SC EP:1127 I Have Never Minded the Loneliness

Rick writes "When I was younger I lived in Mississippi in a very little town called Poplar Creek. Its very remote and there is nothing there but open farm land. I now live in Asheville, NC I sometimes go back to MS to see family from time to time. When I do go back I always drive past where I use to live and where I first saw a creature. My family had about 80 acres of land most of it was woodland and swamp area. I never saw the creature until I was older at the age of 15. All of my life my Grandfather use to tell me and my brothers about a wild man and woman that lived in the area and was known to have been living in the area many years. I do know that land we had was very old my Grandfathers Grandparents owned the land and it was passed on over the years. If there were any activity going on over the years when I was younger I had no knowledge of any happenings. Everything changed the summer I turned 13. It was late June and summer vacation was in full effect. Living in this area everyone has a garden of some type. My family's garden was kind of big because we grew most of our food along with hunting. My Mom and Dad went out of town for a the weekend to visit some of my Dads family. During this time I staid at my Uncles house who also lived on the land we had. That Monday afternoon when my Dad came back home he took a walk in the garden and some plants were torn out of the ground and watermelons were busted open and just left in place but were eaten. Other veggies were also picked and parts were on the ground not fully eaten also. My Dad was pissed! He called me and my Cousins over to the garden and questioned us about it. We told him no it was not us and that we did not do any of this. My Grandfather saw my Dad getting on to us about this so he came over and saw everything that had happen. I will never forget my Granddaddy face as he said " It was not the kids. I know who did this". My Granddaddy told us kids to go play as he explained to my Dad about what had happen. My mom and Uncle grew up on the land so I believe they knew but refused to say anything. Come to find out years before my Granddaddy had problems with the wild man and wild woman getting into his chicken coop until it got to the point he quit raising chickens. My Mom and Dad got married when i was 4 or 5 so he missed out on that time and had no idea that even happened. After my Dad heard the story he was in shock but did not believe it until the next morning when more watermelons and other fruits were completely gone. Our two apple trees were picked bare and branches were broken along with our peach trees with peaches that were half eaten or were stepped on. My Dad noticed that our black-eyed peas were being picked and eaten as he would find half eaten hulls or just the hulls on the ground. That night my Dad called his 3 brothers and they came to our house along with my Granddaddy and uncle and they had a meeting in our Livingroom and we the kids had to go play in our rooms. Wes I'm not joking with this my Uncles were locked and loaded Mississippi rednecks were in full effect. LOL.. My Granddad and uncle ( his son) were in the loft of our barn. Two of my Dads brothers got on top of my Dads work shop and my Dad and his other brother were posted up in the field in the back of his old truck. I do not know what time it was but it was late and guns were going off. I jumped up out of bed and ran to a window to see what was going on. After a bit my Mom was pacing back and forth wondering what had happen. The family walked in and each one was shook up. I think because they saw IT.. They told me to go to bed and don't come back out. I could hear them talking and one of my Uncles saying This is not true There is no way that is real I cant believe it .. They staid the night and in the morning everyone went into the woods looking for what they may have seen the night before. around 11 am the men came back with a lot of questions on their face. None of them talked about it and I was told to not talk about this ever to no one. From then on there were no more encounters until the spring of 1993. I was riding the school bus home and was sitting at the back of the bus on the right hand side and my friend Joe was sitting across from me on the left hand side. We passed a bridge that had a small open field on the side of it. This field met the edge of the land my family owned . There it was squatted down drinking water from his hand and in the split 3 seconds Joe and I saw the creature we both turned to each other asking DID YOU SEE THAT! I said what the Hell was that and Joe straight out said Bigfoot!!! a few moments later i was off the bus and was running into tell my Mom. At this time my Dad and Grand Dad had both passed so now this news really shook up my Mom. It was not until a few months later my mother sold the land and we moved away." https://sasquatchchronicles.com/?attachment_id=243122 We will wrap up with Timothy Renner to discuss his new book, I Have Never Minded the Loneliness: Hermits and Their Stories. What compels a person to leave behind society, forsaking family, friends, and the comforts of modern life to live in solitude? The hermits of the 19th and early 20th Centuries are as fascinating as they are mysterious. These enigmatic figures often became the focus of public interest, with newspaper stories turning them into local legends, folk heroes, and symbols of a life apart. Within these pages, you'll discover the extraordinary lives of hermits who defied convention: John Stink, rumored to have died and risen again–more than once; William Woodruff, whose long vow of silence followed a broken heart; Brusher Mills, the serpent-hunter who sold his own snake-oil remedies; and Truman "Commodore" Downs, who claimed Mars as his homeland. Meet Adolphe-Julian Fouré, the reclusive priest who carved strange tales into Brittany's coastal rocks, and Alice Grace, who made her home in an old bacon box, telling fortunes. From William Pester, the desert-dweller who may have inspired Nat King Cole's Nature Boy, to the Old Leather Man, a wandering enigma clad in patchwork leather, and O. B. Joyful, the hermit some call America's first hippie–these stories, and many more, reveal the complex lives of individuals who chose to live apart from the world. Link to: I Have Never Minded the Loneliness: Hermits and Their Stories https://www.amazon.com/Have-Never-Minded-Loneliness-Hermits/dp/B0DTF66GQ7/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=yaZFF&content-id=amzn1.sym.bc3ba8d1-5076-4ab7-9ba8-a5c6211e002d&pf_rd_p=bc3ba8d1-5076-4ab7-9ba8-a5c6211e002d&pf_rd_r=133-6379577-1035359&pd_rd_wg=mrrH9&pd_rd_r=79d0228c-9c69-40c5-906d-2b3d20652fe7&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_dsk

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me. They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw bears.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting? Jesus Christ, you better... Karen, see ya! Hello? Get somebody out here! What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-uh.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  This is Andrew from San Antonio, Texas, and you're listening to the best Sasquatch Chronicles podcast ever.

• 2:21Wes Germer?

  Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you. We'll be chatting with Rick. Rick is from Mississippi. Growing up on this property, his grandparents would warn him to watch out for the wild man. And Rick even recalls one night of gunfire that was directed at the creature. A few years later, Rick would see the creature for himself, and I'll kind of let him go into it. We'll also be chatting with Timothy Renner from the Strange Familiars Podcast. Tim has written many books, and his newest book out that we're going to talk about tonight is titled, "I've Never Minded

• 3:02Wes Germer?

  the Loneliness: Hermits and Their Stories." And it's available on Amazon now. I will include a link below. Tim goes into the crazy lives of these hermits, and the different stories throughout their life. One hermit by the name of John Stink, he died and he was buried. The next day, he comes stumbling into town, scaring the locals. It's kind of a cool book. I mean, if you're into history and hermits and these weird lives that they lived. Again, the book is called, "I Have Never Minded the Loneliness: Hermits and Their Stories." If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email

• 3:46Wes Germer?

  address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. One of my members, Rob H., writes, "Whatever happened to the killer Iranian drones?" That's actually a good question. Donald P. says, "Yeah, I was wondering the same. I thought we were promised an answer when the new administration was sworn in. Funny how things went quiet on that." Let's finally get an honest answer on what these drones were.

• 4:26Speaker 05

  And before I turn to questions, I do have news directly from the President of the United States that was just shared with me in the Oval Office, from President Trump directly, an update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons. Many of these drones were also hobbyists, recreational, and private individuals that enjoy flying drones. In meantime, in the, in time, it got worse due to curiosity. This was not the enemy. A, a statement from the President of the United States to start this briefing with some news.

• 5:13Wes Germer?

  Anyone else not buying that? Have I become jaded? You know, I watched a time lapse video of this guy. He had set up this camera on his property in New Jersey, and I've never seen that many drones or that many things in the sky in, in my life. I mean, it was crazy to say that, oh, it was no big deal and we knew what they were. I mean, I don't know, maybe I've just become jaded. I feel like the last administration's answer, I kind of looked at it like, you guys are dumb. With this answer, I kind of feel like, maybe she thinks we're dumb. Hopefully we'll get an answer. I doubt it at this point.

• 5:54Wes Germer?

  There's your non-answer, Rob and Donald, about the drones. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome, uh, Rick to the show. Uh, Rick, thanks for coming on.

• 6:06Speaker 06

  Hey, thanks for inviting me and letting me talk about this.

• 6:09Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I'm excited to hear about this property you grew up on out there in Mississippi. Um, how many years back are we going when all of this kind of started?

• 6:20Speaker 06

  I'm going back since I was a teenager. I am forty six now, so and it's over twenty seven years. So it's I was a when it first started, I was around about twelve or thirteen. The land itself is a very old land. It was passed by my to my from my grandfather to my mother. And it was his parents and his grandparents before that. So I don't know how far the land goes back, but it's it's been the family for a very long time. And so growing up as a kid,

• 7:04Speaker 06

  we were all always told if we're going into the woods, always carry a weapon with us or some type of protection. We were never allowed to camp down in the woods by ourselves. If we did, you know, it would have to be me and my brothers to go with. And but we were always told the reason why, because there is a wild woman or a wild man living on the property or around the area of where I grew up. And so that's how it really pretty much started in my head that, you know, there's always been something down there or something around the area.

• 7:48Wes Germer?

  Let me ask you, Rick. I mean, when they would tell you, you know, be careful of the wild man in the woods, what did that mean to you as like a little kid?

• 7:58Speaker 06

  Well, just someone that, you know, just kind of lived out into the woods that really didn't come out to see anybody to, you know, be a part of society, I would say. But later on, I found out, you know, what that kind of meant when I heard other words, because they used to say, a booger bear or the booger will get you if you go down there by yourself. And it finally just kind of related when I started looking stuff up and understanding what it is. They were talking about a Bigfoot. And I've

• 8:39Speaker 06

  I, you know, it was just, you know, just something I thought they were just kinda telling us to so we would stay out of the woods so we wouldn't get in trouble or get hurt. And, and until it totally changed when I turned like around twelve or thirteen. When the uh, uh, stuff started showing up and started happening around my area. At one point, we were hearing like different things at night. Um, this sounded like something was going through like uh, the trash or you know, just kinda moving stuff around. So we just thought it was like raccoons or possums or something like that.

• 9:20Speaker 06

  But uh, one weekend, my mother and my stepdad, they went out of town to go visit some relatives. And I stayed at my uncle's house at the time when he was living there on the property. And uh, they came back and my stepdad, you know, started walking through the gardens that we had. Uh, we had a huge garden because of uh, we had to, we hunt for most of our food and grew most of our food during this time. And he noticed that there was plants like stepped on. And they were torn out of ground and there was fruit and vegetables half eaten on the ground.

• 10:02Speaker 06

  And uh, the biggest thing was our watermelons that we had. They were busted open. Half eaten, just torn into, just ripped apart. And uh, so he's like, he was mad. He was pissed. And uh, he called me and my cousins. You know, over there is like, hey, were you in here busting up the stuff, you know, just having a good time and I'm like, no, you know, you know, we wouldn't do this, you know, uh, especially not half eaten watermelons and. And uh fruit and stuff like and so my grandfather, you know, he got hurt, he got word that uh you know, my dad notices, so he came out to look at it.

• 10:46Speaker 06

  He's like, yeah, I don't think the kids did this, you know, I think I know who did this. And he started trying to explain to my stepdad about, you know, what was going on and he's like, yeah, y'all go away, you know, y'all go play, let let me and your stepdad talk. And uh my grandfather is telling him that, you know, at one point, he used to have chickens on the property and he had to quit raising chickens because the chicken coops were getting into uh dead chickens. He were missing chickens and it got to the point where he just had to quit raising chickens because he was spending more money to buying chickens. Trying to raise it and there the coops are getting broken into.

• 11:32Speaker 06

  So he kind of figured that it was what they called at the time, the wild man or wild woman or the booker or but they they didn't straight out say Bigfoot or Sasquatch or anything like that. It was just kind of, I would say, local terms of what they would call them. So uh my stepdad, he was like, okay, you know, this is just, you know, talk, you know, I I he I don't think he really believed it at first. And my mother didn't say anything because she grew up on the land too. She didn't really say anything because she hasn't really seen anything and so did my uncle. But that n- next day, I I believe it was the next day or the day after, whatever.

• 12:17Speaker 06

  Um, he goes back out into the yard and he sees that like our peach trees and our apple trees were branches were broken. And especially the peaches, they were stepped on, some were eating uh eaten. And he also noticed like inside, we also grew black eyed peas. And he noticed that some of the peas were picked and the plants were stomped on and the hulls were on the ground. So it looked like someone was eating them, nobody was breaking into or getting into the garden and picking the the crop at night. It is the people or something was eating them.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  So uh he got, he got kinda wise with it and he called his, uh they called three of his brothers. And they came in and uh they brought in guns and and uh they were ready. I mean, seriously, it was. It was like a redneck's ring for them. To uh hunt something like this and um so what my grandfather and my uncle. Uh his son, uh they got into the loft of the barn. And uh two of my brothers got on, or two of my uh uncles, which is my stepdad's brothers. Got on top of the like woodshed that he had where he where he uh he worked on wood projects and stuff.

• 13:43Speaker 06

  And then the other brother and my stepdad got into an old truck and they went out into the field area so they can. Have a better like look upon the garden a little bit better. Um so we were told to stay in the house, don't come out at all, no matter what you hear. And uh so went to bed and I have no idea what time it was um. But my mother was up and down throughout the night and you know, she was just. She was worried. She she knew something was gonna probably happen, but she was just trying to keep us kids calm. And all of a sudden, this gun started going off. Boom, boom, boom, boom, just. It it it was loud. So I got out, ran out of my room.

• 14:29Speaker 06

  Looked out the window, see what I could see. My mom was telling us, go back to bed, go back to bed, go back to bed, don't. You know, uh you know, something's going on, just go back to bed, everybody's safe. And I'd say about an hour later, uh they come in, they all come in. And they had this look on their faces like.

• 14:51Speaker 06

  It's just like, what the hell did I just see? They, I mean, one of them was actually scared. He, he didn't, I remember him saying, I just, I just don't believe what I just saw, you know, I, I go to church and I, and just stuff like that, that had to be a demon or a devil or, and they're like, no, we saw what we saw. And, uh, they, I mean, they just, there's like, go to bed, don't, you know, get out, don't come back out. And they were like, having a meeting in the living room with they saw. And I can hear them talking and they were still going back and forth, kind of arguing with each other, but like, hey, we, we know what we saw, you know, and, uh,

• 15:33Speaker 06

  so the next morning, they, they stayed the night there. We had some breakfast the next morning. And my stepdad, um, called me over, he said, hey, we're going down into the woods, you know, me and your uncles. And, uh, we're gonna look for this, we're gonna look around, and I do not want you to tell anybody that this has happened or what's going on, don't talk about it at all. And I was like, alright, you know, so they go down into the woods and they're in the woods, quite a few hours and they come back. And they're still, they gotta, you know, they just would not talk to each other, that it was just, the air was stale, it was quiet.

• 16:16Speaker 06

  And so they packed up and we didn't really have any other encounters after that. If there was, I didn't know about it. So, what, later on in years, I, I had to be about fifteen. Uh, between the, this, when this happened until I was fifteen, my grandfather passed away, my stepdad passed away. And my uncle and his family moved off the property. Now, I don't know if they moved off the property. To have a better opportunity somewhere else, or they were being harassed by the Sasquatch? I don't know. You know, I really don't, and nobody ever told me why they moved.

• 16:59Speaker 06

  So my mom was stuck with this property all by ourselves, and so we quit growing the crops. And we're just kinda just hanging out, and she was trying to figure out what to do. Uh, so it was, it had to be like the spring. It was like going into summer or something like that. It's getting close to the end of the school year. And we, I was riding home from school on the school bus, and I was sitting in the very back of the bus. And I had a friend that was sitting on the other side in the very back. And we're passing down the road close to the property where we have. And I was crossing over some bridges, and there was this open field that had a little bit of water, you know, close to the bridge and close to the road.

• 17:45Speaker 06

  And for a few seconds, we looked over, and there was this creature, just, it was at the edge of the bank. And it looked like it was scooping water, like drinking water from the, from his hand. And then with the three to five seconds, we looked at it and saw it. The school bus had kept on going, and I was like, oh my gosh, what was that? My friend next to me, he automatically said, that was a Bigfoot. I was like, no way. I was like, I, I was like, I think this is what, they could be the same, I don't know if it was part of the same family or the same,

• 18:26Speaker 06

  same ones, but as soon as I got off the bus, I ran into the house and my mom was home, and I told her about it. And she kinda freaked out a little bit. And it was, uh, just a couple of months later, uh, she put the land up for sale, and we moved away. And, uh, and that was my only encounter of actually seeing it myself.

• 18:50Wes Germer?

  Yeah, makes me think that the gunfire really didn't scare them off. How far away from your home did you see this creature? And what kind of stood out to you when you were looking at it?

• 19:03Speaker 06

  It was, the property is just right around the corner. So it was less than a mile, less than a mile from when I saw it to when I got off the school bus.

• 19:16Speaker 06

  What really stood out was the color and how it was broad. It was really, as it was sitting down, like it was squatted down, it was, it was really broad. I don't know how far hard its shoulders were, but if it stood up, I'm sure it would be at least six to seven foot tall, maybe even taller. But I remember the color of it the most. I didn't get to see any facial features to it, but it was just so fast when I saw it, but I do remember the coloring. It was kind of like an alberian brownish, I would say, but it looked matted.

• 20:00Speaker 06

  It didn't look very well kept.

• 20:04Speaker 06

  But the color of it, it's just, that's what really stood out the most and how like broad it was across as it was like dipping its hand down. We did see the hand move from the water going up to its mouth. But that's it. That's, we didn't see it stand up. We didn't see anything else like that.

• 20:26Wes Germer?

  I would imagine, you know, your mom being a single mom, already has enough on her plate, but now she has this huge piece of property. So I kind of get why she would eventually sell it. But do you think you getting off the school bus and telling her what you and your friend had seen was kind of the final nail in the coffin as far as her selling that property?

• 20:50Speaker 06

  Yes, I, I, I really do think, um, I haven't talked to her about it ever since. Um, I was actually thinking about asking her more questions about it. If she had encounters, uh, growing up as a kid. Um, but as far as I know, she may have because of the chicken coops. But I think there was more, more stuff going on that I knew about. And I think she just got fed up with it and I think she was really scared because, um, we didn't really have enough protection from it. If anything really did happen, I think that's why she moved, why she sold the place.

• 21:32Wes Germer?

  The night that all the gunfire took place, um, did you ever talk to your family members even later in life about what had actually happened that night?

• 21:44Speaker 06

  I tried to talk to my granddad about it and he kept on just telling me, he said, you know, you're gonna be by yourself, you go down in the woods. Cause at the time is later on, uh, my brothers were, they were going off to college. My oldest brother, uh, was, I, I believe he was in his, I, I believe he already graduated and was off to college. Now my middle brother, he was about to go to college and he's like, you know, he's like, Rick, just if you go down there, take your guns with you, you know, I prefer you not to go down there without anybody. But he didn't really go into details. He was, he was a very quiet man and, but, uh, he just kept warning me.

• 22:29Speaker 06

  He's like, if you go down there, just make sure you take your guns with you. Um, just let your mom know you're going down into the woods or let somebody else know. But he was very cautious about me going down there by myself. But I think he knew more than he let on. It's just during that time, uh, he just didn't really talk about that kind of stuff. I was, I was told like over and over again, several times, don't talk about this night. Don't talk about what happened, you know, don't talk about the, and you know, the stuff that's been happening around on the property.

• 23:04Wes Germer?

  You know, the, the night of the gunfire, when everyone came in and you're kind of listening to the whole conversation, did, did you get the impression, I mean, I'm sure you're getting bits and pieces of it. Did you get the impression that they actually shot one?

• 23:21Speaker 06

  I think they did. I think they may have injured it or may have hit it a few times. There's no way that they did not hit it. I mean, these guys are hunters. They, they've been in the woods most of their lives, you know, if they did not hit it, I would be really surprised. And I think they traced it. I, I, you know, like tracked it down in the path that it went, you know, from our fields into the woods behind their house. I think they saw more later on the next day and they just would not talk about it at all. But that night

• 24:03Speaker 06

  when they came in, you could tell they saw something that was just unbelievable that you couldn't even imagine to see what it was or to understand or grasp the concept, you know, especially if you didn't believe in that kind of stuff. It was, I'm sure it was just, um, you know, a mind blown for them.

• 24:25Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I would really love to know the full details of what happened that night. I'm, as I'm sure you would. Um, I know that you guys don't own the property anymore, but kind of later in life, have you gone back?

• 24:39Speaker 06

  I have. Um, we still have some family, uh, down in Mississippi. So, uh, we always kind of drive around, uh, in front of the house. It's changed a lot. And it's actually, the property is sold two or three times since, uh, we sold it. I don't know why, you know, people sold it. It's, it's a lot of farmland, but I think now it's just too much to keep up with. And, you know, the area is just, it's just good for farming and I don't understand why people are not farming on it. But, uh, I, I don't know. I, I think encounters could be still happening down there.

• 25:19Speaker 06

  But we do always drive by and I always drive by the spot that I saw the Bigfoot hoping I see something else. And but one day I would like to go back and see if I can walk the property of the person that owns it, if it's even owned anymore, to walk the property again.

• 25:38Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it would be kind of cool to go back, take a look around the property if the homeowner will allow you to, and maybe even chat with the homeowner, see if there's anything going on up until today. You know, I ask everyone on the show, what do you think Sasquatch is? What's your take? What do you think it is?

• 25:56Speaker 06

  Well, that area of Mississippi that I grew up in, there is still the presence of Native Americans there. The Choctaw is the main, I would say the main tribe. There's different ones. The Chickasaws are still there. I have read, you know, did some research on this once on too, and they actually do believe in a creature of the woods that lived there. And I think that it's an ancient, it's well, it's not legend. Well, I mean, it's a legend to

• 26:34Speaker 06

  them. But I believe it's an ancient creature that that's sacred to these Native Americans. And I, I do believe it is a like a flesh and blood creature that that does exist. I'm not sure about the paranormal side of it, you know, but I, I think with, you know, when you have backcountry swamps and, and land like that, easily to hide for long periods of time and, you know, and to come out to whenever, you know, they need to eat or breed

• 27:18Speaker 06

  or, you know, talk to other ones in the area. I, I really do think that these creatures are flesh and blood.

• 27:30Wes Germer?

  It's kind of hard to argue with you on it being physical, especially when you see it drinking water. It's an amazing account, man. These encounters really are my favorite when people and it's usually in the south, but people grow up on these properties and grandpa knows about it. Dad knows about it, but no one ever talks about it. And eventually the kids see it. And I really appreciate you coming on and sharing a moment of your life with us, Rick. Really enjoyed chatting with you, man.

• 28:00Speaker 06

  No problem. I really appreciate the opportunity for doing this. And I hope to one day actually go out and do some more and research on it and actually see what I can, you know, actually find one. You know, I don't want to actually be face to face with it, but actually want to see one a little bit more close up or even hear some more like, like howling or, you know, even, even a family of it, you know, or just see some evidence. I didn't really see any footprints or anything

• 28:41Speaker 06

  like that when I lived there. So if there was, they were probably covered up by my stepdad, you know, if they would made impressions in the ground in the gardens, stuff like that. But I would like to see some more evidence of it. But it's, it's been a, it's been something I've been wanting to talk about for a while. And I'm glad I got to share it with you here on your podcast.

• 29:07Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I'm glad that you did. Thanks again, man.

• 29:25Wes Germer?

  Next up on the show, I want to welcome Timothy Renner. He is the host of the Strange Familiars podcast. I throw it up on the blog every week. I'm a fan of the podcast. We're going to be chatting about his new book tonight, though. I Have Never Minded the Loneliness: Hermits and Their Stories. And Tim, I think you've written more books than I've read. Welcome to the show, man.

• 29:50Speaker 07

  Oh, thanks for having me. This is my first book that's sort of outside of the Unsolved Mysteries, Bigfoot Paranormal Realm. So when I reached out to you, I was like, hopefully Wes will have me on to talk about it. I think it's cool, and I think people who are into this sort of stuff will find stuff to like here. But it's like I said, it's my first book that's more like a history book or a biography kind of thing. It's not about the weird stuff. I mean, weird people, maybe, I guess, but.

• 30:18Wes Germer?

  Yeah, no doubt. You know, I like stuff like this. I like, I love history, and I love weird history. And this is something right up my alley, especially when we start getting into these hermits and their lives. But I know it's kind of self-explanatory. But for the audience, if they go to buy this book, would you kind of give an overview of it?

• 30:42Speaker 07

  Yeah. So one day, my wife, this is when I was doing the wild man research for my other books, Bigfoot in Pennsylvania and the West Coast Wild Men book. I was doing all this newspaper research on wild men. And she put a photo on my desk one day, and she's like, "He's kind of like a wild man. You'll probably like him." And it was a photo of a hermit from the early 1900s from Connecticut. And I was like, "Oh, that's neat." And it kind of got buried in paper on my desk. And months went by. Other research I was doing, stuff for the podcast, artwork I needed to scan in. And eventually, it makes its way to the top of the pile. And I happened to have time that day. And I was like, "Well, I'm gonna look up this guy," because it had his name on it. So it's Billy Woodruff from Colebrook

• 31:27Speaker 07

  River, Connecticut. And I typed it in, and the stories that came up just blew my mind immediately. He had such an interesting life. And that kicked it off for me. That was the one. And I started collecting photos of these guys. And from there, I started telling their stories on the show. And eventually, I said, "I should probably do a book about these fellows." And women, there's women in the book, too. So that's what got me going on it. So it's sort of connected to Bigfoot, but not exactly.

• 31:58Wes Germer?

  Yeah, such a cool idea for a book and I'm looking at the cover right now. That is how I would describe a hermit.

• 32:07Speaker 07

  He's, he's one of the guys I write about. His name is Brusher Mills. He was a snake catcher. You can see him holding snakes on the cover. He lived in England. He would catch adders, which are venomous snakes and he would, he actually made snake oil. He boiled down the, the fat of the snake. And he make this oil out and he said that would cure the, the venomous bite of the adder. But the interesting thing about him is, is he is not, but for years he was thought to be the guy on the cover of Led Zeppelin four. If you know that album, the guy bending over with the, holding the sticks. For years and years, they thought it was Brusher Mills. In the past, I think two or three years, they figured out who it was. It's not him. But for years, they thought it was him. But if you open that album up, if you have the LP version, the, the gatefold in the center is the hermit tarot card. So I thought it was interesting that.

• 32:53Wes Germer?

  Oh yeah. Now that you say that, I do see it. And when I was looking at the cover, I was like, I swear I've seen this guy from somewhere. Um, I'm gonna have to go look at the, uh, the Led Zeppelin cover now. Uh, the book again is called, I Have Never Minded The Loneliness: Hermits And Their Stories, and it's available on Amazon. Uh, Tim, if you would, give us a few accounts from the book from these guys' lives.

• 33:21Speaker 07

  Yeah, sure. Yeah. So my favorite is, uh, his name was John Stink. That was his second name. And he was an Osage Indian that they called him the living ghost because they, they said he was killed as many as three times and came back to life. So the interesting thing is, and, and I always like to, I, I point this out in the book. I'm taking these stories from newspapers. They were written by white people. They may not have the beliefs of the Osage down correctly. Uh, but you know, this is the research I did. And these are all the different ways they said he died.

• 34:02Speaker 07

  So in 1906, the Lawton News Republican said that he was afflicted with some sort of disease, was so badly emaciated that his friends declared that he could not live. He was pronounced dead and buried in a shallow grave outside of town. He regained consciousness the same evening and returned to town, frightening the people into a panic. Another article from 1906 from the Muskogee Daily, Phoenix and Times Democrat. Gave no name to the illness that afflicted him, but it said that he was buried for dead. Before the medicine men had completed their ceremonies, he sat up, rubbed his eyes and spoke, and they fled in terror from him. And he was obliged to crawl to the home of another settler to get food with which to nourish his body.

• 34:42Speaker 07

  The Fort Worth Record and Register in 1906 reported that it was pneumonia which made him sick. He was suffering for two weeks. He entered a comatose state. They assumed he was dead. He was interred in an old burial ground not far from Paul Huska, Oklahoma, but he awoke and returned to the settlement not long after. Again, 1907, the Coffeyville Daily Journal reported that he had been dead for three days before he returned. A tribal council was called to decide his fate, and they decided that he was dead and an evil spirit had reanimated his corpse. The Ponca City Daily Courier reported in 1908 that he apparently died three different times during the past three years. They reported on his burial in what they called a stone house,

• 35:26Speaker 07

  but it's unclear if they mean he was buried and returned each time he died. He was found drunk along the roadside many years ago, according to the Daily Artmarite in 1914. The Wichita Beacon printed in 1914 that his apparent death was a result of a savage beating at the hands of Osage law officers. The Wichita Eagle in 1919 said that it was a fever that had left him comatose. He was pronounced dead by tribal medicine men. He was buried, they said, on one of the Indian burial racks, but recovered sufficiently to disentangle himself, found himself an outcast from the tribe, shunned and hooted at.

• 36:07Speaker 07

  In 1919, the Morning Tulsa Daily Record stated, sorry, Daily World stated that he had been a chieftain and had led warriors into battle with the Creeks. He was wounded and stunned and buried, according to custom, beneath a pile of rocks, and he was judged for dead. Then, three days later, being a man of great strength, he regained consciousness, threw off the rocks and returned to the tribe. It goes on and on and on, all these different reports of how he died. None of them are really clear, but they all end with him coming back to his people. His name was Hotamoe, and they renamed him. They said, "No, John Stink." I guess they said because he smelled of the dead. So he became John Stink, and he lived as a hermit for years.

• 36:51Speaker 07

  Very, very interesting. The Osage people, this is in the early 1900s, oil is found on their land. And they, during that time, were the richest people in the world per capita. So he becomes a very rich man, even though he's a hermit. He lives outside of town. They build him a house. He won't stay in the house. He likes to live out under the weather. And he has dogs. There's a rabies outbreak in Pawhuska at one point, and this is actually printed in the newspaper. They said, "All dogs must be muzzled, except John Stink's dogs." Because he was so well-known, and his dogs were so well-behaved, that they said, "His dogs don't have to be muzzled." Well, a marshal in town one day, and I can't

• 37:34Speaker 07

  believe that he didn't do this on purpose. He was well-known. John Stink was well-known in that town, shot all of his dogs. And he said, "They looked like they were attacking him." And John Stink left Pawhuska and said, "I will never return to this town again," when that happened. He did, I think, once, but he kept that. I think, once later in life, he returned to town. But he lived outside of town from then on. He did get more dogs. And really, really interesting guy. He had a car, but he wouldn't drive it. You know, he was very wealthy, so he bought a car. And very generous man. He gave money to every church in town. He gave a major donation to the American Legion hut for the Osage people.

• 38:16Speaker 07

  And he would pay tuition for a bunch of the girls, the Osage girls, to go to private school. So he's really a generous guy, really a neat guy. And he dies, his dogs are at his casket there with them. They had a cigar. He loved to smoke cigars. They had a cigar in one hand, and they said his rosary in the other. And he's buried in the mausoleum in Pawhuska, which they said, "Only the wealthiest people get buried there." So he was a hermit, but he was a hermit by choice. He could have had a mansion if he wanted.

• 38:46Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it makes me wonder, did he die several different times? Or was it more of there's different versions on how he died and came back?

• 38:56Speaker 07

  In, in the book, I stopped just because it was going on and on and on. There's like 15 or 20 different versions of how he died. Now, it's unclear, you know, how much of this is legend? And that's part of the research with these guys is finding how much is legend? And how much is truth? And probably what ends up in the book is, you know, a little of both. Right? Because I'm looking back at these guys. Most of these fellows are, you know, they, they died by the 1920s or 1930s, even earlier, some of them. So what information you have is from the newspapers. Sometimes they print straight legend. Sometimes they print the truth, but I have luckily, my wife helps me. We can go back through the census records and we can check and, you know, we can check things other ways

• 39:41Speaker 07

  and try to find as best I can the, the true story of their lives. But the legends are so much fun, you know, so I kind of print a little bit of both. And with these guys, but as far as John Stink, that was the legend about him. I don't know if he actually did die and return, but that was, that was the legend that he had died and returned up to three different times.

• 39:59Wes Germer?

  Can you imagine being the guy that shot his dogs? It's like you just killed John Wick's dogs. Do you realize that man has died several times and has come back? And you just shot his dogs?

• 40:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, there, there was an article in the newspaper that was attributed to him that, that, I don't know if it was or not. They claimed he wrote it about that. And he said, on last Friday evening, an unlucky day, as the sun was sinking in the west, while wending my lonesome, well-defined and trodden path from the city to nature's unpretentious couch, on Bird Creek, happy and love with nature and with my splendid dumb friends frisking at my feet. And they don't name the marshal, so it's like, it says blank marshal. Tracked and weighled me just beyond Bird Creek Bridge and without warning, with premeditation and cold-blooded and unfeeling barbarism and brutal roughness, pointed and fired and continued to fire the deadly lead from repeating rifles into my frightened but loyal friends, believing I was being attacked

• 40:56Speaker 07

  as the poor unprotected creature scurried back and forth around my feet in an effort to protect me until the fiendish work was complete and my friends lay quivering in the dust, their lifeblood fast ebbing forth. Since the massacre of my faithful companions almost one week ago, I have fasted and mourned and have not visited the city since that fatal hour. I cannot bear to visit my old haunts and I have wandered the country, famished and despondent like a lost traveler in the great Sahara or an abandoned soul in hell. So, again, don't know if he really wrote that, but that was in the paper attributed to him. And a really interesting guy, too. He's a big man, he was at least six feet tall, always had a cigar and he had a knife on his hip. He built a barbed wire fence around his property.

• 41:39Speaker 07

  So a lot of the photos I have him, some of the early photos are him sitting on the streets of Pawhuska, but the later photos are just him at his barbed wire fence, standing there, very imposing, big guy with a knife on his hip. But I just love that story so much and I love that he was just a really generous guy. You know, he just, people came and they needed money for these churches and for the tuition for the girls and he just, he made do, made it happen.

• 42:04Wes Germer?

  Do you know how he actually died?

• 42:06Speaker 07

  So, yeah, later in life, he did contract pneumonia. He fell and broke his leg. And he got pneumonia after that and he just didn't recover. And he was, there was some question as to his actual age at the time he died. They think he was 75 years old, about 75 years old when he died. And they said, he left behind a pack of six dogs, four of which attended his funeral and just sat at the foot of the coffin.

• 42:36Wes Germer?

  Makes me wonder if stuff like this went on more than most people realize back then, you know, with being people thinking you're dead and they bury you and you're not really dead. I guess your doctor back then was like, you know, your doctor, your barber, your blacksmith, you're, you know, down the list as far as different roles that that person played. And it makes me wonder, you know, if people were buried thinking they were dead and they really weren't.

• 43:08Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, that was a frightening thing. Like if some of those old graves, they people would bury with bells going down to the coffin. In case I got buried alive, they could sit there and ring the bell. That's a, that's a big fear of mine, by the way. I don't know if I want to be buried when I'm going for that reason alone. I think maybe I might be cremated. So my other favorite was, and I don't have a, most of the hermits in the book, by the way, you can see photos of them. I think all but like three or four of them I write about. You actually get to see photos of them. This guy I didn't have a photo of, but he was so close to me. I said, I need to see what I can find out about this guy. It was in Gettysburg and they said he was, he had his cabin on a remote

• 43:53Speaker 07

  part of the battlefield, a place called Wolf Hill. So Gettysburg isn't far from me. And I thought, well, I'm going to go there and I'm going to see if I can find some evidence of this where he lived. I printed out maps from the 1800s and I'm looking at his cabin. He was there in the 1890s into early 1900. I'm looking for any evidence of this cabin because sometimes on those old maps, they'll label them. They'll put, you know, even people's names next to the house. They'll put a draw a box and they'll put people's name. I didn't find anything like that. But we found a few places, my friend John and I are looking at it. We found a few places that were good candidates for that, for where he could have been. So I went there and it's in a place called the Lost Avenue. It's part of the

• 44:34Speaker 07

  National Battlefield, but it's really hard to find. It's known as the most remote part of the battlefield in Gettysburg. You have to, you park and honestly, I, I don't know whether I'm trespassing where I parked or not. It doesn't look like anything official. And you walk down this unmaintained trail all the way down to a creek and then you make a hard left and you go up on top of this hill. And then you're on the battlefield again. You can tell it's got the monuments and everything. But again, it's not easy to find. I spent a whole day there with John, looking, looking, where could this guy have been? They said he was the best marksman in Pennsylvania with a bow and arrow. He would hunt for all his food with a bow and arrow. And he lived in this cabin there.

• 45:18Speaker 07

  And the one note said he had dug a well by the cabin. So I'm looking for any evidence of this. Spent all day there and we're getting ready to leave. And, you know, this is so funny. I don't know if there's, you know, was this his ghost or what? I don't know. I said out loud, I said, well, hermit, we're leaving. You got anything to show us? Show, show me now. This was in February, so there wasn't a lot of, you know, growth up. And I looked over to the right and right off the main avenue of the battlefield, I saw an indentation in the ground. I said, John, doesn't that look like it could be a foundation? And he said, it sure does. And we walked over there and it looked like, you know, the impression where a cabin was. And I said, wow, this could be it. If only there was a well here.

• 46:01Speaker 07

  And as soon as I said that, I looked over to the left and there's a well still filled with water. Hand dug well, limestone, it's still filled with water over a hundred years later. And I thought, we did it, we found it. It was such a cool thing, such a cool find, that I told my other friend, Chad. I said, Chad, I found his, his place. Well, the Gesberg hermit, he, he ended up hanging himself. He hanged himself in that cabin. He was having trouble, maybe, maybe he went a little nuts. I'm not sure. It's hard to tell. Trouble with his neighbors, he said. And he ended up hanging themselves. They found him, pretty, pretty creepy part of the story. But his cabin was sat empty for years and eventually it burned down. So the first thing Chad said is, did you look for carbon?

• 46:45Speaker 07

  Because carbon doesn't go away. You should be able to find carbon from, from the fire. I said, no, I didn't. So he said, well, we got to go back. Cause you know, he didn't, he didn't necessarily believe that I found the place. And we went back there and he dug in. And as soon as he dug into the ground, he's like, yeah, there's carbon here. This, there was a fire here. And then he said, did you find his cave? Because before he built his cabin, he lived in a cave. I said, no, I looked everywhere. I couldn't find his cave. And he said, well, let's go up here. And we went just beyond where I looked the week before. And there was a big, like, kind of boulder. And I walked around the other side of the boulder and it's not really a cave. It's kind of like a stone chamber. It's like a bunch of boulders kind of make this chamber. And we found it. And we went inside. It's big enough for a person easily in there.

• 47:29Speaker 07

  And there was stones stacked up along the cracks. You could tell where he blocked the wind. And there was a chimney at one end. The chimney was still standing. He had built to put a fire in there. It was so amazing. It was so exciting to find this stuff. I went to the Gettysburg Historical Society and they don't really care. Because it's not about the Civil War. All the history there is Civil War. And I was like, but you know, I found this thing. And they were just like, oh, that's interesting. They just like, but to me, it was such an interesting thing to find where this guy was and where he was living. And you know, not only his cabin, but his cave as well that he lived in first. It was incredible to me and just so exciting. It's like real research, you know?

• 48:09Wes Germer?

  It is like real research, man. And it's stuff that you're good at. I'm terrible at that kind of stuff, but I know that you're very good at it. And that is cool that you found his place. I wonder why the people holding the Civil War or doing the Civil War, not really museum, the park. I wonder why they weren't interested in it. Makes me wonder if he has any family or anything like that, that might be interested in his old place.

• 48:37Speaker 07

  I don't believe he did because we looked him up. He was married to a woman. The interesting thing is, probably in 70% or more of the newspaper stories about these guys, will say, oh, their heart was broken and they went off to be alone. It's not always true. That's just what kind of a trope the newspapers report. But this guy, his wife really did die. And he moved to Gettysburg. He was in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Moved to Gettysburg, moved to the battlefield and lived alone for the rest of his life. So they didn't have any kids. So he was, you know, that was the end of his family line right there. So the very first one I was talking about, William Woodruff. Like I said, he's the one that got me interested in it. And he was at a place called Colebrook River, Connecticut.

• 49:22Speaker 07

  I did go try to look for his cabin, but I did not find his. It was an incredibly hot day when I got there and. Uh, the town of Colebrook River is now under the water, but he lived on a hill outside of town called Woodruff Hill, named for his family. And I thought, well, I should be able to find this hill. It's, that's not going to be underwater. And I went to this reservoir that, uh, the town of Colebrook River is now under a reservoir. I go to this reservoir and I look around and there's hills on every side. And I just thought, plus it was, it was like a hundred and four degrees that day. So I'm not going to find this guy's, you know, I, I need a week or more of looking to probably define where this guy was. So I ended up visiting his tombstone. He, he was known for planting flowers. So he, they

• 50:05Speaker 07

  said when he was young, well, he was in his forties or so, and he was interested in a woman who was in her twenties. And he had proposed to her and she said, no. And he supposedly took a vow of silence and grew all around his cabin. Her favorite flowers were hollyhocks and he grew hollyhocks all around his cabin. And I found several newspaper stories where people would pass his cabin. His cabin was on the way between Colebrook River and Winstead, another town in Connecticut. Whenever they would pass his cabin, he would hand them hollyhocks. He would give people hollyhocks, but he never said a word. They said he wouldn't speak. He would just hand them hollyhocks. So the question is, did he really take a vow of silence or did he just not like talking to people? I don't know.

• 50:48Speaker 07

  There was a photographer came and took three or four pictures of him in the early nineteen hundreds, nineteen oh seven or so, I think. And the photographer tried to interview him and the photographer said he wouldn't talk to him. So again, did he just not like talking to people or, or what, did he really have this vow of silence? I don't know.

• 51:07Speaker 07

  Interesting thing about William Woodruff though, is in Winstead in eighteen ninety five, Winstead, Connecticut has a outbreak of wild man, wild man accounts, the Winstead Wild Man, pretty famous, uh, old account. I think we might've even talked to, talked about it on your show before.

• 51:27Speaker 07

  So the, the Winstead Wild Man, I can read a couple of little snippets from an article about him. So every day, this is from the Philadelphia Inquirer from September twenty second, eighteen ninety five. And it's just every day some new uncanny story is heard about him. Either a farmer arrives and tells of the depredations in his garden, or hen ruse, or bicyclist returning from the country jaunt has come across him. By him, they mean the wild man. Much of the information is incredible and sounds as if we were the offspring of an overwrought imaginations or desire to be mixed up in the sensation of the hour, even at the expense of truth. The storytellers would have the Winstead people believe that this unaccountable creature

• 52:11Speaker 07

  talks with them, barks at them, holds up their horses on wood roads, and milks their cows in the pasture. One of them brought in a pumpkin with the marks of long teeth in it and said the wild man had bit it. He is described as having all sorts of shapes, from a baboon to a mild lunatic with scanty clothing and disheveled hair. Altogether, the grocery stores where the farmers trade are the scenes of go-as-you-please storytelling matches. Selectman Raleigh W. Smith discovered the freak. Selectman Smith takes no part in the Cracker Barrel symposiums, however. He's inclined to be conservative and doesn't take any stock in most of the wild man talk. He's positive about what he saw and doesn't appear to want to make a sensation of it. He is one of the most respected citizens of Winstead, a prominent member of the congressional

• 52:54Speaker 07

  church, and a prohibitionist—congregational church, sorry—and a prohibitionist. He never was known to tell a story before that was not entirely plausible. Relating to his recent strange adventure, he has talked but little about town, not keeping it a secret, but merely telling what he saw in a matter-of-fact way when asked about it. So he says, "On the day of his adventure, four weeks ago Saturday, he was chasing a lost hog. The chase led him up a lonely back road between the settlements of Winchester and Colebrook, about two miles north of Winstead. This road is traveled very little, probably not more than twenty-five wagons pass over it in a year. Although it's three miles long, there are only two houses on it, and one of these is only one of these is inhabited."

• 53:36Speaker 07

  Half through this road or horse path, the selectman saw a clearing and remembered that when he was a boy, he found blackberries there. The day was very hot, the selectman felt that blackberries would taste about right. Got out and hitched his horse. And he, he goes on to say, "I stepped inside the clearing and saw at a glance that the berries were there, as I expected. But almost immediately, with my first glance at the place, I saw this strange creature. The instant I saw him, his back was toward me. He was at the other end of the clearing, forty feet away. It was only a small place, you see, which had years ago been a garden when the house stood on the site. His hand was reaching out as though he was picking berries. I think I interrupted him in a feast. He stood about five feet, ten inches, I should say, weighed perhaps a hundred and eighty pounds.

• 54:19Speaker 07

  He was naked, and his back and legs were covered with hair, apparently two or three inches long. He had very long black hair from his head also, reaching down below his shoulders. Almost the instant I saw this creature, he became aware that I was around. I think I may have stepped on a bush and alarmed him. At any rate, he turned his head just so he could see me over his shoulder, and giving out a sound such as I never heard before, gave one bound over the bushes and disappeared into the woods." So, there's this, these ongoing wild man accounts, there's some pretty neat ones, some pretty intense ones, including one where a whole carriage full of people fired, shot this thing multiple times to no effect. Some stories about people being chased out of the woods, but one of these stories, they're

• 54:59Speaker 07

  talking about seeing somebody being scared by this, you know, what they said, a wild man came out of the woods. But they described him, and they say he was wearing a hat, and, you know, ragged clothes, and he stepped out of the woods, and he was holding something in his hand. And that's obviously not a Bigfoot. I think it was, I think it was William Woodruff. I think it was that hermit, because he lived right there. I think he probably was in the woods and stepped out and scared the heck out of people, you know, because they'd heard all these wild man stories. So, even though it's not a Bigfoot book, I was able to work in a, a little bit of Bigfoot there.

• 55:31Wes Germer?

  Makes me wonder why they described him like a baboon. I mean, I'll call smug Bigfoot researchers donkeys, but I don't think they actually look like donkeys. It's kind of a weird reference.

• 55:44Speaker 07

  I'm guessing just, you know, back then, things were pretty interchangeable gorilla, baboon, monkey, you know, like people just, anything like that. I don't think they had a good idea that there was a separation between these, these things. So I think they just chose any kind of name for a monkey or an ape sometimes.

• 56:01Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it makes me wonder. The book again is called, I have never minded the loneliness, hermits and their stories. Tim, if you would, kind of give us a last one from the book.

• 56:14Speaker 07

  Oh, let's see. So the most popular guy in the book is known as the Leatherman, the old Leatherman. And he's probably the most popular hermit I have in there. And he was an itinerant hermit, meaning he didn't have one place. He roamed around. And he walked kind of a big circle through Connecticut and New York. And he was so regular that they said farmers would time their planting by when this, when the Leatherman showed up. And they called him the Leatherman because he had this big suit. I think they said it was like 50 pounds or something of leather that he sewed together himself from like the tops of old leather boots that people threw away. He made his own leather boots that had wooden soles. So it's like unflexible soles. He'd walk, I think it was like 10 or 20 miles

• 56:59Speaker 07

  a day in order to make this loop. He had to walk in this heavy outfit, winter, spring, summer, fall, no matter what the weather, he's in this leather outfit, walk it around. And he became very popular. He didn't speak much. When he did speak, he had a French accent. Most of the time, people would talk to him, he wouldn't speak back to them at all. And eventually, a newspaper prints a story about him in the 1880s.

• 57:28Speaker 07

  That said, mystery solved. And they tell the story about this guy. They said, oh, his name is Jules Bourgole. He came from France. He was engaged to the daughter of a leather merchant. And things went south. What basically he ended up losing a lot of money from the for the leather merchant through bad investments. And they said, you know, he wouldn't let him marry his daughter. And he became very sad and came to America and decided to be this itinerant hermit. And that was the story people put out about him until the 1980s. In fact, his tombstone said Jules Bourgole on it. This is entirely a fiction. This newspaper man made this story up. He knew nothing about the guy. He just made the story up entirely.

• 58:12Speaker 07

  They exhumed him. I want to say sometime in the past 10 years and they were going to do a DNA test to see if they could find anything out about this guy. He was completely, there was no part of his body left. He had completely returned to the earth. They found, I think, two coffin nails in his grave and nothing else. So they reburied him and they gave him a new tombstone. I guess they reburied the nails. There wasn't anything to bury, but they gave him a new tombstone and it does, it says the leather man now because that was, his name was not Jules Bourgole. What we do know about him is that he made this circuit. He walked this circuit. He stopped at the same houses every time. He didn't, he didn't stop at many, but there were people that gave him food and he kind of remembered that and he would stop at those houses again.

• 58:57Speaker 07

  They, he never begged. He was very kind to children. He didn't speak to them, but he was kind to them. He would like sit down and have lunch with them. And he just walked and walked and walked. Eventually he, he got a cancer on his lip. You can see photos of his lip kind of swollen up. And they said he would lay a piece of leather over his lip and to drink hot coffee and stuff. I guess it was so tender from the cancer. Eventually he dies. They find him in a cave in, in Sing Sing, New York. His suit went on display, some of his like leather mittens and I think his hat are in like various historical societies in Connecticut. But he was wearing a scapular, which is a Catholic religious thing that you wear under your clothes.

• 59:42Speaker 07

  So they know he was Catholic, they found a prayer book for him, but other than that, he's a true mystery. Nothing is known about this guy. They don't know his real name. He could have been French Canadian, he could have walked down from Canada. You know, at the time, there was no, nobody stopping that, you know, just walk across the border at will. But no one's sure and a real rarity in this day and age, a true mystery. There were a number of pictures taken of him, probably like 10 different photos. I might have that number wrong. They're very expensive when they, when you can find them. Photographers would sell them like as curiosities in the 1880s. I've run across a few of them. They're very, very expensive. I have a couple of photo postcards of them that were printed later from the original photos, those I could afford.

• 1:00:27Speaker 07

  But is a real interesting character and you can still visit, they call him Leatherman Cave. There's a couple of them throughout New York and Connecticut caves where he stayed. And they have a race, a long distance race that they call the Leatherman Race today. So he's still kind of remembered to this day. So he's probably the most popular guy in the book. I think people might have seen pictures and not even recognize, you know, not even known who it was. This guy in this big old leather, leather outfit.

• 1:00:53Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I swear I've heard of that guy, but as you were describing him, might be a different guy. I really hope people go and check out the book. I Have Never Minded The Loneliness: Hermits And Their Stories. I like weird stuff like this, you know, when it comes to people's lives, the history of people's lives. And these hermits, man, have some of the wildest stories out there. And I hope people go and check out your podcast too. Congratulations on 500 episodes. For the audience, again, Strange Familiars with Tim and his wife. A very cool show. I tune in every week and I wish you nothing but success with the book, Tim. I really enjoyed having you on.

• 1:01:39Speaker 07

  Thanks for having me, Wes. I'm real proud of it. It's got my best illustrations, along with photos of almost every hermit I talk about. There's what I consider my best illustrations I've ever done. So if you like my artwork, it's filled with artwork, it's filled with photos of hermits. I think it's a fun read, too. It's not, you can just pick out a hermit, read one chapter and put it down and you don't have to read it in order, you know, read another hermit further in the book or skip around. It's, I think it's a fun read.

• 1:02:07Wes Germer?

  Yeah, well, I've enjoyed your other books and I'm sure I'll enjoy reading this one as well. Thanks again, Tim. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.

• 1:02:49Speaker 08

  People smile and tell me I'm the lucky one And we just begun Think I'm gonna have a son

• 1:03:02Speaker 08

  He will be like she and he has free as a dove Unseized in love The sun is gonna shine above

• 1:03:14Speaker 08

  Even though we ain't got money I'm so in love with you honey And everything will bring a chain of love

• 1:03:27Speaker 08

  And in the morning when I rise Bring a tear of joy to my eyes And tell me everything's gonna be alright Seems as though a month ago I was beta high

• 1:03:47Speaker 08

  Never got high Oh, I was a sorry guy

• 1:03:54Speaker 09

  Now I smile and face the girl that shares my name. Now I'm through with the game. This boy will never be the same.

• 1:04:07Speaker 09

  And even though we ain't got money, I'm so in love with you, honey. And everything will bring a chain of love.

• 1:04:20Speaker 09

  And in the morning when I rise, Bring a tear of joy to my eye And tell me everything's gonna be alright.

• 1:04:33Speaker 10

  Pisces, Virgo, rising is a very good sign. Strong and kind. And the little boy is mine.

• 1:04:46Speaker 10

  Now I see a family where there once was none. And we've just begun. Gonna fly to the sun.

• 1:04:59Speaker 09

  And even though we ain't got money, I'm so in love with you, honey. And everything will bring a chain of love. And in the morning when I rise, Bring a tear of joy to my eye And tell me everything's gonna be alright.

• 1:05:26Speaker 08

  Love a girl who holds the world in a paper cup.

• 1:05:32Speaker 08

  Drink it up. Love her and she'll bring you luck.

• 1:05:38Speaker 10

  And if you find he helps your mind but to take her home, Don't you live alone? Or try to earn what love is all?

• 1:05:52Speaker 09

  And even though we ain't got money, I'm so in love with you, honey. And everything will bring a chain of love. And in the morning when I rise, Bring a tear of joy to my eye And tell me everything's gonna be alright.

• 1:06:20Speaker 08

  You know Jen, I sure hope everything's gonna be alright. You think it's gonna be alright?

• 1:06:25Speaker 10

  I do.

• 1:06:26Speaker 08

  So glad.

• 1:06:27Speaker 10

  I think it's gonna be good.

• 1:06:30Speaker 08

  Yeah, Josie? Woo-hoo!