Apollo Nida: It’s Too Late to Apollo-gize | 141

When Apollo Nida joined the cast of The Real Housewives of Atlanta in 2009, he’d recently been released from prison and was expecting a child with his superstar lawyer wife, Phaedra Parks. Apollo had every reason to stay on the straight-and-narrow, but he immediately went back to scamming. His identity theft ring, feuds with castmates, and eventually threatening behavior to Phaedra herself add up to a twisted tale that’s scandalous even by Housewife standards. Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletter Listen to Scamfluencers on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/scamfluencers/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  Sachi, we often cover stories where these scammers have a big TV presence. Do you ever wonder how they're able to keep up being on reality TV and scamming at the same time? Because I do. Yeah, who has the time? But also, they are public figures. Like, aren't they worried about somebody looking into them? Everything they do can be considered evidence. Yes, it's all public record. Well, today, we're covering a house husband, that's the husband of a Real Housewife, who had so many chances to stop scamming, but kept going for years, even as the cameras continued rolling.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  It's the fall of 2013, and Special Agent Alexandra Herrera is standing outside an interrogation room in Atlanta. He works for the Secret Service in the Counterfeit Division, and he's about to come face to face with the woman he's been desperately trying to track down. In early 2012, a fraud investigator at JP Morgan Chase flagged a mysterious woman for possible bank fraud. They had surveillance footage of this woman opening and accessing multiple accounts in Atlanta and Orlando, all while using stolen identities and fake IDs. They were able to identify her as a middle-aged black woman, but they didn't know her real name, so they brought in Alexandra to help.

• 1:36Speaker 00

  Alexandra went to one of the addresses the woman used on the fraudulent accounts. But it wasn't actually a house. It was a UPS store. So Alexandra and another agent staked it out. When the suspect came to pick up a package, they followed her to a grocery store where she bought food with an EBT card. Alexandra was able to find out the name on that card: Gaila St. Julien.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  Alexandra kept digging and discovered that Gaila has been involved in a bunch of complicated fraud schemes over the years. And she's actually been convicted of fraud and identity theft before. Now Alexandra is finally face to face with Gaila. She's in her early 40s with long brown hair and light eyes. The fraud investigator described her as having a, quote, "distinctive figure." I have a picture of Gaila. Do you think that description does her justice?

• 2:30Scaachi Koul?

  I guess that's because you can't write in an official report that this woman is a brick house. She has one of the most formidable racks I've ever seen in my life. I'm jealous. And Sarah, as you know, I too have a formidable rack. But this is, this is beyond.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, she's hot. She's a hot woman.

• 2:49Scaachi Koul?

  She's so hot.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  With the serious charges she's facing, Alexandra probably assumes Gaila will be hard to crack. But instead, she surprises him. She waves her rights and comes clean almost immediately. Sure, she was involved, but she says she wasn't working alone. In fact, she claims the real culprit is her partner. He's the one who orchestrated the whole thing. And his name is Apollo Nida. He is best recognized as a husband of Phaedra Parks from The Real Housewives of Atlanta. That franchise is known for glamorous women, tremendous wealth, and of course, a whole lot of drama. It must have come as a surprise to Alexandra because Phaedra and Apollo appear to be

• 3:34Speaker 00

  one of Atlanta's most successful it couples. But it seems like they were living a very different life off camera. Alexandra and other federal agents are about to dive into a world even more complex and mystifying than white collar crime, The Housewives Universe.

• 3:56Speaker 02

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• 4:58Speaker 00

  From Wondery, I'm Sarah Haggie. And I'm Sachi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  Apollo Nida joined the cast of The Real Housewives of Atlanta in its third season, and he and his wife, Phaedra, made an instant impression. Apollo's honesty about his checkered past endeared him to viewers who found him refreshing and relatable. But the glare of the Bravo spotlight and the pressure to keep up with their fancy-new castmates pulls Apollo back to his criminal ways. He's dead set on maintaining their luxe lifestyle through any means necessary. This is Apollo Nida: It's Too Late to Apologize.

• 5:49Speaker 00

  Before we dive directly into the criminal side of the Bravo sphere, let's go back a couple of decades to Atlanta in the late 80s. Apollo is around nine years old and is at home when he sees his mom being pulled out of their bathroom by two of her friends. She's not breathing because she just OD'd. Thankfully, she survives the overdose. But this is just one of the many traumatic incidents Apollo witnesses at a young age. He saw his mom do drugs, and when he was about five, his mom's boyfriend beat her up in a hotel room right in front of him. On top of that, Apollo is the oldest of three boys, so he has to grow up quickly to help take care of them. They stay with different relatives and friends,

• 6:32Speaker 00

  and Apollo even spends some time on the streets. At one point, he sweeps parking lots to make money. This is such a sad backstory, and it's also not one that I really knew because everything I know about Apollo is from The Real Housewives and is learned through Phaedra. Well, one day in 1995, when Apollo is just 17 years old, his luck seems to turn around.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  He's stuck in traffic on Atlanta's Interstate 285 when he spots a beautiful woman in the car next to him. She has deep brown eyes and a coy smile. This woman is none other than Phaedra Parks, and right away, he's smitten. Here's Apollo talking about their meet-cute years later on the podcast Reality with the King.

• 7:19Speaker 04

  So we're driving. I seen this pretty little thing, you know. I start flirting. I start messing with it. I go, "Hell, we're in traffic. There's nothing else to do."

• 7:27Speaker 00

  If a guy flirted with me on the freeway while we were in traffic, I think I would take the car and drive it over the other cars to get away from him. And I think that would be a reasonable response. While she doesn't do that, the two get to talking, and Apollo is probably impressed. Phaedra is a 22-year-old law student at the University of Georgia. She's a woman who goes after what she wants, including in this moment. When traffic starts moving, Phaedra motions for Apollo to follow her. She leads him to her driveway, where she gives Apollo her number. A few weeks later, they go to Applebee's for their first date, and they click instantly. After that, they start dating on and off.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Unfortunately, not even Phaedra can keep Apollo on the straight and narrow. A little over a year after they meet, Apollo falls in with a ring of people committing auto title fraud. While we don't know Apollo's exact role, we do know this group was stealing cars and creating fake titles of ownership and VIN numbers in order to resell them. Apollo gets arrested twice within six months. First for stealing a Lexus, then for stealing a BMW and having a concealed weapon. Despite appearing to be actively bad at crime, Apollo keeps going. In August of 1998, he's arrested yet again, this time for driving a stolen Audi. But even with all his arrests,

• 8:54Speaker 00

  he only ends up spending a total of about five months in jail. Apollo and Phaedra keep dating, and Apollo keeps criming. But then, in June 2002, an off-duty officer catches Apollo with keys to stolen vehicles, and his arrest leads to the takedown of his entire criminal ring. Along with the others, he's accused of running a scheme to sell illegal cars for over five years. They're all charged with racketeering, theft, and forgery. Apollo later claims that Phaedra was initially his lawyer in this case. So while I'm sure she isn't thrilled with his shenanigans, it sounds like she's very much aware of them. Yeah, Phaedra was aware of them. This is like a constant problem in the Housewives universe,

• 9:39Speaker 00

  where these women marry these men that are full of red flags, and then they pretend like they had no idea. Of course she knows. Yeah. Well, about 10 months later, at just 25 years old, Apollo is found guilty and sentenced to 18 years in jail. Apollo's life has been filled with uphill battles, but this latest one might be the steepest. And now that he's in jail, Apollo must think his on-again, off-again relationship with Phaedra is officially off for good. But that couldn't be further from the truth.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Six years later, in the spring of 2009, Phaedra is running her own law firm, The Parks Group, and she's establishing herself as a kick-ass attorney to the stars. She's represented celebs like Bobby Brown and Jermaine Dupri. Phaedra is clearly thriving. She even appeared on the cover of a magazine called "Georgia Super Lawyers." Sachi, can you describe the picture for me?

• 10:37Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, I sure can. This is classic Phaedra. She's in a blue jewel-tone button-up shirt. She's got her arms crossed in front of her. This is a woman who means business. This is also before Phaedra was really big on Real Housewives, so the hair is a little more modest, the makeup is more modest.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:59Scaachi Koul?

  But I do see glimmers of Phaedra Parks in there, yes.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, Phaedra's ambitious and successful, and she's still got a soft spot for her ex, Apollo. Even though they're not together at this point, they've been constantly writing letters to each other while he's in jail. But now, Apollo is about to get out. He's paroled in May of 2009, and the first person he goes to see is Phaedra. She's out of the country when he comes by, but her assistant relays a message. Phaedra must have been impressed and a little bit touched, because when she gets back to Atlanta, they start dating again. And things get serious very quickly. We read what Phaedra later said about it.

• 11:40Scaachi Koul?

  She said, "Apollo was very focused on settling down and having a family. He was still very much in love with me, and I thought he was still cute. I just knew we always had a true connection." Who amongst us has said this about the worst man in the world?

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Well, about five months later, in November 2009, Phaedra and Apollo get married.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  The ceremony is held in one of the wealthiest areas of Atlanta, and the guest list includes music moguls, reality TV personalities, and some of Atlanta's most powerful judges. The wedding planner is Dwight Eubanks, a longtime friend of Phaedra's, who's rising to Bravo celebrity status as a sassy best friend on The Real Housewives of Atlanta. Phaedra is living out the wedding of her dreams, but it must be a little overwhelming for Apollo, who just regained his freedom and is still trying to get back on his feet. And then, not even three months later, the newlywed couple is asked to join the cast of The Real Housewives of Atlanta. Before they're even on TV, rumors start flying as fans dig up Apollo's past.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  And Phaedra isn't happy. She even responds to the haters by publishing a statement on a gossip blog called "Straight From the A." Scaachi, will you read an excerpt from it?

• 13:00Scaachi Koul?

  She says, "As Malcolm X so eloquently put it, stumbling is not falling. I believe in my husband. I trust my husband. I love my husband. And I know he loves and adores me." Well, you know, if you gotta quote Malcolm X, that probably means you're right.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you know, I understand, like, giving someone another chance, but doing it so publicly? I don't know, girl.

• 13:23Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  Well, she ends her statement by putting everyone in their place, saying, quote, "People who are still keen on hating should really be ashamed of themselves." Phaedra's truly a perfect housewife before even stepping in front of the camera. But the big question is whether Apollo is as ready for the spotlight and all the scrutiny that comes with it.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  A few months later, in the spring of 2010, Phaedra and Apollo are set to begin filming The Real Housewives of Atlanta, which is in its third season. And Apollo is probably a ball of nerves. He and Phaedra have only been married for a few months, and Phaedra is pregnant. Like, pregnant, pregnant. She looks like she's about to pop. Things are moving so fast. He's about to be a new father, and he wants to provide for his family like his own father never did. And he's going to do it on camera. Apollo must feel like the weight of the world is on his shoulders. Plus, there's this little thing that Apollo is keeping from Phaedra. Almost immediately after he got out of jail, he went back to committing crimes.

• 14:33Scaachi Koul?

  I can't think of a worse time to do crime than when your partner is pregnant and you are on a national televised franchise that millions of people are gonna watch and that gossip blogs are gonna tear apart.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, at least this time, he's trying to be more discreet. He's not boosting cars, he's stealing identities and creating counterfeit identification documents. Then he uses them to request government refunds and apply for loans. This scheme is complicated. He's even set up fake collection agencies so he can access databases full of people's personal information. The benefit of moving into this kind of crime is that he can do it all from behind a computer screen. He's probably thinking he can just keep this part of his life a secret, even from Bravo super fans. Apollo tries to act naturally as they begin filming. The cameras are rolling when he welcomes a couple from church over for dinner.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Since Phaedra and Apollo got back together, married, and pregnant within a few months, their church set them up with a mentor couple to help them navigate their new normal. The couples sit down at Phaedra and Apollo's impeccably decorated dining room table as a chef serves their first course. And they quickly start discussing the topic of love languages. Sachi, you know all about love languages.

• 15:58Scaachi Koul?

  I do know all about love languages. They're all over my TikTok feed. They are words of affirmation, quality time, physical touch, acts of service, and then gift giving and receiving. And Sarah, as you know, my love language is being mean.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  That being your love language comes as no shock to me or anyone listening. I personally think they're all kind of fake, but Apollo says his is quality time. In response, Phaedra smiles and says her love language is gifts, pretty fitting for a real housewife. But in Apollo's opinion, gifts are not a love language. It's a pretty core difference in values for the newlyweds. Then, in May 2010, Apollo and Phaedra's first son, Aiden, is born. Now Apollo is a new dad, still running his schemes, and he's filming a show that's all about flaunting obscene wealth. It is a lot. A few months later, Apollo and Phaedra's season of Real Housewives starts airing,

• 16:58Speaker 00

  and the conflicts that have been roiling between them are suddenly out there for the world to see. Right away, Phaedra addresses the fact that she's the breadwinner.

• 17:07Speaker 05

  I'm married to Apollo. He's younger than me. I'm further along in my career and more established than Apollo. But he's on the prenup, so I know he doesn't want my money. He wants me.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  There's a big contingent of Real Housewives where they are the breadwinners amongst their heterosexual partnerships, and these men cannot handle it. They feel so cocked on television that their wives make all this money. Both of them get paid when they do something like The Housewives, but all of that is because of someone like Phaedra. They hate it. They get so resentful. Yes, there's definitely a huge undercurrent of that going on on every franchise, but all those guys aren't committing crimes. One of the couple's first scenes on the show is that conversation about love languages.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  It sets the stage for the ongoing tug-of-war between responsibility and luxury that keeps popping up in their scenes. Even though Phaedra wants Apollo to play the part of an adoring and financially independent husband, he's still grappling with his criminal past and criminal present. To be clear, Apollo is open about his stint in prison, and Phaedra seems fine with that, in theory. But in The Housewives universe, how you're perceived on the show is never fully within your control. And by episode three, housewife and fan favorite NeNe Leaks trashes Apollo in a confessional.

• 18:37Speaker 06

  The word on the street is that Apollo is a criminal. He has stole cars, and he went to prison for like six years. And now he's back, and he is the husband of Phaedra High Class Parks.

• 18:53Speaker 00

  If you know Nini, you know that she's batting her eyes in a way that implies that she finds this whole situation shady. But Phaedra shrugs it all off, calling Apollo's past exactly that.

• 19:05Speaker 05

  Apollo was in prison for racketeering, which is really a white-collar crime. He's no different from Martha Stewart. He served his time, and people need to just get over it.

• 19:14Scaachi Koul?

  I don't necessarily disagree, except I don't know that Martha kept doing crime after she got out of jail, and it seems like Apollo is.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Yes, but also, these people don't know that, therefore...

• 19:27Scaachi Koul?

  Right.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  I think in this moment, she is making a point. He did his time, and he's out?

• 19:32Scaachi Koul?

  Yes, she is.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  This is definitely a talking head moment that hasn't aged great. And now that the show is airing, Apollo's laundry is out there for all to see. And so are the tensions between him and Phaedra. Apollo is getting a taste of the extreme scrutiny that comes with instant fame. On camera, his future is looking bright. But as any fan of reality TV knows, the truth has a way of coming out when you least expect it.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Once Aiden is born, everything changes in Apollo's world. Starting with Phaedra. She shifts her affection from Apollo to Aiden, calling him her little prince. In May 2011, they throw their prince an over-the-top first birthday party at a water park. And of course, Bravo's cameras are there to capture it all. Phaedra and Apollo charter a bus for their guests and serve 12 different cakes, one for each month that Aiden's been alive. Phaedra's making it clear that this is a new standard for their lifestyle. But Apollo is struggling to keep up. Sachi, can you read how he explains it later? Oh, boy. Yeah, he says...

• 20:45Scaachi Koul?

  You know, I just felt like with everything coming down on me, the lifestyle that TV creates and everything with that nature, I kind of just got sucked in, engulfed in it, and totally lost sight of everything. I mean, yeah, I can see how that can happen. But also, you're an adult. Yes. And you can say, "I can't afford 12 birthday cakes" if that's the reality of your situation.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, he has a choice in everything. But when it comes to cons, Apollo has his eyes directly on the prize. The last time Apollo was arrested, he was caught up in the bust of a bigger criminal ring. So now, he's being very particular about who he works with. He's only asked one person to join his latest scheme, an old friend named Gaila Saint-Germain. Gaila and Apollo have been friends for years. He needs help, and he knows she needs the money, so he brings her in. Apollo acts as a man behind the curtain. He makes fake IDs with stolen names and info and uses them to apply for fraudulent government refunds and auto loans. Gaila deposits the checks at the banks.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  And in an effort not to draw attention to herself, Gaila wears disguises. She wears workout gear for one visit, then chic business attire for another. She also wears wigs, glasses, and makeup to appear 35 years old one day and 70 the next.

• 22:11Scaachi Koul?

  Unfortunately, Sarah, I love this. It is Inspector Gadget-level scamming, and I like it.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  I feel like that would be what would suck me into a scam. I get to dress up? Okay.

• 22:24Scaachi Koul?

  There's something so analog about this. I'm into it.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  And Gaila has a standard MO at the banks. First, she opens an account with the minimum amount possible. Then, soon after, a large check is deposited into the account. As soon as the check clears, Gaila withdraws the cash. By the time the banks realize the funds are stolen, all or most of the money is gone. With all of her fake identities and costume changes, Gaila is working hard for the money. Apollo may not wear costumes, but he's pulling off the biggest disguise of all. On TV, he plays a guy who's learned some hard lessons and finally figured it all out. But while Bravo viewers see a wholesome family picture, off camera, the feds have started to get wind

• 23:12Speaker 00

  of the schemes making this lifestyle possible.

• 23:22Speaker 00

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  also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things that come back to haunt us. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 24:55Speaker 07

  I feel like a legend.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  In February 2012, Special Agent Alexandra stands in an Atlanta UPS store. This is the special agent from the very beginning of this episode, who's trying to track down Gaila. He shows the store owner a picture of the woman he's after, and the owner confirms she has a P.O. box at his store. In fact, he has a package waiting for her, and she's due to arrive any minute. So Alexandra waits in his car. And not long after, the woman in question walks in, gets her package, and drives away in a blue Mercedes-Benz. Now that Alexandra finally has eyes on his target, he's not letting her out of his sight. So he follows her to a Kroger's grocery store. He stays a few steps behind as she goes inside,

• 25:44Speaker 00

  shops, and checks out. The moment she exits, he gets her transaction details from the manager. And that's when he discovers that she paid for everything with an EBT food stamp card. With this info, Alexandra is finally able to identify the suspect he's been following: Gaila Saint-Julien. Alexandra's excited to have finally ID'd her, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Now he has to figure out the exact details of her crimes, like how many victims there are and how much money she's stolen. Alexandra follows Gaila to another UPS store, where she has even more P.O. boxes. The UPS manager tells him that there's actually another investigator looking for Gaila. This guy is with a Georgia State Agency,

• 26:29Speaker 00

  and he suspects Gaila of identity theft and fraud. The two agents share the info they've gathered, and from there, Alexandra is able to connect the stolen IDs with more than 30 open accounts, which add up to over $2 million in stolen funds.

• 26:46Scaachi Koul?

  Yet again, Sarah, a case of so much work for not really that much money.

• 26:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. The schemes are complicated. They involve numerous victims, fake documents, and multiple bank accounts. This complex web of crimes will take Alexandra over a year to untangle. But he's on Gaila's trail, and now it's not a matter of if he cracks your scheme and who's behind it, but when.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  In mid 2012, not long after Alexandra stakes out the UPS store, Phaedra and her new Housewives castmate, Kenya Moore, are sitting together at a bar. While Phaedra was an instant hit with Housewife fans, Kenya has been more controversial. Every franchise needs a villain, and with her holier-than-thou attitude and on-call security guard, Kenya rubs almost all her castmates the wrong way. Everyone, that is, except Phaedra. When the two first met, they instantly hit it off. And at the bar, Phaedra tells Kenya about her latest project, a workout video to help women achieve what she calls "a donkey booty." Sachi, can you read how Phaedra defines "donkey booty" on the show?

• 28:00Scaachi Koul?

  Gladly. I recite this to myself every night before bed. She says, "Donkey booty is just a nice, firm, round behind. For women who were not born with a bountiful bottom, my husband and I will be doing a fitness video that is going to have butt-lifting and butt-plumping properties to give you that curvaceous bottom that you dream of." Phaedra has a great figure, and I don't think she has that figure through whatever she is trying to sell here. I think she has it because God chose her as one of their favorites.

• 28:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I also don't think people want to be like, "I'm gonna get my donkey booty," you know?

• 28:39Scaachi Koul?

  I'm open to it.

• 28:41Speaker 00

  Well, Phaedra's doing all this because she's trying to highlight Apollo's new career as a certified nutrition specialist and personal trainer. So Apollo will create the workout, and she'll be the star of the video. The only thing they're missing is a producer. That's where Kenya comes in. She has a production company, so she offers up her services. Not long after that chat at the bar, Phaedra and Apollo meet Kenya and her boyfriend for a double date. And Phaedra can't help but notice that from the moment Kenya meets Apollo, she's smitten. She tells him flat out that he looks buff and like a supermodel. Apollo politely accepts the compliments, but Phaedra is clearly turned off.

• 29:23Scaachi Koul?

  This probably feels like a good place to pause. And say that Apollo is a hot person.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  He is, and it explains a lot of his trajectory.

• 29:32Scaachi Koul?

  It explains why these women are like tripping over themselves to talk to him and why Phaedra keeps making these allowances for his behavior, because he is a hot person.

• 29:42Speaker 00

  Yes, she's like, he has the structure, I can fix him. And it only gets worse from there. In the summer of 2012, the cast takes a trip to Anguilla. At dinner one night, Kenya puts her arms around Phaedra and Apollo and poses a hypothetical question. Apollo's birthday is coming up, so who would Phaedra pick to have a threesome with her and Apollo? Kenya is giggling the whole time and insists she's just kidding, but Phaedra isn't laughing. Despite Phaedra's discomfort, she and Apollo still need help with their workout video. So a few weeks later, they meet up with Kenya to review a budget proposal. But they can't come to an agreement on Kenya's rate,

• 30:25Speaker 00

  so Phaedra tells Kenya they won't be using her services. And then Kenya ends up making her own workout video. She calls it Booty Boot Camp, and according to the DVD's cover, it will quote, "Get you the round stallion booty you've always wanted."

• 30:42Scaachi Koul?

  I love The Real Housewives so much. Only on this franchise could two women who are like smart and educated and rich get in a butt fight.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's truly mind blowing. By the time the season airs, Kenya and Phaedra are full blown enemies. At the cast reunion in spring 2013, a very pregnant Phaedra sits next to Apollo while Kenya sits on the opposite couch, and it is tense. When asked about the state of their relationship with Kenya, Apollo bluntly admits he doesn't like her, to which Kenya snaps back, quote, "Maybe you shouldn't text me then." Apollo then claims that she was the one who texted him to say, quote, "I would do to you what your wife don't do to you."

• 31:32Scaachi Koul?

  I am not gonna be put in a position to defend Kenya,

• 31:37Scaachi Koul?

  even though I do kind of love her. However, I have questions about whether Apollo was answering these messages.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 31:46Scaachi Koul?

  Because like, I don't think she came out of nowhere and was like, "I'm gonna fuck you because your wife doesn't fuck you."

• 31:52Speaker 00

  No.

• 31:53Scaachi Koul?

  I think he was luxuriating in the attention. It is not to be missed that Kenya Moore is also a hot person. Everybody in this story is hot.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  I agree that this is just another shady Apollo thing. And Phaedra sits there maintaining her composure, but it's pretty obvious she's seething under the surface. After this fiasco, Phaedra writes Kenya off and doesn't look back. She's got more important things going on. Because just a few weeks after the reunion show airs, Phaedra gives birth to their second son, Dylan. They say a new baby can either bring a couple together or reveal cracks that were already there. And for Phaedra and Apollo, these cracks are about to become chasms.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  It's early September 2013, and Gaila St. Julien is meeting with Apollo at a gas station in Atlanta. She waits around while he fills up his new white BMW. When he's done, he hands Gaila $5,000 in cash along with two fake IDs. He instructs her to withdraw cash from one of their fraudulent accounts to pass along to him. Gaila knows this process well. They've been at it for the past four years. Apollo might handle the paperwork, but she's the one who has to go into the banks and open the accounts. It's her ass on the line. She looks down at the $5,000, thinking about how it's a fraction of Apollo's cut. But she feels like she has no other choice. Gaila needs the money.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  Her daughter had a liver transplant a while back, and her medication is costing Gaila around $3,000 a month. So she bites her tongue.

• 33:36Speaker 00

  You know, scam is never good. We try on this show not to advocate for scams. But this is a case where it's clear that for Gaila, the money means something very different than it does for Apollo. I mean, it sucks that she feels like she has to scam, but I do understand there are far higher stakes for her than there are for him. And then, a few days later, the worst happens. Gaila is arrested, and the case against her is strong. If she's found guilty, she'll not only serve jail time, she'll also have to pay back the more than $2 million she stole. But she's not about to take all the heat by herself. So when she's face to face with Alexandra in that interrogation room, she says she wants a deal.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  She quickly gives Apollo up. Gaila tells Alexandra that Apollo was calling the shots in their fraud scheme. He provided her with the fraudulent bank account information and fake IDs. And every time she moved funds from account to account, it was at his direction. But Alexandra needs proof, so Gaila agrees to let the agents record future phone calls between her and Apollo. She figures if she's going down, then he's going down with her. For the next few days, the special agents listen in as Gaila and Apollo discuss pending transactions and payments he's expecting to come in. Gaila has laid the trap, and an unsuspecting Apollo walks right into it.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  It's September 13th, 2013, just two days since Gaila's arrest. Apollo is in a parking lot in Atlanta, waiting to meet with Gaila so he can hand her a debit card he wants her to use. The card is connected to an account he made for a fake auto dealership. And he wants to be sure the account is still active before he funnels stolen money into it. But instead of Gayla, Apollo is approached by Secret Service agents, and they have a warrant for his car. Apollo must be sweating. His laptop is in there, and it has databases of stolen identities, bank account numbers, and copies of forged driver's licenses, some with Gayla's picture on them. Apollo is free to go once the feds take his laptop.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  Two months later, Gayla reaches a plea deal with the feds. She's cooperating in their investigation into Apollo. So now he's stuck in limbo, waiting for the other shoe to drop. Phaedra later claims that she had no idea what was going on during this time. So if this is true, then Apollo is dealing with this all by himself.

• 36:09Speaker 00

  I do believe that. I do believe this is one of the rare cases where the wife really didn't know. I don't think she knew. Yeah, I mean, I don't think this is something she would want to be happening, you know? Apollo waits, and waits, and waits. And then, in January of 2014, he's finally arrested and charged with bank fraud and identity theft. Shortly after his arrest, Apollo is released after paying $25,000 for bail. He's ordered to surrender his passport, and he can't leave Atlanta without getting approval from officials in advance. But he is allowed to keep filming, so that's what he does. And by the time they filmed the reunion special in March of 2014,

• 36:53Speaker 00

  the whole cast knows all about Apollo's arrest. Apollo's world is crumbling around him, but he and Phaedra are determined to put on a brave face. Apollo sits on the reunion couch with his arm around Phaedra, as if everything's fine. But Andy Cohen, the host of the reunion and the face of Bravo, is not gonna miss an opportunity to dig into this drama. He brings up rumors about the two of them being separated. The couple scoffs. Of course they're not separated. Their relationship is solid. But then Andy moves to an even more sensitive topic: Apollo's charges. And Apollo deflects by focusing on his go-to enemy, Kenya.

• 37:37Speaker 00

  Sachi, can you read what he says to her?

• 37:39Scaachi Koul?

  Yes. He says, "You best hope nothing happens to me, because you might not have a job. You know why? I'm your storyline. I sustained your career. You should be paying me. I built you, okay? I built you."

• 37:57Scaachi Koul?

  Crazy. Crazy thing to say. Crazy thing to say to Kenya. That is not true. She built herself. She did not need Apollo for anything. She is Gone with the Wind fabulous. She doesn't need a man.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  And I also find it really funny because it's very clear Apollo has some sort of romantic feeling towards her.

• 38:16Scaachi Koul?

  He's obsessed with her.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but Apollo and Phaedra vowed to stick together in good times and bad. This is certainly the bad and things are about to get even worse. The next month, Gala is sentenced to more than five years in prison for conspiracy to commit fraud and aggravated identity theft. And in a matter of weeks, Apollo will go before a judge to answer for his crimes and his marriage will be pushed to the edge.

• 38:49Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Kenya Barris. And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects. We're bringing you fresh, new conversations from guests like Anderson Paak, David Zedars, Ryan Howard, Richel, Amy Sheldon, and many more. Sign up for a free trial to Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. I'm Gemma Whelan, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari. A famous dancer turned World War I secret agent accused of seducing Allied officers

• 39:23Speaker 07

  to uncover their plans. But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari early and at free on Audible.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  In May of 2014, about six weeks after his dramatic Real Housewives reunion, Apollo stands in an Atlanta courtroom. He's decided to plead out in the hopes of getting a lesser sentence. But the judge is not messing around. He asks Apollo point blank if his schemes were intended to defraud banks and the US Treasury. And Apollo admits he acted without considering the consequences or how it would affect others. The judge asks why Apollo would do this when he's married to a successful woman and has good money coming in from a TV show. And Apollo basically says he's been living day to day since he was born, and that he got sucked into the lifestyle and money, and that he lost sight of everything.

• 40:29Scaachi Koul?

  I get that he has trauma. I understand that. But also, that is a bad excuse. This is a bad excuse from somebody who did have the means to make money in other ways, like still kind of bullshit ways.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:45Scaachi Koul?

  You know, he could have started some weird company, or he could have had a cameo account, or anything. That is not a good excuse.

• 40:51Speaker 00

  It's maybe the worst excuse. It's like, you got an amazing life, fresh outside of prison, and then you just kind of went back to doing this?

• 41:00Scaachi Koul?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  Well, the hearing ends with Apollo apologizing to the court and his sons. It is heartbreaking. He grew up without his parents being around, and he can't believe he's putting his kids in the same situation. Two months later, Apollo returns to the courtroom for his sentencing. He's joined by one of his brothers and his mom. But Phaedra is notably absent. Apollo's mom pleads with the judge for mercy. She basically claims responsibility for sending Apollo down a bad path. She even says, quote, "I know I was never a good mother." The prosecutor reminds the court how sophisticated Apollo's scheme was, calling it, quote, "breathtakingly complicated and nasty." And she points out the fact that even when Apollo and Phaedra hit it big on Bravo

• 41:46Speaker 00

  and were making good money, Apollo didn't stop. He only stopped because he got caught. The judge must be moved by some of Apollo's story. Because although he has the ability to hand down a much longer sentence, he decides to give Apollo only eight years, slightly more than the minimum. The judge then places him under voluntary surrender, which means Apollo is allowed to go home until it's time to report to prison. In addition to his jail time, Apollo has to pay almost $2 million in restitution. He'll also be placed in supervised release for five years once he finally gets out. But while the judge might be feeling generous, Phaedra may not be so understanding.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  While Apollo's standing in front of the judge, Phaedra is across town, sitting in a penthouse suite with her mother and her two kids. They've just begun shooting the seventh season of Real Housewives, and Phaedra has allowed the Bravo cameras into the penthouse. If Phaedra feels bad for not being by Apollo's side during his sentencing, she doesn't show it. In fact, she later says that, once she found out he was back to his criminal ways, she was done with him. So Apollo returns to an empty house after sentencing. Days later, when Phaedra and the kids finally come back, tensions flare. On camera, Apollo accuses Phaedra of abandoning him and implies that her lavish lifestyle drove him to steal.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  Then, he accuses her of taking all the money they collectively earned on the show.

• 43:23Scaachi Koul?

  I mean, she was taking care of their children. I don't know about that, Apollo.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, we don't know if these claims are true, but either way, Phaedra seems to be completely done with him. She and Apollo spend less and less time together while he waits to find out when he's due to report to jail. But they're still sharing a home. And as they get closer to his departure, their fights get more and more intense. At one point, Apollo even threatens to wreck their house. Phaedra finally takes the kids and moves out. She returns home in September 2014, on the day Apollo is supposed to report to prison. As the cameras roll, Phaedra stands in the garage, explaining how relieved she feels now that Apollo's gone. And that's when Apollo pulls up to the house.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  He's supposed to be checking himself into prison, but he's making one last stop. They start arguing, and Phaedra says she doesn't know what Apollo is capable of. That's when he picks up an electric drill and walks towards her.

• 44:29Speaker 05

  I don't want to call the police, but I will. Please, go away from me with this. Go away from me. Stop it, Apollo. I don't want to hear what you gotta say.

• 44:41Speaker 00

  That sound you hear is a drill being pushed on and off.

• 44:45Scaachi Koul?

  This guy is not well. That is menacing and threatening and creepy and weird. And this person is the mother of your children.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  It's also so evil because he can blame Phaedra as much as he wants, but he made all these choices. He's in the wrong, and now he's threatening her?

• 45:02Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  It is all very tense and very disturbing. Somehow, Phaedra remains calm, and Apollo finally leaves. After all his crimes and cons, Apollo is heading back to prison. But another chapter of his life is closing as well. After almost five years of marriage and two kids, Phaedra's asking for a divorce.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  About a year after Apollo reports to prison, Phaedra is in the car with her mom and two sons. They're on their way back from a federal prison in Fort Dix, New Jersey. They spent the day visiting Apollo, who's been dragging his feet signing the divorce papers. And Phaedra's frustrated. She just wants to move on and leave Apollo's mess behind her. By the way, Apollo's time in Fort Dix overlaps with another scamfluencers alum, fellow Real House husband, Joe Giudice.

• 45:59Scaachi Koul?

  That feels right.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  It does.

• 46:02Scaachi Koul?

  I hope they made friends and I hope they stay away from the women they were married to.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Yes. And finally, about two years later, in July of 2017, their divorce is finalized. But that's not the only big blow for Phaedra that year. She's fired from The Real Housewives of Atlanta after spending seven seasons on the show. Sachi, do you remember when that all went down?

• 46:26Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, I absolutely do. I actually think Phaedra did something so bad that it made people forget about everything that happened with Apollo.

• 46:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:35Scaachi Koul?

  She accused another woman and her husband on the show of conspiring to drug and rape a third cast member. And it all came out during the reunion and she couldn't hide from it. And it was so dark and so scary and she got fired for it. She's still on reality TV. She'll probably come back to the show, so it's not a real consequence, but she did get fired from Real Housewives of Atlanta.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  It seems like this was a very dark time for her. And Phaedra turns her focus towards raising her sons and looking for a new reality TV home. She spends most of 2018 filming the Wee TV series Braxton Family Values. In June of 2019, Apollo is released after serving just five years in prison. He tries a new slew of jobs, including house slipping, directing, and of course, personal training. Best of all, after years of tumult and tension, he and Phaedra finally seem to have a good relationship and are happily co-parenting their sons. And in October 2022, Apollo marries his fiancee of six years. But it's not exactly a happy ending.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  In July 2024, after almost two years of marriage, Apollo is arrested and charged with family violence battery after an alleged altercation with his wife. He's released after posting a $3,000 bond and his wife tells Page Six that although it's a hard time in their marriage, they're working through it. Apollo is like a phoenix rising from the ashes 100 times over. Maybe this time he'll rise with a newfound appreciation for justice, the legal system, and the women who keep standing by his side, propping him up the whole way.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  Sachi, before we really get into the story, I have one question. What is better, a donkey booty or a stallion booty? I will say, they don't call her Meghan the donkey.

• 48:31Scaachi Koul?

  I was gonna say, stallion booty has aged better.

• 48:34Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:35Scaachi Koul?

  I think Kenya maybe understands marketing in a different way than Phaedra did, ever does, ever will. But ultimately, everyone's a loser in this story, I think, one way or the other. I guess if I had to pick, I would want a stallion booty.

• 48:52Speaker 00

  Okay, one thing that I couldn't stop thinking of throughout reading all this and learning more about Apollo is like, why would he just fumble the bag so hard? Being a house husband to a rich lady, his life was great. I just, I'm so confused as to why he just couldn't stop.

• 49:11Scaachi Koul?

  I mean, I think it's hard for men to accept when their wives are the reasons that they can have these lifestyles. And I think he couldn't get out of his own way. And he was used to hustling, like he did it as a kid because he had to. So it was an environment where he felt maybe more safe and more comfortable. And he's on this show where the topic of whether or not you provide for your family as a man comes up again and again. But it's not an excuse, it's not justifiable. He's a grown up and he should have known better. But it's very obvious where all of it came from. And it makes his ex kind of a reliable scapegoat. Because then he gets to say like, oh, well, she was spending all this money and I couldn't keep up and I had to keep up.

• 49:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do think there's this whole thing with people on reality TV, especially when it's like a show about lavish lifestyles, where someone like Jen Shaw, for example, you find out that, you know, a lot of her bags are fake and she was renting this or this and that. And it's like this whole facade everyone's creating, which then makes viewers be like, wait, I should be having that too, my life sucks. But it doesn't really drive people to fraud usually.

• 50:22Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, generally.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  Most of the House husbands aren't doing this kind of fraud, this direct kind of fraud. A lot of them perform like weird shady acts that never really get explained. Also, like, they're such hubris in behaving like this because you're on a show that is designed for people to pick apart your money situation, your work life, your personal life. Like, Real Housewives investigators are terrifying. And I would not go on a show like that if I didn't have all of my Ts crossed and all of my Is dotted. I do think that if the Secret Service wasn't on top of this, like, a fan would have figured it out. Yeah, yeah. If the government didn't put it together, then like,

• 51:09Speaker 00

  talk of Bravo on Instagram would have figured it out in a couple of days. Yeah, there would have been Reddit investigators figuring it out. We all know that you are very pro divorce. I am. What do you think the lesson here is today with this story? I think the lesson is that if you are going to go out with an insecure man, then he should at least have his own bank account. Agreed. Ideally, you don't go out with an insecure man at all. And if you want to be the breadwinner and you're a woman and you're in a straight relationship, then great. He should be at peace with that. And if he's not, then you should have separate bank accounts forever.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think also a big lesson is like, maybe don't go on a reality TV show that films every moment of your life within the months of your husband getting out of prison for racketeering. Yeah, I guess the lesson is don't racketeer. Yeah, don't do it. Don't do it.

• 52:13Scaachi Koul?

  Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  This is Apollo Nida: It's Never Too Late to Apologize. I'm Sarah Haggy.

• 52:29Scaachi Koul?

  And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected]. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were The Miseducation of Apollo Nida by Kelly Richmond Pope and Rodney Ho's reporting for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  Alison Weintraub wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggy. Eric Thurm and Olivia Bryle are our story editors. Fact checking by Lexi Peery. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Free Sound Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Flues. Janine Cornelo and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enney and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marsha Louie, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.

• 53:43Speaker 02

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• 54:27Speaker 02

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