SC EP:1245 The Juvenile Playing On My Tree Stand

Tonight we'll be talking with Jake from Minnesota. Back in the early 1980s, he witnessed something he described as a chimpanzee playing on his tree stand. Then, 30 years later, in the same area, he encountered another creature this time displaying behavior unlike anything he had ever heard or seen before.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that shocked me. They don't make people that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw bears.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting? Jesus Christ, you better... Karen, see ya! Hello? Get somebody out of here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  This is Phoenix Bunting from Lakso First Nation and you are listening to Wes Germer of Sasquatch Chronicles.

• 2:09Wes Germer?

  Welcome to the show. Tonight, we'll be speaking with Jake, who comes to us from Minnesota. Back in the early 80s, he witnessed something he described as a chimpanzee playing on his tree stand. Then 30 years later, in the same area, he encountered another creature, and it was displaying a behavior unlike anything I'd ever heard before. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com.

• 2:51Wes Germer?

  You can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Jake to the show. Jake, thanks for coming on.

• 3:02Speaker 05

  No problem.

• 3:04Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and you had this encounter. We're going back to the early 80s. If you would, just kind of start from the very beginning. What were you doing and what happened?

• 3:15Speaker 05

  Well, I started to be on this private property around 82 or 1983, somewhere around there. Well, this area that I hunted was just south of a large piece of state land in Minnesota that's open to public hunting. And the occupants of this area in the 70s, Minnesota DNR, pushed life leases on the owners of their recreational land. So these landowners would sell their land to the state for a chunk of money. And upon their passing, it would become part of the state forest.

• 3:57Speaker 05

  So at the time this all happened, or at the time it started happening, uh, it was private property. And, uh, again, I was a kid, I was none the wiser, but as I got older, it all made sense. And like I said, as a kid, I was none the wiser, I would hear things and observe different sounds. You know, I would, you know, rationalize it as like, I'd hear knocks, three knocks, and they were perfectly timed. Thump, thump, thump, but a lot higher pitched and more tinny, like it was hitting a poplar, a birch tree. And I would rationalize it as it was the grouse thumping or whatever. I didn't

• 4:41Speaker 05

  pay it much attention until I got older and started learning about, you know, all these Bigfoot encounters and, and things people had seen and dealt with. So I'd heard that, I'd hear stones clacking, I even heard a few whoops once in a while, but I'd pass it off as coyotes. So that, uh, that's kind of where my mindset was. I was, like I said, none the wiser in order I did anything about Bigfoot or Sasquatch or whatever you want to call it. And first weekend of, uh, deer hunting season, I have an old, uh, Wes, are you familiar with those, uh, like World War II era radio men and mail pouches? They're

• 5:25Speaker 05

  a backpack with wide leather straps, they're about three foot wide. They're that, uh, all green, uh, canvas backpack, the really wide ones.

• 5:36Wes Germer?

  Oh, yeah. I have a replica of one I bought offline. I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  Yeah. So I would have one of those and, you know, it hasn't been so bad in the last couple of decades, but, you know, Minnesota winters, especially in November, would, you know, get very brutal cold. So I would take this backpack and have it full of extra warm clothes. I would put it out in my deer stand, you know, the day before the opener. So I wouldn't have to, you know, get all sweaty carrying that in and out because, you know, sweat equals cold. So. And for a couple of years before this encounter, I noticed that, again, I would just rationalize it as a coincidence or I forgot something, but there'd be things missing. Cause you know,

• 6:25Speaker 05

  I'd put, have my clothes in there and I'd also have a couple of snacks in there. Well, my bag of, say, caramels would be missing, gone. And like I said, I just blew it up as I forgot to put it in there or, you know, whatnot. And so, yeah, I would put this pack out there the day before. And like I said, for a couple of years, stuff was missing out of there and didn't pay much attention to that. And then the day I had the encounter, I realized what it was. I had three different ways I went into this deer stand depending on the wind. So it came up over a ridge and overlooked a big swamp bog. And yeah, I

• 7:08Speaker 05

  mean, Minnesota's got a lot of that. So, but yeah, so I came up over this ridge and I hear bang, bang, bang. And I thought, what the hell is that? Somebody in my deer stand? And as I got over the ridge and started coming down where I could see my deer stand, it's a little juvenile, looked like, you know, somebody's pet chimpanzee or something, jumping on my deer stand. And then it was, there's a branch I used, I left, you know, you cut, trim foliage away to, on a tree to, you know, make a nice spot for your deer stand, but still have cover. And right above my seat, three feet, there was a branch I

• 7:49Speaker 05

  left that had, you know, leaves and whatnot on it. So it helped, you know, hide me. And this thing was jumping on my deer stand, then it jumped up, grabbed that log of the branch above and actually swung around a few times. And then jumped back on deer stand and was crawling up and down. You know, I have those attachable ladders that, you know, the extension ladders that lock together with pins. And yeah, it was going up and down that, just having a good old time. Well, coming over that, for the wind that day, I came in directly from the east to west. So I came over a ridge and as of coming over the peak of the ridge, the visual line of sight was about 45 meters.

• 8:35Speaker 05

  This guy was a little guy. Like I said, he was, I hated to reference other primates, but that's all I have to use as a reference. This thing looked like, it had the arms of a chimpanzee, but the body of a, like a mountain gorilla, really, you know, fuzzy and thick, but its arms were like minimal to no hair. It was really weird looking. And again, the head was also like a great ape, but the features of it were, you know, like I said, it's really hard to, without a good solid reference, it's hard to put an example on, but it's the best

• 9:18Speaker 05

  way I can describe it where people would understand was it had the body of a great ape and the limbs of a chimpanzee. And it was probably three feet tall approximately. Oh, you hear the, you know, Bigfoot's being described as no neck and just broad shoulders. This thing had definitely had a neck. I mean, it was probably a good, the, the bottom of the, like the chin area, and you know, the base of the head where the neck would start was probably four to five inches above its shoulders. So I'm sure they grow into that. But yeah, it was very interesting. And the hands is

• 9:58Speaker 05

  really what gave it away. I mean, didn't have those rough, thick nails like you'd think, you know, even a primate has. It was weird. They were, those were more human. You could actually see the white sheen of them. I was close enough to see that. So it started, like I said, it was playing around and finally it, it saw me. And it did this. Are you, are you, you've studied primates at all? The great apes? A little bit. Well, you know, have you ever seen a young infant chimpanzee? How they go when they're feeling nervous or, you know, basically calling for mom? Yeah. It did that, but it was a much, much lower pitch.

• 10:43Speaker 05

  You know, and then I gotta tell you, maybe 100 yards away where the swamp opens up to Thick Island, I heard what can only be described as a lion roaring through an elephant's trunk pun, you know, right in my direction. And, you know, the, the funny part is, I had a 300 wind mag over my shoulder, a 44 Magnum in a shoulder holster, and I got the hell out of there as quickly as I could. I mean, I sprinted back to my frickin truck. You know, I could actually feel the percussion in my chest. And like I said, it was a, I don't know sure

• 11:23Speaker 05

  how far away it was, but I know from my deer stand to where, you know, the island is where it has thick tree growth on it is 100 yards. I know that for a fact. And, uh, yeah, it, I could feel the percussion from however far away it was, minimum of 100 yards. That's what I know. And I just, yeah, nature kicked in and I got the, I got out of there as quickly as I could. I mean, I took off like a little girl and afraid of shame to say whatever was roaring. I didn't want any part of it. Especially when you think that this had to be a juvenile. So, you know, you don't want to become, become, I'm sorry, get between mother and its cub, you know, that's sure way that I get ripped apart. So.

• 12:08Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it's interesting that you heard that roar. I've heard that one time before. It was in the same area me and my brother had our encounter was, I don't know, a month later, a couple of months later, we actually heard that. And this thing must have been at least a mile, maybe two miles away. You could almost kind of feel it as ridiculous as that sounds because it was so far away. I don't know exactly what you're, what you're talking about. I remember thinking like, is there a lion out here, like an African lion running loose? What was kind of your thoughts about Bigfoot prior to this encounter?

• 12:47Speaker 05

  I really didn't give it much thought. You know, I'm, I'm a, I'm an engineer. So I, you know, I may see it to believe it type of guy, or you know, prove it type of person. And if you, someone would have told me that story, I'd have said, yeah, whatever. But seeing is truly believing.

• 13:05Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it truly is. I get it completely. Did you ever go back?

• 13:11Speaker 05

  Uh, it took me about a week. But yeah, I, I had some, a pretty good amount of money in that backpack that was hanging in that, you know, behind the deer stand in the tree. So yeah, it took me about a week to build the courage to go back out there, but I did go back out and what I found was a very mangled and torn down tree stand.

• 13:31Wes Germer?

  Yeah, that's kind of an interesting detail. I've talked to many hunters who have never seen their creature. There's weird stuff going on. And they'll come back and their tree stands torn down. Sometimes it's wrapped around a tree. And I've often wondered, you know, is that alpha males doing that? Is that juveniles doing that? When you went back, was there anything taken out of your bag?

• 13:57Speaker 05

  My bag was shredded and everything inside of it was shredded as well, and probably over a 20 meter area. My deer stand was coiled up around the, there was a small pine tree at the base of this, this tree I picked was, uh, you know, a bigger pine. I, I, I tend to to opt for putting my tree stand in pine trees because I'm a smoker. And the thermals that are around all pine trees take my scent straight up in the air. So it really helps with that. So there was a smaller pine at the bottom and yeah, it was, everything was wrapped around that and yeah, it was, everything was just annihilated.

• 14:37Wes Germer?

  Yeah, after hearing this, I really think it it must be the alpha males. Why would a juvenile destroy his little playground he's playing on? Tell me about the second incident.

• 14:51Speaker 05

  Well, I went back out there about two years later. Well, see, after this happened, I I did started doing my research. And realized that, you know, that was a lot more common than I would have ever thought. And I went back. And there was an old guy that lived in the area. His name was John Ridlin. And that guy, he he was a pure hermit. Even though he had money or there was rumors that he had all this money. And after his passing, he did, they did, the family did go out there and buy mason jars full of money. And I mean, he got his clothes from Goodwill. He rolled a, he rode a girl's bike. With tassels on it, one of the old schwens.

• 15:35Speaker 05

  He would go up and down the road and get roadkill, and that's what he would eat. He came up to me one day when I went down there before my second sighting. He just looked at me and said, you better watch out. The one with the straggly looking hair, I think is a Mongol. And he'll mess you up. I thought, okay, Johnny, you know, again, being a weird old hermit, I didn't pay much attention to it. So I went back in the same area and went a little deeper and was scouting out for bear season. Because that particular county has the highest population of black bears in Minnesota, and there's no quota there. So you can just buy a license. You don't have to do the lottery.

• 16:16Speaker 05

  But here or there, I was doing some recon of where to put my stand up and where to start baiting. You know how on the edge of swamps, you get those big clumps of dirt that walking normally, you can almost fall and break your neck on them. Are you familiar with those?

• 16:31Wes Germer?

  I am, yeah.

• 16:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, I was hopping clump to clump. And I was holding on to a tree stand on this clump. And something behind me pushed me into the, pushed me over into the swamp. And it wasn't a stumble, because I felt it on my back. And thought, what the hell? And stood back and got back up. And once I regained my composure, I turned around and

• 16:59Speaker 05

  this straggly looking thing. I mean, he was big, but he was straggly. You know, really mangy looking critter. And at that point, he was probably again, forty, forty-five, fifty yards away. He was moving away after he shoved me. And I got the feeling he didn't mean me any harm, but I also did not want me there. So I got a, I got a good look at this guy.

• 17:25Speaker 05

  So imagine, you know, that guy for a little mascot, whatever you want to call him from the tail of the crypt, that skull looking guy. And you can take that and make him a little more hairy and give him, you know, probably a five foot shoulder span and, but he was very straggly. And eyes were super sunk back into the back of his head. And now I know what Johnny old Johnny Riddling was talking about when he said that, you know, there was something wrong with this guy. Cause yeah, I mean, his, his features just were not right. I mean, I mean, I'm, I'm not saying I've seen a thousand of them. I don't know what they're supposed to look like, but this thing did not look right at all.

• 18:08Speaker 05

  And, you know, you could see his gray skin underneath the black hair and was like all flaky. I mean, I would, I would venture a guess from what I've researched that that's, he, he wasn't normal. I don't know if that was a biological defect or, or what, but yeah, that it was just an icky looking thing.

• 18:31Wes Germer?

  And Jake, what you were looking at, did it look more like a human? Did it look more like an animal?

• 18:38Speaker 05

  Yes, it looked like a, a really, really big human. You know, you hear about these, you know, thirty-six inch forearms in this from other sightings. I mean, it's not like he wasn't big as he was, but he was very, you know, the only word that comes to mind is straggly. I mean, he had big biceps. He had big forearms, huge thighs, big chest, big shoulders, but looks straggly is.

• 19:07Speaker 05

  The mask didn't match the size of the frame, if that makes sense. I would almost describe him as, you know, if I didn't know better, I would say he was the the meth head of the bigfoot world. He was just a scrawny looking thing, but still big, if that makes sense to you.

• 19:26Wes Germer?

  Yeah, in a weird way, that does make sense. So you get pushed down. Tell me what happens next.

• 19:34Speaker 05

  Well, the get the hell out of here kicked back in. And I was a little more genteel about it this time. I just started going back the way I came and, you know, kept kept a good close eye on him and he came two feet towards me and then five feet backed up. It was strange. He kept doing that all the way out to where I hit the, there's an old two rut. There was a house back there. Like I said, it was a life lease. The guy had a about a 45 foot house, believe it or not, with an indoor pool in the middle of this big woods. So he had a nice two rut driveway that went back to the main road. And this thing was coming a couple of steps towards me and several steps away. Until I hit that his old driveway.

• 20:19Speaker 05

  And then it just vanished into the woods.

• 20:22Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and that's what I find weird about his behavior of coming two feet towards you and kind of backing up, coming towards you and then kind of backing up. Would you describe that like a bluff charge?

• 20:35Speaker 05

  Ah, no, I wouldn't even say it wasn't a charge. He was literally just, as I was walking out, he was paralleling me, but he was taking, like I said, two or three steps. It wasn't like he was rushing or he wasn't like a fullback, you know, doing a blitz. He was just literally walking. But it was maybe it was very unsettling. His body language, the way he was doing it, his hands were shaking. His shoulders were kind of trembling. It was, it was really weird. You could see the muscle, you know, muscle that all primates have from their their neck to their shoulder, especially males. I forget the name of the word for it, but you know what I'm talking about, right?

• 21:20Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I think you're talking about the trapezius, kind of the upper trapezius.

• 21:24Speaker 05

  Yes, thank you. Well, you could see him trembling. It was, it was just bizarre. And like I said, all the way out, and it was probably a quarter mile. He did this. Like I said, he wasn't acting threatening, but it was almost more threatening when the way he was acting in my head, anyway. It was like I said, he would come, he paralleled me out, he would come two steps, always two steps forward towards me, and then he would back up three to five steps away. And then, you know, I'd do three strides and he'd do it again. It was just bizarre.

• 22:03Wes Germer?

  How far away from you, Jake, was this creature when he was doing this? Where it kind of move up on you, then back off, then move up? What kind of a distance are we talking about?

• 22:15Speaker 05

  Uh, he kept about fifteen to twenty meters away at all times. Because unfortunately, where he was and the way, like I said, he was parallel on me out, I had to hook. He was east of me and I had to hook east at one point because there's a standing water swamp that hooks around a piece of woods. So I actually had to go towards him at one point. He, he, he kept that, you know, same distance away from me all the way out till I hit that driveway.

• 22:44Wes Germer?

  What do you make of him doing that behavior?

• 22:48Speaker 05

  Well, I, like I said, with no, with no baseline of how they're supposed to be, I really don't know. It was, you know, but he, I've spent, as an engineer, I, uh, I'm a federal contractor, so I end up all over the country. Normally I have to have all my stuff with me. I'm a structural engineer, so I've got a lot of tools I carry with me, so I can't fly, I have to drive. So I've been listening to a lot of different podcasts and encounters and things, and I've never heard anything like this before. So that's why I figured that you and your listeners would, you know, enjoy this one because it's something new. And like I said, I don't know how to describe it, but it was very unsettling.

• 23:30Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I would imagine I would have taken the whole behavior as aggressive. You know, him pushing you in the back and it kind of pushing you over. That's the wrong way to start a relationship or probably would have put a bullet in him just for doing that. What do you make of his behavior throughout this whole encounter? I mean, him pushing you and then kind of like almost bluff charging you out, but not really.

• 23:57Speaker 05

  Well, like I said, you know, it was unsettling in real time. hindsight's always 2020, but I mean, I think if he wanted to be aggressive, he would have done, could have done more than giving me a shove. Cause I had no idea he was there until I, you know, felt a shove on my back. And then even then it took me a few minutes to lock onto him, you know, as he moved away quickly. And I went back there a week later and at that point I was irritated. I was mad. I thought, all right, I've been hunting out here since I was 12 years old. You know, and now at that point I'm in my third late, mid to late 30s and I'm thinking, no, not, not going to happen. So I actually went back and again, armed to the teeth.

• 24:42Speaker 05

  And this time I wasn't going to take any crap if something was gonna, you know, pace me and try to be a jerk. I understand that's probably their home territory, whatever their range, territory, whatever you want to call it. But I went back out there. I went to the spot I got shoved and there was a track there because, you know, it was real mushy, mossy stuff. Where, you know, a footprint takes a month to go away. I guess I went back about a week later and yeah, he, I can tell where he, from his trackway. He had basically circled me for about a hundred yards before I was shoved.

• 25:22Speaker 05

  So he was north of me, somehow was able to get around me without me detecting him. To get behind me to the south to give me a shove. And I had stuck with me. I mean, again, I was no expert by any means, but I would add some plaster with me if I'd have known better, but I found his tracks were fourteen and three quarters inches long. I mean, I had that eerie you're being watched feeling, but I did not see anything. And on the way out, I did hear, you know, a double whistle when I hit the two, you know, the two red or driveway, whatever you call it. And that was no bird because it had percussion behind it.

• 26:09Wes Germer?

  How tall was this creature? And if you would, I mean, would you describe it more human? Would you describe it more like an animal?

• 26:18Speaker 05

  Well, the his looking at him, I would say he was more human, but he acted more like an animal. Like I said, it's really hard to describe, but you know, the, the only thing I could really do to enhance this, and I probably should have done it by now, is if I ever get a chance, I'm gonna have a sketch artist, you know, do this thing up because he was bizarre looking. You know, he's not this big mountain of a beast like you see and hear about, you know, he was straggly in, in comparison to his frame and size. Um, I, I would guess for based on the features where I saw him, I did pick one branch that was approximately, you

• 27:02Speaker 05

  know, where his head was. And I measured that. It came back at nine foot three. So that's, that's real close to like I said, that's not exact, but that's, it's within two or three inches of his real height. So.

• 27:16Wes Germer?

  And what year did this happen in Jake?

• 27:20Speaker 05

  That was 1996. I'm sorry, 19, I'm sorry, 2009.

• 27:29Wes Germer?

  You know, a lot of times when these creatures get close like that, you would think if they go hands on, they're gonna hurt you. I mean, he did push you, which would have pissed me off, but why do you think that he didn't cause any real harm towards you? He didn't really hurt you?

• 27:48Speaker 05

  Um, I don't know. I I've thought about that a lot, and I don't know. The best thing, you know, if you're gonna go off of animal instinct, I'm very familiar. Like I said, I'd been down there for, you know, almost 30 years at that point. Doing, you know, bow hunting, rifle hunting, bear hunting, grouse hunting. I mean, I've been over every inch of that. You know, that's an 890 acre range where I was at. I've been over every inch of that thing that, you know, was passable. That's not underwater bog swamp. So maybe it's familiarity. I don't know. Maybe that was him that was stealing my, my snacks out of my backpack. I have no idea. But he,

• 28:31Speaker 05

  he didn't try to. What baffles me is you hear these things, people, you know, see a sighting, and they they vanish. Well, this thing was not even coming close to trying to hide when I was trying to get out of there. Like I said, he was paralleling me out, and that whole back and forth thing was really bizarre.

• 28:50Wes Germer?

  Do you think it was the same one that you ran into in the early 80s?

• 28:55Speaker 05

  No, no way.

• 28:57Speaker 05

  The the first one I saw was very healthy looking, very, like I said, you know, like you would see at the zoo type of primate, you know, that you that juvenile. There's no way that could have been the same animal.

• 29:11Wes Germer?

  You know, when he had that encounter back in the 80s and he saw what you describe as like a chimpanzee playing on it, and then many years later, you're running into this thing, how far away is the distance between those two places?

• 29:27Speaker 05

  As the crow flies, probably somewhere around an eighth of a mile, maybe a little bit, maybe a little better. I wish it would have been, you know, five years later because I'd had a decent smartphone with, you know, a camera on it, but it wasn't and I didn't, so.

• 29:44Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I hear you. Let me ask you, when you were looking at the face, would you kind of describe the face of this thing that you were looking at?

• 29:54Speaker 05

  Yes, like as I was saying, you know, from you hear these traditional sightings and, you know, renderings, people have done drawings, whatnot. It didn't look like that. Like I said, the eyes were way sunk back in the back of his head. His nostrils were, you know, were wide, but again, it's kind of countersunk into the skull. It was just really, really bizarre. He had more of a mouth of a human than of a primate. So that's what really I found bizarre. I mean, there was no slathering fangs or anything. And he wasn't, you know, other than humping, breathing, he he wasn't, you know, I like, again, I hate to go back to primates because that, but that's the only reference point I have.

• 30:36Speaker 05

  He did curl his upper lip a couple of times and, you know, in primates, that's a sign of, you know, aggravation or annoyance, you know? Everyone thinks, oh, cute, the chimp is smiling. No, the chimp is nervous or aggravated. And he was, like I said, he did a couple of times curl that upper lip and you could see clearly see canines. And, you know, typical looking teeth, but nothing that really stands out. I mean, they weren't really huge, you know? I mean, they were scalable to the body frame, but they didn't have these, you know, big canines or, you know, incisors that people talk about. Now, like I said, he had more of a human face, but like a deformed human face is the best way I could describe it, I guess.

• 31:22Speaker 05

  And he was doing, I know it was a male because he was doing a penile display and then I'll try to keep it family friendly here, but you know what, what chimps do when they're displaying, right?

• 31:33Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I appreciate you keeping it family friendly. I do know what you're talking about.

• 31:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was very similar. With a much larger feature than a chimp, obviously. It was just bizarre.

• 31:46Wes Germer?

  And I know we're in 2009 now and the other encounter was in the eighties. Did you know what you were looking at? Or were you just kind of thinking I ran into some weird monster?

• 31:59Speaker 05

  Um, like I said, after I, you know, saw that juvenile, I started doing a lot of homework, especially, you know, when the internet came out and became, you know, a good database. So I, I was positive of what I was looking at, but what threw me, especially hindsight was, you know, what it wasn't this big hairy strapping beast that, you know, you hear about all the time. It was really quite freaky, like I said, and you know, maybe he was weird compared to others, you know? We've got to go back to what Johnny, you know, Johnny Riddlin said. I never said a word to him about it. He just told me, watch out for the straggly looking one. I think he's a Mongoloid. So.

• 32:42Speaker 05

  You know, Johnny passed away that same year. I wish I could actually talk to him a little more. Maybe he knew more than most, you know, than you would think because he lived less than half a mile from this piece of land. So.

• 32:58Speaker 05

  And you know, it's hard to say, but I, I would say that it's something, this did not feel right with it. It wasn't like. You know, I was being chased out by a bear because you know, they look nice and healthy. This thing wasn't right. I don't know.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  Like I said, maybe it was Mongoloidish. I don't know. Cause like I said, I, I don't have a good baseline comparison, but it didn't seem right at all.

• 33:23Wes Germer?

  And I know you went back and found those tracks, but beyond that, have you ever gone back to this location?

• 33:30Speaker 05

  I don't get back there much now since then. The gentleman that owned it passed away and it's now part of state forest. So they logged off a bunch of it and I've only been back a few times since then and nothing happened. And you know, I went back and I looked for tracks and whatnot. Yeah, I never found anything.

• 33:52Wes Germer?

  Let me ask you, Jake, you know, I've interviewed many hunters and it kind of affects everyone differently. Some hunters kind of give up hunting, other hunters don't. But especially after having these two encounters, how did this kind of affect you?

• 34:11Speaker 05

  It makes me a lot more alert on my way to and from my deer stand, believe me. And you know, for the first two, three years, you know, I'm one of those guys that I'm out there a good hour before daylight. Just like I said, mask my scent and you know, get the woods nice and quiet and the critters run around and early morning, you know, birds chirping and whatnot. And that doesn't happen unless you're out there well before daylight and makes you think twice about walking out there in the woods on a trail, you know, and I was one of those people that I would have little reflective, you know, stickers on the tree I would put on every year. I could pop

• 34:53Speaker 05

  my flashlight on for a second and shut it off as I see the reflective trail through there. Make sure you don't head the right way. Makes you think long and hard about, you know, heading out at quarter to six in the morning when it doesn't get daylight till seven.

• 35:10Wes Germer?

  Yeah, nothing wrong with being more aware of your surroundings and being more alert of what's going on around you. When it pushed you, do you think it was trying to hurt you?

• 35:21Speaker 05

  I think it was just trying to prove a point that one, I wasn't wanted and two, I could take you anytime I want to type of mentality. I mean, that's, that's kind of what I, again hindsight, that's kind of what I took from it.

• 35:35Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I'm not sure how I would have reacted with it pushing me, especially being armed. I think I would have started shooting. I think I'd have been so pissed off. And that's just ego talking. I've seen them. I probably wouldn't have done, I probably wouldn't have done anything.

• 35:51Speaker 05

  Even being straggly looking and weird looking, he could have snapped me like a twig. And I'm, you know, at the time, I'm, I'm still, I'm six, four. And at that time I was extremely fit and, you know, 240 pounds of solid muscle. And I, I have no doubt that that straggly thing could have busted me up.

• 36:13Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it's easy to be tough and talk a big game until you run into one. And then that ego seems to fall apart pretty quick. You know, going back to your first encounter, I know you said you thought chimpanzee. Kind of think that's where my mind would have gone to like, is there a chimp out here running loose? But in Minnesota, that makes no sense.

• 36:37Speaker 05

  Until I heard the roar. I thought, you know, somebody's illegal pet got away. And that's the, is the very first thing I thought, but once I heard that roar, I knew that was not the case. And plus, like I said, I, you know, I got a good, I don't know, three to five minutes of looking at it until it started making that whimpering noise. And, you know, I'm assuming it was mama that did the roar. And then like I said, after a good, good, close look at him, there's no way that was a, a chimp or a, you know, mountain gorilla or any type of, you know, natural known ape. The torso was too long. Like I said, hardly any hair on the arms, but

• 37:23Speaker 05

  the torso and head were matted, matted buzzy type hair. You know, there, there's no way that could have been a known prey.

• 37:30Wes Germer?

  And I might have missed that in the beginning, but it obviously had seen you. That's why it was whimpering right before you heard that roar.

• 37:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's what I said before, when it finally saw me. And it just did the, you know, that was for, you know,

• 37:51Speaker 05

  but much lower, deeper and louder. That's when the roar from hell came blasting across the woods, so.

• 37:58Wes Germer?

  Yeah, roar from hell is a good way to put it. It'll let you know where you stand in life pretty quick, you know? It'll, uh, it'll definitely check your ego. Let me ask you, out of all the years of hunting this area, have you ever seen the lights?

• 38:16Speaker 05

  Um, I've seen, yeah, I've seen that a couple of times. And like I said in my youth before these sightings, but there's, like I said, this is a nasty on the edge of a, right in the middle is a nasty bog swamp that runs through there. And I always, you know, put that up as discharge methane because there's a lot of it there that comes out, so. If that the case, I don't know, but yes, I've gone to occasions, usually when it was foggy, early morning, I saw lights out there.

• 38:47Speaker 05

  Uh, like I said, it's hard to describe without, you know, having a visual of the way this woods is set up. But imagine a nice big ridge at the bottom is a massive god awful swamp that goes on for miles. And, you know, you've got, I don't know, probably 150 yards or, you know, maybe

• 39:11Speaker 05

  200 meters of, uh, of pure bog until it's standing water swamp. And, you know, a lot of beaver dams and, you know, that kind of paints the picture something right out. You see it out of the middle of nowhere in Alaska is what it looks like. And both occasions, like I said, it was early morning, heavy fog on the ground. You know, coming up out of the swamp was orbs and I'd say the first time was about 300 meters. Second time was about 450 and glassed them with my binoculars. And like I said, I rationalized it as, you know, methane. And they were clearish blue and at that distance without binoculars to the naked eye, I would say they were.

• 39:59Speaker 05

  Eight, eight inches to 14 inches in diameter. It's hard to gauge at that distance, you know, but

• 40:07Speaker 05

  from that's what it looked like to be to me from that at that distance. You know, if I could have been like I said, they look much bigger with binoculars. Close to, you know, I'd say about 20 inches to maybe 30 was with my 1040 loopholes. So.

• 40:26Wes Germer?

  Looking back now at those moments, do you think it was methane?

• 40:31Speaker 05

  I don't know. Like I said, I'm a engineer. I've studied it. I have no, no rational explanation part. Cause I mean, like I said, when I saw it, I was a lot younger before I was, you know, highly educated and yeah, I just, oh, that's just methane, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, doing my research on methane, it doesn't do that. So at least not in that color. So I, I don't know what it was.

• 41:01Wes Germer?

  Well, let me ask you, Jake, you know, being an engineer and kind of having a scientific mind. I've seen the lights on two occasions and on both occasions, I can tell you that I had the feeling like this thing was watching me as much as I was watching it. It seemed to be intelligent and I really have no way to measure that or really articulate that more than a feeling. But you'll often hear that from eyewitnesses to where when they run into these balls of lights, they'll say that they'll say this thing seemed to be very intelligent. It seemed to be controlled as it was moving around. This wasn't something random like methane gas or something natural.

• 41:46Wes Germer?

  But you also find where hunters will run into them in the woods. And they'll describe these weird balls of light that they run into. I just wish there was a great answer. I wish I could give a great answer to someone. A natural explanation being like, oh, it's X, Y, and Z. That's what people are actually seeing. But I don't know that I can. And the lights really caught my attention. When I would talk to eyewitnesses who have these creatures on their property, usually the conversation would go. You know, they would tell you about the encounter and running into these creatures.

• 42:26Wes Germer?

  And then they would always end the conversation with, oh, and by the way, I'm also seeing these weird balls of light. Sometimes people run into these lights and there's no Sasquatch around. There's nothing really weird going on beyond these weird lights. And other times it seems like they hang around where encounters happen or on people's property. As far as being an engineer and kind of having that scientific mind, what is it you think people are actually seeing?

• 42:58Speaker 05

  I'm at a loss. I don't know. I mean, you know, I mean, I'm going to say this, it could only be something extraterrestrial, extraterrestrial or something. I mean, they don't move logically enough to be a natural phenomenon from what I've researched.

• 43:16Wes Germer?

  You know, the main thing that draws my suspicion about these lights is the fact that they sure seem to show up a lot when these creatures are around or around areas where these creatures are being seen. Like I said earlier, man, the first time it really captured my attention was when people would describe having these creatures on their property. And then they're like, oh, and by the way, I'm also seeing these weird lights. And that's when I was like, wait a minute, tell me about these weird lights. We'll get to Bigfoot in a second. And it would happen over and over and over again in interviews. And like I said, I've seen them twice.

• 43:58Wes Germer?

  And I'll send you the video if you want to watch it of the one me and my brother captured. It was in that area where we saw those creatures, not at the same time, completely different time where nothing happened, but we just saw this weird light. And it was just this ball of light and it was blue. In the, in the video, everything's chrome green because it was shot with the night vision camera. And then the other one that I saw was at the Browns property. It wasn't blue. But in both occasions, I can tell you, I just had a feeling like this thing is watching us. This thing is intelligent.

• 44:38Wes Germer?

  And again, I have no way to measure that or kind of explain myself when I say that it was just more of a feeling. And the one I saw at the Browns property wasn't blue. It was kind of, and I know you and I kind of grew up around the same timeframe. It was kind of an orange. Remember those crappy flashlights in the eighties? And they had the kind of that orange, yellowish light to them.

• 45:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Ones that took two double D's.

• 45:11Wes Germer?

  Exactly. And they had that orange kind of a dull light. You think those batteries would pump out more light, but they never did. And I mean, that's kind of what we saw at the Browns property. I don't get it. I don't get why these lights show up or what they are.

• 45:28Speaker 05

  I don't know. It's, it's bizarre. And like I said, I've done research on it. I've tried to apply logic to it. And it's, I'm coming up with a blank. I don't know.

• 45:40Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I just hate it when eyewitnesses come on and they're like, what are these lights? No clue. Why are they showing up on our property when Sasquatch shows up? Great question. No clue. It's frustrating, man. Let me ask you, on both occasions, you got a really good look at both of these creatures. Ask everyone on the show, what do you think they are? And because you got such a good look, what do you think these creatures actually are?

• 46:11Speaker 05

  Well, obviously they're definitely flesh and blood from at least what I saw. I didn't mean, do I, you hear about the shape shift or stuff? I really don't buy into a lot of that, but again, I know I like facts, though. I don't know. I mean, I, like I said, I would definitely say they're flesh and blood. If there's some other aspect of them, I don't know. But like I said, I definitely think they're flesh and blood. And I don't think they should be messed with. I think they should be respected and just left alone.

• 46:45Speaker 05

  Because like I said, that thing could have messed me up bad. I would have never known until it was happening. And I'm not easy to sneak up on, believe me.

• 46:54Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I agree with you. I think that they are flesh and blood. Would you say they're more animal? Would you say they're more human?

• 47:02Speaker 05

  I would say they're more animal. Said the critter I saw, at least the adult. I said, I believe that going off what Johnny warned me about, I think there was something wrong with this one. You know, in the biology pool, like you, you know, I'd say mongoloid or retard or, you know, however, wherever. You want word you want to use for that. I think this one was off compared to what a normal one would probably be.

• 47:31Speaker 05

  He was, it looked too weird and he acted too weird. I mean, there was no, no logic at all to what he was doing.

• 47:39Speaker 05

  I mean, like I said, he wasn't, if he was trying to bluff charge me, he would have came up a lot closer than what he did. The only time he got close was when he was behind me and I wasn't aware of his presence. After that, he kept his distance. So. He wasn't scared of me, but he also wasn't being that aggressive. I mean, I believe his body language was aggressive, but. Like I said, it's really hard to, to put, you know, actual description to what he was doing. I haven't never seen it before or since, so.

• 48:10Wes Germer?

  You know, the only thing I really have to compare this with would be known primates. And I'm not saying Sasquatch is by any means a known primate, but I don't know how else to compare this. A lot of times when you'll see like chimpanzees or gorillas, they don't just like bum rush you and attack you. It's almost like they kind of have to work themselves up or work up the courage to kind of attack you. And you'll see it with chimps to where they'll do a display, even gorillas, they'll do this weird display. And then they'll attack you. I almost wonder if that's what he was doing?

• 48:50Wes Germer?

  When he would kind of rush towards you and then back off, rush towards you and then back off. I almost wonder if he was like working up the courage to actually attack you.

• 49:01Speaker 05

  That could be, I mean, I know exactly what you're talking about. Like I said, primates have been an interest of mine my whole life since I was a kid, since I first saw him at the zoo. And I've actually studied primates long before this happened. Just my interest in primates, not Bigfoot. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's, I was actually running through my head as I was trying to get out of there with him doing this was, you know, with, especially with chimpanzees, you know, they'll give you that false sense of security. And, you know, while their hair is standing up and they're all aggravated, they'll turn their head away. Yeah, that's what I was thinking was, is this thing just trying to give me a false sense of security that, you know,

• 49:41Speaker 05

  he's just here and not really going to do anything. I mean, between, you know, to be honest with you, that's what I was thinking as I was trying to get out of there was, is he just building up for the big charge, but it never came. He just, once I hit the road, he disappeared.

• 49:58Wes Germer?

  Let me ask you, Jake, if you had the chance, would you ever want to see another one?

• 50:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, yes, as long as I was well armed. And I'm not talking about a 3030 here. I mean, these things are, you know, even him, you know, he was big in the other, you know, renderings I've seen, you know, it's, it's, it's going to take more than nine millimeter to take this thing down. So as long as I was well armed, if I had a 338 Lapua in my 500 Smith and Wesson, I'd feel pretty secure in seeing one. But other than that, I wouldn't want to even.

• 50:32Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I hear you. I always say I'd like to see another one, but maybe from a helicopter, holding a rifle. I would love to see another one. It's probably a terrible thing to say, but that's kind of how I feel. And you're an educated man, Jake. Why is it you think we haven't been able to catch up with them?

• 50:52Speaker 05

  Well, let's, if you weigh that down into pure science, okay? The only thing that can really catch anything without, you know, any, without being able to mask it is thermal, because, I mean, you can hide from thermal, as I'm sure you probably know, but if you hide from thermal, now you've got a glossy looking block. Okay? So you're still detected, even if you're not detectable.

• 51:20Speaker 05

  So I, I think, once, as thermal keeps getting better and better and better each year by leaps and bounds, I think it's just a matter of time. I think that they're products of their environment, and they know it well. I mean, they're masters of camouflage. So I mean, I can, I've had people walk within five feet of me in the woods and they had no idea I was there, wearing a ghillie suit, you know, during the foliage time of year, and they were completely clueless, and I could have reached out and touched them. So, and I don't live in the woods, so I think that they're familiar with their own house, and it's just a matter of time. I think as thermal gets better, especially with these drones,

• 52:01Speaker 05

  we're, we're gonna be able to get some, our corp proof here, in my opinion. Uh, like I said, I just think, like I said, it's just they're, they're good at hiding in their own house. Like, you know, you or I in our own yard, in our garage, we could hide from, you know, say law enforcement or whatever, until they tore the place apart. I mean, I think they're just a good product of their own environment, and I think it is just a matter of time. You know, and I, I don't know, necessarily believe that one has to be killed to, you know, prove it. I think as the, like I said, especially thermal. Thermal doesn't lie, so I think as that gets better, it's just a matter of time before they can't hide as well as I think they do.

• 52:46Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Seems like a lot of work, though, to catch up with something we've been chasing forever. It doesn't seem like it would take that much work. But, you know, who knows? Hopefully, one day it'll be solved. I'll tell you what's strange about these creatures. You know, like in your situation, especially that second one, Jake, if it would have been a bear or a cougar, and most of the time they'll flee from you, but if they don't, they're going to hand it to you. And a lot of times with these creatures, even when they're aggressive, which I would consider that second encounter very aggressive,

• 53:25Wes Germer?

  rarely does anyone get killed, or even really hurt. And it's strange when you compare it to, like, normal wildlife. It's almost like these things either have like a weird humanity in them. I don't know.

• 53:40Speaker 05

  Well, I would say, like I said, even with the one I saw, the adult, you know, even if there was something wrong with him mentally, he didn't, like I said, he didn't want me there, but there was no, didn't seem any way other than, you know, what was already in my head from studying primates, you know, my preconceived notions of like what a chimpanzee would do versus what he was doing. And, you know, the only logic I can put to that part was, like I said, what I've studied on chimps, because it was a very similar deception before

• 54:18Speaker 05

  attack, you know what I mean? So I just don't think they just want to be left alone, I think, in my opinion.

• 54:28Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and you could be right, Jake. You know, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on and share these two encounters with us. There's many times where I've talked to hunters who've had their tree stands like torn down and like wrapped around a tree. I mean, there's no way humans doing that. But it was insightful, man. I appreciate your time, and I really enjoyed chatting with you.

• 54:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's absolutely no way that the damage done to that deer stand was done by a human. They had a chain on it and a nylon, you know, backup safety strap around it. And the chain, the loop and screw were broken into a rock and nylon backup strap was actually ripped. So, no way a guy did that. It wasn't cut with a knife. It was too frayed for that. So, it was torn.

• 55:22Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I believe you. It sounds like other witnesses that I've talked to who kind of described the same thing. But I appreciate you coming on again, Jake.

• 55:33Speaker 05

  Well, no problem.

• 55:34Wes Germer?

  And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.