Mark Fonville, Covenant Wealth Advisors

Join us for episode 19 of the Richmond Leadership Lab. In this episode, co-hosts Christian Mosier (BenX Consulting) and Taylor Quinn (Filmspire and Richmond Podcast Studio) sit down with Mark Fonville, CEO of Covenant Wealth Advisors. From a $3,000 gift of stock as a kid to building a firm that manages over $1 billion for 550+ families, Mark shares the leadership lessons behind acquiring a company six times his size, building a team-first culture, and helping people retire with peace of mind. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in leadership, team building, entrepreneurship, financial planning, company culture, and creating meaningful community impact. Episode Highlights:Meet Mark Fonville: Richmond-raised and Virginia Tech–educated, Mark traces his path from picking stocks alongside his dad to leading Covenant Wealth Advisors alongside his wife, Catherine. A $3,000 Lesson in Humility: Mark grew a childhood trading account to nearly $100,000 during the tech boom — then lost almost everything in the crash. He explains why that early failure shaped his entire approach to finance. The Psychology of Money: Why trading lights up the same brain chemistry as gambling, and how Mark learned that building wealth is far more behavioral than mathematical. Betting It All on an Acquisition: How Mark and Catherine bought a firm six times their size in Williamsburg — dating the seller for a year, taking on the biggest debt of their lives, and retaining 97% of clients. A Three-Year Game Plan: The disciplined sequence that made the acquisition work — client retention in year one, a technology overhaul in year two, and growth and marketing in year three. Building a Team-First Culture: Why Mark tells clients his team comes first, why no one works weekends, and how listening to employees drives everything. Career Tracks That Retain Talent: How building clear, transparent career tracks — rare for a firm their size — gives team members a visible path forward and keeps them growing. Learning to Delegate: Mark opens up about his hardest daily battle: shifting from "how do I do this?" to "who should do this?" and freeing up white space to actually lead. Leading Direct but Professional: The leadership skills that don't come from books — being direct without losing warmth, and replacing dreaded annual reviews with honest quarterly conversations. Advice for Business Owners: Mark's practical playbook for CEOs — separating business accounts, automating cash reserves and distributions, and paying yourself first to remove financial stress from the business. Two Minutes with 2017 Mark: His answer to the show's signature question: "Stop fiddling." Have a plan, commit to it, and pursue it. Giving Back: Mark shines a light on the Children's Hospital of Richmond at VCU, where Catherine serves on the junior board — the nonprofit receiving this episode's gift. Don't forget to subscribe, like, and share! Tune in for more conversations on leadership, growth, and building impactful organizations in Richmond and beyond. Learn More About Covenant Wealth Advisors:https://www.covenantwealthadvisors.com/Connect with Mark Fonville:https://www.linkedin.com/in/markfonville/Richmond Leadership Lab is Produced and Co-Hosted by:Taylor Quinn, CEO – Filmspire & Richmond Podcast Studiohttps://www.filmspirevideo.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/taylor-quinn-filmspire/Christian Mosier, President – BenX Consultinghttps://benxconsulting.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-mosier/Learn More About Richmond Leadership Lab: https://www.richmondleadershiplab.comThis podcast was produced and recorded by Richmond Podcast Studio. Want to start a podcast without the tech hassle? Get your professional video podcast the same day you record. 👉 Learn more: https://www.richmondpodcaststudio.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Welcome to the Richmond Leadership Lab, featuring business and nonprofit leaders across Richmond, Virginia. Produced and hosted by Filmsfire and Ben Axe.

• 0:13Christian Mosier?

  Welcome to episode 19 of Richmond Leadership Lab Podcast. Taylor, how are you feeling today?

• 0:21Taylor Quinn?

  It's summertime. It's hot. Happy 250, America. I will say that.

• 0:27Christian Mosier?

  A few days later.

• 0:28Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah, a few days past July 4th that we're recording this, so, you know, 250. Though, our guest was just in Paris and that, there's just, you can't even compare.

• 0:39Christian Mosier?

  Speaking of France, I mean, I don't know if you've been following the World Cup,

• 0:45Taylor Quinn?

  From a distance.

• 0:46Christian Mosier?

  The US-based national team, I was just, I mean, my heart broke.

• 0:49Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 0:50Christian Mosier?

  I'm still not over it. It was two days ago, and by the time this podcast released, it'll be like three years from now, but it was just devastating.

• 0:58Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 0:58Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. I went to a game with my dad, right before the World Cup started, actually, in Charlotte against Senegal. So, the United States played Senegal, and me and dad went. And my dad's a huge soccer fan, so we had a great time, but

• 1:11Taylor Quinn?

  That's awesome.

• 1:11Christian Mosier?

  heartbreaking, nonetheless. Well, happy to be here.

• 1:14Taylor Quinn?

  Happy to be here. We've got a great guest.

• 1:16Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, I'm excited to introduce Mark Fonville. And Mark owns, or Mark's the CEO of Covenant Wealth Advisors. Mark, thank you so much for being on the show.

• 1:26Speaker 03

  Thank you, Christian. It's good to be here.

• 1:27Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, well, we're glad to have you, from office neighbors to on the podcast and

• 1:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right. That's right.

• 1:34Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, here we go.

• 1:35Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:36Christian Mosier?

  And so, you just got done a trip. You're in France. You feel relaxed, rejuvenated, recharged?

• 1:41Speaker 03

  You know, for all of the, I guess, ridicule the French get, for whatever reason, that is a phenomenal country. And we had a wonderful time. And it's clean, we felt safe. You know, the level of history is unbelievable.

• 1:59Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  And, you know, maybe one day we'll make it back.

• 2:02Christian Mosier?

  Mm-hmm. Got to visit the hometown of your ancestors.

• 2:06Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:08Taylor Quinn?

  That's amazing.

• 2:09Christian Mosier?

  Funny, what did you call it? What was the original last name?

• 2:12Speaker 03

  So, the original last name, I believe, was Fonville. So, we went to the town of Fonville, France. Can you imagine that?

• 2:19Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  I think we were the first guests they'd had in 100 years.

• 2:23Christian Mosier?

  Amazing. Small town, really small town.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  Small town.

• 2:26Taylor Quinn?

  They were just waiting for you.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:28Christian Mosier?

  You finally arrived.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  We finally arrived.

• 2:31Christian Mosier?

  It's like a time capsule, you know?

• 2:33Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:33Christian Mosier?

  They open up 300 years later. It's like, there he is.

• 2:37Taylor Quinn?

  Did your whole family go? All the kids?

• 2:39Speaker 03

  All five.

• 2:40Taylor Quinn?

  That's awesome.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  All five? You know, everyone soaked it in, and it was warm, but not excruciatingly hot like it is here in Richmond, right now.

• 2:50Christian Mosier?

  It's like 140 degrees.

• 2:52Speaker 03

  You know, you get towards the coast. We headed that way. It was a little breezy, awesome weather, perfect, you know, just strolling around the town, walking around, relaxing, just the way I like it.

• 3:04Christian Mosier?

  The way it should be. Well, we'll get into Covenant Wealth Advisors and some leadership lessons, all this stuff, but first, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about you? Where you grew up, where you went to college, what got you into the industry, all that stuff?

• 3:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure, Christian. So, grew up in Richmond, Virginia, was originally kind of on the eastern side of Goochland, and moved into the west end of town, and was here pretty much my whole life. I went to different schools throughout, collegiate schools. I went to what is now Quayacassin Middle, and

• 3:36Christian Mosier?

  Is that how you pronounce it? I've never understood how to pronounce it.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  It's Quayacassin, I believe. Yeah, I was Byrd Middle back in the day, and then graduated from Freeman High School, and went off to Virginia Tech to study finance and, you know, try to navigate where I was going to go for the rest of my life. So, was born and raised here, and then my wife Catherine is from a little town called Scottsville, Virginia, which is about 20 minutes south of Charlottesville.

• 4:06Christian Mosier?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:06Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, we met in college. She went to James Madison, and, you know, got graduated, and a few years later, got married, and here we are with three great kids, and, you know, trying to navigate life, just like you guys.

• 4:19Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. How'd you guys meet? Was it like at a college party? Was it, you said she went to a different college?

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, she was actually dating an extended friend of mine, and

• 4:31Christian Mosier?

  Nice.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you know, full disclosure is, they hung out for one summer, and then she and I kind of stayed connected, but probably, I don't know, six months, 12 months later, they had ended things a while back, and so, we connected, and she needed a date for her sorority formal, and

• 4:54Taylor Quinn?

  Amazing.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  You know, I think it was, she instant messaged me on AOL.

• 5:00Christian Mosier?

  Wow.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  Can you believe that?

• 5:02Christian Mosier?

  That's a good way to do it, right?

• 5:03Taylor Quinn?

  Wow.

• 5:03Christian Mosier?

  What a world.

• 5:04Taylor Quinn?

  Wow.

• 5:05Christian Mosier?

  What a world. And you said yes, and rest is history.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Of course, yeah.

• 5:09Taylor Quinn?

  So, college, you studied finance?

• 5:12Speaker 03

  I did.

• 5:12Taylor Quinn?

  Okay, what was the interest behind that?

• 5:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, if you go back when I was a kid, my dad was an industrial engineer, so, he worked for a plant here in Richmond, Virginia, worked hard. If you've ever been in an industrial plant, they're dangerous, they're hot, but he did that a very long time. But on the side, he liked trading stocks. And so, when I was about 10 years old, he gave me a book called Reminances of a Stock Operator, which is a crazy title, and probably not terribly appealing to a 10-year-old.

• 5:53Christian Mosier?

  For a 10-year-old.

• 5:54Taylor Quinn?

  Some light reading?

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, some light reading.

• 5:56Christian Mosier?

  For a fourth grader?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, a little odd. But I read it, and basically, it was this thinly disguised biography about an infamous trader named Jesse Livermore. So, if you really think about the Great Depression, Jesse Livermore was basically a speculator. And the book, the storyline goes from when he's a kid, all the way through kind of his life on Wall Street. And it was just very fascinating to me. And so, that got me really interested in this idea that, gosh, you could, you know, you earn some money, you can stash it away, and maybe do something with it later on. And so, you know, dad and I kind of created

• 6:39Speaker 03

  this neat bond and relationship on learning about the stock market, and then he'd given me a few thousand dollars to trade, and I remember just, you know, every morning during the weekday, running down the driveway, getting the Wall Street Journal first thing, reading it with them, and picking stocks. And that, like, I did that for, you know, pretty much through college.

• 7:02Taylor Quinn?

  Wow.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  So, that's kind of where it started.

• 7:05Christian Mosier?

  Did you make any money, or was it just?

• 7:07Speaker 03

  You know, that is another part of the story, but basically, you know, at $3,000, that's what he gave me. By the time I was in college, I'd built that up to around $80, $90,000, almost $100,000. Okay, so, I thought I knew everything.

• 7:28Christian Mosier?

  And you had the self-control in college to like not pull some of that out?

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Well, let me finish the story.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  Thanks for teeing that one up there, Christian. So, you know, this was the tech boom, all right? And so, the tech boom, you know, what stocks were going up in the 1990s?

• 7:47Christian Mosier?

  Tech.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  That, and like, all of them.

• 7:51Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  I mean, you would have to have the worst luck in the world to choose a stock that was going down, okay? But I didn't really realize that. I thought I actually knew what I was doing. And, you know, my account's going up. I remember sometimes I'd come back from class, and my account's up $10,000, you know, and you're thinking, college student, right? I didn't have a job at the time. And, well, trading is very addictive. There's a book called Your Money and Your Brain by Jason Zwieg. Jason Zwieg is a columnist for the Wall Street Journal, and he wrote this book. It's phenomenal. But what he talks

• 8:29Speaker 03

  about is the brain makeup for, if I remember correctly, it's three different classes of folks. It's compulsive gamblers.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  Cocaine addicts and traders.

• 8:50Christian Mosier?

  What a bunch.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Quite a bunch.

• 8:52Christian Mosier?

  You could do all three at once.

• 8:54Speaker 03

  You know, I mean, imagine and, and so they looked at the brain chemistry.

• 8:58Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 03

  And the dopamine for these three subsets of people. You can't distinguish them apart.

• 9:05Christian Mosier?

  That's amazing.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  Right? And so like the trading is very addictive. And so if, if you've ever traded stocks or you, you know, you watch CNBC, you know, the idea, the allure of just like buying and getting it out and whatnot. I mean, there, there's, there's a physiological.

• 9:19Christian Mosier?

  Hit, yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  Kind of idea behind that. And so, and I was definitely addicted to the trading. Well, you know, like with any addiction, the crash comes.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  And, you know, the, the crash for me luckily wasn't drug addiction, but it was the, the crap, the tech crash.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  You know, and, and in a matter of, of really months, I mean, I lost almost everything.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  And so that, that was a really pivotal time, you know, to first step back and, and just think that I had a lot more to learn. And, and I didn't, the, the, probably the biggest blessing was I didn't have a family at the time. So I lost it all, when it sounds like a lot of money, but it wasn't near what it could have been. You know, with kids and family and all that. And so I just looked at that and I just, you know, I kind of made a decision like, I really want to learn as much as I can so this never happens again. And that was kind of another pivotal moment, you know, to, it steered me, you know, in the direction of finance.

• 10:25Christian Mosier?

  When you graduated, I guess, did you get like a personal finance job or what was like that first, first job or two after college?

• 10:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it was, it was to be a financial advisor. You know, I worked, um, uh, at American Express at the time, now I'm at Air Prize. And, um, I got the job. I was there for about two years and I learned a ton. I mean, they, they put you through the, through the grinder. I mean, your cold, the cold calls were the worst. You know, can you imagine? Just like making.

• 10:55Christian Mosier?

  Fifty a day or whatever.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, fifty a day and like at night and, oh, man. But it really, it, it really gets you to think about, you know, the issues facing people, the questions to ask, you know, really find out like where are these pain points and where can you help? So that was critical. But, and they also did a good job on, um, what we call comprehensive financial planning. So it wasn't necessarily just, you know, just selling an investment product. It was, you know, creating a plan, implementing that plan with assorted, you know, investment options and insurances and things like that. So that's where it all started.

• 11:32Christian Mosier?

  Here, here in Richmond?

• 11:33Speaker 03

  Here in Richmond. Yeah. West Dairy Parkway.

• 11:37Christian Mosier?

  There you go.

• 11:37Taylor Quinn?

  That's amazing.

• 11:38Christian Mosier?

  All roads lead home.

• 11:39Taylor Quinn?

  All roads lead home.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:42Taylor Quinn?

  That's amazing. And then when did you, when did you get married and kind of what was your wife's kind of career and path and things like that?

• 11:50Speaker 03

  So, um, let me look at the inside of my wedding ring right now because I think she engraved it in there, but pretty sure we got married in 2004.

• 11:57Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  And, uh, uh, you know, she went to James Madison, she moved to Richmond. Uh, one of her first jobs, and, and this goes out to anybody, you know, is she got in, um, a part-time gig, um, a temp gig. I think at Bank of America and worked with one of the executives there to kind of just be an assistant, you know, out of college. Well, that was a great position to have because she met a lot of different people and it turned out, he helped her or served, served as a, um, reference for her to get into the bank. So she started, became a personal banker on that side and kind of, so we were a little bit, you know, on the same side of the.

• 12:40Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  Or within the same industry, you know, from the get-go.

• 12:43Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing.

• 12:46Christian Mosier?

  And then fast forward now, when you guys worked together.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, we worked together. I mean, you know, it's, um, it's been a great ride. I mean, I think, uh, a lot of folks who work with their spouses, you know, that it's, it's an interesting dynamic. It can work incredibly well or not well. For us, it's worked amazingly well. I think we know kind of what our responsibilities are. You know, across the company, you know, I, I know where I need her most and I just let her run with it and, and vice versa.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  But she's the reason we're here. I mean, she started the company.

• 13:18Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. I was gonna ask, cause she started in 2010.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 13:22Christian Mosier?

  Somewhere around there. So after, you know, a few years after you guys get married, a few years, I guess, both her really in the banking world, you in the finance world and she came, I guess she came up with the idea of Covenant Wealth Advisors or was it a different name at the time?

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. So a good, a great question. It was a different name and she started in 2010 and it was Fonville Wealth Management. And it was, it was that way until 2018. So for eight years, you know, she, she'd built it out. And interestingly, you know, she, she started it, our first born was in 2007. And then our second born was, um, 2009.

• 13:57Taylor Quinn?

  Wow.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  So it's like, ah, you know, you have a couple of kids, why not start a business too?

• 14:01Christian Mosier?

  Under three too.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:03Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, because starting a business is, uh, not hard enough.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  No, no, not at all.

• 14:08Taylor Quinn?

  Not at all.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  No.

• 14:09Taylor Quinn?

  And toddlers are easy, right? Yeah.

• 14:10Christian Mosier?

  And so what, how long was it just her? Did you join at the beginning too? Or walk me through that dynamic?

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure. So about that time, she and I both ended up at Wachovia Securities. She was working the financial planning team. Uh, so she was training the firms, you know, 15,000 brokers or so, kind of how to use financial planning and integrate that into their business. And so I was with the team. I, I, since American Express, I went to Wachovia, I was still in banking and I had, and maybe we'll hit this. It was a pivotal moment in my career to make a decision to continue with banking or go back on the security side, the investment side. So I ended up going over to Wachovia Securities and there's a team called National Sales. And that's amazing people. I'm friends with a lot of them today. It was a crazy time.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  But National Sales was all about like educating, uh, the, the firm's advisors on three critical areas. Like again, financial planning, um, this idea of like fee-based investment advisory, trying to move away from this commission culture that the industry was kind of built on. And then, uh, the third was kind of integrating like lending options with the clientele. And, um, and so when Danny Ludeman announced to Richmond that we were closing up shop, Wachovia Securities shutting down, moving to St. Louis, you know, Catherine and I were gonna move. I mean, we didn't really think otherwise.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  And it turns out there was a company out on the West Coast that ended up reaching out to me through, uh, through someone I knew, uh, a company called Loring Ward. And they're what's called a, like a third, uh, third-party asset management provider or what we call a TAMP. So they, they manage money for financial advisors. Okay? So I ended up meeting, um, fella Randy Hardy. He flew into Richmond. I took the job and the, the position was being a relationship manager for the southeastern US for all, all the financial advisors who work with the company

• 16:13Speaker 03

  in the southeast. That was an amazing, for the next 11 years, that's what I did. And so I learned so much, you know, about the underpinnings of finance, like what really drives markets, what really drives portfolio management, um, practice management for these advisors that we were working with. I mean, it was just a Petri dish for learning, you know? I mean, it was, it was, uh, it was wonderful. The leadership was incredible. I mean, what they did, they invested in their team. They invested in, um, you know, our, our evolution within the company and our career tracks. Uh, and they just hired really good people and they didn't stand for bad people. Like they wouldn't, they wouldn't put up with that.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  So that went on for 11 years and then, um, and then we came to another, another pivotal moment where we had a company, that came up, another investment advisory firm that came up for sale in Williamsburg, Virginia. And, uh, we saw it online and, um, and I'll kind of pause there, but, uh, that's when Catherine and I started taking a critical look at it. And thinking, maybe we should reach out.

• 17:19Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. Wow. And that, was that 2010 or was this after she started already?

• 17:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was after she started. So like she started in 2010. I worked with Loring Ward, um, from like, I want to say 2000, beginning of 2000, end of 2007, beginning of 2008, all the way to 2018.

• 17:38Christian Mosier?

  Okay.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  So in 2017 is when we saw this company go up for sale.

• 17:44Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  And, um,

• 17:48Speaker 03

  You know, it was very interesting because I told my boss at Loring Ward when I was being serious about it. And I said, hey, look, there's a chance I might be leaving the company. And what was great is I just felt that comfortable to tell him. And this was a year before.

• 18:05Taylor Quinn?

  Wow.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  And that, they helped me. They helped me. They gave me their blessings. They helped me in transition. It was a really incredible experience. I still have relationships with, you know, a lot of leadership that was there that the firm was bought and moved on to something else.

• 18:23Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  It's gonna happen.

• 18:25Taylor Quinn?

  That's amazing.

• 18:26Christian Mosier?

  So in 2017, you all saw this, you know, investment firm for sale. She was already running the practice, you know, for seven years, give or take. That, and that was the time where you joined as well, once you acquired the new firm?

• 18:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Because Catherine had reached out to this advisor who was selling this business in 2017. And we basically dated for a year, this advisor, you know, and getting to know his, his wonderful wife and the team. And just making sure it was a good fit. I mean, it's a substantial next chapter for him. And he wanted his legacy to be solidified. And it was a substantial monetary investment for us. And so we went a year, I think, I remember Rob, who sold, sold us the business, was talking to us. And I think 100 advisors reached out to him. Maybe 50 were qualified to buy it, 25 were serious. And then we ended up buying. And our company was like one-sixth the size. So we bought a company that was

• 19:22Speaker 03

  probably six times larger.

• 19:24Christian Mosier?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:27Christian Mosier?

  That's interesting. Walk me through that process.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:30Christian Mosier?

  So you bought a company that's obviously, you know, because how many employees did you all have at the time? Like on the?

• 19:35Speaker 03

  It was just Catherine.

• 19:36Christian Mosier?

  Just Catherine at the time?

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:38Christian Mosier?

  And this company probably had five, seven, nine employees?

• 19:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, so when I came on board, and then there were two employees that were retained.

• 19:48Christian Mosier?

  Okay.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  That Rob wanted to retain. Rob was exiting. So there were, there were basically three of them.

• 19:52Christian Mosier?

  Three, okay, gotcha.

• 19:53Taylor Quinn?

  Got it.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  And, and so, Rob Smith, and then Terry Miller, who still works on our team. She is an amazing contributor. We couldn't have done it without her. We couldn't have done it without Rob Smith. Rob Smith retired. You know, he's amazing individual, and I wish he was still here, but he's in the next chapter. And we still have a good relationship. But um, yeah, I mean, we, we looked at the deal. And, you know, the, the key thing is, does the cash flow work?

• 20:18Christian Mosier?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  And can we retain the clients? And so we hired a company that specializes in mergers and acquisitions for registered investment advisory firms, financial advisors. That's all they do. So I hired them as a consultant to come in and look at the books and the cash flow projections. And basically, have them tell me, like, what's the maximum price we should pay for this company? And once we knew that, then we need to figure out how to finance it.

• 20:48Christian Mosier?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  So we had to get a loan. It was huge. It was the most debt I've ever taken out.

• 20:53Taylor Quinn?

  What'd that feel like?

• 20:54Speaker 03

  Um, it was scary. It was scary. But I, we were, you know, the experience that I had at Loring Ward, you know, and, and basically just advising all these other firms on practice management, on investment management. I mean, I was ready, you know, and I had the confidence to go do it. But it was scary. I mean, you're, you're putting your, you know, your whole financial life on the line.

• 21:19Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  And um,

• 21:21Christian Mosier?

  All the eggs in one basket, if you will.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  Basically, everything, you know? You know, and uh,

• 21:26Christian Mosier?

  It's hope this works.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, we, I mean, and the thing is, we, we got the loan, we were approved, we did the transaction. And I think within 12 months, we lost one of our biggest clients.

• 21:38Taylor Quinn?

  Oh.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  And you know, you're thinking like, oh, my gosh. You know, we can't have much more of this. Well, long story, sure, we, our retention rate was something like 97% on clients. So it ended up really good. But, you know, at that beginning, retaining the clients, retaining your employees, you know, um, the, those two were critical. And we had a game plan. I can go through that. But, you know, here we are now.

• 22:04Christian Mosier?

  Wow. Well, we're a couple of things. Have you guys done another acquisition since then? Or is this the only one you've done?

• 22:09Speaker 03

  We've done some small ones.

• 22:11Christian Mosier?

  Okay.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  So we, um, when Scott Hurt joined our team, he's one of our lead advisors, phenomenal. You know, he had some clients that he worked with at his prior firm. And we ended up having to buy those from the other firm. That was really small.

• 22:26Christian Mosier?

  But not like another whole practice or anything like that?

• 22:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, the only thing that we did, we did, we merged our partner, we have two new partners who joined us January 1st, 2025. So that was just kind of a strategic move to add more partners. You know, in the event something happens to me, like I just, we want the continuity within the company.

• 22:42Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah. Give us, I don't think we've done this, but just give me the, like, the 10,000 foot view on Covenant Wealth Advisors and things like that. Your mission, who you are, who you serve, things like that. Yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our, our mission is to help individuals retire with peace of mind through clarity and sight in partnership. And, you know, today, we've, we've got in excess of 550 families that we serve here in Virginia, but also across the United States, you know, easily over 20 states. We manage just over a billion dollars in investments for our clients. You know, I think the, the biggest reason folks reach out to us, you know, it's, it's folks who are over the age of 50. They've got somewhere generally between a million to $10 million. Some certainly have more. Very few have less, unless it's the kids, the clients that we work with. But they're, they're just concerned about retirement. They're thinking like, do I have enough money? And then the funny thing is,

• 23:36Speaker 03

  like, they're asking, like, give me the confidence to spend my money.

• 23:41Christian Mosier?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  You know, because we spent our whole lives kind of saving and putting it away. And I think getting to the point of where you're reversing all the habits that you had your entire life to start enjoying is very difficult. It's one of the hardest things that we, we helped them face. And so it's these folks that reach out to us, and they really want that guidance. And so they'll, they'll come in. A lot of, a lot of times it's, all right, well, I want to plan. Well, they realize it's like, it's not just investments. Like, you got to fully integrate tax planning and investment planning and retirement income planning. And you, you have to integrate that and overlay it. And that's really the best plan. And like, what we found is just too many folks are, run those in silos. You

• 24:26Speaker 03

  know, and then they're, they're, you know, throwing more money at the IRS than they should be. You know, they may not be maximizing the income that, that they're entitled to to have a wonderful life in retirement. And, and really, that's what we're known for. And that, I think from the get-go, that's really what we focused on was, we wanted to really specialize in helping folks retire, because that's a, a critical time that's very different from someone who's in their twenties or thirties. You know, it's just different time of life, different strategies and different things to consider.

• 24:55Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point you make. I guess I've never really thought of it like that. A lot of, I would imagine what you all do is more psychological than it is finance, or finance-driven. I'd imagine there's a lot of obviously investments and tax planning and all that stuff. But it's, like you said, reversing their mindset a little bit of like, hey, you can, you can spend some money here.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I think the, you know, I think in the, in the beginning of the relationship, a lot of it's a bit more left-brained or the mathematical side, like finding out the numbers. It's like, can I do this? Like, do I have the capacity to? But as that trust kind of builds, right, it really is about the psychological side of, you know, that trust builds and is rooted. And then it's really just about, yeah, the more right-brain things. Like, there's nothing more better than telling someone, like, you need to go first class to Europe and stop sitting in the cheap seats. Like, just do it, right?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  I've never talked to anyone who's retired, who paid for that ticket, and said, gosh, I wish I didn't have that seat on the plane.

• 26:02Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  You know?

• 26:04Christian Mosier?

  Or experiences too. Man, I wish I didn't take that trip.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:08Christian Mosier?

  You know?

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 26:10Christian Mosier?

  Oh, that's a good point. And so you guys have been in business now for, I guess, 16 years, 15, 16 years in total.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:16Christian Mosier?

  And 15 employees, 17 employees today?

• 26:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I think, I think we're up to 14, 15 team members right now.

• 26:23Christian Mosier?

  Gotcha. Nice.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:26Christian Mosier?

  That's a, that's a big swing from 27 or 2018, I guess, when you officially bought the firm. Because it was just your wife at the time.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 26:34Christian Mosier?

  And then obviously now there's 14 or 15. I was curious on the acquisition side, and I think this will dive into growth a little bit more too. Obviously with, you know, taking on a risk and taking on some of that magnitude, what are, what's like one or two things that you all did right in that time? And one or two things with hindsight being 2020, you're like, hey, if we ever did a bigger acquisition again, we'd want to make sure to do X and Y.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I think, I think in the early days, what we did right was like,

• 27:04Speaker 03

  We created a game plan for implementation on the acquisition of the business. And, and we stuck to it. There's going to be distractions like every day, so it's easy to get thrown off. Ah, maybe I should do this and questioning yourself. But, I mean, the, the three critical areas we focused on, year one was client retention. Year two was technology overhaul. And year three was growth and marketing. And that's exactly what we did. And, and if you, and it took about that amount of time. You know, if you look at the trajectory of flows of business coming into the firm, it was fairly flat, like those first couple of years.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  And I mean, by design, that's kind of how it was, we structured it. And then, once we got everything in place, you know, obviously retaining employees too was critical. So that would go with retaining clients, right, in that first year. Once we got to the part of growing, it was, okay, let's build out our brand, like, what do we want to do when we grow up? Who are we? And really start educating our potential client base and our client base as much as possible about what we do, but what is possible for them. And so we dove in, you know, just into, into blogs.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  I think we were doing, I think we were doing, I think we started with one a week, and we've been doing it since. You know, writing, writing articles with SEO algorithms has really changed in the last six months.

• 28:44Christian Mosier?

  Totally.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  But we still do it. It's still critical to what we do. But also in terms of really honing in on like our target market and the folks that we're working with was critical. So those three things, I think, were, were paramount to the success. You know, looking back, things I would change, like, I think, I think I would have hired earlier someone to fully do our compliance. So we're in a highly regulated industry. And, you know, there's only so much profit margin to go around and, but you want to be compliant and do everything the right way. And so, when an audit comes through, you need to be ready for it. And so, when that, when the first auditor who came through, you know, I was doing it

• 29:30Speaker 03

  on my own, and that's really stressful time. You do everything, you know, you want to do everything right, but there's so many rules and regulations, it's, makes it, it makes it very difficult. And so I probably would have hired sooner. You know, since then, we've hired a whole team for compliance, and we've got that squared away, and we feel really good about it. But I think, like, in looking back, it's those types of things that like nag at you. You know, when it's like, you keep, something keeps on entering your mind, you know, you know you need to address it, you know, and...

• 30:01Christian Mosier?

  Just got to push it off a little bit.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like, just tackle those things, you know? Like, if they're, if they're lingering in my head longer than, you know, a few different times, it's like, okay, I need to knock this one out.

• 30:13Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 30:14Taylor Quinn?

  We'll be right back after this short message.

• 30:17Christian Mosier?

  Are employee benefits a headache for your company? At Ben X, we simplify benefits so you can focus on growing your business. From custom benefit solutions to cutting-edge technology, we make it easy for companies to take care of their teams. Visit benxconsulting.com to see how we can simplify benefits for your growing company.

• 30:38Taylor Quinn?

  Your story is powerful, but is it reaching the right audience? At Filmspire, we create compelling videos and provide marketing strategies to make sure they drive real results. From crafting your message to amplifying it, we help you connect with your audience like never before. Ready to inspire? Let's tell your story. And now, back to the show. Yeah. What was the process like for, you know, building a team? Because it's, you know, you and your wife, and now it's others, basically, and things like that? And then bringing on new staff? Like, how do you work to kind of build the culture at the firm and things like that? To make sure everyone feels cohesive? You guys get along, have a shared, you know, mission, vision, values, things like that?

• 31:21Taylor Quinn?

  What's that kind of culture piece look like for you guys?

• 31:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, culture is paramount.

• 31:27Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  And I always tell clients coming on board, you know, that, you know, clients are not number one in our, in our company and our model. Our team is. Clients come second. And it's so critical, because, you know, we've got amazing people, and we want to retain them. And keeping them motivated and focused on the future and their career tracks, which we built out, which I'll talk about, is everything. And if, if they're happy and they feel balanced in their lives between work and home and family, they're going to do a way better job for our clients. And the feedback I've gotten from clients is, like, they, they like that. Like, that's what they want. We have on our website that we don't work on weekends.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  You know, I don't want anyone on the team working on the weekend. Spend it with your family or friends. Like, that's what it's there for. So that's super critical. But we, we ended up hiring a consultant several years ago, within the industry. You can throw a lot of money away, you know, at consultants. They probably get the brunt of a lot of jokes. But, but the truth is, I mean, that was really helpful to give us guidance on, on the things we want to accomplish. One of those was making sure we were, we were tiring our firm values, which we've got, you know, it's integrity, it's, it's friends and family, it's, it's pursuing excellence, you know, in what you do, and it's several others.

• 32:56Speaker 03

  But tying that to actually how we hire and how we fire, it's building out career tracks for the team. I mean, we're, we might do eight million in revenue this year. And from my understanding, for a company of our size, almost never has career tracks built out. I mean, you can get to companies that have 20, 30, 50 million, they don't have career tracks built out. And I'll say, even, even the company I was with before, they didn't have career tracks built out. You know, it wasn't clear. So it was really important to us to, like, if someone's coming to our company, I want them to have an idea of where they can go. Doesn't mean they will go there.

• 33:39Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 03

  But at least they have transparency and, like, here's the career track, here's what it takes to get through each one of these levels. And as it turns out, that's what folks want. And, and that's, so many folks we've talked to, team members, you know, before they came on, was, I didn't know what the next step was. You know, I didn't, I don't know if, you know, if, if I can get to this part of the company. I don't, I don't know what I need to do to get there, you know? My, my bosses haven't talked to me about that, right, or the leadership. And so, that was critical. So we put career tracks in place for, for the entire company. Everyone knows what the career tracks are. If you want to be in operations, that's great. If you start in operations and you want to go over to advisory side and deal with clients, awesome.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  Like, here's what that takes, and here's what you need to do. So we're, you know, I think, just very open to listening to the team members. You know, it's like, right seat, right bus? Well, first, are they on the right bus? Are they with the right company? But then, it's like, they might come on in the right bus, but they're just in the wrong seat, and that's okay. We're fine with that. You know, I want to listen, listen to the team members and figure out where they are, and figure out what their strengths are, and really put them where they need to be. So that, you know, the, the culture, I think, it just comes back to listening to what they deserve and need, what the team needs. It's, I tell everyone who comes on board, it's like, I want, we want to hire people who can self-manage. It doesn't mean we won't give you guidance. It doesn't mean you can't come to us.

• 35:09Speaker 03

  But you need to have the, you need to be proactive. You need to be able to think of the next task, you know, anticipate, rather than sitting around waiting for it to happen. Like, that's the mentality we want. But, you know, I think, I think those values, I think the, the career tracks helps set it. I think the family, you know, those three are really quite critical to kind of building a great team that's happy.

• 35:37Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. It's amazing, too. We work with a ton of different companies and, and a lot of different industries at Ben X. And obviously, benefits ties into culture a lot of times. So we, we get a really cool view in a lot of different, you know, organizations. And it's amazing, the organizations that just listen to what their employees want.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:55Christian Mosier?

  And then do it.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 35:57Christian Mosier?

  It's amazing, their culture versus, you know, another company that maybe half-listens or maybe over-promises, right? And under-delivers, or maybe doesn't have a career track or growth track or next step, and people feel stagnant, right? It really is amazing. I mean, whether the company has seven employees or 70, right, or 150. It's just like, if you can just, it's similar on benefits, if you can just listen to what they want. Don't just design it from a 10,000-point view, but like, listen to what your actual employees and the people you want to hire want, and then design it from there. It's amazing the difference. It really is.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. It, it is. And you'll get such, you'll get so much, the ideas that will come from the team, if they feel comfortable sharing, you create this environment of them sharing. Like, that's really what, what we want, I think, at Covenant, right? And for them to feel empowered to kind of push back. I remember talking to the CEO of our old company, I was having a beer with him, and I asked him, what's, what's the hardest thing that you do, or hardest thing that you encounter? And he said, you know, it's finding people who'll tell me the truth.

• 37:11Speaker 03

  And, and so we really encourage, it's like, I, I, like, I'd love hearing things that need improvement in the company, you know, but come to me with an idea, not just a problem.

• 37:22Christian Mosier?

  Solution.

• 37:23Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 37:24Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, a couple of solutions to the problem.

• 37:26Taylor Quinn?

  That's amazing, yeah. What, what does, what's kind of like the, this year been like and things like that? You know, your, your goals for this year and what kind of like looking into, we're halfway through this year, what's kind of like next, next year looking like in terms of, for the firm?

• 37:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, yeah, good question, Taylor. I think we're, we're still trying to figure out, um, next year.

• 37:49Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  I mean, um, you know, we're, we're at a pivotal moment in the company because it's where hiring really accelerates. You know, you go from hiring a team member or two a year to now you might be hiring three or four or five team members. And so, right now, I think it's really critical to figure out, um, uh, who, who's on the teams, who's running them, what their roles and responsibilities are and what their gaps are. So, right now, we've got so much demand for, for our business, like, I never thought I'd have that problem. But, um, it's, what, what does that mean?

• 38:28Speaker 03

  Well, it means that, uh, we need advisors who are super competent from a planning perspective to meet with all the families that are reaching out to us. So, it's, it's, it's finding really qualified advisors and it's very difficult to do that.

• 38:43Christian Mosier?

  Hmm.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Um, it's amazing. So, if you're, if anyone who's listening, who's younger, go into the financial planning profession, get your certified financial planner designation, there's a huge demand for really smart people. Um, so, it's finding those folks. We just hired an amazing guy up in Boston. I've known him a long time, um, and so, we're, we're really happy to have Eric, so he's filling a void, but we just got so much coming in. So, I think it's that, it's getting operations just dialed in. So, we want redundancy in the company. And that's one thing that I've really started to focus on, is like, we need this redundancy so when, someone falls, you know, they, they're sick or they're out for, because they're having a baby or whatever reason it might be, we just need redundancy. So, it's figuring out what those redundancies are so we can hire for it.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  So, my focus is, you know, continue this growth, make sure those, uh, you know, families still want to reach out to us, but it's also make sure the wheels don't fall off. And so, we've got, um, you know, just an amazing servicing team in place. So, we will have three positions by the end of this week posted and, um, and it's making sure, you know, you just got those right people in place so we can continue that growth. I mean, a lot of people look from the outside, it's like, wow, like, covenant's growing so fast and, but they don't realize like how much it takes internally to make sure you're managing that growth prudently so you're, the, um, the existing clients aren't being sacrificed from a service perspective.

• 40:08Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, 'cause I, I'd see that sometimes when a company's growing, it's like, that's great, but sometimes their clients get left behind or systems get left behind or operations get, and growth is not just this like, it's a hundred percent perfect, it's all good, right? There's obviously drawbacks and things you have to figure out. One thing I wanted to ask you, obviously, we're talking about focus, 2017, 2018, you joined the firm, what was your day-to-day like and the focus like during that time? And how has it evolved over the last, you know, seven, eight years to today?

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, Christian, it very different, you know, in 2018, so, come on board, you know, Catherine had done an amazing job building up the infrastructure of the company, really. Um, and so, it was kind of all hands on deck. We got some help at home with the kids, you know, and it was really, um, quite frankly, it was very task oriented, you know, because we're all doing the heavy lifting.

• 41:01Christian Mosier?

  Hmm.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  Um, so, from, uh, trades to building out the financial plans, to meeting with the clients, you know, it, we had a vision and we had a strategy, but I mean, I'm getting sucked into, to all the tasks, not all of them, but a lot of them, right? Luckily, we had two other Rob and Terry who were amazing and picked that up. So, it was very task oriented. Now, um, my focus is, is freeing up my calendar so I have time to think. And I always wondered, like, you know, what, what are leaders do, like, what are they doing? What are they doing? And now, I understand, you know, because we've, we've, we have to think about our hiring, we have to think about our service standards, we have to think about, um, appropriate

• 41:47Speaker 03

  compensation, you know, we have to think about these things. And so, now, it's more getting white space on my calendar, being able to think through these critical areas, um, so our team can have an amazing experience, so our clients can have an amazing experience. Every time I think about doing something myself, I have to remind myself, who on the team can actually do this? And if we don't have somebody, who should we hire? Whereas, before, it was I would just tackle it and get it done on my own. And so, I think that's the critical, like, distinction between 2018 and, um, and 2026.

• 42:21Christian Mosier?

  How often do you still have to fight that?

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Every day.

• 42:23Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Every day. You know, delegation is not something that comes natural to me.

• 42:28Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  I like getting into the details of stuff.

• 42:31Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  But it's, um, it's prohibitive to growth.

• 42:35Christian Mosier?

  Hmm.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  You know? And so, I think the best leaders, I mean, look at Elon Musk. You know, you think about like, gosh, how is someone managing one company, well, how is he managing multiple companies, you know, because he's an amazing delegator, he, he, he finds the right people? Um, and there are a lot of books on the topic, but it's a constant, constant reminder, you know, who should be doing this, not how I should be doing.

• 42:57Christian Mosier?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 42:59Taylor Quinn?

  That's really good. What is your wife kind of, what's her role look like these days now? And kind of like, how, early on, was, what was that splitting like the workload and things like that in the early days? And what is she doing now?

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Well, so, Catherine still has, uh, families that she meets with. Uh, she is an advisor. She, uh, does a lot of her HR work, special projects for the company.

• 43:18Taylor Quinn?

  Yep.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Um, she's my, uh, chief psychologist, uh, when I come home and, you know, have things to, uh, you know, struggles of, of growing the company, she's really good as a sounding board, like phenomenal. Um, she's really good at, um, identifying, um, she's a great judge of character and people. Um, I always try to get her to meet with folks that we hire. Um, you know, she, uh, I tend to like everyone, there are few people I dislike, but she comes in and fills that void. Uh, and she's wonderful, but she can identify things like, here's why.

• 43:55Christian Mosier?

  Character and, yeah, yeah.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  So, today, you know, we've got three kids, so she's taken a little bit of a step back. I mean, she's not working 40 hours a week, um, you know, to help raise, uh, our, our kids so we don't, you know, end up with a family of wolves here, uh, wild wolves, but, uh, so far, so good.

• 44:11Taylor Quinn?

  It's an important job.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:13Taylor Quinn?

  That's awesome.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:15Christian Mosier?

  Are, is there like specific boundaries that you guys set? Cause we have some clients, for example, and friends that, uh, work with their spouses, right? And I know one of them does like, hey, we don't talk about work at dinner and, you know, maybe we don't talk about work on a Saturday or, is there anything you guys have figured out rhythm-wise, or maybe it's not structured, or maybe it's more of a rhythm, that you're like, hey, we do this or we don't do this?

• 44:33Speaker 03

  From a family perspective?

• 44:35Christian Mosier?

  Or just like work-life balance or, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  You know, some folks are really good at that.

• 44:40Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  I mean, I, uh, I, I, I really love what I do. And so, um, I work all the time, even when I'm not at work, I'm thinking about it, you know, I always have a thousand ideas. Um, but, you know, I think we, at the dinner table, we always try to sit down for dinner together as family.

• 45:04Christian Mosier?

  Hmm.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  You know, we always try to talk about what good happened in the day. Um, so, we'll go around the table, we'll, we'll have that conversation, um, you know, as much as we can. Um, I'll talk about work with the kids pretty frequently. I think it's, quite frankly, I think it's a gift. Um, I wish my dad, my dad was amazing father.

• 45:25Christian Mosier?

  Hmm.

• 45:26Speaker 03

  In so many ways. I wish he'd talked to me more about what he did when he was running the plant.

• 45:31Christian Mosier?

  Hmm.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  I wish he'd talked to me about the challenges he encountered, how he managed situations. You know, that would have been critical and helpful.

• 45:41Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  And so, I think it's really, you know, have all this experience and exposure to different things that I can teach my kids. And I think we, um, I like to think they, they enjoy those conversations, you know, I, I'll bring the kids, um, before school to Starbucks in the morning on Fridays, uh, we'll probably do every other Friday and sometimes those topics come up, sometimes it's boyfriends, sometimes it's, you know, whatever.

• 46:04Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 46:05Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 46:06Taylor Quinn?

  Have you been able to pass down that financial knowledge like your dad did for you, basically? Like, what's that, what does conversations about finance look like in your household?

• 46:13Christian Mosier?

  Are they up to a hundred K in the trading account?

• 46:15Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 46:17Speaker 03

  You know, um, my, uh, my kids are a lot smarter than I was and, uh, they're very, they're very well diversified, so, all three have investment accounts.

• 46:27Taylor Quinn?

  Yep, cool.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  My oldest, uh, actually, today, I'm supposed to call her right after this, um, to, she had a custodian account, which is account you have when you're under the age of 18. We're gonna open up her brokerage account, move the investments over. She's fully diversified, invest in index funds, she, she's already ahead of the game there. But, um, yeah, I talk to them about that, I show them the power of compounding, what it means. I had a conversation with my 10-year-old, uh, a couple of weeks ago about, um, probably the most important concept, I think, in, in building wealth, which is, um, this idea of, uh, pay yourself first. You know, and I mean, we live in a consumption society in America and it's always, um, everyone pays everyone else first. Like, you get paid and the first thing you do is you go, spend it.

• 47:12Christian Mosier?

  Pay bills or pay, yeah, whatever.

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, like bills or whatever. It's like, like, pay yourself first. Squirrel that money away so you don't even see it. And so, we had that conversation in it. I mean, it seemed to resonate, you know? I mean, he's like, I get it!

• 47:26Christian Mosier?

  Ten, ten seems to be a big age in the Fonville household.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  It's a big age.

• 47:29Christian Mosier?

  Once you hit 10, that's kind of like...

• 47:32Speaker 03

  That's when the game on, you know?

• 47:34Christian Mosier?

  Sit down, son.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right.

• 47:36Taylor Quinn?

  You're about to be on your own.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  You're finding some, uh, consistencies here.

• 47:39Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. That's amazing. What, what are a couple of things, um, obviously, leadership podcasts, what are, just being a leader, right? Obviously, last eight years in particular, and now, being a leader of, you know, multiple people. Um, what are a couple of things you've learned over the last few years that, you know, maybe books don't tell you, or maybe podcasts don't tell you, like, the day-to-day, what are a couple of things, you know, leading people that you've learned? Like, I heard a great quote the other day, um, one of the reasons I'm asking this is John Maxwell said, no, or, no leader has two good days in a row.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:13Christian Mosier?

  And I was like, that's an interesting quote.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  That is interesting, yeah.

• 48:15Christian Mosier?

  I think he just says that to kind of reset some expectations sometimes.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:21Christian Mosier?

  Like, leadership's kind of a pie in the sky, I think, but, anyway, I'm curious to hear.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  That's a fair statement, for sure.

• 48:25Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 48:26Speaker 03

  I mean, I thi, I, I think one is, um, learning how to be direct. But professional. And my wife was, I think, is really good at that. I've had conversations with her about that, you know, and I'm kind of a, I think, any good advisor is a pleaser. You want to help people. And so you want to start the company. I mean, that's kind of who I am by nature. And so, you know, you don't, that type of personality, you want to really keep balance. And so it was kind of hard for me to be really direct on instruction and here's what needs to happen. But I think it's so critical and it's so helpful to the team

• 49:10Speaker 03

  members because they know what you're actually asking them, you know?

• 49:13Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, just get it done.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:17Christian Mosier?

  Just do a good job here.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, do the best you can.

• 49:20Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  And, and, you know, I've certainly been guilty of that. So I think, I think that's critical. The second would be delegation, but not just for me, but for any member of the team. You know, if it's not your expertise in the company, find someone who can can do it. Don't feel like you have to take everything on. I think meeting with folks regular, on a regular basis is really helpful, you know, that we've probably been, many of us have been in the companies where it's like, the annual review in January is coming up and you're thinking, oh, my. First of all, the managers don't want to do it.

• 49:56Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 49:57Speaker 03

  None of them do. And neither do the employees. You know, everyone is just like, you know, just on edge.

• 50:05Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  You don't want to go in there. And so I think what we've learned is just have regular conversations with the team throughout the year. We try to do it quarterly, call them quarterly conversations and just sitting down with them. It might, you know, might take them to lunch, might hop on Zoom. And it's just really, hey, what, how are things going? What's working? What's not working? What do you want to accomplish this quarter? How can I help you? What can the company do for you? You know, so I think those conversations are critical. Waiting too long, things start to, you can start to create ideas in your mind that aren't reality.

• 50:39Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. And a year's a long time, especially in a small company. A lot of things change in a year.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:45Christian Mosier?

  We do quarterly alignment meetings.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  You do? Okay.

• 50:47Christian Mosier?

  And so it's been, we just opened them six months ago, I think, maybe not even. But I forgot where I even got the idea, or maybe a friend of mine or something. But it's not performance reviews and it's nothing like that. It's literally just like, here's kind of our Ben X way, right? The Ben X standard.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 51:04Christian Mosier?

  Here's the alignment. But also like hearing from them, like what's working well in that quarter, what's not working well in that quarter, you know, kind of sounds like some of your conversations.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:12Christian Mosier?

  But that's really helpful.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  And when did that start?

• 51:14Christian Mosier?

  Like six months ago.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's great.

• 51:17Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. Just get everyone on the same page and making sure, I feel like, you know, creating an environment where hopefully they feel comfortable enough to, you know, to say what they want to say.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  Well, that's right. And I mean, you think of it like a, like a, you know, in, in marriage, you hit really good times and bad times. You don't wait till the end of the year to have that big discussion.

• 51:36Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 51:37Taylor Quinn?

  Let it all build up.

• 51:38Christian Mosier?

  All right, it's December.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. Let's go to the, through the personal finances.

• 51:43Christian Mosier?

  Let's go to Charlottesville and talk about it.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 51:46Taylor Quinn?

  Exactly.

• 51:47Christian Mosier?

  Golly, that's amazing.

• 51:51Taylor Quinn?

  Man, this has been great.

• 51:52Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. How, just kind of random question. How often do you and your wife discuss finances? Since you run, I mean, you run a finance company.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh, Christian, you had to ask.

• 52:02Christian Mosier?

  Once every other year.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  You know, we, I'm, I'm big picture. And so, and Catherine's the day to day. So she handles, you know, the checking account, credit card, and then I handle more of the big plan and the savings side. So it's, it's usually when we're, we just went on a nice vacation, you're like, wait a second, wait a second, we can't do that anymore. We got to back up. But probably like any family, you know, but we do a financial plan. We update our financial plan at least twice a year. We recommend, you know, our clients do that. It's super helpful. It gets us on the same page. We both agree with it, you know, so it gives us more of our, like, here are the things we want to accomplish, what

• 52:49Speaker 03

  timeframe, how much do we be putting, should we be putting away, you know, right now, big one's coming up, or, you know, oldest is going off to college. So, you know, thinking through those things. So I think the big conversations at least twice a year, but certainly there's always the, the, you know, you go through those months of big expenditures you don't think, so.

• 53:06Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I have, I have two final questions. And Taylor, if you want to wrap up with anything, and then we get to some fun stuff, too.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 53:15Christian Mosier?

  Food and, you know, restaurants and all that fun stuff. One is a leadership or kind of personal question, one's just a finance question. So since we're talking about finance, we'll do that and then we'll end with kind of a leadership question. But there's, you know, this show is catered towards, you know, business owners, entrepreneurs, CEOs, you know, a lot of that demographic that listens to the show. In, in terms of free advice, right? In terms of a lot of executives and business owners watching this show, what, because you deal with it, you know, every day, as far as like leading these people financially, right, in a plan. What are, maybe one or two things, quick things that maybe they should watch out for, or look for, or not do, you can kind of take any, any direction you want. But a couple pieces of advice you would tell other CEOs, business owners, entrepreneurs, listen to the show?

• 54:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I think as a business owner, a lot of times, we think the company is our bank account. And, and so, you know, getting a handle on the, the structure of the accounts and the cash flows behind the scenes is really critical. So depending upon the size of business, you know, if you're over 10 employees, you're likely paying yourself a salary. But you might be taking distributions from the company. Well, those distributions, are those part of what you need? Are you just tapping those distributions whenever you need it for your family? I'd say try to, try to, to change that and start making things

• 54:42Speaker 03

  automatic. So at Covenant, what we do, we have an account for different things within the company. So we have our operating account. We have our cash reserves account, right? We have our partner distributions account. So we have these different accounts. As soon as billings come in, revenue, we divvy out the money across the different accounts. So then we know it's accounted for. You know, at, at least, at least with us, it's four months of expenses built up in the cash reserve account, right? So it's like, how much cash do I need on hand? Well, we completely remove that from the operating account. So then, then once you're at that target for the reserves account, you don't have to be, you know, you don't have to wonder, you know, do I have enough on hand? You know, anything above

• 55:25Speaker 03

  and beyond that, you can go ahead and distribute to the owners.

• 55:28Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  Right? And so then from there, it's, well, well, you know, make it automatic. So we do have it automatic. Every month, we have distributions going out. We have, every month, we have money going into the cash reserve. As your revenues grow, that cash reserve needs to continue to grow. So you need to make sure you're accounting for that. So I think dividing up the accounts that you have is super important. It makes it much more organized. The second thing is then figuring out how much money, make it automatic transferring into your personal side. And then how are you allocating that? So make a decision beforehand. So remember I said, pay yourself first. Like allocate that outside of your 401k to other things to the extent cash flow will, will allow, right?

• 56:10Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  And so it may be building up your own personal cash reserve outside of the business. It might be you have a pot for your travel and vacations. It may be a pot for just taxable brokerage account, which is taxed differently than your 401k account, right? And so I think if you can, you set that structure up, you automate it. The instant you have to start thinking about those things, you're already behind. Because your behavior is going to come into play, you know, it's going to work against you. And so that's a lot of, a lot of the business owners we work with, it's just getting that structure in place. And then from there, it's kind of building out more long-term projections. Hey, how much can I, how much would I need to sell the company for? X, well, what does that mean?

• 56:53Speaker 03

  I need X dollars of revenues, right? Well, what's the multiple on that revenue to sell it for the, the price that I need? And do you want to retire at 50 or 55 or, or 60 or 65? You know, so those are, that's kind of the sequence of events that, that I would recommend. I think that's, you know, critical to, to having balance in your life, not having to worry too much about the finances and allow you to focus more on what's critical to the business, which is just growing it.

• 57:20Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, it's a great answer.

• 57:21Taylor Quinn?

  It's great.

• 57:22Christian Mosier?

  It's great. So last question we like to ask our guests when we get into some fun stuff is, it's probably my favorite question to ask, too. If you were in the same room as Mark Fonville from 2017, right?

• 57:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:35Christian Mosier?

  And you only got two minutes with him, right? Not the whole day, you can't take him to lunch.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:40Christian Mosier?

  You only have two minutes with 2017 Mark. What, what are you telling, hindsight being 2020, with what you know today, what are you telling 2017 Mark?

• 57:51Speaker 03

  Stop fiddling.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  I've got a thousand ideas that cross my mind every day, Christian. And, and I'll, and every, every one of them can seem, you know, important and, and urgent, but, but they're not. So, stick, figure out a plan, stick with the plan, and then just pursue it. And when I look back, that's, that's what has helped us grow. You know, Scott Hurt on our team told me one time, I asked him for his feedback. Scott will give you good feedback like that. And I don't know if he used the word fiddling, but it's pretty much like that. Tinkering, I think he said, quit tinkering.

• 58:31Taylor Quinn?

  Tinkering, yeah.

• 58:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:32Christian Mosier?

  Have a plan, come into it. And you're gonna love the trip in eight years to France.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right.

• 58:39Taylor Quinn?

  I love that.

• 58:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 58:41Taylor Quinn?

  Mark, one thing we do on the show is every guest we have come on, we like to ask, is there a particular nonprofit that they feel connected to or want to give a shout out to? Because part of our show, we give a small gift to that nonprofit of your choice. So as a gift back and as a thank you for being on the show. So, the question is, Mark, is there a certain nonprofit that you'd like to recognize that we can make a small contribution to?

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah, absolutely, Taylor. So, my, my wife Catherine is on the junior board for the Children's Hospital at VCU. She's done that for a number of years. It is a phenomenal organization. They serve, I think, about 80,000 patients per year.

• 59:26Taylor Quinn?

  Wow.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  They do an incredible job. And the facility down there, you know, is top tier. It's new, it's fresh, the staff there, the things they do for these kids who just, and just, just very unfortunate situations, is pretty incredible. And so, it's a wonderful organization. It's here in Richmond. You know, they can use funds, they allocate the funds prudently. And we'll continue to support that organization, I think, for the foreseeable future, so.

• 59:59Christian Mosier?

  Heck, yeah. That's awesome.

• 1:00:01Taylor Quinn?

  That's awesome.

• 1:00:02Christian Mosier?

  To wrap up, a couple of fun questions. If you weren't doing finance, what would you be doing? You can't do anything in the finance profession. What would you be doing, you think?

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  Oh, I would, well, like, for a living?

• 1:00:18Christian Mosier?

  For a living.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  I'd have to earn money doing it?

• 1:00:19Christian Mosier?

  You'd have to earn money doing it. Don't have to earn a lot of money, but you know, you earn an income doing it.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Probably marketing.

• 1:00:27Christian Mosier?

  Cool. Okay.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  I think helping other business owners market their business. And, you know, would it, would it be, would it be in finance? I don't know. If I can't do finance, I could probably find another profession. I think marketing is very interesting. I think the more I learn about our clientele and what their needs are and what their desires are, and then how to fulfill, you know, those needs, you know, it's all tied into marketing. I think it's a, I think it's a fun area. So maybe in another life.

• 1:00:54Christian Mosier?

  Yeah. It's kind of like the psychological aspect of finance is similar to the marketing side, right? Trying to understand.

• 1:01:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:01:00Christian Mosier?

  People and their behaviors.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:02Christian Mosier?

  So maybe you'd be in, you know, psychology or something.

• 1:01:05Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  I, I don't know that they'd walk out any better, quite frankly, but, you know.

• 1:01:11Christian Mosier?

  You could do it on a group of people, you know, doesn't have to be a person. Any specific restaurants that you'd love in Richmond? Like that you'll go on date night to, or one or two restaurants that you're a big fan of?

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, Buckhead's is awesome.

• 1:01:27Christian Mosier?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  It's pretty, it's close by, it's been there forever, you know. It's rare that you'll find a really good restaurant, and the type of building they've got there. But, you know, you go, go in there, the food's amazing, the bartenders are amazing, it's just a, it's a wonderful spot. So, we'll do date nights there. Conejo is amazing. You know, they've, they've got wonderful cocktails, the food there is incredible. We go there all the time as a family, bring the kids there. So, those are two good ones.

• 1:02:02Christian Mosier?

  What's your favorite? What do you like?

• 1:02:04Taylor Quinn?

  I mean, that's a good question. Like, we, because we live very close to Conejo as well. So, like, we frequently will kind of hit that up. That's just like an easy choice near us and things like that. So, we, yeah, we're kind of on that same train. Anything Mexican, we like to try and do, it seems. Yeah, we like a lot.

• 1:02:21Christian Mosier?

  Pinkies was good.

• 1:02:22Taylor Quinn?

  Pinkies, yes, for me, especially with all my gluten allergies and things like that. Pinkies is great in terms of that, too.

• 1:02:28Speaker 03

  I haven't been to Pinkies.

• 1:02:29Christian Mosier?

  It's in Scott's Edition. I think they opened during COVID.

• 1:02:32Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah, it's where the old Urban Farmhouse used to be in Scott's Edition, if you remember. So, they, yeah, they, I feel like, yeah, they've been around for maybe four years, yeah, maybe four, four years, I'd say, at this point?

• 1:02:44Christian Mosier?

  Yeah, I think 2021, maybe, give or take.

• 1:02:46Taylor Quinn?

  Five kids, it's before I had kids. So, my oldest is four, so yeah, probably around there. Yeah. It's a good spot. What do you, Mark, what, what is something you and the family like to do just in, in Richmond, free time? What does that look like?

• 1:02:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure. I mean, we're, be on the water. You know, we can get to the Northern Neck. Just something about getting there, there is zero stress. It all goes away when you're in the middle of nowhere.

• 1:03:07Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 03

  And so, we like, we, that's our favorite. I think if you asked everyone in the family, they would say the same.

• 1:03:13Christian Mosier?

  Northern Neck?

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Northern Neck of Virginia.

• 1:03:15Christian Mosier?

  Nice.

• 1:03:15Speaker 03

  Lancaster County.

• 1:03:16Christian Mosier?

  There you go.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:17Christian Mosier?

  That's, that's, what, hour and a half from here?

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, depending upon which way you go. For us, it's an hour 45.

• 1:03:22Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah, being on the water. That's great.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Taylor Quinn?

  Awesome. Mark, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Greatly appreciate it. Lots of great leadership insights, so greatly appreciate it.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Thanks, Taylor.

• 1:03:32Taylor Quinn?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  Thanks, Christian. Nice to meet you.