131 How to Overcome Fear and Dive Into Flow with Donald Schultz

"If we quit everything that we didn't enjoy the first time, we wouldn't do anything." - Donald Schultz If you enjoyed this episode (and want to see amazing videos of what we talk about), visit www.lewishowes.com/131 for show notes. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 131 with adventure seeker Donald Schultz.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Now I want to introduce you guys to a very special guest on the School of Greatness today. His name is Mr. Donald Schultz, and he is born in South Africa. He is a filmmaker, animal expert, writer, photographer, and extreme adventurer that just loves to have fun in life. He started to work with reptiles at the age of 13 and was fortunate to have an internship at the world famous Fitzsimmons Snake Park, where he received a sound schooling in herpetology. His love affair with dangerous activities extends beyond just his work, and he tries to incorporate the two whenever possible. He is an avid skydiver, base jumper, and highly specialized scuba diver,

• 1:17Lewis Howes?

  having been certified as the youngest Class II commercial diver in Africa. Very interesting guy, and I'm excited to dive into this episode with Donald as we cover a wide range of topics. And one of the topics that I'd like to talk about in this specific episode is about fear. And the fears we have in life, how to overcome fear, and what's necessary in order to reach flow states whenever our biggest fears come up. And I think this is something that we can all learn to tap into is how to overcome our fear and embrace our fear, and really tap into that flow state whenever fear arises. So I'm very excited to dive into this episode with Donald because he's just such an interesting guy.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  And the stories he's going to share with you right now, some of them are going to blow you away. So make sure to pay attention and listen all the way through. So let's go ahead and dive into this episode, episode number 131 with the one and only Donald Schultz.

• 2:19Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. Very excited about today's guest. His name is Mr. Donald Schultz. What's up Donald?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Hey Louis, how's it going?

• 2:27Lewis Howes?

  It's good man. And the more, I met you originally through Aubrey Marcus down in Austin, Texas with On It. And love him and the whole team and what they're up to. And the more I've been researching about you and the more videos I watch, it's like this mesmerizing, I don't know, trance, just watching your videos because you do so much. It's not like you just do one thing really extremely well. You do all these different things at a high level. And it's mesmerizing because it's so dangerous. So I want to, I want to talk about all these things that you're up to.

• 3:03Lewis Howes?

  And, and really dive into fear a lot. I want to cover fear a lot in this because I feel like you've mastered fear. But maybe you haven't mastered fear and it's just something you learn to manage every time you undertake one of these things. So can we talk about specifically, just give a rundown of all the different things you do? In our introduction, I'm going to talk about you as well and, and let people know all the things you've done. But can you just give a rundown of like, in your point of view, what are all the things that you do?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, I mean, the best, best way to probably go through it is chronologically. First of all, thank you so much for chatting to me. It was, it was absolutely mesmerizing watching you and what you do. And I was like, wow, who is this guy? And obviously researching you, I'm like, oh, holy shit. Like there's some really, really cool people out there. And a lot of them are friends with Aubrey, which is, which is handy. So, so basically I was born and raised in South Africa, hence the funny accent. Started working with animals when I was about six years old and that's, you know, catching snakes and whatnot. And then professionally, when I was 12 or 13 at a, at a snake park. So I got a really good school, schooling in snakes and deadly, deadly animals. Became a commercial diver in South Africa right after apartheid fell.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  So was diving with the military, diving with the police force, doing some pretty high level, you know, underwater work, underwater explosives and, and, you know, welding and body recovery and things like that. Moved to the States in 2002, decided to pursue my, my love of animals more and started working in a veterinary hospital, then a specialty hospital, then started going to college to become a veterinarian and realized that, you know, I preferred being in the field. So kind of went back to working with animals and their natural environment and using what I'd learned at the, at the animal hospital. Um. That all then came full circle to me um getting a TV show about what I was doing. So in doing that, I learnt more about photography, videography um and so on.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  And then during one of these shows, the the executive producer was like, would you jump out of a plane? I'm like, in a heartbeat. So ca- cut to two years later, I'm jumping out of planes and wingsuiting and all sorts of things. And then then the the, you know, the general take over from all of this is is I'm a storyteller. So, you know, everywhere I go, I either have a, you know, video camera or a still camera while I write about it or or just tell people about what I'm what I'm doing. Um. And having grown up in South Africa, you know, you kind of get to realize that no one's an expert in anything. You know, everyone starts off as a novice. So I'm like, well, why can't I do that? You know, if that guy can do it, he's he didn't get born with that skill. He he obviously acquired it. So um some of the things I do is is um make film. Um. Some of the topics range from from conservation to rhinoceros poaching

• 5:43Speaker 01

  to wingsuit proximity flying, which is when you jump off rocks and fly next to them really close to wingsuits. Uh. I've been a cameraman on Shark Week. Um. I've, you know, we're doing a bunch of documentaries now with Aubrey with um with regards to entuagens or or sacred medicine. Um. I work in in the largest animal hospital potentially in the world, yeah, in Los Angeles, uh when I'm not traveling. Um. And then the rest of it's kind of, you know, as as my attention grabs it, then I sort of pursue it till I I feel like I've done all I can do and I move on to the next thing. So, you know, wingsuiting, rebreather diving, shark filming, snake catching, uh base jumping, you know, filmmaker would probably be the most accurate.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Just a couple of days. Yeah, it's a funny one because I've got a manager and an agent and my manager hates me because he doesn't know how to sell it. It's too much, yeah. And and and you go into a room and people are like, well, what do you do? I'm like, well, what do you want me to do? Because, I mean, I I it's hard to pigeonhole a human being. And I think that's one of the big tragedies of. Of our day and age, everyone either has to be an accountant or a mechanic, you know, or an adventurer. Why can't you do everything?

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  It's bullshit.

• 6:53Lewis Howes?

  I like, I like that. I mean, there's a few things I want to speak into there and I'm going to have a couple of videos linked up on the show notes. I'll let you guys know what this link is at the end of this episode to, to see Donald's videos of this, but there's like a video of you getting like bitten by a shark underwater and like just letting the shark bite you or I think it's looks like that. I'm like, what is happening here? You're catching like, you're catching like black mambas with your bare hands. You're like, you, you also did a show where you had lived with like a hundred snakes in a box on in Vegas Strip for like a week or something like that. Right? So there's, there's all these crazy things you do and I'll have links to all of them. And before I ask you my first question, which I originally I planned, I feel like I'm in some ways similar to you.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Really not into what you do, but in some ways I like to do it all. I like to master it all. I like to be curious about everything that's exciting to me or interesting to me. And then I like to take a three to six months and throw my entire soul into that passion or hobby or experience so that I can become, you know, the best that I can become at that experience or passion or thing in that amount of time. And then I move on to the next and constantly use that skill that I learned or use that experience and add flavor to the next experience that I build upon or to the relationships I have in my life. And I find that the most enjoyable thing to do in life is to have multiple talents and multiple hobbies as opposed to one thing. Like you said, most people want you to be able to do.

• 8:23Lewis Howes?

  So I feel like we're in some ways similar there and I think it's the best way to live life. Don't you?

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. And, and you know, the, the, there's a Bruce Lee saying, I fear the man more that's practiced one kick 10,000 times than the man who's practiced 10,000 kicks one time, which is true. You don't want to be totally like, oh, I'm doing this and I'm doing this. But you know, the three to six month part is, is a really good, you know, getting your feet wet rather than doing something like, ah, that's not for me. You know, if we, we quit everything that we didn't enjoy the first time, we wouldn't do anything. Like a lot of things aren't enjoyable the first time. But I look at it as like a bell curve, you know, in the beginning it's kind of slow to start. Then you have this, you know, exponential rates of growth and then it levels off. And then the the gains are really, really small. Um. So usually what I do is is kind of like you is I fixate on something.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  When I get to that meaty part of the bell curve, when it's really good and when I get to the point where it's a lot of effort for not much increase in return, I'm like, okay, cool. I did that. It was amazing. I I think I'm, you know, I'm above the average person where it comes to the skill. And I'm gonna steal all this information and use what I've learned in scuba diving and skydiving. Use what I learned in skydiving in filmmaking and using what I'm, you know, doing in filmmaking in reptiles and and you you have all these different worlds sort of, you know, merging male minds look at things as parts. Female minds look at things as holes. And I think, you know, one of the big problems with us now is we're looking at the world as pieces instead of this big hole.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  And and people battle to understand things because they're so they're so well driven and so well versed in this area of expertise. But they have no clue how to do anything else. And that's where it becomes hard to, you know, have this this Renaissance man kind of, you know, multimodal worldview, kind of like a Google Earth view. Everyone's on the on the street level.

• 10:10Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's a good way to look at it. Interesting. You know, one of the things that I found about you when I was researching you, or at least I think it's true, you can speak in this, is that you're actually afraid of spiders and heights. Is that correct?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm afraid of a few things and and that's the the weird like it's a classic, you know, Hollywood producer thing. People hear I'm scared of spiders and like, will you work with spiders? I'm like, well, yeah, of course I'll work with them. But, you know, if it's a choice between cuddling a puppy and catching a spider, I'm like, I'm gonna go after the puppy like it is.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  You don't want a you don't want a tarantula on your face at night?

• 10:43Speaker 01

  No, yeah, it's one of those things. Like I had a I had a scary incident as a kid. My dad and I were catching, looking for snakes. We saw a baboon spider, which is like the African, you know, toxic aggressive version of of a tarantula. And it scared the daylights out of me and that stuck with me, you know, my whole life. And and once I became older and I understood the mechanics of spiders, because, you know, now it's not a phobia anymore. It's just like I don't want to work with them. The reason I I'm I don't like working with them in, you know, in my current form is they're really fragile. Like if a tarantula falls two or three inches, it will die. It actually split his abdomen. So I'm very with animals, I'm either, you know, hands off or hands on. Like I'm either at a close distance, I know what they're gonna do, or if they're getting away. Grab them and handle them safely.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  And with a spider, that's really difficult, both for yourself and the spider. So it's one of those things where it's not so much a phobia anymore. Where I'm like, ah, spiders are so scary. But it's like, it's a real, you know, working knowledge of like, well, out of all the things, it's not, it's not, you know, I'd rather take a tiger onto a show than a tarantula, to be totally honest.

• 11:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow, interesting. What do you think creates fear for people? What do you think we have fear? Uh, why do you think? Do you think there's always an experience when we're younger that defines the fears we have for the rest of our lives? And how does one overcome it if they ever can?

• 12:05Speaker 01

  So, um, fear is interesting because, um, you know, Bill Hicks famously said, there's, there's only two emotions in the world, love and fear. And you, you, you go between those. And if you read, um, the Emerald Tablet of Thoth, who's Hermes Trismegustus, like one of the greatest thinkers of our mind. He said, in polarity, there's no positive or negative. It's all the same thing. So if you look at temperature, you don't have hot or cold. Everything is, you know, degrees of the same temperature. Everything's temperature. So if you look at love and fear, it's the, it's the same thing. You know, it's just a negative form of love. Um, so, so for me, fear is an, an sort of unsubstantiated love. It's a kind of a, a, a perverted form of love. And most of it comes from ignorance or misunderstanding.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  So, you know, a lot of people will fear things that they don't know. And that's a, you know, famous saying. And, and a lot of times, if you look at, um, how we're raised, um, we, we are programmed to fear certain things. Other things are, are, you know, ingrained in our DNA. So, so, you know, some of it's nature, some of it's nurture. But if you, you know, go back as far as the Bible, you know, people are, are bagging on snakes in the Bible, saying, you know, snakes were the reason for the downfall of humanity. It's like, well, if you want to program a child, you know, put, put it in potentially the most influential book in their, in their, you know, young life and have everyone say the snake is evil. And that's, that's a pretty good way to get a fear out of it. Um, other things like, uh, it's a really interesting experiment they did with kids is they showed.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Three year old kids stuffed um bear, lion, shark toys and then stuffed crocodile toys. And the children had an ingrained fear of crocodiles. And that's not a a a nurture thing, because not many people see crocodiles in their daily life. That's a nature thing where we've been predated upon up until this day by crocodiles and their ancestors. Um. So we we have a very functional working fear of crocodiles and that that makes sense. But most of our fears are parents, society, people that we're around. Um. Instill something in us that we don't understand. We never go, you know, further to further educate ourselves. On what that fear is. So it always is this dark enigma, you know, thing behind the the closet door that could kill us.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Um. The perfect example I draw is is people say that they're chased by snakes and um. I've been working with snakes for twenty thirty thirty years now. I've never been chased by a snake and I've done some pretty gnarly things with some pretty gnarly snakes. Um. And just this this past December, I got married in South Africa on New Year's Eve. And the day before I got married, a a black mamba went into our bar. And um and they they were like, when I arrived, like, don't kill any snakes, I'll catch him, I'll move him, don't worry. And they called me, they said, there's a snake in the bar, it's probably a mamba. So I was in, you know, flip flops and board shorts to the middle of summer in Africa. Went and caught the snake and brought it out and threw it on the grass. And I said to, there was probably thirty or forty local people there. I'm like. This is a black mamba, why isn't it chasing? Like, oh, no, you're doing something special. I'm like, no, it's a.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  It's a snake that once you pull it out of the darkness and you look at it, like, oh, you've got the same goals as I have. It's stay alive, you know, eat food, reproduce and be happy. Um. If you run it, run it with a shovel and start chopping it up, of course it's gonna bite you. And and come after you and strike at you. But if you ran up to a human and started hitting them with a shovel, it'll probably do the same thing. So it's it's all, for me at least, it's about education and that's kind of the. The TV show I did in Vegas, I'd finally had enough of people being like, snakes wanna chase you, snakes wanna kill you, you know, mambas will bite you, you know, sleep and rattlesnakes will hunt you down. Uh, and, and I pitched a show to, to Animal Planet a few years ago where I lived in that box in Vegas in full view of the public for ten days with a hundred snakes.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Um, with the biggest gnarliest snakes in the world, you know, puffetters, gaboon vipers, rattlesnakes, mambas, green and black mamba. Uh, you know, spitting cobras, all sorts of things to say, well, what's the worst snake you can imagine? Everyone's, oh, puffered, a gaboon viper or, or rattlesnake. I'm like, well, here I am walking around barefoot, you know, in a box where I have a shower, a laptop. Um, and full view of the public, like, these things should attack and kill me. And, and after ten days, I had people, you know, saying I'm cured. Like, I thought snakes would try and, we didn't even see a snake in there. I'm like, well, that's what they do. They make their living from being invisible. They got no business messing with human beings.

• 16:22Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So in this box, were they, they hiding and, and getting away from you? They weren't trying?

• 16:26Speaker 01

  We, we set it up. There, there were some hides, there were some trees, obviously a bed for me to sleep and, and a couple of snakes tried to get into the bed a few times. But it's, it's one of those, you know, once, once you understand, like, once you, like, look at the world through a snake's eyes, and it's really easy because they've got such a simple brain. Is, uh, you know, they wanna be warm, they wanna eat, they wanna reproduce. And that's, that's ultimately it. That's the same reptilian brain we share with them. That's, that's the core driving, you know, ethos to them. Um, their venom is expensive to make if they are venomous. It's, it's like a complex protein that takes energy. It's like, if you make something, you're not just gonna throw it at a bird flying by, throw it at a car as it goes by. They, they preserve that and they'll bite usually as a, like, last defense.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Um, usually they use what's cryptus, cryptus and confusion, which is they either look like something else or they don't look like anything at all. So, uh, you know, a snake, a snake tries to make itself invisible. Um, you know, it tries to make itself, like, get away, so it tries to escape, then it will strike, like fake strike, and then it will actually strike. Um, they got no interest in killing or eating humans. It's, it's a waste of an expensive protein. Um, and they, you know, they just, I, I've, I've tried it, I've done it, you know, I've been bitten by snakes and that was my fault. But for the most part, if you see a snake in the wild, and we, we saw a bunch of mambas in the last few weeks, uh, they just run away. You know, the only time that they don't is when they're cornered and then they freak out because they're cornered. It's no different to a house cat or a dog. Um. So it's really easy to understand. Once you start researching these things.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Um. Sharks are another really good one. People think sharks are coming straight for us. The the human mind has a an issue, you know, working out probability. And that's, you know, you you think, oh, I'm gonna get eaten by a shark. You've got a one in four hundred thousand chance of being eaten by a shark. You've got a one in fifty thousand chance, that's ten times as likely of being executed by the states of California. Uh. One in five hundred thousand chance of being hit by an asteroid. So you're almost as likely as being hit by an asteroid as by eaten by a shark, but you can get hit by an asteroid anywhere in the world. But people still think sharks are coming straight for you. So it's it's a weird human dilemma, being in this place where, you know, we just can't, you know, can't process the probability of something that's gonna hurt us.

• 18:36Lewis Howes?

  When we're in an experience uh of a dangerous animal, or let's say a venomous or an animal that could attack and harm us, what is the thing that we should do? Should and couldn't they can they sense the fear like people say they sense fear?

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Um. I think, and this is a a working hypothesis, I think, you know, just like everything that animals are vi- vibratory creatures and they pick up on vibes, like getting too new age and hippie and all that. But um the best way to describe vibrations is is the way you and I are communicating right now is is, you know, vocal or audio vibrations. Um. So if you if you think of fear as a like, oh, God, I'm so scared, that that's not necessarily it. But if your vibration changes from one of, you know, just, you know, not not understanding anything to attack and kill, the animals can definitely sense that. Um. You know, you you can see it so, so blatantly with dogs. If you stand up and reach down to touch a dog, oftentimes they won't like it because flip the the paradigm around, you're suddenly got this, you know,

• 19:35Speaker 01

  twenty foot four foot tall creature reaching for your face. It's not it's not exactly cool. Drop to your knees, put your head down and touch the dog on the bottom of its chest and you'll see its entire demeanor change. And obviously, we've got a longer relationship with dogs than we do with other animals. But the understanding that vibratory thing is is a big, big one. Um. And you can feel it with humans. You know, you walk into a room of humans and there's someone that's just weird and and I can feel it. I'm like, oh, that's that's a strange, you know, energy. And whether it's the person is, you know, on their own rant or or very self-absorbed or whatever it is, you you can definitely feel that. So when it comes to dangerous creatures, I think of it in in two ways. It's like. What do they want out of the situation? How can I view the situation through their eyes?

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Um, and then when, you know, everything goes amiss, which is, you know, elephant charging you, lion charging you and all that. Then the, then the opposite becomes true. Whatever you wanna do, you wanna give off a, a, a vibration or.

• 20:31Lewis Howes?

  Scream or.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, be, be, don't run. Uh, uh, like that's the, the funniest thing and you never run away from a dangerous animal. Uh, we're, we're some of the slowest moving creatures in the world. Um, and, and definitely in the savannah, we're, we're, we are the slowest moving creatures next to tortoises. So, um, you know, it's one, one of those things where if an animal charges you, if you run, you get its attention even more. And I've, I've worked with big cats where you'll be laying with them, playing with them, they're all mellow. And you turn around and run away and they can't help but charge you and grab you. Uh, because it's built into their DNA, you know, creature, creature running, I must chase. And you can see this with dogs and, you know, normal how, uh, pet dogs very, very well. If a kid runs away, dogs are just, you know, it's ingrained in them to chase it.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  So dangerous situations, you know, uh, I, I look at them, you know, sort of in, in time quanta. You know, what can I do immediately? What can I do in the next few seconds? What can I do in the next, you know, few minutes? Um, and, and oftentimes you can change the whole situation by what you're doing right now. And I think, um, you know, the, the biggest thing is not panicking. You know, panic is, is, is one of those, you know, overreactions to fear that it, it, it often doesn't make you do the right thing. So, um, usually with, with deadly animals, whatever I think I should do, I do almost exactly the opposite. So if I think I should run, I stand still. You know, if I think I should be quiet, I make myself loud.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Like there's, there's all these things that are totally counter to what we think is okay, that really, really help. Um, you know, with, with snakes, it's a really easy one. If there's a deadly snake, you take a step back, it's not deadly anymore. It's like pretty easy to deal with. Um, so, so that's, that's my, my general thing on, on deadly animals. Um, but with, you know, other situations like base jumping and skydiving and motorcycles and, and all that. You know, the, the general mantra of, of, you know, panic slowly is, is a really good one. Because generally when you start panicking, freaking out and moving quickly and doing, you know, it, it, it never works out well. Usually, usually it's pretty bad.

• 22:30Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. What's one of the scariest moments you've had with animals?

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Um, it's scary.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  Where you were like, oh crap, like this is really, this is really bad. I don't know how I got on this one.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, okay. Well, there is one. It was it was a kind of a lonely one, too. I was bitten by a snake in in in Africa. Um. It was a research animal and I was it was an American snake. That I was working with in South Africa and it bit me really badly on one hand and I immediately knew it was really bad. So. I put a tourniquet on, which you shouldn't do um in most snake bites. I know the deal, so so it was a different situation. But I torniquated, went to the hospital, wrote down what bit me. I wrote down my doctor's name and I collapsed. I woke up uh three days later in ICU with urinary catheter on a on a ventilator. Um naked in the ICU. Yeah, I'd I'd been on the ventilator for three days. And the story goes that. I drove there, parked my car on the curb, left the door open, ran inside, uh collapsed, they tube me.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  And then drove me to another hospital that had a ventilator. And a friend of mine was driving past the hospital and saw my car parked on the the curb. And he's like, huh, that's not good. Goes inside and they they thought I was dead. Like, I I collapsed and stopped breathing. So. You know, my family found out about it. They all came to visit me and and three days later, they they used some experimental antivenom and I woke up. Um and I could breathe, but every time I fell asleep, I'd stop breathing. And that was one of those situations. I'm like, man, this is this is not good. You know, this is not a a good place to be. But, you know, in in surviving that and in it teaches you such a huge lesson. And you're like, okay, well. Tomorrow's not promised. You know, you're not invincible. You need to, you know, be a little bit safer. You need to understand these things a little bit better.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  So you're never in that situation again. So that that was probably the gnarliest experience for me. Um. The gnarliest experience where things went really well was probably that elephant um encounter we had last year. That was was really, it was one of those, you know. Hectic situations that went from really good to really bad to really good within the course of about ten seconds. So you didn't really have time to to process how bad things are going because it turned out so well. What happened? We were in Kenya, working with Kenya Wildlife Services, who manages one of the biggest wild areas in Africa, the Savo National Reserve, which is famous for elephants and man-eating lions. That movie Ghost in the Darkness was based on the Savo elephants.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  So we were there, working with them. There's a massive elephant-rhino poaching situation going on in Africa, essentially. You know, elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks. So we're out there filming what the work that these guys were doing, and this elephant had a poisoned arrow in its knee. So the host of the show that we produce, Dominic Monahan, we went and dodged the elephant, fixed it, found the arrow, pulled the arrow out, recovered the animal, and was having a hard time getting up. So it was one of those situations, everyone got, you know, off the ground, cleared the area, they reversed the animal and couldn't stand up. And, and, you know, in, in the hot temperatures and the African sun, you want to make sure this creature moves,

• 25:38Speaker 01

  because, you know, if it doesn't, it's gonna die. So we went back, tied a strap to its tusk to pull it up, so to help it on its way. And in doing that, you know, the crew got closer and closer, just started inching in. And I saw this happening, and then eventually I was like, yeah, this is way, this is way too close. So I started walking in to tell them to get back. As I got within about six feet of them, the elephant jumped up and stormed the cameraman. And it was one of those situations where he started standing up, so everyone turned to run, and, and the elephant just fixated on the cameraman, like just saw him, and he, you look at it from the elephant's point of view, he's walking around, he's been hit by a poisoned arrow in his knee, his knee is rotting off by humans, and he knows it's humans. And then suddenly he falls asleep, wakes up, and he's surrounded by humans again, and he thinks he's being killed.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  So we're running away, and the cameraman, because he's carrying a big camera, is like lagging behind. And, and I'm running, I get to the getaway car, which is our, you know, planned point of rendezvous, and as I'm getting close, the guard points AK-47 at my face. I'm like, oh, this isn't good, like, mm-mm, this isn't part of the plan. And as I look back, I see our cameraman fall and go basically fetal. Like what I saw is he balled up, and I was like, oh, man. And in running, the audio, say what?

• 26:54Lewis Howes?

  Is that the worst thing you can do? Go fetal, or what?

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Um, well, at that point, no, I mean, it's it's just, uh, uh, you don't wanna be fetal in front of a charging bull elephant. Like, it was one of those things where where we're running and you can just hear the elephant stomping behind you, cause it's an elephant, you know? And then it trumpeting, it's it felt like an anxiety dream when as you, the the faster you're running, the closer it's getting. And it's it, this is happening like, and in the footage, the footage is shot on an iPhone because our executive producer was in the field, so it's really bad, but you get the gist of it. And I turned around and I see Frank fall and I'm like, man. So what went through my head is this guy's got an AK forty seven, he's gonna shoot the elephant, which if you, unless you're an absolute precise marksman with AK forty seven, you're not gonna kill an elephant, you're just gonna piss it off.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  So I'm like, okay, Frank's dead, the elephant's getting hit by an AK, now there's twenty odd people in the field with the getaway cars leaving. I'm like, this is gonna be a massacre, like this is, this elephant's gonna kill people until it gets stopped, you know, and I don't see anyone with an elephant gun, everyone's got AK forty sevens. So I turned around and I ran back to the elephants, you talk about these vibrational things. Um, I ran back to the elephants and I saw Frank, I'm like, okay, well, if I can get to Frank, that's awesome, but Frank's probably dead. Um, so I started screaming to get the elephant's attention and ran up and, um. We stopped about two or three feet away from each other and I'll never forget because, yeah, I I stopped between his tusks. And he stopped looking at me and and his eyes were about two feet above the top of my head.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Um, and, you know, minutes before I'd been rubbing him and like filming him and like telling him that he's gonna be okay. And we stopped and I I stopped and I like, I'm gonna cuss now and and it's it's it's a, uh, uh, just because that's what happened. And and I said to him, you get the F out of here. And like, I I it's in the audio, like, I basically had a conversation, I'm like, dude, you need to leave, like, these guys are gonna shoot you. And he stopped, he looked at me and he almost sighed and turned around and walked away. And I was like, wow, that's that's interesting and the the footage and the stills, I'm standing between his tusks with my hand between his eyes, like, and. Uh, it was one of those, uh, those afterwards, I was like, sure.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  And I spoke to Frank, I'm like, Frank, you okay? He's like, yeah. Um, the audio guy had tripped and grazed his knee, so I put some antibiotic ointments on his knee. And then we kind of, you know, decompressed and shook it off. And then we watched the footage and was like, it's kind of like I remembered it. I ran up, when we stopped, a dust hit each other. So like full on cartoon style where your cloud of dust, like, you know, his cloud of dust hit me, my cloud of dust hit him. And I'll never forget, because when he was laying on the ground, his tusks were so big, they were as tall as I was standing, and I'm six foot one. So laying down, so you can imagine sideways, he had a six foot gap and I was standing in that six foot gap. So that was one of those situations where

• 29:39Speaker 01

  I think, you know, if, if I'd thought about that, then it would have been too late. Like my, my, my gut is run away. So I'm like, well, the only thing left to do is run towards. This running away thing is obviously not working. Plus, you know, having a guy point a gun in your face is really good incentive to turn around and run the other way.

• 29:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:58Lewis Howes?

  Is that video online?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, um, it's actually in the episode a lot better because, um, the video I've got online, I sent you a link to it. It's just an iPhone video. Um, in the episode, in this wild things episode, you actually see the whole, you know, going out, finding the elephant, darting him, fixing his knee, and then the aftermath. Yeah. But it's, um, yeah, the afterwards, and you know, we found out this is after we, we had this happen. Uh, this elephant's name's Jacob. He's been living in the area for forty odd years. Everyone knows him. Uh, they've been poached so heavily in Savo that they've actually been going into this little area where people go and, um, you know, stay. It's like a little, uh, hotel area and breaking down the walls to get inside because they figure that they're safe inside there, that they're not safe out in the savanna.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  And like, you hear that, you're like, man, it shot in front of me. Uh, it would have been one of the most terrible, if Frank had died in front of me, it would have been the most terrible situations ever. But, you know, it was, it, it was, you know, kind of follow your heart without being too hippie and new age. But it seemed to make the most sense. I'm like, I don't want the elephant to get hurt. I don't want Frank to get hurt. If I'm, you know, if I'm pretty certain that this is the reason I'm doing it, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get hurt. Um, and, and it worked out.

• 31:08Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. Now, do you think, uh, and we're gonna, I'm gonna have that linked up, uh, on the show notes as well for people, because that's incredible. So thanks for sharing that story. Do you think someone can conquer their fears? Or do you think you can conquer all of your fears? Or do you just have to learn how to push through the uncomfortableness?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Um, I think anyone can conquer any fear, but it's it's up to it's a personal, you know, personal choice thing. Um, if if someone has a fear and they they sort of attached to that fear and it's better for them to to use that than to to educate themselves. I think that that's a that's a personal choice. But um, you know, I I'm scared of heights as most human beings are. And um, you know, I've I've base jumped a bunch of times and and that was interesting because the scariest part is right before you do it. Once you do it, then everything's fine. It's almost like a release. So you're like, oh, wow, that's great. Even before the parachute opens, like this is the best feeling in the world, you know. So I think anyone can can get themselves through through any fear. It's just if they want to do it. It's like anyone can get in shape, but it's, you know, you

• 32:12Speaker 01

  can't force a person go go to gym. It's either a choice. I I guess it's down to intention. If someone's really intent on conquering a fear, I think anything's possible. And and I think that the answer is through through, you know, education, understanding what they're scared of.

• 32:26Lewis Howes?

  You think it's also just practicing it, like facing the fear and then doing it over and over while you're educating yourself? Or is there another process?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Some sometimes immersion is the best thing, you know. I've I've found that if if a person is scared of snakes, sometimes just like having a snake around their neck is like one of those things where like, oh, oh, yeah, this is not that I expected to be wet and slimy and kill me. And you're like, oh, it's and and that's, you know, wherever I go, I try and educate people on at least snakes because they they're pretty ubiquitous. Um, but but a lot of fears are are they, once they pulled out into the lights and examined warts and all, they aren't that bad. You know, we we just, it's a it's a mental cage for ourselves to be like, oh, I can't do that. That's way too scary.

• 33:10Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Do you think it's the fear of it of of whatever we're doing that makes things more exciting? Or can something be super exciting without having the fear of it?

• 33:23Lewis Howes?

  What's the right question?

• 33:24Speaker 01

  A lot of, no, you're asking the wrong person. A lot of that is just kind of fear based. And I think, you know, it's, it's, you know, understanding, you know, how our bodies work, you know, chemically is, is an interesting one. Because everyone's like, you're adrenaline addicts. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm like, adrenaline is the unfun one. If we're gonna go down to like how your body reacts. Adrenaline, you know, makes you all fidgety and irritable and, and fast reactions and dilated pupils and, and like basically fight or flight. I'm like, I hate that.

• 33:56Lewis Howes?

  That was like, that was like the elephant's, the elephant story.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  I'm like, I, I, that's not where I want to be. Like, I, I like the, the opposite of that. You know, if you look at it as a gas and brakes analogy, the, the gas is adrenaline, which, you know, is the scary one. And then dopamine is the brakes, which slows you down. It's the reward hormone. It's called the, you know, the, the hug hormone. When, when you get hugs and give hugs, it's how you feel. It's a sense of accomplishment. That's more what I'm attached to. So, so bathing in fear is, is not necessarily where I go. It's sometimes a side effect or, or, you know, it's a, it's a knockoff of, of these, these accomplishments that I do. But obviously, if you, you know, if you're working with a, a, a house cat or you're working with a tiger, there's certainly a lot more, you know, sense of accomplishment once you finish working with a tiger.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  But I think a decent amount of fear in, in someone's life is, is probably a good thing. And not necessarily fear, maybe, maybe the unknown. And, and people often, they fear change. They fear, you know, breaking status quo. You know, the human condition is we want consistency, yet seek new experiences. So we want, we want everything to stay the same, but we want change. And that's the duality of it. And, and, you know, you know, if we just care on doing what we're doing, we'll get what we've always got, which is fine for some people. But sometimes it's going to a new gym or meeting a new person or striking up a conversation with someone you normally never would. Um, or jumping off a mountain, or, you know, swimming with sharks. Um, you know, as a collective consciousness, the things that we're doing in the last five years

• 35:26Speaker 01

  have totally blown away what human evolution's done before that. Um, you know, people are able to go from not having ever done anything athletic to, to, you know, being world-class wingsuit base jumpers in two years. Like, this collective consciousness thing is, is absolutely amazing. We've got kids at thirteen years old doing things on skateboards Tony Hawk still can't do. And you're like, well, what is this? You know, how, how is that even possible? So fear, you know, is justified. You know, obviously, we still find out mortal human beings and we can die. But at the same time, we're doing things that, you know, up until a year ago, or two years ago, or five years ago, were impossible. I just saw a kid do a, a front flip on a motorcycle down in New Zealand, um, for Nitro Circus.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  And, and, you know, up until ten years ago, backflips were almost impossible. Now guys are doing frontflips. They look, they look physically impossible. You look at it and you're like, this is, how is this even possible in this reality? And, and kids are doing it.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  Insane. What, what do you think drives you to push the limits of physical and mental, mental performance and endurance?

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Um, anytime people say I can't do something, it's a, it's like, you know, uh, red, red flag ball kind of thing. I, I think that we, we get most accomplished and we accomplish most when we resonate with our true potential. And if, if our true potential is doing one thing our whole life and becoming absolute, you know, samurai, the absolute master, that's fine. But I, I feel like there's a lot of people out there that are, you know, going out and, and experiencing a lot of things and trying to resonate to that highest frequency. Um, and that's, that's it for me. I, I wanna experience the world from as many different points of view as possible. Um, and if that means I have to have four or five different, you know, lives I live in, you know, it's absolutely perfect.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  But, you know, having a, uh, the, there's an old proverb, you know, if you wanna see the whole world, look at through, look at it through everyone's eyes. And it's, it's totally true. If, if I, you know, understand the world from a person who lays carpets to a guy who does motorcycle repairs, to a guy that, you know, busses food and then jumps out of planes, and then, you know, there's a P A on a, on a set, and there's a host on a set, you, you, you understand the world so much better, rather than this myopic sort of, oh, this is, you know, the world according to Donald, or this is the world according to Donald and all his friends.

• 37:40Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. I'm curious to think about, you know, we had a conversation in Austin about this, about some of your friends who have had near-death experiences, who have died, some of your friends have died, working with animals and working with, you know, venomous snakes and different, different things in the wild. And you also mentioned that there are some people who you think are a little reckless in this kind of extreme animal caring field. One in particular, the lion whisperer, which I think he's awesome. And I love, like, I love the photos and videos and things he does. I'm like, dude, this is amazing. Like, who wouldn't want to like snuggle with a, you know, a tiger or a lion or whatever, you know? And

• 38:25Lewis Howes?

  what is it about some of these people who have, I guess, slipped up and made these mistakes where it's been fatal for them? I want to, what I want to talk about in this moment is how to get in the flow and the zone. Because I feel like as an athlete, as an entrepreneur, when I'm speaking, flow is the most valuable, I guess, asset that I can have or tap into in order to get the best out of my performance in the moment. And it sounds like all the different things that you do, you know, base jumping, skydiving, motorcycles, everything you do, you've got to be in flow, otherwise you're going to get hurt. Otherwise, you're going to get bit or something fatal could happen.

• 39:07Lewis Howes?

  So I'm trying to figure out the best way to ask this question, but I want to talk about flow, how you get in, how you get into it? And why is, are people not in flow when fatal things happen?

• 39:18Speaker 01

  So it's a combination of things because I've, you know, through, through base jumping, a lot of my friends have died, a lot more than certainly in animals. And that's a, it's a rough one, actually. I lost a friend about 10 days ago in Michigan that died, yeah. And it's, it's, you know, it's not unforeseen, you know, if you're jumping off of a, you know, 2,000-foot rock with some fabric and trying to fly inches above the ground, there's, there's a certain attrition rate, which is understandable. But the flow thing is a really interesting one. I was very much Of this world and thought that, you know, everything happens when I make it happen and and that's it. And that's a very, you know, sort of childish point of view because you

• 40:00Speaker 01

  understand the whole universe, you know, talk about vibration, talk about flows and waves and that, it works in that. And either you can be in the flow and and surf the wave just like a surfer, or you can try and force a wave when there's no surf and then you end up paddling a hell of a lot and looking like an idiot. And that's certainly the the way it goes with with everything I do. I try and be in flow as much as possible. Intuition is is a huge thing that people have turned their minds and their backs and their their entire lives on. If I don't feel something, I'll just walk away. I've been on on exit points, I've been working with animals where I'm like, I'm not feeling it. And, you know, this animal's not going anywhere, the mountain's not going anywhere, you know, this the the shoot is not worth it. Like, there's no video that's worth my life. I'd

• 40:42Speaker 01

  rather walk walk away than than do it. And then, you know, the other big thing that that comes into statistics, you know, I talked about probability and shark attacks. You know, there's a certain, there's a certain safe level where you do things. And then there's that, you know, sort of chance level where there's a chance things will go wrong. And when you talk about, you know, working with animals, if you're, you know, shooting ten episodes of a show a year, that's fine. When you start shooting twenty, then you're doubling the chance of being hurt. And you start doing additional things while you're doing that, that that increases the chances of, you know, taking it back to the shark analogy, if you're swimming in the ocean in in Southern California, you're probably safe. If you're swimming in the ocean at sunset in Florida in murky water, you're

• 41:24Speaker 01

  like, well, then your then your probability's gone through the roof. And that's not the shark's fault, that's your fault. Like, you've chosen this. So if you're working with a deadly animal and you're tired in, you know, a difficult situation, that's when it gets gnarly. And if you're doing a lot of, you know, dangerous things, then statistically it goes up. So, you know, guys have been hurt with working with dangerous animals. It's a combination of bad luck, which which sounds terrible because, you know, we have no control over luck. You know, like, Irwin is a perfect example, being hit by a stingray, like, that's, you you couldn't script that. Like, if someone told me that as a as a Hollywood script, it's just not plausible. You know, then you have um people getting complacent, which it's difficult to do because you work with animal after animal and every animal's getting, you know.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  You you're learning that flow more and more. And then one day you're going into your normal flow with an animal. And this animal's got no experience with human beings, or got no experience with you or your situation. And you take a liberty that this this animal's not okay with and it bites you. You know, if my little wiener dog has a bad day, he growls at me. If I'm working with an orca and has a bad day, it kills you. Yeah. Um. So that's where the the difference comes into it. But if I walk into a situation and things don't feel quite right. I'm like, okay, what is what is wrong? Is this is this me? Is it someone else? Is this the situation? Like, why am I not feeling this? Um. And if I can't quantify it and say, now, I I I can just be like, I'm I'm not doing it. Like, it just doesn't.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  You know, and and I always think of things, funnily enough, from the the the um from the point of view of testifying in court. Well, your honor, it seemed like a great idea at the time, you know, like we were we're on the exit point and it's windy and it's about to start raining, but we've done a two hour hike. So we are up here, so we might as well just try and jump because otherwise we have to hike back down. And then, you know, in retrospect, you're like, why, why? It's not even an option, you know, that these perceived pressures are not not even. They they're not real, so. Worth a TV show. It's not worth. No, it's not worth a video. Like, we've become so, and especially in the base jumping world. People have become so obsessed with the video or the selfie or the still or it's like, well, what about the experience? Like, it it changes the entire experience when you bring cameras into it.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  So, you know, instead of me going at ninety percent, which is what I usually do, soon as cameras are there, I dial it back to seventy five percent to give some sort of a a a buffer area. Um. And then if there's more variables, I dial it back more and more and more. And and a lot of guys that get hurt, um. You know, especially in extreme sports stuff, it's codec courage. You know, I've had friends die uh trying to get a shot, you know, trying to film someone. They're not looking where they're going and they fly into a wall. Um. And that and that's for for a video, it's just it's just not worth it, you know? Have you ever backed out on a a jump? Many times, many, many times. I I'd say um towards the end of my career, because I I quit base jumping about a year and a half ago.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  It was a it was a rough time. Um just before that, seven of my friends had died in seven days, or seven guys had died in seven days. Three of them were friends of mine. Um and then, you know, it was one of those things where the the circle got smaller and smaller. At first with base jumping, you hear about someone dying, and then you know a guy that dies, and you know a guy well that dies, and then one of your friends dies. And then two of my my best men from my wedding, both of them got really badly hurt. They probably should both should have died. And and I was like, oh, this is not, this is not good. Many amount of time. Yeah, it's not, it's not an accident, you know. So um I um decided to to to back out of base jumping. And it was the best decision that's happened because we've lost so many uh friends. You still do sky.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I still do skydiving. Um I still do skydiving and and and one of the things I'm doing now is is wingsuit proximity flying out of helicopters. So um you know, I'd cost benefit analysis, I um looked at what's the most deadly thing in base jumping, and it's usually the accident. You know, you jump off a rock and you try and start to get flying, and it takes about three or four seconds. Um and if you don't, then you often hit the rock, and that's where most of my friends have been dying. So I was like, well, I can do this out of a helicopter, do all the things I still want to do. It's still dangerous because it's, you know, proximity flying, but you're taking out the most dangerous variable. And um I get to still do all the amazing things I want, you know, still still flying like you're in a dream, you know, flying over hillsides and through trees and over grassy meadows and that.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  So, you know, kind of looked at where the where the benefit was, where the biggest cost was, and and alleviated that, and it it seemed to make sense. And and um, you know, it's it's as as you get older, you know, the the the the juice has to be worth the squeeze. And I think with base jumping, it's it's one of those situations, like most things in life, it's just very apparent base jumping, where you're sitting down at a table, putting all the chips on the table, and you're like, okay, cool, let's go. And it's. And people don't realize like the small things that they do that are like that, like getting in a car or texting or, you know, things where they're like, okay, he has all the chips. And if this works out, I get a small benefit, but if it doesn't, I lose everything. And that's, that's a, when you start looking at it like that, it definitely changes your perspective.

• 46:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm interested, when I was in college, I did an internship at a life insurance company. And I became licensed to sell life insurance back then. And you basically do everything against what you're supposed to do to get a good premium for life insurance. So I'm curious, do you have a policy or even insurable? And if so, what is your premium?

• 46:44Speaker 01

  It's, it's interesting that, that you ask that because like insurance, I think some of the stuff that they just don't get, like through, through production insurance, I'm insured for all of this. And, and one of the things that they're gnarliest about, believe it or not, is scuba diving. But the rest of the stuff, you know, obviously don't play up the, the level, but I'm like, yeah, skydiving, wingsuiting.

• 47:04Lewis Howes?

  Shark diving.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wildlife expert, yeah.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just not giving, you know, more information, but that's, that's pretty much it. And one of the things I did too is I stopped riding motorcycles on the street. I just ride motorcycles on the track and, you know, it's one of those, where, where's, where do you get the most benefit from it? Where can you push the hardest safely? You know, what is the, the real, like, i- is it, is it more fun riding down the four or five, you know, in, in rush hour? Or is it more fun riding on a track in full levers with a medic standing by? It's like, well, obviously on the track, so why not, why not just do that?

• 47:39Lewis Howes?

  That's funny. Well, it's good to know you are insurable. What is your, what does your wife think about all this? And how does it play in your relationship with you being gone? You know, you traveled, you know, six to 12 months at a time, doing these adventures and experiences and filming and traveling all over the world. What is her, you know, connection with you like when you're gone? And how does that affect the decisions you make?

• 48:06Speaker 01

  It affects him greatly and, and, you know, we, we've been dating, we just got married in December, but we've been dating for what will be five years, would have been five years this March. And when, when we met, you know, I was already wingsuiting, I was already base jumping, I was already working with animals. She actually worked at the company I was working at in post-production on one of the shows I was producing. So we met at work and, you know, through the production offices, posters of me and, and all sorts of things. Cause we had done a bunch of shows. Uh, so she thought I was a typical Hollywood, you know, sort of

• 48:39Speaker 01

  hosting douchebag kind of dude. And, you know, I had a Ducati, I had a Porsche, which, which is totally unlike me. Like the, the Porsche had camo car seats and the Ducati was a track bike. Like it, it was weird because she had this perception of me. Um, and I, I'm totally not like that. I just, I like doing fun things. And as we started dating, it got more and more serious. And then she, she realized that, you know, that I do certain things, I take a certain amounts of risk, but everything's calculated. And as we started dating, you know, the risks became more calculated, less sort of random. Um, and, and sort of more, I want to say work-based, like doing less things just, just to do them and doing more things for, for a real purpose.

• 49:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Uh, so I did an interview with, with Men's Health a few years ago where it said, uh, I said to the, the reporter that once I get married, I'll stop base jumping and once I have kids, I'll stop wingsuiting. Um, but yeah, it came to a point about a year and a half ago where I was like, the base jumping isn't, it's not like it's going to get that much better. Um, I feel like I passed the, you know, the, the meaty part of the, the bell curve. And like, it's just, you know, sort of tiny little improvements now and it's just not worth it. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. So I quit that and, you know, the other things, you know, standing about to do something, you ask yourself, you know, is, is it worth it? Is it worth, you know, playing for all the marbles? And, and that's, that's not a fear thing. I guess that's an experience thing. Uh, a guy once said that, you know, when you start base jumping, and this is true for, for life,

• 50:05Speaker 01

  you know, you have two jars, uh, one's empty, one's full. Um, and the, the empty one is experience and the full one is, uh, luck. And every time you do something, you take one, you know, coin out of the, the, the luck jar and you put into the experience jar. And at some point you're going to be really, really experienced, but you're going to run out of luck. Um, so, so my, my feeling is before I run out of luck, I try and just tap out on, on some of these things.

• 50:30Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. I want to ask you a couple of final questions before we wrap it up.

• 50:36Lewis Howes?

  What is the most interesting thing you've learned about yourself throughout this entire journey of life?

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Um, we get exactly what we want. Um, sometimes only what we, what we want, but what we need. Um, and there's a big difference. So, you know, a couple of times I've been standing on a helicopter skid over, you know, a mountain somewhere about to jump off scared out of my, my, my, you know, sort of living being and asking myself, why am I there? And it hits me like a ton of bricks. It's because like you wanted this, like you, you, you made this happen. I guess this didn't happen by accident. It wasn't like you're walking down a passageway somewhere and you turn right and you're on a helicopter skid. So I, I, I think that, you know, we get, you know, as beings, we manifest everything that we sometimes want and sometimes need. And, and, you know, if we want something really badly, doesn't mean it's gonna necessarily it's gonna happen.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  But, but if we need something, oftentimes those lessons will reveal themselves.

• 51:28Lewis Howes?

  That's a great one. I like that. What is next for you in your journey? And is there anything you won't try?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Um, next for me, we're doing this amazing documentary about PTSD, um, and, uh, using ayahuasca to, to treat it. Um, and we've been working on this for the last six months or so, and we, we're in production for the next 18 months or so. So that's going to be a big one. Um, and that's a departure from what I usually do. Um, you know, I feel like as a, as a human being, I went out and explored the whole world. You know, I wanted to see everything, experience everything, try everything, do everything, you know, um, touch everything. Um, and after, you know, whatever it's been 37 years of, of doing that, um, I, I reached a point where I'm like, oh, okay, that, that's cool. And I think I have a working, you know, hypothesis for the outside world. Now what's inside?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Um, and so doing a lot more research into, into, you know, the, the evolution, uh, the evolution of human beings based on antigen. So, so sacred medicines like mushrooms and ayahuasca and peyote and all that. Um, and that led me down a path to, um, some people that are doing amazing work using ayahuasca to treat PTSD in war veterans. So that's, that's kind of my next big thing is we, we, um, doing a documentary about PTSD war veterans getting treated with sacred medicine.

• 52:48Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. That's pretty cool.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then what I won't do, um, I won't do, I, I won't do, I guess the, the best way to put this outside and conceited because I, I hate. There's there's friends of mine, you know, beige jumpers will be like, oh, I can't believe people have a nine to five job and sit behind a desk. They're such idiots. I'm like, well, that's not an idiotic point of view. That's just someone else's point of view. And I I could see myself doing that. But I think, um, you know, one of the things I won't do is settle, you know, I won't settle for something just because it's what I have, you know, I I some of the most amazing things have come to me when I'm sitting on a sidewalk, broke, you know, no nothing on the horizon, feeling like the whole world's turned its back on me. I'm like, oh, it can't get any worse than this. Um, and that's when the most amazing

• 53:34Speaker 01

  things happen. So so I'll never I'll never settle. I I don't think I'll ever, um, you know, be happy to just be like, I'm always going to be happy, but I'm always going to strive for the for the best.

• 53:45Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I like that. Yeah, I think, uh, you know, guys like me and you, we have we have unconventional lives and careers, let's say. I mean, yours is a little more unconventional than mine, but mine is not the typical nine to five. And I and then when I speak to people about this, it's not about like, you know, you're you're wrong or something, you're bad if you're or you're not living a fulfilled life, if you're living in that, if you're doing the nine to five. I think if you're doing the nine to five and you're going to after something you're passionate about and working with a bigger brand or cause or um, and there's a bigger mission that you're on board with than and that fulfills you, then cool, just make sure you're not settling for what you're up to. Um, if it's kind of the the quote unquote conventional way of going about it.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:24Lewis Howes?

  But I think, you know, if, you know, some people like that. They like the structure. They like having a team that they get to be around constantly and they like to have a bigger mission that they're part of. So nothing wrong with it. It's just not, uh, you know, what guys like you and I do.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the the the easy way around that is to make your and and I took this from this podcast that we attended in in Austin, make your your um, passion your profession and it's not work, you know, then then you want to get up and you want to go to work and you you're stoked to do it. And rather than being, ah, I'm doing this again, this sucks.

• 54:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, don't settle for sure.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:56Lewis Howes?

  Um, okay, two final questions.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 54:58Lewis Howes?

  The first one is, what are you most grateful for in your life lately?

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Being alive, like, you know, the, it sounds so hippie cliche and, and, but like the, the idea that if you look at human evolution, four billion years to get our planet to where it is, whether you're a creationist or evolutionist or, or believe a bit of both like I am, like there's a, there's a grand mathematician behind all of this, making it happen. We're on a knife's edge, you know, we've, we've come through all this evolution to planet Earth, to go through all this evolution, to come to this point now where we are literally on a knife's edge. There's the most incredible things happening scientifically, spiritually, you know, mentally, people are doing things that we, we couldn't even imagine.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  And it's not like it's, uh, we know the outcome, you know, the world could implode. You know, we could die out, we could not, um, you know, there's all these, these amazing people doing amazing things. Um, and, and as long as you're, as long as you wake up in the morning and you're alive and you're breathing, there's still a chance. There's still a chance to do good, to make change, to, to see stuff, to, to influence the universe. Um, and, and that's, I, that's, it, it sounds really, really corny hippie, but the fact that I'm alive is, is, is no, you know, it, it's, it's, it's a huge gift and I'm, I'll never, ever take that for granted.

• 56:22Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Well, before I ask the final question, Donald, I want to acknowledge you really quickly for the courage that you have had your entire life, because even though it may not seem like courage to you in some senses, for everyone else, what you're doing is very courageous and brave, uh, to serve. You're serving animals and you're serving by educating humans on how to interact and, and, and live and experience with these animals. And also through, I acknowledge you for living a fulfilled life and chasing your dreams and, you know, jumping for everything that you want to go after, literally. And, uh, I think it's so cool that there are people

• 57:04Lewis Howes?

  like you who are examples of this in the world because there are, you know, ninety something percent of people probably aren't going after what they're, what fully makes them alive. And I can see that when I talk to you and connect with you and through watching your videos that you definitely go after what you want. And it's so refreshing to, uh, experience that and see that you're doing that. So, thank you.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Well, thanks much.

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  And I acknowledge you for that. Yeah. So the final question, this has been a phone interview and we're gonna have everything linked up in the show notes. I'll let people know what that is here in a second. We'll have videos with Donald doing crazy things all over the world. So make sure to check out those show notes and follow Donald everywhere. But the final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Um, well, Schrodinger, who, you know, famously did the whole alive, dead, cat sign out experiments and talks about superposition and all that. He, he said that the, the sum of the conscious minds of the world is one, of the universe is one. So we all share the same consciousness and that's, you know, echoed in religions and, you know, mythologies and all that. And I think the, the understanding is that we're all, you know, leaves on a tree, we're all the same tree, but we yet to have our exclusive, important, you know, unique experience. I think greatness isn't something you quantify based on someone else's frame of reference. I think greatness is accomplishing what you set out to do, you

• 58:33Speaker 01

  know, before you came here and set out to accomplish while you were here. And that isn't necessarily like, I want to cure cancer, I want to go to the moon. It's a day to day accomplishments of, you know, I'm gonna, you know, capitalize and, and do the most I can in this one day. Tomorrow's not promised, you know, yesterday's gone. I think greatness is each person, you know, resonating to their highest frequency and accomplishing as much as that they, they can do in their lifetime. And that's, that's greatness. Someone said that there's only two days a year you can't work and that's yesterday and tomorrow. And, and that's kind of the way I see it. And, and, you know, it's greatness isn't like, ah, one day I'm gonna climb Everest, one day I'm gonna do this, you know, it's a moment

• 59:16Speaker 01

  to moment's expression of happiness. Like that, that's truly enlightenment too. It's not, you know, not going to Tibet or Peru or, or, you know, meditating for 10,000 hours. It's the moment to moment's realization that this is, this is, this is a gift, this is amazing, this is great. And, and that's the way I try and, try and live my life, you know, not too much in the past, not too much in the future, really, really in the now. And then trying to make this now as amazing as it can be.

• 59:44Lewis Howes?

  I love that answer. Thanks so much, Donald. I appreciate you, man. And we'll have to bring you back on after your next adventure.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Thank you, Lewis. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I'd love to catch up in time.

• 59:58Lewis Howes?

  There you guys have it. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please go back to the show notes at lewishouse.com/131. There's gonna be some videos over there that you're gonna wanna check out of Donald doing some crazy things that we talked about. So make sure to check that out. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends. Again, lewishouse.com/131. And also, let me know, what is your biggest fear? So in the comments section below this episode, type in what your biggest fear is and what you learned about how to overcome fear from this episode. Again, big shout out to Donald. Make sure to follow him all over online and social media and see what his next adventure is and what he's up to.

• 1:00:42Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate you guys so much. We've got some awesome interviews coming up soon. If this is your first episode, make sure to subscribe to the podcast and start listening to some of the previous episodes. We've had some incredible people on this podcast. We just hit our two-year anniversary and we've got some great guests coming up. So again, thank you so much for coming on. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.