Selling a Must-Have vs. Nice-to-Have: How to Win in a Competitive Market | Mark Van Oppen - 2040

Selling a must-have product sounds easier than selling a nice-to-have. But even when your solution is critical to a customer’s business, you still have competitors fighting for the same deal. So, what makes a buyer choose you? In this episode, I talk with Mark van Oppen, CRO of SecureAuth, to talk about what it takes to sell a must-have solution in a competitive market. Selling a Must-Have vs. a Nice-to-Have Mark explains why sellers should first identify whether their solution is truly critical to their ideal customer. A product should solve a real business problem rather than forcing urgency where none exists. Finding the right Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) can determine whether a product becomes a must-have. Mark prefers selling solutions that are foundational to the customer’s business because they create stronger customer relationships. Why Buyers Ultimately Buy TrustHaving a must-have solution does not automatically mean a buyer will choose you. When multiple companies can solve the same critical problem, trust becomes a major differentiator. Sellers build trust by doing what they say they will do. Trust also comes from demonstrating expertise and understanding the customer’s specific business problem. Every interaction should reinforce the buyer’s confidence that you can solve the problem. Understand the Customer's Business, Not Just the IndustrySellers need to understand how a problem appears inside a specific customer’s business. Different companies can experience the same technical problem in very different ways. Instead of using the same presentation for every prospect, sellers should tailor their conversations to the customer. Deep research helps sellers speak directly to the customer’s situation instead of making the customer explain everything from scratch. This level of preparation can demonstrate expertise and build credibility. Use AI Without Losing the Human Side of SellingIt's possible that AI-powered sales tools would simply hide lazy sales behavior. He later became a supporter of tools such as Gong, call recording, automated notes, and follow-up summaries. These tools can help strong sellers increase their effectiveness while reducing missed details. AI should support good selling habits, not replace attention, preparation, or customer empathy. Manual note-taking still matters when automated tools are unavailable. The Three E's: Energy, Excellence, and ExperienceThe three qualities Mark considers when hiring: Energy: The enthusiasm and commitment someone brings to the work. Excellence: A demonstrated history of committing to and delivering high-quality work. Experience: Knowledge gained through time and exposure to a specific role or industry. Mark puts them in that order because he believes experience can be developed, while energy and a demonstrated commitment to excellence are harder to teach. The "Say-Do-Say" ApproachAccording to Mark, the phrase “say-do-say” describes another way of building trust. First, clearly explain what you are going to do. Then, actually do it. Finally, show the customer what you accomplished. This creates a clear connection between the customer’s expectations and the outcome you delivered. It also helps sellers reinforce their credibility throughout the sales process. Using a Mutual Action PlanMark’s team uses a Mutual Action Plan (MAP) during complex sales. The MAP includes: The customer's problem statement and pain points. A list of tasks that need to be completed. Stakeholders responsible for each task. Specific delivery dates. Progress updates as tasks are completed. A commercial review covering the business side of the deal. The goal is to create a shared plan where both the buyer and seller understand their responsibilities and can track progress together. Building Trust Through ExecutionA seller's job does not stop after making a promise. Following through on commitments gives the customer evidence that they can depend on you. Documenting agreements makes expectations clear and reduces confusion. Consistent execution becomes especially important when your product sits in the customer's critical path. Popular Quote: "The buyer ultimately buys trust from their vendor." — Mark van Oppen Resources Learn more about SecureAuth: secureauth.com http://secureauth.comReach Mark van Oppen: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:53Speaker 00

  There's a huge difference between selling a must-have product and a nice-to-have product. But let's say you're selling a must-have product. Not everybody wants it or wants it from you. How do you help your prospect to recognize that you're the best candidate? Check out this episode. You're gonna love it.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Hey, hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to another great episode of the Sales Evangelist Podcast. I'm your host, Donald C. Kelly, the Sales Evangelist. And I'm so excited for another great episode. I'm so excited to be here with you today. And on this episode, we have an amazing guest. His name is Mark Van Oppen. Mark and I got a chance to connect. He is the CRO of Secure OFF. And Mark is, he runs with a company that is a must-have for his clients. And one of the conversations we have is even if you have a must-have solution versus a nice-to-have solution, the must-have solution, you're going to have competitors. But how do you stand out? What are some of the things that you're going to do to help yourself to be, when you have those strong competition, to make sure you're the coming off as a winner and your solution? And Mark is going to break down some of those things with us today.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  If this is your first time listening to our podcast, subscribe so that we can notify you every time we drop a new piece of the episode. And if you've been listening for a while, I appreciate that. Please take this link, share it with one other person that could benefit from it. As we dive in, get a chance to hear why Mark is so passionate about selling must-have and to see the very first point that we talk about on why this one is so critical when it comes to selling a must-have solution. Promise you won't even think about what it is yet. Check it out.

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  Mark, welcome to the show.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  I'm pumped. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. And I have gone, I've done it myself where I've worked for companies that I thought was like, man, this looks really cool and looks really great. And come to find out, it was a nice-to-have product or solution that never really turned into me being successful. So this is a topic that when we first discussed, it came really close to home. But this idea of selling a must-have versus a nice-to-have and getting a better understanding of what we must do to be more effective as we're selling some of this. So I'm looking forward to get some of your insights on that. Before we dive deeper into it, why don't you take a quick second and tell us a little bit more about what you do right now?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I've spent the last 15 years or so selling Critical Path Infrastructure and then Identity Products. And what I do today is the, I function as the Chief Revenue Officer for Secure OFF. So think of that as all sales and marketing activity. I work very closely with our product team to represent what we do earnestly and honestly to our customers. And then I lead the sales and technical sales team to make sure that we're showing up on time and on target to those customers and aligning to the right business problem. So it has a good cadence of deal flow.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  Love it. So you come with some experience then on what is critical versus what's not critical?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Why is this such a big passion for you? Why is this topic one that resonates so well with what you do? Or why is it a top of your mind?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think of a relationship with a customer as a concentric circles. So the innermost circle is their direct employees, the core members of their team. And if you're selling them something incredibly critical to their job and their core function, you're in that first circle outside their core team. You are a required component of their day-to-day life. And the further you get out those concentric circles to various accessories or tools that are not in the critical path, the less aligned you are to the business outcome that makes their world function. And the most comfortable place for me to sort of earnestly and honestly embrace customer relationships has been in that closest concentric circle.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  I want to be an extension of my customer's team, selling something that is foundationally not optional. Right? That has been core infrastructure for me in the past. That is lately, the last five, five and a half years, has been identity and how that has shown up in a variety of different ways.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  So I'm excited to get to you, to get to understand, is there a way that I can help my product become a must-have versus a nice-to-have? Or is it really just if I'm selling a nice-to-have, it's just, I'm screwed. I just to go find a must-have solution?

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's a matter of perspective at some level. But also there are some intrinsic things you can't change. Right? I think there's a key element of identifying the right ideal customer profile where what you have is critical to their success. And if there is nobody that is consuming this as a critical component of their job, then I'd find a different product to sell. A lot of people have made, made their careers selling something in a way that is an accessory, that is convenient. But I've never been as comfortable selling something that is a nice-to-have. I want to sell something that foundationally makes my customers' lives easier or more secure or more reliable.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  And I want to be in that critical path because then you're on the, the sort of never replace list in that customer relationships and relationship. And that just feels good to me that I think that's where the strongest, richest customer deals come from. And I think that's an important part of it. If you're trying to do something unnatural to position a product as something urgent for your customer to buy, there may not be an ideal fit. And that's an early warning sign to me that you're doing unnatural acts to try to justify urgency to buy. If there is no urgency, if it doesn't uniquely solve a business problem for them, what are we doing here?

• 7:46Speaker 00

  We're getting self-served at that point where I'm just getting something from me, one-sided relationship, getting the money at that point and not necessarily caring about you. So let's, I love that. So let's pivot to say, I do have a solution that is, you know, it is a critical for the organization or for my clients. But still yet, having a critical solution doesn't necessarily mean the person is going to buy from you. And I think that's where our conversation come. I have a must-have, but also so does my competitor. We're in the same parallel industry. What is the first thing that I must understand in order to be effective at selling that?

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a great segue to one of my key tenants that I talk to our team about, and that's earning trust. So if you sell something that solves a discrete, non-optional problem in your customer's business, but five other people sell something that also solves that same non-optional problem, then the buyer ultimately buys trust from their vendor. Obviously, there's some influence from commercial vetting or perceived risk. But all of it comes down to is I trust you can solve this problem. And every one of my sellers, everyone on the marketing team, everybody on the product team is trying to earn trust, earn confidence, and make sure that we have deference

• 9:02Speaker 01

  to the risk that our customer is taking by putting us in the critical path for this, this non-optional business problem. So the whole way through, we are trying to earn trust. And that starts from just doing what we say we're going to do and making sure that we enumerate the steps to get a deal done. And they feel like their business problem is heard all the way through.

• 9:28Speaker 00

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• 10:31Speaker 00

  I think like, you know, I wrote it down, they buy trust. I think sometimes people feel like if I do a good job at rapport, I'm building trust.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  We understand that, that rapport building is maybe important, but I think trust, what you're getting at, the way you're alluding to it, is way deeper than that.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's right. Trust, the way I'm thinking about it, is proving expertise and credibility in the business problem and the way it surfaces to that specific customer. So let's think about it in a customer example. So in user identity, the relationship with an end customer is unique by what that business is doing, right? Kroger uses end customer identity to track your shopping habits, right? When you type in your phone number at the register and you claim that transaction under a user profile, that informs all kinds of things in their business. Everything from inventory to targeted ads, to incentivizing certain products or discountings,

• 11:34Speaker 01

  or seasonal behavior, all of that is market signal. And they pay you for that market signal by making it incentivized for you to identify each transaction with your phone number via discounts. Candy Crush monetizes your eyeballs and the amount of time you spend in this product by making sure that's super low friction, it's an addictive game, and there's those lovely banner ads that pop up in that user experience. But you wouldn't come back if it was a super high friction login experience, where it forced you to do two FA or big complicated passwords, you couldn't sign in with your Apple account or whatever it is, it would force that. Your bank, on the other hand, implies the right level of relationship with you by introducing friction, making sure that it does force complexity.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  You would not have good feelings about your bank if they'd allowed password to be your password, right? These kinds of things, it's all dependent on the user behavior and that sort of construct and that relationship that you have between vendor and end customer. So what we do when we're trying to talk to our customers about empathy for the problem statement and earn trust and confidence in how we approach it, is that we deeply understand, how do you show up to your customers? How does that expectation manifest in your infrastructure story? How does that manifest in the business problem for you? Why is it difficult? Why is it causing, why is it a status quo problem?

• 12:58Speaker 01

  And then how do we sort of lay a path down for you to achieve the right outcome using our technology and deeply empathize with the how, so that you have confidence that this will actually get executed well post-contract? I don't want to show up with a static presentation I've done for 10 other customers. I want to show up with an overview that may be in common with other customers, and then a deeply focused presentation and conversation that matters to that specific customer in that specific meeting, and that earns trust and confidence around how we look at the problem and our ability to solve it in a way that matters to my scenario, not any scenario.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, because if, I think that was very vivid, Rich, the way you you lay that out, because in my mind, if someone did do that to me, especially if you're meeting with me, that level of trust goes out the roof. But I think some people get lazy with that. Like, I think especially nowadays with the world, AI can help you to make that better, but I also feel like folks just, it's, I'm a seller, I know how to sell, so I'm just gonna go wing it, I'm gonna do, go in there and do my thing, right? And I think that's where some folks miss the boat. You're smiling on that one, you probably have one or two of those experiences, I bet.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I think I was a skeptic around some of the AI tools for a long time as a sales leader, and I had a member of my team who really evangelized using Gong and using call recording and using these automated note-taking and summary tools that help follow up with the action items. And my reaction was that that hides the lazy, the lazy rep behavior and doesn't do enough to help the good reps who are doing that anyway, because they're deeply paying attention and they're taking notes. Now, ultimately, I think that initial reaction was wrong, and I've been a proponent of adopting these technologies and adopting this kind of best practice, because it makes the really good sellers able to do that 50% more than they otherwise would.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Like, it increases their ceiling too, and it lowers the bad behavior, or reduces the amount of bad behavior happening, or lazy behavior happening, because it's so easy. So it does hide the lower performing reps a little bit, but it enables the top performers and the aggregate customer experience does increase and get to a better place. So ultimately, I've come around that these power tools are great. I just maybe am a little bit tangentially jealous, because they didn't exist early in my sales career, and I still use lots of the, the yellow notepad full of my chicken scratch, trying to remember exactly what's happening, and haven't fully transitioned to that automated set of tools.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  Okay, let me share you a real life situation. So an hour ago, before I came on this call, we usually use our link to book the meeting, right? So this prospect that we're working with shared a link, so I was like, what the heck? We booked through their link. Well, when it was said and done, I was like, dude, where's my notes? It didn't come and recap the notes, because I'm so used to my AI being in my meetings and having that note compiled. So there is something to taking those chicken scratch with what we have, so I'm going back on memory on this one.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Absolutely, absolutely. That happens in interviews, when I'm interviewing for people on the team, as well as when you're doing the deep technical discovery calls. If you don't have the automated notes, all of a sudden, the level of effort needs to go way up on the manual notes, because there are critical things that if you get wrong, are problematic down the line. So I use the transcription service quite a bit.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  I'm taking some notes here, even though we're gonna do great editing with this, but you know, there's some points here, I'm like, I want to emphasize this more, so this is great.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  This brings up the second point that I want to go into. You use a phrase that I thought was interesting, I put a note down before, it says, "Extreme insights into user behavior." So I put a note with this, "You must know and understand the business problem driving the technical gap for your clients, if you're gonna be selling this must-have." Can you go deeper on that for me and how you guys see that?

• 17:02Speaker 01

  I sell technical things, right? To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And I think that's a nuanced, well, that is a very simplistic way to look at it. And I encourage sellers to look at it in a much more nuanced way. Like I said, we solve user login and identity, and then agentic security and authority to act. We're looking at all kinds of things in our business, and that problem shows up differently, depending on who the users are in question, who the humans are and their role in how they serve those users. And it's not a one-size-fits-all solution. This is not one hammer, one nail, and you do it 50 times in a row. I wouldn't be mad at 50 deals that look and feel the same, but at the same time, earning

• 17:46Speaker 01

  trust is understanding the nuances of how this shows up for you. How does Donald experience the pain of the status quo? And how can I make sure that I focus on the traits of the problem that impact Donald? I'm not speaking to a podcast host, I'm speaking to Donald, the podcast host. And that's the point, right? And I think that's an important differentiator in how we show up to customers. If you don't have that level of empathy to a unique situation, you're trivializing their effort. And that's what I want to focus on. Like, we need to know and understand the business we're selling to and how it shows up to that client, not clients in general and broad strokes.

• 18:34Speaker 00

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• 19:18Speaker 00

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• 19:39Speaker 00

  Since 2013, we launched this podcast. The goal of the podcast was to share wealth of information, and I feel that we've successfully done so. As a natural byproduct, listeners like you would reach out and ask, could I coach them? Could I train their team? Could I come and speak in an SKO? Could I consult for them? And that is how we gain the majority of our business, and still to this day. So in 2019, one of our clients saw what we did and asked, could we do that for them? We experimented with it, and we started a podcast production agency. Now we create podcasts for some of the biggest brands in the world, and it's amazing. I would love to show you and your team how we can create podcasts for you and use it as an entertaining source, but also educational and a lead generation.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  If you're interested, go to bluemango studios.com. Again, bluemango studios.com, and our team can show you exactly what we did. It's amazing.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  I feel when we first did this prep call, that one was my jealous moment. Like, all my episodes, they're mine, but I get so selfish with them. And if no one listens to it, who cares? I'm getting edified. But that one, I was really keen on because I feel it tells so much, so much. When you look at a market like, I think that one helps build so much trust in a seller. If I'm going to work with them than anything else. And also, like you said, the credibility, because if you come to the call and I have to tell you how my business, I mean, not going to do details, but you should know I'm working with Donald. Let's go with this, a podcast host. This is what the other podcast host challenges are. These are some of the issues that they typically face.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  Looking at his podcast, he's been a dinosaur, been in the industry for a while. And you start talking to me about that. I'm like, dude, you took effort to come with me versus a seller with, again, another company that, again, a must have, they sell the must have solution that you do. But they come and they're like, tell me about your business. I'm like, bro, I don't have time for that. But that concept pushes you, elevates you so much more higher than anyone else. And I have more confidence that you could solve my problem because it sounds like you know what my issues are versus me having to help you get caught up to speed. You know what I'm saying?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So to me, it comes back to some of the hiring philosophy I have where I think I may have mentioned this when we spoke previously, but I think about it as three Es. So energy, excellence, and experience in that order, right? You can't teach somebody the enthusiasm and the energy that they show up with to a specific task. They have to have that a bit intrinsically. So you hire for that energy and then you hire for a demonstrated history of excellence in something, you know, for early stage people, it doesn't even have to be close to the career they did. Maybe it's being a concert violinist. Maybe it's being a D1 athlete. Maybe it's being a published writer in some form, right? Like, there's, there's a commitment to craft. So show up with energy.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  You show up with a demonstrated history or pattern of delivering excellence. And then experience is the only one of those three that comes with time, right? I can train anything. And I think it obviously helps when somebody has experience in the specific role you're hiring for, but that is the third most important in those three Es of critical exposure. And if they have energy and excellence, they will buy in to this empathy as well to the discrete customer problem that they're trying to solve for. And it will force them to put themselves in the customer's shoes. And especially if you're, you're selling something that's in the critical path, they don't buy it unless they earnestly trust that the person they're asking to solve it is going to do so with a commitment to excellence, with a commitment to their problem.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  It has empathy to the how it's going to impact you if it goes poorly.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  Oh, man, silky, silky. Now, if y'all are listening to this and you are a sales rep looking for a job, make sure you get those points down. If you're a sales leader, make sure you write those down when you're hiring. Yeah, I want to go into the third point because I know we could go on for days, but I want to be respectful of the time there. We've talked so far about, you know, building trust. We talked about the extreme insights and that behavior and why that's so critical. You kind of segue into the hiring part with that. But then the third part is one that you, another saying that you have that I find interesting, exact quotation, say, do, say. Why is this so critical when it comes to selling a must have?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, so say, do, say was a phrase I took from another leader I worked with previously, but it was a clever encapsulation of earning trust. If you say you're going to do something, you do it and you're building trust. If you build up a history of actually doing what you say you're going to do, you build trust. So this kind of comes back to point number one, you're earning trust over and over again with the customer that if Mark says he's going to do something, he will do it and it will get done. But say, do, say is about making sure you claim credit for it. So I think of that in a couple of different ways. One, if you present back what you heard from a customer, you are presenting back their information and claiming credit for the outcome that you're driving and anchoring it to the problem as they described it.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  So that works really well in POCs. You define what you need to do. You get consensus that that's how you need to prove the successful outcome of the POC. Then you deliver and then you present back the achievement. You say, hey, look, we lined up these goals. We executed against them and here they are achieved. And so you are saying it upfront, agreeing, then you're doing it. And then you're, again, presenting back, see, we did what we said we were going to do. And that creates an implicit agreement with the customer that creates a good alignment of expectations. And it is a good reminder to tie everything back to what we call a map or a mutual action plan.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  With every POC. So it's the line them up and knock them down to do list to define the successful outcome that works for them and works for us.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  Oh, man, I'm glad you mentioned a mutual action plan. Did take a second and just explain that of just one more second on that.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  So double tap.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, the mutual action plan as we use it is usually a very, very short PowerPoint deck. So it's just three slides. It's the problem statement around this is what you say is the pain. And then here's the task of the second slide is the sort of grid of tasks and swim lanes. Maybe it's legal review, maybe it's technical review, maybe it's budgetary and finance review or terms, but there's to do lists and stakeholders with names and specific delivery dates for each one of these tasks. And you, you keep the ones that have green checkboxes on the list. So you show how far you've come and then you create a sense of responsibility, but you always follow up the customer meetings with the mutual action plan and you show

• 26:21Speaker 01

  your progress as you, as you march through this to do list. And then the third and final slide is the commercial review. So over and over again, you have the pain and then you have the mutually agreed to do list, both with us as stakeholders and them as stakeholders. And then you have the commercial piece, but those three elements of the sale are defined and shared over and over again. And so that you have this progression of a deal with an ongoing document and you verbally get expectations and then write them down and send them. It's much harder to refute slipped timelines if you're constantly reporting back on what we said to each other.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  I love this. I'm a big fan of the mutual action plan. I've used it. The thing that I always gotten from that, Mark, is like 60% of the human population are visual. And in a complex sales process, you can see how easy stuff can slip. But when you use a mutual action plan, it's we're a project managing together and your say is important as my say. And now it makes it even more. And I think that goes so great with that say, do, say. Not only you say what you're going to say, each of you, it's not just a seller, but everyone say what we're going to say, we're going to go do that and we can help be held accountable to it. But it is shortened sales cycles. It has for me over the years, so I'm a, I'm a fan.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  Well, I'm listening to this podcast and I'm like, darn it, you know, I'm looking for my next gig. It sounds like Mark has a must have. Are you guys hiring right now, Mark?

• 27:45Speaker 01

  We are indeed. So we have, we have some open roles on the AE side. We have open roles on the BDR side and we're continually hiring and investing in various parts of the marketing org as well. There is also engineering product org roles open, but it's an exciting time to be at Secure Office. And one of the most fun things I get to do is show up and sell a customer a product that actually works, that is backed by a first class engineering team, backed by an incredibly fast moving product team. And I'm genuinely really pleased to be here. So it's, it's a lot of fun. Let's see if we can build this thing and accelerate the pace of this rocket ship.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  Well, dope. If folks want to get in touch with you just to learn a little bit more about some of the things you shared today, or even to apply for one of these things, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. I also respond to all my emails at [email protected]. And I think the easiest thing to do is just to hit me up on multiple channels and show me that persistence and I'm sure you'll get through and, and we'll, we'll be in touch. But I look forward to it. But also check out secureoff.com because that is, is full of exciting new, new information. And the, the product portfolio is significant and it's backed by some really cool, exciting things coming fast. So read up and then we'll talk.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show today, Mark. Thank you so much for the wonderful insights.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Thank you. Really appreciate you having me.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  Anytime.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  Hey, that was Mark and man, that stuff was good. I told you that first one, you probably wasn't thinking about, right? You probably thought we were talking some kind of tactic, but it came down to something simple. You gotta have trust. And then it comes back into this idea of when you do have trust, how do you help to show that you demonstrate that expertise to that prospect? And then finally, say, do, say, I think that's what he said, right? So you can find, it was a really good stuff. Yes, say, do, say. You can find the information that Mark shared about the roles that he has with his company in the show notes. And if you can get, you want to get deeper understanding about some of these things, you could reach out to Mark directly, or you can go back into our show notes and see the outline that we follow. But what our goal is with this episode, I wanted to help you if you're selling must have, it's competitive now more than ever. How can you ensure that you're staying top of mind and you're being more successful

• 30:02Speaker 00

  than your competitors? Listen, I want you to thrive. I want you to succeed, but most importantly, I want you to raise your level of thinking. I want you to go out and do big things. See you on the next one.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  The Sales Evangelist Podcast is created by the Sales Evangelist Sales Training Organization. It is produced by TSC Studios. Our podcast production manager is Nancy Paul. Our audio engineer is Jershun Obayal. Our video engineer is De'San Kunado. Guest management is done by Jill Vito and Kristy Virtus. Our content writer is Carlisa Galberith. Our graphic designer is Yurvish Savalia. And I'm your host and executive producer, Donald C. Kelly.

• 30:50Speaker 00

  Sales Podcast Network.