Fraud Friday: The Famed Forger w/ Eliot Glazer

In this week's Fraud Friday, Laci is joined by Eliot Glazer (Broad City, An American Pickle) to discuss Lee Israel, a well-known writer who turned to forgery fighting to survive after her declining career as an author. Plus, a group of lawyers and doctors are busted in a massive trip-and-fall scheme. Stay Schemin’! (Originally Released 09/20/2021) CON-gregation, catch Laci's TV Show, Scam Goddess, now on Freeform and Hulu! Order “Scam Goddess: Lessons from a Life of Cons, Grifts and Schemes" here: Hachette Book Group Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Eliot Glazer: @eliotglazer Research by Kaelyn Brandt SOURCES: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/lee-israel-can-you-ever-forgive-me-oscars-2019-true-story-richard-e-grant-a8758241.html https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a23084048/can-you-ever-forgive-me-lee-israel-true-story/ https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94461486 https://nypost.com/2018/10/15/meet-the-author-who-considered-her-forgeries-to-be-her-best-work/ https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/arts/lee-israel-a-writer-proudest-of-her-literary-forgeries-dies-at-75.html https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/attorneys-and-doctors-new-york-charged-defrauding-businesses-and-insurance-companies

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:01Speaker 02

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• 1:14Speaker 03

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• 1:57Speaker 03

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• 2:32Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays, where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess Vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the paywall, and as always, stay schemin'.

• 3:13Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, and we're back for another edition of Scam Goddess. And I am what? Yes, very what? Yes, excited, excited for today, because I really am. Um, I have done his podcast. Wait, I, this man is so funny. Um, I recently have had the pleasure to realize that he will be writing words for me. He is an actor, he's an amazing comedian and writer, and he's currently writing on season two of iCarly. So guys, congregation, please welcome Eliot Glazer.

• 3:50Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 3:51Laci Mosley?

  Elliot, what is that podcast called? Get your, why is this not on here?

• 3:56Speaker 05

  It's called You're Making It Worse.

• 3:57Laci Mosley?

  You're Making It Worse. It's a really funny podcast. I had a really great time with you guys, so.

• 4:02Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 4:02Laci Mosley?

  Yes, yes.

• 4:03Speaker 05

  Appreciate it.

• 4:04Laci Mosley?

  That's right, I did make it worse.

• 4:06Speaker 05

  No, you made it just fine.

• 4:08Laci Mosley?

  Come on, just fine, fine, fine, fine. Woo! Yeah, that's for the merry heads in the crowd. All right, Elliot, we probably gonna get sued. Mary, I hear her boots stomping towards my door right now.

• 4:20Speaker 05

  Is she, does she have, um, is she litigious?

• 4:24Laci Mosley?

  Ah, I don't know, probably not as much. You know, one of her husbands scammed her, ran off with a lot of her coins.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  Oh my god, that's right. Oh my god, poor Mary.

• 4:33Laci Mosley?

  You can't be marrying no sexy broke man. Sexy broke men know what they doing, just like sexy broke women. You can't do that.

• 4:40Speaker 05

  I love her so much.

• 4:41Laci Mosley?

  Y'all gotta be equally broke. If y'all both broke, that's great. We're talking on split at the end of the day, like the Hunt's ketchup bottle in the, in the, in the fridge, just maybe some mustard. You know, who's, who's gonna get, uh, that, that one egg skillet, you know, the skillet you can fry one egg in, like who's gonna get that, you know, like that's the kind of divorce I want. I don't want a divorce where it's like.

• 5:00Speaker 05

  You want kitchen supply divorce.

• 5:02Laci Mosley?

  Yes, kitchen supply divorce, bitch. So nobody want no mansion divorce. So nobody want no damn, who go get the boat? Like, who go get the baby? Half off the baby? No.

• 5:10Speaker 05

  That's really scary stuff, though. Like, I'm, I feel like everybody is like the child of divorce, you know, at least in like the nineties and on, every, like divorce is so common, but I can't imagine that it's like any less painful for anybody, any couple to have to actually go through, like break, like a breakup's destroying me. If a breakup destroys me, I can't even imagine the idea of like going through lawyers, I like, I don't, it just, it's wild, it's crazy to me.

• 5:35Laci Mosley?

  And it brings out the worst in people, like divorce makes people ugly when the coins are in play, honey, the assets are getting hidden. You know, people are coming after everything you've ever made, like, that's, uh, that's a little too much for me. I will say the only divorce that I've been a part of, I'm not gonna get like too specific with this, cause it ain't y'all business, but it was very chill. I just remember putting on some overalls and then I just never saw Mr. Tim again and that, that was cool.

• 6:00Speaker 05

  That's great, that's great. You weren't too, it wasn't too traumatic for you.

• 6:04Laci Mosley?

  No, no, I was like, bye, see y'all.

• 6:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, see, in my head, it would be like just a, a form of, I mean, I'm honestly, I'm just basing it on everything I've seen on like The Good Wife and The Good Fight, so I'm just basing it on Christine Baranski. But, you know, it sound, it just sounds torturous.

• 6:19Laci Mosley?

  No, I have a lot of friends who've been divorced, like, uh, kind of a millennial thing, like that first marriage hits a little too young.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, that's right.

• 6:27Laci Mosley?

  You try to do what your mama, your daddy told you to do, and you're like, wait a damn minute. I don't want to be with your ass.

• 6:34Speaker 05

  I don't feel like I know too many divorced people, but maybe that's like also a straight. I think that's probably more of a straighter thing, you know, divorced, whereas.

• 6:42Laci Mosley?

  The gays aren't getting divorced?

• 6:44Speaker 05

  I don't know. I feel like gay divorce is is a thing, but it's not as prevalent as straight. Obviously, like the the.

• 6:51Laci Mosley?

  Cause I feel like after Prop eight passed, the girls were probably getting a little too excited.

• 6:55Speaker 05

  And, you know. They overcorrected.

• 6:57Laci Mosley?

  The court, everybody was lit at the courthouse, you know, they went to the abbey, then they went to the LA County courthouse. You know, after like seven mimosas and then, you know.

• 7:08Speaker 05

  Yes. Yeah, it definitely popped off if you were looking to be committed. Guys were like, what? No, no, no, no, not interested.

• 7:17Laci Mosley?

  All right. Okay. Well, that's true. Like, the culture's a little different when it comes to commitment, for sure. Honestly, better.

• 7:23Speaker 05

  But I'm all about it. I'm all about domesticating and, you know.

• 7:27Laci Mosley?

  Oh, are you?

• 7:28Speaker 05

  I am. Yes, I very much.

• 7:30Laci Mosley?

  Elliot, okay.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 7:32Laci Mosley?

  You trying to, you trying to be wife? You trying to be a kept man? You trying to be husband, duck?

• 7:37Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 7:38Laci Mosley?

  You trying to get the government involved in your love life?

• 7:41Speaker 05

  That's right. I just want the paper.

• 7:43Laci Mosley?

  Right. That's the thing.

• 7:44Speaker 05

  I just want to certify.

• 7:46Laci Mosley?

  I, and honestly, I don't really fuck with the government, so marriage is becoming less and less appealing. I'm like, so now we've been boning a lot, and now we're gonna get the government involved? I feel like.

• 7:54Speaker 05

  I get, I get that argument. I really do. I get that argument and I understand that the part of me that wants, that craves like domesticated marriages, like steeped in like pilgrims and shit, you know, I'm like, I have shame.

• 8:07Laci Mosley?

  Bitch, I love you. Call Uncle Sam.

• 8:09Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 8:12Laci Mosley?

  Call Uncle Sam. He gotta get involved, cause we in love. I don't know. I feel like I just want the party, you know?

• 8:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want the party too.

• 8:21Laci Mosley?

  Because you get to have a whole weekend. You get to make people fly out, get hotels, spend money on dresses, match your swimsuits. They gotta buy your penis, uh, straws. They got, you know, everything. And, and you get to basically run them for a short period of time, you know, own them.

• 8:36Speaker 05

  Yeah. I just want something. I don't even care about the party. I just want to be like, I, I'm, I'm very like, uh, uh, I, I want to feel, I'm very like deep about it. I want like to feel the warmth and joy of like, speaking my love into, into, uh, into reality in front of my friends. And like, it's very romantic to me, even though I feel like it's all, you know, steeped in, in creepy traditions and like, deep, deep, deep white supremacy.

• 9:04Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 9:06Speaker 05

  Without a doubt.

• 9:07Laci Mosley?

  Owning a woman.

• 9:08Speaker 05

  As everything is. Yes, exactly.

• 9:10Laci Mosley?

  Boy, oh, boy. Okay. So Elliot, I have to ask you, like, what's your relationship with scams? Have you ever been scammed? Like, have you run a scam? Do you hate scams? Do you like them? It could literally be anything.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  I've, I'm, I'm not, I, I haven't been a scammer myself, but, um, this might be pretty basic, but I am interested in, um, the MLMs of it all. I think MLMs are fascinating. Um, and my favorite scam in thinking about it for the podcast was the Psychic Friends Network. And our, it was like Dionne Warwick.

• 9:40Laci Mosley?

  Oh, Lord, don't bring Sister Dionne out of here. Listen, me and her niece follow each other, don't you?

• 9:46Laci Mosley?

  Miss Dionne, shout out to Dionne. She, she still get shit for that. And she be clapping back. Yes, Dionne's very active on Twitter.

• 9:53Speaker 05

  Oh, I love, I love her on Twitter.

• 9:55Laci Mosley?

  I feel bad for saying Dionne. Miss Dionne. I can't do that to my auntie. Respect.

• 10:00Speaker 05

  It's fair. You gotta be, that's right.

• 10:01Laci Mosley?

  Okay. So tell me about that. Like, why does that intrigue you?

• 10:04Speaker 05

  I just think it's like, what a wild moment. I mean, between like the Psychic Friends Network and then also the like televangelists of that era, the scammers like Jim Baker, Tammy Baker, like, um, the, the televangelists who got, like the, the, the, the connection between Dionne Warwick and like psychics and psychic friends and also like, these televangelists getting you to send money their way. Like, all of it is so odd to me and like,

• 10:32Laci Mosley?

  Miracle Spring water.

• 10:33Speaker 05

  That's right. It just seems like such a clear scam and I can't believe so many people fell for it.

• 10:40Laci Mosley?

  Well, I think that. In our country, because we know the government is just gonna fuck us and we know that, you know, there's really no safety that we're all in the tight rope and at the bottom is just flames. Um, there's no net. I think that people really rely on hope or like having some kind of feeling of positivity when all the, because the math ain't never math in America, ever.

• 11:03Speaker 05

  You're right.

• 11:04Laci Mosley?

  You know, so at a certain point, you gotta just be like, I don't know. Magic? Jesus?

• 11:09Speaker 05

  Right, magic. That's right. That's the, literally like, that's how my therapist has put it. He said like, you know, the idea of like faith and religion and people relying on it, it, it's, it's a way to make sense of life. And like, if you don't have that, then you can, you could, if you don't have that or you don't have the ability to sit with that, then all you have is hopelessness.

• 11:30Laci Mosley?

  And that's harder to sit with.

• 11:32Speaker 05

  And that's harder to sit with.

• 11:33Laci Mosley?

  I am a Christian. I, you know, my mother would drag me if I didn't say something about me just saying Jesus and his chocolates. But, you know, he could put them shits on to come back, you know, it's like, it's time, girl. Do you see what's happening? Like, pull up, you know? Um, but, the, I think the reason that I'm really religious is because otherwise, like, where's the hope? You know, if you really-

• 11:57Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 11:57Laci Mosley?

  You know, like, I don't necessarily believe everything in the Bible is factual. However, you know, how do you get up every morning and get your ass out of bed when life is just pointless, you know?

• 12:07Speaker 05

  Right.

• 12:07Laci Mosley?

  So, everybody needs something.

• 12:09Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:10Laci Mosley?

  And, and look, it may not be religion, it might be, you know, Prozac, well, I've heard about Prozac, but it might be Will Bruchardt, it might be, you know, whatever the girls need. Um, and for you, it might be running, it might be, you know, doing something that gives you hope and, and, and a sense of purpose, whatever that is, so.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  But I think there's a difference between like, having faith and, and using religion as a way to like, give a, like, course, give your life a course and a trajectory. But then you look at people like Jim and Tammy Baker and, and it's like, the idea of mixing u- using religion as a way to just take money from people is so, so deeply dark and, and the darkest of-

• 12:51Speaker 05

  scams.

• 12:52Laci Mosley?

  But it's also brilliant because.

• 12:53Speaker 05

  Brilliant, yes.

• 12:54Laci Mosley?

  It's it's almost infallible logic wise because you know, everyone hopes to be in a financial situation where they don't have to worry about. Where the next meal is coming from, where rent is coming from. So if you see people who are steeped in religion and they become rich. That almost becomes life affirming of like, if I live my life for God, maybe I'm gonna have coins like Tammy and them too.

• 13:13Speaker 05

  Yes, yes.

• 13:14Laci Mosley?

  You know.

• 13:14Speaker 05

  I think the idea is like, I think everybody, especially in America, thinks that they're like, almost like it's it's it's almost Trumpy. The idea that like, just like him, or just like the bakers or something, there you're on the precipice of. Being super wealthy and like tying that into religion is brilliantly brilliantly manipulative.

• 13:36Laci Mosley?

  Who is that Houston mega church white guy?

• 13:39Speaker 05

  Joe Austin.

• 13:40Laci Mosley?

  Joel Austin, perfect example. Man's got mansions on mansions. Man is drip down, drip too hard, okay? Okay, Ragoo, Swagoo. And you know, people follow him because they believe like, oh, this man must be brilliant. Like, look at what he's done with the. Just the help of God and all of our coins.

• 13:59Laci Mosley?

  But then when you know, they had those hurricanes in Houston and they had those floods, he closed the doors of his church when people were like. People could be housed in here, they could be refuge. That's a fundamental of religion. It's like, it's supposed to be about charity. That's the reason that churches don't pay taxes. Even though I'm like, sis, what do y'all give it back? Like, put it on the ledger. I went to a great church that we definitely gave back. My pastor wrote. A recommendation letter for me for college. Mind you, our congregation was like thousands of people. Like, he was really like in it. Uh, shout out to Reverend Joshua, Shiloh missionary. But like, that's not every pastor. Like, when he was supposed to open the doors, he closed them. It's like.

• 14:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, that's the height of hypocrisy.

• 14:38Laci Mosley?

  Like, here's the church, here's the steeple. Joel was like, ah, no people.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  I just think there's like, I mean, I, I think there is a clear divide between people who are, who practice religion, like, like your pastor, like people who are in it for the right reasons and then the people who can use it and manipulate it against their own followers. Like that is the part that's just like Jimmy Swaggart or like, um, I don't know, Jerry Falwell or there's, I forget the name.

• 15:07Laci Mosley?

  You know a lot of the girls.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  I love them.

• 15:10Laci Mosley?

  You're dropping names. Okay.

• 15:11Speaker 05

  There's one of them who likes, who's famous for like, not just use, misappropriating like the finances, but actually bragging about how like Jesus gave him the, his like private jet and like people continue to give him money.

• 15:26Laci Mosley?

  It's like, I don't know if Jesus gave, I think it was us. We just had, right? We sent offers. I don't know if devil's, I think it was us.

• 15:33Speaker 05

  But that's to your point, but that to your point, like, uh, it's like people giving him money because he's like proven that there's wealth is like a, it's just a very American thing to think that if you follow, you're going to get the same thing.

• 15:47Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 15:53Speaker 00

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• 16:21Speaker 06

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• 16:49Speaker 02

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• 17:04Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 17:14Speaker 02

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• 17:45Speaker 00

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• 18:16Laci Mosley?

  Cards! So, you know, and let's get into our first segment. What's hiding fraud other than these weirdos? Um, so we got a letter. I need a fake name, Elliot, for this person.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  Okay, I'll give you the name Oliver.

• 18:35Laci Mosley?

  Oliver. May I have some more pot? It takes me right to Oliver Twist. So got, so Oliver says, "Love the show. Aw, some nice stuff. I'm reading it, but I don't ever read it on the show. I don't know why. I just like, it's nice for me, though. I like to read what y'all say." So it says, "I just wanted to share an interesting scam that happened at an antique mall on the west coast. The mall is a large building where antique dealers can rent or buy a space in which to sell items, and I'm one of the dealers there. Some years ago, there was a guy who sold vintage porcelain and metal signs, as well as car memorabilia. He had some very expensive signs, like a big gasoline station sign, Sinclair, Esso's, etc., and other car signs like Cadillac, Hudson, Ford, etc.

• 19:18Laci Mosley?

  These types of signs are highly collectible and people buy them like crazy, even though the prices are typically hundreds or thousands of dollars. He was selling a ton of old signs, or at least signs that appeared to be authentic. However, the staff at the antique mall started getting complaints from customers that the signs were identical to reproduction signs that are new, but made to look vintage. I guess there was a subtle thing that I can't identify, but like there was a difference between the true antique sign and the one that were made to look old. The staff asked the dealer to write on his tags that these signs were reproductions, and if he did not, they were gonna kick him out of the space. This went on for months. The dealer insisted the signs were real and refused when even presented with evidence. He eventually took the signs and left the mall, never admitting that he was in the wrong."

• 20:00Laci Mosley?

  So, she said she wanted to share this with the listeners because there's quite a bit of scamming that goes on in the antique and collectibles world, and buyers should really be careful to check out items at antique stores and carefully make sure that they're really old. Valuable pieces are not just some vintage look or reproduction item in China. Sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference. As a dealer myself, I never claim something is authentic unless I know that it is. Let the buyer beware." So, I'm of two minds here. One mind, don't, you know, you shouldn't be trying to pass off shit. You know, you putting tea on it, you putting it in the oven, you, you know, putting a little dust on it, you know, to, to make it look old.

• 20:39Laci Mosley?

  But also like, vintage collecting always kind of weirds me out as a black person, cuz it's like, you want stuff from an olden time, and those times were never good for black people. Like, there's a joke that Quinton Brunson wrote on BuzzFeed forever ago that was like, they're like, a white person was like, "If y'all could go back in time, like, where would you go?" And she was like, "The future, bitch, I'm black. Well, I won't, I don't want to go back to yesterday. It's bad."

• 21:02Speaker 05

  Right. When people talk nostalgically about like the past or like the good old days, it's like, yeah, for you. It was good for you. It would have been good for you, not for anybody else.

• 21:13Laci Mosley?

  It's weird. It's like a clear indication that you have no awareness of anybody else's human experience but your own. Like, I don't want to see an old school water fountain. That just reminds me of my people getting hosed or having to walk through the back. You know how many people probably got some vintage like Coles only signs and shit?

• 21:33Speaker 05

  That's a, well, that's a real, that's a real thing. Like those, that niche of like creepy weird old like racist paraphernalia is so scary. I mean, I remember in college going to a friend's house and it was like upstate and they were like normal people. And like, I thought like normal liberal people and in like my friend's kitchen, I saw the like, I, I don't, it was like those dolls that, those like statues that were like blackface, basically. You know, those, that like art style. And I was like, why do you have that in your home? It was so terrifying to me and I wanted, you know, I was like, yikes. It just freaked me the fuck out. What do you want that for?

• 22:16Laci Mosley?

  Like, are these your ancestors? You're like, watch over me racist.

• 22:21Laci Mosley?

  Keep my bridge. Like, I don't, it was just like, the chances of you getting something that is old, that wasn't either stolen or owned by people who are super fucked up is so rare.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 22:32Laci Mosley?

  That's why I always thought the Antiques Roadshow was so interesting. It's like, oh, my grandmother had this in the eighteen hundreds. I'm like, can I show up to the eighteen hundreds and be like, or to the Antique Roadshow and be like, hi, I am also an antique. People own me and my family. Like, what?

• 22:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a real, nostalgia can get real creepy real quickly.

• 22:51Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. And look, if you like to collect old shit, like live your life, do you, I'm not passing no judgment. But for me, it just gets a little weird sometimes.

• 23:01Speaker 05

  What do you feel about like, uh, like, um, not antiquing, but like what about like thrift, thrift store clothes?

• 23:07Laci Mosley?

  See, that's different for me because it's kind of eco-friendly to thrifts rather than just purchasing new things all the time. Um, you know, so I do thrift. Yeah, I do thrift. I do love to thrift. I always say, go to the expensive neighborhoods and thrift because the girls are, you know, throwing out the better things there.

• 23:27Laci Mosley?

  So, you know, I it's that's what I'm saying. Like, I can't completely pass judgment. I don't know who owned, you know, the vintage Chanel espadrilles I found. I don't know, maybe a bad lady, you know? Maybe a bad man, maybe a bad person, you know, but you know, so there's like, there's like, kind of like windows for all of that. So I'm definitely not passing judgment on it. I am like, like this, I am curious also like this woman, or you know, I think she identifies as one of the Oliver's, we've called her, she said, they threatened him. They were like, we don't think your pieces are real. Like, can you at least write that they're not? Or da, da, da, da. Antique people must be real nice because it sounds like y'all were like,

• 24:08Laci Mosley?

  you have to do this or leave. And he was like, no. And y'all like, oh, fine. And y'all just went back to your, you know, old china sets and, and just let him live for a little while.

• 24:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't, I don't really, I, I don't know what that, like, I don't really understand the joy of deducing how old something is.

• 24:27Speaker 05

  Like, who cares? I mean, do, who ca- who cares? I, I that, maybe that's narcissistic, but I'm just, I don't really get it. I'm, I guess unless you're like hunting for treasure, you know, it's like, who, I, I don't know. I guess I get heirlooms, but other people's old stuff, I don't want it.

• 24:41Laci Mosley?

  Right. At least if it's your granny's, you're like, oh, this is grandma or great grandma, Peepop, you know, like, okay, I get that. If it has some familiar root, but you're just like, this was some old dude in Kansas. And I, now I got all his tin cups. Why?

• 24:56Laci Mosley?

  Why do you want that?

• 24:58Speaker 05

  I, I don't want that. I, I am also like very averse to like dust. I just, when I think of like vintage stuff and antiquing, I just think of dust and like sneezing and sinus infection. And I just, I, I'm, I'm not, I'm out, I'm out.

• 25:14Laci Mosley?

  You know, I, I, I, it's each his own, you know, if you like some old shit out there, we not, we gonna, we not gonna throw shade on your old shit collector. You like to collect old shit, good for you, you know?

• 25:25Speaker 05

  Fake old shit, though, that, that is, to me, that's depressing. Fake old shit.

• 25:29Laci Mosley?

  I mean, is it fake if you don't know it's fake?

• 25:32Speaker 05

  I don't know. I'm thinking of stuff like.

• 25:34Laci Mosley?

  It's real to you. It's old to you.

• 25:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't know. If my mom, like, my mom has decent, no, she has good taste, but like, there's, there's some stuff where I'm like, no, like, don't, don't get something that like, clearly is, you know, was made in a, in a factory, but they're trying to make it look like rustic. I can't handle, that's very suburban, but like, I just can't stomach that.

• 25:55Laci Mosley?

  I mean, I'm from Texas, so that's like everything. We love to make something rustic. We love to put some rust on some new shit and be like, voila, like, you know? So, I mean, I get it, but you know, whatever y'all like, whatever you like, okay? I know T I ain't gonna knock on the door because his problematic fucked up ass got too much legal stuff going on. So, my favorite segment, Historic Hoodwings, where I am going to regale Elliot with a famous con or caper. We're gonna get his opinions all throughout. Maybe we like the guy, maybe we hate him, and we don't know yet. Uh, maybe it's group criminals, and you know, it's cute, a little boy band of, uh, miscreants, we don't know.

• 26:32Laci Mosley?

  So, Lee Israel was an author turned one of the greatest literary foragers of our time. So, we're already talking about foraging and we're already talking about fake shit, so why not continue? Needing a change of career, she fabricated hundreds of fake letters. Okay, so this is that movie that Melissa McCarthy.

• 26:50Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 26:50Laci Mosley?

  And honestly, a little boring.

• 26:53Speaker 05

  I didn't watch it. I saw the, the preview or the trailer and was like, this looks boring.

• 27:01Laci Mosley?

  It was like, ooh, she writing letters. Ooh, I gotta watch her write these letters. Ooh, a thrill, like, uh.

• 27:06Speaker 05

  Fake letters, ugh.

• 27:08Laci Mosley?

  Ooh. And people want these fake letters. Why are y'all in people's business? What you want? They let, they not talking to you.

• 27:15Laci Mosley?

  They not addressed to you. They're not for you. Why are you buying these letters?

• 27:19Speaker 05

  Oh, what a waste. I mean, truly, like, what a dusty waste.

• 27:22Laci Mosley?

  And that's why I love this, because I'm like, yes, girl, you better like rob the nosy people who want other people's letters, okay? Hostage was never assigned to you, okay? So, she fabricated hundreds of fake letters from famous figures of the past and for years evaded even the most scrupulous dealers. Her memoir, Can You Ever Forgive Me?, question mark, became the source of the inspiration in 2018 film that was with Melissa McCarthy. So, about Lee. Lee was born, uh, in a Jewish family in 1939 in Brooklyn. She graduated with a bachelor's degree from Brooklyn College in 1961. Lee found some success. Okay, this is Lee. Okay, Lee.

• 27:57Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 27:59Laci Mosley?

  Okay. This polka dot shirt looks like her hands look very tired from foraging like

• 28:06Speaker 05

  Busy.

• 28:07Laci Mosley?

  knuckles swollen, like digits are giving forgery. She been writing all her life.

• 28:14Speaker 05

  Yes, spindly fingers.

• 28:16Laci Mosley?

  Right, like she gotta work out them hands are strong cuz she been writing these letters. So Lee found some success as a freelance writer in the sixties and seventies, working for publications as the New York Times and Soap Opera Digest. What a different, very different. In nineteen sixty seven, she profiled Katharine Hepburn for Esquire shortly after the death of Spencer Tracy, Hepburn's great love. Lee later sold Hepburn's tear soaked letter about Tracy for two hundred and fifty dollars. However, she found her greatest success writing biographies. Later in the seventies and eighties, she wrote about the lives of actresses Tallulah Bankhead and journalist Dorothy Killigan, and later which made the New York Times Bestseller list in nineteen eighty. However, her third book found much less success. Hmm.

• 29:01Laci Mosley?

  So she was like, the girls aren't reading my books anymore.

• 29:03Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 29:04Laci Mosley?

  A little desperation.

• 29:04Speaker 05

  She needed to do something. Yeah.

• 29:07Laci Mosley?

  So in nineteen eighty three, the publishing company Macmillan handed Lee an advance for an unauthorized biography tell all about cosmetics magnet Estee Estee Lauder. I was about to say Estee.

• 29:18Speaker 05

  Lauderay.

• 29:20Laci Mosley?

  So now she's about to do this for Estee Lauder. Lauder caught wind that Lee was writing the book and offered her money to drop it. Damn, Estee Lauder, what you hiding?

• 29:29Speaker 05

  That's Paola.

• 29:30Laci Mosley?

  You know, maybe, maybe she's born with it. Maybe Estee Lauder got murders. Uh, you know.

• 29:38Laci Mosley?

  What are y'all hiding? I'm confused. Like, that's quick. They got wind that somebody was writing a book and instead of being like, oh, they gonna write a book about us, up our, you know, viewership, up our visibility. They were like, please stop right now.

• 29:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, and they pay, and if they offered her money, like, that's serious.

• 29:54Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, they were like, please, look, we don't, we'll give you this money, or we will have to kill you, like all the other people we killed before that we cannot have in the press.

• 30:02Speaker 05

  Oh, my god. And she got an advance for it, too. I mean, that means it was, maybe, I guess it was gonna, like, get some dirt on Estee Lauder, her, I would, I would guess.

• 30:12Laci Mosley?

  So Estee Lauder wrote their own memoir before hers could get out, which is also a way that they interfered cuz they were like, oh, this is the one from us.

• 30:19Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 30:19Laci Mosley?

  So who y'all gonna believe, her, that random lady, or us?

• 30:23Speaker 05

  Right.

• 30:24Laci Mosley?

  Here's a memoir with a little bit of tea.

• 30:28Laci Mosley?

  And I guess, you know, who's gonna buy two Estee Lauder memoirs? I watched both Fire Fest documentaries, but I don't know if I'm buying two Estee Lauder memoirs.

• 30:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, who, I mean, I didn't know anybody would care in the first place, but maybe, maybe she's,

• 30:41Speaker 05

  you know, maybe she is born with it. I don't know who's to say.

• 30:44Laci Mosley?

  That's Maybelline. They're like, you better not write shit about us.

• 30:46Speaker 05

  I know.

• 30:48Laci Mosley?

  So as a result, Lee was forced, so she rushed it, didn't work out, a lot of interference. In her memoir, Can You Ever Forgive Me?, Lee said, "I had never known anything but up in my career. I regarded with pity and disdain the short-sleeved wage slaves who worked in offices. I had no reason to believe life would get anything but better."

• 31:09Speaker 05

  She just thought that about life?

• 31:12Laci Mosley?

  That is the most privileged.

• 31:14Speaker 05

  And I'm like, okay.

• 31:16Laci Mosley?

  She said, "I was born winning, and I would look out at the pores on the street, and I was like, that could never be me."

• 31:25Laci Mosley?

  Are we supposed to like feel sad for you?

• 31:27Speaker 05

  I, I get that. I'm like, okay, and, and?

• 31:31Laci Mosley?

  Like, what is, what is, I just don't know what that was supposed to evoke, what that sentence was supposed to evoke out of me.

• 31:38Speaker 05

  I'm guessing she wanted you, she wants to like, get, you know, sort of, uh, uh, get you to empathize with the fact that she's about to pull a scam because she was bored with life?

• 31:49Laci Mosley?

  Wow. And look, Elliot can't even see these notes, and literally the next sentence is, "The failure, according to Lee, was the catalyst that led her to become a mastermind of criminal forgery."

• 32:01Speaker 05

  Oh, wow. That's what did it. That, I wonder if she still got that, that, that advance, though. I'm fascinated about like a book advance. Like, how much do you think one gets for a big book like that? Especially when it fails. Like, was it even worth it? Was she, was she un-hireable? Like?

• 32:16Laci Mosley?

  I don't know. I feel like, you know, publishing companies, like she had had some good books behind her and then obviously a flop. And then this one was supposed to pop and as they got in the way of that. She probably should have just negotiated a deal with them. They're a big company. I would have been like, okay, well, uh, y'all at least got a quadruple this advance or something.

• 32:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, clearly she wasn't like some sort of, you know, she wasn't following like journalistic ethics if her next move was to, if she was refused the bribe, but her next move was to full pull a full bones, full blown scam.

• 32:47Laci Mosley?

  Right. She said, look, I refuse the bribe. Then I started robbing people, you know, you see how it works. Y'all follow me? Y'all tracking? Okay. So the highlight of Leah Israel's career, after Estee Lauder biography failure, Leah's life collapsed around her. She already had the reputation of being an alcoholic and difficult to deal with, and recent events certainly didn't help. So I will say that I don't like alcoholic and difficult to deal with being in the same sentence. Like, there's a lot of very nice alcoholics, a lot of people who are wonderful people who are in recovery. So the, that's from the article. But they were just saying like she was hard to deal with. So she went on welfare and too became surrounded by bills and she had a sick cat, Doris.

• 33:30Laci Mosley?

  See, and she was unable to even pay a forty dollar vet bill. That's the thing, like, I love my cat, but like, animals getting sick.

• 33:45Laci Mosley?

  That's expensive.

• 33:47Speaker 05

  It is expensive. It's expensive.

• 33:49Laci Mosley?

  Like, shout out to y'all taking care of our animals, getting them a new hip, you know?

• 33:55Laci Mosley?

  Getting them a, getting them a new paw.

• 33:57Speaker 05

  It's hard.

• 33:58Laci Mosley?

  That's, and I know it's because you love them and you know, but when I have donated to friends who, uh, you know, were comedians and like, we're like, I gotta pay this surgery bill for my dog. And I completely understand because I'm like, sheesh.

• 34:11Speaker 05

  I mean, you, we love them. We love our fur babies.

• 34:14Laci Mosley?

  But it's not a real baby. So then you're like, damn, I'm over here shelling out of these medical bills.

• 34:20Speaker 05

  I know it's hard. That's why, I mean, that's, that's why you have to choose. I think you have to choose carefully. And I will tell you that after eleven years with my wonderful dog Atticus, who passed in twenty twenty.

• 34:31Laci Mosley?

  Oh, I'm sorry.

• 34:32Speaker 05

  No, it's okay, but it, the bills really added up and I had to think long and hard before I got another one. And that's why I got insurance and that's why I got insurance, honestly, because it just. Yeah, yeah, but I there's not I wouldn't have refused. That's the pro. That's the thing. I don't know what I would have refused to pay for Atticus's health unless it was like, you know, terminal or something that was unnecessary, but it's hard to say no, it's hard to say no to that.

• 35:00Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, like if you wanted a BBL or something like you didn't have to do that, but

• 35:04Speaker 05

  Right, right, right.

• 35:06Laci Mosley?

  But but but in all seriousness, like y'all be nice to your vets. I have a friend who's a vet. They have a very high suicide rate like if if your pet dies, it's it's most likely not the vet's fault. Like you can't go in there and rail on the vet. Okay, they doing the best they can to save your your fur babies. Okay. Um, just a PSA, the more you know. So back to Lee. But in nineteen ninety, several years after the lottery fiasco, Lee found a solution of sorts. We told NPR in our two days, two thousand eight interview, it happened incrementally like most evil things do. I don't know if I call fake and letters evil, but

• 35:38Speaker 05

  I don't think it's evil. Okay.

• 35:40Laci Mosley?

  I went to the library. Oh, the beginning of crime, the library.

• 35:46Laci Mosley?

  And I was given a bunch of letters, which I should not have been given in a non-secure area. Okay, yeah, because there are letters like whoever's working at the library ain't making enough money to give a fuck about you looking at some letters. They're like, here you go, bitch, go off.

• 36:00Laci Mosley?

  Going back to my, you know, desk to tell people to shh and get coffee. So she took a few Fanny Bryce letters, stuck them in her sneakers and sold them to a bookstore called Aggraci on the east side of Manhattan. Quick context on Fanny Bryce. She was a nineteen twenties and thirties American comedian, illustrated song model. What is an illustrated song model? I don't know.

• 36:21Speaker 05

  Illustrated song model?

• 36:23Laci Mosley?

  That's three words that I've never seen in a sentence together.

• 36:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, those don't work.

• 36:27Laci Mosley?

  She drew songs. She was a model for songs. They drew her while they played the bops.

• 36:33Speaker 05

  Is song capitalized?

• 36:37Laci Mosley?

  And so she was also a singer, theater and film actress who made stage, radio and film appearances. She was also the subject of the musical Funny Girl.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  Funny Girl. Yeah, that's right. That's Barbara Tracy.

• 36:48Laci Mosley?

  Wow, you know.

• 36:52Speaker 05

  I haven't seen it.

• 36:52Laci Mosley?

  It's so sexist where they're like, damn, this bitch actually is funny. Let's write a musical about her because she the only one.

• 36:59Laci Mosley?

  You know, women aren't funny. We gotta write a musical about her. It's undeniable. So she sold letters for forty dollars apiece. For the first time in a long time, I had some jingle in my jeans. She said, okay.

• 37:12Laci Mosley?

  Well, I'll write that. Now, I think you want a little more than a jingle. I think you need a rustle of paper. But, okay, jingle. We'll take it. Lee felt no guilt about the theft as the letters were from the realm of the dead. Doris and I were alive. True. After she sold a few letters, she discovered that she could increase their value if she improved the content. So she pulled out an old typewriter and after the yours Fanny Bryce signature of a couple of letters, she added a few sentences as a P S. So she first started with just like seasoning the letter. So it was still a real letter, but she went and she she put some Lowry's on it. You know, she dipped it in some mumbo sauce and and gave it to the girls.

• 37:55Laci Mosley?

  So I want like, I want to know what these P S's are. It's like, P S, I am very horny. Like, what's this P S? That's making the letter so spicy.

• 38:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, right. Still funny.

• 38:07Laci Mosley?

  P S, I had a ate some last night. It was fun. Like, what what is making the letter tastier, I wonder? So what was before a forty dollar letter, she would sell for fifty to a hundred dollars a pop. After a time, Lee stopped selling letters, realized she had the power and ability to just forge creations of her own. So then she was like, well, fuck buying these boring ass letters and just seasoning. I will get out and write my own.

• 38:31Speaker 05

  She's gonna make her own.

• 38:32Laci Mosley?

  Her skills as a biographer and a researcher gave her a near perfect ability to mimic the tone of authors that she was impersonating. Prominent figures of the past became fictionalized characters for her to mold on her typewriter. To add additional authenticity to her forgeries, Lee purchased other secondhand typewriters, tore out vintage paper from the backs of period journals and libraries and typed them on them. And she scoured old publications for published letters from her subjects to mine idiosyncrasies and signatures.

• 39:00Speaker 05

  Wow, that that's a full blown scam. Pulling out papers from books in libraries, like, that's real. That's some real effort.

• 39:07Laci Mosley?

  She in there.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  She's pulling out papers from books in libraries.

• 39:12Laci Mosley?

  Oh, I'll J. Fucking up the whole Dewey Decimal System.

• 39:16Speaker 05

  Oh, my god.

• 39:17Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, get out pieces of paper. They're like, oh, do you want to take that one? Lee, you gonna rip that? Oh, no, no, no. I got everything I need.

• 39:25Speaker 05

  Also, like, by the way, go to an art supply store, get some paper, get some, like, old paper, you know, like, you don't need to rip them out from, from the library.

• 39:36Laci Mosley?

  Okay.

• 39:36Speaker 05

  But I love it all the time.

• 39:37Laci Mosley?

  If people are testing the paper for acidity and stuff.

• 39:40Speaker 05

  Oh, yes.

• 39:41Laci Mosley?

  Then it's not gonna be as good as an old book. She's gotta go get the old shit.

• 39:45Speaker 05

  You're right. You're right. You're right.

• 39:46Laci Mosley?

  You know, yeah, she could have poured some tea on it and put it in the oven, but it's not gonna hit.

• 39:50Speaker 05

  You're right.

• 39:52Laci Mosley?

  You know?

• 39:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. Is that the way to do it? You put tea on it? Is that, that's a thing, right?

• 39:57Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I mean, if you were seventh grade.

• 39:59Speaker 05

  Right.

• 40:01Laci Mosley?

  But this, I'm like, you know, I think that was good. I like that.

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• 42:34Laci Mosley?

  And fraud. So she ended up acquiring so many typewriters that she had to rent out a storage locker to store them as well as label them with names such as Humphrey Bogart and Noel Coward as a reminder of which to use. So she really did her research. Like she was like, what kind of typewriter would they have? What would the Js look like? What would the Ls look like? Does it scroll all the way when you hit it? Like she, she really, I mean, she was working hard for 40, 50.

• 42:59Speaker 05

  She devoted, yeah.

• 43:00Laci Mosley?

  Says, you need to up.

• 43:02Speaker 05

  That is a lot of work for that much. Yeah.

• 43:04Laci Mosley?

  So when she went to buyers, Lee touted a story about a dead cousin who left her a large number of letters. The autograph dealers were spectacularly incurious. Hmm. So the content of the letters was interesting enough to have considerable value, but mundane enough not to attract the attention, attention of suspicious scholars. Over a period of three years, Lee forged over 400 letters.

• 43:26Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 43:27Laci Mosley?

  So also tying back thematically in this episode to the beginning. Too much homosexuality caused problems.

• 43:38Speaker 05

  Jesus.

• 43:42Speaker 05

  That's where it all starts. That's where it all starts.

• 43:44Laci Mosley?

  When does it not?

• 43:47Laci Mosley?

  So Lee's Noel Coward letters were some of her most popular and convincing work, but these were the letters that began the beginning to the end. Noel Coward context. Noel Coward was a gay English playwright, composer, director, actor, and singer known for his wit and flamboyance. And his plays included Private Lives and Blythe Spirit, which is one of my favorite plays. I played Madame MacCardy. In competition theater in Texas.

• 44:11Speaker 05

  Love it.

• 44:12Laci Mosley?

  And I won best actress.

• 44:16Laci Mosley?

  So you know, I love me some, I see Angela Lansbury, shout out. Wow, I guess this is my theater nerds coming out. This has never happened. So Lee said, it was a very good coward. It was better coward than coward. Coward didn't have to be coward. I had to be coward and a half. That's what she said. Several of Lee's letters were even published. And so you call yourself better than Noel Coward says? Nobody else said this?

• 44:43Speaker 05

  Well, she says it.

• 44:45Laci Mosley?

  It's giving Kanye. It was like, I'm the greatest, you know, I had to be greater than the great. Okay, so several of Lee's letters were even published in the Letters of Noel Coward in two thousand seven. Over a decade after Lee was caught for her crimes. So they were like, these are still cute, like. We'll publish them. However, she became a little too bold with Coward's nods to homosexuality and the casualness of the language he used during the time period. And homosexuality was a jailable offense.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 45:16Laci Mosley?

  So Lee herself is also a queer woman. She's gay. So she, she may have dipped a toe a little too deep.

• 45:26Speaker 05

  Just ask a friend, Lee. Ask a friend.

• 45:29Laci Mosley?

  Hey y'all, it's me, Noel Coward. I saw a young gent at the pub. My ass pulsated. Like, wait, like, how far did you go? How far did you go?

• 45:40Speaker 05

  But she went, she went, she went there.

• 45:43Laci Mosley?

  So this put buyers on high alert and soon after a dealer found an acronistic seal on several Dorothy Parker letters that he bought from Lee. He contacted Lee and demanded five thousand dollars in exchange for not testify against her in front of a grand jury. So he's also a scammer. He was like, bitch, I know these letters are fake, but we could keep the like, we keep this on the low. For the, the low price of five thousand dollars.

• 46:09Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 46:10Laci Mosley?

  And here's the thing about bribes. You can't ever let anybody bribe you because once you start the bribe, when does the bribe end?

• 46:18Speaker 05

  Right. How, you can't guarantee that a secret lasts forever.

• 46:22Laci Mosley?

  Like they might, next time they eat another five K, be like, hey, girl, it's me again, your briber.

• 46:28Laci Mosley?

  Hope you have a good Tuesday. Uh.

• 46:30Speaker 05

  Picking up where we left off.

• 46:33Laci Mosley?

  With bribes.

• 46:35Speaker 05

  Right.

• 46:36Laci Mosley?

  So yeah, actually, uh, my AC broke and the heating and repair man said it's gonna be a smooth eight thousand. I got an HVAC, so.

• 46:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think blackmail is like a clean beginning and end, you know, it's not finite.

• 46:51Laci Mosley?

  No.

• 46:52Speaker 05

  When does it end?

• 46:53Laci Mosley?

  And people who blackmail folks, here's the thing, the only way to do blackmail, in my opinion, is if you have a physical piece of evidence that you are willing to trade for the monetary amount. That way, both of y'all are at peace, there's no copies, all of that. However, I just think if you try to blackmail people, some people will be like, well, I guess I gotta kill you now, like.

• 47:15Speaker 05

  But also don't, but also if you're blackmailing somebody with some sort of object that can in some way or form be replicated, then you never really know that yours is the only copy. And that's why I never buy that in like, I never really buy that in like movies and stuff where it's like, this is, this is that you promise is the last, the only copy. Yes, I promise. Okay, the end.

• 47:37Laci Mosley?

  Thanks so much.

• 47:39Speaker 05

  No, any, that's, that just can't work that way. It's forever. I'd be in fear for the rest of my life.

• 47:45Laci Mosley?

  Blackmailers are honestly the boldest scammers because I would never blackmail anybody for anything because my fear is they're gonna be like, well, we can, all right, get the, like, we gotta go do a murder, like.

• 47:57Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 47:58Laci Mosley?

  That's the only way to end blackmail.

• 48:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, to make you to make you keep you quiet forever.

• 48:03Laci Mosley?

  Forever. Have you sleeping snoozing with the catfish?

• 48:06Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 48:07Laci Mosley?

  With the goddamn crabs and lobsters.

• 48:10Speaker 05

  Blackmail is forever. It just is.

• 48:14Laci Mosley?

  Diamonds are forever. Blackmail is forever. No, no, don't do it. So with such threats, Lee stopped fabricating fictional letters, though she did not end her forgery career. Okay, you had a pivot. Good scammer. She went back to stealing.

• 48:30Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. From what?

• 48:33Laci Mosley?

  Libraries, probably.

• 48:35Speaker 05

  Oh, my God, this woman in the library.

• 48:38Laci Mosley?

  So this time institutions such as Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and the New York Public Library, she went there and started ganking them.

• 48:45Speaker 05

  Which I don't know. The hottest spots, too.

• 48:48Laci Mosley?

  They got the best loot.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  Literary spots.

• 48:51Laci Mosley?

  They got the best loot.

• 48:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, you think she would like fly under the radar, at least try.

• 48:56Laci Mosley?

  So she'd go in, examine letters, and figure out how to create the perfect forgeries of them. Then she'd go home, create her replica, and return to the replace the real letter with her fake. An old bartending acquaintance named Jack Hawk then fenced the letters for Lee. She later discovered Hawk was keeping more than his fair share. Another contributing factor to Lee eventually getting caught. Okay, of course, Jack was keeping more than his fair share. What do you think this is? He's the middle man.

• 49:20Speaker 05

  Of course, that's right.

• 49:22Laci Mosley?

  You met him in a bar, sis.

• 49:26Laci Mosley?

  You met somebody in a bar. Y'all had some whiskey needs and you say, hey, do you want to help me do robbery? What do you think if he said absolutely, yes, he's gonna rob you? He's not your cousin. He's not the homie.

• 49:37Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 49:38Laci Mosley?

  He's not your husband. We could be like, Jack, what did you what'd you bring home tonight? Like?

• 49:42Speaker 05

  Oh, my God, it's true. Yeah, God, wild.

• 49:46Laci Mosley?

  So still, the scheme struggled on until David H. Lorenz, an author, and or excuse me, an autograph dealer in New York, discovered that an Ernest Hemingway letter he had been sold was actually a part of a Columbia University collection.

• 50:01Laci Mosley?

  So here's the thing about old stuff. You know Tiffany Diamond, like let's get, you know, all the things. All these collections are things that have been looted. And then you put it in a museum, you're like, look at what I stole. And I put it in a nice box and it's got good lighting and it's gonna stay preserved. Y'all come in here and pay a nominal fee to take a picture next to the thing that I stole. Cause like, how can you own something that somebody else made and they're gone?

• 50:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, why do you want that?

• 50:31Laci Mosley?

  Cause you got good girls in to take a look at it. Look, I went and looked at Mona Lisa's old little ass. And I'm like, this is it? This is it? For real?

• 50:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was small. That is a smaller piece than you'd expect.

• 50:42Laci Mosley?

  It's small as hell and dusty, okay?

• 50:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, it, yeah, but that, yeah, that's the thing about museums. It's like there are museums that are really fun and thoughtful and like engaging in, in, in a different way. And not even talking about like avant garde art or experimental art. It's just like the way a museum lays its, can be laid out. And then there's just, like, there's just parts of the Natural History Museum in New York that are dusty. It's just dusty and old and it's like, I, well, who cares?

• 51:11Laci Mosley?

  And so much of it is theft. They'd be like, this came from the tribes of, give it back to the tribes. What you mean this came from? Y'all stole it. That's, that's the favorite scammer word of, of old, uh, you know, colonial thieves. Discovered. We discovered this in the hands of a brown person and we yanked it away from them. Like, what are you talking about? Y'all didn't discover this shit. Like, can, uh, uh, like, and when does discovery end? I think I would be less upset with discovery if I could go next door to my neighbor's apartment and discover some of their shit. Like, when, when do we say discovery ends?

• 51:48Speaker 05

  I don't know if there's a point.

• 51:49Laci Mosley?

  Do I have to dig it up? Do they have to be dead? Do they have to be old? Can I go to the nursing home and discover, you know, your auntie's pearls? Like, where, where does it? When does discovery stop and theft end? Or, you know, theft again?

• 52:03Speaker 05

  Things just show up somehow. They just show up.

• 52:05Laci Mosley?

  Right. Like, I'll put your shit, I'll put your Chanel bag in a glass box and keep it in good lighting. Can I discover it now? I would love to discover things. It's cheaper, cheaper than buying. So, from there, the FBI finally caught up to Lee and her associate and were able to uncover more of her forgeries. The F, the B and the I were, look.

• 52:30Laci Mosley?

  Sometimes we have episodes where the FBI gets involved, like our coupon episode that recently came out. And I'm like, FBI, y'all don't got more important things to do?

• 52:41Speaker 05

  This? You're staking out libraries? Again, it all just goes back to libraries for me.

• 52:46Laci Mosley?

  You staking out libraries, post offices, like McDonald's with my coins, with my tax money? Like, y'all better be defusing a bomb somewhere, bitch. What? We got too many people in the FBI. If y'all got enough agents to go out here and start looking at some paper.

• 53:07Speaker 05

  Going after her, going after her.

• 53:09Laci Mosley?

  Like, what, what is this? How does this help anyone? Like, oh, you got paper that wasn't real. Oh, you got wine that was fake, like the Rudy Kerknows scam? Like, wine, paper, coupons, why?

• 53:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's like, I mean, it's, what do they call it? Um, white collar crimes?

• 53:26Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 53:27Speaker 05

  Is that a white collar crime?

• 53:28Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Defund the FBI. Y'all got too much money and too many resources if this is what y'all doing with y'all goddamn time. I thought y'all was like Olivia Pope is scammed. I thought y'all supposed to be B six thirteen. I thought y'all supposed to be stopping global terrorism or something. Y'all over here looking at paper.

• 53:44Speaker 05

  It's a library.

• 53:45Laci Mosley?

  Y'all at the library.

• 53:48Laci Mosley?

  Like, like instead of getting a card at the li- the city library, y'all flash the FBI badge. We here on official business. What? It's a library. Yeah, they got too much time on their hands. I'm, what? Bitch, y'all staking out Barnes and Noble. This is ghetto. So, the FBI gets involved, they have to be in the eye, and they finally catch up to Lee and her associate. I guess they probably went to the bar.

• 54:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 54:14Laci Mosley?

  And they were able to uncover her forgeries as well as return the real letters to their proper homes. Proper homes.

• 54:21Speaker 05

  Another more libraries.

• 54:23Laci Mosley?

  So she pleaded guilty to one count, like honestly, like she rewrote the letter. So it's not like I couldn't read what it said, like is what else are you horny for? You think some dead skin cells of no coward on it like you don't rub it on your nipples like what? If you could read the letter, you could read the letter. Who cares?

• 54:41Speaker 05

  Right.

• 54:41Laci Mosley?

  It's like a textbook. You know what I mean? Things in the textbook are copied, well, one are lies and also are copied from original documents. I've never touched the real Declaration of Independence, nor do I want to. Have I read the bitch? Yes.

• 54:56Speaker 05

  Cause you had to.

• 54:57Laci Mosley?

  And I was never like, oh, wish I could rub myself on this, the real one. I want to see John Hancock in person. What like?

• 55:07Laci Mosley?

  Like, what does that do for you?

• 55:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:09Laci Mosley?

  Pouring. So she pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to transport stolen property across state lines for profit in nineteen ninety-three and was sentenced to six month house arrest with five years probation.

• 55:21Speaker 05

  Did you say, what'd you say? House arrest?

• 55:23Laci Mosley?

  Six months house arrest. Which I'm glad that they didn't, um, it, house arrest still costs the city money, but I'm glad that they didn't put her in jail because that costs us even more money. But also like, what does this probation entail? Do you have to do community service or you're not allowed at libraries anymore? They got a picture of your face up, you know, at the New York Public like-

• 55:44Speaker 05

  Even made money off the movie.

• 55:46Laci Mosley?

  She must have, cause she sold the book. She wrote the book.

• 55:49Speaker 05

  Oh, okay. So she would-

• 55:50Laci Mosley?

  So she probably had to sell the rights.

• 55:52Speaker 05

  So she probably spent house arrest writing the book that so that she only made money.

• 55:57Laci Mosley?

  I love that for her. I hope that's what she did.

• 55:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:00Laci Mosley?

  So in addition to the probation, Lee was also barred from many libraries.

• 56:08Laci Mosley?

  Sis can't get a library card.

• 56:09Speaker 05

  The ultimate punishment.

• 56:11Laci Mosley?

  They said reading is fundamental, but not for you bitch.

• 56:16Laci Mosley?

  You're never gonna flip a page again. You're not gonna have the joy of smelling a book that's been in so many people's homes.

• 56:23Laci Mosley?

  You're never gonna feel that soft plastic on the outside of the book that's keeping it intact. You'll never know these joys again. Can she go to Barnes and Noble?

• 56:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, right. Let's go to a bookstore.

• 56:35Laci Mosley?

  It's also the internet. Is she banned on Kindle?

• 56:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 56:39Laci Mosley?

  She can't buy Kindle.

• 56:41Speaker 05

  She can't use the nook.

• 56:42Laci Mosley?

  It was, I probably was like, bitch, log off. Can't have none of these books.

• 56:49Laci Mosley?

  After her sentencing, she went to work as a copy editor for Scholastic, so she's still got jobs.

• 56:54Speaker 05

  Jobs, jobs. She's still got jobs. Wow.

• 56:57Laci Mosley?

  I mean, she's talented. She's obviously a very good writer.

• 57:00Speaker 05

  And a good scammer.

• 57:01Laci Mosley?

  Right. And so in two thousand eight, I'm sure Scholastic isn't like, let's check into your history as a book thief. They don't give a fuck, you know? They just trying to make that book fair coin. Did you ever go to a book fair? Did you have that in school?

• 57:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think we had.

• 57:12Laci Mosley?

  I loved the book fair. My mom would give me cash. I'd go in there, ball out on some Junie B. Jones. You know?

• 57:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:22Laci Mosley?

  I loved a book fair. Buy a ruler that I never measured shit with.

• 57:26Speaker 05

  Weren't those like thrown by the like Scholastic, right? Like the book publisher? Yeah, those are fun.

• 57:31Laci Mosley?

  It was a scam. They were like, we'll give y'all a cut, let us set up in y'all's school and get these books for these little babies. And I fell for it, because you also got to get out of class. And that was like the real allure of the book fair. We were like, oh, we get to skip class? I'd be in there looking at everybody like, hmm. Highlights? Don't mind if I do.

• 57:54Laci Mosley?

  I was trying to stay out of class as long as possible. So, I mean, okay. So, Lee wrote in her memoir, "The forged letters were larky and fun and totally cool." They weren't cool, girl. They were probably fun for you, but none of this is cool. It's very boring.

• 58:09Speaker 05

  Not cool, no.

• 58:10Laci Mosley?

  I'm snoozing. I'm hitting snooze. Uh, I still consider the letters to be my best work. I was better writer as a forager than I'd ever been as a writer. Okay, so you're like a cover band for old people letters.

• 58:24Speaker 05

  She found her niche.

• 58:25Laci Mosley?

  Very specific niche.

• 58:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 58:28Laci Mosley?

  In twenty fourteen, Lee Israel died of complications from melanoma, a cancer of plasma cells. Um, or I'm sorry, that's myeloma, excuse me, um, at age seventy five. Her obituary, the lead FBI investigator on her case Carl Burrow called brilliant. Did she write her own joint? That was her final piece? She like wrote her own? She was like, Lee.

• 58:47Speaker 05

  Obituary?

• 58:48Laci Mosley?

  A bad bitch.

• 58:51Laci Mosley?

  Queen of the typewriters.

• 58:55Laci Mosley?

  Like, eh, I love it. And also, like, FBI, y'all was, why are you reading her obituary?

• 59:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, what are you, what are you doing there?

• 59:05Laci Mosley?

  Y'all were, y'all were really obsessed. Boring. So though many of her fakes have been recovered, the FBI admits that many are likely still in circulation.

• 59:21Speaker 05

  Very spooky.

• 59:22Laci Mosley?

  Very spooky, honey. Okay, Lee, uh, good for you, I guess, child.

• 59:30Speaker 05

  And she pulled it off. And she didn't get punished.

• 59:33Laci Mosley?

  She probably would have got away with it too if it wasn't for that pesky bar jack.

• 59:37Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 59:39Laci Mosley?

  I imagine Jack going into the bookstore like lit off like, uh, six beers and seven whiskey shots. He's like, yeah, I got. I got a letter for you guys. And they're like, okay, Jack. And he's like, yeah, I got this for my cousin. He was friends with, uh, George Abraham, excuse me, uh, with Lincoln Washington. Anyway, they like to have, ain't no sex. Y'all want it?

• 1:00:07Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:00:09Laci Mosley?

  Like what?

• 1:00:12Laci Mosley?

  All right, Lee, you know, if it was fun for you, then I'm happy for you.

• 1:00:17Speaker 05

  It was a gas.

• 1:00:19Laci Mosley?

  And it's time for scammer of the week. This is where we highlight one honorary charlatan group of thieves, you know, band of miscreants. We don't know. Uh, maybe like, maybe we hate them. Let's see. So scammer of the week is about people who were busted by the authorities in a racket involving corrupt doctors and lawyers using hundreds of unhoused individuals in a thirty one million trip and fall scheme that ran from January twenty thirteen to April of twenty eighteen, five years.

• 1:00:48Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:00:49Laci Mosley?

  The scheme generated over twenty million dollars in lawsuit settlements from convincing desperate indivi- individuals who faked to trip and fall, like they faked trip and fall accidents. Two lawyers and two doctors were charged in the Manhattan Federal Court for part of the scam that involved convincing people to undergo needless surgeries in order to boost the value of lawsuits. Wow. Seeking compensation for fake accidents. Ooh.

• 1:01:13Speaker 05

  Yikes.

• 1:01:13Laci Mosley?

  Yikes.

• 1:01:15Speaker 05

  Unnecessary.

• 1:01:16Laci Mosley?

  One of the lawyers, Mark Elephant. He was forty nine and the doctor, Andrew Dowd, forty five, and Sadie Ribero, fifty one, have been arrested and are awaiting court appearances. Another lawyer, George Constantine, fifty eight, is expected to surrender soon. So he's just chilling. They're like, he say he gonna come in on the, on the fifth.

• 1:01:37Laci Mosley?

  He just gets to decide. He got some surgeries on the books, so you know, COVID really had the hospital back, but we just, he gonna, he, he gonna come.

• 1:01:45Speaker 05

  He'll be there eventually.

• 1:01:47Laci Mosley?

  I want this privilege. Like, I thought when it was time for you to go to jail, the girls just came and got you. I'm like, ah, get to jail. Listen, I'm running a little bit late for jail.

• 1:01:57Speaker 05

  Performing another unnecessary surgery today.

• 1:01:59Laci Mosley?

  I'm gonna probably be there in like twenty or thirty days.

• 1:02:03Speaker 05

  I need some runway.

• 1:02:05Laci Mosley?

  It's a lot of traffic out here, so I'm I'm just, you know, running late for jail. Constantine reportedly collected more than five million dollars in legal fees while Dowd, an orthopedic surgeon, earned nine thousand five hundred dollars per surgery and performed hundreds of knee and shoulder surgeries on fall victim patients. Now, if you're getting a necessary surgery, are they are they at least giving you some bionic shit like some they're like, we're gonna add a couple plates in your knees just to get it popping or some extra cushion like, what are you doing in this surgery? Are you

• 1:02:36Speaker 05

  scary part, what could be going on there? We're talking bones.

• 1:02:40Laci Mosley?

  Right. Is it like you just put them under anesthesia and then you give them a little star scar and put some stitches on like what? And also, I'm still concerned with these unhoused people like, are they a part of this? Are they getting coin from it because? So participants in this game recruited more than four hundred people to either claim they had fallen where no accident occurred or to deliberately fall at New York City locations where they could claim there were cracks in the concrete sidewalks, potholes, or unsecured cellar doors, which those things do exist in New York.

• 1:03:11Speaker 05

  They do. That's right.

• 1:03:12Laci Mosley?

  So lawyers then filed suits claiming the owners were at fault for negligence. So now they're going after business owners. The individuals recruited to act as victims were almost entire like entirely unhoused or extremely poor people and would often ask for food when they appeared for meetings with their lawyer. Oh, no.

• 1:03:32Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 1:03:32Laci Mosley?

  Charges against the lawyers and doctors involved um include multiple counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, mail fraud. Each count carries a maximum sentence of twenty years in prison. Y'all belong under the jail and I don't even believe in the carceral system. You

• 1:03:46Laci Mosley?

  I could have maybe

• 1:03:49Laci Mosley?

  I could have maybe empathized if the unhoused or the poor people were getting a major cut of this money.

• 1:03:56Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:03:57Laci Mosley?

  But instead, y'all going out here not even really offering a subway sandwich or or a sweetie meal from McDonald's.

• 1:04:07Laci Mosley?

  And these people are tripping and falling and doing your dirty work and you're not even breaking them off some coin? Like if y'all are making millions of dollars, a few thousand, hundred thousand dollars could be life changing for these people. And y'all not gonna give them a cut?

• 1:04:23Speaker 05

  And these scammers are already making money as doctors and lawyers.

• 1:04:27Laci Mosley?

  Right, y'all already are in lucrative careers. And like, that's what bothers me about this. Y'all already really privileged, like, yeah, it costs a lot of money to go through medical school, residency, malpractice insurance, all that shit. Lawyer, you know, go to law school, etc. Yeah. But you're still making way more money than these people. You're exploiting them and you're not even paying them?

• 1:04:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's, that's insane. That's actually nuts.

• 1:04:51Laci Mosley?

  I don't have anything here about the unhoused people or the poor people being charged. Uh, so you know, there might be a follow up, maybe I'll drop it uh, on the Instagram, but I hope that they're not being charged, especially because they didn't get anything out of this. They were pawns in y'all's greedy ass fucked up scheme. Damn.

• 1:05:09Speaker 05

  It's messed up.

• 1:05:10Laci Mosley?

  That's really fucked up. And y'all doing unauthorized surgeries, unnecessary surgeries?

• 1:05:16Speaker 05

  So messed up. I mean, the idea of like getting together to plan this out and put the scam together and then go making people go under the knife, like what? And you know it's fake. What, what, like what a waste. And again, I'm just like, why waste your time doing this? Like how much? How much money could you be make? How much more money could you be making with this scam than what you're already making as doctors and lawyers?

• 1:05:38Laci Mosley?

  And you're preying on people's desperation. These people don't have any money. And like, obviously none of them thought of blackmail.

• 1:05:46Speaker 05

  Obviously.

• 1:05:47Laci Mosley?

  Cause I mean, it's a risky sport. But I'm just, I'm flummoxed. That's that. Uh, I'm not for this scam. The scam sucks. You guys suck. Um, but guys, that is our episode. We always ask Elliot, what do you want to be found?

• 1:06:05Speaker 05

  Where do I want to be found like on the internet or like in the world?

• 1:06:08Laci Mosley?

  On the internet if you want to be found in the world, but like, you know, the internet.

• 1:06:14Speaker 05

  You can follow me at Eliot Glazer on all platforms. And watch Like Carly season two when it comes out.

• 1:06:20Laci Mosley?

  Yes, because he's the room boo and also your podcast.

• 1:06:25Speaker 05

  It's called You're Making It Worse. That's right.

• 1:06:26Laci Mosley?

  Yes, you're making it worse. Guys, get into it. It's a really great podcast. I had a lot of fun doing it. Guys, as always, search on your friends and family at scamgotuspod at gmail dot com. Just make sure your scam is retired. We don't want to what? Yes, fuck up your bag. If you want to follow us on all platforms, scamgotuspod. If you want to see the photos and things that we're talking about, maybe I'll even post the picture of me with the Mona Lisa. Um, it's sad. If you want to follow me, D I V A L A C I D Velaci on all platforms. Guys, Pod Swag, the merch is cute. Get into it. Go on there slash scamgoddess. And as always, guys, if you like the podcast, give us five stars. It's free. It's free to do and it's great for me. And tell a friend. Congregation. Stay Schemin.

• 1:07:08Laci Mosley?

  This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Cargbo, engineered by Marina Faiz, and researched by Kaelyn Brandt. Stay Schemin.

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