Helping Customers Understand The Business Problem You Solve | Jeff Koser - 2005

One of the biggest mistakes sellers make is focusing too quickly on their product instead of understanding the deeper problem their customer is trying to solve. That’s why I wanted to bring back this conversation with Jeff Koser https://thesalesevangelist.com/episode1288/, founder and CEO of Zebrafy. Even though this episode originally aired during the pandemic, the principles still apply today, especially when it comes to standing out in crowded markets and building trust with buyers. Why Surface-Level Selling Doesn’t Work Jeff explained that too many sales reps stop at surface-level conversations. Customers do not buy because your product has more features. They buy because they believe you understand the real business problem they are facing and can help them solve it. That requires deeper research, better questions, and understanding the customer’s world before pitching a solution. The Importance of “Voice of the Customer” One idea that really stood out to me was Jeff’s concept of “voice of the customer.”Instead of only relying on your company messaging, Jeff encourages sellers to learn directly from customers by understanding: the problems customers believe were solved the value created after solving those problems and the measurable business impact the solution deliveredThat insight helps sellers communicate in a way that feels more relevant and customer-focused. Why Respectful Outreach Matters Jeff also shared why thoughtful outreach matters more than ever. Buyers are overwhelmed with emails, automated messaging, and generic pitches. Sellers who take the time to personalize their communication and genuinely understand customer priorities immediately separate themselves from the competition. At the end of the day, the best sales conversations happen when customers feel understood, not sold to. “We have to recognize that what we’re selling may not be everyone’s priority right now, which is why every sales conversation should give people a respectful and simple out.” - Jeff Koser Resources Connect with Jeff Koser’s website https://zebrafi.com/ to learn more about customer-focused selling strategies, and grab a copy of Voice of the Zebra https://www.amazon.com/Selling-Zebras-Business-Pursue-Profitably/dp/1929774575?tag=ytrtyuy-20 by Jeff and Chad Koser for additional insights on identifying and reaching your ideal prospects. Keep track of your sales activity and boost your results with the Prospect Pro sales tool https://prospectpro.io/. Step up your sales game with Sales Mastermind https://thesalesevangelist.com/sales-mastermind/. Get accountability, stay motivated, and tackle the blockers keeping you from hitting your goals. Visit Blue Mango Studios https://bluemangostudios.com/ for help in creating podcast production content. Sponsorship Offers This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot. With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales https://www.hubspot.com/products/sales. This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn. Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse https://business.linkedin.com/sales-solutions/cx/20/09/sales-navigator-podcast?src=re-pod&trk=tse&veh=tse&mcid=6897323946090332160. This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation. Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/UCMfjZbX. Credits As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey http://thesalesevangelist.com/survey. https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/lc5yAa8P We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sales-evangelist/id788738885, Google Podcast https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3RoZXNhbGVzZXZhbmdlbGlzdC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5kaXI3Pj2AhVKcjABHW5PDVwQ9sEGegQIARAC, Stitcher https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-sales-evangelist-sales-trainingspeakingbusiness-marketingdonald, or Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1NjzsFjQwVrgboUfDvbzd5?si=LdQOJDc1T-WBPMxr1h3RsA. Audio provided by Free SFX, https://freesfx.co.uk/ Soundstripe https://soundstripe.com/, and Bensound http://www.bensound.com/. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:53Speaker 00

  What is it your customers really want? I mean, what is it that they really need? If you can uncover this problem, you're going to be successful way more than your competitors, because oftentimes, they're scratching at the surface level problem. On today's episode, we're going into archive. We're going to pull out this episode. I think you're going to really, really enjoy it. Check it out.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Hey, hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to another great episode of the Sales Evangelist Podcast. I'm your host, Donald C. Kelly, the Sales Evangelist, and I'm so excited for another great episode. I'm so excited to be here with you today. On this episode, we're going into archives. We're going to pull out an episode with Jeff Koser. This goes way back, I mean, way, way back. But the principle Jeff taught back then applies now, and especially if you're trying to uncover the real problem that your customers are facing, this one is for you. If you're looking for a podcast that can help you to solve real sales problems, this is your show. If you're a first time listener, subscribe. I would love to have you every single time we drop a new piece of content. If you're new, if you've been here for a while, but you haven't really, you know, really shared this podcast, I mean, take the link and share it with somebody else. Jeff is going to give you a quick introduction of who he is. Check it out.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Welcome to the show, Jeff.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Hey, Donald. Thanks for having me. It's great to be back.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I'm excited to chat with you again, and I'm grateful that we're able to still meet underneath the circumstances here, and we're battling coronavirus right now, middle of it as a country, as a world.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Exactly, as a world.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, amazing. But I know there's a lot of things that's going to happen. And one of the things that I do know is that we're going to pull out of this eventually. The idea is how do we get back on the horse? How do we start back over? And I'm excited to talk to you about that today. But we have some new folks listening to our show who probably didn't get a chance to connect with you last time. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about you and what you do, Jeff?

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Okay, so I'm the founder and the CEO of a company called Zebra-Fi. We used to be known as Selling to Zebras, so some of your listeners might know us based on our award-winning book, Selling to Zebras. But basically, a zebra is your perfect prospect. We call it a zebra because when, even if a three-year-old looks at a zebra, right?

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Whether they see them at the zoo or at a picture, they know exactly what they're looking at. And that's the whole philosophy behind the simplicity of it and the purity of it, if you will. We've built a business with software. It's called software-guided selling. So we actually have software that guides B2B salespeople through. Best practice way to communicate and collaboratively sell along with with their collaborate with their prospects, collaborate with their customers to arrive at a mutually beneficial place at the end.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  There you go. That's awesome. And I'm, I think it's a, it's a powerful stuff. And if you want to listen to our first episode, you guys could check that out. We also have a link back into it as well. And you can get a chance to learn a little bit more about Zebrafy. But in the interim right now, talking about this topic, when you and I first connected Jeff, we had the discussion about how, you know, but content that we're going to deliver. And this thought came up, but why is this one so pressing for you right now? And I mean, obviously, I know for the whole world, everybody is concerned and trying to figure out how they could start back up. But for you, you're very passionate about this and you, you share some insights that I felt was very informative. I mean, would be very great for our audience, but tell us a little bit more about that.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  So right now, like we're talking about on the, on the front end of, of the show here, I think that all of us have to be very sensitive to the current world situation. I mean, our, our goal is very lofty. As you know, from talking with me last time, our goal is to change the way the world sells. But all of us have to recognize that who we are, what we are, what we're selling, what our business represents might not be a priority for everyone right now. They might have very different priorities. So we were approaching every sales situation, whether it's prospect or customer, with a format that basically gives them a simple out. So, so for example,

• 5:58Speaker 01

  when we write an email, if we haven't touched one of our customers or prospects in a while, we say something like, I hope you, your family, your fellow employees and customers are healthy and safe. With respect to the current world situation, we want to be very respectful of how we reach out to you. And we understand if you have entirely different priorities at the moment. But if the timing is right and we can help, we'd like to do so. So it, I mean, it's something along those lines that gives them a very quick and easy out. And then if they don't respond. Well, that was a response, right? If they don't respond, that means it's, you know, they do have other priorities.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, and I think that's, I like the messaging behind that because again, it's like you said, one, it's simple, two, it gives them an opportunity to have an out and three, it also says if, because I do believe that not everyone is in a bad situation, I mean, everyone is in a tough situation, but I do believe certain industries do have the capabilities and people do have needs for our products and services. And I'll give you an example, it's not, every business is not like this, but you know, God forbid, I mean, I'm glad we have our grocery stores because if we weren't for them, we would be all, you know, have a look right now, but they're an organization that still provide, that still have need, that's still generating a lot of income and they still need their vendors and they still need to have frontline advertisements and those things.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  And I, I look at TV and I see so many different ads, every company has, so it's not to say, and I think that's where sellers get hung up, I'm actually working on a post right now and one of the things is about how, you know, a sales rep was talking to me and sharing how he doesn't even feel like prospecting, feel like it's a waste. And I think that's not the case, you know, I mean.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Well, you know, but I think you have to be careful even with that. I'll give you an example of what I mean. So last week I got 149 email messages in my spam folder in a 124 hour period. 149, so you know, as, and a lot of them, you know, because of automation and automated marketing and even account based marketing and the software that drives it, there's a lot of really good messaging there that we're even inoculated against good messaging, right? Because we get so much of it. So we, you know, we are reaching out, there's a lot of companies that are reaching out, but most of them are not done

• 8:22Speaker 01

  in a respectful way that preserves the individual who's sending it, their individual brand or the brand of their company. I think you're tarnishing your own personal brand if you don't do it in a way that puts the other person first, which is, which is always the best way to sell anyway, but, but in these times it's paramount, right?

• 8:41Speaker 00

  Do you have any of those messages you've seen that just was, uh, because you got 149?

• 8:49Speaker 00

  Any that was that you can, maybe somebody is listening to this and they're like, dang it, I sent Jeff an email. I hope it didn't come across bad. What was it that that email said or some of those emails? I know it's probably hard to put on the spot to think about what, you know, what that email was like, but I imagine they didn't put you first.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. So some of them, so I did pop open a couple because a couple catch your eye in the subject line, right? I mean, that's, and that's, that's a credit to them. If I looked at any of them, because they were standing in the way of me and getting home, right? So, and that's, that's the way we have to view it. I mean, any messaging that we send to somebody that wasn't invited is really, and it might be an annoyance at this time. But the ones that were the most annoying, launched right into their product, literally, without any reference to, you know, the time in the world we're, we're in right now, the pandemic, you know, COVID-19 and, and the, the, just what people are going through, literally on every continent. And others that were a little bit better, did briefly

• 9:50Speaker 01

  mention the current world situation, you know, maybe with a quick note, hope you're safe and healthy, but I really want to sell you this product.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  So I, I think that approach has always been annoying, but now it's even more so. And it's, I think it's, so let's talk about what, what somebody can do.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  And stay positive, right? So I think what they can do is they can do their homework and they can make sure that the prospect that they're pursuing, and even the customer that they're pursuing, that they adamantly know that they are the fit, that that individual or that company really is a solid fit, that they have, one, the problem that they solve with their product, not the product itself, but the problem they solve, right? Two, that they're talking to the right person that owns that problem and would be responsible for solving it inside of a company. And three, they need to know how much value they would create by solving that problem and why it would be worth that person's time even now. So that would, that would be my recommendation and to stay in that tight circle.

• 11:01Speaker 00

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• 12:05Speaker 00

  So you guys are doing this right now. Why don't you give us an example, or maybe some of the clients you have that's been masterfully taking advantage of this, or how you guys are doing it? The who, define, going deep in that problem and how you can solve that problem. Would you be willing to give us an example?

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Sure. We, you know, even now, I mean, we've had some, we've had some clients pull back and say, "Hey, you have to help us right now," because, you know, we just don't have the cash coming in that we normally have. So we've, we've done that. And, but, we've also signed new business during this time. And it's because we have found a couple of customers that I want during this time, they, just like you said, we're coming out of this. We don't know when, but we're coming out of this. And so they're planning for it. You know, one of the things, I don't want to turn this into anything about us, so I'll be really careful. But one of the things we do is we talk to our customers' customers. It's called Voice of the Customer Work.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  And we ask them in their eyes, what problem was solved by buying our customer's solution? So now you have the vision of what the company does, what problem they solve through the eyes of the customer. And their words are always more powerful than our own, whether it's a salesperson saying it, or our marketing department, or anybody else other than the customer. And we get this information from them by talking to the executive, who would be the decision maker for our customer's solution. And we also ask them, when you solved it, you know, using our customer's solution, what value did that create for your business?

• 13:46Speaker 01

  So we get their view of that as well. And we're looking for quantifiable metrics, even from esoteric things, some things that are hard to quantify, right? But the reason I bring this up now is because a lot of times, our customers are selling to executives. They might be vice presidents, they might be a little higher than that, they might be a little lower than that, but they're executives. And they have, they have the ability to buy the solution. We say that that person that has the ability to buy your solution, we call that person power. And our simple definition of power is that they can buy even without a budget, because they can move budget around if, if you show them something that makes sense for them

• 14:29Speaker 01

  that would solve a problem and create value that maybe they didn't even know they could address. So it's tough to get to those people. And at this time, they're all sheltered at home, just like us. So it might be good timing to reach them. And actually, it's proven to be the case. This client that we just signed up, the customers that sometimes we chase tactfully, but diligently for weeks and even months sometimes to talk with them, we've got them lined up to talk to us. So, you know, we can get the core work that we try to do, that usually takes the longest, we can get that done quickly. So they're investing right now in that. And we thought it might be easier, and actually, it's proved to be easier.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  And I think people are looking for something positive to do in their day, right? And if they can give back to a customer that or to a company that has treated them well, and they can say something positive and, you know, I think it all just makes everybody feel better, frankly.

• 15:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, so go back to this. I really like the idea of the voice of the customer, voice of the customer, customer, because, I mean, that just makes so much sense. And I feel that's a next level of research. Sometimes as sales reps, we'll go and look into our customer's website and see what they're saying, but about their own business, but what their customers are saying, obviously, that's going to be able to drive tremendous value. And I can see that be able to, you know, obviously help in your pitch or your outreach. And you talk about the quantifiable data, you know, quantify some of that information. I think that's, that's awesome. That's fantastic. But I'm also thinking about the sales rep in me that's thinking, holy crap, I can't do this. This is so much work. How do I make this happen? I'm trying to survive right now. I have a mortgage to pay and I need to get some kind of money.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  I don't want to lose this job and I can't spend all my day researching. Dig me. Talk to me about that part. How do I go about making that happen?

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, good questions. And it is a lot of work. And it's work just to get those calls scheduled. It's work to prepare for them because I'll give you a little bit of the backdrop for most companies. So most companies, when they sell the first time to a new customer, they might meet the person that we just described before, the person we call power. And they might not, right? But that person is always looming somewhere that maybe they're behind the scenes. If we do meet them and they approve the purchase, usually our relationship doesn't stay at that level, doesn't stay at the power level. It settles back down to the user level, whoever the user of our solution is, the day-to-day person, right?

• 17:06Speaker 01

  So we've lost contact with power. So if we ever knew who that was in the first place, that's the first problem. And if we did, we no longer have that relationship. So we have to find out who that person is now. So you have to do a little bit of homework there. And you have to also, we prescribe that you have to try to figure out, what do we think that customer might say in terms of what is our value? Value. What problems do we think they might say are the problems we solve for them? To get the conversation started and you have to do research on their business so that you understand what it is they do and how they do it so that you can dive in and get good detailed information, the good type of information you're looking for. Without that level of

• 17:49Speaker 01

  preparation, it'll just turn into a reference call, which is not really what you want, right? If they say good things, that the customer always does what they say they're going to do, or whatever, if they say they, you're looking for deeper, deeper metrics. You're looking for the deeper conversation. So we actually wrote a white paper on this. It's called Voice of the Customer and we'll send you a link to that. It's on our website. Yeah, we'll send you a link to that. And it describes this process. And most companies, like you said before, can't do it themselves. That's part of why we exist. That's part of what we do. And it's, it's that information that becomes the raw material for building out the rest of the tools that we build that help

• 18:33Speaker 01

  guide sales through, through this software-driven path that we create for each customer.

• 18:42Speaker 00

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• 19:27Speaker 00

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• 19:47Speaker 00

  Since 2013, we launched this podcast. The goal of the podcast was to share wealth of information and I feel that we've successfully done so. As a natural byproduct, listeners like you would reach out and ask, could I coach them? Could I train their team? Could I come and speak in an S K O? Could I consult for them? And that is how we gain the majority of our business and still to this day. So in 2019, one of our clients saw what we did and asked, could we do that for them? We experimented with it and we started a podcast production agency. Now we create podcasts for some of the biggest brands in the world and it's amazing. I would love to show you and your team how we can create podcasts for you and use it as an entertaining source, but also educational and a lead generation.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  If you're interested, go to bluemangostudios.com. Again, bluemangostudios.com and our team can show you exactly what we did. It's amazing.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Would you be willing to talk a little bit more about some of your softwares and tools and how some of these could help them?

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Sure. So we call it software guided selling and what we recommend is that everybody create their zebra and our software allows you to do that and to measure it. It allows you to find zebras and we, in fact, your show, this is, believe it or not, this is the first time we're announcing a new product we have. It's called the Zebra Sales Bot for Salesforce. And what it is, it's a little button that lives inside a Salesforce, tiny little thing that when you click it, if you're on a good prospect or you're on a good customer, it'll go find five more that look just like that for you.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  So, but now there's, here's a little bit of a caveat. So we've started with manufacturers, software companies, so high-tech software companies and services companies. And those are the ones that we've ingested the information into our, our system so that it can go find five that look just like that prospect or customer that you're on right now. So that's, that's where we have data.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  So that's, it's, it sounds like my mind initially, I thought it was going to pull information based on the prospects you currently have in your sales force, but this is going out to the web and finding potential people.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  That's exactly what we did.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  So we went out and we, we used federated, it's called federated search and we combed the web and we ingested that information into, we're actually using AI and machine learning, not that anybody cares, but that's, that's how it happens. And yeah, we've been working on this for several years because we, we've got great data on what makes a perfect prospect for our customers. So that's the type of information that we started to gather that as you look at, if you say, if you, if you're in Salesforce, for example, and you say, this is our best customer, click on it and it'll go find you five more just like it. You could do it, you could say, okay, this is our best customer in this vertical, or

• 22:46Speaker 01

  this is our best large customer in this vertical, or this is our best medium customer in this vertical. So those are just, I mean, just think of some of the scenarios that you could do. And we're offering your listeners a free beta of this capability.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  Sweet.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  For six months. How's that?

• 23:05Speaker 00

  That's a deal.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  And you know why we did it first on your show?

• 23:11Speaker 00

  What is that?

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Because you have been the most persistent about getting us back on with you.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  You do it, you do it the way we teach it, frankly, you do it nicely with Verve, but you don't go away.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  And we, that's the same way we are, you know, you, you always leave us feeling good about your brand and that's why we decided to go first on your show.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. We, I love the information that you always share. So we, we figured, you know, we want to get you back in front of our community and, and the topic was very enticing and we're like, we gotta get Jeff back. So I'm glad we, we're glad we did. I'm glad we're persistent and I'll tell the team, I'm sure they're listening to this episode now.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  As we're going through the recording. So if I'm the sales manager or I'm the sales rep, I had just heard this, I could take advantage of this tool. It can help me with being sensitive. It can help me accomplish these things, right? As I'm going back out, as I'm starting back up, because let's say it's day one, or let's say month one, I'm guessing right now, I'm just gonna throw a random data out there. Let's just say it's June 1 and things have been lifted and we're going back to to work. What's my first thing I should be doing right now as that sales leader of this team?

• 24:26Speaker 01

  So that's why we also wrote a talk track and an email template to go along with this. So similar to what we were talking about before about how do you approach a prospect now? I mean, what words do you use to prove that you do care, that you are sensitive, but that you're also open for business?

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  So with the information that we'll send you following our discussion today, there will be a link to our website where they can go get templates for how do you start a new sales cycle conversation? How do you try to close a deal in this environment? What are some suggested ways for doing that? So we'll give you links to those so that they can start up in a respectful, tactful, and hopefully also effective way.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Well, I love that. And I'm grateful for these tools. I'm grateful for this insights. Now, one thing, does your tool, it works with Salesforce right now? Any other CRMs that you guys have looming that they could work with?

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we are working on others and it also works inside of our software. But because of the way we've architected this, you don't have to have our software to do it this time, which is really nice. So it's very inexpensive even once we do launch it for real, where people will license it. But our vision is to be in all the major CRMs eventually. We want to do the beta, though, to make sure that it's working as well as we think it is and get feedback from your listeners as they leverage it to help them with their sales growth and fill in their pipeline.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Well, we'll definitely make sure we push that out and I'm grateful for that. And I'm excited. So as you're listening to this episode, you guys should definitely go back into the show notes and connect with Jeff and take advantage of this offer and this tool. But Jeff, if there's one major takeaway you'd like folks, sales reps and sales leaders alike, who are listening to this episode or getting ready to get back on a horse, there's one major information or source of information you want them to get? What's that one major piece of advice?

• 26:26Speaker 01

  So I would recognize that this isn't all about about you. It's not all about me. It's not all about them. It's all about the prospect today and their current situation. So you've got to be respectful of that and recognize that their priorities might be very different and allow that. And there's still enough prospects out there, just like there's always enough zebras for every business.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  And if we just pursue zebras, the world will literally even be a better place.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  Oh, man. So darn true. Well, Jeff, we appreciate you coming back on the show. If folks want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do so?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  So they can reach me at [email protected].

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Jeff at zebrafi. Jeff, again, thank you again. I appreciate you.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Thanks, Tom. I appreciate you too.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  Hey, I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Jeff. If you haven't done so already, go connect with them on LinkedIn. You can find its detail in the show notes below. But I want you to understand the principle behind this episode. There are key things that you can do to be able to help discover the real problem your customers are facing. If you can do this well, money in the bank every single time. As always, I want you to thrive. I want you to succeed. But most importantly, I want you to raise your level of thinking. I want you to go out and do big things. See you on the next one.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  The Sales Evangelist Podcast is created by the Sales Evangelist Sales Training Organization. It is produced by TSC Studios. Our podcast production manager is Nancy Paul. Our audio engineer is Jerson Obayal. Our video engineer is DeSahn Kunado. Guest management is done by Jill Vito and Kristi Virtus. Our content writer is Carlisa Galberith. Our graphic designer is Yurvish Savalia. And I'm your host and executive producer, Donald C. Kelly.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  Sales Podcast Network.