"There's Evil Working Against Me, I'm the 3rd Victim" Mackenzie’s Jail Calls Released

Some of the best advice you’ll ever hear is simple: don’t go to prison. But sometimes, it’s unavoidable. If you do, the Ohio Reformatory for Women in Marysville isn’t what you’d expect, more like a college campus than a prison. Programs, classes, even freedom to move during three daily yard times. Yard time is where everything happens, fresh air, social life, information. It’s where people start whispering about the show they just saw. The one about 17-year-old Mackenzie Shirilla. The same Mackenzie walking the yard, full face of makeup, hair done, curls set, gems in her hair. That one? Killed two people. And now, one former inmate says, She’s in the bathroom getting trains run on her… Davion Flanagan Memorial Scholarship Fund Change the Game for Dom Foundation Petition · "Dom and Davion's Law" - Victims Before Influencers: Modernize Son of Sam Laws - United States · Change.org Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Twenty years after Natalie Holloway disappeared on a high school graduation trip to Aruba, Natalie's mother Beth is ready to tell the complete story. Taken: Natalie Holloway is a three-part series that follows Beth's relentless pursuit of answers and justice for her daughter and gives a fuller picture of who Natalie was as a person. It's the definitive account of a case that gripped multiple nations and never let go. Watch Taken: Natalie Holloway, November 4th, only on Netflix. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like showing up for movie night, ready for a heart-pounding thriller, but getting a three-hour documentary on lawn care. That's kind of like insurance. Insurance may all seem the same on the surface, but when it comes to getting the help you

• 0:44Speaker 00

  need, State Farm is the real deal. You wouldn't settle for a snooze fest when you came for a thrill ride. So don't settle for just any insurance when there's State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  Welcome to the second half of Part Four. In the first half of Part Four, we went through a lot of the jail calls that have been going viral of seventeen-year-old Mackenzie Shirilla talking to her parents while she's sitting in jail, while she's sitting in prison, awaiting trial for murder, then being convicted. It's just a mess. She wants Kim Kardashian to represent her and set her free. And in this half, we're going to be going through the trial, as well as Mackenzie Shirilla's reaction to the verdict in a phone call that she had with her mom. So with that being said, the Shirillas believe the judge overseeing Mackenzie's case is corrupt. At least that's what they've been alluding to nonstop. They believe that there's something going on between Don Russo's family and Judge Russo. Which, side note, a few things, okay? They do share the same last name.

• 1:43Speaker 00

  Does not mean that they are related. They are not related. That has been proven. And another thing, Christine Russo, Don's mother, did in fact work for the DA's office, but that again doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's not like she's currently working for the DA's office, and there's nothing to prove any sort of nefarious connection that would have impacted the trial. The main things I keep hearing from the Shirillas is that the investigators didn't hand over some interviews during Discovery, which allegedly has Don's mom and brother talking about... Mackenzie's medical condition pots, which I did hear in one interview. Dom's mom says that Mackenzie started bringing it up after the crash. And she felt like it was trying to plant seeds. But let's say this is true, maybe they're sitting there and being like, oh yeah, I saw her faint all the time. I saw her pass out all the time, right?

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Like just for hypotheticals, let's say that's true. Even if they said that, I don't know how that changes anything as it pertains to the trial. Like I said, you can have pots and drive safely. You can have pots and kill people in a car crash. It was up to them to bring in a pots expert, a medical expert to prove that she indeed did have some sort of accident relating to pots. It's not up to Dom's mom. It's like, it's not Dom's mom's opinion. So I just don't know where this correlation is, but they're kind of alluding to like some sort of corruption behind the scenes. Aside from that, I do think that if they really did not receive certain key things in discovery that were necessary to their defense, that would be a big, big problem. Like there are strict laws for discovery and

• 3:09Speaker 00

  that just doesn't seem to be the basis of their appeal, or at least not the main one. And it's just not something that they bring up all the time. It's just in interviews. I would imagine that's a huge thing. And the second thing is they bring up frequently in interviews is that they believe that there's some sort of corruption or bribery happening. In one interview, the interviewer says to Mackenzie's dad, Steve. The interviewer says, you know, I was trying to explain that having the last name Russo in this county is like having the last name Kennedy in Boston.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  I just don't know if that's like a really good comparison because the Kennedy, like that is a globally known last name with a lot of power behind it, especially in the political world. But it's just kind of odd to which Steve looks really smug and he responds, mm hmm, there might be some truth to that. Like I said, this is a political family and I apologize to the Flanagan family right now. If it was just Davion in that car, she wouldn't be in jail.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  It would have never left the juvenile court. This has to do with the boy's last name and the judge saying, well, I don't have a blood relationship. Look, I'm not saying she has a blood relationship. I'm saying she has relationship with the Russo family and he, you know, even saying that in court, if you're gonna believe like she doesn't have a relationship, you're fooling yourself. I'm not saying it's directly with Christine Russo, but you know, down the road here, but it's with somebody. Christine Russo was part of the prosecutor's office at one point, and I believe she's friends with Tim Troop. I think they were in the office together. Steve is asked, why do you think they went so hard against her? There's the part where maybe I'll get myself into trouble. Let's try to avoid. I think there's some collusion going on. I think it's a fix. I think it's a favor. The last name Russo in this town?

• 4:49Speaker 00

  I just, and I understand that lots of conspiratorial things do end up being true. And I think at face value, the criminal justice system in America has a lot of deep flaws. But the way they make it seem like she is a scientist curing cancer and we gotta take her down. Like it's, it's, it's kind of this weird energy. Before the conviction, Mackenzie is talking to her mom about how she feels about this whole thing. And she says, I understand that I'm gonna have to do some time. I obviously would rather not. I feel like I shouldn't do any, but that's how it's gonna, you know, this is the situation. That is what will make the families happy. But murder? That's just horrible. Natalie agrees. Nope, nope, nope. So we're just going to go fight, fight, fight, fight. A gun's a blazing.

• 5:35Speaker 00

  Mackenzie tells her, I'm so for real. Contact who I told you to contact, like that famous person. I think she's talking about Kim Kardashian again. Oh, I know. I, I'm on it. Mackenzie thinks that they should organize some sort of event for her, but you can get like a protest going on and shit like, yeah, I'm dead ass serious, like a whole ass protest. Natalie tells her they will keep fighting, but I hope it doesn't go that route because that would be ridiculous. Mackenzie says, yes. And honestly, if the judge does that, I'm just gonna know that she has some weird ass shit going on, like bribery or something. That's all I can think of. I guess Mackenzie wants her mom to get someone famous, maybe Kim Kardashian, then organize some sort of protest in the off chance that the judge does find Mackenzie guilty of murder, which she thinks is unfathomable,

• 6:20Speaker 00

  unless there's some sort of corruption. And in another call, Mackenzie wonders, so clearly the judge just wants to speed this process up as fast as she can and get it out of her hand. And like, this is a very common thing. Judges do have a schedule. They do want speedy trials. Right? So like, this is nothing new. I wonder how much money she made from this.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  The judge?

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what she says. They need to look for like deposits or some shit or cash, some weird shit. They probably gave her the cash that like Dom had. Kenzie, we're not talking about anything, remember? I don't even know what you're talking about, so just stop. And again, I think her mom is just saving for the fact that this is a recorded line. And one call with a friend, Mackenzie is talking about how she's gonna be on the news and the verdict is gonna come out, which her friend says, and like, her friends are crazy too. Why are they so obsessed with you? You've gotten in a fucking car accident. I've gotten in like three of those. It's probably because my boyfriend's last name is Russo and his family is just trying to do some weird shit. I don't know. It, again, like boyfriend's last name is not Trump right now. Like it's, I did look into it, okay?

• 7:25Speaker 00

  And there are lots of people with the name Russo. And there are lots of people in politics or in the legal field with the last name Russo. But also, there's lots of Koreans with the last name Lee. Are they related to Samsung? Probably not. Are they bribing people in court? Probably not. They're probably just a regular person with the same last name. She says, like, I would understand if they gave me like a normal charge, but like the charges that they gave me are like literally insane. They're trying to make it seem like something that it's not. It's not like I, I did this on purpose. I got in a car accident. I'm a third victim. There's evil working against me and I'm like, why would I be saved to live like, like they brought me back to life just to put me in jail. That just doesn't make any sense to me. So then I try to think like, damn, maybe there's something like good for me that's planned.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  Maybe this is all part of my story and I'm gonna write my book when I get out of here and shit. There's another phone call where during the trial, like I said, they were not very excited about media coverage as they are with the Kim Kardashian phone call. And Mackenzie is just ranting about like, why are people talking about me? And Natalie says, who knows? I mean, is the world that bored? Mackenzie says, "There's nothing important going on like hunger or something like that." Which is also interesting. The whole, you know, is the world really that bored is an interesting take because it feels like it's coming from the perspective of why is the world so focused on Mackenzie? When that's not the case. The world is focused on Dom and Davion being killed and it just happens to include Mackenzie purely because she's the one convicted or at least on trial at this point of killing them.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  It feels oddly self-centered. Natalie reassures her, "But there's a lot of people that are like talking and they have your back in all the comment threads too." So like, "That's kinda nice."

• 9:04Speaker 00

  Another phone call between Mackenzie and Natalie. This is like soon after the verdict is announced. The judge finds Mackenzie guilty and Mackenzie says, "I'm literally in shock. That was the last thing I expected to happen." This is probably the most emotional phone call and she sounds like very distraught. "This is just crazy. I don't understand how they could just be like, "Yeah, she wanted that to happen." "No, like they're all zooming in on my face and shit and then they're getting to like handcuffing me and shit." Mackenzie asks her mom, "Why would they keep me alive if they want me to be in jail?" "Because we don't know what your story is. Your story isn't done yet. It's just beginning, okay? We don't know yet. Who knows what the future holds for you? Who knows what the reason is, but there is a reason, okay?

• 9:46Speaker 00

  We just gotta get through this journey and it might be a minute and after time you'll see what the reason is. But I promise you, you are a force to be reckoned with in this world and people need you and people will see. You hear mama? You already done so much good in this world with so many people. Who knows what the future holds for you? Keep praying, baby, and just know that everything happens for a reason and who knows? This may have saved you from something. I don't know, but that was just craziness, but we've already begun fighting." Interestingly enough, in one phone call, Steve jumps in and he, and it seems like Steve is out of these phone calls because he literally cannot hold his tongue, which is evident through his interviews. Right? But he does jump in in one and he says, "I'm angry for you, baby. I'm just letting you know I'm angry.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  Every waking second that I'm thinking is about you. That is all I'm thinking about. I just want you to know I love you so much and I cannot believe you are being put through this. I hope karma comes back and bites everybody that's against you in the ass so hard that they will all disappear." If I had a magic wand, if I had a magic wand, I wouldn't go back. I would go back and I would help Davion first. I would just, I would just make everybody disappear." So I don't know if he's saying like he would help Davion first or if he would make everyone disappear.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 10:58Speaker 00

  He says, I click my fingers and everybody would disappear. That's what I would do. That's you know, that's how angry I am. They screwed you so bad.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  He said he wanna go back in time.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  If he had a magic wand and he says, I wouldn't go back and help Davion first.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  I wouldn't go back.

• 11:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what he says. But he's also like very like, doesn't make any sense.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  I will make everyone disappear.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I think.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  He's like, I hate everybody.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think maybe in the past, he might have, this is just me taking from this statement and trying to see what that means. Maybe he's said in the past, like, I would go back and I would first help Davion. But they're very upset about Davion's family's victim statements. So maybe he's saying, oh, after this, like, now I'm so mad.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Oh, I wouldn't go back.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  I would just make everybody disappear. It's interesting, but Mackenzie reiterates in a phone call with her mom. No, it's not, but like this time, it's like, they're saying I did it on purpose. So she's like upset that all the news is saying that she did it on purpose. And they're making the whole world know that they think that I did it on purpose. Well, when I, you know, I'm found guilty of doing it on purpose when I fucking didn't do it on purpose. I know, I know. I didn't even do it on accident. I, it wasn't even anything. I don't even fucking know what happened. What does that mean? If you didn't do it on purpose, it would have had to have been an accident. Like, I'm confused. What do you mean you did nothing? Like, how does that even make sense? You're the one driving. Even if you suffered from a medical emergency, you would still, it would still be an accident.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  It just feels like a lack of self-reflection. Mackenzie encourages her mom to make some sort of free Mackenzie Facebook page, which Rosie told us that the Shirillas are not running. But there are extensive phone calls where Mackenzie keeps encouraging her mom to make a Facebook page about it. You should really make a Facebook page where it's like talking about how this is all wrong. Natalie informs her, Kenzie, stop talking on the phone right now about these things. You can't talk on the phone. We have to talk in person. And again, that's not me insinuating that they run the Facebook page. I have no idea who runs the Facebook page. But there was just a lot of conversations where Mackenzie tells Natalie to run a Facebook page and low and behold, there is a Facebook page.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  It's so interesting, you know, when you get charged, what the judge is looking for is like remorse. You're, you're sorry. You see where you fucked up. You wanna be a better. Better person now, but everything they're doing and the parents are doing on top of it's only making this worse.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  This is never going to work out even in the long run because the parents are still babying her, enabling her.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  That's what Davion's parents said. They say that if she even gets out in fifteen, however many years, right? If her parents keep doing this, like, nothing will change.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  And they're doing it.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  It'll get worse and worse and worse.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  Natalie Vance, well, I can't talk about anything on this stupid fucking phone call. Mackenzie says, yeah, because bald headed bitch is listening. Hey, what's up? Like, fuck. She's talking about the prosecutor. Davion first joined the Flanagan's when he was eight and a half years old. So Davion and his sisters were actually adopted by the Flanagan family. And the biggest thing that they remember is that he was just obsessed with football ever since he was a kid. Like, he never had the opportunity to be involved in organized sports, which, of course, Davion's mom, Mrs. Flanagan, is like, football? Like, out of all the sports, why football, right? She's worried about him, but she also just, like, wants him to experience what he wants to do.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  And Davion's dad says Davion saw a lot in those eight and a half years before he came to us. I believe he was, in fact, like, two years of it was in county care, which is really rough. He, he says he was exposed to a lot of things that no one should be exposed to at all, let alone a child. They say that, you know, he was even the team barber for the football coach and the football team. So he had his own equipment and he would always have them over, much to their detriment, they say, because there's hair all over the place all the time. And they think that senior year was really hard for Davion because he tore his ACL. It was like the third game of his senior season. He wanted to go to football, like, scholarship for football for college.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  And he loses the thing that he was so passionate about. And I think there was a lot of discourse that I saw online that, especially with when your childhood, the first initial years of childhood are extremely rough psychologically. A lot of people encourage putting those children into sports. Like I know in Korea, like martial arts is like a big thing as well because it helps to like it. There's just a lot of research of how it helps the development, especially when you know, he has seen a lot that he shouldn't have to have seen as a kid. And I think losing that was huge for him. Davion's dad says, I think if we're completely being honest, it was probably the start of his downward spiral. Downward spiral being, I think that he just had a very normal

• 15:41Speaker 00

  teenager rebellious streak.

• 15:48Speaker 00

  Twenty years after Natalie Holloway disappeared on a high school graduation trip to Aruba, Natalie's mother Beth is ready to tell the complete story. Taken Natalie Holloway is a three-part series that follows Beth's relentless pursuit of answers and justice for her daughter, and gives a fuller picture of who Natalie was as a person. It's the definitive account of a case that gripped multiple nations and never let go. Watch Taken Natalie Holloway, November 4th, only on Netflix. For kids, summer means freedom. And for adults, summer still means freedom, thanks to Mint Mobile's summer sale. Right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. Free yourself from big wireless and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  When I made the switch to Mint, everything stayed the same, except for the money that I was saving. I got to keep my phone, my number, save my time, my money, and the coverage stayed the same. No loopholes, no hidden fees. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/rotten. That's mintmobile.com/rotten. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/rotten. That's it, there's no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months, plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra, initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20GB hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like showing up for movie night, ready for a heart-pounding thriller, but getting a three-hour documentary on lawn care. That's kind of like insurance. Insurance may all seem the same on the surface, but when it comes to getting the help you need, State Farm is the real deal. You wouldn't settle for a snooze fest when you came for a thrill ride. So don't settle for just any insurance when there's State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 17:48Speaker 00

  And Davion's parents say that they didn't like him smoking weed. They thought weed was a gateway drug, but they can also see how he did get into weed because he had so much anxiety and it would just help with his anxiety. And it finally felt like it was calming down a lot of the feelings that he might have had. And, you know, he's been through so much more hardship than so many people his age. And he's going through this normal, very rebellious teenage phase. Of course, there's going to be arguments and disagreements with his parents. But it seemed like, by all accounts, what everybody has been saying, and not just the family, but friends of Davion, that if anyone was going to get through it, it was going to be Davion and the Flanagan's. But Mackenzie took him, just took him away from them.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Davion's parents say Davion was always the one checking in on his sisters. So him and his two sisters were adopted. And Divine Flanagan has been really vocal, and she's done a lot of insightful interviews where she talks about the process that she had to go through with grief and mourning, and probably is definitely still going through. But she says, you know, there was a DM that she received from Mackenzie. And this is like August 5th of 2022. This is like a few days after the crash. Mackenzie writes, like this is after killing Davion, her brother. "Hey, you don't need to answer me. I wouldn't expect you to. I just want to say I'm sorry for everything. I love you and Davion. He was like a brother to me. I hope you're all getting as positive, calm energy because your family deserves it, and I'm praying for you guys." What is that message after killing someone's brother?

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Davion's mom tells the judge, "I want to share a small part of what we lost July 31st, 2022. My son Davion is and always will be so much more than cargo. He was precious. He was an amazing soul with a heart of gold. He gave to the world what he wanted most in his life, which was love. The kind of love that would rescue a friend in the middle of the night, no questions asked. The kind that would protect others and honor them. He made friends easily with his infectious smile. He was gifted athlete. My son did not have a clique of friends, but instead he was a friend of all. Davion made sure that everyone that crossed his path knew that he truly saw them, that he valued them, and that they were worth his time." And typically, I mean, this sounds like something that a lot of mothers would say about their children. But after going through this massive FOIA request on this file,

• 20:01Speaker 00

  things are not edited to look beneficial to anyone, even the victims. I mean, this really is like a spot on description of Davion. He had friends like everywhere and all of them are coming to the police trying to ask like, how can we help? Here's what we found, like, we're investigating. People are going out of their way to express how much of an impact that he had on them. And I don't think they were doing that intentionally. I think it was just like, they couldn't help it because they're going through that grief. Davion's mom continues, Davion was adopted with his sisters from foster care. They're biological siblings. We were honored to be chosen to, or to have, you know, been chosen to be their parents. They're forever family and I'm devastated by the loss of Davion. The world lost a truly special man.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  My girls lost their best friend, their protector, the one and only trusted family that has been by their side from day one. He alone understands the pain and loss that they have gone through and was always there for them. This fact alone breaks my heart for my girls and my family. So many dreams shattered, a future stolen. We will never get to see the amazing man that he surely was to become. His life was precious, like I said. He was so much more than cargo. Davion's parents are very religious and I do think that there was a part included where Davion's mom is talking about religion and how Mackenzie should repent, right? Davion's sister Divine tells the judge in part, I don't want this pain for anyone else. I don't want people to have to go through this. As an 18-year-old, I hate the fact that he was gone because someone decided to take his life.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  Now that Davion is gone, I feel stuck. I feel as if I can't move forward. I feel lost. He was the only one who picked me up when I fell. He was my best friend and the only person that stayed with me since I was born. This is a recorded phone call of Mackenzie and Natalie talking about Davion's family's impact statements. Mackenzie says on the recorded jail line, and when Davion's mom said, I hope Kenzie can repent and weird ass shit, like, that was weird as fuck. Natalie says, I do feel bad for Divine, obviously.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  I do too. That's what Mackenzie says. But then they started talking about how Divine, so in Divine's impact statement, she's talking about how it feels like Mackenzie has no remorse. It feels like she doesn't care. And like, even before the jail calls, it's like she went out for Halloween. She went out to the Kid Cudi concert. Like it's very clear. She just does whatever she wants. But they start talking about Divine and what she said and Mackenzie says, Divine said something along the lines of Mackenzie always has the easy way out. Mackenzie says, "You don't even know me. So what the fuck do you mean easy way out? I never even hung out with you ever." "I know, honey. I know. What the fuck is the easy way out? I don't even understand what that means."

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Natalie Rantz, "I love how everybody knows exactly what went on in this house at all times of the day." "Our house? Yeah, because you know, they say you were never disciplined. There was no any consequences. There was no nothing you always had." What are they saying? Just stuff like that. Like, I love it. Everybody knows exactly what goes on in this house all day. Just internet trolls. They don't even know what. It doesn't matter. Natalie Rantz about the internet trolls saying, quote, "The internet trolls are evil and vile." And anyone saying anything positive is going to be attacked. There's no sense in doing that. They're evil, disgusting people. In a separate call, Natalie says, "I wish I could talk to you in private. There's some shit being posted online. Your mind will be blown." "There's sheep who believe everything that they read or hear on social media, and then there's good people who know better."

• 23:20Speaker 00

  "That's why I hate the internet. I hate social media. Ignorant people." Natalie reassures Mackenzie, "People that know you know that this is bullshit. People that don't know you are ignorant and they're talking out of their ass." Christine Russo gives her impact statement to the judge and she says, "No one wanted this to be a murder. No one wanted to punish Mackenzie Shirilla for this accident, but this was not a car accident. The evidence and science prove that Mackenzie Shirilla murdered my son Dominic as well as Davion. We all know what happened in that car that day. What we don't know is why. I wish I could change this every day. I lost three children in that crash. Not a minute goes by each day that I don't think about my son as well as Davion. My heart is forever broken. The cries heard from the Shirilla family and friends after the verdict are nothing more than a lack of remorse.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  Mackenzie Shirilla had a choice. Dom and Davion did not." Mackenzie is in the back of the courtroom and she's shaking her head while crying. We're all left here to mourn. Mackenzie is going to prison because you did this. Be thankful that you're still alive and have a future, whatever that may be. Dom and Davion were robbed of their futures, their hopes and their dreams. Mackenzie showed no mercy on Dom, nor did she on Davion. Only God at this time can have mercy on her soul. Angelo, Dom's brother, tells the judge that Mackenzie is the most selfish person he knows. Ironically, dating Dom, his brother, who is the most selfless person he knows. Mackenzie Shirilla murdered Dom and Davion in cold blood and had already moved on.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Mackenzie killed Dom over the thought of losing him and she made Davion collateral damage. She was driving, going to concerts, dressing up for Halloween, no thoughts of the feelings and lives that she had destroyed. Mackenzie ran, sent a jail call. I understand Davion's mom, like, I know how they think because they don't know me. But it's like what Mrs. Russo and Angelo said, that was just crazy. Oh my gosh, Mackenzie, look, don't you think on it one second.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I hate, I hate her mom.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Mackenzie points out the real things that are of importance now. I'm worried about my stuff. Because that's how they feel about me, they definitely fucked up my stuff. Because remember, she has stuff in Dom's house? Why is Angelo such a fucking liar? What the fuck? Mackenzie, they're just evil people, baby. I'm sorry. Don't think on it, do not think on it anymore. Stop. I need you to stop, okay? Move forward, you hear, mama? In another phone call, Mackenzie keeps asking her parents, "You need to get my stuff from Dom's house before they burn it or some shit." What are you gonna do with the stuff you're in prison? In another call, Natalie feels like someone is finally on her side about something and she says, "Oh, speaking of that, somebody was online saying how, you know, there was no parental supervision with you and stuff.

• 25:59Speaker 00

  This was a party house and I just let people have all kinds of parties here and everything. And finally, the neighbor across the street, she was like, "You guys don't know what you're talking about. They're a wonderful family. They're very nice and I live across the street. There were never parties over there. I don't know what you guys are talking about." Don't believe everything you hear. Yeah, well, you know, all those people are just talking out of their ass. But are they Natalie Shirilla also pleads with the judge in court before sentencing? And she's like wearing a tank top. It's the craziest thing like everyone divine, everyone like people that are kids. I mean divine, I don't know if she was eighteen at the, no, I think she was younger than eighteen at the time. Everyone showed up to court with like the decorum is there. Natalie's wearing a tank top.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  And like, I understand clothing can get expensive, but if you're ever going to borrow a blazer, go buy a blazer and then return it like today is the day.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is your daughter's.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, life. She says, my name is Natalie Shirilla. I just want to say, am I allowed to address them at all? And she kind of turns to Dom and Davion's families. I guess the judge gives her the okay. I just want to say to the families that I'm broken, sad and lost and my heart hurts for everyone. Okay?

• 27:10Speaker 00

  She says, okay. Davion was her new friend and Dom was the love of her life and he was part of our family. Okay? I'm just, I'm just so sorry that this happened and we're heartbroken. Okay. And then your honor. So it's almost like she's like, okay, check, check, said sorry to them. Okay. Okay. Did you hear me? Okay? Okay. And then your honor. This was a terrible tragic nightmare accident have happened that she has no memory of, and she will never emotionally or physically recover from it. She almost died too, and we're asking that you please not run the sentences consecutive. So that was a huge thing. If, if it's fifteen years consecutive, she would need thirty years before the option of parole. I believe she needed to have parole as an option because she was seventeen, even though she's tried as an adult.

• 27:55Speaker 00

  And she does like the prayer hands. She's like, this is why we ask, you know, do not run the sentences consecutive.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  She stopped saying, okay, after.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Addressing the family.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. Dom was family and we all loved each other. That morning of the accident, um, she called. So now she's like using this time to clarify shit. Remember how Dom's mom was like, when I called, she was so upset about Facebook. Do you remember?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  She called. I got a call that there was a car accident, so I went to the hospital and I didn't even know who was in the car. The names had not been confirmed yet. And I was like, I'm gonna cry because I missed him so much. Uh, we loved him so much. So I called Dom over and over again, praying that he was going to answer the phone and he didn't. He didn't answer the phone. So then I tried to call his mom and she didn't answer the phone either and still didn't know who was in the car. I didn't even, I didn't know if she was alive. I, I didn't know what was happening. So then when we were in the waiting room and then his mom ended up, um, she did call me. So I answered the phone and I was like, oh my God, I don't even know who was in the car. Like, what's happening? Was that Dom? And she said, what do you mean? My son is dead. And I was like, I'm so sorry.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  And then she said something like, and now I have to wait until your kid's out of the hospital. And then I didn't hear the rest. I guess this is her trying to share her side of the story, but like such a weird odd way to spend time talking to the judge. She says, we loved him so much. I hung up the phone. I did not talk about social media. I didn't even know what was going on yet. Okay, so then that was it. Um.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  What?

• 29:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's

• 29:32Speaker 01

  So she's trying to defend her own character right now? Like, she's like, I didn't say social media.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then she brings up the whole modeling post, right? That was like

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Her modeling post response?

• 29:43Speaker 00

  Yes. In the hospital that

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Mind blowing.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I've never seen this happen before.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  She's like trying to clear her name.

• 29:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, usually when I

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Her daughter's name.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  No, and usually when I say, oh, this was like the shittiest impact statement from a defendant's parent. It's because it's short and generic. Like, please have mercy on my kid, right? But this is like the shittiest of the shittiest I've ever seen. In the hospital, that vitality post, um, I commented on that because somebody called her a murderer and she's not a murderer. She just got convicted of murder, right? So what? She didn't even have her phone at that point because the police still had it. Okay? I jumped on and I was like, she's not a murderer. She's more sad than her, you know, than most of the people commenting. She's been trying to get in touch with you. I mean, at that point, it was just an accident. So I commented on her behalf, not because of the modeling opportunity. Who cares about that?

• 30:35Speaker 00

  I just, I don't want them to refer to her as a murderer, okay? I don't even know that comment got on the phone, you know, like because the police still had her device and she could not access her phone or social media. That's why I did it. I had called them asking if they could shut down social media. Because people were calling her a murderer and making death threats and organizing groups to take her out when she got out of the hospital and stuff. Yeah Natalie, they'll just shut down social media to care of your daughter. I'm sure Google Meta and Oracle would absolutely lose it all for your daughter. What better cause would there ever be? Natalie Shirilla does not know how to read the room. Mackenzie is like crying, she's so emotional during this, she's like, yes. I don't know if she feels vindicated, okay, but there's two officers in frame and they also both look just like confused.

• 31:20Speaker 00

  This is during like the live stream of the verdict and the sentencing. They're looking like, they're a mixture of bored and fucking confused and like, what the fuck is this lady yapping about? They're just like, what? Natalie Shirilla continues. I didn't even want her phone. I don't care about her phone, I don't care about social media, I just wanted them to stop calling her a murderer. So that when she did come to and she did come out of surgery, multiple surgeries, that she wouldn't see all these people calling her a murderer because she would never, ever murder the love of her life, okay? Halloween, Halloween, um, for three months after the accident, she would only wear his clothes. She would only eat the snacks he ate, she would only listen to the music he wrote, okay? She was laying in bed for three months crying.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  There was a shrine of him next to her with photos and things that he liked and this flower that lights up that he got her because you know, he wanted it to be fresh and alive forever, it's like a little beautiful flower, okay? She's got this shrine of him next to her, so she was crying for three months. So her friends asked her if she wanted to go out to trick or treating or some Halloween and it was at OU, Ohio University, and she didn't even want to go, she said, I don't know, should I go? She couldn't even walk yet, barely. So I told her, I said, baby, please go, it's Halloween, you've been laying for three months crying, only listening to his music. Please go have a moment of fun, a moment of fun. So we told her to go. My husband drove her, I brought her back home, she just needed a second of fun from losing her whole world, her whole world. So this was us, we told her to go. And

• 32:46Speaker 00

  That concert uh she went to with Dom's cousin, the Kid Cudi concert. Abby, Abby, you know, they picked her up, they brought her there. That was Mackenzie and Dom and Abby all decided to go to this concert together. And um, that was for Dom. Everything she did after the accident was either in honor of him, to be close to him, or just to be by him any way that she can. She's devastated and tragic and he was the air that she breathes, okay? And they went with his cousin. We spent all kinds of time with him after the accident and what was the other thing? It was so shocking, the judge interrupts her. I'm hearing an awful lot about your daughter. I'm not hearing very much about the two dead people.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  Dom, okay, I'm asking you for leniency because this was a tragic accident that she does not remember. And Davion, he's a new friend. I'm so sorry. What does that mean? His life is worthless? The judge asks. No, no, no, no, no. God, no. Not at all. They all loved each other. They all spent every day together. You know what I mean? I, I don't, I don't know too much. Isn't that part of the problem, Mrs. Shirilla? Sorry? Isn't that part of the problem that they all trusted each other? It's, it's not a problem at all. It's wonderful. How they all ended up in the car together until two of them ended up dead?

• 34:13Speaker 00

  I understand what it looks like. I'm saying this was a tragic accident. She would never, we're gonna have to disagree on that. I, I understand, I understand. But anyway, um, that's it. I just wanted to address those. We told her to go to those things and then she did go with Dom's family, so loo- look on that with different eyes if you can, please. If you would have a moment, all you need is five con- five minutes of conversation to have with her to learn who she is. Just, you know, you would just see five minutes. Yeah. She's not capable of, you know, doing and you would see for yourself. Thank you. That's all. I, I'm so sorry, guys. Thank you.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  Zolair omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you've ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing, or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency

• 35:39Speaker 00

  treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches, and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair. This is an advertisement for Zolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis. You know how special it feels when you're deep in a true crime rabbit hole, or you have to work late? Again, and someone sends you a little surprise to help you get through? That's the magic of DoorDash. Because showing up isn't always about being there in person. Sometimes it's making sure your people have their favorite meal or necessities before

• 36:22Speaker 00

  they even have to ask. DoorDash delivers from restaurants, grocery, retail, and convenience stores, so you can show up for the people you love, no matter what the moment calls for. And with Dash Pass, there's no delivery fee on thousands of eligible orders. It's one of the best ways to say "I got you" without saying a word. A family friend just had her second baby, and instead of getting the baby anything, because, let's be real, they're not going to remember, I wanted to splurge and send a DoorDash gift card to the family, so that they don't have to worry about meals, groceries. They can just be home and focus on their newborn. I love a DoorDash. It saved me so much time and energy personally, so I just know that they're going to really enjoy the doorstep delivery service as well. DoorDash makes Showing up for the people you love, easy.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  Needed that, delivered, DoorDash, order now. Twenty years after Natalie Holloway disappeared on a high school graduation trip to Aruba, Natalie's mother Beth is ready to tell the complete story. Taken: Natalie Holloway is a three-part series that follows Beth's relentless pursuit of answers and justice for her daughter and gives a fuller picture of who Natalie was as a person. It's the definitive account of a case that gripped multiple nations and never let go. Watch Taken: Natalie Holloway, November 4th, only on Netflix.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  The fact that she didn't even care to prepare anything more in-depth about Dom and Davion. Later, Mackenzie asks her mom in a recorded jail line, "Why was the judge being so mean to you?" "I don't know. I don't care." I was about to be like, "Just stop talking to her because she clearly doesn't care." She's like, "Why are you talking about her so much and not the victims?" All the while, Natalie is trying to motivate Mackenzie. "You are here for a reason. You impact lives no matter where you go in such a positive way. This is just another chapter." So Mackenzie shares her statement during sentencing. "To the families of Dom and Davion, I'm so deeply sorry. I hope one day you can see I would never let this happen

• 38:26Speaker 00

  or do it on purpose. I wish I could remember what happened. I'm just so sorry. I'm heartbroken. I love Dom and Davion. We were all friends and Dom was my soulmate. I wish I could take all your pain away and I'm so sorry. And to my family, thank you for the support and all the love you guys give. Thank you for fighting with me. I love you all so much. I'm done." Which is, I mean, she was emotional during it, but I don't think, I think a lot of the emotion was just for herself because it's sentencing. And this is a little bit different from the speech she was brainstorming with her mom on the phone on the recorded jail lines, because in that one, she says, "You can see, I would never let this happen or do it on purpose. I'm just heartbroken. I wish I could take all your pain away. Long live the voice. And to my family and support, I thank you. I thank you all for seeing the real

• 39:08Speaker 00

  under all these lies. Thank you for non-stop fighting for me and all the love and support. I love you." Love you all so much. I pray one day people won't see me as a monster they're making out me out to be. Thank you.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  This was the first draft?

• 39:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  She spent more time talking about her quote unquote supporter.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I it makes sense that her attorney would just delete like all of that. Okay? I don't really think Mackenzie understands the full scope of what's happened. In one conversation from jail, Mackenzie says she's got some sort of message from someone named Benjamin Harper. She's worried that this is Davion's neighbor. And she tells her mom, I'm nervous for him to message me. They're about to send me some hate mail and shit. Natalie tells her, just block it. No, it's okay. I'm gonna reply. I'm gonna reply. I want them to send messages like that. Like bitch, I don't give a fuck. I know what I did. I know what I didn't do. That wasn't on purpose. The only thing that I'm guilty of is driving. But how do you know that if you don't remember what happened? Also, her lack of understanding reality is astonishing. In another phone call, she's talking to her mom about said sentencing. So this is right before sentencing.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  She's found guilty and she doesn't know how long she's gonna be sentenced to. And she says, I'm about to say, I don't even wanna go to court type shit. Or should I just go to court? Natalie gently reminds her of her reality. Honey, you you don't have a choice. What's the point of even having a court date? They're already fucking me over. What's the point of even going? There's no point of even having court anymore. Just give me a fucking time and just tell me so we can appeal this shit. She gets sentenced to fifteen years to life to be served concurrently. Which means she will be eligible for parole in fifteen years, though it seems highly unlikely. Even the judge says it's probably unlikely, right? But Mackenzie says to her mom in a jail call, but I'm surprised she only gave me like fifteen. I thought she was gonna give me like eighty-five years. That's what I was expecting.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  No, I really did think it was going to be the death penalty or life in prison and no parole, but she gave me fifteen years. And I do get paroled. That's crazy as fuck. Davion's mom says, I'll be honest, we were taken aback when we found out that the sentences were to run concurrently. We were taken aback. She is essentially serving the same sentence that she would have if only one of the boys had been in the car. It's very hard to stomach. Mackenzie's parents have stomachs of steel. They're trying to take this case to the Supreme Court. Um, they did file an appeal. So after your conviction, you can file an appeal. They filed an appeal. It was rejected. They filed a second appeal, but they filed it one day late. So it has to be within the 365 days.

• 41:37Speaker 00

  But they filed it one day late and they argued it was like confusing because of leap year. And everyone's like, um, what? The Shirilla state in interviews that they did not have a good defense, which is pretty par for the course for appeals is to say that your attorneys did not represent you well enough. That's pretty standard. They state that they were bullied, almost bullied into a bench trial instead of a jury trial. Steve says, if this was a jury trial instead of a bench trial, quote, she would have never been convicted. She'd be free today. She'd be going on with her life, but she'd be free. That's the truth. But to let you know, her lawyer, when asked her about a jury or a bench, she asked for a jury and he talked her out of it. And then he starts talking about the judge. He says, I mean, that ego.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  I don't know how she walks in and out of the room with that kind of ego. It's unfortunate that a sitting judge of that long ruled that way and acted that way. Later he argues, you get pulled over now in Strongsville speeding. It's attempted murder. That's the precedent they've set with this case.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  I'm just so shocked that they still have supporters.

• 42:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the support comes from, I do think maybe the defense did do a good job and they didn't bring in a medical expert and they didn't rule out these world of possibilities. You know, and I think when it's not ruled out, and I think because people come in with probably the same feeling I have, which is our criminal justice system is not the best. So maybe it's like, but we can't because there are innocent people in jail. So we have to give some sort of leeway and thought. And I think they use that to their advantage because I just, I'm lost. Yeah, but when the trial is happening, it seems like at some point they all agreed on a bench trial. I mean, they had to, Mackenzie had to agree on it, but even her parents. In one jail call, Natalie is saying, oh, and then one of my friends was like, you made the right decision with choosing a bench trial and stuff. And I'm like,

• 43:22Speaker 00

  well, it wasn't up to me. You know what I mean? But thank you. And that made me start crying. So whatever happened up to this point, Kenzie is exactly that it's supposed to be. We just have to trust and put our faith in it. Okay? So it seems like you like a bench trial. In another call, Mackenzie wordly asked her mom if she should have done a jury trial, to which Natalie says, no, no, because there's still other people that are like, I don't care that she did this and this, and she should get the death penalty. That person doesn't know you. That's how some people are talking. Nope, you made the right choice. Regardless, they tried to take it up to the Supreme Court of Ohio, which they recently denied. Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Ohio, Sharon Kennedy, refused to review Mackenzie's case, writing in a decision that she declines to accept jurisdiction of the appeal.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  She could petition to the US Supreme Court on a federal level, but anything on a federal level is even more tedious and even more of a lengthy process than on a state level. And it's just, your odds of that are not worth the fees usually. Most likely, her next big milestone is her first parole hearing that will be in 2037. And I know that Dom and Davion's families will most likely be attending, and I think they will be attending with a fire burning passion to keep her behind bars. And I would think it would be a very long shot for her to be released on parole in 2037, which means if they reject her parole, she has to wait anywhere between one to 10 years. So like, they tell you at your parole hearing, if you're denied, anywhere between one to

• 44:50Speaker 00

  10 years, but the fact that she's young would probably make it less than 10. It has to legally be less than 10, but it could be 10, it could be nine.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  I just don't see her changing, like the way that the parents are acting too.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Cheyenne says, I don't know if she still does it now, but when I was in there, she was journaling every single day, date, timestamp, and she told me it was for a book when she gets out. She told me she had a modeling gig before she even came in, and she was like, I got offered a modeling gig before I came in, I'm gonna write a book when I get out, I'm gonna be a social media influencer, telling my story and all that stuff. So this is why the families are trying to do Dom and Davion's Law, because in Ohio, the Son of Sam's Laws, which protects the victims' families from the perpetrator profiting off their crimes, a lot of that in Ohio has not been updated to include social media.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 45:39Speaker 00

  Right, so I think it just includes a lot of the traditional ways of making money. So I think they're trying to get those updated. I mean, this whole book thing. Yeah. And she also says about Mackenzie, you know how in the Netflix documentary, she says, I think about it every day and stuff like that. I'm not going to say she doesn't because I'm not in her head every day, but her actions. I don't think she does because since and she's like, since I've been gone, you know how I said Juice was Jasmine's girlfriend? As soon as I left, she started doing stuff with Juice. So Shayn's just like, she's in there like just doing things like she doesn't, I don't think she's thinking about it every day. And that is where we are with the Mackenzie Shirilla case.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  I, I know that this was a very lengthy journey that I just took you on, but I just wanted to be as thorough as possible. And there was just so much in the FOIA that I felt like. You know, you do have to pay, I, I forget how much it was, but like most places you have to pay to get the FOIA. And then to have the leniency of time to have people go through and like for me to sit there and read. Like, I know that a lot of you guys are also working, so it would have just been impossible. So hopefully that is as thorough as we can get. Let me know your thoughts. What do you think? Leave it in the comments. And with that, stay safe and I will see you in the next one. The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  Sunny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom. Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola. This small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface. Watch the Hulu original series Phony. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. I'm going to be honest, guys, I don't remember the last time I wrote in Korean. I can have conversations with my family out loud, but every time I have to text my dad, we just end up calling because I don't think he can decipher anything that I typed to him. With Rosetta Stone Sapphire, their biggest launch in over a decade.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  I can practice my writing in personalized games that actually make it fun to learn. It's one of the coolest new features called chat missions. You're put in interactive scenarios and given three objectives, a mission to accomplish, like asking. How much something costs. Ordering a cold brew coffee. getting a wifi password. along the way you get realtime corrections and feedback to help you sound more natural and confident. it's a supportive way to build confidence before putting your language skills to use in real life. and it incorporates Rosetta Stone's industry-leading immersive method for language learning with new learning tools powered by the latest in learning technology. if you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire. Rotten Mango listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today.

• 48:27Speaker 00

  this gets you access to Rosetta Stone Sapphire in 25 languages.