William Neil Gallagher: The Money Doctor | 210

William Neil Gallagher has been called the Bernie Madoff of North Texas. But while both men defrauded millions of people, William added an evangelical twist. Presenting himself as a devout man of God, he promised his flock financial security – then quietly stole their retirement accounts and savings, transforming from a shepherd into a wolf. When the truth finally emerged, the faithful learned the man the trusted most had been preying on them all along. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sarah Hagi?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:15Sarah Hagi?

  Tachi, when it comes to finances, do you ever have like a let go and let God kind of approach?

• 0:21Scaachi Koul?

  No, famously not. I don't clutch my pocketbook. I'll gladly buy you a soda pop, you know? But like, no, you gotta know where your money's coming from and where it's going to.

• 0:31Sarah Hagi?

  Listen, sometimes I do low-key have a let go and let God approach where it's, you know, I haven't had full-time employment in years. I work in the arts. I do kind of leave it all to feeling like it will work out in the end. Numbers on a screen, you know what I mean? It stresses you out.

• 0:47Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I can't even hear this. It's making me nauseous.

• 0:50Sarah Hagi?

  I'm not bad with money, but I, you know, comes and goes sometimes.

• 0:54Scaachi Koul?

  That is okay.

• 0:56Sarah Hagi?

  Okay.

• 0:56Scaachi Koul?

  I trust you.

• 0:58Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, well, as much as I tell myself it will all work out in the end, one thing I would truly never do is get financial advice from someone who has as much faith as I do that things will work out. And I gotta say, our scammer today prayed on one of the most vulnerable groups imaginable, very let go and let God type of people, elderly Christians.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  I'm Gemma Whelan, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari, a famous dancer turned World War I secret agent, accused of seducing Allied officers to uncover their plans. But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari early and ad-free on Audible.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  I'm Lauren Malloy, the host of the podcast My Mom's Murder. For 30 years, I thought my mom died of natural causes. That's what everyone told me. That's what I believed. Until one day, I got a phone call that changed everything. A woman claiming to be my mom's best friend told me my mother was murdered and that no one had ever investigated it. So I did what the detectives wouldn't, pulled the threads, knocked on doors, and confronted the contradictions. And what I found, it's worse than I imagined. Something happened to my mom. Someone killed her. And I won't stop until I find out who.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  The system may have given up on my mom, but I never will. Listen to My Mom's Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 10 episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 2:56Sarah Hagi?

  It's March 2019, and Court Thomas is walking toward a modest office building just outside of Fort Worth, Texas. Court is in his mid-30s, clean cut, with dark brown hair and a boyish face. On most days, he works as a trial attorney. But today, he's working on behalf of the SEC as a court-appointed receiver. That means a federal judge has given him temporary control of the business inside. Court's job is to secure records, preserve assets, and figure out where exactly the money went. Because according to the SEC, the financial advisor who runs this office, William Neil Gallagher, has stolen nearly $25 million from his clients.

• 3:40Sarah Hagi?

  William is a bit of a celebrity in the Dallas-Fort Worth Christian community. He's in his 70s, sturdy with a shock of silver hair and a personality that fills up every room he enters. His vibe is somewhere between Jordan Belfort and Joel Osteen, part high-octane salesman, part enthusiastic preacher. He doesn't just give financial advice. He delivers it like a sermon, preaching his message on local Christian radio stations.

• 4:08Speaker 04

  Faith in the future delivers power in the present. That's not a cheap and flippant promise, but it's true.

• 4:16Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, Sarah, this is already a very inauspicious start. You know how I feel about religious leaders who merge gospel and financial services.

• 4:27Sarah Hagi?

  Yes, and this kind of evangelizing is a big part of William's appeal. And for more than two decades, it worked. Investors trusted him with their savings, and William delivered what looked like steady, almost miraculous, returns. But Court isn't here today as a fan. He's got an entourage of SEC attorneys, an IT specialist, and a locksmith. And when they step inside William's office, they find an absolute pigsty. Every inch of the office is covered with stacks of paperwork, overflowing banker's boxes, and straight-up trash. Court runs his hands through his hair, trying not to stress.

• 5:09Sarah Hagi?

  Tracking down the missing money is going to be a massive job. An office door cracks open, and Court spots William. He watches William's face drop when he serves him the SEC's complaint accusing William of securities fraud. Around them, investigators start collecting evidence, and Court tells William he's not allowed to touch his computer from this point on. William just scoffs and says, "He doesn't own a computer."

• 5:37Scaachi Koul?

  Can you imagine giving your life savings to some guy who's, like, not tracking it digitally at all?

• 5:44Sarah Hagi?

  Yes.

• 5:45Scaachi Koul?

  He's written it down somewhere, and you better hope there isn't a fire? What do you mean, you don't have a computer?

• 5:50Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, it's also 2019, like, how is that even possible?

• 5:54Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 5:55Sarah Hagi?

  And when Court tries to interview William, he evades questions and refuses to provide a list of his assets. Then William asks if he's free to leave. Court doesn't have the ability to detain him. He's a lawyer, not a member of law enforcement, so he says yes. But William's not getting off scot-free. When he steps outside, the local police are waiting for him. Before they take him in, an SEC agent asks William if he has any cash or credit card in his pockets. William shakes his head no. But when his pockets are searched, an officer finds a large, wadded-up roll of cash. Court's not totally surprised. After all, this is a man accused of lying to his clients' faces for years.

• 6:39Sarah Hagi?

  As Court watches William be put in a police car, he marvels at the contrast. To many in the community, William is an upstanding Christian financial advisor, a man who quoted scripture and talked about stewardship. But according to federal investigators, he's something else entirely, a fraud who preyed on people's faith. And now, unless there's some kind of divine intervention, he's going to face very earthly consequences.

• 7:14Speaker 05

  Journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia spent her life exposing powerful people. Then, in 2017, she was killed in a car bombing. I'm Stephen Gray, and for the past nine years, I've been trying to find out who wanted her dead. That search took me to Malta through secret companies, organized crime, and eventually to one of the island's richest and most powerful men. Now, after years of waiting, his trial has finally happened. But when the verdict came in, the case took a turn almost no one had expected. In a brand-new update to the multi-award-winning podcast Who Killed Daphne? I'm returning to Malta to find out how we got there and where the search for the truth goes next. Listen to the new episode of Who Killed Daphne wherever you get your podcasts,

• 7:59Speaker 05

  and you can hear the full six-part investigation from the beginning, ad-free with Audible. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app and by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 8:13Sarah Hagi?

  Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go, deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

• 8:35Sarah Hagi?

  From Audible Originals, I'm Sarah Haggie. And I'm Sachi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers.

• 8:49Sarah Hagi?

  William Neil Gallagher has been called "The Bernie Madoff of North Texas." But while both men defrauded millions of people, William added an evangelical twist. He presented himself as a devout man of God, a shepherd guiding his flock toward financial security. Then he prayed on his elderly clients by weaponizing their faith against them. William's original mission may have been sincere. At one point, he may have even believed in his own gospel. But somewhere along the way, the line between ministry and money blurred. The prophet became more interested in prophets and transformed from a shepherd into a wolf. And the empire he built on trust started to rest on something far less holy.

• 9:33Sarah Hagi?

  This is William Neil Gallagher: The False Prophet.

• 9:39Sarah Hagi?

  It's the early 1960s in Chiang Mai, Thailand, and 22-year-old William is sitting in a busy café in the heart of the city. He trips over his words as he tries to order lunch. He's only been in Thailand for a few months and is still figuring out the language. When the server asks him a question, William just nods and hands back the menu. Whatever arrives at the table will be lunch. William is a long way from the Massachusetts tenement where he grew up. His childhood was rough. His father left after he was born, and his stepfather, a quiet, distant alcoholic, died when William was 15. In his autobiography, William describes surviving alongside his mother and brothers on welfare

• 10:22Sarah Hagi?

  and living in rat-infested government housing. William couldn't wait to grow up and get away. He overcomes his rocky upbringing, graduates from Rhode Island College, and somewhere along the way discovers the speeches of John F. Kennedy. One line in particular stood out to him. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." William took this literally, and after graduation, he signed up for the Peace Corps.

• 10:52Sarah Hagi?

  Now, William is teaching English in a village in northern Thailand and caring for people at a nearby leper colony. He's doing his best to learn and live as a Thai, but today, he's finding that easier said than done. A man at the next table notices William looking defeated and tells him in English to chin up. His name is Don, and he's an American missionary. William's never been particularly religious, and the more Don talks about God and Jesus, the more William fights the urge to argue with him. But later, William can't shake his chat with Don. He's eager to prove God doesn't exist, so he starts reading the Bible, convinced it's all bullshit. But the more he reads,

• 11:34Sarah Hagi?

  the more he finds himself drawn to its message. Before he knows it, William goes from a non-believer to accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. We can't say for sure why William embraced Christianity, but maybe after such a chaotic upbringing, he found solace and stability in the Bible's message.

• 11:55Scaachi Koul?

  I'm sure that was part of it, but I think it's always so tricky to know the origin stories with these guys because it's their job to sell a story about how they came to the faith.

• 12:06Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, and also, I guess he was just homesick and fell for the first American message he could find.

• 12:12Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I guess so. First recognizable voice.

• 12:15Sarah Hagi?

  While energized by his newfound faith, William sets his sights on a new mission: spreading the Word of God. He returns to the US and moves to Fort Worth, Texas to study at the Brown Trail School of Preaching. In 1966, while he works toward a dual master's degree in religion and philosophy, he meets and marries a woman named Gail. She's attractive and shy, the quiet yin to William's gregarious yang. But Gail's not the only one William falls in love with. He also becomes smitten with Texas. William is drawn to the pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality of the Lone Star State. No one is waiting

• 12:55Sarah Hagi?

  around for the government to save them. Here, they believe success is earned, not granted. For someone who grew up on welfare and pulled himself out of the cycle, this message probably hits hard. William came to Texas to continue his spiritual journey. But now he finds his politics are shifting too, and they're going in one direction: to the right.

• 13:18Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, perfect. I mean, this is someone who was getting a lot of aid as a young person and now doesn't want anybody else to get that aid. He wants to pull the ladder up behind him.

• 13:28Sarah Hagi?

  Yes, and William preaches around Fort Worth for a few years before heading back north to pursue a PhD in philosophy at Brown University. He says he came here because he, quote, "felt that God wanted him to get a quality PhD." After completing his dissertation, William struggles to get a job in academia, and he blames another government policy: affirmative action.

• 13:53Scaachi Koul?

  Isn't it funny that you can notice where and when people like William decide to believe in personal responsibility? It's just something to think about, you know?

• 14:01Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, also, you're telling me a PhD in philosophy had a hard time finding a job? Shocking. And at this point, William has fully embraced conservatism, and he's not going to let anyone hold him back from his goal of spreading God's Word. If he can't do it through academia, he'll have to find another way, one that will bring him an even bigger audience.

• 14:29Sarah Hagi?

  It's 1977 in Los Angeles, and William is stepping onto the soundstage of the ABC interview show Issues and Answers. The set is smaller and simpler than he expected, just a few chairs set up in front of a blue background. Still, William has to pinch himself. He's actually gonna be on TV. William is 36 now and looking for ways to become an influential Christian voice in American culture. He's been invited on the show today to discuss a book he wrote. Since getting his PhD, William has become the minister of a church in Providence, Rhode Island. He's also been building a family with Gail. They have two biological kids and adopted another one from India.

• 15:13Sarah Hagi?

  William has spent years trying to live a Christian life in New England, helping the needy and spreading God's word. But service isn't enough. He wants to have a bigger impact. For a few years, William moved his family around the country, finding work with various Christian organizations, including a nonprofit that specialized in boycotts against companies supporting LGBTQ rights and abortion access. William is looking to gain influence by fighting against immorality, which explains the title of the book he's promoting on national television today: How to Stop the Porno Plague.

• 15:51Scaachi Koul?

  These guys are obsessed with how strangers are jerking off. It's a big waste.

• 15:55Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, and you know what? It's freaking weird to talk about that so much. Like, it is weird that is something that is a big topic of conversation.

• 16:04Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. I'm also really interested to hear William's ideas for how to stop porn, because presumably it involves destroying the right to free speech. And I thought he loved personal liberty so much.

• 16:15Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah. Something tells me that William doesn't care about being hypocritical as long as he's getting attention.

• 16:20Scaachi Koul?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:21Sarah Hagi?

  And as he settles into a chair on set, William shakes the hands of the other panelists: a professor, a journalist, and a representative from the ACLU. He's excited to discuss his theories about how to rid America of pornography. But his excitement fades when the interview begins, because the other panelists rip his ideas to shreds. William later describes it as an ambush. But as William pushes back on the panelists' criticism, his confidence grows. He tells himself they wouldn't be attacking him if he wasn't telling the truth. And something else happens in the middle of this discomfort. William realizes he loves being in the spotlight. Spreading God's message makes him feel good,

• 17:06Sarah Hagi?

  but it feels even better when he gets to be the star. Sure, the other guests might think William's a fool, but at least he's important enough for them to tell him that on national television.

• 17:17Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, you know, all press is good press. I guess to him, it's about attention and not actually about morality.

• 17:25Sarah Hagi?

  Exactly. And William finds all this moral crusading invigorating, but nonprofits and niche books will only take him so far. If he wants real reach and real power, he needs to make some real money. So he pivots to finance. He becomes a securities broker and moves to Memphis to start his new career. For William, this shift probably seems like a natural extension of his beliefs. Not only is he able to earn more money to give back to charity, he's also able to help people grow their wealth. More wealth means more independence and freedom, and less need for government handouts. But securities is a crowded industry, and William needs to find a way to stand out.

• 18:10Sarah Hagi?

  So he's going to let his love of the Lord and the spotlight lead the way.

• 18:19Sarah Hagi?

  It's the 1990s in Dallas, Texas, and William is sitting behind a mic in a recording studio. He smooths back his thick, silver hair, slides on a pair of headphones, and waits for the red light to flip on. He's at a Christian radio station about to record an hour-long show about financial planning. But this time, William isn't a guest, he's the host. William is in his 50s now. After several years selling securities in Memphis, he and his family returned to the Fort Worth area, where he started attending seminars hosted by motivational speaker Zig Ziglar. By the 90s, Zig had built a self-help empire with a folksy, charismatic speaking style, an unwavering faith in God,

• 19:04Sarah Hagi?

  and a passion for helping others that resonated deeply with William. Here's a clip of Zig from a speech entitled, "How to Get Everything in Life You Want."

• 19:13Speaker 06

  Here's a philosophy I built my life on, my career on. You can have everything in life you want. You'll just have enough other people get what they want.

• 19:24Scaachi Koul?

  You know, I guess my knee jerk reaction to this is that it's actually a perfectly reasonable ideology. Like, if you want to feel good in the world and feel good about yourself, you should help other people feel good about themselves. But if you dig deeper into this, it's actually the only real motivation for being nice to other people is self-interest. It's just so that you can get something else.

• 19:45Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, it truly just doesn't work fundamentally outside of sounding nice.

• 19:52Sarah Hagi?

  So William takes Zig's message to heart and runs with it. In the early 90s, he opened his own investment firm in Hurst, Texas, called The Gallagher Financial Group. But he never gets legally certified to give financial advice or trade in securities. We're not sure why, but he doesn't let a little thing like the law stop him. William's goal is to help others take the reins of their financial futures, especially people who are about to retire. And he discovers a direct line to these potential clients through AM Christian Radio. As he fine tunes his branding, he chooses a not at all misleading DJ name,

• 20:34Sarah Hagi?

  The Money Doctor. He got to use that PhD after all. Here's a clip from one of his episodes.

• 20:40Speaker 07

  This is Doc Gallagher. Call me at 972-445-0770 with your questions and concerns about anything having to do with money.

• 20:51Scaachi Koul?

  In no other circumstance, if somebody just stood around and was like, hey, please tell me about your sensitive financial information and concerns, would you be like, yeah, let me tell this stranger that stuff. But because it's on the radio, because it's like authority of somebody, because they're on the radio, you're gonna call and be like, yeah, let me get financial help from you, stranger.

• 21:15Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, it's also so funny to use doc that way. It's not even close to what he's a doctor for, but whatever.

• 21:22Scaachi Koul?

  Money doctor. My wallet is sick.

• 21:26Scaachi Koul?

  Like that.

• 21:26Sarah Hagi?

  Okay, that's genius, by the way.

• 21:28Scaachi Koul?

  See?

• 21:30Sarah Hagi?

  On air, Doc speaks a mile a minute into the microphone about compound interest and 401k alternatives. He shares his early experiences with poverty to build credibility with and sympathy from his audience. He encourages them to open investment accounts with his company. And he wraps up every show with the same signature line.

• 21:52Speaker 07

  The number one question to ask is, if I didn't have any money with you, would you still care about me?

• 21:59Scaachi Koul?

  Ah, is that it? It seems like everyone's kind of engaging in an exchange of goods and services here. I didn't even think that would come up.

• 22:08Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, I mean, listen, am I going to ask someone who's offering me a service if they'd like me if I wasn't getting their service?

• 22:15Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Sarah Hagi?

  No, because I don't care.

• 22:17Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, it doesn't matter.

• 22:18Sarah Hagi?

  William knows his listeners are more likely to do business with someone they feel is a friend or neighbor. The Christian community is incredibly trusting, at least when it comes to other Christians. And the strategy works. Over the years, he builds up a loyal client base and establishes Doc Gallagher as a minor celebrity on AM radio. William's life is finally coming into focus. He's the head of a successful business, stable in his finances, and living Christ's message by helping others obtain wealth too. But success comes at a cost, because William has cut some corners to achieve it. And if the truth ever gets out,

• 23:01Sarah Hagi?

  it won't just destroy William's reputation, it'll shatter his family's too.

• 23:08Sarah Hagi?

  It's the early 2000s in Hurst, Texas. Matthew Gallagher knocks tentatively on his dad's office door. Matthew is William's son, the one William and Gail adopted from India in 1980. Now in his 30s, Matthew is a certified financial planner at his dad's firm. He also often co-hosts William's radio shows. Matthew believes in the mission, but today, he's nervous as he enters his dad's office. Because he's about to have a very uncomfortable conversation. Matthew confronts his dad with an invoice for hundreds of hours of radio time. Because, guess what, Sachi? William's not actually employed by the radio station. He's buying that airtime.

• 23:54Sarah Hagi?

  And the station hasn't been too concerned about labeling William's show as an ad. To most listeners, Doc's show feels like regular programming. But in reality, it's paid content. And William has been making these radio buys for years.

• 24:10Scaachi Koul?

  This is crazy because this is also the only way he's had authority is because he was a voice on the radio. But he was buying it.

• 24:17Sarah Hagi?

  Exactly. It's pay to play at its most pathetic, but to him, it's necessary marketing. He hasn't been in the best financial shape lately. And Matthew is worried his dad is digging himself into a hole. A few years ago in 1999, the Texas State Securities Board dinged William for misrepresenting himself. They fined him $25,000 for falsifying records and calling himself an investment advisor. William denied the charges, but accepted their order. Two years later, William sold his brokerage and gave up his license. He pivoted once again, this time into non-securities investments, creating a new investment program he called a diversified growth and income account.

• 25:03Sarah Hagi?

  He's been trying to get the new business up on its feet, but William's bleeding cash. About the only thing he still has is his radio show, which is a commercial. Matthew can tell his dad is annoyed about being confronted like this, but he works for the Gallagher Financial Group too. He has skin in the game. And he's worried that William's radio plays are more about boosting his ego than marketing the business. But William just snaps back at his son, telling him to keep his concerns to himself.

• 25:35Sarah Hagi?

  Matthew leaves his father's office shaken. William is clearly spending money he doesn't have to stay on air and preach financial wisdom in a way that borders on giving professional advice, which William is still not licensed to do. It's not great, and Matthew's right to be wary. Because while doubling down as the money doctor may bring him more followers in the short term, it will lead William to stray even further from God's light.

• 26:14Sarah Hagi?

  It's 2015, and at a nice suburban home outside of Fort Worth, Carol Herman answers her door to find a slick, smiling man in his early 70s. He offers his hand and introduces himself as William Gallagher, but he tells her to call him Doc. Carol welcomes him inside to meet her husband, James. They're both in their 60s and approaching retirement. And after hearing one of Doc's radio ads during his commute, James reached out to the Gallagher Financial Group to set up a consultation. As devout Christians, they appreciate Doc's God-focused way of investing. Right away, the couple finds Doc warm and friendly.

• 26:55Sarah Hagi?

  Carol explains what they're looking for: more access to their savings while still generating returns. James is a cancer survivor, and because of that scare, she wants to make sure they're fully prepared for any problems that could crop up during retirement. Doc nods and takes her hand, his eyes full of compassion. He tells the Hermans he's helped many people like them. Choosing a financial advisor is all about trust, and he assures them. He knows all of those shady Wall Street hucksters' tricks because he used to be one of them. Now, he only wants to use his insider knowledge for good.

• 27:36Scaachi Koul?

  Saji, this is a theme he returns to again and again on his radio show. Here's a clip from one episode.

• 27:43Speaker 07

  "Colleagues, I know you're listening because you try to refute everything I say on Monday when your clients come in, or you pass it on to your legal department in New York or St. Louis, try to find a way to silence me, but you know I'm telling the truth because I have been there."

• 27:56Scaachi Koul?

  You know, I do respect just a bold liar. He's just lying. I guess in a sense, you know, he has been there, but just on the opposite side, which is that he is the scam artist that everybody's worried about.

• 28:09Sarah Hagi?

  Yes, he does know about tricking people because he's doing it right now. William gives the Hermans a binder full of information about his firm's strategy. There are also pictures of Doc with preacher Joel Austen and retired Texas Rangers pitcher Nolan Ryan. Doc explains that he puts his clients' investments into five categories, a structure he says protects their money from market fluctuations and allows him to deliver an annual return of 5% to 8%. The Hermans are impressed. This kind of return is unheard of. Doc tells them to take all the time they need. This is a big decision, and he doesn't

• 28:50Sarah Hagi?

  want them to feel pressured. But the Hermans have already made up their minds. Shortly after meeting with Doc, they withdraw all of the money in their retirement accounts, around $750,000, and move it into the Gallagher Financial Group. The returns Doc guarantees are simply too tempting to pass up. A month later, the Hermans are pleased when they get their first check, exactly as Doc promised. To them, it must feel like confirmation that they made the right choice. But elsewhere, some of William's other clients are starting to wonder if the money Doctor's Financial promised land is little more than a mirage.

• 29:34Sarah Hagi?

  Around the same time William meets the Hermans, a woman in her 50s named Deborah Carter saunters into William's office and closes the door. William's at his desk, which is covered in piles of paperwork. Deborah squeezes past a stack of overflowing file boxes and hands him an envelope. His eyes light up when he opens it and finds a list of potential new investors. Deborah smiles, and then she gives him something more: a big, old kiss. Okay, well, something tells me that was not a smooch of the Lord between the two of them. No, no, no, no, no. Deborah is William's former colleague and his current mistress.

• 30:17Sarah Hagi?

  They met back in the 80s when they were both working for a securities firm in Dallas. They kept in touch, and in 2001, around the same time William gave up his broker's license, he and Deborah started up an affair. Surprise, surprise, William isn't quite the upstanding Christian man he claims to be. But Deborah isn't just the other woman. She's also William's right-hand woman in a lucrative scheme to defraud his investors. Deborah and William began their fraud two years ago in 2013. It's unclear why they did so. William will later claim he did it to support charitable causes. But the same year he started his scheme, he had an insurance deal go bust

• 31:01Sarah Hagi?

  and was ordered to pay $200,000 to his investors. So that could have something to do with it. What we do know is that he and Deborah have been using his investors' money to buy up a lot of rural land around Dallas. The way Doc's scheme works is depressingly familiar. William signs up new investors, promising incredible returns. And while he does pay out his returns as promised, the money isn't coming from his wise investing. It comes straight from the cash infusions of his new clients. Say it with me, it's a classic Ponzi scheme.

• 31:39Sarah Hagi?

  When Deborah isn't scamming with Doc, her actual job is as an estate planning specialist for a Christian TV channel. She uses her connections there to refer Doc to new clients and new victims. Instead of investing his clients' money in companies, Doc invests in himself. Along with the land he's been grabbing, Doc buys more and more airtime for his radio show. He also invests in a shady gold mining company and buys a million shares in another company called Hoverlink, which specializes in recreational hovercrafts, sci-fi body armor, and cancer drugs. Oh, and the CEO of this hovercraft pharmaceutical company, it's Deborah.

• 32:23Sarah Hagi?

  Doc relies on her to move and hide the money he's stealing from investors. She's a fraud whiz laundering investor cash through rental homes, fake charities, and shell companies like Hoverlink. Okay, I mean, God, why does she know how to do this so well? She is actually a little too good at this because it isn't her first fraud rodeo. Five years earlier, she stole a notary stamp and used it to illegally transfer land from her dead husband to herself, who, by the way, she abandoned after he got sick with leukemia, telling him, quote, "I'm not a caregiver." Well, I mean, that's feminism. Yeah. Yeah, that is a woman's right to choose, for one thing.

• 33:08Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah. After reviewing Deborah's latest list of potential investors, William returns to his paperwork, but Deborah pulls him close. She tells William they're raking in cash left and right. It's time to do what they said they would: retire together on a ranch. Here's where I remind you that Doc is still very much married to his wife, Gail. William keeps promising Deborah that their time will come, but he's not quite ready yet. For one, he still needs to bring in new investors to keep their operation running. Deborah scowls. She's heard this line before, but what can she do? She's in too deep with William at this point to walk away. And William isn't wrong.

• 33:52Sarah Hagi?

  The whole foundation of their little empire relies on landing new investors and hoping none of them ask any questions. William and Deborah are putting on a one-tree-hill front for their good Christian audiences. But the reality is a soapy, illicit, and Texan as a dynasty rerun. That same year in 2015, Steve Richardson is sitting at his desk in a looming glass office building in Austin, Texas, when the phone rings. Steve is middle-aged, with a deep voice and close-cropped white hair. He's a fraud investigator for the Texas Department of Insurance. On the other end of this call is a representative from Alliance,

• 34:36Sarah Hagi?

  a company that specializes in life insurance and annuities. The insurance rep explains to Steve that a man named William Neil Gallagher tried to make several withdrawals from an annuity belonging to one of his clients, who has dementia. William claimed he was doing it on his client's behalf, but the rep discovered that the client's grandson holds power of attorney, not William, and the grandson never authorized any withdrawals. Alarm bells blare in Steve's head. This type of behavior is clearly very shady, and to a seasoned fraud investigator like him, it's all too familiar. So he opens up an investigation into the so-called money doctor. Steve quietly subpoenas William's bank statements and quickly

• 35:21Sarah Hagi?

  figures out the truth. The money doctor's running a Ponzi scheme.

• 35:27Scaachi Koul?

  It's crazy how all it takes is to look at what he's doing outside of a religious context and then you see all the criminality.

• 35:35Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, I mean, it took one person outside of this community to be like, wait a second.

• 35:40Scaachi Koul?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:41Sarah Hagi?

  As Steve combs through Doc's records, he manages to identify a few of Doc's clients. Many, like the Hermans, have transferred huge portions of their savings to Gallagher Financial Group, often cashing out their retirement accounts completely. Nearly all of them were elderly Christians. Now comes the hard part, telling people they're being misled. Not long after starting his investigation, Steve knocks on the door of a suburban Dallas home. A senior citizen answers the door, one of Doc's clients. Steve explains he's looking into Doc's business practices and asks to see their contract with his firm.

• 36:21Sarah Hagi?

  The clients say they don't have any paperwork from him, but Doc's a man of God and he wouldn't hurt a fly. Steve is taken aback, and as he interviews a dozen more of Doc's clients, they all tell him the same thing. None of them can produce a formal contract, but they all tell Steve stories about gifts Doc sends them, like flowers and Walmart gift cards. He hosts community events and supports charities. Heck, he even wrote a book called "Jesus Christ Money Master." Would a crook call his book that?

• 36:54Scaachi Koul?

  Famously, no evil people have ever written anything, never mind anything having to do with religion. Foolproof.

• 37:02Sarah Hagi?

  I mean, can't argue with that. Plus, William keeps a low profile. He lives in a basic house and his office is in a schlubby strip mall off the highway. He's not living an extravagant lifestyle. His clients have no reason not to believe him. Steve is convinced Doc's a bad guy, but if none of his clients want to participate in this investigation, it'll be hard to prove. Many of Doc's clients might be happy, but some are about to realize that Doc has been treating their life savings like Monopoly money. And when they do, William and Deborah will be in for a true come-to-Jesus reckoning.

• 37:43Sarah Hagi?

  It's 2017 in the suburbs outside Fort Worth. James Herman dials his phone, hands shaking with nerves. It's been two years since the Hermans emptied their 401Ks and invested with William. They've been getting their monthly payouts, just as Doc promised. But earlier this year, his wife Carol injured herself and had to retire from nursing. The Hermans' income was instantly cut in half, and now the medical bills are stacking up. So they've been trying to increase their monthly withdrawal amount, but Doc hasn't cooperated. Instead of giving them their money, Doc sent the Hermans fruit baskets and promised them a trip to the Holy Land.

• 38:25Sarah Hagi?

  By this point, Steve's investigation is in full swing. But he hasn't made contact with the Hermans yet, so they're trying to handle William on their own. As the phone rings, James takes a seat next to Carol, who's resting in bed. Doc picks up, and James cuts to the chase. They need money for their bills. They want to withdraw $100,000 of their savings. Doc offers his sympathies, but strongly advises against doing that. The Hermans would be depleting the principal on their investment, which would mean smaller returns. If they need the money this badly, maybe they should just take out a reverse mortgage on their house instead.

• 39:08Scaachi Koul?

  I don't think any good advice has ever started with "take out a reverse mortgage", or a second mortgage, or a third. If someone is telling you to mortgage your house in any capacity, you should be very, very suspicious.

• 39:22Sarah Hagi?

  Yes, and the Hermans are shocked and furious. They know this is preposterous advice, but they have to be careful. Doc has all of their money. James swallows his anger and says, "If Doc can't cooperate, then maybe it's time for them to look into investing with someone else." Doc gets cool and cagey. Hasn't he always delivered what he promised? Why are they backing him into a corner like this? But James is over Doc's bullshit. He tells Doc, not only do they want their money, they want to meet with him in person and go over the details of their account. There's a long pause on the other side of the phone. James and Carol share a look of concern. Did they piss him off?

• 40:08Sarah Hagi?

  Finally, Doc says, "Fine." He'll meet with them. A few weeks later, the Hermans park their car in front of the Gallagher Financial Group office. James and Carol are quiet and tense. This whole ordeal has revealed Doc's dark side, and the Hermans are not taking any chances. Before they leave their car to go inside, the Hermans make sure the guns in their pockets are locked and loaded. This is Texas after all. Well, you know, when in Rome. I mean, if I were to take a gun anywhere, it would be to get my $100,000. In Texas, yeah. The Hermans find Doc waiting for them in his trash-strewn office.

• 40:49Sarah Hagi?

  They're ready for an argument, but Doc surprises them with a big smile, suddenly back to his smooth, charming self. Doc offers them a seat and promises to clear up any confusion. The Hermans demand to know, where did Doc invest their money? And he hands them a single piece of paper that lists five investment categories. But the Hermans aren't making the same mistake twice. Instead of blindly trusting Doc, they ask more questions. For one, there's no mention of how much money is invested into each category. And this paper doesn't look like any financial account statement they've ever seen. Doc backtracks and explains, "This is how he's always worked." But the Hermans keep pressing.

• 41:32Sarah Hagi?

  They've withdrawn money from Doc in the past, but their overall balance never seems to go down. Doc fumbles through an answer, but the longer he speaks, it's clear that he has no legitimate explanation. The Hermans continue to press Doc and eventually leave his office with the $100,000 they came for. But it's a small victory. Doc still has control over a huge portion of their life savings. And if he fought this hard for a fraction of it, they can't imagine what he'll do if they try to close their entire account. The Hermans realize they're in deep trouble. But this time, they aren't calling Doc, they're calling the police.

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• 43:19Speaker 09

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• 43:20Speaker 10

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• 43:25Speaker 09

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• 43:32Speaker 10

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• 43:47Sarah Hagi?

  It's 2018, and at the Herman's suburban home outside of Dallas, insurance investigator Steve Richardson is chatting with James and Carol. As he interviews them about Doc, he thumbs through a binder Carol made containing all of their correspondence with the money doctor. Steve is impressed with her thoroughness. But more than anything, he's impressed that someone is finally willing to speak out against Doc. Steve's investigation has been going on for two years with little luck. But several months ago, he got a big break when a police detective from Hearst gave him a call. He'd received a complaint from an older couple named James and Carol Herman, and he thought Steve might be interested. He was right. Steve was very interested.

• 44:33Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, I bet Steve was just salivating. I know, especially after two years. Oh, he must have been champing at the bit.

• 44:42Sarah Hagi?

  Well, Steve teamed up with Hearst Police, the SEC, the Texas State Securities Board, and county prosecutors to track down more of Doc's records and to schedule interviews with his investors. At this point, Doc may have known the government was looking into him. Recently, he told his clients they shouldn't trust any government regulators or answer their questions. But if he does know the law is sniffing around, it hasn't stopped him from raising more money. And these new investors have horrible timing. Because after three years, Steve and his fellow investigators finally have enough evidence. The SEC secures an indictment against Doc alleging that he perpetrated an affinity fraud investment scheme,

• 45:27Sarah Hagi?

  which is when a scammer targets a specific group or community. In Doc's case, this means elderly Christians. All told, Doc is accused of misappropriating more than $20 million from about 60 investors. This takes us back to our opening scene. When the court receiver raids William's filthy office, William says he doesn't own a computer and then lies about having a wad of cash in his pocket like some kind of mob boss. William's been caught red-handed. Now, the only thing left to do is finally bring the money doctor to justice.

• 46:06Sarah Hagi?

  It's November 2021, and William is slumped over a table in front of a judge in a Fort Worth courthouse. He's waiting to be sentenced for his crimes. William is in his 80s now, and he looks every bit his age. His bright smile and sharp suit have been replaced by a tired scowl and a striped prison uniform. Behind him, dozens of his victims sit in the gallery, all waiting to testify about the ways Doc Gallagher destroyed their lives. It's been two years since William was charged by the SEC. When he was arrested, he seemed blindsided, but he didn't put up a fight. After years of smooth talking on the radio and in rooms with investors,

• 46:50Sarah Hagi?

  he must have realized there was no talking his way out of this one. A year after his arrest, William avoided trial by pleading guilty to the charges of securities fraud and money laundering. He was sentenced to 25 years in prison and ordered to pay $10.4 million in restitution. Then, a few months later, his mistress Deborah was arrested after Doc's wife Gail tipped off investigators.

• 47:17Scaachi Koul?

  Okay, listen, obviously, she should focus her energy on the man who cheated. However, this is iconic and I'm rooting for her and good for her.

• 47:28Sarah Hagi?

  It is iconic and it must have been real satisfying, I'll say that much.

• 47:32Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, she must have licked every one of her fingers when she made that phone call.

• 47:38Sarah Hagi?

  William's victims struggle to hold it together as they describe how he upended their lives. Their hard-earned savings are gone. Some have lost their homes and had to re-enter the workforce just to stay afloat. It's heart-wrenching to hear. The sad reality is, William was an elderly man himself who resorted to scamming his own peers. Throughout all of the testimony, William just sits there showing no remorse. After his victims finish their testimonies, the judge delivers her decision. She hands him three life sentences.

• 48:18Sarah Hagi?

  It's July 2022 in a small town northwest of Houston. William is walking through the prison yard, sweating in the triple-digit heat. His thick silver hair has been shaved off and he's lost a lot of weight. He chats briefly with a few other inmates, but for the most part, he keeps to himself. His son Matthew has come to visit him, but William doesn't have a lot of visitors these days. After his conviction, his wife Gail finally divorced him. And William's definitely not on speaking terms with his ex-mistress Deborah.

• 48:52Scaachi Koul?

  That feels right. I don't think this man deserves to ever speak to anybody again, never mind a woman.

• 48:57Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, the primary punishment is that he can no longer talk, or at least no one is listening. In 2024, Debra was brought to trial for her part in the scam. And unlike William, his fiery former mistress didn't just roll over. She served as her own lawyer at trial, and it didn't go well. Her ex-husband, former investors, and even William himself were brought in to testify. Prosecutors revealed that Debra laundered the money through her daughter's bank account and generated fraudulent financial reports. She also hid $2,000 worth of gold and silver at her home. Debra objected to these claims but was shot down by the judge every time.

• 49:41Sarah Hagi?

  She became so frustrated, she finally asked the court, quote, "Why am I here?" In a court filing, Debra referred to her trial as "a show trial in a kangaroo court." She called the judge "a tyrant" and says she's being subjected to a "satanic religious ceremony" and that the judge and prosecutors are participating in "war crimes" against her. She's suing for $1 billion in silver coin or the equivalent in Federal Reserve notes. And after a two-week trial, she received a life sentence in prison.

• 50:18Scaachi Koul?

  Hold on.

• 50:20Sarah Hagi?

  She said, "I'm going to jail no matter what. Why don't I just have fun?"

• 50:24Scaachi Koul?

  I understand that she did something wrong, but they gave her a life sentence for being cuckoo bananas, basically, in court?

• 50:31Sarah Hagi?

  Yes, yes.

• 50:33Scaachi Koul?

  She wasn't even, like, the mastermind behind this. She's just like a kooky old weirdo.

• 50:37Sarah Hagi?

  I guess it isn't her first offense, so maybe there's further things compounding it.

• 50:42Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I guess.

• 50:43Sarah Hagi?

  But yes, she could have not had life in prison is the point.

• 50:46Scaachi Koul?

  Do you know how many times I have yelled that somebody is committing war crimes against me? I say it a lot.

• 50:52Sarah Hagi?

  I didn't know that was actionable.

• 50:53Scaachi Koul?

  Well, don't say it in court.

• 50:55Sarah Hagi?

  Well, something to consider, truly. I'm in court a lot.

• 50:57Scaachi Koul?

  Don't you dare say that in court.

• 50:59Sarah Hagi?

  This is a kangaroo court.

• 51:01Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, exactly. Screw you.

• 51:04Sarah Hagi?

  Despite his convictions and the overwhelming evidence against him, William still insists he stole the money for the greater good. He claims he felt obligated to support charities like the North Texas Food Bank and the Alzheimer's Association. But investigators determined that out of the $25 million he stole, William only donated about $250,000 to charity. The court-appointed receiver from the beginning of our story, Court Thomas, is still working to track down the money. He was able to recoup some of the millions William spent on airtime by settling a lawsuit with the radio station. He also recovered some small amounts from nonprofits William

• 51:45Sarah Hagi?

  donated to, but of the nearly $25 million Doc stole, Court has only managed to return $6.6 million to investors. William was first eligible for parole in mid-2025 and was denied. Now, all the money Doctor can do is hope and pray, because the only way he's leaving prison is with a miracle.

• 52:14Sarah Hagi?

  You know, Sachi, this isn't our first religion-based scam, nor is it our first Ponzi scheme, but it is probably the more unique way these two have been put together. Like, I feel like he really stayed in a small zone, North Texas, and even though he was buying up a lot of property, he wasn't like a preacher with a Maserati and an expensive watch. It was kind of just a very small-time scam that resulted in $25 million being stolen.

• 52:47Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I find these scams especially evil and especially depressing. Like, how dare you combine the thing that people are most vulnerable about, which is their faith, and then your drive for money? It feels a little like he kind of got away with it, too. I know he didn't, but it feels like he did.

• 53:04Sarah Hagi?

  I do think there is also something so weird about him knowing how to prey on seniors, being a senior himself. He was an old ass guy, too, and he knew how, what they would fall for in a very specific way.

• 53:21Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, it's honestly worse that he was older in a way. Like, because if he was a young guy, you can kind of see how people get tripped up by that.

• 53:29Sarah Hagi?

  Yes, and like dehumanizing them and...

• 53:31Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. If he was a young guy, you can see how people would have been tricked by that. That's enticing in a certain way. It would also make a little more sense why he would do it. He'd have this dissociation with that group. But to scam your own peers, like to go after your own community for the thing that you already know is a vulnerability, is so monstrous.

• 53:50Sarah Hagi?

  I'm kind of surprised that he kept the radio thing going on as long as he did because you'd think by the point that he gets his audience and establishes a name for himself, he would find a way to do this without paying money.

• 54:04Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I mean, if this was a guy who was like good at investing in his personal brand organically, we wouldn't be here.

• 54:11Sarah Hagi?

  It was very clear he was taking advantage of a real zeitgeist-y moment for right-wing Christian radio to be very important to people.

• 54:22Scaachi Koul?

  I mean, these are places with really like well-established figures of authority, and that's what this guy was playing into.

• 54:28Sarah Hagi?

  Like Rush Limbaugh, Rest in Piss, he got his start in radio, you know?

• 54:34Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 54:34Sarah Hagi?

  And I'll look, he's dead. So do you really want to do that?

• 54:37Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, well, that's what happens. You go on the radio and then you die.

• 54:40Sarah Hagi?

  Yep. What do you feel the lesson learned here is?

• 54:45Scaachi Koul?

  I have always been very suspicious of anybody who's trying to merge financial gain and religion of any type. I think this is proof of that, that this is a space that is often taken advantage of. And you should be suspicious of someone who says, "I..." Am chosen in so many ways, not just by God, but by the NASDAQ, you should be suspicious.

• 55:10Sarah Hagi?

  I understand, to a point, seeing someone in your own community, white Christian, for them, like, someone who knows how to say the right, safe words that make people feel warm and good inside.

• 55:23Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 55:24Sarah Hagi?

  You know what? I really do think you should only invest money with someone who is so not like you, that they are just focused on their jobs and have no skin in the game, outside of their own reputation being ruined and being bad at their job, you know? Like, you don't need someone in that position to have the same beliefs as you, in my opinion.

• 55:46Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 55:46Sarah Hagi?

  It doesn't really matter. It shouldn't really be a deciding factor when it comes to something that is as tricky as money.

• 55:53Scaachi Koul?

  I would say you should only give money to someone you find boring. Anybody too interesting, or too compelled by being interesting, or desirous of being viewed as interesting, don't give them your money.

• 56:05Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, I think that's 100% it.

• 56:07Scaachi Koul?

  What do you think about our friend Deb getting a life sentence?

• 56:12Sarah Hagi?

  The thing about Deborah that I feel is, she is one of those wild, wild women that cannot be tamed, and is probably just intoxicating to be around. Like, that, he remembered her from his past and struck up an affair with her, and they became scamming lovers, and his wife probably had no idea any of this was happening, is so twisted. The hold you have to have on someone to be able to pull that off, and that she was also so good at doing the scam, like, as you say, it wasn't her first rodeo, but she was very, very skilled. And then she loses it in court.

• 56:49Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I mean, listen, if you're gonna go out, you may as well go out in the loudest way possible. As you know, I really respect that kind of ethos.

• 56:57Sarah Hagi?

  Yes, I agree.

• 56:59Scaachi Koul?

  They should have reduced her sentence just because she was so interesting.

• 57:02Sarah Hagi?

  I need to learn some of her tricks and use them for good, because she's on to something, and I don't know what it is, but I'm very curious.

• 57:09Scaachi Koul?

  I bet Deb is so mad that she wound up with some big old chungus like this guy. And now she's in jail for a life just because she wouldn't stop telling the judge to eat her butthole or whatever.

• 57:20Sarah Hagi?

  I think Deb probably could have picked someone better, like more of an equal. Clearly, she knew a lot more about what she was doing. You know what I mean?

• 57:28Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. She shouldn't have shared the scam. She should have done it by herself.

• 57:31Sarah Hagi?

  Or with someone who's just better.

• 57:33Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. The moral, as ever, is break up with him.

• 57:40Scaachi Koul?

  Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.

• 57:49Sarah Hagi?

  From Audible Originals, this is William Neil Gallagher, The False Prophet for Scamfluencers. I'm Sarah Haggy.

• 57:56Scaachi Koul?

  And I'm Sacha Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected]. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were The Texas Preacher's $24 Million Ponzi Scheme in Bloomberg Businessweek by Chris Pomorsky, the podcast The Perfect Scam: The Money Doctor, the Bloomberg original documentary The Texas Preacher Who Used God to Steal, and Money Doctor Neil Gallagher Gets a Bad Checkup in D Magazine by Jason Hyde.

• 58:24Sarah Hagi?

  Andrew Barbo wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sacha Cole and Sarah Haggy. Olivia Bryley is our story editor. Our senior producers are Sarah Enni and Ginny Bloom. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Fact checking by Kalina Newman. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Fries on Sync. The executive producer for Audible is Jenny Lauer-Beckman. The head of creative development at Audible is Kate Navin. The head of Audible Originals North America is Marshall Louie. The chief content officer is Rachel Giatza. Copyright 2026 by Audible Originals LLC. Sound recording copyright 2026 by Audible Originals LLC.

• 59:14Speaker 11

  Dr. Seuss's Cat in the Hat and Fish are back for a whole lot of wonderfully whimsical fun. What happens when you switch bodies with your best friend? Discover a caveman frozen in ice? Or make an alien so angry he threatens to destroy the planet? Find out in season two of the Cat in the Hat podcast. The Cat and Fish are traveling the world in the great catastrophic cacophony cruiser, meeting genies, clown professors, cave trolls, and extraordinary characters along the way. With clever wordplay, imaginative rhymes, original songs, and stories celebrating curiosity, empathy, and creative problem solving, every adventure brings something new to discover.

• 59:57Speaker 11

  It's a world of wonderful words, big imaginations, and plenty of heart for the whole family. Listen to the Cat in the Hat podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 20 episodes early and ad-free right now.