SC EP:1218 Three Strange Days

Preston writes "This experience happened during an autumn fishing trip for brook trout in one of the most isolated regions of the Adirondack Mountains. To reach this area is no small task. First, you have to cross a reservoir by boat an eight mile ride across water that itself lies nearly forty miles from the nearest town. Once across, you reach the trailhead. From there, the route winds past a series of ponds deeper into the wilderness. The first leg is a 1.2 mile hike to the first lake. From there, you can either hike around it or paddle straight across. My fishing partner and I use Kevlar/carbon-fiber canoes light enough to carry, so if weather allows, we paddle the lake instead. That lake is roughly two miles long. After taking out on the far side, the trail continues another 1.5 miles into the Five Ponds Wilderness. At the second lake, the trail turns north and becomes more of a bushwhack through old-growth timber, with mountains rising on both sides. That stretch is another two miles, heading deeper into the wilderness until you finally reach the destination lake. This area is considered one of the three most isolated locations in the entire Adirondack Park relative to civilization. It's an absolutely stunning place completely secluded, ringed by mountains, with water that looks glacial and holds trophy class brook trout. It's truly one of my favorite places on Earth. We arrived around mid-morning on the first day and immediately started fishing. We caught plenty of fish, and everything felt normal. As evening approached, we gathered firewood, set up our tents, cooked dinner, and sat around talking. At one point, I stood up and did a Bigfoot call followed by a loud tree knock. It was something we used to do as a joke in less remote areas to mess with other campers. My buddy laughed, and we turned in for the night. https://sasquatchchronicles.com/strange-situation-deep-in-the-adirondacks/adirondacks/ Sometime in the middle of the night, we were jolted awake by the sound of a large tree falling not far from camp. It scared the hell out of us. The night was completely calm no wind at all. What struck us immediately was the silence. No peeper frogs. No wood frogs. No loons on the lake. No breeze. Just absolute stillness. It felt wrong. We stayed in our tents until around 4:30 a.m., when we were awakened again this time by a rhythmic pounding, like something repeatedly striking a tree. The hits were forceful, evenly spaced, about every three seconds. It continued steadily until after sunrise, coming from the direction of the trailhead. We tried to rationalize it. I suggested a woodpecker, though I didn't believe it. Then I floated the idea that maybe two moose were sparring since it was close to the rut but neither of us bought that either. The consistency and power of the blows didn't feel natural. It also made us rethink the fallen tree from earlier. I wondered if it could've been a beaver, since they're nocturnal and nearby ponds were close but none of it fully added up. We eventually got moving, launched the canoes, and spent the day fishing. We practice catch and release unless a fish is mortally wounded, which unfortunately happened that day. We kept that fish, cooked it for dinner, then went back out on the water until dark. As we paddled back to camp at twilight, I noticed what looked like a dark shape partially concealed behind a massive old-growth pine that leaned out over the lake. It was nearly night, and the woods were pitch black but whatever this was appeared darker than the surrounding darkness. I chalked it up to my imagination and kept paddling. Later, as we were getting ready to crawl into our tents, I noticed lights hovering over the lake. I'd seen these before on a few occasions. There was one main light above the water, and smaller lights would split off from it, drifting away on either side. Eventually, the main light dimmed, and the smaller lights faded out entirely. I'll be honest I'm terrified of aliens, and having seen unexplained things before, I was already on edge. Lying in my tent, I suddenly felt heavy thuds on the ground. I yelled to Casey and grabbed my headlamp, assuming a black bear had wandered into camp. When I stepped out, I found a snowshoe hare at my feet. This was the largest hare I've ever seen and it showed absolutely no fear. It hopped right up to me and just sat there, right next to my boots. We couldn't understand why a wild animal would act that way. It was as if it was seeking shelter. The hare stayed by the fire with us like it was an old friend. Eventually, I went back to my tent and left it there by the fire. Later that night, another tree fell nearby. We lay in our tents talking quietly about it before eventually drifting off. Once again, near dawn, the tree pounding started same cadence, same duration continuing until the sun came up. That day, we headed to the north end of the lake, where a massive dome-shaped mountain rises with cliffs and sweeping views. That end of the lake acts like a natural amphitheater. Casey decided to hike the mountain to try to get cell service and check the weather for our departure. The climb is brutal you have to crawl on your hands and feet for much of it. The mountain rises about 3,000 feet, with sections that feel nearly vertical. On the back side is an exposed cliff overlooking other ponds, and that's where you can sometimes get fleeting reception. While Casey was climbing and calling his wife, I stayed behind fishing along the opposite shoreline, parallel to the mountain. At one point, I saw trees moving on the slope and assumed it was him. I yelled out his nickname. "Is that you, Poop?!" What answered me was one of the most nerve wracking sounds I've ever heard a blood-curdling scream that sounded like a woman being murdered, assaulted, and losing a child all at once. I know that sounds extreme, but it's the only way I can describe it. Worse still, whatever made that sound was moving fast crashing through trees and running across terrain so steep we'd had to crawl up it earlier. The scream shook me to my core. I was convinced Casey was dying. I gathered myself and paddled hard toward the sound, yelling his name. No response. Eventually, he came down the mountain. I confronted him, telling him not to mess around like that I thought he was in serious trouble. He looked at me completely confused and said, "What the hell are you talking about?" He told me he'd been on the far side of the mountain facing another pond. He heard something faint but assumed I'd hooked a big brook trout or was yelling in excitement. That night was deeply unsettling. The woods felt wrong unnaturally silent. It sounded like people talking at the far end of the pond, always just out of earshot, followed by faint, distant screams throughout the night. Morning couldn't come fast enough. We woke again to the same rhythmic tree pounding. This time, I decided to investigate. I headed toward the sound, crossing a creek and climbing a nearby hill. As soon as I reached the area where I believed it was coming from, it stopped instantly. That was it. I packed up my gear and canoe, and we got out of there. About a half mile down the trail on our way out, we passed through a muddy stretch between two hills. In the middle of the mud pit about twenty feet long and twelve feet wide was a single, distinct footprint. It looked as if something had stepped straight down into the mud from the hillside and climbed back out the other side. I took a video, which I later lost when I misplaced the SD card, but I did save a screenshot that I still have. Inside the print was a mature beech leaf typically three to five inches long placing the track somewhere between twelve and fifteen inches in length. I don't know what was going on out there. I've spent my entire life in the woods, often solo, and had been to that lake many times before without issue. I've only returned once since, in 2018. Other hardcore backcountry anglers I know have mentioned strange feelings in that area, though nothing as intense. This wasn't the only odd experience I've had in that wilderness either. Another incident occurred even deeper in the Five Ponds Wilderness among untouched old growth forest stranger still. You couldn't pay me to hike the one way, eleven plus miles back in there again. Something is going on in that section of the Adirondacks. I've heard stories from others that only reinforce that feeling. As a final oddity, on our way out that day, Casey and I ran into two armed military personnel carrying AR-style rifles. They were friendly, walked us back toward their camp, showed us around, and then escorted us partway before we continued to our vehicle. The whole experience was strange, start to finish and it's stayed with me ever since." https://sasquatchchronicles.com/?attachment_id=281456

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me. They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw bears.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting?

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Jesus Christ, you better... Karen, see ya!

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Hello?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Get somebody out of here.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  What's going on now, sir?

• 1:23Speaker 03

  That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Do you see him now, sir?

• 1:27Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-uh.

• 1:35Speaker 04

  This is Alicia from Kennesaw, Georgia, and you're listening to the best podcast on the planet, Sasquatch Chronicles.

• 2:10Wes Germer?

  Happy New Year and welcome to the show. Tonight we'll be speaking with Preston. In 2017 Preston and his friend went out on a three day fishing trip into the Anarondacks and it turned into a very strange and unforgettable three days. I'll let Preston go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected] and if you get a chance to check out sasquatchchronicles.com you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Preston to the show. Preston, thanks for coming on.

• 2:54Speaker 06

  No problem. Thanks for having me.

• 2:55Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I appreciate you being here and I know back in 2017 you and your friend had a very scary and strange three days out there in the Anarondacks. I want to ask you, prior to this happening to you, what was kind of your take on Sasquatch?

• 3:12Speaker 06

  Well, I mean, it was always interesting, I suppose, you know, watching Monster Quest and things like that after school. Besides that, I didn't really give it any thought. I've always been in the woods since literally I was in diapers. You know, I have a picture of me with my grandfather and my first cousin holding a brook trout. I was in diapers and an elf hat. So those are some of my first memories. I've just, I know everything that's in the Anarondacks. I've been familiar with it my whole life. I just never thought something like this could be there. It just, you know, it's kind of mind boggling. I just, I don't understand how something that large could be in an area. I mean, the Adirondack Park is a giant park.

• 3:58Speaker 06

  But it's not, it's not as, as isolated as everybody thinks. There's, there's very isolated pockets around the park and it is heavily forested. A lot of people think, you know, the Adirondacks was clear cut and it's just not what it was, but a lot of that old growth has grown back, you know, a second cut, but it's still old growth. These are very thick forests. It's very unforgiving terrain. The bugs are incredibly vicious. It's, it's a special spot. It's a special place. It's old, you know, it's, it just feels old. It feels like it has just a memory to the land. It's, it's just, I did just home, you know, I love it. I don't live in

• 4:39Speaker 06

  the Adirondacks anymore, but I'm very, very close to the park. So I'm, I'm there as much as I possibly can be.

• 4:48Wes Germer?

  I hear you. Well, if you would, would you start from the very beginning? Kind of take me back to 2017. What were you doing and what happened?

• 4:58Speaker 06

  Okay. So my, my fishing partner, we love brook trout fishing. That was kind of our, our whole thing. We have our Kevlar, carbon fiber Kevlar hybrid canoes. Um, and just backpacking canoes. You know, you put them on your back and you hike as far into the, into the woods as you can. The farther away from the road you get, the better the fishing is. And the D E C stocks a fair amount of ponds. I don't know what the, the current brook trout pond population is. I think it's over 300 now, but anyway, we were, uh, just doing our, our, our ritual, you know? I used to work all winter and I'd take off spring to fall, just,

• 5:42Speaker 06

  just to fish, just to fish for brook trout. And, uh, my buddy did the same thing. So we get our stuff. We get it to, you have to cross a, a large body of water, eight miles or so to get to the trailhead. You get to the trailhead. Get all your stuff unpacked, get it on your shoulders, start hiking it. The first, uh, the first leg of the, the hike is about a 1.2 miles till you hit a lake and you can either, you can either paddle this lake or you can hike around the lake. We chose to paddle it, um, you know, it's just, it's easier. It's a lot less taxing and you can throw the rod out the back and fish on your way across the lake.

• 6:24Speaker 06

  So when you get to the other end of that, that lake, trail picks back up. Then it's another mile or so to, uh, another lake. And then the trail turns north and this is where the trail turns into a bushwhack. Now, when we used to go there, it was, it was a bushwhack trail, you know, there was very, very rarely used. We've only seen a few people there ever. One was just a through hiker, an older gentleman. And, uh, the other was a group of, of younger guys. That were, uh, basically following us, you know, they, we walked past those lakes.

• 7:02Speaker 06

  And they just decided, well, those guys must know where they're going. So about seven hours later, they ended up on, on that lake that we were intending to be at. We hit the bushwhack section of the trail and it's always pretty muddy and it's uphill most of the way. It's not a crazy uphill play, but it's, it's high country on both sides. And on the right side, if you're facing north, the right side has the outlet of the lake. So there's always like a little creek running. That feeds back into some of the other lakes. On the way up, there's mud pits, there's all kinds of little obstacles. The Adirondacks is known for its slippery mud and roots.

• 7:44Speaker 06

  And, uh, you know, it's just a little bit of a battle getting back there. It's nothing crazy. I mean, maybe I'm making it sound worse than it is. It's not, it's not terrible. It's not great. And it can be taxing, but it's, it's rewarding. So especially when you get to the pond, you get to the pond and. There's a, a nice campsite. Now, the, the campsite, the original campsite is on the south end of the pond. For some reason, just the way the mountains around the pond are configured, swirls the, the wind in a way that pushes all the old peat and everything just, just formed like a tiny little island at that end of the pond. So it's just all, it's just peat. So everything

• 8:27Speaker 06

  is like a drum. Like it's spongy, but it's hard and it's just root laden with, with pine roots. And you can feel anything. You can feel pine cone drop. Feels like someone threw a baseball at the ground under your feet. So, but we, uh, we get our stuff settled in, get our tins put up. You know, usually we, we would just want to get out and fish immediately. So we'd never stack wood or do any of that. Cut wood right off the bat. We'd get right out there and we'd get fishing.

• 8:59Speaker 06

  So we get out there, we're, uh, we're trolling. We know exactly where to go. We've, you know, we've picked this lake apart. We've been here many times. Go right to the hot spots. Immediately start pounding fish. It's just one after, one after the other. Nice 18, 20 inch rookies, you know, in between 14s, 15s, really healthy fish. And as I said to you in the, the email, we're all catch and release. So we release everything unless something's mortally wounded. Uh, that day, that night, the first night we got there, nothing, we didn't mortally wound anything. So we went back into camp. Uh, we have these, you know, those mountain house MREs.

• 9:43Speaker 06

  We got those, not cooking, but we boil in the water and let them sit in the bag and get them all ready to go.

• 9:53Speaker 06

  Go off into the woods, get a little bit of a, get a little bit of firewood going. And then, you know, sit down, eat our, eat our food. And I always do a, a big loud big foot call. And smack a tree, just one time, get a log, smack a tree. I've always done it. It was always a joke. I never did it for any other reason than to, to actually. Screw with other campers, you know, in, in less, less. Backwoods areas, you know, some places like Sarnac Lake around fish ponds or any of that Paul Smith. There's. People that they swear to God Bigfoot's there, but.

• 10:33Speaker 06

  You were there in probably two thousand ten to two thousand fourteen. It was probably just me screaming in the woods and smacking trees. Well, I, we just did it as a joke, you know, just a couple of guys out in the woods, just acting like fools. So I did one of those. You know, we get a little chuckle out of it and. It's kind of, it's just time to go to bed. So we hit the sack. I'd say, uh. Somewhere probably around one or two, maybe. Big tree comes down, just a. A large tree. And it wasn't very far from camp and just out of nowhere, you know, boom. Comes down. Chicks the shit out of the ground. We pop up at a, at a.

• 11:18Speaker 06

  Our tents, I, I yell at Casey, I said, Casey. Hear that? Yeah. What was that? What was that? I think it was a tree bub. He's like, holy shit. What are we gonna do? I said, I don't know. It wasn't windy. There was nothing going on. It was a calm night. You know, there was no reason for that tree to fall. Not that I could, I could articulate. I thought maybe. Maybe a beaver, they're nocturnal. It was close to the edge of the pond. You know, logically, that would, that would make sense, but it was an awfully large tree. And it seemed to be a healthy, a healthy tree when I went and looked at it. I didn't see any, any beaver chewings on it or anything like that. So. I don't really know how to explain that.

• 12:03Speaker 06

  So we just go back to bed. It's no big deal. And I snore pretty loudly. So our tents are quite far apart. And uh. I'm more on that kind, kind of that peat mound where you can feel everything and anything. But uh, morning comes. And we're both awakened by uh. What sounds like something smack in a tree. And it's just rhythmically doing it. It's just every three seconds, boom. Boom. Boom. And it does it for forty five, fifty minutes straight. I mean, it's. It's from when it's dark out.

• 12:43Speaker 06

  To until sunrise, as soon as, as soon as the sun rose or it was, you know, uh. Just regular sunrise. It would stop. We'd sit there and we were looking at each other like, what the hell is that? What could it be? And then you know, we sat and we talked about it. What the hell could it be? What could it be? What could it be? Uh, I don't know. Woodpeckers? Maybe it's a woodpecker. But I've, I just, it didn't sound like that hollow log woodpecker. And it was just, it was consistent. It made no sense. It was just consistent every time. And it was.

• 13:21Speaker 06

  It was.

• 13:23Speaker 06

  I don't know. It was deliberate. You could just tell by how it was happening. It was just deliberate. It was forced. It wanted, it wanted you to know. That it was being done. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but it wanted you to know that.

• 13:37Speaker 06

  I don't know. I don't, I don't know how to explain it.

• 13:40Wes Germer?

  The noise that you guys were hearing, was it like someone hanging a tree with a bat?

• 13:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, in a way, it, you know, it sounded more like, maybe not like a slug or something, but like an aluminum bat kinda. It, it sounded, it sounded.

• 13:58Speaker 06

  Like fiber on fiber, don't get me wrong. It it sounded like wood on wood, but it sounded like. It sounded like the smaller log was the hollow log and it was hitting a solid tree.

• 14:10Speaker 06

  I don't know why I think that. It's just what pops into my mind when I hear, you know, if I revisit it in my mind, that's what it sounded like to me. Which doesn't make much sense, because something of that, that strength or that. Yeah, stature, it was swinging something like that. You'd think a hollow log would would snap against a tree. But this just kept on echoing out, you know, and it was for, it was forty five, fifty minutes at least. Every morning, I mean, for three mornings, four mornings. So it was strange, but sun came up. It was time to do other things. So. We got back on the pond, ate the granola bars or whatever we had.

• 14:53Speaker 06

  Got back out there. It was another good day of fishing. No big deal. Um. My buddy actually caught a nice eighteen inch male brookie and it was mortally wounded. So we brought it back to camp. Ended up cutting it up, cooking it up. And then it was, it was good. It was delicious fish, but we decided to go back out after that. And on the way out, we go all the way to the other end of the pond. Now, this pond is, well, it's not a pond, it's a lake. This lake is of about two miles long and it's about a mile wide. So. From paddling to the campsite, all the way to the other end of the pond is, uh, it it it takes a while.

• 15:34Speaker 06

  And it takes a while to get back. And for whatever reason, the best fishing's at that, at that other end of the pond. So. We stay there right until dark, like right till twilight, and then you paddle back essentially in the dark. And when you get halfway down the pond, on the left side of the pond, if you're looking north. There's like a little peninsula that comes out. And on that little rock laden peninsula, there's a couple of big old growth pines and one. Leans out, maybe a forty five. Not maybe not quite a forty five, but it's a big tree. It's probably got a five to six foot diameter. And it's, it's definitely old growth. And when I'm paddling back. My buddy is more in the center of the pond.

• 16:18Speaker 06

  And his canoe is a little smaller, a little lighter. So. He was probably a good twenty, thirty feet ahead of me, but to the left.

• 16:28Speaker 06

  And as I'm paddling drifting by this thing, you know, it's dark in the woods. But there's something darker in the woods. I look over at it. I do, you know, I just catch a glimpse of it and I I can't really make heads or tail, heads or tails of it. It's just a it's kind of moving, you know, it looks like it's kind of looks like it's swaying or it's trying to get a better vantage point to see where we are or what we're doing, but it's also so dark that I just, I I truly can't tell, but it is darker

• 17:03Speaker 06

  than the woods, the surrounding area. It's darker. I mean, there's no way it wasn't something. But I didn't think much of it like I said, I thought maybe my mind was playing tricks on me. Um, maybe I thought it was a bear. I don't know.

• 17:22Wes Germer?

  And I know it's dark now, but was it like a figure looking around a tree?

• 17:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, in a way, but I mean, the, you can see what looked to be shoulders and a head, although it was blurry, but it was definitive movement like in a way that you know, go outside on a half moonlit night and have an intruder on your property trying to hide behind a tree. You're not going to be able to see exactly what it is, but you're going to, you know, you can, you can see the intent of the, the motion of the movement, you know, that ju- just the way it was moving

• 18:04Speaker 06

  was was enough to convince me that something was there. It wasn't just a trick of the eye or trick of the light. Something was there. I believe something was there. But I convinced myself that it was just a trick of my mind, you know, because of where you are or where we were. And you don't want to put yourself in that headspace right before bedtime, especially when there's, I mean, it is a, it's not heavily populated with bear in there, but there are bear in there. You know, we've seen bear in that area and there aren't a lot of people there. And that, that, that lake itself, not including through hikers, probably only sees

• 18:47Speaker 06

  maybe 20 people a year fishing, maybe. We've never, besides the ones that followed us in, I've never seen anybody fishing there. I know of a few people that do fish there, but they don't stay for the durations we used to stay or anything like that. So, I don't know, you know, we knew it wasn't a person. At any rate, I knew it wasn't a person. Casey had no idea. I didn't tell him about it, so. I just, you know, that held that one close to my chest. So we get back, we do our thing. You're ready for bed. And uh, there was a giant thumping. Like I said, we, where we slept, we slept on this big giant peat mound that's been pushed up for thousands of years.

• 19:31Speaker 06

  It's, I don't know, since the last glaciation, it's been pushing in there. So what you're sleeping on is just a, a giant mat of peat and then root balls from pine trees and spruces and things of that nature. So it's like a drum. You're like sleeping on a drum. And I just felt something. And it just get, kept getting closer and closer and closer. And I, I've, since I saw that thing, I immediately thought bear. So I yell to, to my buddy, get my headlamp on. I'm like, get up, bud, get up. Something's out here. Something's out here. He unzips his tent and he sticks his head out. He's got his headlamp on. I got my headlamp on and right beside my little bivvy tent, there's just a giant snowshoe hare. And it's,

• 20:16Speaker 06

  it's the biggest snowshoe hare I've ever seen. It's, it's a, it's a big hare. It's just huge. And at first I was like, are we so far back, this thing has no concept of human predation or or that we could potentially predate on this thing? Like it has, but it didn't seem like that. I got out when I started walking around and it started following me. And then it sat right next to my foot. And then I walked to the fire and it walked right to the fire with me. Casey got up and this thing sat like between him and I. For no real rhyme or reason. I even made a joke to Casey. I was like, you want to have rabbit for dinner tomorrow night?

• 20:59Speaker 06

  I could cock this thing out and I'm not that kind of guy. It's just a bad joke. You know, I've never killed anything in my life. Uh, I don't intentionally kill anything besides, you know, the odd fish. I don't kill stuff. So. Anyway, that was a bad joke and I think this thing just felt safe with us. You know, I've, I've every, every one of my stories that I've had that's been odd or kind of paranormal in a way. Happens around the water. It always happens around the water and I fly fish. I'm an avid fly fisherman. I've had numerous times I've had fawns just run up to me while I'm fishing and just kind of sit next to me. I got videos. I, I got a video I can send you of a fawn just next to me.

• 21:43Speaker 06

  Doesn't care. It's just sitting there. I'm telling it to go with its mother. Won't go. It's just sitting there watching me fly fish. Doesn't care. I just think this thing felt safe. Like it was getting away from something. I, I don't know. It's, it just made me think, why would that? Why would that animal put itself in the position? To potentially be killed and consumed by something that could easily do it. And it just, it doesn't make sense to me. So. We go to bed, leave the rabbit out there. Another tree came down that night and it was very close to the place where the tree came down the first night we were there.

• 22:24Speaker 06

  So at this point, they know the tree's coming down. It's kind of like old hat kind of thing. Um, whatever, whatever. Wake up, same exact thing, beaten on the tree. Boom, boom, boom. Same exact thing. Forty-five, fifty minutes. Same exact rhythm, same exact cadence. It's just boom, boom, boom. You know, it's just getting old at this point. We don't know what it is. It's, doesn't seem to be harming us in any way, shape or form. So. Go on about our day, get back on the pond, go to the other end. At the other end, facing north. On the left side facing north is a giant dome shaped mountain. I mean, that whole end of the pond itself.

• 23:08Speaker 06

  It's kind of like a, the high ground starts halfway through the lake on both sides and it's kind of like a horseshoe. But on the, the left side, more towards the middle, but that end is a giant dome shaped mountain. And I think it's around thirty two hundred feet, maybe a little less than that. But it's, it's, it's shaped like a giant dome and on the backside of that mountain, there's a cliff. That overlooks the entirety of the wilderness area. And other ponds over that way and you can get cell phones reception there. So. My buddy wanted to, to get up there, make contact with his girlfriend.

• 23:51Speaker 06

  Just let her know how everything was going and to get a bit of a weather update because the next day we were leaving.

• 23:59Speaker 06

  So, uh, he starts hiking up there and. The first three or four hundred feet of the climb is you're, you're on your hands and knees. You're. You're literally climbing on your hands and knees and clutching the roots just to. Stay glued to the side of this thing. Because it's so steep and then it tapers off and then you can gradually walk and then when you start getting into the dome portion of it, it's, it's decent walking up on top of there. But the initial ascent is, is, uh. It's kind of terrible. So he's up there doing what he's doing. I'm. Parallel, directly parallel across the lake to where he is. And, uh. You know, I said, if I see a little, little tree shake and just think it's Casey coming down.

• 24:45Speaker 06

  I yelled to him, yelled his nickname, which I'm not going to say on here and, uh.

• 24:51Speaker 06

  Something just went, just went ballistic, just went crazy. I've never heard. Screaming like this in my entire life. It was so loud and piercing and it was. Uh, it's, uh, it's hard to explain that it had like two different vocal ranges, like.

• 25:12Speaker 06

  How ear piercing it was sounded like a woman who was was just getting heinous acts committed on it. It was, it was, it was wild. I mean, it was so loud and piercing. But then there was like an undertone of a something thick. It was, it was like a resonative thickness to the sound of that scream that. And like I said, the, that whole area was surrounded by mountains. It's like a natural amphitheater and it felt like it was directed right at me. You know what I mean? Felt like it was hitting you right in the chest or you just feel it or hit. I, I don't know how to explain it, but it felt like it was hitting you. And uh.

• 25:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I didn't know what to think. And as, as this thing screaming, it's, it's running. It's running on the hill, parallel on the hill to where we have to climb up on our hands and feet. This thing is just cranking out. It's, it's going. I don't even know how to judge it. This is cruising. It's absolutely cruising. And there's, there would be no way. I don't, I don't know a human on the planet that could run that quickly, that fast. Hitting trees. I mean, you're, I'm not talking, you know, 12 inch diameter. Uh, trees or anything like that, shaking that, but you know, you know, five, six inch diameter trees that are, you know, still 15, 16 feet tall.

• 26:38Speaker 06

  They're just shaking, going crazy while this thing's running through it sideways on a hill that's over 45 degrees. It's, it, it was insane to me and I didn't know what to think. I thought Casey was getting killed. I thought he was dying. I thought he was actively dying. I didn't know if there was a predator. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know if he was going crazy. I had no idea what was going on. So I, I started paddling over there. I get over to the shoreline, which is steep. The shoreline itself is steep and I started screaming up the hill. And uh, as you know, I'm screaming up the hill for a good two, three minutes. Finally, I find a little spot to get my canoe in.

• 27:17Speaker 06

  Cause these uh, these Kevlar's and these carbon fibers, you, you gotta find the perfect spot, otherwise you can snap them and it's not just for lack of not wanting to get out and get Casey immediately. It's, it's uh, just finding a spot to get up. So I finally find a spot to get up. I started getting out of my canoe and as I'm getting out of my canoe, Casey starts coming down the hill or starts making noise. I was yelling to him. He just comes back. He, you know, a nonchalant, like nothing happened. Nothing happened. Casey and I'm like, dude, you can, you can't be doing that. You know, I'm using, using some uh, specific words. I said, you can't be doing that kind of stuff. And he's like, what do you mean? I said, you can't scream like that, man. I thought you were dying.

• 27:57Speaker 06

  He had no idea what I was talking about. He had absolutely no idea what I was talking about. I said, you couldn't hear that? He's like, no, it was on the backside of the mountain. Like I heard something, but I just thought you caught up a nice fish. I said, dude, if you were here to hear that, it would have been insane.

• 28:13Speaker 06

  And he, I don't know how he feels about it. I know he knows that I was serious, that I heard it. But he didn't get to, to witness that scream, but he, he saw some other stuff. So on the way back, uh, you know, we go into that night. And I'm pretty much done at this point mentally and physically. So the, the next day, it's time to go anyway. So uh, we start, start going to bed or getting ready to go to bed or whatever. Loading the fire up. I mean, just loading the fire up. I wanted a big fire that night. Had a big old bonfire.

• 28:51Speaker 06

  And kind of settled down into the tent and all night long, all night long, from that end of the lake. You could just, it just sounded like a group of people having a conversation that you just, you couldn't quite understand.

• 29:11Speaker 06

  It was there, you know, it was based to it. There was multiple, multiple people or things, I don't know. And you could hear something, but you just, it sounded like a language to me. But you just add a earshot, just enough so you couldn't hear it. And then every once in a while, you just hear a, just a little scream. Like a baby version of what I heard, just a, a quick. The one I heard lasted probably a good six to seven seconds. And I know people don't say that sounds like a long time. But if you hear a wild banshee scream for seven seconds straight, I mean, it's a lot longer than you think it would. So

• 29:56Speaker 06

  these little screams were just coming in little short. Like little bursts, like little second screams, like yips almost. And that's, it's just odd. It was an encounter all together. I was ready to go. I was ready to leave. So five, five thirty, five forty-five that morning, we're getting our stuff together. We're ready to go. Six mile hike out, we gotta get out of there. About halfway down the trail. The trail is, is a high, high country on both sides of it. Like there's on the left side as you're exiting, there's a little hill and on the left side of that, there's a stream. Then it drops down and you get this little wet area, a little wet hole. And the wet hole is about 20 feet long. Maybe about 12 feet wide.

• 30:42Speaker 06

  And then it goes back up another slight mountainside, we'll say, it starts going uphill pretty aggressively. And right in the middle, well, the D E C likes to line those things with, with old, uh, dead fall, they'll, they'll cut to fallen trees and they'll plank them out and they'll put them in there so people can have something to step on as they step through the mud holes. Now, when we came in there, there wasn't even a shoe print in there. Wasn't a boot print, wasn't a single, a single thing in that mud hole. The only boot prints that were in that mud hole when we got there were ours coming in. When we were coming out, it says something, it's as if something had walked off that hill, directly stepped in the middle of it, and then just walked right up the other hill.

• 31:28Speaker 06

  And you're, I don't know what the span would be, but you're talking one hell of a span. And it was, uh, it was just one singular footprint. And I've, I sent you the footprint. I don't know if you saw it, but. And I don't know how to, I would say my best recollection was it was probably around, it wasn't outside the realm of human possibility beside, I would say the, the width of the foot. But it was probably 12 to 13 inches if, if, if, uh, I'm right in remembering. But the width seemed off to me and then I kind of sat there and I examined it and examined it. I took a video of it. And I got right into it. I was taking the video of it, trying to figure it out.

• 32:12Speaker 06

  I'm looking, see if it's a double step bear print. But if it, even if it were, which I just don't see how, there would be no way for that bear to only step there in that one spot and not have left any other prints beside it. In any, any way, shape or form, I just don't know how it would have accomplished that. So that was probably our best. And that's probably my best piece of evidence when it came to what happened that, that weekend, that trip.

• 32:44Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I'm looking at the picture you sent me and I'll post it underneath this episode on the website. You know, I just don't see anyone going out there and taking their shoes off and landing in mud with their, their foot, especially on the middle of nowhere. And it does look like one of their prints. It has a very human-like appearance. But kind of the dead giveaway is how wide it is. It's like a real boxy footprint.

• 33:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, I put it through some programs, trying to like detail it and look at it and stuff. And it just, you know, you can see five distinct toes, in my opinion. And another thing where you that piece of wood that's right next to the foot itself, that kind of splintered piece of wood, that's throughout the entire mud pit from where the D E C lays these things down. So if you're walking out there barefoot, you got bigger balls than I do. I'm not gonna be doing that.

• 33:41Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I hear you. What was your buddy's thoughts? I mean, what was kind of the conversation afterwards? After you guys found this print? What did he think?

• 33:50Speaker 06

  Kind of the same as mine. You know, he uh, we we tried to logically explain these things away. And his old lady is from Montana, and I believe she is of Crow descent. I want to say Crow. She's a Crow native. So, you know, we did. We talked about it because we had another experience in the same in the same wilderness area farther back. Um, that was strange that I got a picture of something. I can't find the picture, but she called it the little people. And uh, that's a place I'll never go again. I've never felt such dread in my entire life. It's just like as soon as we walk out of that swamp into that, because that's old virgin timber.

• 34:35Speaker 06

  Never been touched. It's like the Pacific Northwest. I mean, these trees are towering. There's nothing. There's no undergrowth. It's just all canopy. And as soon as you walk in there, you just feel like you're you're not allowed or you're not supposed to be there. That's another story. But um, I Casey consulted with her about it. And you know, the same thing my buddies have told me and some of my native buddies, you know, they're just spirits. Blah, blah, blah. Okay.

• 35:03Wes Germer?

  Let me ask you before you go into that. Back when you were in the boat and the thing kind of screamed at you, and it had that banshee scream, you mentioned how fast it was moving. Were you basing that on the fact that you were seeing these trees be smacked as it went by? Or did you actually see it up on the hillside?

• 35:24Speaker 06

  I never got a proper look at anything, but so that the morning we left, I said I got sick of it. The morning we left, it was still smacked in the trees. So I ran into the woods trying to find where this thing was coming from. And it was on the left side of the creek up on another little start of a hill. And you could see the tree it was hitting. It was a, it was a giant spruce tree. And it was because the tree itself, only that tree was moving. And then, and when I got there, it immediately stopped. I didn't see anything. I've never seen one. I've never seen one.

• 36:02Wes Germer?

  I hear you. Well, I wanted to ask you, in your email, you'd mentioned seeing strange lights. Was that during this trip?

• 36:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. So this area is fairly close to a military base as well. So, I mean, anyone, anybody who resides around the Adirondacks or hikes or you, you're, you're gonna hear jets, they're everywhere. You're gonna hear in sonic booms everywhere. They're annoying. You know, it's, it's not very peaceful, but it's just part of the park. It's just gonna happen. That was the night I saw the black shadow thing. It was one singular. It just came down. It like descended over almost exactly the middle of the lake. And then it kind of, it just started to dim. You know, it looked like an old,

• 36:55Speaker 06

  like an old light bulb from the 50s, that kind of glow. Kind of orangish, kinda, I don't know, like a dull sun.

• 37:05Speaker 06

  But it started to dim, started to dim, and then it would disappear. And as it would disappear, two would come out of it. They were smaller, they were brighter, and they would do their thing, zigzag a little bit around the, I mean, we're talking right over the treetops at this point. It's, it's not very far away from me and I'm, I'm absolutely petrified of aliens. I mean, anybody who knows me, that's my biggest fear. I don't have any fears other than that. That's my phobia. I'm afraid like if I got caught by a gray alien, I'd snap my own neck kind of thing. I'm not with that stuff. So I'm looking at this stuff and I actually, I have a recording of that somewhere. I just, you know, it's on an older phone. I think it's on an old S5 or something. But, uh,

• 37:50Speaker 06

  Probably five light, five of these little balls of light come out of this one main light and then just eventually kind of peter off and then it's just gone. And that was it. And that's not the first time my buddy and I have seen that. We've seen it on a different pond over a more populated area. And that, that was very strange. The strangest thing about that, the one that I just spoke about was probably five to 10 minutes after those lights, those jets were right over the pond.

• 38:21Speaker 06

  Just going all, all over the pond, middle of the night.

• 38:25Speaker 06

  And it was wildly annoying.

• 38:28Speaker 06

  So that doesn't really give you a good, warm and fuzzy feeling. When you're in the middle of nowhere, you see some lights and all of a sudden you got F 16s or whatever they are flying over your head, you know, I, I didn't like it.

• 38:40Wes Germer?

  How big was this light? And he said it was kind of an orange color?

• 38:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was like the, the main light was like an orange color. I wouldn't say it was any larger than a beach ball. And then the ones coming off it were probably

• 38:58Speaker 06

  I don't know, volleyball to softball size. It wasn't far away. It was just over the middle of the pond. I mean, it was just hovering there.

• 39:08Wes Germer?

  How many lights actually came off of the main light?

• 39:12Speaker 06

  About five, about five off the main one, but it, it's odd the way it came. So the main one came down, it started to kind of dim out and one, one would come out one side, one would come out the other side and it would get dimmer. And as those two were fluttering and flicking away, two more would come out the exact opposite side of where those ones came out. I mean, it's kind of what it looked like to me anyway. And then, uh, that, that main one itself just kind of looked like it dematerialized. And I don't know if that turned into the, the fifth one, because I believe it was five. I would, I would have to think it was five. And then they were all pretty much a uniform size and

• 39:56Speaker 06

  and, uh, light. And that kind of looked like a, just an LED light floating around.

• 40:02Wes Germer?

  And these lights that you were seeing, did they vanish before the planes actually showed up?

• 40:08Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, they were good and gone for about five, five to 10 minutes.

• 40:13Wes Germer?

  And you had mentioned that you and your buddy had actually seen the lights before. Was this similar to what you guys had seen before?

• 40:21Speaker 06

  It was similar in the way that. So the first time it happened to us, as the crow flies, we were probably on a pond that was maybe 35, 45 miles away from this pond. It, that was odd. That was like a string of lights. It not like, not like Starlink string of lights. It was like one light and then it would grow into another light and then it would grow into another light. And then it grew into like a hand shape, not, not like the shape of an actual hand, just like the, the light, the balls of light had tendrils off them and they, those tendrils would develop another ball on it and it just kind of reminded me of fingers and knuckles and

• 41:07Speaker 06

  it was strange. The, the light just kept growing, but it was staying stationary over the pond. The light was growing and undulating and it was, it was just weird and it was, I think that was 2011, 2012, maybe?

• 41:23Wes Germer?

  You know, I've seen the lights and I, I'm not sure what they are, but based on your email and based on your description, you're not seeing like a flying saucer. It's a ball of light. Well, what do you think that they are?

• 41:37Speaker 06

  I really, I truly don't know. I mean, there's so much going on on this planet. I just, it, I don't really know. It's paranormal of some sort, in my opinion. Maybe not. Maybe it's the technology. I'm not sure, but it seems awfully paranormal the way it, it seems to know like when you're watching, I mean, I guess, I guess it's no different than technology.

• 42:04Wes Germer?

  No, I know exactly what you mean. It's almost like it's watching you as much as you're watching it.

• 42:10Speaker 06

  Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

• 42:13Wes Germer?

  And the ones that I've seen, they're about the size of a softball, maybe a little bit bigger, but I've heard them as big as cars. I really don't know what, what the heck these lights are. Um, tell me about this little people incident you mentioned earlier.

• 42:32Speaker 06

  I'll say that was July of that same year and it's in the same general area. So this this hike is eleven point two miles in one way. It's one way in eleven point two and one way out eleven point two. And we go to this lake to uh to fish and that this lake is eight point three miles in. And I heard from a D E C officer, he's like, oh, man, there's four pounders everywhere back there. You know, it's four pound brook trout as far as the eye can see. I said, yeah, right. I'll believe it when I see it. So. Casey and I decided to go and uh we, I think we bought a couple of the cheapest kayaks. We'd ever got from uh from Walmart, like sundolphin kayaks.

• 43:17Speaker 06

  And they were relatively relatively light. I think they were twenty three pounds or something like that. So we dragged these things all the way back in the woods and uh fished and fished and fished and fished. And man, I've never caught so many brook trout in my entire life, but there wasn't a single fish that was over like fifteen inches. So it wasn't really worth it to us. But it's a nice area. It is a beautiful area. So we knew of this other pond that that was beyond it. And uh it ends up being eleven point something miles. And I remember reading some literature about when the uh in the fifties, the D C was going through and stocking ponds by helicopter and plane. And some of these these ponds themselves never actually died from acidification.

• 44:01Speaker 06

  So it really didn't, they didn't need to be stocked with anything. And some of those fish persisted uh regardless of the inferior genetics that the state stocked over top of them. And I had on good authority that there were still some big fish being caught on this specific pond or this lake, rather. And uh there's this dragonfly flying around and my dad died when I was a very young man. And it for some reason, the dragonfly was just it reminded me of my dad and I was like, dad's at you. And it would land on me and I'd be like, hey, man, what should we do? Should we stay here? Or should we go to this other pond and catch giant brook trout? And the thing fluttered around and it like landed on the tip of my hat and I said, good enough for me.

• 44:45Speaker 06

  So we uh pack up and we go. I I'm thinking maybe the devil sent that dragon flag.

• 44:53Speaker 06

  That was the weirdest place I've ever stayed in my entire life. I mean uncomfortably uncomfortably strange. I'll never ever go back there. We left our kayaks back there, which I I don't litter. I don't litter as as a rule, I don't litter. But my buddy and I left two giant hunks of plastic kayak back there and I don't know whatever it became of them. Hopefully the D E C got him out, but um. As you leave this first pond, you come, it's it's a decent little walk and there's a lot of mo- fresh moose sign. Stuff like that. So we come across some fresh moose tracks. And then all of a sudden, you know, something explodes in the woods and you just see a big black thing running through the woods. It's just. The back end of a moose or so what? That's what we assumed and.

• 45:39Speaker 06

  Maybe to this day it is, maybe it wasn't. I have no idea, but it was loud and it was moving trees and it was going through the woods fast. And you come up to a swamp and this is a giant swamp. You look at the swamp and you're like, that's not that big. That's that's easy to. To get through. As soon as you start getting in there, it's like a a patchwork of puzzles. It's it's like a maze because you gotta walk on these logs that the D C have laid out. It's like a. A jigsaw puzzle that you gotta walk on. And you don't really have any concept of the other side. The other side was never uh the logging companies were never able to get past this swamp. So this this whole track is all virgin timber. It's the the largest track of virgin timber left in the Adirondacks. So you don't really have any concept of how big these trees are.

• 46:24Speaker 06

  Because they just look like normal sized trees. But you're so far away, you don't really know. As soon as you get close to these trees, I mean, these things are towering. You got gigantic hemlocks. You got giant. Giant white pines that are. Five foot, six foot in diameter. You can't put your arms around them. There's absolutely no undergrowth. You can just walk wherever you want because everything is closed off from the canopy. There's no life there. As soon as you, as soon as we walked up on that bank, just got that feeling, you know, that weird, right down the back of your neck, hair prickly, just that feeling, that weird, weird feeling. We push through it, whatever, you know, we're here to fish. So we get our stuff in there.

• 47:09Speaker 06

  Get on the pond, worst fishing I've ever had in my entire life. There's clearly no trout left in that pond. So I'm kind of pissed off that I, I expended all this energy and time. I just make up camp. Now there's a lean two back there and in the, uh, the nineties, we had what we call a microburst. And it blew down a lot of these old growth trees. There's, it's like a cascading cold air mast. It's, they liken it to a tornado. It's just a wall of, of air that just blows trees down. So there's a bunch of these old trees that are still laid up and, you know, it's like an obstacle course, but a lot of them are cut. And they're table sized trees, you know, there's just chunks of, uh, stump that are just the size of tables, just laying around everywhere.

• 47:54Speaker 06

  And it's all moss is covered and it's very Pacific Northwest like I suppose in a way. That's, if you walk into there, if someone just dropped you in, told you it was a Pacific Northwest, you'd believe it. So we get ready for, for, uh, for bed. The light's just starting to wane. It's not even, it's not even dark yet. I'm just tired from all the hiking. As it gets darker, it just gets creepier and more quiet. Like the frogs that you heard before were gone. There was no birds. I mean, it was, it was a silence like you've never heard silence before. It was the, the, it was ear piercing silence. It was, it was almost infuriating.

• 48:37Speaker 06

  Or it, it, I don't know. It just got on your nerves, you know, maybe the tiniest in my ears. I don't know. Just the, the ringing was so quiet. You could just hear your own heartbeat in your ears.

• 48:49Speaker 06

  And it felt cold and it wasn't, it wasn't cold. It was early July, I think. It was either late June or early July, but it was not cold out and it wasn't, we're not in like the high peaks here in the Adirondacks. It's not crazy. We're crazy high elevation where we were. But it just felt cold, just completely felt cold. And then we're sitting around, we have a little fire and we're, we're talking and I hear some movement. So I look over there, I said, Casey, there's uh, probably some coyotes over there.

• 49:24Speaker 06

  He's like, you think so? So I don't know, let's see. So I let out a coyote, just seeing if they'd answer back. Nothing answered back, but there was a hell of a lot of movement coming out of that swamp. And it was very clear that things were flanking us. And my buddy was getting visibly upset. He's like, don't do that dude, stop, come on, stop. I said, just coyotes. What are they gonna do? They're not gonna do anything to you. And just to prove a point, I took my headlamp, put it on my head, walked off into the dark, turned my headlamp off and just kept on walking, looking for things. When I turned that headlamp off, I got about five, six steps.

• 50:05Speaker 06

  And I just, I felt like I stepped into a pale liquid nitrogen. I mean, I never got so cold. I've never been that cold in my life. It just got cold and frozen. I was just there. And it was just like something was there. It was just, there was something there and it didn't last there. You know that feeling? I don't know if you ever had that feeling of dread? Like you ever had sleep paralysis where you're laying there and something's coming, undulating and you can't do anything. That, that kind of fear. I don't know. You ever had that?

• 50:35Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I have.

• 50:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, that is that kind of fear, but you're awake and you're alive and your heart's beating. And it was, it wasn't, I ended up running out of there, obviously. Back to the uh, back to my campsite. And I just told Casey, go on to sleep. Uh, as soon as I wake up, I'm out of here. I don't care what I have. What was, if what I'm leaving, what I'm doing, I'm out of here. He's like, okay, okay. And then all night long, these weird like lucid dreams of these little things. There was no, there was no difference. I say it's a lucid dream. Almost like you were sedated and everything was just the way it was.

• 51:17Speaker 06

  But you were just sedated and there's these little short, little white grayish things just everywhere. Just everywhere. But in the dream or the lucid dream or whatever it was, when I, when I'd look at them. They'd look right back at me deeply into my eyes and then they just kind of dematerialize and it was just weird. It was just weird. And I just never felt more uncomfortable in my entire life. I mean, at to that point, uh, that's, this is one place I'll never ever go again. Couldn't pay me any amount of money, wouldn't go. Don't care. There's nothing you could do to get me there. And, uh, as we were packing up. I, I just take out my phone.

• 51:59Speaker 06

  I'm just taking pictures, you know, there's, it's still a beautiful area. It's absolutely a beautiful area. The trees are huge and it's, it's kind of hard to capture on photo out just how large these trees are. And you don't often see that around here. So I'm getting some pictures, blah, blah, blah. Getting some pictures of the old cuts and all that and on the way out and, uh, I, I thought I saw something and I didn't really know. I just flashed a picture. That we're talking an old cell phone, uh, just two thousand seventeen. So it's not, you know, not a super amazing cell phone camera sensor, but it did the trick. And, uh, fine, we get back, we get back down the trail, we get back to the truck.

• 52:43Speaker 06

  And usually our first thing to do was stop into a gas station, just get some greasy gas station pizza, because we've been living off those mountain house M R Es and maybe the odd fish or two, you just, you know, you lose like seven pounds on one of those trips. You're just tired. You need that grease to get you going. So we're eating, we're sitting there slamming this greasy piece of pizza and I'm just flicking through my phone, fucking through the pictures and all of a sudden. That's a little spot. I said, I handed my phone to my buddy. I said, what does that look like to you? He's like, I don't know, dude, but I don't like it. He ended up sending the pic, either I sent it to his, his girlfriend or he sent it to his girlfriend. I can't remember. But she said it was, uh, the little people.

• 53:25Speaker 06

  And I don't know, I've, I've never heard about the little people. Of course, I'm not from Montana. I don't know if that's more of a Western mythology that they, they ascribe to out there. But I, I don't know if the, the Mohawks do out here, the Haudenosaunee or whatever.

• 53:42Wes Germer?

  Yeah, almost every Native American tribe has kind of a lore about the little people. And I've actually had a few people on the show that have run into them. It's odd, but I've heard eyewitness testimony of seeing these things out in the woods. And the, the dream that you had, you know, if you were thinking coyotes, you'd think you would have dreamed about coyotes. But dreaming about these little people is very strange.

• 54:10Speaker 06

  There was also one part that I can't, I can't remember what it was, but Casey and I in the dream had an identical storyline in the dream and interacted in the dream. Just like it was real life. So, and we both, he knew parts of it that I knew. I knew parts of it that he knew. The only difference was I felt like we were led to believe this was a dream. And that was just what happened. We know, we knew each other's dream because we both lived in that same space. You know what I mean? It was just happening.

• 54:45Wes Germer?

  Yeah, that's really fascinating that you guys had the same dream, a little creepy too. But I mean, it's really fascinating that you guys knew each other's parts of the dream, which makes me think it probably wasn't a dream or it could have been. I know with a lot of the Native Americans, they'll describe these things as being very physical, but also being very spiritual. And the eyewitnesses I've talked to that have seen them, they kind of describe what you describe of, of these little things like dematerializing and just vanishing. It's very strange. Uh, but there is a lore with it. And if you ask most Native Americans, they'll tell you nothing good comes from these things. And to stay away from them, that they're very vicious.

• 55:30Wes Germer?

  And, uh, the, the history of the little people, the Native Americans goes back as far as Sasquatch. And you had three very strange days on this trip. Um, I know you didn't see Sasquatch, but I think if you take that out of the equation, it's like, well, what else could it be? What else could you guys have been experiencing? I ask everyone on the show, what do you think Sasquatch is? What's your take?

• 55:55Speaker 06

  I don't know. I mean, through the years, you know, looking up some of the research saying that the mitochondrial DNA is human and then the Y chromosome isn't is is a not in Gen Bank or something like that. One would think it would have to be fairly closely related to us to be able to hybridize if it was a hybrid. I just truthfully, I just think it's it's been explained to me as a spirit and you know, that's pretty much a broad term for everything. We don't understand, I suppose. Is it? It has to be somewhat physical. It's making prints. It's eating food, smacking trees. I think it's migratory

• 56:38Speaker 06

  because after this very trip that that I spoke about with the what I would assume was Bigfoot, we were on the Northville Placid Trail at the very end hiking up into it. And that's, you know, an eight mile hike to the pond. We were going in there and we were hearing screams all night there, too. And that was the same time of year. I almost think it's like a migratory thing, or maybe they're it's their breeding season and that around Dax are hard would be hard living in the winter time. But, you know, if they had that baby and carried it through winter, it would pop out on the right side if their gestation period was just a little bit shorter than our gestation period, you know, they'd

• 57:19Speaker 06

  be coming out in May or June. And that's perfect time. That would be the perfect time in the other around X. There's food everywhere. Or at least it's it's coming. But I don't know. I don't know. It seems physical and it seems to have characteristics of being paranormal as well. It's seems to be a good mixture. And I don't like I don't like what that means. I don't like the implication of of that at all.

• 57:45Wes Germer?

  What do you make of the reaction of it just banging on that tree? Or just the overall behavior? I what I kind of get from it is when you guys went over to that little island, I almost kind of think that's where they were at. And that's why you got the reaction you got. But what do you make of the behavior of what was going on there during this trip?

• 58:07Speaker 06

  I don't know, you know, I I've heard some stories where it seems like it was a lot, a lot more, uh, I don't know how to say it. It seems like it got under people's skins, uh, skin a lot more than it got under my skin. Somehow, I mean, it rattled me, don't get me, and it shook me up. But I think it was initially because I thought my buddy was getting hurt. So I think that's why I was initially not, not even scared, just more concerned. But then the aftermath of it is what, you know, made me sit and think like, whoa, what and why would it? I mean, uh, territory, yeah, territorial, for sure. That that makes sense. It could have been a territorial display of some sort.

• 58:52Speaker 06

  I would have to assume it was a female. So then I would assume maybe a smaller individual was around with mom and maybe, you know, we're taking over the mountain over there or something. And I don't, I don't know. But I would like to think that that thing could easily toss my buddy right off that hillside. No problem. I mean, there's, there's a, a 200 foot cliff not far from where he was talking on the phone. If he really wanted to run up and punt him in the back, I think it could have got it done. So it's, I don't know what it was. Maybe their, their whole, their whole persona is just a scare tactic. Maybe they just want to scare you for entertainment. I don't know.

• 59:34Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I think a lot of their behavior is meant to scare you. It's a lot of bravado. And that's my opinion, of course. But it was three very strange days, very memorable and creepy and terrifying. And I really appreciate you taking the time to come on and share it.

• 59:51Speaker 06

  I appreciate you, uh, letting me tell you.

• 59:54Wes Germer?

  Thanks again, Preston. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out SasquatchChronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.