Pod Insights The School of Greatness 22 Shawn Johnson: The Mindset of an Olympic Champion About this episode Do you know what it feels like to be a world champion and Olympic gold medalist? Most of us will never make the Olympics, but what if you could LEARN and APPLY this same mindset to your business, career, health and relationships? If you're like me, you know it would be a powerful mindset to […] Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Lewis Howes? This is episode number 22 with Shawn Johnson.
0:07 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
0:32 Lewis Howes? What is up, all you beautiful greats out there? I hope you're having a fantastic week, wherever you are in the world. And a quick shout out to our Fan of the Week, Johnny Jensen, who tagged a picture on Instagram from Maidstone East Railway Station in Maidstone, England. So, big shout out to you, Johnny. Thanks for posting and listening in. I appreciate you. And there's lots of pictures you guys have been posting on Instagram and on Twitter and on Facebook of where you're listening to the School of Greatness. So, keep on posting. I appreciate it. We've got a huge episode this week. It's with the one and only Shawn
1:13 Lewis Howes? Johnson. Now, if you've been living under a rock for the last four or five years, you wouldn't know about Shawn, but she is basically America's sweetheart. She won an Olympic gold medal in Beijing in gymnastics, and she won a number of silver medals as well. She also won a show called Dancing with the Stars a few years ago. And she's just an amazing individual, a pleasure to be around. And she actually beat me in CrossFit this last week, which was a little bit embarrassing. But there was a gymnastics element to it. So, I mean, you've got a 6'4" guy that has no clue what he's doing in gymnastics, and you have the world champion in gymnastics. She better be able to beat me. But, other
1:57 Lewis Howes? than that, I did beat her at another exercise. So, we're even now, and we're going to keep the competition going. I think she's probably going to dominate me long term. But it's been fun hanging out and at least beating her one time at something. Now, I'm excited to share with you guys this interview, because Shawn has some amazing insights. Now, when you get to perform at the hardest level of sports, the Olympics, and all the pressure's on you. Millions and millions of people watching you all around the world and you're only 16 years old and you come out with a gold medal. You've got something inside you that should be shared with the world.
2:40 Lewis Howes? So we're going to learn about what Shawn thought about right before these big moments and how she was able to focus in when all the pressure from the world, family, friends, town, state, country was all on her. How could she target in and harness her greatness and let it out at the right moment? She's going to talk about that. She's also going to talk about her experience with Dancing With The Stars and a lot of other cool things she's been up to. I'm very excited to share this interview with you. So make sure to stay tuned and listen to the entire thing. You're not going to want to miss out. She is spectacular. I want to share the quote of the week before we get into the interview.
3:20 Lewis Howes? And I've been doing a lot more lately of pushing myself and stretching myself and really going for it. Not playing small in the world anymore, but really stretching to see how far I can really go in all senses of the word and how much I can get done and how much I can create in a shorter amount of time as opposed to giving myself longer deadlines, giving myself shorter deadlines and actually seeing what is possible when I put a little pressure on myself and what I can actually create. So the quote of the week is this. It's from Mario Andretti. He says, "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
4:05 Lewis Howes? So think about it right now. How is your day, your week, your month going? Do you feel like, ah, it's pretty good? It's pretty easy, pretty relaxed, you know, nothing too challenging for you? If so, why don't you start putting some pressure on yourself to create more, to play bigger in the world, to start dominating in your industry, in your workouts, with your, whatever you're trying to create, whatever you're trying to accomplish, start pushing yourself, stretching yourself to actually create it faster, to get it done, to make it bigger. To change the world more. So that's what I want to challenge you guys with this week.
4:41 Lewis Howes? And make sure to tweet that out if you like that quote. But here we go, guys. This is what you've all been waiting for. This is with the queen, America's sweetheart. All the other cool words you want to say about her. But I'm excited to introduce you to the one and only Shawn Johnson.
5:06 Lewis Howes? All right. What's up everyone? Lewis Howes here and I've got a new good friend Shawn Johnson who's in the studios with me today. What's up Shawn?
5:13 Speaker 01 What's up?
5:14 Lewis Howes? We were just salsa dancing a little earlier and Shawn was teaching me a little bit of her moves, but she can turn and move it.
5:21 Speaker 01 Not really. I just be pushed on the floor.
5:24 Lewis Howes? You just like to be pushed around the floor?
5:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
5:26 Lewis Howes? So we were just talking about where Shawn is from because she said that's what usually is like the most boring question she gets. But she's actually from West Des Moines, Iowa, not Des Moines, Iowa. So we just want to make that distinction here. And for those that don't know Shawn Johnson, she is a superstar. She's Olympic gold medalist, silver medalist in like six events and world champion, national champion. Just pretty much everything. You've won everything, right?
5:53 Speaker 01 Nah, sure. I don't know.
5:56 Lewis Howes? She's, she's super humble too. So she's probably never going to brag about it, but extremely talented. I'm, I'm excited to talk to you. We've been hanging out for about the last hour. And she's been making fun of how tall I am. She's about 4'11", right?
6:11 Speaker 01 Hey, come on. Just say five foot. It sounds better.
6:14 Lewis Howes? But I think she's probably 4'11".
6:15 Speaker 01 I'm probably 4'11".
6:16 Lewis Howes? Which is like, isn't that like technically under, isn't that midget size?
6:20 Speaker 01 No, it's not. It's 4'7". Now it's been Googled because people have talked to me so much about this.
6:26 Lewis Howes? You sure?
6:27 Speaker 01 It's 4'7".
6:27 Lewis Howes? You get it all the time, don't you? Well, your Wikipedia, let me see what your Wikipedia says because that's like.
6:31 Speaker 01 Well, it's about 16. I was 4'7" when I competed at the Olympics.
6:35 Lewis Howes? How it says? Let me see here. It says 4'9".
6:38 Speaker 01 Well, that was in my in-between stage.
6:40 Lewis Howes? Okay. So she's 4'11" and you just turned 21 recently, right?
6:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, January.
6:47 Lewis Howes? Okay. It's pretty amazing what you've done and. Basically, you're 21 and you've accomplished more than people are ever gonna accomplish.
6:55 Speaker 01 I know, I forget half the stuff that I've already done. Yeah, I like to look back at pictures and stuff, I'm like, oh.
7:00 Lewis Howes? Like Beijing seems like forever ago.
7:02 Speaker 01 It does. London seems like forever ago. I mean, I didn't compete, but still getting to experience that, yeah. I was working.
7:08 Lewis Howes? Working or for?
7:09 Speaker 01 Uh, I worked for the Today Show.
7:12 Lewis Howes? Oh, did you?
7:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:13 Lewis Howes? Every day you're doing like interviews?
7:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:15 Lewis Howes? Oh, that's gotta be cool.
7:15 Speaker 01 I did all their social media work. It was pretty cool.
7:17 Lewis Howes? Really?
7:18 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
7:18 Lewis Howes? Interesting. Yeah, I was there. We didn't, we didn't qualify for Team Handball unfortunately, so I just pouted and watched the team that did go.
7:26 Speaker 01 Well, I didn't qualify either, so I was crowding a little bit too.
7:30 Lewis Howes? Now, you were, uh, you got injured in 2010?
7:35 Speaker 01 Yes.
7:35 Lewis Howes? Skiing?
7:36 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
7:37 Lewis Howes? And you weren't supposed to ski?
7:38 Speaker 01 No.
7:39 Lewis Howes? And I know you've talked about this a bunch.
7:41 Speaker 01 It's okay.
7:42 Lewis Howes? But I wanna talk about comebacks and what it takes, uh, I guess mentally to like come back from an injury like that. Cause I've had major injuries where I've had to sit out a year of football and things like that, and I've had, I've had to retire as well. And when I watched some videos of you on YouTube competing before you got injured, you were like so in the zone when I would watch. Maybe they just showed the ones that you're in the zone when I saw, but you were so in the zone. And it was like, it was beautiful to watch. It was amazing. Because you had this look in your eyes before. I, I watched before you about to go out, you'd have this look in your eyes. But then when you were performing, it was like, you just had the whole package.
8:27 Lewis Howes? Because you had the look, but you also had like the confidence, you had the energy, you had the smile. You weren't just like rigid the whole time. I wanna learn about what it was like when you came back from the injury. How did it feel, I guess, mentally, confidence wise, poised wise? Did you feel like you had that same mentality? But just the physical stuff, maybe you were a little off from the injury, or how did you feel?
8:50 Speaker 01 Um, I think I lost all of it.
8:52 Lewis Howes? Really?
8:53 Speaker 01 Yeah. Um.
8:54 Lewis Howes? The mental side, the physical side of the confidence?
8:56 Speaker 01 I think it was still there, but up until I got injured, I had never been injured. I had sprains, strains, pulls, but I'd never been taken out of my sport for a longer duration than two weeks. And I almost had that sense of like invincibility. I thought I could do anything and.
9:18 Speaker 01 You kind of feed off that. I think my confidence feeded off of that and um when I got injured, it kind of stripped all of that away. I found that I was hesitant. I found a a fear kind of aspect that I'd never had before.
9:34 Lewis Howes? You never felt fear before, really?
9:36 Speaker 01 You know, things made me nervous, but it was a thrill. I mean, it wasn't like a genuine fear of, you know, you could be laying in a hospital bed like you did the.
9:44 Lewis Howes? So you're afraid of like pain, like injury?
9:46 Speaker 01 I was. I, coming back from my triad uh of my knee, it it was awful. I I am physically active every single day, all day, and having to lay in a hospital bed or a P T bed and kind of be humbled by the fact you had to start over.
10:06 Lewis Howes? So humbling.
10:07 Speaker 01 It's, you go from the top of the world down to the bottom and I mean, there's things that can be a lot worse, of course, so I I hate to complain about that, but I remember coming out of surgery and them saying, well, we're gonna have to teach you how to walk again and the climb a stair. And I was like, I'm an Olympic athlete, you know, I'll be back in a couple of weeks, whatever. And, you know, I still struggle with it. It's been two and a half years.
10:29 Lewis Howes? You struggle with walking or?
10:30 Speaker 01 No. With my knee, with my knee.
10:34 Lewis Howes? You still feel pain? You still feel things you can't do?
10:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's just, again, it's frustrating because when I was competing, I felt like I was Iron Man. I mean, I even feel like I could, Iron Woman, like I could do anything. And after I got injured, it's, you just have that hesitation there and I just kept picturing myself tearing it again or feeling that pop and I would give anything to go back to my comeback and be able to take that hesitation away, but I literally couldn't find a way to do it.
11:04 Lewis Howes? What do you think you would have need to do to overcome that fear after, when coming back from injury? Like if you could say, say you could go back now, you're like, I could do anything to go back, how would you change it so you could get back to the place when you were sixteen? That fearless young woman who?
11:20 Speaker 01 I don't know. I I feel like especially when I was sixteen, I had a sense of just.
11:26 Speaker 01 I was naive. I was innocent. I had no idea.
11:29 Lewis Howes? Never been injured, so you didn't know what it felt like?
11:30 Speaker 01 No, I, I mean, I, I kinda didn't even think for myself. My coach thought for me. He would tell me to go do something I would. Whereas when I got older, I, it, it, I understood the way things worked more. You know, he would tell me to go do a triple twisting double back. I'm like, okay. I have to think about that one now. And that sounds impossible.
11:49 Lewis Howes? Really?
11:50 Speaker 01 You know, it just registers different.
11:52 Lewis Howes? Did you say a triple flip?
11:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I've never done that.
11:54 Lewis Howes? Okay.
11:55 Speaker 01 Slightly exaggerating for dramatic effect. Um, no, um, but it was, it's difficult. I don't know if there's anything I could change except for have been given more time to train, to hopefully train that out of me.
12:09 Lewis Howes? Train it out of you.
12:10 Speaker 01 But
12:12 Speaker 01 I think it's just a mental thing that kinda gets, lack of a better word, broken.
12:16 Lewis Howes? Hmm. Is there a way to get it back, you think?
12:19 Speaker 01 I think there definitely is. I'd say time.
12:22 Lewis Howes? When someone's injured, you're just.
12:23 Speaker 01 No, I mean, not at all. I feel like there, you can definitely overcome anything, especially injuries of all sorts. People have come back and been extremely successful. I, I made it back into international competition. I medaled. I.
12:36 Lewis Howes? Two thousand and eleven, right?
12:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, and.
12:37 Lewis Howes? I saw the Visa championships, right?
12:40 Speaker 01 Um, yep, Visa and then Pan Ams.
12:43 Lewis Howes? Oh, and you medaled?
12:44 Speaker 01 I medaled, yeah. Um, silvers. As always, always silver.
12:50 Lewis Howes? You got gold in a couple.
12:51 Speaker 01 I got a few gold, yeah. Um. But I think it just in my case, I don't think my heart was in it anymore.
13:00 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
13:00 Speaker 01 I.
13:01 Lewis Howes? You weren't like a hundred percent passionate?
13:03 Speaker 01 Um, I was passionate over the idea. But I was doing it for other people.
13:08 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
13:09 Speaker 01 I wanted for myself, I wanted to get back just to know I could.
13:14 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
13:14 Speaker 01 And it's like, as soon as I. I did make it back to Pan Am's and championships. I was successful and
13:21 Lewis Howes? You didn't need to win.
13:22 Speaker 01 I didn't need it, no. And I I proved myself that my knee could last, but I always said the reason why I retired was my knee had issues. It was torn again and I needed surgery and didn't have time. But I remembered back in two thousand eight how much the Olympics meant to me. Like I lived it, I breathed it. It was my entire world. And had I continued without retiring, I had a chance of making the team, a decent chance.
13:53 Lewis Howes? In London.
13:53 Speaker 01 In London.
13:54 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
13:55 Speaker 01 And I told myself that if I was given one of those places, knowing that it didn't mean that much to me anymore, I'd be taking it away from a sixteen year old who whose world that was. And that crushed me. I didn't think it was fair.
14:10 Lewis Howes? Hmm. But what if you were more talented than a sixteen year old?
14:16 Speaker 01 I think
14:16 Lewis Howes? More experienced, more talented.
14:18 Speaker 01 I think, well, first of all, they did pretty well. They won. Um, but I I I have always been a firm believer in like passion over talent. I think, you know, you can be the, you can be the biggest or the most talented person in the world. But if you don't love what you do, then it's not going to show and it's not going to work.
14:35 Lewis Howes? Right.
14:35 Speaker 01 And you don't really necessarily have to have it, you know, the greatest talent. But if you work for it and you love it, then you'll have better results.
14:44 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you said once in your book, that life will be richer once you find your passion, but never lose sight of everything else. If one activity becomes everything to you, you may have nothing left if you lose it. So
14:57 Speaker 01 Thank you.
14:58 Lewis Howes? You have all these great lessons in your book.
15:00 Speaker 01 Thank you.
15:00 Lewis Howes? So you decided that even if you got it, you wouldn't do it? Or you thought you decided it wouldn't be fair if you got it?
15:05 Speaker 01 Kind of like I said there, I just, I knew it wasn't my passion anymore.
15:09 Lewis Howes? It wasn't the main thing.
15:10 Speaker 01 I knew I had, I don't know, I felt like I could do more good going and being the team's cheerleader.
15:15 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
15:16 Speaker 01 Than I could going and competing. And it was something that just clicked one day. I knew I was done. I knew I couldn't go any further. I had images of me not being able to walk when I was thirty because I was, you know, killing my body so much and my knee and not putting my health first. And then I saw the other girls I trained with who Would literally do anything to be there and I just kind of as I was like in the mama role when I went back because I was so old. Um, I don't know. I just, yeah, I just couldn't see myself taking it from them.
15:51 Lewis Howes? Hmm. Interesting. Now, I'm interested in here, your answer to this. I have a feeling what I know what you're gonna say, but if you could go back to the day you went skiing, would you not go skiing that day or would you ski still?
16:07 Speaker 01 I would still ski.
16:08 Lewis Howes? That's what I thought.
16:09 Speaker 01 Everything happens for a reason.
16:10 Lewis Howes? That's what I thought you'd say.
16:11 Speaker 01 And, you know, my comeback, the injury, everything was, I think, for the better. I mean, it taught me a lot, just it humbled me a lot, learning that I, you can be broken, but you can also get back up from it and, you know, making the comeback and deciding retire. I learned that I was doing it for the wrong reason. I was doing it not for me, but I also learned to make a decision based on, you know, it went against everything the entire world was telling me to do.
16:43 Lewis Howes? Right.
16:43 Speaker 01 And I made it for me and it was the best thing. So I, I learned lessons the hard way. My parents, they always learned lessons the hard way.
16:49 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure. A lot of us do.
16:51 Speaker 01 It's a fun way to do it.
16:52 Lewis Howes? It is. It's more fun. Now, did you feel a lot of pressure going into 2008? Because you were like the world champion before then in 07, right?
16:59 Speaker 01 Uh, yeah.
17:00 Lewis Howes? Did you feel like the weight of the world on your shoulders or the country? Or were you just kind of like, um, so passionate about the Olympics?
17:08 Speaker 01 I, I definitely felt pressure. I mean, if you ask anybody around me, I was a stress ball, pretty much.
17:14 Lewis Howes? Really?
17:14 Speaker 01 Um.
17:15 Lewis Howes? You were like the golden girl back then, right?
17:16 Speaker 01 A little bit. They, they had me pegged to come home with six gold medals.
17:22 Lewis Howes? Oh, my God. That's too much pressure.
17:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, front.
17:24 Lewis Howes? Sixteen year old, right?
17:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, front page of every newspaper. I was like, great. Um, but in, in a way, I loved it back then. I liked the motivation. I liked the challenge. Um, I think I was more capable of handling it back then than I am now. Such a people pleaser now that I'm like, oh, gosh, if I come back with one, they're not gonna be happy.
17:45 Lewis Howes? Right, right, right. That's funny. Now, did you have more pressure the first time around or after you came back, you felt?
17:52 Speaker 01 I personally feel like I had more pressure the second time.
17:54 Lewis Howes? Yeah, why?
17:55 Speaker 01 Um, because the last time people saw me compete was in two thousand eight. Being on top of the world.
18:02 Lewis Howes? You came back in two thousand ten or two thousand eleven?
18:04 Speaker 01 I came back and competed for the first time in two thousand uh ten.
18:08 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
18:09 Speaker 01 And bombed.
18:10 Lewis Howes? Before the injury?
18:12 Speaker 01 This is after the injury.
18:12 Lewis Howes? After the injury, yeah, bombed.
18:14 Speaker 01 Bombed, fell on everything.
18:15 Lewis Howes? I think I saw a couple of those.
18:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, probably.
18:18 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
18:18 Speaker 01 Um, but it's again humbling to know you have to start. You can't just walk back in where you were. You have to start over.
18:27 Lewis Howes? Sure.
18:28 Speaker 01 But people kind of put out their, I don't know, their own reason as to why I was coming back. And no one ever really asked what my reason was.
18:39 Lewis Howes? They just assumed, right?
18:40 Speaker 01 And everything was because I didn't win gold in the all around. I was coming back for redemption.
18:46 Lewis Howes? Right, right.
18:46 Speaker 01 Had nothing to do with it.
18:48 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
18:49 Speaker 01 So I don't know, I feel like the, the pressure came back with. The only thing people expected to see was what I was in two thousand eight or better. And I was a different person.
18:59 Lewis Howes? You're a different person, yeah, I think I remember you saying that in an interview. Now, one of the things is you said when you were training, when you were growing up, that you decided not to do the typical amount of hours, right?
19:10 Speaker 01 Yep.
19:11 Lewis Howes? Was it normally like forty hours a week as most gymnasts do?
19:13 Speaker 01 Forty to fifty.
19:14 Lewis Howes? And you said, I'm gonna have a balance in my life.
19:16 Speaker 01 Pretty much.
19:17 Lewis Howes? And I'm gonna do twenty or twenty-five or?
19:19 Speaker 01 Yep.
19:19 Lewis Howes? Half, basically.
19:20 Speaker 01 Yep.
19:21 Lewis Howes? Do you think if you would have done the forty, it would have changed anything? You think it would have been more pressure, more stress?
19:26 Speaker 01 I don't think I would have made it.
19:27 Lewis Howes? You wouldn't have made it because it would have been too much, right?
19:29 Speaker 01 I think I would have broken.
19:30 Lewis Howes? You were, you were more loose because you were only doing twenty hours a week, right?
19:33 Speaker 01 I had, I still had freedom. I still had a room to be a kid. I went to dances, I went to football games, I got to go play with friends and do homework and go to school and have friend, you know, just have a normal life. And I saw a lot of girls who didn't get that, who didn't make it. Because of it.
19:55 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
19:56 Speaker 01 And I think they could have.
19:57 Lewis Howes? Because they were training so hard.
19:58 Speaker 01 Because they overtrain. You know, when you're, when you're 12 years old and living in a gym, doing 50 hours a week, you homeschool there, you do everything. You don't have friends outside.
20:07 Lewis Howes? Homeschool at the gym?
20:08 Speaker 01 Homeschool at the gym.
20:09 Lewis Howes? Did you do that for a while?
20:10 Speaker 01 No, never.
20:11 Lewis Howes? Oh my gosh.
20:12 Speaker 01 My coach fortunately didn't believe in that. He wanted, he wanted an outlet. He wanted all of his girls to be able to get away from the sport. And he said, that's what kept your mind fresh. Well, when you see a 12 year old break because they're doing 50 hours. I mean, of course they're not going to go any further.
20:31 Lewis Howes? That's crazy. What do you think's the difference between a champion and second place?
20:37 Speaker 01 That's a hard question. Cause I have many, I have many different opinions on that. Um. I don't know. Given my past of like the all around coming in second place. I knew there was physically and mentally, nothing more I could have done. So I did. So to say that I could have given more.
21:00 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
21:00 Speaker 01 And the difference between champion and second is an effort of any sort.
21:06 Lewis Howes? You gave your best.
21:06 Speaker 01 I mean, I lived it. I breathed it. I trained my entire life for it. I couldn't have done more. I mean, even if I went back and said I could have, I don't think that's the proper way to approach it.
21:18 Lewis Howes? Right.
21:19 Speaker 01 So that's difficult.
21:21 Lewis Howes? Let's frame it this way. Let's frame it, someone who always gets first.
21:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
21:25 Lewis Howes? And someone who always gets second or third, but just can't break into the first.
21:30 Speaker 01 It's because they don't believe in themselves.
21:32 Lewis Howes? That's what you think it is?
21:33 Speaker 01 I don't think, yeah.
21:34 Lewis Howes? Let's talk about the power of belief. Cause I've, I've done a, I did a show where I talked about the power of belief. And some of the greatest athletes in the world, I feel like have one of two things, in my opinion. They have a belief in either their faith in God, a higher sense of being. And they're so strongly believing in that. Nothing can break their faith in that.
21:55 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
21:56 Lewis Howes? That their faith is helping them achieve, you know, higher levels of athletic ability. Or the other side of the spectrum is you see athletes who are so confident and believe in themselves so much. They're so egotistical. They're like, I'm the greatest gifts in the world, right?
22:12 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
22:12 Lewis Howes? But they believe it. And they have so much certainty with that belief, either way, with God or themselves. You think that's true or no?
22:21 Speaker 01 I think if anybody has that strong of a belief, it gives them something to fall back on. It gives them reason.
22:29 Lewis Howes? Sure.
22:30 Speaker 01 I I've seen the the belief in self that can be destructive because.
22:38 Lewis Howes? You mean believing in yourself can be destructive?
22:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, definitely. I mean, if if you are that that person that says, I believe so strongly that I'm gonna win, and I believe so strongly, I've given my all, I've almost seen it as a cop out in some senses.
22:54 Lewis Howes? Right.
22:54 Speaker 01 Because if they believe so strongly and they've convinced themselves of that, then they're not opening themselves up to what other people are doing.
23:03 Lewis Howes? Uh huh.
23:03 Speaker 01 And the actual competition that's out there.
23:05 Lewis Howes? Right.
23:07 Speaker 01 I think when you have a belief in faith, you're open to what else is out there.
23:13 Lewis Howes? Sure. You have a strong belief in your faith, right?
23:15 Speaker 01 Yes. So I I don't know, it it makes it not about you.
23:19 Lewis Howes? It makes it takes pressure off you, right?
23:21 Speaker 01 Yes, in a sense.
23:23 Lewis Howes? Because it's not like, oh, it's all on me.
23:25 Speaker 01 No. I mean, I feel like the people who have that strong belief in themselves, they don't have any other greater reason.
23:31 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
23:32 Speaker 01 If you have a belief in faith, then you have, you know, a greater reason to work for it.
23:36 Lewis Howes? Sure, right. What a, you've been a competitor your whole life.
23:40 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
23:41 Lewis Howes? So what's your thoughts, or what's what's competition taught you about the human spirit in general? Whether it be yourself or just witnessing it, and other people, competitors, or teammates?
23:53 Speaker 01 I'm competitive in everything, everything I do.
23:56 Lewis Howes? I don't think you could tip a cow as good as I could.
24:00 Speaker 01 Probably not, but I'll try as hard. Um, I don't know, I think, you know, in human spirit, it's just like, having like a competitive spirit, basically, I think, just gives you a daily goal to be better.
24:12 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
24:13 Speaker 01 I mean, if you don't have any drive to compete against yourself or even others, then you don't have a direction to go towards.
24:20 Lewis Howes? Right.
24:21 Speaker 01 And like, you would get kind of just complacent.
24:25 Lewis Howes? That's true. That's true. Why do you think you never got complacent?
24:28 Speaker 01 Because I always want to be better. I always knew I was capable of doing better. I think, again, that's that belief side of it. I feel like. If you believe you can do more, then you're gonna push yourself to to prove you can.
24:43 Lewis Howes? But where did that drive come from? Like, how did you, why were you so motivated every single day? To train, to perform, to compete, to win? Where does that come from? Does it come from parents? Does it come from watching sports on TV? Does it come from friends?
24:59 Speaker 01 I'd say a lot of people are either born with it or not, maybe?
25:02 Lewis Howes? Think you're just born with it? That drive, that competitive spirit?
25:06 Speaker 01 I don't know, because I see people who don't have it. I'm like, I don't understand how you could not.
25:10 Lewis Howes? Right?
25:10 Speaker 01 Um, I also, yeah.
25:12 Lewis Howes? I hate to lose.
25:13 Speaker 01 So do I.
25:14 Lewis Howes? More than I like, I hate it more.
25:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. I don't know, because even when I started competing in gymnastics, I never won. I was, I was the girl at the, like, end of the floor that was getting that really hot pink colored ribbon that, yes, I never won.
25:29 Lewis Howes? Never won?
25:30 Speaker 01 No.
25:30 Lewis Howes? So when was the moment you started winning and realizing, I have an opportunity, potential to go to the Olympics?
25:36 Speaker 01 Well, I think that was the interesting part of, like, my career is I never focused on winning. Especially when I started out and I was in like thirty something place out of thirty nine people.
25:52 Speaker 01 It was never about winning. I just was always either frustrated because I made a mistake and I wanted to do better.
25:57 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
25:58 Speaker 01 But I could have cared less. I liked the hot pink colors.
26:01 Lewis Howes? You like flipping around and?
26:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think the only thing, I think the only thing that really started to make me want to work more and kind of get on top of the podium was the feeling of pride you had when you were successful. It had nothing to do with a medal. That was kind of just, you know, extra. It was just knowing you had done your best and you were being acknowledged for it. But that's something my coach taught us when growing up was medals and scores have nothing to do with it. It's the, the, the feeling of knowing you couldn't have given anymore.
26:38 Speaker 01 I was thankful for that one.
26:39 Lewis Howes? That's cool. What do you think was the most important lesson you learned from your coach?
26:43 Speaker 01 I'd say that.
26:44 Lewis Howes? That one?
26:44 Speaker 01 Um, that it's, he really drilled into me that it's, it's not about what others think. It's about knowing at the end of the day that you worked as hard as you possibly could. And, you know, even if a score is worth the very last place, you couldn't be any happier.
27:05 Lewis Howes? That's tough though, when there's so many people are telling you what they think and being critical and being detrimental and giving praises.
27:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:13 Lewis Howes? Put that aside and be like, it doesn't matter what half the world thinks of me right now.
27:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's, it's difficult, but yeah, it's, it's liberating. I mean, I remember in the Olympics, like going back to that, what he taught me and like really thinking about that. Cause I came in second multiple times and.
27:31 Lewis Howes? Like four or five times.
27:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. I was, I was on a, I was on a roll.
27:37 Lewis Howes? Silver's still pretty good.
27:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, right. But I remember just like the freeing feeling of knowing in myself that I couldn't have done anymore. But the reward being every time I finished, I would stand up and see 50,000 people in the arena on their feet. I mean, there's, there's no greater like satisfaction than knowing you've been like accepted pretty much.
28:00 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
28:00 Speaker 01 And just because that one judge on the floor doesn't give you that score, you've kind of won over the world.
28:07 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
28:07 Speaker 01 It's, I kind of found my, I don't know, my reward in that instead of in the medal.
28:13 Lewis Howes? And do you miss that feeling?
28:14 Speaker 01 I do.
28:15 Lewis Howes? Performing in front of 50, 100,000, millions of people watching.
28:18 Speaker 01 I really do. I miss, I miss the stage. I miss performing. I miss that daily goal of working up towards that.
28:26 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
28:26 Speaker 01 You know, I don't know. It's, it's a, makes you feel awesome.
28:31 Lewis Howes? It's amazing. It's the best feeling. What are you trying to do? Are you ever gonna try to compete again or anything?
28:36 Speaker 01 Um, I've, I would love to. I don't know what it would be.
28:40 Lewis Howes? CrossFit, Mary?
28:42 Speaker 01 I don't know. I don't think I can do that one. But I would love to.
28:47 Lewis Howes? Yeah. Have you thought about any other sports? You thought about going to Olympics or something else?
28:51 Speaker 01 I would love to.
28:52 Lewis Howes? Yeah. You haven't thought about any other sports though?
28:54 Speaker 01 I don't know what I'd be able to do. I don't know what. I'm not quite hand-eye coordinated.
29:01 Lewis Howes? Nothing with balls.
29:02 Speaker 01 Can flip on a four-inch beam.
29:03 Lewis Howes? What about the trampoline gymnastics?
29:06 Speaker 01 Oh, heck no.
29:08 Lewis Howes? No?
29:08 Speaker 01 That thing is terrifying. Have you ever been to trampoline?
29:11 Lewis Howes? Yes.
29:11 Speaker 01 I'm an Olympic gymnast and I hate the trampoline.
29:13 Lewis Howes? Really?
29:14 Speaker 01 I can do like one flip, but when you start doing like six or seven.
29:18 Lewis Howes? I'm worried about breaking my legs or something.
29:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, thank you.
29:21 Lewis Howes? Okay, so that's out.
29:22 Speaker 01 Diving, but.
29:23 Lewis Howes? There you go.
29:24 Speaker 01 Then you have to think about, we land on our feet, they land on their heads.
29:28 Lewis Howes? Oh, man.
29:29 Speaker 01 And I've turned everything around.
29:30 Lewis Howes? Well.
29:31 Speaker 01 That might be a little difficult.
29:32 Lewis Howes? I'm sure you'll figure it out if you want to. What's, uh, so there's a cool poem you wrote.
29:36 Speaker 01 Oh, gosh.
29:36 Lewis Howes? I saw on your book.
29:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:38 Lewis Howes? And there's a book, there's a poem you wrote in seventh grade.
29:42 Speaker 01 You prob- yeah.
29:44 Lewis Howes? That's what it said on the bucket. It says like, a caring girl.
29:48 Speaker 01 Oh, gosh.
29:49 Lewis Howes? Who loves.
29:49 Speaker 01 Are you gonna read this whole thing?
29:50 Lewis Howes? I'm just gonna read the last few sentences that you wrote.
29:52 Speaker 01 Okay.
29:53 Lewis Howes? And in the poem, you wrote, this is seventh grade. So you're twelve, twelve, I think, in this, and when you wrote this. In the poem you say, "I understand that nothing is easy. I say everything happens for a reason. I dream of one day the world is in peace. I try to see the good in everything. I'm a caring girl who loves to flip." So has anything changed since seventh grade?
30:16 Speaker 01 No, it's pretty spot on.
30:17 Lewis Howes? It's pretty spot on.
30:18 Speaker 01 Um, I don't tend to flip too much anymore.
30:22 Lewis Howes? Not all?
30:23 Speaker 01 Every once in a while.
30:24 Lewis Howes? Every once in a while, you just do like a.
30:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, just flip backwards, right? I tend to run on like anything that looks like a beam.
30:31 Lewis Howes? Run on it?
30:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, like if I'm going for a run, like there's a curb, why not run on it?
30:35 Lewis Howes? On that curb?
30:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:36 Lewis Howes? That's interesting. Okay, now, I ask this question a lot, and I'm curious if you are more afraid of failure or success?
30:49 Speaker 01 I'm terrified of failure.
30:52 Lewis Howes? Really?
30:52 Speaker 01 Yes.
30:53 Lewis Howes? No, why?
30:54 Speaker 01 I don't know. I personally don't think that's abnormal for any elite athlete or elite mindset. Because you're no, you know, you're capable of success, but you've been taught that anything but perfection isn't okay. I know, you know, perfection is kind of like a drug. It's addicting. And knowing that you were only rewarded in your career, you know, in any Olympic career. You're really only rewarded if you are perfect.
31:23 Lewis Howes? If you win.
31:23 Speaker 01 That if you lose, that's not acceptable. So.
31:27 Lewis Howes? Not remembered.
31:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:29 Lewis Howes? Right?
31:29 Speaker 01 And add on top of that, I'm a people pleaser. I, I love to make people happy and I want to make myself happy and proud. The idea of not succeeding or living up to someone's expectations scares me.
31:43 Lewis Howes? Hurts you, right? Hurts inside, scary.
31:46 Speaker 01 As soon as it happens, I'm like, I want to do it again. I want to fix it.
31:49 Lewis Howes? Right, right.
31:49 Speaker 01 And I don't know, I think there's something about that as well, though, that's not quite right. I think people should be allowed to
32:01 Speaker 01 fail.
32:02 Lewis Howes? Well, I think failure is necessary in order to succeed.
32:05 Speaker 01 Definitely. But being scared of it can be a good thing because it motivates you, but it's also normal.
32:14 Lewis Howes? You don't want to control you, though.
32:15 Speaker 01 No, not at all.
32:17 Lewis Howes? Hold you back and like cripple you.
32:19 Speaker 01 No, I don't think it holds me back, but it definitely.
32:22 Lewis Howes? Makes you think, second guess everything or?
32:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:24 Lewis Howes? A little bit?
32:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
32:26 Lewis Howes? So what, uh, what's the, what's the future for you now? So you're 21. You, you're sponsored, you got sponsored by Nike and a couple of other cool sponsors. What are you thinking is the next chapter for you, the next few years?
32:39 Speaker 01 I feel like I'm just now finishing my gymnastics career. I mean, getting out of all of that and dancing with the stars, of course.
32:45 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
32:46 Speaker 01 And. Finally at a point where I have to choose a path, you know, a lifestyle. Cause gymnastics is no longer involved. And I don't know, I work a lot with kids, which is my favorite thing to do. And of course, health and fitness, but it's pretty much as specific as it gets.
33:08 Lewis Howes? Right, right. So you're open to new opportunities.
33:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, I try anything. I, I love when people approach me with things that I would never would have thought of because it challenges me to step out of my comfort zone.
33:19 Lewis Howes? Yeah, yeah. You like to tackle challenges.
33:21 Speaker 01 I really do. I really do.
33:23 Lewis Howes? Of course. But tell me about Dancing with the Stars. What was that like?
33:26 Speaker 01 Uh, fun.
33:27 Lewis Howes? And you won in two, what was the eighth season or ninth?
33:29 Speaker 01 Two thousand nine, season eight.
33:31 Lewis Howes? You won it all, right?
33:32 Speaker 01 I did.
33:32 Lewis Howes? Congratulations.
33:33 Speaker 01 Thank you.
33:34 Lewis Howes? Was it an amazing experience?
33:35 Speaker 01 It was. It was probably one of the best things I've ever done.
33:39 Lewis Howes? Next to the Olympics, you're like performing, you're competing, you're...
33:42 Speaker 01 But it was the first time I did something outside of gymnastics. So it was the first time I proved to myself that I could be more than a gymnast, which was a big deal for me.
33:53 Lewis Howes? Big step.
33:54 Speaker 01 Cause I didn't think I could be anything but a gymnast.
33:56 Lewis Howes? Right.
33:57 Speaker 01 And going back the second time was even better. It was...
34:00 Lewis Howes? Well, you went twice?
34:01 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
34:02 Lewis Howes? Oh, it was like the All-Stars? Is that what it was? So what was it? So it was a whole season?
34:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:07 Lewis Howes? And you, you didn't win that, did you?
34:08 Speaker 01 Came in second.
34:09 Lewis Howes? Second.
34:09 Speaker 01 Of course.
34:11 Lewis Howes? Who won that one?
34:12 Speaker 01 Uh, Melissa Ryecraft.
34:13 Lewis Howes? Okay.
34:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:15 Lewis Howes? Which was a better experience, first one or second one?
34:17 Speaker 01 Um, I'd say the second one. I absolutely loved the first one. Don't want to take anything away from that or my partner, because it's a different partner.
34:23 Lewis Howes? Sure.
34:23 Speaker 01 Um, but the second time I was...
34:26 Lewis Howes? You won the first one.
34:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:28 Lewis Howes? It's gotta feel good.
34:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I'd say the first one, I let myself go more. Or the second one.
34:32 Lewis Howes? You did so well.
34:33 Speaker 01 I, I...
34:34 Lewis Howes? Relaxed.
34:34 Speaker 01 Yeah. I allowed myself to try new things.
34:38 Lewis Howes? Enjoyed.
34:38 Speaker 01 Whereas the first one, I was really reserved and it was also sixteen, so.
34:42 Lewis Howes? Right.
34:43 Speaker 01 And I was in the company of like thirty, you know, everybody was, I couldn't relate to anybody.
34:48 Lewis Howes? No way.
34:49 Speaker 01 Whereas the second time, I, I got along with people a lot better and I could actually have a voice in stand-up and have an opinion.
34:56 Lewis Howes? Right.
34:56 Speaker 01 But it was just, it was a better experience.
34:59 Lewis Howes? That's crazy. Okay, so final question. And that's what I ask all my guests.
35:04 Speaker 01 Okay.
35:05 Lewis Howes? So what's your definition of greatness then?
35:08 Speaker 01 Definition of greatness can be a lot of things.
35:12 Lewis Howes? Everyone's got their own thoughts.
35:16 Speaker 01 Self greatness or just greatness?
35:18 Lewis Howes? Just greatness in general, what's it mean to you, what's it mean to achieve greatness to you?
35:25 Speaker 01 I would say
35:26 Lewis Howes? It's mean like winning at everything, does it mean, you know?
35:29 Speaker 01 No, I'd say it means having pride in yourself and knowing you couldn't have done anything more.
35:34 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
35:35 Speaker 01 I don't know, I think that's a huge kind of issue society has is as long as if you're not holding a gold medal or at the top of anything, then you haven't achieved greatness. But if you're happy with yourself and you're proud and you've worked for something, I think that's greatness in itself.
35:54 Lewis Howes? Yeah, that's cool. What's your message to young girls then?
35:58 Speaker 01 That you can do and be anything you want to be and there is no limitation.
36:04 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
36:05 Speaker 01 And that it's okay to be different.
36:07 Lewis Howes? Really?
36:08 Speaker 01 Society makes a mold and girls think they have to live by it.
36:13 Lewis Howes? Did you feel like you were molded?
36:15 Speaker 01 Um.
36:16 Lewis Howes? Society was trying to mold you.
36:17 Speaker 01 I think, I think people, I think of course, society tried, but
36:21 Lewis Howes? They can't hold you back.
36:22 Speaker 01 No, I luckily was surrounded by a family that wanted me to be different. They wanted me to be me and no one else, so.
36:30 Lewis Howes? Awesome, awesome. Well, where can we find you online? What's the best place? Twitter?
36:34 Speaker 01 How about Twitter?
36:35 Lewis Howes? Twitter?
36:35 Speaker 01 We're working on, yes.
36:37 Lewis Howes? We're working on your website, we're gonna get it updated soon, but
36:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:40 Lewis Howes? At Sean Johnson on Twitter.
36:41 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:42 Lewis Howes? You're on Instagram all the time too, I've been following you there.
36:44 Speaker 01 Sean Johnson as well.
36:45 Lewis Howes? Sean Johnson, a Facebook fan page or what?
36:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:48 Lewis Howes? Sean Johnson?
36:49 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:49 Lewis Howes? Sean Johnson everywhere.
36:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:51 Lewis Howes? Thanks so much.
36:52 Speaker 01 Thank you.
36:53 Lewis Howes? For sharing your thoughts and make sure to check her out. Go check out her book also. And appreciate you Sean.
36:59 Speaker 01 Thank you.
37:06 Lewis Howes? And there you have it. Big shout out and thank you to the lovely Talented Shawn Johnson. Make sure to follow her on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook. It's all @shawnjohnson. Go check out her book. She's got some amazing things she's working on. She's got some amazing sponsorship deals, partnering with a lot of different companies. Make sure to follow her every single move because she is a sweetheart and she's always putting out inspiring messages to the world. So I hope you guys enjoyed this as much as I did and you're gonna see some big things from Shawn in the near future. With that,
37:45 Lewis Howes? guys, thank you so much for coming on the show this week. We've got some huge episodes coming up in the next few weeks. I'm talking big, big, big. So make sure to check those out. And also, if you enjoyed this episode, go over to iTunes and just subscribe to the podcast. That way you get notified each and every week of a new episode. So go ahead and subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review on iTunes. We'd love to hear your feedback. And let me know where you're listening to this in the world. Go ahead and post a picture on Instagram and tag me @lewishowes on there and hashtag #schoolofgreatness so I can see where you're at in the world, where you're listening to it. And I appreciate all the
38:29 Lewis Howes? mentions out there. With that, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode and make sure to do something great.
Previous 21 The James Altucher Take Over: How I Live My Dreams Next 23 How to Get Unstuck and Turn Average into Awesome with Jon Acuff Page updated September 29, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
