ENCORE: Dr. Oz: Supplement Spin Doctor | 137

Dr. Oz has been making headlines again – but not for a scam. Now that he’s been tapped to run the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, we’re revisiting how this former TV doctor survived scandal and shifted into politics. In the mid-90s, Dr. Mehmet Oz is a rock star surgeon with a reputation for performing on high-profile clients. He eventually scores his own television show, and soon he becomes daytime television royalty. Oprah even dubs him “America’s doctor.” But his drive for stardom has him hawking questionable products, mostly related to weight loss. When his medical reputation is up in the air, he does what past-their-prime reality stars do best: he pivots to politics. Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletter Listen to Scamfluencers on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/scamfluencers/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sarah Hagi?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:08Scaachi Koul?

  Sarah, one of our very own scammers has been making headlines recently, and not because of a scam, technically. It's Dr. Mehmet Oz.

• 0:17Sarah Hagi?

  Oh, my gosh. What could possibly be going on right now with him?

• 0:22Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, only good news, my friend. President-elect Donald Trump, who supported Dr. Oz's unsuccessful bid for a Senate seat in 2022, has picked him to be the administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. So, since Dr. Oz is back in the political game, I thought it was a good time to revisit our episode on him, where we tell the story of this overachieving child of immigrants who rose to prominence as a respected heart surgeon, and then got caught up in the allure of TV fame after appearing on Oprah. This scam has it all. Questionable supplement claims, shady conflicts of interest, and a seriously embarrassing session in front of the Senate. And there's truly no telling what the next chapter will hold.

• 1:05Scaachi Koul?

  So, enjoy this refresher and stay tuned.

• 1:16Scaachi Koul?

  Sarah, as you know, I have a lot of guilty pleasures. And today, I wanted to tell you about one of them, which is daytime TV.

• 1:25Sarah Hagi?

  Sachi, as someone who skipped an insane amount of school growing up, I'm right there with you. Like, all I did was watch daytime TV. That's how I learned what everything was.

• 1:36Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. And I love it, but the truth is, we don't normally think of daytime TV as having any impact on our political futures. Like, in what world do Maury Povich and his countless paternity tests really matter? That's the point, right? It doesn't matter.

• 1:51Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, I mean, I was a big Oprah head. I would watch her every single day when I got home from school. And I remember people being like, maybe Oprah should be president. Do you remember that?

• 2:02Scaachi Koul?

  I do. And it's funny that you mention Oprah, because this story I'm about to tell you has to do with Oprah's power to turn other people into superstars overnight, for better, and often, for worse.

• 2:18Scaachi Koul?

  It's April 2012. An audience is gathered in Studio 6A at New York's Rockefeller Center.

• 2:26Scaachi Koul?

  When the lights go up and the applause sign flashes, a tall, slim man bounds onstage. He's wearing a suit and has coiffed brown hair. It's Dr. Mehmet Oz, the host of CBS's daytime talk show called, duh, The Dr. Oz Show. And he's one of the biggest daytime TV stars in the world. He stares right into the camera, as if he's speaking directly to you.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  This little bean has scientists saying they've found the magic weight loss cure for every body type. It's green coffee beans.

• 2:57Scaachi Koul?

  Dr. Oz is at the top of his game. The show is in its third season, and it gets around 3 million viewers a day. He's just won back-to-back daytime Emmy Awards in the Outstanding Informative Talk Show category. And he's been called America's Doctor by none other than Oprah Winfrey. His show's massive popularity has been fueled by episodes promising a new miracle cure for whatever health issue you're most anxious about. Want to avoid heart attacks? Dr. Oz will tell you what to eat. Afraid of cancer? Dr. Oz has the solution. And he's really starting to hone in on one thing his audience can't seem to get enough of: weight loss. Like with these green coffee beans.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  When turned into a supplement, this miracle pill can burn fat fast for anyone who wants to lose weight. This is very exciting, and it's breaking news.

• 3:47Scaachi Koul?

  About 30% of the episodes on The Dr. Oz Show focus on losing weight. But this episode is different. Because this time, Oz's claims of a so-called "magic answer" will land him directly in the crosshairs of the US Senate. It's the beginning of the tide turning against Oz. And it'll force millions of faithful viewers to ask themselves, what exactly is the good doctor prescribing? And does it work?

• 4:19Speaker 03

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• 4:51Speaker 04

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• 5:24Scaachi Koul?

  From Wondery, I'm Sashi Cole.

• 5:26Sarah Hagi?

  And I'm Sarah Haggy.

• 5:27Scaachi Koul?

  And this is Scamfluencers.

• 5:37Scaachi Koul?

  Today, we're following the remarkable rise and spectacular downfall of one of the country's most famous television doctors. Dr. Oz's multi-decade career spans the most high stakes and competitive worlds: life or death surgery, cutthroat TV, and eventually, national politics. In a life built for public consumption, it's on the biggest and brightest stages that Dr. Oz will eventually crumble. I'm calling this one, Dr. Oz: The Supplement Spin Doctor.

• 6:09Scaachi Koul?

  Well, Sarah, we know by now that Dr. Oz has a, shall we say, complex relationship with medicine. And it all goes back to his family roots. His father, Mustafa, was also a doctor in Turkey. The elder Oz was a driven and ambitious man. He moved his family to Cleveland in the 1950s to be a medical resident. And that's where Mehmet Oz was born, in 1960. A year later, Mustafa trained in cardiothoracic surgery in Atlanta. He eventually moved the family to Delaware, where he became the chief of thoracic surgery at a hospital. He reached the peak of Western medicine. But when Oz spent childhood summers in Turkey, he witnessed a different approach to healthcare.

• 6:50Scaachi Koul?

  Here's what he says about it years later on the podcast On Being with Krista Tippett.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Take Turkey as an example. You would never leave a patient in the hospital there unless you had a relative with them. In the United States, we have visiting hours. No one can see the patient. We block them out.

• 7:06Sarah Hagi?

  You know, I do kind of understand what he's saying here. Like, the healthcare system, I feel like in the West, does not really prioritize morale and like having family visit.

• 7:18Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I mean, Western medicine is generally a lot colder. But at home, it's playing by the rules that counts. All through Oz's childhood, Mustafa demands excellence. If Oz scores 97% on an exam, his father doesn't say, "Good job." He asks, "Did anyone do better than you?" It's big immigrant parent energy. I remember it very well. But for Oz, it seems to work. He gets into Harvard, and then he earns both medical and business degrees from the University of Pennsylvania. By the time he's 26, he's a resident in cardiac surgery at New York's Presbyterian Hospital, run in collaboration with Columbia University. His career is on track. But his parents want him to be happy outside of work, too.

• 8:03Scaachi Koul?

  So one night in 1984, Mustafa and Oz's mom invite him to meet them for dinner. They're meeting another couple, renowned cardiothoracic surgeon Gerald Lamoll and his wife. Gerald's a bit of a medical rebel. He's credited as the first surgeon to play rock music in the operating room. Very cool. But the two couples aren't here to talk medicine. Oz is single, and Gerald's 21-year-old daughter Lisa is also single. And the two sets of parents are hoping that Oz and Lisa will hit it off. Lisa's petite, with long, dark hair and piercing blue eyes. She's an actress, and she actually played a recurring character on Dallas, one of the most successful shows of the 80s.

• 8:46Scaachi Koul?

  Lisa's parents don't tell her that this dinner is a setup. But when she arrives at the restaurant and Oz greets her, she can't take her eyes off of him. The two of them start dating, and just seven months later, Oz proposes. At this point, things really couldn't be going much better for Dr. Oz. But he doesn't just want to excel at medicine, he wants to change healthcare. And he's going to start with what he can control: his operating room.

• 9:14Scaachi Koul?

  It's 1995, and Oz is thriving. He wins a prestigious award for best research by a medical resident. And he gets a patent for a device that he creates that detects heart failure. But Oz wants to approach healthcare differently. Lisa's recently become a Reiki master. And her dad Gerald, along with his unconventional ideas about medicine, has become Oz's mentor. And since Oz is now a young, hot-shot surgeon at Columbia University, the higher-ups indulge in some of his alternative ideas about health. Then, one day, he meets Jerry Whitworth, a registered nurse. Jerry has blue eyes and brown hair, and he describes himself as a free spirit.

• 9:55Scaachi Koul?

  He's also interested in combining traditional and alternative medicine. Both men believe that mind-body techniques and things like energy healing, hypnosis, and massages can help people before, during, and after heart surgery. Together, they create the Cardiac Complimentary Care Center to research the use of these approaches with patients at Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center. And this includes bringing 52-year-old Julie Moth's into the operating room.

• 10:23Scaachi Koul?

  Now Julie is an energy healer who manages the vibes. Here's how she talked about her work at the hospital in an interview with CNN at the time. They asked him to experience the vibrational energy of the heart, of the new heart, and experience the vibrational energy of the body and slowly bring the two together.

• 10:40Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, if I'm getting heart surgery, the last person I want is someone who's like, "Let's think about the vibes."

• 10:48Scaachi Koul?

  Vibes are important for medicine.

• 10:49Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, I mean, this Julie woman does not sound like someone I want around me at any point in my life.

• 10:56Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, probably not. Well, Oz is able to exert influence on the powers that be at his hospital. But then, in the fall of 1996, he gets unexpected exposure to a whole new audience. Like a jewel sparkling in the October night, Yankee Stadium is packed to the gills. In October, the Yankees make it to the World Series. It's their first shot at the championship in 19 years. But their manager, Joe Torre, is distracted. His brother Frank is in the hospital. It doesn't look good. Frank's already had three heart attacks, and now he needs a heart transplant. And then, just as the Yankees are about to play the first game in the series, some good news. They found a donor for Frank.

• 11:39Scaachi Koul?

  And one of the surgeons performing the transplant is Dr. Mehmet Oz. The surgery goes off without a hitch. Frank is healing, Joe is relieved, and Dr. Oz gets to be the knight in shining armor as the Yankees go on to win the World Series. The entire city explodes in celebration.

• 11:57Sarah Hagi?

  This is crazy because for everything I know about Dr. Oz and how much I've been exposed to him throughout my life watching TV, I didn't actually know he was a skilled surgeon that could perform a heart transplant.

• 12:10Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 12:10Sarah Hagi?

  I really just thought he was, oh, like, he's just a normal medical doctor. But he is actually quite skilled.

• 12:16Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, he's a real-ass doctor. Dr. Oz is thrust into the spotlight. People act like he won the World Series. And something in him switches. His colleague later says that this moment was Oz's first big splash of publicity, and he loved it. By this point, he performs about 250 operations a year. He's also contributed to eight books and written more than 100 medical papers since he began as a resident. And in 1999, he also publishes Healing From the Heart. It's a book about his radical approach to Western medicine. In it, he talks a lot about integrative medicine, which includes taking supplements and exercising daily to prevent illness.

• 12:58Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, so this is when it really begins.

• 13:02Scaachi Koul?

  I mean, it's good advice. You should work out to prevent illness.

• 13:05Sarah Hagi?

  But that's how they get you. It starts off with normal things. You go, yeah, I guess I should be exercising. Maybe I should be taking these vitamins.

• 13:14Scaachi Koul?

  Well, Oz is appearing on news segments and seeking out publicity, hyping up his work at the cardiac complementary care center. But his co-founder, Jerry, wants to pump the brakes on all the media attention until they gather more evidence to support their alternative approach. By 2000, Jerry's had enough, and he pulls the plug on the center. But Oz trucks along, creating his own newer thing, the Cardiovascular Institute and Integrative Medicine Program. It's basically the same idea, but now it's tied solely to the Dr. Oz name. And he doesn't stop there. Oz wants to build a legacy outside of the operating room, outside of the hospital, outside of the world of medicine entirely. Dr.

• 13:57Scaachi Koul?

  Oz wants to be famous. Three years later, Lisa's closing in on a deal that will change their lives forever. Her friend just landed a new gig at Discovery Channel, so Lisa makes a pitch. What if Dr. Oz, one of America's most acclaimed surgeons, brought his expertise and his message to the masses with a TV show?

• 14:19Sarah Hagi?

  Great idea.

• 14:20Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 14:21Sarah Hagi?

  It's not right, but it's good TV.

• 14:24Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, here we fucking go. Lisa understands the power of the screen and what it can do for the Dr. Oz brand. Her producer friend is in, and they develop a new show called Second Opinion with Dr. Oz. World-renowned heart surgeon Dr. Mehmet Oz takes on the most critical Health concerns of our times. Discover the future of medicine from those who are making it and become a world expert on your own body.

• 14:51Scaachi Koul?

  I wonder what the tone of this show is because this was at the point when Discovery Channel wasn't as we know it now. Yeah. So I do wonder if this is like, you know, this first kind of show he had, if it was perhaps a little less sensational or if it wasn't as cuckoo. Yeah, it was a little more grown up for sure. But Second Opinion only gets one season. That said, it kickstarts a new era of Dr. Oz's life and career. He gets comfortable on camera and develops an easygoing yet authoritative style. More importantly, he builds a relationship with one of his first guests, a daytime TV pioneer who came on to talk about weight loss, none other than Oprah Winfrey.

• 15:38Scaachi Koul?

  About a year later, Oz is in a giant building in downtown Chicago. The awning outside reads "The Oprah Winfrey Show." In 2004, this is hollowed ground. The Oprah Show has been running for nearly 20 years and averages 9 million viewers a day. It's easily the number one daytime show of its time. After Oprah appeared on Second Opinion, her producers called Oz to ask him to come on to her show, and he shows up wearing $14 powder blue scrubs and purple latex gloves, looking like he just got out of the operating room. And Sarah, he's a hit. He quickly lands himself a regular guest spot, and his segments are all over the map. Like, here he is on Oprah talking about belly fat.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  We're gonna teach a little bit of vocabulary today. This is a critical part of it, called the omentum. It sounds like momentum, but without the M. Where is it? Where is it in your body? It's actually hooked up to your stomach, but I did better. I brought you some. You brought?

• 16:36Scaachi Koul?

  And, of course, my personal favorite, anal fissures.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be the anus. You can put that down. Good. Because you gotta be the poop. Okay. All right? Put your fingers in there. Now, you open up in here. Poop, poop, poop.

• 16:50Sarah Hagi?

  This is pretty funny and very typically Oprah. Like, we're talking about a woman who put a bunch of fat, representing the weight she lost, on a wagon and pulled it out in front of her audience. So, none of this surprises me. And also, it is really crazy that this guy is obviously very intelligent and very skilled, like, he's a heart surgeon. But that doesn't mean he has, like, a special expertise and like, all that kind of stuff. Like, he knows as much as just about any doctor then, right?

• 17:20Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I wouldn't say he's necessarily an expert on pooping, but he is the man we're listening to about these topics. But let's fast forward a few years to 2009. After 88 appearances on "The Oprah Show," Oprah and her production company offer Oz his own show, "The Dr. Oz Show." And it's the most successful daytime TV launch in more than a decade. Oz keeps getting bigger. He's named one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People of the Year. And later, financial documents will show that he's making as much as $10 million a year from the show. And don't forget, Dr. Oz is still employed by Presbyterian Hospital as a surgeon.

• 18:02Scaachi Koul?

  His success and pop culture relevance far surpass anything his dad could have envisioned, but his level of ambition has no ceiling. And as a star rises, that ambition soon turns to greed. His methods and beliefs will go from unusual to deeply questionable.

• 18:23Scaachi Koul?

  Dr. Seuss's Cat in the Hat and Fish are back for a whole lot of wonderfully whimsical fun. What happens when you switch bodies with your best friend? Discover a caveman frozen in ice? Or make an alien so angry, he threatens to destroy the planet? Find out in season two of the Cat in the Hat podcast. The Cat and Fish are traveling the world in the great catastrophe. ...Cocophony Cruiser, meeting genies, clown professors, cave trolls and extraordinary characters along the way. With clever wordplay, imaginative rhymes, original songs and stories celebrating curiosity, empathy and creative problem solving, every adventure brings something

• 19:04Scaachi Koul?

  new to discover. It's a world of wonderful words, big imaginations and plenty of heart for the whole family. Listen to the Cat in the Hat podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 20 episodes early and ad-free right now.

• 19:23Scaachi Koul?

  Alice, have you ever wondered why the Mini is so small? The Skir or the Magnum? Well, I meant the iconic British car, because in 1956, Britain's oil supply was suddenly cut off. Petrol rationing was brought in and the car industry was scrambling around for a vehicle that hardly used any fuel. Enter the Mini. Interesting, but actually not technically British scandal series material. Well, the reason they had to save petrol is because the Prime Minister started a war and lied about why. Okay, scandal siren going off. I'm Matt Ford. And I'm Alice Levine. And our latest British scandal series involves a secret meeting in a French villa, a Prime Minister running on amphetamines. An Egyptian president that everyone fancied, the end of the British Empire and

• 20:08Scaachi Koul?

  at the heart of it, a canal. This is the story of the Suez Plot. Follow British Scandal wherever you get your podcasts or listen early and ad-free on Audible.

• 20:30Scaachi Koul?

  It's June 2011, more than a year after the Dr. Oz show debuted. Oz and Lisa sit amongst the beautiful people inside the Las Vegas Hilton for the 38th Annual Daytime Emmy Awards. They smile as Anderson Cooper announces the award for Outstanding Talk Show Host. He says that there's a tie: Regis Philbin and Kelly Ripa for Live with Regis and Kelly and Dr. Oz. Here he is in his acceptance speech.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Humans historically have always had healers in their communities. People they trusted, people who had insight. I think much of America has lost that connection. And what we do this show about is to get folks to realize that all they have to do is love themselves as much as we love them.

• 21:11Scaachi Koul?

  Later in the ceremony, Oprah is honored after wrapping up the 25-year run of her show. And then, The Dr. Oz Show wins another award for Outstanding Informative Talk Show. It's an appropriate handoff, as The Oz Show is about to move into Oprah's former time slot across much of America. The torch is officially passed. But the pace of making The Dr. Oz Show is relentless. They tape more than 160 episodes a year. And the focus starts to zero in on promoting what some might call dubious health suggestions. Some episodes are about Oz's specialty, the heart. But many others focus on weight loss, with titles like "Dr. Oz's Three-Day Detox", "Oz-approved Seven-Day Crash Diet",

• 21:56Scaachi Koul?

  and "Eat Yourself Skinny". As a doctor, Oz has a medical and ethical mandate to tell the truth. But as a TV star, it's about keeping viewers hooked. And over the course of the show, he finds that the best way to do that is to hit at people's fears and insecurities about their bodies. One topic he touches on almost as often as weight loss is cancer. In an interview with The New Yorker, Oz called cancer, quote, "Our Angelina Jolie. We could sell that show every day." There are also some really dicey episodes, like ones about communicating with dead relatives and gay-to-straight conversion therapy. And Oz once claimed on air that apple juice sold in the US contained arsenic.

• 22:40Sarah Hagi?

  Oh my god. That's like an old wives' tale we heard in junior high. Also, to call cancer "Your Angelina Jolie", Yeah. is so deeply twisted. That's insane. He's like, you know what? Love that cancer. It sells the magazines.

• 22:58Scaachi Koul?

  Well, Oz is torn between his ethical responsibilities and the temptations of having such a humongous platform. If he says something like this about raspberry ketones on his show...

• 23:11Scaachi Koul?

  In a bottle to burn your fat. Stores can't keep them on the shelves. This is known as the Oz Effect. And that has some people seeing Oz not just as a name, but as an opportunity.

• 23:25Scaachi Koul?

  It's April 2012, and Lindsay Duncan is feverishly typing out an email to his team. Lindsay's the founder and CEO of the dietary supplement company Pure Health. He trades in the world of naturopathy and calls himself a celebrity nutritionist. Lindsay has thin lips, brown eyes, and a gleaming white smile. And right now, his eyes are locked on the computer screen. A producer for the Dr. Oz Show has just emailed him regarding the opportunity of a lifetime. Based on what we know from court documents and reporting from The Washington Post, the producer asks if Lindsay has studied green coffee bean extract as a weight loss supplement. And if so, would he be able to talk about how it works? His team immediately says yes.

• 24:08Scaachi Koul?

  Lindsay would be happy to appear on the show to talk all about it. But the truth is, Lindsay has never heard of green coffee beans or what its extract could do. What he does know is the power of the Oz Effect. So hours after agreeing to go on as an expert on green coffee bean extract, Lindsay starts doing his homework on what it even is. Then he places an order for the raw materials to make it. And then, days later, he tells Oz's audience all about how magic this bean really is.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Participants who took green coffee bean extract lost a total of 17 pounds each. The most interesting part of this clinical trial that was done on humans, not rats or monkeys, is that there were absolutely zero side effects.

• 24:56Sarah Hagi?

  If this was a thing that were true, the whole world would be completely and fundamentally changed.

• 25:02Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, it's like people who think that silver will cure cancer. As if the healthcare industry wouldn't monetize that immediately.

• 25:08Sarah Hagi?

  No, exactly. It's like one of those things that's like on an infomercial that's playing at 3 a.m., you know?

• 25:14Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. Well, during his appearance, Lindsay also mentions a company he trusts as a source for the green coffee bean extract, Pure Health. But he never mentions that it's his company to anyone at the doctor's office. Everything Lindsay says on the show is geared towards selling his supplements. He and his staff direct Oz's team to purehealth100.com as the place viewers can go to buy green coffee bean extract. It's a site that they literally just created in time for Lindsay's appearance on the show. Dr. Oz helps Lindsay shield the stuff, no questions asked.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  It comes from the fruit of the coffee plant. And the reason it's different from regular old coffee beans, it hasn't been roasted. It holds on to this element that seems to help people lose weight.

• 26:00Scaachi Koul?

  In the three years after Lindsay's appearance, Pure Health sells $50 million worth of green coffee bean extract products. But federal regulators and US senators have questions about the show's pattern of dubious claims, and soon, they will demand answers. It's June 2014, and Dr. Oz is in Washington DC, sitting at a heavy oak table in front of a Senate Subcommittee. His usual TV polish is gone. His hair falls across his forehead, messier than the slicked-back look he usually sports on air. He's pale, there are bags under his eyes. Dr. Oz looks off.

• 26:42Scaachi Koul?

  This is his most important public appearance, probably ever. He's testifying in front of the Senate Subcommittee on Consumer Protection. And though this is just a hearing, these senators appear ready to put Dr. Oz on trial. Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill takes the lead. She's dressed in a blue and white power suit, thick tortoiseshell glasses, and has a perfectly trimmed shock of blonde hair. This lady is not messing around. She is about to snatch Dr. Oz's soul out of his body by reading his own words back to him. She reads aloud from transcripts of his show, where he makes claims about cures for weight loss. Senator McCaskill and the rest of the Subcommittee grill Dr. Oz on the long list of, quote, "cures," he's touted.

• 27:27Scaachi Koul?

  Everything from diet pills to supplements, including the green coffee bean extract and raspberry ketones. Both lack any medical evidence that they actually work. I don't get why you need to say this stuff, because you know it's not true. So why? When you have this amazing megaphone and this amazing ability to communicate, why would you cheapen your show? Dr. Oz has never really been in front of any kind of critical audience, and as he tries to defend himself, it shows.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Among the natural products that are out there, this is a product that has several clinical trials. There was one large one, a very good quality one, that was done the year that we talked about this in 2012.

• 28:09Scaachi Koul?

  I want him to know about that clinical trial, because the only one I know was 16 people in India that was paid for by the company that was producing it. And it actually gets worse. Dr. Oz decides now is the time to be honest, maybe too honest.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  If I can just get across the big message that I actually do personally believe in the items that I talk about in the show. I passionately study them. I recognize that oftentimes they don't have the scientific muster to present as fact.

• 28:36Sarah Hagi?

  I mean, in any just world, this guy would not have a career as a daytime talk show host. He's a doctor. People are supposed to trust him.

• 28:47Scaachi Koul?

  I know. It's so bad. And again, Sarah, this is a subcommittee hearing, so no one is leaving here with a fine or jail time, but Oz is under oath, and Senator McCaskill is getting this all on the record. She's calling Oz a snake oil salesman in front of all of America, and the blows keep coming. Just five months after the Senate hearing, the British Medical Journal publishes a study about his show. They found that at least half of all of Dr. Oz's claims either can't be verified by medical research, or they've been straight up debunked. Then, in January 2015, almost three years after Lindsay Duncan's

• 29:27Scaachi Koul?

  appearance on Oz's show, the FTC sues Lindsay. They claim that he's no naturopath. Instead, he's just a marketer with distance learning degrees from a now-defunct natural health college. They call Lindsay deceptive, and they seek to ban him from making future false health claims. Lindsay quickly settles and agrees to repay customers $9 million.

• 29:50Sarah Hagi?

  Wow, that is such a burn. You're a marketer with a distance learning degree. You're nothing.

• 29:57Scaachi Koul?

  It's so mean. And the FTC also reaches a $3.5 million settlement with the company that did the so-called diet studies that Lindsay cited on the show. The researchers paid to write the studies admitted that they couldn't prove their findings. And federal regulators discovered that the data used in the studies, things like the participants' weight, had been altered. The Dr. Oz show quietly removes any traces of affiliation with green coffee bean extract on its website, but they don't issue an apology. Instead, they release a retraction saying that this, quote, "sometimes happens in scientific research." The story of the people and the products that Dr. Oz sells on his shows simply do

• 30:39Scaachi Koul?

  not match reality, and the walls are starting to close in on him.

• 30:46Scaachi Koul?

  Soon, the unrest about Dr. Oz reaches his professional home of Columbia University in New York. It's where he got his start as a cardiac surgeon, plus a faculty appointment with the medical school, and a senior administrative position in the Department of Surgery. In April 2015, a few months after the FTC comes down on Lindsay Duncan, a group of doctors across the US release an open letter calling on Columbia to sever its ties with Dr. Oz. They say his work is full of lies and misinformation. Oz is pissed. He strikes back on his TV show.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Doctors should never fight their battles or each other in public, but now I believe I must.

• 31:26Scaachi Koul?

  He launches into a 30-minute screed, naming and personally questioning each of the doctors who called him out. Sarah, do you want to read what he says to end the segment?

• 31:35Sarah Hagi?

  Sure. He says, "These 10 doctors are trying to silence me. I vow to you right here, right now, we will not be silenced." Oh, my God. They're trying to silence you? What, there's like some conspiracy where they don't want people to know good things? Like, what it's implying is so fundamentally crazy.

• 31:58Scaachi Koul?

  Well, like all people who are silenced, Oz gets to publish a 1,300-word rebuttal in Time Magazine. And also, Matt Lauer, who has never done anything wrong, interviews Oz on The Today Show specifically about firing back at his critics.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  You are a medical doctor. Have you upheld that trust over the years on your program? Without question I have, and I'm very proud of what we've done on this show.

• 32:21Scaachi Koul?

  Even with all of this media support for his counterattack, Oz's empire is on shaky ground. This 20-year grift has been very profitable for him. But now, he needs to take refuge where all disgraced TV figures go: electoral politics.

• 32:42Scaachi Koul?

  In January 1995, 18-year-old Krista Pike and two friends lured a classmate, 19-year-old Colleen Slemmer, to an abandoned steam plant and killed her. At just 20 years old, Pike was sentenced to death. 30 years later, on September 30, 2026, the state of Tennessee tried to execute her and failed. I'm Candace DeLong, former FBI profiler and host of the podcast Killer Psyche, where we go inside the minds behind the most shocking crimes. In our latest episode, we take you inside the case of Krista Pike. The brutal crime, the childhood of abuse, three decades of appeals,

• 33:24Scaachi Koul?

  and the night an execution went terribly wrong. Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Killer Psyche one week early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 33:50Scaachi Koul?

  In 2016, the US is in the throes of Trump mania. One of the big talking points of the election is whether Trump, at 70 years old, is physically fit to serve as president. Trump understands the power of TV like few others in American history. And he figures, what better way to prove his fitness than by getting a clean bill of health from America's doctor? So he appears on the Dr. Oz show.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  If your health is as strong as it seems from your review of systems, why not share your medical records? Why not?

• 34:19Scaachi Koul?

  Well, I have really no problem in doing it. I have it right here. I mean, should I do it? I don't care.

• 34:26Scaachi Koul?

  Trump hands Dr. Oz two sheets of paper, which he says are from his doctor. Dr. Oz reviews them and declares him fit to run and serve as president.

• 34:36Sarah Hagi?

  Well, I mean, if Dr. Oz is saying so, he looks at the papers and he was like, yeah, I think this guy should be president. He's fit to run for president.

• 34:45Scaachi Koul?

  Sure, just two men that I trust, for sure. But you know what? If you think about it, Oz and Trump are a natural fit. They're both celebrities who love the limelight. They have a tenuous relationship at best with the truth. And now they have a common enemy, the so-called establishment. The establishment ridicules what they have to say, but both Oz and Trump say they represent the common man and that no idea, political or medical, is too out there. As you know, Trump goes on to win. But a couple of years into his presidency, in July of 2018, Oz reaches a $5.4 million settlement in a class action lawsuit over false advertising. The suit accuses him of exaggerating

• 35:29Scaachi Koul?

  the benefits of weight loss supplements. Oz doesn't admit fault, but he promises not to re-air three episodes of his show that promote the dubious products. And then he catches a break. Around this time, Trump creates a sports, fitness, and nutrition council and gives Oz a spot. The relationship with Trump and his voters seems fruitful. And Oz must think, if a loudmouth former TV host with no political experience can get to the top, then why can't he?

• 35:58Scaachi Koul?

  It's March 2020. COVID-19 is spreading. Dr. Oz feels like a man meeting the moment. He starts focusing a lot of energy on one potential treatment, hydroxychloroquine. It's a medication commonly used to treat lupus. But on March 28th, the FDA issues an emergency order to use it on some patients hospitalized with COVID. About a week later, Oz is making the rounds on TV touting the drug. Like this spot on a San Diego CBS affiliate.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Less fever, less cough, and less pneumonia problems. And most doctors in the world, this is their number one choice of products you recommend.

• 36:35Scaachi Koul?

  Trump says hydroxychloroquine works for him, and that endorsement puts the Oz effect on steroids. The drug sells out everywhere. The demand is so strong, lupus patients are having a tough time filling their prescriptions. Then, in April, studies show that using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID could be causing more harm than good. The FDA says it can lead to severe cardiac events. After the study drops, Oz goes on Fox News to say, quote, "We don't know if hydroxychloroquine actually works." But he never fully retracts his original recommendation. And here's the kicker. Two years later, it's revealed that Oz owns more than $600,000 in stocks of pharmaceutical

• 37:18Scaachi Koul?

  companies that make and distribute hydroxychloroquine. It's something he never disclosed in any on-air appearances. But by November 2021, things are moving fast for Oz. His third act in American life is about to begin, because this is when he announces he's running for Senate. Sarah, can you read a bit from his Washington Examiner op-ed?

• 37:40Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, he says, "During the pandemic, I learned that when you mix politics and medicine, you get politics instead of solutions. That's why I'm running for the US Senate, to help fix the problems and to help us heal." I mean, this is obviously such bullshit, because it's, the statement doesn't really make any sense. I just don't understand what his expertise is if you're supposed to be mixing politics and medicine.

• 38:04Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I mean, it's all over the place. But the other thing to know is that he's running for Senate in Pennsylvania, even though court records show that he's lived in New Jersey for most of his adult life. His homes, jobs, and offices have always been based in New York and New Insider reports that Dr. Oz began absentee voting in Pennsylvania elections in 2021 by registering with his in-laws' address. Weeks after announcing his run, Dr. Oz and Lisa buy a $3 million home in Pennsylvania's Montgomery County. But a national TV show turns out to be very different from a national campaign. Running for public office usually means releasing a lot of information about your

• 38:46Scaachi Koul?

  financial life, and that will forever change how Americans see Dr. Oz. Dr. Oz files the paperwork to run for public office in mid-2022, and the press descends, analyzing the extent of his empire. A Philadelphia Inquirer investigation reveals Oz's net worth is somewhere between $100 and $400 million. And when reporters dig into the financial statements, they find a lot of uncomfortable ties to companies that have appeared on the Dr. Oz show. For years, Oz promoted a probiotic made by a company called Pantherix. The Daily Beast reports that while promoting its products, Oz owned a stake in the company, and he served on its board for years and was paid as a consultant.

• 39:31Scaachi Koul?

  Then Politico discovers that Oz had a lucrative relationship with Usana Health Sciences, a multi-level marketing company that makes supplements, skincare, and other wellness products. Oz was paid upwards of $50 million to feature their products on air and on his show's website, and he gave speeches and presentations on behalf of the company. The ratings for the show begin plummeting, and after 13 seasons, Oz has to shut his show down because he's running for Senate. But he has his work cut out for him, running against the popular, experienced, and charmingly unpolished Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman. Though Oz may be unflappable in the operating room or his own soundstage, he suffers major

• 40:16Scaachi Koul?

  stumbles on the national political stage. Including in trying to act like he hasn't been a multimillionaire for more than half of his life. So Sarah, it's time we talked about the crudite video.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Thought I was doing grocery shopping. I'm at Wegner's and my wife wants some vegetables for crudite, right? So here's a broccoli. That's two bucks. About a ton of broccoli there. There's some asparagus. That's $4. And she loves salsa. Yeah, salsa there. $6? Must be a shortage of salsa.

• 40:48Sarah Hagi?

  What is he? He's just going to like the produce section and just picking stuff out? And what's the point he's trying to make? That things are expensive?

• 40:55Scaachi Koul?

  Yes.

• 40:55Sarah Hagi?

  That regular people can't make crudites anymore?

• 40:57Scaachi Koul?

  He is blaming Joe Biden for the cost of organic asparagus for his crudite platter.

• 41:03Sarah Hagi?

  A crudite platter is just vegetables and like a dip, right?

• 41:07Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, yeah, correct. It's a vegetable tray. And he's also talking about being at a place called Wegner's because he's confusing two American grocery chain names and fuse them into one. Like the place he's referring to does not exist.

• 41:20Sarah Hagi?

  I do love this display of how out of touch someone can be, you know?

• 41:25Scaachi Koul?

  Well, somehow it gets worse. A few months before the Senate race, John Fetterman has a life-threatening stroke. And Oz, who is somehow still a licensed doctor, could use this as a moment to show some empathy and expertise. But instead, his spokesperson tells the media, quote, "If John Fetterman had ever eaten a vegetable in his life, then maybe he wouldn't have had a major stroke and wouldn't be in a position of having to lie about it constantly." Even though it's just an Oz spokesperson, Oz never condemns the remark. He just says, quote, "The campaign has been saying a lot of things." Oz's political career was dead before it ever really began. Oprah, his biggest backer

• 42:05Scaachi Koul?

  for years, throws her support behind Fetterman, who ultimately beats Oz by five points. Almost every major link he's made in his 40-year career is gone. His show, his reputation, his positions at Columbia. Even Trump is pissed that Oz lost and reportedly blames his wife Melania for suggesting that he Back him. Dr. Oz, a generationally gifted heart surgeon, created an empire. But underneath it all, he took the very trust he gained with viewers and turned it into a grift. He did it with pills, unproven diet plans, magazine covers, primetime TV spots, and eventually, a failed attempt to turn it all into votes. So has he answered his father's question?

• 42:49Scaachi Koul?

  Did anyone do better than you, Oz?

• 42:53Scaachi Koul?

  Sarah, has this story made you decide to give up on the medical profession entirely? Like, can we trust no one, not even a doctor? Not even a heart surgeon?

• 43:05Sarah Hagi?

  I mean, if anything, this just shows that like, you can be the best in your field of something that is so hard to do and still be totally blinded by the idea of being a little bit famous.

• 43:20Scaachi Koul?

  Do you think there's a version of the world where Dr. Oz just stays in his lane and he just becomes a really famous heart surgeon?

• 43:25Sarah Hagi?

  No, I don't think so. I mean, like, I think he got a taste for fame. And also, you know, it's pretty rare to have a doctor be so good at being this eloquent. And he does have a gift for being able to speak publicly. And I think he got high off that feeling.

• 43:43Scaachi Koul?

  I think it's an interesting reminder that doctors are just people and people have terrible motivations.

• 43:50Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, doctors are just people and they can be easily swayed by fame. But also, they do take an oath for this to be a very altruistic profession. Not saying that stops people from doing bad things, but it's like, he did go against everything there is to being a doctor after, you know, performing this miracle heart surgery. I think it's easy to believe you're the smartest guy that will ever exist when you can replace someone's heart with a different one and have them live.

• 44:19Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, yeah. Listen, if I could do that, I would start believing my own hype as well.

• 44:23Sarah Hagi?

  Like, there are very few things I could do and they give me an overinflated ego in a lot of ways. So I couldn't imagine being able to do this and not going a little bit crazy.

• 44:32Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, I think Dr. Oz thought he was the American dream. I mean, he's the child of immigrants. You know, he works his way up. I'm sure he doesn't view himself as a nepo baby, despite the many connections he had in the medical space. And- That he was gonna make it and become president.

• 44:47Sarah Hagi?

  A hundred percent this guy would have run for president.

• 44:50Scaachi Koul?

  Well, Sarah, did you learn anything today?

• 44:53Sarah Hagi?

  You know what? I did learn something today. I really thought Dr. Oz was just a general practitioner. I didn't know he was so skilled, and I think he kind of erased that from his own history by being crazy. So my whole thing is, if you're super accomplished at something, just stop there. You don't need a new thing. You don't need to add an extra layer to something that you're already good at.

• 45:14Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. Today's lesson is if you're good at something, just do that. Don't do new things. You don't need to be good at several things. Look at us. We're not good at anything. And here we are hosting this podcast that you are listening to.

• 45:27Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, imagine we tried doing more.

• 45:29Scaachi Koul?

  We're barely keeping this together.

• 45:37Scaachi Koul?

  Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.

• 45:47Scaachi Koul?

  This is Dr. Oz, the Supplement Spin Doctor. I'm Sachi Cole.

• 45:52Sarah Hagi?

  And I'm Sarah Haggie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected]. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were The Making of Dr. Oz by Julie Bellus for Vox, The Operator by Michael Specter for The New Yorker, The Experiments of Dr. Oz by Chip Brown for The New York Times, and How a Fake Doctor Made Millions from The Oz Effect and a Bogus Weight Loss Supplement by Abby Phillip for The Washington Post.

• 46:23Scaachi Koul?

  Adrienne Chung wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggie. Our senior producer is Jen Swan. Our producer is John Reed. Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Peery. Our story editor and producer is Sarah Enni. Our story editor is Eric Thurm. Sound design is by James Morgan. Fact checking by Will Tavlin. Our music supervisor is Scoff Velazquez for Freeze on Sync. Our senior managing producer is Ryan Lor. Our managing producer is Matt Gant. Our coordinating producer is Desi Blaylock. Kate Young and Olivia Richard are our series producers. Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Our senior producer is Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Janine Cornelio, Stephanie Jens, Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marshall Louie for Wondery.

• 47:18Scaachi Koul?

  You stepped out for your morning jog. Except it's not your usual morning jog. You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible. Thirty chapters later, you've accidentally run a half marathon. You've lost track of how far you've run, somewhere just past the city limits. You can't stop. You have to find out what happens next. Then it's over. The universe seems bigger. You feel different. You feel like you have no idea where you are. Audible, stories that speak to you.