Google Engineer Allegedly Punches Wife to Death…Then Never Speaks Again

A cat feeder in California, meant to monitor Ivy and Tony’s two pet cats unintentionally captures the following events on camera. 12:21 am, Ivy walks into the kitchen and starts cleaning up. By 1:04 am, Ivy turns off the lights and heads to bed. 4:43 am and suddenly movement is detected. Tony, her husband, comes into frame with his shirt splattered in a deep red substance. He wanders out of frame only to return wielding a circular hand saw - the electric ones with a rotating blade and serrated edges made to cut two by fours. He’s tense. Rigid. The electric saw isn’t on but he has it pressed against his throat. The serrated blade is frozen. His finger hovers over the power button. All he needs to do is just. press. down. He pulls the saw away from his neck and walks out of frame again. The next time he’s caught on the pet feeder, one of his arms is completely swollen, drenched in blood. But Tony isn’t injured. So where is all this blood coming from? What has he been doing all night? And what is he going to do when he realizes the pet feeder is recording his every move? Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

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• 0:57Speaker 00

  There are so many things that you wouldn't even think have cameras, but they do. And they're potentially recording you. And it sounds nefarious, it's not all nefarious. It's just unexpected is all. Like ovens, a lot of smart ovens, they have cameras inside the oven to utilize AI to detect what type of food you're putting in there so that they can cook it to completion without you having to think. Which I guess inside the oven is much less invasive than say like a robot vacuum. Those things have cameras and as they roam around cleaning your hardwood floors, the camera is scanning to make sure that there's no obstacles in the way, like you getting out of the shower butt naked. Even those little automatic pet feeders for your cats,

• 1:41Speaker 00

  they typically come with cameras. And I do think that that's a feature that a lot of people want. They want to see their cats eating. They want to make sure that their cats are getting fed if they're at work. Unless you're this guy who posts on Reddit. Okay, so this is kind of a complicated one, but here goes. My girlfriend got a new job, so she got one of those auto feeders for her cat because she's going to be away a lot more now. And it's like a doctor feeder, so it has a camera in it and it can connect to wifi and

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Doctor feeder, you say?

• 2:08Speaker 00

  I think it's one of those fancy cat feeders. And he says it can connect to wifi. She can actually look at the camera while she's at work and even talk through it and send the cat treats. And it comes through the cat feeder. I said initially, I don't like the idea of you having a camera in the living room. But she was like, it's my place, so you shut the fuck up. So I did, I shut the fuck up. Anyhow, flash forward a couple of weeks on a Friday, I get out early and I was supposed to go to her place that night. But I just went out like two in the afternoon to chill until she got back home from work. I laid out on the couch, I completely forget about the camera and I eventually start self-pleasuring because that's something that I just do. And apparently she's at work talking to her colleague about this cat and decides that she wants to show her colleague how she feeds it a treat and see if the cat comes over.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  So she turns the camera on with her colleague over her shoulder. And here I am on the couch, just beating it. She's obviously very pissed off, like, how often do you do this? Which is not often, and she would say things like you violated my space and all of this. And we've been fighting on and off for a few weeks now. And then to top it off, her colleague found my Instagram and has been liking some of my photos. Like even ones that my girlfriend's not even in. And it's just kind of got me thinking like, am I the asshole? I mean, that feels honestly more like a user problem than a cat feeder with a built in camera problem. The cat feeders will just capture the cats sprinting to the feeder typically. And you'll hear the food come out, the kittens being startled by the new, there's a lot of viral cat feeder videos.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  The cat food will tumble out and then the kittens will get so scared, they jump like three feet in the air, like a circus animal. It's usually just like more on the wholesome spectrum. People just love the cat videos. Which is exactly why Tony and Ivy, this is a couple with two cats. They get a cat feeder. So Tony and Ivy and their two cats and they get that cat feeder and they put it in their house. And on this particular day, this cat feeder is picking up something, just a lot of things, alarming things. But there's no built in system to call the authorities because something is alarming or even call the people who own the pet feeder. All this cat feeder does is just record.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  So this cat feeder records by itself?

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Oh, like a security camera?

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Almost. They keep a data log. A little past midnight at twelve twenty-one, the wife Ivy, she's in her twenties. She walks into the kitchen to close up shop for the night, if you will. I mean, she's cleaning up. She's turning off all the lights. And by one oh four AM, it just seems like the whole house is going to bed. The lights are off. There's not really action. The cat camera is not picking up anything. But it's just downstairs. It sees the living room. It sees the kitchen, but it's not seeing the entirety of the house. And then four forty-three AM, this is really early in the morning. Tony, the husband, suddenly appears in the cat feeder camera and his shirt looks like, almost like he's been painting. There's just deep red colors everywhere, some sort of pigment.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  He goes out of the frame. And when he comes back, he's holding one of those circular, one of those wood saws that you turn on and the blade just starts rotating to cut the wood. But it's not rotating. It's turned off right now. And he's looking at it and he brings it up to his neck. And his finger is on the button to turn it on. And he's about to press down and he's very tense. It's almost like he's just waiting for the courage to press it. And then he doesn't. And then he walks off. Then the next time he's caught on the pet feeder, his entire arm is swollen. There's like this thick red liquid on him and it's very clear that it's blood. Like there's just blood everywhere. But Tony himself is not injured.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  Not even a little bit. Like that circular saw, he didn't do anything. There, there's no injuries on him. There's not even a cut or a bruise, really, other than his swollen arm. So where is all this blood coming from? And what has he been doing all night? And why is it that we haven't seen Ivy since midnight? And what is he gonna do when he realizes that this cat feeder is recording his every move? We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support the National Network to End Domestic Violence. N N E D V is a nonprofit dedicated to ending workplace, relationship, and stalking violence. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers. We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, full Shownotes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com. Today's case involves topics like DV, so please watch with discretion.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  We also worked with our professional Chinese translators since the news was, it takes place in the US, but it's a lot. There was a lot more discussion in Chinese media about this case, but a lot of quotes, statements may be translated and shortened or condensed for brevity. So with that being said, let's get into it. Chinese is arguably one of the hardest languages to learn, and I'm not just saying that as somebody who has been trying to half-heartedly learn this language for the past 12 years of my life being with my Chinese husband. I just know how to say very important stuff like yes, no, thank you, and that's way too expensive. But there are words in the Chinese language that mean one thing, but also sound like another thing, and there's a lot of these. So for example, cup sounds like tragedy.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Uh huh, yeah, sure, sure. Bei, I guess cups is like bei, bei zi, bei ju.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  How do you say tragedy?

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Tragedy, bei ju.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  So it sounds so much alike that there are now sayings in Chinese where they say, life is like a cup. If it's washed, it breaks. Life is like a tragedy. If it's washed, it breaks. It's like a play on words. They say porridge sounds like like. So on social media, a lot of younger people will say things like, I porridge you instead of I like you. Can you say porridge?

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Oh, wo xi fan, xi fan, like like, okay, xǐ huán, xi fan, xǐ huán, right, okay.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  The fruit pear sounds a lot like pressure, they say. So people will say like you feel a mountain of pear. So the fruit, the pear.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Pear, li zi, uh huh.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  Does it sound like pressure, stress, pressure?

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Li zi, li, just a fruit pear?

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, fruit pear. Apparently they'll say, I feel a mountain of pears right now. Instead of saying, I feel a mountain of pressure right now. Because pear sounds like.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yā li, ah, yā li, xian na, okay, okay.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  Wait, I don't get it, what it was.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like, um, the, like, it's like a more formal turn of pear. It's like, you say the full thing rather than the short term, but yes, I know what you're talking about.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  So it sounds the same?

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  So instead of saying like, I feel a mountain of pressure, they say, I feel a mountain of pears. And one of the reasons that you can't even give somebody a clock or a watch as a gift. So typically in Chinese culture, I think also in Korean culture, although I'm not sure if it stems from this reasoning. But if you give somebody a clock, the word clock, the words give a clock. Also sound like attend a funeral.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Yes. Song Zhong.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  So when you give a clock, that's really bad. So a lot of the times, if you gift somebody a clock or a watch, they will give you a dollar in return. So it seems more like a, a purchase, a trade versus, you know, giving somebody a clock. Because you're almost wishing them death. And to make it even trickier, there are even number sounds. So five, two, zero sounds like I love you. People will text five, two, zero instead of texting, I love you. And everybody knows exactly what it means. There's the long one. What's the long one?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Oh, it's like five, two, zero, one, three, one, four. Like, like I love you my whole entire life. Something like that.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  So people will just send a sequence of numbers and just think that you get the most deepest profound confession of love.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  And May twenty, May twenty is the Chinese Valentine's Day now.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Because it's five twenty. So yeah, I love you. Because numbers just mean a lot of things. Like a lot of Chinese buyers will make sure the house number doesn't sound or mean anything else that sounds negative. Lots of people don't like the number four because it sounds like death. But when you're in the Bay Area in San Francisco and you're buying a house where all the tech people are buying a house. It's very difficult to be picky. There's not a lot of options. And the options that are there are already in the midst of bidding wars. You have to act fast. For a four bedroom, two bathroom house, that's less than two thousand square feet, by the way, eighteen hundred. Yeah, about eighteen hundred square feet, which is, okay, that's not a bad size. It's just the fact that it's over two million dollars. For less than two thousand square feet.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Two million dollars and it's a twenty minute drive from Google's campus in SF. It's going to get snatched up. So regardless if the house number is seven, one, four. Because seven, one, four, it sounds in Chinese like wife will die. Regardless of that fact, you're gonna wanna get the house. January fifteenth, twenty twenty four, police are inside a house, seven, one, four. Trying not to flinch at the metallic scent. The officers testified later that it just, you walk into the house and it smells like blood. There's no other way to describe it. Everything smells like blood. You can't smell anything else because everybody's house has a very unique scent. Not that that is important to the officers, but it can tell them a lot.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  If you smell lots of feces and urine, you could probably come to the conclusion that there is someone that is not well-kept here and maybe not even a mentally good state. If you smell other things, like the scent of a dead body, you can also people pick up on the smells. They can't even smell anything but that strong, eye-watering metallic scent. They're performing a wellness check when they find a suspect in a nearly catatonic state. That's the only way they can describe it, just they're on their knees staring. The officers, they broke down the door and there's just a suspect on their knees staring at the wall. It doesn't matter that the officers are slamming down the doors to get in.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  They're just all screaming like, get your hands in the air. None of it matters. The suspect, it seems like they saw nothing, heard nothing, don't care about anything. They're just catatonic. They're just staring. They're staring, staring, staring, and right next to them is a dead body. The police, they walk the suspect out with their hands firmly behind the back. They're walking past a little cabinet and this cabinet has a bunch of trinkets on top. They're guiding the suspect out of the house like a dog. And the suspect leans down onto the cabinet. So he leans towards the cabinet and with their mouth bites the top of this picture frame and chucks it like a dog ripping apart a squeaky toy. Just chucks it onto the floor. The picture frame shatters everywhere. There's glass everywhere.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  And inside the picture frame is a photo of Ivy. The same Ivy that is now caked in blood, laying on the bedroom floor. Her face is completely unrecognizable and she's dead.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  The photo, is it just Ivy in there?

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Just Ivy. The wife of the house is now dead. Tony and Ivy are a 27-year-old couple from China and they put $500,000 down on this house. They mortgaged the rest, which is a pretty substantial down payment. They're able to afford it considering both of them are software engineers at Google. They buy the house one year into getting married. They get two cats. They even have a dedicated Instagram for their cats named Cooper and Kiwi. By all accounts, I would say that they seem like a very standard software engineer tech couple. They're obsessed with their cats. They commission artwork for their cats. They buy those cute little party hats for their cats during their birthdays. The cats lay on their laps as they're working from home. And when they're

• 13:24Speaker 00

  not taking pictures of their cats for their Instagram pages, they're going skiing, they're going snowboarding, they're going hiking with their other software engineer couples in the Bay Area. Tony's Instagram bio lists that he's into photography, volleyball, skiing, rock climbing, and a bunch of other sports. Ivy's adds yarn and gardening tours. And they're both Chinese. So just to like paint a picture of both of them, Tony gives the very, like, the very first impression you give of Tony is quiet, academia-focused nerd. I, there's really no other way to describe it. He's always wearing black-framed rectangular glasses. His hair is very short and neat. It looks very efficient, like he doesn't want to spend too much time on his hair. He's a very slender build. He has a very

• 14:07Speaker 00

  unassuming face. The most noticeable thing about him is that he's six feet two inches tall, but other than that, he just kind of looks like a software engineer. He also has a very rigid look to his face. It's not necessarily cold, but he appears guarded. He doesn't seem like the type, and by all accounts, people say he is not the type, to engage in small talk in the elevator. He's not gonna be smiling at you when you're a random coworker that gets into the Google elevator and he's in there. He's probably gonna give you like a curt nod if anything. Whereas his wife Ivy, she looks a lot softer. She's not super expressive, people say. She's also not very expressive with her face, but she looks a little bit more open. People say that she's the type that will smile at your jokes even though they're really not funny. But it's not like a over-the-top like, "Oh my god, you're so funny! Like, where

• 14:51Speaker 00

  did you learn that joke?" It's just like a very polite smile so that you don't feel awkward. She also has very bookish qualities to her. She feels very approachable and unapproachable all at once. The way everyone describes her is, she's the one that will get you coffee one day in the office. And then she's gonna remember your coffee order three years later and you're not even her friend. You're just like the person that works in the room next to her. She feels very approachable in that sense because she's very kind and sweet, but also unapproachable because she will probably score in like the top 1% of an Ivy League school at all times and somehow be the smartest person in the room at the same time and you feel like you can't talk to them because maybe you feel insecure that you're not that smart. But she doesn't make you feel that way. The two of them, they get married in 2022. In 2023, they buy this $2 million house in the Bay Area

• 15:36Speaker 00

  and both of them are now working at Google as software engineers. But just because everything appears to be near perfect from the outside does not make it true. Do you know people who are obsessed with their first loves? It's like a thing, okay, they don't marry their first love in the way that, I mean, the way that they think about their first love, you would think that they're possessed to the point where they almost idolize their first love in a way that everybody around them is very confused. They talk about their first love as if this is a member of Blackpink, an idol that is untouchable, somebody that would never grace planet Earth ever again. And everyone around them is just thinking, I mean, they're great, but like, are we talking about the same person right now? Because this is so crazy. I don't know what you're saying.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  It's like this longing that they have this unreachable love and you're like, no, no, and they're pretty reachable. Like I saw him working at the vape shop down the street. Like he hasn't gone anywhere. I don't know why we're trying to make him out to be this prince charming that ran away. He's down there selling vapes. You can go get him tomorrow if you want. Probably tonight. I don't think he has plans. By the way that they talk about their first love, you would think that they were the one that got away and became an Oscar-winning actor and actress that they'll never be able to connect to again. It's never that serious, but some people just idolize their first love.

• 16:59Speaker 00

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• 20:17Speaker 02

  Chinese has a saying called, um, so guys will describe, sometimes not even like first love, but even like a girl that they like loved.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  The white flower?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  White, um, they call it like white moonlight.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Yes, white moonlight!

• 20:31Speaker 02

  White moonlight.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  That's what I'm just about to say, okay. So they, they call it white moonlight. And then there's the other aspect where they call it like the red rose or something, like the red moonlight. So some people idolize their first love as this white moonlight, so pure, so innocent.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Just, yeah, pureness.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  And then a lot of people will start idolizing this red rose, which is a very passionate love. So this comes later in life, but this is a passionate love that they don't end up with. But they remember this relationship. And so there's almost this very annoyance that people have in China of when guys are always haunted by either the white moonlight or the red rose. And it's just like, get over yourself, it's not that big of a deal. There's even books written about this in China, where a female author writes about how men... Tend to have two loves, the white rose and the red rose. They have two love interests and they're gonna pick between one of them. So the white rose is the first love. But if he marries his first love, she's no longer going to be the white rose.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  She becomes a grain of sticky rice on his clothes, just dull and irritating. And then he's going to yearn after, because he married the white rose, he's going to yearn after the red rose. The red rose is the passionate mistress that makes him feel alive and sensual and burning with love. But here's the thing, if he had chosen the red rose and doesn't marry the white rose, if he married the red rose, she will become mosquito blood on the wall. Sordid marriage, he will consider her ugly and venomous even. And then he will daydream and idolize about what life would have been like had he married the white rose. The eternal, pure moonlight before his bed type of woman. It is a very deep outlook on males' need to conquer women,

• 22:15Speaker 00

  stating that this is the type of system where no real woman can win. Because the moment she's possessed by the man, she gets downgraded and then the other woman is almost like a mythologized. It's about how men only fantasize about those who he cannot conquer. And how men tend to construct women as symbols and then they blame the woman once they become symbols for them. But it's also just a very interesting concept. And I'm sure it's not taken seriously, but it's so widely known that people will even use the categories to determine what kind of ex they were. So like your last ex, are they your white rose or your red rose? To the point that the question can even be asked at dinner parties. Would you rather be a white rose to your ex or a red rose to your ex?

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Uh, like asking, asking a girl?

• 22:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  There's even memes about it with some people hating the concept of the white rose. Because a lot of girls have been compared to a guy's first love. And it's really fucking annoying because typically first loves, they say, it's not even a real relationship. So like you're in this relationship when you're in middle school, high school, sometimes college. You never even have a real relationship with that person to see all the bad things that come from being in a relationship because there's a lot of hardship. So of course you idolize the relationship that has no disappointment in it because you weren't old enough to be disappointed by the relationship. It's just, people are saying it's very annoying to be compared to the first love in relationships.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  That's so interesting. These are very like Chinese specific.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Struggles of, you know, couples in relationship. I know exactly what they're talking about though.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I feel like you don't really hear that a lot in the US.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, because in China, like, I think even up until, okay, so before college, relationship is pretty much forbidden by school and by parents. You're not allowed to publicly be dating, right? Very different from here. So there, a lot of these relationship is like underground, it's forbidden. So it's like very subtle, you you pass a no maybe, you you look at someone, you you you barely touch hands when you're going out, like, it's this very subtle type of relationship, so people have this like very pureness frame of lens when you're looking back at it maybe.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  It's very bizarre.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  It's really weird, yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Really weird, because I feel like in the US, when you think of relationships in high school, you're like, ooh.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  It's so strange, but I just think that the comparison is very toxic. And Ivy hates the fact that Tony will always compare her to his high school ex-girlfriend that he dated on and off in high school and in college. His first love, and her name is Jiang, Jiang the ex-girlfriend.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Was that in US or was that in China?

• 24:53Speaker 00

  In China, but they all come to the US, all three of them.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  When did they come to US?

• 24:58Speaker 00

  This was during their PhD years.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Oh, so they finished college and all that, wow.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  I I mean, they all went to the same college in China, and then they all immigrated to the United States. And then they all start working for Alphabet, so all of, yeah, well, some of them work for Google, some of them work for subsidiaries of Alphabet, which is the parent company of Google.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Wow, that's messy.

• 25:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, very messy, but tha- that will come up. But Tony will compare Ivy to his very first love Jiang, comparing their appearances, their education, which was practically the same, their income, hobbies, interests, even their personality traits. Even going as far to imply that if Ivy was not his wife and had he married Jiang the ex-girlfriend instead of Ivy, he probably would be living better now.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  The fuck?

• 25:46Speaker 00

  I don't think it's very easy to cheat on your partner these days. I feel like everything has a digital footprint. Text messages, emails, Instagram DMs, Snapchat. Yeah, you can make the messages go away, but they can still see when you were last active. I think you can see like top friends or whatever that's changing. You can delete as much as you want, but there's going to be ways that you're gonna get caught. Maybe they're not gonna see the exact messages, but they're gonna see something that's weird. Even things that you think don't have a paper trail, or you forget that they do, like Venmo. A few years ago, even Uber, you you were not able to delete a ride from your ride history on Uber. You can do that now. I think they got a lot of complaints. I don't know why you would need to delete it. Like, who's deleting it? But now they've fixed it so that you can actually delete specific rides from your ride history.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  So when you go to your account and go to ride history, you can delete specific rides. But one of the more common ways as of recently is in the files.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  The what?

• 26:39Speaker 00

  People will cheat in the files.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  What file?

• 26:42Speaker 00

  Google Documents. It sounds so strange, but it's rather common these days. People will use a Google Doc.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Like a shared?

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Doc to have conversations in real time.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Because when you share a Google Doc, people can comment and it updates instantly.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. So they use that as a text message?

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Yes. And no one goes through their partner's Google Docs because you're like, what's in there? Nothing. Work stuff.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  I guess that's very on brand with their job, right?

• 27:13Speaker 00

  So, I mean, but one person on Reddit posts, "My husband used Google Docs for three years to communicate with his affair partner. They had a shared Google Doc where they would talk and make plans. I mean, it was simple but effective. I read it all. The virtual sex, the I love yous, the secret meetings. I had my soon to be ex-husband's password and I would occasionally snoop on his phone to ease my mind. But in three years, I never thought to check Google Docs. In a shared document, you can type back and forth like a chat, even leaving comments to things, and it gets updated in real time. Because typically, people use it to collaborate on work or school projects, and it's unconventional, but that's the whole point. That way, nobody will know who you're talking to. Your partner's going through your text messages,

• 27:55Speaker 00

  highly unlikely they're going through your Google Docs to make sure you're doing anything weird there. So she's just letting everyone know, hey, just so you know, check the Google Docs."

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Wow. Well, we know someone who use cash transfer app, right?

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Yes. So there's like this cash transfer app where you can message someone, I guess, to like send money. And they were using that chat, which is crazy. But it's not public, but still. And Google Docs is also, I think both of them are equally so insane. Especially if it's titled like Google Docs. If it's titled something as boring as like budget sheet for Q two, Q, Q three, who's gonna look at it? If you wanna look at something very private, someone's inner thoughts, something that they're hiding, you might even go through the Apple Notes app. You're not gonna go into Google Docs. You're not gonna go through somebody's Google Docs unless, unless you're Ivy.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  And you happen to stumble upon a Google Doc file between Tony and his first love from college, Jiang, the ex-girlfriend. It is a nearly twenty thousand word document detailing how Tony and Jiang, the ex-girlfriend, miss each other. How right before Tony proposed to Ivy, he had first asked Jiang, the ex-girlfriend, if she would consider transferring to work at Google. Instead of working at Waymo, which is all part of the same umbrella company, but instead of working at Waymo, yes, that's like the driverless cars. She works at Waymo. Transfer to Google, move to the Bay Area because she's working at Waymo in Seattle, move to the Bay Area and they could buy a house together.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  They talk about how Jiang, the ex-girlfriend said, no, I don't wanna do that. And that's why he does everything else with Ivy instead. So once the ex-girlfriend said no, he proposes to Ivy, he gets married to her and they buy a house in the Bay Area together. But he would still be commenting and writing in the Google Doc saying things like, I miss the old days. Which is already bad enough because, you know, why are they still talking to each other? Jiang, the ex-girlfriend also writes that this is supposed to be like a, she started this Google Doc to send it as a, let's get rid of the past feelings and get some closure on our relationship. She says it's more like a personal diary for herself. To just hold on to the things and then write it down and let go of the past.

• 30:06Speaker 00

  But she feels the need to send this Google Doc to Tony and that's how they start this weird conversation. This twenty thousand word conversation on Google Docs.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Wait, so this must, this whole doc was sent by Jiang?

• 30:20Speaker 00

  The ex-girlfriend.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  When did she send this?

• 30:22Speaker 00

  This is way after Tony's married, bought the house, has two cats, everything. This is like two, three months before, before Ivy is killed.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  So Jiang reached out first?

• 30:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Really?

• 30:36Speaker 00

  She reached out first because she said she was just going through a really tough time in her life. She says, out of everyone in her life, he's really the only one that she can confide in. She writes in the document that before all of this, before Tony married Ivy, before Jiang, the ex-girlfriend, got engaged to her boyfriend, Tony was the only one that was there for her. And they were just at different places in their lives. She thought it would be okay to move on. But then she found out that her boyfriend turned fiance that she's dating, he also works for Alphabet. He works for DeepMind, Google DeepMind, yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  This is crazy.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  They all work in the same building?

• 31:14Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no. So they live in Seattle. Jiang, the ex-girlfriend, and her boyfriend live in Seattle, so their offices are in Seattle. And then Tony and Ivy, they work on the Google campus in the Bay Area, but it's massive.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  And they don't really run into each other a lot at work. You'll see why later. But it's just interesting that they all work for the same parent company.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Interesting, uh huh.

• 31:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, September twenty twenty-three, Jiang, the ex-girlfriend, finds out that her fiance has been soliciting sex workers and the two of them end their engagement. She's distressed. She's in need of emotional support and comfort. And the only person that she can think of reaching out to is her ex-boyfriend Tony. Apparently, it's like a thing in these tech-centered areas. So the Bay Area, Seattle, where a lot of the tech companies are centered, they have a lot of these massage parlors that are just fronts for sex work. And a lot of the clientele that go there are just engineers, software engineers, tech bros. They go, they get their massages done. Yeah, they get these massages done. And for the police, it's very easy. It's kind of like what they do on Canal Street where they like bust the counterfeiters.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  It's like a routine. They'll go there every once in a while and just make a bunch of arrests at these massage parlors. And Jiang's now ex-fiance was arrested at one of these massage parlors for soliciting sex work. So she finds out, and I'm sure there's a humiliation aspect to it, because all these tech people, they run in the same circles. She's in need of emotional support. She's in need of comfort. And the only person that she can think of reaching out to is her ex-boyfriend, Tony. She sends him this very lengthy Google document and she says that this is just me trying to get closure on our relationship. As I'm just categorically thinking about every romantic relationship that I've had and what led me to this point in my life,

• 33:03Speaker 00

  where I'm now ending my engagement, I am also looking back at our very long relationship. And I'm having a lot of thoughts and feelings. I didn't even want to send it to you, but I'm gonna send it to you. She writes in the document, "If I had known I would have been betrayed by my fiance like this, I might as well have accepted your request to get back together a few years ago before you married Ivy." You know, the request to move to California, buy a house together. The only problem is, if Tony were to divorce Ivy and start over with Jiang, the ex-girlfriend, she says, "There would be way too much drama." And Jiang, the ex-girlfriend, is not ready for that drama. She also doesn't want that type of reputation to follow her around. And she's like, "You and Ivy bought a house together? So I feel like there's gonna be a lot of financial splitting of the assets and like, no offense, I don't really want to date you if you're broke."

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Damn, she said that?

• 33:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, basically.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Why the hell are you sending this letter then?

• 33:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. So she's like, "You're gonna have a bad reputation. You're also gonna be broke. So I can't be with you, but I just wish I could turn back in time and then take your offer from years ago before you married Ivy. And, you know, that would have been much easier." I just do not have a single clue about the inner workings of such a woman and her mind. But they're both commenting back and forth after she sends this Google document and it's almost like they're texting. And in the document, it's very clear that the two of them have even met up in person. And Ivy's reading this. Yes, they've met up after Ivy's married, has the house. They actually meet up two months before Ivy is dead.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Wait, how did Ivy find this?

• 34:30Speaker 00

  There's two variations. Um, some people suspect that she decided to go looking because there were lots of things sending her sensors off that there was an affair happening. And then there's another version where some people speculate that maybe Tony showed her the document. To say, "See, she's the one that reached out to me. I wasn't the one that was trying to seek her out."

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Hmm, but we know for sure Ivy saw this.

• 34:54Speaker 00

  Because she comments on this Google Doc later. They met about two months before Ivy is killed. And this is around Ivy and Tony's wedding anniversary. Tony decides that he's going to meet his ex-girlfriend. When Ivy sees this Google document, she makes a comment of her own with her own account. And she writes, I hate you. I hate all of you. And she will be dead by the end of that week. Wong and her husband are very nervous. They're waiting outside the front door. They already rang it once. And Wong is, she's reaching for the doorbell again. She's hesitating. She's debating whether or not she should ring it a second time. Or is that, that's way too clingy. When the door opens, standing there at the entryway is Ivy.

• 35:38Speaker 00

  Which is Wong's really good friend. So Wong and her husband are standing there and Ivy just opened the door. Ivy and Wong have been close girlfriends for years now. Their parents even know each other. They have the same trajectory of life. They both immigrated from China and they both work in the tech industry. And they kind of get along in that sense where they just click. Both of them came to the US. They have a bond. And naturally Wong's husband and Tony become friends, but they're not as close as Wong and Ivy. They're just friends because they're the husbands, really. So Wong is checking in on Ivy and she just knows that Ivy is not doing well. When Ivy opens that door, her eyes are bloodshot. It looks like she's been crying all day. And Ivy lets the couple in. Wong and her husband awkwardly sit on the couch in the living room.

• 36:22Speaker 00

  Tony's also there. He's like barely engaging. He's for the most part, very quiet, giving short answers to any and all questions that Wong and her husband ask. Such as, everything okay? Okay. Neither Tony or Ivy mentioned that they were just fighting. Like twenty minutes before Wong and her husband came unannounced. But they don't really need to say anything. Because this is the most awkward living room gathering that they've ever had. Wong and her husband tried to steer the conversation to work. How's work been? Uh, you know, because you were talking about work and Tony will barely respond to any of the questions. Ivy starts responding for him that, oh, he's just anxious with all the ongoing layoffs in the industry. He's just worried about getting laid off and if he does, he's gonna have a hard time finding another job in the industry.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  And then the doorbell rings because Wong and her husband had ordered food and she thought, maybe if we just eat together, it's gonna make it less awkward, like ease some of the tension. They thought it would help. Whatever is happening between Tony and Ivy, it's just very tense and Wong wants to help. So they sit down, they open up all the to-go boxes and Tony is just quiet the entire time. The only time he responds is they go, Tony, do you want some rice? Yeah. That's it. No other response, nothing. He's not even engaging. During dinner, Ivy tries to answer all these questions that Wong and her husband are asking. Oh, yeah, he's just stressed from work. Uh, he was saying that he was having some like auditory hallucinations recently and muscle tension because he's been so stressed.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  Wong and her husband don't really know how to respond exactly because this is the first time that they're hearing about something like this, but they want to be supportive. But they say, it was just weird because Ivy said that he's experiencing all these crazy things from the stress of work, but they don't see anything out of the ordinary. Nothing indicates that he's like listening to the walls and hears voices where they're not coming from. He just seems quiet. He just seems like he's pissed off even, or just got into a fight with his partner. Nothing about it seems like he's having a full mental breakdown. So maybe that's just something he told Ivy. Nobody knows. The rest of that dinner, largely silent. Nobody's really talking.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  Wong and her husband, they just, they're just offering surface level comfort at this point because what else can they do? And as they're about to leave, after the most awkward dinner that they've ever experienced, when they get outside, Wong's husband goes to the car and Wong is standing there. Ivy pulls her aside and she's telling her, I think I'm gonna divorce Tony. What? Why? He's still talking to his ex-girlfriend and we had a fight earlier today and he said things like, my life would have been so much better if it weren't for you.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  When was this in the timeline?

• 39:03Speaker 00

  This is a few hours before Ivy is dead.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  This is the night of?

• 39:07Speaker 00

  The night of. And Wong wants to stay, but Ivy's like, just go. Like, I'll text you tomorrow. Just go. It's fine. Like, you guys already stayed long enough. I mean, what are they gonna do? Go through another awkward dinner? So Wong gets in the car with her husband. They drive off. And they just feel really off about this. I mean, the only reason that they even showed up today is because earlier that day, so they just had dinner with Ivy and Tony. But earlier for lunch, they were hosting this huge lunch gathering with like nine of their closest friends. It's been on the calendar for a while, but Ivy texts Wong last minute telling her, hey, we're not gonna be able to make it to lunch. She's like, what do you mean? Why? Why? We've been planning this for so long. All of our friends are coming. You have to come. And she's like, no, it just Tony's really stressed about work and so I just don't wanna go.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  The whole lunch, Wong feels really weird about this. She's feeling very uncomfortable. And then a few hours right after lunch, Tony's parents call Wong. Cause all their parents know each other back in China. All their parents live in China, but they all kind of know each other and they know that all their kids are friends.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  The parents from China is calling her?

• 40:09Speaker 00

  Yes. So they're not, it's not like, oh, their parents were all family friends and then the kids were friends. It's like all these kids became friends and then they introduced their parents all to one another.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  And they all have each other's WeChat's numbers. So Tony's parents are WeChat calling Wong. And she's like, what's going on? This is so random. She picks up and Tony's parents are like, hey, listen, I would not have called you unless something serious is happening. But have you spoken to Tony or his wife Ivy recently? Tony's, he hasn't been in touch for like the past month and this is very unlike him. And when I tried to talk to Ivy, it seemed like they were going through a fight. It seemed like they were just not doing well. So I don't know what's going on. Wong is like, well, I was supposed to see them for lunch, but they didn't show up. She hangs up and this seems to be the biggest factor of why she goes over for dinner. I think that if she, if her friend just said, I'm not going, maybe she wouldn't have gone for dinner. Because it's very intrusive for her to just barge in and be like, why are you guys fighting?

• 41:06Speaker 00

  Tell me about your fight. Let's talk about work. It seems like a lot, right? But it's the fact that Tony's parents even called her. So she's like, I gotta do something. She gets her husband in the car and is like, we- Have to go visit Tony and Ivy. Like, I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight unless we go visit Tony and Ivy. They even order the food almost as an excuse to stay longer and try to get more answers and try to help more. But it just is so uncomfortable. There's no, there's no talking, there's no reasoning, there's no comforting, there's nothing. The whole night throughout the entire dinner, even after their demeanors are off, they both seem unusually quiet. Ivy, there were moments where Ivy would be responding and then she would just zone out. Tony's even more quiet than normal. So Wong and her husband, they drive home that night and they just cannot shake this feeling that something bad is happening.

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• 45:20Speaker 00

  Tony and Ivy's relationship has been really rocky since the beginning. Technically, on paper, I would say that Tony and Ivy are perfect for each other. At least, most people would think that. Both of them graduated from Tsinghua University, which is one of China's top universities. It's like their Yale, it's their Harvard.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  And even there's, you know, those little quizzes that give you impossible options? Like, you can pick to have one, five million dollars. Your pet gets to live forever, you get to marry your soulmate, you get to graduate from Tsinghua. Most people would choose Tsinghua, because it's not even just, like, you get the respect, the reputation. It is the most elite school that you can get into.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  And education is weighted much heavier in Asia, yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  It doesn't just make you a better work prospect, it's just the prestige. So they both major in computer science and engineering at Tsinghua University. Then both of them immigrate to the US and they finish-

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Does that mean, like, his first love also is from Tsinghua?

• 46:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, then they both immigrate to the US and both Tony and Ivy, they finish their PhD in computer science at UC San Diego. So, once they graduate from UC San Diego, they go naturally to the Bay Area to join, well, they were just trying to join one of the Mango companies. They used to call it something else, but now they call it Mango, so it's Meta, Apple, Nvidia, Google, and OpenAI.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  When you say that, like, they were not dating in college in China, though, right?

• 46:44Speaker 00

  They were not dating at Tsinghua University. They start kind of becoming closer at UC San Diego.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, were they friends?

• 46:52Speaker 00

  Some people say that they knew of each other at Tsinghua.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:56Speaker 00

  But he was still on and off with his ex-girlfriend at Tsinghua University.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  I see.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Then, at UC San Diego, they were friends, they kind of knew each other, and then they started slowly dating.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 47:06Speaker 00

  So, right after graduating, they both don't actually immediately go to Google. Tony goes to Google and Ivy actually goes to Amazon as a software engineer. And Tony specifically starts working at the YouTube Shorts algorithm department of Google. So, on paper, it seems like the two of them are on the same page, their resumes are stacked. But for the very super cutthroat Chinese matchmakers, they would say that Tony is marrying down. Which makes me want to punch the nearest car salesman in my vicinity, but they're just... I just really dislike East Asian culture sometimes, certain aspects, obviously, but they say that for high school. Tony attended Chengdu Number Seven High School. It's widely regarded as one of the top schools in the province, or even the entire country of China. So Chengdu

• 47:51Speaker 00

  Number Seven is known as Key Point High School. So they receive priority when it comes to funding and resources. They get the best teachers. They have the most funding for educational resources. They have a stunning campus that looks more like a college campus than a high school. They have many parks and koi ponds on the campus of a high school. They also have the highest number of kids going to the Ivy Leagues in China. In 2022, that one high school had 70 students admitted into Tsinghua Beijing University. In 2023, 79 students. 2024, 90 students. 2025, 99 students admitted. They also have a study abroad program, which Tony went to for his senior year of the high school. It's $50,000 a semester, just so he can study in the US. Classmates remember Tony coming from a very, very well-off

• 48:34Speaker 00

  family. They believe that his dad was a leader in some sort of government-affiliated organization. He had a thing for model airplanes. He was like a key member of the school's Science and Technology Association that his parents were involved in. He would also write these like study tips for other classmates of like how to systematically remember material. Yeah, he even won a province-wide statewide award when he was in elementary school for outstanding youth citizen of Sichuan Province. So they're saying, he went to this high school, and his parents are very powerful in the government, and they seem very well-off. Ivy also comes from a very good high school, a Key Point High School in her province. Really

• 49:15Speaker 00

  cutthroat school. The school has a very brutal hierarchy, starting in middle school, where you get a rolling class system. So students are ranked and reshuffled based on exam performance.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  You're ranking?

• 49:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, so Class One is known as the Key Point Class. They get the best teachers and the best resources. The brightest students. Toward the end, all the way to Class 27, you really have students that are like left to fend for themselves, if you will. And this high school is already like the smartest of the smart kids. So if you're in the more advanced classes, the elite and Key Point classes, you typically end up studying a lot more. It's relentless. It's normal for students to forego lunch breaks and routinely study past midnight. Some of them will stand up against the walls in the hallway to stay awake to memorize material. The school, though, this school specifically that she went to, so Tony's school, most of the kids were really well-off. Ivy's school, there's a huge wealth gap. Some students come from very privileged backgrounds, similar to Toni.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  They get to eat whatever they want, spend as much money on school supplies as they want, get the latest technology, everything. Whereas students who don't do well, you know who they are because most of the time, they're studying and eating steam buns and pickles.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Is it Ivy?

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, Ivy comes from an average family. It's not, she doesn't come from a family that's not doing well, which honestly, you would think that this is a better catch because.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's more impressive.

• 50:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I guess when you are talking about East Asian culture of prestige and family lineage, they're like, well, Toni's a super catch. And Ivy is just a poor girl who clawed through it to become even more successful. Who cares about that? So she comes from a very average family. I mean, they were okay. So much so that even during Ivy's senior year of high school, Ivy's mom quit her job for a year, which is actually very common. Amongst the, the more average families in terms of socioeconomic status. For the privileged families, usually one of the parents don't work. But for the average families, one of the parents will take off for a year because it's not like the schools in the US where you naturally live very close to your school,

• 51:17Speaker 00

  especially if you're in the public school system, because that's how it's zoned. You go to a school because you live in that zip code. But in China, you have to travel to certain schools, especially if you get into one of these key point high schools. So her mom quit her job, so they rented this tiny little apartment near the high school campus so that she could support her full time. They're known as full-time study support moms. There's like a whole culture and language and groups about it. Parents relocate because they want to eliminate long commutes. They want to make sure that the kids don't have to do laundry, commute. They're cooking all the food. Ivy maintains consistent high rankings all through high school and ultimately she scores seven oh two out of seven fifty on the twenty fourteen.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Gao kao, yeah. Like the exam of the college entry exam.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  And she is the city's science top scholar. So she scores the highest in science. With one teacher saying about Ivy, she's very well behaved and introverted. Not usually expressive, but she was particularly outstanding in the science subjects, still balanced across the others, including English and Mandarin. Her grades are excellent and the Gaokao was exceptional. She also holds herself to very, very high standards. The teacher recalls that one time she forgot to bring her books to class. And the teacher is like, okay, I know you Ivy, like you're not one of those kids that's messing around and forgetting carelessly. Like, it's just one day that you forgot your books. She was like sobbing just in the corner because she was so disappointed in herself. She was so upset with herself for making a dumb mistake like that. But because, and both of them end up at Qinghua.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  But because Tony's parents are high up in government positions and Ivy's parents are just normal, well-to-do people. The matchmaking, according to a lot of people, was not equal. According to a lot of people that you would maybe want to punch in the face. But they're not working with matchmakers. They're just naturally meeting each other at either Qinghua or UC San Diego. They start dating officially around the time that they're at UC San Diego. And a fellow classmate says, their relationship seemed really respectful and harmonious. I mean, that's really the only way that you can describe. They're not really people that tell you a lot, though. So it's not like everyone would know about their dating history. They're not really someone that like posts lovey dovey things on social media. They're not going around just like making out in hallways. They're just very private.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  They say that Ivy barely spoke. I mean, she's very quiet. She's not the type to be like, oh, this is my boyfriend. This is who I'm dating. Let me tell you about my relationship. So people don't really know, but it just seemed like a good match just based off their energies. So when they graduate, they're still dating, now working at separate companies. And Ivy decides that she's going to make the very unusual choice of leaving Amazon to go work at Google. Now, I will say, I have heard that Google is a better working environment than Amazon. However, Ivy was up for a promotion when she left Amazon.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  So they are all making very, very good money.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, estimated probably total compensation, two, three hundred thousand dollars a year.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Each?

• 54:09Speaker 00

  Yes, each.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Okay. But like he was comparing her to her ex in money and income, right? She was, he was talking about that.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I was looking at. I mean, I couldn't get a exact, but based off of their job descriptions. It seemed like maybe the ex-girlfriend was making a few tens of thousands of dollars more a year, which is a lot, but not really when you're making three hundred thousand dollars a year. It's not like one of them is making three hundred thousand dollars and the other one's making fifty thousand dollars.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's almost like he just wanna put her down for whatever, everything, right?

• 54:41Speaker 00

  Everything, because that's what he does at Amazon. So she's working at Amazon and like I said, yes, I have heard that Google is a better working environment. So naturally, a lot of people might leave Amazon to work at Google, depending on the position that they wanna get into. But Ivy is up for a promotion at Amazon. So technically, a lot of people are saying it would be a lot more advantageous had she stayed at Amazon, got the promotion, maybe even worked in that position for a little while and then she could actually, yes.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Reapply.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  To Google and she could probably get in at a better position and a better pay total comp.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  That's, that's what a normal person would do, but why did she move to Google all of a sudden? Like, did she just really wanna work at Google? Was there an opening and she was like, you know what? I don't mind taking a pay cut and I'll just go work at Google. But people who are really close to the couple say that's probably not why. They say that Tony, he's very calm, but he seems really controlling. And there were lots of, from what people remember, tense fights about Tony doesn't know anyone at Amazon. And he doesn't know if Ivy is talking to or potentially even flirting with a lot of male colleagues, cuz he would never know. He just always seemed very anxious that Ivy was cheating on him, which seems like a masterclass in just projection. But one person close to the couple states that Ivy was not excited to work at Google.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  I mean, she likes Google, but like she was really excited to get promoted at Amazon. She was about to be up for this promotion. She had her whole career track that was going well. It would make more sense to get the promotion and then, you know, move to a different company. The only reason she moved was to maintain her relationship with Tony. There were rumors that Tony at gatherings with people, a former classmate of theirs would say, okay, it was weird. During gatherings, he would constantly be glued to her side and he would just watch her closely. But it doesn't come off as like the kind of closeness that you affect. Expect from a very affectionate couple of like, oh, he just wants to be by her. Oh, he just wants to help her when she's grabbing something. It almost seems like he's analyzing every single person that she's talking to, every single thing that she's saying. It feels like he's monitoring her. It didn't feel sweet.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  It didn't feel, oh, like he's just a little protect. It just felt creepy. It felt overbearing and uncomfortable, like aggressively possessive to the point where the two of them would get into some sort of argument at the gathering. They're never like fighting in front of people, but it's like, you can tell that they fought. At the gathering because suddenly the energy shifts. Everybody's uncomfortable. It's just something happened. He felt like she could easily form close bonds with male employees. So there were rumors that he's constantly accusing her of cheating on him with male colleagues. He wouldn't even let her go shopping with female friends without his presence there. So he convinces her to come to Google. And he's like, it's actually going to be a lot more convenient for us too, because we could commute together. And like, we have the same perks, like it's just, and Google's better.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  Everybody likes working at Google more, which again valid, but like, you know? Meanwhile, Ivy misses out on a potential promotion, starts a whole new job. Tony is out there telling friends while this is happening. She's giving up all of this. Tony is out there telling friends, I didn't even really want to get married to begin with. I just kind of felt pressured because everybody around me is getting married. Everybody around me is buying a house. Everybody's having a kid, so I just thought that that's what I have to do. And I just thought the person that I would do that with is Ivy because she's the one that I'm dating. And with that, I'm going to leave you with part one of this audio podcast. Part two is going to be up ASAP, but in part two, we're going to go through the trial, all of the victim blaming that happens because everybody.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  I think the reason is no one can really understand or grasp why Tony did what he did.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  And then we know what happened that night yet?

• 58:18Speaker 00

  Yes, we know how he killed her and it's worse than what most people will think. And then all the victim blaming comes afterwards because nobody understands why he killed her. And there are people out there who genuinely think, well, there must be a reason. And it's just so sick. The trial was a mess, a lot of Chinese netizens. They came to court in person. A lot of Chinese Americans who have nothing to do with the tech industry, they showed up to the courthouse in SF to just figure out what the hell is happening.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Was ex-girlfriend there?

• 58:48Speaker 00

  Ex-girlfriend testified. She was forced to testify and people hate her. So with that being said, stay tuned for part two and stay safe. I'll see you in the next one.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  Twenty years after Natalie Holloway disappeared on a high school graduation trip to Aruba, Natalie's mother, Beth, is ready to tell the complete story. Taken: Natalie Holloway is a three-part series that follows Beth's relentless pursuit of answers and justice for her daughter and gives a fuller picture of who Natalie was as a person. It's the definitive account of a case that gripped multiple nations and never let go. Watch Taken: Natalie Holloway, November 4th, only on Netflix.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. And one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update, and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. From plumbing to electrical, roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at angie.com.