Top AI Scientist "Gone Mad" and Executes His Nephew In Front Of Courthouse

One prominent UFO researcher once said, if you start looking for patterns, you will find them. And people think one of the worst patterns to emerge in 2026 is the pattern of important scientists going missing or ending up dead. Is it a fear‑mongering conspiracy where netizens are connecting together a few dots and calling it a line? A link? Or is it a real legitimate theory? I can’t be the one to tell you. Dr. Chen, a Chinese researcher based in the United States, has the type of resume where if something happens to him it makes you want to throw coincidence out the window. Outside a small Massachusetts courthouse, he locks eyes with a younger man… and within seconds, Chen is running him down, firing 5 to 6 shots, and leaving his 23‑year‑old nephew dead in the parking lot. Has this once brilliant scientist finally gone mad? Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

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• 0:59Speaker 01

  Badabing badaboo.

• 1:00Speaker 00

  One prominent UFO researcher once said, "If you start looking for patterns, you're gonna find them." And people think one of the worst patterns to emerge in 2026 is the pattern of important scientist going missing or ending up dead. Is it a fear mongering conspiracy where netizens are connecting together a few dots and calling it a link? Or is it a real legitimate theory? I mean, I can't be the one to tell you. However, it does seem that any scientist or researcher studying something important to the greater safety of humankind or the detriment of humankind, anyone, scientist, researcher, involved in some sort of death, it's going to be investigated by some curious netizens.

• 1:43Speaker 00

  So Chen, a Chinese researcher based in the United States, he has the exact type of resume where if something happens to him, it makes you want to throw coincidence out the window and sign up for like a front row seat at Conspiracy Con. Chen has a research role at Cassia, which is basically China's flagship AI research institution right now. Although they were first formed, I will say, to help China build nuclear missiles and satellites, their first program was actually called Two Bombs, One Satellite, which is like...

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Two bomb?

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, two bombs, one satellite. Yeah. And Cassia's signature specialty is actually biometrics, which is how they teach computers how to identify humans by face, by their iris, and even their gait, how they walk. They had this like whole thing where they could identify you. They don't even know you, they don't know what your face looks like, but they could identify you from like a mile away on CCTV footage if they like follow certain gait patterns. Yeah. They have a free data set of people's faces that have become one of the most widely used training set in the entire world for facial recognition. He was a postdoctoral researcher in the bioinformatics division at Tsinghua University. What does that even mean? What is bioinformatics?

• 3:00Speaker 00

  It sounds kind of like cute, but it's not cute at all. It's a very interesting role. It's not just data, it's not just AI, machine learning. You have to specialize in all of that, but you also have to specialize in molecular and cell biology. Researchers in the bioinformatics division at Tsinghua are working on projects like the Human Cell Atlas, which is actually a giant international project, like a global initiative. It's to catalog every cell type, describe its molecular fingerprint, if you will, and notate where it lives and what it does. Basically, Google Maps for the human body, which the human body is made up of roughly 37 trillion cells. So this is gonna take a minute. The goal would be to give every biologist like a shared reference.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  So if they find a weird cell in their own experiment, they can look it up against the master map. It would also make it easier to find out which cells changed, how, you know, which could help find cell signatures that flag early cancer before it's dangerous. But if you're not working on the single cell atlas, they could be in any number of different AI and biology research programs. The whole idea is LLM, large language models, so ChatGPT cloud, but instead of being trained on human language, they're gonna be trained on the human body. Biology, like a language. Create a foundational model, a cloud for cells, ChatGPT for cells. They train on cells and patterns of which genes turn on together, in which cell types, under which conditions.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  The ultimate goal, they said, is to have a digital patient. So everybody has a patient profile and now they have one for AI and you run experiments and medications through the digital patient before the real patient, which sounds like it could also save lives, but also sounds really fucking terrifying at the same time. Okay? But after those research positions in China, Chen gets invited to come to the United States. He doesn't try to immigrate, he gets an invitation. It's like a Hogwarts invitation in the mail for a research role for Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, which has been dubbed the birthplace of molecular biology. So there is that. They've been around since like 1890.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  They're a world-renowned nonprofit, private research and education institution. The lab today focuses on five distinct areas: cancer, neuroscience, genomics, plant biology, and quantitative biology. They do a lot of important work, but also they were the epicenter for the American eugenics movement at one point. So the lab did preserve all its records for teaching and research while openly discussing it. So I guess they're trying to be transparent about one of the darkest chapters of American history in science, but I mean, who's to say, right? Chen gets an invitation from that lab, the Cold Spring Harbor Lab, to come study in the US, do research for them. He moves to Long Island, New York. His research direction is so complicated.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  He's focusing on providing systematic solutions for early diagnosis and precision treatment in cancer research using bioinformatics technologies. Yeah, it's a very important role. He also joins Harvard as a research scientist in the Department of Statistics. Throughout his entire career, he has published, co-authored at least 15 papers in notable peer-reviewed international journals in subjects like cancer, basically like trying to cure cancer. He starts his own company in China called My Health Gene. The company uses huge amounts of biological data, DNA, genes, they analyze to help doctors catch diseases early on and pick treatments tailored to each individual patient. So he's got the type of resume where if he's involved in a death, people are gonna start

• 6:36Speaker 00

  a conspiracy theory online. April 7th, 2022, outside the Cambridge District Courthouse in Medford, Massachusetts. It's like a small courthouse with three courtrooms. There's two jury deliberation rooms, it's 12 holding cells. It's not like a big, giant fortress building like a lot of federal courthouses. You get a free parking lot, there's restaurants right next to it, you go pay your ticket and then you go eat, I don't know, bajangles. Okay, that's the vibe. Researcher Chen is walking towards his car, a white Chevy Equinox, it's like an SUV. And as he's walking, getting ready to get into the driver's seat, he, I don't know if he does, but he must, right? He must sense something, like something must shift in that exact moment.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  It is believed that as he's getting into his car, he locks eyes with this young man who also just stepped out of the courthouse. And there must be something that happens between the two of them. Nobody hears any sort of exchange, nobody hears them talking, or at least I haven't reported it, but something must happen. Some reports describe it as they share a look. Whatever it is, it's like something activates inside of researcher Chen. He gets in the car, turns the engine on, and before anyone else can react, he slams the foot down on the accelerator. He's not booking it to leave the courthouse. He's accelerating and ramming straight into the young man who just walked out of the courthouse that he just locked eyes with. He's not honking for the young man to get out of his way. This is not like a road rage incident either.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  Chen, the brilliant researcher, drives directly into this young man. He basically has him trapped. So this young man is now trapped in between the Chevy Equinox, Chen's car, and another parked car. He's trapped. Chen reverses, rams it back into him until the front of Chen's SUV is completely dented, like the surface of the moon. And then Chen steps out of his car.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Slamming into the young man and another car?

• 8:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, but mainly the young man. Then he steps out with a black handgun and fires into the young man five to six times. This is a courthouse. Where the hell are the cops? Why isn't anybody stopping Chen? Police officers are circling him within seconds. You know, they're pointing their own weapons while ordering him to drop his. But it's not the police that stopped Chen. It's very interesting. It's a tall man in a suit walks up. He approaches Chen, restrains him, almost calmly, like he's just pinning Chen on the ground. He uses his knee, so Chen is face down. And this man in the suit has his knee on Chen's back. And then using one of his hands, he's kind of rubbing Chen's back, almost soothing him.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  And then finally, the police come over, handcuff Chen. Who the hell is this man in the suit? This is Chen's attorney, who was just representing Chen in the courtroom. Chen, the brilliant researcher, is now being arrested and the young man laying dead in the parking lot of the courthouse is Wang Kong, otherwise known as Cohen. He's 23 years old. And he's Chen's nephew. But would this scientist kill his own nephew, his sister's own son? It doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. Well, it is believed that Cohen wanted a wife. He wanted a woman to marry, but like, what does that have to do with Chen? It is reported that Cohen didn't just want anyone to marry.

• 9:52Speaker 00

  He wanted to marry scientist Chen's wife, his aunt.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support NAMI National, also known as the National Alliance on Mental Illness. NAMI is the nation's largest mental health organization dedicated to improving the lives of individuals. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers. We would also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com. Today's episode includes brief mentions of stalking behaviors, gun violence, some quotes or statements may be condensed for brevity, and a lot of the research, even though this case does take place in the United States, a lot of the research was done with the help of our Chinese translators because there's just a lot more information in China. You'll see why in a second. But with that being said, let's begin. The setup for Chen, it's just

• 11:03Speaker 00

  not ideal. It's not ideal. He has his wife, Michelle. They have, Michelle is a pseudonym. Um, her name is, I wouldn't say, it's not widely circulating, so we're gonna keep it Michelle. She has two young kids, and Chen is barely home. Now, to be fair-

• 11:17Speaker 01

  How old is Chen and Michelle, though?

• 11:19Speaker 00

  They're like in their late 30s by this point, early 40s, and-

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Okay. How old are they? Yeah, too young?

• 11:26Speaker 00

  Elementary school. So they're pretty young, yeah. Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Seven to 11?

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. And Chen is like barely home. He's never home. He's not doing school pickup and drop-off. And to be fair, he is the sole breadwinner, and his most lucrative business appears to be the one in China, where he has the biotech company. He has all these research roles in the United States, but you're not getting paid a bajillion dollars to be in the Department of Statistics at Harvard, but you probably will get paid a bajillion dollars to own a private company in China that helps cure people of certain diseases.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  So he's back and forth, or?

• 11:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. Halftime in China, halftime in Boston. And it's doing really well. He's even being invited to speak as the guest at the Tsinghua, Beijing, Tianjin, Hubei Healthcare Big Data Summit Forum. The amount of ink that they would need to just like have a letter heads with that entire, it's unclear exactly how his time is divvied up, but I would say it's like closer to 50/50. But it has been established that Michelle Chen's wife, she is adamant that she wants her children raised in the United States. So it's not like Chen leaves her without a choice. It's not like Chen is like, well, you have to stay here, I'm gonna go. In fact, if Chen had it his way, they would all move back to China. Because not only does he have his company, he's been offered really crazy prestigious roles in

• 12:43Speaker 00

  research and things that would give him a lot of funding to do, I guess, his life's dreams and goals, whatever that may be. It has been said that the longer this back and forth goes on, Chen senses some tension with his wife, Michelle, because every time he comes back to Boston, she does seem a little bit distracted. She does seem a little bit distant, but that could also be because she's just fricking exhausted. She's holding the house down by herself. She just might be awash with dilemmas and deficiencies, you know? However, it is noted that Michelle is the one that also wanted him to go to China to start this lucrative business, and she did not want to go with him. So technically, it is a compromise. Chen does make it back to the family to spend all the big holidays, so he's back for Christmas, he's back for Chinese New Year, and sometimes he likes

• 13:27Speaker 00

  to keep it fresh. He wants to surprise his kids. In 2019, after finishing up this huge project with his company in China, Chen decides, I got time. Sure, I was gonna stay in China for an extra three days to wrap up the project, but it's already wrapped, so I can go home three days earlier than I expected. The name of the game is surprise. I'm gonna go surprise my wife and kids. He quietly boards a flight home, gets to the airport, drives back home in Boston, and when he slips his key into the front door, all's quiet. Everything's good. He walks up the steps, opens the door to the primary bedroom, and there in his bed is his wife, his 39-year-old wife, Michelle, and his 19-year-old nephew. And that is

• 14:07Speaker 00

  how Chen finds out that the last year of his life has been a lie, okay? Well, over a year, like a year and a half, because the nephew's almost turning 20, but he, in his house, it's his wife and nephew, they've been having an affair in his house. Not only is he betrayed by his wife, he's also betrayed by his nephew. It's not just his marriage that blows up that night, it's his entire extended family. Now, this is not incestual in the sense that the nephew is Chen's sister's son. So his wife has no-

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Blood?

• 14:38Speaker 00

  -blood relation to the nephew. So I guess that's the only silver lining, is this is not an incestuous affair, but I, I, I mean, that's like a really low bar to set. It's his wife, and it's his sister's little brother at the end of the day. To Chen, it probably feels like a multifaceted attack on his psyche. On top of that, affairs are always very tricky when it's happening inside the shared marital home, because that's supposed to be your safe space. Moreover, moreover, Chen is the one that invited his nephew to come live with them out of the goodness of his heart, so that his nephew could go to college in the United States.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 15:11Speaker 00

  So in 2016, back in 2016, Chen gets a call from his older sister, and she's telling him that her one and only son, Cohen, the only nephew that Chen has, because he only has one older sister, and this is the only son that she has, he's ready to go to college now. But the problem is, he wants to study abroad in the US. But the problem with that is that his English is not good enough to yet apply to most of the colleges that he wants to attend. So probably the fastest way to learn English would be going to the United States, taking a gap year, immersing himself in the culture and the language, and going to like a English program. Would Chen mind if Cohen could come stay with him in Boston for a year to learn English? Just provide housing and food, and we're gonna send a little money for transportation. Like, the setup is, a lot of Asians have probably

• 15:54Speaker 00

  experienced the setup, okay? And then he gets to college, we'll go from there. That's it. Just like a year, really, is what we're asking. We're not asking you to put him through high school. It's just a year, and then he's gonna dorm in college. That's the plan. Cohen joins the Chen family in Boston. Michelle doesn't like this. She is not happy. She, she's got two kids. Now she has to watch this random-ass teenager, okay? Not blood relation. She's never even really met the kid like that, and now she has to watch him. In fact, this is a huge point of contention for them early on. Michelle is arguing, like, I don't even want him to be here. First of all, why are you even saying yes if you're not even here to help take care of him? You're gonna be in China most of the time. So it's, it doesn't make sense. Now she's doing chores, cooking, cleaning, managing the entire household

• 16:39Speaker 00

  with some teenagers she barely knows, adding on to all of it. But Chen convinces his wife, his older sister is the only reason that he was able to go to college. She paid most of his tuition, and this is her son, so he owes it to his sister. Also, Chen's been with Michelle since college, so she kind of knows. So she's like, okay, you know what? Fine.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  Chen leaves for China, and at first, he's very worried that every time he calls Michelle, it's just gonna be screaming on the other line. She's gonna be like complaining about how miserable she is, and how this is so unmanageable, and, you know, now there's this stinky, probably smelly, unhygienic teenager living in their house, and she just wants to like punch someone in the face. But no, every time Chen would call, she would tell him, Cohen is helping around the house, doing chores. He seems really grateful that he has this opportunity, so he's trying to do his part. He's actually a very mature young man. Chen is so relieved. He's like, holy cow, this is great. Until he's not relieved. The part nobody knows, however, is who initiated the affair. Not that I think it's, well, maybe

• 17:42Speaker 00

  it is kind of pertinent, but it's believed by some that Michelle has blamed Cohen for seducing her, and Cohen blames Michelle for seducing him. And they're both selling their sides of the story to Chen when he finds them in bed together. We don't know who did what. However, the likely starting point of this affair seems to be from English tutoring lessons. So remember, Cohen is trying to learn English. He went to this English academy to learn, and he ends up failing his very first English exam that he worked a year to study for. So the whole point of the agreement was, he's gonna come to America to learn English, get admitted into an American college. If he can't learn English, he can't get admitted into an American college, and then all of this would have been for nothing. So Michelle

• 18:23Speaker 00

  takes it upon herself, has been what's been reported, and she decides that, I'm just gonna tutor him in my free time. Like, when the kids are at school, I'm just gonna like try to help him with his English. It works. He passes all of his exams, successfully gets admitted into Northeastern University in Boston for computer science, which is obviously not the only thing that he gets into while he's in the United States. The affair goes on for almost two years. So it does seem that he was of age when it started. So there's no allegation that he was not of age. It seems like he was about to turn 20 when the affair was caught, so it's like almost two years.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Started like 18.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. And even after getting into Northeastern and moving into a dorm, moving out of Chen and Michelle's house, they allegedly continue the affair. So he's just dropping by, playing daddy. Yeah, the only person in the dark of what's happening in his house is Chen, the one who's working nonstop in China, earning money to support his wife and children, and now his nephew is in his house playing house.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Wow, that's really fucked up, too, for the two kids, though.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  They also live there.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 19:31Speaker 00

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  That night, after kicking Cohen out, Chen can't even sleep in the same house. He goes to a hotel and he decides he's going to divorce his wife. There's nothing else that he can do about it. It's not something that he's going to get over. And the whole process of divorcing his wife goes as amicably as one would hope a divorce goes. He does have to go back to China frequently, still, after the divorce. It's believed that his wife and children end up staying in the Boston house. Chen is not lashing out on them. He's not trying to take every penny with him that he earned and rob Michelle out of a life and home. There's no violent tendencies. There's no really even strong resentment. It seems like he just cuts her out, but still co-parents.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  Some allege that, once the emotions settle down a bit, Chen has a conversation with Cohen about it, which I can't imagine any sort of conversation like this going well. But allegedly, it ends with Cohen telling his uncle, "I will stop harassing you guys as long as you let me marry my aunt."

• 23:37Speaker 01

  What?

• 23:39Speaker 00

  The worst part about this is Chen's sister, so Cohen's mom.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  How do we know that? And what is that? What's going on?

• 23:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. No, there's a reason behind it, and it's actually kind of like weird and dark, but you'll see. The worst part, though, is that not only Chen is like, "What do you, what do you mean? Like, why would you marry my wife, well, ex-wife now, right?" His sister agrees with him. His sister is like, "You need to let my son marry your ex-wife because you guys are divorced anyway."

• 24:11Speaker 01

  I cannot believe this.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  Outside of the...

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Wait, hold on. This is like breaking...

• 24:16Speaker 00

  He's flabbergasted, yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  No, because even for Chinese people, one is, you know, these things are even more frowned upon, just for the cultural reason. Number two is, for the mom to want the son to marry the aunt is even more unbelievable.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Outside of the Harry Potter series, a lot of people in China are referred to as Voldemort's. Say Voldemort the way that you do in China.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Fu Di Mo.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Yes, okay. Actually, it has nothing to do with the source material. It's not a nickname for those caught gossiping with snakes or like bald men with uniquely shaped noses that streamline the process of breathing. Like, it's not for those people. It has nothing to do with that. It's rather the phonetic pronunciation of the word Voldemort. In Chinese, it's...

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Fu Di Mo.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  Which, if you switch the characters, it can also be read as monstrous brother supporter.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Monster?

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Brother support.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Brother support. Okay, okay. That's a really unique way.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like an oddly complicated nickname, but like, once you get the nuance, it all clicks. There's a few prerequisites that must be met for someone to fully live up to the nickname. You must be a sister. You must have a brother. It is better if the biological brother is younger than you, preferably like a few age gap is, you know, the best part, is like the sweet spot. And the most important aspect is, your family must not have enough resources for every child. That is when someone could become Voldemort. It is to describe families with a strong patriarchal mindset that prefers sons over their daughters, which results in the family resources being directed only to the sons. There have been countless situations where the older sister forgoes college, not because

• 26:04Speaker 00

  she can't get admitted, she's already been admitted, but because the family can only afford one tuition and it's going to go to the brother. The daughter has to stay behind, drop out of school early, so she can focus on helping the struggling family business, while the son, who's not nearly as bright as the daughter, because of course he's not, he's been spoiled his entire life because they live in a patriarchal society in those specific families in China, gets to go live in a big city, attending college, while everyone back home is supporting him. The nickname Voldemort is not to shame the sisters that this happens to. It's more so like a description of they're getting their souls and dreams sucked out of them slowly by their families. The shame is placed on the parents and obviously society, but the sisters are called Voldemort's because phonetically, it, you know, can mean that. It's like kind of used sympathetically.

• 26:47Speaker 00

  So if you look at a girl who's given up everything for her brother, you might say like, "Oh, well, she hasn't had the best shot at life because she's a Voldemort." It's more like, it's not really her choice. She could have done way better. It's just, this is what happened. If anyone has the rights to this god-awful nickname, it's probably Chen's older sister. She's basically like grandfathered into this. It's a miserable, unlucky position to be in. Chen's family are from a really, really small town. They've got two kids, so they have Chen's older sister and Chen. They're only three years apart, which makes this even worse. Usually, when the son is older, the parents come up with a bunch of palatable excuses like, "Oh, well, he's going to go to college first because he just got in and we're going

• 27:29Speaker 00

  to save a lot of money for the next few years, so you can maybe go to college." Probably not. But when they're younger than you, it's like, "Well, no, you can't because we're saving the money for your little brother." Chen's family are day laborers, mainly doing farm work. Chen and his sister were also expected to help with, but they noticed that Chen would try to sneak away from work to read in a corner when he was a kid. Everybody noticed, nobody got mad at him. They thought that this might be the start of a child who could get them out of this situation. Somehow, both the siblings were blessed academically. Chen's older sister ends up getting admitted into a Key Point High School, which Key Point High School is in China notoriously difficult to get into. Essentially, it's a pre-college admissions program. And just to give you a bunch of context, in the 70s and 80s, China did not have enough

• 28:14Speaker 00

  educational resources, but they wanted to compete with the rest of the world. How do you compete if you don't have elite talent pipelines? It's hard. The government decides they're going to concentrate a lot of their very limited educational resources into a small number of designated schools across the country, and they're going to skim from the top of every class. So this is why you have a pre... You have a high school entrance exam. That's why. Because like in America, that doesn't make sense because it's like, wait, what do you mean? You go either private or public, and public is based off your zip code, which there's already a lot of inequality there. But in China, now you have to take a test to get into the high school, and the high schools are ranked. So they take, skim the top of everyone in the country and throw them into the Key Point High Schools.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  And that's to elevate them to become the elite talent pipeline. They still have to study really hard to get admitted into the colleges because now you're competing against everyone at all the other Key Point High Schools in the country. The government actually renamed it to Model High School because Key Point High School seemed a little rough on the ears, politically speaking. So they renamed it recently, but it seems like no one really calls it that.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 29:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  They renamed it.

• 29:25Speaker 00

  Chen's sister places really well in the high school admissions test. She gets admitted into one of the province's Key Point High Schools. This is huge, especially for students with lower-income families that don't have a bunch of tutors. It's like nearly impossible, but because of the Key Point High School she gets into, it's a boarding school. Yeah, she has to board. They don't have, they don't have the fee for boarding and transportation to and from the school. Also, like the food she has to eat, like everything is gonna add up. The family could maybe do it, but then they would have nothing in three years when Chen takes his high school admissions exam. And they also think he's gonna get into a key point in high school. So the family, it is said that they told the older sister, you do what you wanna do and we're gonna support any decision.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  But she knows, she knows what that means. Okay, everyone knows what that means. She doesn't go to high school. Yeah. She drops out after middle school, gets into odd jobs, um, working on farms, restaurants, factory work. And then three years later, it's Chen's turn. He does get into a key point in high school and it is funded, a lot of the boarding costs are funded by his parents and his sister. And then with college, it's also funded by his sister and his parents. It would be justified if Chen's sister showed a lot of resentment for all of this, but she never does. And maybe she genuinely never felt it because it is reported that Chen showed a lot of gratitude. He was always showing how appreciative he is towards his sister. So maybe that eased any potential resentment or tension.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  She worked, put in through university. He ends up at NPU, which it's like a military industrial university. There's a total of seven universities that are called seven sons of national defense in China. Mainly because those seven universities, so all the other universities, they report to the Ministry of Education. But NPU and the other six universities, they report to the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Really?

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  And they're, they're good?

• 31:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're very good, beca- but a lot of their major focus is like

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Like mi- military?

• 31:30Speaker 00

  Military defense, lots of like aerial sciences, lots of um, weapons, research. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which he could only attend the school with his parents and his sister helping for the tuition. He doesn't take it lightly. He said, it's said during the first four years, Chen holds himself to such high standards that he only did four things. Eat, sleep, walk to and from his room to the library and to class and study. That's it. Eat, sleep, transport and school. That's it. Nothing else. Basically, everything was just keeping him alive and everything was just studying. He consistently ranked in the top of his class in the university to the point where most students have to apply and take another test

• 32:12Speaker 00

  to attend grad school. But Chen was admitted, offered a spot without taking a test. He didn't even need to apply. Which again, he wouldn't be if he was working and studying, but he's just studying and he feels like a lot of this is due to his sister. And grad school, he still has to pay for it. He gets a master's degree in image processing from the Department of Automatic Control and his sister helps pay for it. Now essentially, image processing, the foundational technology is for guided weapons, drone perception, aerial reconnaissance, surveillance. It's very like um, defense engineering pipeline degree, which kind of fits NPU. That's what they're known for. From there, he gets into CASIA, which is like the Chinese, that's where they do the AI, you know, stuff.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  And then Tsinghua, then Cold Springs Lab in the US. And while he's doing that, Chen's sister goes from sending money over to pay for all of his education to now, now that he doesn't need the help and he's getting paid, now she's um, back in their hometown, taking care of their elderly aging parents. Since Chen clearly doesn't have the time, he's also in the United States, he has a demanding job and now he has a wife and two kids. And the promise, like the unspoken promise, nobody says it outright, but the unspoken promise, whether it, you know, is that the sister is going to do all of this and Chen will do everything he can to help his sister later in life whenever she asks.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  And again, Chen does really, really, really well in his field. He's been granted a US green card based off his outstanding contributions to science. And then later he gets a US citizenship. They purchase a house in Boston. He's even offered a position at, again, CASIA, the Chinese Academy of Sciences. This is like the highest academic institution in the sector that he's working in. It's like the most prestigious. They collaborate closely with the government. They're the ones that helped create China's own um, Bei Dou navigation satellite system. Because, you know, um, US sanctions, so China had to build its own like space station. They had to build like their own navigations. It's crazy, okay? And they're the ones that mainly did it.

• 34:14Speaker 00

  And so he gets this opportunity to go research there at this level and it's huge, it's huge. So he's like, okay, I wanna go back. I wanna go there and do this. But his wife Michelle is like, well, no, I don't wanna go to China. So we're not gonna go there so you can do research that you could maybe probably do here? So just figure out a way to do it here. Anyway, after the affair. Originally, the plan is for everybody's sake to keep the entire affair a secret. Chen and Michelle are gonna get divorced, but they can get like some generic reason about schedules. He's in China. Yep, maybe there's probably going to be rumors that he has like a mistress in China cuz that's usually what happens when these very vague reasons for divorce come out in their circles.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  But they could just say, no, our schedules were not matching up. It just didn't make sense. We were not seeing each other. We're not seeing eye to eye. As for Cohen, I mean, he's already in college. It's natural. He's drifting away from his uncle and aunt. He's making his own friends. So it's not like he has to call his sister and be like, oh yeah, Cohen did this today. Cohen hung out with me today. So they're already living separate lives. So the whole plan is not even to tell Cohen's mom about what happened. Just tell nobody.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  They haven't, okay, I see.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  That's the original plan. But Cohen starts telling his mom what happened. He shares his version of events, whether it be the truth, it's hard to say, we'll break it down in a second. But he tells his mom back in China that his aunt, Chen's wife, seduced him. And they were intimate for a while, but he was so lonely. He didn't even really know what was happening. It's like hard to understand. And she manipulated him into this really, really inappropriate affair. And when Chen found out, you know, his uncle found out, instead of protecting him, he throws Cohen out of the house, leaving him practically stranded in the United States with nobody he can reach out to, nobody to look after him. And like, sure, he's a college kid, but still like this, this is his only link to an adult who might be able to help him.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  He's only been in the States for a few years. And now, now on top of that mom, Chen is threatening to get a restraining order out on me. And Cohen is like, all I wanted to do was talk to my uncle about what happened and apologize and explain my side of the events. But Chen is so hot tempered, so upset, so jealous, so resentful, he threw me out of the house without hearing me out and told me that this is trespassing and he's gonna get a restraining order. With everyone finding out in the family about the real reason for the divorce, Chen is feeling probably humiliated. But also, there is this new pressure put on him from his sister. She's upset because then at least the least you can do, her theory is like the least you can do is help my son get a green card.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  By marrying the aunt?

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I guess her like thought process is, this is a woman who is thirty nine, took advantage of my son, who is eighteen, went into this new country where he knows nobody. His entire life is now inside of this box, which is probably his room inside of Chen's family house. And she is the adult, she's the one making decisions and she seduces him. She takes advantage of this. Ruins his life, ruins the entire family relations. And of course, Chen divorces her. So the least she can do for basically repentance is to marry my son, give him a green card. Like this is what he should get out of the trauma, at least. Is kind of like her thought process in the theory.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  And, but she's mad cuz she's like, okay, brother, not only are you letting your ex-wife not marry my son, because that's the least she can do after taking advantage of him, because that's from her perspective.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Oh, so she brought it up to Chen and Chen say no?

• 37:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. And on top of that, she's like, now you're trying to get a restraining order against my son? Which again, jeopardizes his chances of getting a visa or green card the more appropriate way through work after he graduates because he's on a student visa. And that's so much harder also to get like an H one B visa. It's so difficult. From her perspective, she did everything from her brother and this is how he repays her for her one and only son. She repeatedly calls Chen, telling him that, you know, Cohen is young. He's clearly been used and seduced by your ex-wife. Yes, he acted foolishly, but now that it's all said and done, the least you guys can do is get him the green card. It is unclear if this version of events is true, though I can see how it is highly possible, okay?

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Considering Michelle is the one in the position of power in this situation and I will stand on that. I tend to agree that she's mostly the one at fault. I get that Cohen is nineteen. I get that the affair started after he was eighteen. But he's in a very vulnerable situation where he's coming into a brand new place, moving to a whole new country. He doesn't speak the language. He has no support system. He thinks he's being taken care of in this home. I can see how he is the most vulnerable in this situation. Though I do see some netizens saying, Michelle might have been vulnerable because, you know, she's in a marriage where her husband is never home. She's left alone with the kids. Her entire identity is just being alone and raising the family without her husband. That's just speculation of what people think Michelle was going through.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  However, um, Michelle is also the one that reportedly wanted Chen to work in China a lot. It's been reported that she was not enthusiastic of a research opportunity that Chen received in China, that he was really excited for. But she was enthusiastic of a lucrative business idea that he wanted to start a company in China. So some people are putting the blame on her and it's like, well, it's kind of your fault that he's not home because you wanted him to go start this company instead of just being satisfied with his research roles where he is probably doing greater good for humankind and society, trying to find ways to prevent cancer, even if it is using technology that people may not agree with. He might ultimately net neutral, like be saving lives at least.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  So there is that, that people are like, well, he didn't really have to be in China all the time. So that doesn't make any sense. Or if you really wanted, you can move to China with the kids. But regardless, there's a lot of back and forth, but I would say wholeheartedly out of the two, Michelle and Cohen, it's pretty clear the one who bears more responsibility, at least for the start and the continuation of the affair is Michelle. She's 20 years older than Cohen, double his age. She's supposed to be his caretaker in the US, even though he is an adult, but still. However, there are new theories that have come out kind of out of nowhere. There's stories coming out that perhaps Cohen is the mastermind of this affair. Mainly, this is stemming from online forums with netizens who claimed

• 40:34Speaker 00

  they went to high school with Cohen. One particularly well circulating post, the netizen who claims to know Cohen says he is highly manipulative, that during his high school years in China, he just jumped from one girlfriend to another to another, which is not inherently a bad thing. However, they believe that he was manipulating and using his girlfriends. They claimed that Cohen had a whole group of guys in high school that looked up to him because they all wanted to be PUAs, pickup artists.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, but in Chinese context, it's like basically you're

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Gaslight manipulator.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not like a

• 41:08Speaker 01

  To get, yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Get different girls. Like lying, scheming and cheating is not below a PUA. It's, it's, it has a very strong negative connotation, probably worse than America. And they said that Cohen would have let, this is an allegation that's coming from like a random netizen post, that he would film himself having intimate relations with girls and share it amongst the group of guys who also aspired to be PUAs. But I don't know if this is true at all, or if he just like would talk a big game because he's a high schooler. And I think the only part that would be really alarming is if these videos were shared without anyone's consent or taken without anyone's consent. Also, there are minors at that point. So that's already concerning. However, I don't know how true this post is. I mean, there's really

• 41:53Speaker 00

  no verification process for this. There's no way to authenticate it, but it has since gone viral in China, which is why a lot of Chinese netizens have kind of bought into this theory that maybe Michelle is not the one that started the affair. Not that they like Michelle. It seems most netizens don't like her, but maybe she's not the one that started the affair. Again, I don't know how true that is. I still think Michelle should have known better, but. The theory goes on in China that Michelle was not a fan of Cohen when he first got to the US. She was really annoyed that she has this task of taking on, you know, a full grown teenager that she's not even personally related to other than by marriage. He's a burden. She's probably not treating him the nicest. And the netizens theorize that Cohen, seeing this, feeling this, he decides instead of being upset and

• 42:37Speaker 00

  treating her the same way, he's just gonna woo her. He starts changing his attitude, showering her with compliments, not thinking it was probably gonna lead to an affair, that it was just gonna make her be nice to him. But things snowball into an affair. Who's the one that should have stopped it? Probably Michelle. You get the idea. People are spread. It's a lot. Others have been spreading even more bizarre theories online stating that Cohen had a plan to come to the US. He knew that his uncle and aunt had a strained relationship because his mom would talk about it. That's an allegation. That's like a huge speculate. It's a rumor. It's not even an allegation. It's a fucking rumor. That he just wanted to break up the parents so he could get his aunt, marry for a green card. Now, I will say there's a little bit more nuance to this. I know everyone's like, oh, that's like

• 43:21Speaker 00

  a huge theory for Chinese netizens to come up with. Like, why would he marry his aunt for a green card? It is a very tricky situation. So when Chinese students come into the United States to study, they all come on a student visa. And getting a green card or getting citizenship is notoriously difficult of really anyone of any nationality when they come into the United States. Obviously, like we see it on the news all the time. But with Chinese students, it's especially difficult because the people that they typically socialize with and form relationships, interpersonal relationships, and therefore maybe future marriages are also Chinese students who are more immersed in Chinese culture versus like Chinese Americans who might be American citizens, right? Or are American citizens.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  And so if they find each other, you kind of get these situations where you have now a couple in the US and they're both hoping that they can separately get H1B visas, or at least one of them can and the other one can try to stay.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  H1B is work visa, right?

• 44:20Speaker 00

  Yes, which are very difficult and you have to have specialized skills in the industry. And a lot of the industries that they're going into, such as tech, such as, you know, it's just like a very overpopulated industry of people trying to get H1B visas. Unless you're phenomenal at your job, it's going to be very difficult. And even if you are phenomenal at your job, it gives you a really limited sense of mobility because if you're an American citizen, you could work at Meta today and then Amazon tomorrow because they pay you more. But then you're kind of locked into a company for a very long time until you can find a way to get a different visa that's not dependent on your work. It's just,

• 45:00Speaker 00

  it's really hard. It's a really lengthy process. Visas are a huge deal to the point where, ah, I believe, because I was like talking to the Chinese researcher about it and she was saying like, even if you like go on dating websites in China, like in the US as a Chinese person, a lot of the Chinese students will indicate on their dating profile if they have a visa or if they don't.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:24Speaker 00

  It changes the whole like factor of the relationship. So it's like a huge deal. So this is not just like a, let me marry my aunt and do something crazy for giggles. It's like a, maybe some people can wrap their minds around why he would do something. Not saying he did, but why this rumor gained legs and started running around. He would also be able to secure permanent residency from that point if he were to marry someone with US citizenship. I don't know if that's the case. There's a lot of back and forth of rumors here. Technically, he is studying computer science at Northeastern University. He could technically apply for an H1B visa. Um, you know, again, difficulty. It's, Northeastern is not a top 10 school. It is ranked top 50 in the United States. It's an incredible

• 46:09Speaker 00

  university. Okay. It's, it's a good school. It's just like visas are fucking hard. I don't know what else to say. It's just so difficult. He may have a relatively okay chance at securing a visa, but eh, it's not guaranteed. So the only way to guarantee a visa is to marry a US citizen. However, he goes to Northeastern. A lot of the girls that he probably would date are probably fellow Chinese students who are also trying to secure a visa. And then with Chinese Americans or even Americans of different cultures, there, it's not going to be as easy to mesh and click and try to, because I don't know how proficient he is at English. It didn't seem like he had that much struggles, but you get what I'm saying.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:49Speaker 00

  So maybe the easiest way would be to marry his aunt on paper for a few years.

• 46:58Speaker 00

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• 49:06Speaker 00

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• 50:18Speaker 00

  Another theory is that Chen's older sister was never resentful of being Voldemort out loud, but maybe she expressed it to her son and in the privacy of her own nuclear family in it. So maybe she talked about it all the time with her brother and in front of her son Cohen, or maybe she said things like, oh yeah, my brother got into Harvard at the Department of Statistics, but it's all because of me. He wouldn't have been able to do it without me because I paid his way through college. So perhaps she felt like he was living the life that she was owed and Cohen soaking in all of these statements throughout his years of development. He decided that his uncle really just owes him things is what a lot of Chinese netizens suspect. And this is coming from, I think, a lot of

• 51:01Speaker 00

  cultural nuance that they probably have in this case that we don't have as much in the United States. So they're saying like, we've seen situations like this where sisters will openly talk about it in front of their kids, talk about their uncles and say these types of things, or they feel like they need to be repaid. So maybe for that reason, they felt it was entirely reasonable for Michelle to marry Cohen for the green card. But again, these are just internet theories and rumors. There's really nothing that we can be certain about. And Cohen is no longer here to defend himself against such rumors and allegations, which makes the waters much murkier here. But one of Cohen's old roommates has done a few interviews where he states, at least from his perspective, he thought Cohen was scared of his uncle. Yeah, he says Cohen was telling him that he's scared that

• 51:45Speaker 00

  his uncle is gonna break in one day and kill him. And obviously, the roommate is like, I also live here, so now I'm scared too.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  This is after the affair?

• 51:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  That uncle found out?

• 51:55Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. So the roommate is like, but you know, at the end of the day, I felt like it was him being paranoid. And maybe Chen's resume played a role into it because I also think like, subconsciously, I'd be like, he's trying to like, he's studying cell biology for cancer. Like, maybe he's not gonna kill you. Like, I don't know. For the affair itself, there are people who blame Michelle and only Michelle. There are people who blame Cohen and only Cohen. And then there are people, probably the majority of people who feel like it's just probably all around a tricky situation, mainly falling on Michelle, but also is Cohen as innocent as people think he is innocent in the ethical and moral sense, not in the

• 52:36Speaker 00

  illegal criminal sense. Because after all of this, after the affair is found out by Chen, and Cohen goes back to his dorm, it said that he would, um, he would show up to the house a lot.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Whose house?

• 52:52Speaker 00

  Chen and Michelle's house.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Who's living there right now?

• 52:55Speaker 00

  So Chen ends up moving back in because of this. So when it was just Michelle and the kids, it said that Cohen would show up a lot and like trespass onto their property, trying to talk to Michelle. He allegedly would also nonstop send messages to Michelle. He would show up to the church that she goes to. He says that he just wants to talk to her and just talk, that's it. But the messages he sends are far more threatening than just talking. He tells her that he's going to kill her entire family.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  What?

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's like, not just I'm gonna kill your entire family. It's like, if I'm not gonna kill your entire family, I'm going to self-exit. So I'm not entirely sure what the energy of that type of text messages, but it's not.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Either or?

• 53:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, either or.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Either I'm gonna kill you all, or I'm gonna kill myself, basically.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. So this is very alarming for Chen. And that is when he ends up moving back into the family house. He's not trying to get back together with Michelle. So this is not like a let's try again type of thing. It's more like, hey, my kids are in here. So I'm scared for my kids.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  That's why he had the restraining order, right?

• 53:56Speaker 00

  Yes. So he ends up getting a restraining order. And they end up drawing the line for this restraining order. So it seems like there were multiple incidences where they didn't think it was far enough to get a restraining order, but they finally do it once Cohen allegedly shows up at the children's elementary school, waiting for Michelle to come pick them up so that he can catch Michelle and talk to Michelle. So there are allegations that Cohen would show up to the house and just like peer through the windows until they would open up, which they would never open the door. Just a lot, a lot. Um, it's also said that Cohen started demanding that his uncle Chen find him someone to marry. If Michelle is not gonna marry him, the least you can do is get me a green card, or else I'm going to tell everyone online about what happened.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Where's that report coming from?

• 54:39Speaker 00

  From what they alleged happened in order to get this restraining order.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  This is directly from Chen, reported to the police?

• 54:46Speaker 00

  No, so he's reporting it to his attorney and the attorney is summarizing this for the judge. However, there is text message evidence, but in terms of like, we did try to FOI at this case, it's still pending, so they didn't give us any files. But um, I don't know if we have the exact evidence for that. But this is what he told his attorney and the attorney told the judge. And a restraining order was granted.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 55:13Speaker 00

  So he's saying that I just want permanent residency, find me someone to marry. And Chen is like, okay, I'm not someone who runs in those circles. I'm sure there are people out there who will find someone who would arrange an illegal and unethical deal where you pay money and marry someone for a green card, right? But he doesn't know these people. And also, he thinks, what nerve does Cohen have to not like, what leg do you have to stand on to make these demands after everything that's transpired? Like, maybe he could make these demands to Michelle, but to Chen, he feels like this is kind of crazy. It's also been reported that in one heated confrontation, Cohen beat up Chen and put him in a headlock. It's unclear if this happened. It's unclear if Chen attacked him first. Everything is kind of unclear. But it seems that, it seems like there was definitely something going

• 55:56Speaker 00

  on. Chen and Michelle end up filing a restraining order against Cohen in late 2020. And one of the screenshots of the threatening messages sent to Michelle from Cohen was submitted as evidence. He's texting his aunt saying things like, if I don't kill your entire family, I'm gonna self-exit. Great, this is just too fucking amazing. My future has been ruined by you. You ruined everything for me. She goes, ruined by me? And he responds, now I'm the walking dead with zero dignity left. In 2020, the court not only issues a restraining order, but because of the threats of self-exit in the messages, um, that's a cause for concern for the courts. They decide to hospitalized Cohen and put him on a self-exit watch for a few days, which does not make Cohen feel better about his

• 56:39Speaker 00

  uncle and aunt. After the restraining order is filed, it's said that Cohen felt even more wronged by the whole hospital stint, everything, because all of these things are probably going to, they're not gonna help his chances of getting a green card. Cause you know, these are all gonna be in probably the, I don't know how much of the hospitalization stay will be. I don't know if it would be recorded as just he was hospitalized, because he was sectioned for it. So it is, you know, but I don't know if like, I don't think they're gonna get reports because that's a HIPAA violation, but I think it would probably show up. And so any violation of this restraining order would result in a criminal record, which would ruin any and all chance he would have at applying for a visa or green card

• 57:18Speaker 00

  in the near future. So with all of that going on, Chen's dad passes away. So in the midst of all of this, Chen's dad passes away. Just, yeah. And then it's just their mother left. And with nothing left to argue about, Chen's sister allegedly threatens Chen, if you don't help my son get a green card, I'm gonna abandon our mother. I'm gonna leave her. Like, I'm just not gonna take care of her. What are you gonna do? You're barely in our hometown. When you come to China, you're like working in the big city. What are you gonna do? Like, all of that is gonna be on you. It is said that under all of this alleged pressure, Chen's mental state starts crumbling. The only mental protection he has is knowing that Cohen, the only thing he cares most about is staying in the United States. So he's not going to

• 57:59Speaker 00

  break that restraining order as long as it's in place. The order is only valid for one and a half years, and the court will then have to decide whether or not they need to extend it. For the one and a half years that it is in place, Chen's life is a living hell from the constant pressures. But still, this is kind of his only saving grace. His company in China is suffering because of his frequent absences. He's stressed nonstop about his kid's safety. He's trapped in this house with his ex-wife. And it's just, he has to face and confront the affair every day because again, it happened in the house. And I was actually on Reddit and a lot of people who have been, whose partners have had affairs

• 58:38Speaker 00

  say, it's actually so detrimental to find them in the house. Like, they're saying, they think the trauma of the affair would be slashed in half had it never taken place in the house. Because it's like such your safe space that now feels so dirty. And they say that everything, every room reminds you of the affair. And so I wonder if that did something to his psyche? Not that I, it would excuse anything, but.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  On top of that.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  On your families.

• 59:07Speaker 00

  And so his very stable envy inducing life, where his work is actually producing some sort of hopefully net positive purpose for humankind is just gone.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  April 7th, 2022, they're at Cambridge District Court in Medford, Massachusetts, to attend a hearing on whether or not they should extend the restraining order against Cohen. During the restraining order, Chen says, "He strangled me, physically attacked me, went to elementary school to find my child without permission, attempted to enter my house on several occasions, would show up unannounced late at night and just hide, lingering outside the windows." Cohen was there, he testified before the judge, and he says, "I think it's a good time for both the parties to move on. I think for me, I have been like working very hard on myself. I've totally moved on on this matter, and I even moved away from where I lived previously. I live with my church friends now." Ultimately, the judge states that they did not see any grounds on extending the restraining order.

• 1:00:03Speaker 00

  The judge states, "With the defendant having moved, it seems that the likelihood that they're going to encounter each other in their everyday lives is much diminished. I haven't seen a significant change in the circumstances or the need for the order." With the restraining order being lifted, this meant that there is no longer any restriction on Cohen coming near them, near their property, contacting them, going to their children's schools. Their session was the last session in court that day. Some people speculate that the judge just wanted to get out of there. That's a huge speculation, but after the last session, everyone is slowly leaving the courthouse. As they're leaving, William Barbino, who is Chen's attorney, is, you know, making sure Chen is okay, and he's thanking his attorney, and Chen's like, "I'll be fine." And he's like, "Thank you, thank you, like, I'm just gonna go home." Michelle is not there, by the way.

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  So Chen, he exits the courthouse, walks towards the parking lot, gets to his car, and he's clearly not fine, because he steps into the parking lot and he makes eye contact with Cohen. And it's said that in that moment, something happens. It's hard to say what, but people think that maybe he looked at Cohen and saw something in his eyes that indicated like a promise of like, "I'm gonna keep harassing you." But maybe it was a snarky look. Maybe it was nothing. Maybe he looked at the back of Cohen's head and was like, "No, I can't do this." I don't know. We, like, genuine, there's no way of knowing what went on in his mind at that moment, but he decides to ram his car into Cohen,

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  and then get out the car and shoot him.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Oh, so he brought a gun, though?

• 1:01:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, but he does have a license to carry.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, a concealed carry permit, I believe.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  There would be a huge argument, is it premeditated versus?

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a huge thing right now. So the fact that he has that permit makes it harder to prove premeditation. I think even, you know, even to argue it's a crime of passion is difficult. Some would say it would perhaps be more applicable if he had killed him in bed when he found the affair. But I would say that this is actually a pretty solid argument that could have a back and forth of crime of passion, because it is after the restraining order was denied, and his safety, he feels like he needs to protect some sort of safety for himself, his ex-wife and his kids, maybe, perhaps, could be an argument. I'm not entirely sure, but he does get into the car, ram into Cohen's body, and shoots him five to six times. And 23-year-old Cohen is killed.

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  Chen's attorney says, "He thought he heard construction noises, like the ramming of the car, and he went outside, and that's when he realized, he said, 'I went in.'" He sees Chen with the gun, so he's like, "I just, I went in. I just kind of put my knee on his back." So he sees the police, he sees that that's his client. He's like, "I mean, I would assume that the police want my client, okay? Want to restrain him." So he's like, "I just went in, put my knee on his back, kind of rubbed his back a little bit, just kind of comforting him, I guess."

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Wait, so he went in, the cops were standing by just watching with their gun?

• 1:02:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think they were trying to assess how...

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  How to approach?

• 1:02:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  The attorney just charged?

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't think he charged, but more so like, you know, was like approaching calmly, so that he didn't startle Chen. And then he just put him on the ground. Chen went down without a fight. And he said, "I just kind of looked over there, and there was a dead body and my client here, and I knew the police would want to have him, so just kind of held him there." He says about the restraining order and this whole situation, he says, "It's really sad. I mean, Chen was so gentle. Chen was so kind. He didn't have any history of violence. He never had a restraining order against him. He never had any allegations of physical abuse. He grew up in China originally. He got his PhD there. It was in statistics. I mean, he's a bright guy. He was basically number one in all of his scholastics, all his education.

• 1:03:46Speaker 00

  Then he went over to postdoc at Harvard in statistics. He has two children. I know he loves his children very much. There's gonna be two children at home who do not have a dad, if in fact he's the killer, which, you know, he's a lawyer, so he has to say that." And he goes to the jail for the rest of his life. He was very kind and pleasant and timely and decent, and just like the type of guy you always want working next to you. You know what I mean? I mean, it's emotional, it's powerful stuff. It just really affected him, apparently, more than I could see. I knew it affected him clearly, but it affected him obviously a great deal. The DA states, "We know the restraining order was not renewed. We don't know if that was the reason for whatever happened outside the courthouse." He was arrested, he was denied bail. And it's going to be very interesting,

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  considering a lot of the public sentiment actually seems to be in favor of Chen. A lot of people also have this...

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  It's ongoing still?

• 1:04:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, so he, and it's just very messy. I think a lot of the public sentiment comes from clearly his resume, clearly his track record of no criminal history, and his resume of doing such high-level research in fields that, again, could probably ultimately end up helping people, and his very docile demeanor. And further, I think a lot of people have frustration on the restraining order process in the United States of how it's almost like never, never given out, how it's never really upheld, how the police don't really care until the restraining order is broken, which at that point, like, where is the harm done? Probably everywhere. So a lot of people, they side with Chen.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  They think that he actually was someone who was driven into madness by relentless pressure by everyone around him. One person says, "I really sympathize with Dr. Chen. Hope he receives a lenient sentence so he can return to a peaceful life." Others, you know, think that he should, what he was doing for humans was probably way more important, so they think like, "We should just let him out." They're like, "He's not like a spree killer. He's probably not gonna go out and like randomly kill another person." Not that he killed, you know? Others say, "Well, he's gotta lay in his bed. He made it, he's gotta lay in his bed." They think that Chen's biggest mistake was, quote, "He married the wrong woman and ruined his entire life." Others lament on the fact that Chen could have actually done a big service to society,

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  saying, "This is so sad. I truly feel sorry for him. He could have had a brilliant future." Others blame the court, saying, "The court refused to extend the restraining order to his nephew. The court implicitly made this happen." Others say, "Bless this guy. He was just trying to protect his family against his crazy relative." During the arraignment, he was in court. He looks, I mean, he bears like zero resemblance to the Chen everyone knew. He looks like he's having a full mental breakdown. He looks disheveled. He looks like, I don't think he was, but he looks like he's been sedated. He looks like he's been dragged into court. Like, his hair is a mess. He is kind of in like a hospital gown, so I don't know if he's been sedated, but it looks like he could have been. He has pled not guilty to murder and armed assault. The judge ordered Chen be held without bail.

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  Michelle was present in the courtroom. She was visibly distraught. She did wave goodbye to him as he was being taken away. So it is going to be interesting. Now, he has a new attorney, because this is now a very serious criminal case, and his new attorney has stated, "My client was seeking a restraining order against the person that is now being described as the victim. There is a lot of investigation that has to happen to understand who and why things happened the way they did." Chen has gone from a very well-respected cancer researcher to now being on trial for murder. What are your thoughts on this case?

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  What about his sister?

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  There was a, in 2025, a wrongful death suit filed on behalf of Cohen's estate. So I would imagine his mother is heavily involved in that against Chen, and it has been settled. It has been like, just, yeah. So it doesn't seem like it's settled. I don't think that there was any exchange of any payment or damages paid. It's just been dropped. Yeah.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Wow, this is, man.

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, but I think maybe the trial will be enlightening in the sense we can actually get some real answers. I do think that there is a huge role that Michelle played in all of this. I think there are really only just rumors of how much of a role Cohen played. I think it would be interesting to see all of the evidence come out of whether or not he was extensively stalking them, because there are some rumors on Chinese social media of people saying, "Maybe this was Michelle trying to lure her husband, ex-husband back by creating this, like, I guess, potential threat to safety." So there's, you know, like, I guess, questions of how scary was,

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  was this restraining order against Cohen even as scary as people think it is? Like, I guess there's that rumor. So we don't know, and I think that is, it's gonna be a huge point of contention. What are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments. Be safe, and I will see you in the next one.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

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