Pod Insights Richmond Leadership Lab Meghan Freeman, Abundant Life Partners About this episode **Join us for Episode 5 of the Richmond Leadership Lab**, where we delve into the inspiring journey of Meghan Freeman, founder of Abundant Life Partners. Hosted by Taylor Quinn and Christian Mosier, this episode explores Meghan’s evolution from working overnight shifts at a hospital to becoming a successful business owner dedicated to making Abundant Life accessible for both clients and therapists. Discover the challenges Meghan faced in transitioning from counselor to business owner, and how her leadership style has evolved to emphasize transparency, communication, and the importance of building the right team. Through engaging discussions, Meghan shares invaluable leadership lessons, highlighting the significance of having a clear vision and the right people to execute it.**Tune in to gain insights on:**- Meghan Freeman's journey and background- Leadership challenges in the service industry- Innovative approaches to enhancing clinical effectiveness- Balancing business growth with personal lifeWhether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned business leader, or someone looking to enrich your understanding of leadership dynamics, this episode is packed with wisdom and practical advice.**Key Topics Covered:**- Meghan Freeman's journey and background- Leadership challenges in the service industry- The importance of transparency and communication- Personal insights on success and growthDon’t forget to subscribe, like, and share! Tune in for more enriching discussions about leadership and growth in our community. To learn more about Abundant Life Partners, visit: https://www.abundantlifepartners.comRichmond Leadership Lab is Produced and Co-Hosted by:Taylor Quinn, CEO - Filmspirehttps://www.filmspirevideo.com
https://www.richmondpodcaststudio.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/taylor-quinn-filmspire/Christian Mosier, President - BenXhttps://benxconsulting.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-mosier/To learn more about RLL visit our site: https://www.richmondleadershiplab.com
Transcript 0:01 Speaker 00 Welcome to the Richmond Leadership Lab, featuring business and nonprofit leaders across Richmond, Virginia. Produced and hosted by Filmsfire and Ben X.
0:12 Speaker 02 Welcome to the fifth episode. It's already been five.
0:16 Speaker 01 I've already lost count.
0:18 Speaker 02 I can't count much higher at this point. We're two figures. We're two hands. Uh I am I'm your co host Christian Mosher uh with Taylor Quinn, and we are so excited to bring to you today Megan Freeman of Abundant Life Partners.
0:34 Speaker 00 Thank you.
0:34 Speaker 02 Megan, thank you so much
0:36 Speaker 00 It is
0:36 Speaker 02 for being on the show.
0:37 Speaker 00 an honor to be here. Number five.
0:39 Speaker 02 It's an honor to have you. I feel like the guests just keep getting better and better.
0:43 Speaker 00 I don't
0:43 Speaker 01 No no pressure now. Seriously.
0:46 Speaker 00 my kids watch this and they're like, You're gonna be on the one with the hotel guy. So I think they think the hotel guy's way cooler than I am, but
0:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, Robin. Rob is such a great guy. Oh my god. We we really enjoyed our episode with him and and I was choked with him. I'm like, so the game's like Monopoly. You just hotel here, hotel
1:01 Speaker 00 yeah. I think that's they probably think that's a little more entertaining, but that's okay.
1:04 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:05 Speaker 02 Yeah. Yeah.
1:05 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:06 Speaker 02 Are they d are they involved with what you do? Like do they know I guess they know what you do.
1:10 Speaker 00 A little bit. I'm trying to my my pro tip I learned was to expose them by making them listen to podcasts and uh educational books while we drive around town to different sporting events. So, you know, I'll listen to like, you know, fear of failure, things like that on the way to a baseball game, just kind of get them thinking. So yeah, but um I mean a lot of it's confidential, but I kind of hope that they're exposed a little bit to the ups and downs and it was just seeing kind of how we
1:35 Speaker 01 Awesome.
1:36 Speaker 00 all the different ways that you can
1:38 Speaker 02 And the failure.
1:38 Speaker 00 take a live.
1:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, and the failure aspects I love.
1:41 Speaker 00 Failure. Yes. We're big on failure in our family. Yes.
1:47 Speaker 00 I mean, like have a good at bad.
1:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:52 Speaker 02 Hey, thirty percent.
1:53 Speaker 00 30% you're doing well. So a lot of failure.
1:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, even lower in business and
1:59 Speaker 01 Yeah. Um well Megan, thanks for coming onto the show. I I really appreciate it. This is, you know, our first time kind of meeting, obviously. So um for kind of for the show, for the Richmond Leadership Lab, we would love to bring on CEOs and owners like yourself, talk about your story, talk about um leadership, what that means to you, and things like that, especially being a business owner. So um, but first we'd really love to kind of just kind of hear your story a little bit. Or first, why don't you tell us about abundant life partners? Tell us about abundant life partners, and then we'll kind of get into your story. So give us the elevator, the quick elevator pitch, if you will.
2:31 Speaker 00 All right. Well, pretty simple. Abundant Life Partners provides outpatient mental health counseling and medication management to children, families, couples, um, adults all across Virginia. We can do virtually. We also have offices in Williamsburg and also in RICO. So we started with Just me providing counseling myself in Williamsburg after hours in my therap my former supervisor's office. And then just slowly I met different people who were amazing counselors and found spaces for them to do counseling. So that is what we do. We are a generalist practice, but I we have specialists like within. So pretty much most issues. We we can find someone to help if not within the practice without.
3:17 Speaker 01 Now, I'm curious, if you meet someone like at a party or something like that and they're like, What do you do? And then you go, I'm a c I'm a therapist, I'm a counselor. Wha I' w w do you kinda get weird feedback or
3:30 Speaker 00 If there's a reason that people keep telling me I have a 15 passenger van for all my children, people keep telling me I should get it wrapped. I do not get it wrapped for that for specific reasons. I do not need it. But yeah, um, usually I'll say I I kind of go different ways because I'm an LCSW, so I'm a licensed um clinical social worker. Um, you know, that I don't know if that's the way to go. I'm like, don't want to say I'm a social worker. Like, I don't know that that is its own connotation. So um yeah, and then you say therapist and they start telling you about their, you know, physical therapy, massage therapy. So it goes all different ways. But
4:01 Speaker 02 I have this ankle problem.
4:02 Speaker 00 I have yeah. I cannot help you with that. So
4:05 Speaker 01 That's amazing.
4:06 Speaker 00 um but yeah, we do tend to get asked a lot for uh referrals, I think. So
4:11 Speaker 01 Interesting. Yeah. I just think it's I I could imagine just like that that funny interaction, engagement, and things like that.
4:17 Speaker 00 Yeah.
4:17 Speaker 01 Um would you mind just kind of telling us a little bit of like your story, your background for a couple minutes? Like
4:22 Speaker 00 Yeah.
4:22 Speaker 01 how did you get into wanting to do therapy and counseling and things like that? Um yeah, just kind of give us the quick quick background on yourself if you don't mind.
4:30 Speaker 00 Absolutely. Yeah. So I was born and raised in Los Angeles. So just outside of Los Angeles, I graduated from Harvard Westlake in uh North Hollywood. Um and uh even uh many years ago, it was very normal to have therapists um growing up. So um I had amazing therapists when I was growing up, getting through life. So I just I always I kind of a weird type of person that always knew kind of what I wanted to do. And so even as young as middle school and high school, I just saw this therapist who was a mom and I was like, I I think I want to do that. So um knew I wanted to go into the counseling field and um then kind of weird change, but came all the way to Washington and Lee from Los Angeles to go to um college.
5:13 Speaker 02 I didn't even know that.
5:14 Speaker 00 Yes, yes. So it was um it was special. I still remember, I was just thinking about this. I came
5:19 Speaker 02 You could have watched it in LinkedIn
5:21 Speaker 00 You know, I think through counseling actually and through my experience with um kind of getting to know myself, I knew myself and I was like, I know that I will thrive in a small environment that's um
5:32 Speaker 02 nowhere.
5:33 Speaker 00 in the middle. I wanted to experience something totally different. This was shortly after 9-11. I'd been listening to a lot of country music. I kind of wanted to find cowboys or you know, something like that. So I I knew I couldn't be cold because that would not be good for my mental health. So um so I started at Georgetown and drove down to Duke and just stopped at every school and found Washington and Lee had never heard of it. Um but it is gorgeous. If anyone's been to Lexington, it is beautiful. Um and I just felt like you know they have the honor tradition, you know, speaking tradition. It's a place where I knew if I was gonna go that far away from my family, I needed to be known and recognized. If I, you know, disappeared and failed to show up to class, I needed someone to notice that.
6:10 Speaker 01 Right?
6:10 Speaker 00 Um, since I knew nobody in Lexington, Virginia. Um and it was funny too, 'cause I had actually toured William and Mary and I was like, Oh, Williamsburg, that's a tour sea town. Then go to Lexington. Like there was nothing at that time.
6:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
6:21 Speaker 00 But I loved it. It was just an amazing experience. I assumed that I was going to go get a PhD in clinical psychology, just where I come from, you just get the highest degree possible in your field, even if a master's could be a terminal degree. I was like, I gotta get a PhD. And so I was gonna go get a PhD um in clinical psychology. And then I met my husband. And so basically it's kind of a joke, but I walked across to Lim across Limits Gates to BMI with one of my friends from um W L. We it was kind of as a joke. We were like, I wonder what's going on over there. Um and so we went over, we went to the church there, um, because at the time I was
7:03 Speaker 00 New to faith, but definitely not ready for uh Lexington um dad, no pearls, no uh lily pullets or I was not prepared for Lexington church life. So I was like you know, oh it was I will never I was like, what is going on with all these guys in pastels? Like you know
7:21 Speaker 00 Women and why are these girls wearing their grandmother's, you know, floral things? You know, it I was a fish out of water um for sure. But um went over to VMI and they had an amazing chaplain shop park, um was phenomenal. And I just kept going to their services there and met my husband and he proposed and we got married the day after I graduated college. So um and he was he had a career that was picked for him. He was our OTC um Marine Corps option. So um we knew her. He would have no flexibility, so I had to have the flexibility. So um yeah.
7:55 Speaker 02 The change between LA
7:57 Speaker 00 Yes.
7:58 Speaker 02 and Lexington, Virginia.
8:00 Speaker 00 Yes.
8:00 Speaker 02 I mean, it couldn't almost be more vast.
8:02 Speaker 00 It was it was very vast. Um yes, yes. I um it was and and it's funny because now in retrospect, I think I was somewhat oblivious. I remember showing up to my first day. I still remember I mean I thought I was so cool. I was wearing this like pinstripe mini skirt, a Batman shirt, and Converse Chucks that were um tie-dye, orange tie-dye. I still remember the outlet.
8:26 Speaker 02 That's what she's wearing today.
8:27 Speaker 00 Absolutely. I I've tried to like refine myself a little bit here um to fit into the Richmond community. But um yeah, so I it was it was different, but I knew I also knew I wanted to be of service and that was a kind of community where you can get involved quickly. So I just was in everything um from the time I got there and um so yeah it was
8:46 Speaker 02 And when she guys moved out to you're in Williamsburg right now.
8:49 Speaker 00 Yes. So we um we originally um were living up in Quantico, so we honeymooned in Quantico for the Marine Corps. Um and then the Marine Corps brought us back to um California, so we were in San Diego for a while, and then um my husband got orders back to Cal or back to Virginia. Um they told him either Chesapeake, Yorktown, or Norfolk, which um if you know are not uh co-located at all. So we were living in Hampton for a while, and then um but we had the nerve to take my first the first grandchild with us, and so my gr my parents moved uh to follow her. You know, I didn't I moved across the country for college. There was not such a concern. But when I took Remington with me, you know, they came. Um and so um
9:31 Speaker 00 So yeah, so we ended up settling there and then um thinking it was just gonna be for about three years and then you move every three years um with the Marine Corps and then um Tyler decided he was going to become a dentist, um, which was uh seven year journey. Um so um so yeah, so we ended up kind of sticking around longer than we anticipated.
9:51 Speaker 02 Yeah. And you all really grow on a big presence in Richmond.
9:54 Speaker 00 Yes.
9:55 Speaker 02 Your CLO, Chelsea's here.
9:56 Speaker 00 So Chelsea, yes, Chelsea.
10:00 Speaker 00 So we grew and I we were just talking about this. Well the one of the great pieces of advice I got was that um places or um locations are a lot easier to find than great people. So um we grew really conservatively. It's a kind of a weird model where we have about six locations within Williamsburg, and then we just keep adding office spaces um within the same office building in Richmond because we just wanted to grow conservatively. I didn't want to be in a position where I had a big lease and then we're service providers. So really the only way to add is to just add service providers, but we wanted to be able to be selective about um who we were hiring and not have that weight of a lease. So um so we have a lot of little leases that I try to manage. Um
10:43 Speaker 01 That's great.
10:43 Speaker 02 So like a commercial broker.
10:44 Speaker 00 Yes, basically. Yes.
10:47 Speaker 01 What do you think makes your practice different than other counseling centers and things like that? What what what elements do you think you bring to the table that are unique?
10:54 Speaker 00 Yeah. And I think that has changed a little bit over time. So it's like when you first start, I'd say what you bring is kind of yourself, because if it was just me doing the counseling, my um specialization was eating disorders. Um and so that was kind of what I brought. Um as we've grown, what I would like to think is that we really bring innovation um to the counseling field. Counselors by nature um are not educated in business at all. Um I did not think I was not educated in business at all. I very happily majored in psychology and philosophy and walked right by the business school at WL every single day and said, who needs to go there? Um until I took one business ethics course. Um, you know, like who who needs that? Um so but I think a lot of us kind of have that attitude of really trying to divide business from the helping professions.
11:46 Speaker 00 And so um I my Passion is really leveraging what's great about the business world and the efficiencies and um things like that to bring to make mental health care accessible. So um in the past couple years we were one of the first to um bring a CRM to the mental health world for you you business people are kind of like, how were you getting clients without a CRM? Like we were answering the phone and putting them in spreadsheets, how else? Um and so, but the what I kept hearing is everyone says, Oh, there's no there's no providers, there's no providers. There are providers and there are clients. They just don't know how to find each other well. So
12:21 Speaker 02 I
12:21 Speaker 00 There's just kind of things that I've learned from other businesses and some of the technology to try to figure out how can we make mental health care more accessible. So that's kind of one aspect. I think the other thing from an employee standpoint, my passion and kind of going through my story, I was a stay at home mom. I thought I was going to be a stay at home mom as a military spouse working.
12:45 Speaker 02 can't ever imagine you just
12:46 Speaker 00 Completely which is hilarious because that was me you know, which my poor husband, that was kind of what he was sold. Um but um he is a champ and you know has kind of rolled with it. But um that was I mean that was what I thought um you know I was gonna do. I um when I graduated with my masters, I got pregnant, you know, right away. So I graduated pregnant and I thought, you know, I'm gonna stay home with my daughter. My husband was actually deployed at the time when I had her. Um and so thought, how could I possibly work and moving every three years? Um so I was really involved with um
13:20 Speaker 00 Like moms of preschoolers at the which is now Mom Co. Um in the churches and doing leading a stroller running club and things like that. And I had this thought that there's all these really educated women that are in these organizations that want to be great moms, but they also have a great education. And that was kind of what was weighing on me was I had this great education. My parents really invested in that and I had a way to help people, but I wasn't able to do it. And so I thought if I can create an environment where it can be flexible and supportive of moms, because I mean now we do have men as well, but primarily our field is um very primarily female. Um so if we can create an environment where they can work and it can be a value added to their family versus a competition within the home, then um they'll probably want to work with us.
14:07 Speaker 00 And so um so that's really our our model is a lot built around flexibility.
14:12 Speaker 02 And so you really you all have two different visions. Almost like an employee vision you were gonna be and then like outward facing
14:18 Speaker 00 Exactly
14:18 Speaker 02 wanna help.
14:19 Speaker 00 exactly. And it's hard, I think, in my mind, because I flip back and forth, but with the size we are now, we have around 65 employees. My brain is a lot more on the supporting the therapists so they can support their clients. But we say our mission is to make abundant life accessible. And to me, that means both for the clients, but also for the therapists and their families, because we're in a profession of helping, you know, families and helping people. And if our people are being negatively impacted by the work environment, then we're at kind of a net, you know, it's like maybe they're helping people, but then their lives are getting worse. Like there's no net gain there.
14:55 Speaker 02 It's not
14:56 Speaker 00 So
14:56 Speaker 02 a negative
14:57 Speaker 00 it's it really is. It really is. And so yeah, so that is that's kind of the two visions there.
15:02 Speaker 02 and so I I abundant life partners, I imagine, looks vastly different today
15:07 Speaker 00 Yeah.
15:07 Speaker 02 than it did when there was a single
15:09 Speaker 00 It does. Um however, interestingly, uh I don't know if this was just um aggressive or really poor marketing. Um I named us abundant life partners when it was just me. Um so I uh was um
15:22 Speaker 02 that's great marketing.
15:22 Speaker 00 You know, I I just I I didn't know what I was going to do or where it was going to go or um really anything about um what was happening. I had no business plan or vision, but I was in a spin class and I was like, what do I name this practice? Because I need to create an LLC. Um and so I thought, what can we offer? Abundant life is basically all we're promised because this world is hard and we can't cure hard. But um if we can help people live a life uh to the full. While they're here in the midst of suffering, then that's that's what we can offer.
15:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
15:54 Speaker 00 Um and then I had the thought, like it is kind of in the top of the, you know, A B, um, maybe it'll come up on the top of referral list. Um that was my that was my thought. And then I I said partners because I was, you know, we're doing counseling, but I do have a holistic uh vision of um being a social worker. I I kind of think holistically about um, you know, how we help people. So I thought we'll partner with people.
16:15 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:16 Speaker 02 And when did you start officially like abundant life partners?
16:19 Speaker 00 Um February 2017. So it was I was working, yes, I was working.
16:23 Speaker 02 It's coming up. What are we doing for
16:24 Speaker 00 It is. I don't know. I've got to hear that out.
16:27 Speaker 01 Planning it.
16:28 Speaker 00 It's funny
16:29 Speaker 02 a decade?
16:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm close.
16:31 Speaker 00 that's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. We started the year. I um I'd been working overnights at a hospital and then we got pregnant with a fourth child. And I was like, I can't work overnights at a hospital. Um, so start a practice.
16:43 Speaker 01 That's cool.
16:44 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:44 Speaker 01 Awesome. We'll be right back after this short message.
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17:34 Speaker 01 I'm curious for you you brought up a good point that now you're spending most of your time thinking about your employees and things like that. So we've got a couple questions about that and things like that. Like um and maybe things you've learned for like leadership and things like that. But is there like a particular leadership lesson that you feel like you've learned or one that stands out recently for you that's really shaped you? Maybe transitioning out of from being that I'm I'm the counselor to now I'm the kind of owner, anything that stands out as a lesson you've learned about in leadership regarding that?
18:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think the importance of um
18:07 Speaker 00 Transparency and communication has been big. So working with um, I know you had Mindy on Kim with Inspiring HR has been really helpful in really helping me think through um how to help employees see themselves as like the continuum, the full life cycle of an employee, because it's like you sometimes hire people um, but there's not really a plan or a vision for them. So and I'm maybe comfortable with just jumping into something and being like, I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm a visionary, I don't like, I don't know what's happening next week. You know, I've got 10,000 ideas and we can go any direction and I don't care. But employees may like to know kind of what's coming, what's the next step. Um so figuring out that's been a big at focus for us this year. Um I I think everyone in the service industry um compensation is a big concern, but with that going, um, what's like the growth opportunities for employees within the company and then communicating that clearly?
19:02 Speaker 00 So that's been something I've um worked on a lot this year.
19:06 Speaker 01 Great.
19:07 Speaker 02 And almost like role clarity, like what you're gonna do
19:10 Speaker 00 Yeah.
19:10 Speaker 02 specifically.
19:11 Speaker 00 Exactly. And it's yeah, so that has been job description. She hammered it in. I thought that this is another lesson. Um details matter. Um I'm not a detail oriented person for that's why chemistry didn't work out for me. But um I just, you know, I'm kind of a 70% solution, let's roll. Um, but details things like a job description, which I was like, hmm, you know, hmm. So
19:36 Speaker 02 How much does this mean?
19:36 Speaker 00 you know, it doesn't matter.
19:38 Speaker 02 Also expectations for employees. Right? Like that's 'cause they also want to know like, am I hitting the right? You know, am I doing a good job in relation to these measures?
19:47 Speaker 00 Yes. And that's been, I think, a big um shift for me. And I'm still not good at it, but I hired Chelsea, who's great at it, is um clear as kind. And so being I tend to be uh very heavy on grace and I don't want to put expectations on people. I love you, no matter what. You drew in great. I yeah, I that's why I took myself out of hiring. Unconditional positive regard is what we learn as therapists, and I truly have it for people. Um however, when you are hiring, um having unconditional positive regard for everyone you interview is not um does not lead to the best hires. Um so having clarity about the roles and then providing that clarity, so really honing our hiring process as well, um, to be able to be confident and say this is what we have to offer, and it might not be the best fit for you or for us, or and that's absolutely okay.
20:34 Speaker 00 Um and so yeah, that's been that's been really helpful.
20:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:38 Speaker 02 So have people like Chelsea on your team.
20:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:40 Speaker 00 Yeah.
20:41 Speaker 01 What do you look for in in a hire? We talked about how it's easier to find, you know, real estate or you know, apartments for whatever, you know, building space, but like harder to find good employees. So what is it what are the qualities, qualifications you look for for a great hire?
20:56 Speaker 00 So values are key. We do run on EOS. I know some of your former employees or some of your former interviewees have as well. So, but even kind of that was the first thing we implemented, self-implemented on our own. And that was already, I think, just kind of ingrained, just not maybe verbalized as well as it could have been. So we start with core values and making sure there's a core values alignment. And um Chelsea's great when she does her interviews. She goes through all the core values from the beginning. We have been told at times that it's weird. And we're cool, we're cool with that. We're like, I guess it is weird. But culture is so important because we are well aware that people can do what we do in any other environment, and culture is key. So um so core values is first. And then for our clinical team, um, we've really gotten to know what the role is and who thrives in it.
21:46 Speaker 00 So it's a really interesting role because it's kind of, I call it like a semi-private practice. So it's meant to mirror the benefits that they would have of running their own practice with the benefits of having all your administrative support taken care of. You don't have the risk of, you know, recoupments and things like that. You have the consistency of knowing when you work you're going to get paid, whether insurance pays us or not. Um so really provide there's the consultation aspect of having a team around supporting you. Um so giving them, but that requires a certain degree of autonomy because we provide so much flexibility. Communication is really, really important. Um so um we've really kind of figured out um and and been able to see who might be the best fit for that role because there's also other ways to provide the services we provide.
22:34 Speaker 00 Some people might be better off with a nine to five where they're have that accountability of clocking in, clocking out. Um you kind of have to be self Self-motivated, we're very supportive, but you have to reach out and ask. We're not micromanaging. So um so yeah, things like that.
22:50 Speaker 02 But even the little things that you guys do, like how you don't ten ninety nine on your card.
22:53 Speaker 00 So we
22:54 Speaker 02 Like all your employees. Like they're W2 employees
22:56 Speaker 00 and two employees, and that was a big um probably one of the more stressful aspects of um being a um employer, but we we made that shift um probably about two or three years ago. Um
23:08 Speaker 02 brought on a good benefit firm.
23:09 Speaker 00 We did. We brought on a great benefit firm. Highly recommend. So even before we needed benefits. That's what I was just telling him. Is that the because I think one of the things I've seen in our field is people see what other people are doing and all of a sudden offer 10,000 benefits. And like I said, Christian got to know our practice and we're a bunch of moms, many of whom had benefits from, you know, we're not I'm not competing with TriCare in terms of benefits. So um so yeah, so getting getting those things in place and all the compliance pieces and things like that. So
23:39 Speaker 01 That's great.
23:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
23:40 Speaker 01 Is there a moment that sticks out in the past seven years is like, man, this was a big win, a big success? And and how do you also define success for yourself and also your employees? There's a lot of questions.
23:52 Speaker 00 That is a lot of questions. Um, yeah. So I don't know. In terms of a big big wins, um, that is tough. Um, so I think maybe this is a therapist answer, but um I needed to have um just objective measures of success because to me, success as a feeling, I
24:12 Speaker 00 it the way my mind works, I don't ever have that feeling because I see the next thing. And I think one of the things that has helped me is I'm not afraid of competition or you know, people doing things better than I am. I love that and I'm invigorated by it. Um, I think maybe it comes from um when I was I've grown up, I grew up around just really, really smart, successful people who I will never read. And so it's like someone says read a business book. I'm like going for like
24:39 Speaker 00 Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett. Like I'm not going for like the guy that's just ahead of me. I just see and I'm not I'm I just know I'm not gonna reach that. Um and so I don't ever feel successful because I just always see the next thing and um how much farther it could be, but I have peace in that. Um but in terms of actual success, that's where EOS, we have rocks, you know, we have our quarterly goals and we do we have been 80% successful in meeting our objectives. And so to me, I'm like, okay, even if I don't feel successful because I never will, I that is success as for our team. Um and that's another thing, giving giving the team that opportunity to feel successful because our field can feel very
25:19 Speaker 00 nebulous. I mean, they're really like we're not gonna cure anxiety, we're not gonna cure grief, we're not gonna cure um, and so it can be very hard to feel Like you've accomplished anything. And so trying to figure out ways to help the team feel like they've been successful.
25:35 Speaker 02 Accountability in that.
25:37 Speaker 00 Yes, exactly. Because it does feel good to heat like hit goals.
25:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, it does. And and the quarter, like the US model is so interesting, like the quarter is just long enough to where it's like you can actually make some impact.
25:51 Speaker 00 Yes.
25:51 Speaker 02 But it's just short enough to where you can obviously like make changes
25:55 Speaker 00 Exactly.
25:55 Speaker 02 as far as like you don't have to do this all year. You can
25:57 Speaker 00 Yep.
25:59 Speaker 02 just 'cause ninety days flows um
26:01 Speaker 00 Oh, it goes so fast. And that's that's the other thing that it shows you how quickly. Yes. You start seeing you're looking and you're going, Oh my gosh, it's almost the end of the quarter. Again, again.
26:11 Speaker 01 Yeah. Again.
26:13 Speaker 00 How did that happen?
26:13 Speaker 02 but have some objective or objective
26:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:16 Speaker 00 Yes,
26:16 Speaker 02 that's just so helpful.
26:17 Speaker 01 I'm curious too, just like I mean, the mental health space is just there's such a need right now, it feels like. Especially in everything that's happened over the past five, ten years. I mean, COVID and everything that went through COVID and post COVID and all that kind of stuff.
26:31 Speaker 02 Yeah.
26:32 Speaker 01 You just see it in in kids and in teens and young adults, and I mean heck, I'll talk to for for myself. It's really a lot of anxiety, a lot of stress, depression at times, things like that. So it's a lot, and your your employees, your therapists are hearing that constantly, constantly, constantly. So my question is, what are you doing to help your employees, your therapists? I mean, that must be, I would imagine, just such a weight
26:53 Speaker 00 it is.
26:54 Speaker 01 to be a therapist. So how are you how are you looking out for their mental health?
26:58 Speaker 00 Yeah. And that's hard because it's one of those things. That's an area where I feel like I can never do enough. I don't know. And one thing that I will say that is the best thing that we try to offer is just that flexibility because every person is different. And every time I've seen, like I'll have 10,000 ideas of, oh, we can offer this day, mental health day, we can do this, we can do that. But really how everybody
27:21 Speaker 00 Copes or what what would be a gift to one person is torture to somebody else. And so it's like even we were talking about, you know, what are you doing for your 10 years? Like, you know, a company party, some people would love that. Other people would be like, this is a Mando fun, is what they called it in the Marine Corps, you know, like not Mando fun. And so it's so hard to figure out, and you do surveys of what do people want. And so we use um we have June benefits as one of the things we offer, which is completely flexible to say, you know, first one person maybe it's going to the gym. If I offer a gym benefit, then is someone else gonna feel like a loser if they don't go want to go to the gym? It's like Megan doesn't mean you have to go to the gym, you know. Um so trying to just offer that flexibility as much as we can and keep work in its place so that they can find relief and peace um in whatever way makes sense to them.
28:15 Speaker 00 I'd say one of the hardest parts of it is um our field burnout is obviously a huge deal, um, but there's also nothing that generates revenue besides billable hours with clients. And so that's been kind of a nut I've just been trying to crack of we'll have people that obviously they need to make a certain living and we want them to make a certain living, but the only way that they can do that is to do counseling. And I don't and so trying to figure out if there's other kind of um creative ways that we can leverage the growth of the business to provide them um other opportunities, whether it's through supervision or doing trainings or um just trying to figure out how we can diversify the um income possibilities for them. Um it's been kind of a a tough one. But Christian knows, I mean, our full time um benefits eligible employees and I mean it's usually around 20 sessions a week.
29:06 Speaker 00 Um Uh which i is not a lot, but also it's hard to do a lot more. And then especially if you have, you know, people at home. It's and and I'm the the worst of it, I imagine will attest that there's been times where I've told him to book a session because I'm out of empathy. You know, like use it all up. Um so it is, it's tough.
29:27 Speaker 02 Yeah. Out of your sixty five employees, how many are not doing billable hours?
29:31 Speaker 00 Um, I would say we have, let's see, one um probably about 10 or so between admin staff and um so billing and then um client care coordinators are big, they're really important to our team. We um the therapeutic match is so critical. So that's I would say something we do differently. Um and we've actually had a tech gadget built, it's called the match gadget, to help our team um make those great matches because research shows that about 80% of um or more of the clinical effectiveness is the fit between the therapist and the
30:06 Speaker 02 Oh wow.
30:07 Speaker 00 um client. So making great matches is
30:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, innovation.
30:10 Speaker 00 innovation. I love it. Yes. So
30:13 Speaker 02 Question I have for you, and it's something I feel like so many CEOs, business owners struggle with. How do you approach the long-term, you know, planning, execution on the business task? Like here's our long-term vision with like the day-to-day. And it's probably a little different now that you have kind of a defined, I'm the visionary,
30:31 Speaker 00 yes.
30:32 Speaker 02 Kelsey's the integrator, right? But
30:33 Speaker 00 Yes.
30:34 Speaker 02 here's how you approach that.
30:35 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean it was not happening until I had a a Chelsea
30:38 Speaker 02 Business stuff.
30:39 Speaker 00 And so I kind of feel like I'm cheating because, you know, having a really, really strong leadership team, Chelsea and Lauren, just, I mean, that has freed me to actually even conceptualize the future, which I feel like I owe the employees to know a little bit about what are we doing. I think the other hard thing about it that I was not prepared for as a business owner is how enmeshed the long-term vision of a company, like how do you separate that from your personal life and your goals? Where as I feel like in if you're if you're not the owner, you know, you kind of it's your job, and that's very clear. But um so um so yeah, I think that's been just a kind of a challenge as well. Um but I think having that that clear differentiation of having someone to handle the day to day um it really helps.
31:27 Speaker 00 I know EOS talks about clarity breaks. I 100% stink at them. I do not do them, but I think that would be very helpful. Um so that would be another thing, would be to kind of set aside time on your calendar to actually do that.
31:41 Speaker 02 How do you separate the vision from the company and yourself then?
31:46 Speaker 00 It's really tough. Um, yeah, I think I'm really getting excited about having something that can outlast me and can live without me. And I had sort of a benefit in a weird way of because my husband was military in my mind, I knew from I thought there's a chance I could be moved at some point. And I want, and that was from the minute it started. So we started paperless, we started. I really don't want to be essential for the success of the business. And so um that I think has really helped um as well. And then I think um good financial planning, um, and that's um something that because it's it's tempting. I mean, to you reinvest a lot into the business, um, but You have to, you know.
32:29 Speaker 02 Fingers crossed the gross.
32:30 Speaker 00 Yes. Yeah, exactly. So
32:33 Speaker 02 What so you started eight years ago?
32:35 Speaker 00 yes.
32:35 Speaker 02 That was a different Megan back then,
32:37 Speaker 00 Yes.
32:37 Speaker 02 for sure. So what are one of my favorite questions to ask people is you know what you know today.
32:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:42 Speaker 02 But you can talk to yourself eight years ago and you can give 'em like let's just say two to three pieces of advice.
32:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:48 Speaker 02 Right? And but you only have like five minutes with them. Like what are you telling Megan eight years ago?
32:54 Speaker 00 I think I would have um if I if I actually knew what I know now, I
32:59 Speaker 02 I think you know everything you know today.
33:00 Speaker 00 I think I would have bet more on myself. Um I agree very, very conservatively. Um I think I would have uh purchased some of her um buildings um rather than entering into long leases. Um I so I think that would have been a bet more and um
33:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, that would have, I think, and also hired help sooner so that I could have grown more like earlier, I think in a more systematic way. Um, because to me I didn't mind grinding, but there are things that I'm not good at, um, namely organization and paying attention to details. And so had I hired someone who was good at organization and paying attention to details sooner, um, I think it would have been a lot easier to document systems and processes when there were fewer and things like that. So
33:48 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. Good stuff.
33:50 Speaker 01 That's a great question. If I can ask a little bit deeper on that, what what do you think kept you from? Um betting more on yourself.
33:57 Speaker 00 Um, I think just and and some of it was just the need at the time. I mean, my husband was back in school and we had three point five children, you know, working our way up. Um and so I think I was just being very, very conservative and rightly so, I think if with um finances and so
34:16 Speaker 02 Yeah.
34:16 Speaker 01 Totally.
34:17 Speaker 02 Yeah. It's a lot. It's tough.
34:19 Speaker 00 It's as we are very committed to you know not having our children, you know, we we're like, we'll eat rice and beans, but they're going to the school I want them to go to. So we did we did.
34:29 Speaker 02 They're gonna go to this
34:31 Speaker 00 They're going yes. So
34:32 Speaker 01 Yeah. That's great. Well, I think we got some fun questions. Yeah, we do.
34:36 Speaker 02 I want to ask one more business question, then let's go let's go to a couple fun ones. Leadership, obviously, is kind of what this podcast is about. You've cr recently created uh you know a leadership team and obviously EOS. And how do you create like people and and employees that own what they do and have leadership in what they do? How do you set those employees up for success?
35:01 Speaker 00 I mean, I I feel a little spoiled. I've just found the right people. Um, because the right people just innately have that.
35:11 Speaker 00 In them. Um, and I don't think that you can motivate into people. Like there's no amount of money, there's no amount of anything I think that will create just this innate sense of accountability and responsibility. And so um, so that was and honestly, they I feel like they have done it in spite of me. Um, I'm not the best at outlining my expectations. Um, and so that's something I'm working on. Clarity. Um, telling people what I want. Um, you know, I it's not not a natural thing for me to do. And so um, I think it would have helped them a lot if I'd been more clear and said, you know, this is what I need. Um, but they just were the pre people that have that that degree of um just.
35:56 Speaker 00 And so I think finding the right people is really key. And that and that is not just our leadership team. I would say that about across the board, you know, from our billers, even our amazing person who checks benefits in the Philippines. I mean, she just has a care about her job and doing it well that is not taught.
36:16 Speaker 02 Right.
36:16 Speaker 00 So
36:17 Speaker 02 That's awesome.
36:18 Speaker 00 yeah.
36:18 Speaker 01 Find the right people.
36:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
36:19 Speaker 00 Right people.
36:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's hard though.
36:21 Speaker 00 It is it is very hard. And you probably kiss a few frogs in the in the meantime. But um and and I guess trying to emulate what you want to see, so being clear about those values and
36:33 Speaker 02 Yeah. The core values of where you're where you're going. Exactly.
36:36 Speaker 01 That's great.
36:36 Speaker 02 A couple fun questions.
36:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, if if you weren't doing this, you weren't you know you know running a counseling center, doing all this, what what would you be doing, Megan?
36:46 Speaker 00 what would I w I mean I really wanted to be.
36:48 Speaker 02 And PTL.
36:48 Speaker 00 I really want yes, which I have done that as well. Um so I mean I I would probably be, yes, running a lot of volunteer organizations. I really would love to like I maybe I'd own a batting cage. I don't know. Um Yeah, I I thought so. But um yeah, or or maybe um by my that you know you have those moments where you're like this is my sweet spot, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. It was as a tour guide at W ⁇ l. So I think maybe I'd work in admissions at a college. Yes. I I love college tours with like an awkward passion.
37:23 Speaker 01 You've got the energy, the enthusiasm.
37:24 Speaker 00 I loved it. I mean walking backwards, point I mean, loved it. Loved it.
37:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, like talking to the parents.
37:30 Speaker 00 Yes. Oh, talking to parents, I mean I was it was it was great.
37:34 Speaker 02 I bet you convince some people to go to W.
37:36 Speaker 00 I I I mean I'd like to think so. And you know Maybe they'd like to give me a tuition review on my future children.
37:44 Speaker 01 There you go.
37:45 Speaker 02 I worked there for a while.
37:46 Speaker 00 You know?
37:46 Speaker 01 Exactly. I love that. Yeah.
37:48 Speaker 02 What is your big podcast person? What is like a favorite? It could be podcast or book or something that you've listened to or read in the last let's do a criteria in the in this year, 2025, that has kind of helped shape your leadership style or business or
38:07 Speaker 00 Oh gosh, there are so many good ones.
38:09 Speaker 02 besides Richmond Leadership Lab.
38:11 Speaker 00 I mean, it is a favorite. I'm not gonna lie. But um uh so definitely been into Chris Boss lately. Um so some of the negotiation
38:20 Speaker 02 Virginia County.
38:21 Speaker 00 was, and that was part of what made me want to join because I was like, I get to see him live in the flesh. That's so cool. Um exceeded at the Hoberman lab. So it's a lot of neuroscience kind of reached in there. Um Yeah, so that's a big one. And then all the um EOS, you know, traction, um I I read it over and over. Um good to great is another one that's been
38:43 Speaker 02 So when you're doing a US, are they just having you read the book every day? Just this right?
38:50 Speaker 00 that would be good though. So
38:52 Speaker 01 Amazing.
38:53 Speaker 02 Oh well, good stuff. Well, a couple final pieces um of the podcast. One of them is we just want to say thank you for being here. So we're gonna donate a hundred dollars on your behalf to your favorite nonprofit. And so if you could take a second, think about who you would like a nonprofit shout out to go to and also a small donation.
39:11 Speaker 00 All right. Well, this one's kind of fresh. So Ashley's Hope for Recovery is a brand new nonprofit, and I will actually be at the walk if anyone's in Williamsburg next week. But she is she was a um someone in recovery from an eating disorder who sadly um was killed in a freak accident while she was in recovery, and her family is created a foundation to give money to other families to support them in helping people in recovery. So that would
39:38 Speaker 02 You got it.
39:38 Speaker 00 be great. Thank you.
39:40 Speaker 02 Awesome.
39:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, and you're doing a walk next weekend?
39:42 Speaker 00 Yes, next weekend, so in Williamsburg. So
39:44 Speaker 01 That's great.
39:45 Speaker 00 come on.
39:45 Speaker 02 Raise some money.
39:46 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:46 Speaker 02 Yeah.
39:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. Megan, how can people connect with you or um or abundant life counseling and things like that? How can they get in touch with you?
39:53 Speaker 00 So um the website is the greatest way to get in touch, www.abundantlifepartners.com. Um you can see our match tool live in there. And um really the best way um if someone's in interested in inquiring, I always tell them is to just fill out a form on the website because that allows our our majing amazing matchmakers to go through and see the insurance and see the specialties, see who's available and um make great matches. So
40:18 Speaker 02 That's awesome.
40:19 Speaker 01 Love it.
40:20 Speaker 02 Yeah. I think one final question.
40:22 Speaker 00 yes.
40:22 Speaker 02 Is we this is the last question we we have for every guest on the show. And it's from the Virginia Council of CEOs. Scott gave us this question. Yep, which is timely. And the question is as a CEO, it can be lonely at the top. How do you deal with that struggle?
40:42 Speaker 00 So well join the Vision Council CEOs. Good job, Scott. Great question. So definitely having peers. And to me, help having peers in other not in our field has really helped. I would also say I don't always feel lonely. I think a great leadership team, but also just being real with your team. I am probably too tired to carry a persona. And so I just kind of am what I am, especially in Williamsburg. It's a small town. And so I see my people all over the place. And so I I kind of just let them in. And so I think that that really helps is not feeling this need to have this like veil and having a little more transparency with the team and letting them know what you're working on, what you're thinking about. Um because those were the hardest times when I was like really working and thinking about things that I felt like they had no idea um like what does Megan do all day?
41:36 Speaker 00 Um kind of yes. She just sits there. She just drives for field trips, which I do. But you know, that's that's all I'm doing.
41:47 Speaker 01 That's great.
41:48 Speaker 02 Oh, that's awesome. Well, we've really enjoyed it. Thank you for being on the show and making the trip. And
41:55 Speaker 00 It's always good to see you.
41:56 Speaker 02 yeah, absolutely. Anything else? Any last things?
41:59 Speaker 01 No, thank you, Megan. This has been great. Yeah. Appreciate all that you do and things like that. So especially the space that you're in, so thank you for that. Yeah.
42:06 Speaker 00 Thanks for your support.
42:07 Speaker 02 Have sorted
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