Pod Insights Scamfluencers The Wildenstein Family Part 1: The Art of the Steal | 222 About this episode For over a century, the Wildenstein family has quietly dominated the art world, amassing one of the largest private collections ever assembled while most people have never even heard their name. The anonymity isn’t an accident; it’s a strategy. Because what they are hiding is enormous: a sprawling fortune built on secrecy, tax evasion, stolen masterpieces and alleged Nazi collaboration. Four generations of Wildenstein men constructed an empire designed to be invisible. But when one family member’s messy divorce blows the vault wide open, a century’s worth of buried secrets comes spilling out. Now, the women they’ve tried to discard are about to tear it all down.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Sarah Hagi? Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:14 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, I know I am literally always talking about how much I love divorce, and I am sure that by now you are sick of it.
0:22 Sarah Hagi? You know what? I'm not sick of it. I simply am not. I think you always have something funny to say about it, so keep going.
0:28 Scaachi Koul? OK, great, I'll keep going. I think the thing I love most about divorce, especially when a woman divorces a rich and established family, is how she can single-handedly begin to take everybody down.
0:42 Sarah Hagi? I think that type of story is truly just moi. I love it so much. It makes me so happy.
0:48 Scaachi Koul? OK, perfect. Well, you're in for a treat because today's story combines all the things we love most: divorce, restless, tabloid coverage of the rich and evil, some culture-shifting plastic surgery, and one woman who wasn't going to let her terrible, rich husband take away the glamorous life that she built.
1:12 Scaachi Koul? It's the middle of the night in September 1997, and 52-year-old Jocelyn Wildenstein has just landed in New York City from Kenya. She heads straight home to a massive, 14-room Manhattan townhouse, and she is full of righteous anger because she is about to confront her husband. Jocelyn married into the highly secretive and obscenely wealthy Wildenstein family 19 years ago, and this is a storied family. The Wildenstein's have spent more than a century amassing a fortune by dealing European art. No one really knows how much the family is worth. They don't disclose how much art they have stockpiled or how much wealth they're sitting on.
1:54 Scaachi Koul? But despite their affluence, most people have never even heard of them, and that is on purpose. They do everything in their power to stay out of the news. Jocelyn's husband, Alec, is part of the newest generation running the Wildenstein dynasty. But after almost two decades together, the couple has grown distant. They're not even living on the same continent. Jocelyn's been staying at the family ranch in Kenya, while Alec has been traveling around New York and Europe. They agreed to separate and, a few months ago, both filed divorce papers. The divorce proceedings were cordial at first, but before long, things changed. Jocelyn's credit cards were canceled. The monthly allowance she received from Alec was reduced by 2/3.
2:37 Scaachi Koul? And then, a few days ago, came the final straw. Alec faxed Jocelyn to say that she was no longer welcome at their Manhattan home because he was busy entertaining.
2:50 Sarah Hagi? Buddy, who are you entertaining where your wife can't be there? That's what I want to know.
2:56 Scaachi Koul? Well, Jocelyn wasn't sure what her husband meant by entertaining, but she refuses to be banished from her own home. So she flew here, all the way from Kenya, to confront him. She marches over to the elevator with two bodyguards in tow and makes her way up to the bedroom. What happens next is disputed based on who you ask, but here's the most popular version. When Jocelyn walks into the bedroom, she sees that Alec has company. The 57-year-old art dealer is barely clothed, and he's with a younger woman. Much younger. He's in bed with a 19-year-old. From there, everything explodes. Before Jocelyn can even get upset, her husband pulls a gun on her.
3:39 Scaachi Koul? And suddenly, she's staring down the barrel of a pistol. In the chaos that follows, someone calls 911, and Jocelyn watches as her husband is dragged away in handcuffs. This story, one of the world's wealthiest art dealers pulling a gun on his wife, is about to spark a tabloid frenzy. And it's not just because of the soap opera antics. In the New York society pages, Jocelyn is best known for having had a lot of plastic surgery, giving her a unique, almost cat-like, appearance. Even if you aren't familiar with the story, there's a pretty good chance you'd recognize her. Sarah, here's a picture of Jocelyn from around this time. Can you describe her?
4:20 Sarah Hagi? Shut up. This is the Catwoman?
4:22 Scaachi Koul? Sure is.
4:23 Sarah Hagi? I know her from being on TV all the time and being in every single Ripley's Believe It or Not book or Guinness Book of World Records that you would try and grab as quickly as you can during silent reading in class. This woman is the OG of plastic surgery and is crazy because by today's standards, is she that crazy looking? No.
4:48 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, she single-handedly stretched the Overton window of stretching your face. Well, the press can't get enough of Jocelyn's appearance, and soon, every tabloid in New York City will have it splashed across their pages. After a century of secrecy and avoiding the press, the Wildenstein name is suddenly everywhere. Once the press starts digging into this famously reclusive family, they'll find a long history of cutthroat business tactics bordering on crimes. And what starts as a Page Six scandal will soon become darker and far more serious because this divorce is about to unmask one of the art world's most powerful families as thieves, frauds, and alleged Nazi collaborators.
5:34 Speaker 02 With a Spark Cash Plus card from Capital One, you earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. And you get big purchasing power so your business can spend more and earn more.
5:47 Speaker 03 If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. It's destroying athlete, creator, and YouTube Maxer. YouTube Premium enhances how I use YouTube with awesome features like offline downloads so I can download my favorite training videos before I hit the gym. So no Wi-Fi doesn't turn leg day into loading day. Plus, I get ad-free videos, background play, and so much more. YouTube Premium is like YouTube got some extra gains. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com/premium.
6:17 Speaker 04 Hey, what's up, guys? It's Haley Bailey. Okay, I need to tell you about something. I just got YouTube Premium. It's got tons of awesome features like offline downloads so I can download my favorite videos before I travel and watch them whenever I don't have Wi-Fi because we all know airplane Wi-Fi is the worst. I get ad-free, I get background play, and there's like a ton more in there. You should try it. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. So try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com/premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. That's a mouthful.
6:49 Scaachi Koul? From Audible Originals, I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggie. And this is Scamplancers.
7:04 Scaachi Koul? Since the late 1800s, the Wildenstein family has quietly dominated the art world. They've played a huge role in how European art is seen, appreciated, and appraised. But most people have never heard of them, and that is by design. Because what they're hiding is enormous. For generations, this family has quietly cornered the art market, controlling how art is authenticated, shaping what collectors value, and keeping the true size of their collection a closely guarded secret. But when one of the Wildensteins goes through a messy divorce in the late 90s, a century's worth of family secrets starts spilling out, including tax evasion, stolen art, dealings with Nazis, and even a monkey who lives in a bathroom.
7:48 Scaachi Koul? Four generations of men built an empire on secrecy. And now, the women they've tried to discard are about to tear it all down. This is The Wildenstein Family, Part One: The Art of the Steel.
8:04 Scaachi Koul? The Wildenstein legacy begins more than a century ago. It's 1875, in a fabric shop in the suburbs of Paris, France. Outside, a horse whinnies as it pulls a carriage past women in dresses fit for Bridgerton. Behind the counter stands 24-year-old Nathan Wildenstein. He has a long face with cropped dark hair and a thick mustache. Nathan was born in 1851 and grew up in a rural town near the German border, part of a long line of livestock dealers. He comes from a large Jewish family. He's one of eight children, but here in Paris, he's alone. Five years earlier, Nathan left his hometown when the Prussian army invaded the region. He refused to live under German rule and fled to Paris,
8:49 Scaachi Koul? even though he knew he'd likely never see his family again. And while he's grateful for his political freedom, he's struggling to find his footing in his new home. The city is in the early days of la belle époque, the Beautiful Era, marked by the construction of the Eiffel Tower and a renewed interest in art. One day, in the middle of his tailoring shift, one of his regular clients, an aristocratic woman, comes in with an unusual request. She has some valuable paintings on her hands, and she wants to know if Nathan will help her sell them. He says yes immediately. We're not really sure why this customer turned to Nathan for help, of all people. But Nathan, who's a little bored and could use the money, is all in. There's just one problem.
9:34 Scaachi Koul? He doesn't actually know anything about art.
9:38 Sarah Hagi? Well, you know, I think he will soon discover that you actually don't need to know a lot about art to scam people. In fact, you can just make shit up, and people will believe you, as we have learned on this show.
9:51 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, that we know for sure. Well, Nathan decides he's not going to phone it in. For the next 10 days, Nathan visits the Louvre and gives himself a crash course in art history. And it pays off. He sells the woman's paintings and pockets 1,000 francs for himself, which is an estimated $5,000 in USD today. But the money isn't even the most valuable thing he walks away with. It's a brand-new love of art and a desire to learn more. As he researches art trends, Nathan notices that French art from the 17th and 18th centuries are completely out of fashion. Collectors and critics are chasing modern work, works of realism and romanticism by Manet and Renoir,
10:34 Scaachi Koul? rather than the Rococo artists that Nathan loves. Which means that, for now, his favorite art is dirt-cheap. So Nathan decides to take a gamble. He uses the money that he made from that first sale to buy two more paintings from junk shops, which he then sells to aristocrats for a profit. The art world is a little like the stock market, with collectors and dealers betting on trends and investing in paintings that they think will go up in value. And from the start, Nathan is unusually good at this. He has a knack for buying up cheap art right before everyone wants it. But he's not just following the market. His taste is shaping it. Every time Nathan convinces a rich collector that 18th-century art is valuable, more collectors want it.
11:19 Scaachi Koul? And they don't have to look far, because Nathan's got plenty more paintings to sell them.
11:25 Sarah Hagi? This is really interesting because it is kind of how art functions in many ways. Regardless of how much he studied or knew, it is people with wealth creating value through scarcity or word of mouth. That is how art is sold and valued.
11:42 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, man, it's all arbitrary. And with this new career, Nathan becomes one of Paris's culture makers almost overnight. Once he can afford it, he starts dressing the part to entice even more buyers. Picture extravagant top hats and fancy waistcoats. He genuinely loves the art that he's selling, and he's able to convince critics and collectors that they should love it, too. Before long, Nathan's selling paintings to rich and powerful families from all over the world, from the Rockefellers to the Rothschilds. He starts his own art business, and as he becomes wealthy in his own right, he begins thinking about the thing all rich people eventually think about: building an empire and securing a family legacy.
12:27 Scaachi Koul? It's 1918 in Paris, and 26-year-old George Wildenstein is sitting at his desk when a bright red phone rings. He picks it up and chats for a few minutes with an artist he sure is about to take off: an up-and-comer named Pablo Picasso. It's been 43 years since Nathan stumbled into the world of art dealing, and since then, he's made a name for himself across the globe. He opened a gallery in the heart of Paris and another in New York to sell European art to American buyers. And of course, the most important part of building a dynasty is legacy. So Nathan has done everything in his power to set up his son, George, to take over the company one day. We actually have a picture of the two men from around this time. Can you describe it?
13:12 Sarah Hagi? Yes, I mean, listen, this is a classic, old-timey, history-book-ass photo. It's black and white, obviously, very grainy, but they look incredibly wealthy. I know probably of the same era, but it looks downton-abbie to me. They're just wearing dapper suits and hats, and they look moneyed.
13:30 Scaachi Koul? They do look moneyed. Well, even though George is only in his 20s, he's already known for his sharp eye and great instincts. So his dad decided to let George run a new gallery down the street. And while George may be a nepo baby, he's desperate to prove that he deserves respect on his own merits. He leans more into modern art than his father, not because he loves it, but because he sees its money-making potential. He's been investing in works by artists like Monet, convinced that they're going to take off. And so far, he's right. But being successful doesn't mean you're well-liked. Even at his young age, George has a reputation for being much tougher
14:10 Scaachi Koul? and more cutthroat than his dad, prizing profit above almost everything else. At some point, he even sets up a network of spies around France: auction house employees, notaries, and other people embedded in the art scene. They make sure that George is the first to know when a painting becomes available or what it's being valued at. And while the art establishment finds his methods ungentlemanly, they are incredibly effective.
14:38 Sarah Hagi? He doesn't strike me as someone who needs to be liked at all. He seems like one of those people that just steamrolls through whatever he wants to get what he wants. And basically, people just end up having to deal with him, whether they like him or not. And that's what power is.
14:54 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, exactly. Well, there is one person in the industry who does like George: his business partner, another art dealer named Paul Rosenberg. Paul is slim, with a receding hairline and thick eyebrows. He and George went to the same high school, and now they run this modern art space as a duo. Together, they go all in on Picasso. They dedicate the first two floors of the gallery to his work, and in exchange, they get first dibs on his new paintings. The red phone in George's office only has two direct lines: one to his friend Paul and one to Picasso. The arrangement works well for over a decade, until personal drama blows it up. In 1933, their partnership ends suddenly,
15:38 Scaachi Koul? allegedly because Paul catches his best friend George sleeping with his wife. George is expanding his father's art business into an increasingly powerful dynasty by doing whatever he wants, in business and in life, no matter who it hurts. To George, the break with his childhood friend and business partner is simply a bump in the road, and it's a useful lesson. Anyone outside of the family is disposable. It's the spring of 1934 in Paris's Jewish cemetery. The Wildenstein family, dressed in black, watches as a casket gets lowered into the ground. George wipes away a tear.
16:20 Scaachi Koul? He's here to bury his father, Nathan, the man who founded the family business and passed down everything he knew about art. Nathan died quietly at home at 82 years old. For George, it's a devastating loss, and now he feels the full weight of his responsibility to carry on the family legacy. It was his father's dying wish, literally. On his deathbed, Nathan told George's 17-year-old son, Daniel, to honor his parents, emphasizing the importance of family and lineage above all else.
16:51 Sarah Hagi? In previous episodes, we've had this almost exact situation happen where a dying parent or parental figure says something crazy to someone on their deathbed. How is it so common that someone says something just crazy to you on their deathbed? What a terrible lesson.
17:11 Scaachi Koul? Rich people are always doing this. They're so worried about what's going to happen when they die. Well, George is now 42 years old. He's just become the sole head of the family art business. And thanks to his dad's savvy business dealings, George doesn't just run a gallery, he single-handedly controls much of the art market itself. A couple of years back, George and his father bought a famous art journal called La Gazette de Beaux-Arts, which reviews and contextualizes works of art. George became its new editor, which means he has the power to print glowing reviews of work that he likes and wants to make valuable for his own profit. He also publishes books about artists whose work he owns and becomes an authority on authenticating art.
17:54 Scaachi Koul? If you own a Monet or a Chardin, it's up to George to confirm if it's real or not. The Wildensteins are cementing a real monopoly. They're using every lever of power they have to increase their family's wealth.
18:08 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, you know, I feel like this is how a lot of incredibly rich families function with whatever thing they pick, like be it a resource or television or media. You know, they pick something that they can really influence and monopolize to their benefit, where they are the ones who are the most important when deciding what's what.
18:29 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it's a pretty good routine. Well, around this time, George starts perfecting the skill that will help protect his family's power for generations: secrecy. No one knows exactly how rich or powerful the Wildensteins are because no one knows just how much art they actually have. This secrecy isn't just paranoia, it's a powerful business tactic. The art world runs on insider knowledge: who owns what, how big someone's collection is. So keeping quiet keeps their competitors in the dark. And when no one realizes how much power you have, you can wield it quietly. The Wildensteins operate without facing any suspicion or scrutiny.
19:13 Scaachi Koul? Right now, things couldn't be going better. George's teenage son, Daniel, is about to step into the business and continue the family legacy. But soon, the Second World War will threaten this Jewish family's prosperity, and they'll have to decide which side of history to stand on. It's November 1940 at the lavish Hotel de Roy in Aix-en-Provence, France. Just over a year ago, Germany invaded Poland and ignited World War II. Now, France is falling to German rule. It's become increasingly unsafe for Jewish families, and many are fleeing the country and the continent to escape the Third Reich.
19:55 Scaachi Koul? But for now, the Wildensteins are still here. And today, George is meeting a new client: Karl Haberstock, Hitler's personal art dealer. And the two men are here to make a deal.
20:10 Sarah Hagi? Okay, let's back it up for a second. Let's back it up. So you're telling me that this Jewish family is, you know, I understand this is November 1940. It's very clear what Hitler's up to.
20:25 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, yeah. Everyone knows who Hitler is. It's not like-
20:28 Sarah Hagi? Everyone knows what's going on.
20:30 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
20:30 Sarah Hagi? Everyone knows what's happening because it's happening. He's meeting with his art guy. Hitler's art guy.
20:36 Scaachi Koul? Yes, he is. Well, I'm going to tell you why. At this point in the war, the Nazis are seizing property from Jewish families to strip them of their assets, including any art that they own. It's estimated that, over the duration of the war, the Nazis seize one-fifth of all the art in Europe, some of which is still missing till this day. They keep some of the pieces for themselves and sell others to fund their war efforts. George takes a deep breath as he listens to the Nazis sitting across from him. As a Jewish art dealer, he knows that his safety and all of the art that he has in Europe is under threat. In fact, the Nazis have already confiscated some pieces from the Wildenstein's.
21:20 Scaachi Koul? But Carl has a proposition for George. He tells him that the Wildenstein's can keep their entire art collection and get back everything that's already been confiscated. The Nazis are even willing to let him keep running their Parisian art gallery so long as it's operated by a non-Jewish employee. All they want in exchange is the ability to buy any piece Hitler wants for his personal collection. George meets with Carl for four or five days, and finally, the terms are agreed upon.
21:55 Scaachi Koul? Not long after they finalize the deal, George and his family, his wife, his 23-year-old son Daniel, and Daniel's young family flee France for the United States. In the meantime, their gallery keeps running in Paris per their agreement. The Nazis quietly return all of the Wildensteins' seized artwork, and George allegedly goes even further, buying artwork directly from the Nazis, art that they looted from the homes and collections of "other Jewish families." Publicly, they try to hide any whiff of a relationship with the Third Reich during the war. About three years after striking this deal, George even writes an article denouncing art dealers who collaborate with the Nazis in any way.
22:39 Sarah Hagi? That is so devious, to betray your people that way and then to write an article pretending that you would never do such a thing, almost as a way of like, getting ahead of if anyone finds out. Insane.
22:55 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, well, it's unclear whether the Wildensteins ever actually sold paintings to Hitler. And later, the family will staunchly deny that any of this happened. For now, George's dealings remain a secret. The family is safely living in New York and thriving, and by all appearances, willing to exploit a global catastrophe for their own benefit. But their dirtiest secrets can't stay buried forever.
23:28 Speaker 05 He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula: How You've Never Heard It Before, with a new full cast audio thriller starring Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. When Mina's fiancé Jonathan Harker vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already...
24:12 Speaker 02 Hunting her. Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Listen to the new audiobook adaptation of Bram Stoker's Dracula, only on Audible. There are books that change how you see the world, and there are books that change how you see yourself. In a new podcast series, A Great Book with Barack Obama, President Obama sits down with a series of surprising and sharp guests to explore six books that have shaped his life and perspective on the world. From Song of Solomon and the Fire Next Time, to All the Pretty Horses and Gilead, the
24:55 Speaker 02 president is joined by guests like Tom Hanks and Ta-Nehisi Coates to reflect on how these timeless stories shaped his thinking on everything from fatherhood to leadership, and discover together what they tell us about the world we live in and the world we want to create. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of A Great Book with Barack Obama ad-free right now, plus access each audiobook discussed in the series. Download the Audible app today.
25:36 Scaachi Koul? It's 1955, and Daniel Wildenstein is stepping out of a car outside of 122, a famous brothel in Paris frequented by rich society men. The Wildensteins are back in France after waiting out the war in New York. And for Daniel, George's only son, it's time to blow off a little steam. That's why he's here, to splash out on drinks and sleep with beautiful women who are not his wife. Daniel is in his 30s and has spent his entire life learning about the importance of the family dynasty. Remember how Nathan raised George with the singular goal of prepping him to take over the family business? Well, George raised Daniel the exact same way.
26:18 Scaachi Koul? From a young age, Daniel's been looped into all of his father's interests, from his love of racehorses to his obsession with chasing art trends. We have a picture of the two men together. Sarah, can you describe them?
26:32 Sarah Hagi? You know, obviously, old timey photo, black and white, very fancy looking, crown molding in the background. You know you're too poor to be there. But I would never think these two were father and son. You know, George is sitting down, full suit, perfectly manicured mustache, staring straight ahead at the camera. And he looks, there's no expression on his face. And Daniel is standing there beside his father. Again, full suit, perfect hair, staring directly into the camera, no expression. It looks like two men who just made a deal, not people who are remotely related.
27:09 Scaachi Koul? Yep, just two obscenely wealthy strangers who look like they want to hunt me for sport. And on paper, Daniel is the perfect heir to the Wildenstein empire. He has a beautiful young family, a French Jewish wife and two sons, a 15-year-old named Alec and a 10-year-old named Guy. He has an art history degree from La Sorbonne, and some say that he has an even better eye for art than his dad. Now, he's writing, and even rewriting, art history. He hires scholars and historians to create new books about artists in his family's collection. Like his father, he's doing everything he can to control the market and shape the perceived value of the work that they already own.
27:53 Scaachi Koul? But Daniel has a very strained relationship with his father, to say the least. George doesn't approve of his son's hobbies, which mainly include partying and sleeping around. Nathan and George, the family's first two patriarchs, had to work to establish their family's legacy. But Daniel is firmly old money. He was born into more wealth and power than most people can even imagine. And it seems to have gone to his head. Because while he's just as skilled and cutthroat as his father, he lacks George's discipline. Daniel wants to have his cake and eat it too, run the art world, be widely respected, and do whatever he wants without consequence. He's using a lot of the same tactics that his father did, like spying.
28:38 Scaachi Koul? But it seems that he's sloppier about it. In fact, the Wildenstein company just got sued for wiretapping a rival gallery.
28:47 Sarah Hagi? It seems like Daniel is, in some sense, kind of following his family's playbook of how to monopolize the art world and to do whatever it takes to be on top. But at the same time, it's like one of these moments where you could tell it's really going off the rails because they're getting sloppy about it, as you said. Like, getting sued for wiretapping is crazy.
29:11 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it seems like in this family, these men are losing like the elegant touch that they have in business as generations go by. And while Daniel thinks it's OK to let loose himself, he exerts total control over the people around him, especially his two young sons, who are next in line to inherit the business. Daniel sees his sons less as people and more as future heirs. He's especially strict with Alec, the eldest. Growing up, Alec isn't allowed to have playdates with other children or play sports. And when he graduates high school in a few years, Daniel will forbid him from attending university. He wants Alec's life to be devoted completely to art, out of the public eye.
29:54 Scaachi Koul? Which is why, around this time, when Alec is just 15, Daniel starts bringing him along to the brothel. He doesn't want either of his sons to get married because marriage could lead to divorce, and divorce could lead to bad publicity. His reasoning is deranged, but in Daniel's mind, there is some logic behind it. The hope is that if Alec can be satiated in brothels, he won't feel the need for a wife. The whole thing is especially bizarre since this is a family built on legacy. And to keep a legacy going, you need heirs. Apparently, Daniel just hasn't thought that far ahead.
30:33 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I feel like in this time period, it was normal to see marriage as like a business transaction or contract or whatever, and then secretly go to brothels on the side. But being a grown, rich man who's single, to me, would only raise suspicion. So this plan doesn't really make sense to me.
30:53 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, there's not a lot of logic in this. But coming from a long line of power-hungry men, it does kind of make sense that Daniel has this insatiable need for control.
31:05 Scaachi Koul? By the third generation, the Wildenstein men seem to be losing their grip on reality. Daniel is convinced he can control Alec's life, right down to his relationships. But when Alec gets older, he'll take after his dad, which means he'll want to play by his own rules, too.
31:26 Scaachi Koul? It's 1977, and we're in Kenya. Alec Wildenstein is 37 now, and for the most part, he's actually lived by his father's demands. He works in the family art business, stays out of the press, and has never gotten married. His grandfather, George, died more than a decade ago, which means his father, Daniel, now has ultimate control over the Wildenstein clan. Outside of working for the family business, Alec has one main interest: Africa, just like the entire continent of Africa. That's why he spends most of his free time here at Old Jogi, a 66,000-acre Kenyan ranch where he collects exotic animals and goes on safari.
32:10 Sarah Hagi? As if these people can't get any worse, you're now telling me it's the 70s and these are rich, white people who are obsessed with Africa, the homogenous continent where everything is the same. And, let me guess, these people who already live there are so backwards that he has to have this 66,000-acre ranch where he allows himself to collect animals and do his own safaris. This is awesome.
32:39 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, Sarah, I'm here to hurt you. Well, even though Alec is an adult now, the dynamic with his father has not changed. While he has the feeling of independence all the way out here in Kenya, he's still at his father's mercy, because Daniel controls the family purse strings. Daniel technically owns everything, including the ranch, Alec's cars, and his home in New York. And even though Alec has devoted his life to the family business, Daniel is still its sole proprietor. So Alec is caught in a weird limbo. He's a fully grown adult with access to extraordinary wealth, but he still needs to ask his dad for permission before actually spending it. He has proximity to power, but no real power of his own.
33:23 Scaachi Koul? And while George and Daniel both built upon their father's legacies and became well-respected art dealers in their own right, Alec and his brother haven't quite managed to do the same. Sarah, can you read what one art dealer said about them in an interview with The Cut?
33:38 Sarah Hagi? Yes, they said, "The generations are petering out as far as talent goes. The sons don't have the same flair for the art business that Daniel does. They are spending their money, but they're not bringing anything in." Yeah, you know, again, it's just such a cliche family legacy story. Like, it's so Succession where, or even, you know, something like The Murdochs, where this patriarch builds something out of seemingly nothing and is able to rise to the top of whatever, but the kids just don't measure up because they never really needed to.
34:11 Scaachi Koul? Yep. Wealth is a horrible disease, and they were born with it eating their brains. While Alec probably doesn't feel great about this public perception, but he finds real comfort and joy on the Kenyan ranch. And that's why today Alec is up early and dressed in head-to-toe camouflage for a lion hunt. There are a handful of guests on the ranch, including a friend of a friend, a beautiful 31-year-old Swiss socialite named Jocelyn. We have a picture of her from around this time. Sarah, can you describe her?
34:43 Sarah Hagi? Wow. This is as symmetrical of a face as you're ever gonna see. I'll say that much.
34:48 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, she's pretty hot.
34:49 Sarah Hagi? It's a very glamorous, her hair is gorgeously blown out. She's looking up at something. And like, she just has such an incredibly beautiful face. Like, there's no other way to say it. She's stunning. This is the kind of face people pay to have plastic surgery for, you know?
35:08 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, yeah, that's true.
35:13 Scaachi Koul? Well, after the safari, Alec invites Jocelyn on a motorcycle ride. During their ride, he learns that she doesn't come for money. Her father worked at a department store. But she spent her adult life hobnobbing with the rich and famous, dating wealthy men in Paris and traveling all over the world. As they get to know each other, Jocelyn tells Alec how much she loves the outdoors and going on adventures. She waters skis and rock climbs, but she also loves being a socialite and using her beauty and charm to get invited into places that she couldn't access otherwise. Sarah, can you read what she later says to a journalist at The Cut when talking about why she never pursued a career?
35:52 Sarah Hagi? Yes, she says, "I have different talent. I never worry for my career. I'm very good at decoration. I may be extremely good at decoration. I always find at the right time what I can do." I mean, listen, I cannot say how good she is at decoration. I've never seen her decorations, but this is clearly someone who is so beautiful, they probably don't have to be that good at anything.
36:21 Scaachi Koul? Good for her. Well, Alec is smitten. But beside Daniel's directive not to get married, there's one more problem. Alec and Jocelyn are both technically in relationships right now. But that doesn't matter. Their spark is immediate and undeniable. They have so much in common, like how much they both love Africa. Their motorcycle ride ends with a kiss, and Alec's fate is sealed. He knows he wants to marry this woman. Over the past century, the Wildensteins have built up unimaginable wealth and maintained it in part by staying out of the public eye. But when a family is this tightly wound, it only takes one person to pull the whole thing apart.
37:07 Scaachi Koul? It's April 1978 at the Hilton Hotel in Las Vegas. It's been around a year since Jocelyn first met Alec on that magical Kenyan safari trip. And since then, they've had a whirlwind romance. Jocelyn once went to her hair salon in Paris to find Alec had filled it with thousands of white orchids. They've shared fancy dinners and I love yous, and recently Alec proposed. Jocelyn said yes immediately. The only problem is her new in-laws. Alec's father, Daniel, is extremely strict and controlling, even though his son is almost 40. Jocelyn is weirded out by their relationship. Daniel still doesn't want his sons to marry.
37:50 Scaachi Koul? When Daniel found out about the engagement, he did everything in his power to try to stop the wedding. He even told one of Alec's exes to try to win him back. The whole thing is insane as far as Jocelyn is concerned. Remember how one of Daniel's reasons for forbidding his sons from getting married was to avoid bad press from a potential divorce? Well, Daniel just got divorced, and he's remarrying a younger woman, a model named Sylvia, this year. For a man who constantly preaches the value of privacy in high society, he's pretty messy.
38:24 Sarah Hagi? Yes, I mean, I feel like in Daniel's mind, he can function however he wants because he is the smart one, he's a leader, he's the one who built everything, and the people under him are like exactly that, they're under him, like they don't have the same autonomy. Like, he knows what's best for them, he can make the best choices for them because it's all about their greater family purpose. So it's obviously going to be hypocritical, but to Daniel, this is something that makes total sense.
38:49 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, but Jocelyn's not going to live like the rest of the family. She's never really cared about what other people think, and she's not about to start now. So while it's not ideal that her father-in-law is controlling and seems hell-bent against this union, it will not stop her from marrying the man that she loves. That's why she and Alec are getting married here, at a Las Vegas hotel with just one witness. If the wedding remains a secret, then Daniel can't do anything to stop it. When Daniel taught his sons about the importance of secrecy, it seems like he never considered that they might keep secrets from him.
39:25 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I mean, I think he thinks his kids are dumb. Like, he would know everything. Like, he's like all-seeing. He knows everything. He's the master of this family. So it kind of blinds him in a way because I don't think he's able to see people as functioning outside of being his Sims, you know?
39:42 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, he's not really paying attention to anyone. But Jocelyn doesn't need much. She doesn't need a big wedding. She just needs Alec. So the pair exchange idoos and pop champagne. Jocelyn feels nothing but joy as she ties the knot. The couple return to Kenya to settle in at the old Joghi Ranch and maybe to hide from Daniel's wrath. But it isn't just Alec's rebellion that's threatening the family legacy. Back in Europe, a journalist is going to start digging into the Wildenstein family, and what he uncovers will be the beginning of the end.
40:21 Scaachi Koul? It's 1988 in Paris. Hector Feliciano is at the Louvre with a notepad jotting down thoughts for his latest article. Hector is a Puerto Rican writer who's been working as a cultural correspondent in Paris, writing about French affairs for the LA Times and the Washington Post. Today, Hector is investigating a stolen painting bought by the museum. As part of his research, he talks to an elderly man who mentions, offhandedly, that about 20% of the art looted by the Nazis remains unaccounted for. Hector's eyes widen. Providence, the official record of ownership for a work of art, is taken very seriously in the art world. The idea of so much of it being lost doesn't make sense to him.
41:06 Scaachi Koul? But France has been slow to acknowledge its darker history with the Nazi regime. It was only the year before that the country's national education curriculum was revised to mention collaboration.
41:17 Scaachi Koul? So Hector pays a visit to the French National Archives and finds that every document pertaining to Nazi-looted art is classified. As a dogged journalist, this only makes him more curious. He starts digging through records and archives to trace where the art went. Some works found their way into private collections, but he discovers that thousands of pieces are hanging in French museums, institutions that were apparently happy to hang the art on their walls rather than investigate who it really belonged to. After the Berlin Wall comes down, even more documents come to light. Hector starts working directly with the families who had art stolen, learning their histories and helping them track down their heirlooms.
41:59 Scaachi Koul? Hector later says that many of these families were hesitant to speak out earlier, partially because of their survivor's guilt.
42:07 Sarah Hagi? This is so sad for so many reasons, and I know that from learning about Nazis, that art was a huge part of, I guess, their cultural force in stealing art from families that they forcibly displaced. And it's just so sad that, like, one, these museums don't really care, which makes sense considering how much looted shit is in museums to begin with. But it's also just so sad for these families that, like, they survived such an atrocity and feel like too guilty to get what's owed to them because they feel guilty for surviving and making it out.
42:46 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it's really sad and complex generational trauma. Plus, all of France is so unwilling to admit what actually happened during the war. It just feels like the shock is just wearing off. And the more hours Hector puts into this investigation, the more personally and emotionally invested he becomes. He eventually quits his newspaper job to focus on writing a book about all this missing art. And in 1995, it's finally published in France with the title, "The Lost Museum: The Nazi Conspiracy to Steal the World's Greatest Works of Art." It details the 20,000 paintings that are still missing and absolutely rocks the French art world. The looted art was something of an open secret, but the time is ripe to draw attention to it.
43:31 Scaachi Koul? That same year, French President Jacques Charac formally denounces the role France played collaborating with the Nazis. In the book, Hector reveals that the Wildensteins had a relationship with the Nazis dating back to the late 1930s, before World War II even broke out. And he details that meeting between George and Carl at the Hotel de Roy. Hector calls George a Nazi collaborator, but the book is only published in French, so it doesn't meaningfully dent the family's reputation outside of France.
44:02 Sarah Hagi? This is just so sad. There's so many layers to how terrible this is. These people were Nazi collaborators from the beginning, and they were also Jewish. It is a very heartbreaking concept, and it's so sad that their quest for wealth overtook what was right, which I know is like, obviously rich people aren't going to do that, but it is, yeah, it's really depressing.
44:27 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it is depressing. But Hector has stirred public attention to the issue of Nazi-looted art, and his work isn't done. When the book comes out, families of Jewish art dealers immediately come forward to claim what was stolen from them. A little more than a year later, the Musée d'Orsay displays nearly 1,000 paintings retrieved from the Nazis at the end of World War II, giving more people the chance to identify art that's rightfully theirs. And Hector keeps digging, discovering the providence of more and more looted pieces, which means he'll have even more material to include in the English-language version of his book. Hector's kicked up enough of a stir that he secured a US publisher.
45:09 Scaachi Koul? The enormity of what Hector uncovered is becoming impossible to ignore. As time goes on, the Wildensteins will start to make headlines. And when they do, the family's hidden history will capture the attention of the art world, the tabloids, and law enforcement.
45:32 Speaker 06 Hi, I'm Kenya Paris.
45:34 Speaker 02 And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.
45:40 Speaker 06 We'll sit down with extraordinary guests from the worlds of art, film, literature, comedy, and wilderness to hear from their unexpected stories of success.
45:47 Speaker 02 And who do we have this season? Well, we'll talk with Grammy-winning artist Anderson Paak, athlete Rich Roll, portrait artist Amy Sherald, Oscar-winning director Ron Howard, legendary writer David Sedaris, and many more. These conversations are more intimate than last season, wouldn't you say?
46:03 Speaker 06 I would. Listen to season one of The Unusual Suspects wherever you get your podcasts and sign up for a free trial Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing to Apple Podcasts.
46:20 Speaker 05 Hey, I'm Cassie DePecce, the host of Against the Odds from Audible Originals. In each episode, we share thrilling true stories of survival, putting you in the shoes of the people who live to tell the tale. In our latest series, we track the story of Hugh Glass, the real-life revenant that inspired the 2015 film starring Leonardo DiCaprio. In 1823, Glass was brutally mauled by a grizzly bear in present-day South Dakota and left for dead. His survival depended on trekking through 350 miles of wilderness alone with grave injuries. But he was driven by his thirst for revenge. Follow Against the Odds wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Against the Odds early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
47:13 Scaachi Koul? It's 1996, and we're back at Old Jogi, the Wildenstein's sprawling ranch in Kenya. Since their secret wedding almost 20 years ago, Alec and Jocelyn have had a relatively happy marriage. The couple has two children, who are now teenagers. And while Daniel is still technically at the head of the Wildenstein empire, Alec and his younger brother Guy are essentially running things. Guy handles most of the administrative side of the business, and Alec is in charge of selling artwork. Meanwhile, Jocelyn is singularly devoted to the expansion and upkeep of Old Jogi, which has become her favorite place on earth. She lives there almost full-time, and her parents even stay at the ranch with her,
47:54 Scaachi Koul? which keeps her from getting too lonely when Alec is away on business in New York or Paris. And Jocelyn has outfitted it to the nines. Remember, she's a decorator. It has 200 buildings, more than 50 man-made lakes, and nearly 400 servants. There's even an elementary school and a high school for the staff's children. An endless array of rhinos, giraffes, and big cats roam the ranch within an electric fence. And Jocelyn has a plexiglass cage built above her bathtub for her pet monkey.
48:26 Sarah Hagi? You know, I'm sure her marriage isn't great, and she's being treated like shit, but that is no excuse to do colonialism, basically.
48:36 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
48:37 Sarah Hagi? It's messed up. I know it happens all over the world. I know this is how resorts are built. But it is just so upsetting to hear these details.
48:45 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I feel bad for the monkey. Well, Jocelyn and Alec live lavishly on and off the ranch. She recently bought a $350,000 Chanel dress and owns around $10 million worth of jewelry. She estimates that she and Alec spend around $1 million a month, and that their yearly wine budget alone is upward of half a million dollars. Today, they're celebrating their daughter's 17th birthday by unveiling the $3 million mansion they built for her at Old Jogi. But even with all this luxury, Alec is still under his father's thumb. Jocelyn has enjoyed the wealth, but she's aware that none of it is really hers. It's all controlled by her father-in-law, who's still in charge of the entire family's finances.
49:29 Sarah Hagi? It is absolutely insane. He is in charge of the entire family's finances? But, I mean, how short of a leash are they on when they're able to do all this crap to Old Jogi?
49:42 Scaachi Koul? That's probably the only thing they get to do. Well, like any long marriage, there's some strain in the background. Jocelyn is 51 now, and she's been keeping up her appearances with plastic surgery. Like, a lot of plastic surgery. She started getting facelifts in her 30s around the time that she and Alec got married. Alec even went with her a few times to get his own facelifts done. But Jocelyn grew increasingly worried about looking old, so she kept going back. She sees the procedures as regular maintenance. But some people, including Alec, think that she's gone too far. We have a picture of her from around this time, and it's worth keeping in mind that in the late 90s, visible plastic surgery wasn't as common as it is now, so people
50:27 Scaachi Koul? find her appearance particularly shocking.
50:31 Sarah Hagi? Yes, I mean, I don't need to once again mention how prevalent she was in the daytime television circuit, but I will say, it is so fascinating because the type of work she's getting, like, of course, plastic surgery-type looks are pretty much normalized at this point, but it's like she doesn't have more work done than people do now, but it's just the technology isn't quite there. She just looks too otherworldly compared to other people. And this photo certainly is not helping because, as you know, everyone called her the Catwoman, and here she is posing with like a taxidermied cheetah, for like a magazine, I guess.
51:10 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, they look alike.
51:12 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's like, no shit, everyone's gonna call you a Catwoman, you put a cat right there.
51:16 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, maybe by design. Well, Jocelyn knows that her husband doesn't love her surgery habit, but she doesn't really care. She wants to look young, and she's convinced that her procedures help. It's worth noting that no matter how much ridicule she'll get about her appearance over the years to come, she always stands by it. She loves the way she looks, and no one can take that from her. But regardless of how great Jocelyn feels about her appearance and her life on the ranch, she's struggling with her marriage. She can feel her husband growing increasingly distant, and she worries that his eyes are starting to wander. Things come to a head the following year, in 1997, when Jocelyn's father dies suddenly of pneumonia while staying with her at Old Jogi.
51:59 Scaachi Koul? Alec is in New York at the time, so Jocelyn calls him and asks him to come be with her. But he just can't be bothered. It takes him 14 days to finally fly to Kenya to be with his grieving wife. During that time, she keeps her dead father's body in a fridge. She insists that they can't bury him until they find the perfect ebony coffin.
52:21 Sarah Hagi? One thing about the story that is really hitting me is that it's kind of like Cronenberg-esque with body horror and weird stuff. Like, there's a lot to react to here. First of all, 14 days to fly to Kenya to be with your grieving wife automatically go to jail. Second of all, the idea of finding the perfect ebony coffin and keeping your dad refrigerated until then is so twisted. I feel like I would need a degree, like a psychological degree, to unpack what this all means to these people. It's nuts.
52:57 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, we are now fully through the looking glass. And not long after, the two mutually decide to get a divorce. That's when Daniel steps in. He was against this marriage from the beginning, and now that it's ending in divorce, which was always his greatest fear, he doesn't hesitate to wage war against Jocelyn. The Wildensteins are not willing to give her anything in the split. Suddenly, Alec cuts off Jocelyn's credit cards and fights to give her as little as possible in alimony. And then, the final straw. She receives a fax informing her that she's no longer welcome at the family townhouse in New York. That brings us back to our opening scene, and maybe the most dramatic moment in this whole saga.
53:41 Scaachi Koul? Jocelyn bursting in on Alec and Alec drawing a pistol. Jocelyn won't let Alec push her around, and the ensuing fight is about to make headlines that risk unraveling the Wildensteins' entire empire.
53:58 Scaachi Koul? It's September 3rd, 1997, in New York City. Somewhere in Manhattan, Alec Wildenstein steps out onto the sidewalk after spending a night in jail. For the average adult man, spending a night in jail because you had a violent tantrum would already be humiliating. But for Alec, it is much, much worse. Because this morning, as he makes his way home, he sees his own face splashed across the covers of tabloids all over the city. And Jocelyn's face, too. The tabloids are obsessed with her, dubbing her the Catwoman and the Bride of Wildenstein. Per Daniel's wishes, the family has always managed to stay out of the press. Now, Alec's arrest has exposed them to public scrutiny and given the tabloids a story about
54:42 Scaachi Koul? a secretive, rich family, a messy divorce, and a woman whose appearance they can mock endlessly.
54:50 Sarah Hagi? I feel like this era of tabloids was pretty crazy, to say the least, like 1997. But it is really funny that this family that has maintained their privacy for so long, suddenly, people find out these crazy details about them, like almost shattering the illusion of this quote-unquote classy family that doesn't have these crazy, dramatic problems. And the woman everyone's calling Catwoman is a part of it.
55:17 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, the whole thing is a perfectly written nightmare. Alec can't even imagine how his father will react, or what kind of damage control it'll take to move past this. But what Alec doesn't yet realize is that things are about to get much, much worse. Because the very morning he's released from jail, The New York Times publishes an article highlighting the history of art stolen by the Nazis, and it features the Wildenstein's. The Times leans heavily on Hector's reporting, and the article explains that since the publication of his book in France, a family has come forward trying to reclaim art that they say rightfully belongs to them, but is now a part of the Wildenstein collection. Daniel, the now 79-year-old, famously press-shy patriarch,
56:02 Scaachi Koul? suddenly has a lot to say. Can you read this quote from the article?
56:06 Sarah Hagi? Yes, Daniel says, "I can't understand the claim. It's an absolutely crazy thing, 100 years after an object was bought, to come with a claim without any paper whatsoever. They claim it 50 years later. They had no claim for 50 years. I tell you something. If tomorrow someone steals a picture from me, I make a declaration to the police that it's stolen. After 30 years, the man who stole it owns it."
56:32 Sarah Hagi? Okay, so you're saying that this didn't happen, but if you did, is this like the OJ thing? Like, "I didn't do it, but if I did," like, what? Also, clearly, he understands the reasoning behind it, but this type of deflection of like, "And you know what? Whoever stole it, it's theirs because it's been 30 years." That's not how theft works, bro. Shut up.
56:53 Scaachi Koul? It is British Museum rules, for sure. While people in the art world are genuinely shocked by Daniel's stubborn and heartless reaction, for years, there have been whispers about the Wildensteins. And now, on the exact same day, the family is hit with two public scandals at once. As he trudges home, Alec has no idea what's about to unfold. Because now that Jocelyn has the press's attention, she's ready to drag the Wildenstein name through the mud. And what starts as one messy divorce will end with a century's worth of unveiled secrets, including France's biggest tax evasion scandal to date, all thanks to the other women the Wildensteins thought they could just throw away.
57:40 Scaachi Koul? Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.
57:49 Sarah Hagi? From Audible Originals, this is The Wildenstein's Part One, The Art of the Steal for Scamfluencers. I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected] . We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were "The Inheritance Case That Could Unravel an Art Dynasty" by Rachel Corbett for The New York Times, "What Money Can't Buy" by Eric Koningsberg for New York Magazine, and "Joseline's Revenge" by Jonathan Becker for Vanity Fair. Gabrielle Drolle wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagee. Olivia Brierly is our story editor. Our senior producers are Sarah Enni and Ginny Bloom. Our associate producer
58:33 Sarah Hagi? is Charlotte Miller. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Fact checking by Kalina Newman. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio systems provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Frieze on Sync. The executive producer for Audible is Jenny Lauer Beckman. The head of creative development at Audible is Kate Navin. The head of Audible Originals North America is Marshall Louis. The chief content officer is Rachel Giatza. Copyright 2026 by Audible Originals LLC. Sound recording copyright 2026 by Audible Originals LLC.
59:09 Speaker 05 On January 24, 2023, in Ducksbury, Massachusetts, Patrick Clancy called 911. He had found his wife Lindsay badly injured and his three children dead and dying. What followed would become one of the most searing and complicated cases in recent memory, raising hard questions about motherhood, mental illness, and how far our justice system will go to understand what really happened. I'm Candace DeLong, host of the podcast Killer Psyche. In our latest episode, we take you inside the case of Lindsay Clancy, the postpartum psychosis defense, the courtroom battle, and the trial that just ended in a stunning mistrial.
59:52 Speaker 05 Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Killer Psyche one week early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
Previous Bill Mize: The Car Crash King | 221 Next The Wildenstein Family Part 2: The Art of the Steal | 223 Page updated October 29, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated