1039 An Uncomfortable Conversation With A Black Man w/Emmanuel Acho

"It wasn't enough to end segregation, we should've mandated integration."Today's guest is former pro athlete turned sports analyst, New York Times Best-Selling author, and host of the series, "Uncomfortable Conversations With A Black Man," which opened a virtual conversation with white America about race relations, racism, and educational and economic inequalities. Lewis and Emmanuel came together to talk about the work he’s been doing to start uncomfortable but necessary conversations about racial injustice issues in our society and the success that has come with it. This interview is filled with life lessons, tough questions, and advice for starting conversations about race. For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1039Check out Emmanuel Acho's website: https://uncomfortableconvos.com/Read his new book: https://static.macmillan.com/static/fib/emmanuel-acho/Kobe Bryant on Mamba Mentality, NBA Titles, and Oscars: https://link.chtbl.com/691-podKevin Hart Breaks Down His Secrets to Success: https://link.chtbl.com/956-podKatherine Schwarzenegger Pratt on the Power of Forgiveness: https://link.chtbl.com/925-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,039 with New York Times bestselling author and the uncomfortable conversations with a black man host, Emmanuel Acho.

• 0:10Emmanuel Acho?

  I'm gonna say this again, so people can let this sink in. It wasn't enough to outlaw segregation. We should have mandated integration if we really wanted to change our world.

• 0:21Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." And Oprah said, "Doing the best at this moment puts you in the best place for the next moment." My guest today is New York Times bestselling author Emmanuel Acho.

• 1:03Lewis Howes?

  In June 2020, Acho launched a video series titled Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, which opened a virtual conversation with white America about race relations, racism, and educational and economic inequalities. The show has exploded this year, reaching over 70 million views and widespread media coverage. This series has led to his own New York Times bestselling book under the same title. He's a former professional football player who is now a Fox Sports analyst and co-host of the show Speak For Yourself. He was also on Forbes 30 Under 30 list in 2018. He runs the nonprofit organization Living Hope Christian Ministries with his family as well.

• 1:47Lewis Howes?

  And I've been looking forward to talking with Emmanuel. And bringing him on the show to talk about his success and work he's been doing to start uncomfortable but necessary conversations about racial injustice issues in our society. Our conversation was extremely powerful for me and I believe it will help you in a massive way as well, no matter who you are on this planet. In this episode, we talk about why Emmanuel started talking publicly about race, the most uncomfortable conversations he's had in his life, why he hates the term reverse racism, the difference between color and culture, how uncomfortable conversations with a black man came to be even though there were so many obstacles, the difference between your

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  career and your calling, the difference between privilege and white privilege, what questions white people should be asking themselves to better understand racial issues, how to start a conversation about race with someone who is consciously or unconsciously racist, what white people should do with their privilege, and so much more. I thought we could have gone for hours, but I'm telling you, you need to share this with someone who you think would be inspired by it. Just copy and paste the link wherever you're listening or use the link lewishouse.com/1039 and text someone or post it on social media and make sure to tag me, Lewis Howes, and tag Emmanuel Acho as well over on Instagram as you're listening. Let me know what you enjoyed most about this at the end of this interview and in just

• 3:11Lewis Howes?

  a moment, the one and only Emmanuel Acho.

• 3:22Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greeners Podcast. Very excited about our guest Emmanuel Acho in the house, my man.

• 3:28Emmanuel Acho?

  My guy, it's good to see you.

• 3:29Lewis Howes?

  I am excited to have an uncomfortable conversation with a black man. We have a lot of similarities in our life. We both grew up in kind of predominantly white schools, then played professional football. You were much more talented than me. I played arena football, but I was one of the few white guys on the team in Alabama in the South.

• 3:49Emmanuel Acho?

  Okay.

• 3:50Lewis Howes?

  You also went from a white school to the NFL, which is mostly black culture.

• 3:54Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah.

• 3:55Lewis Howes?

  And what was the biggest culture shock for you, being a black person at a white school system, then being in black culture in the NFL?

• 4:03Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah, man. So my, my big really like white school system I speak of is high school. So I went to a private school from grades, it goes from grades one through 12. I went to this private school from grades five through 12. And so I show up and I'm like, Where are the black people at? So I show my graduating class, for example, bro. Uh, seventy-five people, like, three or four, five were black. And so, for me, I'm getting all the time, Emmanuel, you don't even talk like you're black, right? Emmanuel, you don't even dress like you're black. Or Emmanuel, you're like an Ori, you're black on the outside, white on the inside.

• 4:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:41Emmanuel Acho?

  And so I started to become confused, Louis, because I was like, wait a second. Maybe I'm not black. Because I remember, I'm Nigerian cultured. My parents born and raised in Nigeria. There's a difference, people, between color and culture. You can be black and be white cultured.

• 4:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:57Emmanuel Acho?

  You can be white and be black cultured. And we see it much less frequently, because America is a white world. So it's very hard to be white and live in an exclusive black world. But you can be black and live in an exclusive white world. Um, so I was questioning my own blackness, because everybody was like, oh, you're not that black. I'm like, I mean, I mean, I don't have a Band-Aid under my eye like Nelly. Um, so maybe I'm not that black. So then I got to college at Texas. And whilst Texas's campus is still white, my world is black. My college experience was black. Because we playing football. Eighty, ninety, ninety people on that roster that are black. Um, coaches, you know, besides your head coach, coaches, they black. Strength coach, black. Like, you know, my culture there is black. Then you get to the NFL, and the only difference there is now,

• 5:42Emmanuel Acho?

  it's the same black people, but now they have money. And so it's just like, it's the, it's culture on steroids.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:49Emmanuel Acho?

  Uh, not literally, but figuratively speaking, on steroids. And so, there were so many transitions for me, bro. Like, I was so confused when I got to college. It was, it was a wild time.

• 6:00Lewis Howes?

  Did you ever feel like you needed to become, you needed to do things to fit in more in college or the NFL? In that black culture that you weren't doing from growing up or high school?

• 6:11Emmanuel Acho?

  That's a good question, bro.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  We're like, oh. I'm just putting out there, guys are getting more tattoos. I feel like I gotta get a tattoo. Guys are whatever, doing their hair a certain way. I gotta do my hair a certain way.

• 6:21Emmanuel Acho?

  That's good. No, but I felt like I could finally be me. Okay, I didn't, I didn't have to do anything more, but I thought, oh, I can finally be me. In my high school, for example, like dudes weren't really like just rocking dreads. You know what I'm saying? In my high school, again, we had certain strict stringent rules. I don't know how public schools are, but like dress codes are.

• 6:42Lewis Howes?

  I went to a private high school too.

• 6:43Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah, we wore gray slacks, white button downs, couldn't have facial hair.

• 6:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Emmanuel Acho?

  For example.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  Couldn't have long hair, all this stuff.

• 6:48Emmanuel Acho?

  No, all that, all that jazz. So I, I, I draw the parallel to Tarzan. Remember the movie Tarzan? You ever see Tarzan? We all love Tarzan. Um, Tarzan, remember, although he was fully human, he grew up around animals. So he lived his life believing that he was an animal until he saw humans. Then he was like, wait a second, y'all look like me. See, I grew up around white people. Now on Sundays, I was going to church in the inner city. And on Wednesdays, I was going to church in the inner city and my house is Nigerian culture. But Monday through Friday, I'm growing up around white people. Then I get the call and I'm like, wait a second. Y'all talk like me. Y'all walk like me. Now, there are some cultural disconnects, you know what I'm saying?

• 7:31Emmanuel Acho?

  Like now I'm around black people from the country, black people from the, from the city, black people from the hood. Um, but I didn't have to change me. I could just be me a little more. I'm gonna end kind of even as an adult. I have my hair kind of in a mohawk now. Now, when I first started on TV, fade, all the way even all around. Because that is more appropriate for kind of the white world in which we live. So I didn't want anything I did, it's called code switching. We can go into that later. But I didn't want anything I did to be perceived by a, a white employer as a different way. So it was very similar. It was like, okay, now I can be, but now everybody knows I'm intelligent.

• 8:15Emmanuel Acho?

  So now I can just be me. So now I can be like my fullest version of myself.

• 8:19Lewis Howes?

  Without having to worry about what someone's gonna say or do or whatever.

• 8:22Emmanuel Acho?

  Correct.

• 8:23Lewis Howes?

  What's the most uncomfortable conversation you've had with a white person so far?

• 8:28Emmanuel Acho?

  Oh, it's a good question. Um, the most uncomfortable, so here's the kicker. People hear uncomfortable and they think like, I'm gonna be uncomfortable. Right? Like, just because it's uncomfortable doesn't mean I'm gonna be the one that's uncomfortable. I think, I think that there are two. The first, I was doing this show with Oprah. Um, it was called, it was an Oprah conversation on Apple TV. Y'all should watch it if y'all haven't. And I get, it was 10 people on Zooms and they're asking me different questions. Oprah is facilitating the conversation. And one person says, Emmanuel, Jewish people suffered the Holocaust, which was more recent and more lethal than slavery and they got over it. How come black people can't get over slavery?

• 9:13Emmanuel Acho?

  Mind you, you know the question is uncomfortable, bro? Because everybody else was on camera and asked their questions. This person chose to remain faceless. Didn't even show her face. When I heard that, I thought to myself, yo, that's wild. But here's why I loved the question. Because the only bad question is a question not asked. She's thinking that, whoever this person was, I believe it was a woman. She is thinking that. So I would prefer you ask it so I can answer it and let's have an honest conversation. As opposed to you just living your life like, I don't know why these black people can't get over this. Yes, I mean, you're thinking it, but you're not talking about it. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Outside of that, I did an episode on my show, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man.

• 9:54Emmanuel Acho?

  Um, I did an episode where I had white parents raising black children. They had a biracial son, they had two black children and they had a, a, a natural born white son. I think that's. The adopted black kids. The adopted black kids. And I asked the black daughter, the adopted black daughter, and with her white parents sitting right next to me. Her name was Story. I said, Story, do you wish your parents raising you were black?

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  What did she say?

• 10:23Emmanuel Acho?

  Regardless of how she answers that, Louis is about to be awkward.

• 10:27Lewis Howes?

  How old is she?

• 10:27Emmanuel Acho?

  She's 12. So you know you can't lie. You know 12 year olds aren't great liars. So I'm like, do you wish your parents raising you were black? And she was like, she paused. She's like, no, I just wanted them to love me for me. I said, yes, good answer, girl.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:42Emmanuel Acho?

  But now I looked to my left and now mom is crying.

• 10:44Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 10:44Emmanuel Acho?

  Mom, Jamie Ivy, her husband Aaron Ivy. Most, one of the most powerful episodes I've done. Again, if y'all haven't seen it, check it out. Not for my sake, for your sake, honestly, because I do a show for the people. That was uncomfortable because that could have gone south real quick. Think about this. I do my show and the book based on questions from emails and whatnot. So, so many parents who have adopted children lay their head at night, wondering if they're adequate enough. Wondering if they're loving enough, wondering like, man, I know I'm white and my child is black. I'm doing all I can, but I can't provide exactly what they need. I don't know what they're going through. My hair ain't like their hair. I don't even know how to do their hair. I'm black, my child is white, I'm doing the best I can, but maybe I'm falling short. Parents raised, sleeping at night restlessly.

• 11:29Emmanuel Acho?

  And when Story, the black daughter, answered that question to her, me and her mom, I could just imagine adopted kids answering that question around the world.

• 11:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:37Emmanuel Acho?

  Like so many parents getting that answer that they wanted, that they lay sleepless knee at night wondering. So that, bro, was powerful.

• 11:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I have a good friend of mine who's adopted, I believe, two kids, two black kids. He's a white guy and he's very white looking. And he's, he's had to deal with a lot of challenges from just like taking his kids to the park pre-pandemic to black women, you know, mothers coming up and being very scared for these younger black kids, thinking that the white parent has kidnapped these kids or something has happened and worried for them. And he has to deal with. I don't know if that's reverse racism, or if that's

• 12:18Emmanuel Acho?

  So it's funny, it's not reverse racism, but it's one, I hate the concept of reverse racism. Racism is racism, right? Black people can be racist. Now, a group of black people would struggle to be racist, because I say three things are imperative for racism, power, privilege, and prejudice. And at large, black people don't have power. But that would just be the kind of, it would be stereotyping.

• 12:39Lewis Howes?

  Stereotyping.

• 12:40Emmanuel Acho?

  You feel me? Like, it would be like stereotyping, but bro, it's real. Like, we have a human inclination of like, wait a second. If you see like a white person with like two young black kids, like what the heck is going on here? Because the world has told me, if I see a black person with two young white kids, you're probably the nanny, or you're probably the help. Like, that's what the world has told us. It's what movies has told us. Let's go back to slavery. That's what it was. Several of the black women were used to raise the master's kids, if you will. And so, the world has told us, black, older person, white, younger kids, you're probably like walking, um, whatever the case may be. When it's reversed, it's like, wires not crossing, firing correctly. What is going on here? So yeah, man, it's real.

• 13:23Lewis Howes?

  Do you think, uh, white parents should be focusing on adopting white-looking kids? Or is it, you know, if there's a lot of white kids that still need parents as well, should parents only be focusing on their race, so that there's not this cultural confusion?

• 13:41Emmanuel Acho?

  Really good question.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  Or is, you know, is it acceptable to adopt any kids you want?

• 13:48Emmanuel Acho?

  For me, I would say, adopt who you want. Bro, what we know is needed in this world is more what? Love, is more what? Peace, unity, harmony. That's what we need. So if, if, if someone is willing and has the ability and empathy to look beyond their skin color and love someone who doesn't look like them, I will never, ever, ever, ever try to put a rule restriction or boundary on love. Oh, only adopt someone who looks like you? No, no, because that in and of itself is undermining achievement and improvement in our society. Now, what I will say is, and I said this on my episode, and I'll say this now, because it is imperative.

• 14:31Emmanuel Acho?

  Do not remove your kid's culture, your child's culture, if you adopt them. Don't do them a disservice. Because again, I said it in jest, but I'm serious.

• 14:42Lewis Howes?

  Don't make them white.

• 14:43Emmanuel Acho?

  Beagle. Uh, now. If they wanna hang out in white culture. Now, let me say this, let me say this, cause let me clarify, let me clarify, cause this is an issue we have in our society. You can't make them white. You can make them white cultured. When I was young Louis, I finally realized, when people would say Emmanuel, you're not even black. What they were saying is Emmanuel, you're not black cultured. Uh huh, right. And we need to do a better job delineating between the two. A black person is black is black. It don't matter if I'm white cultured or not. If the cops see me, I'm black. So you're black. Yeah, it doesn't matter whether you, what your culture is when it comes to oppression. Yeah. But you can make them, you can not only not make them white cultured, just remember that they should be black cultured as well. I grew up in a Nigerian household.

• 15:27Emmanuel Acho?

  I am now, I, I understand white culture, I understand black culture, I understand Nigerian culture. My parents would try to speak to me in Ibo, our native language, to make sure I maintain my Nigerian culture. We would go back to Nigeria to make sure I maintain my Nigerian culture. That's not to say, hey, son, don't go to this white school. Hey, son, don't go to this black town. No, do that. But also remember who you are. And so I would say, make sure your children. Simba. Remember, remember. Like also remember who you are, bro, like because genuinely speaking, and some white people don't know this, like, and I've said this in the book, it's funny, black people's hair is different. Like, black women can't just get into a pool and get out the pool, like, hair is different.

• 16:11Emmanuel Acho?

  Black people, we using lotion all the time because our skin is different. Our skin will get dry, will get what's called ashy. Like, there's differences in color and there's differences in culture. I just want everyone to acknowledge that. Yeah.

• 16:30Lewis Howes?

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• 17:57Lewis Howes?

  What's been the biggest challenge for you from putting out one piece of content that you were hoping that would inspire a few people that inspired tens of millions and turned into a really a phenomenon in 2020 to serving and educating people who were very ignorant around this topic. What's your life been like since that one video came out and now within six months, a book went with Oprah and New York Times bestseller.

• 18:26Emmanuel Acho?

  Say that again, bro.

• 18:27Lewis Howes?

  A New York Times bestseller.

• 18:29Emmanuel Acho?

  Let's go. Let's go.

• 18:32Lewis Howes?

  You know, we both debuted number three on the New York Times bestseller list.

• 18:39Emmanuel Acho?

  The hardest part, I will say this, I understand why people are one hit wonders. I understand it because it is hard to follow up.

• 18:50Lewis Howes?

  It's hard.

• 18:51Emmanuel Acho?

  Dude. My first episode, people, y'all don't understand. Go back and watch the very first episode of Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. It's me sitting in a burgundy tank top and a burgundy Zara long sleeve in a white room. I say this, "Welcome to the first of hopefully many episodes of Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man." The operative word there, Louis, is "hopefully."

• 19:14Emmanuel Acho?

  I did not know. You were like, "This might just be one video." Might just be one video. Gosh. I had no idea. So, okay, we do the first video. I act, I don't, I don't know anything about anything. So I do it, I drop it on a Monday. On Tuesday is Blackout Tuesday. For those of y'all that aren't aware. So everyone's posting a video on the next day. And nobody's posting any content because Blackout Tuesday. The timing. The timing, incidental. I had no idea Blackout Tuesday was a thing. So the reason it went so viral was so many incidental pieces. Blackout Tuesday occurs, now everybody's posting it. So now I have 25 million views in four days. Six days later, I get a call. "Acho, McConaughey speaking." What the hell? How'd you get my number? It's no caller ID call. "McConaughey speaking. I want to have a conversation."

• 19:57Emmanuel Acho?

  McConaughey, like, like, "Man, McConaughey?" Yeah, man, let's have a conversation. I'm like, "All right, well, I'm gonna record my next episode in four days. Man would love to have you. Hint, haven't told this before." My second episode was gonna be Instagram Live. I didn't know how to follow up. My first episode got 25 million views. You can't beat that. No. So my second episode, I was gonna go on Instagram Live. "Hey, thank y'all for watching. Ask me questions, I'll answer them live." That was my idea. "McConaughey, I want to have a conversation." "Yeah, McConaughey, let's record it in four days. This is when my next episode." "Let's do it tomorrow." "Oh, McConaughey wants to do it tomorrow?" "Okay."

• 20:31Emmanuel Acho?

  So, episode two, McConaughey. Episode three, Chip and Joanna reach out. Chip and Joanna Gaines. Episode four, I've now heard from Oprah. And now I moved to LA. Wow, so you were still in Austin then? I was still in Austin. I was still in Austin, Texas. I was in the middle of a job transition. So I wasn't even supposed to move to LA. My job was supposed to take me to New York. All of a sudden, job things change. I moved to LA. It was so many God things, timing things, stars aligning, but I believe in, and I'm a man of faith. So so many God things that, bro, that was, that's the weirdest part of it all. So, and I mean, dude, I could tell you stories about rejection and so many obstacles with why this was not supposed to happen. Really? I could. I mean, that's a whole nother book. This video is not supposed to happen? No, bro.

• 21:17Emmanuel Acho?

  The first, it was supposed to be called Questions White People Have. It was never supposed to be called Uncomfortable Conversations. My first thought was, hey, I'm gonna call it Questions White People Have. I called my homegirl, Rachel Lindsay, the first black bachelorette for all bachelorette fans. I watched that episode, it was great. Um, great. So I called my homegirl, I say, hey Rachel, I'm gonna do this thing called Questions White People Have. Three white people at a table, three black people at a table, white people reaching to a fishbowl, ask a question, black people answer it. I wanted to see white and black people in dialogue, that was the goal. Man, middle of Covid, couldn't make it happen. So now I have my homegirl, she's like, hey, Acho, I'll drive down, I'll do it with you, this white girl, I'll do it with you myself. She drives down from Dallas to Austin. It was gonna be her and I. We rehearsed for a whole day. All day Saturday, we practiced. On Sunday, an hour and six minutes before I'm supposed to be in studio, she calls me.

• 22:00Emmanuel Acho?

  Um, yeah, she called me. She was staying in my house, in my guest room. She called me downstairs, like, hey, I can't do this, like, like it's supposed to be you, not me, they don't wanna see me, like, she has tears in her eyes, like, I just can't do it, it's not right, I can't do it, it's not right. I'm like, what the hell? It's a white girl, right? White girl. I'm like, what the hell? What the hell? We practiced this, we practiced this. So now, I had to do it myself. Remember, uncomfortable conversations with a black man, not uncomfortable monologue with a black man. The first episode, I was not supposed to be by myself. Now get this. I opened the door to the studio, five minutes before I'm supposed to record, with my right hand, my left hand, it vibrates, text from my friend. Acho, a different friend, black girl. Acho, I really don't like this idea you're doing, Questions White People Have.

• 22:43Emmanuel Acho?

  Um, they didn't educate us as to how to assimilate into their culture, why do we need to educate them as to how to assimilate into ours? I said, unless you have a better idea, I'm just gonna go where God leads. I hit my, um, I hit my literary agents, um, like, three weeks before the first episode, uh, three days before the first episode. Hey, I have this idea, I think I wanna do something. I don't know what it is, but I think I wanna do something. Hey, the market space is just incredibly crowded, it's not a great, it's probably not like, gonna go anywhere, like, In this type of space? Yeah, the market, the space is crowded for books like these. Like racist books, like, yeah, yeah. It's hard to cut through, people aren't really buying a lot. Um, I said, hey, I'm gonna do this with or without y'all.

• 23:26Emmanuel Acho?

  True story, I sent them, after we made the New York Times Bestsellers list, I text my literary agent, my literary agent said, never forget. Wow. I said, I'm gonna do this with or without y'all. And the rest is freaking history. So like, there were obstacles after obstacles after obstacles telling me to stop.

• 23:43Emmanuel Acho?

  And I was just like, God called me to do something. I had to do it.

• 23:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:48Emmanuel Acho?

  I couldn't say no. And five months later, New York.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man, it's crazy. Now, were you talking about this stuff privately or publicly about race? And, you know. It's a good question. Moving this conversation forward, or were you just a sports broadcaster?

• 24:07Emmanuel Acho?

  It's a good question. Um, after George Floyd was murdered. I, I, I, uh, so again, the last, one of the last pages of the book, you'll see me with all my friends. You can see the friend group I have, a lot of guy, I have a lot of close white friends, a lot of close of black friends. It's the very last page before acknowledgement, so the last page of the actual book. Um, yeah, check it out, it's, you'll see like, it's a picture, bro. And it's 17 people at my going away party. And, um, and eight are black, eight are white, one's Hispanic. Right? And, and I, why do I say this? Because this is my life, uncomfortable conversations, white and black culture, it is my life. Um, and so my, my point here is after George Floyd was murdered, I pulled up to my white friend's house. It was four people.

• 24:52Emmanuel Acho?

  And I sat in the car for a second with my black homegirl, her name is Mo. And I said, I really don't want to go off on these white people.

• 25:00Lewis Howes?

  True story.

• 25:02Emmanuel Acho?

  I was like, I really don't want.

• 25:02Lewis Howes?

  Your friends?

• 25:03Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah, they're my, my people, they're in the book, they're in the book, they're at my going away party, my closest friends. Right. I was like, I really don't want to go off on these white people because I was so, I'm, I'm like, yo, I'm tired of seeing the black people being oppressed or murdered or enslaved or whatever, mistreated excessively because they're black. I'm tired of that, especially at the hands of white people, we've seen that for years in this country. We've read about it, we've heard it, we've felt it, I'm so tired of it, ah! Caught my breath, I walk inside the house, I said, I was, I said, hey, listen now. Very sober minded, very sober.

• 25:38Lewis Howes?

  You've known these white people for how long?

• 25:40Emmanuel Acho?

  10, 12 years, like they my dogs, they my, they're family, and not even friends, they're family.

• 25:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:44Emmanuel Acho?

  Like at this point, they're family, that's family, bro. I, let me put this, the white girl, uh, her name is Brogan, I walked her mom down the aisle at Brogan's wedding. I'll put it like that, like they're family, this is family. I said, y'all, listen now, we gotta talk. I said, "What's up, man?" I was like, "I was like, "What is it about white people that make them view black people?" So we get to talking, we get to talking. And Louis, after forty-five minutes, one of my, I was telling my white friends, like, "How can we help? What can we do?" I said, "You'll have to expose yourselves to black culture, to black people. You can't live in this white neighborhood, in this white cul-de-sac. Go to your white church, go to your kids, send your kids to a white school, and expect to understand black culture and black things. You can't do that." I said, "Hey, how many black people were at your wedding? Because I know I was there." I said, "How many black, I said, "How many black people were at your wedding?"

• 26:28Emmanuel Acho?

  I, I knew off the top of my head, it was me, my brother. They said, I asked Brogan's husband. She said, "There were three, you, your brother, and this other dude." I said, "Okay, how many knew you? Like, how many came for you? And how many knew Brogan first?" And he thought, and he was like, "Dang, you're right." I said, "If you don't, if you don't, it's not that you don't like black people, but if you live your life according to the easiest way you'll live your life, not consciously, you'll just live a very white life." He said, "Okay, well, how can I even meet black people?" I said, "You can go to black church." They said this, four white people sitting there talking, me and my friend. They said, "We thought black church was your thing." I get it now. These incredible white people who love me dearly don't understand jurisdiction or lack thereof of cultural boundaries. Where they can go. We gotta have conversations.

• 27:13Emmanuel Acho?

  And that's why the book started, that's why the show started to lead to the book. I was sitting at this table with my dearest white friends, and as soon as I'm talking to them, I'm like, "They don't even understand." So the only way you can understand is by talking. Somebody's gotta talk. Somebody's gotta do this. Because if these people who I love, one woman whom my mother, I walked down the aisle at her wedding, if they don't understand, then how can I expect a random person to understand? Who aren't hanging out with black people. So I said, "We gotta have conversations." And that's how everything. And when was that? That was on Friday. That was on. What month was that? That was in May. Because remember, George Floyd murdered May twenty-fifth or twenty-sixth, something along then. That would have maybe been May twenty-ninth or thirtieth.

• 27:58Emmanuel Acho?

  It was a few days after George Floyd was murdered. And you were moving to LA. I moved to LA, June fifteenth. Didn't know I was moving to LA at the time, though. Remember, you were going to New York? New York, exactly. So you thought you were going to New York, and within two weeks, you moved to LA? Correct. What? Correct. That's for the job. That was for the job, that was for Fox. So none of that was based on the video? No. That was just happened? No.

• 28:16Lewis Howes?

  Happening to be coming to LA, that's crazy.

• 28:18Emmanuel Acho?

  Crazy. Because if I don't go to LA, now I'm more distant from Oprah and her team and everything's different. And mind you, New York was way more shut down at the time. So I don't even know what uncomfortable conversations become. So anyway, that was how it all started. And that's how I realized uncomfortable conversations need to be had.

• 28:35Lewis Howes?

  This is what I love. Whenever I see someone who does something based on their calling or their mission, even if it's not their career, but they feel like it's a duty. It's a responsibility to put something out there, whether it's going to ruin your career, whether it's going to go nowhere, doesn't matter. I put out a book a few years ago called The Mask of Masculinity, which is about how men can be more vulnerable and how we can tear down our masks. As an athlete, I wore a lot of masks.

• 29:02Emmanuel Acho?

  Of course.

• 29:03Lewis Howes?

  And it helped me in a lot of ways, but then it also hurt me to being less vulnerable, putting out my ego, all these different things. And I realized that men were doing a lot of the harm in the world because we were wearing masks. We weren't willing to open up and have these loving conversations.

• 29:19Emmanuel Acho?

  Absolutely.

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  We weren't willing to share, we weren't willing to heal, we weren't willing to let go of our shame, all these things. And I remember, my team at the time, they're like, my agent was like, why are we putting out a book about masculine vulnerability? And I was just like, I feel like I have to. It wasn't a smart business move, it wasn't helping my business or my career. It could have hurt me in a lot of ways, but I was just like, I don't care if one person reads this. If it helps one person, we gotta do it.

• 29:47Emmanuel Acho?

  Dude, let me speak on this. I said, there's a difference between your career and your calling.

• 29:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Emmanuel Acho?

  And I've heard, I think Steve Harvey say this, your career is what you're paid for, your calling is what you're made for.

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 29:55Emmanuel Acho?

  That's deep, it's a bar.

• 29:56Lewis Howes?

  That's clean.

• 29:57Emmanuel Acho?

  It's a bar. I'll put it like this, I'll put it like this. People say, Emmanuel, how do you know you're calling? Remember I told you, I got called from a no caller ID number. First one, it was Matthew McConaughey. I got called from a no caller ID number. The second one, it was Oprah Winfrey. I got called from a no caller ID number. The third one, it was Commissioner of the NFL Roger Goodell. Your calling will call you. Pick up.

• 30:23Emmanuel Acho?

  Your calling will call you. Pick up.

• 30:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:27Emmanuel Acho?

  See, so many times we see no caller ID numbers. Ah, I don't want to take that one. Right? Ah, I don't know that one. Your calling will call you, people. Pick up. I was called to this moment. I did not want to do this. I'll be honest with y'all. I'm telling the world. Emmanuel Acho wasn't like, hey, let's have conversations about race and racial reconciliation. That'll be extremely fun. No, it's not what I wanted to do. It's what I had to do.

• 30:55Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah, you were.

• 30:56Emmanuel Acho?

  I had to do.

• 30:57Lewis Howes?

  Because you were doing sports broadcasting on the weekends, right?

• 31:01Emmanuel Acho?

  I was doing, I was doing college football at the time for another network, doing all these different shows. I was a sports guy, trying to create content about love too. Like, that was gonna be what I wanted to do for fun. But I was called to do this. And then, when your calling does call you, don't get distracted. What do I mean? After the first video, I get 25 million views, and since has 30-plus million views. Now I'm like, oh, I gotta get views, I gotta get views, I gotta get. I didn't do it to get views. I did it to change hearts. So now, Acho, don't worry about the views. Just change, like you said, just change one. What if, what if just one person is touched by this? Now, by the grace of God, we're still getting millions of views, which is cool. Um, because then you just got to see the fruits of your labor, but I don't care about it. It's like, just change one.

• 31:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Emmanuel Acho?

  Just move one, just cause one to emote. So, I had to speak on that, because people wonder about the calling. I'm like, your calling, it will call you, I promise. You just gotta pick up.

• 31:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, what are, are three questions every white person should be asking themselves? And their black friends or black members of the community?

• 32:02Emmanuel Acho?

  One, that's a good one. My guy, I like this conversation.

• 32:05Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:05Emmanuel Acho?

  Um, I would say, those are separate questions. I'm just gonna start spitballing. I never really prep for conversations, so I like speaking from the heart. Um, the first one.

• 32:14Lewis Howes?

  What should we be asking ourselves, white people?

• 32:16Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah, the first thing is, the gateway to these conversations, do you understand white privilege? Does white privilege make me feel uncomfortable?

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  What is white privilege?

• 32:24Emmanuel Acho?

  I'm gonna go there.

• 32:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:25Emmanuel Acho?

  Do I understand that I have white privilege? I, I would, if I'm white, ask myself all of these questions, all of them. Do I understand white privilege? Does the concept of me being white privilege making, make me feel uncomfortable? Do I have white privilege? Now let me define it. Three weeks ago, Louis, I'm walking down the streets of Beverly Hills. I walk into a restaurant. Hey, let me get this, let me get that, let me get. Oh my god, Emmanuel Acho, I love your show, your meal's on me. Oh, thank you. See, my meal was free not because I'm black. My meal was free not because I'm 6'2". My meal was free because I was famous. So I had famous person privilege. All privilege is, is immunity from certain punishment or access to certain things based upon something. Immunity from punishment or access to things based upon something.

• 33:08Emmanuel Acho?

  So what is the adjective or word that precedes privilege? I had famous person privilege. Okay, let's talk white privilege. White privilege is not saying your life hasn't been hard. It's saying your skin color hasn't contributed to the difficulty of your life. It's not saying your life hasn't been hard. Saying your skin color hasn't contributed to that. As a white person, your life has probably been hard. Because for the most part, all of our lives have been hard. But let me tell you, what hasn't contributed to your life's difficulty is your whiteness. You can be white and not be privileged. Because just the word privilege is just access and immunity. Typically, just saying privilege means money. But you can't be white and not be white privileged.

• 33:51Emmanuel Acho?

  Every white person has white privilege. Every white person doesn't necessarily have privilege. But every white person has white privilege. That's why when people talk about, oh, well, you have black privilege, I quickly dismantle that idea. There was a sports reporter that said, these two black players, Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, they're black superstars. They had recruited a white head coach to coach them.

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:14Emmanuel Acho?

  Two black players recruited a white head coach to coach them. The sports reporter said, well, that was black privilege. I said, absolutely not. That was superstar privilege. Because them being able to dictate who coaches them is not dependent upon their skin color. It was dependent upon their superstardom.

• 34:28Lewis Howes?

  The stars of the NBA.

• 34:30Emmanuel Acho?

  Exactly. Let's not make that mistake. It is very, very, very, very nearly impossible to have black privilege in America. You can have black privilege in black-dominated spaces, Nigeria. But it's very, very, very hard, nearly impossible to have that. So we can't throw Lewis words around so quickly like privilege without explaining them because they're visceral reactions. Great.

• 34:49Lewis Howes?

  Before you go on to the next thing, is there a way in America that you can have black privilege?

• 34:54Emmanuel Acho?

  That you can?

• 34:54Lewis Howes?

  Is there black privilege in America?

• 34:56Emmanuel Acho?

  I think it would be very hard to have. Let me create a scenario. If you are in a inner city. And you're going to a school in the inner city that's 90% black. And you're one of the 5% white and 5% will be other. Then all of a sudden, the people at that school and the school teachers are black. Yeah. And they're showing favoritism within themselves, then there could be black privilege. Got it. But, but for, remember, for there to be privileged, there probably has to be an environment in which privilege can be cultivated. And in America, black people typically, generally speaking, don't have environments that are like incubated for black people. So it's just very, very hard to have black privilege.

• 35:40Emmanuel Acho?

  In what space does being black grant you a benefit? Now, some people will say the lazy adjective, oh, well, black people are athletic. It's not, that's not a black thing. Read, read this book called Sports Gene. That's a genetic anatomical thing. Yeah. Right? So in what spaces does just your skin color, being black, grant you an advantage or immunity? That's what then I would challenge all white people. If you're like, wait, black privilege does exist? Just think about, in what space or situation is being black a benefit? When you find that answer, there's the answer. Yeah. Um, the other questions white people should be asking themselves is, when's the last time you had a conversation with a black person or a group of black people?

• 36:19Emmanuel Acho?

  That's, that, that I think is imperative. Well, so I'm gonna go here and I'm just gonna give you two answers, cause I'm going loud. Um, I'm gonna go here.

• 36:26Emmanuel Acho?

  It wasn't enough for us to outlaw segregation. We should have mandated integration. That's a whole conversation that I might make a TED Talk or a book or whatever the heck. I don't know, it might be an episode, but I'm gonna say this again so people can let this sink in. It wasn't enough to outlaw segregation. We should have mandated integration. If we really wanted to change our world. 2013, I'm in the Philadelphia Eagles locker room, Philadelphia Eagles NFL organization. I'm playing for the Eagles at the time. I walk into the cafeteria at One Nova Care Way, that's where the Eagles practice is. And in the cafeteria, there are 53 people that are players, 53 people on the, on the NFL roster. I look up, all the white people, true story, are sitting at a table and all the black people are sitting at a table. Really? True story, minus two people.

• 37:10Emmanuel Acho?

  There's one mixed black offensive lineman, sitting with the white people. And there was one white defensive back, sitting with the black people. True story. I said, dang, we outlawed segregation years ago, but I sit here and we unintentionally or incidentally still segregate. Think about- Because we gravitate towards things we are familiar with. My coach would always tell me, "Acho, don't be like water. Water takes the easiest route. If I were to pour water on the ground, Louis, it would just navigate the path of least resistance, and that is what we do. White, I'm in this white neighborhood, yeah, let me go here. Uh, oh yeah, this church, I like that, I'll just go here. Only white people, yeah, that's fine. Oh, this small group, I'll go here, it's only white people, but I mean, it's not my fault, I don't see any black people around, so that's fine.

• 37:53Emmanuel Acho?

  We just take the path of least resistance.

• 37:56Lewis Howes?

  Let me ask you a question on this.

• 37:57Emmanuel Acho?

  Talk to me.

• 37:57Lewis Howes?

  This just came to me. This may be very ignorant, but I've heard the term, "Birds of a feather flock together." What if you had a duck and a pigeon trying to integrate? Would they be able to fly to their destination?

• 38:10Emmanuel Acho?

  Great question.

• 38:11Lewis Howes?

  As seamlessly?

• 38:12Emmanuel Acho?

  That's a great question.

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  You know, mighty ducks, the mighty V, if you got a parakeet and a?

• 38:18Emmanuel Acho?

  That's a good question.

• 38:18Lewis Howes?

  Blue jay and a robin and a, you know, all flying together, would you be able to achieve the whatever, desired route?

• 38:26Emmanuel Acho?

  As soon as you've found your common humanity. If you have these two animals, if they never, or these two objects, whatever the case may be, if they never try to integrate, they won't figure out what they have in common. I say in the book, this is my homegirl, Brittany Wheeler, she's a white girl. And if ever I say something to her, and she lives in Austin, Texas, that's my homie, she would be like, "Oh bless." Right? I would say, "You tripping." But she says, "Oh bless." See, she's a white woman, grew up in Austin, Texas, I'm a black dude playing in the NFL. But we figured out our common humanity, so we still rock together.

• 39:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:00Emmanuel Acho?

  Totally different. She speaks different, talks different, walks different, style different. But at the heart, we're very similar.

• 39:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:09Emmanuel Acho?

  But until you have these conversations, until you get out your box, you don't realize, "Wait a second. We actually are more alike than we are different." Not to say we don't have differences, but we actually have a lot in common. So, while the birds of a feather may flock together, imagine what they could do if they really started to speak and talk and understand other people.

• 39:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:34Emmanuel Acho?

  My life is a beautiful multitude of colors, cultures, et cetera. So, that, that's what I would submit to that.

• 39:44Lewis Howes?

  And what about white people that are just like, "Well, I like just hanging out with white people."

• 39:49Emmanuel Acho?

  And I want to live in a neighborhood where I'm not forced to hang out with black people or Asian people or Hispanic people. I just want to hang out with my family and friends that are white. Um, I would say, I would say this, that if you were to do that and not expose yourself to other cultures, then you would end up more than likely committing involuntary racism. What do I mean? Let's talk, people. Um, in our judicial system, Louis, we have degrees of murder. First degree murder, what is that? That is premeditated. I thought about it beforehand. Second degree murder, that's a crime of passion. But then you move down the rungs and you get to involuntary manslaughter. While it wasn't intentional, it still led to death.

• 40:32Emmanuel Acho?

  While it wasn't premeditated or a crime of passion, it still led to death. See, if you're only hanging out with your white brothers and sisters and you're white or your black brothers and sisters and you're black, then you will be unintentionally emotionally killing people when you are in their presence. Emotionally killing them. Correct. What do you mean by that? You don't even talk like you're black, Ocho. You're so educated for a black man. Wow. Oh my gosh, you dress so well for a black guy. You think you're paying me a compliment, but you're really emotionally killing me. Cause now I'm questioning my blackness. I'm questioning who I am. Wow. So I would submit to those people who are like, well, I just don't want to. For the betterment of our society, for the betterment of your household, for the betterment

• 41:15Emmanuel Acho?

  of your family, for the betterment of your neighborhood, for the betterment of communities at large, push against that. Push, push, push, push, push against that. I want to eat dessert every day. I don't. Right. For the betterment of my health. Yeah. Right? Like, some days after a hard workout, maybe you don't feel like showering, but you do for the betterment of those around you, so you don't freaking smell. We always do things for the betterment of others. So even if in some weird, naive, lazy way, we don't want to, you still do it. Yeah. Okay, what's another question we should ask ourselves as white people? I would probably say, in this, I would probably say, how are you using your privilege to benefit those around you? Okay, people say, okay, Ocho, I get it, I'm privileged.

• 42:00Emmanuel Acho?

  Now what? Louis, this company sponsors me, um, this restaurant sponsors me. They give me a celebrity card. You may have heard of the company, I've said this story, but for those who haven't. They give me a celebrity card. And with the celebrity card, I'm allowed to eat for free whenever I want. I go to the restaurant, I place my order, swipe the card, it's free. That's amazing. Swipe the card. I need to get one of these sponsors. It's amazing, it's amazing. But also, on the back of the card, if you read the fine print, Emmanuel, you are allowed to throw a party for a hundred people every year at this restaurant, or have this restaurant cater it. What do I do? I throw it for the homeless. This is not to toot my own horn, this is to say, I have been given privilege, because I am famous, to eat at this restaurant for free. I'm not only going to use this privilege for myself,

• 42:43Emmanuel Acho?

  I'm gonna use this privilege for those who are not privileged in this means. I say that to say, my white brothers and sisters, you have this white privilege. Don't just use it for yourself. Use it for the betterment of other people. America's not a meritocracy. America is based upon nepotism and cronyism. For those of y'all that don't read books, America meritocracy is not based on how hard you work, you'll achieve your success. It's based on nepotism. People hire their family, cronyism, people hire their friends. If America was founded by white men, and is based upon hiring your family, white men, white women, hiring your friends, white men, white women, then if that privilege, being white, cuz that was the word, that is, that's a fixed variable, um, that's a fixed, um, um, outcome, rather than a variable outcome.

• 43:29Emmanuel Acho?

  If it's based upon being white, then how are you using that privilege? To change the matrix? How are you using that privilege to benefit somebody else? Who may not have that same privilege? So that would be the third question. Now that you've understood that you have privilege, how are you using your privilege for the betterment of those around you? And, and what would you say are some questions we should ask black people? When we're around them without?

• 43:53Lewis Howes?

  Because I've seen this in the online space. It's not black people's responsibility to educate white people. It's white people's responsibility to become educated. I've seen that and...

• 44:08Emmanuel Acho?

  That's so tough for me. So again, how are we supposed to have a conversation? That's so tough. I'm a team sport guy, so I don't adhere to that ideology. In team sports, you know this, in football, you might have to pick up the slack of the man to your left or to your right. Not because you want to, but the team needs you to.

• 44:26Lewis Howes?

  You're supposed to just do your job.

• 44:27Emmanuel Acho?

  Do your job. Everybody do your job.

• 44:29Lewis Howes?

  Do your job.

• 44:29Emmanuel Acho?

  But sometimes, somebody falls off.

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  Falls down.

• 44:33Emmanuel Acho?

  Somebody's... And you have to pick them up. I'm a team sports guy. So what does that mean? If a white person is now ready to listen, it will not be because Emmanuel Acho didn't speak that they did not hear. If a white person is ready to listen, it's not going to be for a lack of Emmanuel Acho's speech that they did not hear. That's my thing. If somebody's ready to listen, I'm now gonna say something. I've been saying something. Now, I'm not gonna tell my black brothers and sisters, "Find the strength." I'm not gonna do that. Because people are tired, boss. They're sick and tired of being sick and tired. We say that in the church. "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired." If people are... I'm not gonna... I know what I'm gonna do. I know what I think will behoove those around me, but I'm not gonna project that onto other people.

• 45:18Emmanuel Acho?

  So, this is tough. What should their white friends be asking black friends, black people? Probably, number one, how are you? Don't ask them for any... Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care.

• 45:35Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 45:36Emmanuel Acho?

  Nobody cares what you know until... There's a reason. I choose every word. I choose every syllable. I think about everything I say. My very first episode... Dear white brothers and sisters, this is for you. Consider this a safe space. I say that intentionally. White people, I want y'all to know I care. I made this for you. I could have said, "Hey, white people, let's talk."

• 45:59Lewis Howes?

  Listen up.

• 46:01Emmanuel Acho?

  Totally different. But I use words like brothers and sisters, because that implies endearment. Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. First thing is just, "Hey, how are you?" How are you?

• 46:13Lewis Howes?

  That's the first thing.

• 46:14Emmanuel Acho?

  First thing. Second thing? How can I help? What can I do? Don't need to get, not complicated. After George Floyd was murdered, three people called me. Dude named Trent, dude named Russell, dude named Brandon. Russell and Brandon, same two people that I went to their house. Remember, I told all that story minutes ago. They called me, "Hey, Ocho, I just want to listen." If you need somebody to cry to, cry, yell at, yell, vent to, vent. I just, "How are you, man?" That was it. That was it. They opened the door for communication. That was it. And then from there, from there, we had real conversations.

• 46:44Lewis Howes?

  Then you have conversations.

• 46:45Emmanuel Acho?

  Correct. But don't, don't, I'm not going to sit here and encourage white people. We'll start at, no, man, because some black people tired. I can't even lie, they tired. And I get it, I get it, I get it. Bro, when you sit there and watch people being murdered and lied on and executed, and so much of it is racially motivated, I'm not going to say it's all. I've said this before. I don't think George Floyd's murder was exclusively racial. I do not think it was exclusively racial. I do not. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

• 47:15Lewis Howes?

  Think, so don't think it was exclusively racial?

• 47:17Emmanuel Acho?

  No. I think that it was power-related. Power-related and race-related.

• 47:21Lewis Howes?

  You think if it was a white person?

• 47:23Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah, I do not think George Floyd would have been murdered if it was a white. If George Floyd was white, he would not have been murdered.

• 47:27Lewis Howes?

  You think he would have put his knee on his neck and maybe asserted power and and then taken off at some point?

• 47:34Emmanuel Acho?

  I don't even think it would have got there. This is a long conversation. I'll do it in 42 seconds. Here's why. Communication barrier. Because white people and black people don't really know how to communicate, then white people don't know how to as efficiently diffuse a situation with black people. Communication barrier. Communication is everything. If we did a better job of disarming vocally, we wouldn't have to discharge with our weapons. Communication barrier. After communication barrier, there is a subconscious thinking of black people are lesser than white people. Generally speaking, there's a subconscious thinking. Why is that? That's been

• 48:06Lewis Howes?

  For everyone or for?

• 48:08Emmanuel Acho?

  For society.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 48:09Emmanuel Acho?

  Y'all pick and choose where you want to fall in society. But in society, that's what society has told us. From slavery to Jim Crow to television to segregation, to everything. There is a concept of, wait, this black person is beneath me. There's just, that's just what society has told us. Just think about it. Think about anything in life. Think about whatever movie you watch. Who's the villain? Who's the victim? Who's being victimized? Think about like the subliminal cues of that. And then lastly, in my opinion, and I got my master's degree in psychology, so little of this is psychological based. When the cop is kneeing on George Floyd's neck and you have people telling him to stop, he's looking up like, y'all, I'm not gonna listen to you, black people.

• 48:51Lewis Howes?

  You think it was white people telling him to stop?

• 48:53Emmanuel Acho?

  I think it's different. Because I think there's a different respect.

• 48:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, okay. I see a bunch of white people telling me to stop.

• 48:59Emmanuel Acho?

  Oh, these are my people telling me to stop. Oh, I respect these people.

• 49:02Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 49:02Emmanuel Acho?

  Oh, these are my, oh, I respect y'all. Okay, you're, ah, shit, you're right. But I'm like, he's looking at these black people like, y'all hoodlums, y'all thugs, y'all, y'all gangsters.

• 49:11Lewis Howes?

  I'm not gonna listen to you guys.

• 49:12Emmanuel Acho?

  Right, y'all are uneducated. I'm not gonna listen to y'all, sitting here in your street clothes telling me, I'm the cop. So I think there are a lot of factors at play. Power being one of them, race being one of them.

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  I feel like we've only gotten started, but we've only got a few minutes left of our time. I want to go for three more hours, but I want to ask you a couple of final questions. Before I ask them, make sure you guys get this book, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, Emmanuel Acho. Good-looking black man, by the way.

• 49:37Emmanuel Acho?

  My guy.

• 49:38Lewis Howes?

  Get a few copies for your friends. This is a perfect gift for the holidays as well, so your family members can start being educated and having uncomfortable conversations together. What's, what's a conversation a white person can have with a white person who might be? Unconsciously racist, consciously racist, you know, what is that starter? It was plus besides just saying, hey, read this, you need this book. What's a conversation to open it for someone who might be unconscious or consciously racist?

• 50:12Emmanuel Acho?

  I would say two things, more than I want or would encourage people necessarily have the conversation. You need to be anti racist, not just non racist.

• 50:20Lewis Howes?

  That's where I would really say, what's the difference between non racist and anti racist?

• 50:25Emmanuel Acho?

  Non racist is I am not a participant in racism, but I still tolerate racism around me. Anti racist, I am not only not a participant in racism, but when I hear it, I call it out. I'm at Thanksgiving with my family, I'm white. And my dad says, man, can you believe all those black people that are in the neighborhood now? Like, what is going on here? Call that out. Don't let that slide. Don't let that slide. Yeah, I saw this black guy out the street rocking around in a tank top. Let me, we should go check that one. Call that out. It's not enough to be non racist, we must also be anti racist. And I think the biggest gateway is, like I said, which is the most common one, privilege.

• 51:11Emmanuel Acho?

  White privilege, like that's the biggest gateway if you're white to starting a conversation with other white people.

• 51:16Lewis Howes?

  How can we have a conversation as white people without feeling guilty about white privilege? When, when a lot of people I talked to are saying, I'm not trying to do something wrong.

• 51:26Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah. So I've said this, guilt doesn't cause someone to change, love does. Guilt doesn't cause someone to change. Don't feel guilty. Like, I don't feel guilty that I'm now a little bit famous. I don't feel guilty, that'd be so dumb, I can't believe people recognize me now.

• 51:45Lewis Howes?

  I get free stuff every now and then.

• 51:46Emmanuel Acho?

  This is terrible. Oh my gosh, what have I done? I don't feel guilty. It's not necessarily your fault. Don't feel guilty, that won't cause anybody to change. Love causes people to change. Now, don't feel guilty, but I need you to acknowledge it. I need you to acknowledge it and act accordingly.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  How does someone acknowledge it who's white?

• 52:06Emmanuel Acho?

  Is it a saying every day, I have white privilege to everyone they see who's black? I think it's subconscious, I think it's walking up to the restaurant with the black person and the white hostess is there, and you know the black person got there first. But the white hostess looks at you and says, yes, how many people at your party? Now, you didn't get there first.

• 52:24Lewis Howes?

  Saying, oh, they were before me.

• 52:25Emmanuel Acho?

  Little things. I'm not asking you to save the world. But no, no, they got there first. They got there first. Those are the subtle things, and those are the ones that everybody will probably see in the next week or two. Because that's the stuff I see all the time. I'm walking to a restaurant, somebody else, it's like, and they don't just act like I wasn't there. Like, I get treated second class.

• 52:43Lewis Howes?

  What do, what do, I don't want to say, what do black people feel in general? Because you're one human being, but what do your friends or people you know in general who are black, who deal with this on a daily basis? What are those conversations like behind the scenes? When it's like, man, you know, today, this happened again. Well, this happened again to me.

• 53:01Emmanuel Acho?

  Man, I would say, I would probably say that several, a lot of black people have probably become numb to it. Now, black people aren't one monolithic group. So it's hard to speak on behalf, but let me speak, your experience is your expertise. So let me speak from my experience and my friend's experience. You get numb to it. There are degrees, like I said, of racism, right? You have first degree slavery. You have like second degree, like the George Floyd. And Christian Amy Cooper in New York Central Park, the dogs, y'all, Google the story if you don't know it. But the bottom degrees of just kind of being followed in a store, or not being acknowledged in a store. If I go to the Rolex store, I went to Rolex store in Santa Monica, I put on my Rolex.

• 53:44Emmanuel Acho?

  I have several watches, but if I'm going to the Rolex store, I'm gonna wear my Rolex. Because I'm a black man. And more than likely, black man, can you really afford a Rolex based on what society has told me? I'm conscious of that. I, before I hop on Zoom calls, if I'm wearing my chain, I'll put my chain inside my shirt. Because I'm a black man, and the world has told me, ooh, black man with chain, you should be a rapper. You should be a gangster. You should be a thug. So, black people, I think, at least me, I'm just very, oh, it's my life I now have to live.

• 54:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think you told a story one of your episodes that. Even when you're in a car getting your mail, you saw a white woman come out and you waited in your car just so you weren't getting them out at the same time to not potentially make her feel uncomfortable.

• 54:26Emmanuel Acho?

  Yeah, because man, I mean, think about this, bro.

• 54:29Lewis Howes?

  When you go in an elevator, you push the elevator button first.

• 54:31Emmanuel Acho?

  And I get off the elevator first. Think about what history has told me, like, uh-oh. Man, if I go to this mailbox and freaky and I trip and I use a white woman to catch myself. That started the Tulsa Race Riots back in 1927, Tulsa, Oklahoma, maybe 1921. That started the Tulsa massacre. Black man, elevator, trips, uses white woman to catch himself. She screams, he runs off the elevator. Next thing you know, 300 homes are eviscerated, like 1,200 businesses. Wait a minute, that was in the 1920s, bro. That wouldn't happen now. Christian Cooper, Amy Cooper, black man tells white woman, "Leash your dog." White woman calls the cops, "This black man is threatening my life. Please help. Come quickly." If not for video cameras, who knows how that situation unfolds.

• 55:14Emmanuel Acho?

  So because of that, I as a black man, especially a 6'2", 240-pound black man, I'm just very cognizant of like, "Man, look, y'all not about to get me."

• 55:26Emmanuel Acho?

  Y'all not about to get me.

• 55:29Lewis Howes?

  On something stupid that didn't happen just because.

• 55:32Emmanuel Acho?

  Just because, just because you're white. And if you call the cops, they will believe you before they believe me.

• 55:38Lewis Howes?

  What is it like with black cops? Are they more believing of a white story versus a black story? Or how does that scenario play out?

• 55:44Emmanuel Acho?

  It's interesting, man. Again, again, my experience is my expertise. So I will say that, and I said this in my, my episode with my officers, I didn't say it like this, but I see a black cop as black before I see he as a cop. I see a white cop as a cop first. But I think when, when black people go to a restaurant, at least the black people I know, you go to a restaurant, you look for like the other black person. And you make eye contact, because like just in case something pops off.

• 56:09Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 56:09Emmanuel Acho?

  Yes, bro, because think about this. Black people, we navigate white spaces as foreigners.

• 56:14Lewis Howes?

  You see each other like, "Hey, I'm gonna be a witness if something happens."

• 56:16Emmanuel Acho?

  There's a case, there's, there's, there's an unspoken rule of like, "Ay."

• 56:20Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 56:21Emmanuel Acho?

  There's an unspoken rule of like, "Ay, I got your back."

• 56:23Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 56:23Emmanuel Acho?

  True stories. Bro, I went to a church in Austin, Texas, predominantly white. So when I'm walking in there, I'm looking for other black people. It's like, huh, I wonder what you're doing here. Even now in Beverly Hills, when I go to a restaurant, I'm like, "Oh, good. It's good to see you made it too."

• 56:37Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 56:38Emmanuel Acho?

  I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm glad you're here. Cause it's me and you and about a hundred other white people at this fancy steakhouse. So I don't know what you do, but I'm proud, like I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you, cause I know it was harder for you than it was for everybody else.

• 56:51Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Do you, do other black people think the same thing when you're, is that just you?

• 56:55Emmanuel Acho?

  No, no, no, no, this is a, this is a, bruh, ask, ask the black people that you know. Ask them. Bruh, I'm telling you, like when you walk into a restaurant, but, but it's not, it's not that foreign. Let me, let me flip the roles for you now. I go to Nigeria on mission trips every summer and we go with white people. White doctors, nurses, we do medical mission work. And think about if you were to go into a foreign country and you're the only white person there. When you see another white person, you're gonna spark up a conversation.

• 57:22Lewis Howes?

  Or someone of a language. If you're in, if you're in Mexico and someone speaks English.

• 57:27Emmanuel Acho?

  Let me, let me put it in terms for everybody listening, watching, whatever the case may be. You travel to Mexico, you travel to Italy and you're standing in the customs line. We've all been there. I know you've been there. And you're standing in the customs line and you don't see nobody really recognized, but then you see somebody else who looks bare skinned. Or say you're from, say you're from Texas and you see somebody in their backpack has a Texas flag. What are you gonna do?

• 57:47Lewis Howes?

  You're gonna connect.

• 57:48Emmanuel Acho?

  You're gonna connect.

• 57:49Lewis Howes?

  It's like Jeep owners, motorcyclists, they're like waving at each other when you're driving by.

• 57:53Emmanuel Acho?

  Like what I'm saying really isn't that foreign. Whenever you are the minority and you see someone else who has something shared with you, you connect over that. White people do it too. White people just don't do it over their whiteness because in America it's white. So you're always connected.

• 58:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 58:07Emmanuel Acho?

  But in America, if you're black, you're not, you're rarely connected, especially if you're black and white's faces.

• 58:13Lewis Howes?

  Man, I, that's why you write the book. Cause these things people don't know. This is crazy, man. I wish we could go another few hours, but you've got many episodes on this. On, on YouTube, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. The book is very powerful. I was going through it all week and it's a lot of great resources at the end as well, what you can do. Other movies you can watch, questions you can ask, things like that. Lot of great stuff. So make sure, again, get three copies of this book, give it to your white friends. I think it'd be very powerful. Subscribe on YouTube. I watched most of them. I haven't watched all of them yet, but they're really powerful. episodes and they're short they're only like 12 15 minutes I wish they were hour long and all your comments on YouTube are like oh where's the

• 58:55Lewis Howes?

  that's why we usually do two hours on our show here because it's not even been an hour it's almost been an hour and it felt like 10 minutes

• 59:02Emmanuel Acho?

  yeah

• 59:03Lewis Howes?

  you know what I mean I feel like I could ask you questions forever so make sure you guys get the book if you enjoy this and you want me to have a manual back on in the future let me know in the comments below on social media follow him Emmanuel Acho A C H O on Twitter Facebook Instagram and uncomfortable convos.com is the website we can learn more about this it's been amazing to watch the journey man I've got two final questions this is called the three truths I ask everyone at the end so I'd like you to imagine for a moment a hypothetical situation that it's your last day on earth many many years from now you can be as old as you want to be but you got to eventually turn off the lights and you've accomplished every goal you set out every dream has come true

• 59:46Lewis Howes?

  you've written many books you've done thousands of episodes of your conversations whatever it is we're going to do you've had the family everything but for whatever reason everything you've created like this book has to go with you to the next place wherever that is all your videos have to go with you this conversation goes anything that you said goes with you but you get to leave that behind three things you know to be true three lessons you learn in your life and this is all people would have to remember you by these three truths what would you say are yours

• 1:00:18Emmanuel Acho?

  oh that's a good question

• 1:00:20Lewis Howes?

  I would say this

• 1:00:24Lewis Howes?

  like I told you I'm a man of faith so I would say number one trust God he's faithful trust in God he's faithful you just want truth or you want truth and story as to why I'm saying the truth

• 1:00:35Emmanuel Acho?

  either one you said a story yeah

• 1:00:37Lewis Howes?

  I think trust in God he's faithful 2015 I was 25 years old I had already been cut by the Philadelphia Eagles five times prior to being 25

• 1:00:45Emmanuel Acho?

  five times

• 1:00:45Lewis Howes?

  cut me they signed me I went to work out in Philly by the Rocky steps after you get cut you're by yourself like you can't go work out at the team gym anymore so I'm working out in this open field by the Rocky steps and I go there one day and on this open field is like 400 pigeons and they're just littered all over the field and I don't have any any any bags to work out with so I steal street cones and I'm now working out with construction street cones on a field filled with pigeons as I'm unemployed and I was like God what in the world

• 1:01:15Emmanuel Acho?

  And now I look up five years later and we got a New York Times bestseller.

• 1:01:18Lewis Howes?

  Mmm, love that.

• 1:01:19Emmanuel Acho?

  So I say, the first one, I would say, "Trust God, man, he's faithful, he's faithful."

• 1:01:24Lewis Howes?

  Isn't it interesting that sometimes our dreams that we really wanted, when they don't work out, something greater is for you.

• 1:01:31Emmanuel Acho?

  Ten times, ten times greater, ten times.

• 1:01:33Lewis Howes?

  Similar to me, I got injured playing arena football, and I remember this was my life. I had no backup plan. I was a sports management degree like you. I have no backup plan. It's like, what are we gonna do? Okay. And I remember just being like, so depressed for about a year and a half, thinking like, this is all I know. But then I had to grow, and it became something much greater than just, you know, playing arena football.

• 1:01:55Emmanuel Acho?

  Yep.

• 1:01:55Lewis Howes?

  So anyways, okay, this is number one.

• 1:01:57Emmanuel Acho?

  Trust God, he's faithful. My second one, and I don't know why this is, but I really like this. My brother, Sam Macho, he just wrote a book, and it's called "Let the World See You." It's kind of about being real in a world full of fakes, and he says something that stuck with me. He says something that stuck with me. He says, "You're worth getting to know."

• 1:02:19Emmanuel Acho?

  He says, "You're worth getting to know." He was talking to his mentor, and his mentor was on his deathbed, and his mentor said, "My brother played nine years in the NFL, four years for the Cardinals," and his Arizona Cardinals, and his mentor called Sam and said, "Sam, remember this. You are worth getting to know."

• 1:02:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:02:35Emmanuel Acho?

  I said, "That's so powerful." Because so many of us live our lives like, are we enough? Are we adequate enough? "I'm not that special, I'm not that important," but think like, like Louis, "You're worth getting to know." Like Emmanuel, "You are worth getting to know." Whoever's listening, like, "You are worth getting to know." I would say that.

• 1:02:53Lewis Howes?

  And number three.

• 1:02:54Emmanuel Acho?

  And my last truth, I'm just trying to figure out how to word it, because I know it. I would probably say, "You can do the impossible."

• 1:03:04Emmanuel Acho?

  Don't let anyone tell you you can't. I would say, "You can do the impossible." Man, to think, Louis, that I could sit in a room by myself for nine minutes and 27 seconds in one take, one take.

• 1:03:17Lewis Howes?

  Was that scripted?

• 1:03:18Emmanuel Acho?

  No scripted.

• 1:03:19Lewis Howes?

  No teleprompter?

• 1:03:20Emmanuel Acho?

  No, nothing.

• 1:03:20Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 1:03:21Emmanuel Acho?

  I put my head down, I said, "Three, two, welcome to the first episode." To think that in one take, my life would change, that Oprah would call me, that I'd write a bestselling book, like, that's impossible. Like, you can do the impossible, don't let anybody tell you you can't. So, yeah, I would say, trust God. I would say, you're worth getting to know, and I would say, and I would believe, you can do the impossible.

• 1:03:48Lewis Howes?

  I've got one final question, before I ask you, Emmanuel, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, for doing the impossible, for knowing your worth, and for trusting in God, because you've changed millions of lives, you've opened up conversations for a lot of white people, that probably wouldn't have had the conversation, probably a lot of them that would have stayed ignorant, probably a lot of them that would have stayed angry, entitled, privileged, without being able to be educated on their role in the world. Whether they were responsible for bad things happening in the past, or not, you opened the channel of conversation, and I'm really proud of you, and I acknowledge you for stepping out, and stepping into this platform, when you weren't supposed to.

• 1:04:33Lewis Howes?

  Being a sports analyst, broadcaster, do your job type of mentality, you stepped out of that, and followed your calling, and I think if more people followed their calling, and did what you did, in a similar way, look what we could create in the world. So, really acknowledge you, my man, for stepping up, for stepping out, and for serving people with your gift, with your message, because we really, we really need it right now in this time. Final question, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:05:05Emmanuel Acho?

  My definition of greatness, my definition of greatness would be, how great can you get those around you to become? How great can you get those around you to become? When you think about the great, Michael Jordan, those around him too became great. Tom Brady, football player, those around him too became great. Uncomfortable conversations with a black man, I'm hoping that those around me too become great, in the sense of humanity. Greatness, how great can you get those around you to become?

• 1:05:45Lewis Howes?

  That to me is greatness. It's not just about you, but it's about those around you. I said, one day I was laying, my thoughts come to me when I'm in bed. And I was laying in bed one day, years ago, and this random like poem line came to me. So I put it in my phone. It's, "My desire is to inspire those to go higher past the required. So those that admire can also admire whom they've inspired before they expire."

• 1:06:13Emmanuel Acho?

  Ooh.

• 1:06:14Lewis Howes?

  So like my desire is to inspire those to go higher past the required. So those they admire, so those that people that admire me, I can also admire before I, before I die.

• 1:06:27Emmanuel Acho?

  Wow. Cause you've lifted them up, inspired them to be great. And now you're admiring them.

• 1:06:32Lewis Howes?

  Like that's my desire. I want to make people go beyond the required. So those that admired me, I can admire before I leave. And so what is greatness? To me, it's how great can you get those around you to become?

• 1:06:48Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much, my friends, for listening to this episode. Did it make you uncomfortable in any way? If so, that was my intention and our intention was to open up conversation, to get you thinking differently, to get you seeing different perspectives. And maybe sometimes it's going to feel a little off or uncomfortable just talking about some of these topics. And that's okay. We need to do more of this stuff. So if you enjoyed it, make sure to share this. Make a friend uncomfortable. It will help them grow. I promise you that. Just send them this link wherever you're listening to this or copy and paste the link, lewishouse.com/1039 and share it with a friend over text, over email, WhatsApp, group message, Facebook post, Facebook group, Instagram story, wherever you gotta share it and get this out into the world.

• 1:07:33Lewis Howes?

  Make sure to tag me, Lewis Howes, and also Emmanuel Acho as well. So we can know who's listening and who's getting value out of this. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast, The School of Greatness, over on Apple Podcasts right now. And leave us a rating and review. Would love to hear your thoughts. And every time you rate, review, or subscribe, it helps us spread the message of greatness to more people. So you'll be helping. Other people out as well by subscribing and reviewing. And also, if you want inspirational messages from me every single week to you, then text the word PODCAST right now to the number 614-350-3960. And I'll be sending you constant inspirational messages weekly to remind you of who you are and your greatness.

• 1:08:15Lewis Howes?

  And I want to leave you with a quote from the late, great Kobe Bryant. He said, "It's the one thing you can control. You are responsible for how people remember you or don't. So don't take it lightly." I'm so grateful that you took the time to be here today, constantly grow through uncomfortable conversations. I hope this inspired you and educated you in a powerful way. And if no one's told you lately, you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. I'm so grateful for you. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.