1010 Healing, Forgiveness & Finding Freedom w/Holocaust Survivor Dr. Edith Eger

“I’m not a victim. I was victimized. It’s not my identity. It’s what was done to me.”Dr. Edith Eger is a Holocaust survivor, clinical psychologist, and author of the book, "The Gift: 12 Lessons to Save Your Life." In this powerful interview, Dr. Edith discusses why she felt like her Nazi guards were more imprisoned than she was, what forgiveness truly means, how to free your mind from the shackles of the past, and so much more. For more: https://lewishowes.com/1010Read Dr. Edith Eger’s new book, “The Gift” Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,010 with Holocaust survivor turned clinical psychologist, Dr. Edith Eager. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  In his book Night, Eli Wiesel wrote, "Human suffering anywhere concerns men and women everywhere." And psychotherapist Viktor Frankl wrote, "When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves." Wiesel and Frankl were both Holocaust survivors who made it their missions to bring peace and healing to the world. And my guest today shares the same purpose. Edith Eager was 16 years old when her family was uprooted from their home in Hungary and sent to Auschwitz concentration camp. There, Edith lost her parents and almost her life, but as she says today, she never

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  lost hope, even in her darkest moments. Now 92 years young, Dr. Edie is a respected clinical psychologist in San Diego and the author of the books The Choice and now The Gift, 12 Lessons to Save Your Life. Her latest work weaves profound clinical and philosophical insights with gripping stories of survival and healing. There are not many Holocaust survivors remaining. And while this conversation was incredibly difficult at times, it is so incredibly powerful. Edie is a true inspiration, and we could all use her advice on coming to terms with trauma, freeing your mind from the shackles of your past, and choosing to live a loving,

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  positive life, no matter what circumstances are happening around you. In this episode, we discuss why Edie felt like her Nazi guards were more mentally imprisoned than she was. She was the difference between being victimized and being a victim. What forgiveness truly means, how Edie has overcome survivor's guilt after so many years, why the opposite of depression is expression, the steps to healing from trauma, and so much more. This has to be one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. And if you feel inspired and supported and uplifted in any way, then make sure to share this with a friend or someone who you think could really use this during this time, someone

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  that could be inspired and uplifted as well. And coming up in just a moment is Dr. Edith Eager. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm very honored for our guest today, Dr. Edith Eager, who is an Auschwitz survivor and practicing clinical psychologist, author of The Choice, and a new incredible book called The Gift: 12 Lessons to Save Your Life. And I'm so grateful that you are here, so thank you for joining me.

• 3:12Edith Eger?

  I thank you so much to be your grandma today.

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 3:18Edith Eger?

  But also helping people to give birth to their true self, because you know, it is so much easier just to be yourself rather than acting. And that's what happens with age.

• 3:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 3:32Edith Eger?

  Offstage, the same as onstage, that I hope to give you the true self and the experiences I had in life that made me the survivor and not the victim of anything or anyone anymore.

• 3:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. You're one of the few thriving survivors of the Holocaust.

• 3:51Edith Eger?

  Yes.

• 3:52Lewis Howes?

  And you talk about in your book, The Gift, that the actual experience for you was a gift. How can you view such a traumatic experience for you with a lot of pain and loss as any sort of a gift at all? How is that even possible?

• 4:08Edith Eger?

  Experience like Auschwitz was viewed very differently by many people. Some people entered Auschwitz and were so angry that they started to hit the guards.

• 4:24Edith Eger?

  And they were shot right in front of me. And then there were others who ran into the wire wires and they were electrocuted. So you know, the stress studies, when Hans Selye tells us that anything stressful that comes to us, you have two automatic responses. You either fight or flee. But none of those worked in Auschwitz. So I call Auschwitz a classroom and a discovery. Discover my inner resources. How I was able to turn the experience to discover how I looked at the guards,

• 5:07Edith Eger?

  that they were more imprisoned than I was, that they were brainwashed. And if you like to read the book by Max Weber, it's called Capitalism and the Protestant Ethics, referring to the Jewish people as a pariah. And if you read Plato, he's gonna tell you that the power of suggestion means that you think of a lie. It has to be a big one. And then you repeat it, repeat it, until people believe it. And I think this is very important for people to question authority. And not just to fight or flee,

• 5:52Edith Eger?

  but learn how to flow in a situation and discover the inner resources, that is the gift. To turn hatred into pity. To be able to look at the guards and knowing that I could actually pray for them. And I had my freedom within me, that they could throw me in a gas chamber any minute. I had no control over that. They would torture me and beat me, but they could never, ever murder my spirit. And that's what I bring you today.

• 6:31Edith Eger?

  That spiritual, wonderful, loving, forgiving person that is not having time to be against, but to be for something, for life, and for uniting, for empowering each other with our differences. That you can be you. You can like your own music, and I can like my music that you call supermarket music. I like the big band because I was liberated by the 71st Infantry, and I learned in 1945 how to dance the boogie woogie.

• 7:14Lewis Howes?

  All right.

• 7:15Edith Eger?

  You see?

• 7:15Lewis Howes?

  We'll have to dance when I meet you in person.

• 7:18Edith Eger?

  Yeah. So you can have your music, and I can have my music, and we can agree to disagree, and we can just empower each other with our differences at all times.

• 7:32Lewis Howes?

  I have so many things I want to ask you about, how you were able to have compassion and understanding and pity on the guards when you're in a moment of stress and chaos and fear for your life every day. And I would love to ask some of these practical questions later in this interview, but I'm curious if you could educate my audience and listeners about, a little bit about your story of how you even got into the camps and the whole process of your life before then to when you got there, what that was like.

• 8:02Edith Eger?

  Well, I was born into a Jewish family, and my parents had two beautiful girls, Magda, who is still alive, and Clara, who was a brilliant violinist. And my parents wanted a son, and I came along, so I was really a runt. And my sister sang songs about me because I was cross-eyed, that I'm ugly and puny. And my mother one day told me very seriously, "I'm glad that you have brains because you have no looks." And I think it's very important for people today to really see what messages they carry with them in their own head

• 8:47Edith Eger?

  so they can really recognize that you can rewrite your script. I'm not here to be angry at my mom, but I became a very erudite teenager. I read The Interpretation of Dreams by Freud. I had my book club and I had my boyfriend. And we worked together and we had our plans. How we're going to work as a team? And how we're going to get married? And that was, of course, all interrupted. I think it's important to say that unfortunately, we still have genocide as we speak.

• 9:32Edith Eger?

  But never in a history of mankind, such a scientific and systematic annihilation of people existed by fifteen highly educated people called the Final Solution, when they celebrated in the evening, that they are now able to find a way to put thirty thousand Jews in the oven in one day. And I'm part of that Final Solution of Eichmann. You see, we have a Nazi in every one of us. Find a Hitler in you

• 10:14Edith Eger?

  and find the Mother Teresa and the kindness and the goodness. It's all there. I think, God, you know, we are planted here in this earth and the baby water are plant. That's why I tell young people, don't spoke pot, because it's going to, unfortunately, interrupt the natural growth of your brain. Don't mess with your brain, because the best movie you can see is The Karate Kid, that the best power is brain power.

• 10:50Lewis Howes?

  Wax off, wax on.

• 10:52Edith Eger?

  Isn't it wonderful? Oh, the way he doesn't want to do and goes.

• 10:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 10:59Edith Eger?

  And that's what you learn in Auschwitz, that somehow you create your inner world, because during the day, I didn't know what will happen next. That's why we are so happy now. Because we don't know what's going to happen next. When I stood four o'clock in the morning, we didn't know how the day is going to be. We didn't know when we take a shower, whether gas is gonna come out or water is gonna come out. So that is really that uncertainty that we are experiencing now.

• 11:43Edith Eger?

  Because when you're angry, you give your power away.

• 11:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:47Edith Eger?

  There are lots of emotions under the anger. There is a lot of pain under the anger. And what we do with anger, we either vent it or suppress it. I like to dissolve it. See, once you're angry, you also are experiencing anxiety and most of all, a lot of fear. Anger is not a primary emotion. When I'm angry at you, you don't suffer, I do. I'm very selective who's gonna get my anger.

• 12:22Lewis Howes?

  I'm hearing you say we need to express our emotions, but what if anger is an emotion that we want to express? We can't suppress it. So how do we express an emotion?

• 12:32Edith Eger?

  Yeah, but everything is energy. Anger is energy in motion, yeah. Energy is something that you have to look at, that you look at your expectation, and then you look at reality. You see, there is a, maybe, have to look at again whether your expectations are realistic or unrealistic. And love is not what you feel, is what you do, that you commit yourself to someone else. I had my sister in Auschwitz. All we had was each other there. So we had to move beyond the me, me, me

• 13:16Edith Eger?

  and commit ourselves to each other and form a family of inmates. If you were just for the me, me, me, you didn't make it.

• 13:26Lewis Howes?

  In your book, you have a great message that your mom shared with you before, right when you were taken away. Yeah, what did she share with you?

• 13:36Edith Eger?

  When we were put on a cattle car, my boyfriend said to me, I will never forget your eyes and your hands. So in Auschwitz, I would say to myself, if I survive today and then tomorrow, I'm gonna be free. And I would ask everybody to tell me about my hands and about my eyes. And my mom told me in the car, she heard me and she said, "We don't know where we're going. We don't know what's waiting for us. Just remember, no one can take away from you what you put in your own mind." And that's exactly what happened.

• 14:21Edith Eger?

  Everything was taken away from me and I still had my mind and my sister.

• 14:28Lewis Howes?

  Was your boyfriend taken away at that point with you as well? Or did he?

• 14:31Edith Eger?

  My boyfriend was taken away in another wagon and he was shot a day before liberation.

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 14:42Edith Eger?

  So when I came home, the first thing I did, look for him. And I was told by someone who saw him being shot a day before liberation.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 14:56Edith Eger?

  Isn't it?

• 14:57Lewis Howes?

  That's heartbreaking.

• 14:58Edith Eger?

  It was. And when I was liberated and I was in a hospital and I was put in a cast and I could hardly breathe. But when I got up in the morning, I didn't say what. I said, "What for?" I had nothing to get up for. And this is that existential vacuum that also Viktor Frankl mentions. When you have no meaning in your life. I had no purpose in my life. My parents were not coming home. Reality hit me and I was very suicidal after I was liberated.

• 15:43Edith Eger?

  And I know when God told me, "If you're going to die..." You're not going to be able to experience the life that is ahead of you. You got to be for something. And that's when I began to really commit myself to be for life and for survival and for becoming a doctor now and being a member of the Healing Arts profession.

• 16:16Lewis Howes?

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• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  another School of Greatness alum. And Chris's class taught me invaluable interpersonal skills that are really paying dividends for my business and my brand. And you can access Masterclass as an app on your phone, web, or Apple TV. And I highly recommend you check it out. Get unlimited access to every Masterclass. And as a School of Greatness listener, you get 15% off the annual All-Access Pass. Go to masterclass.com/greatness. That's masterclass.com/greatness for 15% off Masterclass.

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  I can't even imagine what it would have been like to try to put yourself back together and find meaning and find purpose, especially at 17 years old, I think you were at that time, 17, 18.

• 17:47Edith Eger?

  Seventeen when I was liberated.

• 17:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:50Edith Eger?

  Sixteen when I entered Auschwitz, yes.

• 17:53Lewis Howes?

  How do you start to approach finding meaning, finding purpose, when all purpose has been lost, almost all family has been lost and taken from you?

• 18:03Edith Eger?

  Yeah, it's not about lost and found, it's really discovery, discovering something that no one can take away from you, and that is a discovery. And I hope that people are listening, and they can also find a time out to discover that even though many, many things didn't happen their way, and they could have killed themselves, because it's easier to die than to live, and yet you didn't. So I hope you can congratulate yourself, and because we go through the valley of the shadow of death,

• 18:45Edith Eger?

  but we don't camp there, we don't set up house or there. I'm not a victim, I was victimized. It's not my identity, it's what was done to me. A big difference, because when a woman comes to me who was sexually abused, I also became a diplomat in sexology many, many years ago, but if they tell me, "I don't know what to tell you, Edie, because I was sexually abused, but you were in Auschwitz", and my answer is, "You were more in prison than I was, because I knew the enemy."

• 19:27Lewis Howes?

  What was the enemy?

• 19:28Edith Eger?

  If you were touched inappropriately by a father or an uncle or somebody in the family, and you keep that secret, the opposite of depression is expression. What comes out of your body doesn't make you ill, what stays in there does.

• 19:50Edith Eger?

  That's why when people tell me many years, write a book, write a book. And I would say, I have nothing to say. I have nothing to say. So I encourage people, you have a lot to say, write a book. You're gonna feel much better. Because my book is now at the table of my great grandsons. And I have seven of those.

• 20:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:18Edith Eger?

  Isn't that wonderful?

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  Inspiring, yeah, it's amazing.

• 20:21Edith Eger?

  Never give up, never, ever give up.

• 20:23Lewis Howes?

  I love that, you're an inspiration. And you, you know, I um, I experienced sexual abuse when I was five years old by a man that I didn't know. It was the son of a babysitter that I went to. And it took me 25 years until I started to express. And for 25 years, I suppressed and depressed the emotions of that trauma and that story in my mind. And I was so ashamed that if anyone knew this about me, no one would love me or accept me as a human being. It was a story I continue to tell myself.

• 20:54Edith Eger?

  I love you for sharing that, because shame is awful.

• 20:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:59Edith Eger?

  Everything has to do with addiction, has to go back to shame. And really look at that shame, that you end up unfortunately even blaming you for something you never did. And unfortunately, I see that many perpetrators were also abused themselves. So we got to really look at everything from generation to generation, to the mother-son relationship. See, I hold you beautifully as a mother, but your father has a different relationship with you.

• 21:43Edith Eger?

  Because when you're a little boy, you look at your father and you make a decision.

• 21:50Edith Eger?

  That you wanna be just like him, or you wanna be everything he's not. So when you grow up, you may become this wonderful person in your profession, and you give up the need for your father's approval. But when you say, "I'm never gonna be like my father", then you want to prove something. And if you want to prove something, you're still a prisoner.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, that rings true to me because for most of my life, I was trying to prove people wrong. I was trying to prove the kids who picked on me wrong, the person who sexually abused me. And it was never fulfilling. I would prove them wrong by achieving or accomplishing, and then I would feel unfulfilled and angrier after the fact.

• 22:38Edith Eger?

  You win the battle and you lose the war.

• 22:41Lewis Howes?

  That's how I felt for so many years, until seven years ago, I started to express and open up and start the healing journey.

• 22:49Edith Eger?

  Thank you.

• 22:50Lewis Howes?

  And it's like everything started to shift where I was like, I no longer want to prove people wrong, but I want to lift others up and help others heal. And I'm curious, it took me 25 years from my traumatic experience until I was able to face it and address it internally and start talking about it openly to heal. How long did it take for you to start facing the trauma that was inside of you from this experience? And what was that process like when you started?

• 23:23Edith Eger?

  One thing I say that I never forget what happened. It's my cherished wound, but I don't overcome it. I come to terms with it. There is a difference. So when you say I overcame, I'm going to tell you that you just don't allow it to control your life anymore. So you have your cherished wound, and I have mine in our hearts. But don't try to overcome. Just make a decision that you're not gonna give another inch. And what you do give up is revenge.

• 24:04Edith Eger?

  Because forgiveness is not you forgiving him for what he did to you. You're forgiving yourself and you give yourself a gift not to carry that animal or that perpetrator, that you let him go. Letting go is really the definition of love in my vocabulary.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 24:30Edith Eger?

  The definition of love to me is the ability to let go.

• 24:36Lewis Howes?

  To release.

• 24:38Edith Eger?

  But don't run from it, don't fight it, face it. And when the feelings come up, invite it in. It's okay to, there is no forgiveness without rage. You got to, you got to, you got to feel that rage. Don't be afraid to rage.

• 24:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Edith Eger?

  Don't have a drink to calm down, no. Scream it out. The opposite of depression is expression.

• 25:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Edith Eger?

  And you're not revolving, you're evolving. Just like a butterfly, we go through the metamorphosis and then we shed the chrysalis so we can fly freely.

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Edith Eger?

  Like a butterfly. I love butterflies. I am full of butterflies all over my house.

• 25:28Lewis Howes?

  I love that. How long did it take for you to start to truly face it and embrace that trauma? Was it quickly after, was it years or decades?

• 25:39Edith Eger?

  Not until I worked with two paraplegics, both Vietnam veterans. And one of them was in a fetal position, seeking revenge and angry and cursing country and God. And the other one said to me, you know, doc, I am sitting in a wheelchair and I'm so grateful that my God gave me a second chance in life. I can see my children's eyes much closer. And the flowers I can reach much easier.

• 26:24Edith Eger?

  And I am wearing a white coat. And it says Dr. Eger, Department of Psychiatry. And I feel like a biggest imposter. Because I kept my secret for at least 20 years. Never told anyone I was in Auschwitz.

• 26:48Lewis Howes?

  Really? You didn't tell anyone?

• 26:49Edith Eger?

  No, because I wanted to be you. I wanted to be a Yankee Doodle Dandy. I wanted to speak English without an accent. I spent three years at the university trying to get rid of my accent. Look how far I have gotten. And then I decided to go back to Auschwitz. Because I realized I could not get them further than I have gone myself.

• 27:16Lewis Howes?

  What year did you go back to Auschwitz?

• 27:18Edith Eger?

  Sometimes in the 70s.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  So 30 years after you were there?

• 27:22Edith Eger?

  Yes.

• 27:23Lewis Howes?

  Roughly, 25, 30 years?

• 27:24Edith Eger?

  Yes, you know, I'd graduated with honors, cum laude. And I never showed up for my graduation. Because I didn't forgive myself that I survived.

• 27:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 27:37Edith Eger?

  See, I didn't need a Hitler. I had one in me.

• 27:40Lewis Howes?

  You didn't go to graduation because you didn't, you didn't feel like you deserved it?

• 27:45Edith Eger?

  Because I had survivor's guilt that I survived and they didn't.

• 27:50Lewis Howes?

  And why should you be celebrating?

• 27:52Edith Eger?

  Exactly, exactly. So I think that we are our own biggest enemy. And the biggest concentration camp is in our own mind. And the key is in your pocket.

• 28:08Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's interesting, Edie, I, my brother went to prison when I was eight years old for four and a, for four and a half years. He, he was, he sold drugs to an undercover cop and went to prisons, uh, back in the nineteen nineties when the war on drugs was a big thing. And growing up in a small town in Ohio, I didn't know anyone else who had went to prison as an eight-year-old. And so it was a traumatic experience for myself, our entire family, that this happened to one of our family members. And I remember going to the prison almost every weekend to visit him. There was visiting hours and we could go and see.

• 28:45Edith Eger?

  Good, good for you.

• 28:47Lewis Howes?

  Since then, so I've been.

• 28:48Edith Eger?

  To see you the healer. You show up.

• 28:51Lewis Howes?

  I try to do my best.

• 28:53Edith Eger?

  You show up.

• 28:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I have been to a prison here in, near Los Angeles a few times as well to work with inmates to help them take off, take off the masks that hold them back, the emotional mask.

• 29:07Edith Eger?

  You change their lives.

• 29:09Lewis Howes?

  I, I'm do, I'm doing my part the best. And I, when I was there, I realized that some of these men who are, have a life sentence in prison, who are not going to get out, have found, have found peace and healing within.

• 29:23Edith Eger?

  Yeah.

• 29:24Lewis Howes?

  And they are in a prison for life, but they have found a way to create peace in their mind and not be in a prison.

• 29:32Edith Eger?

  Yeah.

• 29:32Lewis Howes?

  And yet there are some of us in the outside world who have certain freedoms physically, but mentally we're in a concentration camp or a prison, like you mentioned. Why do you think we put ourselves in a mental prison?

• 29:46Edith Eger?

  I think some of us do not think that we deserve. So when it's good, it's bad. They don't even know how to really enjoy something. They, I call these people, yes, but. Yes, but, yes, but, and I say, give me the but, I give you an and. Yes, and, you know, I clean up people's English. That yes, and furthermore, you know, and it's not why me, but what now? I can only touch you now.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  What advice would you give to someone who is experiencing some type of traumatic event? No matter, and not to compare trauma, but when someone goes through a breakup or a loss of expectations, which might be traumatic, or a near death, or a death in the family, or any type of event, abuse emotionally, sexually, physically, what advice would you have for them from the moment they have that trauma? On what they should be doing next, what steps?

• 30:52Edith Eger?

  I think the work that I do has to do with three things. Grieving, feeling, and healing. You cannot heal what you don't feel. Don't medicate grief, ever. It's not clinical depression. You know, when I teach at a medical school, that's the first thing I say. Please don't medicate grief. It's a natural reaction to a loss.

• 31:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, grieving, feeling, healing.

• 31:29Edith Eger?

  And healing, and healing, and it's a lifelong process. And grieving has to do with acknowledging that you expected one thing and you got another, and you were told one thing, and then...

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  It didn't happen, yeah.

• 31:50Edith Eger?

  And it didn't happen.

• 31:51Lewis Howes?

  How do we learn to grieve better? So that we don't shame ourselves for grieving? Or shame ourselves for not being more positive when something traumatic happens? What's the, what's a good process that we...

• 32:04Edith Eger?

  Oh, just cry?

• 32:07Edith Eger?

  Crying is healing because what comes out of your body doesn't make you ill. What stays in there does. So what we do with anger, we either vent it, suppress it. I like you to dissolve it. Anger is not a dirty word. It's okay. It's okay. It's how long you're gonna hold on to it. But don't deny it. Don't run from it.

• 32:38Lewis Howes?

  How do we express anger in a relationship from a lost expectation? In a healthier way where it's more dissolved as opposed to you did this and you did this and you were that and you were wrong. And because some people might interpret that and say, well, I'm just expressing my anger like Dr. Edie told me to. But how do we? How do we communicate anger where we don't suppress it, but we get it out in a loving, healthier way?

• 33:07Edith Eger?

  When in English language, someone says you, you're gonna be dumped on. Just remember, you're gonna be dumped on. Now you think of me. I'm on your shoulder and say to yourself, the longer they talk, the more relaxed I become. You take the negative stimuli, immediately turned it into positive.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:35Edith Eger?

  I am practicing my low frustration tolerance level.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  Okay. How do?

• 33:42Edith Eger?

  I'm not a shrink, I'm a stretch. You know, you stretch your comfort zone. That's what I learned in Auschwitz, to stretch the comfort zone. Only children blame. While you blame, you're still a child.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:02Edith Eger?

  I don't care how old you are. You can be 20, 40, or 80. You did this to me. You made me angry. Try to make me angry and I'm gonna tell you, I'm very selective who's gonna ever get my anger.

• 34:19Lewis Howes?

  Do you, do you feel anger today? And do you, how do you personally express it? If someone says they're gonna do something, but they let you down? If? You don't see something in the world that's happening that's unjust. You know, how do you express this where it's not that thing having power over you, but you expressing your feelings?

• 34:39Edith Eger?

  What you can really do with another person, you let them know what their behavior, what effect their behavior has on you and how you feel and what would you like instead? You go to solution.

• 34:58Lewis Howes?

  Not defensiveness.

• 34:59Edith Eger?

  Have you learned, then you learn to negotiate and compromise. If you're not willing to negotiate and compromise, don't get married.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  That's good advice.

• 35:13Edith Eger?

  Yeah, because there is no such thing as truth. There is my truth and your truth.

• 35:20Lewis Howes?

  And all relationship is going to have compromise and negotiation.

• 35:25Edith Eger?

  I think that we can really have a relationship that is based on commonalities. See, look at Romeo and Juliet. We marry people we don't know. Most marriages are based on faulty expectations. There is a gap between expectation and reality. And then you have to look at expectation, whether you are realistic or unrealistic. You cannot give me what you don't have. See, sometimes we women think

• 36:05Edith Eger?

  that he's going to be giving me everything and anything at any time. And there is no such one person. We're limited. I, I can give you in my limited capacity. And that's why it's good to ask for what you want and let the other person know what's in it for them. And you make a deal. If you do this, I'll give you that. If you wash the dishes, we'll have more time together. You know, make it a... So that the other person really would like to give of themselves,

• 36:47Edith Eger?

  rather than waiting for someone else to make you happy. Nobody will make you happy. You make yourself happy because self-love is self-care. It's not narcissistic. Narcissistic people don't like themselves. Do you love yourself? I want you to get up in the morning and look in the mirror and say, "Louis, I love you, I honor you. There'll never be another you." That's exciting to me, very exciting, that you're one of a kind diamond in a rough, yes.

• 37:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:28Edith Eger?

  You have a lot to look forward to.

• 37:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:32Edith Eger?

  You were victimized, remembered. It's not who you are, and I'm so sorry. And yet, I'm so grateful that I'm talking to a brilliant interviewer who is sharing himself with me. That's really a gift to me.

• 37:51Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate that.

• 37:52Edith Eger?

  I'm going to really cherish this interview because you put yourself into it, and that's what it's all about.

• 38:00Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate that, thank you. And I want to follow up to the conversation we're having about happiness just now. When we expect someone else to bring us happiness in a relationship, what does that do to us? And how do we learn to love ourselves and find happiness, whether the other person brings us joy or not, in your opinion?

• 38:22Edith Eger?

  Beautiful. Dependency breeds depression. If I wait for you to make me happy, I'm never gonna be happy. And what is happy? Who is happy now with all this turmoil? And when children are being taken away from their parents? When we have all these millions of people who are unfortunately falling into that terrible COVID-19, you know? I mean, what is... It's such a general word. I don't really know how I want to use that word. Am I happy? Well, I'm cheerful, I do the best I can.

• 39:04Edith Eger?

  But I don't know, this word happy is very general.

• 39:09Lewis Howes?

  You mentioned about Auschwitz as the best classroom for you.

• 39:13Edith Eger?

  For me, yes.

• 39:15Lewis Howes?

  As the best classroom.

• 39:16Edith Eger?

  My best education. You know, there is an EQ and an IQ. Thank God, I have both. Because I did graduate with cum laude. But the work I do has to do from one survivor to another. And together, we're gonna be stronger. So I hold your precious hand. And we're going to revisit the places where you've been. And you're gonna tell it to me as if it would happen now. See, when I would work with you, I would ask you to be five years old. So you can really feel that feeling, that you're powerless. And you don't even think that there is something wrong with it either.

• 40:01Edith Eger?

  Because anybody who touches you and it feels good, you know, we build that way. But it's very important not to suppress and keep that secret. Secrets are really unfortunately running in families. And that's not good at all.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:21Edith Eger?

  I hope this is a time out when people can share and get it out. What comes out to your body will never make you ill. What stays in there does.

• 40:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Edith Eger?

  Maybe you can run groups for men.

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Edith Eger?

  And you can meet and recognize just how much you have in common. The man's brain is very different from ours. You know, the hemisphere, the left and right hemisphere is different in a male than a female. That's why men want to understand everything. I want to feel something, and I come to the feelings. I don't ask, "How can I help you ever?" I say, "How can I be useful to you?" Because I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing it with you.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  So should I stop asking, "How can I support you?" And say, "How can I be useful?"

• 41:22Edith Eger?

  Yeah, "How can I be useful to you?" And... How can I help you? It's like Humpty Dumpty, I'm gonna put you back together again. There is no such thing, I'm not Humpty Dumpty. And I cannot do anything with you unless you're willing, that's a very good word, willing, to be willing, to revisit the places where you went. But I'm there with you now. You're not there, you're here with me. You're safe with me. I provide the atmosphere. I had a fourteen-year-old young boy, who was a member of David Koresh in Texas.

• 42:06Edith Eger?

  So he came to me and said, "I'm a boot boy." You know, I know nothing about boots. But I looked at his boots and I acknowledged it. And then he got up and he put his elbow on my desk and said, "Hey doc, it's time for America to be white again. I'm gonna kill all the Jews,"

• 42:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 42:28Edith Eger?

  "all the," using the N-word, "all the Muskins and all the Chinkos." See, if I would have reacted, I would have dragged that boy into the corner. I would have stepped on him and tell him, "How dare you talk to me like that?" Because I saw my mother going to the gas chamber. But you know, I spoke to God in Auschwitz, my spirit, my Tinker Bell, my free spirit. Because people don't come to me, they're sent to me. And the most obnoxious person is your best teacher. So I asked God, "What is the meaning of this?"

• 43:13Edith Eger?

  And God told me, "Find the bigot in you." And I said, "It's impossible." I came to America penniless. I worked in a factory in 1949. They gave me seven cents a dozen to cut off boxer shorts.

• 43:32Edith Eger?

  I became the breadwinner because my husband ended up in a hospital. But when I went to the bathroom, one of them sat collared. And I didn't realize that in America, we have prejudice. Prejudice means to prejudge. And so I tell God, "It's impossible." You see, I'm not a prejudiced because I came to America and I joined the NAACP and I marched with one Luther King. It didn't do any good to me. God said, "Find the bigger in you." And not until I created an environment for that 14-year-old young boy who lost all his freedom

• 44:17Edith Eger?

  to this David Koresh joining the white supremacy neo-Nazi group. And I said, "Tell me more." And he never knew because I created the loving environment of the mother he never had. And so this is it, you know, creating the environment for anyone that you are with that they can truly trust you and put even their lives in your hand. But it was very difficult in Auschwitz to put your life into the Nazis' hands. So, you know, you have to be selective. And I think you can now

• 45:02Edith Eger?

  create the young people in America to be for something, to be for uniting, to be good role models. And I think you're a wonderful role model.

• 45:17Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 45:17Edith Eger?

  So I hope that this is your calling. This is not my job because if you have a job, you want to make the most amount of money with the least amount of work, right? But your calling, I never look at the clock. I don't do this 45-minute hour and I don't see one person after another. I give as much time.

• 45:45Edith Eger?

  Time, time, that's what love is. T I M E. It's a four-letter wonderful word. But you need time with you. See what your head is telling you. Your body talks to you all the time. And the body never lies.

• 46:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Edith Eger?

  I guarantee you.

• 46:06Lewis Howes?

  What was your body telling you in Auschwitz? Did you feel like you had any hope at all? Was all hope gone?

• 46:14Edith Eger?

  To turn hatred into pity.

• 46:16Lewis Howes?

  How did you have that wisdom at sixteen?

• 46:19Edith Eger?

  I think, I think I had a loving God. I call Tinker Bell, the free spirit. That, that I still had a choice.

• 46:31Lewis Howes?

  Do you think that's what kept you alive during that time was having?

• 46:34Edith Eger?

  That kept me totally alive. Because they took my blood a lot. And I asked one time, why are you taking my blood? And he spoke to me in German. That I'm taking your blood to aid the German soldiers. So we can win the war. And take over the world, especially America. I didn't yank my arm away, of course, I wouldn't be here telling you. But I said to myself, you stupid idiot. I was a coming ballerina. With my blood, you're never gonna win the war. So I had my humor within me.

• 47:19Edith Eger?

  Not sarcasm or cynicism. But kind of philosophical humor. That I still had my spirit.

• 47:30Edith Eger?

  Telling myself that I know better. My blood is not gonna ever help you to win the war. So you see, again, the choice.

• 47:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:40Edith Eger?

  The choice.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  What are some of the greatest lessons you learned during that year? Some of the mental practices you discovered yourself? Or maybe that you witnessed from a friend or someone who was in there with you?

• 47:53Edith Eger?

  With me was a lovely girl from Yugoslavia. And we were both very proud nationalists. I was a very proud Hungarian. And she was a very proud. Member of Yugoslavia. And she told me that we're going to be liberated by Christmas. And Christmas came, and we were not liberated. She died the next day. Don't set yourself up to something that has to happen. Have as many choices as possible. That taught me tremendous amount.

• 48:34Edith Eger?

  How not to think black and white, all or nothing. Look at all the options. The more choices you have, the less you feel like a victim. It's a very good question. You ask very good question.

• 48:52Lewis Howes?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 48:53Edith Eger?

  You're a great interviewer.

• 48:55Lewis Howes?

  Thank you. How do you create multiple choices? When all of your choices are taken away, in theory?

• 49:01Edith Eger?

  In Europe, we used to ask, is it good for the Jews? You know, but you can ask yourself, is this the best I can do? And chances are, that's not the only thing that you can do. That there are other choices. That you're willing to maybe settle for something different. Hopefully, that you are realistic, but not idealistic.

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  Realistic, not idealistic.

• 49:30Edith Eger?

  Idealistic, because when the idealists don't find what they're looking for, they become sarcastic, cynical. Hungarians are very sarcastic, very cynical.

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  In your book, the book is amazing, and I want everyone to get it. But you talk about 12 imprisoning beliefs.

• 49:53Edith Eger?

  Yes.

• 49:53Lewis Howes?

  And I don't want to go into all 12, but can you share one or two that really stand out for you? And then I want to talk about a couple of tools that you use that I like.

• 50:04Edith Eger?

  Are you evolving or revolving? My daughter calls it idiism. And I had someone who went to a marathon.

• 50:16Edith Eger?

  And somehow, in the middle, she stopped. And she told she's not gonna be able to make it. But then she ran to my office and said, "Dr. Eger, I did it, I did it. I said what you told me to say. Yes, I am, yes, I can, yes, I will. So you're gonna find that somewhere." The other thing I told you, that there is no forgiveness without rage. You gotta go through that rage and see whether you are ready to forgive. Because it's not up to me to forgive you.

• 50:55Edith Eger?

  It's up to me to be actually able to be for myself and for my self-needs to be free, that I give myself a gift. See, I don't have any godly power to forgive you or anyone else, but I do what's humanly possible and then hand it over. So that would be a good one. Forgiveness would be very, very important. The other is to, how do you find hope in hopelessness? I think that's very important, very, very, very important.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  That's very challenging.

• 51:39Edith Eger?

  And seeing, you know, don't cover garlic with chocolate. Don't put paprika on whipped cream. You know, it's just see, see how you can find balance between working, loving, and playing.

• 51:54Lewis Howes?

  You have a tool or an exercise where you say, create a chart and...

• 51:59Edith Eger?

  Exactly.

• 52:00Lewis Howes?

  I love your exercise on forgiveness where you ask the person to write two letters to someone who hurts you.

• 52:08Edith Eger?

  Exactly.

• 52:09Lewis Howes?

  Can you share what those two letters are?

• 52:10Edith Eger?

  Yeah, well, the first letter is all the rage that you have.

• 52:16Lewis Howes?

  Get it out, get it out.

• 52:18Edith Eger?

  Yes, yeah, you can, because you're not gonna, just get it out. Scream it out, you SOB and use whatever you can do.

• 52:29Edith Eger?

  How could you do this to me? And just get it all out, okay? And because once it's out, you're gonna feel better. That's why the opposite of depression is expression. You're gonna feel better if you get the vomit out. And then you write a love letter. Then you like what you are for, rather than what you're against. And so that's why two letters is better than one letter. But the one letter is very essential to get rid of the poison that is in your mind.

• 53:04Lewis Howes?

  So write an anger letter of the things that they did to hurt you or upset you or let you down, let it, get it all out. And then write a love letter where you're finding things to appreciate about what you're learning from that experience.

• 53:16Edith Eger?

  And it's okay to be disappointed as long as you don't allow it to lead it to discouragement. And it's okay to be angry as long as it doesn't lead to resentment.

• 53:30Lewis Howes?

  What happens when we hold on to resentment?

• 53:32Edith Eger?

  It's eating us up. It's not a sign of self-love, it's self-hate.

• 53:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow, self-love does not include resentment?

• 53:42Edith Eger?

  No.

• 53:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's a powerful distinction.

• 53:46Edith Eger?

  It's okay to be angry, but how long you're gonna hold on? It's up to you because you're hurting you. You have to be a good mommy to you. And good mommies don't criticize. Don't, good mommies don't say, "Yes, but..." "You're very handsome, but you're fat. But you're pimply." No, "Yes, but..." "Yes, and..." "You're one of a kind, beautiful, God's child, and you were planted here as a seed. If I don't water my flowers in my backyard in this heat, it's gonna die."

• 54:30Edith Eger?

  What do you use for water? Did you have a good breakfast? Did you have your protein shake? Or did you have a donut with a coke?

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  I've got a few final questions for you. I'm really inspired by this conversation and I hope we can do this in person in the future. What was it like for you when you finally learned to forgive the Nazis and the people that killed your parents and your friends and your community? What was that like for you? The feeling of forgiveness?

• 55:01Edith Eger?

  I have a feeling that the forgiveness with me at sixteen started in Auschwitz. Just remember, when we were evacuated and go from one place to another and I was used carrying ammunition on the top of a train for the Nazis so they wouldn't bomb, but they bombed anyway. So we went from one place to another and we ended up in April, somewhere near Austria, and we were put in a German village. And we were told that if we dare to leave the premises... We were put into a kind of a community hall upstairs.

• 55:46Edith Eger?

  If you dare to leave the premises, you're gonna be shot right away. But my sister told me, "If you don't get some food, I'm gonna die." See, she was more hungry than I was. I was skinnier, but I was a gymnast. So I didn't care about that. I went outside and I saw some carrots in the next garden. I had no respect for other people's property. I was still a gymnast and I jumped and I stole the carrots. Can you picture me do that? And I'm climbing the wall and I made the guard with a gun.

• 56:28Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What happened?

• 56:30Edith Eger?

  I never held a gun in my life and I heard the clicking three times and I began to pray, not for me. And somehow, there was an eye contact and he turned his gun around. And pushed me inside, but I had the carrots. I give the carrots to Magda. The following morning, he comes and says, "Who dared to break the rules?" And I'm thinking, "Who knows? He'll make kill all of us. I better go." And I'm crawling to him. I can't even walk, I'm crawling. And I said, "It was me."

• 57:13Edith Eger?

  "German people are starving." He gives me a little loaf of bread. "I wish I could find that man." He said, "You must have been hungry to do what you did." There were good people. I met the diamond in that garbage place. Yeah, isn't that amazing?

• 57:32Lewis Howes?

  It's unbelievable.

• 57:33Edith Eger?

  I'm telling you that if I could meet that man today, I mean, I cannot tell you. I don't know how old he was and I don't know if he's still alive. But please, if ever anybody can hear that story, I'd want to see that man.

• 57:52Lewis Howes?

  What would you say to him?

• 57:53Edith Eger?

  Who could have killed me because he was told to kill. I would tell him that, that I want to thank him for my life. Because we never knew, any minute, we were told every day in Auschwitz that the only way we'll get out of here is a corpse. So when people tell you anything, all you have to do is put an "I" in front of it. "You this, you that." Just put an "I" that they're talking about themselves.

• 58:25Lewis Howes?

  What was the greatest lesson the Nazis taught you?

• 58:29Edith Eger?

  Oh, how to not allow anybody to poison me, how not to allow anybody to brainwash.

• 58:41Edith Eger?

  And... And how to question authority and never adhere blindly to authority. Yes, taught me everything I practice today has to do to be for life and for freedom. Freedom is my word, freedom from the concentration camp that is in your own mind.

• 59:11Lewis Howes?

  And what does freedom mean to you?

• 59:13Edith Eger?

  Freedom means to be my true self, to be God's precious, loving seed that was planted here for me to give to the world what can happen when good people do bad things.

• 59:34Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I want to make sure everyone gets your book.

• 59:38Edith Eger?

  Thank you.

• 59:38Lewis Howes?

  They can get the book called The Gift, 12 Lessons to Save Your Life. I've got two quick questions if that's okay for you.

• 59:45Edith Eger?

  Sure.

• 59:46Lewis Howes?

  And before I ask the questions, I just want to acknowledge you, Edie, for being an incredible gift to myself, to and to the world, the work you continue to do to serve, to inspire the world and to really showcase your story and your teaching and your lessons and your wisdom.

• 1:00:04Edith Eger?

  Well, I'd like to say that I'm a Christian Martin Luther King and I too have a dream that we can unite, that we can empower each other with our differences. I don't give up on that, so I'm hoping that your interview with me will be with someone who is an ambassador for peace and goodwill.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course, I'm all for it.

• 1:00:35Edith Eger?

  I don't have time to hate because if I would hate, I would still be a hostage or a prisoner of the past. I don't live in Auschwitz, I don't live in the past. I'd like to maybe emphasize that one person can make a difference like Gandhi. He took the whole British Empire down to their knees without any bloodshed.

• 1:01:02Lewis Howes?

  Ah, I'm on the same mission with you.

• 1:01:04Edith Eger?

  Right.

• 1:01:05Lewis Howes?

  We'll work together.

• 1:01:07Edith Eger?

  I hope that you let them know that you have someone here who has been through it and able to somehow turn tragedy into a victory of how we can look at anything in life, not a problem but a challenge, not a crisis but a transition.

• 1:01:34Lewis Howes?

  I'm all for it. That's what I'm here to do. This question I ask everyone is at the end called the three truths. And I would like you to imagine that you've accomplished everything you want to accomplish and you continue to live a very long, healthy life, accomplishing more, writing more books, helping people. But I'd like you to imagine that on your last day, everything you've ever created has to go with you to the next place. So all of your work, your books, your interviews, they go with you to the next place. And you get to leave behind though, three lessons that you know to be true about your entire life. Lessons that you would leave behind. This is all we would have to remember you by.

• 1:02:18Lewis Howes?

  What would you say are those three key lessons that you'd want to leave behind?

• 1:02:23Edith Eger?

  Love, joy, and passion for life and purpose.

• 1:02:30Lewis Howes?

  I love that. And what would you say, this is my final question, what would you say is your definition of greatness?

• 1:02:36Edith Eger?

  Oh, just to be your one of a kind, unique, authentic person that will never, ever was in a million years before or after you. That's really something to wow about. Yeah.

• 1:02:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Dr. Edith, I really appreciate your time and

• 1:02:57Edith Eger?

  I appreciate you very much.

• 1:02:59Lewis Howes?

  It's been a joy. Your book's amazing. My producer Ben

• 1:03:03Edith Eger?

  Keep on, keep on, keep on.

• 1:03:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course. And hopefully we can meet in person soon and do another one in the future. So.

• 1:03:10Edith Eger?

  There'll never be another you. Thank you so much.

• 1:03:13Lewis Howes?

  Thank you, Dr. Edith.

• 1:03:14Edith Eger?

  Much love to you.

• 1:03:16Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so, so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, make sure to subscribe to the School of Greatness on Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating and review and share this. The best way that you can inspire and impact other people is by sharing this message so they can be inspired and impacted as well. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this show, or you can share the link lewishouse.com/1010 to send them directly to this episode. If you want inspirational messages from me every single week, just text me right now the word PODCAST to 614-350-3960, and I'm going to send you a text message that'll inspire you and motivate you every single week. And I

• 1:03:59Lewis Howes?

  want to close with a quote from Edie herself in her book, The Gift, where she said, "Hope isn't a distraction from darkness. It's a confrontation with darkness." If you've felt any type of trauma, darkness, loneliness, or pain in your life, then you know how powerful her words are, and I highly recommend you check out her book and read it for yourself. And if you know the pain that you've felt in your past, just know that other people are feeling that as well. The best way you can support them is by being kind, by being loving, by being nonjudgmental, and by finding ways to lift them up. And I want to remind you today that if no one has told you lately, you are loved, you matter, and you are worthy.

• 1:04:44Lewis Howes?

  I'm so grateful for you, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.