Your Sellers Are Motivated By WAY More Than Money | Sindre Haaland - 2034

37 reps who got the least recognition on one 153-person sales team averaged 62 percent quota attainment. The team average was 107 percent. That gap is the whole argument Sindre Haaland https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaaland/, CEO and founder of SalesScreen https://www.salesscreen.com/, makes for why comp plans alone don't explain sales performance. Why Identical Comp Plans Produce Wildly Different Results Sindre's core observation: two reps can work under the exact same comp plan and produce completely different results, which means money alone isn't the daily driver of performance. Comp plans set the structure and tell a rep what they need to do to get paid, but engagement is what determines whether they actually do it consistently. An engaged rep will outperform a disengaged one with the identical incentive on the table, every time. Know Your Sales Math Sindre's first question to any rep: have you actually broken your quota down into what you need to do today, not just what you need to hit by year end? Reps who treat sales as a series of repeatable, data-driven daily activities have a far more predictable path to their number than those relying on charisma alone. Even with a full pipeline of data, the numbers only matter if a rep has the motivation to actually execute the plan. That's the gap gamification is built to close. The Four Player Types on Every Sales Team Sindre borrows a framework from game theory to describe four types of sales reps: killers, achievers, explorers, and socialites. Killers are driven by being number one and seeing their name at the top of the leaderboard. Achievers care about personal bests, regardless of where they rank against everyone else. Explorers enjoy the process itself, testing new tools and new angles. Socialites, the majority of most sales teams, are driven by recognition, visibility, and feeling like their effort is seen. The TV and Music Moment That Changed Sindre's Career Sindre described watching a sales floor the first time his team replaced a whiteboard with TVs that played music and visuals every time a rep closed a deal. People were jumping on their desks. That reaction is what convinced him sales motivation itself, not another feature, was the real business to build. A rep's win becoming a shared, visible, celebrated moment does something a quiet bank deposit never will. Three Rules for Running a Contest That Moves the Needle Timing matters more than most leaders assume. Contests started on a Wednesday consistently outperform ones started on a Monday, since early-week motivation has usually faded by midweek. Shorter is better. Month-long contests tend to create a "valley of disengagement," with excitement in week one, a dead middle, and a scramble at the end. One-day sprints create urgency without the letdown. Change the format so more than the top performer has a real shot. A lottery-style contest, where every meeting booked or deal closed earns a ticket, gives the middle of the pack a genuine "I might actually win this time" feeling. Get Creative: Pairing, Envelopes, and the White Elephant Game Pairing a high performer with a lower performer on a team-based contest naturally creates coaching and mentorship, without ever calling it that. Simple physical mechanics work too: envelopes on a wall that reps can pick from after hitting an activity, some holding a dollar, some holding a bigger prize. Sindre's favorite: a white elephant style game where prizes range from real rewards to silly forfeits, and reps can steal from each other until the contest ends, creating genuinely memorable moments on the floor. The Recognition Stat That Proves the Point Sindre shared data from a 153-person sales team where they measured how often each rep received recognition in a month. The 37 reps who received the least recognition averaged 62 percent quota attainment. The team average was 107 percent. Recognition and quota attainment move together closely enough that Sindre treats recognition frequency as a leading indicator, not just a nice-to-have. Where to Start as a New Sales Leader Sindre's starting point for anyone new to this: interview your top performers and find out what they actually do every day, not just what the official process says they should do. Frequently, top performers are doing things nobody explicitly asked them to do, or doing an already-known behavior far more consistently than everyone else. Cross-check those behaviors against the rest of the team. Wherever the gap is real, that's where a leader's next contest or incentive should be aimed. "A motivated person will do better than a disengaged one, even with the same comp plan." — Sindre Haaland Resources Connect with Sindre Haaland on LinkedIn. https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaaland/Visit SalesScreen, the world's leading sales gamification platform. https://www.salesscreen.com/Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way. https://thesalesevangelist.com/linkedin-prospecting-course/Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content. https://bluemangostudios.com/ Sponsorship Offers This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot. With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales https://www.hubspot.com/products/sales. This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn. Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse https://business.linkedin.com/sales-solutions/cx/20/09/sales-navigator-podcast?src=re-pod&trk=tse&veh=tse&mcid=6897323946090332160. This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation. Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/UCMfjZbX. Credits As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey http://thesalesevangelist.com/survey. https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/lc5yAa8P We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sales-evangelist/id788738885, Google Podcast https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3RoZXNhbGVzZXZhbmdlbGlzdC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5kaXI3Pj2AhVKcjABHW5PDVwQ9sEGegQIARAC, Stitcher https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-sales-evangelist-sales-trainingspeakingbusiness-marketingdonald, or Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1NjzsFjQwVrgboUfDvbzd5?si=LdQOJDc1T-WBPMxr1h3RsA. Audio provided by Free SFX, https://freesfx.co.uk/ Soundstripe https://soundstripe.com/, and Bensound http://www.bensound.com/. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

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• 1:53Speaker 00

  Many of us are trying to figure out how to motivate these salespeople that are working with us. But what if I told you that your salespeople are not motivated only by money? Now, you may say, I know that, but do you? Let me tell you why in this episode. Check it out.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Hey, hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to another great episode of the Sales Evangelist Podcast. I'm your host, Donald C. Kelly, the Sales Evangelist. And I'm so excited for another great episode. I'm so excited to be here with you today. On this episode, I have Sindra coming on the show. He and I got a chance to connect a while back. And one of the things that he's passionate about is about helping salespeople get motivated, not only motivated by money, but some other means. Now, I'm not going to tell you what he does, but he's done some remarkable things that's helped him out. Over the years, he's worked with a variety of organizations. Not only has he been a business owner, working with some of the largest companies out there as well, but he runs a company right now that specifically ties towards helping salespeople get motivated. And SPIF is a part of it, but it's not always money.

• 3:00Speaker 00

  Let me tell you a little bit more about that as we dive into the episode. If this is your first time listening to our podcast, please subscribe and we'll be sure to notify you every time we drop a new piece of content. As we dive in, listen to how your sales reps are getting motivated and how oftentimes it's not because of how much you pay them. Check it out.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Welcome to the show. I'm excited to have you.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Thanks, Donald. It's great to be here.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Now, I bragged a little bit about you in a teaser there. Why don't you take a minute and tell us a little bit more about your role and all the fun stuff that you're doing right now?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Sure. So I'm the CEO and founder of Sales Screen and we're the world's leading sales gamification platform. I've been doing this now for 15 years and been working with quite a bit of sales leaders and obviously picked up a thing or two. Given my background as an AI engineer, I guess a bit of an orthodox entrance into the world of sales, but I like to think about it through the lens of numbers. So I'm happy to share a couple of stats during this show. I'm excited to do that.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  Well, you know, that's the fascinating part. Last week I had somebody on the podcast and we were talking about data as well. And one of the things we shared is about, I personally believe is that, I always said, sales was a science and an art, but the more that it's getting more complex, the harder it is to get in contact with the right prospect. I'm saying it's about 60% science, 40% art form. And I think that's why we've seen a lot more engineers and data scientists like being really successful in sales. Cause you gotta understand the data, you gotta understand where people are, what's causing them to move. And if we're just going to jump on our emotions and we're going to go to a cocktail and hour and hang out and think that's going to help us, those days are long gone and you have to do a lot more. And it's more than just blasting through everyone.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  So I think you think about it from an analytical standpoint, you're going to have a little bit more success in sales these days. Am I off on that?

• 4:53Speaker 01

  No, you're completely on target. And you know, one of the things that I'm always telling people is like, have you done your sales math? And by that, and it's just, you know, obviously you have your target, you have your quota, you know what you want to do, right? And I'm engaged, I want to crush it, I want to make money. But like, have you actually broken it down? What are you supposed to do tomorrow, today, like every day consistently? What is it actually is going to drive you towards reaching that quota? That's the big question.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  And it's like, I feel like if we are going to be order takers, of course, that's going to be a novelty idea. But if you're a consultant and you know, truly taking your role as like an entrepreneur, like a franchise owner, you're going to know these numbers, you're going to be a little bit more successful.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, 100%. I think like, just an example on that, of course, are you an order taker? Like, keep on doing that and be a great person. But like, if you're actually in charge of generating your own pipeline, like that's tough, man. That's really, really tough. Like often you need to do tons of cold prospecting and you need to do, you know, account research, contact research, find the right angle. It requires skills and obviously the art form of delivering that in a great opening and you know, a great pitch, that's still definitely really important. But like, the numbers need to back you up.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. And without that, and God bless you. You know, one of the things I want to tackle today is we talked about compliance, but why compliance doesn't change those salespeople who still have lack of motivation? Talk to me about why you're so passionate about compliance.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I find it fascinating. Obviously we have compliance and it's a structure that we need and it makes a ton of sense. Like the money is the ultimate motivator for most people working in sales. So you have your compliance and that pretty much tells you what you need to do. But for some reason, we always tend to come back to the fact that an engaged sales rep will outperform one who's disengaged. Like a motivated person will do better. Why is that? Like they have the same compliance. So there's something here, which is just not sitting right with me.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  Would you say salespeople are motivated than more than money?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I think that's the deal. I think that a lot of salespeople, and this is funny, you know? I think, yeah, I mean, it might be a hot take, but obviously, you know, we're not all the same. Like a lot of salespeople are what we deem as killers. You know, they're super excited, engaged in what they're doing by being number one in the pack and being top of the leaderboard, but not everyone is that. And like, we've seen, when we look at bigger sales team, we can actually categorize them into four player types. It's like the killers, it's the socialites, it's explorers and achievers. And this is like from the game theory and what makes people engaged, can be transferred into sales. And what's showing is that most people are socialites. So they're much more driven by the fact that you're recognized for your hard effort,

• 7:50Speaker 01

  that you're seen and visible in the organization, that you feel connected, that you feel that you're contributing, that you feel you're pushing a team forward. Most people, like the middle performers, they are socialites. That's what's driving them.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  The socialites, interesting. I'm interesting you brought that piece into it. You mentioned to me a while back, your story. Well, as a sales manager, you're working with your team and you did some things in the bullpen that totally changed the motivation and the way people were performing. Do you mind telling us that story? I know it had to do with the TV and some music and that's all I'm going to say.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's often not more you need, right? But it's, it's actually when I realized, I mean, this, you know, Donald, this is when I realized that I'm on to something. So I've actually done a couple of businesses before this that failed and almost like a messaging app. And we sold that to an advertisement sales company and they were sending messages every time they closed a deal to create energy and excitement. But what we ultimately understood is that we had so much data, we could replace their whiteboard with like actual TVs. And what we did though, that was pretty novel, is that when somebody closed a deal, multiple TVs in parallel would play music. And the first time I saw that in person, you know, it was insane.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Like people were jumping up on their desks, they were going bananas. I was like, what is going on here? Like, I just looked at my call founder, I was like, dude, this is it. You know, we're going to do this, this, we go all in. Like, sales motivation is the thing. So yeah, it's crazy.

• 9:31Speaker 00

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• 10:34Speaker 00

  Well, specifically around, we know that sellers like you, we agree with you. Sellers are motivated more than money, and the comp plan, everyone can have the same comp plan and still perform different. Why do sales leaders run SPIF? This is something that we talked about, and I think this was one of the points supporting your idea, because I think you also shared that seven out of 10 competitors increase revenue. You had some data around this, and I don't want to butcher it too much. Do you mind just telling us a little more about this, your theory on it?

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. So like, a core part of what we do is to run sales contests and competitions. And going back to those socialized, we want to devise good competitions that actually move the bar. So you know, where you can see a meaningful increase in performance when running the contest compared to the time before, that's a successful contest. So what our stats shown, like across 13,000 plus competitions run, is that roughly seven out of 10 succeeds, meaning they actually impact and do better when running a contest than when they don't. But more interesting is like, okay, so why is that? And is there anything we should know around running competitions?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  For once, you know, you shouldn't run them on a Monday, apparently. So the stats are much better if you do a competition on a Wednesday. So that's kind of strange. All right. Another fact is like, you should run them like one day basis. The longer they are, you will have an excitement in the start, it kind of tapers off, and then it goes up in the end. That makes sense, I guess. But the third thing is like, not only run that classic leaderboard competition, like do something crazy, do something different, like a lottery. So every meeting you book or deal you close, you know, you get a ticket, and by the end of the week, you spin a wheel and you pick the winners. The best performer is going to have the highest likelihood of winning, but if you just do something, you might win. And suddenly, the middle performers, and this is where you're going to see the uptick, right?

• 12:30Speaker 01

  They are starting to get engaged, because it's not only Joe who's going to win, you know? It's always Joe, but this time I might win, because I'm always, you know, middle of the pack, but now, if I do a couple of extra, I might actually take this. So changes the frame a bit, and the psychology behind it, right?

• 12:47Speaker 00

  If I do book one extra meeting, my name is getting in the hat twice. Joe's name is going to be in there three times, but I have a fighting chance at this point, you know? If I'm a middle of the pack person, one appointment Booker, that, you know, I love that idea. And I think it makes it fun that you look forward to something at the end of the week, too, right? With this competition. And I feel like this builds morale in so many ways. I'm curious to know, like, does it matter the competition that you do, though, with your team?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. It does, because like, if you do the same thing over and over again, it's going to taper off and not become as exciting. So you need to change it up. And depending on the individuals that makes out your team, some, you know, you might have really good success running, the number one gets the prize, if they are all killers. But, you know, our data supports that that's usually not the case. So if you also run perhaps like a competition that's team-based, where you take two and two and pair them up, for instance, maybe a high and a low performer, and now suddenly the high performer starts to help out the low performer, because they want the team prize. So stuff like that, like be creative. Another one, you know, put up envelopes on the wall. Every time you do something, you can pick one.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Inside, you might find a dollar, or you might find a thousand dollar gift card, you know? But you're getting my point now, right? This engages sales teams, right? It has nothing to do with the comp plan, but it's still going to fire me up, it's still going to make me do better. Like, it's, in a way, that simple.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  And yeah, and I like the, one thought I had initially, as soon as you said, like, you know, pair people up, I see you're creating coaching and mentorship without requiring coaching and mentorship, you know what I mean? It's a natural byproduct. If I'm on top performer and Lucy's not top performer on her team, but we're working together again, I need Lucy to be able to bring some stuff to the table. We may do lunch together and come up with a strategy or whatnot, and work towards that. The other fascinating thing I see as well, I, and you may laugh at this, I remember we were doing like, we were doing a competition when, SPIF, when I was working in a call center, right? And it was like something crazy. It was like only, not crazy, it was like, you know, a few dollars, like maybe five dollars or 20 bucks.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  We're getting paid a lot more than that, but my goodness, I didn't think I worked that, I didn't work that much more to win that SPIF for like, you know, 20 bucks or whatever. I didn't realize how much, I guess, no, I did work more, I just didn't realize I worked that much more, because it was a competition. Even though my salary was way more than that, it was just the idea of that win, right? And it was just fun with our friends. And then the other thing, too, was like, I've also noticed where it wasn't monetary, it was like, you know, a bicycle, or like a toaster, or something else that, or a day off, like, we were all excited for that thing, even it wasn't necessarily monetary. Is that your experience as well?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, 100%. Like, some of the, like, one game that you can run inside our platform is like the White Elephant game. So, you know, you have multiple prizes. So let's say, you know, it's Halloween, and you open up a new pumpkin, and you don't know what's in it. And once everyone has been open, you're going to recognize that there's like an iPhone there, there's a dollar bill, but there's also take 10 pushups in front of everyone else. And you know, what happens when everyone is open up and the contest hasn't ended? You start to steal and swap back and forth, and there's a likelihood that you're actually going to be able to steal that iPhone, and if you do, you swap. And then suddenly, five minutes before the contest ends, you're able to get that iPhone and swap away your pushups. Like, that creates a hilarious moment, and it's just amazing.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  So be creative, that's my, you know, my one goal here. If you want to have sales performance, think outside the box and engage your team. The comp plan is important for sure, but there's so much more.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  You had some stats that you were sharing with me before. Do you mind sharing some of those stats when it comes to, you know, salespeople working outside of the comp plan, or motivating outside of the comp plan?

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think like, the one part is the rule of Pareto, right? It's, so you're always going to have your top performer, and they're going to do a lot of the contribution toward any team. But what we've seen is that when you run incentives outside of the regular comp plan and day-to-day actions, where you're going to move the needle the most is with the middle performers, and they are the bottom, and they're the mid. So it's the 90% of your team. And we see a 59% increase in the middle performers when running successful gamification, which is incredible. So you know, the top performers, they're still intrinsically motivated, they're engaged, they're going to do well, and they might have an impact from running incentives, but like, don't forget about the middle of the pack.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  This is where you can do big things. So there's several stats that's quite interesting when we're looking at the sales performance, and obviously, we have quite a bit of customers globally. But like, a couple of sales organizations kind of comes to mind, and one, they had, you know, 153 sales reps. And we measure how many times a rep receives recognition. And the correlation between receiving recognition, and how many times you do that during a month, has a striking correlation with target attainment, quota attainment. So the 37 that received the least recognition, they had an average quota attainment of 62%.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  And the average in that team, and, you know, it's 153 people, was 107%. So recognition and target attainment goes hand in hand.

• 18:22Speaker 00

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• 19:07Speaker 00

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• 20:25Speaker 00

  You go back to the point where you were stating before, like, I'm paying you, for goodness sake, a decent salary. Why do I need to give you also these additional money? This costs me more money, but why should I do that?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think the salary and the comp plan is what makes me stick around. But the performance is actually a consequence of your day-to-day activities. So back to the sales math, what actually drives you towards getting to target and beyond? It's probably some truth between, you know, doing everyday prospecting, researching account, cold calling, outreach, knocking doors, going in meetings. And the closer you are to activities that a human being, being motivated, can do more, the better impact you're gonna have. And in that sense, you don't do a comp plan on how many cold calls you do every day. But it has a very strong correlation with what you're gonna achieve in target.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  So incentivize and motivate on the activities that you see the team need to do every day in order to get to goal, and you're gonna see better target attainment.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  This is applicable throughout, I'm sure, the whole sales process, right? Where I can bring some kind of motivation in. Are there any other ways we can? You talked about some of them for me already. You know, it may be around the activities and knowing your activity, your math, your sales math. But also, where else could I infuse motivation? Or sorry, spiffs, so to speak, to be able to help my sales process overall?

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's looking for the gaps. And, you know, obviously, we have gap selling, but I'm talking to it more in the sense of conversion rates. So if you know the sales math of every individual of your team, like, what is actually driving the outcome you're going for? And drill that all the way back to day-to-day activities they need to do. Focus on the conversion rates. How many do you convert to the next stage in that sales process? And when you start to look at all of the different people that you have, you're gonna see some notable differences in conversion rate. And I often refer to that as the skill or quality layer. So this is where you can have coaching moments, where you see someone really nailed, let's say, the cold calling to meeting set.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  And another person has a really strong win rate from opportunity to closed one. And like, what are they doing different than the rest? And you will identify a couple of behaviors, and that is what you want to quantify, capture, and create spiffs and competitions around.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  That's fun, man. Let's say I'm a new sales leader. I'm listening to this episode. I'm like, this is amazing. I just don't know where to get started. Is it just identifying those areas, like you're saying, and then get started? Or what's the very first thing I should do as a sales leader before I start looking at this? And shy of using your software, of course.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Of course, no. I think it's a couple of interviews you should do, especially with the top performers, right? So you focus on what does the best do every day? And like, sure, they're following the process probably set up by the organization really well, or perhaps they aren't. And what I can promise you is that when you start to do some real discovery work with them, you're gonna figure out that they're doing a couple of things that you probably didn't ask them to do, or perhaps you have, but they just do a normally a lot of it. So like, try to find the differences or the things that you didn't really understand. And then you can try to cross-check that with the rest of the team. And if there's a real gap there, then you have your marching order.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  You know what to do next.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  Love it, man. Well, if folks who are listening to this episode want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to go about doing so?

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I think I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, honestly. So, you know, pop in, follow me on LinkedIn. I do at least a couple of posts every week. We have a couple of interesting new publications on our website, salesfor.com. So yeah, I would love to connect and get to know more of your audience.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Well, I'll do the shameless plug. Your software is pretty dope, so I'm putting a link down to it in the show notes so folks can check it out. And I think this could help out a lot of folks, especially get some of these teams way beyond just the money motivation, but get them pumped and excited. So I appreciate this. Thank you so much.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Thanks, Donald. It's been a pleasure.

• 24:55Speaker 00

  Man, if you haven't connected with Sindra, go ahead and do so. You can find more details in the show notes. Tell him you heard him here on the Sales Evangelist Podcast. I know he would be greatly appreciative of that. And I'm thankful and appreciative of you taking the time to listen to the show. And for those who are new and subscribing, you know, that means a lot. Appreciate that. If you haven't done so, already share this link with somebody else that can benefit from it. And if you're looking to use LinkedIn more and get your team excited to take advantage of that, go to the salesevangelist.com/linked. Would love to have you join and check out some of the cool things we're doing. Again, the salesevangelist.com/linked. As always, I want you to thrive. I want you to succeed. But most importantly, I want you to raise your level of thinking. I want you to go out and do big things. See you on the next one.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  The Sales Evangelist Podcast is created by the Sales Evangelist Sales Training Organization. It is produced by TSC Studios. Our podcast production manager is Nancy Paul. Our audio engineer is Jershun Obayal. Our video engineer is DeSahn Kunado. Guest management is done by Jill Vito and Kristy Virtus. Our content writer is Carlisa Galberith. Our graphic designer is Yurvish Savalia. And I'm your host and executive producer, Donald C. Kelly.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  Sales Podcast Network.