Pod Insights Scam Goddess The E-Book Evil Twins w/ Mano Agapion & Oscar Montoya About this episode Musky Seattle gays, Target drama, and a pair of good-looking evil twins hawking “legal” courses and sketchy e-books collide in this hilarious episode. Laci is joined by actors, comedians, and besties Mano Agapion and Oscar Montoya (Drag Her! A RuPaul’s Drag Race Podcast) to break down and learn how to "make money" through the Mikkelsen twins’ online program. Stay schemin’!
Listen to Drag Her! A RuPaul's Drag Race Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
CON-gregation, catch Scam Goddess LIVE in a city near you.
Keep the scams coming and snitch on your friends by emailing us at [email protected] .
Follow on Instagram:
Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod
Laci Mosley: @divalaci
Mano Agapion: @manoagapion
Oscar Montoya: @ozzymo
Research by Kathryn Doyle
SOURCES
https://www.vox.com/culture/24128560/amazon-trash-ebooks-mikkelsen-twins-ai-publishing-academy-scam
https://trevorsomerville.com/who-are-the-mikkelsen-twins/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1aiwdu3/liar_mikkelsen_twins_full_of_bs_from_the_very/
https://www.inc.com/magazine/202309/eric-hagerman/how-mikkelsen-twins-built-a-50-million-a-year-business-around-one-product.html
https://www.wired.com/story/scammy-ai-generated-books-flooding-amazon/
Transcript 15,083 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:21 Laci Mosley? What is poppin', Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with a comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. We will see along the way, all of us together. And today, we have not one, but two of the besties of the show on the show. You've seen them and you've certainly heard them. One is a TV writer, comedian, and actor. The other is, as well, the same. Okay, come on, besties. Except for the twist of also being a hip-hop dancer. Yes. Together, they host the hilarious and fun podcast, Drag Her, a podcast that breaks down episodes of RuPaul's Drag Race as our Drag Race herstorians. And they really do know their shit. It's crazy.
3:04 Laci Mosley? You've seen their work on The Chicken Sisters, Pretty Smart, Minks, Dimension 20, Wizards Beyond, Waverly Place, and so much more. Congregation, please welcome back Mono. And I'm about to fuck up your last name and I don't know why.
3:18 Speaker 06 I don't care. Just do Mono.
3:19 Laci Mosley? Say it. No, no.
3:21 Speaker 06 I don't care. Just go for it.
3:23 Laci Mosley? Is there a gap in?
3:23 Speaker 06 Yeah, that's correct.
3:24 Laci Mosley? I haven't said it so long, I got insecure.
3:26 Speaker 06 There's too many vowels in it.
3:27 Laci Mosley? And it even is phonetically here. And I've been trusted.
3:30 Speaker 06 No, there's too many vowels in the name.
3:31 Laci Mosley? And Oscar Montoya to the show.
3:34 Speaker 07 And that's how you say it.
3:35 Speaker 06 That was a great intro. Thank you.
3:37 Laci Mosley? That one, that one I've said it recently.
3:38 Speaker 07 Yeah, I want to clip that intro and then use it for...
3:40 Speaker 06 Everything.
3:41 Speaker 07 Everything that we host.
3:42 Speaker 06 My morning.
3:43 Speaker 07 Literally.
3:43 Laci Mosley? I love a good intro because I feel like it's like we get to hear our own eulogies. And that's really cute.
3:48 Speaker 06 And we should be present at them.
3:50 Laci Mosley? We should.
3:51 Speaker 06 I'm gonna do a funeral party one, pretty soon, honestly.
3:53 Laci Mosley? Yeah, because funeral for the living just doesn't seem fair. Like, I want to be there. I want to see all sad. I want to see...
3:59 Speaker 07 I know, right? You sitting on a giant, like, throne, watching everyone just cry.
4:04 Laci Mosley? That might have to be my next scam. Is just fake my own death. Because it's gotta be real. I gotta know how people really come in.
4:10 Speaker 07 That's true. That's the ultimate scam. You faking your own death.
4:15 Speaker 06 Who would come and...
4:16 Laci Mosley? Who's trying to steal my, my assets? You know?
4:19 Speaker 06 Who would come and be like, guess what? I'm glad she's gone. And then like, like, and then you get to look at them in the face and be like, guess what? I'm back.
4:29 Laci Mosley? No one would do that.
4:30 Speaker 07 You fly down from the chandelier. Surprise.
4:33 Laci Mosley? I might have to do it, like, have a plant person there to do that, just so my entrance can be that more dramatic. What you say about me?
4:43 Speaker 06 That'd be good.
4:44 Laci Mosley? Oh, well, you know, we always ask on this podcast, what is your relationship with scams? I haven't had you guys in a while.
4:50 Speaker 06 I know.
4:50 Laci Mosley? So, I mean, I feel like the scams have just gotten bigger and bigger. And people are getting more and more innovative. So, yeah, what's your relationship now? Have you seen any, run any, any that you particularly admired or hated? Anything?
5:02 Speaker 06 Well, we both, just recently on our podcast, on the patron, uh, sorry, the Patreon.
5:07 Laci Mosley? Patreon.
5:09 Speaker 06 We gave a lot of shoplifting tips to our listeners.
5:12 Speaker 07 Well, yes.
5:13 Speaker 06 Well, yes.
5:14 Speaker 07 Well, yes, I got caught shoplifting.
5:16 Speaker 06 I didn't know if she was an out or so.
5:18 Speaker 07 Well, I'm gonna do, hey, listen, I don't shop at Target. I steal from Target. Yes, I stole from Target.
5:24 Laci Mosley? Okay, but that's a place where you should steal.
5:26 Speaker 06 You should steal everything.
5:28 Speaker 07 Listen, I'm not like ground.
5:29 Speaker 06 Fuck you, Target.
5:30 Speaker 07 It's not groundbreaking news.
5:31 Laci Mosley? But you know they dangerous, though.
5:33 Speaker 07 Well, no, I didn't know that until.
5:35 Laci Mosley? They got surveillance, like, the handmaid's tail.
5:37 Speaker 07 Literally.
5:38 Laci Mosley? Under his eye.
5:39 Speaker 07 Literally.
5:40 Laci Mosley? That's what the bullseye is. Oh, my God, it's his eye. It's his eye.
5:44 Speaker 07 It's his eye.
5:44 Laci Mosley? The bullseye, they was trying to tell us.
5:46 Speaker 07 The snipe was ready for me. So I went in there and I was like, I was like, oh, I need some vitamins. I just recently moved and the only thing nearby was a Target. And I was like, I'm gonna go in there, I'm just gonna steal some vitamins, like, it's not a big deal.
5:59 Speaker 06 Honestly, great. It's a great steal because it's expensive and small.
6:02 Speaker 07 It's so expensive and it's super tiny. And I, and I brought a little bag, I'm like, it's gonna be fine. I walk in there and I run into an old student of mine.
6:10 Laci Mosley? Oh, no.
6:11 Speaker 07 Talking, yeah.
6:12 Laci Mosley? Not too bad of a role model.
6:16 Speaker 07 I'm literally chatting away with him and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I take.
6:20 Speaker 06 Because they also think teaching improv makes you rich. Like, they're like.
6:23 Speaker 07 Of course, they're like, clearly, they have money.
6:25 Speaker 06 You teach at UCB?
6:28 Speaker 07 Now, that's a scam, baby. Now, that's a scam. And so, you know, I, I, I had the vitamins in my bag. I was like talking to my old student and I'm like, okay, all right, bye, I gotta go. And I walk out the door and this manager steps right in front of me.
6:46 Laci Mosley? Did the student see?
6:47 Speaker 07 Oh, of course.
6:47 Laci Mosley? No, no.
6:48 Speaker 07 Well, of course.
6:49 Laci Mosley? No.
6:49 Speaker 07 Everyone saw.
6:50 Speaker 06 I didn't know that part of the story.
6:52 Speaker 07 And she was like, stop. And I said, what? And I knew immediately, it was like a fucking hell. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? And then I tried to leave, being like all confused. And then two-
7:04 Speaker 06 Cause you had your headphones on.
7:05 Speaker 07 Yes.
7:05 Speaker 06 And at first you were like, what?
7:06 Speaker 07 Yeah, I was like, this can't be real.
7:08 Speaker 06 No, thank you.
7:10 Speaker 07 And then two cops show up, or security officers, whatever.
7:13 Laci Mosley? Sure.
7:13 Speaker 07 Um, and they're like, come with us. And I said, me? I get to see the back of the store?
7:23 Laci Mosley? I would be a little curious as well.
7:24 Speaker 07 Like an 11-year-old child that did a naughty thing? I said, okay, this is gonna be fun.
7:29 Laci Mosley? Okay.
7:29 Speaker 07 So I walked, cause I'm like, I stole, I stole like $40 worth of, it's not a big deal. So I walk back.
7:37 Speaker 07 I'm like, I feel my student's eyes on me as I walk towards the back. And I was like, this is so embarrassing. Um, I go to the back and then they're like, show, show us your bag. And I was like, what, what do you mean? They're like, show us your bag, show us your bag. And then one of the security guards just grabs my bag and opens it up. And I was like, I don't think that's allowed.
7:54 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
7:54 Speaker 07 And he takes the vitamins. And I was like, oh my gosh, did I put the, I'm sorry, I'll pay for them. It's okay, I, don't worry. And they were like, it's too late. And I could tell the manager was feeling a little zesty with that. She really was like, I caught one.
8:09 Laci Mosley? I'm still in the store.
8:10 Speaker 07 She was having a blast with me.
8:13 Laci Mosley? Also, I have accidentally put something, I know that was not your intention.
8:15 Speaker 06 Well-
8:15 Laci Mosley? But it's like, you haven't been there before. You haven't stolen from this place before. Usually Target likes to build a case.
8:21 Speaker 07 Well, actually I have.
8:22 Laci Mosley? Okay, well then they might have been building a case, babe.
8:24 Speaker 06 They were building a case.
8:25 Laci Mosley? They might have been building a case, babe.
8:27 Speaker 07 Which I didn't know, but apparently-
8:28 Speaker 06 They were building a mystery.
8:28 Laci Mosley? Yeah, they let you get away with it for a little bit, you gotta switch stores.
8:31 Speaker 07 And that's the actual scam.
8:33 Speaker 06 Switch stores.
8:34 Speaker 07 But no, there's like a, it's a whole database. It's a whole database, so listen.
8:39 Laci Mosley? Oh, that facial recognition.
8:40 Speaker 06 Like once you hit 750, like-
8:42 Laci Mosley? Yeah, they're looking for misdemeanors, they're looking for, yeah.
8:45 Speaker 07 And so they were like, oh yeah, blah, blah, blah. Um, you stole these vitamins. And then she got really like, what are you gonna do with these vitamins? Were you selling them? Were you trying to sell them? Were you selling them illegally? You were gonna sell them illegally.
8:56 Laci Mosley? What?
8:56 Speaker 07 And I was like, wait.
8:57 Laci Mosley? I'm talking vitamins on the street?
8:58 Speaker 07 What are you talking? I'm like, who is doing that?
9:01 Laci Mosley? That's how bad American healthcare is. I kinda understand what she's saying.
9:04 Speaker 07 Literally.
9:05 Laci Mosley? She's like, I got them one a day, I got them one a day.
9:07 Speaker 06 Bitch, how much do you think B12 is worth on the street?
9:10 Laci Mosley? That is so true.
9:11 Speaker 07 The black market vitamins.
9:12 Laci Mosley? Energy and vitality or no?
9:13 Speaker 07 Seriously.
9:15 Laci Mosley? I got a dollar a bean.
9:16 Speaker 06 Vitality.
9:20 Speaker 07 So she, yeah, they were screeching me. I was like, I didn't know this was happening. Like, I didn't know I could make up. I said, maybe, actually. Uh, but I was like, no, no, no. Uh, and then she's like, she made me sign all this paperwork. And then they took pictures of me. They took six pictures of me from all angles. And I said, oh, my gosh. And then she was like-
9:39 Laci Mosley? My truck got they own for private prison.
9:43 Laci Mosley? They got people locked up that day?
9:45 Speaker 07 They might. And then they said, they were like, you're banned from Targets, all Targets for a year. And I was like, I chuckled because I was like, a year? And I, and my, my whole attitude was like, this is so silly. Like, I was like, okay, fine, whatever. Like-
9:58 Speaker 06 That is funny because capitalism-
10:00 Speaker 07 But she was not happy with that. She wanted me stressed. She wanted me shusha shaking.
10:06 Speaker 06 Right.
10:07 Speaker 07 She wanted me pleading.
10:08 Speaker 06 The fear of God.
10:10 Speaker 07 You know, I could arrest you right now if I wanted to. And I was like, no, you can't. And she's like, yes, I can.
10:16 Laci Mosley? Do a citizen's arrest?
10:18 Speaker 07 She was so mad that I wasn't like pleading for my life. I was like, okay, girl, whatever.
10:24 Speaker 07 And then she just let me go and I walked out. I was like, Lord, not me getting-
10:28 Speaker 06 Being a country- Being a country little thief is really funny.
10:33 Laci Mosley? I do think that's amazing.
10:33 Speaker 07 But I wasn't even being country. I was just like, okay, you caught me, girl. Bye. Can I go now? I wanna go.
10:39 Laci Mosley? Do you own the country you're living in? You want me to be in physical distress about this?
10:42 Speaker 07 Literally.
10:43 Speaker 06 Also, like, come back in a year. It's so funny of like, okay, so we're still doing capitalism. It's like, we want your money.
10:48 Speaker 07 Yes, exactly.
10:49 Speaker 06 In 365 days.
10:51 Speaker 07 You did a bad thing.
10:52 Speaker 06 Yeah.
10:52 Speaker 07 Time out for a year.
10:53 Speaker 06 Yeah.
10:54 Speaker 07 But then come back to us.
10:55 Laci Mosley? Come back with money.
10:55 Speaker 06 Give us all your stupid money.
10:56 Speaker 07 Come back with money.
10:57 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
10:58 Speaker 06 Hate that. And I was saying, you, it's, Target's great and easy to steal from because when you go to the self-checkout, you can like, you like boop your card. And then after you boop your card, it's like, oh, do you want to do check or cash? Or do you want a bag? Like, they make you do these other steps after you've already booped your card. So I tell everyone, if you're gonna steal from Target, go boop your card and hit it. Cause then the sale doesn't finish.
11:27 Speaker 07 Cause you've done it, it's worked on you before, yeah.
11:29 Speaker 06 And it's plausible deniability. You can be like, I booped my card, I heard the card go boop, I didn't know it didn't charge me. And it works.
11:38 Speaker 07 The boopage of it all.
11:39 Speaker 06 The boopage. And Target, if you're hearing this, fuck you.
11:41 Speaker 07 Fuck you, Target.
11:43 Speaker 06 Fuck you.
11:43 Speaker 07 Fuck you, Target.
11:44 Speaker 06 You're sponsored by Target.
11:47 Laci Mosley? No, I am not. But it is kind of like a class thing too of like, if you're paying with cash and you don't got boop in on your phone, then like you're kind of like left out of that. That's why I don't like places that are only card. Cause I'm like, that's really classes. Because what if I only have cash? Like, what if I don't have the boop situation? If I don't have an iPhone. You know, I can't boop a flip.
12:06 Speaker 06 You want me to boop my?
12:07 Laci Mosley? But if you can't, I'm gonna say. I'm speaking for the people. I'm gonna just do the boop myself.
12:12 Speaker 06 What did I have?
12:14 Laci Mosley? Keep walking.
12:15 Speaker 06 What was my LG called?
12:16 Speaker 07 You being your own Foley artist?
12:17 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
12:19 Speaker 06 What was my LG called that had?
12:21 Speaker 07 The chocolate?
12:22 Speaker 06 It was not a chocolate.
12:23 Laci Mosley? The Sidekick?
12:24 Speaker 06 It wasn't the Sidekick.
12:26 Speaker 07 How did it, okay, so this is the phone.
12:27 Speaker 06 So it was vertical on this.
12:29 Speaker 07 Did it go like this?
12:30 Speaker 06 And then when you opened it, there was a physical keyboard that went sideways.
12:33 Speaker 07 It's not the Sidekick?
12:35 Speaker 06 I don't think Sidekick, that's Nokia.
12:37 Speaker 07 Okay, on the phone.
12:37 Speaker 06 It looked vertical here. Yeah, you're the phone. Okay, boop, boop, boop. Oh, I got a call. Oh, no, not right now, mom, I'll text you. Then you go, and the keyboard's here.
12:47 Speaker 07 It opens like this.
12:48 Laci Mosley? Okay, what kind of boost mobile situation is this? I ain't never heard of this.
12:53 Speaker 06 I was in, I was in college in the before time. I didn't, when I was in college, there were no iPhones.
12:59 Speaker 07 Oh my god.
13:00 Speaker 06 Isn't that? Fucked.
13:01 Laci Mosley? Wow.
13:02 Speaker 07 Oh, she's ancient.
13:03 Speaker 06 I'm ancient. There was no Grindr.
13:06 Speaker 07 Oh, my God.
13:06 Laci Mosley? Oh, wow.
13:07 Speaker 06 Isn't that crazy? I don't know how I got dick, but I found it.
13:11 Laci Mosley? It was like, were you like Pokemon going in? Or like, you just gotta...
13:15 Speaker 06 Can't you use a master ball?
13:16 Laci Mosley? Y'all had to get on Miss Connections and be like, "I saw you by the water fountain."
13:20 Speaker 06 Miss Connections. Had to go to the gay club. And you had to be using that fishing line. Like, you had to go for it.
13:27 Speaker 07 Were you around in L.A. when Circus of Books was a thing? Because that was a cruisy spot.
13:32 Speaker 06 I didn't do that.
13:33 Speaker 07 Okay.
13:33 Speaker 06 I, I wasn't that...
13:34 Laci Mosley? Was it a library?
13:35 Speaker 06 Circus of Books is like a video and like bookstore that's known to be a gay institution.
13:42 Laci Mosley? Mmm.
13:42 Speaker 06 Because it's like a cruising hotspot for...
13:45 Speaker 07 Yes.
13:45 Speaker 06 All the way going back to the 60s.
13:47 Speaker 07 Mm-hmm.
13:48 Laci Mosley? Wow, historic.
13:48 Speaker 07 But now it doesn't, it doesn't exist anymore, yeah?
13:51 Speaker 06 I don't know, maybe.
13:52 Speaker 07 By the time I moved, there were no Circus of Books.
13:54 Laci Mosley? I feel like Grindr killed Circus of Books.
13:56 Speaker 06 Yeah.
13:56 Speaker 07 Grindr killed a lot of things.
13:58 Laci Mosley? Did.
13:58 Speaker 06 Including romance.
14:00 Speaker 07 It's dead.
14:00 Laci Mosley? Yeah, it's dead. But Mondo, what is your relationship with scams?
14:05 Speaker 06 Okay, I just got scammed.
14:07 Laci Mosley? Oh, no!
14:08 Speaker 06 Hmm, no, this is the, you'll see. This is, this is a light scam. It's not a real scam, it's a light scam.
14:13 Laci Mosley? Okay.
14:13 Speaker 06 I was in Seattle, um, and, which is so insane, I accidentally booked a part playing the gay, the gay, in a Christmas rom-com.
14:21 Laci Mosley? Okay, you accidentally booked it.
14:23 Speaker 06 I'm not even joking with you. I did a table read.
14:25 Laci Mosley? You just walked past somewhere and were like...
14:27 Speaker 07 You, you're gay, be in this movie.
14:29 Speaker 06 You are gay and you love Christmas. You look like a Yuletide gay.
14:35 Speaker 06 I, I did, I did my friend's table read for her movie and they were just like, "I don't know, you are funny. You should do it."
14:44 Speaker 07 Period. That's called being talented.
14:46 Laci Mosley? Yes.
14:46 Speaker 06 Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true. I accidentally killed it. But, so I went to Seattle to film this movie and I was like, "Okay, cool. I'm in Seattle, I'm gonna go be adventurous and meet the gays." And I went to one insane gay night at the Eagle called Jiznasium.
15:01 Laci Mosley? Okay, we're getting to the point. We know what's happening here.
15:04 Speaker 06 Where you have to take your clothes off and you have to...
15:08 Laci Mosley? It's like Kit Catty.
15:09 Speaker 06 Kit Catty, what's that?
15:10 Laci Mosley? So Kit Kat Clubs, where like, you go in and like, there's like a lady, like, with her titties out and she's like, "Get yours out."
15:16 Speaker 06 Ooh.
15:17 Laci Mosley? I was like, "How about a brawl?"
15:18 Speaker 07 I just picture a woman in front of the door with her titties out being like, "How's your turn?"
15:23 Laci Mosley? I was like, um, how about I give y'all, uh, my shirt? She was like, yeah, we'll take this shirt. That's enough. I was bargaining.
15:36 Laci Mosley? I was, I didn't see what was going on. I was in Berlin. I wanted to know what was going on. Berghain was closed at night.
15:41 Speaker 06 Yeah, exactly. That's what I was doing.
15:43 Laci Mosley? Yeah, so you were seeing what was going on.
15:44 Speaker 07 Wait, Lacey, were you mugged?
15:48 Speaker 07 Can you take it off?
15:49 Laci Mosley? Take it off.
15:49 Speaker 07 You're like, okay, I'll give you my top. She's like, okay, great.
15:51 Laci Mosley? Or she first took my jacket, which made sense because it was cold out. So I was like, oh, yeah, coat check. And then as I was trying to keep going, she was like, uh-uh, that too. And I was like.
16:00 Speaker 06 Wait, you want my purse? Kinky.
16:02 Speaker 07 Yeah.
16:03 Laci Mosley? No, they took your phone. They took your phone and everything. But I had cash on me, so I was just like, I tipped her a little extra and was like, hey, make sure none of that happened to my stuff. And she was like, I got you. I got you. And I was like, all right, thank you. Thank you, booby lady. But no, so you go into.
16:17 Speaker 06 Because I've been saying yes to life. I'm like, I'm like, I wasn't really totally myself. If I, you know, I mean, you know, when you go to a city and you're like, I'm not really myself here. I'm going to experiment and try some choices. So I go to Jiznasium and I wear a towel and I meet some new friends.
16:32 Speaker 07 Wait, just a towel, nothing underneath?
16:34 Speaker 06 Nothing underneath.
16:34 Speaker 07 Oh.
16:35 Speaker 06 It was fun. It was flirty, ha, ha, ha, cu, cu, cu. And, um, I meet some very nice goofy friends. They're sweet. They're nice. They're intelligent. They're Seattle gays, right? They like, they're cerebral, they're funny. I was like, oh, you guys are a good time.
16:49 Laci Mosley? So you're like talking current events in the nude?
16:51 Speaker 06 Yeah.
16:52 Laci Mosley? Okay, okay, great.
16:53 Speaker 06 Seattle. That's Seattle.
16:56 Speaker 07 That's just Seattle.
16:57 Laci Mosley? That's true.
16:58 Speaker 06 So whatever, I'm having a great time with them and they're like, come to this rave tomorrow night. And I'm like.
17:03 Laci Mosley? Hey, second location.
17:04 Speaker 06 Okay. But they're like, don't worry, we're going to have like a pre-party before, come to the pre-party before. Okay, I go to the pre-party. Point is, these educated, sweet, fun, nice men that I met the night before, I now realize are the stinkiest people I've ever met. And these men.
17:22 Speaker 07 You're gonna get in trouble with Seattle.
17:23 Speaker 06 I don't give a shit.
17:24 Speaker 07 Oh.
17:24 Speaker 06 These men smell like barnyard animals.
17:27 Laci Mosley? What?
17:27 Speaker 06 Because there's like a moment happening in the queer community where some people are really into musk. Really into musk and body odor.
17:37 Laci Mosley? Okay.
17:38 Speaker 06 And letting it ride. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying one or two days post shower, I'm saying
17:44 Speaker 07 Months.
17:44 Speaker 06 A week or more no shower or no armpit rehab.
17:49 Laci Mosley? Why?
17:50 Speaker 06 And I felt scammed.
17:52 Laci Mosley? I wish, wait, they smelled normal when you met them.
17:54 Speaker 06 I guess they were, all the clothes were off. Or maybe just gymnasium smelled so bad, I didn't realize it.
18:00 Laci Mosley? Okay, cause I'm like, doesn't the body make the smell? Not the clothes, the clothes can make the smell, but if the body's smelling, then the body's.
18:05 Speaker 06 I don't know.
18:06 Speaker 07 Well, the clothes is like a barrier for the smell. It like prevents a lot of the smell.
18:09 Laci Mosley? It starts to absorb the smell and it's also a part of the smell.
18:11 Speaker 07 Then you're drunk.
18:12 Speaker 06 I don't know what happened, but the next day.
18:14 Laci Mosley? Gymnasium, so I don't know, I know what you said it's called.
18:17 Speaker 06 Uh huh.
18:18 Laci Mosley? I'm trying to spare the people with their children.
18:20 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah, we could beep it.
18:21 Laci Mosley? No, no, no, we're explicit, I just don't wanna say it.
18:24 Speaker 06 Some beeps are funny, though, to be fair.
18:27 Laci Mosley? Gyms smell bad, though, so maybe they were trying to be like, we, this is a place of funk.
18:33 Speaker 06 I don't know. I don't know, but I felt scammed, cause I was like, oh, man, I thought we were gonna be friends, now I can't, I can't stand, I can't stand the way you smell, I can't be friends with you.
18:43 Laci Mosley? So you associate sophistication with smell?
18:45 Speaker 07 Uh huh.
18:47 Speaker 06 Am I colonized?
18:48 Speaker 07 That's your prejudice.
18:49 Laci Mosley? No.
18:49 Speaker 07 That's your prejudice ass mind.
18:51 Laci Mosley? I'm the same way, I'm sorry.
18:52 Speaker 07 Decolonize your brain, please.
18:54 Laci Mosley? No, smell is deeply connected to memory, and if you smell bad, I wouldn't, there are some people that I really enjoy in the comedy community, people that I really like that are geniuses that I've worked with afterwards, I'm not gonna say, cause they've been on this podcast.
19:04 Speaker 06 Ooh.
19:05 Laci Mosley? But I'll never forget going into a green room for a show and this person, and I know they were depressed, but this person smelled so bad, so bad that I remember it, this was five years ago.
19:14 Speaker 06 Depression coming out of the corner.
19:15 Speaker 07 And it's a trace memory for you.
19:16 Laci Mosley? It's a trace memory.
19:17 Speaker 06 That's what I'm saying.
19:18 Laci Mosley? So I'm saying, like, I understand where you're coming from, model, you were scammed, they were supposed to be your fun, sophisticated friends, and then they
19:23 Speaker 06 I feel scammed.
19:24 Laci Mosley? They hit your nose like that, and it didn't happen to that.
19:27 Speaker 06 Queer community, if you're listening, I feel scammed by y'all who are like, we're doing this now. Because you're taking up, you're taking up too much space.
19:34 Speaker 07 What the hell?
19:35 Speaker 06 What'd you say?
19:36 Speaker 07 Not silencing voices now.
19:37 Laci Mosley? That's it. Who said that? Who said we doing this now?
19:39 Speaker 06 Who said that?
19:40 Laci Mosley? And you definitely are taking up too much space because an odor does take up space. Now, now you're not just to yourself.
19:45 Speaker 06 Exactly.
19:46 Speaker 07 The stink lines do take space.
19:48 Speaker 06 Your choice is taking up, is taking away my freedom to not smell you.
19:52 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
19:53 Speaker 06 What do you think about musky gays?
19:55 Speaker 07 I thought, I don't care.
19:56 Speaker 06 You don't care?
19:57 Speaker 07 I mean, it's bad. Like, if you smell bad, back off. But I'm not going to those spaces. Do you know what I mean?
20:02 Laci Mosley? I think they can have a safe stinky space. I just need to know. I just need to know.
20:08 Speaker 06 I was encroaching on their safe space.
20:10 Speaker 07 Exactly.
20:11 Laci Mosley? I think you scammed yourself, mom. I think you scammed yourself.
20:14 Speaker 07 You wanted to get scammed. Some people want to get scammed.
20:16 Laci Mosley? You said you're being a different person in a different city, and there you were.
20:20 Speaker 06 There I was, trying to be a stink boy. And I'm not.
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20:57 Laci Mosley? Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party
21:38 Laci Mosley? systems: cloud platforms, data pipelines, AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Anna Paola, a C and Access CIO, Giovanni Doniello, two people who think about these questions every day. Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.
22:23 Speaker 01 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.
22:54 Speaker 02 One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.
22:59 Speaker 01 So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
23:22 Speaker 07 I thought you were going to talk about the pup story.
23:25 Speaker 06 That too.
23:25 Speaker 07 Because that's when you were truly scammed.
23:27 Speaker 06 Here's another scam.
23:28 Laci Mosley? Oh, my goodness.
23:29 Speaker 06 So I'm at this rave.
23:30 Speaker 07 It's the same rave.
23:32 Speaker 06 At this goddamn same rave, whatever. And I'm like, I meet someone who does not smell. And they're funny and cool. I'm like, oh, you took a shower.
23:40 Laci Mosley? Why are you chatting so much during a damn rave? They laugh.
23:44 Speaker 06 That's actually true. Also, the music here was hell.
23:47 Laci Mosley? Climate change is crazy right now. Yeah, where do you be? Like, how do y'all have this conversation?
23:54 Speaker 06 I'm not even kidding. This was the song playing during the rave for 20 minutes. The Chemicals. The chemicals. The chemicals. The chemicals. And I was like, y'all are crazy. So I find one guy, I'm like, oh, like, he's just like a nice, good time friendly, having a nice time, talking about life. Yeah, I was just like, ah.
24:14 Speaker 07 Finally, someone I can relate to.
24:15 Speaker 06 Engaging. Also, a lot of people were on the drugs.
24:18 Laci Mosley? The chemicals.
24:19 Speaker 06 The chemicals. I wasn't on the chemicals. And I was like, okay, this guy is like here right now. You know what I mean? So I was like, I can talk to him, we're having a nice time. And then, in the middle of our nice conversation, I think he smells good, I think he's one of, he's one, he's one of us.
24:34 Speaker 07 One of ours.
24:35 Speaker 06 He pulls out a mask from his back pocket.
24:37 Laci Mosley? Chemicals.
24:38 Speaker 06 It's a pup mask. I don't know if you know what this is, Lacey. It's a pup mask, and he says to me, "Now I'm grunger."
24:51 Speaker 06 And that's when I said, okay, I have to go to Taco Bell.
24:53 Speaker 07 I've been scammed.
24:54 Speaker 06 I have been scammed.
24:56 Laci Mosley? Now, that when you were, you were scammed. He presented like he was just chilling. Right? Y'all was talking over the chemicals. And it was, y'all was having a great time, and then now he's like, no, you can't just whip that out of nowhere.
25:09 Speaker 07 To be a totally different person, too. Grunger.
25:12 Speaker 06 Grunger. I was like, no, bitch, you're a nice white man named Tyler. You're not grunger.
25:16 Laci Mosley? And also, grunger feels like you, grunger, why do you need to be grunger?
25:21 Speaker 06 I don't know.
25:22 Laci Mosley? Why can't you pull out the pup mask and be like, this is something I like to do?
25:26 Speaker 07 Yeah, exactly.
25:26 Laci Mosley? Why you gotta be grunger? What do you do in this alter ego? No, grunger been killing people.
25:31 Speaker 06 What do you do in this alter ego?
25:33 Laci Mosley? No, you had to get away from him.
25:34 Speaker 06 And here's, here's my one, one more canceled opinion I have. Gays, I think we gotta hold off on the pup play.
25:40 Speaker 07 You hate pubs.
25:41 Speaker 06 I think once we have more rights, you can bring out the pup masks. But right now, we gotta, we gotta get our rights. And you're pulling out the pup masks. And you're scaring them. You're scaring the bad people who already don't want to give us stuff. You gotta put away the pup mask.
25:55 Laci Mosley? Okay, but they did it at the place with the chemicals, so like, that was kind of like safe, right? Like, it wasn't like they were at Target.
26:01 Speaker 06 I'm the villain of the story.
26:04 Laci Mosley? I could see your points. I could see your points. You were definitely duped the second time around.
26:08 Speaker 06 This is my fault, though.
26:08 Laci Mosley? The first time, I'm, I'm gonna give it to the, the jizz people.
26:13 Laci Mosley? But the second round, I'm gonna give to you.
26:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, thank you.
26:15 Laci Mosley? You didn't know that grunger was coming.
26:16 Speaker 07 Yeah, grunger didn't present himself until he felt safe and comfortable.
26:21 Laci Mosley? And then grunger showed up to the scene, and that wasn't right. That wasn't right.
26:24 Speaker 06 Thank you. Thank you.
26:26 Laci Mosley? Well, let's move out of this messy ass thing.
26:31 Laci Mosley? It's my favorite part of the show. I don't know today. This is about to be my favorite part.
26:35 Speaker 06 We derailed you.
26:36 Laci Mosley? Oh, no, y'all really came in with the things. Y'all are ready. So I feel a little drag. You know, drag hair is a podcast. I'm like, thank you. So I'm gonna have the chemicals stuck in my head all day.
26:48 Speaker 06 It fucked me up.
26:48 Laci Mosley? But let's get to historic hoodwinkings. This is where I will regale Mono and Oscar with a famous con caper group of criminals. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them, maybe they're silly as hell. We'll see. So, um, Amazon is full of useless eBooks and audiobooks that were clearly generated by ChatGPT and have no reason to exist. Not my book, y'all. Go pick up my book, Scam Goddess. It's very real.
27:11 Speaker 06 Everywhere you find fine literature.
27:13 Laci Mosley? The reason they exist is because of the Mikkelsen Twins, who literally wrote the book on publishing scams.
27:20 Speaker 07 Mikkelsen Twins? I've never heard of these.
27:23 Laci Mosley? And so eBooks and audiobooks, I've never heard of them either, but now we, now we know about them. I hope they address a lot.
27:31 Speaker 06 They're the kind of twins who talk in unison.
27:36 Laci Mosley? Love it. So eBooks and audiobooks. There's a huge underground world dedicated to producing and distributing very cheap, very low-quality eBooks on Amazon, from nonfiction to romance. Books like When the Three Attacks.
27:52 Speaker 06 The Three?
27:52 Speaker 07 The Three.
27:54 Laci Mosley? I don't know, but three is a scary number. I feel like if three, like if the two attack, I'm not that scared.
27:59 Speaker 07 That's fine. The Three?
28:01 Laci Mosley? The four, I know there's some interpersonal fighting between y'all.
28:04 Speaker 06 You can turn them on each other, but Three?
28:06 Laci Mosley? Yeah, but the Three feels very evil and like y'all have been, y'all are witches.
28:10 Speaker 06 It's like the Powerpuff Girls. You don't want to fight all three of them.
28:12 Laci Mosley? No, they was beating Mojo Jojo ass.
28:16 Laci Mosley? He would be down on the ground bleeding and shit and they was like, "Saw more, saw more."
28:19 Speaker 06 He's already dead. He's already dead.
28:23 Laci Mosley? He's already dead, y'all. So, um, other books like Apricot Barcode Architecture.
28:29 Speaker 06 Girl, what?
28:30 Speaker 07 Now, that's on in English.
28:31 Laci Mosley? That's so many things that don't mean anything, but it does get the people going. Like, I'm a little, apricot sounds fancy, barcode, architecture. Like, look at this. Wait if you love me.
28:46 Speaker 06 Whoa.
28:48 Laci Mosley? And it's a picture of a dove looking at me, but also maybe it's also.
28:52 Speaker 07 That's a seagull.
28:53 Laci Mosley? Oh.
28:53 Speaker 07 Lacey.
28:56 Speaker 06 Sorry, Oscar's a bird expert.
28:58 Laci Mosley? Yeah, okay.
28:58 Speaker 06 Oscar knows all the birds.
29:00 Speaker 07 I'm just saying.
29:01 Speaker 06 Excuse me.
29:02 Speaker 07 Once wartime is over, Lacey's releasing a seagull. To symbolize that war's over.
29:10 Laci Mosley? It's immediately pecking me to death.
29:13 Laci Mosley? But yeah, Wait, Wait, You Love Me. That's the title of the book, and then it's a seagull looking at us.
29:20 Speaker 06 I hate this.
29:21 Laci Mosley? And Wait, You Love Me.
29:22 Speaker 06 I hate birds.
29:22 Laci Mosley? I don't know if it's about birds. I don't know if it's about.
29:25 Speaker 07 I don't know either.
29:26 Laci Mosley? Seagull rehabilitation of their image.
29:29 Speaker 06 I think it's about a seagull who falls in love with a human and the human falls in love back.
29:33 Laci Mosley? And the author of this book is Giff?
29:37 Speaker 06 Nope, no.
29:38 Laci Mosley? Zee?
29:39 Speaker 07 It's unpronounceable, honestly.
29:41 Speaker 06 It seems like, I would guess it was Quin T. is my guess, but I'm not an expert on pronunciation.
29:47 Laci Mosley? Quintia?
29:48 Speaker 06 Quinty. It seems like it might be, it might be a Vietnamese name.
29:53 Laci Mosley? Maybe, I don't want to make fun of nobody's name, but obviously this is an AI name.
29:57 Speaker 07 Yeah.
29:57 Speaker 06 Oh, it's an AI name.
29:59 Laci Mosley? So, they're not real books written by real authors. They're made up nonsense using trending keywords to try to get real readers to click on and buy a fake or really, really bad book by mistake. I don't know if Wait, You Love Me with a seagull is gonna get me.
30:14 Speaker 07 You aren't entranced by the cover and the font of the letters?
30:18 Laci Mosley? No.
30:20 Speaker 06 No. Do you think it's for people, because you know, sometimes people fall in love with objects. Have you heard of this?
30:25 Speaker 07 What?
30:25 Speaker 06 People like, it's called objectum sexuality.
30:28 Laci Mosley? Yeah, like people like falling in love with like a pillow.
30:30 Speaker 06 Yeah, or the Eiffel Tower.
30:32 Laci Mosley? Mm-hmm.
30:32 Speaker 06 And then they go and like try to marry it. There's a documentary called like, I Love You, Eiffel Tower, or I Married the Eiffel Tower. Statues, fences, bridges. I know. This is what I'm saying. Guys, put away the pup masks, put away the fences.
30:48 Speaker 07 No nose bounds at all. Wow, crazy.
30:51 Laci Mosley? I'm sorry, I ain't falling in love with no building. That's crazy. I know.
30:55 Speaker 07 And you've seen the Eiffel Tower.
30:57 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
30:58 Speaker 07 And you haven't fallen in love with it?
30:59 Laci Mosley? I've been there. I was on it. Yeah, I was on top of it, and I ain't falling in love.
31:03 Speaker 06 Cover your ears. Building can't make you nut.
31:06 Speaker 07 Cover your ears.
31:07 Speaker 06 Cover your ears, whoever's listening.
31:08 Laci Mosley? Bill, they can't make you nuts.
31:09 Speaker 07 Cover your ears to immediately say, no time to cover any ears at all.
31:14 Laci Mosley? Not even time to turn down the radio. Skip nothing.
31:19 Speaker 07 Cover yours. Bill, they can't make you nuts.
31:21 Laci Mosley? So, so, um, many of these books include misinformation or repackage basic facts from WikiHow. Some of them steal the names from well-established existing authors and pretend to be new releases from those writers. Y'all, I ain't made no Scam Goddess 2, okay? If you see Scam Goddess 2, Electric Boogaloo, that ain't me. That ain't me. That's chat.
31:43 Speaker 06 That is not a Barry Gordy property.
31:45 Laci Mosley? Okay, we ain't make that.
31:49 Laci Mosley? So with generative AI, anyone can create cover images, outlines, and even the text of a really bad book with almost no time and effort and sell it for 99 cents. But even before AI, fake eBooks were a thriving scam area. Now, I will say like 99 cents for like a horrible garbage AI book, I might be curious a little bit.
32:09 Speaker 07 Me too.
32:10 Laci Mosley? What's that got going on?
32:10 Speaker 07 You said it and I was like, but what? 99 cents is not that expensive. I want to see what kind of garbage this AI slop is.
32:17 Speaker 06 Do the sentences sentence.
32:18 Speaker 07 Right, that's the thing. Are they, are they just letters put together or are they actual sentences?
32:23 Laci Mosley? Cause I love a good hate watch. I think I would love a good hate read.
32:26 Speaker 06 Yeah.
32:26 Laci Mosley? I don't want to encourage, so we cannot encourage AI. It's literally killing people in Memphis and pouring out all the water.
32:33 Speaker 06 There's already bad books you can hate read, like Jessica Simpson's autobiography.
32:36 Speaker 07 Oh.
32:37 Laci Mosley? You had that one locked and loaded.
32:38 Speaker 07 Oh my gosh.
32:40 Laci Mosley? Couldn't even cover our ears. Like, boom.
32:43 Speaker 07 Jessica Simpson, I'm coming for that.
32:44 Speaker 06 It's as if it was written by a toddler. It's like, me got scared. Me get married. Like it is.
32:52 Speaker 07 Me made shoes.
32:53 Speaker 06 And then I recommend the audiobook because she can barely read her own audiobook.
32:58 Laci Mosley? I love that for her. Her shoes were good.
33:01 Speaker 06 Oh, they were good?
33:02 Laci Mosley? Yeah. Honestly, you wouldn't have got caught up in Target if you had on some Jessica Simpson's because I ran from the cops many a time in her shoes, okay? Sturdy as fuck, I'm crime offense, I'm not playing, okay? Jessica, you still making them sponsor the show? Give me them chunky ass shoes, and you can wear a heel all night at the club. It was basically a pleaser, but it was comfortable as hell.
33:22 Speaker 06 I love a pleaser.
33:23 Laci Mosley? You know what I mean? Now the bitches want to have a high ass pitch with them ass little fashiony heel. I'm like, where can I go on ease? I take a picture on the carpet or wherever, whatever event I'm at, and then I thought the bitches was like, I give them some publicity, I throw them in my purse, I put some flats on, bitch, are you kidding me? No.
33:37 Laci Mosley? No, I'm an adult. You're not doing that. But, my motto's got a book locked and loaded for you guys if you don't want to spend money on AI.
33:46 Speaker 06 Sorry, it's a fact.
33:47 Laci Mosley? So, in the early 2010s, lots of people wrote real blogs about how to quickly and easily publish a nonsense book to Amazon's ebook platform. They distinguished between schemes that were white hat, where you technically followed Amazon's rules, and black hat, where you actually violated Amazon's term of service. But, it still worked. I don't like this white hat, black hat.
34:07 Speaker 07 It's not sounding good to me.
34:09 Speaker 06 Microaggress.
34:10 Laci Mosley? And I know they used to say the white hat on Scandal, and Olivia Pope was like, "I wear the white hat."
34:14 Speaker 06 What does it mean? I've never heard that before.
34:16 Laci Mosley? It's like, you're supposed to be like, good, like, you're a symbol for good. So, you can, like, "wear the white hat" in quotes, yeah, it's propaganda. You could wear the white hat or the negro hat and do the bad thing.
34:28 Speaker 06 We all know white hat is the worst hat that's ever been made. Right behind red hat.
34:33 Speaker 07 You're gonna commit some crimes with the white hat on.
34:35 Laci Mosley? You talk about that full face white hat.
34:36 Speaker 06 Do you know what I'm saying? That's what, when I hear white hat, that's what I hear.
34:39 Laci Mosley? Yeah, yeah. So, this is more like a cowboy-ish type hat, but it's the same hat.
34:44 Speaker 06 I don't like it.
34:45 Laci Mosley? But, basically, you're massaging the rules versus completely just violating them. And one of the most infamous teachers was a man who went by Luca de Stefani. Or, Big Luca. Now, I, Big Luca.
34:57 Speaker 07 Not actually.
34:58 Laci Mosley? I, Big Book Luca.
34:59 Speaker 06 See, it's a shame. His name is hotter than his face. Oh, why did I just say that?
35:05 Laci Mosley? And the viewers will see this.
35:07 Speaker 06 But why did I just, that just came, okay.
35:09 Laci Mosley? You're flying today.
35:10 Speaker 07 You are messy today, sister.
35:11 Laci Mosley? I am sick. So he claimed to hold the world record for making the most money using Kindle Publishing, like money, the most money using Kindle Publishing in one single day. What set Big Luca's method apart was that he gave his students access to a secret Facebook group where self-publishers organized and they would do like review swaps and buys. So Big Luca basically set up a book crime ring.
35:36 Speaker 07 But he's a, okay, so he's a, he's a teacher.
35:39 Laci Mosley? I mean, he's kind of like a cult.
35:41 Speaker 07 Do students call him Big Luca?
35:43 Laci Mosley? He called himself Big Luca and I think everybody else just had to join in.
35:45 Speaker 07 Oh no.
35:46 Laci Mosley? He was like, you can't join the Facebook group unless you know the password, which is Big Luca.
35:52 Laci Mosley? Y'all will call me this.
35:53 Speaker 06 That's culty, that's, okay.
35:55 Laci Mosley? And it's really, this is kind of smart because it's like, okay, we're all making these fake books and in order to boost all of our books, because people do do this on Amazon, they'll do fake reviews or they'll mail you a fake package that you didn't order. Like, there's all types of ways to make your sales go up and your reviews look more inflated and then the website automatically puts you higher up in the algorithm. So if I were to look up romance book, this shit, uh, what was that single, that single book might slide.
36:21 Speaker 07 Wait, you love me?
36:22 Laci Mosley? Wait, you love me?
36:23 Speaker 06 You, wait, you love me?
36:25 Laci Mosley? It might pop up if enough people have reviewed it.
36:27 Speaker 06 You love me? Also, this should have punctuation, I'm sorry, grammar police.
36:31 Speaker 07 No, but it's creativity, you decide what those words are.
36:35 Speaker 06 Wait, wait.
36:36 Speaker 07 You love me? Wait, you love me?
36:39 Laci Mosley? Wait, you love me?
36:41 Speaker 06 But it's written as.
36:42 Speaker 07 You love me?
36:44 Laci Mosley? Okay, yeah. And the process is here, we're gonna buy it now.
36:48 Speaker 06 Come on, Uda Hoggan. I didn't, I forgot I was in the company of actors.
36:53 Laci Mosley? No, we need it now, we need it now, because I need to know what it's about. So, review swaps were the key, right? To making the self-publishing scam actually profitable when it first began. The more five-star reviews you have, just like I said, it's more likely the Amazon algorithm's gonna push it forward to the readers. If you're mostly publishing bad books, you're not gonna get a ton of five-star reviews organically. But Big Luca's Facebook group gave people running the scam a place to offer swaps, right? And they were selling these five-star reviews for 99 cents each.
37:23 Speaker 07 I'm just looking at Big Luca's face and I'm like, uh-uh, this man is a homosexual.
37:27 Speaker 06 Ooh.
37:28 Speaker 07 There's no way that this man is not.
37:30 Laci Mosley? Look at how his house is decorated.
37:31 Speaker 07 The eyebrows, for one. It's that, it's the, it's the, it's the mouth shape. It's the, it's the eyebrows.
37:39 Laci Mosley? It's the decor for me in the bag.
37:40 Speaker 07 It's the decor.
37:42 Laci Mosley? Like, you got, look at that, yeah, he got a feather plant back there.
37:45 Speaker 07 It's giving homosexual or like closeted. It's like closeted.
37:49 Laci Mosley? I mean, that's why he went for Big Luca.
37:51 Speaker 06 He, truly.
37:52 Speaker 07 How do you go by Big Luca and not be gay?
37:54 Speaker 06 Yeah, and, close your ears, he has a glory hole set up, for sure.
37:57 Laci Mosley? No, oh my gosh.
37:59 Speaker 06 You can beat me as much as you want.
38:01 Laci Mosley? No, I mean, his name's not grand, though.
38:03 Speaker 07 He has a glory hole set up.
38:05 Speaker 06 He has one. Close your ears, close your ears, close your ears.
38:08 Speaker 07 The front door, baby.
38:10 Laci Mosley? Big Luca was...
38:13 Laci Mosley? Y'all need to be stopped. Y'all are diabolical.
38:16 Speaker 06 I forgot, I forgot, this pop, this is a popular huge podcast.
38:20 Speaker 07 Yeah, Mina, we are guests today.
38:22 Speaker 06 We have a small audience, so we don't know what it's like to have, like...
38:25 Speaker 07 We don't know how to behave properly, I'm sorry.
38:26 Speaker 06 We don't know how to behave, okay, sorry.
38:28 Speaker 07 Sorry, sorry, Lacey.
38:29 Laci Mosley? Oh my god. So, Big Luca, Big Luca was on top of the world, right? Selling his scheme as the self-publishing revolution. Then in 2016, a man named Christian Mikkelsen enrolled in Big Luca's course, and the world of scam publishing would never be the same.
38:45 Speaker 07 Oh, he looks like Mr. Beast.
38:47 Speaker 06 He does, but AI. This is AI, this is not a real man, is it?
38:51 Laci Mosley? And just so y'all know in the future, it's Christian Mikkelsen. Like Phil Mikkelsen.
38:55 Speaker 06 Okay.
38:56 Laci Mosley? We got the twins, the Mikkelsen twins, look at them. Now...
38:59 Speaker 06 Huh, they look fake.
39:02 Laci Mosley? They look like it's like what I thought like, like a romance novel man would look like drawn from memory.
39:08 Speaker 06 That part.
39:08 Laci Mosley? Like if Fabio got on Ozempic and I drew him from memory.
39:13 Speaker 06 That part, it's like, um, when the beast becomes man and then he had a gay twin.
39:18 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
39:19 Speaker 06 Yeah.
39:20 Laci Mosley? That's accurate. Y'all see, we're not wrong. We're not wrong.
39:23 Speaker 07 I'm just saying Prince and the pauper. Uh, there's something about like, one of them is poor, one of them is rich, they switch places.
39:29 Speaker 06 Mm-hmm.
39:30 Speaker 07 One of them gets a hair.
39:31 Laci Mosley? I feel like they should both have long hair, like the other guy's making a mistake.
39:34 Speaker 06 Oh, I like the short hair one.
39:35 Speaker 07 Oh, I, no, I think long hair.
39:37 Speaker 06 I like short.
39:38 Speaker 07 Huh.
39:39 Speaker 06 They're both gonna hurt us, like they're both gonna kill us.
39:41 Speaker 07 Of course.
39:42 Laci Mosley? Yeah, they look like murderers.
39:43 Speaker 06 Yeah.
39:44 Laci Mosley? Murderers or models, they got long necks, they could do some modeling.
39:47 Speaker 06 I hate to say that I would, but I would.
39:50 Speaker 07 I love this game, murderers or models.
39:53 Laci Mosley? Murderers or models. Damn goddess, murderers or models edition. So the, the Mikkelsen twins who are named Christian and Rasmus.
40:03 Speaker 07 No.
40:03 Speaker 06 No, ma'am.
40:04 Laci Mosley? Who, why somebody gave Christian and the other one gave Rasmus?
40:08 Speaker 07 Is the long haired one Rasmus?
40:10 Speaker 06 Long haired has to be Rasmus.
40:14 Laci Mosley? But they might as well be interchangeable and are terrifyingly well groomed white men from Denmark.
40:21 Speaker 06 Okay.
40:21 Laci Mosley? Christian found Big Lucas course by Googling how to make money online. He used the method to publish his first ebook called How to Be a 4.0 Student in College Like Me.
40:33 Speaker 06 Okay, oh, okay.
40:34 Laci Mosley? Okay, see, we, they might be models, not murderers. Now, opinions are changing.
40:39 Speaker 07 This is a trick question, cause they're both.
40:40 Speaker 06 We could be murderers. Um, it is both right now for me. Damn.
40:46 Speaker 07 It's giving talented Mr. Ripley down.
40:47 Laci Mosley? Okay, yeah, you could be in the middle, dance all night.
40:49 Speaker 06 Damn, I'm sick though. I, I have a thing for like, when boys look like Ken dolls like that.
40:54 Laci Mosley? Oh, really?
40:55 Speaker 06 Yeah.
40:56 Laci Mosley? That scares me.
40:57 Speaker 07 Deep program that brain in yours now.
40:58 Speaker 06 I know, but the brain is colonized, I'm sorry.
41:01 Laci Mosley? So, this book that he has, that's like, How to Be a 4.0 Student in College Just Like Me, it was 24 pages long and the secret in his case was that he was taking an associate's degree course in exercise science at County College of Morris in Randolph, New Jersey. So a 4.0 wasn't a huge accomplishment.
41:19 Speaker 07 I'm sorry, was that AI? Was that sentence that you read AI? Cause that was crazy.
41:24 Laci Mosley? People be having exercise science degrees.
41:26 Speaker 06 They do, but it does make me laugh because it's like.
41:29 Speaker 07 In New Jersey?
41:30 Laci Mosley? There's like a famous Louisiana football player who plays for the Eagles, who has an exercise science degree. He be putting it to use.
41:35 Speaker 07 What is that? What is that? Is that like to be a PE teacher?
41:38 Laci Mosley? Well, like, like, it's like.
41:40 Speaker 06 Your body's physiology.
41:41 Laci Mosley? Yeah, and working out and like if you like if you bruise like, you know, you shouldn't probably use a thorough gun on that because you're making the bruise worse.
41:49 Speaker 06 Lymphatic drainage.
41:50 Laci Mosley? Yeah. It's like you're not a doctor, but you, you, you know, you, uh, you personal trainer.
41:57 Speaker 07 I would love to see you as a, as an exercise science teacher.
42:02 Laci Mosley? I don't want to disrespect the exercise scientists out there, okay? Because they disrespect y'all and that's not me. I just want y'all to know, separate me from that. Remember me different.
42:11 Speaker 06 Yeah, come fucking DM me.
42:13 Laci Mosley? But he's saying that.
42:14 Speaker 06 What's the science? Run more, sweat more. What's the science?
42:18 Laci Mosley? Same. So I'm also saying here that like his whole tip was just go to a very easy school and you'll be a 4.0 student like me. He, he, he, he, you already bought the book.
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45:03 Laci Mosley? So Christian brought Rasmus, his brother, into the business, and he published a cross-training manual. Together, they published all kinds of eBooks, guides to keto and sex, and crystals, picking the topics and titles based on trending keywords.
45:20 Speaker 07 Of course.
45:21 Laci Mosley? So we have two beautiful men from Denmark. They got sex books, they got keto books.
45:26 Speaker 07 And they wrote this together? They wrote the sex book together?
45:29 Speaker 06 That is creepy.
45:30 Laci Mosley? You know how you write the sex book with your brother?
45:32 Speaker 07 With your twin brother?
45:33 Laci Mosley? Maybe they did it. Maybe they submitted chapters. We're like...
45:36 Speaker 07 They took turns every page?
45:40 Laci Mosley? So to go faster, they hired ghostwriters. Yeah, and once their combined earnings grew to around 3,000 a month, they quit school and moved to Thailand in September of 2017, where the internet was fast and the cost of living was nearly zero. So they could work, you know, technically illegally because you're working out of the country and you're not probably paying Thailand's taxes. And I know a lot of people during 2020 had moved to Thailand and were like, hey, y'all, if you work from home, just move on over to Thailand, go to Phuket.
46:10 Speaker 06 Because you could, it was a tax loophole of some kind?
46:12 Laci Mosley? I don't think it is. I think that they were just doing it illegally. And like the cost of living is so cheap, they were living like in these palatial houses, but like working online.
46:20 Speaker 06 Right.
46:22 Speaker 07 They were criminals.
46:22 Laci Mosley? Yeah, they were criminals. The Thailand government did start getting wind of it because the thing is, is like, y'all can't gatekeep no more. Every time y'all find something good, y'all got happy asses on TikTok with some motherfucking likes. And now y'all can't be over defrauding Thailand's government no more. We could have all been defrauding the government. All you had to do is hit your group chat. We could keep spreading it along. This is why we need chain mail back. Okay? We need to start threatening that you're gonna die in 60 days if you don't send this mail out to 10 of your friends.
46:49 Speaker 06 Oh, I thought you meant medieval kind.
46:52 Speaker 06 What? I was like, I want to hear, I want to hear where this is going.
46:55 Laci Mosley? Okay, that mask really did something to you in the club that traumatized you. I'm telling you, I have a tox-
47:01 Speaker 06 I'm putting on my chain mail right now. Now I'm broke.
47:05 Speaker 06 Scam goddess is gone. You're having flashbacks. You have PTSD. Oh, my God, where are the deodorant?
47:13 Laci Mosley? They ran their manuscripts through Google Translate and started selling foreign language editions, which bumped their income up to six figures. Now, I know how good Google Translate is, and by good, I mean bad.
47:24 Laci Mosley? Who knows what they were reading? Because scammers still try to use this in the emails that they send to fish right now. And it's one of the easiest indicators that it's not from Amazon, you know, with an O, it's from Amazon with a zero, is that there's tons of misspellings. And the etiquette isn't correct. They'll be like, have a blessed day. It's like, Amazon ain't never told me have no blessed day.
47:42 Speaker 06 That's true. That's true. It's so funny when you also look at the email. Or it's like, it says Amazon, but then if you click on what is the email address? It's always like, love 28 DB.
47:52 Speaker 07 Yes, exactly.
47:53 Speaker 06 And you're like, okay.
47:54 Laci Mosley? So shortly after that, right? Amazon blocked their publishing account. And that could have been the end for the twins, but they, no, no, no. They doubled down. So Amazon say, y'all out here faking a funk. Y'all, y'all playing on our names and we're gonna block your accounts. So those who can't do, teach. They started a YouTube channel so that they could teach the business of self-publishing to anyone who wanted to learn with a new focus on audiobooks.
48:22 Speaker 06 Audiobooks.
48:24 Speaker 07 I want to hear what they sound like.
48:25 Laci Mosley? Three seven-hour sessions to record my audiobook. So I'm like, how are y'all doing this?
48:29 Speaker 06 How's it a business?
48:31 Laci Mosley? So after posting a new, I feel like you just gotta make up the audiobook as you go and just be talking on the mic.
48:38 Laci Mosley? Like, don't have no direction.
48:38 Speaker 06 They don't let you do that, right? Cause aren't they like, your words have to be as close as possible to the book?
48:44 Laci Mosley? If you're actually publishing something that's like being published legitimately. But if you're doing self-published, no, you can get in and do whatever you want.
48:51 Speaker 06 Yeah, that makes sense.
48:52 Laci Mosley? So after posting a new YouTube video every other day for about six months, feeding that algorithm, they had a thousand subscribers and they launched their first paywalled online course. They sold it at a 50% discount for $500 the day it launched.
49:09 Speaker 07 No.
49:09 Laci Mosley? They made $48,000 overnight.
49:13 Speaker 07 Who?
49:14 Laci Mosley? People want to make money online.
49:16 Speaker 07 Oh my God.
49:18 Speaker 06 And people, people were so convinced that this would make money.
49:21 Speaker 07 Yeah.
49:21 Laci Mosley? I mean, they have been making money.
49:23 Speaker 07 I think we're seeing a video now.
49:23 Laci Mosley? And we're seeing a little clip of the, the, uh, education right now.
49:27 Speaker 06 That says like 55 minutes, but.
49:28 Laci Mosley? We're not gonna watch out like that.
49:29 Speaker 06 No, no, no. But we, but we see.
49:31 Speaker 04 Official introduction to publishing video. This is going to be an all-in-one crash course to publishing your first book. So if you're looking to publish one or two books and make a few. Extra hundred dollars per month. This video will be your holy bible.
49:48 Laci Mosley? Oh, not the music.
49:51 Speaker 04 And replace your full time income, be able to quit your job and just live off of your publishing business. This video is a great start and I recommend watching this entire video to the end.
50:01 Speaker 07 I'm sorry.
50:01 Laci Mosley? I'm looking at the back of the video.
50:04 Speaker 07 Thank you.
50:04 Laci Mosley? And it's not giving, making extra money.
50:07 Speaker 07 People gave him money despite the background looking like that.
50:11 Laci Mosley? Uh huh.
50:11 Speaker 07 No, people want to be scammed.
50:13 Laci Mosley? Yeah, cuz I'm like, he got close everywhere, but it's not giving.
50:16 Speaker 07 Is that a bad?
50:17 Laci Mosley? It's not giving success.
50:19 Speaker 07 Is that a bad?
50:20 Speaker 06 I can smell him through the, through the video.
50:22 Speaker 07 And what do you smell like?
50:24 Laci Mosley? We know what Mono Lucy smells like.
50:26 Speaker 06 Grungar.
50:29 Speaker 06 Cover your ears, that's all I'm saying.
50:31 Speaker 07 That was him.
50:32 Speaker 06 It's giving grungar. Maybe he is grungar.
50:35 Speaker 07 That was grungar.
50:35 Speaker 06 That was grungar.
50:36 Laci Mosley? So first of course was called Audio Book Impact Academy. I'm gonna say that again. Audio Book Impact Academy. He did put a lot of words in there that sound like impact and academy. That sounds like a place where you're gonna learn stuff. Then he changed it to publishing life. Now that sounds like a positive scheme.
50:55 Speaker 07 Yes.
50:55 Laci Mosley? It's giving herbal life.
50:56 Speaker 07 Yes.
50:57 Laci Mosley? Publishing life, cuz what do you mean publishing life?
50:59 Speaker 06 There's no promise for life.
51:01 Laci Mosley? Everybody said you got one good book in you. Everybody got one good book in them. I don't know if we got a lifetime of publishing in us. Otherwise you might be living like Mono in Seattle.
51:12 Laci Mosley? Then he changed it to AI Publishing Academy.
51:15 Speaker 07 Huh.
51:15 Laci Mosley? But the overall structure stayed the same. So now we're just shifting the goalposts and I can't imagine being someone who was like, okay, I'm gonna join the Audio Impact Academy. And then oh, he's got a new one, AI Publishing Academy. I sign up for both this and that video.
51:28 Speaker 07 Nothing wrong there. Oh, there's a new name every month. Oh, that's, oh yeah, that's totally normal and fine.
51:33 Speaker 06 How do you do your, well, I guess you, do you do your tax? If you have a new name every month, how do you do your taxes?
51:38 Laci Mosley? You think they do what taxes?
51:39 Speaker 07 You simply can't.
51:39 Speaker 06 That's, yeah, I answered my question.
51:41 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
51:43 Laci Mosley? Also, just like, the shell company could still be the same. Let's say they do try to be legit. They're just putting a different name online. And that's just to get the algorithm going. It's like, okay, people getting tired of clicking on this. We're gonna give them something new to click on. So today, it costs $2,000 to take this course. And it starts with a mandatory two-hour webinar, which is just Christian sitting in a dark room, drinking from a water bottle, as he shows you screen caps of his students' royalty checks, and says over and over again that he's already rich. He doesn't need more money, but you, the viewer, do. Now, Christian, you did something smart here. You're sitting in a dark room, so we can't see your dirty-ass room no more. So, trust me, I'm very rich.
52:25 Laci Mosley? I can only see the whites of his eyes and his teeth, trust me. Behind me right now is my pool.
52:31 Speaker 06 I swear. And anyone who's like, "Why do you want to teach me this?" Right. If you're making thousands a month, why do you want me to have a piece of your market?
52:40 Laci Mosley? Yeah, and I also don't trust people who say, "I don't need money." Baby, then why you taking my money if you don't need the money?
52:45 Speaker 07 I think ultimately, people just want to be scammed. I don't know if I'm clicking, paying so much money and watching a video of someone in the dark, telling me that he doesn't need the money you do. I would be like, "Something's not right here."
53:01 Laci Mosley? This is giving cult of personality to me.
53:03 Speaker 06 Of course.
53:04 Laci Mosley? Like, I think people are liking Christian's vibes somehow, and rasmus.
53:09 Speaker 06 Rasmus.
53:11 Laci Mosley? And so, they're like, just hanging out with these people. They're paying $2,000 to feel like they're doing something with their life, and even though they're not really. And they get to also hang out with this bro who seems cooler than them.
53:23 Speaker 07 Yep.
53:24 Speaker 06 It also does give me like, man, what people are willing to believe when a tall, white guy says it.
53:29 Laci Mosley? Oh, yeah.
53:30 Speaker 06 You know what I mean? It's like, "Well, look at him, he's successful."
53:32 Speaker 07 Exactly.
53:33 Laci Mosley? Look at how tall and white he is.
53:35 Speaker 06 I can be tall and white if I do this.
53:37 Laci Mosley? If I keep working hard.
53:38 Speaker 07 If I publish all my novels.
53:40 Speaker 06 Oh, then I'll be tall and white.
53:43 Laci Mosley? I don't know if y'all haven't noticed, as soon as I published that first book, I got whiter. I definitely got taller.
53:48 Speaker 06 I don't know if you noticed.
53:52 Laci Mosley? I'm well on my way.
53:54 Speaker 07 Well on my way.
53:59 Laci Mosley? Y'all gotta catch up.
54:00 Speaker 07 That's turning a little white.
54:02 Laci Mosley? We don't do that malarkey over here, okay?
54:06 Speaker 06 Oh, malarkey. Oh, she said malarkey.
54:08 Laci Mosley? Alright.
54:09 Speaker 06 Oh, she's one of us.
54:10 Laci Mosley? Yes.
54:13 Laci Mosley? So, you know, he keeps you in the dark for two hours. Then he promises to show you how to produce a book without having to write it. AI will write your outline for you. The twins will pick your topic for you, giving you access to keywords, keyword scrapers that have pulled trending topics from Kindle and Audible. So basically, they're saying, we're gonna help you make your AI book. Like, you write that AI outline, then the twins, we're gonna pick just any topic for you. And then, we're gonna put it into the thingamajig that's killing all the black people in Memphis. And we gonna pull some trending topics. Then you send your AI outline to a ghostwriter to turn it into a book for just $500.
54:55 Laci Mosley? So, for 30,000 word of book, right? So that works out to a fee of like .0166667 cents per word, which is very cheap.
55:09 Speaker 07 Yes.
55:10 Laci Mosley? I remember Sex and the City when Carrie would be like, "I'm at Vogue and they're giving me $4 per word." And I was like, "I don't know what this means, but she can have $700 shoes every other day."
55:21 Speaker 07 Right. And before that, Charles Dickens. "They're giving me six tuppence for words." "That's why I'm wearing these Louboutins."
55:31 Speaker 07 "Do you like my tutu?"
55:34 Laci Mosley? So after that, you, like, the Michelsons work with a ghostwriting company. They're called The Urban Writers, and they were developed by two former students. Their ghostwriters get hired on a freelance basis and they're kept anonymous. So they're not gonna go down with this. So that don't even look like a real lady. That looks like an AI lady to me. And they're like, "We write, you win, fast-track your bestseller success."
55:58 Speaker 07 Damn, and they got people with glasses on, so you know they're like, "Oh, clearly, they're nerds."
56:03 Laci Mosley? For sure. And look, the website has a little bit of design to it. Like, look at them circles behind the nerd with the computer. He got the computer in the photo. He like, "I'm typing right now."
56:14 Speaker 07 This is how people type. This is how writers type, with their freaking laptop in their hands.
56:19 Speaker 06 It sounds too good to be true, which means it is. We write, you win. Okay, I just can't. It's too much.
56:26 Laci Mosley? But they got it. The website looks legit.
56:28 Speaker 07 It does.
56:29 Speaker 06 It does.
56:30 Laci Mosley? So let's say you wanted to do this, right?
56:31 Speaker 06 You did.
56:32 Laci Mosley? And you have your manuscript done. The twins will show you how to hire an audiobook narrator for a flat $20 fee by haggling their prices down. They introduce you to a network of people who are generous with their five-star ratings, and they'll push your book up the Amazon rankings for you. All you have to do is sit back and collect your royalty checks as you rake in month after month of passive income. And it's all technically allowed. It just floods the ebook marketplace with garbage, because that's what AI does, is flood our lives with garbage.
57:01 Speaker 07 Yes.
57:01 Laci Mosley? They were like, "Y'all wanna live sadder lives? AI!"
57:04 Speaker 07 Wait, "You Love Me."
57:07 Speaker 06 So, so shit.
57:08 Laci Mosley? Wait.
57:09 Speaker 06 Wait.
57:09 Laci Mosley? "You Love Me."
57:11 Speaker 06 Wait, "You Love Me." Wait, "You Love Me?"
57:14 Laci Mosley? It's a song now. Monos made it a song.
57:16 Speaker 06 Wait, "You Love Me." The chemicals. The chemicals. Honestly, I think I saw the seagull at the rave.
57:24 Laci Mosley? The seagull is definitely at the rave. Before it put on its mask, it was definitely at the rave. Okay, so what makes the Mikkelsen twins special is that they're operating on several levels of grifting here. They're selling their scam method to other scammers, but also scamming them. And to get that free topic for your book, you have to pay for access to the software that analyzes Amazon keywords to tell you what's trending, right? So to create the perfect outline, you have to pay for access to the AI outlines and draft, and then drafts your book for you, right?
57:59 Speaker 06 How do you make money?
58:02 Laci Mosley? Don't worry about that.
58:02 Speaker 07 Where's the money part? Where's the money part?
58:05 Laci Mosley? You have to pay for the cover design and for the reviewers. The $2,000 fee to the Michelsons for the course, right, is supposed to guarantee that you frequent one-on-one calls with a publishing coach. But the coaching calls were mostly about upselling the premium to get the premium $7,800 course. So you get, you get these courses with the $2,000, and they're like, "Get on this course." And they're like, "You know what would be great? If you bought our other course." Because then that's really, really gonna start making the books. Like, that's, you know, have you heard of John Grisham? Yeah, we work with him.
58:42 Speaker 07 You heard of Dan Brown? Yeah, where's the Da Vinci Code?
58:45 Laci Mosley? Where's the Da Vinci Code? What do you think he came up with all that stuff? Definitely AI. Nobody reading books like that about Christian history no more.
58:57 Laci Mosley? Twilight, that was also us.
58:58 Speaker 06 That was us.
59:00 Laci Mosley? I remember, remember I had said sparkly and vampire? And then that's what we got.
59:05 Speaker 07 They said spider and monkey. Uh huh. Where you been? Loca? That's us.
59:09 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
59:13 Laci Mosley? So with that much investment, the 99 cent ebook publishing scheme is probably not gonna make you any money. Yeah, cuz your passive income is 99 cents? A book?
59:24 Speaker 06 No.
59:25 Laci Mosley? In 2018, the twins bought the domain publishing.com, which is where the scam still lives.
59:32 Speaker 07 That's crazy.
59:32 Laci Mosley? Offering a course they say can help students make a lifetime of easy cash off of revenue from books they don't even have to bother to write themselves.
59:40 Speaker 06 But what they've done is not illegal yet.
59:44 Laci Mosley? It's unethical.
59:45 Speaker 06 Sure.
59:46 Laci Mosley? Yes. But technically, they're giving a product. It's the reason why MLMs can exist and aren't prosecuted as Ponzi schemes. Because even though in their structure and design, they are a Ponzi scheme, because they technically do have a product that they're giving you, whether it be moldy leggings that you can't sell, that you mortgaged your house for, or it be classes where there's a man from Denmark in the dark telling you he's rich and upselling you. They still provided the product.
1:00:14 Speaker 06 Wow.
1:00:15 Laci Mosley? Yeah. And that's how you get away with it, cuz think about it, there's so many products. If we were to say like, oh, this product is a scam, then the nuance of that legally becomes really difficult to navigate. Because what if I sell like a friendship bracelet that cost me 30 cents to make, but I sell it for $30,000? Isn't that a scam?
1:00:31 Speaker 07 Yes.
1:00:32 Laci Mosley? But technically, if somebody is willing to purchase that shitty ass bracelet, it's not.
1:00:35 Speaker 07 And you got the bracelet.
1:00:36 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
1:00:37 Speaker 06 It's worth whatever the consumer is willing to pay for it.
1:00:41 Laci Mosley? I know.
1:00:42 Speaker 06 Also, twins are bad.
1:00:44 Speaker 07 I'm saying like, where are, where's the other twin in this? I feel like one twin is doing a lot of the work and the other twin is where?
1:00:51 Laci Mosley? Maybe the other twin on the computer a lot?
1:00:55 Speaker 07 So, that's crazy. For, to be identical twins and for one of them to be the face of the scam? I would feel messed up.
1:01:03 Laci Mosley? Well, I think that's a personality thing. It's like, one of them got, got that gift of gab and the other one's like, alright, send me the link for the AI stuff.
1:01:09 Speaker 06 Right. And then they... The other one is Rasmus.
1:01:13 Laci Mosley? Yeah, Rasmus gotta stay in the dark corner.
1:01:17 Laci Mosley? Don't nobody look up to Rasmus.
1:01:18 Speaker 07 Rasmus is in the dark.
1:01:20 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
1:01:20 Speaker 07 Behind.
1:01:21 Speaker 06 The sun can't touch Rasmus.
1:01:22 Speaker 07 It's just Rasmus going...
1:01:23 Speaker 06 Yeah, I know.
1:01:26 Speaker 06 He's got to eat his fish heads.
1:01:28 Speaker 07 Oh my gosh.
1:01:31 Laci Mosley? That's all he do. Rasmus get on the laptop, do the AI, and, and you know, they throw some fish heads at him.
1:01:39 Laci Mosley? Yeah, I feel like Rasmus eats like... Have you ever seen those gourmet dog TikToks where the person makes the like dog, uh, like a shakurri board?
1:01:47 Speaker 06 No.
1:01:48 Laci Mosley? No? You haven't seen these? Like, the base is like rabbit fur that's been like dehydrated. Then they do like chicken necks and goose necks and liver and, um, it's like all raw, like salmon and fruits and vegetables and stuff. And then they'll be like, eat, and then the dog will just start tearing it up, bones and all. And I feel like that's what Rasmus is, um... I'll put a reference on the Instagram.
1:02:09 Speaker 07 Why? How is that, how's the algorithm found you?
1:02:12 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:02:12 Speaker 07 I don't think you have pets.
1:02:13 Speaker 06 Do you have an animal?
1:02:14 Laci Mosley? No.
1:02:15 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:02:16 Laci Mosley? It's just peaceful to watch the dog eat it.
1:02:18 Speaker 06 Yeah, he gets like a nice time.
1:02:20 Speaker 07 The way you described it, you said tear into, there's nothing peaceful about that.
1:02:23 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
1:02:26 Laci Mosley? I can't explain it. So, their revenue went from around, this is the twins, went from around $300,000 in 2019 to just shy of 50 million in 2022.
1:02:39 Speaker 07 That's crazy.
1:02:40 Speaker 06 Damn.
1:02:41 Speaker 07 The power we give these people.
1:02:43 Speaker 06 I'm so jealous.
1:02:46 Laci Mosley? I am jealous. That was my first thought too, was jealousy. It's 2022, let's all start a scam together.
1:02:55 Laci Mosley? Okay, yeah, we can do this.
1:02:56 Speaker 06 We can, a Shark Tank thing, maybe.
1:02:59 Laci Mosley? The COVID lockdown helped turbocharge the sales. So from about $20,000 a month to blips of $500,000 a month, since a lot of people were stuck at home and were also Googling, "How to make money online."
1:03:13 Speaker 07 The timing, the timing of this.
1:03:16 Laci Mosley? The big boom, 50 mil?
1:03:18 Speaker 07 That's crazy.
1:03:19 Laci Mosley? And y'all got a dirty room at home in the dark.
1:03:21 Speaker 07 Exactly, that doesn't read 50 mil at all.
1:03:23 Laci Mosley? Overhead is low as hell.
1:03:25 Speaker 07 That's so much money. That's probably their mom's house.
1:03:27 Speaker 06 Did they, did anyone make money? Like, did?
1:03:30 Laci Mosley? Well, the twins say that they earned their first million dollars at age 25. Their second million came four days later. Today, they project a luxury lifestyle by always posting to Instagram from private pools and/or exotic beaches.
1:03:45 Speaker 06 The freedom shortcut.
1:03:48 Laci Mosley? There are no shortcuts in life, y'all. Well, you know what? Be white. Is that what the book says?
1:03:53 Speaker 07 I mean, honestly.
1:03:54 Speaker 06 That's a great shortcut.
1:03:56 Laci Mosley? Because like, look, if you're poor and white, or if you know, you're dealing with health problems and you're white, it's still bad.
1:04:01 Speaker 06 Yeah, it's still bad.
1:04:02 Laci Mosley? But, but, you might have a little bit of a head start, at least with your GoFundMe.
1:04:07 Speaker 06 Yeah, you at least get a shoot, you know? In terms of shoots and ladders, you get a shoot.
1:04:11 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
1:04:12 Speaker 06 Not a ladder.
1:04:13 Laci Mosley? No, we getting automatic ladders.
1:04:15 Speaker 07 Yeah.
1:04:16 Laci Mosley? I came out the womb and it was like, gave me the rungs.
1:04:19 Speaker 06 Ladder.
1:04:20 Laci Mosley? They were like, get the climbing, get the climbing, baby boom.
1:04:27 Laci Mosley? So, um, yeah, they, they trying to keep up their Instagram influence, which I think is, they're doing a pretty good job of it. Like, look at, look at either Christian.
1:04:36 Speaker 07 I mean, it all looks very.
1:04:38 Laci Mosley? That has to be Christian.
1:04:39 Speaker 06 What do you mean?
1:04:40 Laci Mosley? With his girl.
1:04:40 Speaker 07 Oh, yeah. Rasmus is.
1:04:42 Laci Mosley? Oh, no, they got a Forbes. If that's the first 30 under 30, then you already know where they going. To jail. You know how many people on the Forbes 30 under 30 list have gone to jail? It's a pipeline.
1:04:51 Speaker 06 That's amazing, I didn't know that.
1:04:52 Laci Mosley? Yes.
1:04:53 Speaker 06 That's amazing.
1:04:54 Laci Mosley? It's a people-to-pipeline system.
1:04:56 Speaker 06 Like, um, the Thera, Thera, what's her name? Elizabeth.
1:04:59 Speaker 07 Elizabeth Holmes.
1:05:00 Speaker 06 She was probably on that list, right?
1:05:02 Laci Mosley? She might have been with a tiny thing. She was definitely on Forbes with a tiny thing. I don't know if it was 30 under 30, though. But just look up Forbes 30 under 30 prison. You'll see what I'm talking about.
1:05:11 Speaker 07 That's a tone article.
1:05:12 Laci Mosley? So, um, one of the first few results of Googling the Mikkelsen Twins scam leads to a post on publishing.com itself, where they trap people who are looking for information about their scamery into listening to their pitch again. So if you look up Mikkelsen Twins scam, it takes you right to publishing.com. They're like, hey, it's us, the Mikkelsen Twins.
1:05:38 Laci Mosley? And look, they even make it look like they're reviewing themselves.
1:05:42 Speaker 07 Absolutely.
1:05:43 Speaker 06 Legit scam.
1:05:43 Laci Mosley? Because look at that post, that YouTube post. Like, this is always how you see a post come up, where you have a blogger who's about to, like, ruin some social media star's life with a bunch of tea that they have on them. It always looks like that.
1:05:56 Speaker 06 That like title card.
1:05:57 Laci Mosley? Yeah, they put that title card for them to put out their own propaganda.
1:06:01 Speaker 06 That's smart.
1:06:02 Laci Mosley? Genius, honestly.
1:06:03 Speaker 07 They said, no, no press is bad press.
1:06:05 Laci Mosley? Right, I mean, y'all Googling us, we might as well get involved. So Big Luca, check it. Don't forget, Big Luca was around.
1:06:12 Speaker 07 What about Big Luca?
1:06:14 Speaker 06 Oh my God, I forgot about Luca.
1:06:16 Laci Mosley? Everybody forgot about Big Luca.
1:06:18 Speaker 06 All y'all forgot about Luca.
1:06:19 Speaker 07 He's building that glory hole.
1:06:21 Laci Mosley? I am not. So at first, Big Luca, it's after. Now you're saying it after.
1:06:30 Speaker 07 He's building that massive glory hole, cover your ears.
1:06:34 Laci Mosley? So at first, Big Luca threatened to take the Mickelsons to court for stealing his grift. Now, I don't know how he's gonna be like, you stole my crime. And I'm taking you to court, buddy.
1:06:44 Speaker 07 I'm the bigger criminal.
1:06:45 Speaker 06 That's a video online when someone's like, calls the cops being like, they took my meth, you know what I mean? Like when someone's like, they stole my meth. You're like, bitch, you have meth.
1:06:53 Laci Mosley? Well, you have to have meth.
1:06:54 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:06:54 Laci Mosley? There's no honor among thieves.
1:06:56 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:06:57 Laci Mosley? It's like I get to the bank to rob, and somebody there before me, tell me, what? I was gonna rob this one. I'm taking you to court.
1:07:07 Laci Mosley? So eventually, right, he just, he, by saying this, he's proving that his own brand is a grift. Because he's like, you stole my shit. So now he runs Big Luca internationally, or more informally, School for the Rich. This is a self-described school as the world-leading company in online marketing training. It's supposed to teach you how to monetize any online business, the self-publishing black tricks used for every other industry on the internet. So on their website, it says, "The world's best company in monetization and online marketing is ready to help you scale your business or create a new one from zero." I'm sorry, when I see the best, I'm instantly triggered to that orange man.
1:07:50 Laci Mosley? The best, the world's best company, that's the best that ever did it. According to who?
1:07:54 Speaker 06 I know. It's, it's, yeah.
1:07:57 Speaker 07 I can't take a company called Big Luca International seriously. There's no freaking way.
1:08:02 Laci Mosley? And what makes you international? Because it's not giving that you are.
1:08:06 Speaker 07 Well, he went to Mexico City one time.
1:08:09 Laci Mosley? Okay, technically international.
1:08:11 Speaker 06 Technically, yes.
1:08:12 Laci Mosley? So now that AI is around, it's easier than ever to flood the whole digital ecosystem with trash in the pursuit of passive income, which we know to be true. And it's such a bummer that AI is destroying everything that we love. Because it's like, it's not helping. I know people are like, oh, I have an AI assistant and it helps me. I'm like, no, you're poisoning the planet. Just go hire a real person.
1:08:33 Speaker 07 Having AI assistants, or AI therapists, or it's all really scary to me.
1:08:40 Speaker 06 It's so, I just had this account follow me that was like, 25 different AI pictures of like, a 10-year-old.
1:08:48 Laci Mosley? Yeesh.
1:08:49 Speaker 06 Like, and the 10-year-old was just, you know, being a dorky kid, but I was like, gross. Like, what the, what the hell is this? What the hell is the purpose of this?
1:08:59 Speaker 07 So the kid doesn't exist.
1:09:00 Speaker 06 The kid does not exist, but it was just like, 25 pictures of a AI kid being a kid. And I was like, fucking ew. Excuse my language, but like, what is this? What is this for?
1:09:11 Laci Mosley? No, it's disgusting. They're doing it to everything and everyone. Like, Timberland even had that fake AI Asian woman who was putting on a black scent and doing music with Timberland.
1:09:22 Speaker 06 What?
1:09:24 Laci Mosley? Yes.
1:09:24 Speaker 07 What was that artist's name?
1:09:26 Laci Mosley? He went for so many egregious things here. I don't know what that artist's name was.
1:09:30 Speaker 07 What was her name? Yes.
1:09:31 Laci Mosley? Because it was something crazy.
1:09:33 Speaker 07 I know, I know.
1:09:35 Speaker 06 Timbaland, please, we stuck with you.
1:09:36 Laci Mosley? Well, we just thought you were unproblematic and chilling. We didn't think you were out here doing anything wild.
1:09:41 Speaker 06 We were with you when you were making fun of people calling them pianoman.
1:09:43 Laci Mosley? Wait, can you look it up for me, just Timbaland AI artist? Because I can't, um.
1:09:45 Speaker 06 I think he called Dr. Dre a pianoman. Timbaland was like saying like, I'm the better producer.
1:09:50 Laci Mosley? Oh.
1:09:50 Speaker 06 And you're just a pianoman.
1:09:52 Speaker 07 Oh.
1:09:52 Laci Mosley? Oh, because I'm thinking, I don't know, I went to Elton John.
1:09:56 Speaker 07 Elton John?
1:09:58 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
1:09:58 Speaker 07 And not Billy Joel?
1:10:00 Speaker 06 Maybe he was coming with Timbaland talking shit.
1:10:01 Laci Mosley? Yeah, shit with Billy Joel.
1:10:02 Speaker 06 Timbaland was starting shit with Billy Joel?
1:10:07 Laci Mosley? Um, her name is Tata.
1:10:09 Speaker 07 Yes.
1:10:10 Laci Mosley? Tata, she got pink hair.
1:10:13 Speaker 06 Real eyes.
1:10:14 Laci Mosley? Red jacket, what do you mean real eyes? Is she AI? What does that mean? But her name Tata. And she rapped just like you think she would.
1:10:22 Speaker 07 Mm-hmm.
1:10:23 Speaker 06 What?
1:10:24 Laci Mosley? Yeah, so that's the world we live in now. But what do you guys think of this scam? Do you like these scammers? Do you dislike them?
1:10:30 Speaker 06 I don't like this scam. This is not a fun crime.
1:10:33 Laci Mosley? Okay, yeah, I think with the AI involved, it makes it less fun. Other than that, I find it to be deeply unserious. And I don't feel as much sympathy for the victims here. Because maybe in 2020, I'll feel a little more sympathy because everybody was trying to get a job from home and your job house was shutting down. I can understand it, but that's a little bit more there. But before and after that, I'm like, AI.
1:10:52 Speaker 06 You're saying their hustle is fair?
1:10:55 Laci Mosley? No, no.
1:10:57 Speaker 06 Okay, okay.
1:10:57 Laci Mosley? I'm saying the victims, I take pity on them during 2020. But after that, when we started learning about AI and how harmful it was, like, yeah, I don't pity y'all. Like, if you want to pay $2,000 to let a long-necked Denmark man talk to you from the dark of his home, then you deserve to get robbed.
1:11:19 Speaker 07 That's the thing, it's like, the red flags were everywhere. Red flags asunder. I don't know why people were like falling into this scam when there were so many signs to turn back.
1:11:31 Laci Mosley? Yeah.
1:11:31 Speaker 07 The dark room, the bed in the background, all of those, it's like, what?
1:11:35 Laci Mosley? At least Luca had, Big Luca had a clean background when he was telling people about getting on.
1:11:39 Speaker 07 Exactly.
1:11:40 Speaker 06 Okay, wait, what is this? Okay, well, this is another scammy video of them on YouTube, okay?
1:11:45 Speaker 07 See, they look AI to me.
1:11:46 Speaker 06 They are creepy.
1:11:48 Speaker 07 It's like I can't trust anything anymore.
1:11:51 Laci Mosley? And they got, now they got tech bro haircuts.
1:11:53 Speaker 07 Yeah.
1:11:53 Laci Mosley? Like, yeah, it's so gross.
1:11:55 Speaker 07 One's eating a banana, rude.
1:11:56 Laci Mosley? And you know a lot of this is US money.
1:11:58 Speaker 06 That's Rasmus trying to beat the fish head rumors. He's like, look, I eat bananas and fish heads. I eat bananas.
1:12:06 Laci Mosley? On that note.
1:12:09 Laci Mosley? We always ask on this podcast, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug, um, social medias, anything coming out, all that good stuff?
1:12:17 Speaker 06 Yes. Oh, well, listen to our podcast, Drag Her Podcast. Um, it's available anywhere you find podcasts. It's a fun dumb time. Um, we're on Patreon as well, cause for the diehard Drag Race fans. But a reminder, the podcast is for everybody. It's for anyone who just likes to hear friends.
1:12:33 Speaker 07 That's true. I recently had a conversation with someone who has never watched Drag Race.
1:12:37 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:12:37 Speaker 07 Listens to our podcast.
1:12:38 Laci Mosley? Oh, I love that.
1:12:39 Speaker 06 We have so much fun together, uh, and we fight like siblings.
1:12:42 Laci Mosley? We do.
1:12:43 Speaker 06 Um, yeah, it's a great time. Go listen to that and.
1:12:46 Speaker 07 You can follow Mono at MonoGapien on.
1:12:49 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:12:49 Speaker 07 Instagram. You can follow me at Ozzy Mo, O Z Z Y M O, on Instagram as well. Uh, patreon.com slash Drag Her Podcast for the Patreon. That's it. I also want to shout out to Tyra Banks.
1:13:02 Speaker 06 Can we plug our drag show instead of Tyra Banks?
1:13:04 Speaker 07 No. Um, no. And, uh, we are, we do, we do a show called Bad Drag Race, where we take Drag Race and we condense it to a three, a three month run at the Dynasty Typewriter.
1:13:16 Speaker 06 That's right.
1:13:17 Speaker 07 Um, with comedians, uh, who are trying drag for the first time. It's really fun, really crunchy.
1:13:22 Speaker 06 Crunchy drag.
1:13:23 Speaker 07 And it's very crunchy, very, very fun. So stay tuned for that.
1:13:26 Speaker 06 And Tyra.
1:13:27 Speaker 07 And Tyra. I mean, you know Santa Smize, right?
1:13:29 Laci Mosley? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Which, I mean, she got, it got her attention. I know about her hot ice cream now, so.
1:13:35 Speaker 07 And the thing that I have to say, it's like, you know, we talked about Timbaland's like AI generated artists, but Santa Smize should have been AI, but Tyra said, no.
1:13:44 Laci Mosley? I'm gonna do it for real.
1:13:46 Speaker 07 That's in my alter ego that I have. I'm gonna wear a piss yell, cover your ears, piss yellow wig and a Santa hat. And I'm a completely different person.
1:13:55 Laci Mosley? And I'm gonna be sweaty and I'm gonna be doing stand up that makes no sense. And I'm gonna make everyone uncomfortable and it's gonna be a. Amazing. And honestly, I love it because people forget OG Tyra. Tyra used to have her own television show and she would like
1:14:06 Speaker 06 Period.
1:14:06 Laci Mosley? Walk out and like have guests on and she would trick them and put like foam in her mouth
1:14:10 Speaker 06 Get rabies.
1:14:11 Laci Mosley? And act like she was having rabies.
1:14:12 Speaker 06 Absolutely having rabies.
1:14:13 Laci Mosley? This woman has never been serious. Y'all just forgot who she was.
1:14:16 Speaker 06 At this point, I bet the documentary is out. The A and T M documentary might be out now.
1:14:21 Speaker 07 Yes. And in the trailer, it's like, yeah, you know, I'm ready to talk now. And then she blames us for her being so extra on the show.
1:14:29 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:14:30 Speaker 07 She's like, you guys wanted more. It's your fault that I became this way.
1:14:34 Laci Mosley? Tyra, nobody told you to come in and tell them girls to switch races.
1:14:37 Speaker 07 I know, exactly.
1:14:39 Laci Mosley? Nobody hit you up and said, put that Asian lady in blackface. We did not tell you to do that.
1:14:43 Speaker 06 No one told you to scream at Tiffany the way you screamed at Tiffany.
1:14:47 Speaker 07 We love it.
1:14:47 Laci Mosley? Which, I mean, it is iconic now.
1:14:49 Speaker 07 It's iconic.
1:14:49 Speaker 06 It's iconic.
1:14:50 Laci Mosley? But at the moment, we weren't like, yell at her, get her. We weren't like, cut that girl hair off and then send her home immediately. We didn't tell you to do that, Tyra.
1:15:00 Laci Mosley? But, um, as always, guys, you can find me at D I V A L A C I D, Belacy, on all platforms. Y'all come see me live.
1:15:06 Speaker 06 Ooh.
1:15:07 Laci Mosley? April 9th, Irving, Texas, at the Punch Line Comedy Theater. I'll be in New York, April 18th, at the Grand Mercy Theater. And April 30th, I'll be in San Francisco reprising our Cobb's Comedy Moment. Y'all know we had a good time out there.
1:15:19 Speaker 06 Ooh.
1:15:19 Laci Mosley? So y'all can come pull up on me live and enjoy my special guests and the scams that we're going through. And I can't wait to see y'all.
1:15:26 Speaker 07 Yeah.
1:15:27 Laci Mosley? Uh, you can pick up my book anywhere. You get books or sell Scam Goddess. And you can find me at D I V A L A C I D, Belacy, on all platforms. If you want to see the pictures of these creepy scamming twins, go ahead and get on Scam Goddess Pod. And get on the Scam Goddess TikTok. It's new and we've got some little videos and reprises up there for y'all who want to see some peoples and some faces. So yeah. And I'll put the link to the Scam Goddess TikTok in the bio. Congregation, I want y'all to get out there and wait. You love me?
1:15:59 Speaker 07 Tell me, I was like, I can't wait to say, wait, you love me one more time.
1:16:03 Laci Mosley? Genius.
1:16:04 Speaker 07 Incredible, Lacey.
1:16:10 Laci Mosley? Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Sisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.
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Previous The Curious Case of Benja-Scam Button w/ Josh Brekhus (Fraud Friday) Next Crooked College Wall Street Investor w/ Cristen Conger (Fraud Friday) Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated