Pod Insights Scamfluencers Francois-Marie Banier: The French Connection Part 2 | 156 About this episode Francois-Marie Banier is facing an uphill battle in French courts when he learns he’s being sued by Liliane Bettencourt’s only daughter, Francoise. When the French media learn of the accusations of financial abuse against the L’Oreal heiress, he becomes the butt of a joke, twisting the L’Oreal slogan, “Because he’s worth it.” But thanks to a nosy butler and 20 hours of secret recordings, a new scandal overtakes Francois-Marie’s melodrama: Mediapart, a scrappy, new newspaper, gets a hold of the recordings and accusations fly, this time sweeping up Nicholas Sarkozy and a web of alleged illegal campaign donations, tax shelters, and new villains in the massive tangle that is the Bettencourt Affair.
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0:15 Sarah Hagi? Sachi, what would you do if a personal drama got so out of hand it ended up involving the prime minister? I have endeavored for my personal dramas to end up on the prime minister's desk. I think I've gotten pretty close. Yeah, that's why, honestly, I'd be impressed, and I wouldn't be totally surprised at all. I think he knows who I am, and I think he doesn't want to admit it. And I understand the impulse. Yeah, if you guys saw each other on the street, he would avert his eyes. I mean, so would I. So would I. Well, last week, we talked about how novelist and photographer François-Marie Banier became best friends with billionaire L'Oréal heiress Liliane Bettencourt. Only Liliane's daughter was not so happy about it.
0:59 Sarah Hagi? She feels like her inheritance might be at risk. And this week, we're going to hear about how this family feud spills into the public sphere in the most French way possible.
1:14 Sarah Hagi? It's late December 2007 in the suburbs of Paris. Olivier Metzner is smoking a cigar in the backseat of a Jaguar. Olivier is in his late 50s and is one of France's most feared criminal attorneys. He's got silver hair, glasses, and a face deeply lined from frowning at his legal opponents. Today, his driver is taking him to the office of a state prosecutor. We've actually met Olivier before, Sachi. He was the lawyer and lover of Alexandre Despailly from our "Death Becomes Him" episode. But now Olivier is working on one of the trickiest and most sensitive cases of his career. That's actually why he's here today.
1:59 Sarah Hagi? The situation is so delicate that he wants to hand-deliver the documents to the prosecutor himself.
2:06 Sarah Hagi? Olivier sits across from the prosecutor and lays a thick stack of legal documents on the desk between them. He explains the basic facts. A woman thinks her mom is suffering from dementia and being financially abused by a man posing as her friend. So she's suing the man, a high-profile photographer named François-Marie Banier, for the harm he's caused. But what makes this case so sensitive is the victim, Liliane Bettencourt, the heiress to the L'Oréal fortune and the richest woman in the world. Olivier has testimonies from several of the family's staff members, who all insist that François-Marie is extorting Liliane. With so many accusations and a detailed accounting of the hundreds of millions of dollars
2:51 Sarah Hagi? Liliane has given to François-Marie, Olivier thinks he has a slam dunk case. But like most French things, it is complicated. Because Liliane insists she's not a victim. She says François-Marie is her best friend. She wants to share her wealth with him. And while some people think she's suffering from dementia, there's no hard proof, partially because Liliane is refusing medical exams.
3:18 Scaachi Koul? This is tough because I feel like if a bunch of people told me I was nuts and I needed to see a doctor, I would also be like, "I'm not seeing that doctor."
3:26 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's really tricky. It's a true gray zone. While Olivier leaves a prosecutor's office feeling confident, but what he doesn't know is that his legal dossier is going to ignite one of the biggest, messiest legal firestorms France has ever seen. As the story unravels, he'll find himself investigating not only a photographer, but also some of France's most powerful politicians. This petty family feud is about to lead to dramatic double-crosses that will upend France's political landscape and land more than one person in prison.
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4:55 Sarah Hagi? From Wondery, I'm Sarah Haggie. And I'm Sachi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers.
5:08 Sarah Hagi? In part one, François-Marie Banier and Liliane Bettencourt began a decades-long friendship full of art and lavish gifts. But this didn't sit well with Liliane's daughter, leading to a dispute over money, inheritance, and power. Now, with one of the country's most influential families locked in a standoff, people start to pick sides. The power struggle inside Liliane's mansion quickly becomes a national scandal, dominating headlines and upending the political order in France. And soon, an opportunistic photographer will be the least of Liliane Bettencourt's troubles. I'm calling this François-Marie Banier: The French Connection, Part Two.
5:54 Sarah Hagi? It's January 2008 in the Bettencourt mansion outside Paris. 85-year-old Liliane is sitting in bed when Pascal, the family butler, knocks on her door.
6:06 Sarah Hagi? He walks in and hands her a letter from her daughter Françoise. Liliane tears the letter open, and as she starts to read, her jaw drops. In the letter, Françoise details the legal action she's taking against her mother's best friend, the now 60-year-old photographer François-Marie Baignet. But this isn't a simple civil lawsuit, it's a criminal one. And if François-Marie is found guilty, he could get three years in prison, plus a fine of nearly 400,000 euros. Liliane feels betrayed, because this isn't just coming from her daughter. Seven family staff members gave witness testimonies supporting Françoise's claims. Now, Liliane's own employees are moving against her.
6:51 Sarah Hagi? Liliane takes a deep breath and keeps reading. Françoise, her daughter, writes that François-Marie is only pretending to be Liliane's friend for financial gain. She accuses him of willfully isolating Liliane from her family. She adds that allegedly, a maid recently overheard François-Marie asking the billionaire to adopt him. And this is what Françoise finds the most concerning. She signs a letter, "Your daughter, who loves you."
7:19 Scaachi Koul? Didn't we talk about this adoption in the last episode? Like, did this actually happen between the two of them?
7:25 Sarah Hagi? Liliane and François-Marie both deny that any talk of adoption ever took place. So Liliane is furious. She's known for years that Françoise is jealous of her friendship with François-Marie. She also knows that some staff members think he's rude, but she doesn't care. He's everything to her. And regardless of what people think, she still has autonomy over her choices. She has every right to give gifts to a friend who stood by her for 20 years. Liliane goes to her desk and writes a furious reply in her signature green ink. She tells her daughter how much this friendship means to her, and how much it also meant to her late husband, André.
8:07 Sarah Hagi? She ends by telling Françoise that, quote, "A suit against François-Marie is a suit against me."
8:14 Sarah Hagi? In a follow-up letter, Liliane is even more riled up, and she starts making threats. If François moves forward with the lawsuit, Liliane will take back some of the L'Oréal stocks she set aside for François and her children. She continues to insist that François-Marie is important to her beyond measure, saying, quote, "It's thanks to him that I did not remain locked in the conventional milieu that I seem destined to by my situation and fortune." She closes the letter by calling it her "final warning."
8:45 Scaachi Koul? I mean, I guess Liliane doesn't know who to trust. Like, everybody wants something from her, and she must feel like, okay, but this is someone who wants something from you, sure, but I enjoy spending time with them, and I'm happy to give it to them.
8:57 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I feel like it's so complicated and so overblown. But Liliane is not done. She starts another letter, this time addressing it to the prosecutor overseeing the case. She urges him to stop the proceedings, stating that her daughter is just jealous and that the gifts she's made to François-Marie are totally reasonable when compared to the size of her fortune, which is around 17 billion euros in 2008. She also encloses letters from two doctors who agree she's of sound mind. Liliane is determined to prove that her friendship with François-Marie is healing her, not hurting her. But even the power of friendship isn't enough to stop an investigation.
9:41 Sarah Hagi? And soon, François-Marie will have a bigger authority to prove his good intentions to: the police.
9:50 Sarah Hagi? A few weeks after Liliane and her daughter exchanged tense letters, François-Marie is lying in bed. He still lives in the building in Paris that Liliane bought for him 14 years ago. And even though it's 6:00 a.m., the doorbell rings. At first, he thinks it's a bad dream. He's been having trouble sleeping since Liliane first told him about her daughter's lawsuit a few weeks ago. But then, the doorbell rings again, and a fist pounds at the door. And then he hears a loud voice. It's the police. Still half asleep, François-Marie opens the door to his apartment. A dozen police officers file in. They're looking for evidence of the gifts Liliane has given him over the years.
10:34 Sarah Hagi? François-Marie can only watch as they rifle through his apartment for 12 hours. They seize anything that could help their investigation: receipts, personal journals, and all his written correspondence with Liliane. By François-Marie's estimate, they've written thousands of letters over the years.
10:55 Scaachi Koul? This is like the old-world equivalent of my nightmare, which is getting stuck in a lawsuit and all of my texts ending up in a public record search. Except I guess these letters could land them in jail. But I also think my texts could land me in prison.
11:09 Sarah Hagi? Um, mine couldn't, just to be on the record. Yours could.
11:15 Sarah Hagi? François-Marie likely hasn't seen much of François since the tense family lunch they both attended 15 years ago. He knows that she still hates him. Liliane shared details of their arguments over the years. He's had an inkling that the staff dislikes him, too. They're always giving him the side-eye for things like laying in Liliane's bed with his shoes on and urinating in the flower beds outside the mansion. Maybe it's not so crazy that they find him rude. But there's one saving grace: Liliane is sticking by him. She's been keeping him in the loop from the moment she learned about the lawsuit herself. Now it feels like it's François-Marie and Liliane against the world.
11:59 Sarah Hagi? It's December of 2008, and Liliane is traveling somewhere in the US. We're not sure where, but I'm sure she's staying in the fanciest hotel room in town. When she wakes up, it's to her worst nightmare. The police report on her financial relationship with François-Marie has leaked, and it's on the front page of French news magazine, Le Point. Investigators have discovered that between 2001 and 2007, Liliane gave François-Marie gifts valued at nearly 1 billion euros. Things like artwork, cash, and real estate. She's also made him the beneficiary of several life insurance policies. The media's having a field day and having fun making L'Oréal-related puns
12:43 Sarah Hagi? with headlines like "Because He's Worth It." And they're including every little detail. The many gifts, the mother-daughter tension, and Liliane's insistence that she's sound of mind. François is painted as a jealous, power-hungry daughter, François-Marie as a conniving crook. And Liliane, a baddie old woman with so much money, she doesn't know what to do with it. No one quite knows how it leaked, but the report is everywhere. Even international outlets are reporting on it.
13:17 Scaachi Koul? What's so interesting about the coverage of this case is that nobody is the good guy. They don't think that her daughter is trying to protect her from this scam artist. They think that she is stupid for not knowing how to keep track of her money. People don't seem to feel like anybody is worth any empathy in this story.
13:38 Sarah Hagi? I know. It's really one of those things where you really can't believe it's gotten to this point. And how could there possibly be a winner in any of this? Well, Liliane immediately jumps into action. She does an interview with a French newspaper, Le Journal de Démarche, and takes this opportunity to make some direct digs at her daughter. In one interview, she tells reporters that François is a deeply jealous woman and that her legal actions are, quote, "sheer meanness." Can you read the last quote from this article?
14:13 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, she said, quote, "I don't see my daughter anymore, and I don't wish to. For me, my daughter has become something inert." Oh, God.
14:22 Sarah Hagi? I know.
14:23 Scaachi Koul? Oh, moms.
14:24 Sarah Hagi? It's so sad.
14:26 Scaachi Koul? So mean.
14:27 Sarah Hagi? I find it just so insane to hear a mother talk about her daughter like this.
14:32 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, all over some guy, some gay guy.
14:36 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's truly depressing. And the way Liliane sees it, her daughter is twisting reality to avoid sharing the L'Oréal fortune. Liliane hates being the center of attention in the press, and she's eager for this whole thing to die down. But before long, there'll be a second, bigger leak, and nothing can prepare her for the backlash that will follow.
15:00 Sarah Hagi? It's May 2009, five months after the details of the François-Marie investigation were leaked to the press. In the Betancourt mansion, Pascal Bonfoy, the family butler, is preparing a tray of snacks and drinks for Liliane's upcoming meeting. Pascal is handsome, with graying hair and dark brown eyes. Pascal has been working as the family butler since 1989, a solid 20 years now. But today, he's doing things a little differently. As Liliane prepares to meet with her financial adviser, Pascal stocks a tray with lemon slices and a cold bottle of Perrier. He wheels the cart into the living room, and as he's setting up the spread,
15:41 Sarah Hagi? he sets a small, felt-covered item on a nearby bureau, a recording device. Pascal cares deeply about protecting the family that has employed him for so long. He doesn't trust François-Marie, and he's noticed that the investigation is stalling. So he figures he can help by secretly recording all of Liliane's meetings until she says something damning about her so-called friend. I want to point out that this is illegal. France has strict laws about the invasion of privacy, but Pascal figures it's worth the risk.
16:17 Scaachi Koul? It seems absurd to me that this guy is so loyal.
16:23 Scaachi Koul? To this family, to this rich family, that he's like, I'm gonna put in place all these kind of extravagant steps to do something illegal? Because he wants to, I guess, protect the wealth of the family?
16:38 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's an insane mindset to think this is normal. You're a butler for a woman for 20 years. She is the richest woman in the world, and you care so much about her wealth that you're willing to break the law and try and prove that someone's using her? Am I mine? I'm just kind of like, let these rich people fight. Anyway, as Pascal rolls his cart into the room, he works hard to keep his hands from shaking. He knows that if he gets caught, he'll lose this job. Since the investigation started, Liliane's fired staff members who testify against François-Marie, and she's wary of her remaining staffers. But he needs to do this for Liliane. Pascal pours a financial advisor a Perrier
17:21 Sarah Hagi? and drops a sugar cube into Liliane's tea. And then he leaves as the recorder starts to roll. Pascal starts doing this for as many of Liliane's meetings as he can. She doesn't often have formal sit downs with François-Marie himself. They usually hang out in her bedroom where she's most comfortable. So Pascal just has to hope that eventually François-Marie will come up in one of these conversations. Finally, in May of 2010, a year into making these recordings, Pascal manages to record a conversation between the billionaire and the photographer. And he decides he has what he needs. He hands over 20 hours of recording to Françoise, who allegedly had no idea
18:07 Sarah Hagi? that the butler had been doing his own espionage. Pascal simply says that she should do whatever she wants with them and hopes they're helpful. It seems to me like this woman does not have anyone around her that she can really trust. Because even if, you know, the butler is doing something that's like in service to her, or he's being loyal to her, it's still going against what she has said she wants. There's no way this will end well for him, but Pascal is proud of himself. He's taken matters into his own hands, and it's his last act as a Betancourt family butler. After 20 years of service, he's leaving his post.
18:48 Sarah Hagi? He knows that Françoise is sending the tapes to a lawyer, and he believes François-Marie will finally be caught. Pascal is convinced he did the right thing. But what he captured on the tapes goes far beyond Lilian's relationship with François-Marie. And it won't be long until these private, illegal recordings make their way into the world. And when this happens, the Betancourt family will long for the days when François-Marie was their biggest problem.
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20:09 Speaker 05 In January 1995, 18-year-old Krista Pike and two friends lured a classmate, 19-year-old Colleen Slammer, to an abandoned steam plant and killed her. At just 20 years old, Pike was sentenced to death. 30 years later, on September 30, 2026, the state of Tennessee tried to execute her and failed. I'm Candace DeLong, former FBI profiler and host of the podcast Killer Psyche, where we go inside the minds behind the most shocking crimes. In our latest episode, we take you inside the case of Krista Pike. The brutal crime, the childhood of abuse, three decades of appeals, and the night
20:52 Speaker 05 an execution went terribly wrong. Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Killer Psyche one week early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
21:18 Sarah Hagi? It's June 2010 in the newsroom for MediaPart, an independent French investigative news site. Journalist and co-founder Edouard Planel is sitting at his desk. Edouard is in his late 50s. He has a thick head of dark hair, a bushy mustache, and a sly grin. When his phone rings, he recognizes the voice of a familiar source. The source has a huge scoop: secret recordings that might be of interest to Edouard's reporters. The prosecutor and investigators just received them. Would Edouard like a copy?
21:54 Scaachi Koul? I can't think of a phone call I'd want more as a journalist. I would get such a boner from this phone call.
22:01 Sarah Hagi? You know in cartoons when they trap someone by like putting something? Like it's like the stick with the box and then it's like recordings?
22:08 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, yeah.
22:08 Sarah Hagi? That's how we'd get you.
22:09 Scaachi Koul? This is a bunch of le-
22:11 Sarah Hagi? Over an endless hole, correct? Well, Edwi feels the same way. And before long, Edwi and his colleagues are combing through more than 20 CD roms with hours of Liliane Bettencourt's private meetings. Edwi is already aware of all the drama surrounding the heiress and the photographer, and he's not particularly interested. It seems more like a petty mother-daughter feud, fit for tabloids and gossip rags. As an investigative news outlet, Mediapart is more interested in exposing shady dealings with France's top politicians. Still, L'Oréal is the world's biggest cosmetics group and France's most profitable company, and the Bettencortes have significant political ties.
22:55 Sarah Hagi? Edwi and his colleagues listen to the recordings, just in case there's something interesting. And soon, the whole newsroom is buzzing. Because this is way more than a tabloid story. They've just been handed the most explosive political scoop in recent history. Edwi listens as Liliane's lead financial adviser, Patrice de Maistre, talks to her about offshore bank accounts. Liliane and Patrice seem to be conspiring to hide 100 million euros in Swiss bank accounts to avoid being taxed. And, according to the tapes, France's Finance Minister, Eric Vert, seems to have been bribed to turn a blind eye to it all.
23:37 Sarah Hagi? As a budget minister, Vert's whole job is basically to be the country's accountant. He should be making sure that nothing fishy is going on. But it seems like he got a little too cozy with Liliane and her fortune. The tapes imply that, in return for ignoring their tax evasion, Patrice hired Vert's wife to work on Liliane's staff as another personal financial adviser. In one recording, Patrice even says outright that he hired her as a favor to Vert. This is a huge conflict of interest. The tax watchdog for France and a financial manager for France's biggest taxpayer shouldn't even be friends, let alone married. But there's more.
24:18 Sarah Hagi? The tapes also include plans to make huge donations to France's top governing politicians, including President Nicolas Sarkozy. When you put it all together, it sure seems like a political party is taking bribes in donations in return for not looking too closely at a billionaire's taxes.
24:38 Sarah Hagi? I love this, Sarah. This feels like the exact right conclusion that should happen because you can't get your little family squabble sorted. This is all because she was friends with a rude gay guy. It is insane. I love it. And most alarmingly, there are plenty of moments in the tapes where Patrice speaks to Liliane as though she's a child. She often seems lost, like she doesn't really understand what's going on. These moments signal that Liliane isn't always as sharp and present as she is in her press appearances. The butler was trying to find instances of abuse, and it seems like he found them from her money manager,
25:22 Sarah Hagi? not her longtime best friend. Oh, dark. I guess it makes sense. It did seem like somebody had to be financially abusing her in some way, just because she was too moneyed and too old for that not to be happening. But I guess it makes sense that it is quite obviously the person handling her money. Yes, and Edwina knows that what he has on these tapes is huge. Media Part is a small outlet. It's entirely subscriber-funded, and Edwina only launched it two years ago. This story could change his and his staff members' lives. But he knows he's not the only journalist who got these tapes, so he has to act fast. After spending a few days poring through the recordings,
26:06 Sarah Hagi? they're finally ready. The Media Part journalists hold their breath as a hit publish, and the story goes live on their website, detailing the juiciest parts of the butler's tapes. They move so quickly that the story is public before investigators have even listened to the tapes themselves. The story spreads like wildfire across France. Within hours, it's getting picked up by just about every news outlet in the country. And after years of having the French media dissect his relationship with Liliane, François-Marie is about to watch them shift their focus onto some bigger targets.
26:44 Sarah Hagi? Just hours after Edwier and his colleagues hit publish, 62-year-old François-Marie is walking home, camera in hand. For decades, he's taken long walks to photograph strangers and buildings. It helps him unwind, which he desperately needs right now. In just two weeks, the long-awaited trial that François has initiated against him a few years ago will finally take place. Since the initial panic a few years ago, François-Marie's life has mostly returned to normal. He and Liliane still hang out all the time, though now they tend to dine at Liliane's mansion instead of their usual lavish restaurants and cafes. And François-Marie's work is still very much in demand.
27:27 Sarah Hagi? Just last year, he photographed the cover of Vanity Fair. It was a giant story with a big accompanying photo shoot all about his good friend, Johnny Depp.
27:39 Scaachi Koul? Ugh, Beetlejuice.
27:41 Sarah Hagi? Remember, this is 2010.
27:43 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I was like right bumping up against it, I guess.
27:46 Sarah Hagi? Yes.
27:47 Scaachi Koul? He was still unshowered.
27:49 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, he was still wearing all those scarves, so disgusting.
27:52 Scaachi Koul? So many necklaces.
27:55 Sarah Hagi? When François-Marie walks into his apartment, the phone is ringing. It's Liliane. She's so panicked, he's barely able to register what she's saying to him. Finally, he makes out her plea for him to turn on the news. François-Marie clicks on the TV and immediately hears Liliane's name. He's certain they'll start talking about his upcoming court appearance, but to his surprise, he's not even mentioned. That morning, Media Part published their first article about the butlers' tapes, along with part of the audio, and France is reeling. François-Marie listens in shock as journalists outline what was discovered in the recordings. Liliane has been hiding more than $100 million
28:38 Sarah Hagi? in two undeclared Swiss bank accounts, and she hasn't been paying taxes on an island she owns in the Seychelles. Given the size of their fortune, the Betancourt's should have gotten a routine audit every three years, a French norm to make sure the accounting is sound. But they haven't been audited in 15 years.
29:00 Sarah Hagi? But what's probably much more upsetting to François-Marie is that everyone is talking about Liliane's mental capacity. Because despite her insistence that she's 100% lucid, she actually does sound lost and confused on the tapes. She often doesn't remember large purchases or donations she's told she's made. And in the recordings where Patrice encourages her to evade taxes, it's not clear if she understands what she's agreeing to. In one particularly damning recording, he tries to talk her into buying him a yacht for over 1 million euros. Sarah, this strikes me as another example of a very, very, very, very, very rich person
29:44 Sarah Hagi? surrounded by money managers who do not want to take care of them and will lead them down a path where they are defrauding the government or the IRS or somebody else. And, you know, these people are also trying to rip them off in one way or the other. Yeah, it's really depressing. And it's worth noting that Liliane repeatedly refused to undergo neurological exams, so it's hard to know for sure what her state of mind or mental capacity was. But from these tapes, it's clear that she's not as present as she claims. Doctors will officially conclude that she's suffering from Alzheimer's disease, but that her symptoms didn't start until 2006. By that point,
30:26 Sarah Hagi? she'd already given many of her biggest gifts to François-Marie. But she did initiate a few important things, starting in 2006, like writing François-Marie into her life insurance policies and into her will. It's tricky because I feel like she probably would have done that no matter what her mental state was because she loved him so much. But because she clearly, at the end of her life, was starting to lose some mental acuity, it's so dark and feels manipulative, and it's not even clear if it really is. Yeah, it's definitely a gray area. And it is ironic that Liliane was so worried about being seen as out of her mind that she refused to seek medical help.
31:08 Sarah Hagi? And that has cast so many of her late-in-life decisions into doubt. Now, it might be too late to ever know what she really wanted. And as François-Marie listens to this breaking news, the thing that strikes him the most is the fact that they're not talking about him at all. While these recordings were made solely to prove his guilt, they end up uncovering a political scandal beyond anything he was ever accused of. Over the coming days, Media Part publishes more of the recordings, along with a 500-page transcript of the whole collection. So much evidence comes to light that François-Marie's trial gets postponed indefinitely to give officials time to sift through it all.
31:51 Sarah Hagi? And soon, another ex-employee will bring even more accusations to light: the woman who knows exactly how money moves through the Bettencourt mansion. It's July 2010, just a few weeks after the butler's recordings were first leaked, and Claire Thibault, Liliane's former accountant, has been watching this all go down from the sidelines. Claire was one of the staffers Liliane fired a couple of years earlier for testifying against François-Marie. Claire feels vindicated. She was the first person to tell Françoise that Liliane was being financially abused, and it must be satisfying to see that she wasn't wrong. This whole story, dubbed "The Bettencourt Affair",
32:34 Sarah Hagi? has been in the news nonstop since the first recordings leaked. And today, Claire is going to drop another bomb. In an interview with Media Part, Claire says that a few years ago, Liliane's financial adviser asked her to withdraw 150,000 euros in cash to fund Nicolas Sarkozy's presidential campaign. This might sound like business as usual to Americans, but individual campaign contributions in France are not meant to exceed 4,600 euros annually, so it is a problem. Also, Claire claims that Sarkozy and the Labour Minister, Eric Verrth, were regular visitors to the Bettencourt mansion during Sarkozy's election year,
33:18 Sarah Hagi? and they'd often leave with envelopes of cash, all while Liliane was too frail and confused to know what was going on. The article sends shockwaves through France. But Claire's credibility immediately comes into question. When police follow up on her explosive claims, she immediately backtracks, saying she can't remember exactly what happened. It's also revealed that Claire and Liliane's daughter, Françoise, made a pact a few years ago. Since Claire was risking her job by speaking out against François-Marie, Françoise offered to step in and help financially if she lost work. So when Liliane did fire Claire, Françoise cut her a check for $515,000.
34:02 Sarah Hagi? Claire insists the money was just to help her speak out against abuse without fear. But to the public, it kind of looks like Françoise bribed Claire into talking to the police to strengthen her court case. Uh, it sure does. Not looking good. This is one of those situations where both things can low-key be true. Politically, it is already a sensitive time in France. The world is still recovering from a financial crisis, and learning about a billionaire illegally passing that much money to the president lights a match under the French public. Even though Claire retracts her statements, the damage is done. An official investigation is launched against Nicolas Sarkozy,
34:46 Sarah Hagi? and his approval ratings tank. The public and investigators have their pitchforks ready, and they'll take aim at everyone involved in this scandal, including its first target, François-Marie.
35:02 Sarah Hagi? It's a July evening in 2010, and Françoise is probably sitting at home with her family. Lately, all she's been able to think about are the headlines swirling about her mother. None of this would have happened if it weren't for those stupid tapes. It must feel like she's completely lost control over the situation. All she wanted was to keep François-Marie away from her family. Instead, she launched a massive political scandal with her mother at the center. But the tapes did establish that her mom isn't mentally fit to control her massive fortune. And Françoise sees an opportunity. She wants to place Liliane under legal guardianship, meaning she would no longer have control over any of her own finances.
35:46 Sarah Hagi? Françoise actually tried to do this once before, but her request was rejected. Now, with the proof on these tapes, she has new evidence for the courts. Just then, Françoise's phone buzzes. She learns that her mother put out a press release addressing the new guardianship attempt. Sachi, we've translated some of it. Could you please read it?
36:08 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it says, "It is despicable relentlessness on the part of someone who claims to protect me. My daughter could wait patiently for my death instead of doing everything to hasten it." This is depressing. This is really sad. I don't even know what I would do in this situation because it's clear that her mom is being taken advantage of in some contexts, but it's clear she doesn't want her daughter's help.
36:30 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, both of these women have so much pride. And now that their fight has ignited a huge political scandal, it seems impossible for them to just talk it through and resolve it like normal people.
36:41 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
36:42 Sarah Hagi? Well, 10 days later, Françoise is devastated to learn that the courts denied her request. Liliane is still refusing to sit for any neurological or medical exams. Without them, the courts don't feel like they have the proof they need to grant Françoise's request. But Françoise does get some good news not long after. Her mother removes François-Marie from her will. He'd been set to receive over 1 billion euros, but now he's back to nothing.
37:13 Scaachi Koul? Oh, well, that feels sudden.
37:15 Sarah Hagi? Yeah. Françoise's jaw drops when she reads about François-Marie's removal. She's shocked by this move and the fact that Liliane has talked about it to the press. In her old age, it seems like Liliane's getting messy. In a magazine interview, she says that she did feel manipulated by her friend, that he's greedy, and that he's never satisfied with what he has because of a, quote, "ancestral deformity", seemingly referencing his Jewish roots.
37:49 Sarah Hagi? Remember, she was a part of a low-key Nazi family, had a bit of a husband who was into Nazis. Right. So that prejudice runs extremely deep. Pretty deep. Okay, well, that'll do it, I guess. Yeah, oh, man. Liliane's change of heart about her friend of more than 20 years seems sudden and strange, especially since they were still talking right before Liliane cut him out of her will. Maybe, looking back on things, she sees the friendship differently now. Maybe her legal team somehow convinced her that François-Marie was a crook. Or maybe this is a symptom of worsening dementia. Throughout the whole affair, the French public has largely sided
38:34 Sarah Hagi? against François-Marie and with Liliane's daughter. But Liliane isn't picking sides. It seems like she's fed up with them both. She says, quote, "I no longer want to make an effort for them. They don't make an effort for me."
38:50 Sarah Hagi? But Françoise refuses to let the story end here. A month after Liliane spoke to the press, Françoise files for her mother to be placed under legal guardianship again. And this time, Liliane has had enough. She strikes back with her own legal action and countersues Françoise, saying that putting someone through all of these legal proceedings is a form of psychological abuse.
39:16 Sarah Hagi? But this legal action seems to fizzle out quickly because, in December of 2010, the saga gets yet another plot twist. Liliane and Françoise put out a joint press release announcing that they've made a truce. After three long years of wrangling in court, mother and daughter drop all the suits and counter suits. Françoise also agrees to finally stop trying to get Liliane placed under legal guardianship. And Liliane agrees to stop seeing François-Marie for good. I don't know about you, but I am feeling the whiplash. This is confusing. Why? All of a sudden, did they reunite? Well, the peace doesn't last long.
40:01 Sarah Hagi? Six months later, Françoise goes back to court and asks for her mother to be placed under guardianship again. Old habits die hard. Now I get it. That makes more sense, actually. This is their love language. Yeah, this is just how they talk. It's just being like, let's sue each other. Yeah, I get it. Well, in response to the suit, Liliane calls her daughter fundamentally unhappy and, quote, "a bit psychologically disturbed." She tells the press that she's terrified of losing her remaining autonomy. Still, Françoise is convinced that this is what's best. In October of 2011, the judge finally passes down a ruling, and Françoise is ecstatic.
40:44 Sarah Hagi? Liliane, now 88 years old, is officially being placed under guardianship. Françoise and her sons will now control all of Liliane's wealth and property. After turning her family's squabble into a public scandal, Françoise has finally won. Her inheritance is secure. Now, the courts will have to figure out how to prosecute everyone who seems to have financially abused Liliane Bettencourt at her lowest, from Françoise-Marie to members of parliament. And everyone is about to have their day in court.
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43:01 Sarah Hagi? It's May of 2015, five years after the Bettencourt affair tapes were first released to the press, and François-Marie is in a grand courthouse in Bordeaux. He's wearing a dark suit as he waits for the judge to read his verdict. He's 67 years old now, and he's tired. François-Marie hasn't seen or heard from Liliane since she publicly denounced him as greedy and money-hungry. He's been left to mourn his decades-long friendship, wondering what caused Liliane to turn her back on him. François-Marie isn't the only one on trial today. He's one of a handful of people accused of financially exploiting a sick and confused old woman.
43:42 Sarah Hagi? Though the court struggled to access Liliane's medical records for years, they officially conclude that she's been suffering from dementia and Alzheimer's. The charges against former President Nicolas Sarkozy will already drop due to lack of evidence, but the scandal probably didn't help him in his presidential reelection campaign. He ends up narrowly losing. In the courthouse today, former Budget Minister Eric Vert is found not guilty of abuse. The other defendants on trial include lawyers and accountants who worked closely with Liliane and her fortune. Eight of them are found guilty, including François-Marie.
44:22 Sarah Hagi? I guess it's not entirely surprising that all these people were found guilty. I am a little surprised that the budget minister squeaked on by without anything. That, to me, is so insane. The judge also says that François-Marie exerted psychological and moral control over his beloved friend. He's sentenced to three years in prison and is forced to pay a fine of 350,000 euros, plus 158 million euros in damages to Liliane. That's a lot of money for a billionaire. She was happy to buy these people gifts. I know. I'm sure there are moments where it crossed the line, but that just seems so insane. And Patrice, the financial adviser behind the whole mess,
45:06 Sarah Hagi? is sentenced to three years in prison and ordered to pay a fine of more than a quarter of a million euros. By this point, the public has largely lost interest in the Bettencourt affair. But people celebrate that François-Marie got a maximum sentence. They see it as justice. Liliane never personally comments on her former friends and confidants going to jail for their crimes. It's unclear if she was even aware of the trial. In a statement, her lawyers thanked the employees who stood up against the abuse she was facing. François-Marie is devastated. He immediately appeals, insisting on his innocence. In interviews, he claims to be a victim who's been unfairly smeared.
45:48 Sarah Hagi? And he still speaks highly of Liliane, saying that she's a remarkable woman who's been the victim of insurmountable greed, just not his own. But in France's court of public opinion, his case is likely closed for good.
46:04 Sarah Hagi? It's January of 2016, more than six months after the Bettencourt sentences were handed down. But the legal drama isn't over. In a courtroom in Bordeaux, six people are on trial, but not for abusing Liliane Bettencourt. They're in trouble for whistleblowing. Today, five journalists, including Edouard, are standing trial for their part in releasing the Bettencourt tapes to the public. They're facing charges for violating personal privacy, though they argue they only released information French civilians had a right to know. The other person standing before the court is Pascal, Liliane's former butler, for making the recordings in the first place. France has strict laws surrounding the invasion of personal privacy,
46:49 Sarah Hagi? which Pascal breached by making the tapes and Medea Part breached by publishing them. Pascal recorded Liliane's private conversations even after learning that it was illegal to do so. In the end, they did end up saving Liliane from some serious financial abuse, but now he's facing a year in prison for knowingly breaking the law. Pascal and the journalists argue that what they did was important, that it should be celebrated, not punished. And it turns out, the judge agrees with them. They're all acquitted. It's a huge win for press freedom and nosey French butlers.
47:26 Scaachi Koul? I agree with that. That's good. You shouldn't get in trouble for whistleblowing.
47:29 Sarah Hagi? No, even if you don't know what you're whistleblowing, you shouldn't get in trouble for doing it.
47:33 Scaachi Koul? You should... I think tattling should be a saved occupation.
47:38 Sarah Hagi? Well, Pascal, Edouard, and the other defendants claim that making Liliane's drama public was for her own good. But now that her daughter is in charge, Liliane is out of the spotlight. And some people are wondering if Liliane's so-called protectors were really acting in her best interest, or if her guardianship is less like a sanctuary and more like a prison.
48:02 Sarah Hagi? It's late September 2017, and a group of well-dressed people are gathered at an old stone church in Paris. The group includes notable politicians and socialites, all here for the funeral of Liliane Bettencourt. Liliane lived a long life, passing away at 94. But there's a lot of speculation about whether or not the last few years of her life were happy ones. After Liliane was placed under guardianship, many of her friends and former staff members never heard from her again, even when they reached out. Old friends believe that Liliane spent the last years of her life isolated and alone, and they blame François for taking away both her freedom and her social life.
48:47 Scaachi Koul? That's tough, because if she was having Alzheimer's or dementia at the end of her life, you know, she was maybe not a great hang. And a lot of people, when they have those diseases, they can't reminisce, they can't socialize, they struggle with a lot of human interaction. It's unclear if it's her daughter doing that, or if it's the illness that's isolated her.
49:07 Sarah Hagi? I know, I could really see it both ways, where it's like, you know, you want to see your friends, and also, her daughter maybe wanting to protect her dignity. At the time of her death, Liliane was the richest woman and the 14th richest person on earth. She was worth an estimated 33 billion euros. And now, François's is. As of March 2025, François is worth over 75 billion euros. François-Marie is notably absent from the funeral, which is understandable, since he probably wouldn't feel very welcome. About a year earlier, François-Marie won his appeal. His fines were canceled, and he didn't serve any time in jail.
49:51 Sarah Hagi? Now, he seems to be living a relatively quiet life. In 2023, he had a gallery show for some of his photos in New York City. But no matter what he does, he's still best known for the scandalous friendship and the fallout that followed. In the end, it's hard to know who's to blame for everything that happened to Liliane Benkour. Maybe Liliane said it best in the 1987 interview that forged her friendship with François-Marie. When there's money involved, people go insane.
50:25 Sarah Hagi? Alrighty, well, Sachi, being rich, it sounds like it sucks sometimes. It's crazy that this all started with just a guy taking a photo and being like, "Mm, change your outfit." And her being like, "Okay, you negged me into a friendship. That's how I do it." It's also interesting because these two were friends, but became in many ways, life partners, you know, like if their transaction was him spending time with her and making her feel loved and human, and in turn she was giving him more money than was reasonable to many people, even if he was like a shitty person and unsavory
51:07 Sarah Hagi? and mean to people, I just don't know if he necessarily committed like a real crime.
51:12 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I don't know that he did either. Ultimately, Lilian gets to decide what kind of monetary value she wants to attach to her friendships in the same way that we do when we marry someone and we put them in our will, or there's a life insurance policy for them. She made that decision, and I think she made it probably when she was mostly well. And so I don't know that it's any different, but it's a version of wealth that you and I can't get our heads around. I think it's tricky too, because it's not like her daughter wasn't profiting from her financially either. Like, there are no figures in this story who aren't getting money from Lilian. So it's hard to know, like, oh, should he have taken a step back? Or should she have taken a step back?
51:56 Scaachi Koul? And I just don't think we're ever really gonna know, because I think unfortunately in this one, the scam is like being wealthy and not knowing who your friends are.
52:04 Sarah Hagi? I mean, money obviously does complicate friendships in any scenario, but richest woman in the world, even if she outright gave him $10 million, drop in the bucket.
52:17 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
52:17 Sarah Hagi? It's a drop of a drop.
52:19 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
52:19 Sarah Hagi? It's an atom in a bucket of water, you know?
52:23 Scaachi Koul? I guess the issue is...
52:24 Sarah Hagi? Is is that we think that more people should have scammed her out of the money and not just like the two to five. Yes, absolutely. 500,000 people should have been scamming her of her money. That would have been not a scam somehow. Yeah, it is crazy to think about this dispute with your mom, who's the richest woman in the world, becoming public because she has a best friend you hate, who you think is taking advantage of her. But the added layer of it turning into a political scandal that involves the president and will influence an upcoming election is just so insane to me. I feel like I would just want to go into hiding forever. Yeah, I can't imagine private arguments I'm having with my family impacting global politics.
53:09 Sarah Hagi? And like, the call coming from inside the house, like it being someone I know who's also revealing all of this. What is your lesson, Sachi, quickly? I think my lesson is I need richer friends because none of them are giving me shit. I'll say that. I don't know what my lesson here is. I just think money's bad.
53:30 Sarah Hagi? Money's bad and it's scary. And maybe we should just like get rid of it or print more, whatever makes the most sense, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
53:45 Sarah Hagi? Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.
53:54 Sarah Hagi? This is François-Marie Banier, The French Connection, Part Two. I'm Sarah Haggie. And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us and a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected] . We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were The Bettencourt Affair, The World's Richest Woman and the Scandal That Rocked Paris by Tom Sancton, The Bettencourt Affair: Parts One and Two in Vanity Fair, and Media Parts Reporting. Gabrielle Jollet wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggie. Olivia Bryle is our story editor. Fact checking by Lexi Peery. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Fries on Sync.
54:39 Sarah Hagi? Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Flues. Ginny and Cornelo and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julia McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enney and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
55:10 Scaachi Koul? I'm Gemma Whelan, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari. A famous dancer turned World War I secret agent, accused of seducing Allied officers to uncover their plans. But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari early and at free on Audible.
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