SC EP:1291 The Skookum Thermal

GrayBear who lives in Trout Lake, Washington writes "I've attached a thermal video that I believe shows a female Sasquatch. If you watch the beginning of the video on a large screen, you may notice a smaller thermal signature appear on the left side of the tree. You can see what appears to be glowing eyes before the figure backs behind the tree. A moment later, the larger thermal signature emerges from the right side. A very large Sasquatch then bends down, and it appears that she may be picking something up. I refer to the larger figure as a female because of the apparent juvenile nearby. Pay close attention to the size and proportions of the figure especially the large arms, hands, thighs, and torso. I was also able to enlarge a still frame from the video, and I believe I may have captured what looks like a face. I've attached that still image as well. This occurred on Friday, May 1st. We returned to the area Saturday morning to review the site and found what appeared to be 15.6-inch footprints around the same tree where the Sasquatch was filmed. We went back again that night and experienced some additional high strangeness, including an X-shaped glyph that still has me completely baffled. Needless to say, it was quite a field-research weekend. Take a close look at the still image and let me know if you see what I'm seeing. Follow the arm upward toward the shoulder and neck area. From there, you may be able to make out what appears to be a face. To me, it looks like the nose is glowing, followed by what appear to be the eyes and an ear. I'd really like to hear what you think. We're getting ready to head back out into the Gifford for another couple of days of field research, this time with thermal drones and audio equipment. We've had some unusual audio activity in the area previously, so we're going back to see what happens during our night walks. Another field-research adventure is about to begin."

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that shocked me.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet of what I saw bears.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting?

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Jesus Christ, you better turn, see ya.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Hello?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Get somebody out here.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  What's going on now, sir?

• 1:23Speaker 03

  That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Do you see him now, sir?

• 1:27Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh.

• 1:33Speaker 04

  Hey Sasquatchers, this is Ian from the sunny southern US and you are listening to the best show in the world, Sasquatch Chronicles.

• 2:08Wes Germer?

  In Chinook jargon, "skookum" means "strong", "powerful", "something that does not yield". Older still, in the languages beyond the jargon, it carried another meaning: "a spirit of the timber", "a presence in the mountains that was not quite human and not quite safe". Across Washington and the rest of the Northwest, the word is stamped on the map: "Skookum Meadows", "Skookum chuck lakes", "freaks and ridges", "that sit in a country where the canopy never fully lets go of the dark". When you hear the word "skookum",

• 2:51Wes Germer?

  the original meaning didn't necessarily mean "wild men", it seemed to be a catch-all. Evil spirits were called "skookums", wild men were called "skookums". In 1847, the painter Paul Kane stood in the site of Mount St. Helens. He heard the Chinook talk about "skookums", they were referring to wild men, wild men of a different kind who lived on the mountain. A generation later, in 1924, old prospectors in Ape Canyon, not far from where Paul Kane was, said that they were attacked by ape-like figures. In modern times, many reports have come out of Skookum Meadows.

• 3:37Wes Germer?

  Back about 26 years ago, the BFRO were out there doing an expedition and they left fruit in a muddy wallow and came back at dawn to a body-sized impression in the mud: a hip, forearm, heel, the press of something large that had reached in and then was gone. The group poured hundreds of pounds of plaster and they were able to pull from it the "skookum cast". Tonight, we'll be chatting with Gray Bear. He's a member of the tribe there in Northern California. He lives here in Washington. He went out on an expedition

• 4:17Wes Germer?

  and sent me this thermal video and I'll post the video underneath this episode for you guys to check out and tell me what you think. But I asked him to come on and share how they captured that thermal and what happened that night. And this incident with the thermal happened this year, just a few months ago. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected] and if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome my Gray Bear to the show.

• 5:01Wes Germer?

  Thanks for coming on, I really appreciate you being here.

• 5:04Speaker 06

  Hey, thank you for having me.

• 5:06Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and you had sent me this thermal and I was really impressed with it. And I was curious how you guys got the thermal and what happened that night. Would you take me back a few months ago and walk me into what happened and how you guys got this video?

• 5:23Speaker 06

  Um, with a group called Skamania Chronicles, actually. And I just recently joined this field research team and got really lucky to be able to go out and kind of do some field research, get an idea of what it's like. I've always been a believer in Bigfoot, even though I haven't seen him. So basically, like I said, the opportunity came and I did, prior to the May 1st, I did a field expedition with the group and kind of really got to learn the ropes. And definitely having a thermal out in the middle of a dark forest is pretty cool, man.

• 6:04Speaker 06

  I mean, some of the things you see is just like, wow, you know? Because it's so dark out and that, you see a mouse crawling around, you know, the forest floor and it's like, wow, you can see everything, but you know, when you see a Bigfoot, everything changes, so. Like I said, I got to learn the ropes and on the May 1st, it was a group called the Squatch Docs and Skamania Chronicles that got together. And we were in an area, I don't know if you heard about this story, it was the area where two Bigfoot researchers went on Christmas Eve,

• 6:47Speaker 06

  went out to go look for Bigfoot but never returned. And they actually found them the next day, unfortunately deceased. And nobody really knew what had happened, you know? But the cause of death, they say, was, you know, the elements. It was during the winter and that and they just weren't prepared, but it's an area that's really been known for Sasquatch. And you know, Skamania County has some of the largest Sasquatch sightings in the world, so. I thought, wow, this is going to be a great opportunity. So anyway, what we did that day is we went to this one campground, Oklahoma campground,

• 7:31Speaker 06

  and got to walk around with this one group called the Squatch Docs, who are doctors and orthopedics, so. They were really good at explaining tree breaks and that, so it was fascinating. It was, you know, something really cool to learn, you know, if I'm going to be in this field. So we went back to camp, kind of, everybody just kind of settled in and, you know, ate dinner and just kind of waited till nightfall. And soon as that nightfall came, we all got in the vehicles and kind of did a caravan. We weren't too far from the area where those two Bigfoot hunters went missing. And it took about,

• 8:17Speaker 06

  I'd say about 15 minutes from our camp to get to this area. So there's a ridge that divides the camp to where we were going to go.

• 8:27Speaker 06

  Soon as we got off the main road and started going down this forest road, it was, the forest canopy was just pitch black. I mean, if it wasn't for the headlights, you couldn't see anything on the sides, the forest was so dark with the headlights going forward. But anyway, we got to this area about, I'd say it was a quarter mile in off the main road. And it kind of lies, the forest road continues, we parked into where it kind of wide off to the left. And that's where, I guess, where the two missing hikers had parked their vehicles as well. So we all got out.

• 9:06Speaker 06

  One of the members had audio set out from earlier in the day, so he walked over to retrieve that and we all kind of stood around and one of the guys, Virgil, he's, he's the one that is, you know, has introduced me to the group and that, so. I got to thank Virgil for everything that he's done for me to get me out there to be a field researcher. Anyway, he was explaining to the team that, you know, you got to keep your eyes open, you got to be careful, you got to be safe. I want to make sure everybody stays together, don't wander off. Kind of like, stay on the path.

• 9:46Speaker 06

  So everybody got their cameras out, Virgil had his thermal and his son Evan had a thermal.

• 9:54Speaker 06

  I had just a camcorder with a night vision on it. And so I was filming the team as we're walking down this trails and going through the brush and. Kept getting thicker and thicker and we came to this one berm. Uh, they put that there to keep vehicles from driving any farther. Soon as we got over that, I could hear the creek. And, uh, I guess that's where they found the bodies of the two hikers previous that went Bigfoot. I mean, never came back. So, once we got to the creek, we all kinda stood around and kinda listened and I was just filming with the night vision, the canopy, the trees.

• 10:36Speaker 06

  And I'll see if I can see any eye shine, but, uh, there was no eye shine. It was really eerily quiet, except you could hear the creek. And that, so we decided to cross the creek. Uh, we all, one by one, crossed the creek and up on the other embankment, we kinda organized ourselves before we headed on. And once everybody was all accounted for, there was nine of us actually in the group, which was a large group. So we weren't coming in quiet. We were pretty, we were making quite a bit of noise and that. But, uh, when we'd stop, uh, you know, we could, like I said, just hear the creek and nothing really outstanding.

• 11:18Speaker 06

  You know, tree, no limbs, no tree, branch breaks or anything. Uh, then we started going forward and it just started getting, I don't know. It's a feeling you get, you know, something's not that, you know, something's staring at me. It's something, something spooky. I mean, and something's really creepy going forward. It just was so quiet and, you know, we're starting to go through this brush. It's getting thicker and all of a sudden, you know, we were just getting further in. And one of the members goes, you know what, you know, maybe we don't need to go any further. You know, we've gone in quite, you know, quite a bit.

• 11:58Speaker 06

  And so the group said, you know, all decided, yeah, yeah, let's go ahead and turn around. So we all were kinda like, you know, kinda happy to say the least, you know, it was like, God, this is creepy. I'm getting this weird creepy feel. And so we all started heading back and Virgil's son Evan said, hold on, I think, I think I see something. And, uh,

• 12:26Speaker 06

  we kinda waited and Virgil went over with his, uh, thermal and stood there with Evan and kinda, they were looking around. And so I was videotaping him with my night vision camcorder as they were doing that. And, you know, they did it for about three minutes and did you see anything? I'm not sure, I'm not sure, Virgil said, well, okay. Well, let's keep going back. And so we started heading back and we got back to the creek. And I think that's when people were saying, you know, hey, do you hear that? I'm hearing stuff and I'm not sure, you know, was it a call or, you know, just what they were hearing.

• 13:06Speaker 06

  I'm kinda hard of hearing, so I could hear the creek, but I couldn't hear, you know, anything else. Uh, we all crossed the creek and we were heading back over the berm. And that's when Virgil's son again said, get my dad, get my dad. And so I turned on the camcorder and kinda filmed, uh, Virgil walking back over to Evan. And they were both standing up on the berm. And, uh, so as I'm filming them and Evan and Virgil are looking, you know, Virgil's standing next to Evan, who's kneeling down on his knee, looking back to where, where we came from. And, uh,

• 13:49Speaker 06

  it was probably about 30 seconds in, uh, Evan or Virgil came up and got behind Evan and kinda leaned on Evan's helmet that he had. So he could hold his thermal camera a lot, you know, steadier. And it was like 30 seconds after that, Evan just turned his arm back and patted his dad and point, you know, was pointing like there, right there. And, uh, Virgil was filming it and it was just kinda like nonchalant, like, hmm, I think we just got a Bigfoot. And I'm like, you know, my first time ever being that close to anything. Uh, you know, close to being near Bigfoot like that in the pitch black, he can't see. And he was like, but you're kidding me.

• 14:34Speaker 06

  This is so cool. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. And that, so he just said, yeah, I think we got a Bigfoot. And, uh, we ended up going, you know, all heading back, got back into the vehicles and ended up getting back to camp and kinda sat, sat down around the fire and talked about what the experience was. And to me, I, you know, I never even thought we just caught Bigfoot on thermal. But, you know, we, we can't check it until later, you know, when he got home, he, you know, put it on his computer and pulled it up and there it was. Uh, you know, you just, it was a weird feeling.

• 15:13Speaker 06

  And like I said, I've always believed I haven't seen, and this just kinda made it, wow, you know, they do exist. There's just too much evidence to say they don't, but to be out there and to be a part of it, it was really exciting. So that night they set up audio around the camp and the next morning, uh, one of the people would put out the audio, listen to it. And you could hear this like three steps going boom, boom, boom. And it sounded, I mean, this was really weird, like it said Virgil, but it was like Virgil, you know? One, two, three, pound, pound, pound, Virgil, you know? So we're all laughing, you know, wow, this is funny.

• 15:58Speaker 06

  And I thought, wait a minute, this wasn't funny because the audio was right down below where I was sleeping. I'm where they captured it and I was like, this is, you know, kinda spooky. But anyway, uh, the next day we went back and, uh, we wanted to kinda observe the area, see if we could find any tracks. And so we parked where we originally parked, walked a hundred feet to the berm, crossed over the berm, went down 20 feet to the creek, crossed the creek and about 10 feet up the embankment, one of the Squatch Docks, uh, members, uh, said, look, we got a print. And the guy's really good at prints.

• 16:44Speaker 06

  And he just says, he outlined it, he go, you know, I don't wanna make you see it. I want you to see it. And I looked down, I go, oh my gosh, you could really see like a toe impression, a heel. So they measured it and it was 15.6 inches. And then we walked a little further up about four and a half, five feet, and there was another print. And we're like, they measured it and it was 15.6. And it was facing back to the creek. So it was like something was following us out, uh, that night, last night, the night before.

• 17:25Speaker 06

  And so we just kept going up and then we noticed that the track went off to the left and down below, there's this tree. And when you look at the thermal, you see it's standing behind a tree. So we got, you don't see the tree, you could just see it's blocked off, uh, red heat. So looking, you know, looking down at the thermal, there's a dark, dark patches on the tree, uh, tree branches out. So we kinda followed the footprints, like I said, they were four and a half, five feet apart. And they kinda went down to, you could kinda see a game trail. It's really cool when you go back to an area after a night walk and that, uh, during the day.

• 18:09Speaker 06

  I mean, it's just, the forest is totally different. It looks totally different. And we followed the tracks down to the tree where we thought it was. And looked around and you could see around the tree, there was a 15 and a half print. And there was another 15 and a half print, like something was standing there, you know, just kinda watching us. And then, once we got by, it came out and then kinda followed us down and out, basically. Uh, so that was really exciting to kinda confirm, you know, that something was possibly there.

• 18:46Speaker 06

  And, uh, so we walked back, all hopped into the vehicle and vehicles, went back to camp, talked about it. And, you know, everybody was resting and then we had our dinner and then we prepared to go back again, uh, that night. And so did our, did our convoy, went down the forest road, parked where we parked earlier in the day. And soon as I got out, I turned on my camcorder, uh, with the night vision, just to kinda get a scope around, see if I could see any eye shine. And I put it down on the, uh, forest road that we walked down to the berm, the hundred feet, that road there.

• 19:29Speaker 06

  And there was this weird, I could've swore it was not there before. There was this X made out of two branches, right there where we parked earlier. And, uh, so I called one of the members and I said, hey, do you remember seeing this? And I put it on, I was recording it at the time too. I go, do you remember seeing this X before? And, uh, a member goes, no, I don't. And then everybody else started walking up, what's going on, what? And they, they saw the X and they're going, that wasn't there before. We would've noticed it and we would've. And, uh, cause it was, it stood out.

• 20:07Speaker 06

  And so we kinda, you know, started reading into it like, hey, maybe this is, maybe we're not supposed to go back here, you know? With the, in the back of our minds and knowing two people, uh, lost their lives back here. And it just started getting to a point to where we were afraid to actually cross the creek. We felt like this X glyph thing was telling us, don't go down here. You're not allowed down here, which is strange, you know, how can you get that out of an X? But it's just the way everybody was feeling. And, uh, so anyway, we decided to go and, uh, as soon as we got to the berm, we kinda stood around, uh, before we got down to the creek.

• 20:53Speaker 06

  And I was the one, I just said, you know, I, I don't wanna cross the creek. I just feel uncomfortable about it. And there was, uh, four members that said, no, we're gonna go ahead and cross. You guys stay here, stay in a group. Uh, so there was a couple of people that stayed with me back and on the, this side of the creek. And so I videotaped the other members that crossed the creek and they were up there doing thermal work and that and about a half hour passed and they started heading back, crossing the creek and they met us at the berm and none of us had left the berm to go back to the vehicles.

• 21:34Speaker 06

  And so we were all together. We made sure everybody was accounted for, which is really important when you're out doing these night walks. You just don't let anybody stray off, uh, off on their own. It's good to keep together and definitely nobody goes out in the woods by themselves. I mean, it's so important to have somebody with you. But anyway, we walked back and as we're coming back to the vehicles and where the X glyph was, I looked and I went, oh my God. Well, where the X was, there is these two twigs laid together right underneath the X, side by side.

• 22:14Speaker 06

  When we first saw this glyph, well, when we came back, those two little sticks were placed underneath the X into an X. And so somebody spoke up and says, do you know what? Those two twigs are, you know, smaller branches that were together. I think it was saying, this is the creek, don't cross the creek. And all of a sudden it just made sense. And then those two twigs were then picked up and placed in an X underneath the other X. Nobody was around. We were all together in a group. One of the members vehicles has a dash cam that was filming right over it. So we were like, okay,

• 22:57Speaker 06

  we'll, we'll get this on camera. We'll figure out what it was. Well, he checked his dash cam, you know, later on and nothing, didn't see anything. So to this day, we still don't know what moved those two branches to make another X underneath the main X. And so just that weird feeling you get when you go to this place. It's kinda, it's crazy. So what do we do? We decided to go back. So it was a couple of weeks later, there was a Bigfoot research group, a couple of miles down the road. And so we thought we'd take them up to this one area for a night walk,

• 23:40Speaker 06

  and give them a feel for what we do in, you know, the Skamania area and the Gifford Pigeon. So we took them and we kinda did the same thing. We got to the berm, walked down a hundred feet, got to the berm. I spoke up and said, hey, I'm staying here. I'm not crossing the creek. I just don't feel comfortable. So half of the group said, hey, we'll cross, but you know, another half decided to stay on this side of the creek. They only crossed the creek and they went so far. And so we just kinda all sat around in the quiet, had red headlamps going. And that, so it was kinda cool. I'm videotaping all this and you just see these little red dots, you know, in a dark forest.

• 24:23Speaker 06

  And then I videotaped our group that was just sitting down on the forest floor, you know, just kinda chilling and doing their thermal work. And so I asked our group that was on this side of the creek, if they wanted to go back to the vehicles, because nothing was really happening there by the creek. And they said, yeah, yeah, let's go back. So we were heading back. And so I got on the radio and I call, called the group leader that was across the creek and said, hey, we're, uh, we're heading back to the vehicles. And it was like, what? Why are you doing that? And I go, well, there's nothing really happening, you know, where we're at. So we all just thought

• 25:05Speaker 06

  we'd go back to the vehicles. And I go, where are you? Where are you guys? We don't see you. And they go, oh, we're about three quarters of a mile in. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. You guys went that far in. Uh, then I got asked, he goes, well, are, is one of you guys coming with a flashlight? And I go, no. I looked at the group and they looked at me and I said, no, we're all here. Oh, we're all standing by the vehicles. And I go, well, someone's coming with the flashlight. We can see it right now. And we're all like, no, we're, we're here. We don't, you know, we're not shining a flashlight over in that area. And it was just right after that, poof, we saw this light

• 25:48Speaker 06

  at the berm where we were. And it looked like it just shot up from the ground up into the forest canopy. It lit it up really quick and then went back down. And I thought, oh, I go, hey, are you guys coming back already? And they're going, no, why? I go, because we just saw a light. And they're going, no, we're three quarters of a mile up. And I go, no, it was just right over by the berm. And then it happened again. The light went up, went back down. And the group I was with was, did you see that? Did you see that? And I was going, yes, I saw that. And so I radioed, I said, you sure you got, none of you are coming back? They're going, no, we're, we're, we're coming back

• 26:27Speaker 06

  now, but that, that's not us. And so the group finally came back and we all kinda stood around and talked about it and could have swore the X glyph that was still there when we took this group, you know, it changed a little bit, but somebody went and walked on it and it moved it. So we just kinda went, oh, okay, we're not going to have that discussion. But all in all, being out in the field for a couple of times, wanting to be a Bigfoot field researcher, I think I realized that there's something out there. There's some things out there and it's pretty cool. And that's, that's basically it.

• 27:07Wes Germer?

  Yeah, that really is an amazing account. It's kinda cool that you went out there and, you know, you kinda believed in Bigfoot, but you've never seen one. I could see why it was so memorable to you. I was super impressed by the thermal. I think it's because I've used thermals and I understand what you get using a thermal. I think some people might look at it and may not be that impressed. But if you've ever used a thermal, I mean, when I looked at it, I was like, oh, wow, you guys did capture something. And I'll post the thermal underneath this episode. When you saw that video, what was kinda going through your mind and how far away from you was all of this taking place?

• 27:52Speaker 06

  It was about thirty, thirty feet, thirty to forty feet away, uh, where they were filming. The creek was like 20 feet, the berm, and they were filming on the berm. And then it was another 10, 15 feet in, off to the left and that. So it wasn't that far away, which after seeing the thermal, I just went, oh my God. You look at the size of this thing and the heat it's putting out. But another thing too, looking at that thermal is right at the beginning, and I think I pointed it out to you, there's these three dots that come out on the other side of the tree, like a face,

• 28:33Speaker 06

  but smaller. And then it drops to the ground and then the big, I mean, this is a big, Bigfoot, comes out on the, yeah, the right side of the tree. And that's where you see the full body. But like I said, the tree branches are blocking some of it out, the thermal. But you look at the size of the hands and the chest and the thighs. It just, you know, I was thinking, maybe this is a female, uh, Bigfoot with a juvenile. And that, so it's just, it is a, it was really surprising to

• 29:17Speaker 06

  see the thermal when it was released. I just kept watching it over and over, kept blowing it up to a point to where I was able to, and to me, it's what do they call it? Paridolia, Paridolia, I could see the face. And so I pointed it out to everybody. I go, look, I got it blown up enough and you could see the face. And finally I have to point it out, but after pointing it out, they're going, oh my God, that is the face, you know, and the nose is glowing. So it looks funny and that's what throws people off. But you see the eye, dark eye, the chin and that, and the nose

• 29:56Speaker 06

  area. But all in all, you know, like you said, to me, it's a really good thermal. It's just proof that there's stuff out in the woods we don't know about. And it just proved it.

• 30:10Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I'm gonna see if I can actually clean up the video. I mean, in the original video, I did see the profile of what you guys captured. It looks like it's way bigger than a man. I'm not sure about the three dots. I'll have to go back and look. But again, for the audience, I'll post this underneath the episode and you guys can check it out. Can I ask you, what was the, what was the reason for going to this location?

• 30:39Speaker 06

  Well, Virgil, this guy has lived in the area for forty some odd years. He's hunted the area for forty some odd years, so he knows. He pretty, he's had a couple of Class A sightings himself, so he's pretty much studied the migration.

• 30:57Speaker 06

  You know, and thinks he knows their fall on the elk. And he just suggested, you know, we're gonna go to this place. We're gonna, we're gonna get something, you know, this is where they're gonna be right now. And for almost a month of going back and forth from that area, we've had, you know, some kind of weird, strange encounter. And then it just kind of died off and he's just kind of, you know, saying it's the migration that are moving up north, moving up in the, you know, up the ridge. And so you're familiar with, you know, the area since you live around here. It's, you know, like Goose Lake and Forlorn Lakes and that. That's where they're heading up and they'll be up in that area.

• 31:41Speaker 06

  And so they've had a couple of expeditions, they've gone up in that area. And they've got back with some strange audio, but no thermal like we got May 1st.

• 31:55Wes Germer?

  Yeah, the area where you guys were at, I mean, has a long, long history of Sasquatch sightings and a lot of really weird activity. I know you're not far from where, um, I think it was back in 2000 during a BFRO expedition. Researchers had left a bunch of fruit as bait in kind of this muddy wallow the night before. And I want to say it was found by Richard Knoll, Derek Randalls. And there was a wildlife, can't remember if he was a biologist or what, but it's a body imprint. I mean, it looks like a body imprint to me. I'm no expert. But I know the guys that were out there, they poured the cast.

• 32:38Wes Germer?

  And I don't know where the original cast is now, but I know back in the day, it showed like a forearm, a hip, a buttocks, a thigh, a heel. And there was even hair impressions along with dermal ridges. I mean, it was a really cool find, but I mean, that's one of many things that have happened in that area. Tell me your impression of what the creatures were doing that night, because they got really, really close.

• 33:09Speaker 06

  Well, my personal feeling after having time to think about it is, in looking at that thermal and just hearing stories of that area, I just think that's like a breeding ground, a birth ground, or you know, where the females and their juveniles are. And the males are up on the ridge watching over, you know, so there was a, there was some whoops and yells that, like I said, I'm kind of hard of hearing, uh, but you know, they were saying, yeah, you know, we could hear,

• 33:45Speaker 06

  calls and stuff. And I was like, wow. So I just think that area is such a really cool area. Uh, looking forward to next spring. And we're already talking about putting together a group, uh, to go up there and spend a couple of days and, you know, do some more investigating and that. And I just have a gut feeling it's gonna produce because like I said, you know, that thermal is, is a good, it's a good thermal. I mean, I hope people could see it. Uh, they're able to view it and kind of really see what, you know, was there. You can't see it with the, you know, the naked eye of the forest. It's just so dark.

• 34:27Speaker 06

  So it's kind of spooky knowing 20 feet in, there's something standing there staring at you. So something big, something huge and that. So we did, uh, have a strange occurrence though, in the same area. And that was in June. We took a group, took a group in there and we got to the berm again. And Virgil says, hey, I hear one coming, I see one coming down the creek. And you could hear splashing and I'm like, okay, is it a cougar? You know, what's going on here? And he goes, no, he goes, there's one coming down the creek. Oh, wait a minute. I think it's gone.

• 35:09Speaker 06

  Well, one of the members of the group took off running towards it. And we said, no, don't go. And exactly 10 feet as he ran past us, got about 10 feet, he stopped in his tracks, turned around and came running back towards us and passed us and says, I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. So we were, you know, trying to figure out what happened? What did, what did you see? What, what, what went wrong? And he explained later, he goes, yeah, when I ran past you guys, he says, about 10 feet in, I had this like low guttural growl. He said, it stopped me in my tracks.

• 35:52Speaker 06

  He says, it just made me sick to my stomach. He says, I had to turn around and get out of there. So that kind of tells me that this area is just, you know, it's, I don't know if it's a breeding ground or it's where they, you know, they live, you know, during the springtime. And that's one of their migration stops, so.

• 36:13Wes Germer?

  I was kind of curious why you guys didn't go back sooner. Is May kind of the timeframe when that group goes up there?

• 36:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's when Virgil thinks it's gonna be the best time. And this guy knows his stuff. He took us up to Goldendale, uh, to the Simcoe's, the mountains. And, uh, that's where I got my first wood knock and that. So I feel very fortunate to be able to be part of a group with somebody that has knowledge of the Bigfoot migration and the understanding of it. So yeah, I do believe next spring it's gonna be a pretty cool. You know, it'd be kind of nice to do kind of a live, live show, but I think that'll take away the, the uniqueness of it. And I think what we'll do is we'll get, we'll get some really cool data.

• 37:05Speaker 06

  And you know, the main thing is to get as much data as possible to bring it to, you know, mainstream science and get this out there, you know, Skamania already has a law not to kill a Bigfoot. So it'd be kind of cool to help preserve the forest in a way too, because they're there. You can't tell me otherwise now.

• 37:27Wes Germer?

  Yeah, doing it live from the field, looks good on paper, but it never works out. It never works out. Uh, when I very first started, I remember a lot of these Bigfoot researchers would be like, oh, you know, there's one in particular, I won't tell you his name, but he was like, oh, I want to do it live from the field. So your audience understands what it's like and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, I'll entertain this. And we, we go to do the interview and it's like a train passes by, a plane flies over. He's like next to a highway and I just gave, I just gave up on the interview. Uh, there's too much, too much distraction going on. You know, you had talked about the, the lights that you guys saw and you thought it was someone from your group.

• 38:13Wes Germer?

  Tell me more about that. Tell me about seeing these lights.

• 38:18Speaker 06

  Yeah. So the group, we took half of the group, my half of the group. We went back to the vehicles and I called Virgil and said, hey, Virge, we're, we're heading back to the, the cars and that. We're gonna hang there. Nothing's really going. He goes, why? Why? You know, we said, well, there's really nothing happening here. And, you know, we don't want to sit by the creek. We can't really hear anything else because of the running water and that. So he goes, okay, he goes, well, well, who's coming with the flashlight? And we're going, what? And he goes, well, one of the guys says he sees someone coming with the flashlight. And we're going, we're not, we're back at the vehicles and. So we hung up the, you know, we stopped the radios and then we were talking and all of a sudden

• 39:02Speaker 06

  our group, we saw this flash. And so I called Virgil, I say, are you guys coming back? And he goes, no. Why? And I go, we're seeing, we're seeing light as well. And where the berm was, on the other side of the berm, it was like a light was down on the floor and it lit up the canopy above, the forest canopy, and then went back down. And the group I was with goes, did you see that? So like I said, I called Virgil, I go, are you guys coming back? And he goes, no, no, we're still up here. And right when I was on the radio with him again, that light happened again. It was right over the berm, same like it came from the ground, shot up and shot back down really quick.

• 39:46Speaker 06

  And it's a weird, it was a weird color. It wasn't, you know, like those LED bright, bright white lights, you know? It was just super Tony up and then back down, dropped down, but it was bright. And, you know, we just, when they said, no, we're not coming back. We just couldn't figure out who's in between us, who's there with flashlight, you know, in between us, because there was nobody there. But anyway, the group came back and like I said, we talked about it a little bit and that was it. You know, just another part of the strangeness that goes on in that area.

• 40:24Wes Germer?

  So was the light above the canopy kind of projecting down?

• 40:29Speaker 06

  No, no, it was like it came from the ground out. Like there was a flashlight sitting on the ground and then turned on and it lit up the forest canopy up and, you know, up above and then turned off. And it did that twice.

• 40:45Wes Germer?

  Yeah, that is a strange one with regard to the lights. I'm not sure what to think about that one. But you know, these lights are seen all the time, especially when these creatures are around. And you know, for the longest time, Bigfoot researchers would never address the lights. I would talk to them at conferences and privately, they've all seen it. But publicly, they don't talk about it, which I don't get. Even if it's not Bigfoot related, but it's something that happened. I felt like you should still address it. And it's weird now, everyone talks about the lights. But back about 11 years ago, when I started talking about it, I was told I was ruining the subject.

• 41:29Wes Germer?

  And, you know, some of my harshest critics were researchers who'd actually seen the lights. So I don't, anyway, I don't get it. But they are seen and it sounds like you guys saw them. Was there any discussion in the group afterwards or any sort of insight about what you might have seen?

• 41:50Speaker 06

  No, it was brought up. That discussion was held definitely. It was like, you know, hey, you know, it's when you get into the woo part and, you know, some don't want to talk about it and some do. To me, it, it was just fascinating to have the discussion, but to be there and to actually see it. You know, it was like, it was a different kind of light. It wasn't a flashlight, but if you kind of glance over and you're in the woods and you see this light and you're far away from it, it would look like somebody's coming at you with a flashlight. But we were closer to it and we could tell it was coming out of the ground up all the time.

• 42:29Speaker 06

  So it's interesting, you know, is it, you know, a part of the supernatural aspect of, you know, Bigfoot research? Definitely. Yeah, something to it. But to be there, to witness it and that, I guess I was very fortunate to, like I say, be a part of the field research team in itself to take, you know, part into getting what I believe is really good thermal. And then to see an X glyph and to see it change, you know, there's a more paranormal aspect there. And just a hundred feet away, then there's those lights, you know, that we were witnessing.

• 43:13Speaker 06

  So what those two bring together, I, that I don't know. It's just going to take more research and looking forward to doing that.

• 43:25Wes Germer?

  Yeah. Do you have a theory on the lights as far as what you think there might be?

• 43:30Speaker 06

  Well, it could be like a portal, you know, where something pops in or popped out, you know? Maybe there was a couple that, you know, left. I don't know. I mean, that's just a theory of mine, not everybody else's. But it just, it doesn't make sense to, you know, see this light if the team that's three quarters of a mile away says they're not doing it. And we know nobody's, we're out in the middle of nowhere. We know nobody else is in between us. So yeah, it's just hard to explain.

• 44:06Wes Germer?

  Yeah, they are hard to explain and it does feel paranormal when you run into those lights. I mean, it's not scary. It's just weird. And for the longest time, I really searched for answers on what those lights could be and why are they showing up? And I remember, you know, I would ask Bigfoot researchers and I quit doing that a long time ago. Cause I came to the conclusion, they don't know any more than I do. It's just frustrating, you know, I've seen the lights on two different occasions and I hate giving a donkey answer to people of, yeah, it's odd. I don't know what it is.

• 44:43Speaker 06

  It's interesting that, you know, you've had that experience. I mean, can you tell me, what color were those lights?

• 44:52Wes Germer?

  Well, well, I'll start by saying I'm extremely colorblind. But from my perspective, the, and the first time I saw it, I was with my brother and he's also colorblind. But to me, it looked like a real pretty blue whitish color. It's kind of hard to describe the color of them. I mean, it's not hard to describe the color of them. The first one that we saw, it just kind of hovered above this creek. And it was like blue and, and a tint of white. It reminded me of like a nuclear reactor. I mean, it looked like it was just pure power on the inside.

• 45:34Wes Germer?

  The second one though, that I saw kind of fooled me because it was at the Browns property and it was an orange color, kind of like those crappy flashlights back in the eighties. And it was animated. It was like bouncing around like someone walking with a flashlight. In fact, when we first saw it, at least when I first saw it, I assumed it was one of his neighbors coming over being like, hey, guys, you're being too loud, which we weren't, but I assumed it was someone walking with a flashlight in our direction. It was very animated. It was bouncing, just like you'd see someone walking up a trail with a flashlight.

• 46:12Speaker 06

  I don't, you know, you can look at it this way, you know, you got a creek there. You know, it could have been something pressured in the earth, the water created an electric. I don't know. I mean, there's no answer that I could come up with. Only know, you know, I seen it and the group had seen it. And the group that was three quarters of a mile away saw it, thinking it was a flashlight and somebody headed in their way. So the light phenomenon is there, it exists as well. To answer, you know, what it is, I have no idea. I have no idea. I just know the area we were in was very squatchy. So do those, are they connected? That'd be pretty cool if they are.

• 46:56Speaker 06

  Because then you're really, you know, you're in the right spot. So.

• 47:00Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I've had people try and explain to me the light that I saw, especially the blue one, was some sort of natural phenomenon going on. But that light followed us when we left. It creeps me out even talking about it, but that light followed us. And when we were looking at the lights, or I'll just speak for myself. My brother later said the exact same thing, but it almost felt like it was like watching us. And then to have it follow us as we left. I don't know about natural earth phenomenon that does that. I'm sure some of it could be explained as being natural.

• 47:41Wes Germer?

  You know, the night that you guys got the thermal, I know you were under the impression there was two of them. The main figure you guys captured and then what appears to be a smaller one. That night, how many do you think were actually around?

• 47:57Speaker 06

  Well, that was a good, that's a good question and that was discussed. It was discussed, like there was a couple probably up on the ridge yelling at us, you know, trying to get us to go away, to get out of there. I mean, because maybe the female and the juvenile were down below and they were right there where we were and they didn't take off. They were hiding basically from us, you know, behind the tree. And we just felt that there was other presence up on the ridge and around us that were trying to get us to leave. You know, like I said, I'm hard of hearing, but some people said they heard, you know, calls and yells and whoops and, you know, something that make us nervous and turn around and leave.

• 48:42Speaker 06

  But we did turn around and leave. There was just like I said, that energy. But thank God Evan said, whoa, you just stopped, turned around and kind of did a scan with his thermal and saw it and then called for his dad. So good job on Evan to look back and, you know, keep thermaling. So I do believe there's more than just that. Yes.

• 49:07Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it makes me wonder about that night because you guys definitely captured something. And if it was a female with a younger one, makes you wonder why she would be out in the open and the other ones would be up on the ridge. I don't get the impression from all of the years of interviewing people that they put their young and their females out in the open as kind of like shields. You know, terrorists do that. That doesn't really seem like Sasquatch behavior. Makes me wonder what if it was a female, what she was doing out in the open like that and so close. Maybe she was heading back and ran into you guys. And obviously I'm speculating. You know, I always say people can believe in Bigfoot all they want, but when you experience one, it's very different.

• 49:52Wes Germer?

  And you went from, hey, you know, I believe in that these things are out there to now going out on this expedition and capturing what I think was a great thermal. Did this change your life at all?

• 50:05Speaker 06

  Yes, it did.

• 50:07Speaker 06

  Strange. It just answered a question. So I felt kind of relieved. I don't know how to explain it, but I just felt like, oh, yeah, they do. Well, that's, that's great. I don't have to, you know, think, do they? I wonder if they really do. It's now when I go in the woods, I know they're there. The other thing is, is it's just heightened my interest. Moreover, I'm, you know, finally retired, so I've been out putting out audio up by Peterson Prairie area and that. And finally decided Virgil and I as Media Chronicles, uh, decided to put together a

• 50:50Speaker 06

  town hall in Trout Lake in November. And God, we put out the flyers and put it on, you know, happenings for Trout Lake. And it's just, it's getting an overwhelming response. So I think it's going to be pretty cool. It's gonna, you know, we want to talk to other like-minded individuals, people that had encounters, but didn't want to come forward, you know, that could come forward in a private setting. And, you know, we want to gather as much data as possible and go out with that data and, you know, continue looking. We have, like I say, certain areas that will go in the spring. We'll find areas that'll be this summer. And I got an opportunity too, with, you know, doing all this to go up to the Olympics and

• 51:35Speaker 06

  uh, do some research with a group up there called Olympic Sasquatch and Beyond. So I'm really looking forward to that. It's going to be in October. It's a little cold out there, you know, field research isn't all glamour. You know, I realized I was out of shape on my first expedition. I was like, oh my God. Now, but I think, you know, kind of losing weight and getting in shape. And now I know what to expect. It's, it's exciting.

• 52:05Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I'm excited for you. I sure hope that you guys are able to capture more evidence out there. And you're right, field research, there's nothing glamorous about it. It's camping and sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. But I'm glad to hear it's having a positive impact, you know, losing weight, getting out there. It's, it's good for the soul to get out and get some of that fresh air. And I can appreciate what you guys are doing. Let me ask you, what do you think Sasquatch is? And there's no wrong answer, of course.

• 52:38Speaker 06

  Yeah. Uh, you know, to me, it's a warm-blooded individual that's been here longer than we have basically, or just the same amount of time. And I don't know, I just, this is their land, not ours. And I just, to me, like I said, they're, they're a living, a living thing. What the lights have to do with it, I don't know. That's, you know, we just don't know enough. And that's why we want to get as much data, you know? I, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants. I mean, I just, the people that have been out years before I even stepped into the woods are the ones that paved the way to get this data going.

• 53:21Speaker 06

  And so I always respect that. And going forward is doing whatever I can, you know, to add to that. I just know there, there are beings that do exist. Other than that, I have no idea what they are.

• 53:37Wes Germer?

  You know, I always love hearing people's theories because everyone has a theory, but I also respect when people say, I don't know, not only in Bigfoot, but just in life in general. You'll have to let me know when you guys go back out, if anything happens. I would love to know if around this time, well, no, it was back in May, uh, May of next year, when you guys go back, if anything happens. But I really appreciate you coming on and sharing how you guys captured that thermal. And it was a real pleasure having you on. Thanks for coming on and thanks for sharing the thermal.

• 54:14Speaker 06

  I appreciate the opportunity. It needs to be out there, you know, need to put it out there. Definitely, yeah, I'll keep you updated on, you know, what's going on in this area. There's, there's a lot going on, so, and I know you have a great interest as well. So I appreciate that.

• 54:31Wes Germer?

  Thanks again, Gray Bear. And like I said, I'll post the, uh, the thermal video below. I might try and actually clean it up a little bit, but I'll post the original version and then my cleaned up version, uh, for you to check out. That's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.