How to Reach Decision-Makers When Selling to Enterprises | Erik Kostelnik - 2043

125 billion B2B emails go out every single day, and that number is exactly why decision-makers have stopped noticing any of them. This one is coming from the archives, and honestly it feels even more relevant now than when it first aired, because reaching the right person inside an enterprise has only gotten harder since. Erik Kostelnik, founder and CEO of Postal, joined me to break down why reaching enterprise buyers has gotten so much harder and exactly what sales reps need to do differently to cut through that noise. Why Decision-Makers Have Gone Numb to Outreach The real problem isn't that buyers are unreachable, it's that everyone selling to them is running the exact same automated plays, the same email sequences, the same LinkedIn messages, and the same call cadences. With roughly 125 billion B2B emails sent daily, that volume has hit a critical mass where prospects develop a visceral reaction to anything that looks like a template, so the content itself stops mattering. Even internal teams at the companies you're targeting are often running similar outreach sequences to their own prospects, which means the people you're emailing recognize the exact playbook you're using. Touches Have Doubled, and So Has the Timeline The old rule of five touches over 30 days to get a yes or no has shifted, and the better target now is closer to 10 touches spread across 60 days. That shift ties directly to buyer behavior during 2020, when prospects were slower to respond and more hesitant to commit, which stretched out both the number of attempts needed and the overall timeline. Reps need to stop treating the five-touch, 30-day sequence as a fixed rule and instead build in enough room for buyers who need more time and more contact before they'll engage. Personalization Beats Automation at Scale The fix is to throw out the generic, templated sequence and go back to persona-based selling, meaning reps need to understand what a specific buyer actually cares about before reaching out. Postal's own approach treats direct mail and gifting as a real part of the sequence now, not an afterthought, because a handwritten note or a physical touchpoint still converts at a noticeably higher rate than another email. The goal is to automate the offline channel the same way sales teams already automate email, so a gift, a direct mail piece, a LinkedIn touch, and a phone call all carry the same consistent message instead of feeling disconnected. What a Real Outreach Sequence Looks Like For C-level targets, a strong sequence opens with a gift email, something like offering a relevant book with a short personal note, sent as part of a tracked outreach flow. If the prospect doesn't accept that first gift, the sequence continues with a LinkedIn touch, a phone call, and a follow-up email, then repeats with a different offer, like a direct mail brochure, if the second attempt also goes unanswered. This entire offline sequence runs in parallel with manual, non-automated emails and genuine engagement with the buyer's social content, and teams that combine offline and online touches see at least double the engagement. Why the Funnel Itself Needs to Flex Right Now Break the funnel into three parts, top, middle, and bottom, and diagnose which part is actually slowing deals down before trying to fix the whole process at once. At the top of the funnel, differentiation is what speeds things up, since standing out from competitors running the same automated plays is what gets a reply in the first place. In the middle of the funnel, flexibility matters most, which is why Postal leans into free trials even though a 12-month agreement is the ideal outcome, because buyers need an easier way to say yes during an uncertain stretch. "If you're not getting the right results, try something different." — Erik Kostelnik Resources Connect with Erik on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikkostelnik/. Learn more about Postal https://www.postal.com/, the gifting and offline engagement platform. Sponsorship Offers This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot. With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales https://www.hubspot.com/products/sales. This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation. Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/UCMfjZbX. Credits As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey http://thesalesevangelist.com/survey. https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/lc5yAa8P We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sales-evangelist/id788738885, Google Podcast https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3RoZXNhbGVzZXZhbmdlbGlzdC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5kaXI3Pj2AhVKcjABHW5PDVwQ9sEGegQIARAC, Stitcher https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-sales-evangelist-sales-trainingspeakingbusiness-marketingdonald, or Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1NjzsFjQwVrgboUfDvbzd5?si=LdQOJDc1T-WBPMxr1h3RsA. Audio provided by Free SFX, https://freesfx.co.uk/ Soundstripe https://soundstripe.com/, and Bensound http://www.bensound.com/. 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• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:53Speaker 00

  Reaching executive buyers tend to be a little bit challenging these days, but how do you do so effectively? Today, our guest Eric is going to tell us how we can get in touch with enterprise-level decision makers in some of the largest organizations. Check it out.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Hey, hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to another great episode of the Sales Evangelist Podcast. I'm your host, Donald C. Kelly, the Sales Evangelist. And I'm so excited for another great episode. I'm so excited to be here with you today. On today's episode, we're going into the archives and we're pulling out an episode that I feel is even more relevant now than it was way back then, because it's harder to get in touch with our prospects. What are some things that you can do? And some of the tips that our friend Eric is going to share with us today can really help you as you're going in after enterprise-level deals. Now, if this is your first time listening to our podcast, please subscribe and we'll notify you every time we drop a new piece of content. If you've been listening for a while, thank you so much. It means a lot to us. Please, please, please leave a rating or review and share it with somebody else who could benefit from it. So let's dive into this episode, see some of the things that Eric's sharing and see how this can help you out.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  Welcome to the show, Eric.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Hey, thanks, Donald. How's it going?

• 3:08Speaker 00

  Oh, man, I can't complain. Another day in paradise. And from what I can take it, you're in paradise as well. You're in California.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we moved down to San Luis Obispo. My family and I about two years ago and decided to set up shop for postal down here. So excited to be in the central coast and start a business here.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Fair enough, man. Well, congratulations on that. Tell us a little bit more about the business and what you do.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Postal is a sales and marketing engagement platform that generates leads, increases sales and improves customer retention by optimizing offline engagement and interactions. So essentially, we're trying to build the next HubSpot for the offline.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Smart. I love that. People, when you said HubSpot, all of a sudden everyone is like, yes, I get it now. I'm tying it together.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like the Uber of whatever. It's for us in sales and marketing automation. We have to make sure that we're tying ourselves to the resources out there that people are familiar with. But I mean, the reality is that HubSpot and Marketo and Aliqua did such an amazing job with developing digital engagement platforms for marketing and sales. And we believe that the offline engagement needs a similar attention. And we've started seeing some incredible results for our customers. So it's exciting stuff.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  Awesome, man. Well, this is why I'm excited to chat with you today, because I feel that you bring a unique spin on things, especially considering the fact that we're going to be selling to, these are sales reps who are listening, who are trying to sell to decision makers and selling to decision makers in enterprise organization is not always easy. And I want to pick your brains on that. Why don't we go ahead and get started with what are some of the difficulties you're seeing right now with actually, it doesn't matter if you're selling enterprise or anything, but trying to get a hold of a decision maker in the first place? What are some of the obstacles you're seeing that sales reps are coming upon?

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, just to give you some background, I've been selling for 20 years. I've been in an individual contributor role or sales leadership or an entrepreneur position over the last 20 years. And I don't think the challenges have changed very much. It's just gotten a lot noisier, unfortunately. Everybody's got the memo of sales automation and marketing automation, right? So all of the emails and sequences of phone calls and text messages and LinkedIn messages, I can't tell you how much I get of the same stuff. And it seems like everybody's read the Aaron Ross books and listened to all of the Gary Vee stuff. I mean, it's like the message and the methodology and the technologies are out there. And I think it's starting to hit critical mass, which means that it's much more difficult

• 5:33Speaker 01

  to grab the attention of someone to sell something to them, given the fact that they're getting the same message from potentially five other vendors.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  You know, the interesting thing with that, too, you said that I was having a conversation with a friend earlier and we're talking about how you find the same exact thing, because say I'm reaching out to that same enterprise, let's say a marketing director.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  That marketing director is creating the same or running the same exact place for their internal sales team. So it's like, it's like there comes a time when it's like, you know, it just null, it's like null and void. And

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really, it's really gotten to a place to where it's become, there's a numbness that happens within, you know, when you receive these things, essentially because they're so cookie cutter, you have a visceral reaction to them. You're just like, dude, this is, I can't look at any of these anymore. So the real question becomes like, you know, so there's 125 billion B2B emails that are sent on a daily basis.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Repeat that one more time for the people.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  125 billion, billion with a B, on a daily basis. Okay, so you look at all the HubSpot data, you look at all the Salesforce data, marketing data, Marketo data, the amount of information that is being sent through that channel is at its critical mass and people have just gotten numb to it. So you have to understand, how do you go back and create pattern interrupt? Like it really becomes a situation where you have to be different. And what do you do that's different? Because you can't meet at conferences now, because you can't, you know, show up at someone's doorstep and shake their hand. I mean, it's become very difficult to differentiate yourself. And I was always like really stoked when I could like meet someone in person,

• 7:13Speaker 01

  because my close rates were so much higher when I could have a conversation with them, have beer, whatever. But now it's even more challenging when it comes to creating those connections and like trying to figure out actually how to cut through the noise.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  So what's the first step that we're going to do to fix this? What are some recommendations? Maybe you can give us a few and then we can just break them down individually.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So I think number one, you know, I'm sure you're a student of this and, you know, we always talked about like the five touches, where you gotta have five touches to somebody and then that'll create either a yes or a no. And you're really just driving for that yes or no. And usually those five, those five touches come over like a 30-day period. Now you can like standardize that workflow in Outreach or SalesLoft or HubSpot. But really, it's like, what should those, what should that sequence be? And I'd actually like to go as far as say, it's probably not five anymore. It's probably more like 10.

• 8:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  And that time now is probably not going to be 30 days. It's probably going to be 60 days. So I actually think the number of touches, and we're starting to see this too in our own business, the number of touches that it takes for somebody to either give us a yes or a no has increased. And the time that it takes has increased. And that's due to the amount of volume that people are getting and the sign of the times. I'm talking about now too, like June 2020. Super hard to get a hold of people and everybody's kicking tires, right? They're just like, whatever.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  So Selling shoes, since people are kicking so many tires.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Shoe business is good right now. Shoe business is booming. So, yeah, but, so I think that from a standard, from a standardization, you know, you have to go back to what is, what is real, and that is personalization.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  So people are sick and tired of getting these formatted emails. I think you need to throw that book out of your own sequences and actually figure out, how do you go back to persona-based selling? How do you understand your prospects? How do you understand what they care about, especially care about now? And how can you actually be different than the other providers that are out there calling on them? And for us, you know, obviously it's our product, but we're a user of our product. We believe that direct mail and gifting needs to be a part of this sequence now. And it's like, I used to just like write a direct mail, write a handwritten note and send it off. And like, that still has a lot of, a lot of conversion, like higher conversion events.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  But how do you start actually automating those systems, much like you do on the online side of things? So you standardize your outreach on the direct mail piece and then sequence your outreaches through your LinkedIn touches and messages and your, you know, your overall email and your phone call pitches. So they're all saying the same message and driving people to understand why they should be talking to you and why they should be talking to you now. And I think that through, through, you know, multi-touch points in the offline, multi-touch points on the online and on social, you're going to get a better conversion rate and you're going to have more effective effectiveness when it comes to that. And our platform obviously is specifically focused on helping you scale your offline communications.

• 10:24Speaker 00

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• 11:28Speaker 00

  So maybe we can run a play for me. Give me an example of something that you guys do. You're trying to reach, get ahold of the VP of Sales at XYZ Company.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  What do we do?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  So really, for all your audience out there, it's going to matter how big your deals are. Okay, so the deal size that I'm talking about, generally if you have SDRs or you're prospecting out there, generally your deal size is above like 5K, right? So if your deal size is above 5K, obviously a lot of folks are in that position. If your deal size is over 5K, you're going to have the opportunity to spend generally between like $500 and $1,000 cost per lead.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Your cost per opportunity gets to be around usually what the cost of the product is for year one is what we see a lot. People don't use that metric a lot. I really think people should be doing cost per opportunity. But you have to figure out, okay, at what level do I want to engage? And if you're engaging at lower than C, so if you have your CMO and your CRO, which I'm just telling you what we're doing, CMO, CRO, and then you have their sales development manager and your sales managers or directors, and then you have your lead gen and demand gen folks. So you're going to have a different price point and a different playbook on your C levels than you do. And this, people like put everybody in the same bucket. You have a different playbook on those levels of personas.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  And so for us on the C level, our account executives, so basically what we do is we go buy a list, right? So get a buy list, get that into our system, and then we have personalized sequences that starts with the direct mail piece. Then it goes, and actually, sorry, it starts with a gift email for, on the, on the C levels. So starts with immediate gift email, like, hey, I read this book. You know, this is, and we use Manny and Max's from Outreach's Sales Engagement Book as the intro. Just, hey, listen, like, one of our partners wrote this book. I was thinking of you. Take a look at it. Let me know if you're interested. And then we fire that off through Postal. And that's in sequence in our sales outreach.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  And then the second stage is to look at their LinkedIn, and then the second, and the third is to make a phone call. And then the fourth is actually email. And then we repeat that sequence basically three times.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  So you don't send something else again, do you?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  We do if they didn't accept the first one.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Got you.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  So we can see if they accepted that gift, and we'll get a notification like, hey, they accepted the gift. And then we can reach back out to them with a message saying, hey. But if they don't, if they don't receive that gift, then we'll send another gift email out, but we'll do something different. And then the third is we'll send a direct mail piece, like our brochure, out to them as well. That's all personalized from the rep as well. So all of the offline communication then mirrors the same messaging and the same sequence that you have on your digital. Then you have your outreach touchpoints where you're looking at their profile, then you're sending a request, and then you're sending a message on LinkedIn. And there's, obviously, it's, it's going to be staggered through the 60-day sequence.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  And then you have your emails that are not automated. You have manual emails that go out that actually are viewing what those people are doing online and then sending those manually. And then also, it's the engagement with those people in their social profiles. So sharing LinkedIn content, you know, being on Twitter, being active participants in the things they care about. And we tend to see a minimum of a 2X engagement increase when you actually add those kind of social strategies and your, and your offline strategies.

• 15:05Speaker 00

  Do you guys then, well, a couple of questions I have. What do you say against somebody who might say, well, Donald, isn't that just bribery? If you're going to send them the gift, how do you handle that?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, so gifts come over in emails and they can deny the gift. It's no problem. They can, they can say, hey, you know, if you feel like it's, if it is your policy not to provide swag or beverages or, you know, books or electronics to your prospects as a part of your sales funnel, you can always do donations. So you can donate on their behalf to, you know, any cause that you have in place, like a COVID response, you know, donation is the one that we've been using. So all of those donations can be actually beneficial to move things forward as well. So it doesn't necessarily need to be a gift, and certainly it can move, if they're not comfortable with sending donations on behalf,

• 15:57Speaker 01

  you can move just directly into the, into the direct mail pieces, which will provide content and offline tactile engagement.

• 16:06Speaker 00

  This is awesome. I mean, I am loving this because I can, you've probably heard one or two of our episodes, but we've, we've adopted to some nature a direct mail. And it's the numbers that, you probably can go into some stats, but it's weird how much more effective it is. And it's something that I kind of hate to do this episode in some way because now everyone's going to know what we're doing.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  But I think sometimes people don't necessarily engage in because they're like, it's too much work. And obviously, folks-

• 16:34Speaker 01

  It is a lot of work. Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  Folks like you come into picture and make it easier, but we've definitely seen some really decent sized deals close because of the practice. But there's going to come a day, because you guys are so effective and great at freaking marketing, that people are going to start doing this. When we hit critical mass, how do we go about making sure then, just like how we have critical mass with the automation now, how can we make sure we don't get that? Is there any way to prevent that, or it's just going to happen no matter what?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Listen, if it happens and we reach critical mass and offline, I'm taking you out to dinner. We're going to, like, after this is all done, I'll be a happy man. We're, we are, you know, our focus right now is just ensuring that people understand that there is technology to solve this problem. It is a technology challenge. That if we are right, then the experience that prospects are having and customers are having are going to be a better relationship with their customers, right? So your customers are going to have more of like a feeling because these things happen offline. So it's actually going to increase your brand exposure, increase your, your brand opportunity by operating in the offline.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  So I would say that another thing is important to note is like you talked about, like, just being a good steward of the process.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  True.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  It is important for us as technologists, when we develop technology that is disruptive, that actually will help increase, you know, pipeline or, or close rates, that you do it in a way that is not spammy. And I came from, my last business was basically a tech, a technology that took emails and made, converted them into text message for recruiting, called TextRecruit. And we very easily could send, you know, 20,000 text messages off to recruit for a position. We had to be good stewards of the, of the laws and the way that we wanted people to interact with text message there. And I believe it's the same thing at Postal, to where if we're really going to promote the offline communication angle,

• 18:33Speaker 01

  you know, we have to be good stewards of ensuring design is quality, and quality is there, that speed is there, that reporting is there, and also opt out. You know, if people just don't want to receive this information, then, you know, they should, they should have the ability to opt out. So it is kind of like taking all the things we learned about this amazing digital, like, transformation of marketing and sales. And like, it's kind of old school, you know, we're looking back on like, you know, sending stuff out and care packages and those things. It used to be cool, but it got distanced because it was hard to do. Now we're making the hard things to do easier and more effective. And, and I think that as long as we're good stewards to understanding, like, what is the right communication? And what is the right stuff to send, then I think we'll be in good shape.

• 19:20Speaker 00

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• 20:05Speaker 00

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• 20:47Speaker 00

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• 21:23Speaker 00

  There's this notion again, that you go back to the customer experience as well as, I feel, especially, again, going back to lists that you mentioned at the beginning, we're listening, if you're listening to this episode right now, you understand the situation. You listen to this episode, two years from now, we were going through a crazy time called the pandemic. And I feel that the sales reps who are able to survive the pandemic, it's kind of almost like, in some way, the, I say this, I said this in the last episode, like, almost like a Darwin way of thinking, because the survival of the fittest, right? What were you able to do to battle through COVID and to be able to sell? And I think a lot of it comes back, most sales reps are abandoned and automated. And they're looking for a way to create that experience, that emotional experience with the buyer. You know what I mean?

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Yep. A hundred percent. I mean, you're a hundred percent right. The strongest will survive.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  That is the reality of the situation right now. You know, it's interesting. When I graduated college, I graduated college 2001 and the trade towers fell and we were immediately pushed into one of the darkest times of our, of our history as a country. And then, you know, in 2008 and I was, you know, I ended up being a bartender. I'm not even going into this workplace. This is, this is a nightmare. And then 2008, you know, we, you know, because of the housing crisis, I mean, we were thrust into one of the darkest times from an economic standpoint in the last 50 years. And I was selling job postings, right? Selling job postings in a recession, like not ideal, not ideal. So a pandemic and selling marketing and sales technology in a pandemic, this is easy

• 22:54Speaker 01

  comparative to what I've experienced in the past. And I think that the folks, as long as we do it right, and you know, we educate the market and the folks that are, you know, that are using our software to make sure that we're empowering them to be better. I think we're going to be in a good place, but I agree with you. I don't think everybody's going to get through this. And I know technology companies are not going to get through this either. Not all of them. So you got to make sure that you're fiscally responsible, that you're, that you're providing value for your customers and that you're, that you're operating in a way that, you know, that is effective. And for me, that's, that's kind of what we're, what we're based on.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Are you guys hiring then?

• 23:27Speaker 01

  We are. Yeah. I mean, we're, dude, I'm always hiring. I'm always hiring great people. And it doesn't matter. Listen, it doesn't matter, you know, where you're from or what you're doing. Trust is number one. We hire people with grit and people that have something to prove or have a chip on their shoulder. And those people generally work out pretty well for us. We have a great system in place. And yeah, our positions are open online if anybody's interested.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  There you go, guys. So if you're, you're finding yourself in a challenging time, look for a great organization and check out what Postal has. I want to go back to something you mentioned, the whole idea that we're expanding from five touches to 10 touches. Some may say, yeah, it's definitely there. But the time period side is the one I'm curious about. Are you saying because it's the, not necessarily the time period, you said it could be from moving from 30 days to 60 days?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Thirty to 60.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  But what, how can you speak to a sales manager now when they're listening to this and they're like, hot crap, man? You know, their sales cycle, their pipeline is going to be jacked up. Forecasting is all crazy now. How can they accommodate towards shortening that at all possible from that?

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I, I think that, and we're just talking about, yeah, for future listeners, we're just talking about kind of essentially April 2020 to what I'm thinking around like September 2020, that period of time that we're in right now, you're going to be experiencing a longer conversion sales cycle from your appointment dials to your meetings. And so, and to your opportunities. So, and then your sales cycle also is increased. So your, your actual time from contact to close is probably about, about 2X. So the real question is, is like, where can you impact those? Like, there's a couple pieces in that of the funnel that you can impact. It's like, can you impact the front of the funnel, like the top of the funnel, the mid, or the, the final

• 25:13Speaker 01

  part, the closing part of the funnel? And so I think there's different strategies you can take in each one of those. If you break down each one of those parts, your funnel down to see, hey, what is taking me the longest time? It's going to take longer to get ahold of people. We know that. So what are you doing to differentiate yourself from your competitors or your personalized information using social, using offline? Then, once you're in it, are you making it easy for them to buy? Like, ease to buy is like, it's so important right now in the middle of the funnel. And you're going to find, maybe you're getting ahold of people, like, and maybe your conversion rate at the top is like, less than 30 days and good job if that's the case. But like, you might get into the mid and be like, people are not buying because they just need to buy differently. You need to be flexible. You need to be agile in that middle. That's why we give trials. We're

• 25:57Speaker 01

  like, everybody wants to try it out. Might as well let everybody try it out. Do we want to have people try it out? No, we want everybody to have a 12-month agreement, right? Like, everybody does. But you got to make sure that you, it's a sign of the times. You got to make sure you're adjusting to that. And then you're also at the bottom of the funnel, you know, those that are, that are protecting their base, you're going to have to like, figure out, you know, once people get on board, how do you keep them on board during this time period? And so for us, you know, having sequences that don't stop at close, having sequences that continue across those next, like 12 months, is extremely important in the offline and the online world. So those are, I don't know, that's kind of like a roundabout way of answering your question, but that's what, that's what I'm seeing right now.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  You mentioned earlier that when we were talking about some of the things that we can do to stand out, you said maybe again, increasing the touchpoints. And then you also mentioned personalization. Is there anything else that you would share as we're wrapping up this episode that sales reps can do to make sure they're getting in touch with these enterprise decision makers? Any other thoughts?

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Man, I think honing your skills, like those that are in this time right now, you can kind of sit back and go, man, this sucked. This was the worst time ever, you know, and be like, nah. Or you can take the time to educate yourself. Take the time to make sure that you hone your sales skills and your, and there's a tremendous amount of education out there of what you should be doing and how to do things differently. If you're not getting the right results, try something different. So I think number one, most important thing is, is sharpen your sales sword.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  Sweet, man. Well, if folks out there listening to this want to get in touch with you or want to go postal, how do they go about doing that?

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Just come to our site, postal.io. And pretty soon, we're going to be able to take you right into the product from the actual website. But for now, if you're interested in taking a demo and then getting on a trial for free, you can go ahead and click that demo button. And then, yeah, we'll be ahold of you.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Is this something that I would be, it would be requisite that the, my sales leader engage with? Or is there any way individual contributor could engage with this?

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Man, we're, we are non-biased when it comes to who wants to use our product. If you want to use our product, we'd love to show you how it works and get you, get you successful.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Awesome, man. Well, we appreciate this, man. We appreciate you taking the time to come on our show today. Thanks again for the wisdom and for the kind words, man.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you, Donald. Appreciate it.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  My man, my man. I told you Eric's going to bring some fire today and he sure did. Listen, if you haven't done so already, please connect with Eric. Tell him you heard him here on the Sales Evangelist Podcast. I know he's going to be truly grateful for that. And I'm going to be truly grateful because it's exciting when we connect two people who are finding and success and people sharing how to find success. It just means a lot to us and I'm grateful that it's helping you. If you haven't done so already, please share the podcast and reach out to me personally on LinkedIn. Send me a LinkedIn connection message. Tell me you're listening to the podcast. I truly appreciate that and I'll respond to you. And I'd love to hear how you're applying the things from this episode into your day-to-day life. Listen, I want you to thrive. I want you to succeed. Most importantly, I want you to raise your level of thinking. I want you to go out and do big things. See you on the next one.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  The Sales Evangelist Podcast is created by the Sales Evangelist Sales Training Organization. It is produced by TSE Studios. Our podcast production manager is Nancy Paul. Our audio engineer is Jershun Obayal. Our video engineer is Dusan Kunado. Guest management is done by Jill Vito and Kristi Virtus. Our content writer is Carlisa Galbraith. Our graphic designer is Yurvish Savalia. And I'm your host and executive producer, Donald C. Kelly.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  Sales Podcast Network.