Angela Scanlon

Angela Scanlon joins Gyles for an open and honest conversation full of wit, wisdom and insight. Angela talks to Gyles about her childhood in Ireland as one of four girls. She remembers early attempts at individualism - styling her First Communion outfit when she was only seven. She talks about inner conflict: being both a sensitive child, and someone who had the "craic" - and how the feeling of never being quite ready led her to developing an eating disorder as a teenager. She talks about love, travel and finding inner peace. Angela's hilarious podcast "Get a Grip" is well worth a listen. Our thanks to Angela for her warmth, fun and zest - which, as you know, is a favourite quality of ours at Rosebud Towers! Enjoy this. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If you've felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone. Enter Weight Loss by Hers. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And Hers now offers access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, Hers makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com/eligible to get personalized, affordable care that gets you. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible. Forhers dot com slash eligible.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  Weight Loss by Hers is not available in all 50 states. Wegovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wegovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit forhers.com.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. 12 celebrities, one Don and cold, hard cash. From the producers of The Traitors comes The Mob, a new Hulu original series. The iconic Parker Posey hosts this unique reality competition show where 12 celebrity contestants shake down in an Italian villa to win a share of up to $250,000. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Mob, premiering October 26th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Welcome to Rosebud. I've got a question for you. Is your bestie zesty? If they aren't, drop them. And listen to this episode of Rosebud. Well, I have to tell you, our guestie is zesty and perhaps the bestie we've ever had. Cue the music.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Hello, I'm Giles Brandreth and this is Rosebud. I'm very excited about today's special guest. When I was, oh, quite a bit younger than her, still in my twenties, I was interviewed by Linda Lee Potter. And the report of the interview described me as being, well, like a packet of Rice Krispies. He's got snap, crackle and pop. It said how I was fizzing with energy and life. And that's how I would describe today's guest. She's remarkable. She is just full of life and energy. She's an Irish broadcaster. She's a podcaster as well. Get a Grip is her podcast that I love. She's Angela Scanlon, by the way. Better say the name out loud.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Angela Scanlon. I love the name. I love her style. I was lucky enough to be invited to go to Dublin to be on her chat show over there. She's a well-known broadcaster in Ireland. She's a well-known broadcaster here. She does the You're Fired Apprentice spin-off on BBC Television. She often co-hosts This Morning, the show on ITV that I appear on. I just love her work. I particularly enjoy her on Instagram. I'm on Instagram and Rosebud is on Instagram. Angela Scanlon is one of the people I follow because the energy, the verve, the sense of danger, excitement, glamour, amusement, self-deprecation,

• 3:40Speaker 02

  chaos and intelligence that she brings to every video is extraordinary. Well, you can see I am a fan. I was a little bit in love before I sat down to record this conversation with her. I'm now in love in a big way. And I think you may be too, because this is a life-enhancing hour with a remarkable and interesting individual. There's more complexity here than you might imagine. And there are moments of heartache as well as moments that are truly life-enhancing. This is a special Rosebud with my Irish friend, Angela Scanlon. Cue the music.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  Hi, babe.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Hi, Angela Scanlon. Born the 29th of December, 1983. I got that bit right?

• 4:43Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I guess we should start from the top. It's actually 1982 exclusive. Wikipedia has me as 1983. I did shave a year off when I first moved to London because at 29, I thought I was too old. I didn't want to hit 30 too quick.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  This is the candid interview. We're going to get it. Oh, my God.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  I can't, like, I would never correct you ordinarily, but it's usually people don't lead with that. No, no. He's ripping up his page. I mean, I know this is visual, but if it's just in your ears, he's ripping up his pages.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  And ripping up the notes.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  Neatly, it should be.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  AI, Wikipedia, forget it.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Let's go, girl.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Angela Scanlon, born the 29th of December, is the date at least right?

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Capricorn.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Capricorn.

• 5:29Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  You and Jesus.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  Indeed.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Exactly. Or Jesus, as he's sometimes called.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Or Jesus, as he's called in Dublin.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Enough of this battle. Let's get on with it, Angela. This is the first question and it is simply, what is your very first memory?

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Like, I don't know if this is my first. This is the first memory I remember, which I guess it is, means it's my first memory. But I'm not sure whether it's because I've retold it that it's the one that's the quickest to pluck. And I am in, it's like a memory of, of being on holiday in County Cork. And like it's, so it's not a specific memory, but it's just more of a general kind of like, I remember us in the car going down. I remember the excitement. I remember the kind of chaos, like it just felt wildly exciting.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Who's in the car?

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Myself, my three sisters and my parents.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  Okay, unpack this.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  County Cork, why are you going to County Cork?

• 6:36Speaker 03

  County Cork, we were going to a place called Tribolgan, which I guess is maybe comparable to a, like Butlins.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  And we had a caravan tied to the back of the car. So like that in and of itself was very exciting.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  So there are six of you in the car, your parents in the front, four girls in the backseat.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Four girls in the back, stepping stones or stairs on a.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  And this is before seat belts?

• 7:02Speaker 03

  It would have been pretty rogue, I'd say, in the back.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Do you know what the make of car was?

• 7:06Speaker 03

  I think it was a Ford Escort.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Good, so you're in a Ford Escort.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  Parents in the front, girls in the back. What age are the different girls and what are their names?

• 7:13Speaker 03

  So there is Christine, who's 18 months older than me. I'm second in line. Then Siobhan, who's three years younger than me. And then Annette, who's the youngest, who is less than a year younger than Siobhan.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  So you've got to be at least five.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  I'm five years, I would say.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  This recollection, which is quite late for a first recollection.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  But that's the way it goes.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, a late developer. We may be establishing a theme already.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's fair.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  So who is driving the car?

• 7:42Speaker 03

  My dad's driving. My dad always drove, drove. And I remember, like, we definitely didn't have seat belts because I remember being quite like grumpy sometimes in the car and standing, holding on to the seat, kind of defiantly being told to sit down, but I didn't want to sit down. We would have to stop for wheeze every so often, but like, I did not want a wild wheeze. It wasn't cool back then.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Roadside wheeze were not for you.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  No, even though I needed to do it quite regularly, I had like bladder issues as a kid. And but I.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  So many children do.

• 8:16Speaker 03

  They do.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Excused. So who were your parents? Since your dad is driving the car, let's talk about him first. What is his name? Is he still with us?

• 8:24Speaker 03

  He is. And both of my parents thankfully are still here. My dad's name is Phelim.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Phelim?

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Phelim, P-H-E-L-I-M. Yeah, and I always thought it was so cool, like exotic.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Describe him, particularly what he looked like, you think, when you were a little girl? Your childhood memories of his appearance?

• 8:42Speaker 03

  I, I remember he had like hair that was a similar color to ours, like not quite as red, but his locks would have been red. And he, he was a builder and he would like physically work. And I just remember sometimes sitting in his lap and just the like size of his hands. Like he was a kind of bit, not actually like a super big man, but I just always was quite like oddly romantic is the wrong word. But I remember it feel like he was very other in our house because I guess it was all girls. And.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  You mean very other, meaning different?

• 9:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  And special as a consequence of that.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  Special, I think.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  And you saw his builder's hands, his strong hands.

• 9:27Speaker 03

  Strong and like, you know, we, yeah, he was, he, like, I have a picture still of the four of us literally hanging off his back. And he just felt like, even though now as an adult, he's not a particularly big man. He just had a very big presence in our house. And he, he was one of 14 children. And he was like midway in the lineup, I would say. Very diplomatic, a man of few words, but like deeply sensitive, I would say. Although again, that's maybe a later kind of appreciation or understanding.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Have you ever met another man comparable?

• 10:11Speaker 03

  Um.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  As good, as strong, as basically decent?

• 10:16Speaker 03

  I, you know what? I think I kind of had a period of time where I was, I maybe didn't appreciate those qualities. And I, I think I have found in my husband a kind of kindness and a gentleness that maybe for a period I would have thought is like, not the vibe.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Good. Tell us about your mother now. What was she called?

• 10:38Speaker 03

  My mom is called Marion, Mary. It was the year of the Marians, which is a very particular Irish thing, I think. She was born in 1954 and they call it the year of the Marians. I don't know, something to do with the Pope. But like, if you meet a Marion in Ireland, you can basically guess that she was born in 1954.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Oh, how wonderful.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  I don't know whether the Pope decided it was his favorite name. That seems unlikely, but was he?

• 11:02Speaker 02

  Well, it was a celebration, I imagine, though, of the Virgin Mary.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  Presumably.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  And there.

• 11:08Speaker 03

  But why 54?

• 11:09Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think there was an order of Marians. This is ringing a distant bell. We'll have to do homework on that.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah. Well, it was a thing, but she was Mary, like her passport's Mary, she's called Marion.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:19Speaker 03

  But then weirdly, I was born during the Angelus. Which is like, again, a very specific thing.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  In the service, forgive me, the Angelus.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  So like every day in Ireland, I actually think it might still be a thing, but like just before the six o'clock news, in the evening, there would, like, the world would stop and this big old bell would gong out of the tellies all around Ireland and you would kind of stop and do like a little prayer, I suppose. And I was born at five past six while the Angelus would have been.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  Was still being played.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Hence.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Because I think the Angelus takes, happens during a service, during Mass, at every service, there is a moment where the Angelus.

• 12:02Speaker 03

  Bong.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did it as an altar girl.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  I think when your eyes are averted from the host being lifted. I mean, I'm not a Catholic, but I'm.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Well, you're very good at the game.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  But you clearly are, your father certainly was.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  With his thirteen siblings.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  So we get back to your mother. She was born nineteen fifty four, the year of the Marian. She was called Mary as a consequence.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  She was, yes.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  And what sort of a person did she become?

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Um, she was, like, again, I think she is very kind of artistic. She was quite a wise old soul. Um, you know, very open, could be quite, you know, hardcore in her own way. But, you know, lived away from her parents, she was born in Galway. My dad was Mayo on the west of Ireland and they moved to Dublin.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  How did they meet?

• 12:53Speaker 03

  I think they met in a pub and he said his name was William initially. I don't know if that was like a way to swerve, but like it became.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  If you have quite a complicated name, which is his.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  Well, I think it's only complicated to your ear. I think it's relatively.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Oh, so it wouldn't have been.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Not commonplace, but it wouldn't have been alien in Ireland.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, William may have been more alien in Ireland.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. But my, my mum always used to call my dad Phil, actually. So it was always like, which I always thought was really romantic, that he had, she had another like name for him that had literally nothing to do because he's not Philip or, you know, anything like that.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  What did she look like when you were there?

• 13:29Speaker 03

  She was, so she always had short hair, which I always thought was like the mum hairdo, which was again, quite a thing that maybe generationally was an expectation. And she had brown eyes, the only one of our family to have like these beautiful, deep brown eyes. And she, I mean, she held the whole show together. She, yeah, had, had four daughters. She often would express kind of frustration, I think, at her role as, in other words, being a bloody taxi driver. And so like literally picking us up, taking us out, like because

• 14:12Speaker 03

  there were kind of almost two batches, she would take me and my older sister Irish dancing by the time we were finished, she'd be bringing us home. Or the other way around, younger sisters dancing, back in, out, in, out. It was, I would say relentless. And then obviously the expectation to have, you know, food on the table and all of the things that I know. I'm like, shit, the bed, it's a lot.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Picture them together for us as a couple. What were they like? Give us a moment of you remembering them together.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  They used to describe themselves as Jack and Vera Duckworth. Maybe a later version was like John and Mary from Father Ted. So they, they bickered a lot.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  But in a kind of quite a playful, tender way. Like, I don't ever remember them fighting very much. I, I remember one, one fight that they had, which was kind of, felt really significant.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Do you know what that was about?

• 15:10Speaker 03

  It was about Mass, weirdly.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Not, not weirdly at all. You're a serious Catholic family.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Conscious that you're giving birth to someone during the Angelus.

• 15:18Speaker 03

  Exactly. Well timed.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so she, I think, my mum, her mother was, was very religious and she inherited that. And a lot of the time, we, we did too. We all went to Mass rollers in our hair. We like did the thing and you kind of just didn't question it. And it was at a time when a lot of the scandals were coming out in the church. And my dad was like, no, I'm actually not going to Mass anymore. And I just remember it being a kind of, we said that we would bring them up. In fact, we christened them, we did the thing. And I was like listening outside the door because it was so unusual to hear a kind of like real fight, as I thought.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  They were shouting?

• 16:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. It was like, it was a, yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  And how old were you at the time, do you think?

• 16:08Speaker 03

  I don't know. I imagine I was around eleven. Like, it was when a lot of, because I guess there were whispers of things that were a little sketchy with the Catholic Church, but that it blew open.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  Sex scandals and physical violence and the whole thing.

• 16:26Speaker 03

  Like absolute large scale abuse.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  The whole thing was.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  Industrial schools and.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Blown up and people were discovering this for the first time. But you at that stage were a committed Catholic. You'd had your first communion?

• 16:38Speaker 03

  I did. I had my confirmation. And so I was just like in the system, I suppose.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Were you also a believer?

• 16:47Speaker 03

  I don't know that I was.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  As a Catholic, are you when you have your first communion?

• 16:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, sevenish.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Do you remember the day?

• 16:55Speaker 03

  I do remember the day, actually, mostly because of the outfit and the money.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Oh, tell us about the outfit and the money.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  I don't know that I was like touched by the Lord. I think I was basically like, woo, this is a moment for me. And I inherited the dress, which would have only been eighteen months beforehand, and it was beautiful. And my sister had this gorgeous dress and she was very angelic. She was very, at that time, well behaved. And I was like, are you shitting me? I'm getting the hand me down dress. Absolutely not. And so I remember like bargaining with my mum as if I was in the position to do that. And I kind of agreed that I would wear the dress if I could style it my own way. And she was like, okay, what? And so I, we went to Navan Shopping Centre. And I remember, again, this being quite a, like, wonderful

• 17:48Speaker 03

  outing. And I then got a pair of Clark's shoes that I had wanted for so long. And they were black, which I think was like, oh, we're wearing black shoes. And I said, I remember having to fight for my right to wear them because it should be a head to toe white situation. And that was quite a punchy move. And I was like, ma'am, I'll be able to wear them to school forevermore. Like, I, I get a pair of white shoes, they'll be in shit next week, and you'll have to get me another pair anyway in September. So I said, let's get the black ones and then I'll get loads of wear out of them. So, you know, I spoke to the practical woman in her and I got the black shoes. And I remember thinking, now I know who I am.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Oh, were you quite a dominant child?

• 18:33Speaker 03

  I, I don't know. I think I was a real mix, actually. I think that dominance maybe masked probably a real, like, I think I was very sensitive and I was very needy and I was very frightened, actually. Like, when I started school, I remember going to, like, being taken out of the class, like desperately begging to come out of the class so that I could go in to sit beside my sister, like clingy.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  And why do you think you were like that? Why was there this neediness and?

• 19:10Speaker 03

  I, I mean, I think some people just have that. And I think I tried to shake it out of myself to problematic levels as years went by. But I, I don't know. I, I suppose I never felt quite ready. So a lot of the things that I had to do, that one has to do as a human, as a child, I always felt like, I mean, the only way I can kind of relate it is like a bird being kind of chucked from the nest just a bit too early. I always

• 19:51Speaker 03

  had the feeling that I wasn't quite prepared. I wasn't quite, I'm nearly there, but I'm not quite there. And then off you go.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Give us another moment of that from these early years before you're eleven. The example of me going to your sister's class is a good one.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Of you feeling this way, an actual incident.

• 20:10Speaker 03

  I remember my, so when my granny was still alive, my mum's mum, we would go down, which again, I have like beautiful kind of broad memories of going to her house in, in Galway, like in the middle of nowhere. And we would just kind of roam the fields. It was very free and she was like a wonderful presence, I think, in my life, which again, I maybe realised too late. She died when I was maybe eight. And I remember like that adventure, but also having this feeling of it being quite scary going to bed without

• 20:49Speaker 03

  your parents. And so I would style it out. I was with my older sister and being told, like, let's say it's Wednesday, your parents are coming tomorrow. So I wake in the morning thinking.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  They're coming today. So like, it's probably seven o'clock. And I sit on the end. I just remember that they, so when you got to their house, there was a like ramp up to the house was kind of up on a height. And so there was two large gables, like literally well off the ground. And so I sat on the gable waiting for them to come. But obviously Thursday is Thursday. They're without kids. They probably had a lunch on the way down that was, you know, without someone dragging out of their legs or demanding a wee break or whatever it might have been. And so Thursday just felt like this endless day. And I remember sitting like, like not budging from that gable.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  Cause today was the day. And so I think I had, I had kind of endured this week that had like lovely moments, but that really was a lot. And I was ready now to meet them. And that day I genuinely thought would never end. And then I thought they would never come. I was like, oh my God, maybe they've just, will never come back. And so I think on the surface, I was this lively little kid, like my, you know, uncle used to call me muscles. And I was, I was very sparky kid, but I think it hid a lot of those kind of fears that I had of that, like anxiety, I guess, as a little kid.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Did your parents, you think, understand this?

• 22:35Speaker 03

  I, look, I think in hindsight, they were surviving with four very small children without help. They didn't have nannies. My mother wasn't getting a facial. She was like, self-care was not a thing. I think she was doing an incredible job keeping the wheels between the ditches. And so to have that level of emotional attunement, I think my, and, and I masked it really well. I think I became really good at like looking very, you know, she would say things like you could go anywhere. I could literally put you anywhere and that I would figure out a way to connect with people, to entertain people, to,

• 23:21Speaker 03

  you know, make myself at home. So I think I fooled everybody, really.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Your parents, that one row that you remember listening at the door, did it change things? Cause your father has clearly decided enough, enough of the church. It's not for me. But your mother, because of the tradition and her mother clung to her faith. It was important to her. It was the golden thread of her life.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  And I think she almost doubled down after that. But then she actually went a similar way. I think these, these things kept coming up. And she was like, oh, hang on, who am I doing this for again? And I guess she realised she could also have an opinion. For me, I just remember being like, oh, wow, this is possible that they can have two opposing feelings and.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Still get on. And do they still get on when they're together?

• 24:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're still very much together. Still like Jack and Vera. And, but yeah, they've like got a really brilliant, shared sense of humour, I think. And sense of adventure. I mean, they, they're 46 years married a couple of weeks ago and they were on holidays with my sister and her kids. And sent into the family WhatsApp group, a picture of them, like my nephew in between both of them on a like parachute balloon.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 24:38Speaker 03

  To celebrate their 46th wedding anniversary. Amazing. And I thought, I kind of love the, yeah, they're just kind of defiant in many ways. And like, they still have a beautiful spark and kind of zest, I suppose.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Tell me about your three sisters. I have three elder sisters. So I know it's like to live with three. Well, yes, they were very distinct personalities. How were you with your three sisters? What were you like? How are you with them now?

• 25:10Speaker 03

  We are, I would say thick as thieves, very different, very different.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  We all work for ourselves, which is kind of a weird thing that has happened over the years. It wasn't immediately apparent. But yeah, I, I think with four, there is kind of a bit of safety in that you can, there are, tend to be pairings and the pairings kind of change with the seasons.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  You know, clashes for sure.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  But no big fights. There was never a big fight over the years.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  Oh, there were a few.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  What was the biggest and what was it about?

• 25:51Speaker 03

  Jesus. I'm like, oh my God, people listen to this. I have to like hide this in my algorithm. I'll never be able to go home at Christmas. I would say the biggest fight I remember, my older sister, we used to really butt heads. And she was like stronger than me. I was quite a little runt and I would come home from school, I'd take off my shoes. I always wanted my feet on the ground. So they, shoes came off as soon as I came in. She was in her Doc Marten phase and the shoes would stay firmly on. And so I remember she was always quite physical with me. Like she'd be bathering me.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  And I never really fought back because I genuinely thought, do you know what? It's like kind of pointless. I, I knew that I was outmatched or whatever. But I remember this one incident where we were in the kitchen. And this had obviously been building and building. And I remember my best friend at the time had a younger brother and I obviously had been telling her about this pattern. And she was like, babe, I torment him. And the only reason I stopped was when he stood up to me. She was like, from the flip side, it doesn't matter whether you win or lose, you just need to show your teeth and get stuck in and it will change the dynamic.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  I was like, okay. So I was kind of being, you know, geeed up for this incoming event, whenever that might happen. Anyway, it happened. And I remember being in the like corner of our kitchen and she was like at me. And I just switched. I switched and I like went nuts and I, I don't, I don't fully recall what I did, but I didn't have my shoes on, so I couldn't kick her shins. And so I remember getting her hands and like turning her hands like this until she was on her knees in the kitchen.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  And, and then I kind of like came to and was like, shit. And she got up and she was like, I have a piano exam on Friday. Mama's gonna kill you. And I thought, oh shit. And she went to her room. And then I remember running to her room afterwards with ice to try and like help her with what I might have done to her hands. And she was like, you're fucked. And anyway, it did slightly change the game for me. And also it made me realise, oh, maybe I do have a bit of bite in me.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  It empowered you. And has that been a lesson for life, do you think?

• 28:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  You are, you do stand up. You are.

• 28:39Speaker 03

  I do. It's taken time.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  And at school, how were you doing? Normal school? Were you okay?

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, normal school, grand. Giddy. I would say, look, undiagnosed, but it's, the signs are there. I would say ADHD. I was giddy. It was always like, ah, she's great crack and she's very bright and she's very smart, but she's quite disruptive. And like, she can make it a little difficult for other people's learning.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  All this, you say, this, and this is the you that we see, that we still see.

• 29:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  That, that you, we love the crack. But clearly underneath, there is this, this, this self doubt, this insecurity that you've been masking through almost an exaggerated version of the crack.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  And you've then been helped by Laura to stand up for yourself with your sister twisting the hands back. So that her, her failure to be a concert pianist, I, I met her the other day and she's still banging on about it, you know. You know, you ruined, you ruined her life. But there we are.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  She's got four kids. I think she gets it now. She's like, you're.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  I tell you, having four children is no substitute for being a concert pianist playing at Madison Square Gardens.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  I'm so sorry.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  So, you know, I mean, four kids. Is that what life's about? Thought you were a proper feminist. Four kids. To actually offer that up as the solution to your sister's problems.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  No, I'm, I was saying she will understand the wildness of feral children in a kitchen.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  I'm only being playful, of course.

• 30:11Speaker 00

  If you felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone. Enter Weight Loss by Hers. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And Hers now offers access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, Hers makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com/eligible to get personalized, affordable care that gets you. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible. Forhers.com/eligible.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Weight Loss by Hers is not available in all 50 states. Wegovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wegovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit forhers.com.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. 12 celebrities, one Don and cold, hard cash. From the producers of The Traitors comes The Mob, a new Hulu original series. The iconic Parker Posey hosts this unique reality competition show where 12 celebrity contestants shake down in an Italian villa to win a share of up to $250,000. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Mob, premiering October 26th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 31:42Speaker 04

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  So at school.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  You then go to secondary school? Is it the same school?

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Secondary, no, different school.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Are there boys at the second school?

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Boys at both.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Oh, both?

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  So when's your first crush?

• 32:26Speaker 03

  Which I think was my mom's, like, very conscious thing. But she was like, you're four girls. And she, her kind of experience was that girls who went to, like, single-sex schools became kind of obsessed with how special boys were, where she's like, if you know that they stink, then, you know, it's fine.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  And so what was your first interaction with boys? What did you make of boys?

• 32:52Speaker 03

  Oh, I remember. So obviously, there were a few lads who were at Irish dancing, but they were generally transpired to be not of my persuasion. However, one of my best.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  They weren't girls either? Or they weren't interested in girls?

• 33:07Speaker 03

  That one, yeah. And like, some of my best friends. But I remember one pal who, his brother, oh my God. I was absolutely mad about, like, this was the first. Actually, no, I did have a crush before this, but it was like, he was, this was love. Like, he was born on the 23rd of June, which is the same birthday as my dad, which happened to be the same birthday as my mother's father.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  So I thought, hang on. I think Raymond Maloney might be the love of my life because it stood to reason, you know? Oh, my God. So anyway.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  What did he have?

• 33:49Speaker 03

  What do you mean?

• 33:50Speaker 02

  What did he have? What did he want?

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Well, he was tanned for a start, which was like, very exotic to me, obviously. And he was sporty and he was kind of wild. You know, he was wild and he was good crack.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Same sort of age or year?

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Exactly same age, he was in my class. But he was like, the hot boy in school. So it was never, I wasn't in the.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Does he know about it? Well, he knows now, but did he know about it then?

• 34:14Speaker 03

  I'd say he knew about it because I was friends with his brother and it was like, oh, my God, we all have to go. You know, it was easy to kind of ship us all together. And so, yeah, I'd say he was aware. I don't know that it was reciprocal.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  So what was your first proper boyfriend?

• 34:29Speaker 03

  First proper boyfriend?

• 34:32Speaker 02

  The first holding hands and feeling?

• 34:35Speaker 03

  He was like, a couple of years older, I would say. And I had really not been like, I was a late bloomer. And I think I just had never really, I was like, very into Irish dancing. I was not bothered. And then I think I kind of bloomed over the summer and was like, this is a new hell that I wasn't quite comfortable with, truthfully. And also echoes of that, oh, hang on, I'm not quite ready for this. Like, I didn't know this was coming.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  So how old are you at this age?

• 35:12Speaker 03

  I'm leaving certain years, so like, 17, probably.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Oh, so you are quite a late developer. And he's then 18 or 19?

• 35:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I had kissed a few boys at the Gaelto and at parties, but I'd never had a, like, thing.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. So what happened? Did it develop into a relationship?

• 35:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, we were together for years. On, off, on, off, on, off. It was quite like, it was kind of first love,

• 35:39Speaker 03

  intoxicating and toxic and all of the things.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  My wife comes from Irish heritage. Her family come from County Cork.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  And as I recall, contraception for young girls was a big issue and a big problem.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Was it a problem or issue for you? Or had things changed by, you know, we're talking about the year 2000?

• 36:01Speaker 03

  I mean, it was available. And I remember my mom having the conversation.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Oh, she told you the facts of life, did she?

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, she was, actually, there was a lot of openness, actually, in our family. And sometimes I would do that. I would, I'd be like, let's talk about periods, guys, long before I had mine, because that was, it was safe to talk about it when it wasn't relevant to me. And so I, I often liked to kind of push people to their edge of comfort. But she, yeah, I think she was aware. I mean, terrified that any of us would get pregnant. Don't come home with a bun in the oven. You know, this was the kind of, like, general, like, her job as a mother, she would have felt like she had failed had she not prepared us for that.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  Like, I was on the pill, which sent me absolutely doulally.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Oh, side effect?

• 36:55Speaker 03

  Like I was, like a lunatic.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Really?

• 36:58Speaker 03

  So I stopped taking it.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Is that a well-known thing?

• 37:00Speaker 03

  I think it is a thing, but it's just accepted as a given for women, because what is the other option? Well, there is another option, but, you know, most of the side effects of contraceptive are held by the woman, whether it's a coil, whether it's discomfort, whatever it is. So I think the general consensus was, well, you can be batshit crazy or you can get pregnant. Choose your flavor.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  So you weren't a bit batshit crazy at this time?

• 37:25Speaker 03

  I would say I was, yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Tell me.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Highly emotional.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Tell us about the eating problems you had at this time. When did they start? And what have you now worked out as the root cause? And how did you come through it?

• 37:39Speaker 03

  When did it start? It started, I would say, I was fifth year in school, so 16. And it started very casually. Like, I would say, I was dancing. I was completely unaware of my body as anything other than, like, instrument to help me dance. Like, I kind of, I didn't see it as anything that anyone was looking at. It was just a thing that I got to use. And I had an injury from dancing, so I had to take time off. And I think I was so frightened, in many ways, by the space, by the fact that that was my everything, really.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  And so I, look, I kind of link that as the starting point. But I think in hindsight, like, I used it before then, just in a way that I wasn't aware of. I was a very picky eater as a kid. I would sit at the table and like, not want to finish my dinner. And my mom would have to reheat my dinner a number of times until I finished my dinner. And so it, it did become, again, a kind of, like, tool, I think, that I used without realizing what I was doing. And then it just kind of caught hold, I think. And I used it as a way to, I don't know,

• 39:06Speaker 03

  I suppose, to shrink my world a bit. So that sense of being thrust out of the nest. I think the obsession and fixation and preoccupation with food, in, out, abstaining.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  And body image at the same time, or?

• 39:27Speaker 03

  And, yeah, they're connected. And I think I, like, I developed in what felt like overnight. I stopped dancing and suddenly everything that had been kind of kept at bay happened overnight. And it felt like I was out of control. And I think ultimately, an eating disorder, an addiction, serves to at least give you the illusion of controlling something or escaping the fear around not being able to control something.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  So you are, you're trying to control your body?

• 39:57Speaker 03

  Body. I'm trying to control my.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  World, I suppose. Like, if I am so fixated on this, then I don't have to worry about what I'm gonna do when I grow up, who I'm gonna be with, where I'm gonna, where I'm gonna live, how I'm gonna like build myself up to like become an adult.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  And as a consequence of this, you lose weight. What happens? What is the result of it?

• 40:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, you lose weight or you don't. If you're binging and purging, I kind of went between.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  You were both what we now call anorexic.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  And there was bulimia as well.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  Bulimia, yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Where you eat and then reject what you've eaten.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  And how long did this go on for?

• 40:33Speaker 03

  It went on for, in total, um, fifteen years.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  And what, at this early stage, did your parents think about it and what did they do about it?

• 40:41Speaker 03

  Well, they didn't know for a really long time.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  But there was an appearance change, was there or not?

• 40:46Speaker 03

  No, not initially. The appearance change would have happened when I was, I had gone off travelling and I was kind of, any of the stability, I suppose, of home was gone and I had nobody watching in ways. So and, and also, I think it escalated at times when I went away because, again, this facade and this identity that I built up of being like a bad little bitch who can do anything. I was very brave. I was adventurous. Masked a sense of like homesickness that just did not sit well with me. Homesickness was for

• 41:25Speaker 03

  weaklings was for, you know, I was a worldly woman. I had ideas and I had, like, I wanted a big life. And so the idea of crying home to your parents with homesickness was not a thing. So I rejected any of the deeper feelings that I had around my fear of the world, I suppose.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Did you have therapy? I mean, did you?

• 41:45Speaker 03

  I had therapy for seven years and, um.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  In a nutshell, what was the conclusion?

• 41:52Speaker 03

  I mean, I think in a nutshell, it was, it, it, it's, it is control. It's an, it's I don't think it can be traced back to any one thing. I think there's a susceptibility, like in, for, in college, I did my

• 42:09Speaker 02

  This is Dublin. You went to Dublin University?

• 42:10Speaker 03

  I went to D I T.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  And you did business studies on there?

• 42:12Speaker 03

  I did business studies, yes. And, um, for my thesis, because I was already aware, and I love fashion, so I read a lot of fashion magazines and I was already kind of at the, you know, I was deep in it and I my thesis was an exploration into media consumption and its effect on disordered eating. And so I, I was very curious. I knew that I didn't want to be stuck with this thing, but I also was aware that it had a

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Were you sharing this with anybody else, the problem? Did you share it with your mother, your father, the boyfriend?

• 42:45Speaker 03

  No, it was very secret, which is a big part of, I guess, the shame in it, that it becomes this kind of, um. Yeah. Also, I wasn't ready. I think in order to say it out loud, you need to know that there will be a extra eyes on you

• 43:03Speaker 03

  in terms of your behaviour, but also a desire, you would think, from people who love you to want to help you. So it's easier to, yeah, if you, if you share it, you need to be, I think, ready to have it looked at and I, and I wasn't. I was very fond of it in many ways.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Ah, it was your companion. You were controlling your life. So this happens from fifteen, sixteen up till you're about thirty years of age. And when you decide to get to grips with it, when you start the therapy, do you self-refer yourself? How does all, how do these problems get solved?

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Well, I did, my parents sent me, briefly, there's a show, The Late Late Show, and there was a guy on it. And they like talked a lot about child psychology because like, look, I had seen Karen Carpenter. I, we listened to the Carpenters at home. I had seen whatever stumbled across that biography and then I was aware of anorexia as a thing that could kill you. I was aware of the seriousness of it, but I think most people thought of it as a kind of, you know, teenage. Girls wanna look cute, like, what's the problem? Instead of it, that being the symptom of something deeper driving that behaviour, I suppose. Um, but my parents had seen on The Late Late Show, this, um, the Marino Clinic, I think it was called.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  It was a place in Dublin that was quite an alternative approach to, um, eating disorders. And so I had gone there. But again, I realised in hindsight, I had zero interest. I would go in and be like, Jesus, these are bad. Like, these are, these guys are sick. I shouldn't be wasting their time. Like, so I just wasn't ready. I wasn't ready. And by the time, I suppose, you know, you hit your rock bottom. For me, that was after I had my daughter because it was almost like, oh, I do not want to, um.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  So you took this into your marriage?

• 44:57Speaker 03

  I, sorry, I had switched my eating disorder to work. So I still, the same driving force was just aimed in a different direction and had been for, for.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Just complete the eating disorder then before it becomes another obsession, is what you're telling us? So before your marriage, when do you get on top of the eating disorder? So you are no longer throwing up or no longer fearing you're gonna become anorexic. How long did that last?

• 45:22Speaker 03

  Um, so I thought, I, I remember reading a thing that said it took fourteen days for the body to regulate after a binge and a purge. And I was like, I was writing, I was styling, I was working for myself, I was working seven days a week. I was like, I do not have time for this shit. And so I just, in my mind, just gave it up. And so all of the energy and attention and fixation just shifted to work, which was, you know, more lucrative and people clapped for me and I have a wonderful career that was driven slightly by the manic kind of, um, focus.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  I'm going to ask once more and then we can leave it.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  You obviously have thought about this. You had seven years of therapy. It has two patterns to it. There's first the eating disorder and then there is the work obsession.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  You have connected the two, in fact, conflated them. You're telling me they're the same thing. What I would like to know is you must have thought about what was there in your childhood, your nature, your parenting that brought this about. You've told me the symptoms and you've told me how you wanted to control things. What I'm asking you is why?

• 46:38Speaker 03

  I mean, I feel like I answered it. I feel like it's too easy to go, that happened to me on this day. I did not have, there was no big event. There was no big trauma with a capital T, as they'd say. I think that I was a deeply sensitive child.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Fine, it's that.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  And that as a result, things that felt manageable for many people felt huge for me. And then this became my kind of accidental choice of coping mechanism and it grew on legs.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Okay, I'll accept that. I knew, um.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Your honour.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  The first person I knew who had anorexia was a girl who was an actress.

• 47:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Who appeared in a show of mine, playing Alice in Wonderland. And essentially, we went to the second series. And she wanted to do the second series and she therefore didn't want her breasts to develop. She didn't want to grow up. She was thirteen, fourteen, fifteen. And so she did it in order to stay as a child actress.

• 47:34Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  That was what triggered it.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  And then it became an issue for her. So I was looking for something obvious like that.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  And what you are giving me is that you were this shy, somewhat self-doubting person in your head but had created for yourself a carapace of the girl with crack, the girl we now see.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  If we follow you as I do on Insta, wow, you are doing this in spades every single day. Hey, hey, here I am. But inside you, you now are a settled person.

• 48:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Now, how did that come about?

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Well, I think, um, I suppose I struggled for so long with like, oh my God, was that, is that a

• 48:17Speaker 03

  creation? Is that like a false, eh, person, I suppose? So there was definitely like the, the two sides of the coin. And I suppose I now

• 48:29Speaker 03

  feel like they're, they're the same. Like, I'm, I'm deeply sensitive and I'm also great crack. And actually, I think maybe instead of trying to shove away my sensitivity, trying to, like, I hated it. I felt like that sensitivity made me weak, made me needy, made me like, eh, smaller, I suppose. Um, when in actual fact, I think my sensitivity allows me to attune to people in a way that makes me

• 49:01Speaker 03

  good at my job, that makes, I can help people feel comfortable. The things that I hated in myself or that I didn't want to be part of me, I.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Have welcomed and so they haven't overtaken me. I thought if I admitted, oh my God, I am quite sensitive that I'd literally melt into a puddle in of tears. Whereas actually what I realised is that that's quite a strength. It's a part of me. It's not the whole part of me.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  How do you ensure that the self compassionate you, which is now the you, understanding yourself better and appreciating the kindness and the empathy shown to you by others, doesn't become self indulgence?

• 49:44Speaker 03

  And that's a very good question. And I think I probably did do that for a couple, like when I was deep in it, I was, um, like I've got an addictive personality. I was basically addicted to healing myself. And then I realised that essentially I was pressing pause on actually living and undermining my ability to be in the world and take knocks and come back from them. And I think there's a woman called Glennon Doyle, who has a book called Untamed, and she talks about parenting, which I think can apply to anybody really, but I remember thinking of

• 50:24Speaker 03

  it as this snowplow parenting. So this generation attempting to do or or not do the wrongs that had been done to them by parents who were not as emotionally or psychologically attuned, like we're we'll show you what like modern day parenting looks like. And she was like, actually, this snowplow where you're essentially going in front of your kid, clearing every obstacle out of the way so that they can have a smooth transition. And there's something beautiful in the intention of that, wanting to protect your kid from pain and hurt and falls and all of the things. And then you realise, you rob the kid of the resilience of knowing that they can be kicked, that they can get back up, that they can fail,

• 51:09Speaker 03

  that they can learn, that they are not made of glass. And I think my being in touch with my sensitivity and I was a little indul- I started to go, oh my God, I just need to keep away from anything that might disrupt my homeostasis, that might like rattle me. And actually, what what I lost was like that appetite and that reminder that I've been loved getting knocked down and getting back up, that that's actually living. So you can kind of do the healing to the detriment of living. And I want the scrapes and I want the stories. I don't want to sit at home in meditation pose, thinking I've got it all

• 51:54Speaker 03

  figured out and being at peace. But like, I may as well be dead.

• 52:10Speaker 05

  Hot flashes, rage crying, forgetting words mid-senten. Yeah, we know. Menopause is a lot. Midi Health gets it. That's why Midi offers virtual healthcare specially tailored to women's needs. Built for women by women. Every symptom, every stage, every question. Visit joinmidi.com to get started today. That's join M I D I dot com. Individual results and coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. 12 celebrities, one Don and cold hard cash. From the producers of The Traitors comes The Mob, the new Hulu original series. The iconic Parker Posey hosts this unique reality competition show where 12 celebrity contestants shake down in an Italian villa to win a share of up to $250,000. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Mob, premiering October 26 on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  The off on off on off, eventually off off boyfriend.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  We next get, is this, are there a few people before we meet your husband?

• 53:55Speaker 03

  Well, I go travelling. I'm like living my life in Dublin. I'm kind of, you know, doing my thing.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Give us the best and the worst travel moments, because you do quite a lot of travelling.

• 54:04Speaker 03

  I do do quite a lot of travelling. And I went to, so I spent a year in Australia. And honestly, again, now I look back, I'm like, I really hope neither of my two daughters follow in my footsteps. I was with four, there was four of us in total. And we bought a van that was obviously completely unvetted from these lads who had driven the arse out of it. It was hardly fit for the road called Scotty. We like pooled our resources up in Cairns in the East Coast. Scotty, a yellow van. We were like, yeah, this is a bit of us. It was basically a high ace with a mattress in the back. And, um, and we slept for three

• 54:45Speaker 03

  months up and down the coast. And we would like park up in all sorts of places. And rather than pay the camping fees, we would just park up on the side of the road outside somebody's house. They could have been a serial killer, you know, nobody came for us, which I don't know whether that says more about us or them, but we would just like drape a towel, open the door because it was roasting, open the door of the high ace van, four women with legs dangling out of the thing so as not to sweat to death. And, and we would go to sleep.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  Great. Was that the best of it?

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Or the worst of it?

• 55:21Speaker 03

  That was the best. I think that was the best of it, you know?

• 55:23Speaker 02

  I think it was the best of it, too.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  Just this feeling of not like, like being kind of invincible and unaware of danger.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  It has that echo of your very first memory.

• 55:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Being in the car with the caravan behind you.

• 55:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  With the mattress in that where people slept.

• 55:37Speaker 03

  Like a free bird, you know?

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Free bird.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  So you come back to Ireland and eventually you find a sort of career of kinds.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what my parents say. And eventually you kind of work.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  And when did you come to London?

• 55:49Speaker 03

  I came to London in 2012, maybe over and back, kind of pretending I lived in London, moved officially when we got married in 2014. So, um, but up until that point, I was like, had signed with an agent, pretended I live here, would get on the plane, come over. Yeah, yeah, I can do a meeting. I was like, but I couldn't afford it.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  And you were into fashion and the beginning of presenting.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  I was, yeah.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  And when does, your husband is called?

• 56:16Speaker 03

  Roy.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  And where do we meet him?

• 56:18Speaker 03

  We meet him in a pub through friends. One of my best friends and his best friends met, married. And, um, yeah.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  And how old are you both at that stage?

• 56:27Speaker 03

  I, I think I'm 29 because I remember he like threw a 30th birthday party for me, which felt like, oh.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 56:36Speaker 03

  I think this is it.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  Can you remember the first encounter with him?

• 56:38Speaker 03

  I can.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  What was it like, the moment?

• 56:40Speaker 03

  So I remember meeting him in, in a bar. So I lived in Dublin upstairs from, like opposite a pub called Sheehan's. And my friend rang and she's like, we're downstairs. I looked out the window. I was waiting for a friend who was visiting from Madrid. And she was coming with lone moham. I thought charcuterie was the height of style. And I was like, this now is a bit of me. I'm basically Carrie Bradshaw. She's bringing me cheese and meat in her backpack and we're going to drink wine. Like, who the am I? And I looked out the window. He's there with my two friends and they're like, oh, we're here. And he's like a bit awkward, I would say. And I said, I've got like my friend's coming. She then messaged me to say she was late. So I said, oh, Grant, I'll

• 57:24Speaker 03

  come across the road. So we came across the road and I thought, my God, he is mad about himself, isn't he? I was really like struck by his kind of arrogance and like intrigued, but a bit allergic, I would say. And then anyway, we all had a great night collectively together. That was kind of spontaneous and raucous and great. And then that was it. So we exchanged numbers. He messaged me the following day, was like, it was really lovely to meet you. And I remember being home going, I don't know whether I really like him or I really don't. And so I thought, fine. Didn't really think anything of it. Giles, six months.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Six months. And I remember I was kind of on the scene. I didn't, I wasn't really interested in anything. And then I get a message out of the blue. It was a Friday evening. I was in the bath and I think maybe I was kind of like, oh, you know. And he messaged, he's like, I know this is really out of the blue, but would you like to go for a drink? So I waited a couple of weeks, but I remember him ringing me.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  You did, did you not reply to that?

• 58:39Speaker 03

  I did reply. I said, I'm really busy for the next, like, couple of weeks, but like, week commencing, like, let's.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Maybe let's do something.

• 58:46Speaker 03

  Why not? And so, and then I remember him ringing me and I was like, what, this feels very adult and confident. I was like, oh, that's kind of bold. In a world where people were, like, lads were hiding behind text messages and all of that sort of thing. I thought, oh, this is ballsy. So we had organised where to meet, da, da, da. And I remember wanting to cancel because I had a spot. And I was like, I just couldn't be bothered. And I rang my friend. It was on my chin. They're always on the chin, Giles. And so.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Sometimes on the nose, or indeed on the lip.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Sore, painful, those ones. Very painful. But she was a chin one. Anyway, I, I remember wearing a white, oversized white shirt, like a man's shirt and a striped tights. And my friend who had introduced us was like encouraging me maybe to wear, to change that outfit. And I thought, you know what, if he's not into it, it's like, I'm very much for smoking them out early. I was over kind of the pretense. So I, and I had said to her, I really am not in the mood. Can I just cancel? She was like, get your arse down the stairs and across to that pub, wherever it was. And I went in with kind of no expectations, truthfully. And

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  all of the ideas that I had about him within the space of one gin and tonic had kind of changed completely. So I had him as a kind of slightly macho, like, bro. And he almost immediately just was bright and sensitive and attuned and funny and like, alive. Like, and I, I remember him going to the bathroom and I was like, shit, this is not how I saw

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  this day going. And we spent the entire evening together. We went from the pub to another pub, to a restaurant, to another pub. It was like one of those things where we just didn't want it to end. And I felt so kind of comfortable. And, and that was kind of it. And it was so bizarre to me because I had never had somebody who like actively was, like, care, like really caring, but like heart on his sleeve, kind of.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  So what he is doing, because you're still in this manic phase, he is touching beyond that to the inner you that's been there all the time, that hasn't been recognised before.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  So he sees that.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  And he gets the reward because how long have you been together?

• 1:01:43Speaker 03

  We've been together, it's actually our anniversary on Saturday. So like, 16 years?

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  Lovely. And you have two daughters?

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  Two daughters, yeah.

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  That's the way it goes in your family.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Four and eight, yeah. That's the way it goes. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  What, what does love mean? Are you in love with him still?

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  So describe that. What is love? What is love now, after 16 years, anniversary on Saturday, two daughters?

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  I think love, I think it changes over the years, but it is, I guess, I guess it is being like seen and being held. And actually, I will often say to him, you know, I kind of need to be adored. Sometimes I want that in my own home, not just on Instagram. I think the idea of actually seeing a person and the things that we think of as natural to them, reminding yourself that they are special. So I think we can overlook and take for granted

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  the things that are inherent to a person. And I, and for me, that kind of kindness. And I mean, an example, I went out on Saturday and I, when I'm out, I'm out. And it doesn't happen that often. And it was a bottomless brunch and margaritas were had. And the following day I was like, I'm gonna sit this one out. And I said, I'm gonna stay in bed. We were due to go for lunch. And he went to the gym and he came back with a juice for me. He rang and was like, do you want a juice? And I said, yeah, sure. And he brought the juice back and he said, I got it without lemon. And I kind of thought, what is he talking about? And I was like, cool. And then it only landed with me afterwards that I had said weeks before,

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  oh, I've been having these celery and lemon shots and the lemon is making me break out. And Christine is allergic to citrus and maybe there's a sensitivity to citrus. And he remembered even when I didn't remember myself. And I think that in a very humdrum thing to me is being held in someone's mind and heart and being cared for in an everyday way, I guess.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  I love it. Being held and being heard. It's lovely.

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  We're coming to the end now. What's it like having red hair?

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Um, I, well, it's wonderful now.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  Or was it sometimes hell when you were?

• 1:04:25Speaker 03

  Well, you know, you kind of want to be like everyone else. And when I was growing up, Britney Spears was the epitome of sexy, glamorous, fabulous.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Are there advantages though to having red hair?

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  I mean, you get caught when you're Mitch at school. So I was the only one that would be tracked down. And I remember tackling my maths teacher afterwards and being like, are you joking me? You knew we were a crew together. And she was like, you're the only one I could identify from 150 yards. So, but also, like, I think that's made me feel quite special in ways. So it was initially a very, it was alien and awful and also special, which is quite a heady mix as a youngster. But I, it's great.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  Do your parents feel you've settled down and achieved?

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  I think they do. I think they're relieved and also always a little bit terrified. But they will say things like, we did not know, you know, how it would end. And I'd be thinking, underneath all the madness, like, there was no doubt in my mind. I was like, I had shit to do.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  And you've built an incredible freelance career.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  As a broadcaster, presenter, television host.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  Working for everyone. Always on.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  Author, always on, fashion stylist, fashion guru. Absolutely. I mean, I have to say, I adore following you.

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  Thanks, babe.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  You give me energy every morning. You are my daily boost. Who needs a sugar rush? When Angela Scanlon is available.

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  She's in the hour.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Three quick questions now, from your early years particularly, but really from anywhere in your life. When I say this phrase, you've got to give me what comes into your head immediately. A moment of joy, Angela.

• 1:06:11Speaker 03

  A moment of joy. Okay. Being in my granny's house with all of my sisters and my uncle Sean, who's no longer with us. And he would open the sunroof and we would all crawl all over and out of the sunroof. And we would drive down the Hairy Road, which was this tiny little road with grass in the middle of it that we named the Hairy Road. And it was, we were high on Fanta and Wham! bars and we were joyful.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love it. You're often on the move.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  Often I am always on the move.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  A moment of sadness.

• 1:06:44Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  That comes into your head.

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  Um, my, the, the death of my, my granny, my mum's mum. Cecilia, we called her Dolly. Well, we called her granny, but she was known as Dolly. And the day that she died, I have such a clear memory of that, of knowing, being picked up by our neighbour, being brought home, stopping at a shop to get a card, like this weird chain of events where nothing was being said, but something had changed. And then I remember going home and meeting my mum at the door. And I think Margaret had told us just before then that granny had

• 1:07:31Speaker 03

  died suddenly. And, and I saw my mum, I think as a kind of human, I suppose, like as a, she was heartbroken. And it, I think it was the first time that I saw a crack, I suppose. She was the captain of the ship and the captain can't cry, you know. So I think I, now I'm like, all I want to do is hug that version of her who really needed to be held by someone. She had two brothers. She was the only daughter. And I think that, you know, changed, changed her massively.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  And what in your life have you learnt? What's life taught you, Angela Scanlon?

• 1:08:24Speaker 03

  That although I want, and like there's themes here, like I want a big life, I want it exciting, I want like zest and, I don't know, confetti at the graveside. That actually, the kind of small, quiet, intimate things in the everyday are the things that really make up a life and the only thing that really matters.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  Well, I think where you are now, unless you've fooled us all, you've achieved that. Because in your work, you give us that zest. I shall certainly be at your graveside with the confetti.

• 1:09:13Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  Making whoopee for you. So you've done all that. But at the same time, I think through your husband and through your children and your new attitude to the world, you've also given yourself the solid peace. So I'm going to cry now, but thank you very much, Angela.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  Oh gosh, I love Angela Scanlon. You're not surprised. I'm hoping you loving her too as well. Though I know, believe it or not, I've been told that I can irritate some people. Apparently, I'm Marmite. Some people find me incredibly annoying. The way I speak, the way I am, they assume because the way I speak, I have a certain attitude to life. Some people really loathe me, despise me. And, well, I'm just thinking, maybe there are some people who don't like Angela's effervescence. Actually, I don't think there will be. I think there's a difference between her and me. Some people don't like me. Everybody loves Angela Scanlon. And I'm not surprised. I do recommend Get a Grip. It's really funny.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  That's her podcast. And I do recommend her on Instagram. Do follow her there. And also, actually, follow me on Instagram. I'm on Instagram at Gyles Brandreth. And the Rosebud Podcast is on Instagram at Rosebud Podcast. And I'm old school. I'm still on X. Are we on TikTok? Yes. We're on everything. We're on, and we're on TikTok. We also have on TikTok, people who aren't us, but pretend to be us. We've got, yeah, oh, yeah, there are people doing sort of Me Too versions of us. Maybe I shouldn't say Me Too. What's it, what? Shut up. Oh, do you know, I just, I'll just let you in a little secret. Because we're in

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  the studio, and on Fridays, it's just me, my producer, Harriet Jane, is here. She just texts me messages mid-flow. And I've just received a text saying, you are rambling like a lunatic. Unfortunately, we don't have HR as part of the Rosebud organisation. Otherwise, I'd be going straight to HR and saying to them, I am mid-performance, I am of a certain age, and quite sensitive. And my producer, without a hi, a bye, a thumbs up, or anything, has just sent me in capital letters, you are rambling like a lunatic. But I've got the message. I better go straight. I'm going straight to the email. We have

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  heard from Lisa Del Vecchio. Dear Giles and Harriet, firstly, thank you for your wonderful podcast. I laugh, cry, learn, and am completely engaged while listening. Giles, you make me laugh so much sometimes. Thank you for that. Lisa, can I really thank you for that? I need a bit of a boost, because, you know, Harriet's sometimes has to be harsh. I understand. I bring you perhaps not my earliest memory, but a significant one. I was around six or seven years of age. My family had moved from Australia to Washington DC, as my father was a diplomat. Already feeling like a fish out of water, I was humiliated by my school

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  teacher in front of the entire class for having an untidy desk. So incensed was this teacher, Mrs Brill, that she flipped my desk over and emptied its contents onto the floor. Clearly, this dramatic event had an impact on me because I am now 61 and still talking about it. I've also had some wonderful teachers, especially Mr Witty, who nurtured my love of English. Teachers can leave a mark on a person, both positive and negative. Thank you again for bringing so many wonderful stories to us all. Well, thank you, Lisa. And I think there's something quite interesting about the names

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  of your teachers. It's called nominative determinism, where the name indicates how you are. There was a judge, literally called Judge Judge. And famously, in the Philippines, there was a cardinal called Cardinal Sin. Gosh, he's spent a lot of time in confession. Look, you had Mrs Brill and Mr Witty. And quite rightly, Mr Witty outwitted Mrs Brill, who scarred you. Oh, there's another text comes through. This is from Harriet. Cheers. I can't believe you're still wittering on. This should have ended six minutes ago. Well, it's ending now. So I'm saying that to you, Harriet. I am bringing this to a conclusion now. But I do want to say thank you so much, Lisa, for that very interesting, actually

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  really interesting, recollection from your childhood of the day the desk was upturned. Well, I've enjoyed Angela Scanlon. I've enjoyed your company. And if you want our company, as you know, we're at the Edinburgh Fringe all of August. And do come and see us there. You can actually meet us after any of the shows. You can find out from our website, which is simply rosebudpodcast.co.uk, where we'll be for the whole of August. For the next few weeks, though, till we go to Edinburgh, we're still coming from London, from our home at Grosvenor House on Park Lane. But from me, Gyles Brandreth, from my producer, Harriet Jane, who is back in the building, and from Alec Cadell, who edits the video

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  version of Rosebud for YouTube. We're available at the Rosebud Podcast on YouTube. From all of us, all the team, thank you very much for being part of the Rosebud world. Until next time, cue the music.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Twelve celebrities, one Don, and cold, hard cash. From the producers of The Traitors comes The Mob, a new Hulu original series. The iconic Parker Posey hosts this unique reality competition show where 12 celebrity contestants shake down in an Italian villa to win a share of up to $250,000. Watch the new Hulu original series, The Mob, premiering October 26 on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 1:16:13Speaker 06

  When your workday is constantly disrupted, your workflow isn't flowing. It's come to a grinding halt. You don't need an assistant, you need superpowers. Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is built for how you actually work. No new tabs, no switching apps, no losing your place. Go handles busy work like finding documents or summarizing email threads, so you can focus on the work only you can do. Try Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 1:16:42Speaker 04

  Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to build Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.