Historical Pretendians w/ Franchesca Ramsey

This week, Laci welcomes Franchesca Ramsey (Superstore) to break down the unbelievable apology from Elizabeth Hoover, a UC Berkeley professor who falsely claimed to be Native American for decades, only to reveal later that she is actually white. Plus, Laci opens up the Lizzie Scammer of Fame vault and adds Elizabeth Hoover to the ever-growing list of Elizabeth scammers. Stay schemin’! CON-gregation, catch Laci's TV Show Scam Goddess, now on Freeform and Hulu! Did you miss out on a custom-signed Scam Goddess book? Look no more, nab your copy on PODSWAG Keep the scams coming and snitch on your friends by emailing us at [email protected]. Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Franchesca Ramsey: @chescaleigh Research by Kathryn Doyle SOURCES https://web.archive.org/web/20241217024127/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/03/04/a-professor-claimed-to-be-native-american-did-she-know-she-wasnt https://indianz.com/News/2022/04/22/young-native-woman-sounds-alarm-about-violence-in-indian-country/ https://www.wyomingpublicmedia.org/tribal-news/2019-08-23/photographer-adam-sings-in-the-timber-wants-to-change-the-way-you-see-native-america https://www.insidehighered.com/news/faculty-issues/diversity-equity/2023/05/08/berkeley-professor-admits-shes-white https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/berkeley-professor-apologizes-false-indigenous-identity-rcna83202 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sfchronicle.com%2Fopinion%2Fopenforum%2Farticle%2Fliz-hoover-uc-berkeley-jacqueline-keeler-19435430.php&psig=AOvVaw1dXaeexX-q6dALB4iQaQZu&ust=1749267536328000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBkQjhxqFwoTCLDhqcvv240DFQAAAAAdAAAAABBl

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:58Speaker 03

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• 2:54Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? Welcome back to another installment of the podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Scam Goddess with me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And y'all already know I'm very what? Excited, yes. Thrilled, elated, we lit. I have, honestly, at this point, she has to be First Lady of the Church.

• 3:20Laci Mosley?

  She sits in the front pew and she's allowed to wear hats.

• 3:25Laci Mosley?

  Today, we have a genius gal, my friend and a congregation darling on the show. She's a comedian, actress, podcaster, and writer queen, okay? You may have seen her in MTV's Decoded, Superstore, and Shit White Girls Say to Black Girls. That's such an iconic video. You have many iconic videos. She's also a co-host of Wondery's podcast, Black History for Real. Congregation, please welcome Francesca Ramsey to the show. Friends, thanks for having me. I think this is four, four, three, four? At this point, you might be the host. Let me hand you this paperwork, okay?

• 4:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, I've been here a few times.

• 4:07Laci Mosley?

  Am I trying to trick you into being the host of this show?

• 4:10Speaker 05

  I have no complaints because one thing I need is a job. I love a check.

• 4:15Laci Mosley?

  Honey, we love unemployment.

• 4:16Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 4:17Laci Mosley?

  We do.

• 4:17Speaker 05

  You of all people, you got a W2 on lock all the time.

• 4:21Laci Mosley?

  I need to stop loving employment so much. It's killing me.

• 4:24Speaker 05

  Well, that's a first for you because I'm always the one telling you, you need to slow down.

• 4:28Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 4:30Laci Mosley?

  And I have yet to slow.

• 4:34Laci Mosley?

  I'm trying. I'm actually doing my level best.

• 4:36Speaker 05

  No, but you know what? You're booked and blessed, so we're okay with that.

• 4:39Laci Mosley?

  Right. It's like, I want to be like, God, please. But I'm also like, God, no, keep it coming.

• 4:43Speaker 05

  God, please, yeah.

• 4:45Laci Mosley?

  So we always ask on this podcast, what is your relationship to scams? Has there been any scams recently? Any scams you're interested in in the news? Any scams you run? Past the statute of limitations? It could literally be anything.

• 4:56Speaker 05

  I am not a scam girly myself. I walk the straight and narrow, except for, I'm not straight or narrow. But I think I told you about this, that my Facebook fan page got hacked last year. And this is a thing that's been happening to a lot of people. They really target people that have large profiles on Facebook. People like actors, podcasters, YouTubers. And honestly, the scam is so genius and well done because it didn't set off any alarm bells to start. Basically, I got asked to do an appearance on a show and it was going to be run through Facebook. And in hindsight, I should have flagged that it was like the Kelsey Brothers show.

• 5:40Speaker 05

  Like, what is their, Travis Kelsey?

• 5:42Laci Mosley?

  Oh.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  What is, I don't know what their.

• 5:44Laci Mosley?

  Taylor Swift, man.

• 5:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, whatever their show is. And I was like, that's weird. Like, why would they want me on their show? Like, I don't do anything about sports. And I was like, should I delete like any shady things I posted about Taylor? But they were like, oh, we want you on the show and it pays. It paid like $3,000. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, none of those things, again, the forum felt a little weird, but I've done weird panels and you know.

• 6:10Laci Mosley?

  We all have.

• 6:10Speaker 05

  We've done all sorts of weird stuff and like the $3,000 to me wasn't a red flag. Like it's not, it's not a small amount, but it's not a huge amount that I would be like, that's unreasonable. They went through my, my management company, again, not a red flag.

• 6:24Laci Mosley?

  At all.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  And then we went back and forth over email scheduling, a time to get on the Zoom to do like a tech check. Again, not a red flag. You do a tech check sometimes when you record from home.

• 6:35Laci Mosley?

  Of course.

• 6:35Speaker 05

  So I get on the Zoom and the guy doesn't turn his camera on.

• 6:41Laci Mosley?

  Which I, I don't know, that's not a red flag for me because sometimes I get on Zoom or, or, oh my God, I hate Google Meet. Anytime somebody's like, Google Meet, I'm like, why, why do you hate me? But I do, I do sometimes get on those calls and not have my camera on.

• 6:55Speaker 05

  It happens. And he said that he was in his car, you know, and like he did have an accent and I was like, well, this, I mean, maybe, you know, I don't know. Like in hindsight, there were all of these moments.

• 7:06Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 7:06Speaker 05

  Long story short.

• 7:07Laci Mosley?

  Why are you scheduling something and then you're in your car for technical things?

• 7:11Speaker 05

  Right. Well, he, it was, it was to check my like audio levels and my camera and like I set up my light and you know, just doing the tech. So long story short, he has me long into my Facebook and on the backend of Facebook, there's all these different like weird settings and, and the stuff that I just never used before. And he was having me adjust the settings and add, um, and add like some paid promotions in order to get paid through Facebook. This is what he told me.

• 7:38Laci Mosley?

  Okay.

• 7:39Speaker 05

  And then as soon as I did it, nothing happened. And he was like, oh, I guess it's not working. He said, oh, I guess not. And then unbeknownst to me, whatever link that he was able to see through, I was screen sharing. He used that link in order to add himself as an admin to my Facebook.

• 7:57Laci Mosley?

  Damn.

• 7:58Speaker 05

  So, and it was truly so quick and seamless. I didn't give him my password. I didn't give him my email. Again, this was a very long process because we had gone through multiple, uh, different calendar invites and coordinating with my management. All of it seemed on the up and up. Um, the next day I went on my Facebook and there was like a strange man added to my Facebook account. I was like, who is that? And then I was kicked out of the Facebook account. It was so upsetting and so violating. It felt so stupid. I was so mad at myself. And then I realized like they had been hitting everybody. They hit Arden. They hit like they were basically going to every comedian actor in our little circle.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  And so thankfully, I was able to get my account back. I got like the Facebook premium in order to talk to somebody on the tech side. But that might be the scam.

• 8:50Laci Mosley?

  Not Facebook being like, well, if you want it back, then uh.

• 8:53Speaker 05

  Pay us. It was, I think it's like $5 a month or something like that. It's the only way you could talk to someone at Facebook. Otherwise, it's just like a black void. And they.

• 9:02Laci Mosley?

  What if they're working with the scammer? They like, okay, steal their account.

• 9:05Speaker 05

  For $5.

• 9:07Laci Mosley?

  It adds up, okay? Mr. Zuckerberg knows how to make a coin, okay?

• 9:11Speaker 05

  Nuck if you zuck, if you will. Yeah, he wanted my, my $5 were the thing that pushed him over the edge into that, that top 1%. Yeah, it's, I made a video about it and it's so sad because that video has gotten, you know, a decent amount of traction, but every single time, like I always get people reaching out to me because they've seen that video and they're like, oh my God, the same thing happened to me. My account is gone and they're not able to get it back. And it's really, it's, it's wild that the scammers have now invested this much time. This is not a quick pump and dump.

• 9:45Laci Mosley?

  Oh, well, listen, scamming is a career, okay? It's a profession. They work just as hard as me.

• 9:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:51Laci Mosley?

  And you.

• 9:52Speaker 05

  I think it's that the, I think it's that the recession has also hit the scammers. Cause they're just more persistent, cause they have to work a little, they know we don't have any money.

• 10:00Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 10:00Speaker 05

  And so they know they need to really like.

• 10:02Laci Mosley?

  They're putting in the time, the effort, the fake receipts. They all Photoshop real bad. You know what I mean? They got InDesign, they making magazines. They're working.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  I fully believe that they're using AI for these, uh, when you get those random text messages. I don't think those are real people. I think somebody is, cause sometimes I just fuck with them and they don't seem to risk, like they don't actually.

• 10:24Laci Mosley?

  They don't hit me back either. I'm like, hey.

• 10:27Speaker 05

  They do.

• 10:27Laci Mosley?

  What's the, what's, yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 05

  Are you at the restaurant? Yeah, I'm here right now. I just ordered some onion rings and then they're like, oh, so. Sorry, wrong number. I'm like, no, it's not the wrong number. It's the right number. I'm here at the restaurant. They're like, you sound cute. I'm like, okay, this is not a real person. So I don't know what the end game is with those, but they have gotten more aggressive.

• 10:48Laci Mosley?

  It's honestly starting to upset me. Like, as someone who has been in scams for almost a decade now.

• 10:55Speaker 05

  Scam is the brand.

• 10:57Laci Mosley?

  It is, you know?

• 10:59Speaker 05

  I know. I get on Good Morning America, I tell Michael Strahan, I'm not a criminal. He's like, first and foremost, I guess we gotta get that out of the way.

• 11:06Laci Mosley?

  But now every morning, I'm getting like six to 10 scam phone calls and at least eight scam texts.

• 11:16Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:17Laci Mosley?

  Like every morning.

• 11:19Speaker 05

  Are they telling you that you owe a toll in Florida and in Georgia? And if you don't call this number, you're gonna get arrested.

• 11:27Laci Mosley?

  Or they're like, oh, we know you got debt. Do you need $50,000 of consolidation? No.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Or they're like, what are you talking about? Hey, Barbara, I saw your resume and I have a great opportunity for you.

• 11:38Laci Mosley?

  Oh, my God.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Where you are gonna make $3,000 and all I have to do is watch TikToks. And I'm like, first of all, my name's not Barbara. Second of all, I'm interested.

• 11:50Speaker 05

  I'm already watching TikTok.

• 11:52Laci Mosley?

  We love your Instagram profile. Would you like to work with our brand? And we'll pay you to post like every day.

• 12:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:02Laci Mosley?

  Every medium.

• 12:03Speaker 05

  And you know they're getting, they're getting somebody. In this economy, people need jobs.

• 12:07Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 05

  And especially if you're somebody who has been applying for lots of jobs and putting your phone number and your email on a lot of these sites. It's conceivable that you might get one of these messages and think, oh, this is somebody calling me back about an application. I'm just confused. Like, what do they, what do they then do? Do you think they ask you for money?

• 12:25Laci Mosley?

  No, they send you a fake check that'll take money out of your bank account.

• 12:29Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 12:30Laci Mosley?

  And right now, people need, honestly, it's sad that the economy's hit scammers so hard. Cause they didn't used to have to do this much.

• 12:39Speaker 05

  No, I think they, I-

• 12:40Laci Mosley?

  They're hurting just like us.

• 12:44Laci Mosley?

  I feel for them.

• 12:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay. I'm not there yet. I love that for you. You have ascended to a higher plane of consciousness.

• 12:54Laci Mosley?

  Their businesses have been destroyed, okay? They need work too.

• 12:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, not, not, not me, but, but I mean, you have to, you have to applaud the ingenuity. They're trying new things, so.

• 13:06Laci Mosley?

  They are, and they're working really hard. Almost makes me want to give it to them, but.

• 13:11Speaker 05

  Almost makes you want to start a podcast where I honor them every week.

• 13:16Laci Mosley?

  Some, some we hate.

• 13:18Speaker 05

  Almost makes you want to write a book. Almost makes you want to have a TV show. Scammers, putting the spotlight on you.

• 13:25Laci Mosley?

  I'm trying to support you, okay? Because I know y'all need us. It's like, who are they gonna rob if we're not here?

• 13:31Speaker 05

  Hmm, yeah, yeah, no, that's fair. Scam!

• 13:37Speaker 06

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• 15:40Laci Mosley?

  Now, let's get into historic hoodwakes.

• 15:43Speaker 05

  Let's do it.

• 15:43Laci Mosley?

  This is where I will regale Francesca with the famous con, caper, group of criminals. We don't know yet, maybe we like them, maybe we hate them.

• 15:52Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 15:52Laci Mosley?

  I don't know, we'll get your opinions all throughout. So, a UC Berkeley professor who had been presenting herself as Native American for decades recently apologized because she finally looked into it, and it turns out she's white.

• 16:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I feel like we have had so many. Rachel Dolezal, you will, there will be a day in hell that is marked specifically for her. I'm going to say that she is the reason for the season of all of these people cosplaying as other races.

• 16:26Laci Mosley?

  Listen, but at least Rachel went out and got herself a perm and a tan.

• 16:29Speaker 05

  I, listen, I'm not going to give that white woman any sliver of an inch of credit. This is, and, and, and she had the nerve to be a professor.

• 16:39Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah, she hopped on spaces and started running them.

• 16:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, that's what Rachel was doing, but that's what this mom was doing too.

• 16:46Laci Mosley?

  And, and, and look, she said, look, I looked it up. Turns out I'm just like Elizabeth Warren.

• 16:51Speaker 05

  I feel like she knew before. She knew before she looked it up.

• 16:54Laci Mosley?

  I don't know, she was like, I'm a little bit native, we, I could be.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm, sure.

• 17:01Speaker 05

  So, childhood powwows.

• 17:05Laci Mosley?

  I wish I was with me friends today.

• 17:07Speaker 05

  Oh, is this her?

• 17:08Laci Mosley?

  This is her. Okay, look, she looked like she could be a little native.

• 17:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, she got the, the dark hair, the hooded eye.

• 17:17Laci Mosley?

  A little olive skin tone.

• 17:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay.

• 17:20Laci Mosley?

  She wearing the jewelry, so at least she pays some natives to have the drip.

• 17:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I, hmm, I, I can't.

• 17:27Laci Mosley?

  See, see, see?

• 17:28Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no, no. I just made a noise, I didn't say anything yet. I, I could see that people might have been assuming she was native, so it was probably a thing she was hearing a lot. But I still am gonna go with my gut here that she knew, that she knew from the start. But I, the only thing that I'm giving her is that visually, it's not like she's doing like brown face, which Rachel Dolezal was definitely hitting that tan.

• 17:56Laci Mosley?

  Yes, she was buying the Queen Latifah collection and rubbing that shit on every day.

• 18:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:04Laci Mosley?

  I mean, she, maybe she was just going with the bit. After a while, sometimes you just gotta go with it.

• 18:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't know, I'm not, I'm not into it.

• 18:14Laci Mosley?

  Well, Elizabeth Hoover, that should have been her first giveaway that she wasn't native, grew up in Albany, New York, thinking she had mixed Mohawk and Mi'kmaq? I think I'm saying that right? French, English, Irish, and German ancestry. Her mother Anita told her about her great grandmother, a Mohawk woman who married an abusive French Canadian man and drowned herself in a river in order to escape him, leaving five children behind. That's a lot.

• 18:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, that is a lot.

• 18:49Laci Mosley?

  Unless she was the last of the Mohicans.

• 18:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, okay, I'm, I'm glad to get a little bit more context here. It doesn't, it doesn't make it that much better, but like.

• 19:00Laci Mosley?

  It's kind of a traumatizing story for your mom to tell you.

• 19:02Speaker 05

  Right, and you don't wanna be like, that sounds fishy, like that's giving victim blaming. So she wanted to, she wanted to believe. Yeah.

• 19:09Laci Mosley?

  So Anita, her mama, took her children, including Elizabeth, to powwows in Western New York and New England, where Native Americans would play music, share crafts, and dance. Elizabeth made friends with other kids, like her friend Tammy. Who's also came to the powwows to reconnect with native culture they inherited, but not had grown up with. And look, powwows.com? I didn't even know about this.

• 19:38Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 19:39Laci Mosley?

  See, they tell you where all the powwows happening. We got a veteran's powwow in June.

• 19:44Speaker 05

  OK, well, you know what?

• 19:45Laci Mosley?

  Drums along the Hudson.

• 19:47Speaker 05

  When you first said it, in my mind, I was thinking just like very stereotypical, like, white people trying to emulate Native Americans, but knowing that they were going to, again, the bar is literally in the earth's core, but they were obviously supporting local native people by going to these events. So, yeah, OK.

• 20:09Laci Mosley?

  By the time Elizabeth was a teenager, she had taken on a megamac name, which translates as mountain flower, which she says was given by an elder at a ceremony. OK, so she got rebirthed.

• 20:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, OK. I mean, she really went all in. But.

• 20:33Laci Mosley?

  The dedication is there.

• 20:34Speaker 05

  I'm waiting for the red flags to show up, because I really have a feeling, before she got all the way to sign him at W2, she knew something wasn't right.

• 20:48Laci Mosley?

  So she was quoted in Parade Magazine in 1996, speaking out against racist mascots in sports. See, so she advocated.

• 20:58Speaker 05

  OK.

• 20:58Laci Mosley?

  The quote is, "Being of Native American descent, I'm annoyed at mascots like Indians, or Chiefs, or Braves, and the mock war whoops and chanting that often accompany these names."

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, she's not wrong.

• 21:14Laci Mosley?

  She's not wrong.

• 21:15Speaker 05

  You don't have to be native to have some sense.

• 21:17Laci Mosley?

  That's true. But she was like giving it more credence. Because she was like, also, these are my people. So that's why I'm very mad and upset.

• 21:24Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. I'm very mad that she took away an opportunity for a real native person to be quoted in that article. But that's just me.

• 21:32Laci Mosley?

  She being an ally.

• 21:35Laci Mosley?

  Listen, all these protests recently against Trump and the administration and, and all these people showing up to stop ICE detainment and things. It's mostly been white people. And the protests are less dangerous because it's only white people. Because the police are like, oh, we don't have a chance to beat up Negroes? Oh, OK, I guess we'll just let y'all be. The protests have gotten so chilled. There was one that, um, some white people started speaking out and saying, well,

• 21:59Speaker 05

  We need childcare.

• 22:00Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  I saw that on, on threads. She said, oh, it was kind of boring. There was no place for my kid to play. Mama, this is not, uh, this is not a function. She said, oh, why isn't, maybe we could have a bouncy house or a ball pit at the next one.

• 22:15Laci Mosley?

  Listen, they're new to struggle, OK? They don't know that, you know, when you, when you marching on Selma, they, they hitting you with hoses or the police beating your ass. They're like, um, we need a day, like, y'all don't got no arts and crafts for the babies or nothing?

• 22:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's, that's not the vibe.

• 22:34Laci Mosley?

  Like, y'all can't get a little smoothie pop up out here or something? Shit, I'd have been to so many protests where we walked like 12 miles and then had to double back. And I was like, we didn't get no freedom, did we? We just, did we get closer? Like, maybe, maybe.

• 22:49Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 22:50Laci Mosley?

  But they're like, we need childcare and snacks. And it would be lovely if there was a police escort.

• 22:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:00Laci Mosley?

  So academics. As a young adult, being native was a big part, probably the biggest part of her identity. At college in Western Massachusetts, she organized campus powwows. And her senior thesis was titled, "The Self-Identification of a Mixed-Blood", I'm reading that right, "of Mixed-Blood Indians in the United States and Canada." After graduation, she went to Brown for a PhD in anthropology and later got a tenured professorship at the University of California, Berkeley.

• 23:32Laci Mosley?

  By her early 40s, she was one of the most successful Native American academics in the country. She published the 2017 book, The River Is In Us.

• 23:47Speaker 05

  But not you. It's not a new.

• 23:50Laci Mosley?

  She don't know where the river at.

• 23:52Speaker 05

  No, no, no. 23andMe says, no river for you.

• 23:58Laci Mosley?

  She says, listen, I'm next to the river. I'm adjacent. I got my toe in the river.

• 24:02Speaker 05

  I have riverfront property. I have a timeshare at the river. I'm there every three months. I pay for it year round.

• 24:10Laci Mosley?

  So the end of that is fighting toxics in a Mohawk community. So she was fighting people in the community in her book. Or for the community. As her academic success increased, so did questions about her actual ancestry. So then somebody started being like, I don't know about this.

• 24:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:32Laci Mosley?

  An Etsy shop exploded on her.

• 24:35Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 24:35Laci Mosley?

  I know, that's a second left term.

• 24:38Speaker 05

  I'm intrigued. I do love Etsy.

• 24:40Laci Mosley?

  I do too. I love being like Etsy something. Okay, you can get anything on there. They make anything and I love it.

• 24:48Laci Mosley?

  Which one? You want Michelle Obama earrings? They got it.

• 24:53Laci Mosley?

  Etsy's sponsoring the show.

• 24:56Laci Mosley?

  So colleagues and students noticed how Elizabeth was always beating, even during presentations at work, and how she would telegraph herself as a native in her dress and mannerisms in a way that many actual native people do not. Elizabeth was happy to fuel fantasies of the white imagination of what an authentic native person was, according to one graduate student.

• 25:26Speaker 05

  Hmm. Yeah, I mean, doing the beat, like, not that, to me, beating wouldn't have been a red flag, but to be doing it while you're also teaching?

• 25:35Laci Mosley?

  She gotta tell you she native all the time.

• 25:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, that, that's a little weird.

• 25:39Laci Mosley?

  I feel like she's wearing headdresses too much.

• 25:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:43Laci Mosley?

  She got on way too much turquoise all the time.

• 25:46Speaker 05

  Well, in that photo, she had a lot of like big native jewelry on. Well, the one where she was on the horse, she had like earrings on and like a necklace.

• 25:56Laci Mosley?

  Oh my, she's wearing a dream catcher?

• 25:58Speaker 05

  She's got a dream catcher necklace on.

• 26:01Laci Mosley?

  Aren't you supposed to hang those in your house? I have never seen somebody just rocking it. That's not what.

• 26:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's a little.

• 26:08Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah, you gotta stare, Boogie. That's a little bit too much. That's, that's like when Jussie Smollett was wearing that, that noose. When the boys picked him up. It's like you trying too hard. Nobody's just gonna wear a noose after somebody tried to lynch him. You just wearing it.

• 26:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:27Laci Mosley?

  No. Oh, no. Yeah. She was, she was really giving the performance, though. So Audra Simpson, an anthropology professor at Columbia, and a member of the Mohawk Nation who was suspicious of Elizabeth from jump, said, "It looked like an Etsy shop exploded on her."

• 26:49Speaker 05

  Oh, we really thought she got into it with Etsy.

• 26:52Laci Mosley?

  I did too. I thought Etsy was trying to fight her. What did she do?

• 26:55Speaker 05

  No. Audra said, "I'm gonna give you a creative drag to the 10th degree." Okay, I got it.

• 27:01Laci Mosley?

  So in the summer of 2005, Elizabeth had traveled to the area outside of Montreal, where she said her Mohawk relatives were from, to attend a powwow. Afterward, in an email, she said, "She ran into people who knew people I'm related to, so that was nice." So she was like, "See? I got, I got an Indian friend. I got a, or rather, a native friend. I got native cousins."

• 27:26Speaker 05

  But now, but now I'm wondering if that actually happened. She's, just because she said it happened, doesn't mean it happened.

• 27:33Laci Mosley?

  Okay, that's true.

• 27:35Speaker 05

  And also, we now know she's not native, so they, so. You know, like, were they just being nice? Oh, you look like somebody I, somebody I know, you know?

• 27:45Laci Mosley?

  Or was she doing that?

• 27:46Speaker 05

  Or was she making that up?

• 27:48Laci Mosley?

  Because I have definitely seen people who look like me and thought, like, I didn't realize who they were. Like, I remember being in Vegas, like, in some VIP section, and I went to a bathroom that was unisex. And I saw this man, and I was like, oh, my God, you look so familiar. Are you my cousin? And then we started walking together back to a table, and I was like, so, he was like, okay, well, where are your family from? What's your last name? And I was like, what's your last name? Where your family from? Who are, and then eventually, we got back to the table, and I realized it was Tank.

• 28:21Speaker 05

  Oh, I feel like that always happens to celebrities. He was just going along with it because he thought you were cute. He knew that you did not know him.

• 28:29Laci Mosley?

  I really thought he was my cousin.

• 28:30Speaker 05

  He has been famous long enough to know that if a random person says, you look familiar, you know, no, we don't know each other.

• 28:39Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 28:40Speaker 05

  You know, and that probably happens to you all the time. Where people are like, do I know you from somewhere? And then you're kind of like, maybe.

• 28:47Laci Mosley?

  Or my favorite thing is like, I'll meet a fan, and they'll be like, Lacey. And it's a certain way you can say someone's name that makes it sound familiar. But I was just like, Fran.

• 28:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:59Laci Mosley?

  Fran, hold on, come over here, Fran.

• 29:00Speaker 05

  Well, see, here's, here's a thing that I have up my little sleeve is because online, I'm Cheska Lee. If someone says Cheska, I know they know me from the internet. Because everybody in real life says Fran. And then everybody from my childhood says Francesca. So, and then sometimes people are like, Chelsea? I'm like, it's definitely not Chelsea, it's Cheska Lee. But I can also understand, you know, that people have been listening to you in their ear for so long and have followed your career for so long. It does feel like they know you. And especially, you know, you're very active on social media. So I'm not surprised that your fans have that familiarity with you.

• 29:37Laci Mosley?

  But it kind of gets me sometimes. I look up like, who?

• 29:41Laci Mosley?

  Because you know what? They don't know you, they'd be like, Lacey, oh, Lacey, or Diva Lacey. Whereas they'd be like, Lacey Mosley. I'm like, hello? I must know you. You yelling my name like that? So, she says she ran into these people, and they were like, you my cousin? And she was like, yes. And yeah, she could have been lying. How are we supposed to know? She telling the story.

• 30:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:02Laci Mosley?

  But she never carefully researched her genealogy or looked for actual relatives. So I guess she was lying. Even when she was right, because she knew that she was not eligible for tribal enrollment, there was no point, she says. So she was like, even if I found out where they lived and they were my cousin, we can't get those benefits. We can't get the tribal benefits. She began teaching at UC Berkeley in the fall of 2020, which is when people started openly questioning her about her identity. At the time, she thought that it was just petty jealousy. Like, y'all want to be natives so bad.

• 30:40Laci Mosley?

  Y'all wish y'all were native like me.

• 30:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:42Laci Mosley?

  Y'all could never. You can't even spell natives.

• 30:47Laci Mosley?

  Her longtime romantic partner was a crow photographer named Adam Sings in the Timber, who had been accused of sexual assault by multiple young native women. So he was also denying allegations at the time.

• 31:04Speaker 05

  Oh, girl. Your discernment is not good.

• 31:08Laci Mosley?

  Oh, no.

• 31:09Speaker 05

  Oh, that's not good.

• 31:11Laci Mosley?

  Is that, is that her?

• 31:13Speaker 05

  No, that's, that's him. That's the guy.

• 31:15Laci Mosley?

  He's the photographer, but that's not her in the picture.

• 31:18Speaker 05

  I think in the, the picture we just saw before, yeah, that's, that's them together.

• 31:23Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah, he don't even look. Okay.

• 31:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:28Laci Mosley?

  So in 2022, Elizabeth finally did look into her genealogy and issued an apology for being white.

• 31:39Speaker 05

  The first step is admitting you have a problem.

• 31:45Laci Mosley?

  Oh, you know why people do not want to apologize for being white? Oh, my God.

• 31:51Laci Mosley?

  So in October, she essentially said, essentially, what I am currently left with is that I do not have any official documentation to verify the way my family has identified. A few months later, she published another statement, which said, um, Fran, can you go ahead and read the statement?

• 32:11Speaker 05

  Oh, okay, yeah, let me, let me get my fraudulent voice on. "Letter of apology and accountability." In all caps. "I have brought harm and broken trust to the native community at large and to specific native communities I have worked with and lived alongside. And for that, I am deeply sorry. I am a white person."

• 32:35Speaker 05

  Who has incorrectly identified as Native my whole life, based on incomplete information and uncritically living an identity based on family stories, without seeking a documented connection to the... Ma'am, this is a long ass sentence. I have caused harm. I hurt Native people who have become my friends, colleagues, students, and family, both directly through fractured trust and through activating historical harms. This hurt has also interrupted student and faculty life, along with your beating, ma'am, and careers. I acknowledge that I could have prevented all of this hurt by investigating

• 33:19Speaker 05

  and confirming my family's story as sooner. For this, I am deeply sorry.

• 33:25Laci Mosley?

  I love that this apology has so much language of a good apology, but it's also saying, "My family lied to me."

• 33:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:33Laci Mosley?

  I didn't know. They lied to me and I didn't look it up because they lied to me. So really, they lied to me.

• 33:39Speaker 05

  I mean, look.

• 33:40Laci Mosley?

  And I'm a victim.

• 33:41Speaker 05

  She does, she does say, "I acknowledge that I could have prevented all of this hurt." And to your point, she should have said that a little earlier. She should have said, "I am a white person who I incorrectly identified and I also realize this is my fault. I could have done some research. The 23 of me come straight to the mailbox."

• 34:01Laci Mosley?

  No, she had to tell you how it wasn't her fault a lot before she admitted fault.

• 34:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, and she also said, like, she also kind of did the thing where she's like, "I know a lot of Native people. I'm friends with y'all."

• 34:12Laci Mosley?

  I was in the community. I live next to them. They are my friends.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:17Laci Mosley?

  I supported y'all.

• 34:19Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:20Laci Mosley?

  So really, how y'all gonna be bad at me? Because I've been a homie. So what if I lied about it?

• 34:27Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, again, she knows that she could have just done a little bit more digging, and she didn't. And I think, to me, that confirms, she knew.

• 34:38Laci Mosley?

  She knew.

• 34:39Speaker 05

  She knew, and she just didn't, she just didn't think it was ever gonna come to the table.

• 34:43Laci Mosley?

  And people started calling her out, and that's why she made this apology, because I think too many people called her out. So she was like, "Let me get ahead of it."

• 34:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 34:50Laci Mosley?

  All my homies Native, okay? I've been to all the powwows. Y'all see me? Y'all see me at the powwows, okay?

• 34:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, you was there, but a lot of people was there.

• 34:59Laci Mosley?

  Nobody owns more turquoise than I do. Yeah, I know, but also I could have looked into it.

• 35:05Speaker 05

  She really, really could have. Oh, and you know, the other thing that she mentioned that I think is worth noting is like, this is a, this is an issue like throughout history, where people claim the Native American identity in order to get ahead. You know that commercial with the crying Native American with the garbage? That man is not Native American.

• 35:26Laci Mosley?

  He not?

• 35:27Speaker 05

  No! And that is a very famous commercial that's like won awards and shit.

• 35:33Laci Mosley?

  And he was?

• 35:34Speaker 05

  That he was not Native American.

• 35:36Laci Mosley?

  Hmm. You know, white people have wanted to be Native American real bad for a long time.

• 35:41Speaker 05

  I feel like-

• 35:41Laci Mosley?

  Remember westerns? Where they would just put the white people in light-skinned face? And they'd be like, "How are you?"

• 35:48Speaker 05

  And everyone would always say Cherokee. Even the fact that Cherokee is a fucking car is cra- like, that's insane.

• 35:55Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, we all jeep Cherokee.

• 35:57Speaker 05

  No, that's fucked up. It's fucked up.

• 35:59Laci Mosley?

  No.

• 35:59Speaker 05

  That we've turned them into a brand.

• 36:02Laci Mosley?

  No. We turned a lot of Native people to the br- that's what you're talking about, all the teams, all the sports teams.

• 36:08Speaker 05

  I know, it's really sickening and it's gotten to the point that because people are so divorced from actual Native Americans, they feel like they can claim it because it's not hurting anyone. I don't even know anybody. And it's like, yeah.

• 36:21Laci Mosley?

  I mean, we have a whole holiday where we lie about genocide.

• 36:24Speaker 05

  Hello.

• 36:24Laci Mosley?

  Thanksgiving.

• 36:25Speaker 05

  Hello.

• 36:26Laci Mosley?

  Like, they love to be like, "Oh, well, the pilgrims came over and the Native Americans like, "Y'all come break bread with us. We love y'all." No, y'all came over with a bunch of diseases and then started killing them people and stealing all their things. At one point, you were killing buffalo just because you knew they liked to eat them. Like, y'all hate them people real bad and now you're trying to rebrand it like, "No, we love them. Look, we made them sports teams. We made them vehicles."

• 36:49Speaker 05

  Even though they keep saying, "Hey, please don't do that." Shut up. We know better than you.

• 36:54Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 36:55Speaker 05

  We are honoring you, you dumbass.

• 36:57Laci Mosley?

  Right, shut up, bestie. We been besties. I don't know what the fuck you talk about. You don't like- Like what we did to you? No, we was having fun.

• 37:06Speaker 05

  Didn't you see this whole Etsy store I opened in your honor? That you don't profit off of, but I do? Aren't you grateful for all the shit I've done for you?

• 37:16Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, we stole, we stole y'all's tribal names and we made sports teams out of them that we make money off of that you don't even. But we honoring you. Look at the photo. Look at the photo of a guy.

• 37:27Speaker 05

  Look at this racist ass caricature that we made of you. Don't you feel proud?

• 37:32Laci Mosley?

  We are honoring you.

• 37:33Speaker 05

  Friends.

• 37:34Laci Mosley?

  Shut up. Shut your ass up.

• 37:38Speaker 05

  You beautiful majestic native person, shut up.

• 37:41Laci Mosley?

  Shut up. Yeah, y'all got here first and we stole everything from y'all. Okay? Manifest Destiny, God told us to steal. What do you mean?

• 37:49Speaker 05

  Just like the, the level of cognitive dissonance to just be like, I'm, like, I know how to honor you. Shut up. Don't tell me how to honor you.

• 38:01Laci Mosley?

  I don't know though. Manifest Destiny is a banger. Like, sometimes I try to take that in my own life. My God told me to steal. God wanted this for me.

• 38:09Speaker 05

  I will also say Manifest Destiny, I love a portmanteau. I love when you can mix two words together. It is great, but in, in theory, in practice, it's not great.

• 38:22Laci Mosley?

  A higher power told us to take everything from you and kill you. Okay? Not, not us. We didn't do it.

• 38:30Speaker 05

  Oh my goodness.

• 38:32Laci Mosley?

  Robbery.

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• 41:40Laci Mosley?

  I mean, we've dissected this apology. We know it's.

• 41:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm gonna say it's like a C plus. It was short.

• 41:48Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, was it?

• 41:49Speaker 05

  I think, I mean, to her credit, it was two paragraphs. I mean, sometimes you see these, these, uh, apologies and they're really long.

• 41:56Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 05

  You can cut all that.

• 41:57Laci Mosley?

  They wanted to be convoluted, so you can't really like, understand.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, and again, to her credit, this is pre-chat GPT, so you really knew she put those.

• 42:06Laci Mosley?

  She typed that herself.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  She really put fingers to the keyboard. It wasn't great, but she actually, you know, in a rare instance, she did, she did the work.

• 42:16Laci Mosley?

  Jess is raising her hand. Wait, is it, is it post chat?

• 42:18Speaker 06

  It's very long, actually.

• 42:20Speaker 05

  Oh, we saw that.

• 42:22Laci Mosley?

  Oh, my God!

• 42:26Speaker 05

  Oh, there's bullet points. Oh, no. Oh, no.

• 42:29Laci Mosley?

  Oh, my God, it's so long!

• 42:30Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 42:33Speaker 05

  Oh, there's a bibliography.

• 42:35Laci Mosley?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 42:36Speaker 05

  This is crazy. Oh, this is real.

• 42:39Laci Mosley?

  She's still, Jess is still scrolling. Oh, they got, she got photos of her holding corn? She got a photo of her holding maize? Oh, I'm, oh, I'm done. I'm done.

• 42:50Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. This is really, this is, that is way longer.

• 42:55Laci Mosley?

  Oh, my God, I thought it was only two paragraphs. Yo, we'll try to post the whole apology on Instagram, because this is, it's comedically longer than we thought.

• 43:06Speaker 05

  There were like fourteen bullet points.

• 43:09Laci Mosley?

  There's so many paragraphs.

• 43:11Speaker 05

  There's an addendum. Initial commitments going forward. Okay, oh, yeah, this is.

• 43:17Laci Mosley?

  I have, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, scroll up, hold on, pause. In her commitments going forward, one of them says, I have put away my dance regalia, ribbon skirts, moccasins, and native jewelry.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  That sounds like the lyrics to a song. I have put away my dance regalia, ribbons, skirts, and moccasins.

• 43:38Speaker 05

  Like, right? It just sounds like, like laying your burdens down. Like, it just sounds-

• 43:42Laci Mosley?

  By the river that she lived next to with all the native people.

• 43:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:46Laci Mosley?

  She laid them all down by the river.

• 43:49Speaker 05

  It says, "I have a gun to give away some of these things to people who will wear them better."

• 43:53Laci Mosley?

  She said, "I gave all the drip back to the actual natives."

• 43:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:56Laci Mosley?

  I returned, oh, she said, "I did reparations."

• 44:00Speaker 05

  I mean, I'm, I'm conflicted because I do think it's good that she's saying, like, here's what I'm gonna do. But like, this is so long. Like, there has to have been a shorter way to say all this.

• 44:12Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 44:12Speaker 05

  Oh, she does say, "I will continue to funnel the proceeds from my talks and book sales in the native farm, food sovereignty, and educational programs. You know I like writing a check. I will make additional donations to practitioners in these fields." Okay, I think that's positive.

• 44:28Laci Mosley?

  I mean-

• 44:29Speaker 05

  I just, this is long.

• 44:30Laci Mosley?

  If it's gonna be this long and this detailed, tell us exactly how much money you giving to them? And where it's going to? So we can verify it. You just said you was just gonna give money out to the ether people we don't know. You didn't tell us how much money. So I don't know if you gonna give them money.

• 44:43Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:44Laci Mosley?

  It just sounds like you're like, "And I will give them the money." Who is them?

• 44:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:48Laci Mosley?

  How much money? When?

• 44:51Speaker 05

  I mean, look, I, again, I don't know this woman, I'm not trying to give her too much credit, but I would hope that if she's saying this, knowing there's this huge spotlight on her, if she's really not giving money to somebody, the organization can be like, "We don't know her."

• 45:04Laci Mosley?

  But we don't know the organization.

• 45:06Speaker 05

  Right.

• 45:06Laci Mosley?

  So how could anybody clock it and be like, "She ain't send us shit." Cause she didn't tell us who she was sending it to.

• 45:11Speaker 05

  Right.

• 45:12Laci Mosley?

  So everybody could assume that somebody else got the money. Because she never told us who was getting the money.

• 45:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 45:19Laci Mosley?

  That sound like a scam to me.

• 45:20Speaker 06

  Scam 101.

• 45:21Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:22Laci Mosley?

  Scam 101, yes, Jess. That's like, if I pretended to have, like, cancer, and then people caught me, and I say, "You know what? I'm gonna support the communities. And I will be giving back some of my book money for my cancer book to the cancer people."

• 45:39Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:39Laci Mosley?

  Who is that?

• 45:40Speaker 05

  It's vague, it's very vague. You're, you're not wrong, you're not wrong, it's vague.

• 45:44Laci Mosley?

  But she made it so long that it seems like

• 45:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:47Laci Mosley?

  It's something.

• 45:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, this is really, really long.

• 45:51Laci Mosley?

  And now, remember, she's tenured. So there is a bullet point that says, "I will work with campus partners to provide support to students who have been directly impacted by my inaccurate self-identification and an Indigenous scholar."

• 46:05Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 46:06Laci Mosley?

  So she's saying, "I'm keeping my job."

• 46:08Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 46:08Laci Mosley?

  I'm tenured, you can't fire me.

• 46:10Speaker 05

  But I'm gonna work with y'all. I don't wanna talk to you. But like, that feels very manipulative.

• 46:14Laci Mosley?

  It's, it, it, and she's like, eh.

• 46:19Laci Mosley?

  Oh my gosh. "Based on ongoing personal reflection, conversations with colleagues, and especially keeping in mind the communities I have worked with and for, I will gear full research towards supporting people and communities with whom I have an authentic relationship and will support people."

• 46:42Speaker 05

  Authentic relationship. I'm sorry, I have, I have to jump in. I think you're struggling, cuz this font is atrocious. What is this, Pyrrhus? Why does she pick this? It feels like she tried to pick a font that looked kind of like rustic.

• 46:56Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 46:56Speaker 05

  You know what I mean? Like, it's, uh, I, maybe this is just like the graphic design nerd in me, but like, this is not like a standard Arial, Helvetica.

• 47:05Laci Mosley?

  Well, I mean, she could write it in Comic Sans.

• 47:06Speaker 05

  A Futura. No, I'm saying usually you use like a Slim Sans Serif font. This has like a little.

• 47:13Laci Mosley?

  She could've just gave us a Times New Roman, to be for real.

• 47:16Speaker 05

  Well, not, not easy to read, but I will say, the, whatever is on this font, it's like, it's like too slim. It's like slim in certain parts and like a little thicker in other parts. Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 47:29Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:31Laci Mosley?

  Okay, I'm gonna try to get through this. This, it's like a sentence, but it's a paragraph.

• 47:35Speaker 05

  Oh, God, yeah. This person is a professor and you don't know how to edit?

• 47:39Laci Mosley?

  At all.

• 47:40Speaker 05

  That is, that is a sentence that is one, two, three, four, five lines long.

• 47:45Laci Mosley?

  "I will gear future research towards supporting people and communities with whom I have an authentic relationship and will accept spaces where communities ask me to step back." AKA, these are still my homies, so if y'all want me to slide back up, like, I'ma come. "I will be transparent about my identity." Journey and the new role I'm occupying. Because I'm not leaving, uh, babes. I'm just gonna be white now, but I still know everything about natives. I know more things about natives than you do as a native. Like, I done studied everything, so y'all not gonna kick me out. In addition to having my research serve the communities I work with, my desire to continue,

• 48:28Laci Mosley?

  I'm sorry, to continue to contribute to student learning and academia more broadly. And I'm, I am committed to approaching this with thoughtfulness towards what has happened. Okay, that last sentence is just like, she was like, I'm just saying stuff at this point. Yeah, she really is. Continue, contribute, student learning, academia, uh. Well, and also thoughtfulness towards what has happened? Lies, lies is what has happened. Right, what do you mean thoughtfulness to what has happened? Yeah, I'm very thoughtful about the lies I told y'all. I thought a lot about them. I thought a lot about them. The thoughts are thoughting.

• 49:10Laci Mosley?

  Now, I'm still thinking I'm gonna be here, and I think y'all are gonna welcome me. I mean, she knows she's still gonna be there, cuz like you said, she's tenured. Yeah, I, we can't read no more of this, but it's very aggressively long, like. Yeah. She was saying anything and everything. Oh, shout out to your producer being like, ah, ah, ah, don't give her no credit. It is actually, I want you to see how long it is. Just as crazy for putting that up. Like, that made me scream. I was like, oh, my God, it's so much more. Oh, lady, why would you do this? Like, why would you do this? It feels like when you, uh, get a book report and you're just trying to like, fill up the word count and just get it as long as possible. You're like, and furthermore, and so and such.

• 49:51Laci Mosley?

  And another thing that I really liked and the thoughtfulness in which this paragraph was. Accountability, students contribute, um, life, um, from the window to the wall, till the sweat dropped down my balls. Skeet, skeet, skeet, skeet. That gets me at least 11 more words, like, what? Yeah, she was dragging it out.

• 50:22Laci Mosley?

  In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Like, girl, where are we going? Where are we going? I'm lost.

• 50:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:31Laci Mosley?

  Oh, that's a good scammer thing, though. That was like, kind of, somebody probably read that and was like, wow, she really is sad about this.

• 50:39Speaker 05

  I mean, she tried to cover all of her bases. Again, like, I guess that counts for something, but I think just being succinct would have been, would have done a little bit more.

• 50:50Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, but that would have been, she was being for real. She wasn't being for real.

• 50:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:54Laci Mosley?

  She was like, this what people like. They like when it's long.

• 50:57Speaker 05

  So what happened after she made this apology or the statement?

• 51:00Laci Mosley?

  So pro and con scammer arguments. Is she or is she not a scammer? Some people argue Elizabeth is innocent because she didn't know the truth herself. She was just believing what she had been told.

• 51:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. I don't know. I, I think that would have held more weight if she was like a kid. But she was fully in adulthood and, you know, this was a huge part of her identity and part of the work that she was doing.

• 51:31Laci Mosley?

  Benefited financially extremely from it.

• 51:33Speaker 05

  Exactly. And there were multiple points throughout the story where people were kind of giving her side eye. And that would have been the time, if she really was like, no, I'm ten toes down, that would have been the time to be like, I'll just look this shit up. I'll prove it to you. But I think she was kind of, uh, because she knew.

• 51:51Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 05

  I think she knew.

• 51:52Laci Mosley?

  Because if you have a, like a receipt, oh, you go grab it if people are challenging you.

• 51:57Speaker 05

  Right.

• 51:57Laci Mosley?

  I'll go straight to CVS, print that long bitch out and be like, look at this.

• 52:01Speaker 05

  Right. And she, I think she, I think she knew she didn't have it, especially because her mom said it was like a great grandmother. It's not that far removed. You don't have anybody in your family who has some photos of her, you know, somebody that you can call and, you know. She said herself, well, I know I don't have enough ancestry to qualify and get tribal membership. Okay, so you know, I just, to me, it does feel like very convenient that she can,

• 52:32Speaker 05

  present it as if she just didn't know and she just was going along to get along. But I think she did know.

• 52:39Laci Mosley?

  Well, a lot of people agree with you, Fran, because they think it's weird that she didn't look into any of the real answers, like you just said. Was it because she suspected the truth and didn't want to know? Sometimes it's gotta be a little delulu. What does it mean to be authentically Native? Indigenous identity is complicated, but essentially, it doesn't matter if you claim to be Native. It matters if a tribe claims you to be one of them.

• 53:05Speaker 05

  Oh, they not like us.

• 53:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, they said, you know what? We good.

• 53:15Laci Mosley?

  We good.

• 53:15Speaker 05

  It's a no for me, dog.

• 53:17Laci Mosley?

  We're gonna pass.

• 53:20Speaker 05

  I love that. You know what? That I, and again, I think this is all speaking to the fact that she did know. She knew she probably couldn't actually withstand the scrutiny of an actual investigation.

• 53:34Laci Mosley?

  But sometimes it is complicated. Like, my family has Choctaw Indian descent, but it's likely because y'all maybe don't notice, but Native people did own slaves. So, not like we don't, like, people, all people are imperfect. Nobody needs to be violated because they're human, but y'all did have some slaves, champ. So, it's not based on physical appearance, obviously. It's not based on genetic testing, although you can do that kind of testing, and it might be useful in some cases. Senator Elizabeth Warren

• 54:11Speaker 05

  Oh, girl.

• 54:17Laci Mosley?

  Famously tried to use DNA results, which showed some evidence of Native American in her ancestry, probably six to 10 generations ago, to rebut Trump's fake Pocahontas nickname.

• 54:29Speaker 05

  Oh, God.

• 54:30Laci Mosley?

  Warren is not a member of any tribe, and DNA tests are not typically used as evidence to turn, like, to determine tribal citizenship. So she ended up apologizing for the DNA thing at a forum on Native American issues, saying she was sorry for the harm that she caused.

• 54:46Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. Again, this is interesting, because I didn't know that the DNA of it all doesn't really matter.

• 54:53Laci Mosley?

  Right. Like, we like you, we like you, we don't, we don't.

• 54:58Laci Mosley?

  And it's not based on the experiences of your upbringing, obviously, because many children were forcibly removed from their native communities by white people and later accepted back into their tribes when they wanted to return. You know, that's like the schools and stuff that they did. In any case, Elizabeth Hoover was not authentically native and joins the list of history's pretendians, including-

• 55:22Speaker 05

  Oh, that's a great name. I'm sorry, pretendians?

• 55:24Laci Mosley?

  Pretendians?

• 55:25Speaker 05

  That's, yeah.

• 55:26Laci Mosley?

  I kinda like that.

• 55:27Speaker 05

  That's a banger. I like that.

• 55:28Laci Mosley?

  Don't call me an actor. I'm a pretendian.

• 55:30Speaker 05

  No, I mean, I think, I just, I like that there is, I mean, I don't like it, but it is sad that there are so many that they have a word for it. But the word is very clever. I like a portman too. Whoever came up with that. Good job.

• 55:43Laci Mosley?

  Pretendian. Okay. Also love that her name is Elizabeth Hoover because now you get to go in the Hall of Fame. Lizzie's.

• 55:53Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:54Laci Mosley?

  Scammer Lizzie's.

• 55:55Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 55:56Laci Mosley?

  Okay, we got that one from Grey's Anatomy.

• 56:00Speaker 05

  Oh, I didn't know her name was Elizabeth too. And then I think of the girl with the, with the turtleneck.

• 56:05Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yes. You're talking about my queen.

• 56:10Speaker 05

  Well, Elizabeth Holmes.

• 56:11Laci Mosley?

  Yes, Lizzie Holmes. Her deep ass voice.

• 56:13Speaker 07

  Her deep ass voice.

• 56:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:15Laci Mosley?

  Lizzie Holmes. And now we have Elizabeth Hoover. And you know what? I'm gonna go ahead and throw you in there, Elizabeth Warren.

• 56:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:23Laci Mosley?

  We have a, we have a great Hall of Elizabeth scammers. We might have to honor them on the page. Cause it's, it's giving, don't name your baby Elizabeth unless you want them to, you don't want them to do crime, okay? That's a crime name. It's like, name me your baby Mets. Like, they're gonna do crime. What do you mean?

• 56:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:39Laci Mosley?

  So, the pretendians include- Iron Eyes Cody, AKA The Single Tear Crying Indian.

• 56:49Speaker 05

  That's the one I just talked about. Yes. I didn't know what his name was.

• 56:52Laci Mosley?

  Who was sad about litter in the 1970s, but was actually an Italian-American.

• 56:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, there he is.

• 56:58Laci Mosley?

  And his real name was Espera Oscar DeCorti.

• 57:02Speaker 05

  This is him.

• 57:03Laci Mosley?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 57:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:05Laci Mosley?

  Damn. Damn. Okay, friend.

• 57:09Speaker 05

  And see, and see, he has a little tan. He has like, almost like a red colored-

• 57:14Laci Mosley?

  Cause he's Italian.

• 57:15Speaker 05

  Right, but like, that's really fucked up. That's really fucked up. And how they braided his hair.

• 57:21Laci Mosley?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:22Speaker 05

  And they're like, just put some, put a little string in it, that's really gonna sell it. Pollution is a crying shame.

• 57:28Laci Mosley?

  Now, the message is.

• 57:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:30Laci Mosley?

  Good.

• 57:31Speaker 05

  No, the message is great. The message is great. You are just not the one to do it. We absolutely could have done this without the racist caricature. He's like, but how would I get my SAG-AFTRA card?

• 57:43Laci Mosley?

  Right. What do you mean?

• 57:45Speaker 05

  Trying to get that sweet, sweet insurance.

• 57:49Speaker 05

  I need a check too.

• 57:53Laci Mosley?

  So, the next pretendian is Sashine Littlefeather. They attended the 1973 Academy Awards on Marlon Brando's behalf. And declined his Best Actor Oscar in protest of Hollywood's depiction of Native Americans.

• 58:10Speaker 05

  Now, girl. She said, "It's wrong when y'all do it, it's okay when I do it."

• 58:17Laci Mosley?

  I never knew about this one. I thought she was a real Native woman.

• 58:20Speaker 05

  I didn't either.

• 58:21Laci Mosley?

  I thought she was standing on business.

• 58:22Speaker 05

  She said, "Rules for thee, but not for me." Wow, that is fucked up.

• 58:28Laci Mosley?

  Oh, and look at her in all of her Native drip.

• 58:31Speaker 05

  Uh-huh.

• 58:31Laci Mosley?

  Damn.

• 58:32Speaker 05

  And all of her like hoity-toity-ness, like, "Y'all are doing a bad thing."

• 58:37Laci Mosley?

  Making a statement. After her death, her family like revealed that her name was Maria Luis Cruz. And that she was Spanish Mexican and not Native American.

• 58:48Speaker 05

  And you know what her family is fucked up to? They said, you know what?

• 58:52Laci Mosley?

  Why y'all telling everybody?

• 58:53Speaker 05

  But they also said, "Let's wait till she dies. Let's spill her tea after she's gone."

• 58:58Laci Mosley?

  At this point, we could have just all believed it. I don't think we have to go back and tell her business. She did.

• 59:03Speaker 05

  But I'm of the mind like, why did you wait until she was dead?

• 59:07Laci Mosley?

  She must have not been very kind to her family.

• 59:09Speaker 05

  But then she should have done it before she died. You know, it doesn't really sting if she's not here.

• 59:13Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, but maybe she was a narcissist with a huge personality and they didn't wanna, they didn't wanna get in the way. I mean, she done made it to the Oscars yelling at white people.

• 59:25Laci Mosley?

  While being white.

• 59:26Speaker 05

  That is fucked up.

• 59:27Laci Mosley?

  No, well, she's Mexican, you know?

• 59:30Speaker 05

  I mean, there's white Mexicans.

• 59:31Laci Mosley?

  She's a little brat, like.

• 59:32Speaker 05

  Well, this isn't black and white.

• 59:33Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, she might be indigenous.

• 59:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, she could be, but she, she knew she was embellishing.

• 59:40Laci Mosley?

  Maybe she, okay, look, there are a lot of Mexican indigenous people.

• 59:44Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 59:45Laci Mosley?

  Like, I'm on the edge of being native. I'm pretty much native.

• 59:49Speaker 05

  But here's where she fucked up. She pulled this cartoony-ass name out of a hat when her name was Maria.

• 59:56Laci Mosley?

  Little Feather is crazy.

• 59:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, how do you solve a problem like Maria? You change your fucking name to, to Sashine Little Feather. That is messed up. That's messed up.

• 1:00:08Laci Mosley?

  Yo, it is a wild name to give yourself.

• 1:00:13Speaker 05

  Oh, and she was wearing the outfits too.

• 1:00:16Laci Mosley?

  I'm Lacey Buffalo. What are we doing? What are we doing? That's a caricature of native people and you, you got away with it. I guess outfits are really a part of it. You gotta.

• 1:00:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's one of those things where I, I, it, it seems like they are benefiting from the fact that if you are dressed in a certain way, the average person is probably not going to question it.

• 1:00:39Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 1:00:39Speaker 05

  You have dark hair, you have olive skin, you're wearing something that has, you know.

• 1:00:45Laci Mosley?

  And that dress eats. Like, she's a baddie.

• 1:00:47Speaker 05

  Oh, she's gorgeous. She's stunning.

• 1:00:49Laci Mosley?

  Why would we not believe a baddie?

• 1:00:51Speaker 05

  But she was.

• 1:00:51Laci Mosley?

  In turquoise and some drip.

• 1:00:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Laci Mosley?

  Okay, Miss Little Feather.

• 1:00:55Speaker 05

  Not telling the truth.

• 1:00:57Laci Mosley?

  It was a little lie, Little Feather.

• 1:00:58Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:00Laci Mosley?

  So, where is she now?

• 1:01:02Speaker 05

  You're talking about Elizabeth, okay?

• 1:01:05Laci Mosley?

  After the bombshell, I'm white announcement. Some of Elizabeth's former students wrote a letter demanding her resignation. The letter was signed by hundreds of students and scholars from UC Berkeley and other universities, along with members of Native American communities. It also called for her to apologize, stop identifying as indigenous, and acknowledge she had caused harm.

• 1:01:27Laci Mosley?

  So she did publish that long apology. It was because she was bullied to do so.

• 1:01:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Laci Mosley?

  But she still has that teaching job at Berkeley. She says, "I still did all that work. I did the research. I did all the learning. I did the teaching. And I'm not going to have all of that just canceled and thrown away because people are upset about this."

• 1:01:49Speaker 05

  You shouldn't have said it. Don't, don't say any of that, girl. That's for the group chat. She didn't need to tell us that.

• 1:01:58Laci Mosley?

  Teaching jobs in higher education are actually a hotspot for people pretending to be a different race. You know, transracial people and teaching positions are not only pretending to be something they're not, but acting like an authority on the matter. And you know, that's where we kick into Rachel Dolezal. Because she did come into a black space and then was like, "No, and I also need to be the president of Negroes."

• 1:02:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. And she changed her name, too.

• 1:02:20Laci Mosley?

  What was it?

• 1:02:21Speaker 05

  Oh, God, I don't know.

• 1:02:22Laci Mosley?

  In Ketchy?

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, something. I don't know. I don't, I don't remember what it was, but it was a very...

• 1:02:27Laci Mosley?

  It's something like that. It's like, "In Ketchy, I'm very black."

• 1:02:32Laci Mosley?

  Africa.

• 1:02:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, not, not cute.

• 1:02:36Laci Mosley?

  In Ketchy, Zimbabwe?

• 1:02:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know, scammers love, uh, like, putting on a culture as a costume, I guess.

• 1:02:44Laci Mosley?

  They all did it. Apparently, this is in the handbook. It's like, "No, you have to do this."

• 1:02:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Laci Mosley?

  Obviously, Ra- Rachel Dolezal.

• 1:02:50Speaker 05

  Listen, it's hard to get a job out here, but everybody that decides that they're gonna be a pretendian or, uh, you know.

• 1:03:00Laci Mosley?

  The economy is hard, okay? White people are like, "We gotta start being black now to get a job."

• 1:03:05Speaker 05

  That's, that's crazy.

• 1:03:07Laci Mosley?

  It's so hard for us to get employed and they were like,

• 1:03:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Laci Mosley?

  "We gotta start being black."

• 1:03:12Speaker 05

  Yeah. So it's like the pretendians and the new Negroes. So, yeah.

• 1:03:17Laci Mosley?

  So we know that Rachel was the head of Spokane, Washington's chapter of the NAACP and also a professor of African Studies at Eastern Washington University before her parents, her parents outed her as white in 2015. And outed her as white is crazy.

• 1:03:37Laci Mosley?

  Y'all, I've never, I've never come out, but um, I think it's time.

• 1:03:42Speaker 05

  Oh, well.

• 1:03:43Laci Mosley?

  I think it's time for me to come out.

• 1:03:45Speaker 05

  There's ever been any confusion about.

• 1:03:47Laci Mosley?

  I think it's time for me to come out as black. I was keeping this as a secret. Um, there's a lot of shame. I wanted to wait for my grandparents to pass away.

• 1:03:57Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 1:03:59Laci Mosley?

  But now I can tell you.

• 1:04:00Speaker 05

  I always knew. I always knew.

• 1:04:05Laci Mosley?

  Um, I don't still, I'm still not comfortable sharing it with everybody, so y'all keep this a secret.

• 1:04:10Speaker 05

  You're just telling all of your listeners. That, that'll keep the secret safe.

• 1:04:13Laci Mosley?

  Millions of people. Uh, but yes, I've been black this whole time and I'm really, and I'm sorry for the, the harm I caused.

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. For all the people you deceived.

• 1:04:23Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:24Laci Mosley?

  Cause I know they were tricked.

• 1:04:28Speaker 05

  They didn't know.

• 1:04:29Laci Mosley?

  Oh, Rachel, so we know. In February of 2024, Rachel was fired from another teaching position in Tucson, Arizona, um, after administrators found her OnlyFans account. I don't like slut shaming. So I don't agree with that one. But oh, yeah, she was going by Inkechi Diallo.

• 1:04:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:04:50Laci Mosley?

  That's how she changed her name from Rachel Dolezal. It's funny to me that her parents outed her as white during her life.

• 1:04:59Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I think that they had like lost touch with her, cause she had a documentary on Netflix.

• 1:05:03Laci Mosley?

  I saw it. She was taking them braids out all wrong.

• 1:05:08Laci Mosley?

  Why are you cutting whole micro braids out of your head?

• 1:05:11Speaker 05

  Cause you're not, she's not black. She don't know what she's doing. But I guess her parents had lost touch with her. And when they, when they heard about her working with the NAACP is when they came for her. Oh, okay. She, she said, I got a blue check on Instagram. She says, I'm not black, but I am blue.

• 1:05:30Laci Mosley?

  Amen. Okay.

• 1:05:33Laci Mosley?

  Listen, and she has black children. I feel bad for her little black children, because I know that must have been embarrassing for them.

• 1:05:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's, that's rough. It's hard, it's hard enough out here.

• 1:05:44Laci Mosley?

  It really is. And then your white mama telling everybody she black.

• 1:05:48Speaker 05

  I mean, that's white mom behavior, for sure.

• 1:05:51Laci Mosley?

  It really is. And you can always tell when somebody got a white mama.

• 1:05:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Laci Mosley?

  I know it's insulting, I'm sorry if it's insulting to y'all, but I, I'm currently dating someone mixed race and one of the first things I ask them, well, like, your mom's the white one. And they were like, bitch.

• 1:06:09Laci Mosley?

  I was like, am I wrong? And you're like, no, you're not wrong, but why would you say that?

• 1:06:15Laci Mosley?

  Oh, man. So that brings us to the end of a beautiful Native story. That was not Native at all, because everybody was white.

• 1:06:26Laci Mosley?

  Um, we always ask on this podcast, Fran, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug, share, social?

• 1:06:32Speaker 05

  I have nothing to plug. I've been taking an extended break from social media, uh, but I'm across social as Cheska Lee. I'm on TikTok as Francesca underscore Lee.

• 1:06:44Laci Mosley?

  I love your TikTok.

• 1:06:45Speaker 05

  Hopefully, hopefully I'll be back sooner rather than later. I'm trying to get these deadlines, trying to keep these lights on. So I said, let me take a break. Um, but yeah, I'm glad that I get to spend some time with you, though.

• 1:06:55Laci Mosley?

  Yes, I'm glad too. As always, if you want to see the photos of all of these white people.

• 1:07:05Laci Mosley?

  I was gonna say Native. They almost got me. They almost got me. They almost tricked me. Um, scamgodispod on Instagram. If you want to talk to me, scamgodispod on Twitter. If you want to follow me and my shenanigans, D I V A L A C I D, Valacy on all platforms. If you want to read my book, that is definitely, I tell you I'm black in the book, I don't lie. Uh, scamgodish, you can get that wherever you buy books. Or if you want the audiobook, you can get that online wherever. And all of the episodes of Scam Goddess are streaming now on Hulu. And all the episodes of Going Dutch are also streaming now on Hulu. Congregation, I want y'all to get out there and stay powwowing.

• 1:07:48Speaker 05

  And stay whoever you actually are. Be yourself.

• 1:07:53Speaker 05

  Be you. There's only one you, so be you.

• 1:07:57Laci Mosley?

  Friends like, no, don't stay powwowing.

• 1:07:59Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:08:00Laci Mosley?

  Stay being who you are.

• 1:08:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, stay, stay, whatever it is. Stay putting raisins in the potato salad. Stay, you know, stay true to who you are.

• 1:08:08Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, cuz whatever you are is beautiful. Embrace that.

• 1:08:15Laci Mosley?

  We can't all be beautiful, but, but, but you can be yourself.

• 1:08:20Speaker 05

  You can. Okay, y'all, stay being you.

• 1:08:26Speaker 05

  Or don't tell me about it if you don't want to.

• 1:08:31Laci Mosley?

  Scam Goddess. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.

• 1:08:49Speaker 06

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:09:17Speaker 07

  Underdog already has team picks, player props, money lines, spreads, you name it, they got it. But apparently, somebody over there said, you know what's missing? Screaming like a maniac about a rookie card on your couch. And we love them for that. Because Underdog now has rips. You get a digital pack, starting at just five bucks. You check the live odds, see which grails you could pull, then rip it open to reveal a real, physical card. And the grails are no joke. They have cards up to $125,000 in value and plenty to pull. From football and basketball to Pokemon, with new limited edition packs dropping regularly. Even cooler, you can decide to keep the card and Underdog will ship it straight to your home or sell it back instantly at 100% of its fair market value. And the cash goes right-

• 1:10:02Speaker 07

  Right in your account. No listing it online, no stranger low balling you in the messages. Just rip, reveal, and cash out instantly. Or make some room on your shelf. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Get five free rips packs when you deposit $5. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18 plus, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare.

• 1:10:26Speaker 06

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture. Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection.

• 1:11:09Speaker 06

  Common colds, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.