, well, I have a short, I mean, a, a, a feature that I'd been writing with my, my buddy. And Jason Russell, who actually started Invisible Children, but at that time we were both in film school together. So we said, I said, well, yeah, I have this thing. And, and he's like, oh, I'd love to hear. I was like, oh, I have it ready. And he's like, oh, let's meet this week. I was like. Second meeting. Second meeting, exactly. Totally made that happen. So I went back to my apartment. Jason was there because he was excited just to. Hear about what happened. Hear about what happened. No idea that I pitched this thing. Wow.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  That was only really half together, to be honest. We're like, we gotta do this now. We had talked about it over a beer, I think at one point. So we're like. Oh shit, we had four days to get this thing together. Wow. So, uh, him, uh, his now wife, Danica, and myself, we just like stayed up all night for four days doing this thing. And I'd never done a pitch before. And so on that Friday, or I think it was a Friday, we go into DreamWorks and sitting at the table for my first pitch ever is, uh, Steven Spielberg, Walter Parks, uh, Laurie McDonald, his wife, they were the sort of the, uh, heads of, uh,

• 11:17Speaker 01

  of DreamWorks at the time. Um, we had, uh, Adam Goodman, who was sort of, uh, who was at that time, an executive at DreamWorks. He eventually becomes the president of Paramount, where there's a whole nother story about that. But, um, and, uh, and we had Mike DeLuca as well. So this, and Steven Spielberg. So this room was like the powerhouse. Wow. And, uh, so we come in there, these little, you know, these young, never done a pitch before, and we bring in this chest of costumes and pictures. And so we start pitching the story. And every time we go to a new scene, we have pictures and hat changes and costume changes. I mean, it is the most ridiculous thing. So probably like, who are these guys?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  It's exactly, it's like the scene in Moulin Rouge where they're like putting on the outfits and they're running out and coming back in. I mean, they must have been laughing after. Now, looking back, it is so embarrassing. Wow. Um, but, uh, they were very gracious. They listened to the whole hour performance of this thing. They bought it. Really? And so, uh, So it worked. So it worked somehow. I don't know what happened. Out of pity, maybe. Yes, yes. But just, just, uh, and we never actually made it, but we did set it up there and we developed it for years. Uh, but that, just the fact that, um, Steven would, would reach out and, um, make that kind of notice and take the time. Um, it means a lot in the business. Everybody paid attention. Nobody knew who I was. So that, uh, that sort of pushed me into, uh,

• 12:42Speaker 01

  the world, into the real world here. So that was a very, uh, interesting time. But what was interesting too was, so Jason Russell was supposed to leave for Sudan at the time because he wanted to do this documentary about Sudan. Uh, this was before Invisible Children where he started, um, it was about Ugandan children. So, uh, he, I was like, why are you leaving right now? We just pitched to Steven Spielberg. He's like, I am meant to go right now. I know. I'm like, he's like, I went to film school. Obviously this is our dream. But I'm like, I feel like I need to do this trip.

• 13:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  I feel called. And I was like, okay, bro, but this is the whole, like, you go to film school to get this opportunity.

• 13:21Lewis Howes?

  To get Steven Spielberg to be on your team.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Totally didn't understand him leaving, but he left. He's like, just keep me updated. And while he's there, I call him when our deal closes. I'm like, dude, we got it. We're doing this. I was like, God, come back. He's like, I just met these kids in Uganda and I made a promise to them that I would tell their story and I can't leave.

• 13:40Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  And that's sort of what started Invisible Children and that sort of 12, 13 year journey of them. And so for me, seeing how that company was born was, was two paths sort of diverged at a moment. And that's how I know, that's why I love Jason so much and know his, his heart and all that stuff. But it was very interesting because we had, we started the very same place of a film school and we get along creatively and all that stuff. He did this, obviously, thing for his bigger purpose, which is great.

• 14:12Lewis Howes?

  But he could have been a big director like you if you had stayed in it and you guys would have made movies together or he would have his own thing.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:17Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. It's interesting that he would have the courage to leave and go do something he had no idea what was going to come from when he had the biggest opportunity of his life.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  It was insane. It's an insane decision and I wish people, I wish I'd filmed that moment. I wish he could, I wish other people could have seen those conversations because I had no idea what he was talking about.

• 14:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  You're gonna go to this unknown and, and, and, and make this promise to a kid that you met.

• 14:44Lewis Howes?

  That you don't know.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  It's a little town that you don't know. And do you know how long that could be? And do you know that you, you probably won't even be able to fulfill that promise?

• 14:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  And he's like, yeah, but I have to try. And that was it. It was very simple for him. There was no like, ooh, maybe, maybe if I, he was like, no, like, there's no way.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. That's inspiring.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  That was really inspiring. I always think about that moment in my life when, when those things come up, even when little things, not even the things that big. Although that didn't feel that big at that moment of him making that decision, other than you're losing a huge opportunity.

• 15:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  But you, you realize those little choices, the way you see the world or the way you see your path can affect your whole life. And, and so I always think about how brave he was to do that.

• 15:26Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Do you think that you'd be where you're at now if you didn't have that opportunity with Spielberg then? Be making features and doing everything you've done, or is that kind of the catalyst that really?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  It definitely was the catalyst to get me into the studio world. I don't doubt that I wouldn't be making movies. Maybe it wouldn't be movie movies, maybe it would be TV shows, maybe it would be wedding videos, maybe it would be whatever. But in my, since I was in third grade, I've always made movies on my own.

• 15:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  And that I know for a fact, whether getting paid for it or not, I would always do that. And I will always do that in the future.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  My movies may all bomb and I may never get another movie in Hollywood ever again, but I know I'll still be making stuff.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  That's just in my nature.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And what I think I read online that your, you know, your parents, you grew up in San Francisco area, right?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, Palo Alto.

• 16:15Lewis Howes?

  Palo Alto, and your parents would give you the camera to like film going on vacation or whatever. But you decided to like make movies instead of filming like the moments that you're supposed to film, right?

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. I mean, when you give a kid a camera, what are you supposed to do? I'm just bored on these vacations. They were so great. They, you know, they came from China. My mom came from Taiwan into the Bay Area. They didn't know a word of English.

• 16:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  And, and they wanted to give everything to the kids. So we, so they met in the Bay Area, but they started a little restaurant. It's been there for 46 years now.

• 16:47Lewis Howes?

  It's like a famous restaurant now, right?

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been there for so long.

• 16:50Lewis Howes?

  What's it called?

• 16:51Speaker 01

  It's called Chef Chews. It's in Los Altos, which is next to Stanford. And so at the center of the Silicon Valley before it was called the Silicon Valley. And they grew with the neighborhood and we got the benefit of growing with that neighborhood as well. Being in that environment where the engineer was celebrated, nobody was rich and famous. It was just about like, what are you making and how is that changing the world? Or how is that affecting how we live?

• 17:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  And, and they were crazy ideas from people riding around in electric cars in the nineties to, to people bringing in software. You could see them working at lunch, right? At their, at their desk. And I got the benefit of having, you know, they would find out, oh, Chef Chews son likes to make these home videos. You know, we have this computer that we're working on now that can do like dissolves and interesting things with video. And so they would bring in. Their beta computers and Adobe would bring in their their software, all like testing mode, all beta mode with no manuals. And they would give it to my dad to give to me.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  And you'd be like editing videos on there.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Literally, I would just have to sit there and be like, how do I do this and figure it out? So I was ahead by a lot in those times and that was, you know, you're sort of grown by your community. That was definitely something.

• 18:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  That was very rare and weird and looking back, I just was very lucky to be in that environment at the time. But they gave, my, my parents were always giving to the kids. I'm the youngest of five kids. And they said, they never let us work at the restaurant.

• 18:18Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:18Speaker 01

  They always said, they didn't want us to get used to fast cash. They were like, do everything we couldn't do first, like go after the things that you won't be able to do later one day possibly, just like explore. And so they put us in music classes, dance classes. We went to, I did animation school. I did theater.

• 18:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  We did sports camps. We did, we traveled. So every year we would travel as well. And, and that's where my, that's where sort of where I got the video camera at first. And then would make little mini movies with my brothers and sisters who didn't really want to do movies.

• 18:52Lewis Howes?

  You're like, what do we do?

• 18:54Speaker 01

  And I had a lot of toys. So I am convinced that my toy collection, I get passed down all the toys from my brothers and sisters. And I would figure out ways to convince my parents to get me that extra special toy. And I'd have week long adventures in my backyard.

• 19:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  And I'm convinced that that's where I actually learned filmmaking and storytelling.

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. What is it about film that you love the most? Is it the idea creation of, I've got this idea for a great story? Is it the actual filming? Is it working with the cast and the crew? Is it the post-production? Is it when it's finally out there and you get the reaction of the 13 year old girls who are watching Justin Bieber movies screaming, crying next to you in the movie theater? You're like, how did I create something where people are crying their eyes out, you know?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:39Lewis Howes?

  You know, something, before you answer that, I watched the Never Say Never movie like three or four times. And every time I cried, man, during the grandparents section, I was like, this is unbelievable what this kid has gone through.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  You should have seen me behind the camera. I was also crying.

• 19:53Lewis Howes?

  Shaking like, ah.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, luckily I wasn't holding the camera. But no, those moments are really genuine in that.

• 20:00Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  And I genuinely grew to love the kid because I did not, I can't call him the kid anymore.

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  The man, Justin Bieber, because I didn't, I didn't know that too much going into that movie. But I wanted to make the movie about someone who didn't know anything about him and learning step by step who this person is. You see this person on YouTube and they come across, oh, there's just a pop star. But then when you actually go back, you see he's a boy that has extreme talent and you recognize that boy as someone that either you know or that you were and you follow him on his journey. And I think that was the inspirational part for me was it's a fairy tale in a way and it's actually happening in real time.

• 20:40Lewis Howes?

  It was unbelievable. I mean, the storytelling, I mean, I guess you weren't really telling the story. You were just sharing the story of it was just incredible. I mean, the way you put that, that movie must have had some big records too, right? Did it sell extremely well?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it did. It did super well, made a hundred million dollars worldwide. And for something that was supposed to be just a concert movie, you know, we were like, well, let's tell, let's, let's make a real documentary about this kid's life. Let's make a, you know, a biography, but the music not just be concert songs, but actually be a musical documentary. So when words aren't enough, the music helps tell that story. We recontextualize his music that sounds like, oh, that's just about first love. It's actually about him, you know, falling in love with the business at that time when he came into LA or, or that's about the deal that he made with whatever. So that was really fun to flip his music and say, let's make, how would you use that in a musical about his life? And that's how we sort of formatted it.

• 21:34Lewis Howes?

  Would that, would you say, what was the big movie you did before that? And I want to get back to you answer the question a second, but what was the big movie you did before that?

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Uh, right before that, I'd done two Step Up movies. So I did Step Up to the Streets and Step Up 3D.

• 21:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Uh, and so because of my 3D efforts on Step Up, they knew they wanted to do the Justin thing in 3D. Uh, so Adam Goodman, who I had met at that original meeting with Steven, had at that point, this was like four or five years later. You know, maybe six years later, become the president of Paramount. And so he had this on his desk and he had known, we had always talked about doing a project. We never actually got there, actually making the project. So he called me and said, hey, I have a, you know, we always wanted to work together. I want you to bring you over to Paramount, but I have this project first that I need help on. And he's like, it has to come out in like six or seven months. He's like, I have no idea what to do with it. And it's in 3D. So have you ever heard of this guy, Justin Bieber?

• 22:32Speaker 01

  I was like, ah, I don't know. He's like, that song, Baby? I was like, oh yeah, that baby song, okay. And so then I went home and I started watching YouTube videos. I just wanted to get a sense of who, first I was like, I don't do concert movies. There's no, I don't know what I would do with this. So then I go home and I start watching the YouTube videos. And you can actually go to his first video he ever posted. And you can go to the first comment of the first video ever posted. You can go to the second comment, you can go to the third comment. And in real time, you can read how this thing unfolded. You can go to that second video, that fourth video, and you can go to those comments. And you're literally tracking this and it's like you're going back in time.

• 23:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  And I thought that was so surreal to experience the story in that way. I was like, if we can bring this type of thing into a movie, I thought that was really interesting.

• 23:17Lewis Howes?

  You guys did a brilliant job with that too, you know, in the introduction. I remember like seeing the comments showing up and the views, or the views going up.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's actually how I first saw him because they sent me an email with the link. So, and actually I remembered, they didn't send me to, it was my friend actually. It was probably like six months prior and I had forgotten about this. But when I was making the movie, I remembered that I got an email saying, hey, check this, this kid out. You always get emails of like, check this cat out, like, I got the sneezing panda. And then, and I remember getting this email and then clicking it and be like, oh, it's another person seeing on YouTube. And then all of a sudden, watching the whole thing and be like, whoa, this kid is amazing.

• 23:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  And I didn't know that.

• 23:57Lewis Howes?

  How was he then?

• 23:57Speaker 01

  At that time, he was 14, 13. And I, and. Never connected with that guy being Justin Bieber. So I was like, that's how I want to start the movie. I want to start the movie with, you could be anybody getting any sort of link. And when you click on this, you're going to see a kid that blows you away. And you don't know what he becomes, but I'm going to show you what he becomes. I just got chills when you said that. And I'm like, really? Because I was going back to the movie. I remember that whole unfolding of that. Yeah, that was a key element for us of how I wanted to tell that story. And I remember pitching this to Scooter at the time. Like, okay, this is how I'm going to start the movie. I mean, I sort of painted the whole picture. What do you think about it? I remember just silence. And he looked at me and he's like, I like that.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  So he didn't pitch it to you? You didn't know Scooter at this time? No, I didn't really know. When I first had my, so Adam said, I want you to do this movie. I said, I'm, I'm open to it. He's like, well, you have to talk to his manager first. I was like, okay. He's like, he's this like 25 year old kid. Right. I'm like, wait, I'm older than him. Wow. This is going to be really weird. So I called Scooter, Scooter called me and we got on the phone and he was like, I just want to say that, you know, you've done some, because the step up movies were distributed by Disney. He's like, you've done a bunch of Disney stuff. Just wanted to tell you that I don't think Justin's a Disney person. And this is not a Disney type movie. So I'm not quite sure you're the right person. Wow. I was like, okay, all right, good. I like an honest person here in Hollywood. You don't get those that very often. So I laid it on the table.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  I was like, listen, bro, like, well, first of all, he said, oh, and you're, and you're a dancer. And that's not really what this is about. I'm like, one, I'm not a dancer. Two, the fact that you think I'm a dancer is great because when I do my movies, I, I, I jump into that world and, and you should think I'm a dancer by seeing that movie. And I'm like, I totally understand that. But most of my movies, whether it's dance or, you know, or music or action, it's, they're fairy tales. They're actually just sort of these parables and fairy tales that use these things as our language. And so in this one, this would be music. And so I pitched him sort of this concept of, I want to tell the story with the musical documentary part of it. And by the end of the conversation, it was like an hour and a half conversation. He's like,

• 26:09Speaker 01

  All right, you're the man. And we became like best friends since then and introduced him to his wife.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow, you did?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did.

• 26:17Lewis Howes?

  You introduced me to him.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:18Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  So.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  How did that happen?

• 26:20Speaker 01

  That happened.

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  He told me like saw her on Twitter one day or something.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:24Lewis Howes?

  And my stock her.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  He, she had tweeted me something, then he called me, was like, who's that?

• 26:30Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, you know, she's coming into town, you should meet her. And it didn't work out at that point. We were doing a Justin's tour for Believe at the point. The timing didn't work out, but then the next time he called me, uh, next time I, she was in town and she was looking for a house because she was moving to LA. And then I got a call from Scooter. He's like, I think I just saw that girl from the, from Twitter.

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  He's like hard stalking her.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm like, bro, you've got to meet. He's like, I'm leaving town tomorrow. You gotta meet today. And so I email them both and say, you know, it's hard to find great people in LA. I mean, I have these emails. It's really funny. And I said, you guys got to meet, uh, and you gotta do it today. And.

• 27:12Lewis Howes?

  Cause they were leaving, he was leaving tomorrow.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was leaving the next day. And then I sort of left it at that. Uh, I was like, oh, and I'm getting off this chain, so I don't want to know.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  And then like two weeks later, I get a call from Scooter. I don't even, I don't call again. I just leave it at, I, you know, who knows what happens? Everyone's very busy.

• 27:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Then he calls me and he's like, hey, I'm in Paris. I'm like, great. He's like, someone wants to talk to you.

• 27:33Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  And it's, yeah, I'm like, oh, it's still going. You're on a, you're on a date.

• 27:39Lewis Howes?

  Wild.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  So, uh, that's sort of how it all unfolded.

• 27:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's crazy.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's nuts.

• 27:46Lewis Howes?

  That's unbelievable. Okay. So I want to get back to the original question, what I asked before we went on this tangent.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:51Lewis Howes?

  Uh, what's your favorite part about making a film? And you call it a film or a movie? What's the technical term?

• 27:57Speaker 01

  It could go either, it could go either way.

• 27:59Lewis Howes?

  Flick?

• 27:59Speaker 01

  I say, I say film, I say movie.

• 28:01Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  You know, I think what, even in our conversation leading up to this question, I think it, what I originally thought intellectually, you're like, I love making movies to tell the thing that's in my heart. And of course, every movie, you have to find that, what you want to say in this. It's a very rare opportunity to have the microphone.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  As you know, and when you do get, get that opportunity, you want to make sure you're using it for something that's, that's good.

• 28:26Lewis Howes?

  It's powerful and inspiring.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  But the reality too, as I get older and as I do more and more, it's really, I think it's about the people that you meet. And it's about the people that you learn about, whether it's actors, learning about quirks and egos and how someone ticks and what makes you ticks tick. What gets you to find something in a story or find something in a moment or discover something about emotion when you're dealing with a scene. It really actually is a very sort of meditative thing because you get to explore every aspect of life that you probably would never get to experience in other ways.

• 29:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  And you get to be connected with people and also your cinematographer, also your editors, you're sitting there day after day, not seeing your family or friends. You're going through ups and downs, you're going through notes, you're going through frustrations, you're going through triumphs.

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  Deleting stuff constantly.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Deleting things, starting back and then going way back to the beginning, like maybe we were right on our first instinct. That journey, it's like giving birth every time to a new child and it's painful.

• 29:33Lewis Howes?

  Must be sore, man.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  And it's sore, yes. And when you're doing twins, it's even harder.

• 29:37Lewis Howes?

  You've got two movies right now.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  But when you come out of it, you come out a different person and you come out of experiences that literally you could not have experienced or you know that could not have been possible in any other way. And you feel stronger and you feel more connected with other people as well. And ultimately that comes down to the reason we make movies, the reason we watch movies is to feel connected as a community. So I think the more I go through it, that's really what drives me.

• 30:04Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Since your first film that was on, you know, in theaters, or when was that first film? What year was that?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  That was 2008. So there's this period of time when after the Steven Spielberg stuff, after getting connected to a big movie at Sony. I got connected to like five movies at different places, studios around a town from Warner Brothers, Sony to all these places. I actually didn't make a movie for five years.

• 30:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  I didn't make anything for five. I would develop those movies, you know, you work with the writers to get it into shape. It's called development hell.

• 30:38Lewis Howes?

  It's not producing, that's developing.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  That's developing your, I mean, you're attached to direct. So when those movies get greenlit, you're the director. But as a director, that's part of your job is to shepherd the project. But you can shepherd something for 10 years, you can shepherd something for 11 years and never go out.

• 30:53Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  So those five years as a, you know. Twenty-two-year-old kid coming into this world and sort of coming in with a bang. And then actually not making movies.

• 31:04Lewis Howes?

  Half a decade.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  And every year goes by, you're like, no, no, this next year, we're almost there. We're like so close on this project.

• 31:10Lewis Howes?

  You're like questioning and doubting yourself.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Absolutely. People are questioning you. People are like, oh, yeah, that's that kid that.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  Five years ago did something, but hasn't done squat or whatever. Wow.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  So you feel that pressure. You feel that, um, uh, I went through a lot going through there. But you, but I survived and you persevere through that. You have, you know, great friends and great family who are there to keep you on your feet during that point. And, uh, and so my first movie was, uh, well, actually what happened was I got a script. And it was a direct-to-DVD movie. It was a direct-to-DVD movie, uh, sequel to a dance movie. And I said, no, I was like, oh, I don't do, I don't do direct-to-DVD.

• 31:48Lewis Howes?

  But you haven't even done a movie yet.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  For some reason, I thought. So then I called my mom and she's like, when did you become a snob?

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  And I was like, what do you mean? Yeah, I know. It was, it was, it was a wake, a wake-up call. And she said, you, you're, you say you're storyteller, but storytellers can tell it in a commercial, a TV show, in a movie, a direct-to-DVD. Like, it doesn't matter if you're true. And you've never had the chance to even show yourself. You're like an NBA player that got recruited on a team, but you've been sitting on the bench. So here's your two minutes.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  You're not even in the D-League yet.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Exactly. And this maybe is the D-League and you got two minutes. Like, go show what you can do. Prove it.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  And, uh, I, I realized like, yeah, she's right. This is, you know, I'm gonna make the best damn direct-to-DVD dance movie sequel ever. So we went in there and said, the script sucks, but we're gonna change all this, all this. The studio, which was Summit, um, Disney had distributed the feature, but Summit was doing just the, uh, direct-to-DVD. They said, uh, they said, yes, go ahead and do that. Um, two weeks later, got a call from Disney. Orrin Aviv over there said, um, you know, we want to hear, we knew, we heard that John was attached, that we want to hear now what that version is. So we go in and pitch. Twenty minutes later, he says that we have a slot in February for you. Uh, it's gonna be a feature and your budget went from five million dollars to 20.

• 33:01Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  And, uh, and within, and he's like, as long as you can deliver it in eight months, eight or nine months. And I, I didn't know how long it takes to make a real movie. So I said, yeah, of course. And so we were like in production two months later, after waiting all those years. We were now starting with no script and I had to shoot in like two months.

• 33:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  And deliver a movie in those eight months. Uh, but that's how I got my first movie and it made, you know, uh, over a hundred and fifty million dollars.

• 33:25Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Worldwide and all that stuff. So it worked out very well.

• 33:28Lewis Howes?

  There's a step up too, or is it?

• 33:30Speaker 01

  There's a step up to the streets, yeah.

• 33:31Lewis Howes?

  Hundred million dollars worldwide.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  A hundred fifty million dollars.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  What's, I mean, what's a good movie make right now these days? Like is a hundred million, is that a grade? Is like the top ten percent?

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Well, it depends what your budget is. Our movie was, you know, twenty million, million dollars. So, uh, when you, when you.

• 33:46Lewis Howes?

  Multiply that much, that's pretty good, right?

• 33:47Speaker 01

  That's pretty good. Yeah. There's some marketing costs and things in there, but, but beyond that, we, you know, multiplied our, our thing by a lot. So, uh.

• 33:54Lewis Howes?

  It's not bad.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  So it was good and we made, I mean, I think they made like five more step up movies since then. So, uh, I think that was.

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. So you took a chance and it paid off, it sounds like.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Good. And I got to show off what I did, but also learn.

• 34:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  It was a great, um, it was a great platform to learn how to make a studio movie. Cause when you make studio movies, there's other agendas. You've got to deal with, uh, a studio. You've got to deal with, uh, marketing. You've got to deal with, um, all, all the things that come with it.

• 34:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Uh, cause you have a responsibility to, uh, this is the putting, you know, millions and millions of dollars, which the biggest thing I had done was like fifteen thousand dollars. So.

• 34:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Uh, you, and you actually learn how to work with a crew, a bigger crew.

• 34:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  You can't do everything for, you know, before I was like editing and doing, doing the sound and doing the thing, but, um.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  Now you're directing everyone else.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  At that point you've got it's just sort of like, uh, trust and learn how to communicate actually better.

• 34:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:44Lewis Howes?

  What would you say is the movie that you grew the most during that you were producing or directing in? What movie was that?

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Um, well, every movie's very, uh, every movie's very different. The reason I take movies is usually some sort of thing that I've never done before.

• 35:03Lewis Howes?

  A challenge.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. I think life is too short. You spend so much time on these things and you literally don't see your regular friends.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  The good ones.

• 35:12Lewis Howes?

  We've been trying to do this like two years. Yeah.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's true. It's true. And you get sucked into this weird world and so you want to make sure that it means something to you ultimately. Not just to make money or whatever. I mean, some people can do that. Every filmmaker, again, has their own journey, whether they want to make those five films and that's it. Or they want to say that one thing and that's it, or they never want to touch a studio movie. Studio movies are not for everybody. But for me, I grew up in an environment where movies were a celebration, movies were where we'd all go to the movies and get scared or laugh or feel something that we wanted to get out of our system. So although, I love the community of going to watch a movie. Yeah. When people would boo at the screen or cheer at the hero.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So those are the type of movies I love and I love to create. And so each movie I take is usually something crazy. So like Step Up to the Street, that was really to prove myself and I knew dancers. So that was fun to go do and learn the language of dance more than I had known, especially street dance, which I wasn't as familiar with. Met a bunch of great people. Step Up 3D, we shot in New York, so that was like a dream for any filmmaker to shoot in New York. And I had met a bunch of. This is actually in New York, not a Paramount fake New York. On the streets in New York, it was awesome. We shot all around town, Washington Square Park, Times Square, Grand Central Station. We picked all the best places. And we have dancers after dance, we have hundreds of dancers.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  And dancers that I'd met along the way that I was like, oh, that person's really interesting. I'd never seen that on film before. So we could reverse engineer some characters and stuff like that. But I got to learn 3D. This was before Avatar was out. And then, and then we came out, so Never Say Never, the documentary, which I'd never done a documentary before. And being on tour with somebody is a very different. So two months on tour? It was like a month on. It was actually, we had done some prep stuff, so I guess it was probably mounted to two months. But actually shooting was about a month.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  And and that was really fun because you could be there for all the intensity, but get out before it went too crazy.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  And and then G I Joe was a huge leap after that because it was a big hundred twenty five million dollar. The Rock was on that, right? The Rock, Bruce Willis. Wow. Channing Tatum was also in that, so we have a big cast. What was that like? It was awesome. The Rock is the coolest person. He's one of the guys I've been trying to get on since the beginning of the show. He's one of like the three guys I really want to get on. He is everything you want him, you want your hero to be. He is. He's so kind and badass and no apologies, funny as hell. That's awesome. He aspires for perfection, so it makes, pushes you as well. But he is like, he'll text me like, I remember when we were about to release the movie, like

• 38:07Speaker 01

  things like, this is your time, John, let's do this shit. Wow. Like random texts. And you're like, yes, yeah, we're gonna do this. So he's, he is, he is everything that he. Wow. That you think he is, that's who he truly is. I don't doubt that he's going to be President of the United States one day. Holy cow. His ambition is big and his, and his heart is big and you can feel it in everything he does. Amazing. And he's focused, so. That's cool. So it was a hundred fifty million dollar. That was a hundred and twenty five million dollar movie. Wow. Which is daunting and big explosions and thousands of extras. Wow. You're dealing with a franchise that's been around, so there's a lot of pressure from whether it's Hasbro or Paramount or wherever. So there's a lot of responsibility over that.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Fanboys that, you know, wanted a very specific way. Sure, sure. So I learned a lot in that. And and then we did another Justin Bieber movie, which was really fun, but I got to do his live show this time, his actual concert tour. And that was a great experience because it sort of broadened my view of like, you don't have all the control when you're doing a show because the artist is on stage and you can't edit anything, they're doing what they're doing. Yeah. But that was fun to work with Justin at that time. And and then, and then with Jem, we did this movie for very little. We did it through with Jason Blum, who does all these horror films for like less than five million dollars. Wow. So to do a big.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Uh, musical for five million dollars is a challenge. But I get full creative control in it, which is really fun. So I'm sort of using all that stuff. And but I got to use all my friends from film school and we got to build something that's very personalized. Uh, and shoot in L A. And then Now You See Me was a big daunting thing because you have a cast that is on another level. You're working with legends, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine.

• 39:59Lewis Howes?

  Huge.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Uh, even Jesse Eisenberg, who I really respect a lot, Mark Ruffalo. These guys are legends, um, if not already in the making. And Woody Harrelson, he plays twins in the movie. So there's a lot of challenges in in that as well. But every single one, I think, uh, you learn about not just the process. Cause the the trade of making movies, uh, but you can hire a lot of people who know those trades better. And you can rely on them. But about more about how I handle, how you how you stay on your vision.

• 40:32Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Or you how you create a collective collective vision without being, uh, without being a committee movie. You know, so that, um, and how you get what you want and how you protect the things that you need to protect. And fight the things that you need to avoid. So, yeah.

• 40:48Lewis Howes?

  How do you, I mean, so you go into every movie with your own vision. How do you enroll thousands of cast members potentially in these bigger movies in that vision? As opposed to them all saying, you know, the big legendary actors were like, oh, I want to do it this way. Or what do you think about this, John? Or, you know, how about we add this in there?

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:05Lewis Howes?

  How do you stay focused towards a vision with all that power?

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:09Lewis Howes?

  People pulling you different directions?

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. I I've dealt with it in different ways for different movies. And I think I'm still learning how the best way possible. You know, you look at other leaders and you look at people like our president or you look at, uh, other CEOs of how they run their business. Some people do it through fear. Some people do it through communication and love. Some people do it through understand. It's there's there's so many different ways and all are effective, to be honest. Uh, it's sort of what fits your own style and what kind of life you want to live as well. Because as a director, I could scare the shit out of people.

• 41:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  And make big, do big tantrums and leave the room and quit and get what I want. And that would be actually really darn effective. And sometimes I do want to do that to get it wrong. But I don't really want to live that life.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Uh, I think life is bigger than those things and um, you know, that affects your energy anyway. And I just choose not to do that. And I do think that um, like a computer, like a multi processor as a group. Uh, as long as you're choosing the right things, there's a lot of great ideas that can be mined and those things together. Have a synergy that one person could never create.

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  And uh, and so I love that idea, but as I get through, I think the the most important thing I've learned about. Communicating the vision or getting a unified vision is literally just one by one. Like when I, it's too daunting to think like, oh, I need to get, I need to make sure everybody, we have that scene in the right place. I need to like send blast out this email that like cuts down their ideas and gets to the vision. Uh, it's literally like.

• 42:46Lewis Howes?

  It's one by one.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Sitting down, talking to someone, looking them in the eye and saying, let me understand your concerns here. Most people have concerns for the right reasons. They may not have the right answer and you may not have the right answer. But as long as you have the same goal of trying to fix this concern of like, I'm just not feeling this character. Um, you know, some person could say, well, can you cut this scene? I think you listen more of the note of, oh, what does it mean that they don't feel this character? Which means they actually don't care about what they, or they don't know what they want in this movie. Which means it's not about that scene, it's about two scenes before that. And so by communicating with that actor, it's like, you know what, I think it's actually this point in the scene. Where you open your diary and we see exactly what you want.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  So by this point later, we'll be rooting for you instead of not knowing why you even want that thing. Uh, and I think it goes, it's a much more effective way. It takes a lot more time and a lot more energy and a lot more back and forth. But it's a much more, I think healthier way.

• 43:44Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Uh, but also you, the process of finding it makes you connect with that actor, with that producer, with the studio much more.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  And it is a harder process.

• 43:55Lewis Howes?

  Much harder than just saying suck it up, do your job, let's go.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Yes, I always say I would do, I would make movies for free. If you gave me a camera and actors like, let's go, I'll do it all day long. I can eat ramen all day long, it doesn't matter. Uh, what I get paid for is dealing with the politics and doing that job. Um, which I, you know, which is also part of storytelling, is also a part about understanding why. You want to tell this story or why, why other, someone else wants to tell, everyone came to this story for a different reason. And by understanding the purpose that everyone came here for, you may not be able to fulfill that for every single person. But you can find your balance of, of, of how you want to fulfill those things. And maybe they have a purpose that is actually bigger than yours that you jump on.

• 44:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. What would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned about yourself through in the last 15 years of doing movies? The most important lesson you've learned?

• 44:44Speaker 01

  That I learned about myself?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Gosh, there's uh so many things.

• 44:50Lewis Howes?

  Every movie you probably learn 20 new things about yourself.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Yes, but I think the, the, the, the one that has allowed me to survive the most is that I have really great family and friends. And I don't know why that happened. I don't know. I didn't purposely do that.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  I'm attracted to really great, good people and for some reason they believe in me. And for some reason, when I am not as good of a friend, sometimes they're still there for me.

• 45:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  And for some reason, when things are down, they know suddenly randomly to call. And to just keep me going because those are the people, those are the only people who really count. When you're, you know, at your deathbed and you've wrapped up your life here. And, uh, and so, and you know, you don't appreciate your friends and your family all the time. Or how lucky you are to have those people. Uh, but I think there's no way I could be doing what I'm doing without those people having to, uh, help me in that. And I, and I've relied on that actually now much more and I can count on that more. Where I sort of before was like, I don't need it. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good.

• 45:58Lewis Howes?

  You can do it on your own. Yeah, yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  What would you say you're most grateful for recently in your life?

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, I'm, I'm always grateful, uh, for, I'm always grateful for, like I said, friends and family. Like I think that that is the most powerful thing. You can have all the money in the world, you can have all the support in the world, but, but that is what keeps you up. But great, but recently I think I'm grateful to, uh, I think I'm grateful that I get the opportunity to make, do what I love. Like, if someone was like, aren't you gonna take a vacation? Like, you've done a movie every year. You need a vacation. And I think if you, and I'm sure you feel the same way, if you're doing what you love. There's, this is vacation.

• 46:38Lewis Howes?

  This is vacation, it's fun. You don't need to get away from anything.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  There's nothing to get away from. If I went somewhere on an island, which I love to do.

• 46:45Lewis Howes?

  You'd be thinking about, yeah, exactly.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  The only way to go there is to think about things. So, uh, so I feel very lucky, because I don't think everybody gets that opportunity. And I don't think everyone, um, gets to even really find what they love or even want. I was lucky when I was a kid, uh, I was lucky when I was a kid to somehow fall upon the thing that I would love and that would give me a voice. Cause I was a shy, well, sometimes a shy kid. Most of the time, a shy kid in front of public people. In my home, I was probably really annoying. But I didn't have a, I liked to draw, wasn't the best drawer. I loved to be on stage, but wasn't great at being on stage. I loved to, uh, animate stuff, wasn't great at that. Like to play songs, wasn't great at playing those songs. Uh, but, but film, um, I understood those things, which could help my film.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  But I, but that's what I could speak. And, um, and that's, to me, what saved my life, gave me a voice. And I, and I feel very lucky that I found that in third grade.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  Amazing, yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  I never doubted it.

• 47:44Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. What's the movie that you've been inspired by the most that you wish you would have? You'd been like, man, that'd have been a great story to tell. Like, what's the movie that you're like, man, you could watch over and over?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Well, Goodfellas I watched a lot before making a movie. Because I feel like it's such a unique vision. It's such, I could never make that movie. Literally, the subject matter, the world, the tone, it's just not my style in any way. But I love watching it because it reminds me that a scene can be a scene, but the way you shoot a scene is the scene. And, uh, and so I love, it inspires me every time that you, it makes you, pushes you to look at your script and say, this is just the beginning of what you should be doing. Um, and, uh, that E.T., of course, uh, is one of my first movies that I ever watched. Uh, has a lot of influence I love. There's it's it's an honest story, but it has a magical twist to it.

• 48:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  And I and I love that. Um, so.

• 48:41Lewis Howes?

  What's the movie that you were so excited to watch? That let you down where you were like, ah, it could have been told in this way and it would have been the best movie ever.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Oh, that's tough. That is tough.

• 48:53Lewis Howes?

  Whether it maybe be a story you already knew about or a character that you're like excited to see what they created.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean. I hate judging movies, especially being in the movie business now.

• 49:05Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Because it's a miracle that movies get made in the first place.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's a lot of work.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  And I don't think anyone ever intends to make a shitty movie. And even if you think it's shitty, it probably other people find other things in it. I mean, even our step up movies, they may not be the Academy Award winning movies. Uh, and and we may have a 25% on Rotten Tomatoes, but I'm telling you, there's a lot of people who became dancers becoming that or people who watch that stuff over and over again. It plays on ABC Family every time people, there is a spirit to it that goes beyond a review for it. So it's really hard for me.

• 49:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Uh, to and when people judge your movie, I, you know, that everyone has the right to do that. It's just like music, like it's a very personal thing. Everyone feels like an expert because they are an expert in their world of it. Uh. But I I I I I try to avoid.

• 49:53Lewis Howes?

  Rather not talk about.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Judging a movie.

• 49:55Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Well, what's the one you could you thought could have gone a different direction that would have made it in your mind?

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:00Lewis Howes?

  More powerful, maybe for other people that thought it was great, but in your mind could have told a different story.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Um, I would say.

• 50:09Lewis Howes?

  Shot on the spot here.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  This is really on the spot. Um.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  I'm trying to remember, I'm trying, I'm trying to think of a movie that I've, uh, all the movies I've seen recently have been pretty darn.

• 50:20Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Amazing. Um. I mean, I just saw Ex Machina. It was awesome. So, so good. That's a movie that I was, I'd be like, I want to make.

• 50:31Lewis Howes?

  That's a cool movie. Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  That movie. Um.

• 50:34Lewis Howes?

  I watch a lot of movies. I go to the Grove like or Arc Light, you know, once or twice a week at least.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Which one do you think?

• 50:40Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, that's good.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not so easy, right?

• 50:43Lewis Howes?

  I have to think and go back to the archives. I think maybe like, um, Captain America or something.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  The first one or the?

• 50:50Lewis Howes?

  I'm thinking the first one, yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  The second one was great.

• 50:53Lewis Howes?

  Even like Wolverine. I was like, ah, it was good, but I felt like it could have been even more epic.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:58Lewis Howes?

  I don't know. Some of those characters, I'm like, uh.

• 51:02Lewis Howes?

  So.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  There's so many things, you know, when you look at Avengers, like, there's so many things that it has to serve at a certain point. These companies are owned by conglomerates now and they have bigger purposes than just a movie itself. You look at, you know, even Cars, it's John Lasseter, it's Cars, it should be a genius movie.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  I don't love Cars as much as the other Pixar movies. I mean, they have a high bar to hit. So it's still a good movie, but like, you know, and John Lasseter is a genius. So how, how does that? But you see the toy sales and they make way more toy sales than any other product. They have more than Toy Story, more than any of those things. And so in a way, these movies are more like commercials for those toys.

• 51:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  So, you know, there's, there's a lot of different agendas in, in movies nowadays than what they used to.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  How does negotiating work? I want to ask you a few more questions. I feel like I could do this for another hour with you, but how, how does a negotiating work for you right now? When you're working on a movie, that's a $5 million movie that you just did compared to a $125 million movie. Is it a flat rate? Is it a flattery plus commission on how the movie does? How does that work for most directors?

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Well, they're very different. Every movie is a different deal, basically. And depending on how it's going to be released, depending on who's behind it, all those things. For me, I love the trade off of doing a big movie, a small movie. It gives you, uh, you know, when you do a smaller movie, you get a little bit more control. You get a little bit more, uh, you get a little, it's a little more what you remember as making movies because you've got to figure it out and it sometimes pushes you to be more creative. But every filmmaker, what I just went through, I think every filmmaker should go through. It was like financial whiplash going from a five million, not for myself personally, but for the movie itself. The, uh, going from a $5 million movie to a $125 million movie. Rack to back, you literally.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  But it's the same process.

• 53:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  No matter what resources you have, you come down to what actually making a movie is about. And what you need as a filmmaker to tell your story. So you don't get caught up in, oh, I need 20 trucks to bring 10,000 extras.

• 53:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  You realize the reality of the line that you can draw of your art and what you need to say. And actually that how much those things aren't that important. Yes, if you need scope and you're trying to tell this story of a specific thing, that costs money. It costs people, it costs resources. But ultimately telling a story, you could be by, you could be next to a fire at a campsite and be telling just as compelling story as in a movie theater in the dark.

• 53:43Lewis Howes?

  For 50 bucks, you know, a camera and whatever.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. I mean, storytelling is storytelling. You could be on a podcast with no pictures, be painting every picture.

• 53:52Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  You could be saying no words and just be doing sounds and tell very. So it, you know, what I, what I see my job as is less of a, of a movie maker, a filmmaker, and more of a storyteller. And are the genre that that happens to be in is audio visual. And, and big, you know, big theater sort of presentation. But I feel like those, that's not my skill set. That's just the tool that I'm using in that thing. To me, if you gave me a commercial, we just did the Virgin America safety video, which is like the, you know, how to put on your seatbelt and stuff as a Virgin America. You can watch that on the flight and, but even something like that.

• 54:31Lewis Howes?

  It's like dancing happening right there.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Dancing and all that stuff. So, so even that was like, we had to work with the FAA to figure out how best to make people pay attention. And I felt just as sort of emotionally involved in something as small and crazy as that as a bigger movie.

• 54:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  So it's all comes from the same well. So that's what I try to hone more, less about like, how does that camera work? And how do I zoom in on the blah, blah, blah? Or how, what's that? And more of like, oh, what, if that helps me communicate something more in what I'm doing, then, then I'll pay attention.

• 55:04Lewis Howes?

  But I would assume, you know, 125 million dollar movie, you'd be getting a bigger upfront.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Pay as opposed to a five million dollar movie. You're making like, you know, you can't make a million dollars on a five million dollar movie. Yes, yes. Up front. Yes. As you could potentially 125 million dollar movie. So how's the backend work for you? So the, so, so the, so something like what we, what we just did with Blumhouse. So Jason Blum does these a lot. And his model is this, any movie under five million dollars. So it's like a, and they're usually like two or three. Right. And they're horror films. So they're in a very specific genre. You have to shoot in LA. You have to, you only get a certain amount of time for pre-production, uh, production and post-production. So those are lockdowns. You cannot negotiate that. You cannot go overtime. You cannot do anything. It is a very specific thing. So your process changes in that.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  You don't get paid, you get paid like minimum upfront. So you get paid, you're betting on yourself basically because your backend is bigger than you'll ever get in any of those bigger movies. Um, and you get full creative control. Hmm. Which is the kicker. Pretty cool. So that's kind of fun for you because it's like. It's a fun thing. I get to do whatever I want. You can't tell me what to do. Exactly. Cause I'm getting paid nothing upfront. So let's, you know. And you're betting on your own. Your storytelling and your creativity. Your own movie. Yeah. And that's fun. At a certain point when you're like, let's bet on ourselves right now. I mean, I think it was like Ethan Hawke who did The Purge and all this stuff. Like. Wow. Ultimately, The Purge made a hundred and something million dollars and has sequels and all this stuff. It was like a five million dollar movie or what? Uh, it was like a four million dollar movie. Wow.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  And, you know, when you're making that kind of multiple and you're getting first dollar gross, which big studios don't do that anymore. Uh, you're making a lot, lot more money on that little one. Than you would on a big one. We would have on a big one. But, but only if it hits that scale, you know, it hurts. Gotcha. Scale. So things like even like, uh, Believe, uh, Justin Bieber's Believe where, uh, Paramount was not involved in that one. I did not get paid as much upfront, but ultimately, and the movie didn't make as much as Never Say Never by a lot, but. Still did well. It did well. And I made more money on that one personally than I did on Never Say Never. Really? Um, because we're, it's just a different. And you're still getting royalties on these movies, right? And all these, yeah, all these movies you continue to get royalties. Amazing.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  If they're play, and the movies I make are, uh, are fun because they get to be played. They, they are enjoyed over and over again. They're on TNT and ABC Family. So they're always on all those, those channels. So, uh, you're constantly getting, uh. Nice royalty checks. That's good. Yeah. Those are a surprise. You're like, oh, great.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  What's the story you want to tell next that you've never told?

• 57:38Speaker 01

  I don't know, to be honest. I've cleared my slate. When I was doing these two movies, I was like, I need to just clear it and then see where I am.

• 57:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I think as artists, what's fun is that you get to evolve and change.

• 57:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  I don't like to try to preempt where I'm gonna be, because it's a lot of energy and emotion and years on the line. So I like to, you know, even now you see me, I could not have predicted that I would have done that movie. It came to me. I get a lot of different movies that come to me. It came to me at a time where I felt like that's what I needed and wanted to do. Go to London, shoot a movie. London and Macau, so you got to do a little China shoot as well. And with these great actors and Magic, it all seemed very, how could you say no to that? And having come just off of a smaller movie, it was like a really fun jump to do that. Uh, and so, uh, we'll see what the, what the, what the next year brings, but I'm, uh,

• 58:33Speaker 01

  eyes wide open and ears open and everything sort of open to accept things and see where that may be.

• 58:40Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Two final questions. One is, with all the stories you've told, with everything you've said, you've put out a lot of great content. Uh, if it was all erased, everything was gone, and you had a piece of paper, or you had one final video, uh, 60 second video that you got to put up on your YouTube channel is the only video that people ever saw of you ever again.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:03Lewis Howes?

  It was the three truths that you know to be true about your experience from making movies, life, everything you've seen and done, three truths that you would give back to the world. Here's the final three things that you need to know about what you can do to be, you know, about the world. What would you say as your final video?

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Three, those three things.

• 59:23Lewis Howes?

  Truths about what you've experienced in life, the things you know about it, and what you would want people to take away if that was your only message you can give to them.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Well, one would be, and this is something that I think why we make movies, and this is something why I got into movies, and this is something that I think is in all stories, is that you are not alone. I think that we, most of our lives feel alone and detached and out of place, and trying to find our path, and trying to find how we fit in, which is normal. And I think the reason we make movies, or the reason I make movies specifically, is to say, your struggle is exactly where you're supposed to be. Because you're not alone in that struggle, and we're all going through that, and that's okay.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  I think,

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  as you go through your struggles, that's like the most powerful thing you can do to get through that.

• 1:00:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Second one is something, and a piece of advice I got a long time ago, which is, you are what you do every day. So like, I was like, well, how do I become a director? And this person said, well, no one's gonna give you that label, no one's gonna put that on your door. You're just, you just are, you're not, you're not, no one's gonna give you a business card that says you're an entrepreneur one day, you just either are or not. And you are what you do, if you're a director, you direct something every day of your life. If you're a writer, you just write every day, whether someone's paying you or not. If you give little white lies here and there, guess what, you're a liar. It doesn't matter how small or how big, that's what you are. And I think that that's in all aspects of my life. I'm not saying I'm perfect at any of those things, but I try to check myself on the things that I do.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Even as stupid as like rolling a stop sign, in my mind, I'm like, well, that's what you are. If you are doing that, you slide things and do things, which is fine. I mean, I do it all the time, maybe that's what I am. But I like to remind myself of that, because that's the only thing that you give to this earth, is what you're doing and what you're being.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  And the third one

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  is um I think it's something to do with appreciate who you have or what you have with things that are around you. Uh, I think life goes by so fast.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Uh, and every time, but, but at the same time, every time I say that life just keeps going longer and longer. So I guess life is actually long as well. But the things that uh you affect or that affect you are the things that are right there next to you and appreciate that that you were given those things or that those things were um that you or that those things found you.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Because that's all, that's all the gifts that we were given here. So I would say I've never been asked that question. I never said that loud, so I'd have to recheck if that was right, but off the top of my head, I think those are the three things.

• 1:02:25Lewis Howes?

  Those are great. Yeah, those are great. Uh, one final question, but before I uh, ask you that, where should we go to connect with you? Where do you like to hang out the most online? Where should we?

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Uh, Twitter, I'm on Twitter all the time.

• 1:02:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  Um, both good and bad. Bring it. Let's go.

• 1:02:42Lewis Howes?

  At John Chu.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  At John, I'll chat at John M Chu, J O N M C H U.

• 1:02:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Uh, Instagram as well, at John M Chu. Um, those are the places sort of where I hang out.

• 1:02:51Lewis Howes?

  If you want to check out the archives of your YouTube videos, check those out as well. You have a huge follow, but you don't put any videos out anymore.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, uh, back in the day, you know, when

• 1:03:00Lewis Howes?

  The Legion of Extraordinary.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  We did the LXD, which was great. You should check that out on YouTube. But also we had um this battle with Miley Cyrus and this is after the five years of emptiness of that I didn't do anything. I, by that time YouTube was created and I and I had promised myself from then on, I would never have a five year drought of making anything. Even if I wasn't doing a movie, I would do, make something and post it online. So these things are the things that helped me in between all the, all the different movies.

• 1:03:25Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Uh, so make sure to reach out with you and you, you get back to people sometimes here and there. Yeah, cool.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:03:32Lewis Howes?

  Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, John, for the way you create and inspire greatness in other people, you know, before I even knew who you were, you made me cry. And you made me want to watch the movie over and over again and you made me

• 1:03:50Lewis Howes?

  Learn more about myself through the story you told. And I was a kid in Ohio watching this movie before I even knew that you were even the director. And so I want to acknowledge you for your creativity and your honesty and your ability to bring the greatest inspiration in every story you tell to impact the maximum amount of people. I think you've been given an incredible platform. And I'm so glad that you're the one who's directing these movies because you get to inspire so many people to live better lives, to think differently, to check themselves and ask them, how am I showing up in the world, even if it's through a silly entertainment thing or something that may not seem like it.

• 1:04:30Lewis Howes?

  We're affected by what you're creating. So I want to acknowledge you for your gifts and the talents that you bring to the world.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

• 1:04:38Lewis Howes?

  Final questions, what I ask everyone at the end.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:40Lewis Howes?

  What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Definition of greatness? Well, I don't think you can define your own greatness. I think that that is something that others can say to you.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Uh, and so in my mind, your greatness is how much you uh, give to others. Uh, and uh, because by giving to others means you have some sort of self, you have, you have, you have gotten yourself in a position or, or found something in your own journey that you can share. And I think that takes a journey in itself, which is a whole thing, but I think by when you can actually start thinking about others and not just about your own survival, I think you've reached your greatness and you should continue to, to, to give that way.

• 1:05:31Lewis Howes?

  I love it. John Chu, thanks for coming on, brother. Appreciate it, man.

• 1:05:36Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Make sure to head back to the show notes at lewishouse.com/237. Check out all the stuff that John is up to. Make sure to follow him over on Instagram and social media. I'll have that all linked up over at the show notes. Check out his movies that are coming out. This guy is an incredible director, credible storyteller and visionary. So make sure to check them out, follow him and be inspired. Also, if you were inspired by this story, make sure to share this with your friends over on social media and tag me at Lewis Howes. And at John Chu over on Instagram to stay connected and hear about what we're up to and where you're listening to this podcast. So, thank you guys so much for all you do.

• 1:06:21Lewis Howes?

  Thank you for continually supporting me and supporting the show. It's why I'm able to bring on guests like John and incredible, inspiring people. Because you continue to listen and apply it to your life and spread the message of greatness. You're incredible. You're up to big things. The world has a lot of greatness out there and it's time you go capture it. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.