Pod Insights Rosebud with Gyles Brandreth More Rosebud - Gyles's Diaries episode 41 About this episode It's 1975 and new father Gyles Brandreth is multi-tasking, like any young parent. One day he's feeding the ducks in Regent's Park with his new baby, the next, spearheading the campaign for Britain to remain in the European Common Market. He's also planning his next Oxford Theatre Festival, learning to play bridge, and being interviewed by the Mail. Plus Gyles and Harriet chat about their favourite day of the week, and snoring. Enjoy this!
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0:56 Speaker 02 Hello and welcome to another episode of More Rosebud. If you're listening to this in real time, it's a Tuesday because these episodes always drop at about 3:00 a.m. on a Tuesday morning. Tuesday's a really good day of the week for me, and it always has been. In fact, we're going to begin my diaries again in a moment. I know we've been a bit all over the place in recent weeks, but basically, the rule is on More Rosebud, every other week, an episode of Gyles's diaries from yesteryear, and we're back in the 1970s, 1975. We're going to begin on Tuesday, the 18th of March, 1975. But this Tuesday, I want to say hello to my friend, mentor, the producer of Rosebud.
1:40 Speaker 02 It is Harriet Jane.
1:42 Speaker 03 Hello.
1:43 Speaker 02 Harriet, do you have a favorite day of the week?
1:47 Speaker 03 I think it's probably Friday.
1:51 Speaker 02 Ooh.
1:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, which is a bit of a cliche, isn't it? I think a lot of people like Fridays.
1:55 Speaker 02 Thank God it's Friday.
1:56 Speaker 03 Yeah. I think I've told you before, my favorite children's book was Grimble by Clement Freud.
2:03 Speaker 02 I do know that. I remember that.
2:05 Speaker 03 Of whom we have spoken on this podcast. And in that book, there's a whole couple of paragraphs about how Wednesday is the best day of the week. Because no one likes Mondays. Friday, it's too late to start anything. You can't start anything on a Friday, but Wednesday's perfect because you've got over the beginning of the week and you can start something on a Wednesday and get it done.
2:30 Speaker 02 That's very good. I love Monday.
2:32 Speaker 03 Oh.
2:33 Speaker 02 Because I love the start of the week.
2:34 Speaker 03 Woo hoo.
2:34 Speaker 02 Yay, we're back at it. Yeah, yeah. But also, of course, I do love the weekend because everybody else is slacking and I'm still at my desk. It's ridiculous.
2:43 Speaker 03 Oh, gosh.
2:44 Speaker 02 Well, I I like to be at work when everybody else isn't, you know, so I love working on Christmas Day and bank holidays and all of that. So I love a Monday because I but I'm lucky, you see, I've always been self-employed. So if you're self-employed, you have to work all the time. But one of the downsides of being self-employed is that you're working seven days a week. So Sunday used to be a special day to me and it's not as special as once it was.
3:13 Speaker 03 Hmm. You do need to take some time off sometimes though, don't you?
3:16 Speaker 02 Well.
3:17 Speaker 03 For your for your mental health and your well-being.
3:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, well, I don't know about that. I seriously don't know about that.
3:24 Speaker 03 Child.
3:24 Speaker 02 Do you remember?
3:26 Speaker 03 By the way, listeners, do not take any of Giles's advice to heart because he thinks you could work the whole time, but actually you do need to take breaks.
3:36 Speaker 02 You need variety.
3:37 Speaker 03 Variety, yeah.
3:38 Speaker 02 Do you remember a director, stage and film director called Peter Hall, eventually Sir Peter Hall?
3:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:45 Speaker 02 The founding director of the Royal Shakespeare Company back at the beginning of the nineteen sixties.
3:49 Speaker 03 One of the husbands of Leslie.
3:51 Speaker 02 Karen, who indeed has been a Rosebud guest. Well, I knew Sir Peter reasonably well and he was always accused of being a workaholic. And his line was that actually, you want to be stimulated, you want to be doing different things. Yes, if you're doing the same thing, of course, if you are driving a train or you're a surgeon or you're working in an office, of course, you will need variety, you need a break from that. But actually, if you are. Directing an opera from Monday to Friday, then on Saturday, if you're painting a picture or writing a paragraph of your diaries, and then on Sunday, you're doing something else,
4:33 Speaker 02 going on a drive to maybe look for locations. That's quite good. Of course, you need holidays occasionally now and then.
4:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:40 Speaker 02 So I think, I think horses for courses.
4:43 Speaker 03 I think I need more breaks than you. Sometimes I just gaze out the window.
4:49 Speaker 02 I know. I, I agree. And I know I'm very bad at this. I, there probably is a middle ground between us.
4:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:55 Speaker 02 Um, so what, what was the answer to my question? Do you have a favorite day of the week? Is it Wednesday?
5:00 Speaker 03 No, I said Friday.
5:01 Speaker 02 Friday.
5:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:02 Speaker 02 Because it's the end of the week, but you work on Saturdays, you work on Sundays.
5:05 Speaker 03 Well, I mean, it's out the window now because I'm working Saturdays, Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays.
5:10 Speaker 02 Yay, this is the, this is the Rosebud way.
5:13 Speaker 03 I mean, as you said, three in the morning, I'm up releasing a podcast.
5:16 Speaker 02 You are.
5:17 Speaker 03 So Fridays don't quite have the joie de vivre they used to have, but I still fondly remember that Friday feeling and I do still get it.
5:27 Speaker 02 I love a Sunday because it is an official day of rest, you know, on the seventh day. Uh, we are resting. Uh, I used to regularly go to church at eight o'clock on a Sunday morning, which I quite liked. Got out of the habit of that. You go on a Sunday evening at six o'clock.
5:44 Speaker 03 I do. I tell you partly why, actually, because for me, Sunday evening is not a good time.
5:51 Speaker 02 A lot of people have a low on a Sunday evening, don't they?
5:53 Speaker 03 I get, I get nerves. I still get butterflies in my.
5:56 Speaker 02 You mean the back to school thing?
5:57 Speaker 03 Back to school nerves. And, um, so for me, going to church, Sunday evening's perfect. It deals with that. It's, um, a moment of calm and, and contemplation before the week begins.
6:10 Speaker 02 Oh, that butterflies in the stomach on a Sunday evening.
6:14 Speaker 03 I don't know why I get that. I mean, as you say, now that I do tend to work all days of the week, this is all a bit academic, but yes, I definitely used to get that feeling of Sunday, I'd start.
6:28 Speaker 03 Low level worrying about what I had to do the following week and thinking, oh dear, I, you know, I'm not, I'm worried about that or that's not organised or, yeah, and I, I've never really shaken that off. That's why I like, um, Sunday night TV. You know, that's sort of relaxing.
6:43 Speaker 02 Well, that's why, for people who belong to the Rosebud family, you chose, you decided to actually drop our Sunday episode on, uh, the afternoon time.
6:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:52 Speaker 02 So it's ready for tea if you want, just because of that nostalgic feel that you have.
6:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:56 Speaker 02 For Sunday night television.
6:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:58 Speaker 02 And feeling sort of cosy.
7:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:00 Speaker 02 Um.
7:01 Speaker 03 To calm people down on a Sunday.
7:02 Speaker 02 But I think actually what I'm, I do do, I do maintain variety.
7:07 Speaker 03 Hmm.
7:07 Speaker 02 So, you know, the coming weekend, Saturday, I am, uh, going out for breakfast with Michelle, my wife. We're going out for a little treat breakfast and then I'm being taken to a television studio somewhere to record a programme called The Wheel.
7:21 Speaker 03 Oh.
7:21 Speaker 02 I don't think you've ever seen this programme.
7:23 Speaker 03 I need to watch it.
7:24 Speaker 02 It's fun. The host is Michael McIntyre.
7:27 Speaker 03 Hmm.
7:27 Speaker 02 And then they have sort of eight people or six people, eight people maybe, in a kind of enormous contraption being spun around. It's a quiz show and people can win huge amounts of money and you have to, you have a subject that you're the specialist on and they ask a question to you, you're supposed to help them win the money. I've, I've lost so much money for so many nice people.
7:45 Speaker 03 Oh no, Giles.
7:46 Speaker 02 I've taken part in every series and I've had subjects I should know something about, you know, Shakespeare.
7:50 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:51 Speaker 02 English literature, uh, royals.
7:53 Speaker 03 Oh dear.
7:53 Speaker 02 History, prime ministers. And every time I seem to, you know, fail.
7:58 Speaker 03 Oh, Giles, do you feel bad?
8:01 Speaker 02 Well, I'm actually, fun enough, I'm getting anxious now about this coming weekend's one. So that's my Saturday and then Sunday.
8:08 Speaker 03 Which, what, sorry, what topic have you picked?
8:10 Speaker 02 I'm not allowed to tell you until you watch.
8:12 Speaker 03 Oh.
8:13 Speaker 02 Cause that would kill the excitement.
8:15 Speaker 03 Okay.
8:15 Speaker 02 But it's a topic very close to my heart and Michelle's heart, cause she's going to be in the audience and I'll be wearing a jumper to go with it. So I may have given you quite a few clues there.
8:27 Speaker 03 Very good, yeah.
8:28 Speaker 02 So that's quite fun. And also it's quite fun to see who the other guests are, uh, the other, in quotes, celebrities. Sometimes I appear on celebrity shows and frankly, they're using the word celebrity very loosely, cause they haven't heard of anybody else involved.
8:42 Speaker 03 Well, the, you might just, you know, they might just be much younger or, or they might be influencers or they might be social media people, Giles. We don't know everyone. It's amazing, Giles doesn't know everyone.
8:55 Speaker 02 I'm having a panic attack here, I'm having a panic attack, everybody.
8:58 Speaker 03 I'm fanning, Giles, calm down, Giles, it's okay.
9:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, you're right, I've got to, I've got to actually accept that I don't know everybody. But I like to feel I know everybody, which is why I do these things. Then on Sunday, I shall be going to, oh, the other Sunday, I went to Maureen Lipman's 80th birthday party. She had a Sunday brunch.
9:15 Speaker 03 Oh, that sounds fun.
9:17 Speaker 02 It's fantastic. When I've got to the age where people are having 80th, 90th, 100th birthdays, and they're friends of mine, it's fantastic.
9:25 Speaker 03 That is fantastic. So she had a brunch party?
9:27 Speaker 02 She had a brunch, she had a brunch party. We were very honoured to be there, because it was really just family. And of course, she's been a guest on Rosebud, and she's on tour, as am I. So I was, on Sundays, I've been doing this tour, the length and breadth of the country. So it's a bit different from my Monday to Friday, because my feeling is if it's a bit different, then it's okay, because it's a bit of a change. But you on Sunday, you're going sailing.
9:49 Speaker 03 I think I am going sailing this Sunday, yes, with these nice people I met on my sailing course, who've got a baby and they're great, yeah.
9:57 Speaker 02 Oh, speaking of babies, is it time for diaries, or should we do an email first?
10:01 Speaker 03 I hope they're not going to put the baby in the boat. I don't think that's safe.
10:03 Speaker 02 You put the baby in the bath water, didn't you?
10:05 Speaker 03 Put the baby in the bath water. Uh, I've got an email.
10:08 Speaker 02 You put the baby in a, they have little harnesses for babies, don't they?
10:11 Speaker 03 I don't think you could put a baby in these boats that we're sailing. But we'll see, maybe.
10:16 Speaker 02 But also, babies are quite buoyant, aren't they?
10:18 Speaker 03 They're very good swimmers, babies.
10:20 Speaker 02 Are they?
10:20 Speaker 03 Very good.
10:21 Speaker 02 Oh, really?
10:22 Speaker 03 I think apparently you should get them going straight away.
10:24 Speaker 02 You should just throw them. Well, there was a famous book, wasn't there? Who's it by? Called The Water Babies.
10:29 Speaker 03 Oh, Charles Kingsley.
10:30 Speaker 02 We said it simultaneously. Is it a lovely book?
10:33 Speaker 03 I don't think I've actually read it.
10:35 Speaker 02 We might read it.
10:36 Speaker 03 Yes. Is that about baby swimming? Probably not.
10:39 Speaker 02 They're the water babies. I think it is. I think it's about, they're like fairies.
10:43 Speaker 03 Oh, that sounds so sweet.
10:44 Speaker 02 And I think they're fairies, but they're water babies. Shall we both try and read The Water Babies and report back?
10:50 Speaker 03 I love the sound of The Water Babies.
10:52 Speaker 02 It was a very famous book.
10:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think I've got a copy of it somewhere.
10:55 Speaker 02 I think I've got a copy of it somewhere. Let us read The Water Babies and report. And if you are reading The Water Babies at the moment and would like to report to us on what you make of it, the address is simply [email protected] . We've had an email and we've, actually we've had hundreds of emails and may I apologize on behalf of my producer, Harriet Jane. She's so keen on taking time off at weekends that she's found no time to respond to the letters that we invite you to send, which is a pretty poor show in my view.
11:25 Speaker 03 It's got really bad, I have to admit, and I really do apologize to anyone, particularly over the last, I would say, four to six weeks, where my response rate's really taken a nosedive. So I do apologize. We're going to try to work through the backlog, but I have got an email here. So thank you to Carmel Maguire.
11:49 Speaker 02 Oh, great name.
11:50 Speaker 03 I love the name Carmel. It's great, isn't it? It's very glamorous, I think. Dear Harriet and Giles, I just want to let you know that your-
11:58 Speaker 02 I just have to interrupt here.
12:00 Speaker 03 Oh.
12:00 Speaker 02 Just to say, listeners, if you're going to do alphabetical billing, it's Giles and Harriet. If you're going to do billing by age, it's Giles and Harriet. If you're going to be doing billing by presenter-producer, it's Giles and Harriet. I have noticed that almost every email is Dear Harriet and Giles, sometimes simply Dear Harriet.
12:23 Speaker 03 Because they want me to reply and then I don't even reply.
12:26 Speaker 02 No, no. Do you know, it's quite interesting, me having to accept this, and I am accepting it. Just want to know, listeners, just Dear Harriet and Giles, it's fine. It's fine.
12:37 Speaker 03 That's what this says. Dear Harriet and Giles, I just want to let you know that your podcasts are keeping me sane while I suffer with insomnia and my husband is snoring happily beside me. Oh, no. Could be the reason for the insomnia there, Carmel, you know. I'm a lover of biographies, so your podcasts are wonderful to listen to. Anyway, you have inspired my latest art collection, which is all things floral. I want to add colour and positivity, just like you guys do. Thank you so much. You have no idea how much happiness your podcasts give
13:18 Speaker 03 me. I'll attach some images for you. Keep up the wonderful work. Best wishes, Carmel. She's sent some pictures of her pretty pictures. This one says, keep blooming.
13:29 Speaker 02 Oh, these are rather good. In fact, they're lovely. They're beautiful. They're irises, are they? Keep blooming. I love that.
13:37 Speaker 03 It's nice, isn't it?
13:38 Speaker 02 It's difficult, actually, if you do suffer from insomnia. What's your cure at the moment?
13:43 Speaker 03 Um, I have taken to listening to one of our former guests, Sir David Suchet, reading the Bible, which, I mean, I don't want to say it's boring, because it's not. It's the Bible. It's the greatest story ever told, read by a very, very good person and lovely voice. But yes, it does help me to drift off. So yeah, I'm on sort of, I've listened to loads of it now.
14:13 Speaker 02 You're on, you've gone through Genesis, you've gone through Exodus?
14:16 Speaker 03 Probably. I don't, I've no idea.
14:18 Speaker 02 Probably on Leviticus by now.
14:19 Speaker 03 Because I only hear one line and then I fall asleep.
14:21 Speaker 02 You nod straight off. We ought to tell people, in fact, later this year, we are going to be recording, Harriet and I, some stories together that I think you may enjoy and might actually help you with your insomnia that's teasing you up there. I am currently working on our Edinburgh show in my head, which I quite like doing. I take it from the top, I take the entrances, and I'm sort of working on the script in my head. And I get really good bits, and then I fall asleep. In the morning, I can't remember what they were.
14:51 Speaker 03 Oh, I don't think this is the best thing to do in bed, Giles. You should be doing this at your death.
14:55 Speaker 02 So what I'm now doing is I'm having good ideas and I'm going to the bathroom and I'm getting out my phone and I'm then, because I think if I dictated, the bathroom would be too loud, I'm typing into the
15:06 Speaker 03 Oh, good.
15:06 Speaker 02 Typing into my mobile overnight, my thoughts.
15:09 Speaker 03 Yeah. And some people do swear by having a pad by the bed, don't they? You can write down worries or thoughts in the night.
15:15 Speaker 02 But I can't, I can't turn on the light to do that.
15:18 Speaker 03 I thought you had the light on for the cat.
15:20 Speaker 02 Yes, but it's not, we do have the light on for the cat, but it's not bright enough to see and write by. What I need is the nictograph.
15:28 Speaker 03 Did you invent that?
15:29 Speaker 02 No, Lewis Carroll invented the nictograph. I have written about it.
15:34 Speaker 03 I've heard about that.
15:35 Speaker 02 I've told you about it.
15:36 Speaker 03 Go on, go on.
15:37 Speaker 02 Well, it's a machine because he suffered from terrible insomnia, poor Lewis Carroll. And it was he, and in those days, of course, he's Victorian, there was no light switch, you wouldn't flick on the light, you had to get up and light your gas lamp. It's kind of complicated business.
15:49 Speaker 03 It's actually a bit of a nightmare.
15:50 Speaker 02 Yeah.
15:50 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:51 Speaker 02 Uh, or put on the candle, they wanted to burn the bedclothes.
15:53 Speaker 03 Oh, gosh, yeah.
15:54 Speaker 02 My pa- my father smoked so much in bed that I remember towards the end of his life, helping um him actually make the bed. Uh, one day, and there were so many holes on his side of the bed where he had fallen asleep smoking a cigarette. And they'd burnt holes just on his side of the sheet. Me and my mother slept side by side. She never smoked. He smoked voraciously, furiously, and there were all these holes.
16:22 Speaker 03 So dangerous, isn't it? My mum smoked in bed as well, and above her head was a sort of halo of brown nicotine stain. I mean, awful. People were terribly unhealthy in those days.
16:37 Speaker 02 My father had a streak of nicotine in his hair.
16:40 Speaker 03 Oh, no.
16:41 Speaker 02 Because he would sit at his desk, holding a cigarette in one hand with his hand on his forehead. And the, and he had a sort of like a rather elegant, in fact, streak of.
16:50 Speaker 03 No, lots of people had that.
16:51 Speaker 02 Uh, bizarre, isn't it? So, uh, I've got all sorts of cures for insomnia.
16:57 Speaker 03 Hmm.
16:57 Speaker 02 My third or fourth book, we may come to it in my diaries, was called Brandreth's Bedroom Book.
17:02 Speaker 03 Hmm.
17:03 Speaker 02 And it was full of cures for insomnia.
17:04 Speaker 03 It wasn't, it could have been something else that, Gyles, Brandreth Bedroom Book. I'm glad it's Cures for Insomnia.
17:11 Speaker 02 Yes.
17:12 Speaker 03 Not smutty stories from Brandreth's Bedroom.
17:16 Speaker 02 There was none of that. There were games to play, though.
17:18 Speaker 03 Okay.
17:19 Speaker 02 It was a fun book for all the family.
17:21 Speaker 03 Oh.
17:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:22 Speaker 03 Nice.
17:22 Speaker 02 Um, I'm reading a biography at night at the moment, The Biography of Jan Morris.
17:27 Speaker 03 Hmm, very good.
17:29 Speaker 02 Finding quite interesting. I'll bring a report to you when I've got to the end of it. Um, anyway, shall we go on to the diaries?
17:35 Speaker 03 Mmm.
17:35 Speaker 02 This may send some people to sleep.
17:38 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:38 Speaker 02 No harm in that.
17:39 Speaker 03 No, in fact, we love the fact people sleep to us, don't we?
17:43 Speaker 02 And you can always go back and listen again.
17:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:45 Speaker 02 So you're not missing anything.
17:46 Speaker 03 No, so no loud sudden noises, Giles.
17:49 Speaker 02 No loud sudden noises!
17:50 Speaker 03 Giles, you can't do that!
17:52 Speaker 02 Well, I've just done it.
17:53 Speaker 03 Oh.
17:53 Speaker 02 You can cut it though.
17:54 Speaker 03 Woken up Carmel, actually Carmel's awake.
17:57 Speaker 02 Carmel's awake, it's her husband. And we need to wake him up because this snoring. Wake him up, nudge him now!
18:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:03 Speaker 02 Carmel's husband, this is Gyles Brandreth speaking. I think you need to lose some weight.
18:07 Speaker 03 Oh!
18:08 Speaker 02 That's the essence of it.
18:09 Speaker 03 Giles!
18:09 Speaker 02 You need to lose some weight, you need not to sleep on your back the way you do. If it's a more serious issue, if you, you know, uh, you may be having a sleep apnea, go and see the GP. But I suspect that either you're smoking still, or you had one glass too many of wine last night.
18:26 Speaker 03 Oh, damn.
18:27 Speaker 02 Uh, you're sleeping on your back and you're a little bit overweight. I'm saying the things that Carmel doesn't dare say to you, and they, uh, you just need to be told these things, okay?
18:39 Speaker 03 Stop, not everyone who snores is overweight, don't you snore?
18:44 Speaker 02 Not since I lost the weight.
18:45 Speaker 03 Oh.
18:46 Speaker 02 Not since I dropped, stopped the drinking. Not since I started sleeping on my side and not on my back. I'm not, I'm speaking, if I may say so, from the lived experience.
18:57 Speaker 03 Oh.
18:57 Speaker 02 So I know Carmel what it is like, because my wife has, um, also couldn't sleep when I was snoring.
19:04 Speaker 03 Mmm.
19:05 Speaker 02 And I also know it can be serious because I had a sister, my sister Jennifer did suffer from sleep apnea.
19:09 Speaker 03 Mmm.
19:10 Speaker 02 So it can be a more serious issue.
19:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
19:13 Speaker 02 But if you want to share a bed with someone, basic courtesy requires no snoring.
19:20 Speaker 03 Gosh, I've never known you be so forthright, Giles. Well, anyway, there you go, everyone.
19:26 Speaker 02 Isn't that fair enough? Don't you think it's fair enough?
19:30 Speaker 03 Probably.
19:32 Speaker 02 She doesn't. Well, there's no-
19:33 Speaker 03 I'm sitting on the fence.
19:34 Speaker 02 There's no harm. It's quite a fun place to sit. There's no harm in us not actually agreeing on something. And I was speaking bloke to bloke.
19:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, exactly.
19:44 Speaker 02 Exactly.
19:44 Speaker 03 Exactly.
19:45 Speaker 02 Tuesday, the 18th of March, 1975. On the back page of today's Times newspaper, the following. On the 13th of March, at the Middlesex Hospital, London W1, to Michelle Brown, wife of Gyles Brandreth, a son, Bennett Zan.
20:03 Speaker 03 Hmm.
20:04 Speaker 02 On the front page, Mr Wedgwood Ben, Secretary of State for Industry, is widening the scope of the government's plans to nationalise the shipbuilding and aircraft industries. Mr Callahan, the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, says the Cabinet is likely to recommend a yes vote in the referendum on the renegotiated terms of our membership of the European Economic Community. And in Ireland, Protestants and Catholics have spent the night killing one another. Inside, there's a photograph of the Queen meeting Barbra Streisand at last night's royal film performance of Funny Lady. And I even get a mention in the Times diary, a small item about Scrabble.
20:47 Speaker 03 Hmm.
20:48 Speaker 02 Michelle and Bennett are set to come home on Thursday. We're ready and waiting. Cot in place, pram in hallway, nappies folded, Johnson's baby powder, Vaseline etcetera by the changing mat. The good thing about the announcement in the Times is that it lets people know we are married. Some people, like our friend Siddle Fletcher, have been saying, pulling pained but friendly faces, how different you would feel if you were married, not realising that we already were.
21:18 Speaker 02 Everyone seems to find Bennett's names a challenge. We love them. Bennett was Michelle's choice. At first, I was backing Max. Bennett suits him perfectly. I've registered the birth. We are not planning a christening. The family is coping.
21:36 Speaker 03 Oh, let me just ask you some questions, Giles, sorry.
21:39 Speaker 02 Hmm.
21:40 Speaker 03 About names, because it's a fun subject, isn't it? So Bennett, B E N E T.
21:48 Speaker 02 It's the name, I think, of Saint Bennett, who founded the monastery where the venerable Bede wrote his famous history of the church in England.
22:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:02 Speaker 02 And Michelle, my wife, was into medieval history and was an admirer of the works of the venerable Bede. Knew about Saint Bennett, felt he was an old English name. Bennett, of course, is a contraction of Benedict. Bennett means a blessing. So an old English name that means a blessing when you're first born is born and is a blessing. It also has simplicity. You could have related it to Ben if you wanted to. It's a good shout name, you know. Bennett, come here. So we were very, very pleased with that. Xan, X A N. I'd known someone at university who was called Xan. There was, I think, quite a well-known explorer called Xan Fielding. These may have been abbreviations for Alexander, I don't know.
22:47 Speaker 02 But X N, we thought B X B. These are the initials to count for. Why are you called Harriet?
22:55 Speaker 03 I don't know.
22:57 Speaker 02 Oh, for goodness' sake.
22:58 Speaker 03 No, I don't know.
22:59 Speaker 02 Can't wait to meet your dad to ask about this.
23:01 Speaker 03 I don't think my dad knows. He just likes the name.
23:04 Speaker 02 Goodness sake, can't just say I like the name. I've given you cogent reasons for Bennett being called Bennett.
23:09 Speaker 03 Well, I know, that's the sort of thing you do, though, Giles.
23:13 Speaker 02 What about your middle name?
23:14 Speaker 03 And my dad didn't even, he denied even knowing that was my middle name when I told him.
23:20 Speaker 02 So it's Hajj, H A J is your initials. Hajj, Hajj. I like Harriet, that's good.
23:26 Speaker 03 I don't know, it, it sort of places you quite a lot.
23:30 Speaker 02 It does, it gives you all the Harriets I know of your vintage.
23:34 Speaker 03 And you, you're nothing other than English, middle class.
23:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:42 Speaker 02 I don't wish.
23:43 Speaker 03 I think it pigeonholes you.
23:44 Speaker 02 Can I say, there is nothing better in the world than being English and middle class. There may be things that are equally good, but in my view, there's nothing better in the world. The reason I wrote my autobiography, Odd Boy Out, is I wanted to show that English middle class people have problems, feelings, aspirations, highs and lows, like, not quite like everybody else, but in the same way that everybody else does, they do too. Don't be embarrassed about being English and middle class. It's one of your chief attractions. Okay.
24:18 Speaker 03 Oh, you're really not holding back this episode. We're gonna get a few complaint emails that I then won't respond to.
24:24 Speaker 02 No, pass them on to me and I will respond.
24:26 Speaker 03 Oh, dear.
24:26 Speaker 02 No, I'm just, it's nice to be.
24:28 Speaker 03 You've told someone off for snoring and now you're.
24:30 Speaker 02 Well, fair enough.
24:31 Speaker 03 extolling the virtues of English middle class.
24:33 Speaker 02 I am, because everybody in the world wants to be English and middle class.
24:38 Speaker 03 Possibly, well.
24:39 Speaker 02 Not necessarily everybody in the world, because I am reading the biography of Jan Morris, who wanted to be Welsh, um, but anyway.
24:53 Speaker 00 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.
25:29 Speaker 02 Thursday, twenty seventh, March, nineteen seventy five.
25:33 Speaker 02 I am now officially director of the European Movement's People for Europe campaign. Getting this far has not been easy, simply because the Britain in Europe organisation is being run by a load of anxious old buffers who are terrified that anyone will do anything risky or interesting. My Wombles for Europe idea has been vetoed, of course, ditto Odd Odes for Europe, but the introductory press release, bland as it is, has been approved by Sir Con and Co. Sir Con O'Neill, Harriet, he was the director of the Britain in Europe campaign, and he'd been a diplomat, leading Britain's negotiations to join the EEC. So the idea was that I was supposed to be a young influencer, because then I am in
26:16 Speaker 02 my, you know, mid twenties, trying to encourage people to, to vote yes in the, the referendum that is going to get us into the European Economic Community. So, my press release has been approved and has gone out from Europe House today. The People for Europe campaign, says Brandreth, won't be involving professional politicians at all. It won't involve heavyweight industrialists or earnest trade union officials either. It will involve all kinds of other people, many of them very famous, lots of them very young, and its object will be to present an exciting, comprehensible and credible picture of the advantages of Britain's continuing membership of the EEC.
26:58 Speaker 02 Our aim is to produce a layman's guide to Europe and telephone information centres in the UK's ten largest cities.
27:06 Speaker 03 Wow.
27:06 Speaker 02 I'm running it from home, though they are letting me have a corner of a desk at Europe House, so-called, actually cramped, overcrowded, open-plan desks at the back of the National Liberal Club behind Shering Cross Station. I have bought Easter eggs. In his powder-blue perambulator, Michelle and I will be taking our son to feed the ducks in Regent's Park before taking part in his first Brandreth family traditional Easter egg hunt. Yes, he's only two weeks old today, but he is very advanced.
27:39 Speaker 02 Sunday the 11th of May 1975. Anxious letter from Archie Kirkwood, Youth Coordinator, Britain in Europe. He's fretting about our press conference and our finances. These people don't have enough to do. The truth is, we have done well. All the people I have recruited have donated £5 to the cause and we have quality names. Peter Eustonov, Richard Briers. Why are you laughing? Why is Harriet laughing in the background? This is 50 years ago. £5 is a decent amount of money. And wait, wait, listen to this, Harriet. I agree, I'm in my mid twenties, I may be ridiculous, but I was in charge of People for Europe and I will go on reading the diary.
28:23 Speaker 02 Listeners, do you realise my producer is subverting me? As I'm trying to read my diaries, she is snickering, mocking me in the background. I will try and start that sentence again. All the people I've recruited have donated £5 to the cause and we have quality names. Peter Eustonov, Richard Briers, Paul Eddington. Everyone is loving the good life. The European life will be even better. David Bailey, Michael York, Antoinette Sibley, Katie Boyle, Robert Powell, J B Priestley, et cetera, et cetera. £380 to date, with Henry Moore and Dirk Bogot coming in with £10 apiece and Frederick Forsyth stumping up £20.
29:05 Speaker 03 Wow.
29:06 Speaker 02 The press conference is scheduled for Thursday and we're going ahead with it, regardless of wee Archie. I'm now off to the Polygon Hotel, Southampton, to chair the Wessex Youth for Europe Rally. John Selwyn Gummer is giving me a lift. He looks like a carrot, but he knows his stuff.
29:28 Speaker 02 This, this is John Selwyn Gummer, who became John Gummer, or I think is now Lord Gummer or somewhere along the line.
29:34 Speaker 03 Looks like a carrot.
29:35 Speaker 02 Well, he was small, he had red hair. Yes, this is what, the thing about a diary is you just write it on the day.
29:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:41 Speaker 02 And you don't have regard to what political correctness 50 years hence may regard as acceptable or not. These are my diaries, unvarnished and so far, unedited by Harriet, but who knows what will happen. Tuesday 20th May 1975.
30:01 Speaker 02 Our People for Europe press reception at the London Palladium went well, I think. Slightly motley turnout: Nicholas Parsons, Viscount Weymouth, Lord Montego Beulie, Tom Hustler, Sheila Scott. Christopher Hitchens, representing the new statesman, stood at the bar in a combat jacket, drinking, smoking, and raising a cynical brow above a very watery and bloodshot eye. I think he's completely ridiculous. He thinks I am completely ridiculous, but we have Oxford in common and we like one another. The photographers took our two actresses, Doris Hare and Patricia Hayes, into the
30:43 Speaker 02 street outside the theatre and got the game old birds to do high kicks by a one-way road sign, with a bemused Andrew Lloyd Webber looking on. He was our star attraction, but he lacks star personality. He can barely string a sentence together. He wore an open-necked floral shirt under a crumpled old sports jacket, grubby trousers, belt with a huge buckle, and terrible posture. Cry from Michelle in background: "You're not one to talk." That was addressed to me.
31:14 Speaker 03 Oh dear.
31:15 Speaker 02 I'm hoping that Lord Lloyd Webber, now Knight of the Garter, is not tuned into more Rosebud.
31:22 Speaker 03 Mmm.
31:23 Speaker 02 I think he's more of a Friday Rosebud person.
31:24 Speaker 03 Yes, I hope he's not listening.
31:26 Speaker 02 Because I know he's going to be listening because we're going to have his brother on soon to Rosebud.
31:29 Speaker 03 Oh.
31:30 Speaker 02 And we're hoping that we'll have Andrew on one day. We now know each other better.
31:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:35 Speaker 02 And get on better.
31:36 Speaker 03 But I think he's bought a new jacket since this event.
31:38 Speaker 02 Yes, he could probably have afforded to buy one even then, but chose not to. Friday the 6th of June 1975. The referendum result: an overwhelming victory. Twenty-six million went to the polls, 67.2% voted yes, 32.8% voted no. We stay in Europe. It's the right result, and we played our part. Now, back to normality. Well, perhaps not quite normality. I met Hugh Thomas for lunch. He is now wearing a toupee. As he greeted me outside Leicester Square Tube Station, he lifted it as though it were a hat. He did the same as he said goodbye.
32:22 Speaker 02 And then I met Ronnie Barker, who showed me his collection of saucy seaside postcards. But I don't think he collects them because he finds them amusing. I think he finds them positively exciting. Very strange.
32:40 Speaker 03 Wow.
32:41 Speaker 02 Wednesday the second of July, nineteen seventy-five. Lunch with Simon, that's Simon Cadell, my friend, and Sir John Clements at Stone's Chop House. He seemed older, Sir John, wearier. He wouldn't have even one glass of wine. I never touch a drop before a performance. It's my one rule. Simon, who is appearing with him in the case in question at the Haymarket, it's a sea piece, no drama, but not his strongest, told his story about how Sir Ralph Richardson manages to shave twenty minutes off a matinee. Sir John Clements shook his head. Always give your best performance, always. There may be someone out there who is seeing you for the very first time. You must give them your best. I like him.
33:26 Speaker 02 I told him we hope to do another festival next year, funding permitting. I did not tell him that the Oxford Players Administrator, Elizabeth Sweeting, is a difficult old cow and that nothing is certain. He suggested Arms and the Man as a possible Bernard Shaw play. I don't think we'll be asking him to be the director, nor Julia Foster to star. Cry from Noel, unless we need them.
34:01 Speaker 01 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer.
34:09 Speaker 00 With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work.
34:20 Speaker 01 That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.
34:25 Speaker 00 Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.
34:31 Speaker 01 That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.
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35:07 Speaker 02 Saturday, the 11th of October, 1975. Gyles Brandreth is the sort of person that a breakfast cereal company would give their right arm for. He's bursting with vigor, fizzing with happiness, sizzling with vim. And Cosmopolitan magazine once picked him as one of England's most eligible bachelors, though he was actually married at the time. Linda Lee Potter's interview has appeared in The Mail. We get a full page with a charming picture of Michelle and me, with me holding Bennett and giving him his bottle. Linda was lovely, gentle, funny, quirky. And that's what the piece is, too. It's generous and amusing, but rather ghastly, too, embarrassing, all that boasting, talking too much, trying to get everything in,
35:52 Speaker 02 trying to be agreeable and ending up sounding egregious, saying, "I'm the happiest person in the world." Possibly true, but I know it just annoys other people. On the reverse side of the piece about us, it's Margaret the Magnificent, "My Vision for Britain." Mrs. Thatcher began her historic speech to the Tory conference with a furious onslaught on the Labour Party. This is her first party conference as leader, and she's wowed them.
36:21 Speaker 02 Interesting that, that was an interview, have you heard of Linda Lee Potter?
36:23 Speaker 03 I have, yeah.
36:24 Speaker 02 She was huge, a Daily Mail columnist and journalist. So to be interviewed by her at that age was extraordinary. And it's interesting, isn't it? This is more than fifty years ago. I'm being interviewed this week, I think, by the Daily Telegraph because of you and me going to Edinburgh, being on the Edinburgh Fringe this August. And all those anxieties about the interview, they still surface.
36:47 Speaker 03 Yes, interesting.
36:48 Speaker 02 And I need to remember, you know, I do want to try to be agreeable, but don't try to get everything in. Decide what messages you want, keep those. Don't sound egregious. And the other rule to remember is if ever you're being interviewed by a journalist, from the moment they ring the doorbell, until they're in their car, the bus or the taxi going home, the interview is still going on.
37:10 Speaker 03 I know.
37:10 Speaker 02 So don't feel you can throw in any asides as you go to the door.
37:14 Speaker 03 Yeah. And always be polite and on your best behaviour.
37:18 Speaker 02 And on best behaviour.
37:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:20 Speaker 02 Don't, no confidences, no off the record remarks, no, no, don't ever do it.
37:26 Speaker 03 It's risky, isn't it, giving an interview?
37:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
37:29 Speaker 03 I don't think I'd be very good at it.
37:31 Speaker 02 We may be doing some together. You may be doing some alone.
37:34 Speaker 03 I don't think I'm to be trusted, Giles.
37:36 Speaker 02 I agree.
37:39 Speaker 03 Don't let me do any interviews.
37:42 Speaker 02 Oh, I may be hiding in a cupboard bursting out.
37:44 Speaker 03 I think you will, yeah. No, stop.
37:47 Speaker 02 Anyway, but this is also interesting, this is the beginning of Margaret Thatcher. This is, I mean, it's the Labour Government, but this is Margaret Thatcher who's taken over from Edward Heath. She's the new leader of the Conservative Party. And, well, some of people know what history holds, but in nineteen seventy five, we didn't. Monday, the thirteenth of October, nineteen seventy five. Our dinner party for ten last night went well. Guests were due at seven thirty PM. At eight thirty PM, everyone had arrived, except Frances and Mary Crowdy. Frances phoned to apologise. They'd been held up, they were on their way. They arrived around nine. We had a jolly time. They went off with the rest at around midnight.
38:28 Speaker 02 Frances has just phoned, full of apology and regret at their rudeness in arriving so late. Rightfully bad manners. It was just that, as we were getting ready to go, standing in the hallway at Flood Street, Mary told me that she's leaving me for the au pair. And still, they came to dinner. I believe it's called breeding.
38:50 Speaker 03 Wow.
38:51 Speaker 02 Yes, that's probably, I think we can finish there. Um, it was extraordinary night. It was a kind of, for me, of a kind of, almost a growing up experience. Because one of the things I've learnt doing Rosebud is that for most people, life is quite complicated.
39:13 Speaker 03 Hmm.
39:14 Speaker 02 Actually, for, for lucky people, maybe it isn't complicated. But for a lot of people, it's complicated. Relationships are complicated, marriage is complicated. This was a lovely man, Francis Crowdy, and his wife Mary was a lovely woman too. And you may remember, they lived in Flood Street, along the same street that Margaret Thatcher lived in.
39:31 Speaker 03 Hmm.
39:32 Speaker 02 And Michelle and I, very young, early twenties, would go to them for, for supper and then play bridge. And Francis taught us how to play bridge, which was great fun. And he and his wife seemed to get on so well. But it never occurred to us that these people who came for dinner were in the middle of a maelstrom at home.
39:53 Speaker 03 Hmm.
39:54 Speaker 02 They didn't show it, and yet we found out about it and then thought about it.
39:59 Speaker 03 Hmm.
39:59 Speaker 02 So.
40:00 Speaker 03 So listen, that you, you never know what's going on.
40:04 Speaker 02 You never know.
40:04 Speaker 03 For people, do you?
40:05 Speaker 02 You never know.
40:06 Speaker 03 Got to remember that.
40:07 Speaker 02 You never really know. One of the privileges, I think, for us with Rosebud, Harriet, me having these conversations every Friday, you listening to them more than once as you edit them, is I feel very honoured at the confidences people share.
40:27 Speaker 03 Hmm.
40:28 Speaker 02 And um, privileged to learn about other people's lives. And I feel in listening to them, I'm learning something about my own life, which is good. And I hope people are learning something from the diaries about what life was like for one funny, ridiculous person, me, in the mid nineteen seventies.
40:48 Speaker 03 Do you think you would, if you broke up from your wife?
40:52 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
40:52 Speaker 03 Do you think you'd go to dinner that night? You, you'd just? An hour later, you'd be able to go to dinner. I mean, that's amazing.
41:00 Speaker 02 Interestingly, well, they they came to dinner together.
41:02 Speaker 03 I know.
41:03 Speaker 02 Is the point of this couple.
41:04 Speaker 03 I mean, that is.
41:04 Speaker 02 And it was quite a blow. He didn't know about it. They were impeccably mannered. But interestingly, Harriet, there'd been days when I've said to you, let's not do this, or you can cancel that. Or, you know, there's too much on this week. And you say, no, we've made the commitment, we're going through with it. So I think you are somebody who turns up.
41:21 Speaker 03 Absolutely. I hate cancelling things.
41:24 Speaker 02 Yeah. And you don't cancel things. So I don't like to cancel things. I also find it quite helpful to have to do things.
41:32 Speaker 03 Yes.
41:34 Speaker 02 We're going to get in the diaries in a year or two's time. Do you remember somebody called Cecil Parkinson?
41:40 Speaker 03 Hmm.
41:41 Speaker 02 Who resigned from the government.
41:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
41:43 Speaker 02 Because he had an affair with a woman called Sarah Keith. It's all in the public domain.
41:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
41:48 Speaker 02 Um, anyway, on the night of his resignation, you'll find in the diaries, I'm sure I've written about it, that he and I were at a public dinner, sitting side by side. And he went away from the dinner, and within five minutes of the dinner, he was phoning the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher to confess, or in fact, he went round to Downing Street to tell her all of this. I had no idea of it. We sat together for an hour at dinner. He got up and gave the most delightful speech. And then said to me, oh, would you mind? I won't be able to stay for yours. I've just got a bit of work to do back in the office. Got to go back to Downing Street. But he may have found, for all I know, I certainly, I've told you this. Um, in fact, we discovered it when, when my father died, how I was due to go to work.
42:32 Speaker 02 And I went to work. It was quite useful to have that to do.
42:35 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
42:36 Speaker 02 So different people handle things in in different ways. So is that enough diaries for today?
42:42 Speaker 03 Yes, that was, what a year. You've got a little baby and you're feeding the ducks.
42:46 Speaker 02 Oh, that's what you're thinking about. I'm thinking about how I won the referendum.
42:49 Speaker 03 Oh, I completely forgot about that.
42:51 Speaker 02 Me and Andrew Lloyd Webber in a crumpled shirt. Together, we won the referendum.
42:56 Speaker 03 Well, thank goodness for that.
42:57 Speaker 02 Well, for a while, and then all that was reversed.
42:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:00 Speaker 02 Margaret Thatcher's on the scene. Quite interesting, um, keeping a diary. You don't do that, do you?
43:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, I have kept a diary. You've heard some of it.
43:08 Speaker 02 Oh, I loved your diary. I meant, but you're not doing it at the moment.
43:10 Speaker 03 No, but I sometimes do. I just go up and down. Yeah.
43:13 Speaker 02 Keep notes. Keep notes. It's fun to keep notes, actually, to remind yourself what was going on. And also what we have to remember. Is that as Oscar Wilde said of moods, they're very changeable. That is their chief charm. So you may write a diary of feeling one way and then the next day feel quite differently about the same events.
43:37 Speaker 03 Hmm.
43:37 Speaker 02 So don't worry. It's just a diary of how you felt at the time you were writing it. It's simply my record of what went on. I know, I'm pleased this Tuesday that we've been talking together because I love chatting with you, Harriet. If people want to come and meet us in person, we're going to be doing some trouts for our Edinburgh show coming up quite soon at the Riverside Studios in Hammersmith in London and at OZO, the old sorting office in Barnes in southwest London. They're coming up, I think, in end of June, July, beginning of August. And then all of August, you will find us every day doing a matinee of a show called Up Memory Lane.
44:18 Speaker 02 That will be at Assembly in George Square and we hope you will enjoy it. We're hoping we will enjoy it too. I shall be keeping a diary of it and you may read interviews with Harriet Jane about what it's like to be preparing a show for Edinburgh with Gyles Brandreth, or you may not.
44:36 Speaker 03 I'm not sure I will be doing interviews, Giles, as previously discussed.
44:40 Speaker 02 Can I say, I think you shouldn't do interviews.
44:43 Speaker 03 Hmm.
44:43 Speaker 02 I think you should become the, what was the famous film star from the 1930s? I want to be alone. She was Swedish. Greta Garbo. You, oh, this is perfect. I am the old gabster and you are Greta Garbo. I'm the one who doesn't stop talking, the idiot who's put in the front line, who, oh, for God's sake, won't that man shut up? And then the mysterious Greta Garbo, oh, she never speaks. You just see her on stage. Oh. What she really like, never say a word to the press.
45:16 Speaker 03 Yes.
45:17 Speaker 02 Only if you. If you want to see Harriet Jane, you gotta buy a ticket. She is not available for interview.
45:25 Speaker 03 Yes.
45:26 Speaker 02 Only available on More Rosebud every Tuesday. And if you're a member of the Rosebud family, every other Sunday. If you want to join the family, it's patreon.com forward slash Rosebud. But we're here, free and available every Tuesday, every Friday.
45:44 Speaker 03 Giles, that's enough. That's enough. Cue the music.
45:50 Speaker 02 Keep that in.
46:37 Speaker 02 That's this week's More Rosebud with me, Gyles Brandreth, and my friend and producer, Harriet Jane. It's produced by Harriet and I turn up too.
46:48 Speaker 00 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.
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