The Phony Phone Company w/ Andy Richter

Andy Richter (The Three Questions, Conan) joins the Con-gregation to break down the story of the An0m encrypted cell phone—a phone branded as "by criminals for criminals"—and international gangster Maximilian "Microsoft" Rivkin who became a criminal influencer for the company. Make sure you listen 'til the end 'cause there's a twist! Stay schemin'! This story was primarily reported by Joseph Cox in his book Dark Wire: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/joseph-cox/dark-wire/9781541702691/ Listen to the Andy Richter Call-In Show: Wednesdays on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Radio (Channel 104) Buy Laci's book “Scam Goddess: Lessons from a Life of Cons, Grifts and Schemes": https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/laci-mosley/scam-goddess/9780762484652/?lens=running-press Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Andy Richter: @richtercommaandy Research by Jack Pineda. SOURCES: https://www.wired.com/story/inside-biggest-fbi-sting-operation-in-history/ https://books.google.com/books/about/Dark_Wire.html?id=L9faEAAAQBAJ https://therecord.media/maximilian-rivkin-fbi-europol-reward-anom-encrypted-phones https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/the-us-and-sweden-have-put-a-bounty-on-the-head-of-alleged-an0m-gangster-maximilian-rivkin/news-story/1a92d24061aa3cf4d1e55bf458bd1de9 https://www.vice.com/en/article/anom-phone-arcaneos-fbi-backdoor/ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whats-the-best-phone-to-do-crimes-on/id1614253637?i=1000665605260

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection,

• 1:15Speaker 01

  inflammation in the nose, flu or fluke-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks, and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com, or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:50Laci Mosley?

  What is poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with a podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them. Sometimes we hate them. We will see along the way. And y'all already know parasocial girlies, they's, them's, him's. You already know that I'm very, yes, excited, thrilled, elated. Love this man so much, so excited that we have him on the podcast. Our guest today is an OG Team Coco family member, who you know from every iteration of Conan O'Brien's late night shows, okay? He also hosts the popular podcast, The Three Questions,

• 2:33Laci Mosley?

  and has a new weekly radio show on Sirius XM called The Andy Richter Call-In Show, okay? Congregation, please, welcome one of the greats, Andy Richter. I'm so excited to see you, Andy.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Hi, Lacey, how are you?

• 2:47Laci Mosley?

  I'm good. You know, I haven't seen you since you hosted the town hall for Kamala Harris when she was running for president.

• 2:56Speaker 03

  No, you did see me in the Sirius XM parking garage.

• 2:59Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  Because you had parked, you had parked me in. I couldn't get, it was so funny because.

• 3:08Laci Mosley?

  Why you outing me as a bad driver? Everybody knows that.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  No, no, no. Well, the parking spaces are very narrow and I drive a biggish car.

• 3:16Laci Mosley?

  I do too.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  But I looked at this car that kind of had me blocked in and I was like, oh shit, I'm gonna have to open up the tailgate and crawl my fat ass through the entire length of this SUV. And then I saw your book on the seat and I was like, I bet that's Lacey's car. And then I went around the elevator and there you were. I was like, can you move, please?

• 3:38Laci Mosley?

  That was the body timing. Yes. And I was like, let me move very slowly so I'm not hit this man's car because he can't see me, okay?

• 3:47Laci Mosley?

  Don't worry, y'all. When I hit cars, I leave notes. I leave notes.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Oh, that's, that's really nice. That's really nice.

• 3:53Laci Mosley?

  Well, I did until I'll say drop me and then now y'all can't handle notes no more.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Geico does not allow me to leave notes.

• 4:02Laci Mosley?

  You know what? I want to tell y'all something because I was lying to y'all for many years, congregation. But the reason I dressed as the general last year for Halloween was because for a time I did have the general car insurance. Go ahead and put this guy, this Jamaican air horn there. Y'all really caught me and I was lying to y'all because I really didn't want y'all to know. But yeah, when the black man who was the president on 24 was like, you're not in good hands. I was like, I went to State Farm and they were like, okay, great, but can we just see your driving history? And I was like, oh, yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  I'll get that right over to you.

• 4:39Laci Mosley?

  And they were like, oh, baby, no. Uh, Jake does not want to deal with you. He played my boyfriend on iCarly. And I still, I was like, okay, um.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Well, so you had to go with Shaq then?

• 4:51Laci Mosley?

  I had to go with Shaq. I had to go with Shaq.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:54Laci Mosley?

  And listen.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  My joke, my joke with the general and those commercials was it like, like, I guess Shaq must do the animation. Because the quality of the general.

• 5:06Laci Mosley?

  I think it's excellent quality. And I think if you want a good rate, you can get online.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  All right, all right. I'm not gonna insult the general.

• 5:15Laci Mosley?

  Sponsor the show, the general. I can't believe I'm telling this deep secret.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  I support the troops, so I support the general too.

• 5:21Laci Mosley?

  This is a dark secret that I've had.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  Well, I'm glad we could get that right. It did not take much to get you spilling your guts. We're like three minutes into this thing.

• 5:32Laci Mosley?

  I held on to that for a long time. And then Andy, you gonna come out the gate talking about, no, the last time I saw you was when you were doing parking errors. And I'm like, okay, you know what?

• 5:43Speaker 03

  Well, no, it was also too, because when you mentioned that the interview that I did with Kamala Harris, it's like, it still fucking stings.

• 5:52Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 03

  So much.

• 5:53Laci Mosley?

  And we don't have to get into it, because you know.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:56Laci Mosley?

  Oh, how I feel.

• 5:57Speaker 03

  We could talk, yeah.

• 5:58Laci Mosley?

  I'm in Ireland and I'm choosing delusion. Sometimes we gotta choose delusion.

• 6:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, they might have broke me this time. I might be like, you know, like, there's, because I'm amazed by how many people go through their lives not knowing shit, like not, like not knowing anything about who's running for what and who isn't, you know, the Secretary of State, like just being blissfully uninformed. And I'm ki- I kind of feel like, and I know, I hear the critiques already. Well, yeah, white man with money, it's easy for you to say, you know, like, I'm checking out when there's people who are, who can't check out, who are vulnerable. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but I still might check out, because I don't know what else I can do. I give money, I volunteer.

• 6:48Laci Mosley?

  Andy, you were a foot soldier. You have been. Black women, we clogging out. And I tweeted that and then a lot of people started responding. Somebody said, clogging out, that sound like we gonna clog back in, bitch, we retiring. I was like, oh my God. Except for us.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  I saw that day of the day that, you know, the morning after the election and it was a, it was an African American person saying something like, fuck this, I'm keeping my head down and taking care of mine. And, you know, me and mine. And I was like, I get it. I understand. Because what more do you have to do to let people know a snake is a snake, you know, like, and what more, you know, there's an old, an old David Sedar, David Sedaris said about undecided voters. And I think this was back in 2016. He said, it's like you're on an airplane and they say, what would you like to eat? We have two entree options.

• 7:44Speaker 03

  We have a chicken and then we have a plate of dog shit with ground glass and cigarette butts in it. And he said undecided voters are basically saying, how do you prepare the chicken? Like they're like, they're like, I still can't make up my mind between chicken and dog shit. And the country voted for dog shit. I'm sorry. And I, you know.

• 8:09Laci Mosley?

  It's a scam. And I, I hate it for us because it wasn't, as much as people like to talk about identity politics and you know, the envy that certain people have of like, people living their true lives and being there and expressing themselves the way they want to their pronouns, whatever, even though everyone has pronouns, like, I don't understand why that was ever a thing. Like he, she, they, the, it's always existed. But really, the identity politics that came out of the country were that the people who were the most insecure about themselves voted for somebody who made them feel good about themselves and did not check into a single policy. And when I tell you it is about to rain hell. But listen, we don't want to talk about that a lot on this podcast. I know y'all

• 8:53Laci Mosley?

  use this for escapism. I'm trying to help y'all, but this is a huge scam. So we, it's a scam. And so hold your loved ones close, whoever you voted for, like, stay strong, because it's gonna, it might get a little rough.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  I know. No, and I mean, it is, this is the perfect podcast, though, to be, I mean, it certainly is topical to this podcast because, you know, as far as I know, he's the first president to be selling merch.

• 9:18Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Like, straight up fucking merch, bibles.

• 9:21Laci Mosley?

  He got hats, bibles.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  And trading cards.

• 9:25Laci Mosley?

  He got neck chains.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  Just it's a whole, it's a whole barrel of scammers and, and grifters and all right, I guess that we're a scam.

• 9:37Laci Mosley?

  This feels like your relationship with scams right now, Andy. Like what it like, what is your relationship with scams? Have you been scammed? Have you run some, anything? Or it could just be this.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  I mean, I've been, I, I've been scanned. I, I personally am not good with them because A, I, I get nervous about like even when, even when like friends, you know, years ago, like I, I used to have friends that would like to do sort of improv scenes out in public, like spontaneously, just to fuck with people or you know, like, like get into a fake argument at the coffee shop kind of stuff, just like for fun. And I never found it to be fun. It all, I always felt like, well, A, like these, it's, cause the joke's kind of on the people that don't know that an improv scene is going on.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  And I just kind of feel like, well, those poor people, they're, they're living their fucking lives. They weren't, they don't want to be part of your comedy thing. And especially for, you know, friends like used to film stuff, like, you know, like prank kind of things in public.

• 10:44Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I was about to say, it's giving like Ashton Kutcher, but y'all not on camera.

• 10:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And it's, well, then even so, on camera, I, I guess if they give them a, you know, after minimum or something, it's okay. But other than that, it's like, these people, they're living their lives. They don't need to be part of your little fucking comedy scene. And so I, it always just made me nervous and I always, you know, you like, you know, prank calls and stuff. I just am too, I identify with the person that I'm pranking. So I never have been able to pull it off.

• 11:17Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 11:18Speaker 03

  I end up identifying with the oppressed person in the dynamic. You know, if the scammer's the oppressor, then I identify with the person that's being oppressed. And I just think, oh no, I don't, I don't want to do that, you know?

• 11:32Laci Mosley?

  We like to say scam up, don't scam down. And so, you know, if someone else is robbing everybody, then yeah, let's go get, let's run their pockets. But if it's the opposite, yeah, I understand. Like we completely empathize, like empathize the same way. I did do a prank show oddly enough with Shaquille O'Neal.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 11:52Laci Mosley?

  I don't know if it ever came out.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  No wonder you got a good rate from the general.

• 11:56Laci Mosley?

  Don't bring that back up. We need people to forget. I never said that, y'all. Remember me different. Remember me with different assurance.

• 12:06Laci Mosley?

  But it was at the beginning of COVID and it was right before I went to do a black lady sketch show. And my lawyer called me and she was like, why are you flying to Atlanta for this amount of money? And I was like, Gray's like, hold on, like, listen, this is my friend. These are people who got me my sad card. Like, I just want to get out of my house. Like, I'm gonna go do it. So it was a show called Shaq's Got 'Em Good. And I love that man so much because he has carved a career where he can just show up and be like, I'm Shaq. And then leave. And that's, and they paying him so much money to just be like, hello, I'm Shaq.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  And he also is really, really nice and really fun.

• 12:39Laci Mosley?

  Lovely, lovely human being. Drove a Hellcat and every time he got out of it, it looked like he was getting out of clown car. I was like, how the fuck are you in here? And he had like pushed the seats all the way back so his long ass legs could be in there. Just an amazing man. But we had to do pranks on people, but the whole prank was that at the end, like Shaq would pull up and be like, we got you good and it is a gift or whatever. So we had one, I think I've talked about this on the podcast where it was like, this man was a veteran and he would drive around the country on his motorcycle and kind of counsel other veterans with PTSD. And so he thought that he was going to a rally that I was hosting that was supposed to be giving shelter and homes to pit bull dogs,

• 13:24Laci Mosley?

  which you know are always discriminated against as like violent and everything. So he thought that that's what he was doing because he has a pit bull. So he gets there. We put his bike up on a tow thing and we're like, we're towing your bike because it says the plates are stolen and all this stuff. When I tell you this man was so nice about this situation, he was like, no, I can, I can go home and get, and get my, you know, my tags and my registration. I swear this is my bike. He was so sweet. It was killing me inside. Killing me inside to keep this bit going. But we knew that Shaq was gonna pull up on a Harley Davidson and be like, this is your new bike. We love you. I'm Shaq. Goodbye. And so we had to keep it going and I was dying inside. And then I realized that I could never be on the opposite end of a prank show because I would not be endearing.

• 14:09Laci Mosley?

  I would have cussed everybody out and be like, bitch, I'm gonna go there. I will stab everybody. Like, they would never use the episode.

• 14:18Laci Mosley?

  So yeah, I'm just like you, I sympathize with the person who's like being pranked or something is happening to them where their nervous system is now like going crazy, their anxiety is high and it's like all of that. That's why I've never really loved like surprise parties where people try to let you down before they bring you up. It's like, that's not for me. That's for y'all. Like, I don't get the enjoyment out of thinking that everybody didn't want to come to my birthday and then I show up in a dark room and y'all are all here. That didn't make me happy. That was an emotional roller coaster. I was crying earlier, listening to Jewel. Why would y'all do this to me?

• 14:51Speaker 03

  I would have never had to listen to Jewel if you people had just been straight with me. Yeah, I only, I had one surprise party years ago. My ex-wife threw for me.

• 15:03Laci Mosley?

  Surprise parties are a scam. Can we just say it? Like, why are you trying to make me feel bad before you make me feel good? I don't like that.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can't, well, it wasn't even, it was just like we went out to dinner and then we went to this little bar that was kind of a place that we would go to. And I walked in the door and then I saw David Keckner, who's been a friend, you know, actor and friend of mine for a million years. And I was, I just had this moment of like, what's he doing here? And then, you know, like then started to see like all these familiar faces and it still took a second to process. And then it was surprise. And I did definitely had the feeling of like, oh, well, shit, why didn't you just throw me a party? Like, this is just, it just felt dumb, you know, just like, oh, okay.

• 15:48Laci Mosley?

  So I can be dressed how I want to be dressed. We're gonna be taking pictures.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, you got me.

• 15:53Laci Mosley?

  Oh, y'all are satisfied with that? You sickos.

• 16:03Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  It may be time to try something else. Extensor is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extensor is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection. Common colds, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensor. Learn more at extensor.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 17:33Speaker 04

  Your team is on a deadline, but moving all your enterprise data will take time your business simply doesn't have. IBM Technology lets AI work with your data where it already lives with an open hybrid cloud approach designed to build on your existing investments. It's another way IBM helps you put your data to work. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  As somebody who's now a scam expert, do you, because like, do you ever fall for them? I mean, you know, you get the...

• 18:11Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Like now, I just, there's so many, you know, now you're just sort of primed to know when an email is fishy, you know? And even, and even if some of them, like, some of them are really good, you know, where they actually...

• 18:23Laci Mosley?

  Oh, they're getting our information.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they're using the bank's logos, they, you know, it doesn't look, because some of them are just sad, you know? It's obviously like a cut-and-pasted eBay.

• 18:34Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  Logo and then like five, five Turkish names, you know?

• 18:40Laci Mosley?

  And the easiest way to tell if it is a scam is by looking at the email address and where it's coming from. And then also looking at the body of the text and checking for typos. If you see typos or if the email is too long, I've told y'all. If people are talking too much, giving you too much detail, they're lying. Like, why do you need to tell me this much information? And if they're requiring you to do any kind of response, you just don't respond. And that's how you stay away from these types of scams. But I get them all the time and I got one while I was in Ireland that I talked about on the show, so I won't go into detail. But it had a picture out front of like a Google image of my old address. It had my old phone number. It had all this stuff and it was threatening me. It was so menacing.

• 19:24Laci Mosley?

  And it was like 24 hours to respond, all this shit. I did not respond. And I almost wanted to just for fun and to see like where this was gonna go. Because I knew it was money and they were like, oh yeah, they send it in crypto and all this shit. And I was like, I'm not doing that.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz that's legit. People are always asking for crypto.

• 19:38Laci Mosley?

  Right. That's their legit money. Like, let's be serious.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 19:42Laci Mosley?

  Millennials, that's on us. We couldn't, the, the finance industry with Wall Street is kind of like brick and mortar now. Like, we can't break that glass ceiling. So we made up our own money. I thought it was very fun. But we know it's a pyramid scheme. And we know that all the people who made money off crypto made it and have already left. And now it's expanding to people, you know, lower than so that they can continue to recoup their investments. You're not gonna make anything. If you see anybody on, on Facebook talking about your cousin, talking about you gotta get into, no, no, no, don't.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  No. I don't even know about money, but I knew enough to be like, no, that sounds like bullshit.

• 20:19Laci Mosley?

  I mean, all money is made up, so they're not wrong.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:23Laci Mosley?

  But we know this is an obvious Ponzi scheme, so let's just call it on crypto.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:30Laci Mosley?

  Please.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Right, right. And then when you start to see that they have ATMs at gas stations, then it's like, okay, this is not stocks and bonds. You know?

• 20:39Laci Mosley?

  Even though, that's also a casino.

• 20:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, exactly. Exactly.

• 20:45Laci Mosley?

  But it's a better structured casino. This one is not great. So we need to let it go. Let it go, y'all. You're not gonna sell that Bitcoin if you got it. Try to make what you can, but wouldn't recommend. So I want to get into our next segment here, Andy. This is Historic Hoodwakes, my favorite part of the show. This is where I will regale you with the famous con caper group of criminals. We don't know yet. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them, you know?

• 21:11Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:12Laci Mosley?

  And we'll just see. So I want to get your opinions all throughout. So we don't scam our journalists. So I do want to say in this, we'll be in the footnotes too. So you can click on that article, give them some clicks as well. This story was primarily reported by Joseph Cox for Wired Magazine and in his book Dark Wire. So get onto Joseph Cox, get onto Dark Wire. You know, like if you want even more details about this, because it's very interesting. And it's a little complicated, so we've simplified it. But if you really want all the tea, you know, pull up on Joseph and his things, Joseph Cox, okay? International gangster Maximilian Rifkin became a criminal influencer for Anom.

• 21:53Laci Mosley?

  It's spelled A-M with a zero and then M. Anom.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:59Laci Mosley?

  A new brand of encrypted phones marked as the best phone to use for elite, like illegal activities.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 22:06Laci Mosley?

  Little did he know, the phones may not have been as secure as he thought. Like I always think of a burner phone as just being like a flip phone. I watched The Wire.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 22:16Laci Mosley?

  So but a whole criminal branded phone is very funny to me. Because I think people just use like what, like WhatsApp or um? What's that other encrypted text app that people use for crime? Uh.

• 22:27Speaker 03

  Oh, it's like, uh, it's the, yeah, it's the one that like, whenever I see people screen grabbing uh, texts from like, you know, like, hello, my name is, you know, my name is Julia. Is this Stacy? And then, you know, and then they, yeah, or whatever. And then they like try and, and then it's always like funny.

• 22:46Laci Mosley?

  Ukrainians.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  It's just like old, like funny queens that that'll be like, you know, like, help, I'm trapped in my basement. You know, like just then they'll like tease him with it. And it's always, it's WhatsApp.

• 22:58Laci Mosley?

  That's what I was thinking.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  Telegram, that's the one, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:01Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, it's always a help I'm trapped in my basement.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Start a Telegram account and then we can talk from there. You know?

• 23:08Laci Mosley?

  You know, when you trapped in your basement, you just need Telegram.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Why do they do that? Why do they go, want you to go to Telegram before they start doing any kind of, is it because?

• 23:17Laci Mosley?

  Because it's encrypted and so it's not traceable and it's not their personal phone number. So they can go over there and play with you, steal your money and then just kind of go off the grid and start a new profile. And they don't have to worry about being traced back.

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Well, I'm going to close down that eighteen Telegram accounts that I've opened.

• 23:34Laci Mosley?

  Were you running crime, Andy? Why you got eighteen?

• 23:38Speaker 03

  No, I just was really, I was helping out some poor women that really, you know.

• 23:42Laci Mosley?

  That were in basements, but they did have Telegram to contact you in America.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly. Yeah.

• 23:46Laci Mosley?

  And that makes sense.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  They, they needed, they needed money for their mother's plastic surgery.

• 23:51Laci Mosley?

  Which is urgent.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:53Laci Mosley?

  You know?

• 23:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:54Laci Mosley?

  So Maximilian, who more commonly went by his nickname Microsoft. Okay.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  Okay, sure.

• 24:02Laci Mosley?

  Was a Serbian international drug trafficker based in Sweden.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Can I just say, Microsoft is not a nickname that you would want to choose if you want to feel sexy.

• 24:13Laci Mosley?

  No, it's not sexy at all.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  Micro and soft together, no.

• 24:17Laci Mosley?

  It's not a sexy name. You're right about that.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  No.

• 24:20Laci Mosley?

  Also, if you're doing drug trafficking, I want your name to be, I don't know, like Knife or like.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. Like Thunder Hammer or something, you know?

• 24:29Laci Mosley?

  Thunder Hammer is amazing.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:32Laci Mosley?

  Or like.

• 24:32Speaker 03

  Skull Crusher.

• 24:33Laci Mosley?

  Ghost.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:35Laci Mosley?

  Shadow Man. Shadow.

• 24:37Speaker 03

  Lobo.

• 24:38Laci Mosley?

  By itself. Lobo is good. Okay, let's get into some, some different languages. Yes.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 24:45Laci Mosley?

  I like that. That's sexier than Microsoft, which is not.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  Microsoft, yeah.

• 24:51Laci Mosley?

  His, his, his, uh, his code name was Stone Cold Kramer. What, what are we doing? Like, what, what do you mean? It was McDonald's. Like, what?

• 25:02Laci Mosley?

  He doesn't sound menacing.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:05Laci Mosley?

  You know.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  His name was Norton Antivirus.

• 25:09Laci Mosley?

  Like, or pick a color. He could have just gone by Blue, or like, you know.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I have, I have a feeling, though, that he was going for the, you know, and I, I assume we're talking about somebody Eastern European or Russian.

• 25:22Laci Mosley?

  Serbian.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, Serbian. I, I assume he was going for Microsoft means genius.

• 25:29Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  You know, it's like, like tech worshiping sort of scammers who, you know, it's like, Microsoft, it, cause Apple does not have the same feeling.

• 25:38Laci Mosley?

  He could have just gone by Black Turtleneck then, Mr. Jobs, Jobs.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Jobs.

• 25:45Laci Mosley?

  You should keep pitching on your name, Microsoft, because we don't like it. So, Microsoft was in, like, he was notorious for his unorthodox schemes for hiding drugs. He shipped hash inside furniture, cocaine inside shipments of tulips, and amphetamines inside cans of energy drinks. Now, how you gonna send me meth inside of already meth? I grew up in the time where Four Loko was not regulated, like.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 26:11Laci Mosley?

  What do you mean? So in early 2020, Microsoft learned that the company who made the most popular encrypted phone for criminals in Sweden got hacked by law enforcement. This meant that criminals in the country were looking for a new device to secure their communications. The, we got hacked by the government, they're hating on us, we need a new way to do this. So, Microsoft, I can't keep calling him Microsoft. Maximilian, why did you pick this name?

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Lil Max.

• 26:41Laci Mosley?

  So Lil Max, Lil Max Microsoft, saw this as an opportunity and got connected with a startup company called Anom. Anom was a luxury encrypted cellphone brand by, it's like saying, buy criminals, for criminals. And then we got this criminally looking guy here, and he's posted next to this, like, neon sign that says Anom, enforce your right to privacy, I'm assuming, because he got his arm over the end, of the word, but it's gotta be privacy. If it's enforce your right to privates, then we got new problems. We got new problems we do not want. So he hooks up with this company. And most encrypted phones were very basic.

• 27:25Laci Mosley?

  Just texts and that's it. Anom let you send high quality photos, voice notes, and use emojis. Come on, this is a millennial experience.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 27:35Laci Mosley?

  It also boosted security features like PIN scrambling, where the PIN entry screen randomly rearranges when the screen closes, so no one can copy the pattern to open your phone. A wipe code, a code that you can enter that immediately erases your entire phone. Okay. And the phone's Messenger app could be set to open only if a specific calculation was entered into the phone's calculator. So this is like primetime crime.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Right. But this is all, this is a promise. We don't know that this is actual. This is like the, in the brochure, it says all this.

• 28:11Laci Mosley?

  I mean, I'm looking at the picture of the phone right now. It looks like it's doing all these things.

• 28:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:16Laci Mosley?

  So Anom was founded by a tech savvy entrepreneur who went by the nickname AfGo?

• 28:22Speaker 03

  ApGo.

• 28:23Laci Mosley?

  AfGo with F. A F G O O. What are, y'all nicknames are trash, but okay.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  It's, yeah, it's the dark web. They, they need a nickname generator.

• 28:32Laci Mosley?

  Although AfGo is better than Microsoft. AfGo kind of does feel like he does murders. So, okay. AfGo was looking to expand the company across Europe. And a notorious drug trafficker like Microsoft was the perfect brand influencer for Anom.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 28:49Laci Mosley?

  Like, look, crime is its own business. And there's so many enterprises, there's so many different sectors of crime.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:57Laci Mosley?

  You know, things that we call crime for me are sometimes nebulous. Cause I'm like, oh, you're a drug dealer, so you're a street pharmacist. You know what I mean? Pharmaceutical companies do the same shit. So.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 29:09Laci Mosley?

  It's just different branding.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  But it is, it is weird that you can, you know, most influencers, they want to be, the whole point is that they're, people are going to know about them. And they are going to publicize something. And that seems to go counter to what. Huge criminals want out of life.

• 29:29Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, crime influencers wanna influence in their communities. They want you to, you know, they wanna walk into the like drug front. Everybody's like, oh, that's AF, you know, or AF. You know, that's Microsoft. They don't wanna be, they just wanna be known amongst their community. They don't wanna be known publicly.

• 29:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't want like El Guapo for J Crew, you know. It wouldn't, it wouldn't work out for El Guapo.

• 29:54Laci Mosley?

  Griselda for Gucci. No, we don't. We don't want that. We don't want that. So Microsoft joined the team, right? No, not join the team, not Microsoft teams.

• 30:08Laci Mosley?

  So his job was to add legitimacy to the phone brand and be a bridge between the company and the criminals. Microsoft assured his criminal network that the police would never get anywhere near the platform, claiming they could trust this app. Anom, right? Or this phone Anom. And that its founder, Afgu, was one of the most criminal people there are. That's he was like, rest in assured, Afgu does crime, okay?

• 30:37Laci Mosley?

  Best part of waking up is crying in his cup. He's not going to turn on us.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  Again, I just, how sustainable is this? Like, how can this not end up being a problem?

• 30:52Laci Mosley?

  I know there's so many criminals that I probably will never know about. I dream about them sometimes. Cause I'm like, I will never know about them because they were so good and they, they were on their dying bed and nobody ever knew. No one knew. Now, the thing about technology and crime is that there's just such a footprint that it's harder. You know what I mean? Like, we gotta get back to sending like notes and burning them in the fireplace. Like, this is, there's too many footprints here.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:18Laci Mosley?

  So to prove to others that the phone was secure, Microsoft put everyone who worked for him and his entire drug network onto the Anom phones. He was like, I'll start with me. I'll put myself on the line. I want y'all to know this is safe. In addition to coordinating his drug ring, Microsoft also used the phone to contact potential hitmen. He even asked one hitman if he could get a bulk discount for ordering multiple hits at once.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, like a punch card at the car wash.

• 31:51Laci Mosley?

  You get, you do nine hits, you get the tens for free.

• 31:56Laci Mosley?

  And I just wanna say shout out to Rent a Hitman cuz you be on my ass. I did an episode about this website called Rent a Hitman. Can y'all look up Rent a Hitman cuz I need to see his name. But this man is so petty. He's my kinda petty. Anytime, cuz I said that his website was a scam because instead of doing the hits, he would turn people in who paid for a hit to the police. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing. But you still scamming because you not doing the murders.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:30Laci Mosley?

  As Sophia Vergara would say, the murders. You're not doing the murders. And I don't want you to do the murders. But it's still a scam cuz you didn't do the murders. Anytime someone gets arrested from his site, he will tag me on any platform and be like, see, what I'm doing is not a scam. It's helping the community. And I was like, Rent a Hitman. I'm with you. I'm on your side.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  It is technically a scam because it's, he's purporting one thing and it's actually another. It's not his fault that, you know, like the scam.

• 33:01Laci Mosley?

  He's doing a good thing.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  You know, he's scamming bad people. Yeah, he's, he truly is scamming up, I think.

• 33:07Laci Mosley?

  He, I, I think he is. I think he is. But I've seen many articles. He makes sure to let me know. Uh, it's been five years, it's almost six, and he, he will tag me or email me. He wants me to know. But I wasn't calling him a scammer. I was just saying like, you're not doing the job. So technically, this is a scam cuz you didn't do the hit. You said Rent a Hitman and you not even leasing yourself out for the murders. Like.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  No, right.

• 33:33Laci Mosley?

  But this is so funny to me. Like bulk hits? What? Like, murder's not funny, but Costco murder, a little funny.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Right. Groupon murder. Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  Because also too then, it's like, say he sets the discount at four, but you only got three people you need murdered. You're gonna just make up somebody to get murdered just to get the 10% or whatever, you know, the discount is.

• 34:03Laci Mosley?

  Cause that's how kind of discount pricing works in our mind. We will, if they're like two for, you know, five, or they're like 50% off if you buy four, I'm gonna buy four. So now I gotta buy four murders because I want the savings.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  I want the savings. Yeah. I wonder, and I wonder if he did try and do like coupon codes.

• 34:28Laci Mosley?

  What would those coupon codes be?

• 34:33Speaker 03

  Plug in, kill them all in the, in the discount code.

• 34:41Laci Mosley?

  Plug in four stabbings, one car accident.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Plug in, get that bitch.

• 34:52Laci Mosley?

  For 20% off, okay? We got you. Plug in, start that engine.

• 35:00Laci Mosley?

  No, so they got bulk discount hits, right? However, Anom, the phone, wasn't only used for evil. Microsoft's associates also regularly used it to send each other photos of their vacations, because they're a friend group.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Of course. I mean, and what's the point of living a life of crime if you're not gonna enjoy it?

• 35:20Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, you got to. You got to.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. Show off to your friends, you know, your friends.

• 35:25Laci Mosley?

  We're at yacht week at Croatia. Just did that 20% hit.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Your friends like Best Buy.

• 35:34Laci Mosley?

  So part of the Anom business strategy was that you could only message other Anom phones. So if Microsoft could get a high-ranking criminal to get an Anom phone, all criminals below them had to also get the phone to communicate on the network. Talk about a Ponzi scheme.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:51Laci Mosley?

  It's like now your crime boss is on Anom, y'all gotta get on Anom too. I feel like this is how the iPhone got me with them green texts because we, I have bullied so many people into not having an Android phone anymore. Cause I was like, I can't look at this doodoo green. Like.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  You just don't like the green.

• 36:06Laci Mosley?

  No, it's a doodoo green. They made it such an ugly green on purpose. And I'm like, and they make it to where if you have a group chat, it spreads it all out and does it all weird if there's an Android in it. So we were like, I've bullied classmates and shit. We were like, get an iPhone. We're tired of this. We'll never speak to you again. We will never talk to you again.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Yes, even just to talk to us, you can get us just as a spare as like a dedicated Lacy phone.

• 36:31Laci Mosley?

  Literally, I guess I was running Anom before Mr. Jobs and his black turtleneck. So it was like a classic pyramid scheme. Like I said, Microsoft even pitched it as an investment to high ranking criminals since they could make money off their underling. So it's like, if you get people to sign up to Anom for crime, then we'll give you a little kickback. Or maybe you don't have to pay your Anom phone bill or whatever. Like, you know, they're like hooking it up a little bit. The drug and phone businesses were booming, so Microsoft decided to expand his empire. Little did he know, it was all about to come crashing down.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  Oh, doesn't it always?

• 37:10Laci Mosley?

  Sometimes I hope, yes, sometimes I hope not. In this case, I think.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Crime, crime sometimes doesn't pay. That's really what it should be. Sometimes crime doesn't pay.

• 37:22Laci Mosley?

  And sometimes crime pays very well.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Sometimes it's very lucrative.

• 37:28Laci Mosley?

  I mean, that brings us back to what we were talking about before with our government. The crime is paying real good at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. Like, they get paid. So in late twenty twenty, now we're talking very much pandemic, right? Microsoft opened a large amphetamine lab in the basement of a beautiful cottage in the Swedish countryside. He thought it would be the last place law enforcement would ever look. Cause he's like, it's bougie, it's nice. Nobody's gonna think we break in bed in the basement.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 38:00Laci Mosley?

  I wouldn't think that.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  It's Sweden. Yeah.

• 38:03Laci Mosley?

  But also like, doesn't meth stink when you cook it?

• 38:06Speaker 03

  I don't know. What are you asking me for? Who talked?

• 38:10Laci Mosley?

  Hey, you sound a little guilty. You sound.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Who talked?

• 38:13Laci Mosley?

  Who talked?

• 38:16Laci Mosley?

  No, we on the nom. Nobody talked. Nobody talked.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  Well, I know it is really dangerous.

• 38:22Laci Mosley?

  Cause it can like blow up. It's like crazy chemistry, right?

• 38:25Speaker 03

  And I think also like poison gases can, like it can asphyxiate people too.

• 38:30Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, it's a very dangerous drug to cook from my understanding. Although I think they've gotten a little more skilled with it.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:39Laci Mosley?

  Like they used to always buy Sudafed to do meth starters. Now they don't need that anymore. There's been advancements. Yeah, they've, there's been chemical advancements. And then somebody was like, I shouldn't say this, but we don't need Sudafed no more. Y'all can stop doing that buying thing.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:55Laci Mosley?

  So shortly after Microsoft started this lab and this cottage, this beautiful house in Sweden, right? The lab was raided and Microsoft had no idea how. Maximilian, little Max, little Microsoft. Do, do, do, do. Is that it? Do, do, do. It's something like that.

• 39:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:15Laci Mosley?

  So instead of slowing down, Microsoft tried to make up for his losses with the lab. Everyone on the Anom network started getting suspicious. Rumors spread that Anom was sending information to law enforcement, but Microsoft refused to believe it. Now, Microsoft, you don't know how they found your countryside meth lab. Why wouldn't you be suspicious as well?

• 39:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:38Laci Mosley?

  Of if maybe this phone app, probably the only place that you were like, bring meth here is

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:45Laci Mosley?

  Getting raided.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe it's your crime phone.

• 39:49Laci Mosley?

  If, I would look at the crime phone first.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:52Laci Mosley?

  Like what did he look to first if not the crime phone?

• 39:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, if your phone can listen to you and know that you're looking for cardigan sweaters and then flood your, you know, your feeds with cardigan ads. I think maybe if your meth lab in the Swedish countryside gets raided, it might be the phone.

• 40:14Laci Mosley?

  It doesn't feel like a stretch to look at the phone first.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:17Laci Mosley?

  Clearly he was a first mover on this brand and he really believed in the product. He was like, there's no way.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  He must, yeah, he had some, what is it? The sunk cost factor, you know? He already had so much in it that he's like, it could not be, it just couldn't be.

• 40:32Laci Mosley?

  And if you don't know what sunk cost is, y'all know I got a scholarship and I have a business degree. And I'm saying that for that one follower again, because you don't like that I say that. So I'm saying it again. But sunk cost, we talked about it on the show, is when you've lost in an investment or in any type of situation, it could be a relationship, it could be anything, where you've spent a lot of time, which is money, you've spent a lot of money or energy, anything into something. And so you believe because you've spent so much that you have to keep paying into it because if you don't, you are gonna accrue this huge loss. And the fallacy of sunk cost is that once something is gone, it's gone. And so you can actually save by walking away.

• 41:17Laci Mosley?

  But people don't wanna walk away because they're like, I've already sunk so much into this, I wanna recoup. But that is the fallacy of it, is that once you realize something isn't right, you need to walk away because that's actually how you save. Your energy, your money, your time, everything.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  It's pride, it's just pride, I think. You know, like you just can't admit that you were wrong.

• 41:38Laci Mosley?

  I think that's one half of it. And I think the other half is that some people just get so invested that they do not wanna believe that something is not what they thought it was. And I think that actually does tie into pride as well, like you're saying. And you're like, I, I can't be wrong. I can't be wrong about this, or I don't wanna be wrong, I don't wanna feel wrong. And it's okay to be wrong.

• 41:58Speaker 03

  It'll hurt my feelings. It'll hurt my feelings to admit that my crime phone is bad.

• 42:04Laci Mosley?

  Also, remember, he was the crime influencer. He was the crim influencer. He brought all these people into this. And so if he has to admit that it's just as corrupt as the other phones that got caught up before Anom, he, he gonna take a huge reputational criminal L.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, which also could involve getting your head cut off.

• 42:27Laci Mosley?

  Yep, and in crime, people have to trust you.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:31Laci Mosley?

  Probably more than in regular business. Regular business, we all be quiet quitting, stealing pencils, staplers. I told y'all, if you leaving a job, go ahead and collect everything from the desk. What they gonna do?

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:41Laci Mosley?

  But, I never said that, but. But yeah, so maybe there's a lot of what you're saying is tied up into it, Andy. So over the next few months, he arranged several large scale drug deals and every deal, one after another, was raided by the police.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  Oh, Microsoft.

• 43:02Laci Mosley?

  Now, Maximilian, a little micro, a little soft.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Hmm, a little softy.

• 43:07Laci Mosley?

  After the first drug raid, after you've already had your meth lab raided, why would you not stop?

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 43:14Laci Mosley?

  And just like, get a bur- get a flip phone, go back to the nineties. I don't know, go get one of them phones that they had in the nineties that had like the purse with it and like, you know.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, or a beeper.

• 43:27Laci Mosley?

  Get a beeper.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  What about beepers?

• 43:28Laci Mosley?

  Let's go back to beepers, drug dealers, and then get on payphones.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  Rock solid for drug dealing.

• 43:34Laci Mosley?

  That's where they messed up in the crime industry for drug dealing. Get a beeper.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, get a beeper.

• 43:39Laci Mosley?

  Like Kim Possible said, call me, beep me if you want to reach me.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that was a wire subplot, in fact, you know, to go back to the wire. I think that was part of the wire.

• 43:50Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, it was the wire.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, they went back to beepers.

• 43:55Laci Mosley?

  And that was smart, you know, you hit a little eight six seven five three oh nine on the beeper and then call from nearest payphone or whatever, like, what are we doing? Crime Better, that's what we're saying.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  Come on, Maxie.

• 44:07Laci Mosley?

  Y'all getting lazy, you're getting lazy, Maxie. Okay, you're not maximizing, you're not being a maximista.

• 44:16Speaker 05

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting. It may be time to try something else. Extensure is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extensure is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Common colds, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flu-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensure. Learn more at extensure.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 45:48Speaker 04

  Your business operates under pressure and you need control over your data. But IBM Research shows only 9% of companies have real oversight of their technology. IBM's Open Hybrid Cloud approach is designed to give you visibility with built-in governance tools, data sovereignty, and compliance reporting. It's another way IBM helps you stay in control of your data. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 46:21Laci Mosley?

  So he was confused and dejected, just like you say, Andy, the ego coming in with the dejection. At one point, he texted an associate a picture of him writing on a notepad with the message, "Searching for projects, counting losses." And then it has this emoji that has like the, like, bandage on the head, like, the yellow sad emoji with the bandage on the head.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:44Laci Mosley?

  He's like, "I'm so sad. I haven't got no projects. Nobody want to do crime with me no more." He getting ostracized.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  I'm hurt.

• 46:52Laci Mosley?

  The Mean Girls of Crime were like, "You can't sit with us."

• 46:58Speaker 03

  You got raided.

• 46:59Laci Mosley?

  You got raided, okay? So Microsoft had no idea what was going on. How do you not know Microsoft? We already know.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  I know.

• 47:06Laci Mosley?

  And he wondered why this was all happening to him. Why me? Until June 2021, when the shocking truth behind Anom was finally revealed. Will the real scammer please stand up? In June 2021, the FBI called a news conference to report the arrest of hundreds of criminals around the world. Let's watch a clip from the news conference.

• 47:34Speaker 06

  For the first time, the FBI developed and operated its own hardened encrypted device company called Anom, A-N-O-M. As we allege in our indictment, criminal organizations and individual defendants that we have charged purchased and distributed Anom devices in an effort to secretly plan and execute their crimes. In fact, Anom's distributors, administrators, and agents had so much competency and the secrecy of their devices that they openly marketed them to other potential users as designed by criminals for criminals. But the devices were actually operated by the FBI.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness.

• 48:20Laci Mosley?

  Not the F to be in the I.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  The scammers scam the scammers.

• 48:25Laci Mosley?

  And the FBI is a scam, but I.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:28Laci Mosley?

  You know, the F to be in the I are usually lazy. When it came to January 6th, they was on Instagram and Twitter like, can y'all tag them?

• 48:38Laci Mosley?

  But they, oh, oh.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  The hardest part is find out that we've been saying it wrong the entire time.

• 48:45Laci Mosley?

  Anom.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Anom.

• 48:47Laci Mosley?

  It's like anonymous.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's Anom.

• 48:50Laci Mosley?

  Anom.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Anom, Anom, Anom.

• 48:51Laci Mosley?

  I think he got an accent. I think it's Anom, like anonymous, but that's.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Apparently, our researcher Jack said that it is Anom and that the FBI guy was pronouncing it wrong.

• 49:04Laci Mosley?

  He had an accent. Why would he know that? The F to be in the I don't.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  If I were on Microsoft, I would definitely have my lawyer bring that up in court.

• 49:11Laci Mosley?

  Like, we were on a different app.

• 49:12Speaker 03

  That guy didn't even know how to say it.

• 49:13Laci Mosley?

  But that guy got up there and clearly he was the top FBI guy who gets, he got to take credit for some, like, person who probably just got out of Quantico and came up with this shit, and he got to take credit for it. He don't even know how to pronounce the fake app. I don't believe it was him.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  I hope the other agents made fun of him back in the locker room.

• 49:34Laci Mosley?

  Mm, in the locker room.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Anom, Anom, Anom.

• 49:38Laci Mosley?

  Other whipping each other with towels.

• 49:42Laci Mosley?

  So from the very beginning, Anam was an FBI sting called Operation Trojan Shield. Oh, they love to give themselves a little, a little title, a little, that makes them feel cool.

• 49:57Speaker 03

  Trojan Shield sounds like a dental dam.

• 50:02Laci Mosley?

  Trojan Shield sounds like, like the thickest condom to me.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  Yep, guaranteed to never come. Don't worry about it.

• 50:15Laci Mosley?

  Protected for her pleasure.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:18Laci Mosley?

  You don't feel nothing. She won't get pregnant. He won't get anything. Whoever we using it on, Trojan Shield. That's where you fucking a porn star. You gotta get Trojan Shield.

• 50:29Speaker 03

  Trojan Shield.

• 50:30Laci Mosley?

  Locking the dick down.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  The full body condom.

• 50:35Laci Mosley?

  You've seen the Tesla. It's like shaped like a Tesla Model A, like that truck.

• 50:41Laci Mosley?

  Like, why is it pointy? Yeah, it's the Trojan Shield.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's just it.

• 50:46Laci Mosley?

  Why are you even having sex? Trojan Shield.

• 50:50Laci Mosley?

  The people at the top of the company were agents reading every message any criminal ever sent. And it's so random that I talked about Rent a Hitman, because y'all are Rent a Hitman. This is Rent a Hitman. Like, y'all are.

• 51:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:06Laci Mosley?

  So this all started in 2018, when the FBI shut down a different encrypted phone company called Phantom Secure. So remember, we talked about that at the beginning. They were looking for a new, like, criminal phone.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:17Laci Mosley?

  And so as they started making arrests, one of the distributors for Phantom Secure, AfGoo, approached them saying he'd been working on a, like, starting a revival company with better software. So AfGoo is the ops.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  I see.

• 51:33Laci Mosley?

  He traded his, his special skills.

• 51:37Speaker 03

  He, he, what do you call it? He flipped.

• 51:40Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  He went from being evil AfGoo to the, you know, the government.

• 51:45Laci Mosley?

  Good. He was like, listen, I know I was AfGoo, but I can be F good if y'all wanna shave some of this prison time off, okay?

• 51:52Speaker 03

  I can be F gov.

• 51:54Laci Mosley?

  F gov. Oh, no. He was F gov. He said, fuck F good. I'll be F gov.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 52:03Laci Mosley?

  So Afgho made the FBI an offer. If they reduced his sentence, duh, they could have everything he built. The FBI jumped on the opportunity. The FBI, the F to be in the I, put a few phones out into the world to see if people would trust it enough to use it for criminal activities. A hundred percent of the beta testers used it to conduct crime. And the F to be in the I caught every word of it. So they beta test, this is like the apple.

• 52:35Laci Mosley?

  No, not Steve crime jobs, not, no.

• 52:45Laci Mosley?

  So the marketing for a norm needed to be word of mouth from criminal to criminal so that the FBI could avoid any claims of entrapment. So they needed Microsoft. They needed criminal influencers so that it was authentic and like, you know, couldn't be traced back to them. So whenever they heard plans of violence, they would send a tip to a foreign agency who would usually send a random surge or patrol. Like car that way. So like to make sure that whoever was supposed to be hit for, you know, that discount.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 53:19Laci Mosley?

  You know, not his, get the 10 one free.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 53:21Laci Mosley?

  They would make sure they were in front of their house. With Microsoft, the FBI decided they wanted to screw him towards the end. They were going to play God and just make everything he did fail. Remember he had, oh, he had the Swedish cottage and then he had all of those drug, you know, sales and deals.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, rebound deals.

• 53:43Laci Mosley?

  Yes, they had them all fail, but they never like picked his ass up because now they're just having fun. They're having a good time.

• 53:53Laci Mosley?

  F is for friends who do stuff together. D is for bureau. I is for anywhere and anytime at all.

• 54:04Speaker 03

  They also had to be like, oh, no, don't pick him up. Maybe next time he'll realize that it's the phone.

• 54:11Laci Mosley?

  They started laughing.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  Let him do, oh, my God, he did it again.

• 54:14Laci Mosley?

  I know they were looking at their computer.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  When is he gonna figure out it's his fucking phone?

• 54:18Laci Mosley?

  It probably became a drinking game. They were like shots for when he tried doing another drug bill. Oh, we lit, we lit. No. So they did all of this so that Microsoft would start scrambling and reach out to more friends and risk more to incriminate more people, which he did. Remember, he sent that little emoji and was like, oh, can y'all give me some more crimes to do, cuz all my crimes getting busted, bestie.

• 54:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:44Laci Mosley?

  Damn. So after three years, Anam was working too well. The millions of incriminating texts required too much manpower. So the FBI decided to just end the operation, start arresting people. So then they got lazy again. They were like, okay, we got.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  It's too much work. Let's just arrest them.

• 55:02Laci Mosley?

  I, I hope all the people who were late movers on Anam stayed safe cuz it's like you just got handed your phone. You were just about to turn it on and they started gathering everybody up.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:14Laci Mosley?

  There were over eight hundred arrests made. Most criminals didn't even know it was Anam behind it until the press conference. Microsoft escaped, though, and was on the run for six months. They had this wanted poster of him, Maximilian Rifkin. And not these like selfies like, hey, boo. You trying to do crime? Here's the time. Join my Microsoft team.

• 55:38Speaker 03

  Five million dollars.

• 55:39Laci Mosley?

  Criminal enterprise.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Up to five million dollars.

• 55:42Laci Mosley?

  Five million.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  Why is it up to? That seems shady.

• 55:45Laci Mosley?

  That is shady as fuck because what do you mean up to? If I catch a little Microsoft and his teams, I want five million. What i- i- is it like if I, would I gotta be with him at the time to get the five million? What's the caveat? That's shady. See, that's why you don't turn me away.

• 56:02Speaker 03

  If you, if, if we catch him on a weekend, it's only four million dollars.

• 56:06Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, cuz then we had to do OT. So it's really gotta be like a Monday, nine AM.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:12Laci Mosley?

  And also like, how much mileage? How far do we have to drive or fly? Cuz we gonna take that out of the five mil. We'll go take that out.

• 56:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:22Laci Mosley?

  He was caught with one of his co-conspirators who was also on the run, started posting Google reviews for local restaurants in Turkey using his real name. Now,

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Oh, boy.

• 56:32Laci Mosley?

  I appreciate the benevolence of leaving a review so people know where to go and not, but if you're on the run, I just feel like you shouldn't be yelping.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly. Just stay off the Yelp, Maxie.

• 56:44Laci Mosley?

  Maxie, tell your homies to stay off the Yelp.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  All right, don't just make up a name, you know?

• 56:51Laci Mosley?

  Or don't, like.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:53Laci Mosley?

  You guys, sometimes you gotta just let things go. So local law enforcement were able to track him from the Google reviews and find them both. In November twenty twenty-three, Microsoft was arrested in Istanbul by Turkish police. And while his fate remains unclear, he seems to be sitting in a prison somewhere in Europe.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  Hmm. And we don't know exactly where?

• 57:15Laci Mosley?

  We don't know.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 57:17Laci Mosley?

  Somewhere over the Robbo.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:22Laci Mosley?

  Rainbow.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  I'm sure that, and I'm sure that like, like, like, there's gotta be a price on his head at this point. It's not just the law that's looking for him because.

• 57:32Laci Mosley?

  That's probably why they're not saying where he's located. Because if you take eight hundred people down as a criminal influencer.

• 57:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 57:41Laci Mosley?

  This is worse than that pink sauce lady or other people who were like, I got something for y'all. And then, you know, it didn't work out. They're gonna get you for this.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  Right.

• 57:51Laci Mosley?

  Cause you, they probably wouldn't have gotten caught, not eight hundred of them, if they hadn't listened to your influence.

• 57:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:00Laci Mosley?

  You know, I don't have all the details, Microsoft, but right now I'm kind of, ah, I'm teetering. You should have been a smarter criminal. I wanna be on your side.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  I hope he's listening, that somehow, you know, wherever he is and whatever jail.

• 58:15Laci Mosley?

  And we won't tell, we'll never tell.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  We would never tell. It's Estonia. Um.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  But, uh, yeah, I hope he's, he's listening to this.

• 58:27Laci Mosley?

  And I hope he's learning.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  What if, what if he was listening to this podcast was his, you know, crime school? Wouldn't you feel bad?

• 58:35Laci Mosley?

  No, he got it too late.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  You were teaching him to do the scam.

• 58:39Laci Mosley?

  Why did I say I feel bad? Cause he got it too late?

• 58:42Speaker 03

  No, because, no, because you're, you know, this, I'm sure that people listen to this podcast, both because they don't like scams, but I think there's also people looking for tips.

• 58:54Laci Mosley?

  We've given out a lot of tips. We've given out a lot of tips.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, right now, there's probably, somebody, the FBI is making their own beeper company. Just because they heard us talking about it.

• 59:05Laci Mosley?

  I hope nobody from the F to B and the I is listening, okay? Because I want y'all to get back to beeper. It's like, let's keep it simple and cute. Carrier pigeons, like, put a little backpack on them or something, child. I don't know what to tell you, but this is not it. Go back to Deep Throat. Me and parking lots and parking garages. Like, let's be serious, because y'all are getting lazy with this, like, technology stuff. It's too much of a footprint. I can't believe that the FBI, the FBI and the I made this up. And then also, the FBI and the I was so lazy, because, yeah, you caught eight hundred criminals, but you could have just kept this going and just kept scooping people up. But y'all were like, oh, we tired now. It's eight hundred? How many handcuffs do we have, John?

• 59:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:43Laci Mosley?

  It's always somebody in the FBI named John. John, how many cuffs do we have? I'm tired.

• 59:48Speaker 03

  I also think that, I mean, there had to be an end to this. It couldn't go on forever. Like, eventually, somebody-

• 59:54Laci Mosley?

  That's what law enforcement should do, but they want, they want to get promotions. They want to get some credit. So they gotta come out and tell everybody.

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I think that once the ruse is up, it's up.

• 1:00:06Laci Mosley?

  But it wasn't up. They quit because they were tired.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  Would they said that, but it could also, you know, but they would have, say it got to be a thousand, you know, people. Like, at some point, somebody was gonna figure it out.

• 1:00:21Laci Mosley?

  On the streets like it is, you know, like, I mean, I keep seeing all these funny memes that are like, white people dancing on beat, and it's like, back when cocaine was good or pure. And it's like, drugs aren't what drugs used to be. They, on the street, they used to be trustworthy. And now, they'll kill you because they're cutting everything with everything. So-

• 1:00:44Speaker 03

  That fentanyl, yeah. It's that fentanyl.

• 1:00:46Laci Mosley?

  It's that fentanyl. Like, you know, back in the day when they were doing it, and it was just Coca-Cola.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Laci Mosley?

  From Colombia. Like, that-

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 1:00:56Laci Mosley?

  And then I'm like, I'm not gonna yuck your yum. But now it's killing people who didn't expect to be killed. They thought they were gonna have a high, and then they went to the most high in the sky. So- I would like for them to keep those kinds of drugs off the street.

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  I would too. I mean, I don't think there's a lot of people out there advocating for fentanyl.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  More fentanyl.

• 1:01:20Laci Mosley?

  But the thing is, fentanyl's used in hospitals. I've had fentanyl in a hospital. And when they told me they were giving it to me after my fibroid surgery, me and my auntie were looking like, uh, fentanyl? Are they trying to murder us? Like, what? And they're like, no, we're a hospital.

• 1:01:37Laci Mosley?

  It actually, it can be used by people who are not amateur pharmacists. I was like, oh.

• 1:01:44Speaker 03

  Is it a tranquilant? Like, is it, does it put you under or is it a painkiller?

• 1:01:48Laci Mosley?

  Ten times stronger than heroin or like more str- I'm not gonna, don't quote me on that, but it's way stronger than, um, other opioids and it's cheaper. So they've been using it to cut drugs because it's cheaper. And I'm like, can't you go back to baking soda or just like, I don't know, sell the drugs like it used to? I can't, the, the, the economy has got crazy.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, it's an analgesic, so it's a painkiller?

• 1:02:14Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  Oh, it's similar to morphine, but fifty to a hundred times more potent?

• 1:02:19Laci Mosley?

  And I said ten, it's fifty to a hundred.

• 1:02:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:21Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, see, that's what's gonna do it. That's insane.

• 1:02:25Laci Mosley?

  I mean, like, in the scope of this, how do you feel? Like, I kind of feel like, I, Microsoft is dumb. Um, but at the same time, like with the economy of drugs right now, pull them off the streets. Uh, good job F to be in the eye. I'll never say that again, probably, but I don't know how I feel.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty clever for the fucking FBI, although.

• 1:02:55Laci Mosley?

  They're not that clever.

• 1:02:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, it, it, when you, you know, when you find out the extent of the story, it really was, uh, whatever. Afgho, it was Afgho's idea, you know, like Afgho brought it to the FBI, yeah, which is, you know, I don't think that the FBI thought about, you know, like that, but.

• 1:03:15Laci Mosley?

  That's why they couldn't pronounce the name of the app or the phone.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, it, it is interesting, though, that I wonder if there's like, they have other ideas like this. You know, if this like opened their mind to other ways to like create sort of tech. Tech entrapment.

• 1:03:33Laci Mosley?

  I kinda doubt it. I don't think, like, I honestly think most people who work in law enforcement are just haters who were never respected enough in high school and now they just wanna hate on people and have power, um, in the easiest way possible. So Afgov was the one who brought this to them. That's why he couldn't pronounce the name of the damn phone when he's doing his press conference, taking all the damn credit, knowing damn well it was Afgo who did it.

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  Yep, it was Afgo.

• 1:03:59Laci Mosley?

  But we've reached the end of this podcast. I always ask, Andy, where would you like to be found? Social media, anything you wanna plug, any shows, anything like that?

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  Sure, uh, well, I have a podcast, Three Questions. Um, I also do, uh, for Sirius XM, I do a call-in show that's cleverly named the Andy Richter Call-In Show.

• 1:04:22Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Uh, that's on, uh, Wednesdays, um, at, at one o'clock, uh, LA time, uh, four o'clock Eastern. And that one is just, that's, that's probably one of the most fun parts of my week, uh, cause I just, uh, me and a guest host just take calls based on different topics like dating disasters or I got, uh, Vic Michaelis coming in this week and we're just doing holiday stories, you know, people calling with.

• 1:04:50Laci Mosley?

  She's so funny.

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  You know, just calling like, you know, the time that their uncle, you know, dropped the turkey or, you know, drunken family brawls, you know, all that stuff. And, um, and I'm on, and, uh, I, I closed down the Twitter account. I couldn't do that anymore, uh, but I'm on Blue Sky and I like Blue Sky and I'm on Threads too, but, uh, I like Blue Sky. Blue Sky has more of a feeling of like, you know, people going there to tell jokes and be funny and, you know, and get in, yeah, get a little bit more, get some information, but mostly just have fun, mostly just.

• 1:05:25Laci Mosley?

  Like what Twitter was in the beginning.

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. Yeah. That was, and that's, that's all I really, I mean, that's what I want out of social media, especially now that I've retired from any political commentary. I say before, probably posting something later today complaining about politics, so.

• 1:05:44Laci Mosley?

  Well, Andy, can I tell you, like, everyone on the congregation who's been listening recently knows that I've been really, really tired. I've been really overworked, but talking to you and seeing your face. It really made this so fun and so easy to do because you're such a kind soul. And I didn't realize how much I've missed you. So y'all, Andy makes great stuff. And if you don't know, which you already should know, because he is a legend. If you don't know young Gen Z's and, you know, girlies and Gen A's, like, get into it because, like, top tier, top tier, always.

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 1:06:20Laci Mosley?

  Thank you so much for blessing the show. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. If y'all want to find me, D I B A L A C I, Diva Lacy, on all platforms. If you want to see the pictures from the show, Scam Goddess Pod on all platforms. If you want to talk to me, you know, I mostly do that on Twitter at Scam Goddess Pod. But the photos and stuff will be on the Scam Goddess Pod Instagram. Y'all, my book, obviously out. Y'all bought up those hundred signed copies so damn fast that when I get back to L.A., I'm gonna do more. And my hand will be hurting. And I'm probably gonna complain in some of your books. I'm gonna probably complain about it.

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  Like, numbers eighty to one hundred will just be your initials.

• 1:06:59Laci Mosley?

  No, I'm gonna sign them all with a complaint.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  All right, all right.

• 1:07:02Laci Mosley?

  There were some even in the first round where I was like, my hand is cramping. I will be suing for damages. And then I signed my name. Like, we go fight. But I will do it. I will do it. Going Dutch, January 2nd on Fox. My show Scam Goddess, that is like the live version of the show. It's a little different than this. It's kind of intense, but it's also still very funny. That'll be February 25th on Hulu and Disney Plus worldwide. Please, get the book. And I love your emails about the book. I love your DMs. I love the posts. Like, it really warms my heart and it's kept me going. So I thank you all so much, just like I thank Andy Richter for keeping me going. Because I just got off of work and had to come home and do more work.

• 1:07:46Laci Mosley?

  And it's challenging, but people like you make it so much easier. So thank you so much, Andy.

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  Oh, you're welcome, Lacey. This has been a real joy. And I look forward to seeing you when you get back to the good old U.S.A. Unless you decide to stay in Ireland.

• 1:08:01Laci Mosley?

  Hit in your car or nothing. Listen, I went on some dates. I'm trying to get some citizenship, okay? Liam don't know, we in love. Like, we gonna have to get married this week. He don't know, but we, we in love.

• 1:08:14Speaker 03

  Right. Find somebody, anybody. Let them know.

• 1:08:19Laci Mosley?

  Thank you so much, Andy, for being here. I really appreciate it. You are such a king. And also, thank you to Jack Pineda for researching this episode. This was fire. All right, congregation. I want y'all to stay a-nabi.

• 1:08:43Laci Mosley?

  This has been an Earwolf Production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, aka Scam Goddess. Our producer is Scott Zani, and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is done by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.

• 1:09:03Speaker 05

  Cash Flow Crunch, OnDeck's small business line of credit, gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection,

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:10:34Speaker 07

  This is Iris Palmer from Against All Odds with Iris Palmer. You know it's the holidays when somebody in the family starts cooking before the sun. comes up. The pupusas are grilling in the pan. Everybody's sneaking bites and somehow there's always room for one more person at the table. And nothing goes better with that first holiday plate than a delicious Coca-Cola. That crisp, refreshing taste makes everything that much better. Because the best holiday traditions aren't just about what we're eating. They're about who we're sharing those moments with. So check that shopping list twice. Stock up on Coca-Cola for all your family fiestas y disfruta Coca-Cola.