149 AJ Hawk on Family, Hard Work, and the Heart of a Champion

"Whatever morals and standards I have in life, I want to take to the field." - AJ Hawk If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at www.lewishowes.com/149. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 149 with NFL linebacker A.J. Hawk. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  What is up everyone? Thank you so much for joining me today on the School of Greatness Podcast. My name is Lewis Howes, and I'm very excited about today's guest. His name is Mr. A.J. Hawk. Now, A.J. and I met through Aubrey Marcus, who's been on the show and who's the sponsor here. And it's pretty cool how we got reconnected this way. And A.J. actually reached out to Aubrey and said, hey, I'd like to have Lewis on my podcast, on A.J. Hawk's podcast that he's got, which I'll link up here in the show notes. And I was recently on there, had a great time. But I said, listen, man, I would love to have you on my show. You were actually, you know, someone I looked up to when I was playing college football. He was like the god at Ohio State at the time and was just dominating,

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  an All-American, top linebacker in the country, first-round draft pick. And he's just been really inspiring to watch his career over the last nine, 10 years. So I said, we gotta bring you on. And I want to talk to you about what it's been like growing up, your mindsets, how you trained as a kid, how you got into Ohio State, the journey in the NFL, and now the transition to what's next. So I'm excited to bring him on. And without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only Mr. A.J. Hawk.

• 1:50Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We have a legend on today. His name is Mr. A.J. Hawk. What's up, A.J.?

• 1:59Speaker 01

  What's up, Louis? Good to be here. I love that your energy and your intro, man. It makes me just, yeah, gosh, I can't match your, your energy and passion, but I love it. Big fan of yours.

• 2:10Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, man. I'm a, you know, I'm honestly really grateful and blessed to be having this conversation with you right now for a couple of reasons. And I actually just got off your podcast, The Hot Cast, which I'm going to have it linked up here below on the show notes. I'll put the link to the video for that one and to your website. But I'm actually really honored to be talking with you and it's a, it's a true privilege and pleasure of mine to be able to interview you because, you know, 10, 12 years ago, you were someone that I really looked up to and we were graduating the same time in college and I remember watching your games. I would watch highlights from Ohio State football because I was playing at a

• 2:51Lewis Howes?

  capital just, you know, a couple of miles away from you. And I would go to games on our bye weeks and I would watch on TV at your night games when I was playing during the day. And I was so inspired by who you were and your way of being and like your passion and your energy that you brought to the field. I was like, man, this guy's incredible. And it's been fun to watch you now, I think nine or 10 years in the NFL. Fifth round, fifth pick, I believe overall in the first round of the draft in 2005, I think that was. And we, uh, you know, this is actually our first time talking, but we met 10 years ago.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  We did. Pro day, Louis. Pro day. You just snagging balls left and right out of the air. Probably, uh, well, Troy, did Troy Smith throw to you? He wasn't done yet. He redshirted. He was in my class, but he probably threw to the guys.

• 3:38Lewis Howes?

  Who was it? It was another guy, uh, who was the backup, the white?

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Was it Zwick?

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  It was Zwick? Okay.

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  Zwick was throwing and it was me, Santario Holmes, and then the tight end at the time. I forget his name.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Was it, it might, it was probably Hamby, Ryan Hamby.

• 3:53Lewis Howes?

  Yep, that was him. It was us three running routes. Here's what I remember of you. I remember walking into that, uh, I don't remember what that place is called, but

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Woody Hayes Athletic.

• 4:03Lewis Howes?

  Woody Hayes, yeah, the indoor facility. It's like this incredible, I don't know, $50 million facility or something crazy probably. But a huge, you know, full football field in there. I was so intimidated walking in this place because it was like first off, you dream of being there as a kid and then there's like 10 head coaches in the NFL and like 300 scouts or something on the sidelines and the whole Ohio State football team and all you guys are there. There's like five first round picks that year, I think from Ohio State and then it was me and like a couple other D2 guys or something and I was so out of place, so intimidated and it was just so inspiring to watch how you guys did everything and it was crazy.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Well, I, I think it was kind of, it's intimidating for everybody, not just you. Obviously you being, being an outsider coming into that. Yeah, that had to be really weird. That had to be really tough because I remember just how awkward it was like getting, getting ready in the locker room and you come out just to like, you know, go through some drills and run a 40 and do little drills and bench press. Yeah. And it's like you walk out and there's just all these older dudes standing there.

• 5:09Lewis Howes?

  Stopwatch.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And just judging you and you're thinking like at the time, all right, if I drop one ball, I'm done. They're gonna, I'm, I'm never gonna play football again. They'll never take me and things like that. So it was, it was a weird experience for everybody.

• 5:20Lewis Howes?

  Did you really feel that though? I mean, you were, I think two time All-American in college and you were the best linebacker that year in college. Did you feel like any doubts? Like if I mess this up, I'm not going to get drafted?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  I don't, I didn't have like doubts about myself or any kind of like thing like that, but I definitely, I, I think it was a good thing. I think back now, it was a good thing that I was so young and stupid and didn't even have like the, I didn't have, yeah, like I didn't have the, the brain to really think about consequences or think about what was coming in the future. I was like, yeah, I want to go, hopefully I run fast today. And I, I looked at it more just like as a, a competition like, all right, let's, let's do it, man. I'm excited to get out there and catch every ball. But I, I don't think I thought like, oh, if I drop a ball, I'm gonna not, not get drafted. But I definitely thought like every single little thing is being nitpicked here. I knew all these, these old coaches in there. We're going to be sitting there kind of nitpicking, going over every single little thing that we do.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  And not only that, what we did and as far as the drills and our time, but I, I know they were watching us to see how we kind of interact with the other players, how you interact, coaches and what you do. When I look back now, I, I see, I think more of that, but at the time I wasn't really thinking too much of that. But I, I was like, well, I'll just, I'll go out there, whatever, be myself and see what happens. Hopefully run a fast 40.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  What did you run that day?

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Well, people get like mad because Ohio State's supposedly had like, they're like, oh, you guys run it downhill 38 and a half yards. People always say that because we'd run fast. I mean, that's the other weird thing at pro days, you would, you never would get like one official time because every coach thinks that they're the guru of the stopwatch and they all have their time. So I had anywhere from like a, a mid four, four to like a, a four, six, basically that day.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  I remember, ah, man, I was, I went to Houston, Texas and trained for like two months prior to that at a specific facility with like a lot of NFL's prospects and did the whole training thing. And I remember like being, I, I got my bench up to like 15 reps of 225 for me, which was pretty good because before I can only do like seven, uh, two months prior. And I like got so lean and fast. I was just like a training machine for two months, doing everything to prepare for that one moment. And I remember having everything ready to go. When I got there and I was like, okay, cool. I got my cleats. I got the shoes to jump with and everything. And I'm ready to go for the 40 and they're like, oh, we're going to do it over on this Astro turf.

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  And I was, and all you guys had fricking spikes on, like track spikes. And I was like, no, I was so sad because I knew my 40, my weakest thing. I had like these slippery tennis shoes that I had to run on.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  You should have asked one of us, man. We would go, you wear some of the little, our little track shoe things we had bought. Cause I think a couple of other guys had, had, uh, their shoes either like ripped or something happened and we, we would let guys borrow. Man, you should have asked me.

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I was so intimidated. I was like, just trying to like not get in the way of anyone, you know? Dang it. I wish I would have asked now 10 years ago.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  You'd still be playing.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  I maybe I'd be playing. Maybe I would have been doing this podcast with you right now.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I should have, I should have looked out. I should have saw, saw a brother in need.

• 8:32Lewis Howes?

  Thanks for looking out, bro.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  I'm sorry about that.

• 8:34Lewis Howes?

  And I think I ran like a four, seven, something like, and it was just, I couldn't get that first step. I had no grip. And I remember just being like, I blew it. Um, and but it came down. Then I got to the last moment where I got to run the routes. It was me and San Antonio. And we talked about this before, but San Antonio was like falling and dropping balls and I was catching everything. And looking clean and I will never forget the Giants assistant coach. I don't know his name. He came up to me afterwards. He goes, I don't know who you are, where you came from, but you looked a hell of a lot better than San Antonio out here today, and I hope you get picked up. And I was like, for me, that was like, oh my God, from coming from a D3 school, I was like, wow.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  That had to feel, that had to feel pretty good, didn't it?

• 9:12Lewis Howes?

  It was like, it was like, it just confirmed like, even if I don't play in the NFL, like I knew I could play with these guys. Like, maybe they're better than me, but I could, I could be in a game and be effective. You know, I'm not the fastest, biggest, but it was like, all right, I got here. I made it to the Ohio State pro day. It was fun experience.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  But you're an athlete and you played, you're a football player, man. That's, that trumps, that trumps everything when you get on the field.

• 9:32Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And I knew I was not good at the 40 speed, but it's like, throw a ball from the air with three guys on me and I'm going to catch it. You know, that was it. So it's all good. I'm, I'm very grateful for where I'm at now and, and it was, it's been incredible to watch your career. And what I'm curious about, since we talked about the pro day, what's the biggest thing you learned about yourself from that moment? I'm always curious about what people learn about themselves from big moments. And that you could argue was a deciding, big moment test to determine where you would end up. Some might, some might say. And what did you learn about yourself through that process?

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Well, it definitely was like a, a learning moment. I've never really thought like that. That's why you're great at this, man. That's why you have, that's why so many people listen because you, you come up, you know, those, those are questions that you ask guys. And I would say, looking back now, I learned that like when, when the pressure was on and, and you should have nerves and anxiety and all this stuff. That I could, I, I think that was just one, a big step, like a big notch in my own brain that I could, I can handle this, you know? Cause going into it, you, I probably two weeks before that, I was at the combine. And there's a big, there's a big like, they make a big stink out of if you're gonna, if you're gonna run your 40 at the combine. Like are you gonna run here? Are you gonna wait for your pro day?

• 10:54Speaker 01

  And I, like I said, I'm glad that I was dumb. And I was like, I'm running both. What do you mean? Why wouldn't I run at both places? And so I ran to the combine. I wasn't very happy with my, my time. And so I was like, of course I'm running my 40 again at Ohio State. But we did like 10 minutes of individual drills that day.

• 11:14Lewis Howes?

  I remember that. You and Bobby, you and Bobby Carpenter, right?

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And Anthony Schlegel. So just us three and a linebacker coach. I think he was from the Bengals at the time. It's just putting us through the paces.

• 11:24Lewis Howes?

  You guys were sweating.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Boom, boom, boom. Oh, yeah. It's 10 minutes straight. And the whole thing, the whole time I was like, all right, I can do anything for 10 minutes. And so we're just all balls to the walls, you know, thinking that every single step we take is gonna be a, you know, we're gonna slide in the draft or whatever. And I realized when it was all done, it felt so good. I remember we went out, maybe then that weekend. Um, my brother-in-law, Brady Quinn, came in. He was still at Notre Dame playing football there and him and his buddies came in town for something and we all went out together and it just like kinda, it just felt good to have that over with and thinking, all right, well, this garbage is out of the way. Now I can play football again, hopefully with whoever gives me a chance and whoever drafts me. So it was almost like, you know, hopefully there's no moment too big. Hopefully there's no, uh,

• 12:07Speaker 01

  any kind of pressure, I think, that, that especially athletes have you put on yourself. And that's, um, my wife and I joke about it. She's like the most competitive person on the planet. She'll, I, I tell people, she's in a pickup soccer game. She's getting in fights with girls and stuff and you better, I said, you better, you better kill her because she's gonna come back and get you in your sleep. She's not, when she wakes up from her coma, she's coming after you. And I joke with her about that. And that's kinda, I, I hope the, uh, I worry about myself just that I'm not gonna quit. I'm not gonna ever give in to any pressure. And it's sometimes it's easy to, to not give it a hundred percent. I've learned that throughout being in the NFL that in your mind, you can like rationalize thinking, well, I didn't, I wasn't trying anyway, you know, they cut me,

• 12:49Speaker 01

  but I wasn't really trying, you know, like I don't ever wanna be that guy. And I've seen it happen with people when they know something bad might happen. So they don't give it their all and they don't try a hundred percent. And then you can like rationalize it for the rest of your life when you go into something with that.

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think they do that? Is it because they're afraid that they're gonna fail giving a hundred percent?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Exactly. I think it's like a

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Coping mechanism, it's like a protection thing over themselves because I've had little like glimpses here and there of thinking, wow, that's stupid. Anyway, I don't care. I don't want to, I don't like pool anyway. Like if I get beat by my brother in a pool, game of pool, um, I've had things like that. Not luckily, not with football. I've always felt like I need to give it everything I got because I wasn't born a freak like most of the guys I play with. So I have to work for it. And, um, but yeah, I think it's something when I've seen the couple of guys that that fall victim to that, when they don't give it everything because they might have a like an inkling that they might not make the team or they might not be around next year. They might not make the play or, you know, might not get off the bench. They, it's almost like they have this, sometimes they can fall

• 13:55Speaker 01

  into a trap of having like this attitude like, ah, whatever, man, it's, it's whatever. I'll figure it out after this. And so when, if they get cut or it doesn't work out, you can tell your buddies and tell your friends, oh, it's fine. I don't even like those guys.

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  Right. Interesting. One, when was the moment you decided that you were going to be in the NFL? Like, how old were you when you were like, you know what, this is what I want to do?

• 14:17Speaker 01

  I think from a young age, man, I mean, hmm, you know, probably first grade or before first grade.

• 14:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow, really?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Whatever that is, like six, seven, eight years old. Um, I played football, baseball, and basketball my whole life and basketball was my sport, to be honest. People don't believe me now that didn't see me play. They just see me as just a, you know, meathead football guy, but I was point guard my whole life.

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Grew up playing all that AAU basketball, travel and all that. But it's pretty tough to get a scholarship in basketball.

• 14:46Lewis Howes?

  It is, man.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  You got to score 100 points and be seven feet tall, basically.

• 14:49Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  And so I, I wasn't doing that. So I knew football was my path, but I knew football was going to be my path, probably my freshman year in high school, maybe. Um, but I definitely didn't ever think of, I didn't ever think of playing the NFL as a reality. I thought of it as like, nah, I was, again, it was, it's almost like a, it's a good thing. I, looking back now that I wasn't thinking that far ahead. I was just, I honestly was just there. Like I just went to school, found a way to get through school, graduate and find a way to get to practice. And I had so much respect for my coaches and everything about like the whole program in my high school and then college and the pros that I, I was just, I'm just kind of there. I feel like.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  I never, I never had like the thing where, like I never went to college to go, you hear a lot of guys talking like, wow, you know, if you go to Ohio State or Alabama, you know, your best chance of going to the league, you know, go play in the NFL. I don't have, I never had that going in, but I, to play in the NFL, I honestly didn't think of it as a reality until probably like after my junior year of college, I think.

• 15:47Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 15:48Speaker 01

  I mean, I wanted to. No, it was always like a fantasy, you know, it's always like, oh, that'd be cool, man, but I would like, when I was a kid, I would see guys, I would see like every once in a while, you'd run into someone and you'd see like an old guy sitting there and someone would tell you, oh, hey, that guy played, uh, that guy played it for the practice squad for the Browns for a year. And it was like, this dude was Jesus to us. We just.

• 16:10Lewis Howes?

  I remember this dude. We stare and watch his every move.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. We just stare at him sitting there drinking his Budweiser, probably smoking a cigarette. And so it was never like a thing that was actually there for me, you know, like it wasn't like, ah, yeah, of course I'm gonna go get drafted and play in the NFL. That was a, like a fantasy, you know, and I think it, uh, that helped me. I think I'm, I'm glad now looking back because it's so different now, just with like recruiting and everything where people are gonna go, they're gonna pick their college off of who's gonna get them, give them the best chance to go to the NFL instead of picking a college because you love it and you want to be a part of a team and you want to win a national championship. And I've always kind of had the weird

• 16:49Speaker 01

  team mentality, uh, in my brain. I'm the youngest of three boys. I've been, I got beat up my whole life, man. So I just, uh, they've, if I ever thought I was cool, don't worry, they, they kill me.

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  That's good. They keep you grounded. Um, you know, when I was growing up, there were really two, I would say logos slash jerseys that I wanted to wear growing up, uh, when I was older. And that was Ohio State jersey and a USA jersey. I wanted to represent my country, go to the Olympics and be an Olympian, but I also wanted to play football at Ohio State. And, um, I've been super blessed and fortunate. After I got injured playing football, I said, listen, I'm still gonna chase my dreams. And I, I picked up a new sport called team handball, which is an Olympic sport. And I've been fortunate enough to represent my country and play a sport all around the world with USA jersey on and, you know,

• 17:46Lewis Howes?

  sing the national anthem before international competition. I haven't played in the Olympics yet, but I've worn that jersey with the USA. I'm curious to know what the feeling was like for you the first time you put on Ohio State jersey.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Oh, it was, uh, it was nuts. I, um, I was just freshly 18 years old. Got there, um, I went up the summer right after I graduated high school and I would go to like the summer workouts in June and July with the team. So I'm seeing these guys, Mike Doss, Donnie, Nikki, Matt Wohl, Craig Krenzel, all these dudes. And they're all, they're all huge celebrities to me. They're all like, you know, it's like.

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  I watched Sports Illustrated and stuff and ESPN, right?

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I watched these guys like I watched Tom Cruise on the TV.

• 18:29Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  So to see them and then I'm like, oh man, I'm like wearing the same workout gear as them. I'm out here doing drills with them. So all, all you're ever looking for is like a tiny little thing of, hey, good job, man, or whatever, you know, they don't know your name. They don't know anything. I remember I got asked multiple times, we had a lot of, we had a stud recruiting class my freshman year. We brought in four linebackers and so I was definitely the, the fourth on the list coming in. And I remember I got asked by multiple current players on the team at the time, like, what, uh, what are you doing here? You're not on scholarship, are you? Like they would ask me why I was in the main part. Yeah, like I'm in the main part of the locker room. Like, well, you, are you on, you got a full ride? I'm like, uh, yeah, yeah. I think so. I'm pretty sure. So I saw that early, but then that first game at home, yeah, are you kidding me?

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Just get dressed like in the locker room. So walking out of the tunnel, it felt, um, definitely was, uh, you know, the definition of like a surreal moment. Thinking, uh, all these people and you hear about it, you know, over a hundred thousand people going crazy cheering for you. Like I said, the guys that were next to me were all huge celebrities to me. Those were the guys that I, I never thought I'd be there. I, I couldn't believe it. Uh, and even though I just got done going through a training camp with them and battling through the summer heat off for a month. But that first game was something, uh, it was just so weird, like just, just unbelievable. They, uh, I got, it was against Texas Tech. I was playing special teams and then backing up C. Grant, unbelievable linebacker and a great guy too.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Great, great dude. Still, still see him, uh, every once in a while. He's a really good dude. From day one, he was so cool to me. So I give a lot of, uh, Expect for him, but we started, we were killing him and they put us in, put some of us freshmen at the end. And Cliff Kingsbury was the quarterback for Texas Tech. And he was rolling out on our sideline and it was going to like throw a ball and he threw a ball away. Uh, he threw it just out of bounds way down the field and I just killed him with a forearm right in his chin. Like I, there's a, I have a picture. I think my dad has it somewhere where I was like fully launched into him in my right. Arm elbow. I'm actually doing the move right now. You can't see me. He was up like aiming for his throat, like going right after him. I would have definitely been fined now.

• 20:39Lewis Howes?

  Ruthless.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  In the NFL, they'd find you. They'd probably flagged me now in college, but they didn't have those rules. That was 2002. So it was, uh, that felt so good to get that first big hit out of the way, you know, in the shoe.

• 20:49Lewis Howes?

  When it didn't matter.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  And it was a quarterback falling out of bounds. So it's not like I, it's not like I feel tough about it. It just felt, anytime you hit somebody, it feels good.

• 20:57Lewis Howes?

  It does, man. That's hilarious. Wow. When was the moment at Ohio State where you made a play? That was so big and you realized that you were such an integral part of the team. Like maybe you've been making a bunch of plays and there was like this one moment where you're like, whoa, okay. I've secured my starting spot. I'm now one of the leaders on the team. I now feel confident in my abilities and I'm ready to take it to the next level.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Whoo. Another good one. Man. I like these questions. You're making me think back on things that I've never really given a whole lot of thought. Um. I don't know if there's exactly one play or one moment. Um, going into my sophomore year in training camp, like. I was, you know, pretty much pegged to be, you know, one of the starting linebackers of, of the three. But, um, I mean, I think even before that, I kind of had moments where I knew like, okay, I can do this, you know, I belong and I feel good. We played. That freshman year I had, I mean, you talk about stepping into the right place at the right time. We went 14-0 and won the national championship.

• 22:01Lewis Howes?

  I remember this. Maurice Claret, man.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Exactly. Me and Maurice, we're in the same class. We came in together. So it's like, what a, uh, what an unbelievable experience, man. And I remember on the field after the game, like, yeah, let's do this every year. Like talking to all the guys. Why not?

• 22:15Lewis Howes?

  It's no big deal. Yeah.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Come back next year. So, but during that year, um, we played at Wisconsin. And C got hurt, rolled his ankle pretty bad, and I played the whole second half. I think we won the game like 14 to 9 or one of those, you know, just bruiser games and their O line was just monster, just coming out trying to maul me and I'm all skinny and young, trying to play with these grown men. But I got in there and got to make like a decent amount of tackles and got to chase the ball carrier down a few times and take on the center and, you know, headbutt multiple, multiple of these big linemen that to me were like old grizzly vet, you know, men and I felt like a little boy. And I kind of could tell after getting some good shots in on guys, I'm like, all right, this is it. I'm, I'm cool. You know, I felt good about it and then,

• 22:58Speaker 01

  got to start, I think the next game we played Penn State. I usually don't remember games like I, I'm remembering this, but my freshman year is pretty vivid for me and I got to start the game. I got like a tipped interception, you know, one of those cheap ones and it felt good. That was at home and it felt great and we won that game. By a narrow margin and kept on rolling and C came back in the lineup and I just played sparingly throughout the rest of the year, but I, I think I kind of had a couple of moments in my freshman year of it. Not to say that I was like a leader or anything then or anything. Yeah, I was confident.

• 23:30Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Man, there's so much I could talk about of Ohio State stuff because I'm just a fan and curious about it in general, but uh, what was the best Michigan moment?

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Oh, there's a lot of them. Uh, so I'm three and one against Michigan. Uh, should have got that. We lost my sophomore year. They had a, they had a really good team. Um, my senior year, we went there to Michigan. It was uh, Troy Smith was, had stepped in and been playing quarterback for most of the year for us. And we were down, had a crazy unbelievable comeback and beat them, you know, in their house. Uh, senior year and it kind of locked us into a BCS bowl and that's where we went and played in the Fiesta Bowl after that, but being on their field after the game just felt great, you know, we uh, There's like an iconic throw and catch from Troy Smith to Anthony Gonzalez and he caught it like on their five yard line and then we ran the ball in and you know rest is history.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  We won. There wasn't like one specific play or anything from the game, but just the whole feeling afterwards. My, my good buddy Bobby Carpenter got hurt in that game. The first play, James Larnite steps in as a freshman and, and played really well. So, and then just the locker room after that game was awesome. Eddie George was in the locker room and it was just like Eddie was so pumped, like just so excited. I'm like, why this is awesome. Why is Eddie here? Why is he so excited? And he was just, he's such a, you know, it's true for Ohio State people. Eddie was just loving it, man. And uh, just that whole feeling. I don't know if that ever even wore off. We kind of took that through our whole bowl practice and the next month and a half and went and won the Fiesta Bowl after that.

• 25:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's awesome. What are some of the rituals that you used in, and you knew this was coming because we talked about this on your episode, but what were some of the rituals that you applied to your training, both physically and mentally in high school and then to college and then now into the pros? And each, uh, you know, season, let's say that high school is a season, college is a season, pro is a season. Which ones, talk about the different rituals in training physically and mentally, but also which ones have you kept along through the last 20 years and which, uh, and the other things, what's have you picked up?

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Well, I, I'm, I've never been a big like, uh, superstitious guy. A lot of people are in sports. They're very superstitious, especially like a sport like baseball. Those guys, these guys have everything they gotta do before they, before every single pitch comes to them. You know, the batters are undoing their gloves and hitting their, they got 500 routines. I don't really have any specific like superstitions where I have to do. A lot of players have things where they gotta wear a certain like undershirt. They gotta tape their wrists certain ways. I, I, I don't have any of that. Um, I would say one of the things when I was younger, like middle school, high school, I started, you know, it's Ohio, man. I started lifting weights in like sixth grade, sixth grade, I think.

• 26:17Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  I guess I had two older brothers and they were both, they played varsity football and I wanted to be them. So I would just, I'd wake up before school and go down our scrubby little weight room in our basement and do lap pull downs, you know? So it was just one of those things. Uh,

• 26:29Lewis Howes?

  Before school you would lift?

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, you know, like I thought, you know, I don't know, I was such a, like I talk about all the time, such a meathead. It's not like I'm not now, I still claim, I understand, I'm not, not big like a lot of these meathead guys are, West Side Barbell here in Columbus.

• 26:45Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, man, yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, but um, like rituals and stuff.

• 26:50Lewis Howes?

  So like every morning, did you have a, a ritual where you're like, I have to eat a certain way? Or I'm gonna work, you know, did you run every morning? Did you lift every morning? After practice, were you watching game film? Was there like something you were doing differently that other people weren't doing to help you get to where you are?

• 27:07Speaker 01

  I think, starting at a young age, when I was really young, um, and then when I really amplified it was when I got in high school, was like that, that morning stuff. For some reason, I was big into the whole, I, I needed to get my workout in early and I felt, it just something about it, like felt good in my brain that, you know, I, school, I gotta get on the bus at seven thirty for school, you know, I'm gonna be up at five forty, I'm gonna be down in the weight room and my dad, my dad will come moseying down with this cup of coffee in our golden retriever, you know, when I'm thirty minutes in and super sweaty and doing leg press and stuff down there. So I, that was like honestly my only ritual type thing that I felt like I had to do. And it was that little thing where you're young and you feel, uh, really guilty if you would

• 27:48Speaker 01

  miss one for some reason. So like, I remember just sometimes, like, I don't care, it's gonna happen regardless, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it down there, I'm gonna lift. I'd be like, you know, it's every once in a while you get the flu or you're super sick and I'm just like, find a way to get down there. Yeah, I'm not doing any, like I think I'm lifting, I'm just probably hurting, you know, definitely hurting myself. But I think that's like my foundation because I watched my older brothers do that. And so I just wanted to be like them. And that's kind of something I've always felt like I need to.

• 28:16Lewis Howes?

  Do you still lift in the mornings?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Uh, it depends. I mean, most times, it depends on like with the teams. When, when, when we're working out as a team, it depends. I always lifted the earliest group we have and I always did that through college. But now, um, like off season time when I work out, it depends. I don't, I don't, it's not as much a morning thing because I have two kids and I don't really, it's good for, I feel like it actually helps me to wake up and get them all situated. And help my wife and do all that. And it's fun to drop them off at their little school or daycare they go to because they like give me power, man. It's weird. It's a weird thing. I know you don't, you don't have, you don't have any kids, but I've joked about it. Like every kid I have, I feel like I'm getting stronger. I've joked with, I've joked with the people in the media in Green Bay before, like, I was like, I guess I'm trying to get some of that dad strength, you know, you see these guys.

• 29:01Lewis Howes?

  Old man strength, man.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. People have this old man strength, these big old forearms. And I'm like, damn, I will never be that big.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  So strong, yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  And I still don't feel that, but I was like, every kid I have, it's just another, it just juices me up, man.

• 29:13Lewis Howes?

  Your bones get a little thicker.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  They do. It's something about it. I love it, man. My, my, my daughter's a little like, um, she's like a little free spirit singer dancer. She says she wants to be a rock star and have her hair, she wants to dye her hair purple and be a rock star. Um, she sings all the time and that like inspires me. It's so awesome to see how like free she is. And then my son is a little two-year-old little meatball Neanderthal who has a sweet, long mohawk we cut into his hair and he's just unreal, man. Like he'll sit there and headbutt me and just laugh. He headsbutt, he'll headbutt me so hard. And it's like, sometimes he'll get me in the right spot where it's, you know, when you get hit and you're like, you have like, you have like a natural reaction. Like, oh God, you want to like punch the guy back?

• 29:57Speaker 01

  I don't have that. I don't have the urge to punch my son ever. I want to make sure that's clear, but he'll headbutt me so hard and it never phases this dude. And it's like, and I start saying, I'm like, that's right, buddy. His name's Hendrix. I'm like, that's right, Hendrix. This is, it's a hawk family tradition. Your nose, your nose is made of granite and your head's like concrete, you know? So you're not going to, uh, can't break that thing. That's your money maker. And so I just joke with him, but even though I'm like joking, I say stuff like that around my wife, my kids.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  I, there's a shred of truth to it always. It's something about it, man. I don't know. Like I can't, it's annoying, I'm sure for people to hear that don't have kids or think I'm just stupid, but I understand that. Trust me. Um, but something about having them, I know I got off on a tangent, but having them, taking care of them first thing in the morning and seeing them and like getting, they like power me up. I don't know. I don't know how to describe it, but they do. It's just their, their freedom and their curiosity, I think, does it.

• 30:52Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. What do you think is the biggest thing you've learned about yourself over the last, is it nine or 10 years you've been in the league now?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Nine years.

• 30:58Lewis Howes?

  Nine years. What's the biggest thing you've learned about yourself with one team? You've been with the Green Bay Packers. They they just released you recently and I'm not sure where you're going next. But what's what have you learned over the last nine years? The biggest, maybe the top three lessons you've learned about yourself?

• 31:13Speaker 01

  I don't know if I can put it into three, but I would say I've learned that there's no like, there's no secret pill to making someone successful or making someone have like longevity in the NFL. And and you know, as being an athlete, there's, there's guys that are born just absolute monsters, absolute freaks. Like we got, we have guys all over the NFL that if you tried to explain it to, we've gotten like arguments with my mom because my brother played college football too. And and he knows there's some guys like, and the majority of the guys in the NFL are just physical specimens and they were born that way. Some guys, you know, they'll eat, you know, eat sausage gravy and fruity pebbles and not have to work out and they just have

• 31:53Lewis Howes?

  Shredded freaks.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, 12 pack and run a four three. There's, there's a lot of those guys around the NFL. But the thing that I've learned, those guys are around, but those guys don't hang around if they don't find a way to kind of take care of themselves and take care of their body and stay with it and and not ride the old roller coaster of like the ups and downs that that a season and a whole career can bring for sure. Because man, day to day in football, you know it.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  It's a grind.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And it's like one day, if you let it all kind of get to you, it's such the the amounts of highs and lows that happen just in one day, even in practice and meetings are crazy, let alone a game, you know, when you give up a big player, you miss a tackle or drop a ball. It's like you got to find a way to rebound and and keep your head down and keep going. And I've had to like live that. I've always kind of said that. And then I I've definitely learned that I gotta, I gotta live that, man. I gotta, I gotta do what I've been telling my kids and telling people, I'm, you know, just stay consistent, stay, stay the course and keep my plan and my plan. It, it's always, you know, it's ever, it ebbs and flows, but it doesn't really change the core like principles of of how I approach it.

• 33:00Lewis Howes?

  Right. What, um, how important is?

• 33:04Lewis Howes?

  Preparing and watching game film for you and how do you analyze pregame and film?

• 33:10Speaker 01

  It's really important. It's a thing that people like to talk about a lot. Players, certain players love to talk about how much film they watch. It's like a brag. People like to brag about, oh, I watched 15 hours of film. Like, all right, well, tell me, tell me one thing, tell me their top three formations that you didn't read in the scouting report that your coach gave you, you know? That happens a lot. And I've learned from the older guys when I was young, they taught me, you know, they kind of teach you how to study film and you might be looking for, you gotta go in, the thing that I've learned that helps me the most is I learned this in college. I gotta go in with some, it's just like life. I go in with some kind of intent when I'm watching a film. Say I watch a game, a full game of a team, because you can watch full games. A lot of times you're watching cut-ups of, say, just their first

• 33:51Speaker 01

  and second down runs, like from every game of the season. I'll go in with like an intent, thinking, say, say I'm watching a whole game and it's early in the week for a team we play. I might go in saying, all right, I want to see what they, what it looks like, what they're gonna do second, second and 10 after a first down incomplete pass or something, you know? Like some kind of intent, so have some kind of little thing and then that might, I might use that for 20 minutes and then I'll hopefully change it and think if I want to look up at some tendencies, like what does the center do here to give away a snap counter, when he's gonna do it? And is this certain receiver lined up only on one side of the ball? And if he's, if he's off the ball, are they gonna run? Is it more of a chance of them running and all that? And just find a way to have things like that going in and then I'm

• 34:36Speaker 01

  always writing stuff down. I let you know on my podcast, I'm a, I'm a big writer. I don't want to, I don't write intelligently. My handwriting's bad, but I love to write. I just love something about the physical act of writing with a pen and paper and I do that a lot with all, I have tons and tons of notebooks from, uh, from Green Bay that have stocked up over the years. So that's just has all my notes and my, what I think, because you know, you always come back to, uh, you, you kind of have to scout coaches as well because we'll, I'll always ask, coaches will bounce around more than anybody and I'll say, well, who's their offensive coordinator? And you find out who their offensive coordinator was. They're not gonna really overhaul their whole offense they have. So even if they're with a different team, it's five years down the road from the last time you might have faced this guy, he's gonna have a lot of the same things going on.

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's true. What would you say is your best asset or skill on the field and then off the field?

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Well, I like to think they're one in the same. I've butchered a quote that I've read from a like a Navy SEAL commander one time saying, if I can't trust you in everyday life, I can't trust you on the battlefield. Meaning like, I'm not going to be a bad dude. I'm not going to go out there and I'm not going to treat people, be disrespectful to people. I'm not going to mess around on my wife, whatever like morals and standards I have that I live with in life, I want to take to the field. So I want my teammates to always trust me and I want to be accountable to them. And that's all I've always said that. I just want them to feel like they can trust me no matter what. I'm going to do my job. I'm not going to hang them out to dry. We're all in it for the same cause. And I hope that's one of the things that my, if you talk to my teammates, they would

• 36:13Speaker 01

  understand and hopefully my friends too, you know, off the field know that, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll die for my, for my kids and my, my wife and my good friends and everybody. There's a lot of people you kind of gotta, gotta know what you're willing to, what you're really willing to defend with your life. And, and I have, I have certain things that I, kind of things that I live by. And, and that's one of them that I want to try to make everybody else around me feel good about themselves. I learned that from one of my strength coaches. He's really, his name is Mark Levatt. He's up there in Green Bay. He's really changed everything on how I view. He just has a really good perspective on things and kind of taught me perspective and don't get caught up in, in everything. Cause the NFL is a, it's not reality, man. It's, it's

• 36:58Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable. It's the greatest ride ever, but it's not, it's not real life. I mean, we know that. Like you're playing a game. I was, I was for nine straight years, I'm driving to the Lambeau field for so-called work. That's where our parking lot was and that's where our meetings and everything were. So I never let that get, I never let that leave my mind. I wanted to always know that it was a special thing and it always will be special.

• 37:23Lewis Howes?

  What would you say your friends would say is your best asset?

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Probably my calves.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  No, joking, I wish. I used to do calf races in high school. That's another genetic thing you can't change either without steroids, probably. Sorry, sorry to give you a terrible answer. My best asset. See, you make me feel so weird, Louis. Like, I feel like I'm talking about myself. And I feel like I'm being like, I feel like I'm just, whatever I say is like feeding my own ego. I feel stupid. I feel like, I feel like my brother's, my brother's gonna, my 320 pound electrician, what is brother's gonna come beat me up when he hears this?

• 38:01Speaker 01

  But I don't know. I mean, I think like anything, I think they can count on me. I think my friends will know that I'm super loyal and learning from guys like you, I'm, I'm learning to, I have a big problem. I'm like naturally a shy kind of guy that doesn't get involved and doesn't put myself like into situations I shouldn't be a part of. But now I've, over time, over the last probably three, four, or five years, and I've become aware of guys like you, Aubrey Marcus, just different guys that make you think differently. When someone, and I teach my kids this, when someone does something that's awesome and I respect it, I tell them, like, it might, this might get awkward. Like, sometimes it is awkward if you, like, it's a stranger, like, hey, man, I just want to let you know, I really respect your passion up there. If it's like a,

• 38:45Speaker 01

  an open night mic at the coffee shop, you know, I like, I gotta let them know. But then I also try to figure out on the flip side, if someone sucks, I want to tell them they suck and not sugarcoat it. So, I'm pretty, I'm not as good at that, at letting people know if I, if I disagree or I don't think they're doing the right thing. A lot of times I'll just let them go, but sometimes I think it's good for everybody to let them know that, amen. Yeah, like, I don't have, I don't, I don't ever claim to have any answers, but I can, I could tell you that I, what's like worked for me and what hasn't worked for me.

• 39:15Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yeah. You're just a good Ohio boy. We all, we all come from that same place.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  Just corn for just grew up on a farm, you know, just milking cows and everything, right? And every Ohio kid.

• 39:25Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  That's not me. I did not grow up on a farm.

• 39:29Lewis Howes?

  What is, um, what's your vision for the rest of your career? You've had nine epic years with Green Bay. Now you're, I don't even know what's happened in the last week. Are you picked up yet or what's?

• 39:40Speaker 01

  I'm a, I think free agency starts here soon. Um, I'm officially, I mean, I'm officially a free agent right now and it's a new world for me.

• 39:49Lewis Howes?

  If you could write, if you could write the last chapters of your NFL career, whether that's one season, 10 seasons, whatever it may be, what do you want to write?

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Well, it's not going to be 10 seasons because I won't remember my name if I play another 10 seasons. That's for sure, but, um, I would hope, I never want to put like a year of numbers on it because I've, I've been super fortunate to play nine years so far and I feel good. I feel really good healthily. My health wise, uh, my brain feels good, which is the most important thing out of everything. I can't replace that. I can get knee replacements, hip replacements, whatever. Can't change my brain out.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  But if I could write it, um, the only thing that ever comes to my mind and it sounds like I'm lying is that I just need more rings. I got one Superbowl ring and I need more like I, getting there and getting that one made, made me realize that everything else sucks so bad. Like it's terrible. We got beat in the NFC championship game in a brutal game this year.

• 40:45Lewis Howes?

  So, so tough, man.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's like, it's so, I realize how hard it is to get there and to win a ring. Like, look at Seattle. They went back to back and then they had that game one.

• 40:54Lewis Howes?

  Oh, and they blew it.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, one play, it's over. When they would, that like rewrites your whole, the whole dynasty they had going on. So I know how hard it is. Um, but I just want to get back there so bad. So I, whatever team that may be, um, coming up here in free agency, anything can happen. You can go anywhere. Um, I'm willing to do whatever, man. It's not about, uh, especially at this point in my, my career. It's not about money. I'm not going to sit there and hold out and try to get a couple of extra bucks that I feel I deserve. I don't care really. I'm, I was lucky enough to get drafted to win, uh, rookies.

• 41:27Lewis Howes?

  When they gave big signing bonuses.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, rookies didn't have that. They weren't slotted like when I got drafted. So yeah, I'm, I'm aware of that and, um,

• 41:35Lewis Howes?

  What was your signing, what was your signing bonus then? It was public, right?

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, like it's split up into multiple things like there's a signing bonus, roster bonus. But yeah, when my, where I was at, it was like, I don't know, 12 or 15.

• 41:47Lewis Howes?

  It's a nice change, right? When you're 22 years old.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sorry. I feel like an idiot even saying that. Um, but yeah, it's all publics now.

• 41:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  But yeah, no, I already, I spent all that, you know, I got nothing left. I'm just straggling. That's why I'm talking to guys like you. I'm trying to learn how to make some money online.

• 42:02Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. That's funny. Well, okay. So the ring, I, I feel that. Um, who has been the, the like, the athlete that you played against where you're just like this guy? Obviously everyone is a freak in the NFL, pretty much 90% of people. And there's guys who are just like worked their butt off and made it happen, who have great talent as well. But who is the guy that you're like, this guy is the greatest athlete freak I have ever seen? Maybe they're not the best person, maybe they're not the most consistent, but like, wow, when he wanted to turn it on, he is unstoppable.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Well, for me, there, there's a bunch of them, but it's pretty easy. Um, a little guy by the name of Adrian Peterson came in the league one year after me. He's played for the Vikings, so they're in our, they were in our division. I played him twice a year for eight years. And that guy is an absolute monster and he's, I, I tell people, I have, I have a ton of respect for this dude. And I, I understand he was suspended and how he was parenting his child, whatever. I don't even know the whole story, but so people will have strong opinions both ways on him. But if it's purely as a football player and how I've dealt with him personally, he's always been awesome, super respectable. And he's like the, he's what happens when, I was just talking to someone about this the other day.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  He is what happens when you're born an absolute genetic freak with tons and tons of gifts and skill. But then you, he also works his balls off, man. And, and he works hard off the field and does everything and just loves it, absolutely loves it. I could feel his passion. Like you could tackle the dude and like, you gotta be kidding me. There'll be times he's tackled, he's on the ground and his feet are still driving, his knees, he's got this crazy knee drive. And it's like, I'm not, I'm not going down. Sorry guys, like this is happening. And then when he does get tackled, he's genuinely like pissed every time, like damn, I was supposed to take that one. I was supposed to take that one a hundred, like every run for him is a touchdown in his mind.

• 43:55Lewis Howes?

  God, he runs so hard. It's just like. A train, man. Once it gets going, you cannot stop him.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  He lowers his head and if he catches you, he'll gore you, man. He'll, he'll end your life. You gotta watch out. You gotta get him first.

• 44:08Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. What is the, what is the, um, I'm always fascinated by elite athletes and the drive that helps them get to where they are. What do you feel like is the common thread between a majority of the athletes? Obviously, everyone has a different drive of getting there. But is there a common thread of the drive of the determination of the motivation behind why guys get to the NFL and how they make it happen? Can you, can you speak into that?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  I don't know if there's one thing that has like one single thread that goes through everybody, but I think, I think everybody's motivated by in different ways. You can't pretend to, you know, a guy like Ray Lewis is going to motivate some people and other people might be turned off by that, you know, over the top rah rah craziness. But regardless of what people's motivation are, and the, the sad thing is that a lot of people now, especially with how kind of culture is, are, are motivated by fame and money. Cause you're, you know, you get, you get to the league, you're gonna make a lot of money and people are gonna know who you are, the, the better player you are. So people are motivated by that. And I, I've always told teammates of mine, I'm like, hey, man, especially, especially younger guys too.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Um, it's just different, you know, the old, us old crusty guys like me talking about like the new, the millennials, you know, but they're, they're, they're, they're great kids too, believe me. I think I've, I've always never shied away from that telling teammates, like, hey, man, if, if you're motivated by, by money and fame and all this, I was like, hey, that's, that's fine. I, I don't have to agree with you, but we're all in it for the cause. And if the team does well, you do well. So. I think just motivation's a weird thing for me, man, because I, I always feel like if you have to get motivated, then you shouldn't, you're in the wrong job. You're in the wrong profession. We all need little things here and there where you gotta watch a Will Smith video, listen to him talk about, I will not, you know, he's got, he's not gonna, what do you say? I'm not afraid to die in a treadmill. I love that.

• 46:03Lewis Howes?

  The greatest line, yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  That's the greatest thing ever. And I love it. And you're like, oh my God, this guy is amazing. I show my kids YouTube clips of him. Um, but. I think regardless of what your motivation is, you shouldn't have to have a guy get up there and tell you every day and give you a rah rah speech to get going. You need to, you need to be intrinsically motivated. I've said before, and I know, I think most players are, to be honest. And if you're not, you're not going to be around very long. Your, your skills, your, the talent you're born with, uh, is only going to last you so long. And everybody's seen that. They, they've seen guys that have every physical tool in the world and they just can't put it together because either their heart's not in it, or they just don't want to work at it.

• 46:44Lewis Howes?

  Couple of questions left. What are you most grateful for in your life, AJ?

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Well, everything. I think the, the easy answer is, is my wife and kids. Um, but that's a boring answer and that, it's an easy one. I think that anybody would take. As long as they're good, I'm good. That's like this whole situation. I got, Packers released me after nine years and I knew it was coming. They were, they were awesome. Super classy and great guys. And I have a ton of respect for them. And people would come to me like, like it's something like I had died and I, I think I was quoted in my podcast or someone, because I think my grandma or someone told me, oh, I said, like, it's all right. My, my wife's all right. My kids are all right. Let's all have some perspective here. It's okay. You know, I got, I had a great nine years. I'm very grateful for that. So I, I think I'm grateful that I have some, over the years, I've kind of

• 47:30Speaker 01

  got some perspective on things. And I don't know, like, football wise, it's hard for me to say. I always like, I think everything is intertwined. There's nothing, I don't separate things. Like I don't separate how I approach football from how I approach life and how I want to be a parent and a husband and all that. It all kind of carries over. But I'm grateful honestly that I've, I've grown up enough or I've become aware enough to seek things like listening to, to honestly, guys like you, guys like Tim Ferriss, uh, Pat Flynn, Joe Rogan. Like I, all these people that I, I feel like that's a big thing that I've learned is I gotta have like a, a unique, like diverse group of friends because.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  If I, if all my buddies were like me, it'd be terrible, man. It'd be boring. No one, no one would be salsa dancing like you. It wouldn't be funny. Like, we wouldn't, it wouldn't be that cool, man. So I, I think I just, I don't know. Like, I'm always, I'm just curious. I wanna be constantly curious and I.

• 48:29Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  It's terrible because it comes back to my, I, I keep bringing stuff back to my kids, so I'm, I'm sure people get annoyed by it, but it's like, you listen to like a, listen to a four-year-old, listen to my daughter, why, why dad, why? What is that? Why, why? And I'm like, sometimes you can get like frustrated with it, but I always, then I start to realize, well, no, she's actually right. Like, you should question things. You should wanna know why things are the way they are.

• 48:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, definitely. I like that.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  She asked, Louis, what about this question real quick? Sorry to turn on you. I had to write this one down on my phone. So my wife and I sit and my four-year-old said, she said, Dad, how did God create himself?

• 49:05Lewis Howes?

  That's a great question.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  I literally stopped in my tracks and I was like, you know what? That's an absolutely amazing, amazing question you asked. I said, thank you for your great, great question. And I tried, I said something like, you know, he just has so much love for everybody and so much respect, and he's respectful to his parents, and he's such a good guy, and he has so much love that boom, there he was. Come up with something, you know, to make her like spread love and be nice to her friends and be a good girl. And, but I was like, you gotta be kidding me. This four-year-old girl asked a question that, I mean, I don't know how you top that question, honestly.

• 49:40Lewis Howes?

  That's great. I've, I haven't even thought of that.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  I know. That's why I'm like, your brain, and that's why I always think, it's one of my notes, I wanna, wanna, I do some speaking gigs here and there, and it's one of my things is to be, ask questions like a little kid, you know? Why not? I remember doing that, asking my dad on the way to basketball tournaments and stuff. He would ask me, or we would be talking, and I would always just kept asking him, why, why? Why do I wanna know? And for whatever reason, I'm, I'm definitely guilty of it. A lot of times we don't ask questions, whether I, I'm, you're scared of be, either you don't wanna annoy the person, or you don't wanna be the guy in the room that doesn't know what the person's talking.

• 50:15Lewis Howes?

  You don't want to stupid.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Cause you always, oh, you're, you idiot, I knew that one. Oh, did you bud?

• 50:24Lewis Howes?

  What's uh, what's your biggest fear, AJ?

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Biggest fear, um, gosh, this is good. You know, I should have probably like, problem was I had you on my podcast. So I was preparing for that instead of preparing to answer some of the questions I know that you asked. So it's good though. It's good. I would say my biggest fear, just off the top of my head to think about it, would be like not having, not having something that I'm passionate to work towards, to do, to have like, to be chasing all the time. Like it might, it sounds stupid and anything, but of course sports are, I'm super passionate about it. And that's like, that's my thing. It's been the vehicle for everything I've done. It's opened up a lot of doors.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  But even like my own podcast, I've really like grown into loving, putting myself kind of in these like awkward situations for me. Being like a quiet kid and doing stuff like this and hosting my own deal. But I would say if like, if that ever happened to where I didn't get excited for something, then I'd start to get worried, you know, like, aside from your, your family, if I, if there wasn't like something on the side that I was like, this is what, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah. I may, may branch into a million different things, just like what you do, but there's gotta be something you get just, get excited for, man. And I have a lot of things going on like that outside of football right now that I just love to do. And other people don't understand it and they don't, you try to explain it to them and they just, their eyes glaze over and whatever.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  But it's just, to me, it's just, it's what I love. And I think, yeah, if that ever went away, man, you know, I uh, probably got the ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease from football and you're suing the league. I don't know, man. That, that'd just be terrible, you know, like that's when they say people die, like when a coach, like, coach retires and they don't have anything they're working towards. They don't have any like common thing, like yeah, they don't have a purpose to wake up for. You're dead then. Why, why are you here?

• 52:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  So I don't want to lose that basically.

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  That's a good answer. Um, God, I had another question I was gonna ask you. That was a good one. And I'm trying to remember what it is right now. Oh, here's what it is. Here's what it is. I got it.

• 52:31Lewis Howes?

  If you have one or two sentences to leave to the world, everything else is deleted and erased online of everything you've ever said or done.

• 52:44Lewis Howes?

  But you get one or two sentences to say what you want to for your family, your kids, the world to know, a message for them to know about what you believe in, your truth, something. What would you leave?

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Well, I would, I would.

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  Sorry to put you on the spot there.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  I would put it, this is good, man. That's why you're, that's why you're, you're the best. You know what this makes me, all this does is make me feel like an idiot about my podcast now, like a me rambling. As you can see from my answers here, just rambling and thinking on, off the top of my head. And I see like how concise and good you are at asking these questions and what you're doing. So this is good, man. This is great, like schooling for me. This is great education to see how a pro like you does it. But if I had to give a sentence or something.

• 53:32Lewis Howes?

  A phrase, a sentence.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Phrase.

• 53:34Lewis Howes?

  A something.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  You know what instantly popped in my head while you were asking that was, was from Gladiator. You're not entertained. For some reason, I thought that would not be what I would leave. But maybe that'd be like a side note at the bottom.

• 53:46Lewis Howes?

  Drop the mic, David Hawk.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Everyone's like, what? What the hell is that? They haven't even seen the movie Gladiator. Gladiator got erased too, so we're all screwed. They all just think I'm weirdo. Um, I don't know if I could come up with a phrase. I would try to say, I would want to get across the point that maybe a guy like you, that's a learned writer, everything you do, you could phrase it for me after I give you my thoughts. But like, um, something about like, just be, something about being transparent and being authentic. Like, it would definitely have to do with just, just be you, like be authentic, no matter what that is. That's the thing I talk about on my, my podcast a lot. Like, if you're the biggest dick in the world, who cares? Be the biggest dick. I always respect the fact

• 54:32Speaker 01

  that you're a dick, but don't fake it and tell me and act like you're this, just great dude and you pray for 14 hours a day. And when, really you're the most jealous, insecure dude in the world. Whatever you are, just be you. So something about being authentic, I think, somehow how I could have smart guys like you write it down and phrase it. So it sounds much better for my kids. But I just want people to be real and, um, and be transparent. And we need to see. Not only like the good, awesome times, but we need to see people struggle and that helps all the time. I talked to a lot of military guys on my, my podcast and they, they tell the guys that are just these crazy powerful stories about like, hey, man, it's not all champagne and roses. There's a lot of bad things that happen and we all can come out

• 55:15Speaker 01

  from the other side and that's inspirational to me. So I need to, we need to see everything though. Like, we need to know the things that Brad Pitt struggles with, you know? Like whatever's in his mind. It's not, everything's not perfect for a guy like that or all these people we see on TV, we think have the perfect life. They struggle with the same things that all of us do and let's just all get it out there so we can all, you know, grow a little bit.

• 55:36Lewis Howes?

  Right. What's the main thing you struggle with?

• 55:38Speaker 01

  I try to, I've felt, see, now I, now I also feel like, it's like an ego thing that I don't want to come across like I have a big ego or something like, that's like one of my things. Actually, I, I actually don't, my dad told me a while ago, like when reporters or people would ask me questions, I would just, I would just shit on myself the whole time. I don't know, whatever, you know, like just talk bad about, like, cause I just felt weird talking about myself. But, um, I think I, I would, if I, sometimes I struggle and I talked to Aubrey about this, like, I sometimes I question for sure, like, why do, why do good things happen to supposed bad people that you see around, you know? And why do, on the flip side, why do really terrible things happen to people that I've seen are

• 56:23Speaker 01

  just the greatest humans alive, you know? Why? Why does this happen? And I, I don't know if I'll ever get the answer or I'll ever figure it out, but I'm always kinda, that's like a thing that just a theme that pops up into my head every once in a while and I, I hate both sides of it and I hate when I acknowledge the fact when I do have those thoughts and I just try to, try to figure it out. Ask smart people like you. What do you think of that? Why, why do, why do good things happen to bad people and why do really bad things happen to good people?

• 56:49Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, that is a great question. Uh, you know, the thing that popped into my head when you said that is that the only way I can really justify it is that everything happens for a reason. And I would say that, you know, in our core, we're all good humans. We all have good intentions. Um,

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Do we? Do you think we're born, are we all born with like good intentions?

• 57:11Lewis Howes?

  I feel like we're all born. Well, I mean, I think ninety nine point nine percent of us are born with huge hearts.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  What about Jeffrey Dahmer?

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, ninety nine point nine percent. Yeah.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, here's the thing. I think we're all born with hearts to love. I think that's like our intention is to come from a place of love.

• 57:31Lewis Howes?

  And that's why when we're children, we want attention, we want to smile and laugh. And I think every now and then we, our environment and the things that happen to us and our, you know, the experience that we go through, shape us into not having as much love. And then we choose what we want to do after that. But I think we come from a place of, we have big hearts and we want to experience love. But our fears take us over sometimes. And so we choose to live in fear and hate, uh, and anger or manipulation. And I want to just do bad things. So, you know, I honestly don't have the answer, but that's how I justify it, I guess. That's what I, what I think.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, that's one of those things that it's not like, nothing's black and white, cut and dry, but it's just one of those deals that kills me, breaks your heart to see like, yeah, anyway, I don't know. You see parents lose little kids.

• 58:27Lewis Howes?

  No, it's horrible.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Whatever. That stuff's different than when you see like a guy who you know, doesn't, doesn't work and, you know, cheats on his wife and messes around and just treats people horrendously. And then they pump him up and he's, you know, it all comes, it all figures itself out. Yeah, it all, it all figures itself out. And I don't want to wish bad on anybody, that's for sure.

• 58:44Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Exactly. All right. I feel like I can talk to you. I said we're gonna do for like 30, 45 minutes, but this is like over an hour now. And I want to keep asking you questions.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Is it really over an hour?

• 58:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think so. It's over an hour now. But I want to keep asking you questions, but I want to do it for another time. And I want to do it, actually, I want to videotape us doing a workout together, or like throwing a football or something. So when I come back to Ohio during your offseason.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Come in the spring or something, man. I got nine acres, nine acres close to where you grew up.

• 59:13Lewis Howes?

  Or Dublin, huh?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, like north, north a little bit. So I got some space, got a gate and fence. And we can lock it. I got a weight room in the basement. I got on it, I got on it zombie kettlebells. I got the tribal bells. And we, honestly, I'm not joking. These people think I'm joking. When the weather gets decent, I go out and I, I take my axe and hatchet and I, there are tree lined on three sides. I chop trees and I chop the dead wood out of there. And it's part of my work. And I just put them on my back and lunge and squat and run around like Rocky. And it just feels amazing, man. And then I take them, chop up wood, and I burn them in my fireplace at night with my kids and roast marshmallows. So it all, it's all being used.

• 59:53Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. I'm gonna come and do this one day. I promise you that. If I'm invited, I'm coming.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  You are, you have an open invitation. Please let me know, because I'll have a billion questions for you, man. Because I want, I got a lot of things that I'm, I want to learn from you because you got, you're doing it, man. You're out there and you're hustling. I love it.

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it. Well, yeah, awesome. We'll plan to do another one then. Because I have a lot of more questions for you, to be honest. I want to acknowledge you really quick before I ask you my final question. I want to acknowledge you, AJ, because this interview for me is as big of a privilege and a pleasure as it was interviewing Tony Robbins and other people like that because of who you are. And, you know, since the moment I watched you on TV for Ohio State to now, everything I've seen about you, heard about you, experienced about you, has been like, you are living and being what you, what your message is to the world, which is to be real and to be you. And whatever you are, own it. And that's what I've seen in you for the last decade.

• 1:00:51Lewis Howes?

  And you've owned that. You don't try to be smarter than you are. You don't try to. Acts different than you are. You just are who you are. And I also acknowledge, so I acknowledge that first off, and I also acknowledge your willingness to learn because I feel like there are so many guys, professional athletes, or people who are at the top of their game in certain business even, that feel like they've got it all figured out, feel like they don't need to learn anymore. Don't take on new skills. Don't get uncomfortable in something outside of what they're already doing. And for you to start a podcast and reaching out to different types of people and doing what you're doing, I think is so awesome and so cool. And I want to acknowledge you for all of that. So it's been a pleasure having you

• 1:01:36Lewis Howes?

  on. I'm going to tell everyone to make sure I'm going to have this linked up in the show notes where you can check out AJ Hawks podcast. I believe it's called the Hawk Cast, right? Hawkcast.com?

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's corny, but I had to have a name.

• 1:01:47Lewis Howes?

  No, I like it. It's cool.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Lewis Howes?

  And you do good video interviews. You've got some awesome people on there. You got Herbstrecker on there. You got a lot of cool.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  John Daly smoking cigs the whole time.

• 1:01:56Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. You got some cool people on there. So I'll have that linked up. Make sure people check it out. But it's been a privilege having you on, man, and sharing and sharing your story and message to the world. My final question, this time, is what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  I thought about this one too, Louis. But then I wanted to be like spontaneous. And that's the problem. When you interview one of your fanboys, they already know a lot of the questions coming up. Not a lot of them, but the ones I know how you end them. Well, first, I want to say thanks for the nice words, man. That makes me feel honored and weird and awkward all at the same time. You know, it's always weird when people, you know, appreciate what you do, or how you care yourself, or whatever. Just makes you, makes me feel almost embarrassed. But hopefully someday you get comfortable with that. But yeah, man, it's, like I said, from, from people that are very open and honest and

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  aren't scared of putting them at themselves out there, like yourself, I, I'm trying to, I kind of do that too. I always let people know. Like, yeah, I remember when I was in seventh grade, I was trying to act like I was the toughest guy in the room. When people laugh at me when I tell them that I was, you know, I cried at a movie or commercial or stuff. I don't care. I'm not scared to admit it. I cry all the time, man. My kids did it. My kids did it to me. But it did. And so like, I don't, there's nothing to hide. We have nothing to hide. If you have something to hide, you're doing something wrong. So that's, that's something that I've learned from guys like you. So I really appreciate you, the nice words you said about me and, and, um, but my definition of greatness, man, um, I, uh, I don't know. Like I don't, like I said

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  before, I don't ever, if I ever go speak to a team, I've, or, uh, Ohio State every once in a while, I've gone and spoken to those guys. I let them know right off the bat from the jump of my caiman, I'm just gonna let you know, I don't have all the answers. I don't have any of the answers probably, but I'm gonna let you know what's worked for me and what hasn't worked for you, because I hate when people come in and they start preaching to me right from the start. I just, it turns me off instantly. So if I had to like, in a roundabout way to answer your question about greatness, um, you can tell how wishy washy I am. The fact that I watch your podcast and I listen, I'm like, ah, man, if I ever do this, what would I answer? What would my answer be of greatness? And I have nothing. I mean, I do, I just have like, that's my problem. I have five billion things in my head that I don't know exactly which one.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  But I would say honestly, for me, greatness is being, being authentic, chasing whatever you're passionate about, regardless of how much money you make, if it gives you notoriety, if it does anything, just having it satisfy any, whatever that hunger is you're, you have. And you don't have to sell yourself, you know, sell your soul, your soul to the devil. You don't have to step outside of who you really are to do that. And, um, that would be greatness for me. Not a great explanation, but you know, maybe, maybe next time I'll, I'll write something down. I don't know. Being real.

• 1:05:02Lewis Howes?

  Being real, you're being yourself and that's your message.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like I said, I'm just a dumb football player. I don't have a real job. I've never had to have a real job. That's why I always, uh, that's why I like guys like you, man. You guys are doing it. It's cool.

• 1:05:13Lewis Howes?

  There you go. There you go. And you know, to be honest, Jack Canfield, I don't know if you remember listening to that one. He said, every time, even when you're sarcastic, and this is something I do, I put myself down sometimes as well. He said, even when you're sarcastic and you put yourself down, you're, you're sending a message to yourself. And you want to make sure whatever message you're sending to yourself is positive. So.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Do remember that.

• 1:05:33Lewis Howes?

  Might be something to think about. I'm not saying it's easy.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember that. I just didn't, I didn't carry it with me when I listened to that two days ago. But yeah, I say it a lot. It's, it may be simple, but it's not easy. That's, it's one of those things. You gotta find a way to live it. And I'm, we're always on a constant journey. No one's, I don't think we ever get there, but hopefully we can, we can take little steps.

• 1:05:53Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. It's all about, it's progress, not perfection. AJ Hawk, you are the man, brother. I'm so glad you came on and we got connected and I'll be definitely coming to chop some wood sometime soon. So, thank you so much for coming on, my man.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. Open offer out here, nine acres. I'll bring, bring your own apps, or I have two of them and multiple hatchets for you.

• 1:06:14Lewis Howes?

  I'm in. I appreciate it.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  Deal.

• 1:06:20Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode with my man AJ. If you want to check out more with the links that we had and the information that we talked about on this podcast, go back to lewishouse.com/149 and you can check out all the links back to AJ's Twitter and to his podcast as well. You can see my episode up on there. Little video interview that we did, we'll have that linked up in the show notes. And also, when you go to lewishouse.com/149, make sure to subscribe to my free newsletter. I give a lot of great free tips every single week and you'll be up to date on what's happening with the podcast because we'll send a newsletter out each and every week. So, make sure to check out lewishouse.com/149 for the full show notes, all the links for AJ. Keep in

• 1:07:04Lewis Howes?

  touch with him. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends over on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all of that good stuff. I appreciate you guys so much. And I'm gonna have to have AJ back on or we're gonna have to do a video doing a workout at his house sometime. So, again, thank you guys for joining me today. This was a lot of fun for me to interview a fellow football guy, someone who's achieved a lot more success than I have in the football arena. Fun to always connect with Ohio guys and stay connected to my roots. So, thank you guys again so much for coming on. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.